Alan Wake 2 Ending Analysis
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 มี.ค. 2024
- Alan Wake 2 Ending Analysis
Hello Everyone!
Alan Wake 2 has come and we have a load more to discuss. For the last thirteen years I have questioned if stories told can affect the past. I didn't realize until playing Alan Wake 2 that this detail would be the catalyst to explain so much of the Remedy Connected Universe.
After taking a while to stop and chew on the story and ending of Alan Wake I think I've finally settled my thoughts on what exactly happened. More specifically WHY the story was written the way it was. The purpose of the story was accomplished a goal that I feel went largely over looked. In this video I hope to present what that purpose was.
Please feel free to have free discussion in the comments section below.
Enjoy!
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"a man's a man but with a tool makes two, Tom." -Ahti
Well done...
Man it's still hard to hear James McCaffrey voice, knowing we will never hear it again.
That's my biggest concern about the dlcs and the Max Payne remakes
That final scene with Zane when he “wakes up” from the gunshot really threw me while I was playing 😂
I wonder how many people just left the room and didn’t see him wake up from the gunshot. That scene also had me fuuucked up lol
Anyone notice it Tom kinda alludes to how Alan woke up from a gunshot to the head ?
The moment you mentioned "Wes Craven's New Nightmare" I understood everything.
Is amazing.
On a playthrough of Alan Wake 1 I watched I compared it to New Nightmare.
No joke as I was writing this I almost had a whole section on New Nightmare. Decided to make it part of the Book Club instead. Watched it like 3 times since then lol. I love the Elm Street franchise and the 7th one is a treat.
@@GamingUniversityUoG Not gonna lie: You mentioned "New Nightmare" and my brain made a *click". Then I begun to jump like a madman, screaming "HE IS RIGHT! IS THE SAME PRINCIPLE! THE LOOP! THE TRAP!" xD
I'm a massive Nightmare of Elm Street fan and this video made my day. Thank you 👍
Well, being forever trapped, is kinda a permanent consequence. You may not get a permadeath, but there are fates worse than death.
As for the "retcon" of the dark presence, the entity itself is just "playing" a role of alans script, like a lot of the characters through the story. In the dark presences cases, it got tricked by Alan.
In order to get the good ending we needed consequences for the heroes right.
7:16 I think Alan wrote an origin for The Dark Presence so it could be beaten. Whereas before no one knew what it was or where it came from.
Exactly. By giving it a history and backstory it gives you more options. rather than some eldritch entity that can never be caught.
@@GamingUniversityUoG Like how a villain or monster is less scary when you reveal their past.
@@Xehanort10 And the "dark" presence is dark because it comes out of the unknown. By defining it, Alan has stolen it's power.
Alan is doing the same thing to the Dark Place itself too, and now there are locations there, that have come from the mind of the artists, like Alan's New York and Zane's theater.
But the Dark Place is infinite, and it's potential limitless.
I'm hoping we get some outlandish scifi stuff in the Night Spings DLC.
Omg, now Zane's words feel even more scary
Are you hinting at the idea that the retconned Zane is actually a further fallen / stuck version of Alan? Or that Zane is the creation of the further fallen / stuck Alan. A different attempt to escape and get revenge on the ascended version is actually a good idea for the future. But we are still missing context. We do not know the night springs stories that had been written before, and their consequences, and there is another story to be told about the dark presence / shadow in the Lakehouse DLC. This is not over yet.
Great video, as always! Keep it up.
I see that as a distinct possibility. I was more focused on the Labyrinth of Me words he was speaking at the time. But I am currently doing some research on Zane so who knows what else will come from that.
@@GamingUniversityUoG I'm wondering if this means that we are headed toward a 'Counsel of Kangs' situation with Alan. Given your interpretation, it seems that the spiral continues *past* the bullet of light, where the Alans-in-Return always end up breaching it at the end. That solves the paradox of "Yes you do, and no you don't". In the non-Final Draft game, Alan-in-Return sees Alice's message and then awakens at the beginning of the next... 'coil' let's say, with the knowledge that it's a Spiral, and not a Loop. One Alan being trapped forever in Return would make it a Loop, but if the Spiral always ends with Alan-in-Return either going 'up' past the bullet of light or 'down' further into the Dark Place, it seems that there are many many Alans Wake, which are alluded to in Zane's video.
That's an interesting idea. If one thing is certain about Zane, it's that he's been retconned and rewritten a few too many times.
@@GamingUniversityUoG if you take the W and K of Wake and move forward 3 letters in the alphabet, you get Z and N. Zane
"... Someone else to dream me free..." - "... The dark presence was born..."
I think we're basically on the same page here, but I don't necessarily tthink there are 2 Alans. That said:
The retcon is changing a cycle of re-birth for the dark presence that had perpetuated between new creators who visit the dark place over time, to a birth and binding of the dark presence from/to Alan... In essence, tightening the spiral to a point - and not to destroy, per se (because the dark presence would just find a way to find someone new once Alan "left") - again, more so to bind... Incorporate the dark presence in himself in such a way to remove the possibilty of another host - the multiple cycles Alan went through, the ritual necessary to ensure the dark presence does not gain dominant agency over his body/consciousness.
Ngl, I was curious though a little apprehensive about the idea of two Alans until you reminded me that Zane exists as this constant mystery... Incredible video, as usual, thanks for covering this universe like no one else!
I mean we see two Alan's in this game already. One shoots himself. Also in the dlcs when there is one in the cabin and one running around.
@@GamingUniversityUoG but wait , these 2 Alans where one is in the cabin and other running around isn't simultaneously happening, it's just one REAL writer and the other is the story's protagonist, like in the first game Alan wrote a lot of Departure (including his own backdoor out of jagger's editing prison) BUT we took the control of the protagonist Alan that's on his way was seeing videos of the writer figuring what to write (which is always the REAL part), like in AW2 we play with an ALAN that's also the protagonist while seeing the writer's journey videos (about him deciding not to write, getting the importance of initiation, figuring that time working in spirals implies the existence of an ascended version of him "he used that to make the prison perfect and escape"). I'm buying the 2 Alans ascension ending with an ongoing conflict in the prison (as we've already seen a glimpse of it) but that's the first TWO ALANS we had since the first game imo, the other instances were a real writer and a fictional protagonist, even in Initiation which for me works as a real big realization journey for Alan, where he figures out that he's Scratch with DP in him (yes that was artistically realized by a scene were he shoots himself yet it's just a metaphor for him knowing the truth).
Love all your Content ❤
Fantastic edit at the end. “And cut!” *chefs kiss*
Haha yeah I thought it was a fun way to conclude
I think this analysis makes perfect sense to describe the ending. Alan trapped the Dark Presence by trapping part of himself in a loop by giving the Dark Presence a definition, somewhere it began and ended. It also made me question why the "rules changed", and I'm assuming that it's because the writer(s) changed? Tom the Poet supposedly wrote the Clicker into existence as a tool/weapon to help Alan, and then Alan altered the Clicker's function as a tool to suit the story's needs.
Also, it does seem possible that Tom the Filmmaker is going to be a new villain. I just realized that Tom's work frequently foreshadows things that Alan actually ends up doing, like the "Tom's Resurrection" scene and the "Bullet of Light" scenes. Even some parts of Yoton Yo kind of speak of it from another angle, such as "he returns and in turn, you are locked in the room" potentially being a hint towards what happens to the Dark Presence/Scratch. Tom also seems to be one of the few who can navigate the Dark Place flawlessly, suggesting he knows it quite well. (Tom is usually the one giving Alan navigational advice, but he also seems to find Tim and Darling easily, even with the latter in a black void) I've heard some theories that Tom the Filmmaker is the Mr. Scratch from American Nightmare too, because he acts very similar and the same song plays during the acid trip sequence.
The way the Clicker works in AW2, how it allows a conscious retcon/alteration in the story, I wish the Koskala brothers were just a bit more self aware _(perhaps thanks to some sweet Anderson moonshine)_ so that they had the awareness to use the Clicker in the heart of the Taken to rewrite their entire possession by the Dark Presence. It would be so much more satisfying to simultaneously destroy a Taken and restore the person they would have been if they had never been taken over. Perhaps that would have given the Cult too much power in their fight but a great victory/happy ending bought with great struggle can be narratively satisfying too.
That actually would be an interesting method. They would need a new ritual. A poem to go along with their use of the Clicker which discusses the restoration of a person. Would be really cool if we saw that
@@GamingUniversityUoG I imagine that the Cult would manufacture artefacts of the Taken's "fixed" lives, much like how that super condescending FBC researcher created simplistic stories in order to produce a specific result when they were combined with a doll ritual. This would limit the Cult's ability to amass power and members because it would require them to know who each Taken were and what their lives would likely be if they had never gotten possessed. In effect it would allow them to reclaim most members but few strangers.
Thank you!
Even if, when you mentioned the Ascended Alan being treated as a Warden, I expected to see the "Archon/Demiurge/Demon" video from the beginning of NG+ :D
Unironically my favourite scene of the game!
The fact he mentioned a bunch of Gnostic philosophy out of nowhere was a definite clue in to what they were thinking.
Just finished the game 2 days ago and was slightly confused of the ending, I only understood it partially but I was even more confused when I noticed you haven't made a video explaining it, I'm glad you finally got around to do it
"Must you humans name everything? Nothing's real to you 'til you've named it, given it limits."
"It took courage to climb into that machine every night, not knowing if I'd be the man in the box, or the Prestige." ... "The audience knows the truth: the world is simple, miserable, solid all the way through. But if you can fool them, even for a second, then you can make them wonder."
"Why do we tell stories? To try to make sense of a world that can be terrifying and enormous. ...I don't know that your story will long be known, I don't know who will remain to tell it, but it did happen, and it did matter."
Just a few lines that ran through my head while watching this.
I just finished Alan Wake 2 last night. I've been waiting for quite a while to catch up on your videos. Good to see you're still making great content. I haven't played The Final Draft yet, but knowing where it's headed makes me excited to get into it again.
Glad you finally analyzed the ending!
Took long enough right.
LET'S LEARN! 😇
Haha well hello there!
One aspect of this analysis that isn’t necessarily necessary for the point, but helps drive home the themes of the game is Alan literally writing in different artists and pieces of art made by those artists to help influence him in writing the epilogue. He couldn’t write the epilogue he had in mind into the original script but he figured out a cheat. All the poems left by old zane, the Alex Casey echoes that give hints, Alice’s photography and misdirection, the old gods of Asgard and their music, even fucking rewriting ahti to have a hinted backstory of being a singer and his work collaborating with Thomas Zane the filmmaker, and filmmaker Zane’s work as well, AND Mr. Door and his talk show. All things hinting at the epilogue he originally intended but due to the narrative it couldn’t be written in or the dark presence wouldn’t take the bait and Alan couldn’t have the memory of it since he already was written to have memory problems since him having the security of an ending that works wouldn’t have the story stick. It’s fucking brilliant. The Alan in the writers room before the entire plot of the game knew exactly what he was doing. All this and people still say Alan a bad writer.
It took you a long while to make this video, I do not know how you resisted the urge.
Mostly it came down to taking this long to settle my thoughts on it
@@GamingUniversityUoG I couldn't do that, I know that because I gushed and speculated _(to an obnoxious degree)_ to my friend the moment after I finished.
I watched this a few times, first off, excellent video as always. At the end it seems like you are hinting at something that I have theorized about, that Zane featured in AW2 is a manifestation created by Alan, which, as art always reflects the artist, is a version of himself. I'm interested to see if you explore this more in a future video and how our theories align
Nothing escapes a black hole. However if we go by the holographic principle if you spiral into a black hole, at the event horizon your data, gets copied on the surface. This might the be copy of you which walks away while the other is stuck on the far side of the mirror forever.
”In the end, it's never just the light you need
When balance slays the demon, you'll find peace
In the end, it's never just the dark you seek
When balance slays the demon, you'll find peace
Find the peace
”
This ks awesome! I love your theories on Alan Wake 2
Thanks dude!
Thank you once again! Also New Nightmares...my fave can't wait to hear ya speak on it
I wish I'd kept the clip, but there was a moment when I used the flashlight on the shadows that Alan has to fight, the darkness burns away, and if you freeze frame it correctly, it's actually Alan Wake's character model. I did this on complete accident once, but wasn't able to replicate it again. (Didn't try all that hard, might go back and give it another go). I do wonder if Alan's constant trying over and over is part of the "thousands" mentioned towards the end of the video, and the shadows he has to fight are actually just previous versions of himself. It would check out that he has to fight himself to get over his own ego (as I believe he admitted was one of the worst parts of himself).
These enemies are called Fadeouts. And yes the words they say are clips from Alan speaking in the writers room. I find it very likely these are former versions of himself in the loop. Or some other aspect of him.
@@GamingUniversityUoGLends more evidence to your "Multiple Alans" theory pretty heavily, I'd say!
I think of The Dark Presence like this. Alan Wake,using his Writings, vesseled Himself. If you have Played Kingdom Hearts, think of the Way Ansem, Seeker of Darkness or the Ancient Darkness in General, become a Shadow specific to their Vessel when they possess them. Therefore, The Darkness goes from non-specific to specific to the person they are attached to, and destroying or purifying the Vessel undoes at least that aspect of Them.
holy shit i love this channel so much, it’s like batman arkham videos of the remedy universe 😭
Haha thank you!
Amazing vid. That edit of mr scratch at 2:26 save that and always use it. I wish you could reuse the ending as well but it wouldnt always work. This was a really good one.
The Dark Presence existing before Alan but being born from Alan kind of reminds me of Warhammer 40K's Slaanesh. A God that was born from the lust of the Eldar, but that existed before the Eldar were even a thing. So, similar to the Dark Presence, we wonder if it was Slaanesh that drove the Eldar into lust in the first place so that she can be born. It's that cyclical nature that we all know and love in fiction.
It's not a Lake it's an Ocean, It's not a loop it's a Spiral. What does a spiral do? it spirals out of control. Get the picture?
It's pretty clever that they wrote a retcon as part of the story on purpose.
Content-wise as great as ever but man THIS EDITING WAS SUBLIME it just keeps getting better
Great video! Your explanation reminds me a lot of another game's ending, SOMA.
Dude Soma is awesome. Yeah I can see that too
Another splendid video.
We can only wonder what awaits us next.
To me, this is your best Alan Wake video to date! I can't congratulate you enough for your tremendous effort and thought process to put things in order! Bravo!👏
Generally speaking, I haven't understood how the loop cycle operates regarding Alan's section, and I hope that you could make me understand, perhaps.
The very first scene of the game ("Back to the beginning") shows Alan shot in the forehead with the bullet of light (by Saga?🤔)
The number of each draft changes in the plot board (draft 1, 2 and 3). With that in mind, it's safe to say that INITIATION is comprised by 3 separate subsequent drafts.
-DRAFT 1: Alan wakes and touches his forehead as if he has dreamed of being shot. He proceeds to Door's tv show (Late Night).
A few moments after mr. Door scene, Alan gets attacked and killed by Scratch/Dark Presence, as he can't get the door open.
He wakes up. But this time, inside the writer's room! He attempts to rewrite the scene.
This is when something very interesting happens: A speedrun montage of live action scenes plays out, which ends with Alan getting shot with the bullet of Light.
After that, Alan wakes up again in front of the tv monitor broadcasting Door's show. Only this time, Alan has written Alex Casey in the scene as well. The way I understand this addition is that Alan wanted to establish the character of Alex Casey in INITIATION, so that he could "assume the role of the detective" and, thus, go deeper in his investigation for the murder sites (places of inspiration that could grant him access to Parliament Tower, where the "RETURN" manuscript pages were to be found).
It's important to note that, Alan gets the flashlight and the stereotypical object of defense in every story, the gun, from a deceased Alex Casey. Casey is a sacrificial lamb so that Alan can get the tools he need in order to proceed.
Back to the concept of the loop, now.
Draft 1 ends with Alan visiting Parliament Tower, where he finds himself dead on the writing room, and he gets possessed by Scratch.
----------------------------------------------------
-Draft 2: Alan wakes in fear inside the writer's room, and he says: "The Dark Presence stopped me from escaping. I found the front-page of a novel called 'Returned' ".
Alan sits to write but gets shot by himself.
He wakes up in the writer's room again, and he says: "Scratch stopped me before I could finish my edits to the manuscript. I needed a new draft of initiation."
Again, a speedrun montage of live action scenes plays out and ends with Alan getting shot with the bullet of Light.
---------------------------------------------------
Draft 3: Alan wakes in front of the tv (Masks)
This draft ends with Alan shooting himself and realising that he was Scratch all along.
Conclusion:
-Draft 1 begins after Alan geting shot with the bullet of Light, and ends with Alan getting possessed by Scratch.
-Draft 2 begins after Alan getting possessed by Scratch, and ends with Alan getting shot with the bullet of Light.
-Draft 3 begins after Alan getting shot with the bullet of Light, and ends with Alan getting possessed by Scratch.
a) if this is indeed the repetitive sequence of events ,and b) if every time that Alan gets shot with the bullet of Light is by Saga, then I have three questions.
1) Regarding the aforementioned speedrun live action montage which plays right after Alan sat to write Alex Casey in Door's show: how Alan got shot by Saga, when in fact he hadn't even met her, up until this point? He sees her vision for the first time in the subway murder site (Casey).
2) the same question goes for Alice: if Alan learns about ascension after being shot with the bullet (Alice's consciousness) by Saga, then why does he appear to be unaware of this crucial information during the whole first playthrough?
3) If all these 3 initiation drafts comprise one complete loop cycle, why are shortened loops being interpolated within the whole loop? (by the term "interpolated" loops, I mean the short speedrun live action montage sequences which end with Alan shot with the bullet of Light)
I'm sorry If my comment is confusing, but I'm trying really hard to understand the repetitive motif of events😂 If only you could enlighten me please. Thank you for your time!
My thoughts after finishing this game were essentially “wow Sam Lake must’ve watched True Detective sometime between the first game and this and REALLY liked that ‘time is a flat circle’ theme”
I mean shit, they even use the same cult spiral symbol and the same antler wearing cultists. If the first game feels like a love letter to Twin Peaks and Stephen King then the sequel extends its thanks to the shows True Detective and Hannibal. Honestly someone should do a video on the apparent influences on Alan Wake series, showcasing what they lift from other sources and recontextualize them.
I really enjoy these videos! It’s a shame so few channels deep dive into the RCU. I only know of you and Hidden Machine.
I know Max Derrat has done a few as well. I'd check them out if you haven't
Thanks man great video 😍👍
You got it!
But the Dark Presence was already a prisoner of the story. That was established in the first Alan Wake. For all the hand wringing about Alan's responsibility for the lives lost/ruined by the events of Departure, it was clear then that the story shackled the Dark Presence, made it adhere to the rules of the story as well, thus making a Lovecraftian nightmare... managable. Defeatable.
The Darkness is like an Ocean it never ends it just keeps Flowing and like a River it can go in many different Directions coming to many different Places and pool becoming a new Lake right....Max.
Hehe it would be cool if that was the ending and showed Max from Max Payne one at The End of that game with Max looking in to a Dark Alley saying whos there and Mr Scarch looking like Alan came out of The Dark Smiling.
Respect and keep up the epic work.
"You don't need to tell me this is a horror story".
Amazing video, as always! I cant wait for your new take on Zane!
I wouldn't say I KNOW what's up with Zane but I have some new thoughts for sure.
@@GamingUniversityUoG Is Zane the looped Alan? Is the Alan who completes the Hero's Journey, Alan's Self, and the Alan which stays behind is Alan's Shadow? Hence is the reason why Ahti always calls Alan by the name "Tom" because the character we play is Alan's Shadow?
Especially since Tom Zane wasn't voiced by McCaffrey this time around (and sadly, never will be again) that would seem to indicate that Tom Zane-II is different from Tom Zane-I. And it's probably significant that a McCaffrey-voiced character guided Alan in the first game, and also in this second one -- first as Zane, second as Casey.
Perfect as always dude
Thank you thank you!
Gonna go ahead and say it would be criminal not to nod to you in the Remedy verse somehow in future games. Your analysis are all so thorough and digestible. Also, it wouldn't be a stretch to think an AWE could occur on TH-cam, especially one as meta as this!
"Im my own deus ex machina?" - from where i seing it, Alan managed to get out from the Dark Pace, when we experiencing the 1st playthrou. We playing al 2nd Alan is trying to escape 1st Alan sending hints to his previous versions as they trying to rewrite the story. (Alan 1 sending hints to Alan 2, Alan 2 to Alan 3 and so on...)
"It's not a loop, its a spiral" every previous versions of Alan Wake experiencing the same path, until they failing and trying to rewrite the story. The begining of spiral - 1st version of the story, the end of spiral - escaping from the Dark Place. That is how Dark Presence is caught. It never escapes the Dark Place, becouse there are always Alan Wake, who just starts to write the story.
"Yes you will, and no you don't" is suppotring this... When 2nd Alan Wake escapes th Dark Place, he will experience every step that 1st did (timeline is linear and can't be changed (like in Quantum Break when Paul Serene create 2 versions of himself, but 2nd is few minutes older and already had that conversation - time is continue to go forward)) Our playeble version of Alan just neded one more loop, to understant that this is not a loop, but spiral.
Hello I love your Alan Wake videos so much! I was wondering if you were aware that Alan is in Dead by Daylight? He has lore and story there that ties into The Dark Place and Night Springs in a cool way.
Yeah I've heard that they are considering his involvement a Night Springs episode. I fully plan on continuing the playlist after the DLC for AW2 comes out. Might include a DBD episode.
fantastic analysis as always. I really can't wait to see the ending of Zane's Story.
Actually, there is a permanent "Over" state, but it is based on Writer Alan (or Us) giving up permanently. If we stop Playing, this means Alan the Writer stops sending Character Alan in. But the Dark Presence is waiting for that to happen, for our Light to go away. A hole to be filled.
These ideas also seem to rhyme with the time loop present in the Legacy of Kain series, specifically what happens with Raziel and his decision to enter the Reaver of his own volition. In realizing he is the soul-stealing entity within the sword, Raziel has made peace with his fate and has saved himself from the insanity said to torment the entity within the Soul Reaver.
Never seen or played Legacy of Kain. I have heard nothing but good things about it
I think it was during (or after) AN that Alan gave the dark presence a backstory and bound it to the rules of a palpable being thag can be destroyed
So it clicked for me the other day that the Clicker is thematically still doing the same thing: Bringing light to darkness, which is how Alan describes the process of making a new reality.
Yes you will and no you won't is referring to him escaping and then going back because of Casey and saga.
Oh yeah, "you choose" Basically means in his murder jacket chapter alan has a choice to stay in the real world or going back again to deerfest dark presence edition to stop scratch.
That's the plain meaning, yes.
There's always a deeper, esoteric meaning though.
Agree to disagree, but the Clicker always did what it was said to do in AW2. Both instances of Alan using it in Departure make impossible and sudden changes to reality. Night cannot simply turn to Day, Alan can’t simply obliterate the Shadow with a hug. But the Clicker can brute force these changes.
Alan just took it a step further in AW2 and applied the Clicker to writing, I’d assume to imbue it with even more mystical power.
Zane's last line was a great detail I forgot about. We still don't understand how the loops affect him. If they make a 3rd game, he could be the main enemy. Plus we did see he and Dr. Darling have met. There is no telling what they will be able to do together.
This (around 9:53) sounds a bit like the Quantum Suicide / Quantum Immortality episode of Night Springs, which I think the first one we come across.
Didn't think of it in those terms but yeah technically that episode sums it up well.
Now Zanes monologue makes sense
One of these days I'm back tracking to the poems that Samantha found and trying to find new nuggets of insight
Love it. The contradictions make sense in the stories
Hard to wrap our heads around but that's half the fun
@@GamingUniversityUoG And it really helps knowing that the people at Remedy actually seem to _care_. From the first scene of Alan Wake they've been explaining the rules they're going to play by. No cheap explanations. No dei ex machinae. Alan calling himself out as being his own deus ex machina makes sense within the nightmare dream logic of the Dark Place in particular, but within its world shared with Control more generally.
After all, consider the commonplace office announcements in Control that are surreal to the point of comedy: the Oldest House has no windows, and if you see a window to blindfold yourself and proceed to the nearest shelter -- and you will be excused for the dress code violation; being caught in a House Shift is not grounds for overtime; if you find your office or its contents changed, speak to yourself in a reassuring tone so as to calm to the room down; Pink documents must be incinerated or they could cause bodily harm; and so on. There are many times when the Bureau kind of reminds me of the occult version of Aperture Science in a way that belies the horror of what the FBC deals with on a daily basis.
Another mr scratch could been born but without it being the same person in its own way i just finished the game and i loved the twist with Wake and Scratch but i could kinda figure it out.
This reminded me of SOMA(Wont spoil great game if you enjoyed alan wake) a similar ending with only one difference alan wake ending for both alan their journey was not over but soma despite its similarities had one conclusion it was doomed in the end.
Nice!
Hope you enjoy!
Great!
What did the Alan that escaped lose once he trapped a "part" of himself in the Dark Place? What part was it? Will that do anything to the escapee Alan?
And also I wonder, what stops the imprisoned part of Alan from trying to escape again and again? Just like the part that escaped, I think so can the imprisoned part come up with a whole different plan of escape, and succeed.
What you said is true, it might go more insane and become a new villain that will try to get revenge on the escapee Alan. He might even go as far as to bring the Dark Presence alongside him during the escape, because he just won't care anymore about keeping it in the Dark Place anymore. I wonder if it means Alan will have to do something to fully integrate this "dark part" into himself and leave the Dark Place behind forever to have the Freedom to Live. This is a nice setup to the third game.
I love how i understood everything and still learned nothing
Is that a kingdom hearts reference?
@@GamingUniversityUoG yes it is haha, i thought nobody would get it xD
This really does make sense to me 🤗 And I am suuuuper curious to see what mahem Zane en Darling can get up to in the dark place 😅
Here we go
Buckle up!
I think the Alan that continues the loop is really just the character in the story of Return. Whereas the Alan that escapes is like the actor that played that character. The movie ended, and so the actor gets to walk away. Like Zane at the end of his scene in the chair. But as the story loops, the characters remain trapped, like character Alan and Alex Casey. Like a film left to repeat indefinitely on its own. The Dark Presence wears many faces, but that's all it can be; a character. It doesn't exist outside of any work of art it inhabits. It played the role of Barbara in both Zane's film and Alan's book Departure, and it played the role of Scratch in American Nightmare and Alan Wake 2. So as Alan, Zane and even Sam Lake are able to walk away from the story after it's conclusion, the Dark Presence cannot. It holds no presence outside of the story.
Babe wake up new gaming uni analyisis video dropped
I'm a huge fan of your videos, Dean, so I don't want my notes to seem like an attempt to debunk your opinion. I'll just share my perspective.
1. American Nightmare explains to us that the prime reason why Alan wrote the episode Return is to hunt Mr. Scratch. And the writer succeeded in permanently burning this demon. Escape was written into this story and didn't work, but it was a secondary goal.
Mr. Scratch from the new game is the same fictional character within the Hero's Journey's continuity, but "played" by a different entity, the Dark Presence. The entity from American Nightmare "played" Mr. Scratch in Departure, but departed from this "role" of the Jungian shadow due to a recursive loop with dark gossip, so this "actor" was replaced.
2. I think the Scratching Hag was referring to Thomas Zane when she talked about Alan's first work of art. She called Alan Tom, like the old gods. Cynthia from the novelization mentioned that Wake looks a lot like Zane as well.
3. The Dark Presence has always been in a dark place, unlike Zane. Sam Lake spoke about this in response to the question whether the writer created this entity.
When Saga fired, the Bullet of Light blew the Dark Presence out of Alan, but the Dark Presence regenerated from its remains. I think this line implies an explanation of why the Dark Presence existed between drafts. The darkness itself came from the stain that the Scratching Hag left when she touched the writer. Cynthia explained it, as did the Andersons in the new game.
Nevertheless, despite the notes above, your video gave me a lot of food for thought, and I enjoyed watching it. Thank you again.
can you share the video where Sam speaks to whether the writer created the Dark Presence?
@@bigben1121 Sam answered questions from fans on Reddit, and The Sudden Stop fan site saved those answers. I tried to send you a link, but TH-cam deleted my attempts.
@ruslanchernikov650 I'll do some digging thanks for the reply!
I almost feel like time isn’t a factor in this, but more fluid. In the same way an audience sees art as set in stone, the creator has many different ways in which things can and once did go. As with discarded drafts of a story, the events in those drafts have happened and still happen, but aren’t what we (the audience) see. In the same way the base game happened, we played it, it was “overwritten” by new game+, those events happened and didn’t happen, so it would be less divergent time lines or multiple universes and more instances or what ifs (not the marvel version), an author brainstorming character moments or retelling the story with different details. Kinda like learning about mythology, there isn’t one true version of the story or parallel realities where Zeus did different things, but just different versions. I can’t remember where it is, but I go back to an FBC file on “subjective reality” and forcing one’s perception of it onto others.
Tom is Alan... HE'S THE FUTURE VERSION OF ALAN WHO IS FOREVER TRAPPED INSIDE THE DARKNESS GOING MORE AND MORE INSANE.
Great analysis! But how does the "master of many worlds" comes into play here? I doubt it's just "oh, there are now several of me"
Alan the Writer can now insert himself into other Worlds in the Remedyverse from the Void. It isn't just "other selves". It is other Characters. Other Stories.
it's not a bad theory, but I'm still going to pick and choose what bits I use for my own headcannon. Sure, he created the second scratch from himself with the bullet of light, the first one was created by zane when he dove deep, made his own world, and left his body behind. The original though predates everything, back to thought itself. That one is still trapped inside the caldera, and thus can still power further AWE's in the region.
Or so I view it.
That's surprisingly coherent. Well done.
I'm particularly fascinated by the difference between the Dark Presence and the Dark Place. In the first game, I kinda took it as given that the Dark Place was just "the domain of the Dark Presence." It's prison was a "dark place" **because** it was trapped there.
But now, that's clearly not the case. The Dark Presence is a denizen of the Dark Place, but clearly not its ruler.
Most interesting to me is that while the Dark Presence is explicitly malevolent, the Dark Place seems to be neutral. Dangerous, but not evil, like an ocean.
To me, it's reminiscent of how, biblically, the devil walks about on earth, and will be cast into hell in the apocalypse, but thanks to Milton's rubbish Bible fanfic, pop culture thinks of the devil as the ruler of hell.
I have a feeling that Alan Wake doesnt really exist and he is nothing more than a character in Zanes story.
Zane wrote himself out of the story by creating Alan to take his place in the dark dimension.
Thats why Ahti and others that are not affected by the story keep calling Alan as Tom
I have heard that hypothesis tossed around after AW2. Personally I don't like the idea that Alan is merely created from nothing to be a body swap candidate. That being said there is merit to the idea that Zane is attempting to confuse everyone so that he can take Alan's place. Very much like Scratch attempted to do in American Nightmare. I'll have a video about this whole thing sooner or later.
It isn't a retcon or a new backstory though.
The Dark Presence always existed because of those events.
Alan always created it, but he created it at the beginning and end of time. When it was created doesn't matter for it to have existed before Alan's first art.
It always existed before and after his art because of his art.
The Dark Presence was only at a different point in its story than we were during American Nightmare. A different point in the spiral.
It didn't get retconned at all here. Its birth was always The Bullet of Light.
It just doesn't matter when that happened.
What actually occurred was they prevented The Dark Presence from Retconning reality which is what it was doing.
I personally don't see it that way but I have heard that argument used. Dark Presence is an Actor that gets cast to play a role in stories. In one story its character has one history and in another its story plays another.
@@GamingUniversityUoG not sure I get that. The Actors and Characters you refer to IMO just appear to be the same individuals at different stages of the spiral.
Door tells us that armies are fighting for us. Alan in a panic attack basically gives away that he is a pawn being used by the ascended version of Alan.
Different distinct individuals don't fit with the spiral. Everyone is a character and actor, and they are writing each other's stories. Stories due to the Dark Place resonate to always have been. That is some of the very first info we learn. Causality doesn't exist. We see Saga and Alan do this.
Deerfest seems a pretty big clue to this. Those that have been overwritten aren't actors. They were real versions of the individuals. We know this because of Tor, Odin, Ahti.
IMO for actors to be distinguished in any meaningful way it would mean that The Dark Presence had to be using separate Actors. But we know it wasn't. We know it was directly infecting reality.
They wouldn't have The Dark Presence work under a completely different fundamental than the rest of The Spiral.
I’m sure this is a dumb question but does this have spoilers for final draft in it? I’m about half way through my ng+ playthrough and will need to come back to watch this afterwards if so.
Yes it has spoilers for New Game + Sorry for the late response
@@GamingUniversityUoG no worries! I appreciate you getting back to me! I love your work so I am definitely going to tune in once I have time to finish the Final Draft.
In the long run, it will probably turn out to be not such a great idea to leave a "shadow" of yourself within the grasp of the dark presence.
Perhaps extradimensional entity A-010 "The Shadow" is so called because it is the amalgamation of many artists' Jungian Shadows.
I have one major question regarding the NG+ ending that I was hoping you, or someone here, may be able to shine some light on; When Saga makes the phone call to Logan she picks up and explains that she had a terrible nightmare, which at first seemed to me like a good ending, aka: the story is over and Logan is safe; everything returned to normal. However, one question really itches me, how is Saga able to make a phone call to the outside world from within the dark place? Almost makes it seem like she's not calling the real Logan, but a 'story' version of Logan that's been created within the dark place. Maybe it's possible that any time Alan writes anything within the dark place it's not actually affecting reality, but instead, creating pockets of a dream reality in the dark place.
Just something I've been thinking about. Maybe there's a more practical answer, but it's been bugging me.
Ok, so basically the ending takes place outside of the dark place. Saga escapes the dark place by entering ahti's puddle in the fountain and gets transported to the writer's room inside the valhalla nursing home where she meets with Alan, and Alan escaped the deerfest overlap of the dark place after he got the copy of Return (as indicated by the unnatural daylight turning back into night)
@@yiiiaaboyyy2161 I didn't even consider that they were in the Valhalla nursing home writer's room since it looks exactly like the Cauldron Lake/Dark Place writer's room. That makes a lot more sense. Thanks.
i think future alan told him he must going out of darkplace and take control on other part too as tor said dont screw it tom ! we works in other side ! i think real alan our knowlage alan is free now and he is grandmaster he have seer ability and doors ability too peek in on other univese now its make sense why warlin door ubset about it may he act like him and f up everything again for others like door did and tor got angry and freya stories started .but alan play safe here ,there is one of him back to begining with knowlage its spiral and darkplace works like this with bullet of light to not getting capture with darkpresence or maybe have ability fight back ( we know when dark presence presents we cant fight back just run forest run:) )and himself with all part of him combined (shadow self etc )to help everyone in other side and he leave tom as villan for a thrill ! thats why tom have dark bullet ....sam really infuenced on 3rd season of twin peaks in alan wake 2 ..
I still need to know what the ending music is.
Departed Souls from the Chrono Cross OST
See I took it as a reference to him leaving and then choosing to return. So yes he did escape, but also no he did not. He still came back.
Can you talk the ethics in BioShock? Bu the way, Persona is just one of the many spin offs in the Shin Megami Tensei series, and is full religuos references
I'm currently working on Shin Megumi Tensei 3. Loving the Vedic allusions in it so far. I have done one video for Bioshock. Once I clear up my plate from other projects I would love to dive into that series.
Ethics in Bioshock? I imagine that the people of Rapture thought of morality the same way you and I think about unicorns or leprechauns, a distant myth with no foundation in real life.
👏👏
WAIT- could this mean Tom the Filmmaker is a failed version of Alan? Or could this mean Tom Zane is a failed version of Thomas Zane who escaped the dark place into the pocket universe?
So Alan Wake is in a loop, in each loop, he gets free and at the same time he will be trapped. Splitting him up in half. So there are multiple Alans which are free and trapped at the same time, but just a fraction of the original Alan Wake? Does Mr. Door sees them all? So many questions... lets loop around it :)
the is more a retelling less an analysis. There is no interpretation of the symbolism (depression etc) for instance the part of alan trapped keeps looping and than this part has its own final cut so after each loop another small part of him escapes but as in depression a part of you always rembers its how you heal it and life with it
But what about Alice?, is she still in the dark place after the final draft?
Alas
Yep finally got this done
Now we know why it's called Alan Wake 2 😂
Lmao let's go with that
Dude, your way smarter than me...
you take the game too literally its a metaphor for depression and how your close ones suffer from it too
Very "Zen" 😝
Man sagas actress didn't do a great job with this role I kinda hope they don't have her in any future games her acting is rrrrrrouuughhh
I don't wanna be too harsh, but i kinda agree. Saga didnt do much for me, kinda a dull, bland character tbh. Was just lacking in her writing a bit, but i think there's still potential for her.
I think it was more that she didn't have much to work with. I have heard similar arguments over Matthew's portrayal of Alan in the first game. But American Nightmare and AW 2 really gave him more to work with and shine.
I can finally gather my thoughts and give an honest opinion.
I like Alan Wake's story in the game. Rewriting reality, murder scenes... pretty cool storytelling mechanics, too bad it wasn't ulilized a bit more, the Dark New York hub is very small. Way too small. Scratch reveal was a bit predictable, but at least they tried to do something unexpected with that.
I really don't like Saga's part, though. Sorry. Tried to enjoy it, but couldn't. Ended up looking for nursery rhymes, deer heads and lunchboxes, but didn't care about the character and her arc at all.
The race-swapping of an already estabilished character, Casey telling her all the time how great she is (obvious Sweet Baby Inc inserts) - it was off-putting. Maybe I'm overreacting, but that's how I felt for most of the game.
And Mind Palace was boring.
Now, half a year after the release, what do you think?
Sweet Baby Inc detected
Let's just ignore that elephant for now...
You don’t need to bring that up every time.
Just make sure we convince them to abandon Sweet Baby before Control 2 gets corrupted by something worse then the Hiss.... the woke