As a 10 year vet of EVE, one of the main lessons I've learned about New Eden is that the moment you think you're good at the game, the moment you think you have it all figured out, is the precise moment that the game will dumpster you. Be humble at all times and fly dangerous. o7
Live by the sword, die by the sword. The greater the risk, the greater the losses. If that is fun for you then you are in the right place. If not, then you need to figure out how to play safely. It's not rocket science, though in a way it is here. Don't be an easy target, learn about the scams, stay away from suspects. Some people learn, some just choose a different path.
I am in 100% agreement with you, for the market to remain healthy you must have entropy, something has to balance out the creation with destruction. On the slippery slope argument while that is considered a logical fallacy when you have a demonstrable history of the thing happening, fallacy or not it doesn't change that you are correct.
highsec is pretty safe, if you not want to get into trouble, don;t hang in Jita! or other hight traffic places, just like IRL, if you want to be in peace, don't live downtown. i don;t really know what the fuzz is about.. also CCP made it a bannable offence attacking/ganking newbies in those school systems, so this is already in place for the reasons stated. eveyone is so horny about going to Jita every 6 minutes, what about instead support the locality you live in, everything i produce i sell locally. supporting the area i live in. just like IRL ... if i shoot someone thats 2 days old, i immideatly talk to them and give them a new ship (in fact i have ready fit ships in a station just for this porpose alone) but in my experience, those are NOT the people makeing the drama, the ones do make the drama about "highsec should be safe" are the ones that play the game for years, but refusing to interact with the envioment.
Maybe there should be a high tax for using a trade hub that isn't your own empires' hub. I'm pretty sure there are additional costs for me, and American, to go over to France and start selling things.
Have finally taken the plunge at 40 years of age and bought a gaming laptop. Will be finally be able to play eve online and after the junk that was eve mobile am looking forward to join the community
My only complaint with the hisec gank situation is the gate campers.... I use gate check, but it has let me down more than once. I dont think any one would disagree that being targeted and basically one shot the very second you decloak off the gate sucks. The way hisec currently works, even when I fly with escorts, you cannot defend yourself from gankers. Im not saying change the hisec mechanics per se, but maybe make the gates in 1.0 systems a tad bit safer. Catch me between gates....make it more of cat and mouse. Not "you checked the gate, flew a scout ahead, brought an escort. Still get your freighter locked and popped immediately after decloaking in a 1.0 system." And I really do mean the moment you click jump. Seriously, how?
Wrecks from ships being shot illegally (criminal flag/Concorded) should only be lootable by the victim in high-sec, there I fixed it. To me that would remedy the only thing I think is broken in the game.
There are players in Eve who do as you suggest. Right after I started playing, I was in a place I arguably should not have been for my skill level. Another player landed on grid and "ganked" me before I realized what was happening. He immediately initiated a conversation with me, explained to me how he was able to easily hunt me down, offered suggestions on what I could do to help prevent it from happening again, suggested I join the Eve University corporation, and paid to replace my ship. I will never forget his kindness. Needless to say, I didn't quit the game.
The argument is silly and moot. The bottom line is, you are never completely safe in Eve, except maybe while docked in a NPC station and even then, you may be subject to some type of scam to get your ISK. That’s the fun and thrill of it. If your fun is griefing newbies in starter areas, you’re a dick. Pick on someone your own size who can fight back.
@@eduard2113 no, it doesn't. Ganking is a term that exists outside of the context of EVE. Ganking simply means "surprise PvP" - you're busy doing something else and then someone suddenly attacks.
One thought I had was it would be nice if ganking on a Hi-Sec gate by players is not allowed but perhaps NPCs can - changes the dynamic a little bit but does not go to the lengths of Eve Echoes.
Maybe even have NPCs randomly attack stations. That way people could experience combat in a sort-of realistic way. Imagine if randomly some small fleet of NPCs would attack a trade hub and CONCORD ships. You usually wouldn't get targeted unless you fired on the rats.
It would add some random events to the gameplay but would it really do anything. With the amount of combat ships passing through everywhere those gate rats wouldent be alive more then 1 min at most depending on there strenght ofc. It wouldent make mutch sense becouse all H-sec gates has gate guns and NPC ships protecting the gates. Are those just suppose to ignore pirate rats attacking ships or do they disappear. In a way the game already have this system and i learned that the hard way with the Triglavians. I lost a Dominix doing missions jumping in and out of 1 Triglavian controlled system thinking that Neutral standing was enough for them not to attack me. I was very wrong.
@@ryelor123 There are some pirate incursions that have been happening for a while where a pirate faction places a structure (or two or three) at a safe spot and fleets of miners go mine and roaming bands do attack player structures with varying degrees of effort. Not the current new "system is a pirate affected" thing but a part of the PvE setup. If a player warps into a belt their mining fleet will warp away and their defense fleet will aggressively go after players in the belts while roaming small gangs will engage players and call in reinforcements elsewhere in the system. Some of these npcs will point your ship to prevent escape etc and have a much better AI than old style belt rats.. This goes on in the affected system until their structures are scanned down and destroyed. Like the Trig invasion a lot of afk mining ships went boom when this was initially introduced. Also Trigs still do this in some Trig affected systems where the wormholes to Trig space spawn if I recall correctly.
I lead a corp in game! My WHOLE THING is helping people learn the game (Hell i'm learning too - we all are - I use benzies videos to show the people things all the time, very good information all the time!!) If you want a home let me know - Rhed XIII :) I just want everyone to be happy and have fun in eve - if they find their fun then they will stay longer and thrive!
Yeah gankers are the most affected by risk versus reward. The game is very unbalanced against them. Catalysts are too expensive, Right? They cost too much... We should make catalysts cheaper and camping gates easier, it's already a very active complex PVP now, very hard. Even harder than killing the targets is sending e-mails or typing in local when you alpha someone. The problem I see here is that too many NS veterans like to gank so they justify their bad game mechanics to keep being on the "elite player" group. And putting down valid arguments agaist it as weak whiny players. (I have more detailed explanation on why I dislike ganking on the other video.) Alright now that I have made any statements against ganking, just type: "lol, link the killboard"
I'm neither a Nullsec veteran nor a pvper. I just understand how this game works. Instead of crying "boohoo, a bunch of idiots in cheap ships beat my ass, the game must be at fault" why not ask yourself why you died to a bunch of idiots? I've been playing EVE since 2012. I'm a PvE player, but I enjoy huffing, abyssals, hauling... I've never once lost a ship to a Catalyst, let alone a fleet of them. In fact, it's rare that I lose ships - to the point that (as I've talked about before) I often take my Prowler or Mastodon out on long trips, laden with expensive stuff, just to act as a loot piñata if someone can actually catch me. Instead of crying that the game (that has lasted for twenty one years) is broken, maybe ask yourself what you could do better to survive?
@@captainbenzie man you really are just the unicorn of players arnt you? we been playing the same amount of time and experiences are very different and im a PvE player PUSHED into PvP as a means to survive because i didnt have the skills to deal with the war decs or the gankers i just wanted to mine cool space rock that made me a piddly sad amount of isk so i could go from a bantam to a osprey. then some month down the road, i could have a mining barge for the low low cost of 35mil just for the hull. but then i was a target! so then later i joined goons and got robbed and kicked out like the hundreds of other people did in the huge robbery. now with trust issues and just 90mil and about 56mil in SP, there wasnt much i could do but return to high sec especially since i was a former goon member. I STILL get people messaging me for my location just to blow me up for being a goon. its not the games fault that sociopathic, manic players that have some scraps of digital cash are allowed to run rampant and force a narrative on a sandbox game. it just the player bases fault for letting such ideals run rampant and unchecked. yall cry about the econamy and try to equiate it to real world issues but ur not clocking into a shift at McDonalds in Eve for a flat specific pay rate. no we are try to play a game we paied to have access to and now some no life sweat is restricting that because him and his "friends" are gate camping some random sector because they want that kill mail. cats are as cheap as rocks and it cost sand to fit them. losing them has no impact on the econamy or the market but what they blow up does, what they target they do effect because that person they are targeting is not them. its either pay to live under the gankers rule in high-sec, participate in the inmature soap opera that is null sec because words actually hurt out there not actions. or be a weirdo thats scetched out and live in a wormwhole and hopefully make some friends and run a successful POS. there is no " im a PvE player" you either paid the gankers, are an influencer so they dont mess with you or are secretly one of them. or a tool that is in every roam and fight in nullsec or simply trying to play the game and enjoy what it has to offer that is worth the engaging by living in a wormhole space. or try to find some quite, low traffic, barely touched high-sec spot that doest route through one of the gank pipes to jita or any of the other trade systems.
Agree with most of the talking points here, much of it aligned with the platform I ran on for CSM a few times years ago when CCP was nerfing and re-nerfing hi-sec. If I recall correctly switching the ability to engage in starter systems was rejected but going after new players in starter systems became punishable against older accounts. As an extra thing to look up if you want there was a study done internally by CCP when they were seriously considering banning ganking in hi-sec the outcome of which was learning that players who were ganked while relatively new had a higher retention rate than those left alone because they experienced the risk and loss. This study was done way prior to the alpha/omega system being added for players. Just my opinion but the players who want risk free hi-sec do so so they can have risk free ISK which, as you point out, is a bad idea. To me those players are trying to meta the game to the point where they can safely pursue risk free ISK and *win* etc which I think is a disservice that could do nothing more than hurt the game in the long run.
I am sorry but i simply don't agree with most of what u just said. I am really not disagreeing for the sake of it, but most of the points u said can be fixed even if high sec was total sec: 1) If new people leave the game after loosing their ship immediately then this game is not for them? Simply no. those people did not have the chance to explore the game's aspects to judge if they like it or not. Simple example in martial arts: if u tell a new guy that throughout his journey he might come out with broken bones, ribs, or even permanent injuries do u think they will stay excited and keep going on or are they simply going to leave and never comeback? They are simply not used to this life yet. If u give them time however and let them climb the ladder slowly step by step ( Feel increasing pain slowly, experience things to discover that they can actually handle them and that they are not as painful as they seemed to be in the past,...) then after getting their feet wet they see martial arts from a completely different POV. Same for EVE. Being greeted by ppl who will blow ur ship just for the sake of it does not reflect the reality of EVE in any way. its just a big load placed on the back of newcomers. 2) if ppl spend the time in total sec doing missions, then they will simply build up ISK and drive the price of modules down: Simple Fix is to make rats not drop any modules (just like drones in null sec ratting) and make the reward for completing missions and killing rats barely anything high enough to allow a newcomer to fly a T1 destroyer in a few days. Surely ppl will have a way to generate ISK constantly without risk or loss, but if it is going to take me one day of ratting in total sec to barely make 1M isk then it is simply not worth it for experienced players or even Botters. Also CCP can simply put gates to restrict access to mission sites to not allow battleships or any ship that is not considered a starter ship to pass in. 3) Total sec allows for more Botting: I mean Null sec has far more botters even tho it is supposed to be the least safe place?? low sec has botters, high sec has botters. Botting is really a problem related to players and CCP. Players abuse mechanics and CCP Allows it while rarely doing anything about it... Botters exist with or without Total security and thei existence is very remarkable. *** I am not Saying the High sec should be entirely Total sec. Even i dont agree with this. But this does not mean that CCP cannot create a safe starting environment for new players to get their feet wet. Maybe 3-4 systems that are total sec with very minimal rewarding activities. They would serve as an introduction to EVE and would host most of EVE's activities with barely any rewarding ISK. And as a final note: You simply cannot make the argument that people will have a way to farm content with no risk and that they dont have a life therefore. EVE is a sandbox. people are free to play it like they want. if i decide to keep running missions in a total security environment for days and barely get the price of my ship in return the i am totally free to do it. You cannot oblige ppl to play the way you think is better. They are free to do what they want if ISK is not their priority. once they start to need ISK then they will be obliged to leave the tutorial area( Total sec) and dive deeper into High/low/null/Pochven/WH,...
My issue isn't whether high sec should be "safe" or not, it's that the reputation system and the mechanics of suicide ganking in high sec is hot garbage.
Nope...what is hot garbage is the inability to look at local and to use D-scan. If you can't use a tool like the in game map or a third party site like Gate Camp Check then you really should move on to WOW.
@@tituscromwell8432 None of that is relevant to the point that the rep system is a joke and suicide ganking is a dumb consequence of CCP's bad highsec system.
@@chadnine3432 No, avoiding getting ganked in the first place is entirely the point! You got ganked because you were lazy, incompetent or both. That's all on you, not CCP, Benzie, me or anybody else, and its been like this for 21 years.
@@tituscromwell8432 that is a garbage ass take right there. nobody should have to look at 3rd party out of game sites or guides just to avoid losing assests simply from playing the stupid game. D-scan was for sites not and anoms not to see if someone is lag switching in system as they rush in to gank someone before they register in local.
Fully agree regarding hisec 'security'. To me the connection between fully secure areas with market influence and a broken economy is very direct, not a slippery slope. There isn't much of a gray are imho. Regarding new player systems, it is already a bannable offense to gank in the starter systems. Hisec is already quite a bit safer, since certain modules aren't usable. More or less all combat related AOE effects are unusable, no bubbles, bombs, etc. This makes certain forms of travel, particularly in small ships a lot easier and safer as long as you don't autopilot through Udema. Correction: smartbombs can be used, but are increadibly east to get yourself concorded.
Been playing eve since it came out. I have held the belief that concord should do what most Legal systems do(or try to do). Make you pay for what you destroy and maybe a little jail time.
Since 2011 the only ships I have lost in high sec and have been to PVE or corp wars. I've been dropped in on my Marauders during l4 missions four times in 13 years. I lived in nullsec as part of a rather large operation and died at least twice a week.
I agree hi-sec should not be safe, however the actual example of the airport security doesn't work for abyssal runners. They have had to give everything to security (belts, shoes, etc) and while in the scanner there are 10 people with guns drawn waiting for them to exit. The police is just standing there waiting for it to happen, they allow folks with drawn guns to just point and wait. That should not be possible imho, more effort should be put by the aggressors to make the playing field more fair. For ganking travellers, etc, etc I'm all for it, there are enough options which make that extremely safe with the right prep. Meaning there is a actual valid counter if both sites put time into it.
Benzie I normally agree with you but on this i cannot and will not. Its actually an aspect I HATE with the game. You do make some points and the botters are scum. Lol looking at the length of my reply it looks like I became like benzie with it lol. HOWEVER, If I have had a long day of work, I should be able to relax in a game that I am PAYING to play, I should be able to do that without getting harassed and griefed. I dont expect to get rich but I should be able to relax, play and have fun for a game im paying for. If I want to make more, I need to take more risks by going into low sec/null/wh. I should be able to run l4 missions without being harassed. Its actually an aspect that elite dangerous got right. I could login in solo or private modes with corp mates when i wanted to relax or I could go open when I wanted more. However it did make the game empty in addition to frontiers screwed up management of the game. It had potential that tanked because of them. I started playing eve in 2006. then ccp tanked the market when they introduced the drone regions. I couldnt afford to fund my miners while those with combat skills were getting the same minerals I was with having dedicated skills that didnt translate to anything else. I sold my toons and quit the game. Then in 2009ish friends said they were interested in eve and asked if I would play with them. We were all starting from scratch. I made sure they didnt do anything to draw attention out us, harass others or do anything against others. I was hauling trash in a bestower to make isk. within a few weeks we had a griefer in an inty war dec us (back before structures were needed to be war decced) after 3 weeks of constant harassment and not being able to do anything in the game because our low character skills didnt allow us to counter this older player, I purchased my main toon, a rapier pilot. I surprised him, caught him and killed him. He finally let the war dec lapse because he could no longer bully newbies. However the damage was done and most of my friends quit the game and I was left looking for a new home. I then got collecting characters. After a couple years I was ice mining in stain null with 12 accounts dual rorqs ten maxed exhumers. I had 2 jump freighters. I was playing 12-20 hours a day on my days off. I was helping my corp mates with always keeping them supplied with things they needed from jita as I was making trips 3-5 days a week. However it became too much work as I was having to mine for 2 weeks to pay for my accounts for a month. Not to mention the risks to the assets I had on the field. I downsized to 7 then 5 accounts and am so much happier. The 3-5 accounts seems to be a happy medium. I actually left a recent corp because they had a mouthy disrespectful -9.8 sec status ganker in it. He loved to boast and harass people in empire. He was getting more to do it and bringing in others to do it with him. The corp allowed it. I could not be associated with scum like that and his lack of character because his actions reflected on the corp, and therefore everyone in it. 24:00 On this I can agree with you. Sadly though there are too many that love to bully others and get on a power trip or think that because its online or a game they can do whatever they want and act any way they want. There needs to be more players and corps with a respectful ethos. Sadly its seems rarer and rarer anymore to the point you cant help but notice it when you see it. Its important to be a person of character, everywhere you go including online and gaming.
I understand where you're coming from, but that's also a misunderstanding, I think, that you should be able to come home and relax with a game you paid for. I get the principle, but... It's not logical. You knew what EVE was, before paying for it, so to demand it be something else just doesn't make sense. It's like booking a day of Paintball, getting there, and then asking the staff if they can instead do a spa day, something more relaxing, because you're tired and heck, you paid for the Paintball right so...? I don't mean to be dismissive here, btw. I'm not good at typing 😅 I actually detest that Elite Dangerous let's you do this. You get into danger, so you log off and continue offline alone. So what's the point? This brings me back to my points about EVE in the other video. EVE is a niche game, and that's fine. It's a PVP game at its heart, and that destruction is NECESSARY for the game. It's also necessary for the players to profit - the trick is making sure that other people are the ones being destroyed. I'd also say that you've kind of set yourself up. You've made EVE a job, by having multiple accounts and choosing to only PLEX them. Of course you're going to get stressed out at that. It's why I have no desire to multibox, personally, and why I choose to pay for Omega. It allows me to engage with the game on my own terms.
@@captainbenzie I agree with elite dangerous. It really wasnt dangerous at all lol. There were aspects I liked and others I didnt. Same with eve. I HATE all the catering to the gankers and how they can enter missions to grief you yet you cant do anything about it. Sadly theres no other game like eve with the good aspects with its depth and variety which is why I keep getting sucked back into it. I still think that ccp needs to come up with something for the casual players, or for times like now where its 3am, I'm tired and I want to relax and play vs ship spin. yes plexing 12 accounts became like a job and the stress of it. it took the fun out of it. its why i downsized as in reality I make more with fewer accounts because Im not needing crazy isk to plex all these others (especially with the hugely inflated plex prices atm) but at times due to finances plexing the game was the only option at times. Its why I opted to try to avoid doing that when I came back. I do hope to plex my accounts and I would love to build up a years subscription time from plexing. However its not a priority atm. Currently the priority is to find a decent corp to have fun with and grow with. finding a decent corp is more work than plexing 12 accounts lol.
@@captainbenzie that's a really bad analogy and you are completly wrong. Eve is not just ONE thing, just because YOU like to play it your way. The cool thing about Eve is that there is so many ways to play it and have fun in very different ways. I have always played at lot solo in the game and enjoyed it a lot. Sometimes it's chilling in an astroroid field and mining, sometimes playing with others, and I can't see why some aspects of the game can't be allowed to be relaxing. Also a lot of your ranting about the market prices are completely wrong. Most stuff that gets destroyed and driving the resource gathering, production and market is NOT a couple of players loosing ships in high-sec. It's NULL sec alliance wars, low-sec pirates/faction wayfare and Wormhole fights. And none of that will all of a sudden stop happening just because you fix people being able to grief and harrass other players in high-sec. That's just bullshit and you know it.
@@tobberhthe game isn't just one thing like you said, but it's not even many things and all are valid. That might be how we like to look at it, but it's just objectively true that it's one thing way more than anything else.....and that one thing is...Pve. The vast majority of time people spend in eve is Pve, I don't even get where people are so smug about claiming it's a PVP game. Their argument should be used again them, they are ruining this objectively Pve game with too much PVP. The fact they have made it where you for sure die if you break the high sec GAME RULE, you will need a second account to collect the loot, you will only get half of the loot, etc etc... That's one thing they get right where they say high sec ganking is actually a pain and really hard for them... Ignoring that all the reason it's like that is because the game design is trying to stop it by making it worse and worse...while they proclaim Pve players are doing it wrong.
@@captainbenzie and while that is on YOUR own terms its not everybody's terms. its not on the terms of the people that do get harrassed and ganked into quitting because The New Order has no real control and their people are and can be rediculusly toxic. its not even just them, its just random Joes that simpyl feel like it because they know they can get away with it. they can hunt people across the entire verse and kill them because there is simply no where safe from someone that doesnt care anymore. i dont even think you could imagine losing everything just because a small gang of gankers didnt like that you ignored them and they follow you for 28 jump across system only to blow up what little you have removing any way and means to make isk. then what the hell is the point? always at the mercey of some cock off waiting in a cat. some no lifer that has hundred of gank cats to be used anywhere in high-sec. its no cost to him thats for sure and its really just nothing to the econamy for hundreds to thousands of cats to blow up. so it doesnt strain the market or the econamy or industry. for the ganker its like, going outside and picking up rocks to throw at passing cars. they are basically free. but that car is not.
I could see completely safe starting areas for players with completely free ships too, but Everything earned in the starting areas is only available in the starting areas. Since corvettes are free i could also see upgradable corvettes.
Veteran players on EVE: Don't be in Highsec, Null is safer. New Player on EVE: Applies to 5-6 Nullsec Corps is denied for undisclosed reasons. Tries mining in Nullsec anyways gets smoked. Goes back to Highsec gets smoked.
It's easy to get lost in the crowd in those corps or be labelled a spy (that's the undisclosed reason usually), it's better to start out small with people who are actually willing to help you, and a frankly staggering amount of people will literally fall over each other to do just that. It's not like you have to stay in one corp forever, start small and work your way up.
I enjoy the fact that my training finally Has me becoming a tough target. I was mining in a .09 system and was Ganked by 4 Cormorants Blaster Fit 2 had tech 2 guns and 2 didn't. I didn't even have armor or shield modules I know they had tech 2 guns because I picked them up after Concord Blew them up. So now all my miners have tons of tank and I am Actually completely safe because it will take more Isk to take me down than they will get if they succeed. So I am good with eve the way it is. if you keep getting killed get better. It has taken me 2 years but almost all my armor and shield skills are trained all the way up. It really makes a difference. I can fly the Zelot Haven't goten 1 yet very expensive for my Abyssal Ret to bring in the money for, and I keep giving a lot away to teach new crew mates to fly in the abyss.
the funny thing is they will still gank you with more stuff even if the "cost" exceeds your ship/kill mail value. they do not care, you do not have a permit. you exsist in their game not yours. you are bascially just a shiny npc to them.
@@snowwann273 I guess thats just re-inforces the idea that theres a 'safer' hi-sec is bogus, or maybe its that the pilots that hunt in hi-sec are bullies.
I remember my first ship that I built, a mammoth, was blown up on its first undock. Never even got to warp ever. I was so damn mad. I was alpha so it took a while. I decided to go stay in nullsec as a t6 alpha, lol
i had the privilege to talk with princess Aiko and i can say that her majesty is a great ruler that have the best interest of the people of new eden in her heart , i find funny that people that don't know much about the game think they know better than blessed figures like her majesty
Captain I agree with almost everything you say. I would like to throw in one caveat. This involves highsec suicide ganking in corvettes. I have seen it happen to several players including myself that a fleet of 25 or so free corvettes come in to gank a miner. Perhaps they did have guns that they bought, but I dont think so. In my case, they did have one cheap tackler, That flew off before Concord could hit it. I do not have a problem with the ganking itself. I just believe doing it in free corvettes is a problem. They need to risk some isk if they're going to enjoy that content.
The story can be flipped too. Why were you still there when any ship warped onto you? 😅 I know it sucks, but this is part of the learning experience of EVE
@@captainbenzieIn this particular case, it was that the system I was in was quite busy. If I warped out every time somebody got within 7AU of me, I would never be able to mine a thing. But truthfully that is my problem. However, it seems to me that you approve of people ganking in completely free ships? Or do I misread you? Im not saying reduce the risk in hisec. I am saying increase the risk for those that do the suicide ganking. As an aside, That was over a year ago and it hasn't happened to me since. I just don't like the principle of being able to gank with no risk. Other than a criminal timer that nobody cares about. One last point. When they get their corvettes blapped by concord I cannot build more corvettes to sell them. If they were doing it in rifters I would have no complaints.
@@coryjohnson7025 yes, I have no issue with folks ganking in corvettes. It requires quite the fleet and thus setup, and a well fit industrial should be able to tank that little damage for quite a while. Alternatively, as you say, a quieter system can be beneficial (as can setting to red anyone or corp you know participates in ganking). It sucks to have it happen, but I believe it's valid and is a learning opportunity. Same as the first time I jumped a "helpless Heron" in my Sabre, only to find it was a ludicrous fit with Medium Ancillary Shield Boosters and rockets. And it kicked my ass 😂
@@captainbenzieAlthough I still disagree with you, you do make some valid points. In any case I go out in either an Orca or a Skiff in those areas where I know it might happen. So I don't worry. And just so you don't think that I'm a carebear talking here, on occasion I do hunt in low and nullsec. o7
@@captainbenzie or one guy running 8 accounts and botting the real problem with ganking in high sec is that is just demonstrates what a POS you are. If you enjoy ruing the enjoyment of others you are not to be trusted ever.
If a target dies from NPC police in highsec, anyone they received a killmail for should be the only party able to retrieve loot from said wreck. Only the ganked party can retrieve their loot. Edit: This could manifest as the wreck is only accessible to the victim, or the drops are sent to asset safety and retrieved as a price (another ISK sink), or any other creative solution. Yes, you should be able to gank and work around these rules. Yes, the ganked party is still at a loss for having lost a hull, and in effect, has lost ISK/progress/time, for having done something 'risky'. No, it should not be profitable. The moment it's profitable, it is inherently incentivized. You are in effect telling players who want to grief other players, and often times with little to no options to counter said griefing, that we 'want' you to do this. I'm perfectly okay with the current mechanics existing outside hisec. It should be lawless and unforgiving. However, we already acknowledge that certain areas of hisec, starter systems for instance, carry heavier consequences for lawless actions. There should be much higher consequences for lawless actions inside high security space. If you want to gank in hisec, sure, do it. But it should not be profitable. The only ganking in hisec that should be tolerated is when the target is a "strategic objective", not ISK. The current system doesn't even reflect how humanity has acted historically. Police don't show up to a crime, stop the threat, and then allow them to walk away with someone else's property. Edit: Love your content btw Benzie, you're doing good stuff, I just disagree with you on this topic. Keep up the good work.
@@captainbenzie the idea of security having different tiers is the idea that there are tiers of players, and tiers of content. The current system actively encourages the highest tier players to feed on the bottom tier players, and this is incentivized by being more profitable than almost all other content available within the same space. You can still choose to gank. This mechanic would NOT inherently prevent ganking from happening. It would simply disincentives doing it outside of strategic reasons. This is not totalsec. The option still exists. You are simply not allowing bad-actors a profitable way to grief. They can still farm their killmails. They can still stop people from moving resources from A to B. They are allowed the option to gank the same player at the wreck trying to retrieve their loot for *strategic* reasons. Both parties lose here but at *stategic* interest. You are still able to make the activities the ganked party was doing carry risk of being ganked, and at a loss to themselves It is not total loss for victim, total profit for perpetrator as it currently is. It should NOT be incentivized. That's not how humanity works. That's why it's so frustrating for new players. The barrier to entry is too high. Ganking drives away the very prey the gankers want. This mechanic would not inherently create totalsec. It deters bad-actors. Bad-actors deter players. "big number go up, monkey brain happy" can also apply to gankers who are profiting off. Gankers are flooding the market the very same loot you accuse the farmers of flooding the market with. You also make the argument that the "players who want to actually play the sodding game" can't plex their accounts if ganking is prevented. This idea also inherently suggests that the ganked players don't want to play.... Huh? Perhaps these victims would want to play the sodding game if they weren't on unequal footing in what is suppose to be the least profitable, grindiest, and safest area they can inhabit.
Isnt it kind of already that way ? Isn't that why people have to run a second account for looting the wrecks to avoid the criminal mechanic entirely? They already did what they could to police high sec I think. It's turned into a suicide gank in a matter of seconds that you need multiple accounts to avoid the mechanics meant to stop you....yet people still wanna do that instead of go pvp.
@@captainbenzie People could still do it out of spite to destroy stuff. There should be a security rating that can't go up that every player has applied. Basically a social credit score but one that takes a long time to go down to the point of being permanently barred from 1.0 sec places. Hey, I have an idea of something that would be a fun mechanic. Make a realistic module that you can buy for your pod that detonates a powerful explosion if someone pods you. It would be expensive but would take out most attacking ships. You know the saying about not undocking with something you can't afford to lose, well, make it work in both directions. That way PVP players don't get 100% security if they invest 1B in a ship and years in training. This is how it would be in real life. Spending 500,000,000 - 1B to punish a ganker would be pretty funny.
@@captainbenzie oh no.. I wish they compounded just like my ETFs do :)
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Hisec shoud not be safe - but repeat offenders should have a progressively longer criminal status (within that faction) so you cannot camp a station or gate full days for months on end. So, make the criminal status 15 mins - but make repeat offenses double that time for each offence for say 30 days running (could be security status dependent) 15 mins, 30 mins, 1 hour, 2h, 4h, 8h, etc. do something similar with the suspect status nowhere will be completely safe, gankers would need to be less active in a single area
I wholeheartedly agree with you captain. And I also agree that something like a voucher system for a few ships sounds amazing. As a newer player myself that came from eve echoes I too remember watching the market crash. I was a null sec industrialist and one of the main reasons I fell away from echoes was the plummeting market and my skills becoming all but worthless. I truly lament state of echoes it started so high and fell so fast. "The bigger they are" right? Another great "low effort" piece hahaha I joke really. Love the vids keep them coming. Great to listen to in the background at work.
The time gates in games are not there to save people from themselves. They are there to incentivise people to buy the premium corrency, or be forced to grind for many hours to get what you want.
I seem to remember him already talking about this topic some time ago. Maybe it was around Eve Echoes or i´m just confusing channels here. The token thing is an intresting ide however right away i saw a massive loophole that most ppl could exploit especially the market traders and the industrial players would exploit this right after the servers went back up. What if a player makes a Catalyst and another player uses this new token to buy the ship, dosent sound like a problem untill u realise that the player selling the ship priced it a 50billion ISK and the player buying it was a fresh alt from the player selling the ship. I like the token ide but there would need to be a clear hardcap on how mutch u could spend by using 1 token. It needs to be a fixed price point becouse if it maybe be based on the average market price u know some rich guy gonna buy up the entire market supply and then list 1 extreme overpriced item and then buy that using a token from a fresh account.
I played this game quite a bit now... I like to engage pvp solo and in froup as well as hauling alot of tuff from and to jita and I only been ganked in hs once: my alt was carry g a large skill injector from perimeter to jita. Tha is the one and only time I been ganked in hs and was 100% preventable ad huge risck from my part
Greets. Listening and wanna comment on your comment, comment by comment :) one should not use real life situations to compare to a game situations. If you Have to, then at least Try your best to compare apples to apples. Meaning in Eve, you suicide gank you lose your ship and security status. In real life you suicide gank, you die (i.e. suicide bomber) there is no waking up in a station there is death, or if you survive something like that, most likely prison for life for those High security areas. To look at it from a game perspective. first off, there is no death. so lets change all the weapons of the world to LTL (less than lethal) now if you go about ganking the most you will lose is your gun and some time/fine as the cops process your crime. Nothing to be replaced? so did Eve Echoes have all ships and modules and whatnot all for just like 1 isk? Mind you I totally understand the concept how destruction is one of the many fuels of economic growth, But unless eve Echoes only had total safety PVE players. supply and demand. Also big number go up monkey brain be happy, I laughed. but you are an ass :) Now the comment about infinite Isk and Plex going to a billion isk. . . Worriedly look at those 30 + multi boxer that's on this moon and he plexes it ALL. but then again Supply and demand. but I did shudder. Corporations. . . You have seen the Pic of the Eve interview :) Also, the fact that some of the biggest player changes has come from "spies" Also Low effort Filler content. Really got your goat. Almost sounds like he Ganked your podcase! :D Remember Eve TH-cam content creation is a niche thing, it's not for everyone. especially thin skinned players :D chadnine3432 lul
Ooh, I just got an idea that wouldn't even require new player starting areas to be "hacked" like this. The systems should be tiny, easy to defend by CONCORD, like one planet, one jump gate, tucked away safely near a trade hub. CONCORD would have like ridiculous response time, assets and firepower. You could easily make an argument that The Academy (of whatever faction) is the most valuable asset for the military to protect. (I'm making this comment at 20:07 in case you suggested it later in the video) On a completely different and completely unrelated note - we all know one big first world country that has a serious problem with security on school grounds. That's high-sec, right?
Agree, I've played this game for 5 years as a miner barge i experience being gank by suicide catalyst destroyers, in high sec later i found out that because my corps is always at war for resources, competition and hegemony against other corps, the enemy start attacking our mining area and it is very annoying. We called them "Suicides lunatics" or jihadist.
Heh, loved the good old reason for bot waves. There is actually more to it, a problem with banning bot's on the spot is that you tell them exactly how, why and where they get banned. You don't really want that.
An argument can be made that if the answer to those questions is "Because we saw you botting" "Because you were botting" and "Everywhere" the problem would be solved, it really just comes down to money, which is understandable, but not particularly satisfying.
Another solution for new players is insurance, not the current crap insurance (which used to a LOT better.) Perhaps players who are less than a month old or maybe have less than X skill points can have insurance that REALLY pays out to cover costs. For the rest of us we get the crap insurance (that is barely worth it) that we have now.
@@captainbenzie Really, for a limited time and you don't get it all back, maybe 80% back. So each kill is still a loss. Also don't see how it is ISK Printing, you have to have bought the ship in the first place and paid the insurance fee. Obviously it does not apply to any free stuff you get.
👍The game is fine. Tears are salty. Fun fact, back in the day, I had a friend who rage quit because he lost his golem to gankers. It was a sight to see.
A dwindling player base of multi boxers cannot support a live service game for too long. Finding joy at players leaving the game is self harm to your own enjoyment.
I believe there is a tool already in the game that would help new players to not cry for losing a ship. But it lost the meaning because doesn't pay enough to buy the hull. It is the Insurance tool. Even if you choose the maximum insurance, it is not worth. And it is not mentioned during the AIR program, i think 🤔
Just boost CONCORD reaction for new player regions, and some damage reduction in those systems, so they dont get oneshoted. -> +info, that this system is uberprotected by concord.
You'll always be able to just over-fit and be able to one-shot. I also do believe that new players need to get used to losing ships early. It needs to be utterly ingrained into new players that losing ships is fine and normal - embrace it, just learn from it each time!
What do you think about this, in High Sec, when a player (steals) the last main ship in deadspace open event, you automatically can lock and combat them with no Concord intervention?
I do think the new NPE is pretty good, and I say that as someone who tore their previous attempts to pieces because of how bad they were. The little button that warps you around is kind of silly though, it makes far more sense to just teach you the method you'll be using for the rest of the game. You can't gank people in newbie systems already, well you can, but you'll get banned for it. You get given so much money/ships for free now I really can't envision someone actually running out early on, the daily missions alone more than pay for a fitted T1 frigate and you can do them in the starter ship.
Any worse stories here than mine? I just started nearly for nearly a month. While doing the AIR missions, I finally tried to do PVE hunting down non-capsuleers in hi-sec. While approaching the Guerista NPCs, I noticed Im getting hit quite harder than usual. And even before I could react to bail out, I was done. My interest kinda fell off a bit too cause of the fact that I was expecting some kind of regulations when it comes to new players especially in HI-SEC. What's worse was after "getting the candy off a kid", he had the guts to tell me to fuck off?!!? lol 2024.06.16 02:15:18 Victim: Jeez Zaznutz Corp: School of Applied Knowledge Alliance: Unknown Faction: Unknown Destroyed: Kestrel System: Sobaseki Security: 0.8 Damage Taken: 2193 Involved parties: Name: Lathgertha Fonulique (laid the final blow) Security: 5.00 Corp: Yon-ju-Nana-shi Alliance: None Faction: None Ship: Drake Weapon: Scourge Heavy Assault Missile Damage Done: 2193 Destroyed items: Small EM Shield Reinforcer I Small Core Defense Field Extender I Light Missile Launcher I Nova Light Missile, Qty: 73 (Cargo) Nova Light Missile, Qty: 40 Light Missile Launcher I Small Shield Extender I Salvager I (Cargo) Proof of Discovery: Anomalies (Cargo) Metal Scraps, Qty: 3 (Cargo) Inertial Stabilizers I Scourge Light Missile, Qty: 150 (Cargo) Small Inductive Compact Remote Capacitor Transmitter (Cargo) Iridium Charge S, Qty: 100 (Cargo) Small Core Defense Field Extender I Relic Analyzer I (Cargo) Light Missile Launcher I Iron Charge S, Qty: 100 (Cargo) Core Probe Launcher I (Cargo) X5 Enduring Stasis Webifier Dropped items: Core Scanner Probe I, Qty: 8 (Cargo) Nova Light Missile, Qty: 90 (Cargo) Data Analyzer I (Cargo) Proof of Discovery: Anomalies (Cargo) Small Shield Extender I (Cargo) Metal Scraps (Cargo) Nova Light Missile, Qty: 40 Ballistic Control System I Scan Rangefinding Array I (Cargo) Iridium Charge S, Qty: 100 (Cargo) Proof of Discovery: Data (Cargo) Light Missile Launcher I Inferno Light Missile, Qty: 163 (Cargo) Nova Light Missile, Qty: 40 Tungsten Charge S, Qty: 100 (Cargo) Faint Epsilon Scoped Warp Scrambler 5MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive Nova Light Missile, Qty: 40
Is it possible you got yourself accidentially "flashy" beforehand, i.e. suspect timer, e.g. by looting a drop box that didn't belong to you? If you were, they were able to attack you without a CONCORD response. Somebody in a Drake going after a new player in a Kestrel is definitely not the norm - they would have had to be incredibly bored to do this. And if it was an unprovoked attack, you can take solace in the fact that they will have lost their ship worth many, many times your Kestrel to CONCORD.
@Captin Benzie Hello there, I need some help, My problem is that I am always stuck at very low dps on extream fits like a gnosis fit used for t4 abyssal deadspaces, with faction missile launchers and dps boosting modules, the fit was meant to get at least 900+ dps with drones, but actualy i get something like roughly 243 dps, the problem isn't only with this fit it's on all ships and fits with turrets and launchers, my skills of missile launchers are high enough as alpha clone to get high dps for t4 abyssal deadspaces, but even having all skills, the problem is still showing, and the actual gameplay damage values are equal to the dps in the fit menu with the low dps problem. Please anyone if you know what the problem is and how to fix it tell me, I asked in the Rookie help chat section but no one knows what the problem is. Thank you.
Yeah, Idk. Had a new bro get on the game, did tutorial, mined a couple days, got a cheap mining ship and went to mine in a .8 sec. Before he knows it, hes being told he has to have a mining license, even tho our Corp home station is there, and of course he has no money so they kill him. Now he has to wonder, is this hame even worth it, if I cant even get started before being accosted. They wiped out the rest of the miners in system and moved on.. .8 Sec space might has well have been .3
That's EVE. I don't mean that to sound like a handwave of what is obviously a nasty situation to end up in... But that's why the new player experience gives so much ISK, so many ships, and why you are consistently directed to join a corp. Yes, bad things happen in EVE, and that's kind of the point. The low points exist to accentuate the high points. The heroic player achievements matter more when there's genuine risk to them. Hopefully your friend took that as a learning experience. Red list the pilot and corp, stay aware of local. Nowhere is safe, and learning lessons like this help him get destroyed less. Accepting that these destructions are what fuels his industry (basic ore is worth something because it's risky, if it was safe to harvest, it would be worthless). As I said, profitability in Industry comes from destruction. The trick is making sure it's NOT YOU getting destroyed.
@captainbenzie Yeah, completely understand. I've been playing off and on since 2006 and I just live on the danger of it but I've always been a 100% solo guy. Now I'm coming back and trying to be more social for the first time and just got absolutely addicted to wormholes. So, I'm bringing friends in too. It's brought a new view of things as I try and explain these things for the first time to someone else but me lol. I pulled him into Catskull with me. I'm devoted as I've ever been and I'm holding on to him best I can lol. It just didn't help it was in the Tolle system of all places, to pirates demanding Mining licenses 😆. Anyway, thanks for giving me some new ways to try and explain this wild west to a growing player. I live on your content but I'm a better student than teacher. 👍
24:11 that is what we do with our WH corp. if we gank someone, a heron or venture and see if the char is like 1 month old, we then send them an email which we prepared about dscan and so on and also return like 1-5m so he can buy a new ship. Still feel bad about one situtation. one guy was multiboxing with two alpha accounts. one heron for hacking and a caracal to "protect" it. i jumped into the site and the caracal was on 0 there so i attacked it. the heron got scared and warped away to a the ordinary gas site with tower and lost there his ship. so he lost at the end everything. with a one week char
Haha, it happens! I think some people forget that you can't tell how old someone is or what their intentions are, quickly. We had a Magnate appear in our home system at a time when we were particularly jumpy due to a few seeders. That Magnate was scanned and leapt upon by one of our Scottish players in record time. He links the kill, points out that the account is literally 3 hours old and in a thick Scottish accent, says simply and sadly "I am a BAD, bad man..." 😂
Just joined CTSK ! I happy to be there. Just a thought... I would love if you actually uploaded all of these talking-style of videos to apple podcasts.
Wow, I am new the EVE and this info has been super invaluable. You brought a perspective I hadn’t considered. As a side note, I do offer a bit of feedback. I think your voice audio/mic setup could use some tuning. I find myself being distracted with the loud inhales throughout the video and cannot understand how you would have a mic capable of allowing me to hear you swallow?(4:07) Content is S tier mate, subbed and looking forward to more content!
@@dullahandan4067 to discount something purely because of its platform is absurd. Echoes may be a mobile game that's now a dumpster fire, but it also has a LOT of learning points, some of them GOOD. EVE Online has implemented several features that were in Echoes and worked: AIR Career Program, Corporation projects etc. We can also look at Echoes for what DIDN'T work. But instead of learning from something, you'd just ignore it? This is how history repeats. Echoes tried things in an EVE setting, some worked, many didn't. Learning from that is important.
I can follow, yes I learned in life, the one who is not afraid to loose is wining more, more value of life, shure you have to be sane and you have to know exactly what barriers can come up. But thats the fun, overcome barriers by knowing them in and out and creating ways to handle them or even use them to win 😁👍🚀
Yes I like the opinions you presented with the tried and true facts. Also the total security options are great idea. Like 1.0 sec areas or the only total security basically starting areas. And couple that with starting mission ship tokens fantastic. You really do put a lot of thought into content ideas.
I've been the ganker and the gank-eee. Exploding ships make market move. If you can't afford to lose the ship, keep it docked. Or you do what I do. Don't just build one, build a backup. Then build a backup to your backup.
I still think that there should be more of a probability to things like warp disruption. The problem with the system as it is is that someone who's played for years and has a lot of money can have a 100% probaility of taking out another ship. Warp disrupters should be a role of a dice. Maybe a 3/4 chance of working and a 1/6th chance of deactivating the shields of the ship using it. Would make PVP a lot more fun if the risk wasn't 1-sided.
At the end of the day, some people just don't like hardcore PvP-only MMOs. You can say, "Just go play something else.", but the problem (for the developers) is that they *will* just go play something else. By driving away the players who don't like PvP but do like the PvE elements of EVE, you're cutting out a good chunk of potential paying customers. Wouldn't it be better if there were simply more/better incentives to use lowsec to drive more PvP for those that want it?
Just as an FYI, I believe this is already a thing. If you purposely interfere with new players doing the tutorial by ganking them you can be banned for it. Not sure if that extends to career missions too tho.
High sec ganking is too easy and should have harsher punishment and you should not be able to gain your reputation or security status back with just money.
That moment when you think you understand how I'm thinking better than I do, or how TH-cam works when you have one video up with 11 views, and I've been YouTubing as my career for seven years now. Seven years paying my bills with this 😊 If you think I'm making short term content, my man, I'm not sure the evidence supports that, but do sound off. Just like how EVE Online is a niche game and not for everyone, and different aspects of that game appeal to different people, this kind of content may not be for you - and that's fine! I wouldn't expect a combat player to want to watch my exploration videos and visa versa! But please don't be quite so arrogant as to think that you not liking something is for dumbass reasons like you're giving. Some folks have really enjoyed this kind of video, and they're fun to make as a change of pace.
In my view, that's perfectly fine - you play the game the way you want to! Even by staying in a 1.0 sec system, you are a full-fledged member of the player community. Because even in a 1.0 sec system, the difference between it being high-sec vs. what it would be if it was perfect-sec is huge.
I like high sec the way it is. The only issue I have is that freaking safety button. As an alpha I can't change it to red, but an Omega can and fire on anyone in high sec. As an alpha I cannot do so and so with that I am left unable to fight off a player that is stealing my high sec mission UNLESS I'm fired on first! If I'm not fired on and they ruin my site, I can't take ANY action and forced to leave the site due to this action. They are able to fly in, attack me in that mission and fly off no problem. And before anyone says I was in low sec your wrong. .5 isn't low sec....
If alpha was able to gank, it would make it far too easy for every single person to have a permanent high-sec ganking alt for absolutely zero monetary cost. Obviously this is easy to do on Omega and only take a few days of training time, but those training hours are paid for. I'm okay with ganking in high-sec. But do I want to make it literally free for anyone and everyone to run around ganking? No. CCP treats Security Status seriously, and being able to print alpha accounts without ever having to deal with security status getting too low again would be a problem in the game.
Missing the point, this completely leaves a new alpha vulnerable with no idea as to how or why it happened. All the while that tech 3 just warps off laughing with little to no retaliation for his actions.
What specifically did they do when they "stole" your highsec mission? As far as I know, if they try to steal your loot, they will go flashy, meaning you *can* attack them back. If they come in and attack you, you can obviously fight back. If they "complete" the mission for you by taking out the NPC targets (not sure why they would), you just got an unasked-for assist, and you should still be able to hand in the mission no problem.
@@maedetheone I ran a mission with two friends, all three in Merlins, tech 3 tactical shows up, fires on my friends and then me...that's stealing my site, not giving unasked-for assistance. No one in eve gives unasked-for assistance.
There is a problem with the token, basicly making new chars to get the tokens, get out to null and then sell t1 frigs for billions since the game pays for it fully
You can do this now with the free ships really, but they don't cost a bil. The truth is their value is so low it simply isn't worth the effort. I think it would be better if there was a final mission that explained how to move elsewhere, along with advice to not put everything you own into a single hauler, not that a new player can do that, but it's worth mentioning anyway.
@@memitim171 i mean yes technically possible but not actually feasable, would be terrible isk per hour and the wait for the biotrashing of every character. I guess a totsec could be solved in the same way actually, totally nuke the income of highsec to like require 70hours of play every day to keep omega and then make it truesec to make it a demo version for new people and say that the true eve experience is in null
So let me get this straight; we've got to have high-sec suicide gankers to protect the devs from having to do their job and stop botters...another brilliant take
@@captainbenzie Nah I shut it off after you tried to float the "niche" game defense again but I did catch the part about EVE echoes and how having "complete safety" encourages botting and just thought it was a weird rationalization that was actually a non-sequitur so i expressed it as such.
@@theamazingwesbrown3290 so, in other words, you want to try and comment against what I said without even hearing what I said. Okay. That's logical. I mean, I even prefaced that bit REPEATEDLY by saying it was the most minor argument 😂 next time I'll write it on screen in crayon?
The problem is that the game relies on industrials collecting resources and building the ships, fittings, and all that but when you make that bit so tedious and time consuming that nobody wants to do it then what? When you make it too easy to waste the time of the few who do it and ruin their day for fun and profit, then what?
@@theamazingwesbrown3290 except there are PLENTY who love that play style, and recognise that the risk is what makes them profitable. Destruction provides their profit, but they're skilled enough to not be the ones getting blown up. If you find industry boring, it may not be the play style for you. If you're scared of risk, EVE may not be the game for you. Complaining that something is boring and too risky, just means it's not for you, and that's fine. There are games like Elite Dangerous where you can play online, then just log off and go offline if it gets too scary.
Highsec needs more options for PvP besides suicide ganking and joining a Jita camping wardec bloc. Suicide ganking is boring. We need more stuff like 1 man wardecs, baiting, etc. When I was in Suddenly Ninjas, tons of our recruits were mission runners or people we screwed with, because baiting and stalking is an involved process that could be fun for both sides. The fact that suicide ganking is the only highsec PvP left is frankly terrible for the game. The fact we have instanced Abyssals, the wardec system completely gutted, all make highsec PvP incredibly boring now.
@this.is.a.username Paul was great. I actually got mentored by Khalia. I still talk to the old guard sometimes but most of them have left the lifestyle because of all the changes.
If it is a real problem of new players being ganked and they rage quit, CCP should do something to keep these players safe for a set time so they can really learn the system. They could be invulnerable for 30days. This 30day vulnerability will be lost if they enter Low Sec, engage in any criminal activity or engage in any sort of PVP. A warning will pop up stating you will lose your vulnerable status due to said activity. Hi sec isn’t safe no matter where system you are. Just as in real life as you state. Security systems really aren’t in place to stop criminals they are to catch them after the fact.
Genuine questions: 1. do people actually target newbies? Or do people just find targets that are within their capability and normally are profitable? 2. I spend a lot of time in high sec, and the only time I am ever afraid is hauling valuable cargo. Do people actually kill T1 frigs/destroyers/cruisers etc if they are not hauling 100m isk or so worth of stuff? 3. Do people actually kill botting miners in highsec? It wouldnt seem profitable to me? I suppose it could be entertaining or at least satisfying to kill a botter... but normally they would pay their ship off quickly? And don't lose much from the death? For the purposes of grinding isk with bots I feel that highsec is already 'total sec'. Besides botting project discovery which is 'total sec' is probably more profitable than botting mining. 20+mill per hour per running instance. Does require a lot of accounts if you want to scale though... 1 instancing running alpha characters non-stop would need about 16 accounts. but still produces about 480m per day. Combine it with skill farming / skill farm to 20m SP you get an additional 9 billion per character per year. IE skill farm 3 characters per account to 20m sp gives 3 x marshal blueprints at 8 billion a pop + other blueprints + other rewards.
Most people are petty and thus they target new players. For every honorable PVPer, there's 100 people with jobs or relationships they don't like who want to take out their aggression on others.
making the starter zones total sec wont cut it why not give newbros a "pvp protection" for so many days? and while they are "protected" they cannot enter low/null sec or wormhole space without either protection timer running out or they opt out of the protection entirely to jump into those zones. give them enough time to get their bearing in the game.
I need to move some stuff from Hisec to Nullsec. I create an alt, send a load of money, skill injectors to fly a hauler, but and fit the hauler, load it and fly it 100% safe. I extract the skills if I can, then delete the character. That's why that doesn't work.
Add dead-man-switches to ships. Make them expensive but you'll be able to make the PVP behavior less excessive and no longer 1-sided. Imagine losing your mining ship to a ganker only for him to lose his 3B ISK tech 3 ship in the process.
@@tobberh nooooooooo that makes way too much sense, all players under the age of 35 but over the age of 16 explode if the offending player is amarr. Otherwise any other race people between those ages explode. Its the only way to be sure.
0:47 OH **** HERE WE GO!!! 🙄 Checks out a Benzie video because I miss my mate, and the Bull**** is infecting Eve Online?! People never change. 6:10 Waiting for him to mention Eve Echoes and the dumpster fire Highsec being completely safe is 😒 6:53 AND there it is 😊 8:15 Update* they added some belt "miners" in Nullsec, but they're extremely rare and harmless. 9:21 Boy does the botters never quit 🙄 10:06 It absolutely does ruin the market and economy, inflation is still a huge issue. 12:31 BOT the encounters* because that's all they do now. 13:58 Modules are completely dirt cheap now, utterly worthless unless it's meta. 15:30 ABSOLUTELY TRUE!! Arguably most EE players suffer from monkey brain. 😒 17:10 It has happened! Can't maintain a playerbase because of this. 18:50 And that sucks!!! 20:21 Yep, we have been doing everything we can think of forever, but FOMO is what it is. Players WILL choose total safety and free ISK eventually if it's available. The fix is players need to accept the risk, and become competitive. Good to see you Captain! 😊 Fly aggressive o7
your forgetting about casual players. People that PAY ccp each month because they don't play enough to earn the billions of isk needed to plex omega. There needs to be options for solo players, the more different kinds of play options available will help increase the player base, which will keep the game alive. I've tried eve echos, high sec being safe isn't the games issue, trying to play a game like eve on a mobile phone is!
Before Hisec islands were a thing, Echoes worked. It emulated the EVE experience well. So the platform isn't an issue (I don't see how a smaller screen or touch interface could be an issue since many folks literally engaged with EVE Online via EVE Anywhere doing the same thing). EVE is not intended for solo play. Yes, you CAN do it, but it's a terrible idea for a new player trying to understand the game and causes most of the dropouts that I see. Finding a corp to help learn the game keeps players around - going solo later is viable, but trying to solo at the start? You're making the game so much harder, so much more frustrating, and really ramping up the risk of quitting. It's like asking for a non-campaign solo mode in Apex Legends or Fortnite. Or asking for a cricket mode in NFL of FIFA. It's not what the game is designed for, and that's fine. Plenty of great solo space games out there for folks to engage with. We don't need to change the entirety of EVE Online's community focus to appease folks who ultimately don't want to play EVE Online. I wouldn't go into a Chinese restaurant and expect them to serve Mexican food, if that's what I want, I'd go to a Mexican restaurant.
@captainbenzie hay, I get why can't be safe. I do. But how about mining being backwards. T1 and ore miners/drones give best rewards with 0 waste, but t2 and factions give the highest waste. Explain how higher tech is worse than lower?
I don’t disagree with you but I desperately wish there was an eve like game where I could just chill and do my space trucking or missions without anxiety.
@@captainbenzieexcept it literally is. That's what the vast majority of time spend in eve is doing. Is it 80/20? 90/10? Let's just say it's not even close and I dare you to disagree. Isn't this in fact ruining a Pve game with too much PVP, rather than the other way around? Keep in mind if you attack in high sec you are killed, and wouldn't be able to loot your reward without paying for another account. Then security status etc.... these are things the game devs put in to police this activity right? Right?! So what we are talking about is how these rules put in by devs to defend the bulk of the players aren't working well enough. If the game was what you pretend it was none of that would exist and it would all be null, and it would have died a decade ago like EVERY game that tries this. You know why this isn't about a certain module being OP or a ship? Like literally every other game discussion about PVP would be? That's because balance literally doesn't matter when things are so broken that max level players are killing you at the merchant and ignoring all mechanisms put in place to stop that by simple paying more money.
If you are really just interested in the chill-and-fly-some-spaceships aspects, you *can* in principle go and play the game on the test server. You can even have your friends join you for group PvE and mining fleets.
Wow, I thought high sec was already pretty dang safe. In my own real world home town, people can still do bad stuff to you, but most of them don't, because the cops will come do bad things to them if they do. Sounds just like high sec. Let me be perfectly clear, since 2007 I have never once fired first on another player. Never. But the game would flat out suck if the game stopped you from shooting other players' ships or stealing their stuff. NPCs/rats exist to pump a little merchandise and money into the game to get the pump flowing, but the whole thing is about a real economy, real consequences, and real freedom, all driven by the players, not a hand holding nanny game that guides you along a predetermined track and won't let you off. (Jane, stop this crazy thing!) There's an entire industry of games like that, and oh look, I am not in any of them. For a reason. If it helps, just think of other players as enemy NPCs with exceptionally tricky AI, making them unpredictable. Some of them will aggro on you, so look out! Thankfully, CCP will never bend to these demands, since it would not be in their interest to do so. Nothing is ever perfect, so they'll keep tweaking and adding and adjusting and it's all good. Or at least, the bad isn't worth getting knicker-twisted about. Go pummel some belt rats and get your aggression out. But watch out for those Catalysts that just landed on grid, right? Sometimes I think I should make a parody of the "This is EvE" video, showing gold farmers in a Korean MMO and stuff like that, and call it "This is NOT EvE, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time." o7
Well, I actually have never heard anyone who would like it to be impossible to shoot other players in high-sec. There is plenty of reason why should be able to do it, like faction warfare, doing things that make you suspect like stealing, you should be able to shoot them and take their loot, since they agree to PvP by doing that. But attacking someone illegally, and be able to steal someones loot should NOT be possible in high-sec. There is too many problems with the abuse and bullying it introduces to the game that is just BAD for the game. Illegal (as in Concord illegal/criminal flag) ganking in high-sec should NOT be as insanely lucrative as it is now and it really needs to be fixed once and for all.
@@tobberh Well, you’re completely entitled to have your opinion on that and I can’t fault you for it. I just completely disagree. And that’s ok. 👍 I’ve spent thousands of hours in high sec and in all those years I only felt bullied one time, and afterwards I realized I could have avoided it easily if I understood the game mechanics better. I learned and never made the same mistake again. Bad karma on the guy who bullied a noob but I didn’t cry and quit. Sure, the gate campers in Uedama are annoying but it gives me a chance to go another way through one low sec system and get a little thrill. Anyway, fair winds and clear skies, and may the gankers seek you in vain. o7
I got a laugh out of the "botting in high sec will ruin the game" argument. That is so 2007-2011 thinking. I haven't covered the scene in a couple of years, but the botters moved to null sec and spread into FW low sec because they are like cockroaches and do best where there aren't a lot of people. In high sec there are too many people around willing to report bots. And the ISK they'd make? You know that combined bounties and ESS Main Bank autopayments are the biggest ISK faucet in the game. And back when CCP published such information between 90-95% of bounties were collected in null sec.
The botters went to null because it's currently the safest way to bot. If highsec was 100% safe then they would all move there immediately. Just look at eve echoes, players will farm 100% longer for 50% of the isk if it's perfectly safe. Not only that industry is fucked in EE, lots because there are no haulers being shot at in highsec.
Newbros suggestion: Why not do what I experienced first two times I got shot down as a newbro and what I also do ever since, whenever I kill a newbro. Start a conversation, tell them why, gift em triple their loss in isk and move on. Ccp could do that. If you kill a newbro in a newbro region (not only system), then ccp takes quadruple the loss directly from you and gives the newbro 3/4 of that. Of course only up to certain ship types, so we don’t get an industry of biomassing idiots in bait Orcas.
The real problem isn't the lack of security, it's the people who exploit it. Airport analogy: airport security used to be light... no pat downs, you could bring your family in, etc. Then _one_ attack happened, and now the security is incredible. Where is the response from the federation to the increase in ganking attacks? The height of any security is relative to the threat. The attacks on high-sec is exploitative and it serves the purpose of stunting the growth of the economy. It benefits the CCP, and wealthy players at the expensive of hard working low-level players. The price of capital ships is not affected by people over-mining plagioclase. That kind of over-mining only lowers prices of daily goods, bought up by the little guy. Can't have that, says the wealthy ganker.
Hisec is already 99% safe. Making it 100% safe would do nothing for the game. Carebears don't make videos about introducing Concord in wormholes. Why don't you do the same and let them play how they like? Newbies are safe. They have nothing of value to get ganked for. Other players don't exist for your sole pleasure of killing them.
I agree, high sec shouldn't be 100% safe, but today all gankers use scripts and bots, so if they catch you it's over. CPU vs player, CPU always wins. It is not like 20 players vs 1 player but clones/bots with scripts.
The danger of such lists is that they can never include all possible groups that would be good to include without getting hopelessly bloated and unusable, because there are simply too many corps that could conceivably be a good fit for new players. The variety of gameplay that the game offers, the different space (high, low, null, WH) that groups can be located in, the different timezones that they might be active in - there's just too many variables. I'd recommend a) looking through as much out-of-game content about Eve Online that you can to get a handle on the full variety of corps that exist in the game, b) keep your eyes open in-game for encounters that could give you a lead on specific corps that are active in or around the same areas that you are interested in, c) take part in public NPSI fleets to get in touch with both newer and really, really experienced players, and d) if all else fails (meant as a joke, they are join-worthy no matter what!), join Eve Uni, one of the long-standing explicitly-new-player-focused corps, at least for a while, and use it as a springboard for your next adventure after learning more about the game.
I'm not even a PvP player (as in, I don't go out hunting but I do sometimes do Faction Warfare) and I know being killed can be frustrating (in different degrees depending on the scenario) but that's my point, it's a vital part of the game. Griefing too. Merchant vessels weren't exactly happy with pirates, but that's a part of the EVE experience.
I think you have it wrong. Its a lot safer to grind isk in null sec. I can grind havens as you say "at nauseum" without any reisk to my fancy over blinged ship. When someone comes in local, I dock. In hs you can easily get ganked. Go and see how many CRAB'ing rorquals have been lost recently, can bet there are far less than faction fit HS mission running ships.
Strongly considering starting Eve, I have been watching reviews and it looks crazy good and I do enjoy learning more complex games. It just seems overwhelming to learn how to play, ive read that 3-4 months and you may not realy be caught up. It this true?
No that’s not true at all. However skill training happens in real time so the sooner you start the sooner you can train into cool ships etc. there is actually a free 1 m skill points available if you click on a referral link when you sign up..
all the advert for Eve is from days and years past. the "i was there" campaigne and "this is eve" its all copium to a large degree. if you really want to pay the sub, dont expect to get into any huge fleet fights within 6months to a years. dont think you are gonna be zipping around at 3000m/s in a condor shooting missiles and blowing up cruisers. it is a very slow, and a very very long term game, especially witht he skill training. it gets to the point where any lvl5 skill takes 20 to 34 days to train, so thats 1 subscription for an extra % added on to missiles or torps or railguns or shields or whatever skill.
Your experience will largely depend on your expectations for what will happen within the first day of play, the first week, the first few months. The new player tutorial is actually quite decent these days, and with the Sisters of Eve Epic Arc you can continue with something that neatly follows on after that and has a good amount of isk as a reward. You can't expect to be ready for successful 1v1 PvP action in lowsec already or to immediately get a chance to experience a huge titan fight first-hand, but you *will* have learned enough of the basic gameplay to be able to join a corp and be a useful addition to them as well as join just-for-fun public PvP fleets, of which there are a good number. Where you go after these initial steps is completely up to you. Same with how quickly you want to be able to consider yourself "good" at the game - that can certainly involve reading up a lot of gameplay details and doing deliberate hours of practice in-game, maybe even on the test server for specific encounters.
I would propose the following instead of making hisec safer: - Make a totalsec section for new players, allowing them to learn about the game in a safe environment before they leave that area and join the rest of New Eden. - Make the consequences less severe by making insurance work properly for all ships up to T3, and even implants. Currently insuring anything other than the basic T1 ships is mostly a waste. Allow people to at least recover a fair portion of their loss. Insurance in EVE never worked for as long as I can remember. And being able to insure your clone and implants would be a plus too. But overall I agree with you, hisec can't be completely safe (except maybe a noob starting area). I just think in many cases the consequences are too severe. A less severe loss (with a propper insurance system) would also motivate players to take more risks, which would increase PVP opportunities.
we have that, its called youtube, you can watch thousands of hours of content before you ever grace us with the cowardice it requires to die in a video game from time to time.
To your first point - This already exists, they are known as Rookie Systems. Ganking someone inside those systems is very literally a bannable offence, which they definitely do enforce. To your second point - This would be nice in theory, but in practice people have found ways to game the system by killing their own ships and farming the insurance payouts
I've been playing more than fifteen years. I don't buy ships I've lost, now I have too many to count. I'm still skilling into new ships, still buying rigs, still running missions and mining, and I reprocess salvage that does not give good prices. There is a lot of contradiction in this video, either people are hoarding isk or they're flooding the market? The game mechanic does not break because I'm still buying ships. I hate getting Plex to advance my game, but grinding is too tedious to buy an orca. I've played out in null sec, it was fun for a time, but it is not for me. Eve is many things for many people, we don't have to all play crapshoot.
There's no contradiction at all - neither is mutually exclusive, in fact they kind of integrate. Bounties inject ISK into the economy that did not exist before, whilst also injecting new materials (modules etc). If everyone suddenly is able to have 10bn ISK, and has everything that they want, then stuff in the market stops selling at current price, stocks build up, prices go down as supply outstrips demand. This means people spend less on the market, and earn more through that safe content. Which causes the situation to spiral more. This is why EVE has a dedicated team of economists to watch the markets and work with the Devs to keep it stable with droprates etc. You're also confusing your own experience and anecdotal evidence as the wider likelihood. That's not the case. Most folks do not buy multiple ships. They have a small collection of ones they use. Ergo, they have a ship that they use, it never gets destroyed. Every time they fly it, they increase both the total ISK in the game world, and the total number of modules in the game world. Multiply that out, and you have loads of new ISK that isn't being destroyed, loads of new modules flooding the market (since they're coming in faster than they sell). Even if you assume that everyone would just start collecting ships, what happens when they have them all? Yes, the grind can be hard if you're solo or doing content that's either not lucrative or not enjoyable. And that's also kind of my point. Ask any game designer what the hardest part of their job is and many will respond with a variation of "saving players from themselves". If you create a deeply unfun yet efficient way to earn rewards, many players will do that over and over, burning themselves out and complaining that the game is boring. So, 100% safe Hisec floods the game with ISK, floods the market with modules, removes necessary destruction, and "rewards" players for not engaging with the core design concepts of the game and burning themselves out on content they tire of quickly. EVE is absolutely about the risk. Learn to embrace that and you'll have so much more fun.
As is discarding it as utterly pointless. It did some things fantastically well (and those things have, happily, been introduced over to EVE Online - like the AIR Career Program, Corporation tasks, etc), and it's an excellent showcase of what can go wrong with seemingly subtle changes to core gameplay. We also saw things like all tank modules being moved to low slots, and how that affects balance, alongside the removal of turret/missile hard points etc. Ignoring Echoes misses the opportunity to learn from it.
"I'm gonna go to HiSec and do what those *t*ruckers are doing" - laughed so hard, but it's so true. No idea why people cannot understand this concept. I must commend you on how hard you're trying to get this across - I would have just given up a long time ago. But you're 100% on the mark, full on PVE in HS is a game breaker, and you've just given all the needed evidence...if they still don't get it, they never will. I don't get the complaint anyway. I've been playing for quite a few years, and every now and then I help a new friend getting into EVE, and in my 10+ years, I've maybe been blown up ONCE or TWICE in HS...and I actually MADE money from it, cause it was done by some bored player that just wanted to shoot something, so he lost a more expensive ship, and I looted both HIS and my wrecks, and got all his modules. Yes, I'm being careful in HS, but I've never been blown up in JITA (of all systems) as a new player for any random reason. Yes, if I jump into JITA with an Iteron with 500mil worth of ORE to sell, I'm shaking in my boots, but even in that, they've NEVER shot me down...maybe I'm just lucky, but yeah, in my opinion, it's never been THAT dangerous in HS that I felt that they should make it safer. I personally have ganked new players in LS/NS in belts and exploration systems (and I've been ganked there as well), but with 99% of them, after the gank, I've had a great conversation, given them a few pointers, and even refunded their ships...and that to me is worth MORE to them, since they actually lean to fly safer, and have more fun in risky areas. Keep making great content, we'll be here supporting you all the way :D
When I got my first ship blow in WH space CCP actually checed on me with message that this can be quite tought to handle, so you can see even they try to help out new players...
Haha !! I had that too - it was almost as if I was some kind of Snowflake that needed his Safe Space because he'd lost his ship in a computer game........
I quit Eve online for being nothing more than a griefer's paradise. Anyone who mentions it I warn them off immediately and most don't even try it after that. Word of mouth is still a powerful tool.
So you had a bad experience, and rather than accepting that the game isn't for you, you decided to put your friends off trying something they might enjoy? That sounds reasonable. I don't like cheese but I'm not gonna tell my mates that something they might enjoy sucks just because I don't like it 😂
@@captainbenzie i would rather not my friends waste their time or money on what essentially is a griefer gangs paradies. if your not in the mafia your a target, if you are in the mafia you are targeting someone thats not. then there is null sec and all its drama/politics. then there is wh space where things are simpler but relationships and networking are required. why would i want anyone to risk spending money on such a questional, unreliable investment?
@@snowwann273 Why would you NOT want to risk investing in something that has the potential to lead you to an incredible ongoing experience in a group of dedicated, helpful, friendly, social players? If you are looking to fly around in a spaceship doing this and that, but are not looking for the social aspects of joining a group, learning from each other, doing stuff together, celebrating deserved wins and commiserating over painful ship losses, then there are other games that will fit you better. The reason Eve still exists after 21 years is precisely because of this element of danger, without which these meaningful communities of players would not exist. (And yes, you don't necessarily HAVE to join a corp in Eve if you don't want to, as long as you are still seeing yourself as an active part of the entire community of Eve players. You can feel part of the community when using the wiki to read up on some gameplay mechanic. And maybe in time even editing this or that page to add some useful information. Or going through the latest patch notes and announcement of future changes. Or looking through the calendars of groups organising public fleets to see when there might be an opportunity to take part in something like this. Or talking smack in local chat after witnessing a gank. Or, or, or...)
As a 10 year vet of EVE, one of the main lessons I've learned about New Eden is that the moment you think you're good at the game, the moment you think you have it all figured out, is the precise moment that the game will dumpster you. Be humble at all times and fly dangerous. o7
could not agree more, and this is what makes the game so great!
Live by the sword, die by the sword. The greater the risk, the greater the losses. If that is fun for you then you are in the right place. If not, then you need to figure out how to play safely. It's not rocket science, though in a way it is here. Don't be an easy target, learn about the scams, stay away from suspects. Some people learn, some just choose a different path.
I am in 100% agreement with you, for the market to remain healthy you must have entropy, something has to balance out the creation with destruction. On the slippery slope argument while that is considered a logical fallacy when you have a demonstrable history of the thing happening, fallacy or not it doesn't change that you are correct.
Exactly this!
highsec is pretty safe, if you not want to get into trouble, don;t hang in Jita! or other hight traffic places, just like IRL, if you want to be in peace, don't live downtown. i don;t really know what the fuzz is about..
also CCP made it a bannable offence attacking/ganking newbies in those school systems, so this is already in place for the reasons stated. eveyone is so horny about going to Jita every 6 minutes, what about instead support the locality you live in, everything i produce i sell locally. supporting the area i live in. just like IRL ...
if i shoot someone thats 2 days old, i immideatly talk to them and give them a new ship (in fact i have ready fit ships in a station just for this porpose alone) but in my experience, those are NOT the people makeing the drama, the ones do make the drama about "highsec should be safe" are the ones that play the game for years, but refusing to interact with the envioment.
Maybe there should be a high tax for using a trade hub that isn't your own empires' hub. I'm pretty sure there are additional costs for me, and American, to go over to France and start selling things.
@ryelor123 this ^^. The other 3 high sec hubs are kinda dead now. Amarr is somewhat going on, but the prices there are like Dubai tourist prices.
@@zobayer1 well SRS made sure of that LoL
@@ryelor123 Not if you are Chinese, the CCP subsidize shipping costs !
IRL ?
Internet Relay Language ?
It's Real Lunacy ?
I Remember Louisiana ?
Indian Rugby League ?
Have finally taken the plunge at 40 years of age and bought a gaming laptop. Will be finally be able to play eve online and after the junk that was eve mobile am looking forward to join the community
Welcome home!!
Your explanation for inflaction is spot on, never understood in full. Thanks for that!
Glad to hear! 🚀
My only complaint with the hisec gank situation is the gate campers.... I use gate check, but it has let me down more than once. I dont think any one would disagree that being targeted and basically one shot the very second you decloak off the gate sucks. The way hisec currently works, even when I fly with escorts, you cannot defend yourself from gankers. Im not saying change the hisec mechanics per se, but maybe make the gates in 1.0 systems a tad bit safer. Catch me between gates....make it more of cat and mouse. Not "you checked the gate, flew a scout ahead, brought an escort. Still get your freighter locked and popped immediately after decloaking in a 1.0 system." And I really do mean the moment you click jump. Seriously, how?
Wrecks from ships being shot illegally (criminal flag/Concorded) should only be lootable by the victim in high-sec, there I fixed it. To me that would remedy the only thing I think is broken in the game.
There are players in Eve who do as you suggest. Right after I started playing, I was in a place I arguably should not have been for my skill level. Another player landed on grid and "ganked" me before I realized what was happening. He immediately initiated a conversation with me, explained to me how he was able to easily hunt me down, offered suggestions on what I could do to help prevent it from happening again, suggested I join the Eve University corporation, and paid to replace my ship. I will never forget his kindness. Needless to say, I didn't quit the game.
Oh, I know some do! But the ones who do, tend not to be the ones complaining that Hisec needs to be safer 😉
The argument is silly and moot. The bottom line is, you are never completely safe in Eve, except maybe while docked in a NPC station and even then, you may be subject to some type of scam to get your ISK. That’s the fun and thrill of it. If your fun is griefing newbies in starter areas, you’re a dick. Pick on someone your own size who can fight back.
"ganking" means somebody killed you in high-sec and then concord killed them
@@eduard2113 no, it doesn't. Ganking is a term that exists outside of the context of EVE. Ganking simply means "surprise PvP" - you're busy doing something else and then someone suddenly attacks.
@@eduard2113 You are correct. I should said “blapped”.
One thought I had was it would be nice if ganking on a Hi-Sec gate by players is not allowed but perhaps NPCs can - changes the dynamic a little bit but does not go to the lengths of Eve Echoes.
Maybe even have NPCs randomly attack stations. That way people could experience combat in a sort-of realistic way. Imagine if randomly some small fleet of NPCs would attack a trade hub and CONCORD ships. You usually wouldn't get targeted unless you fired on the rats.
It would add some random events to the gameplay but would it really do anything. With the amount of combat ships passing through everywhere those gate rats wouldent be alive more then 1 min at most depending on there strenght ofc. It wouldent make mutch sense becouse all H-sec gates has gate guns and NPC ships protecting the gates. Are those just suppose to ignore pirate rats attacking ships or do they disappear. In a way the game already have this system and i learned that the hard way with the Triglavians. I lost a Dominix doing missions jumping in and out of 1 Triglavian controlled system thinking that Neutral standing was enough for them not to attack me. I was very wrong.
@@ryelor123 There are some pirate incursions that have been happening for a while where a pirate faction places a structure (or two or three) at a safe spot and fleets of miners go mine and roaming bands do attack player structures with varying degrees of effort. Not the current new "system is a pirate affected" thing but a part of the PvE setup. If a player warps into a belt their mining fleet will warp away and their defense fleet will aggressively go after players in the belts while roaming small gangs will engage players and call in reinforcements elsewhere in the system. Some of these npcs will point your ship to prevent escape etc and have a much better AI than old style belt rats.. This goes on in the affected system until their structures are scanned down and destroyed. Like the Trig invasion a lot of afk mining ships went boom when this was initially introduced. Also Trigs still do this in some Trig affected systems where the wormholes to Trig space spawn if I recall correctly.
I lead a corp in game! My WHOLE THING is helping people learn the game (Hell i'm learning too - we all are - I use benzies videos to show the people things all the time, very good information all the time!!) If you want a home let me know - Rhed XIII :) I just want everyone to be happy and have fun in eve - if they find their fun then they will stay longer and thrive!
Yeah gankers are the most affected by risk versus reward. The game is very unbalanced against them. Catalysts are too expensive, Right? They cost too much...
We should make catalysts cheaper and camping gates easier, it's already a very active complex PVP now, very hard. Even harder than killing the targets is sending e-mails or typing in local when you alpha someone.
The problem I see here is that too many NS veterans like to gank so they justify their bad game mechanics to keep being on the "elite player" group. And putting down valid arguments agaist it as weak whiny players.
(I have more detailed explanation on why I dislike ganking on the other video.)
Alright now that I have made any statements against ganking, just type: "lol, link the killboard"
I'm neither a Nullsec veteran nor a pvper. I just understand how this game works. Instead of crying "boohoo, a bunch of idiots in cheap ships beat my ass, the game must be at fault" why not ask yourself why you died to a bunch of idiots?
I've been playing EVE since 2012. I'm a PvE player, but I enjoy huffing, abyssals, hauling... I've never once lost a ship to a Catalyst, let alone a fleet of them. In fact, it's rare that I lose ships - to the point that (as I've talked about before) I often take my Prowler or Mastodon out on long trips, laden with expensive stuff, just to act as a loot piñata if someone can actually catch me.
Instead of crying that the game (that has lasted for twenty one years) is broken, maybe ask yourself what you could do better to survive?
@@captainbenzie man you really are just the unicorn of players arnt you?
we been playing the same amount of time and experiences are very different and im a PvE player PUSHED into PvP as a means to survive because i didnt have the skills to deal with the war decs or the gankers i just wanted to mine cool space rock that made me a piddly sad amount of isk so i could go from a bantam to a osprey. then some month down the road, i could have a mining barge for the low low cost of 35mil just for the hull. but then i was a target!
so then later i joined goons and got robbed and kicked out like the hundreds of other people did in the huge robbery.
now with trust issues and just 90mil and about 56mil in SP, there wasnt much i could do but return to high sec especially since i was a former goon member.
I STILL get people messaging me for my location just to blow me up for being a goon.
its not the games fault that sociopathic, manic players that have some scraps of digital cash are allowed to run rampant and force a narrative on a sandbox game. it just the player bases fault for letting such ideals run rampant and unchecked.
yall cry about the econamy and try to equiate it to real world issues but ur not clocking into a shift at McDonalds in Eve for a flat specific pay rate.
no we are try to play a game we paied to have access to and now some no life sweat is restricting that because him and his "friends" are gate camping some random sector because they want that kill mail. cats are as cheap as rocks and it cost sand to fit them. losing them has no impact on the econamy or the market but what they blow up does, what they target they do effect because that person they are targeting is not them.
its either pay to live under the gankers rule in high-sec, participate in the inmature soap opera that is null sec because words actually hurt out there not actions.
or be a weirdo thats scetched out and live in a wormwhole and hopefully make some friends and run a successful POS.
there is no " im a PvE player" you either paid the gankers, are an influencer so they dont mess with you or are secretly one of them.
or
a tool that is in every roam and fight in nullsec
or
simply trying to play the game and enjoy what it has to offer that is worth the engaging by living in a wormhole space.
or
try to find some quite, low traffic, barely touched high-sec spot that doest route through one of the gank pipes to jita or any of the other trade systems.
you could add more fun PVE content to rotate ships like free filiments ect , this would create a "isk sink"
Agree with most of the talking points here, much of it aligned with the platform I ran on for CSM a few times years ago when CCP was nerfing and re-nerfing hi-sec. If I recall correctly switching the ability to engage in starter systems was rejected but going after new players in starter systems became punishable against older accounts.
As an extra thing to look up if you want there was a study done internally by CCP when they were seriously considering banning ganking in hi-sec the outcome of which was learning that players who were ganked while relatively new had a higher retention rate than those left alone because they experienced the risk and loss. This study was done way prior to the alpha/omega system being added for players.
Just my opinion but the players who want risk free hi-sec do so so they can have risk free ISK which, as you point out, is a bad idea. To me those players are trying to meta the game to the point where they can safely pursue risk free ISK and *win* etc which I think is a disservice that could do nothing more than hurt the game in the long run.
Exactly right at the end there. I wasn't aware of that study though! I need to find that and take a read!
@@captainbenzie Suggest starting with looking in the old archived BBS that CCP used before the current setup.
@@pcpproduction9071 thank you
First view! Woohoo! New to Eve, you have been unbelievably helpful, so thank you! Hope to see you in New Eden!
Ahoy and congratulations!!
May I ask how long you have been playing and what it's like? It looks great but looks extremely hard to learn/ time intensive.
I am sorry but i simply don't agree with most of what u just said. I am really not disagreeing for the sake of it, but most of the points u said can be fixed even if high sec was total sec:
1) If new people leave the game after loosing their ship immediately then this game is not for them? Simply no. those people did not have the chance to explore the game's aspects to judge if they like it or not. Simple example in martial arts: if u tell a new guy that throughout his journey he might come out with broken bones, ribs, or even permanent injuries do u think they will stay excited and keep going on or are they simply going to leave and never comeback? They are simply not used to this life yet. If u give them time however and let them climb the ladder slowly step by step ( Feel increasing pain slowly, experience things to discover that they can actually handle them and that they are not as painful as they seemed to be in the past,...) then after getting their feet wet they see martial arts from a completely different POV. Same for EVE. Being greeted by ppl who will blow ur ship just for the sake of it does not reflect the reality of EVE in any way. its just a big load placed on the back of newcomers.
2) if ppl spend the time in total sec doing missions, then they will simply build up ISK and drive the price of modules down:
Simple Fix is to make rats not drop any modules (just like drones in null sec ratting) and make the reward for completing missions and killing rats barely anything high enough to allow a newcomer to fly a T1 destroyer in a few days. Surely ppl will have a way to generate ISK constantly without risk or loss, but if it is going to take me one day of ratting in total sec to barely make 1M isk then it is simply not worth it for experienced players or even Botters. Also CCP can simply put gates to restrict access to mission sites to not allow battleships or any ship that is not considered a starter ship to pass in.
3) Total sec allows for more Botting: I mean Null sec has far more botters even tho it is supposed to be the least safe place?? low sec has botters, high sec has botters. Botting is really a problem related to players and CCP. Players abuse mechanics and CCP Allows it while rarely doing anything about it... Botters exist with or without Total security and thei existence is very remarkable.
*** I am not Saying the High sec should be entirely Total sec. Even i dont agree with this. But this does not mean that CCP cannot create a safe starting environment for new players to get their feet wet. Maybe 3-4 systems that are total sec with very minimal rewarding activities. They would serve as an introduction to EVE and would host most of EVE's activities with barely any rewarding ISK. And as a final note: You simply cannot make the argument that people will have a way to farm content with no risk and that they dont have a life therefore. EVE is a sandbox. people are free to play it like they want. if i decide to keep running missions in a total security environment for days and barely get the price of my ship in return the i am totally free to do it. You cannot oblige ppl to play the way you think is better. They are free to do what they want if ISK is not their priority. once they start to need ISK then they will be obliged to leave the tutorial area( Total sec) and dive deeper into High/low/null/Pochven/WH,...
My issue isn't whether high sec should be "safe" or not, it's that the reputation system and the mechanics of suicide ganking in high sec is hot garbage.
Nope...what is hot garbage is the inability to look at local and to use D-scan. If you can't use a tool like the in game map or a third party site like Gate Camp Check then you really should move on to WOW.
@@tituscromwell8432 None of that is relevant to the point that the rep system is a joke and suicide ganking is a dumb consequence of CCP's bad highsec system.
@@chadnine3432 Well apart from avoiding getting ganked in the first place you clown...
@@chadnine3432 No, avoiding getting ganked in the first place is entirely the point! You got ganked because you were lazy, incompetent or both. That's all on you, not CCP, Benzie, me or anybody else, and its been like this for 21 years.
@@tituscromwell8432 that is a garbage ass take right there. nobody should have to look at 3rd party out of game sites or guides just to avoid losing assests simply from playing the stupid game.
D-scan was for sites not and anoms not to see if someone is lag switching in system as they rush in to gank someone before they register in local.
Fully agree regarding hisec 'security'. To me the connection between fully secure areas with market influence and a broken economy is very direct, not a slippery slope. There isn't much of a gray are imho.
Regarding new player systems, it is already a bannable offense to gank in the starter systems.
Hisec is already quite a bit safer, since certain modules aren't usable. More or less all combat related AOE effects are unusable, no bubbles, bombs, etc. This makes certain forms of travel, particularly in small ships a lot easier and safer as long as you don't autopilot through Udema.
Correction: smartbombs can be used, but are increadibly east to get yourself concorded.
Been playing eve since it came out. I have held the belief that concord should do what most Legal systems do(or try to do). Make you pay for what you destroy and maybe a little jail time.
Since 2011 the only ships I have lost in high sec and have been to PVE or corp wars. I've been dropped in on my Marauders during l4 missions four times in 13 years. I lived in nullsec as part of a rather large operation and died at least twice a week.
Exactly my arguement for why high sec should never be nerfed of value.
I agree hi-sec should not be safe, however the actual example of the airport security doesn't work for abyssal runners. They have had to give everything to security (belts, shoes, etc) and while in the scanner there are 10 people with guns drawn waiting for them to exit. The police is just standing there waiting for it to happen, they allow folks with drawn guns to just point and wait.
That should not be possible imho, more effort should be put by the aggressors to make the playing field more fair.
For ganking travellers, etc, etc I'm all for it, there are enough options which make that extremely safe with the right prep. Meaning there is a actual valid counter if both sites put time into it.
Benzie I normally agree with you but on this i cannot and will not. Its actually an aspect I HATE with the game. You do make some points and the botters are scum. Lol looking at the length of my reply it looks like I became like benzie with it lol.
HOWEVER, If I have had a long day of work, I should be able to relax in a game that I am PAYING to play, I should be able to do that without getting harassed and griefed. I dont expect to get rich but I should be able to relax, play and have fun for a game im paying for. If I want to make more, I need to take more risks by going into low sec/null/wh. I should be able to run l4 missions without being harassed.
Its actually an aspect that elite dangerous got right. I could login in solo or private modes with corp mates when i wanted to relax or I could go open when I wanted more. However it did make the game empty in addition to frontiers screwed up management of the game. It had potential that tanked because of them.
I started playing eve in 2006. then ccp tanked the market when they introduced the drone regions. I couldnt afford to fund my miners while those with combat skills were getting the same minerals I was with having dedicated skills that didnt translate to anything else. I sold my toons and quit the game. Then in 2009ish friends said they were interested in eve and asked if I would play with them. We were all starting from scratch. I made sure they didnt do anything to draw attention out us, harass others or do anything against others. I was hauling trash in a bestower to make isk. within a few weeks we had a griefer in an inty war dec us (back before structures were needed to be war decced) after 3 weeks of constant harassment and not being able to do anything in the game because our low character skills didnt allow us to counter this older player, I purchased my main toon, a rapier pilot. I surprised him, caught him and killed him. He finally let the war dec lapse because he could no longer bully newbies. However the damage was done and most of my friends quit the game and I was left looking for a new home. I then got collecting characters.
After a couple years I was ice mining in stain null with 12 accounts dual rorqs ten maxed exhumers. I had 2 jump freighters. I was playing 12-20 hours a day on my days off. I was helping my corp mates with always keeping them supplied with things they needed from jita as I was making trips 3-5 days a week. However it became too much work as I was having to mine for 2 weeks to pay for my accounts for a month. Not to mention the risks to the assets I had on the field. I downsized to 7 then 5 accounts and am so much happier. The 3-5 accounts seems to be a happy medium.
I actually left a recent corp because they had a mouthy disrespectful -9.8 sec status ganker in it. He loved to boast and harass people in empire. He was getting more to do it and bringing in others to do it with him. The corp allowed it. I could not be associated with scum like that and his lack of character because his actions reflected on the corp, and therefore everyone in it.
24:00 On this I can agree with you. Sadly though there are too many that love to bully others and get on a power trip or think that because its online or a game they can do whatever they want and act any way they want. There needs to be more players and corps with a respectful ethos. Sadly its seems rarer and rarer anymore to the point you cant help but notice it when you see it. Its important to be a person of character, everywhere you go including online and gaming.
I understand where you're coming from, but that's also a misunderstanding, I think, that you should be able to come home and relax with a game you paid for. I get the principle, but... It's not logical. You knew what EVE was, before paying for it, so to demand it be something else just doesn't make sense.
It's like booking a day of Paintball, getting there, and then asking the staff if they can instead do a spa day, something more relaxing, because you're tired and heck, you paid for the Paintball right so...?
I don't mean to be dismissive here, btw. I'm not good at typing 😅
I actually detest that Elite Dangerous let's you do this. You get into danger, so you log off and continue offline alone. So what's the point?
This brings me back to my points about EVE in the other video. EVE is a niche game, and that's fine. It's a PVP game at its heart, and that destruction is NECESSARY for the game. It's also necessary for the players to profit - the trick is making sure that other people are the ones being destroyed.
I'd also say that you've kind of set yourself up. You've made EVE a job, by having multiple accounts and choosing to only PLEX them. Of course you're going to get stressed out at that. It's why I have no desire to multibox, personally, and why I choose to pay for Omega. It allows me to engage with the game on my own terms.
@@captainbenzie I agree with elite dangerous. It really wasnt dangerous at all lol. There were aspects I liked and others I didnt. Same with eve. I HATE all the catering to the gankers and how they can enter missions to grief you yet you cant do anything about it. Sadly theres no other game like eve with the good aspects with its depth and variety which is why I keep getting sucked back into it.
I still think that ccp needs to come up with something for the casual players, or for times like now where its 3am, I'm tired and I want to relax and play vs ship spin.
yes plexing 12 accounts became like a job and the stress of it. it took the fun out of it. its why i downsized as in reality I make more with fewer accounts because Im not needing crazy isk to plex all these others (especially with the hugely inflated plex prices atm) but at times due to finances plexing the game was the only option at times. Its why I opted to try to avoid doing that when I came back. I do hope to plex my accounts and I would love to build up a years subscription time from plexing.
However its not a priority atm. Currently the priority is to find a decent corp to have fun with and grow with. finding a decent corp is more work than plexing 12 accounts lol.
@@captainbenzie that's a really bad analogy and you are completly wrong. Eve is not just ONE thing, just because YOU like to play it your way. The cool thing about Eve is that there is so many ways to play it and have fun in very different ways. I have always played at lot solo in the game and enjoyed it a lot. Sometimes it's chilling in an astroroid field and mining, sometimes playing with others, and I can't see why some aspects of the game can't be allowed to be relaxing.
Also a lot of your ranting about the market prices are completely wrong. Most stuff that gets destroyed and driving the resource gathering, production and market is NOT a couple of players loosing ships in high-sec. It's NULL sec alliance wars, low-sec pirates/faction wayfare and Wormhole fights. And none of that will all of a sudden stop happening just because you fix people being able to grief and harrass other players in high-sec. That's just bullshit and you know it.
@@tobberhthe game isn't just one thing like you said, but it's not even many things and all are valid. That might be how we like to look at it, but it's just objectively true that it's one thing way more than anything else.....and that one thing is...Pve.
The vast majority of time people spend in eve is Pve, I don't even get where people are so smug about claiming it's a PVP game. Their argument should be used again them, they are ruining this objectively Pve game with too much PVP.
The fact they have made it where you for sure die if you break the high sec GAME RULE, you will need a second account to collect the loot, you will only get half of the loot, etc etc...
That's one thing they get right where they say high sec ganking is actually a pain and really hard for them... Ignoring that all the reason it's like that is because the game design is trying to stop it by making it worse and worse...while they proclaim Pve players are doing it wrong.
@@captainbenzie and while that is on YOUR own terms its not everybody's terms. its not on the terms of the people that do get harrassed and ganked into quitting because The New Order has no real control and their people are and can be rediculusly toxic.
its not even just them, its just random Joes that simpyl feel like it because they know they can get away with it.
they can hunt people across the entire verse and kill them because there is simply no where safe from someone that doesnt care anymore.
i dont even think you could imagine losing everything just because a small gang of gankers didnt like that you ignored them and they follow you for 28 jump across system only to blow up what little you have removing any way and means to make isk.
then what the hell is the point?
always at the mercey of some cock off waiting in a cat.
some no lifer that has hundred of gank cats to be used anywhere in high-sec. its no cost to him thats for sure and its really just nothing to the econamy for hundreds to thousands of cats to blow up. so it doesnt strain the market or the econamy or industry.
for the ganker its like, going outside and picking up rocks to throw at passing cars. they are basically free.
but that car is not.
I could see completely safe starting areas for players with completely free ships too, but Everything earned in the starting areas is only available in the starting areas.
Since corvettes are free i could also see upgradable corvettes.
Veteran players on EVE: Don't be in Highsec, Null is safer.
New Player on EVE: Applies to 5-6 Nullsec Corps is denied for undisclosed reasons. Tries mining in Nullsec anyways gets smoked. Goes back to Highsec gets smoked.
It's easy to get lost in the crowd in those corps or be labelled a spy (that's the undisclosed reason usually), it's better to start out small with people who are actually willing to help you, and a frankly staggering amount of people will literally fall over each other to do just that. It's not like you have to stay in one corp forever, start small and work your way up.
@@memitim171 Any suggestions would be appreciated. Primarily a miner with a little lowsec EWAR experience
@@rcharboneau8782 Try EVE-UNI, once you've learnt some stuff they'll hook you up with a good corp.
@@rcharboneau8782 Try eve uni, they will teach you some stuff and then hook you up with a corp that fits your interests.
@@rcharboneau8782 try death before dishonor corp
I enjoy the fact that my training finally Has me becoming a tough target. I was mining in a .09 system and was Ganked by 4 Cormorants Blaster Fit 2 had tech 2 guns and 2 didn't. I didn't even have armor or shield modules I know they had tech 2 guns because I picked them up after Concord Blew them up. So now all my miners have tons of tank and I am Actually completely safe because it will take more Isk to take me down than they will get if they succeed. So I am good with eve the way it is. if you keep getting killed get better. It has taken me 2 years but almost all my armor and shield skills are trained all the way up. It really makes a difference. I can fly the Zelot Haven't goten 1 yet very expensive for my Abyssal Ret to bring in the money for, and I keep giving a lot away to teach new crew mates to fly in the abyss.
I've only died 14 times in 19 years.
the funny thing is they will still gank you with more stuff even if the "cost" exceeds your ship/kill mail value. they do not care, you do not have a permit. you exsist in their game not yours. you are bascially just a shiny npc to them.
@@snowwann273 The fact that they know the difference between you and an npc is he difference between playing a game and being a bully.
@@Winkkin that's what I mean we ate just shiny NPCs to them. If you are not them then you are a NPC to kill and loot.
@@snowwann273 I guess thats just re-inforces the idea that theres a 'safer' hi-sec is bogus, or maybe its that the pilots that hunt in hi-sec are bullies.
I agree, It is High Security, not Immunity.
Exactly
I remember my first ship that I built, a mammoth, was blown up on its first undock. Never even got to warp ever. I was so damn mad. I was alpha so it took a while. I decided to go stay in nullsec as a t6 alpha, lol
i had the privilege to talk with princess Aiko and i can say that her majesty is a great ruler that have the best interest of the people of new eden in her heart , i find funny that people that don't know much about the game think they know better than blessed figures like her majesty
Captain I agree with almost everything you say. I would like to throw in one caveat. This involves highsec suicide ganking in corvettes. I have seen it happen to several players including myself that a fleet of 25 or so free corvettes come in to gank a miner. Perhaps they did have
guns that they bought, but I dont think so. In my case, they did have one cheap tackler, That flew off before Concord could hit it. I do not have a problem with the ganking itself. I just believe doing it in free corvettes is a problem. They need to risk some isk if they're going to enjoy that content.
The story can be flipped too. Why were you still there when any ship warped onto you? 😅 I know it sucks, but this is part of the learning experience of EVE
@@captainbenzieIn this particular case, it was that the system I was in was quite busy. If I warped out every time somebody got within 7AU of me, I would never be able to mine a thing. But truthfully that is my problem. However, it seems to me that you approve of people ganking in completely free ships? Or do I misread you? Im not saying reduce the risk in hisec. I am saying increase the risk for those that do the suicide ganking.
As an aside, That was over a year ago and it hasn't happened to me since.
I just don't like the principle of being able to gank with no risk. Other than a criminal timer that nobody cares about.
One last point. When they get their corvettes blapped by concord I cannot build more corvettes to sell them. If they were doing it in rifters I would have no complaints.
@@coryjohnson7025 yes, I have no issue with folks ganking in corvettes. It requires quite the fleet and thus setup, and a well fit industrial should be able to tank that little damage for quite a while. Alternatively, as you say, a quieter system can be beneficial (as can setting to red anyone or corp you know participates in ganking).
It sucks to have it happen, but I believe it's valid and is a learning opportunity. Same as the first time I jumped a "helpless Heron" in my Sabre, only to find it was a ludicrous fit with Medium Ancillary Shield Boosters and rockets. And it kicked my ass 😂
@@captainbenzieAlthough I still disagree with you, you do make some valid points.
In any case I go out in either an Orca or a Skiff in those areas where I know it might happen. So I don't worry. And just so you don't think that I'm a carebear talking here, on occasion I do hunt in low and nullsec. o7
@@captainbenzie or one guy running 8 accounts and botting the real problem with ganking in high sec is that is just demonstrates what a POS you are. If you enjoy ruing the enjoyment of others you are not to be trusted ever.
If a target dies from NPC police in highsec, anyone they received a killmail for should be the only party able to retrieve loot from said wreck. Only the ganked party can retrieve their loot. Edit: This could manifest as the wreck is only accessible to the victim, or the drops are sent to asset safety and retrieved as a price (another ISK sink), or any other creative solution.
Yes, you should be able to gank and work around these rules. Yes, the ganked party is still at a loss for having lost a hull, and in effect, has lost ISK/progress/time, for having done something 'risky'.
No, it should not be profitable. The moment it's profitable, it is inherently incentivized. You are in effect telling players who want to grief other players, and often times with little to no options to counter said griefing, that we 'want' you to do this.
I'm perfectly okay with the current mechanics existing outside hisec. It should be lawless and unforgiving. However, we already acknowledge that certain areas of hisec, starter systems for instance, carry heavier consequences for lawless actions. There should be much higher consequences for lawless actions inside high security space. If you want to gank in hisec, sure, do it. But it should not be profitable.
The only ganking in hisec that should be tolerated is when the target is a "strategic objective", not ISK.
The current system doesn't even reflect how humanity has acted historically. Police don't show up to a crime, stop the threat, and then allow them to walk away with someone else's property.
Edit: Love your content btw Benzie, you're doing good stuff, I just disagree with you on this topic. Keep up the good work.
This would essentially stop anyone ganking in Hisec and thus create the exact Totalsec I'm talking about
@@captainbenzie the idea of security having different tiers is the idea that there are tiers of players, and tiers of content. The current system actively encourages the highest tier players to feed on the bottom tier players, and this is incentivized by being more profitable than almost all other content available within the same space.
You can still choose to gank. This mechanic would NOT inherently prevent ganking from happening. It would simply disincentives doing it outside of strategic reasons. This is not totalsec. The option still exists. You are simply not allowing bad-actors a profitable way to grief. They can still farm their killmails. They can still stop people from moving resources from A to B. They are allowed the option to gank the same player at the wreck trying to retrieve their loot for *strategic* reasons. Both parties lose here but at *stategic* interest. You are still able to make the activities the ganked party was doing carry risk of being ganked, and at a loss to themselves It is not total loss for victim, total profit for perpetrator as it currently is.
It should NOT be incentivized. That's not how humanity works. That's why it's so frustrating for new players. The barrier to entry is too high. Ganking drives away the very prey the gankers want. This mechanic would not inherently create totalsec. It deters bad-actors. Bad-actors deter players.
"big number go up, monkey brain happy" can also apply to gankers who are profiting off. Gankers are flooding the market the very same loot you accuse the farmers of flooding the market with.
You also make the argument that the "players who want to actually play the sodding game" can't plex their accounts if ganking is prevented. This idea also inherently suggests that the ganked players don't want to play.... Huh? Perhaps these victims would want to play the sodding game if they weren't on unequal footing in what is suppose to be the least profitable, grindiest, and safest area they can inhabit.
Isnt it kind of already that way ? Isn't that why people have to run a second account for looting the wrecks to avoid the criminal mechanic entirely?
They already did what they could to police high sec I think. It's turned into a suicide gank in a matter of seconds that you need multiple accounts to avoid the mechanics meant to stop you....yet people still wanna do that instead of go pvp.
@@captainbenzie There are plenty of people that gank miners just for lols.
@@captainbenzie People could still do it out of spite to destroy stuff. There should be a security rating that can't go up that every player has applied. Basically a social credit score but one that takes a long time to go down to the point of being permanently barred from 1.0 sec places.
Hey, I have an idea of something that would be a fun mechanic. Make a realistic module that you can buy for your pod that detonates a powerful explosion if someone pods you. It would be expensive but would take out most attacking ships. You know the saying about not undocking with something you can't afford to lose, well, make it work in both directions. That way PVP players don't get 100% security if they invest 1B in a ship and years in training. This is how it would be in real life. Spending 500,000,000 - 1B to punish a ganker would be pretty funny.
Unrelated question: do skills that improve by x% compound or do they just add that % to the Initial stat? Thanks
They add to the original stat.
@@captainbenzie oh no.. I wish they compounded just like my ETFs do :)
Hisec shoud not be safe - but repeat offenders should have a progressively longer criminal status (within that faction) so you cannot camp a station or gate full days for months on end.
So, make the criminal status 15 mins - but make repeat offenses double that time for each offence for say 30 days running (could be security status dependent)
15 mins, 30 mins, 1 hour, 2h, 4h, 8h, etc.
do something similar with the suspect status
nowhere will be completely safe, gankers would need to be less active in a single area
Intriguing idea 🤔
I wholeheartedly agree with you captain. And I also agree that something like a voucher system for a few ships sounds amazing. As a newer player myself that came from eve echoes I too remember watching the market crash. I was a null sec industrialist and one of the main reasons I fell away from echoes was the plummeting market and my skills becoming all but worthless.
I truly lament state of echoes it started so high and fell so fast. "The bigger they are" right?
Another great "low effort" piece hahaha I joke really. Love the vids keep them coming. Great to listen to in the background at work.
Yeah, Echoes fall was such a shame. Glad you're enjoying though!
The time gates in games are not there to save people from themselves. They are there to incentivise people to buy the premium corrency, or be forced to grind for many hours to get what you want.
The time gates existed before the premium currency AND long before Skill Injectors. I therefore have to disagree.
Yup, helping, ISK for kill did happen to me. Good tips there, Elrond, good tips. Keep up the good work and cheers Mate
Thank you
I seem to remember him already talking about this topic some time ago. Maybe it was around Eve Echoes or i´m just confusing channels here.
The token thing is an intresting ide however right away i saw a massive loophole that most ppl could exploit especially the market traders and the industrial players would exploit this right after the servers went back up. What if a player makes a Catalyst and another player uses this new token to buy the ship, dosent sound like a problem untill u realise that the player selling the ship priced it a 50billion ISK and the player buying it was a fresh alt from the player selling the ship. I like the token ide but there would need to be a clear hardcap on how mutch u could spend by using 1 token. It needs to be a fixed price point becouse if it maybe be based on the average market price u know some rich guy gonna buy up the entire market supply and then list 1 extreme overpriced item and then buy that using a token from a fresh account.
I played this game quite a bit now... I like to engage pvp solo and in froup as well as hauling alot of tuff from and to jita and I only been ganked in hs once: my alt was carry g a large skill injector from perimeter to jita. Tha is the one and only time I been ganked in hs and was 100% preventable ad huge risck from my part
Greets. Listening and wanna comment on your comment, comment by comment :)
one should not use real life situations to compare to a game situations. If you Have to, then at least Try your best to compare apples to apples. Meaning in Eve, you suicide gank you lose your ship and security status. In real life you suicide gank, you die (i.e. suicide bomber) there is no waking up in a station there is death, or if you survive something like that, most likely prison for life for those High security areas. To look at it from a game perspective. first off, there is no death. so lets change all the weapons of the world to LTL (less than lethal) now if you go about ganking the most you will lose is your gun and some time/fine as the cops process your crime.
Nothing to be replaced? so did Eve Echoes have all ships and modules and whatnot all for just like 1 isk? Mind you I totally understand the concept how destruction is one of the many fuels of economic growth, But unless eve Echoes only had total safety PVE players. supply and demand. Also big number go up monkey brain be happy, I laughed. but you are an ass :)
Now the comment about infinite Isk and Plex going to a billion isk. . . Worriedly look at those 30 + multi boxer that's on this moon and he plexes it ALL. but then again Supply and demand. but I did shudder.
Corporations. . . You have seen the Pic of the Eve interview :) Also, the fact that some of the biggest player changes has come from "spies"
Also Low effort Filler content. Really got your goat. Almost sounds like he Ganked your podcase! :D
Remember Eve TH-cam content creation is a niche thing, it's not for everyone. especially thin skinned players :D
chadnine3432 lul
Ooh, I just got an idea that wouldn't even require new player starting areas to be "hacked" like this.
The systems should be tiny, easy to defend by CONCORD, like one planet, one jump gate, tucked away safely near a trade hub. CONCORD would have like ridiculous response time, assets and firepower. You could easily make an argument that The Academy (of whatever faction) is the most valuable asset for the military to protect.
(I'm making this comment at 20:07 in case you suggested it later in the video)
On a completely different and completely unrelated note - we all know one big first world country that has a serious problem with security on school grounds. That's high-sec, right?
Agree with you Captain the getting into a corp needs to be streamlined alot more the way it is now is not helping new players
Love this Video. You said everything.👏👏👏👏
Thank you!
Woot…official member of the Cartel.
Congratulations!!!
Agree, I've played this game for 5 years as a miner barge i experience being gank by suicide catalyst destroyers, in high sec later i found out that because my corps is always at war for resources, competition and hegemony against other corps, the enemy start attacking our mining area and it is very annoying.
We called them "Suicides lunatics" or jihadist.
I was thinking of starting a Corp called "Gankers R Us"
Heh, loved the good old reason for bot waves.
There is actually more to it, a problem with banning bot's on the spot is that you tell them exactly how, why and where they get banned.
You don't really want that.
Yeah, I said that 😉
An argument can be made that if the answer to those questions is "Because we saw you botting" "Because you were botting" and "Everywhere" the problem would be solved, it really just comes down to money, which is understandable, but not particularly satisfying.
Thanks for another great video Benzie, could listen to you talk all day haha - you’re like a North Star for eve online
Wow, thanks!
Another solution for new players is insurance, not the current crap insurance (which used to a LOT better.) Perhaps players who are less than a month old or maybe have less than X skill points can have insurance that REALLY pays out to cover costs. For the rest of us we get the crap insurance (that is barely worth it) that we have now.
This has been bandied around before and is a bad idea as it's ISK printing.
@@captainbenzie Really, for a limited time and you don't get it all back, maybe 80% back. So each kill is still a loss. Also don't see how it is ISK Printing, you have to have bought the ship in the first place and paid the insurance fee. Obviously it does not apply to any free stuff you get.
👍The game is fine. Tears are salty. Fun fact, back in the day, I had a friend who rage quit because he lost his golem to gankers. It was a sight to see.
Haha, I've lost three at this point, plus quite a few other very expensive ships 😅
@@captainbenzie Yeah! The implants in my head are worth more than a marauder. 👍
A dwindling player base of multi boxers cannot support a live service game for too long. Finding joy at players leaving the game is self harm to your own enjoyment.
I believe there is a tool already in the game that would help new players to not cry for losing a ship. But it lost the meaning because doesn't pay enough to buy the hull. It is the Insurance tool. Even if you choose the maximum insurance, it is not worth. And it is not mentioned during the AIR program, i think 🤔
Its been heavily nerfed. It used to be much better in the past.
Just boost CONCORD reaction for new player regions, and some damage reduction in those systems, so they dont get oneshoted. -> +info, that this system is uberprotected by concord.
You'll always be able to just over-fit and be able to one-shot. I also do believe that new players need to get used to losing ships early. It needs to be utterly ingrained into new players that losing ships is fine and normal - embrace it, just learn from it each time!
I would have no problem with the systems hosting tutorial agents being totally secure but other than that its perfect as is
Shitstorm of information indeed :) Deepdive in your thoughts today, nice one Benzie :)
Thank you!
What do you think about this, in High Sec, when a player (steals) the last main ship in deadspace open event, you automatically can lock and combat them with no Concord intervention?
Should extend to a 5 jump region
I do think the new NPE is pretty good, and I say that as someone who tore their previous attempts to pieces because of how bad they were. The little button that warps you around is kind of silly though, it makes far more sense to just teach you the method you'll be using for the rest of the game. You can't gank people in newbie systems already, well you can, but you'll get banned for it.
You get given so much money/ships for free now I really can't envision someone actually running out early on, the daily missions alone more than pay for a fitted T1 frigate and you can do them in the starter ship.
Any worse stories here than mine?
I just started nearly for nearly a month. While doing the AIR missions, I finally tried to do PVE hunting down non-capsuleers in hi-sec. While approaching the Guerista NPCs, I noticed Im getting hit quite harder than
usual. And even before I could react to bail out, I was done. My interest kinda fell off a bit too cause of the fact that I was expecting some kind of regulations when it comes to new players especially in HI-SEC. What's worse was after "getting the candy off a kid", he had the guts to tell me to fuck off?!!? lol
2024.06.16 02:15:18
Victim: Jeez Zaznutz
Corp: School of Applied Knowledge
Alliance: Unknown
Faction: Unknown
Destroyed: Kestrel
System: Sobaseki
Security: 0.8
Damage Taken: 2193
Involved parties:
Name: Lathgertha Fonulique (laid the final blow)
Security: 5.00
Corp: Yon-ju-Nana-shi
Alliance: None
Faction: None
Ship: Drake
Weapon: Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Damage Done: 2193
Destroyed items:
Small EM Shield Reinforcer I
Small Core Defense Field Extender I
Light Missile Launcher I
Nova Light Missile, Qty: 73 (Cargo)
Nova Light Missile, Qty: 40
Light Missile Launcher I
Small Shield Extender I
Salvager I (Cargo)
Proof of Discovery: Anomalies (Cargo)
Metal Scraps, Qty: 3 (Cargo)
Inertial Stabilizers I
Scourge Light Missile, Qty: 150 (Cargo)
Small Inductive Compact Remote Capacitor Transmitter (Cargo)
Iridium Charge S, Qty: 100 (Cargo)
Small Core Defense Field Extender I
Relic Analyzer I (Cargo)
Light Missile Launcher I
Iron Charge S, Qty: 100 (Cargo)
Core Probe Launcher I (Cargo)
X5 Enduring Stasis Webifier
Dropped items:
Core Scanner Probe I, Qty: 8 (Cargo)
Nova Light Missile, Qty: 90 (Cargo)
Data Analyzer I (Cargo)
Proof of Discovery: Anomalies (Cargo)
Small Shield Extender I (Cargo)
Metal Scraps (Cargo)
Nova Light Missile, Qty: 40
Ballistic Control System I
Scan Rangefinding Array I (Cargo)
Iridium Charge S, Qty: 100 (Cargo)
Proof of Discovery: Data (Cargo)
Light Missile Launcher I
Inferno Light Missile, Qty: 163 (Cargo)
Nova Light Missile, Qty: 40
Tungsten Charge S, Qty: 100 (Cargo)
Faint Epsilon Scoped Warp Scrambler
5MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Nova Light Missile, Qty: 40
Is it possible you got yourself accidentially "flashy" beforehand, i.e. suspect timer, e.g. by looting a drop box that didn't belong to you? If you were, they were able to attack you without a CONCORD response. Somebody in a Drake going after a new player in a Kestrel is definitely not the norm - they would have had to be incredibly bored to do this. And if it was an unprovoked attack, you can take solace in the fact that they will have lost their ship worth many, many times your Kestrel to CONCORD.
@Captin Benzie Hello there, I need some help, My problem is that I am always stuck at very low dps on extream fits like a gnosis fit used for t4 abyssal deadspaces, with faction missile launchers and dps boosting modules, the fit was meant to get at least 900+ dps with drones, but actualy i get something like roughly 243 dps, the problem isn't only with this fit it's on all ships and fits with turrets and launchers, my skills of missile launchers are high enough as alpha clone to get high dps for t4 abyssal deadspaces, but even having all skills, the problem is still showing, and the actual gameplay damage values are equal to the dps in the fit menu with the low dps problem.
Please anyone if you know what the problem is and how to fix it tell me, I asked in the Rookie help chat section but no one knows what the problem is.
Thank you.
Yeah, Idk. Had a new bro get on the game, did tutorial, mined a couple days, got a cheap mining ship and went to mine in a .8 sec. Before he knows it, hes being told he has to have a mining license, even tho our Corp home station is there, and of course he has no money so they kill him. Now he has to wonder, is this hame even worth it, if I cant even get started before being accosted. They wiped out the rest of the miners in system and moved on.. .8 Sec space might has well have been .3
That's EVE. I don't mean that to sound like a handwave of what is obviously a nasty situation to end up in... But that's why the new player experience gives so much ISK, so many ships, and why you are consistently directed to join a corp.
Yes, bad things happen in EVE, and that's kind of the point. The low points exist to accentuate the high points. The heroic player achievements matter more when there's genuine risk to them.
Hopefully your friend took that as a learning experience. Red list the pilot and corp, stay aware of local. Nowhere is safe, and learning lessons like this help him get destroyed less. Accepting that these destructions are what fuels his industry (basic ore is worth something because it's risky, if it was safe to harvest, it would be worthless).
As I said, profitability in Industry comes from destruction. The trick is making sure it's NOT YOU getting destroyed.
@captainbenzie Yeah, completely understand. I've been playing off and on since 2006 and I just live on the danger of it but I've always been a 100% solo guy. Now I'm coming back and trying to be more social for the first time and just got absolutely addicted to wormholes. So, I'm bringing friends in too. It's brought a new view of things as I try and explain these things for the first time to someone else but me lol. I pulled him into Catskull with me. I'm devoted as I've ever been and I'm holding on to him best I can lol. It just didn't help it was in the Tolle system of all places, to pirates demanding Mining licenses 😆. Anyway, thanks for giving me some new ways to try and explain this wild west to a growing player. I live on your content but I'm a better student than teacher. 👍
24:11 that is what we do with our WH corp. if we gank someone, a heron or venture and see if the char is like 1 month old, we then send them an email which we prepared about dscan and so on and also return like 1-5m so he can buy a new ship.
Still feel bad about one situtation. one guy was multiboxing with two alpha accounts. one heron for hacking and a caracal to "protect" it. i jumped into the site and the caracal was on 0 there so i attacked it. the heron got scared and warped away to a the ordinary gas site with tower and lost there his ship. so he lost at the end everything. with a one week char
Haha, it happens! I think some people forget that you can't tell how old someone is or what their intentions are, quickly. We had a Magnate appear in our home system at a time when we were particularly jumpy due to a few seeders.
That Magnate was scanned and leapt upon by one of our Scottish players in record time. He links the kill, points out that the account is literally 3 hours old and in a thick Scottish accent, says simply and sadly "I am a BAD, bad man..." 😂
Just joined CTSK ! I happy to be there. Just a thought... I would love if you actually uploaded all of these talking-style of videos to apple podcasts.
I should try that 😂
Wow, I am new the EVE and this info has been super invaluable. You brought a perspective I hadn’t considered.
As a side note, I do offer a bit of feedback. I think your voice audio/mic setup could use some tuning. I find myself being distracted with the loud inhales throughout the video and cannot understand how you would have a mic capable of allowing me to hear you swallow?(4:07) Content is S tier mate, subbed and looking forward to more content!
I'm confused.. are we talking about Eve online or Eve Echoes? You seem to be using these 2 interchangeably when they are 2 separate games.
I think he stopped making Echoes content.
I'm using Echoes as evidence for an experiment gone wrong
not sure why echoes would be brought up at all in this situation. Mobile games don't count for anything.
@@dullahandan4067 to discount something purely because of its platform is absurd. Echoes may be a mobile game that's now a dumpster fire, but it also has a LOT of learning points, some of them GOOD.
EVE Online has implemented several features that were in Echoes and worked: AIR Career Program, Corporation projects etc.
We can also look at Echoes for what DIDN'T work.
But instead of learning from something, you'd just ignore it? This is how history repeats. Echoes tried things in an EVE setting, some worked, many didn't. Learning from that is important.
I can follow, yes I learned in life, the one who is not afraid to loose is wining more, more value of life, shure you have to be sane and you have to know exactly what barriers can come up. But thats the fun, overcome barriers by knowing them in and out and creating ways to handle them or even use them to win 😁👍🚀
Yes I like the opinions you presented with the tried and true facts.
Also the total security options are great idea. Like 1.0 sec areas or the only total security basically starting areas. And couple that with starting mission ship tokens fantastic. You really do put a lot of thought into content ideas.
Thank you ☺️
I've been the ganker and the gank-eee. Exploding ships make market move. If you can't afford to lose the ship, keep it docked. Or you do what I do. Don't just build one, build a backup. Then build a backup to your backup.
I still think that there should be more of a probability to things like warp disruption. The problem with the system as it is is that someone who's played for years and has a lot of money can have a 100% probaility of taking out another ship. Warp disrupters should be a role of a dice. Maybe a 3/4 chance of working and a 1/6th chance of deactivating the shields of the ship using it. Would make PVP a lot more fun if the risk wasn't 1-sided.
At the end of the day, some people just don't like hardcore PvP-only MMOs. You can say, "Just go play something else.", but the problem (for the developers) is that they *will* just go play something else. By driving away the players who don't like PvP but do like the PvE elements of EVE, you're cutting out a good chunk of potential paying customers. Wouldn't it be better if there were simply more/better incentives to use lowsec to drive more PvP for those that want it?
No. That's literally a huge point of my 3 Uncomfortable Truths video
Just as an FYI, I believe this is already a thing. If you purposely interfere with new players doing the tutorial by ganking them you can be banned for it. Not sure if that extends to career missions too tho.
High sec ganking is too easy and should have harsher punishment and you should not be able to gain your reputation or security status back with just money.
that moment when you realize that making constructive videos pays less than making controversial videos... but only in the short term
That moment when you think you understand how I'm thinking better than I do, or how TH-cam works when you have one video up with 11 views, and I've been YouTubing as my career for seven years now. Seven years paying my bills with this 😊 If you think I'm making short term content, my man, I'm not sure the evidence supports that, but do sound off.
Just like how EVE Online is a niche game and not for everyone, and different aspects of that game appeal to different people, this kind of content may not be for you - and that's fine! I wouldn't expect a combat player to want to watch my exploration videos and visa versa!
But please don't be quite so arrogant as to think that you not liking something is for dumbass reasons like you're giving. Some folks have really enjoyed this kind of video, and they're fun to make as a change of pace.
Cpt. Benzie for Eve amassador!!
I stay in 1.0 Hisec because I like to stay where I'm not getting ganked everyday.
The best skill to learn is annoyance. Don't fear the gankers, be better than them.
@@captainbenzie I'm not going to renew my 4x accounts after they expire.
In my view, that's perfectly fine - you play the game the way you want to! Even by staying in a 1.0 sec system, you are a full-fledged member of the player community. Because even in a 1.0 sec system, the difference between it being high-sec vs. what it would be if it was perfect-sec is huge.
I like high sec the way it is. The only issue I have is that freaking safety button. As an alpha I can't change it to red, but an Omega can and fire on anyone in high sec. As an alpha I cannot do so and so with that I am left unable to fight off a player that is stealing my high sec mission UNLESS I'm fired on first! If I'm not fired on and they ruin my site, I can't take ANY action and forced to leave the site due to this action. They are able to fly in, attack me in that mission and fly off no problem. And before anyone says I was in low sec your wrong. .5 isn't low sec....
If alpha was able to gank, it would make it far too easy for every single person to have a permanent high-sec ganking alt for absolutely zero monetary cost.
Obviously this is easy to do on Omega and only take a few days of training time, but those training hours are paid for.
I'm okay with ganking in high-sec. But do I want to make it literally free for anyone and everyone to run around ganking? No.
CCP treats Security Status seriously, and being able to print alpha accounts without ever having to deal with security status getting too low again would be a problem in the game.
That's because they don't want people making hundreds of alpha accounts to troll others.
Missing the point, this completely leaves a new alpha vulnerable with no idea as to how or why it happened. All the while that tech 3 just warps off laughing with little to no retaliation for his actions.
What specifically did they do when they "stole" your highsec mission? As far as I know, if they try to steal your loot, they will go flashy, meaning you *can* attack them back. If they come in and attack you, you can obviously fight back. If they "complete" the mission for you by taking out the NPC targets (not sure why they would), you just got an unasked-for assist, and you should still be able to hand in the mission no problem.
@@maedetheone I ran a mission with two friends, all three in Merlins, tech 3 tactical shows up, fires on my friends and then me...that's stealing my site, not giving unasked-for assistance. No one in eve gives unasked-for assistance.
There is a problem with the token, basicly making new chars to get the tokens, get out to null and then sell t1 frigs for billions since the game pays for it fully
Ah yes, true
You can do this now with the free ships really, but they don't cost a bil. The truth is their value is so low it simply isn't worth the effort. I think it would be better if there was a final mission that explained how to move elsewhere, along with advice to not put everything you own into a single hauler, not that a new player can do that, but it's worth mentioning anyway.
@@memitim171 i mean yes technically possible but not actually feasable, would be terrible isk per hour and the wait for the biotrashing of every character.
I guess a totsec could be solved in the same way actually, totally nuke the income of highsec to like require 70hours of play every day to keep omega and then make it truesec to make it a demo version for new people and say that the true eve experience is in null
So let me get this straight; we've got to have high-sec suicide gankers to protect the devs from having to do their job and stop botters...another brilliant take
Yeah, that's exactly what I said. Did you watch the video on mute? 😂
@@captainbenzie Nah I shut it off after you tried to float the "niche" game defense again but I did catch the part about EVE echoes and how having "complete safety" encourages botting and just thought it was a weird rationalization that was actually a non-sequitur so i expressed it as such.
@@theamazingwesbrown3290 so, in other words, you want to try and comment against what I said without even hearing what I said. Okay. That's logical. I mean, I even prefaced that bit REPEATEDLY by saying it was the most minor argument 😂 next time I'll write it on screen in crayon?
The problem is that the game relies on industrials collecting resources and building the ships, fittings, and all that but when you make that bit so tedious and time consuming that nobody wants to do it then what? When you make it too easy to waste the time of the few who do it and ruin their day for fun and profit, then what?
@@theamazingwesbrown3290 except there are PLENTY who love that play style, and recognise that the risk is what makes them profitable. Destruction provides their profit, but they're skilled enough to not be the ones getting blown up.
If you find industry boring, it may not be the play style for you. If you're scared of risk, EVE may not be the game for you. Complaining that something is boring and too risky, just means it's not for you, and that's fine. There are games like Elite Dangerous where you can play online, then just log off and go offline if it gets too scary.
Highsec needs more options for PvP besides suicide ganking and joining a Jita camping wardec bloc. Suicide ganking is boring. We need more stuff like 1 man wardecs, baiting, etc.
When I was in Suddenly Ninjas, tons of our recruits were mission runners or people we screwed with, because baiting and stalking is an involved process that could be fun for both sides.
The fact that suicide ganking is the only highsec PvP left is frankly terrible for the game. The fact we have instanced Abyssals, the wardec system completely gutted, all make highsec PvP incredibly boring now.
@this.is.a.username Paul was great. I actually got mentored by Khalia. I still talk to the old guard sometimes but most of them have left the lifestyle because of all the changes.
If it is a real problem of new players being ganked and they rage quit, CCP should do something to keep these players safe for a set time so they can really learn the system. They could be invulnerable for 30days. This 30day vulnerability will be lost if they enter Low Sec, engage in any criminal activity or engage in any sort of PVP. A warning will pop up stating you will lose your vulnerable status due to said activity.
Hi sec isn’t safe no matter where system you are. Just as in real life as you state. Security systems really aren’t in place to stop criminals they are to catch them after the fact.
Genuine questions:
1. do people actually target newbies? Or do people just find targets that are within their capability and normally are profitable?
2. I spend a lot of time in high sec, and the only time I am ever afraid is hauling valuable cargo. Do people actually kill T1 frigs/destroyers/cruisers etc if they are not hauling 100m isk or so worth of stuff?
3. Do people actually kill botting miners in highsec? It wouldnt seem profitable to me? I suppose it could be entertaining or at least satisfying to kill a botter... but normally they would pay their ship off quickly? And don't lose much from the death?
For the purposes of grinding isk with bots I feel that highsec is already 'total sec'.
Besides botting project discovery which is 'total sec' is probably more profitable than botting mining. 20+mill per hour per running instance. Does require a lot of accounts if you want to scale though... 1 instancing running alpha characters non-stop would need about 16 accounts. but still produces about 480m per day. Combine it with skill farming / skill farm to 20m SP you get an additional 9 billion per character per year.
IE skill farm 3 characters per account to 20m sp gives 3 x marshal blueprints at 8 billion a pop + other blueprints + other rewards.
Most people are petty and thus they target new players. For every honorable PVPer, there's 100 people with jobs or relationships they don't like who want to take out their aggression on others.
making the starter zones total sec wont cut it why not give newbros a "pvp protection" for so many days? and while they are "protected" they cannot enter low/null sec or wormhole space without either protection timer running out or they opt out of the protection entirely to jump into those zones. give them enough time to get their bearing in the game.
I need to move some stuff from Hisec to Nullsec. I create an alt, send a load of money, skill injectors to fly a hauler, but and fit the hauler, load it and fly it 100% safe. I extract the skills if I can, then delete the character.
That's why that doesn't work.
@@captainbenzie true i guess your right on that. i didnt think on it too hard to be honest. This is a difficult thing to truly solve it seems.
Add dead-man-switches to ships. Make them expensive but you'll be able to make the PVP behavior less excessive and no longer 1-sided. Imagine losing your mining ship to a ganker only for him to lose his 3B ISK tech 3 ship in the process.
right, here me out, anytime a player under 1 month is attacked in highsec, all ships in space in all of highsec spontaneously explode
No no, all players with negative sec rating's ships in highsec explode. There, I fixed it. :)
@@tobberh nooooooooo that makes way too much sense, all players under the age of 35 but over the age of 16 explode if the offending player is amarr. Otherwise any other race people between those ages explode. Its the only way to be sure.
0:47 OH **** HERE WE GO!!! 🙄
Checks out a Benzie video because I miss my mate, and the Bull**** is infecting Eve Online?! People never change.
6:10 Waiting for him to mention Eve Echoes and the dumpster fire Highsec being completely safe is 😒
6:53 AND there it is 😊
8:15 Update* they added some belt "miners" in Nullsec, but they're extremely rare and harmless.
9:21 Boy does the botters never quit 🙄
10:06 It absolutely does ruin the market and economy, inflation is still a huge issue.
12:31 BOT the encounters* because that's all they do now.
13:58 Modules are completely dirt cheap now, utterly worthless unless it's meta.
15:30 ABSOLUTELY TRUE!! Arguably most EE players suffer from monkey brain. 😒
17:10 It has happened! Can't maintain a playerbase because of this.
18:50 And that sucks!!!
20:21 Yep, we have been doing everything we can think of forever, but FOMO is what it is. Players WILL choose total safety and free ISK eventually if it's available.
The fix is players need to accept the risk, and become competitive.
Good to see you Captain! 😊
Fly aggressive o7
Good to see you, Bradric! Felt like this one might summon you! 😂
your forgetting about casual players. People that PAY ccp each month because they don't play enough to earn the billions of isk needed to plex omega. There needs to be options for solo players, the more different kinds of play options available will help increase the player base, which will keep the game alive.
I've tried eve echos, high sec being safe isn't the games issue, trying to play a game like eve on a mobile phone is!
Before Hisec islands were a thing, Echoes worked. It emulated the EVE experience well. So the platform isn't an issue (I don't see how a smaller screen or touch interface could be an issue since many folks literally engaged with EVE Online via EVE Anywhere doing the same thing).
EVE is not intended for solo play. Yes, you CAN do it, but it's a terrible idea for a new player trying to understand the game and causes most of the dropouts that I see. Finding a corp to help learn the game keeps players around - going solo later is viable, but trying to solo at the start? You're making the game so much harder, so much more frustrating, and really ramping up the risk of quitting.
It's like asking for a non-campaign solo mode in Apex Legends or Fortnite. Or asking for a cricket mode in NFL of FIFA. It's not what the game is designed for, and that's fine. Plenty of great solo space games out there for folks to engage with. We don't need to change the entirety of EVE Online's community focus to appease folks who ultimately don't want to play EVE Online. I wouldn't go into a Chinese restaurant and expect them to serve Mexican food, if that's what I want, I'd go to a Mexican restaurant.
Astrox Imperium.
its on steam and you can make your own ships, ship classes, and universes.
I agree with you!
This is what broke eve echoes, CCP makes data based decsions, and Eve Echoes' loss of player base on a similar model is pretty huge datapoint.
Is your Catskull discord working? I can’t see anyway to chat or interact.
You have to select roles
@captainbenzie hay, I get why can't be safe. I do. But how about mining being backwards. T1 and ore miners/drones give best rewards with 0 waste, but t2 and factions give the highest waste. Explain how higher tech is worse than lower?
@@windkonton2336 it's about speed. You harvest faster with T2 but get less overall per asteroid
I don’t disagree with you but I desperately wish there was an eve like game where I could just chill and do my space trucking or missions without anxiety.
Whatever that game is, it isn't EVE 😅
@@captainbenzieexcept it literally is. That's what the vast majority of time spend in eve is doing. Is it 80/20? 90/10? Let's just say it's not even close and I dare you to disagree.
Isn't this in fact ruining a Pve game with too much PVP, rather than the other way around?
Keep in mind if you attack in high sec you are killed, and wouldn't be able to loot your reward without paying for another account. Then security status etc.... these are things the game devs put in to police this activity right? Right?!
So what we are talking about is how these rules put in by devs to defend the bulk of the players aren't working well enough.
If the game was what you pretend it was none of that would exist and it would all be null, and it would have died a decade ago like EVERY game that tries this.
You know why this isn't about a certain module being OP or a ship? Like literally every other game discussion about PVP would be? That's because balance literally doesn't matter when things are so broken that max level players are killing you at the merchant and ignoring all mechanisms put in place to stop that by simple paying more money.
If you are really just interested in the chill-and-fly-some-spaceships aspects, you *can* in principle go and play the game on the test server. You can even have your friends join you for group PvE and mining fleets.
Wow, I thought high sec was already pretty dang safe. In my own real world home town, people can still do bad stuff to you, but most of them don't, because the cops will come do bad things to them if they do. Sounds just like high sec.
Let me be perfectly clear, since 2007 I have never once fired first on another player. Never. But the game would flat out suck if the game stopped you from shooting other players' ships or stealing their stuff. NPCs/rats exist to pump a little merchandise and money into the game to get the pump flowing, but the whole thing is about a real economy, real consequences, and real freedom, all driven by the players, not a hand holding nanny game that guides you along a predetermined track and won't let you off. (Jane, stop this crazy thing!) There's an entire industry of games like that, and oh look, I am not in any of them. For a reason.
If it helps, just think of other players as enemy NPCs with exceptionally tricky AI, making them unpredictable. Some of them will aggro on you, so look out!
Thankfully, CCP will never bend to these demands, since it would not be in their interest to do so. Nothing is ever perfect, so they'll keep tweaking and adding and adjusting and it's all good. Or at least, the bad isn't worth getting knicker-twisted about. Go pummel some belt rats and get your aggression out. But watch out for those Catalysts that just landed on grid, right?
Sometimes I think I should make a parody of the "This is EvE" video, showing gold farmers in a Korean MMO and stuff like that, and call it "This is NOT EvE, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time."
o7
Well, I actually have never heard anyone who would like it to be impossible to shoot other players in high-sec. There is plenty of reason why should be able to do it, like faction warfare, doing things that make you suspect like stealing, you should be able to shoot them and take their loot, since they agree to PvP by doing that. But attacking someone illegally, and be able to steal someones loot should NOT be possible in high-sec. There is too many problems with the abuse and bullying it introduces to the game that is just BAD for the game. Illegal (as in Concord illegal/criminal flag) ganking in high-sec should NOT be as insanely lucrative as it is now and it really needs to be fixed once and for all.
@@tobberh Well, you’re completely entitled to have your opinion on that and I can’t fault you for it. I just completely disagree. And that’s ok. 👍
I’ve spent thousands of hours in high sec and in all those years I only felt bullied one time, and afterwards I realized I could have avoided it easily if I understood the game mechanics better. I learned and never made the same mistake again. Bad karma on the guy who bullied a noob but I didn’t cry and quit.
Sure, the gate campers in Uedama are annoying but it gives me a chance to go another way through one low sec system and get a little thrill.
Anyway, fair winds and clear skies, and may the gankers seek you in vain. o7
I got a laugh out of the "botting in high sec will ruin the game" argument. That is so 2007-2011 thinking. I haven't covered the scene in a couple of years, but the botters moved to null sec and spread into FW low sec because they are like cockroaches and do best where there aren't a lot of people. In high sec there are too many people around willing to report bots.
And the ISK they'd make? You know that combined bounties and ESS Main Bank autopayments are the biggest ISK faucet in the game. And back when CCP published such information between 90-95% of bounties were collected in null sec.
The botters went to null because it's currently the safest way to bot. If highsec was 100% safe then they would all move there immediately. Just look at eve echoes, players will farm 100% longer for 50% of the isk if it's perfectly safe. Not only that industry is fucked in EE, lots because there are no haulers being shot at in highsec.
Newbros suggestion: Why not do what I experienced first two times I got shot down as a newbro and what I also do ever since, whenever I kill a newbro. Start a conversation, tell them why, gift em triple their loss in isk and move on. Ccp could do that. If you kill a newbro in a newbro region (not only system), then ccp takes quadruple the loss directly from you and gives the newbro 3/4 of that. Of course only up to certain ship types, so we don’t get an industry of biomassing idiots in bait Orcas.
Also would mean that you can only lock onto ships, when you have that isk in your wallet.
The real problem isn't the lack of security, it's the people who exploit it.
Airport analogy: airport security used to be light... no pat downs, you could bring your family in, etc. Then _one_ attack happened, and now the security is incredible. Where is the response from the federation to the increase in ganking attacks? The height of any security is relative to the threat.
The attacks on high-sec is exploitative and it serves the purpose of stunting the growth of the economy. It benefits the CCP, and wealthy players at the expensive of hard working low-level players. The price of capital ships is not affected by people over-mining plagioclase. That kind of over-mining only lowers prices of daily goods, bought up by the little guy. Can't have that, says the wealthy ganker.
Hisec is already 99% safe. Making it 100% safe would do nothing for the game.
Carebears don't make videos about introducing Concord in wormholes. Why don't you do the same and let them play how they like?
Newbies are safe. They have nothing of value to get ganked for.
Other players don't exist for your sole pleasure of killing them.
I agree, high sec shouldn't be 100% safe, but today all gankers use scripts and bots, so if they catch you it's over.
CPU vs player, CPU always wins.
It is not like 20 players vs 1 player but clones/bots with scripts.
Is there a list of good newbie corps to join?
Not that I know of. Catskull will be happy to help (Discord link in the video description) of groups like EVE UNI.
The danger of such lists is that they can never include all possible groups that would be good to include without getting hopelessly bloated and unusable, because there are simply too many corps that could conceivably be a good fit for new players.
The variety of gameplay that the game offers, the different space (high, low, null, WH) that groups can be located in, the different timezones that they might be active in - there's just too many variables.
I'd recommend a) looking through as much out-of-game content about Eve Online that you can to get a handle on the full variety of corps that exist in the game, b) keep your eyes open in-game for encounters that could give you a lead on specific corps that are active in or around the same areas that you are interested in, c) take part in public NPSI fleets to get in touch with both newer and really, really experienced players, and d) if all else fails (meant as a joke, they are join-worthy no matter what!), join Eve Uni, one of the long-standing explicitly-new-player-focused corps, at least for a while, and use it as a springboard for your next adventure after learning more about the game.
@@maedetheone thank you great insight
I agree that high sec should not be fully safe, but the griefers really need to go, hitting people just to do it is wrong.
I'm not even a PvP player (as in, I don't go out hunting but I do sometimes do Faction Warfare) and I know being killed can be frustrating (in different degrees depending on the scenario) but that's my point, it's a vital part of the game. Griefing too. Merchant vessels weren't exactly happy with pirates, but that's a part of the EVE experience.
I think you have it wrong. Its a lot safer to grind isk in null sec. I can grind havens as you say "at nauseum" without any reisk to my fancy over blinged ship. When someone comes in local, I dock. In hs you can easily get ganked. Go and see how many CRAB'ing rorquals have been lost recently, can bet there are far less than faction fit HS mission running ships.
Strongly considering starting Eve, I have been watching reviews and it looks crazy good and I do enjoy learning more complex games. It just seems overwhelming to learn how to play, ive read that 3-4 months and you may not realy be caught up. It this true?
No that’s not true at all. However skill training happens in real time so the sooner you start the sooner you can train into cool ships etc. there is actually a free 1 m skill points available if you click on a referral link when you sign up..
Best advice I can give is join a hood corp. I’m part of a really good wormhole corp. hit me up if you’d like to learn more
all the advert for Eve is from days and years past.
the "i was there" campaigne and "this is eve"
its all copium to a large degree.
if you really want to pay the sub, dont expect to get into any huge fleet fights within 6months to a years.
dont think you are gonna be zipping around at 3000m/s in a condor shooting missiles and blowing up cruisers.
it is a very slow, and a very very long term game, especially witht he skill training.
it gets to the point where any lvl5 skill takes 20 to 34 days to train, so thats 1 subscription for an extra % added on to missiles or torps or railguns or shields or whatever skill.
Your experience will largely depend on your expectations for what will happen within the first day of play, the first week, the first few months.
The new player tutorial is actually quite decent these days, and with the Sisters of Eve Epic Arc you can continue with something that neatly follows on after that and has a good amount of isk as a reward. You can't expect to be ready for successful 1v1 PvP action in lowsec already or to immediately get a chance to experience a huge titan fight first-hand, but you *will* have learned enough of the basic gameplay to be able to join a corp and be a useful addition to them as well as join just-for-fun public PvP fleets, of which there are a good number.
Where you go after these initial steps is completely up to you. Same with how quickly you want to be able to consider yourself "good" at the game - that can certainly involve reading up a lot of gameplay details and doing deliberate hours of practice in-game, maybe even on the test server for specific encounters.
@@maedetheone you make really really good points.
You basically summaries it up really well.
I would propose the following instead of making hisec safer:
- Make a totalsec section for new players, allowing them to learn about the game in a safe environment before they leave that area and join the rest of New Eden.
- Make the consequences less severe by making insurance work properly for all ships up to T3, and even implants. Currently insuring anything other than the basic T1 ships is mostly a waste. Allow people to at least recover a fair portion of their loss. Insurance in EVE never worked for as long as I can remember. And being able to insure your clone and implants would be a plus too.
But overall I agree with you, hisec can't be completely safe (except maybe a noob starting area). I just think in many cases the consequences are too severe. A less severe loss (with a propper insurance system) would also motivate players to take more risks, which would increase PVP opportunities.
we have that, its called youtube, you can watch thousands of hours of content before you ever grace us with the cowardice it requires to die in a video game from time to time.
Was writing this as I listened to you and only now realize you also proposed the totalsec system. Nice!
To your first point - This already exists, they are known as Rookie Systems. Ganking someone inside those systems is very literally a bannable offence, which they definitely do enforce.
To your second point - This would be nice in theory, but in practice people have found ways to game the system by killing their own ships and farming the insurance payouts
@@LazyActor 99.9% of new players won't watch any videos before trying the game.
@@BrunoMoozika good thing the game has words in it you can read lol. cant fix stupid. damn sure not making excuse's for it.
I enjoy these conversations. I find them helpful and thought provoking.
Thank you ☺️
I've been playing more than fifteen years. I don't buy ships I've lost, now I have too many to count. I'm still skilling into new ships, still buying rigs, still running missions and mining, and I reprocess salvage that does not give good prices. There is a lot of contradiction in this video, either people are hoarding isk or they're flooding the market? The game mechanic does not break because I'm still buying ships. I hate getting Plex to advance my game, but grinding is too tedious to buy an orca. I've played out in null sec, it was fun for a time, but it is not for me. Eve is many things for many people, we don't have to all play crapshoot.
There's no contradiction at all - neither is mutually exclusive, in fact they kind of integrate. Bounties inject ISK into the economy that did not exist before, whilst also injecting new materials (modules etc). If everyone suddenly is able to have 10bn ISK, and has everything that they want, then stuff in the market stops selling at current price, stocks build up, prices go down as supply outstrips demand. This means people spend less on the market, and earn more through that safe content. Which causes the situation to spiral more.
This is why EVE has a dedicated team of economists to watch the markets and work with the Devs to keep it stable with droprates etc.
You're also confusing your own experience and anecdotal evidence as the wider likelihood. That's not the case. Most folks do not buy multiple ships. They have a small collection of ones they use.
Ergo, they have a ship that they use, it never gets destroyed. Every time they fly it, they increase both the total ISK in the game world, and the total number of modules in the game world.
Multiply that out, and you have loads of new ISK that isn't being destroyed, loads of new modules flooding the market (since they're coming in faster than they sell).
Even if you assume that everyone would just start collecting ships, what happens when they have them all?
Yes, the grind can be hard if you're solo or doing content that's either not lucrative or not enjoyable. And that's also kind of my point. Ask any game designer what the hardest part of their job is and many will respond with a variation of "saving players from themselves". If you create a deeply unfun yet efficient way to earn rewards, many players will do that over and over, burning themselves out and complaining that the game is boring.
So, 100% safe Hisec floods the game with ISK, floods the market with modules, removes necessary destruction, and "rewards" players for not engaging with the core design concepts of the game and burning themselves out on content they tire of quickly.
EVE is absolutely about the risk. Learn to embrace that and you'll have so much more fun.
eve echoes is a parody of eve - taking it seriously is hilarious
As is discarding it as utterly pointless. It did some things fantastically well (and those things have, happily, been introduced over to EVE Online - like the AIR Career Program, Corporation tasks, etc), and it's an excellent showcase of what can go wrong with seemingly subtle changes to core gameplay.
We also saw things like all tank modules being moved to low slots, and how that affects balance, alongside the removal of turret/missile hard points etc.
Ignoring Echoes misses the opportunity to learn from it.
"I'm gonna go to HiSec and do what those *t*ruckers are doing" - laughed so hard, but it's so true. No idea why people cannot understand this concept. I must commend you on how hard you're trying to get this across - I would have just given up a long time ago.
But you're 100% on the mark, full on PVE in HS is a game breaker, and you've just given all the needed evidence...if they still don't get it, they never will.
I don't get the complaint anyway. I've been playing for quite a few years, and every now and then I help a new friend getting into EVE, and in my 10+ years, I've maybe been blown up ONCE or TWICE in HS...and I actually MADE money from it, cause it was done by some bored player that just wanted to shoot something, so he lost a more expensive ship, and I looted both HIS and my wrecks, and got all his modules. Yes, I'm being careful in HS, but I've never been blown up in JITA (of all systems) as a new player for any random reason. Yes, if I jump into JITA with an Iteron with 500mil worth of ORE to sell, I'm shaking in my boots, but even in that, they've NEVER shot me down...maybe I'm just lucky, but yeah, in my opinion, it's never been THAT dangerous in HS that I felt that they should make it safer.
I personally have ganked new players in LS/NS in belts and exploration systems (and I've been ganked there as well), but with 99% of them, after the gank, I've had a great conversation, given them a few pointers, and even refunded their ships...and that to me is worth MORE to them, since they actually lean to fly safer, and have more fun in risky areas.
Keep making great content, we'll be here supporting you all the way :D
When I got my first ship blow in WH space CCP actually checed on me with message that this can be quite tought to handle, so you can see even they try to help out new players...
Haha !! I had that too - it was almost as if I was some kind of Snowflake that needed his Safe Space because he'd lost his ship in a computer game........
same thing happened to me when I lost my venture on the first week playing. a GM reached out through "Player Support Experience" program.
I quit Eve online for being nothing more than a griefer's paradise. Anyone who mentions it I warn them off immediately and most don't even try it after that. Word of mouth is still a powerful tool.
So you had a bad experience, and rather than accepting that the game isn't for you, you decided to put your friends off trying something they might enjoy? That sounds reasonable.
I don't like cheese but I'm not gonna tell my mates that something they might enjoy sucks just because I don't like it 😂
@@captainbenzie Yup. :)
@@captainbenzie i would rather not my friends waste their time or money on what essentially is a griefer gangs paradies.
if your not in the mafia your a target, if you are in the mafia you are targeting someone thats not.
then there is null sec and all its drama/politics.
then there is wh space where things are simpler but relationships and networking are required.
why would i want anyone to risk spending money on such a questional, unreliable investment?
@@snowwann273 Why would you NOT want to risk investing in something that has the potential to lead you to an incredible ongoing experience in a group of dedicated, helpful, friendly, social players?
If you are looking to fly around in a spaceship doing this and that, but are not looking for the social aspects of joining a group, learning from each other, doing stuff together, celebrating deserved wins and commiserating over painful ship losses, then there are other games that will fit you better. The reason Eve still exists after 21 years is precisely because of this element of danger, without which these meaningful communities of players would not exist.
(And yes, you don't necessarily HAVE to join a corp in Eve if you don't want to, as long as you are still seeing yourself as an active part of the entire community of Eve players. You can feel part of the community when using the wiki to read up on some gameplay mechanic. And maybe in time even editing this or that page to add some useful information. Or going through the latest patch notes and announcement of future changes. Or looking through the calendars of groups organising public fleets to see when there might be an opportunity to take part in something like this. Or talking smack in local chat after witnessing a gank. Or, or, or...)