Braking With or Without Clutch? Which is correct?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 พ.ย. 2024
- Today let’s discuss something which I’ve been asked quite a lot. Should we pull in the clutch during braking? Like with most things in motorcycling, the answer is - it depends.
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On Moto Control channel you will find videos about motorcycles, motorcycle riding techniques, tips & tricks and online motorcycle training for beginner and advanced riders!
A little info about me. My name is Andrei Bodrov, originally I'm from Moscow, Russia, and now I live in Buenos Aires, Argentina. Back in Moscow I was a motorcycle instructor and creator of Moto Control Beginner & Advanced motorcycle rider courses, which quickly became the most popular courses in Moscow (well, at least the advanced one😁). My advanced training course makes emphasis on slow speed riding techniques at first (such as good clutch and throttle control, proper riding posture, proper use of vision, etc.), then proceeds to more advanced techniques (such as aggressive braking, trail braking, maximal lean angle). The course incorporates a lot of exercises from DOSAF slow speed riding (similar to police rodeo like motorcycle training in USA), braking and cornering exercises and motogymkhana style riding. And now, since I actively learn English - I decided to post some useful videos for both your and mine practice!😉
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Since everyone writes this, it's necessary, I suppose 🤷, so here we go. Disclaimer: Ride at your own risk, you are responsible for your own safety. Me, Andrey Bodrov and my channel, Moto Control disclaim any liability incurred in connection with the use of riding techniques from this channel. Use common sense, wear full protective gear and ride in a safe and predictable manner!
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Pulling the clutch in too early means you’re coasting, which means less control. It’s a reflex for new riders bcz they think “If I separate the engine from the wheels then I’ll get into less trouble”. Which is true sometimes, but very untrue a lot of the time.
I've had this exact mindset getting into bikes coming from manual cars. Especially because the engine braking is typically way more pronounced on motorcyles. While in manual cars pressing the clutch with no throttle usually does nothing unless you press the brake, I've had a few scares where I intended to slow down, and pulling the clutch made the bike "accelarate" due to the lack of engine braking.
@@lakiza55 I’m from Scotland where almost everybody drives manual cars. One of the first things I noticed when learning to ride a bike was how savage the engine braking was, (but obviously once you know how and when to best use it, it’s a great feature).
The way I look at it is when you pull the clutch early or inappropriately on a bike, you become a passenger rather than a rider. The thing is freewheeling on its own. Which isn’t good.
@@jakesolo2872 Same here, I was at a roundabout, leaned a bit. And then there was a "I'm going a bit faster than I'm comfortable with", so I naturally pull in the clutch and the bike just straightens and i end up going wider, luckily there was no one in the outer lane. Same goes for scooters, switched my Yamaha Tracer 7 for an XMAX, because my buddy wanted to try my bike. Barely made a light corner because I just let off the throttle and got caught off guard by it not slowing down at all unlike my bike in 2nd or 3rd gear. In lower gears, I rarely use the rear brake, as you feel the braking and weight transfer to the front by just downshifting and slowly releasing the clutch.
@@lakiza55 I use my rear brake a lot when coming to a stop. I live in the hills/mountains and stopping on an incline with the rear brake makes things easy.
@@Ntmoffi I use a mix of front and rear brakes as the circumstances dictate. People argue about what’s best, but I don’t think there are any “rules” about it. I’ve been riding a long time and I’ve never hit anything or fallen off, so I must be doing something right. Also I often use the rear brake as a kind of signal to the traffic behind me that there’s something coming up they might need to slow or stop for. Bikers sit higher up and can see further and over the heads of the traffic in front, so try and give people an early warning.
Brilliant. To make it even more concise: Pull in clutch at stopstill, don't pull in clutch from a mile away. Your clutch and engine engaged coupled with braking helps you slow down faster, smoother and easier.
Yeah I normally pull the clutch in when about 5-10 feet away from full stopping going down in gears.
Oh man I was doing this shit until now, goddamn I could hv collided, thank god
The first thing I ever learned about riding a motorcycle was CLUTCH THEN BRAKE, and as a beginner this was great advice because I didn’t have to fight the engine to slow down or even stop. Now that I’m more intermediate, I see the value of engine/ compression braking, but in emergency stop situations, I still go clutch then front brake 20% rear brake 80% then front brake 90% and let off the rear brake. Basically allows me to stop almost instantly.
On a non ABS bike, practicing braking in front of an instructor, I learned that the rear wheel locks much earlier than I thought (meaning: by the time I notice it, it had already been sliding for some time).
But if you don’t pull the clutch, then it’s much less likely to lock the rear wheel, and moreover, you notice it much sooner because you can hear it from the engine.
People tend to think that locking the rear brake is not a big deal, but I don’t agree with that. We really should try to avoid it. A car pulled out right in front of me as I was approaching a green light. I braked but couldn’t stop on time, and I ended up swerving around the car. But if my rear wheel was locked, then I would have been unable to swerve and I would have crashed into the car. So it is important to not lock the rear wheel during an emergency, because it would have led to a serious accident.
Yeah exactly. I don't know why not being able to actually control the bike, for which the rear wheel needs to not be locked, would be even acceptable besides on some very specific and controlled environments.
Don't use the rear brake for emergency situations.problem solved.
In the UK we (or at least I) was taught to not clutch-in during emergency braking as you want the engine braking.
We are also taught to pull the clutch just before the stall point. We are also taught, in a "stopping at traffic light" situation, to use front brake first, then blend in rear brake, ending on rear brake for the last few mph.
Also taught to use engine braking and center-of-mass balance to stop either end of the bike "going light"
I, in France, was taught about the same, except in the "traffic light" situation, I was taught to use a bit of rear brake first to settle the bike, especially in the wet, so the bike does not dive as much when applying the front brake (also works for emergency braking). The key is to apply just a little bit of rear brake, so you don't lock up :) Try it ^^
But stop and go traffic clutch in is useful or if someone unexpectantly stops then clutch in front brake.
@@aidencoder I learned to ride many years ago but my wife wanted a scooter and only did her CBT a few years ago during covid lockdown. She was taught nothing about minding your centre of mass, leaning or about properly distributing weight between front and back wheels to safely stop or turn. That might be mainly big licence stuff, IDK, but for her to not get any of it concerned me a bit.
@@jakesolo2872 Nah we covered the basics of it in our CBT but I gather there can be quite a spread of how much is taught across different "schools".
@@BioFake1I would definitely avoid using that technique in emergency braking scenario
It is right to "depend" for the answer.
Clutch first for adding engine brake (downshift) when stop is anticipated.
Clutch last to avoid stall, after emergency brake when stop needed in sudden.
Я учился в японской автошколе с нуля. И самым первым делом нас учили, что существует 3 вида тормозов на мотоцикле: передние, задние и торможение двигателем. И пользоваться нужно всеми тремя. Всегда. Соответственно, когда тормозишь, сцепление не трогаешь вообще, и выжимаешь его только перед самой остановкой мотоцикла, чтобы не заглох.
My current driving school (Japan) is teaching to only pull the clutch before the bike comes to a complete stop to avoid engine stalling, but the initial process is strictly using front, rear and engine brake together. The same applies to emergency braking from ~ 40 kph, the clutch gets pulled when the main maneuver is already done, just to avoid the engine stalling out in the end. If you pull the clutch as you initiate the braking, they will eyeball you, even if you manage to come to a stop within the set limit.
Got my first bike last week. Yamaha FZS1000. I am being careful and taking time to learn this thing first, but your videos have helped a ton! I watched for a while before I even got a motorcycle and was able to apply a lot of your tips and it felt natural when I was at my MSF course. Definitely going to keep watching! Thanks for your videos!
You gotta start with a 2 liter motorcycle my guy 1 liter is too little for a beginner.
Thank you for reinforcing my gut instinct on this topic. Having only ridden 20 miles with 6 miles lot practice, I learned a lot after watching your videos. That made my next 20 miles a lot more enjoyable and informative.
A good video. However I have to say that for the majority of bikers who do not regularly practice emergency bracking pulling in the clutch early when in a straight line will be saver.
It will reduce the chance a wheel locking, prevent stalling when you need to get out of the path of the car behind you, and prevent accidently throttle roll on when grabbing the brake.
Accident investigators often conclude that a bike has accelerated into a crash due to this.
Finally, my hero made a video about corner braking! Why is it so hard to find this kind of info on TH-cam? I’ve been searching keywords exactly like this for ages! So many riders fall in corners, yet other TH-camrs talk more about race track lines or mountain carving. Most of us ride on regular streets! Thank you for this video, seriously.
I had this "always pull-in clutch" habit, now teaching myself not to do it unless necessary.
Love your content. As a fairly new rider, I love that you basically covered all the situations I've personally encountered, casual braking, braking entering/mid corner, emergency braking, etc. Even with 60h of motorcycle courses and 2k miles on my bike, I'm still learning and getting better because of your videos. Keep it up
Thank you. Only during a full stop (stop signal) or down shifting
As a new rider, want to say thank you all of your videos 🎉
i start riding motorcycle at 51 year old .
thanks to you Andrey ...... this is my second year with my suzuki intruder 400 classic.
Fantastic and detailed content! You could follow,up with even more detail to learn as a rider advances; e.g. when braking and reaching speeds below approximately 15 mph, transition from clutch lever out directly to friction zone (keeping power to rear wheel) giving the rider three quick options: execute evasive maneuver while staying in friction zone, open clutch and accelerate to escape, or pull in clutch only at complete stop - never in a coasting state while moving. After I was taught this technique, it changed my riding proficiency significantly on my very heavy touring bike.
Great content. The explanations are easy to understand and entertaining without being preachy.
Brilliant video again. I once downshifted midway through a chicane as my approach to the final corner was too fast and a split-second decision was engine braking would be better than grabbing a fistful of brake. The back end bucked like a fish, but luckily I was only on a 125 and it wasn't powerful enough to cause too many problems. I held it through the corner and the relief afterwards was like, "Ok, that was an object lesson of what not to do in future!"
I am begginer rider. Last week I had to do emergency break in low speed during riding through street cross. I understand that leaving clutch would be better but not this time. I panicked and pulled throttle. If I haven't pulled clutch i wouldn't break on time.
I saw your videos a few days ago and i just noticed today you were here in argentina, hahaha, that's amazing, i don't have a motorcycle but i'm really looking forward to it (still gotta learn to balance so i'll have to get a bicycle and learn enough, then jump to a motorcycle in the future)
great vids, love'em!
In "normal braking" I pull the clutch at the very last moment, just to avoid the engine to stall.
In "emegency braking" I pull the clutch right after I apply hard on the brakes. I do that because brakes apply more force than the engine´s coast force at any given time, so it doesn´t really matter if you pull the clutch or not when braking hard, it won´t reduce the stopping distance. The difference is that, in the end, you may have the engine stalled or not.
if u pull in the clutch too early then u just took away the engine braking,which mean its gonna take u a longer time to stop.which may be the difference between life and death.so yea it definitely matters.
Another amazingly informative video!
As weird as this may sound, most of what I know about riding, i've learned from this channel. No idea why it's basically unknown in the wider bike community.
I used to race motocross on a yamaha with a very slack steering angle. You had to pull in the clutch and downshift while you skidded the back in (cause it didn't turn). As soon as you skid the bike in the direction you want to go, you gassed it and dumped the clutch. I learned that engine braking is additional braking at the rear if you needed it. Otherwise, your brakes are all you need and you don't have to synchronize anything. Just make sure you are in the right gear when you exit. The additional side effect is that it also saves wear on your engine. It wears out when you gas it, but if you engine brake, it wears out the the cylinder even more cause you now load it to the other side of the cylinder that otherwise would get no load.
It's simple, you only use the clutch if it's about to stall
Depends what gear your in stop and go traffic. I do it out of habit.
Thanks for breaking this down the way you did! Good to know I'm on the right track, still much to work on.
I think it was a 40 year old tip to avoid shaking of the gear and rear wheel while engine-breaking at higher speeds and with less load on the rear hand while the front brake is engaged .The phenomenon hit chain-driven machines in the 80ies - later they used better dampers in the rear chain -wheel to avoid that . When the shaking took place you had to use the clutch , that was it .
Thank you for very good information, explained very well in detail. Now I want to ask a couple questions. Being an old man and getting back into riding with a RE 350 I feel like I am so smooth and in control. But, riding in the city, going into a turn I have this habit of shifting so smoothly up to 2d or 3d gear while balancing and holding the line of the turn. Right foot covering the rear brake because that is what so many instructors on YT advise. SO I am pulling in the clutch. You think that is all right?
Second question is down-shifting in that curve. If I have to slow down or stop suddenly I would engage the clutch to down-shift while using both brakes and hope and have good enough balance to control my machine. I am reluctant to use the front brake hard unless in an emergency panic situation and now you make me afraid to use the rear brake hard because I could lock that wheel and crash. In that case I think it is right to quickly clutch in to gear-down and use the engine for braking safely, relatively.
What do you think?
So it is basically the same as riding a car, especially in the snow.
But I also saw a couple of videos about the engine break-in where people were saying that engine braking may lead to low oil pressure, poor engine lubrication and overheat, especially on low displacement engines like 125cc. Maybe not in the city, but during a long downhill ride. However, after this video I found lots of articles saying that it is a myth, and oil pump works well even during engine braking
Yep, anyone who believes that myth has no idea how an oil pump works.... it must come from the 2 stroke days.
Прекрасный английский! Но по акценту как те русские из голливудских фильмов, 😂 хотя это совсем не бесит и не мешает, а даже придаёт какой то шарм. Главное очень грамотно и понятно!
По качеству и локоничности транслируемой инфы, - просто 10 из 10! Отличный канал и не только для новичков, судя по тому нонсенсу который иногда выдают "бывалые", - всем сюда! - на повышение квалификации!
Спасибо за труд. 😀👍✌️
Main thing is to wiggle the clutch before starting the bike to un-stick the clutch plates (as per Del)
Also known as the "ripple smooth clutching" technique!
Interestingly, the only time I’d say to pull in the clutch a little, is if spontaneously (due to bad clutch cable adjustment) the bike shifts from 4th to 3rd by itself as the dogs haven’t fully engaged and it can slip out. Especially if you’re near the redline and sorta mid corner at a decent speed. Slow the bike down with the front whilst pulling the clutch in a little bit to reduce the wheel chatter as the rear wheel will lock up. Once u feel that it’s started to spin again, slowly engage the clutch again and clean your underpants.
really good for beginers, excelent explaination. best regards from the Azores
again a very clear explanation and learning points, thank you 👍
I didn't get much braking practice during licensing (besides rear brake for slow speed maneuvers). Lately I have been practicing braking from 3rd gear at 35km/h (150cc) where I do progressive front braking, downshift and release the clutch, continue braking, downshift and release clutch again.
Although one issue I had when I got my motorcycle recently was barely ever using the brakes, and relying almost completely on engine braking, so I'm training myself to use the brakes while maintaining the habit of engine braking.
Thank you i learned a lot from you.
It's a complex issue, in straight line it is more forgiving, but its certainly someting that can only be learned with a lot of practice. Driving a manual shifted car will have an advantage, but it's not a replacement. If one is fluent in manual shifted cars it makes the time learning the trick of lifting or not lifting your clutch a bit shorter though.
Nothing complex about it
@@slimfit767 if you get used, it’s simple. But if you’re a beginner, never had to deal with clutches and gearshifts, you have to manage throttle (slight), then release clutch (slow), while you’re doing it, very slightly increase throttle. Starters already have issues throttling, they don’t use wrist, but arm. Then if you release the clutch a bit to fast, the forces will make you throttle up (almost violently) and off you go, wheelie around (with more powerful bikes)
@@Mus.Anonymouse true,which is why beginners are advised to get low powered bikes.
I guess I'm quite fortunate in having a QS, ABS and a slipper clutch... so much easier, never had any scares.
dang I miss j turn ❤ snake 10yr ago was something truly magical
👍🏻 Excellent! - as usual
1:04, omg, that had to give her a concussion!
Nowdays many bike engine cutoff including mine if you press clutch after revving. If rich mixture is going and you take clutch the sensor cuts the engine off. 😐
amazing advice.
thank you this is very useful information
Yes, when you stop
ride carefully
just two hours ago, i had a near-crash situation
stay awake, ride safely
Danke, du auch, wie ein alter Verkäufer bei einem Händler mir vorm Testfahrt gesagt hat: Bleib sitzen :-D
Aber Ich habe gedacht, Prüfer machen keine Fehler ;-P
Like with all these videos, it's great to understand but it's very little use unless you find a place to practice. You won't have time to think in a real world situation
First of all, thanks a lot for spending your valuable time to impart proper knowledge about motor vehicles and riding gear to people And please,suggest me the right body position while cornering on public roads (not for track).
I suggest neutral body position😊 I have a video about it if you are interested: th-cam.com/video/31FCJgOnoiQ/w-d-xo.html
They always say all down all the time when stopping. But I've found it's not always necessary
In the case of the throttle hangs, I always clutch and brake in amergencies.
Not in corners thogh.
Great content as always. Can you make a video on how to be a good pillion rider? So I can send it to the gf and tell her "its not me saying this honey, listen to the professionals" :)
Could be interesting knowing how work the Honda E-Clutch when you use the friction lever.
Did it disigange the gear, as happen with the traditional approach, or it give only an electronic input, to cut it off?
In the context of this video, a moto with a solution with permanent gear on, seem the best solution, to many potential issue.
thank you
you literally learn to brake like this in my driving lessons (netherlands)
My favourite motocycle riding Channel 🛵. Every time good content and positive attitude
1:43 cyclist blowing a red light, gotta love those dorks
I HAVE BEEN RIDING FOR 5 YEARS NOW AND I CAN’T BELIEVE IT! WHY DIDN’T I LEARN ABOUT THIS BEFORE?!?
WHAAAATT?
Why are you yelling?
Skill issue. I learned by myself
Because nobody has ever explained it before.
@@bruceleidl2562 netiquette is how to act on the “internet”.. ‘social behavior’ doesn’t require motorcycle experience. This person must have rolled a high Luck skill if going on 5 years with zero knowledge of engine breaking, slowing down, stopping properly, etc and they’re still rolling on two wheels!
I don't. Use both engine braking + front braking.
I pull in the clutch when I'm down to around 8mph and decelerating to a stop.
It's not complicated. If it's an emergency don't disengage the clutch as you're getting rid of useful engine braking. If it's not an emergency, sure disengage for comfort and smooth riding.
In an emergency you have to pull in the clutch,unless u wanna stall. Its all about when u clutch in,not if.
@@slimfit767 but for beginner bikers it will be normal if they confront such situation to pull clutch + braking imediatelly of realizing emergency braking is needed
What about in curves?
Do we keep traction or do we play with the clutch to smooth out (especially twin cylinders)?
U only use the clutch in very tight corners
07:05 Where the heck is that corner!?!🤷🏽♀️
rev matching while downshifting slows down the bike more quickly. Right???
If you don't revmatch it might be quicker but may wear the components so do it smoothly
Kind of, depending on how exactly the process is done. If you are keeping the revs high - yes, the engine braking will be higher. But if your braking is already fast enough to lift the rear tire - it will make no difference, for obvious reasons!
Ride your own ride and do you.
❤❤❤❤
Yanks just don’t understand what a clutch is for - give them a scooter with a centrifugal so they just have to use their righthand
Unrelated but I love the point where motorbiker are stopping for the red traffic light and the normale bike doesn‘t give the slightest damn about it
Not for braking, but another important use for the clutch: Rev bombing.
Whats the simple answer man,?? Irritating
For someone obsessed with safety showing all thise stoppies when breaking seems daft. Folk will want to so it.
He's not doing stoppies to show off. He's showing what happens during significant braking. Much better for noobs to know what will happen than freak out if the rear wheel lifts.
1:03 im speechless and jealous. How tf do you even manage to do that.
doing what?
haha
just get a on overpowered first bike
Full throttle, dump the clutch and never question your decisions😁
F no you shouldnt
This video meshes very nicely with the French one specially about the trail braking. Its like, do you know each other and coordinate video releases?
th-cam.com/video/1L7-KV4UesI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=1pk5VlkGc1_s5Frn
Not even going to watch the video, because the fact that this video needed doing (allegedly) is quite frankly embarrassing. If you’re one of those that thought using the clutch in the break zone is a thing… please ensure the safety of all other road users and hand in your driving licence. Or better still, step off the world… thank you!