Subaru is trying to comply with CAFE standards for cost of ownership and would rather replace transmissions. I always recommend following the severe service schedule in the owners manual.
Your Correct Troy! Just follow the service schedule and go to your Dealer (where you purchased the vehicle). Your Subaru will last 200,000 miles, or at least 150,000miles. To date, the Forester and Outback are ranking highest in longevity. The CVTs are 'much better' transmission now but not for all auto makers. Again, you get what you pay for.....
Is that right? Well then what should I do if there are service manuals that say one thing, but service manuals for the exact same vehicle in a different market (or country) that says something else? And how am I supposed to trust my dealership when they say the fluid lasts "life"? Or when they refuse to allow me to observe the work to make sure it's being done at all?
@@jupitercyclops6521 So do you only go to the dentist when you have a bad tooth ache or do you go in for a regular cleaning with a check up. The service is done to avoid a big expense. The CVT should be changed every 60k and if you don't like the level of service or trust at the dealer go to a shop you can trust.
@@troyfankell6581 I want to but I'm also afraid they're gonna charge me some sort of $400 diagnostics fee. I feel it shouldn't cost anything if the transmission is having an issue.
Here in Canada, they recommend changing cvt fluid at 60k miles (100k km). Never had any problems and the dealer we deal with says they can go 300k km easy. Actually they had one with 300k, owner never changed fluid and transmission finally went out at 300k km. We are very loyal to the Subaru brand, and will continue to do so if they continue making excellent products.
@@51249ca good to read these, we are loyal subaru buyers, and just bought our 1st cvt in a 2017 forester supreme. Dealer said not to change the cvt fluid until the shop recommends it, which is likely never. I'd never mess w/ it DIY.
@@TheBassfresh I will clarify that that particular dealer said the first fluid change would be at the 100k (kms) mark. I didn't ask them about subsequent fluid change intervals.
just had the fluid changed on my 2014 Forester with CVT at 100k kms, no problems. My 2016 Outback 3.6 though is starting to shudder on accelerating at 88k kms. Dealer changed the fluid but it has not helped. We'll see how long before they swap out my CVT....
One of the reasons I recommend checking what the Japanese service manuals recommend for engine oil too. Often different from the US manuals and intended more for protection than fuel economy. Ridiculous that they change standards for the USA just to essentially meet standards and lie to us about cost of ownership. Of course changing fluid is a good idea. XD
Is there some way we can find the Subaru Japan or Subaru of Canada manuals or maintenance schedule online? My Google-Fu is failing me. I would like to print it out to show my local dealer when the time comes.
A wise man, mechanic and my mentor told me one time many years ago, he said, “ you can never “over change” any fluid on your car. You won’t hurt anything...ever. As long as you use the right fluids and change them properly. And I never have had any oil related problem on any new vehicle I’ve ever owned in my life and I’ve been fortunate to own several new vehicles. Any person that listened to me and followed this advice has had the same results as well. So, listen to Mr. Subaru, because he is telling you basically the same thing.
The fluid change doesn't destroy the transmission, it just let's you know how bad a shape it was in. Lol. I filmed a whole 10min clip with this on why you shouldn't service a high mileage transmission, if it hasn't been regularly serviced its whole life.
If a dealership refuses to do a CVT service, go somewhere else! The place I work at does CVT services daily AND replaces valve bodies outside of warranty almost daily. The fluid definitely brakes down and will gum up a valve body just like a normal AT will get gummed up. Never changing the fluid WILL also lead to chain slip, which will cut grooves into the "gear ratio" drums. If you want to see a car buck around like a bull at a rodeo, watch a subaru with bad chain slip... Though the 4 wheel burnout it could do when the chain randomly catches can be fun to watch.
A bit late as this video is 2 years old. But yeah we had a novice lube tech drain the cvt on an impreza. Fortunately our shop has 2 masters myself being one and could correct the problem. Being a new Subaru owner i find your channel utterly fantastic.
Someone should do a fluid analysis of CVT fluid with 100k miles on it and compare it to the new fluid in the bottle. That should be able to debunk the lifetime fluid. I feel the same way about the 20k mile oil. It would be crazy to think that "20k mile"oil with 10k miles on it is just as good as the standard synthetic oil fresh out of the bottle.
I just serviced mine (tr580) at 100k for the first time. The pan was starting to leak a little, so I decided to drop the pan and reseal it. The fluid was obviously darker than new, but still had a green tint to it. There was no burnt smell. There was very little swarf on the magnet. I only refilled what drained when I took the pan off (about 5.5 qts). I see no need to flush it. BTW, this Outback doesn't see hard use. It does not tow and it is not used off-road.
I would take Mr Subaru's word on servicing the CVT, but good luck finding someone who knows what they are doing, if Subaru of America don't recommend the service, probably most dealer techs don't get training on it, training is money!!
We stopped servicing our 2017 Forester at the dealership that we purchased the vehicle from in the Phoenix area because they insisted that we replace (flush) the CVT fluid at 30K. We called every other dealership within 100 miles and they all said 45K or 60K or further out. We also called Subaru of America in New Jersey and basically got obfuscation (vague none-answer). We now get the vehicle serviced at another new dealership. Given that this service is priced over $450, this is not an easy service to get before we really need to. We are senior citizens, retired and drive conservatively. Most all our miles are long distance Interstate, but as photographers we have probably driven a total of 200 miles off road. If you can recommend the right mileage to have this done, we will do so based on the fact that we trust you more than any other adviser. Thanks.
I believe that maintenance cost is the reason why Subaru of America calls it a lifetime fluid. Subaru's have higher maintenance costs than a typical front wheel drive car (Toyota) because of the front/rear differentials, spark plugs at 60K vs. 100K and engine oil changes at 6K vs. 10K.
Your driving in severe temps every summer. They 100% told you the right interval for your area. If you are going to keep the car for the long haul why wouldnt you protect a 6k dollar cvt.
@@stclair1987 Thanks Greg. The issue now is that I got three different recommendations from the three dealers (all dealers in the same region, Phoenix). One said 30k miles, another 45k and still another 60k. So, who is correct?
I agree on everything you said! I just had independent Subaru shop in Arizona drop and fill my tr690 in my 2015 wrx with 240,000 on it! It's a cvt that was new put in under warranty at 99,000 miles 😁 I had it first serviced at 160,000 I used Subaru HTV for both times! It's shifting like butter still! All the miles I've put on it I've always let my engine and Cvt fully warm up before I have any fun in it!👍🤙🙌😁
The fact that Subaru corporate gives out different info about CVT's scares me. Seems like they SHOULD be consistent. If not, why not? It literally keeps me from buying one.
@@pingpongballz5998 I replaced a few of them for bearing noises but those were early models 2011-2013. I would do a lot of reflashes for shifting concerns. I'm sure the new models have improved but I'll know more about that after I get my 2021 Forester.
My 2013 Crosstrek Limited has 210k miles on the original CVT. Only had a valve body replacement at 171k miles. My brother's 2011 Outback 2.5i Limited is at 230k miles on his original CVT.
TEH 60…I have a clunking noise in reverse on my 4 EAT TRANS…Warms up…it’s fine…? Never has done this as long as I have had it…This car has been babied all its life …2001 Subaru Forester
I've been doing a DIY drain and fill every 25K with Subaru's CVT fluid using a Launch scan tool to monitor temps. I get 5.5 quarts of my 2016 Legacy. I do have the FSM and follow the procedure to the letter. I've drained and fill both the front and rear differentials using Amsoil's severe gear 75W-90. I've had no issues what so ever. I actually added a Hayden 678 trans cooler, an Improve Racing 165F thermostat and an external magnefine filter inline with the factory warmer. The hottest my temps get for the CVT is 178F on a hill climb. It sits around 169/171F during normal operation fully warmed up. Prior to the cooler my Legacy was going up to 215F and my wife's Forester was hovering around 200F consistently. As everybody knows, heat breaks down fluid over time. I've done the above services and modification for both my 2016 Legacy and my wife's 2017 Forester. The CVT temps run identical on both cars when warmed up.
I asked engineers at my work about the CVT fluid. They came up with it should be good for about 80,000 miles so that is what I’m going by. My 2016 Crosstrek now has 85,000 miles on it and still going great.
Im in Australia and my 2016 liberty 3.6 sedan , its at 100,000 kilometres and I got my mechanic to flush and change. I can say cvt is running much smoother.
Thanks for the good advice. I got a 2011 outback with a Tr690 transmission at 90k miles. It now has 130k and the AT oil temp light started flashing after driving a couple miles and I could smell the transmission getting hot. Changed about 7qts of transmission fluid and no more overheating…for now :)
I'll give my one data point - We own a '17 Forester XT 2.0 Turbo (built in Fall 2016), now with 52,000 miles. We used it to tow a 1,000 lb teardrop trailer (that's the max weight for a brakeless trailer per Subaru USA) from the US west coast to St. John's Newfoundland and back in Sept 2019, a total of 11,000 miles with at least 10,000 of those miles during the trip with the trailer hitched-up. I'm a careful reader of my owner's manual, and I drew the conclusion that if anything was "severe driving", we had just done it. But I also was nervous about asking for a maintenance service that few other owners are doing and which is expensive; I have plenty of well-founded fears that dealer service departments can make dumb mistakes. The CVT's performance before, during, and after our long trip had been excellent and consistent, with no complaints (other than inherent normal CVT behavior). My decision was, go ahead and get a CVT fluid change, which I did at Carter Subaru in Seattle, back several months ago. It was a success, with no noticeable issues to today, several thousand miles later. I certainly don't believe Carter Subaru is perfect, but in their favor they have a long continuity of Subaru business, and very large sales volume all that time. I might have decided differently if I had had to choose a service facility with less experience.
I live in CT and my dealer recommends changing the fluid every 60,000 miles...they did tell me Subaru does not recommend servicing the CVT but that they did recommend it as there is no such thing as a life time fluid. Next time In buying a standard transmission. I have a 2016 Forrester
My dealer in MI also goes by 60k, and they charge $250 for a complete fluid exchange (not a high-pressure flush). So far I and many other CVT Subie owners in my area are doing fine with no problems. I'd do it myself since it's not that hard but I'd rather have only the dealer touch it so that there's proof that only they opened it.
I have a 2017 Crosstrek with 47,000 miles. I am going to contact my local Subaru dealer about CVT service. I totally agree with you that there is no such thing as "lifetime" fluid. You would think that SOA would encourage CVT periodic service. Hopefully my local Subaru dealer agrees with me. Besides, who would turn down work right now with most people staying at home? Automatic transmissions, regardless of type, see a lot of heat. We all know heat breaks down fluid so it only makes sense to replace it periodically. Thanks for posting the video.
Subaru US has a limited Powertrain Warranty of 5 years/60,000 miles, They want no CVT fluid change during the warranty period which may hold them responsible for damages. Past the warranty period they couldn't give a damn what you do with your CVT. 'lifetime' fluid for Subaru US means 5 years/60,000 miles
I would service the CVT too. But I think I would meet Subaru half way and do a service at 60k + 6yr+. But Subaru also increased the warranty on the CVT for my 18 CrossT as well as other models. Knowing that I might also just leave the CVT alone and if and when it does develop issues, bring it in and decide what to do from there. If the CVT remains sealed that rules out any foul play on my part. Maybe im crazy but I have always put transmissions into the category of "if it aint broke don't fix it." But to each his own. dont forget your software updates either! haha!
My local dealer told me 100k miles for our Ascent. The dealer I bought it from told me it needed to be serviced every 24k miles since we do tow with it. Subaru of America gave no discernible answer.
I just had my fluid flushed at the dealer up in Northern Canada with their fancy machine. They replaced 18.9L in total, and I do have to report that the TR580 in my 16 Outback shifts an rides much more smoothly. I have a marked improvement in throttle response, and my torque converter lurching on take-off has been much less noticeable. Total cost from the dealership was $400 tax-in (CAD). They tried to charge me an extra $150 for additional fluid, but I insisted on paying the cost quoted as this was a routine service, and they honored it. Subaru of Canada recommends flushes at every 100,000km due to our climate and elevation. The fluid that drained was certainly darker, but didn't look or smell like it was broken down too badly. I assume this is due to the high fluid capacity. If you're considering changing your fluid, I suggest doing it regularly. This Outback has 190,000km (118,000 miles) at the time of the flush, and I will be doing it again around 300,000 km (186,000 mi) assuming it makes it there.
I just checked the Subaru Canada website for our 2023 Forester Wilderness. It recommends changing the fluid every 100,000 kms or 5 years. If that's what they suggest, that's what I will do. The last thing I need is to have an issue with a transmission because I didn't maintain it properly to save $300.
I just bought a 2018 Forester and it only had 24k miles on it. It’s still 6 years old and sat around a lot so i changed the tranny fluid. Not a flush though. I’m glad i did it.
My 2010 Legacy has the CVT. I have 254k miles on it. I bought the vehicle with 28k on the odometer, and to my knowledge it has never been serviced aside from when I had the Torque Converter changed under warranty a couple years ago.
Btw what is CVT in Forester 2017? How reliable is it? Currently have 36000 miles and don’t mind to pay to change the liquid but really afraid of loosing the warranty Subaru have me for CVT - 100.000 or 10 years. Thoughts?
Your last video began to reassure me that buying a Subaru with a CVT was okay. Since I would have to, at this point, buy a used one. I can't afford to replace a $7,000 transmission at 100,000 miles. I hate to walk away from the absolute best AWD system there is. We have driven all over the US in all kinds of weather. So said the direction Subaru is going. Keep up the good honest information you provide. I have worked on all of our Subarus and know when to take the car in for service and work. Again, thanks for the info.
I take my 2015 Outback 25i in fr an oil change every 3 months ( drive very low miles, delivery Nov 2014 current miles 26,000). While I get the oil changed I have other services performed such as brake fluid change, transfer case oil change etc. I had the CVT fluid changed, but got an argument from the service manager regarding the need for the service. I indicated the vehicle was 5 yrs from delivery so just change the fluid. I was told the fluid change was 100k miles, to which I said, I am the customer just do what I ask. On my next appt. Oct. 11 I am having all the hoses change along with the serpentine belt, just due to age. I have performed this style of maintenance on my vehicles for years and never got stuck on the side of the road with the hood up. My son does the same and his 2017 Imprezza is close to 90k miles, and he has never been broken down with his vehicle either.
ease of maintenance should be a high priority in any car's design. i hate that so many cars have moved towards "lifetime fluids" and requiring special tools to even check your fluid levels. ridiculous! that's why my "new" car is a 1995 and I love it. i hope it keeps going for another 10 years cuz every time i have to work on a newer car I hate them even more!
Never serviced my 15 Forester cvt. Made it to 50k no issue even had the engine shut down on my a few times climbing sand dunes that ended up being way to steep. My 18 Forester xt though, I plan on servicing this cvt every 25-30k due to the increase load placed on the transmission from the turbo. Go with Japan's service recommendations. They design it, They build it, they rework poor designs, before sending it to a mass production factory that most likely is in Japan. I think Subaru America is banking on the culture of extended warranties covering these issues and if a consumer here's rumors that their new cars transmission is a ticking time bomb then they will jump for that extended coverage when offered.
Great information. Thanks. I WAS going to help my sons roommate change the fluid in his 2013 but i don't think a novice such as myself should not touch it
The question about "sealed for life" auto transmissions has been causing me concern, About 6 months ago I purchased a 2010 Subaru Outback with CVT transmission and 146K on the clock. I had the car checked out at a local firm led by a former Subaru Service department manager, who gave the car, including the CVT a clean bell of health. Now the Outback has just covered 150 K and been received its "log book" service. The Subaru log book clearly states that the CVT requires no service. Ive seen JC's statement (in the above video) and several other TH-cam posters, strongly recommending the need to change the CVT fluid at regular intervals. Accordingly, yesterday I went to my local authorised Subaru dealer (Cricks Tweed Heads) to find out costs and other details about changing my Outback's CVT fluid. Firstly the Parts manager told me that the CVT fluid would cost me $35 AUD per litre; and was only available in 20 litre drums; that right $700. If I used their own service department I would only be charged for the amount of fluid used. Then I approached the "Service Manager" who absolutely declined to do the job because it was not recommended by Subaru. I'd appreciate feedback from all those interested in this problem.
I bought a Volkswagen phaeton... the service record showed the transmission service by the dealer performed... it was never performed , what is a person to do ? Some dealers are criminals.
I love the 'lifetime fluid' nonsense. Sure, if I never change the fluid and the transmission suicides itself after 100,001km, that was indeed the lifetime of the transmission. It's like some kind of bad gotcha joke.
Yes I agree ! I’ll give Subaru credit for making a fairly reliable car to 120k but after that they are screwing everyone on these transmission repairs and replacements and you really don’t know what they did but you can be sure the repair bill will be outrageous
For Subaru of America it is lifetime because cars lifetime is meant to be 5 years and then you are just meant to buy another car just like almost all other brands nowadays. Marvels of planned obsolesence... And manual versions get more scarce and not many everyday customers would go for manuals in USA
Good info. I sold my 13 legacy because the Subaru reman transmission was acting funny again, just like it was doing before being replaced under the extended warranty. I just bought a CPO 19 Forester and have fill factory warranty till 100k or 7 years, which I have over 4 years and 75k left. Since I'm only at 26k, I will be replacing my CVT fluid at 36k and same with my wife's 21 Ascent just to make sure the transmissions last.
gracias Mrsubaru por aclarar mi duda de cambiar el oil pan, tengo actualmente una XV 2013 con 67.000km y a los 80.000 cambiaré el aceite de la caja de cambios CVT, un abrazo
I just changed the cvt fluid on my moms crosstrek. I did research about this service 3 months in advanced before even touching her car. Changed it at 36,000 miles and its running fine so far. The fluid that came out was just about as clean as what I put in, which, I used Subaru CVT-F II, and its been running perfectly ever since. Now, that being said, i would change the fluid ever 30 to 60k max. I dont listen to the manufacturer and go by what I and others know
This is an excellent explanation of when you should and shouldn’t get in over your head as a DIYer. I tried to change a PS rack on my old Impreza I had and I ended up having to take to my mechanic to finish what I started. I personally never change fluids except for oil and coolant occasionally. Hopefully you don’t cringe after me saying that but it’s just something I’ve never done. It’s messy and I feel if the car is driving smoothly don’t bother it. That said I agree with your entire explanation and point of view and believe that no fluid is life time, that being said I’ll probably leave my fluid alone unless I start having issues.
I just had my 2017 Forester CVT fluid changed at 60k miles for the first time. I purchased it brand new. The local Subaru dealership recommended changing it at 80k. The manual just says to 'inspect' every 30k miles or so. Because I drive in what is considered 'severe' conditions, I was willing to service the CVT if necessary. My mechanic showed me a sample of my CVT fluid and recommended changing it although he said it wasn't absolutely necessary. He also checked the front and rear differential gear oil and spark plugs (per Subaru 60k mile inspection) and said that they were all fine and did not need changing. The mechanic performed a drain and fill and used Subaru brand fluid. I decided to have AAMCO perform the service because they specialize in transmissions and they were a little cheaper than my dealership.
A Walmart in California drained my Trans instead of Oil on my 2005 XT forester. The technician didn’t put any fluid back into the trans. I drove 1 mile and returned to the shop. I never forgave myself for trusting Walmart with my beloved forester.
Don’t know if this comment has already been made, but if you look at Subaru’s maintenance schedule for the CVT, it recommends fluid replacement every 30,000 miles IF you tow with your CVT equipped Subbie. Hmmm…
My dealer in MI recommends changing CVT fluid every 60k, and they have good results to back it up. They charge $250ish to do it, I guess that's not bad so I'll have them do it until I get to 100k when the extended transmission warranty is up and after that I'll do it myself.
So if I get the CVT fluid changed before 100,000 miles I'm running the risk of voiding the Subaru of America warranty... But if I wait that long I will miss 3 change intervals according to Subaru Canada/Japan and could actually lessen the life of the transmission. That's a tough one!
If you change it yourself, outside of having the dealership do it, and mess up, yes, you can void the warranty. If Subaru dealership does it, it won't void the warranty.
@@perro7183 they probably want you to tell them it's been operating under severe conditions so they can deny you a new transmission for not getting it changed enough
"Subaru USA does not recommend servicing the CVT, but Subaru Japan does"?? Throw away mentality of the US. They just want to sell you a new one. Proof: I left the dealer yesterday, they do not service or repair CVT's, but will happily replace it "because its starting to slip" for just 8.5K!
Just purchased a 2020 outback premium 2.5....Large Dealership Brand in Dallas, Texas said replace fluid every 60,000 miles. they also said to replace front and rear diff fluid every 30,000 miles. just another datapoint from a recent conversation from a tech-turned-service writer at Large Dealership Brand
My personal opinion matches yours. No automotive fluid is life-time. This is not bourbon, to get better the more it ages... Can you share your thoughts on another topic - should I re-learn the transmission after fluid change, or only if the CVT has been overhauled. What does the re-learning actually do?
I have info to add if you drive your CVT in rude environement like towing load regularly, driving offroad, heavy traffic on long period or on really hot temperature, you should replace your CVT fluid more frequently like 50K km. Other tool you can use Bluetooth OBDII reader with a good apps ( me use veepeak with carscanner apps), i have the sensor read CVT oil temp & oil life CVT in %.
Thank you for this advice Sir. I don't have a CVT Transmission. I'm thinking of getting a Subaru in the next few years. You make some really great informative videos. I would assume you could do a cold drain, measure what is drained and pump the same amount back into the CVT transmission. I have been using this same "drain and fill" procedure on my regular automatic transmissions for years with no issues.
Love your logic assuming no leaks. I've done it this way too for every fluid. You don't need a scan tool. Fluid level is not a precise requirement. The manufacturers eliminated the dipstick with a fluid range level so they can complicate the procedure and sell you a service. Read the fine print in the warranty if you skip a service. Even my Nissan Murano with a CVT had a dipstick with range marks. If the fluid level was so critical there would not be a range on the dipstick.
@@MrSubaru1387 any info on the 22 wrx cvt transmission??? if its serviceable reason being changed the rear differential and it defiantly needed to be replace with new differential fluid it looked like metallic paint when drained it...
I think the whole thing with regards to not servicing the CVT is lower cost of ownership, but in the end it costs you more to not service the CVT than if you were to service it properly at a 36,000 mile interval. Toyota told me the same thing on my Prius C that I had a lifetime CVT fluid in it. I drained it and refilled it with 4-quarts or so at 75,000 miles. I did a drain and refill of the CVT on my 2016 Forester as well. If the car manufacturers can tout a cheaper cost of ownership then on paper it will show a customer it's cheaper to own than a competitor, but this hurts the consumer who wants to keep their car 100k+ miles. Seems like all manufacturers just want minimum specs for a car to hit 100k miles in the US and they want a lower cost of ownership compared to their competitors stretching out oil change intervals to 10,000 miles and never servicing the CVT is what Toyota now recommends to its customers. Trying to compete with EVs on low cost of ownership to 100k miles is why we are where are with maintenance costs is my speculation, but even EVs need tires, brakes, rotors, cabin air filters, and coolant flushes to run properly, so they're not maintenance free as they claim to be. The only real things EVs don't have are oil changes and CVT/AT fluid changes like gas cars do.
Great covering both sides of the debate. I agree iwht MrSubaru. One question that was not answered and I don't know if it can. As an owner of 2020 Outback (past waranty), if I took it inot a Subaru dealer and requested CVT service, I'm sure they would gladly take my money. What are the chances that the service would be done absolutely correctly without any ill-fated outcomes? If done incorrectly, even at a dealer, and the CVT fails past the service waranty, your in place where it would have probably been better off to leave it alone. Another point is that all parts when first fitted wear. I'd see a place for servicing after 20k miles and then every 100k after that. The first wear-in miles is the fluid you want to replace.
I’ve heard that the reasoning of Subaru of America on “lifetime” fluid vs other countries is to keep maintenance costs down. Presumably for cost comparisons with other manufacturers.
YES, YES, YES please service your CVT. Had a Nissan w/CVT and they swore it was NOT to be serviced. Started having slip issues at 102K miles. Did a drain and fill 3 times (drain, fill, drive 3 miles….repeated twice till it drained clean on last one). Car drove like new after that and was simple to do. I will NOT do that to my Subaru and I’m convinced it MUST be done on all vehicles. “Lifetime” fluid is a myth.
My old Corolla had the easiest ATF fluid change. Literally hand pumped it out of the dipstick into a jug, poured the same amount I took out back in. $20 synthetic fluid, back on the road for another 30k miles. I miss dipsticks. I'll have Subaru replace the fluid at 30k since I like our Ascent. I pretend its my dream WRX wagon when I drive it.
There’s a degree of fear with it. I’ve seen quotes from forums and Reddit where people have to choose between junking the car or spending $6k or more for a refurbished one through their dealership. Just not convinced this thing will last longer than 10 years in an urban/city type of setting. Would be different if they could actually repair them rather than need to replace all the time, or if the CVTF service wasn’t so complicated.
People ask me why somebody my age would change their own oil (and other fluids). Too many lessons learned, mostly by other people, that quickie lube places, etc are not to be trusted to not screw up something as simple as an oil change. Last time I went to one (years ago), drain plug fell out of my car some time later, apprently only finger tight. Luckily it just finished draining completely as I pulled into my garage and I noticed the trail of fluid. Thankfully, that car never burned a drop of oil after that incident. Needless to say, I've always done my own changes since then.
CVT as with millions of acronyms has become both an adjective and noun, so "CVT transmission" is *entirely* correct, as "CVT" modifies the noun "transmission". O.k. so I totally "buy" servicing the CVT. How to go about finding a competent, trustworthy tech to perform this for me ? By the way, I have a 2021 Forester -- how to know which transmission model have I ?
I just signed a 3yr/54k mile lease on a '21 Crosstrek Premium, my first Subaru with a CVT. I drive almost 20k miles a year, mostly highway commuting, not a ton of big hills, so I'm pretty easy-going on my cars, but I'm also used to having my Subaru transmission fluid (manual or auto, I've owned both) replaced every 30k miles. My service manager told me that having the fluid replaced will not void the warranty, but that it's also a lifetime fluid. I am also of the opinion that no fluid is lifetime. *Sigh* Sooo, I'm thinking of kinda splitting the difference and having it replaced at 60k miles, if I so choose to keep the car and buy it out.
Input from Israel/Hebrew owner's manual - they only mention to check the CVTF every other service (30K KM) but in the comments mention that if you use the car under severe conditions (example given is towing) you should replace it every 45K KM. since i'm at 44K KM ill try and get the fluid replaced at the next scheduled maintenance. I'm hearing here that workshops dont like/recommend doing it..
You change your oil every 5k miles. Change your transmission fluid at 30k (at the dealer, where it's proven time-and-time again that their method doesn't kill the transmission). It's logical if you want to keep the car a long time.
Subaru Corp Japan ( 3 years- 36,000 ) Subaru Canada (50,000 Kilometers ) Subaru USA ( Lifetime Fluid). How a car mfg cannot come to terms and what time or miles CVT Fluid should be replaced.
MrSubaru1387 If you check Subaru Canada it says every 100,000 Kilometres. I have a 2019 Crosstrek and I’ll be changing it every 50,000 Kilometres because I’m not taking any chances lol and doing everything at the dealership just to be on the safe side.
Hi. Got out my warranty/ maintenance booklet. Maintenance is supposed to be every 10,000 km or 6mo. There are 4 levels, A, B, C and D. A and B are basically oil changes and inspections. C is similar but adds replacing brake fluid and servicing fuel injectors C Is at 3y or 60,000km Service D is 5y or 100,000km. It adds replacing spark plugs, and changing transmission and differential fluids. Hope this clears things up. Good job.
My problem is that being a former Mercedes tech I also work on all my vehicles and it's hard for me to take my 18 outback to the dealer at all BUT because they are the only ones allowed to do the fluid changed WITHOUT voiding the warranty. I'm left with no choice but to do that. I wish I could do it on my own but something like this is not worth voiding the warranty and better off paying for service.
Mr. Subaru the best. I just think that you should drain the CVT fluid and replace as much as you drain and that’s good enough. What do you thank? Thanks
Awesome as always! My 2016 Crosstrek is just about at that "old change interval" point. Local dealer (that I do trust) advertises something like $300 to flush and replace fluid. I'll have to ask what they'd charge to just do a drain and refill. (I don't have the facilities to even do that at home). That'll probably get half or so but if you do it regularly, it turns it over enough IMHO. Thanks!
Hello Mr. Subaru, I'm a fan of your channel. Love the videos 👍🏼 Question regarding the CVT transmission. If you had a 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i with 150,000 miles and the CVT transmission has never been serviced, would you still service it even though it has 150,000 miles of mostly highway miles with your usual stop and go traffic? Thanks hope to hear your your opinion ✌🏽
Yes absolutely unlike an automatic transmission where sometimes the grit and clutch materials in the fluid are sometimes the only thing keeping them going there isn’t clutch pacs in a CVT so you are perfectly good doing that
My 2015 Forester is showing failures in several systems, including EyeSight, ABS, and requires a transmission tear down, including new fluid, while replacing the sensor (s). Had I known about this issue, I would never had bought a Subaru. Sensor failure is a significant flaw in an otherwise excellent car. Mine has 195,000 Km on it. Not happy.
I've never been a 3000 mile oil change guy. Anything less than 5000 and I feel wasteful. However automatic transmissions (cvt, torque converter, etc), I always over change them for some reason. I have 214K on a very abused Jeep transmission. It gets changed almost as much as the engine oil though. I think in the US they go for lowest cost of ownership. We know the FB engines are capable of 7500 mile intervals but they had to lower that because people kept running them dry. So they shortened it. But that's why transmissions are "lifetime" fill, it's a lot harder and more expensive to change than an oil change every 5000, 7500.
Oil has be to change every 6 month or 6000 miles because oil degrade after time so 6 month for oil change and 5 years for CVT from the Japanese engineer at Subaru Japan they design the car not the American ... differential front and back 30,000 miles I don't know the time guess couple years like the CVT.
Thanks for this video. I have asked the advisors, not the guy that actually does the work and I have got mixed answers from different advisors. My 2016 forester has 59,000 miles. I would like to have the cvt serviced but if I do there is no way I can check to see if it was actually done, or is there? I would gladly pay $400 or $500 if I knew it was really done.
2014 Forrester, has towing capacity of 1500 pounds. I often tow over 3000 pounds on private property, my farm, for short distances. I’ve also had the transmission cut out on me off road, I believe because of overheating on steep inclines and rocks. Dealer won’t change CVT fluid until 100,000 miles, if I do my extended warranty will be voided. Will my CVT last that long, especially the way I use it? I think the dealer is FOS !!!!! Car has 50,000 miles on it! If it was your car, Would you get the CVT fluid changed ASAP ?????
MrSubaru1387 Oh yes, the dealer will change the fluid, but then they won’t honor the extended warranty. They’ve been instructed no fluid changes before 100,000 miles, or you risk warranty exclusion. I know it sounds crazy, but true
GREAT INFO! Thanks! Is there a written procedure that can be shared? Being a Certified A&P Mechanic, I believe in Service Manuals. BTW..... I keep ordering Pizza Pies at our local Pizza joint. I am told by the person taking the order "Pizza means Pie, you don't have to say both". I'll keep saying Pizza Pie :)
will people stop messing with mrsubaru. He is gold! and appreciate his videos!
Subaru is trying to comply with CAFE standards for cost of ownership and would rather replace transmissions. I always recommend following the severe service schedule in the owners manual.
Your Correct Troy! Just follow the service schedule and go to your Dealer (where you purchased the vehicle). Your Subaru will last 200,000 miles, or at least 150,000miles. To date, the Forester and Outback are ranking highest in longevity. The CVTs are 'much better' transmission now but not for all auto makers. Again, you get what you pay for.....
Is that right?
Well then what should I do if there are service manuals that say one thing, but service manuals for the exact same vehicle in a different market (or country) that says something else?
And how am I supposed to trust my dealership when they say the fluid lasts "life"?
Or when they refuse to allow me to observe the work to make sure it's being done at all?
@@jupitercyclops6521 So do you only go to the dentist when you have a bad tooth ache or do you go in for a regular cleaning with a check up.
The service is done to avoid a big expense. The CVT should be changed every 60k and if you don't like the level of service or trust at the dealer go to a shop you can trust.
@@churchofseabass9227 Take it in and see what they say
@@troyfankell6581 I want to but I'm also afraid they're gonna charge me some sort of $400 diagnostics fee. I feel it shouldn't cost anything if the transmission is having an issue.
Here in Canada, they recommend changing cvt fluid at 60k miles (100k km). Never had any problems and the dealer we deal with says they can go 300k km easy. Actually they had one with 300k, owner never changed fluid and transmission finally went out at 300k km. We are very loyal to the Subaru brand, and will continue to do so if they continue making excellent products.
Can confirm that my local dealer recommends changing the fluid at 100k (kms) as well.
@@51249ca good to read these, we are loyal subaru buyers, and just bought our 1st cvt in a 2017 forester supreme. Dealer said not to change the cvt fluid until the shop recommends it, which is likely never. I'd never mess w/ it DIY.
@@TheBassfresh I will clarify that that particular dealer said the first fluid change would be at the 100k (kms) mark. I didn't ask them about subsequent fluid change intervals.
just had the fluid changed on my 2014 Forester with CVT at 100k kms, no problems. My 2016 Outback 3.6 though is starting to shudder on accelerating at 88k kms. Dealer changed the fluid but it has not helped. We'll see how long before they swap out my CVT....
@@TheScoutu3 fingers crossed, but it should be covered under the 10 year 160k km extended warranty.
One of the reasons I recommend checking what the Japanese service manuals recommend for engine oil too. Often different from the US manuals and intended more for protection than fuel economy. Ridiculous that they change standards for the USA just to essentially meet standards and lie to us about cost of ownership. Of course changing fluid is a good idea. XD
@@gjm3525 Exactly. Same with the FA20 in the BRZ.
@@gjm3525 Yep, Ford does the same thing with their 5.4L 3-valve engine. 0w20 in NA. 10w30 everywhere else in the world.
Is there some way we can find the Subaru Japan or Subaru of Canada manuals or maintenance schedule online? My Google-Fu is failing me. I would like to print it out to show my local dealer when the time comes.
Jdmfsm.info/Auto/Japan/Subaru
@@MrSubaru1387 Wow, thanks for replying so quickly. I appreciate all the time you put into your videos. Happy Thanksgiving.
Remember this people, trans fluid is way way cheaper than replacing a transmission, no fluid is lifetime !
A wise man, mechanic and my mentor told me one time many years ago, he said, “ you can never “over change” any fluid on your car. You won’t hurt anything...ever. As long as you use the right fluids and change them properly.
And I never have had any oil related problem on any new vehicle I’ve ever owned in my life and I’ve been fortunate to own several new vehicles. Any person that listened to me and followed this advice has had the same results as well. So, listen to Mr. Subaru, because he is telling you basically the same thing.
The fluid change doesn't destroy the transmission, it just let's you know how bad a shape it was in. Lol. I filmed a whole 10min clip with this on why you shouldn't service a high mileage transmission, if it hasn't been regularly serviced its whole life.
Gandalf721 , I was talking about vehicles owned from new.
What do you consider a “high mileage” where you wouldn’t consider a fluid change?
If a dealership refuses to do a CVT service, go somewhere else! The place I work at does CVT services daily AND replaces valve bodies outside of warranty almost daily. The fluid definitely brakes down and will gum up a valve body just like a normal AT will get gummed up. Never changing the fluid WILL also lead to chain slip, which will cut grooves into the "gear ratio" drums. If you want to see a car buck around like a bull at a rodeo, watch a subaru with bad chain slip... Though the 4 wheel burnout it could do when the chain randomly catches can be fun to watch.
I agree that no fluid is lifetime, heat, time and wear eventually reduce effectiveness.
A bit late as this video is 2 years old. But yeah we had a novice lube tech drain the cvt on an impreza. Fortunately our shop has 2 masters myself being one and could correct the problem. Being a new Subaru owner i find your channel utterly fantastic.
Someone should do a fluid analysis of CVT fluid with 100k miles on it and compare it to the new fluid in the bottle. That should be able to debunk the lifetime fluid. I feel the same way about the 20k mile oil. It would be crazy to think that "20k mile"oil with 10k miles on it is just as good as the standard synthetic oil fresh out of the bottle.
I just serviced mine (tr580) at 100k for the first time. The pan was starting to leak a little, so I decided to drop the pan and reseal it. The fluid was obviously darker than new, but still had a green tint to it. There was no burnt smell. There was very little swarf on the magnet. I only refilled what drained when I took the pan off (about 5.5 qts). I see no need to flush it. BTW, this Outback doesn't see hard use. It does not tow and it is not used off-road.
A fluid analysis would almost certainly show the fluid was perfectly fine at that milage. These fluids last a very long time.
Japan, canada and usa need to get together and make up their minds now that toyota has a bigger say maybe it will happen
I would take Mr Subaru's word on servicing the CVT, but good luck finding someone who knows what they are doing, if Subaru of America don't recommend the service, probably most dealer techs don't get training on it, training is money!!
The bottom line is just get the fluid changed at 36000 miles with OEM fluid by a qualified person, don’t over think this issue. Good job Mr. Subaru.
We stopped servicing our 2017 Forester at the dealership that we purchased the vehicle from in the Phoenix area because they insisted that we replace (flush) the CVT fluid at 30K. We called every other dealership within 100 miles and they all said 45K or 60K or further out. We also called Subaru of America in New Jersey and basically got obfuscation (vague none-answer). We now get the vehicle serviced at another new dealership. Given that this service is priced over $450, this is not an easy service to get before we really need to. We are senior citizens, retired and drive conservatively. Most all our miles are long distance Interstate, but as photographers we have probably driven a total of 200 miles off road. If you can recommend the right mileage to have this done, we will do so based on the fact that we trust you more than any other adviser. Thanks.
I believe that maintenance cost is the reason why Subaru of America calls it a lifetime fluid. Subaru's have higher maintenance costs than a typical front wheel drive car (Toyota) because of the front/rear differentials, spark plugs at 60K vs. 100K and engine oil changes at 6K vs. 10K.
Your driving in severe temps every summer. They 100% told you the right interval for your area. If you are going to keep the car for the long haul why wouldnt you protect a 6k dollar cvt.
@@stclair1987 Thanks Greg. The issue now is that I got three different recommendations from the three dealers (all dealers in the same region, Phoenix). One said 30k miles, another 45k and still another 60k. So, who is correct?
Dealers around here say 100k and 120k... Haha
I would say 60k miles.
Fair enough, you win. There is a strainer not a filter in the cvt.
th-cam.com/video/34hS9691L04/w-d-xo.html
he literally shows the filter, but also says you must take apart the whole transmission to replace it.
I agree on everything you said! I just had independent Subaru shop in Arizona drop and fill my tr690 in my 2015 wrx with 240,000 on it! It's a cvt that was new put in under warranty at 99,000 miles 😁 I had it first serviced at 160,000 I used Subaru HTV for both times! It's shifting like butter still! All the miles I've put on it I've always let my engine and Cvt fully warm up before I have any fun in it!👍🤙🙌😁
Subiworx???
The fact that Subaru corporate gives out different info about CVT's scares me. Seems like they SHOULD be consistent. If not, why not? It literally keeps me from buying one.
I was a Subaru tech for about 20 years and that is very good advice for anyone wanting to change the fluid in their CVT.
So are CVTs reliable or what? What do you think from your experience?
@@pingpongballz5998 I replaced a few of them for bearing noises but those were early models 2011-2013. I would do a lot of reflashes for shifting concerns. I'm sure the new models have improved but I'll know more about that after I get my 2021 Forester.
@@teh60 I have a 2016 Crosstrek. Just heard bad stuff about CVT. I love this car and I want it to last.
My 2013 Crosstrek Limited has 210k miles on the original CVT. Only had a valve body replacement at 171k miles. My brother's 2011 Outback 2.5i Limited is at 230k miles on his original CVT.
TEH 60…I have a clunking noise in reverse on my 4 EAT TRANS…Warms up…it’s fine…? Never has done this as long as I have had it…This car has been babied all its life …2001 Subaru Forester
I've been doing a DIY drain and fill every 25K with Subaru's CVT fluid using a Launch scan tool to monitor temps. I get 5.5 quarts of my 2016 Legacy. I do have the FSM and follow the procedure to the letter. I've drained and fill both the front and rear differentials using Amsoil's severe gear 75W-90. I've had no issues what so ever. I actually added a Hayden 678 trans cooler, an Improve Racing 165F thermostat and an external magnefine filter inline with the factory warmer. The hottest my temps get for the CVT is 178F on a hill climb. It sits around 169/171F during normal operation fully warmed up. Prior to the cooler my Legacy was going up to 215F and my wife's Forester was hovering around 200F consistently. As everybody knows, heat breaks down fluid over time.
I've done the above services and modification for both my 2016 Legacy and my wife's 2017 Forester. The CVT temps run identical on both cars when warmed up.
I asked engineers at my work about the CVT fluid. They came up with it should be good for about 80,000 miles so that is what I’m going by. My 2016 Crosstrek now has 85,000 miles on it and still going great.
I have 2003 outback.never been change and is running fine but I'm redy do change fluide...100.750 mils
Im in Australia and my 2016 liberty 3.6 sedan , its at 100,000 kilometres and I got my mechanic to flush and change. I can say cvt is running much smoother.
nice. noticed my aussie imprezza isn't as smooth as it was. might try this
Just judging from the view behind you I'd have to say that is about the nicest and cleanest shop I have ever seen.
That’s a green screen, but you’re right it’s nice and clean 👍
@@smokeu600 I would have never guessed that.
Tiled floors is a nice touch. I was a Toyota mechanic for a month and it was the pits old-school bare cement floor
@@ayske1 The first thing I noticed was the tiled floor. I had never seen a shop with that before. I thought It really set the picture off.
Thanks for the good advice. I got a 2011 outback with a Tr690 transmission at 90k miles. It now has 130k and the AT oil temp light started flashing after driving a couple miles and I could smell the transmission getting hot. Changed about 7qts of transmission fluid and no more overheating…for now :)
A month ago I bought a 2006 Forester and this is my first one, so I'm trying to educate myself and this channel is great!
I'll give my one data point - We own a '17 Forester XT 2.0 Turbo (built in Fall 2016), now with 52,000 miles. We used it to tow a 1,000 lb teardrop trailer (that's the max weight for a brakeless trailer per Subaru USA) from the US west coast to St. John's Newfoundland and back in Sept 2019, a total of 11,000 miles with at least 10,000 of those miles during the trip with the trailer hitched-up. I'm a careful reader of my owner's manual, and I drew the conclusion that if anything was "severe driving", we had just done it. But I also was nervous about asking for a maintenance service that few other owners are doing and which is expensive; I have plenty of well-founded fears that dealer service departments can make dumb mistakes. The CVT's performance before, during, and after our long trip had been excellent and consistent, with no complaints (other than inherent normal CVT behavior). My decision was, go ahead and get a CVT fluid change, which I did at Carter Subaru in Seattle, back several months ago. It was a success, with no noticeable issues to today, several thousand miles later. I certainly don't believe Carter Subaru is perfect, but in their favor they have a long continuity of Subaru business, and very large sales volume all that time. I might have decided differently if I had had to choose a service facility with less experience.
seeing my own comment 3 years later - our car is still fine, and hasn't had any further CVT issues or servicing yet. It's now at 105,000 miles.
I live in CT and my dealer recommends changing the fluid every 60,000 miles...they did tell me Subaru does not recommend servicing the CVT but that they did recommend it as there is no such thing as a life time fluid. Next time In buying a standard transmission. I have a 2016 Forrester
Can I ask which dealer? I'm in CT too and my dealer is sticking with the "lifetime fluid" line...
Which dealer in CT?
My dealer in MI also goes by 60k, and they charge $250 for a complete fluid exchange (not a high-pressure flush). So far I and many other CVT Subie owners in my area are doing fine with no problems. I'd do it myself since it's not that hard but I'd rather have only the dealer touch it so that there's proof that only they opened it.
@@markmalinowski5951 which dealer in MI??
Lifetime can mean alot of things lifetime can mean up to 100k miles most manufacturers don't expect you to keep the vehicle that long
I have a 2017 Crosstrek with 47,000 miles. I am going to contact my local Subaru dealer about CVT service. I totally agree with you that there is no such thing as "lifetime" fluid. You would think that SOA would encourage CVT periodic service. Hopefully my local Subaru dealer agrees with me. Besides, who would turn down work right now with most people staying at home? Automatic transmissions, regardless of type, see a lot of heat. We all know heat breaks down fluid so it only makes sense to replace it periodically. Thanks for posting the video.
Subaru US has a limited Powertrain Warranty of 5 years/60,000 miles, They want no CVT fluid change during the warranty period which may hold them responsible for damages. Past the warranty period they couldn't give a damn what you do with your CVT. 'lifetime' fluid for Subaru US means 5 years/60,000 miles
I believe it was increased to 10 years 100k miles.
I would service the CVT too.
But I think I would meet Subaru half way and do a service at 60k + 6yr+.
But Subaru also increased the warranty on the CVT for my 18 CrossT as well as other models.
Knowing that I might also just leave the CVT alone and if and when it does develop issues, bring it in and decide what to do from there. If the CVT remains sealed that rules out any foul play on my part.
Maybe im crazy but I have always put transmissions into the category of "if it aint broke don't fix it."
But to each his own.
dont forget your software updates either! haha!
My local dealer told me 100k miles for our Ascent. The dealer I bought it from told me it needed to be serviced every 24k miles since we do tow with it. Subaru of America gave no discernible answer.
I just had my fluid flushed at the dealer up in Northern Canada with their fancy machine. They replaced 18.9L in total, and I do have to report that the TR580 in my 16 Outback shifts an rides much more smoothly. I have a marked improvement in throttle response, and my torque converter lurching on take-off has been much less noticeable. Total cost from the dealership was $400 tax-in (CAD). They tried to charge me an extra $150 for additional fluid, but I insisted on paying the cost quoted as this was a routine service, and they honored it. Subaru of Canada recommends flushes at every 100,000km due to our climate and elevation. The fluid that drained was certainly darker, but didn't look or smell like it was broken down too badly. I assume this is due to the high fluid capacity. If you're considering changing your fluid, I suggest doing it regularly. This Outback has 190,000km (118,000 miles) at the time of the flush, and I will be doing it again around 300,000 km (186,000 mi) assuming it makes it there.
I just checked the Subaru Canada website for our 2023 Forester Wilderness. It recommends changing the fluid every 100,000 kms or 5 years. If that's what they suggest, that's what I will do. The last thing I need is to have an issue with a transmission because I didn't maintain it properly to save $300.
I must have lucked out at my dealership because they recommend changing it every 50K. They did not acknowledge it as a "lifetime fluid."
Every dealer will tell you something different to sell you an expensive service.
I just bought a 2018 Forester and it only had 24k miles on it. It’s still 6 years old and sat around a lot so i changed the tranny fluid. Not a flush though. I’m glad i did it.
My 2010 exiga has factory trans fluid in it and runs nicely still. Will change end of year
Mr. Subaru is the best, better than Subaru itself.
My 2010 Legacy has the CVT. I have 254k miles on it. I bought the vehicle with 28k on the odometer, and to my knowledge it has never been serviced aside from when I had the Torque Converter changed under warranty a couple years ago.
You have a tr690 seems to be a good tranny other than the torque converter
Yep. The 2010/2011 TR690s are tough as nails, aside from the TCC clutch failures.
TR580
Btw what is CVT in Forester 2017? How reliable is it? Currently have 36000 miles and don’t mind to pay to change the liquid but really afraid of loosing the warranty Subaru have me for CVT - 100.000 or 10 years. Thoughts?
Your last video began to reassure me that buying a Subaru with a CVT was okay. Since I would have to, at this point, buy a used one. I can't afford to replace a $7,000 transmission at 100,000 miles. I hate to walk away from the absolute best AWD system there is. We have driven all over the US in all kinds of weather. So said the direction Subaru is going. Keep up the good honest information you provide. I have worked on all of our Subarus and know when to take the car in for service and work. Again, thanks for the info.
I take my 2015 Outback 25i in fr an oil change every 3 months ( drive very low miles, delivery Nov 2014 current miles 26,000). While I get the oil changed I have other services performed such as brake fluid change, transfer case oil change etc. I had the CVT fluid changed, but got an argument from the service manager regarding the need for the service. I indicated the vehicle was 5 yrs from delivery so just change the fluid. I was told the fluid change was 100k miles, to which I said, I am the customer just do what I ask. On my next appt. Oct. 11 I am having all the hoses change along with the serpentine belt, just due to age. I have performed this style of maintenance on my vehicles for years and never got stuck on the side of the road with the hood up. My son does the same and his 2017 Imprezza is close to 90k miles, and he has never been broken down with his vehicle either.
ease of maintenance should be a high priority in any car's design. i hate that so many cars have moved towards "lifetime fluids" and requiring special tools to even check your fluid levels. ridiculous! that's why my "new" car is a 1995 and I love it. i hope it keeps going for another 10 years cuz every time i have to work on a newer car I hate them even more!
Never serviced my 15 Forester cvt. Made it to 50k no issue even had the engine shut down on my a few times climbing sand dunes that ended up being way to steep. My 18 Forester xt though, I plan on servicing this cvt every 25-30k due to the increase load placed on the transmission from the turbo. Go with Japan's service recommendations. They design it, They build it, they rework poor designs, before sending it to a mass production factory that most likely is in Japan. I think Subaru America is banking on the culture of extended warranties covering these issues and if a consumer here's rumors that their new cars transmission is a ticking time bomb then they will jump for that extended coverage when offered.
Great information. Thanks. I WAS going to help my sons roommate change the fluid in his 2013 but i don't think a novice such as myself should not
touch it
The question about "sealed for life" auto transmissions has been causing me concern, About 6 months ago I purchased a 2010 Subaru Outback with CVT transmission and 146K on the clock. I had the car checked out at a local firm led by a former Subaru Service department manager, who gave the car, including the CVT a clean bell of health. Now the Outback has just covered 150 K and been received its "log book" service.
The Subaru log book clearly states that the CVT requires no service.
Ive seen JC's statement (in the above video) and several other TH-cam posters, strongly recommending the need to change the CVT fluid at regular intervals.
Accordingly, yesterday I went to my local authorised Subaru dealer (Cricks Tweed Heads) to find out costs and other details about changing my Outback's CVT fluid.
Firstly the Parts manager told me that the CVT fluid would cost me $35 AUD per litre; and was only available in 20 litre drums; that right $700. If I used their own service department I would only be charged for the amount of fluid used.
Then I approached the "Service Manager" who absolutely declined to do the job because it was not recommended by Subaru.
I'd appreciate feedback from all those interested in this problem.
Subaru of America, following the fine American tradition of marketing above all else. 🙄
I bought a Volkswagen phaeton... the service record showed the transmission service by the dealer performed... it was never performed , what is a person to do ? Some dealers are criminals.
Greg Speth loved the phaeton. Are parts available? Is it the same as the A8
I love the 'lifetime fluid' nonsense. Sure, if I never change the fluid and the transmission suicides itself after 100,001km, that was indeed the lifetime of the transmission. It's like some kind of bad gotcha joke.
Yes I agree ! I’ll give Subaru credit for making a fairly reliable car to 120k but after that they are screwing everyone on these transmission repairs and replacements and you really don’t know what they did but you can be sure the repair bill will be outrageous
Like never change the Motor oil either for life time LOL
For Subaru of America it is lifetime because cars lifetime is meant to be 5 years and then you are just meant to buy another car just like almost all other brands nowadays. Marvels of planned obsolesence...
And manual versions get more scarce and not many everyday customers would go for manuals in USA
Kacpa2 Not sure - they have extended warranty to many people - 100.000 miles or 10 years but mentioned don’t touch CVT as not serviceable
Good info. I sold my 13 legacy because the Subaru reman transmission was acting funny again, just like it was doing before being replaced under the extended warranty. I just bought a CPO 19 Forester and have fill factory warranty till 100k or 7 years, which I have over 4 years and 75k left. Since I'm only at 26k, I will be replacing my CVT fluid at 36k and same with my wife's 21 Ascent just to make sure the transmissions last.
gracias Mrsubaru por aclarar mi duda de cambiar el oil pan, tengo actualmente una XV 2013 con 67.000km y a los 80.000 cambiaré el aceite de la caja de cambios CVT, un abrazo
I just changed the cvt fluid on my moms crosstrek. I did research about this service 3 months in advanced before even touching her car. Changed it at 36,000 miles and its running fine so far. The fluid that came out was just about as clean as what I put in, which, I used Subaru CVT-F II, and its been running perfectly ever since. Now, that being said, i would change the fluid ever 30 to 60k max. I dont listen to the manufacturer and go by what I and others know
thanks for your sound advice.
Pretty sure the lifetime fluid thing has something to do with the window sticker saying there cars have the lowest maintenance cost to own
Toyota CVt only needs a paper clip and a sequence with the shifting to put the vehicle in CVt fluid temp scanner mode.
This is an excellent explanation of when you should and shouldn’t get in over your head as a DIYer. I tried to change a PS rack on my old Impreza I had and I ended up having to take to my mechanic to finish what I started. I personally never change fluids except for oil and coolant occasionally. Hopefully you don’t cringe after me saying that but it’s just something I’ve never done. It’s messy and I feel if the car is driving smoothly don’t bother it. That said I agree with your entire explanation and point of view and believe that no fluid is life time, that being said I’ll probably leave my fluid alone unless I start having issues.
Probably too late tgen
Don't need to change leave it alone!!
I just had my 2017 Forester CVT fluid changed at 60k miles for the first time. I purchased it brand new. The local Subaru dealership recommended changing it at 80k. The manual just says to 'inspect' every 30k miles or so. Because I drive in what is considered 'severe' conditions, I was willing to service the CVT if necessary. My mechanic showed me a sample of my CVT fluid and recommended changing it although he said it wasn't absolutely necessary. He also checked the front and rear differential gear oil and spark plugs (per Subaru 60k mile inspection) and said that they were all fine and did not need changing. The mechanic performed a drain and fill and used Subaru brand fluid. I decided to have AAMCO perform the service because they specialize in transmissions and they were a little cheaper than my dealership.
In Europe we recommend it every 60'000 km
A Walmart in California drained my Trans instead of Oil on my 2005 XT forester. The technician didn’t put any fluid back into the trans. I drove 1 mile and returned to the shop. I never forgave myself for trusting Walmart with my beloved forester.
Don’t know if this comment has already been made, but if you look at Subaru’s maintenance schedule for the CVT, it recommends fluid replacement every 30,000 miles IF you tow with your CVT equipped Subbie. Hmmm…
Great information. And I loathe when dealerships knowingly give people advice that will lead the car to an early death.
GOOOOOD Video. Keep it up man! An essential channel 💪🏼💪🏼
My dealer in MI recommends changing CVT fluid every 60k, and they have good results to back it up. They charge $250ish to do it, I guess that's not bad so I'll have them do it until I get to 100k when the extended transmission warranty is up and after that I'll do it myself.
What Michigan dealer?
@@mmatth2194 Fox Marquette Subaru
Thx.
So if I get the CVT fluid changed before 100,000 miles I'm running the risk of voiding the Subaru of America warranty... But if I wait that long I will miss 3 change intervals according to Subaru Canada/Japan and could actually lessen the life of the transmission. That's a tough one!
If you change it yourself, outside of having the dealership do it, and mess up, yes, you can void the warranty. If Subaru dealership does it, it won't void the warranty.
@@MrSubaru1387 update: both Subaru dealers by me said they wouldn't change it and gave me the "lifetime fluid" go round
Well that sucks.
@@MrSubaru1387 and if I take it to a regular mechanic to change the CVT fluid, I take it that would void the warranty as well?
@@perro7183 they probably want you to tell them it's been operating under severe conditions so they can deny you a new transmission for not getting it changed enough
"Subaru USA does not recommend servicing the CVT, but Subaru Japan does"?? Throw away mentality of the US. They just want to sell you a new one. Proof: I left the dealer yesterday, they do not service or repair CVT's, but will happily replace it "because its starting to slip" for just 8.5K!
Just purchased a 2020 outback premium 2.5....Large Dealership Brand in Dallas, Texas said replace fluid every 60,000 miles. they also said to replace front and rear diff fluid every 30,000 miles. just another datapoint from a recent conversation from a tech-turned-service writer at Large Dealership Brand
SEWELL?
CVT every 5 years by the Japanese Engineer at Subaru Japan ,and every 6 month oil change oil degrade after time .
My personal opinion matches yours. No automotive fluid is life-time. This is not bourbon, to get better the more it ages...
Can you share your thoughts on another topic - should I re-learn the transmission after fluid change, or only if the CVT has been overhauled. What does the re-learning actually do?
I have info to add if you drive your CVT in rude environement like towing load regularly, driving offroad, heavy traffic on long period or on really hot temperature, you should replace your CVT fluid more frequently like 50K km. Other tool you can use Bluetooth OBDII reader with a good apps ( me use veepeak with carscanner apps), i have the sensor read CVT oil temp & oil life CVT in %.
Having the transmission fluid service done now on 20 outback 100,000. costs about $550 plus tax.
Thank you for this advice Sir. I don't have a CVT Transmission. I'm thinking of getting a Subaru in the next few years. You make some really great informative videos.
I would assume you could do a cold drain, measure what is drained and pump the same amount back into the CVT transmission. I have been using this same "drain and fill" procedure on my regular automatic transmissions for years with no issues.
The issue is if the engine isn't running, and the transmission oil pump isn't pumping, you can't get the fluid all in without it leaking out.
@@MrSubaru1387 Right on, I get it now. These CVT transmissions are all new to me. A lot good info from you. Thank you for the quick reply.
Love your logic assuming no leaks. I've done it this way too for every fluid. You don't need a scan tool. Fluid level is not a precise requirement. The manufacturers eliminated the dipstick with a fluid range level so they can complicate the procedure and sell you a service. Read the fine print in the warranty if you skip a service. Even my Nissan Murano with a CVT had a dipstick with range marks. If the fluid level was so critical there would not be a range on the dipstick.
@@MrSubaru1387 any info on the 22 wrx cvt transmission??? if its serviceable reason being changed the rear differential and it defiantly needed to be replace with new differential fluid it looked like metallic paint when drained it...
@@chrislebeast all the CVTs are serviceable.
VW said and did the exact same thing. I changed the fluid and filter at about 96k. And at 200k it still works great
So who will do the change? Dealer won't touch it - and most local shops won't either once they read the Subaru of America advisory.
I think the whole thing with regards to not servicing the CVT is lower cost of ownership, but in the end it costs you more to not service the CVT than if you were to service it properly at a 36,000 mile interval.
Toyota told me the same thing on my Prius C that I had a lifetime CVT fluid in it. I drained it and refilled it with 4-quarts or so at 75,000 miles.
I did a drain and refill of the CVT on my 2016 Forester as well.
If the car manufacturers can tout a cheaper cost of ownership then on paper it will show a customer it's cheaper to own than a competitor, but this hurts the consumer who wants to keep their car 100k+ miles. Seems like all manufacturers just want minimum specs for a car to hit 100k miles in the US and they want a lower cost of ownership compared to their competitors stretching out oil change intervals to 10,000 miles and never servicing the CVT is what Toyota now recommends to its customers.
Trying to compete with EVs on low cost of ownership to 100k miles is why we are where are with maintenance costs is my speculation, but even EVs need tires, brakes, rotors, cabin air filters, and coolant flushes to run properly, so they're not maintenance free as they claim to be. The only real things EVs don't have are oil changes and CVT/AT fluid changes like gas cars do.
Great covering both sides of the debate. I agree iwht MrSubaru. One question that was not answered and I don't know if it can. As an owner of 2020 Outback (past waranty), if I took it inot a Subaru dealer and requested CVT service, I'm sure they would gladly take my money. What are the chances that the service would be done absolutely correctly without any ill-fated outcomes? If done incorrectly, even at a dealer, and the CVT fails past the service waranty, your in place where it would have probably been better off to leave it alone.
Another point is that all parts when first fitted wear. I'd see a place for servicing after 20k miles and then every 100k after that. The first wear-in miles is the fluid you want to replace.
I’ve heard that the reasoning of Subaru of America on “lifetime” fluid vs other countries is to keep maintenance costs down. Presumably for cost comparisons with other manufacturers.
YES, YES, YES please service your CVT. Had a Nissan w/CVT and they swore it was NOT to be serviced. Started having slip issues at 102K miles. Did a drain and fill 3 times (drain, fill, drive 3 miles….repeated twice till it drained clean on last one). Car drove like new after that and was simple to do. I will NOT do that to my Subaru and I’m convinced it MUST be done on all vehicles. “Lifetime” fluid is a myth.
Can you please please do a video on a cvt oil drain and fill? The dealer wants 350 and 7 quarts is 80 bucks.
7 quarts!?! That’s what a mid size diesel uses! The only way I could see that is if they pump that as a single use fluid.
I spent $12.00 for 12 quarts!
My old Corolla had the easiest ATF fluid change. Literally hand pumped it out of the dipstick into a jug, poured the same amount I took out back in. $20 synthetic fluid, back on the road for another 30k miles. I miss dipsticks. I'll have Subaru replace the fluid at 30k since I like our Ascent. I pretend its my dream WRX wagon when I drive it.
There’s a degree of fear with it. I’ve seen quotes from forums and Reddit where people have to choose between junking the car or spending $6k or more for a refurbished one through their dealership. Just not convinced this thing will last longer than 10 years in an urban/city type of setting. Would be different if they could actually repair them rather than need to replace all the time, or if the CVTF service wasn’t so complicated.
Maybe SOA isn't expecting the vehicle to last long so that's why its lifetime.
People ask me why somebody my age would change their own oil (and other fluids). Too many lessons learned, mostly by other people, that quickie lube places, etc are not to be trusted to not screw up something as simple as an oil change. Last time I went to one (years ago), drain plug fell out of my car some time later, apprently only finger tight. Luckily it just finished draining completely as I pulled into my garage and I noticed the trail of fluid. Thankfully, that car never burned a drop of oil after that incident. Needless to say, I've always done my own changes since then.
CVT as with millions of acronyms has become both an adjective and noun, so "CVT transmission" is *entirely* correct, as "CVT" modifies the noun "transmission".
O.k. so I totally "buy" servicing the CVT. How to go about finding a competent, trustworthy tech to perform this for me ?
By the way, I have a 2021 Forester -- how to know which transmission model have I ?
I just signed a 3yr/54k mile lease on a '21 Crosstrek Premium, my first Subaru with a CVT. I drive almost 20k miles a year, mostly highway commuting, not a ton of big hills, so I'm pretty easy-going on my cars, but I'm also used to having my Subaru transmission fluid (manual or auto, I've owned both) replaced every 30k miles. My service manager told me that having the fluid replaced will not void the warranty, but that it's also a lifetime fluid. I am also of the opinion that no fluid is lifetime. *Sigh* Sooo, I'm thinking of kinda splitting the difference and having it replaced at 60k miles, if I so choose to keep the car and buy it out.
Input from Israel/Hebrew owner's manual - they only mention to check the CVTF every other service (30K KM) but in the comments mention that if you use the car under severe conditions (example given is towing) you should replace it every 45K KM. since i'm at 44K KM ill try and get the fluid replaced at the next scheduled maintenance. I'm hearing here that workshops dont like/recommend doing it..
2011 Outback 188k. Yes, service!
You change your oil every 5k miles. Change your transmission fluid at 30k (at the dealer, where it's proven time-and-time again that their method doesn't kill the transmission). It's logical if you want to keep the car a long time.
Subaru Corp Japan ( 3 years- 36,000 ) Subaru Canada (50,000 Kilometers ) Subaru USA ( Lifetime Fluid). How a car mfg cannot come to terms and what time or miles CVT Fluid should be replaced.
Crazy right? They were all on the same page until around 2010. SOA decided they knew better than Fuji Heavy Industry, now the Subaru Corporation.
Think it 100000km in Canada.
@@ericripley9739 ah. Had many comments of 50k km on the previous vid. Hard to find the facts to what's correct regionally.
MrSubaru1387 If you check Subaru Canada it says every 100,000 Kilometres. I have a 2019 Crosstrek and I’ll be changing it every 50,000 Kilometres because I’m not taking any chances lol and doing everything at the dealership just to be on the safe side.
Hi. Got out my warranty/ maintenance booklet. Maintenance is supposed to be every 10,000 km or 6mo. There are 4 levels, A, B, C and D. A and B are basically oil changes and inspections. C is similar but adds replacing brake fluid and servicing fuel injectors
C Is at 3y or 60,000km
Service D is 5y or 100,000km. It adds replacing spark plugs, and changing transmission and differential fluids. Hope this clears things up. Good job.
@0:45 "Sorry if you don't like me saying CVT transmission, I'M GONNA SAY IT SO... HAAAAAAA HAAAAAA OMG. I kept replayin so funny
My problem is that being a former Mercedes tech
I also work on all my vehicles and it's hard for me to take my 18 outback to the dealer at all
BUT because they are the only ones allowed to do the fluid changed WITHOUT voiding the warranty.
I'm left with no choice but to do that.
I wish I could do it on my own but something like this is not worth voiding the warranty and better off paying for service.
Mr. Subaru the best. I just think that you should drain the CVT fluid and replace as much as you drain and that’s good enough. What do you thank? Thanks
Mr. Subaru what is the proper CVT oil for the TR580? Thanks
Awesome as always! My 2016 Crosstrek is just about at that "old change interval" point. Local dealer (that I do trust) advertises something like $300 to flush and replace fluid. I'll have to ask what they'd charge to just do a drain and refill. (I don't have the facilities to even do that at home). That'll probably get half or so but if you do it regularly, it turns it over enough IMHO. Thanks!
2018 Outback 3.6r. Transmission has jerked twice under a normal acceleration and makes a quiet hissing noise when going into gear.
the manufacturers do that to satisfy the JD Power cost of ownership index as well as may be environmental concerns as well in America
Hello Mr. Subaru, I'm a fan of your channel. Love the videos 👍🏼 Question regarding the CVT transmission. If you had a 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i with 150,000 miles and the CVT transmission has never been serviced, would you still service it even though it has 150,000 miles of mostly highway miles with your usual stop and go traffic? Thanks hope to hear your your opinion ✌🏽
Yes absolutely unlike an automatic transmission where sometimes the grit and clutch materials in the fluid are sometimes the only thing keeping them going there isn’t clutch pacs in a CVT so you are perfectly good doing that
@@joshuamast5128 Thanks for the reply
My 2015 Forester is showing failures in several systems, including EyeSight, ABS, and requires a transmission tear down, including new fluid, while replacing the sensor (s). Had I known about this issue, I would never had bought a Subaru. Sensor failure is a significant flaw in an otherwise excellent car. Mine has 195,000 Km on it. Not happy.
I've never been a 3000 mile oil change guy. Anything less than 5000 and I feel wasteful.
However automatic transmissions (cvt, torque converter, etc), I always over change them for some reason. I have 214K on a very abused Jeep transmission. It gets changed almost as much as the engine oil though.
I think in the US they go for lowest cost of ownership. We know the FB engines are capable of 7500 mile intervals but they had to lower that because people kept running them dry. So they shortened it. But that's why transmissions are "lifetime" fill, it's a lot harder and more expensive to change than an oil change every 5000, 7500.
Oil has be to change every 6 month or 6000 miles because oil degrade after time so 6 month for oil change and 5 years for CVT from the Japanese engineer at Subaru Japan they design the car not the American ... differential front and back 30,000 miles I don't know the time guess couple years like the CVT.
15 fozy here, took a sample and sent it to a lab. Results too many insolubles...drain and fill at the dealership, at 30,000mi
Thanks for this video. I have asked the advisors, not the guy that actually does the work and I have got mixed answers from different advisors. My 2016 forester has 59,000 miles. I would like to have the cvt serviced but if I do there is no way I can check to see if it was actually done, or is there? I would gladly pay $400 or $500 if I knew it was really done.
2014 Forrester, has towing capacity of 1500 pounds. I often tow over 3000 pounds on private property, my farm, for short distances. I’ve also had the transmission cut out on me off road, I believe because of overheating on steep inclines and rocks. Dealer won’t change CVT fluid until 100,000 miles, if I do my extended warranty will be voided. Will my CVT last that long, especially the way I use it? I think the dealer is FOS !!!!! Car has 50,000 miles on it! If it was your car, Would you get the CVT fluid changed ASAP ?????
The dealer refuses to change the fluid?
MrSubaru1387 Oh yes, the dealer will change the fluid, but then they won’t honor the extended warranty. They’ve been instructed no fluid changes before 100,000 miles, or you risk warranty exclusion. I know it sounds crazy, but true
@@joemikey278 wow..
Motor Image Subaru of Singapore recommends 40k CVT fluid change and costs $400usd
GREAT INFO! Thanks! Is there a written procedure that can be shared? Being a Certified A&P Mechanic, I believe in Service Manuals.
BTW..... I keep ordering Pizza Pies at our local Pizza joint. I am told by the person taking the order "Pizza means Pie, you don't have to say both". I'll keep saying Pizza Pie :)
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