This video tied something together for me that I don't think I ever realized. Elves' trance versus other races' sleep is the G-rated version of the Gift of Man from Tolkien's work. Elves lived forever, their spirits returning to Valinor if their bodies died, and possibly returning to Arda at great need (as Glorfindel did). Humans were blessed so that, when their lives ended, their spirits were freed from the world and went where none but Eru Iluvatar knew.
I've always liked the aspect of Eldar (Warhammer 40'000) psychology that due to their long lives, ennui is a constant issue for them, and so they're constantly looking for new things to catch their attention for a decade or so until that gets boring, and they move on to the next thing.
There's also a note I quite liked in the Pathfinder book, that while Elves tend to look down on the other races a bit, they're excellent judges of character. An elf might not want to live next to a dwarf, but they'll be the first to commend that dwarf's smithing skill. People that are particularly worthy aren't even considered "flawed" because of their race, as in there's no "You're a great swordsman for a human," they'd just say "You're a great swordsman."
I know it's an oldie. But I just watched it, and it's a goodie. :) I've always thought that elves who interact with the other races would become rather morose. Their lives would be spent watching the short lived races flicker and die. I would totally understand the trend towards a sort of self-protective isolation. Not isolation born of contempt, but rather isolation because they care too much and have witnessed too much. I don't necessarily see their tendency toward chaos as rebellious, but rather pragmatic. They've seen all of the machinations of power and laws, of social structures and restructures. They've become a bit jaded about all of our attempts to control each other, and don't give it much consideration.
A Beholder might Vicious Mockery an Elf about its inability to dream during the fight. Given Beholders are only created by dreams, the Beholder may also mean it as calling the Elf races impotent. A Beholder should have nuanced, sick burns you have to relive each time you trance.
I think the Inheritance series is an excellent example of how to play an elf. In that book series elves were in fact, superior to humans in every way, however, they were not all haughty and arrogant. Of course there were characters that were like that but there others that were very matter-of-fact about it. They never brought it up, much like how we don't applaud ourselves for being superior to dogs. And there were others that pitied humans more or less because they believed humans would never live full lives. There was even one character that questioned whether or not that superiority didn't come at too great a cost, because in that world elves were not always long lived etc, since elves had lost a lot of their drive as a race when they became that innately good at everything.
I know exactly what you're talking about and I do much the same in my campaign(and I know to which character you're referring). I also have one particular elf in my campaign that the party is going to encounter before too much longer that's nearly 7000 years old and quite simply doesn't care about the lives of mortals any longer, considering them too insignificant to cause any significant change upon the world unless they work with, and not against, greater powers.
I've been developing a Drow character who, a bit of a foolish elf, leaves the Underdark because she realizes her inability to adequately serve the one deity that didn't abandon her people. She does eventually develop more of a conscious, but it's not something she forms on her own. She flees because she knows to fail in the duties given to her, best cast scenario, may lead to her becoming a low class house slave. Worst case, death or deformation. After all, Lolth has been known to punish failure severely (Driders are a decent example). I feel like some aspects of Drow society, out of all the elves, isn't really taken into consideration at times. They're simply regarded as the evil elves who definitely think they're better than everyone else, but they have more to fear than most other elves. Consider their cutthroat politics and that their own patron deity is a constant and menacing presence known to make appearances on the material plane. Yet, and I could just be mistaken, I rarely ever see anyone actually role-playing a Drow based on the character's fear of Lolth. I suppose people don't like weakening their characters with fear in such a way, especially when Drow are the stereotyped pick for edgy teens, but analyzing the dark elves and their connection to their goddess can create some interesting role-playing dynamics. Fear of failure can also make Drow seem less alien and easier to realistically portray. Perhaps elves just aren't a self doubting people and my musings are for nothing, but I like pondering the possibilities anyway.
That concept sounds super interesting to me. Maybe down the line she's put in a position where doing what Lolth wants directly harms the party. She has to choose between her friends and her God, and decide if she's more afraid of hurting her friends or failing Lolth.
Love it .... The self doubting, fear and dealing with Lloth's cruelty aspects are great for roleplaying a Drow. My favorite character that I'm currently actively playing is also a Drow, but she didn't leave Lloth's society (she actually never lived there) but her parents did - typical wrong side of the tracks, her father was a low born scout and her mother was a wizard from a noble house. They fled right before she was born, and she was born while they were on the run, so grew up a nomad in the Underdark, then the surface (where they still remained nomads as no one felt comfortable letting a Drow family live there) until they found a small village that had a couple Eilistraee worshipers that lived there for a long while so they were finally accepted. The entire time her father trained her to fight and always be ready and look over her shoulder because her mother's family and other drow will always be hunting them. Fast Forward to when she's in her 80s -- basically a teenager in human aging - and her mother's Older sister (who is a Cleric of Lloth) and brothers find them, proceed to burn down the village, and sacrifice her mother to Lloth ....she tried to interrupt the sacrifice, and in turn is tortured by her aunt and made to watch all the villagers be murdered before her, and her father turned into a drider (which her aunt made her believe was all her fault). Then to top it off her aunt tells her that Lloth wants her to live with the horrors she has seen/endured FOR NOW and proceeds to brand her with Lloth's symbol, and leave her unconscious in the burned village surrounded by the dead . So for roleplaying aspect, she is terrified of other drow thinking they are coming after her, she is massively scarred from the torture (50% of her body is burned, massive scars on face and torso, and they also blinded her left eye) so has to deal not only with being a drow on the surface, but also disfigured with a fear of fire, then talked to DM on side so other players don't know this part .... but the brand was not only a reminder, but anytime she is near someone who channels Lloth's divine powers (paladin, Cleric, handmaiden, etc..) the brand starts burning her and she gets penalties on AC, hit rolls and concentration due to the unbearable pain.
I would love for you guys to do a video about how long lived races and short lived races interact with each other. I have always found it incredibly troublesome to use. Most of the excuses (long lived, slow to decide on things) seem flimsy to me. If I was to try and write a campaign world with elves and humans there would be a 9:1 ratio among the level 20 characters favoring the elves. And that power disparity at the top would inform all of the political structures.
I'm currently doing a high elf wizard who was a tuter at a human noble court he got the job because he offered to be payed for just a wizard tuter while also teaching swordsmanship he's doing it to study humans he finds their ambition and greed interesting however loves their drive And inability to give up so he's writing a novel Or collection of short stories
Currently playing a wood elf who has been literally branded as a thief, so fled her home in shame, and hooked up with a dwarf Battle Rager and acted as a scout for a dwarf military unit... she was eventually brought back by the party aasimar paladin who was a childhood friend of her and her betrothed, and is annoyed that he lost out on the chance to wear his shiniest armour as best man
Elves need a major reimagining. No matter where you look, elves are always represented in the same way. Essentially, they are forest spirits interpreted through the lens of human values. To break the cliche, I would suggest focusing more on their fey nature rather than their super-human qualities.
I love the idea of the elven trance, but sadly none of my gm's allow my elven characters to utilize it how it's written. My elves were always out cold for those 4 hours. I played an Woodelf monk wich ran with a mercenary troop for around 200 odd years since he was born into it. And was very cynical of the World. With the mobility feat. Math monk anyone?
Wood Elf - Hippie Elf. High Elf - Dickish Elf. Drow Elf - Evil Elf. Drizzt - awesome Elf. The RP challenge of an Elf is trying to get passed those basic stereotypes. I tend to rely a lot more on the background when trying to RP an Elf than I would with any of the other races. It's really that background and backstory that's going to differentiate them.
In the homebrew i'm making elves actually do need to sleep on occasion. The ability to go into a trance and resist sleep abilities was something taught to them from the fey world as well as a trick some dragons taught them a long time before current history. There still nature loving in my game but i'm trying to bring them a bit more to the origional celtic and germanic elves who would viciously tear people appart if they mistreated nature
Let me start by saying this. Dave. Wow. I didn't know you were so deep. "Envious of the ability to dream." That, sir, is gold. Elven behaviours that I have been exposed to in RP terms, especially from my 2E days, seemed to centre around racial and cultural purity. Whereas other races were "flawed" in some way that prohibited them from longer lifespans and a vast array of racial abilities, the elves seemed to always look down their alabaster noses at the rest of us. In my current 5E campaign, our Elven Ranger has been taken in a completely different direction. He's about as country bumpkin as you can imagine. It's very refreshing. Something I see in Elven player-characters is the ever present "blase" outlook on the behaviours of others. They always come off as unsurprised and unimpressed. Which I have always found as odd. If you've lived for a century...then why are you still "unimpressed" yet still level 1? It always comes off as teenage angsty "you don't know, man. It's been done." Yeah. By younger races. Last Tuesday. You weren't there. Apparently you were at Poetry Reading # 43571 of 75000. I can still remember when I played the only Half-Orc in a party of Elves. One High Elf looked at my character and said "Orcs are a problem cured with a little patience and some well-placed arrows." My Half-Orcs response.."There aren't enough trees to make enough arrows. We'll breed you out." What I would like to see is perhaps an expansion on what the Elves have been doing with their long lives if not wandering the world. In Tholl, they had the highest technological advancements. They had black powder and air-ships while others fought with bows and used oars. They advanced their sciences for the sake of knowledge, not expansion, and protected their secrets.
I do feel like the blase attitude isn't fitting either considering one of the main reasons most elves become adventurers is to see new things and experience the world. So the whole point of an elf character becoming an adventurer is to be surprised by new things. This is coming from a guy who almost always plays as an elf, while some elves may have a muted reaction to most things that shouldn't make them completely emotionless, playing them like that is just kinda boring and doing a disservice to the character and potential growth. Also I won't even talk about the racial purity thing, because that's a hornet's nest I don't want to kick, but it is also a weird thing to set as the basis of your character, even for an elf who are, while usually sometimes haughty, never really reach the "eradicate non-elves" levels, considering the Player's Handbook say they're usually Chaotic Good, which should mean most elves are usually kind and value freedom.
indeed they might be, as Dave mentioned, "envious of the ability to dream", however, having to sleep and falling for some spells might be seen as a flaw. Also, the same way Dwarves's immunity to poison opens even more cultural doors for cuisine for instance, some Elven societies might fous exactly on sleep & charm spells because it wouldn't damage their kind
I don't know if you guys are familiar with High Rollers, but at one point, an elf was turned into a werewolf and put to sleep. That could be a really cool conversation to have withthe NPC later-- I wonder what it would feel like to sleep for the first time at 150 years old... Then, the GM can even insert a wild plot hook via the Dream spell, if he were to want to.
i made a wood elf tribe and they try to be helpful to people who pass through but they are extremely curious about others as they are seculded in their forest realm. there's a lot more but i dont want to put it out in the open.
I find it interesting that in the race videos put out by the various groups all say the elf is the hardest to play. I've played elves almost exclusively. They are my favorite race. They don't seem that alien to me.
as a player coming from the eldritch wizardry stapled supplement thru the 79 ad&d players handbook era. i'd say if you played an elf (or a halfling, gnome or other carnival circus race), it says to me that deep inside you lack manly qualities. for me it was all about the human magic-user (my main), human thief (first alt) and human cleric (second alt). i would love to discuss in detail the intricacies of avoiding magical aging (abusing the wish spell) with the creative use of magic jar and simulacrums, not taking damage and ruining your silk clothing with gore or sweat from physical labor (or disrupting my casting ability by having to "take watch"), and avoiding death by using phase doors. perhaps the fine art of dog peppers and coin shaving. i wish our group from elementary school to mid 30's didn't break up. a pox on children.
I never really cared for the elves. The only ones I really play in certain scenarios are drow, and even then I have to get sunglasses to cancel out the sunlight sensitivity which I think sucks ass. The reason most people play the elves is that because of the way they read it, the elves only take 4 hours for a long rest. which is really up to the dm.
Elves can sleep, they just don't need to. They trance instead and get rest that way. Some of them might even pity sleeping races, because they need to lay themselves unconscious for multiple hours per day. "We elves aren't resistant against charm. Other races just are weak against it."
There are a couple of issues i have with the race. The first one being: "I was there Gandalf. 9000 years ago." Now this is D&D and not LotR, but 700+ is quite mindblowingly unimaginable. The way they are depicted they are considered somewhat immature at the age of 100, which is where you normaly start as a youthful adventurer. This is quite problematic but can be interesting in the hands of advanced, not to say mature, players. The ability scores are borked. So you have no negative values, okay. An elf has no strenght bonus. Depending on the subrace you are getting intelligence, wisdom and charisma. When you look up half-orc you get an ability bonus to strength by two. A human gets +1 across the board (including strenght). So an elf is strength-wise on par with halfling and gnome. That is a hidden penalty. They don't like penalties these days, except... they still use them. Fine. Unfortunately that ties into a bigger problem: If you give penalties and bonuses you have to set a certain kind of standart. Usually that standart is human, because we know what that is, because we are humans. If you use a nonexistant standart you have just disentangled your entire system from common ground. That is annoying becaus it shows a certain lack of understanding what this system is for in the first place. Who is the standart? Who wrote this? A gnome? Furthermore... Drow and only Drow get +charisma. They talk about concepts like ethernal beauty and give a charisma bonus (and elves deserve one, generally) to the Drow! By whose standart for aesthetics? H.R. Giger? (i like Giger, btw, but it is indiscutably a very savage and openly obscene way of aesthetics). I see why this makes sense mechanics wise (priests&sorcerers), but common sense, if not to say: roleplay-wise sense? And for what? Just because someone wanted to hide that -1 that is still in the system regardless and splice in a few subrace differences. Convoluted. There are things i would have handled differently. Its nothing gamebreaking, of course, i am extremely picky.
Nemesis the warlock keep in mind charisma isnt a physical stat, its your force of will and aptitude to influence others. so for drow it makes sense as they are so set in their ways and skilled at manipulation
Agreed, but still it doesn't only make sense for Drow. It makes sense for all elves. And of all the elves the Drow are the most questionable choice. Drow raiding partys are dreaded and for a good reason. People do not think "oh, cool, the Drow come to visit us" - absolutely not. They may be adept at manipulating their own kind, but most people will opt to keep their distance. It will take a whole lot of skilled manipulation to overcome that, i tell you. Being a Drow makes things a lot harder NOT easier. There is lots of this stuff in there, like for example...sorcerers and their draconic heritage. Now, that in itself is not a problem, but when you add races with, lets say infernal bloodlines that gets a bit bity. You do either or, not both. I don't want to condem D&D here, but there are edges which clearly could have been avoided with a little more insight. I got material for beta playtests but ignored it aside of glancing through it quickly. Be assured, in the next edition, if they send me material again i will look into this and write to them one or two words about consistency.
A bit bity? What does that mean really? I'm just curious. And lets say, A Tiefling does become a Sorcerer. So their class adds draconic heritage, a lot of people have very mixed family tree's. It just adds flavor and room for the DM to use in game, if someone is creative and adaptive. Maybe? I sure know I can run with just about anything and make it fun and exciting.
Maybe you also had a Drow in your family tree so add weapons profession and Drow spells to your infernal heritage cantrips and dragon breath and wings (and tail&horns because you are a Tiefling) from draconic heritage. If you are a Tiefling sorcerer you have infernal heritage, of course. Not draconic. If you have both... well, then it gets complicated. There is a problem in my opinion. No, i wouldn't touch hybridized hybrids with a ten foot pole. Yet, that is how it is in the core rules. You can play, of course, whatever you like, but its pretty much cobbled together. You are using multiple types of flavour. Throw it into the Gumbo, you know.
The Elven trance thing is something I've never been able to find much information on. Where did it come from? What effect does it have on their way of life? Why do only Elves have this? I guess like Dwarves and their beards, it's just something that's kept open-ended so everyone can form their own interpretation of it. In the game Within the Ring of Fire, which you've mentioned previously, this idiosyncrasy of the Elven race is used almost as a Lucid Dream, essentially like a very vivid cutscene in a videogame. It's also not exclusive to Elves either, just about anything Fey-Related (Such as Satyrs or Ogres) experience it, at least in the few sessions of the game that I've been able to watch. Personally, I might use it along the lines of Dissociation, kinda like what Dave alluded to. High Elves might see an important moment in the life an ancestor from their perspective, while Wood Elves would use the feeling of animal fur or the smells of the forest to maintain their place in reality. The 5E PHB doesn't necessarily say whether Elves can use perception during Trance, so they might experience interlopers as something that simply doesn't seem right in their dream, which might snap them back to consciousness. Of course, even in modern times, the nature of dreams are a difficult thing to grasp, so if you're of the idea that dreams in our world are just fragments of memory that our brain plays while it defrags overnight, Elves might hate not being able to dream like other mortals, and get stuck with all of these nonsensical fragments floating around in their heads.
"...(Such as Satyrs or Ogres) experience it..." Saytrs, maybe, Orgres, um what? When did giants become Fey? On a more constructive note, however, the answer as to weather or not they can use perception while Trancing, the answer is no, they use their passive perception, where as races without Trance Have to do Perception checks with Disadvantage.
Mizati The setting where Within the Ring of Fire takes place in, named K'vega Thale, is entirely different from ones where D&D games take place in. One example is Ogres being considered Fey, or as they're often called in the game, Fairies. But thank you for the clarification.
imlaughing2death Gotcha, my bad, I didn't realize you were talking about an entirely different tabletop. Glad I could still be of assistance through =3
In AD&D the elves could go into the "Reverie". A meditation state where they reflected on their past memories. It is like an innate mental training that allowed them to retain their memories and sense of identity over their crazy long lifespans. It was because of this reverie that they have their resistance to charm (strong sense of identity), but came with the downside that they couldn't necessarily control what they remembered. So, for instance, they would try to avoid doing shameful or cruel deeds else they would spend the rest of their lives remembering those events. They could still sleep, and on rare occassions dream, and on even rarer occassions their dreams were prophetic. Though their eyes were open they were pretty much spaced out in their reverie. In AD&D I wouldn't have ruled that they could perceive any more than a sleeping human. However 5e states they remain semiconscious so I would let them go with passive perception with perhaps a disadvantage..
I almost exclusively play elves, half elves, gnomes, and fae (especially satyrs). I get them. It's humans, and dwarves that I think are difficult to understand. And most players get wrong. Also the dwarf vs elf player hate is stupid.
I personally like to ignore tthe at least 100 years old thing, It is so hard to know what that is like, so I make the elves n my game reach adulthood only a year or two behind humans, just thy live for a long time and are still treated as less experienced by the older elves. I don't want to have to come up with 00 years of backstory for one character
I've done more or less that: my elf rogue is 16 years old. She was washed up from the sea in a human port city, so that's all she knows. She's 16, she's a woman grown, although she has all the racial bonuses of an elf for some silly reason - she can speak Elvish, despite never having been taught it, or even met another elf; she can use all sorts of bows and swords, despite being a street rat who used a knife at best.
Mine are also mostly younger in age since I can't really put myself in their shoes otherwise. Another thing to keep in mind though is, as you get older, you have experienced more, and likely forgotten just as much, as you tend to only remember those few important impactful milestones. Unless you have eidetic memory or write everything down.
I made an elf... who was raised by humans. Xe curses xys longevity because 80% of the friendships xe forms are with races that live much shorter lives. Xe was orphaned at around 15 when xys entire family died when the forest they lived in got involved in a human war and got burned to the ground and was adopted by one of the soldiers that was involved in the battle before getting sent to his family in a poor urban community and getting involved in a thieves' guild. This and xe's not even 30 by then.
This is the first time I'm reading this comment but 4 days ago I finished my character's sheet with this EXACT SAME BACKSTORY. Like, just a little, slightly, different. It was a vulcano that destroid her ancestral home and it was a rogue that found and took her in. She suffered immensely when he passed from old age and that's why she decided to avoid forming connections. She grew up inside the Thieves Guild, not a single elf, so she's ignorant in many crafts and actually acts more like a human. Girl, we share the same braincells....
I don't even need to watch this, I know exactly how all people play elves: Sniff your own farts, hate everyone in a passive aggressive way, and pretend you are superior but fail every roll. DONE! :P
This video tied something together for me that I don't think I ever realized. Elves' trance versus other races' sleep is the G-rated version of the Gift of Man from Tolkien's work. Elves lived forever, their spirits returning to Valinor if their bodies died, and possibly returning to Arda at great need (as Glorfindel did). Humans were blessed so that, when their lives ended, their spirits were freed from the world and went where none but Eru Iluvatar knew.
I've always liked the aspect of Eldar (Warhammer 40'000) psychology that due to their long lives, ennui is a constant issue for them, and so they're constantly looking for new things to catch their attention for a decade or so until that gets boring, and they move on to the next thing.
There's also a note I quite liked in the Pathfinder book, that while Elves tend to look down on the other races a bit, they're excellent judges of character. An elf might not want to live next to a dwarf, but they'll be the first to commend that dwarf's smithing skill. People that are particularly worthy aren't even considered "flawed" because of their race, as in there's no "You're a great swordsman for a human," they'd just say "You're a great swordsman."
I know it's an oldie. But I just watched it, and it's a goodie. :)
I've always thought that elves who interact with the other races would become rather morose. Their lives would be spent watching the short lived races flicker and die. I would totally understand the trend towards a sort of self-protective isolation. Not isolation born of contempt, but rather isolation because they care too much and have witnessed too much.
I don't necessarily see their tendency toward chaos as rebellious, but rather pragmatic. They've seen all of the machinations of power and laws, of social structures and restructures. They've become a bit jaded about all of our attempts to control each other, and don't give it much consideration.
A Beholder might Vicious Mockery an Elf about its inability to dream during the fight. Given Beholders are only created by dreams, the Beholder may also mean it as calling the Elf races impotent. A Beholder should have nuanced, sick burns you have to relive each time you trance.
I think the Inheritance series is an excellent example of how to play an elf. In that book series elves were in fact, superior to humans in every way, however, they were not all haughty and arrogant. Of course there were characters that were like that but there others that were very matter-of-fact about it. They never brought it up, much like how we don't applaud ourselves for being superior to dogs. And there were others that pitied humans more or less because they believed humans would never live full lives. There was even one character that questioned whether or not that superiority didn't come at too great a cost, because in that world elves were not always long lived etc, since elves had lost a lot of their drive as a race when they became that innately good at everything.
I know exactly what you're talking about and I do much the same in my campaign(and I know to which character you're referring). I also have one particular elf in my campaign that the party is going to encounter before too much longer that's nearly 7000 years old and quite simply doesn't care about the lives of mortals any longer, considering them too insignificant to cause any significant change upon the world unless they work with, and not against, greater powers.
I've been developing a Drow character who, a bit of a foolish elf, leaves the Underdark because she realizes her inability to adequately serve the one deity that didn't abandon her people. She does eventually develop more of a conscious, but it's not something she forms on her own. She flees because she knows to fail in the duties given to her, best cast scenario, may lead to her becoming a low class house slave. Worst case, death or deformation. After all, Lolth has been known to punish failure severely (Driders are a decent example). I feel like some aspects of Drow society, out of all the elves, isn't really taken into consideration at times. They're simply regarded as the evil elves who definitely think they're better than everyone else, but they have more to fear than most other elves. Consider their cutthroat politics and that their own patron deity is a constant and menacing presence known to make appearances on the material plane. Yet, and I could just be mistaken, I rarely ever see anyone actually role-playing a Drow based on the character's fear of Lolth. I suppose people don't like weakening their characters with fear in such a way, especially when Drow are the stereotyped pick for edgy teens, but analyzing the dark elves and their connection to their goddess can create some interesting role-playing dynamics. Fear of failure can also make Drow seem less alien and easier to realistically portray. Perhaps elves just aren't a self doubting people and my musings are for nothing, but I like pondering the possibilities anyway.
That concept sounds super interesting to me. Maybe down the line she's put in a position where doing what Lolth wants directly harms the party. She has to choose between her friends and her God, and decide if she's more afraid of hurting her friends or failing Lolth.
Love it .... The self doubting, fear and dealing with Lloth's cruelty aspects are great for roleplaying a Drow. My favorite character that I'm currently actively playing is also a Drow, but she didn't leave Lloth's society (she actually never lived there) but her parents did - typical wrong side of the tracks, her father was a low born scout and her mother was a wizard from a noble house. They fled right before she was born, and she was born while they were on the run, so grew up a nomad in the Underdark, then the surface (where they still remained nomads as no one felt comfortable letting a Drow family live there) until they found a small village that had a couple Eilistraee worshipers that lived there for a long while so they were finally accepted. The entire time her father trained her to fight and always be ready and look over her shoulder because her mother's family and other drow will always be hunting them. Fast Forward to when she's in her 80s -- basically a teenager in human aging - and her mother's Older sister (who is a Cleric of Lloth) and brothers find them, proceed to burn down the village, and sacrifice her mother to Lloth ....she tried to interrupt the sacrifice, and in turn is tortured by her aunt and made to watch all the villagers be murdered before her, and her father turned into a drider (which her aunt made her believe was all her fault). Then to top it off her aunt tells her that Lloth wants her to live with the horrors she has seen/endured FOR NOW and proceeds to brand her with Lloth's symbol, and leave her unconscious in the burned village surrounded by the dead . So for roleplaying aspect, she is terrified of other drow thinking they are coming after her, she is massively scarred from the torture (50% of her body is burned, massive scars on face and torso, and they also blinded her left eye) so has to deal not only with being a drow on the surface, but also disfigured with a fear of fire, then talked to DM on side so other players don't know this part .... but the brand was not only a reminder, but anytime she is near someone who channels Lloth's divine powers (paladin, Cleric, handmaiden, etc..) the brand starts burning her and she gets penalties on AC, hit rolls and concentration due to the unbearable pain.
I would love for you guys to do a video about how long lived races and short lived races interact with each other. I have always found it incredibly troublesome to use. Most of the excuses (long lived, slow to decide on things) seem flimsy to me. If I was to try and write a campaign world with elves and humans there would be a 9:1 ratio among the level 20 characters favoring the elves. And that power disparity at the top would inform all of the political structures.
I'm currently doing a high elf wizard who was a tuter at a human noble court he got the job because he offered to be payed for just a wizard tuter while also teaching swordsmanship he's doing it to study humans he finds their ambition and greed interesting however loves their drive And inability to give up so he's writing a novel Or collection of short stories
Currently playing a wood elf who has been literally branded as a thief, so fled her home in shame, and hooked up with a dwarf Battle Rager and acted as a scout for a dwarf military unit... she was eventually brought back by the party aasimar paladin who was a childhood friend of her and her betrothed, and is annoyed that he lost out on the chance to wear his shiniest armour as best man
Elves need a major reimagining. No matter where you look, elves are always represented in the same way. Essentially, they are forest spirits interpreted through the lens of human values. To break the cliche, I would suggest focusing more on their fey nature rather than their super-human qualities.
This is the first time that i notice how much he says "yo"... like 20 times a sentence. :D Funny. :) Good video!
"y'know" not "yo" . . . it may kinda sound like he says that but it isn't what he means
Elron is actually a half Elf.
I love the idea of the elven trance, but sadly none of my gm's allow my elven characters to utilize it how it's written. My elves were always out cold for those 4 hours. I played an Woodelf monk wich ran with a mercenary troop for around 200 odd years since he was born into it. And was very cynical of the World. With the mobility feat. Math monk anyone?
Wood Elf - Hippie Elf. High Elf - Dickish Elf. Drow Elf - Evil Elf. Drizzt - awesome Elf. The RP challenge of an Elf is trying to get passed those basic stereotypes. I tend to rely a lot more on the background when trying to RP an Elf than I would with any of the other races. It's really that background and backstory that's going to differentiate them.
Gregory Floriolli well (at least in the Forgotten Realms) Moon Elves are not as arrogant as Sun Elves
Gregory Floriolli am I the only person that remembers the Grey elves?
You'd think a hippie elf would also be a high elf, if you know what I mean...
@Lance Olsen lol
I love that most of your thumbnails are Magic the gathering cards
In the homebrew i'm making elves actually do need to sleep on occasion. The ability to go into a trance and resist sleep abilities was something taught to them from the fey world as well as a trick some dragons taught them a long time before current history. There still nature loving in my game but i'm trying to bring them a bit more to the origional celtic and germanic elves who would viciously tear people appart if they mistreated nature
Let me start by saying this.
Dave. Wow. I didn't know you were so deep. "Envious of the ability to dream." That, sir, is gold.
Elven behaviours that I have been exposed to in RP terms, especially from my 2E days, seemed to centre around racial and cultural purity. Whereas other races were "flawed" in some way that prohibited them from longer lifespans and a vast array of racial abilities, the elves seemed to always look down their alabaster noses at the rest of us.
In my current 5E campaign, our Elven Ranger has been taken in a completely different direction. He's about as country bumpkin as you can imagine. It's very refreshing.
Something I see in Elven player-characters is the ever present "blase" outlook on the behaviours of others. They always come off as unsurprised and unimpressed. Which I have always found as odd. If you've lived for a century...then why are you still "unimpressed" yet still level 1? It always comes off as teenage angsty "you don't know, man. It's been done."
Yeah. By younger races. Last Tuesday. You weren't there. Apparently you were at Poetry Reading # 43571 of 75000.
I can still remember when I played the only Half-Orc in a party of Elves. One High Elf looked at my character and said "Orcs are a problem cured with a little patience and some well-placed arrows."
My Half-Orcs response.."There aren't enough trees to make enough arrows. We'll breed you out."
What I would like to see is perhaps an expansion on what the Elves have been doing with their long lives if not wandering the world. In Tholl, they had the highest technological advancements. They had black powder and air-ships while others fought with bows and used oars. They advanced their sciences for the sake of knowledge, not expansion, and protected their secrets.
Half-orcs are the off-spring of things meant to be killed and rubbed out.
I do feel like the blase attitude isn't fitting either considering one of the main reasons most elves become adventurers is to see new things and experience the world. So the whole point of an elf character becoming an adventurer is to be surprised by new things. This is coming from a guy who almost always plays as an elf, while some elves may have a muted reaction to most things that shouldn't make them completely emotionless, playing them like that is just kinda boring and doing a disservice to the character and potential growth. Also I won't even talk about the racial purity thing, because that's a hornet's nest I don't want to kick, but it is also a weird thing to set as the basis of your character, even for an elf who are, while usually sometimes haughty, never really reach the "eradicate non-elves" levels, considering the Player's Handbook say they're usually Chaotic Good, which should mean most elves are usually kind and value freedom.
indeed they might be, as Dave mentioned, "envious of the ability to dream", however, having to sleep and falling for some spells might be seen as a flaw. Also, the same way Dwarves's immunity to poison opens even more cultural doors for cuisine for instance, some Elven societies might fous exactly on sleep & charm spells because it wouldn't damage their kind
I don't know if you guys are familiar with High Rollers, but at one point, an elf was turned into a werewolf and put to sleep. That could be a really cool conversation to have withthe NPC later-- I wonder what it would feel like to sleep for the first time at 150 years old... Then, the GM can even insert a wild plot hook via the Dream spell, if he were to want to.
i made a wood elf tribe and they try to be helpful to people who pass through but they are extremely curious about others as they are seculded in their forest realm. there's a lot more but i dont want to put it out in the open.
everytime he sais you know I just hear Yo hahahaha
You guys have the best thumbnail art, who does it?
I find it interesting that in the race videos put out by the various groups all say the elf is the hardest to play. I've played elves almost exclusively. They are my favorite race. They don't seem that alien to me.
as a player coming from the eldritch wizardry stapled supplement thru the 79 ad&d players handbook era.
i'd say if you played an elf (or a halfling, gnome or other carnival circus race), it says to me that deep inside you lack manly qualities.
for me it was all about the human magic-user (my main), human thief (first alt) and human cleric (second alt).
i would love to discuss in detail the intricacies of avoiding magical aging (abusing the wish spell) with the creative use of magic jar and simulacrums, not taking damage and ruining your silk clothing with gore or sweat from physical labor (or disrupting my casting ability by having to "take watch"), and avoiding death by using phase doors.
perhaps the fine art of dog peppers and coin shaving.
i wish our group from elementary school to mid 30's didn't break up.
a pox on children.
I never really cared for the elves. The only ones I really play in certain scenarios are drow, and even then I have to get sunglasses to cancel out the sunlight sensitivity which I think sucks ass. The reason most people play the elves is that because of the way they read it, the elves only take 4 hours for a long rest. which is really up to the dm.
clericofchaos1 wow
I suspect that Dwarf Fortress has changed many players view of the Elves.
Aereni High Elves don’t have martial training do they?
Man, I'd love to game with you guys.
What about sea elves?
Lol take a shot every time one of them says yo
Elves can sleep, they just don't need to. They trance instead and get rest that way. Some of them might even pity sleeping races, because they need to lay themselves unconscious for multiple hours per day.
"We elves aren't resistant against charm. Other races just are weak against it."
how many elf years equal to Human elves? that is something I been wanting to know.
In game elves live for 750 years and humans live 100 years
Crimson Wizard thanks
Matt 5
mythologically speaking the Dark Elf and the Dwarf are the same thing
Uncanny Owlbear svartalfr or dokkalfr
There are a couple of issues i have with the race. The first one being: "I was there Gandalf. 9000 years ago." Now this is D&D and not LotR, but 700+ is quite mindblowingly unimaginable. The way they are depicted they are considered somewhat immature at the age of 100, which is where you normaly start as a youthful adventurer. This is quite problematic but can be interesting in the hands of advanced, not to say mature, players.
The ability scores are borked. So you have no negative values, okay. An elf has no strenght bonus. Depending on the subrace you are getting intelligence, wisdom and charisma. When you look up half-orc you get an ability bonus to strength by two. A human gets +1 across the board (including strenght). So an elf is strength-wise on par with halfling and gnome. That is a hidden penalty. They don't like penalties these days, except... they still use them. Fine. Unfortunately that ties into a bigger problem: If you give penalties and bonuses you have to set a certain kind of standart. Usually that standart is human, because we know what that is, because we are humans. If you use a nonexistant standart you have just disentangled your entire system from common ground. That is annoying becaus it shows a certain lack of understanding what this system is for in the first place. Who is the standart? Who wrote this? A gnome?
Furthermore... Drow and only Drow get +charisma. They talk about concepts like ethernal beauty and give a charisma bonus (and elves deserve one, generally) to the Drow! By whose standart for aesthetics? H.R. Giger? (i like Giger, btw, but it is indiscutably a very savage and openly obscene way of aesthetics). I see why this makes sense mechanics wise (priests&sorcerers), but common sense, if not to say: roleplay-wise sense? And for what? Just because someone wanted to hide that -1 that is still in the system regardless and splice in a few subrace differences. Convoluted.
There are things i would have handled differently. Its nothing gamebreaking, of course, i am extremely picky.
Nemesis the warlock keep in mind charisma isnt a physical stat, its your force of will and aptitude to influence others. so for drow it makes sense as they are so set in their ways and skilled at manipulation
Agreed, but still it doesn't only make sense for Drow. It makes sense for all elves. And of all the elves the Drow are the most questionable choice. Drow raiding partys are dreaded and for a good reason. People do not think "oh, cool, the Drow come to visit us" - absolutely not. They may be adept at manipulating their own kind, but most people will opt to keep their distance. It will take a whole lot of skilled manipulation to overcome that, i tell you. Being a Drow makes things a lot harder NOT easier. There is lots of this stuff in there, like for example...sorcerers and their draconic heritage. Now, that in itself is not a problem, but when you add races with, lets say infernal bloodlines that gets a bit bity. You do either or, not both. I don't want to condem D&D here, but there are edges which clearly could have been avoided with a little more insight. I got material for beta playtests but ignored it aside of glancing through it quickly. Be assured, in the next edition, if they send me material again i will look into this and write to them one or two words about consistency.
A bit bity? What does that mean really? I'm just curious. And lets say, A Tiefling does become a Sorcerer. So their class adds draconic heritage, a lot of people have very mixed family tree's. It just adds flavor and room for the DM to use in game, if someone is creative and adaptive. Maybe? I sure know I can run with just about anything and make it fun and exciting.
Maybe you also had a Drow in your family tree so add weapons profession and Drow spells to your infernal heritage cantrips and dragon breath and wings (and tail&horns because you are a Tiefling) from draconic heritage.
If you are a Tiefling sorcerer you have infernal heritage, of course. Not draconic. If you have both... well, then it gets complicated.
There is a problem in my opinion. No, i wouldn't touch hybridized hybrids with a ten foot pole. Yet, that is how it is in the core rules.
You can play, of course, whatever you like, but its pretty much cobbled together. You are using multiple types of flavour. Throw it into the Gumbo, you know.
can you trance in heavy armor?
I think its a CON save to get full rest with armor, same as with not actually sleeping/trancing...
You need the endurance feat to have a long rest in any armour without risk of exhaustion.
My d and d race is elf
The Elven trance thing is something I've never been able to find much information on. Where did it come from? What effect does it have on their way of life? Why do only Elves have this? I guess like Dwarves and their beards, it's just something that's kept open-ended so everyone can form their own interpretation of it.
In the game Within the Ring of Fire, which you've mentioned previously, this idiosyncrasy of the Elven race is used almost as a Lucid Dream, essentially like a very vivid cutscene in a videogame. It's also not exclusive to Elves either, just about anything Fey-Related (Such as Satyrs or Ogres) experience it, at least in the few sessions of the game that I've been able to watch.
Personally, I might use it along the lines of Dissociation, kinda like what Dave alluded to. High Elves might see an important moment in the life an ancestor from their perspective, while Wood Elves would use the feeling of animal fur or the smells of the forest to maintain their place in reality. The 5E PHB doesn't necessarily say whether Elves can use perception during Trance, so they might experience interlopers as something that simply doesn't seem right in their dream, which might snap them back to consciousness.
Of course, even in modern times, the nature of dreams are a difficult thing to grasp, so if you're of the idea that dreams in our world are just fragments of memory that our brain plays while it defrags overnight, Elves might hate not being able to dream like other mortals, and get stuck with all of these nonsensical fragments floating around in their heads.
"...(Such as Satyrs or Ogres) experience it..." Saytrs, maybe, Orgres, um what? When did giants become Fey?
On a more constructive note, however, the answer as to weather or not they can use perception while Trancing, the answer is no, they use their passive perception, where as races without Trance Have to do Perception checks with Disadvantage.
Mizati
The setting where Within the Ring of Fire takes place in, named K'vega Thale, is entirely different from ones where D&D games take place in. One example is Ogres being considered Fey, or as they're often called in the game, Fairies. But thank you for the clarification.
imlaughing2death
Gotcha, my bad, I didn't realize you were talking about an entirely different tabletop.
Glad I could still be of assistance through =3
At last an actual explanation as to what to do during trance!
In AD&D the elves could go into the "Reverie". A meditation state where they reflected on their past memories. It is like an innate mental training that allowed them to retain their memories and sense of identity over their crazy long lifespans. It was because of this reverie that they have their resistance to charm (strong sense of identity), but came with the downside that they couldn't necessarily control what they remembered. So, for instance, they would try to avoid doing shameful or cruel deeds else they would spend the rest of their lives remembering those events. They could still sleep, and on rare occassions dream, and on even rarer occassions their dreams were prophetic.
Though their eyes were open they were pretty much spaced out in their reverie. In AD&D I wouldn't have ruled that they could perceive any more than a sleeping human. However 5e states they remain semiconscious so I would let them go with passive perception with perhaps a disadvantage..
See, I disliked a lot of what was there, so I made my world's elves into gypsy-style caravans.
I almost exclusively play elves, half elves, gnomes, and fae (especially satyrs). I get them. It's humans, and dwarves that I think are difficult to understand. And most players get wrong. Also the dwarf vs elf player hate is stupid.
I personally like to ignore tthe at least 100 years old thing, It is so hard to know what that is like, so I make the elves n my game reach adulthood only a year or two behind humans, just thy live for a long time and are still treated as less experienced by the older elves. I don't want to have to come up with 00 years of backstory for one character
I've done more or less that: my elf rogue is 16 years old. She was washed up from the sea in a human port city, so that's all she knows. She's 16, she's a woman grown, although she has all the racial bonuses of an elf for some silly reason - she can speak Elvish, despite never having been taught it, or even met another elf; she can use all sorts of bows and swords, despite being a street rat who used a knife at best.
Mine usually start in there thirties, may be fifties.
Seems reasonable, and mine is reasonable for her backstory.
Mine are also mostly younger in age since I can't really put myself in their shoes otherwise. Another thing to keep in mind though is, as you get older, you have experienced more, and likely forgotten just as much, as you tend to only remember those few important impactful milestones. Unless you have eidetic memory or write everything down.
If you don't want to write that much backstory then the life of an elf might not be for you. Hence the difficulty of role play.
all the games I have run people want to play humans...
I made an elf... who was raised by humans. Xe curses xys longevity because 80% of the friendships xe forms are with races that live much shorter lives. Xe was orphaned at around 15 when xys entire family died when the forest they lived in got involved in a human war and got burned to the ground and was adopted by one of the soldiers that was involved in the battle before getting sent to his family in a poor urban community and getting involved in a thieves' guild. This and xe's not even 30 by then.
"xe", "xys" etc... what language is this?
"Xe". What the fuck?
This is the first time I'm reading this comment but 4 days ago I finished my character's sheet with this EXACT SAME BACKSTORY. Like, just a little, slightly, different. It was a vulcano that destroid her ancestral home and it was a rogue that found and took her in. She suffered immensely when he passed from old age and that's why she decided to avoid forming connections. She grew up inside the Thieves Guild, not a single elf, so she's ignorant in many crafts and actually acts more like a human. Girl, we share the same braincells....
I don't enjoy RPG games like Pathfinder and D&D as much as actually roleplaying, due to it being fighting and goal based.
I don't even need to watch this, I know exactly how all people play elves: Sniff your own farts, hate everyone in a passive aggressive way, and pretend you are superior but fail every roll. DONE! :P