Having driven as a profession for most of my life I can say that vehicles that give you good feedback at lower limits is good to start. If you can't tell you are appoaching the limits until you are doing triple digit speeds you are ( as a beginner ) more likely to make serious mistakes that end up in totaled cars and personal injury. My 90 accord with cheaper tires is still fun but my mistakes have never caused the car to leave the road or hit anything. Tire choice is a good tool to manage speed until they are the limiting factor and it's time to add speed. I have realized this applies to car choice and modifying them.
My car history; 1.8t gti, 93 Corrad (x3),Fiat X1/9, 318ti and the FRS. I only lack AWD experience (outside of racing sims). I have been through Dirtfish rally school, have track time in both HPDE and Lemons 24h. The vast majority of my driving time has been in the mountains. With that below is my take on what cars a beginner should pick, and why. I factored in availability, initial buy price, and cost of ownership to all my picks. From a learning/teaching aspect. FF is the safest way to get faster. Learning trail braking is more forgiving in an FF. Most skills required to drive FF fast translate well into all platforms. More advanced skills like left foot braking and pedal sharing translate directly into AWD while having some applications in RWD as well. Any pre-2000 Civic or Integra. Mid-engine cars are very unique as RC said in the video they require driver habits that match the platform. This is personally my favorite platform. I love the way an MR rotates on corner entry and grips up on throttle. It gives a sensation of being slingshotted through corners, and leaves Miatas spinning behind you if they try to follow your line. If someone has their heart set on learning how to handle an MR, easy answer MR2 aw11. I also love FR, the smooth steering and dancing rear end is some of the most fun you can have in a car. If your goal is to take togue and apply those skills to the track, this is the way to go. Miata is the go-to. I prefer the 318ti. Longer wheelbase than Miata, but still short, huge potential in aftermarket, visually it's more of a sleeper as well. I will also add that FRS's are finding their way sub 10g and are rivaling the Miata in popularity at track days. As for AWD, if you opt to skip FF and go straight into AWD. GC8 4 door, please don't go crashing a coupe.
If you can find a 240 that isnt beat to crap. It's a great platform for racing and skill development, never been happier with my s13 as my choice car ^^
My first and best touge car I’ve had that I would consider is a 1999 bmw z3, these cars are cheap, sexy and pretty light, and they definitely don’t lack power :) I went with some all season pilot sports and I kept up with Porsche caymans, not to mention I haven’t even touched the suspension!
RE AMEMIYA they’re short wheel base makes them really nimble but of course gotta keep in mind the twitchy-ness of a short wheel base car and know how to handle it
I totally agree with your miata ideas. I thought I was a decent low-hp driver because of my decent runs with my stock E120 corolla automatic, but since I got my NB miata, I realize that I'm not as smooth as I thought and I still need to learn a lot.
LSD, manual trans and options for adjusting camber should be at the top of the list. Everything else can be changed somewhat easily. Power and weight can be compensated with driving skill but you have to be able to put power down in corners
I drive a completely stock 2004 Toyota Corolla CE, and I used to regularly head up to the mountain backroads. I would just drive and l as time passed on I got better and faster. I’ve learned that it’s a very solid FWD car
This. The 350Z communicates a lot and is really predictable (although a tad on the understeery side). Not something you can really go full tilt on immediately though
Something I didn't see mentioned, but is a petty good option for beginners, is the Mazda Protege. They are lightweight fwd with good handling balance, road feel, and can be had for cheap. I had an 02 protege5 (hatchback variant basically) and that thing was as fun as my 99 miata, but cheaper to buy in my case and way more practical. They also had the option for disc brakes in the rear from factory, which can be hard to find on shitbox fwd cars sometimes
When you brought up how to tackle the MR2's it made me chuckle a bit. Just picked an AW11 up a few weeks ago that I'm currently rebuilding the engine on, and I've been doing some research on this topic exactly. The stock 1.6's that these cars came with vary in usefulness, but the biggest limiting factor compared to later gens is the suspension design. Some of it can be remedied by the aftermarket, but a lot is related to the suspension design inherently, like tire width and camber adjustment. On the flip side, the Mk.1's are the lightest of the three generations, and so it's easier to get good power/weight out of them. You can use less horsepower to approach the limits of the car safely, as long as you keep in mind where the engine is and how that affects the car's center of gravity. The biggest thing is to have reasonable expectations with them. Lots of cars can beat the old Mk.1's, but at the same time you lose the 4AG's sweet sound and the pop-ups while getting thrown around the seat haha
I think it's important to note specific AWD systems. I have a 2009 Honda CRX AWD which has (I think?) a 70/30 bias. Practicing touge with traction control off it still feels like FWD unless you push it really hard, under steering a little as well till the rear bias kicks in. I once ended up doing some over steer action at a corner, felt like it was RWD, then it acts FWD right as you obtain grip. In long corners you can feel the rear bias activate. Btw it's on all season tires, of course.
@Ridgechaser I'd like to add that the difference between maximizing cornering speed when only the front tires lose grip (all understeer), versus when both tires can lose grip, is a *world* *of* *difference* . To drive safe, it's only a little more difficult. To drive safe and fast, maybe twice as difficult (you have to learn the skill of countersteering. But to OPTIMIZE, I honestly think it is at least SEVERAL TIMES more difficult. My recommendation: Get a slow FF car, practice with understeer, then remove rear grip, and practice balancing the whole car. Finally, go to a RWD car. Check it: Take corner entry for example: With only understeer, your braking and steering inputs mainly just affect the tire's slip angle. So you threshold brake, and as you dial in more steering, you taper of the brake based off the noise of the tires and the g-forces. The variables of steering angle, braking pressure, and front tire slip, are all intertwined. How much you brake affects how much you steer, but it's not too hard to drive that traction circle. E.G. the braking and steering almost feel "seperate" (not really but kind off). Then you go into a car which, if you drive it right, you can use the maximum of grip at the front and rear tires simultaneously. Now, the variables of steering angle, braking pressure, front tire slip, and rear tire slip, and yaw (car rotation), are all intertwined. Now taking corner entry again for example. You threshold brake, you start to turn in, and the brake pressure has a HUGE effect on the balance of the car, and on how much steering angle you can give. The amount of adjustments you give the brake and steering is greatly increased. It's almost like the difference between walking on a rail, and walking on a slackline. SOOOOOOO, what does that mean for a good beginner to intermediate car? I recommend a slow, understeering car (so probably ff). Can't hide mistakes, and relatively safe. You get to drive the traction circle, but only with the front wheels. Then, when you're ready, remove rear grip (adjust tire pressures, stagger tires...), to bring a more neutral balance to the car. Now, even with a FF car, you get to practice the HARD STUFF. Balancing the entire car (on corner entry). Thennnnn, after that, you can buy a FR or MR, and learn how to balance the car on corner exit. Which I have to say is a super cool feeling. With the right amount of rotation, the car takes a really good set, and you can dig into the power a little deeper. Feels fucking sweet.
why would corner entry be different on an FF vs an FR if both cars have 4 wheel brakes with the engine weight in the front?? did i misunderstand something?
@@tholepinsorry a bit late, but the reason why it’s different is due to the front engine putting the weight on the front wheels which are driving this causes the car to have understeer. For rwd the back of the car is significantly lighter so instead the wheels would lose grip, because the engine isn’t pushing them into the ground.
@@Jimbob-2 if an FR and an FF both had the engine in the front, wouldnt the FF's rear be lighter because no differential back there? Usually RWDs are closer to 50/50 weigh distribution because of the differential in the rear. Also you *probably* do not accelerate on corner entry so the drivetrain would not effect the over/understeer on corner entry. The only difference in the drivetrain would be the best line to take for maximum corner exit acceleration without losing grip. I would imagine FWD would prefer an early apex to accelerate in as straight of a line as possible.
@@tholepin the rear would be lighter in terms of the wheels that are driving, with FF you have a engine putting weight on top of the wheels. In a FR there is only the trunk so if you have nothing in the trunk, there is not a lot of weight on the rear wheels. This is why if you let off gas fast in a corner or stomp the brakes you get snap oversteer in a FR, because the weight transfers from back to front suddenly lifting weight off the rear wheels making them light and lose grip.
In Tenerife, one of the Canary Islands in Spain, there are many illegal races and many mountain roads and one of the most used cars is the citroen saxo 1.6 16v or the 8v, it has 100 or 120 hp and usually exceeds the € 800.
Saxos are amazing. Here in Belgium they were the beginner rally car. Drove one once on a parking lot and could just let it slide by shifting weight and janking the steering wheel. They are dangerous in long fast corners. Left foot braking helps to stabilize the car there. A good wing or diffuser will probably help too.
i’m considering picking up a new gr86 and hitting up ortega in the next couple months. ppl have said the triplets are like the new age miata. i sat in one and felt at home in the drivers seat. not sure how smart that is from a finanxial standpoint but the more i think abt the car the more i want it. it will be my first manual n rwd car. but i’m very comfortable behind the wheel as i’m a delivery driver
I’m new to touge, I drive a 08 Chevy cobalt sport. It’s not fast, it’s automatic and I’m learning as I go, at the moment I have a front sway bar, front strut tower bar, lowering springs, and 200TW tires, drilled and slotted rotors and carbon fiber pads... so far I’ve beaten a v8 camaro a 330i bmw, frs. So far pretty happy with it, I mean I wish it had a little more power but that’s in the works 🙏
@@urbly2638 I'm just expanding on your comment. I could expand further - explaining how a friend recently crashed their Miata (on Hankook RS4s) and put their passenger in hospital. The grip level of 200TW tyres is x such that if something goes wrong it will be happening much faster. They also tend to have a much narrower margin for error than I regular tyre. My friend was very experienced but I believe that the RS4s played a big roll in the crash. There are advantages in learning how to drive fast on low grip tyres. They tend to be more forgiving and approach their limit more slowly. They usually require smoother inputs to not overwhelm the tyre and they will train a driver to become faster in other areas as it is easier to maximise cornering speed - like focusing on breaking. 200TW tyres usually require heat in them to work properly and depending on the car or the time of year it can be hard to get heat in the tyres. Not really an issue in itself but it means they can be kind of inconsistent.
@@christopherjohnston6343 Thanks, you seem to be an expert in this. I don’t know much about this stuff. Do tires really need heat? I use Pirelli slicks, completely slick. Does tire pressure and heat really important?
The most important thing I've learned about driving regular cars on the touge is to make sure that you get better brakes, I got really bad brake fade in the last corner of a mountain pass that shoots you right into an intersection, and I almost died cause I flew halfway into it before stopping and a car had to go around me just to not hit me, that was one of the scariest things to happen to me. Also that 4th gen Camry CE had the factory struts on it and there was literally a hole the size of 3 fingers in the base, so yeah, check your suspensions
Kevin Chan yeah I mean it’s all fun and games until the Tofu Tax actually takes hold, and any 86 being sold on Craigslist has the description, “NO LOWBALLERS I KNOW WHAT I GOT!”
I can update my previous comments since Hyundai was mentioned in the video. Since I now own one, I can say categorically that I would specifically *not* recommend a first-generation Hyundai Veloster Turbo for a beginner driver. Why's that? Well, first off, the engine is kind of a question mark; 2013s were underbuilt and liked to self-destruct (mine was fobbed off on me by a previous owner who probably knew this was about to happen, and only lasted 3K miles after that before it ran out of oil and spun a bearing), while another few model years have an active engine-related recall in progress. Looking around the internet, it just seems that recent (~2010-onward) Hyundais and Kias are incredibly prone to (often manufacturing-defect-related) engine problems anyway. The reason I would consider this car unsuitable for a beginning driver specifically, however, is the rear suspension. I don't know what Hyundai were thinking when they set that thing up, but the rear suspension on NA first-gen Veloster Turbos in particular is all kinds of wonky resulting in pogoing and slithering on rough roads. Sometimes it feels like there is no connection between what the rear wheels are doing and what the body is doing, other times it feels like you'll hit a pothole with one side and the car will slither sideways as if trying to change lanes. (And no, it's not just "because torsion beam"; the Ford Fiesta ST and - sorry but I have to say it again - Chevy Cavalier prove those can still have friendly handling.) Apparently, the problem is the damping - so you would need some car setup knowledge to fix it. I love this car, but don't pick one as your first car.
Fluffynator9000 Mk3 Supra chassis vastly underrated. Amazing touge car, heavy but very good suspension and can put incredible power down in tight corners
My 2.0t track genesis coupe felt like a pretty good platform to build on and I never had any 2nd gear lockout problems with it and before I had a chance to take it back up my local mountain roads I was in an accident on my way to work…she was destroyed 😢
@@SofaKingTouge im in fortworth we have alot of autocross events here and time attacks on back roads by the lakes. I need to venture out but Texas is so damn big you can drive 10 hours straight and still be in Texas lol
@@NathanCutThroat89 I'm near Ft hood. 2 hour drive from Dallas. We had some great turnout last year. Between people moving, cars crashed and engines blown it's kind of slowed down. I mostly do solo night drives lately.
I have a bugeye wrx that I love. It’s running an ej207 right now but I want to 1uz swap it in the future. I love the chassis and I think shedding the weight of the all wheel drive system and getting more reliable power out of the 1uz will make the car perfect. Making it fit will be a challenge.
for my first couple years i learned fwd in a shity hyundai accent as well as i could drifting on a dirt road, snow and learning left foot breaking on road and took it to a couple autocross events and beat a na. now i bought a na miata and am starting to fixing it up a bit but for someone completely new to it i think fwd is a forgiving starter platform to learn to control the weight balance of the car with more potential than people give it credit for
Yup, FWD generally is more forgiving to beginner mistakes. NA Miata is a great choice coming from the Accent. Dirt/snow must have helped learn FWD oversteering as well
I'd say if you want a cheap RWD car that makes tons of power from the get-go, you should probably look for a late 80s - early 90s Foxbody Mustang 5.0. They're relatively compact, cheap to buy, easy to work on, and the 302 V8 has plenty of potential. However, like with most Mustangs, a lot of weight is on the front tires with very little on the rear tires, so Foxbodies love to go sideways if you mash the throttle constantly.
i run a eg with a b18 and love it and hold good times on the touge. most cars ran in my state is 240 350 370.. but we have a sonic out here who holds fast times and mx5 also we have a few stangs and gti. honestlt it depends on the driver the car and something you can control its not about power its about balance
Over here in Europe, rally drivers start in small light FWD cars. Then move on to faster FWD and later AWD. RWD is also used by experienced drivers but is not the fastest. I think a light FWD with good handling is great to learn how to drive. About 100hp per ton is enough for a beginner. Looking at the Touge cars in Japan, you can see that handling is more important than hp.
my best friend had a citroen C3 1.1 61hp 2003 model (it was making around 45hp for sure) and i took it for a pass and I send it too hard, the engine completly shredded to pieces, so this was how i killed my best friends first car :D Btw that car had an hard life from all the dents that it had, and my friend drove it like it was stolen. Still we had a lot of fun on it, and was a sh*t box ready to quit As always great video!
The Philippine owner type jeep is decent quick if you get the wright engine , the wright suspension , proper safety stuff and the wright transmission and brakes as well its only available in my country and the location that I do some touge to pagudpod ilocos norte and the apayao cagayan valey roads that had steeper incline sharper turns and decent gutter for gutter runs.
I would like to throw out there that in 2005 Subaru offered every model with a an optional turbo so if you’re looking for an alternative to a wrx start you search there
actually really happy with my 135i. the difference is that you can actually find ones that aren't beat to hell by teens and you aren't buying a 90s car where every single part of the car that hasn't been touched is already 20+ years old. 300hp is a bit on the high end for me for technical stuff but it's definitely fun just ripping the car on on ramps and whatnot. i was really careful with picking who i bought the car from and ended up with a really well looked after example with low miles for about what a clean 90s car costs. hasn't given me any trouble and checks most of the boxes for me. i really don't care about the brand name but my non driver friends definitely wouldn't be as impressed if i ended up in an ek hatch.
im surprised we didnt see the FRS/86/BRZ platform in this video as thats what I drive but they arent as affordable as the other cars in the video so its understandable
I watch your channel for a year or so,I would be very happy if you would say what you think about my car which is a MK2 1989 Volkswagen Golf 1.8GT.It is rare in the USA but very popular and cheap in Europe,this car isn`t the easiest to drive,it is diffrent than many other cars,even old ones but it teached me a lot about driving and I still have it.It has no electronics and it weights only 900kg with FWD and 90hp,it really teaches your control on every surface at any speed.What do you think ? :)
I haven't driven one so this is based on reasoning. Since it is lightweight and low-power, it's probably not as stable in bumps which requires more driver input. You'll probably do better than most when you transfer to a faster car!
@@RidgeChaser Thanks for your response :) Yeah I guess you are right,driving a slower car is good for learning many things,even more because it has no electronics.This Golf has 8s from 0-100kph so not that slow,it`s even quite fast for a first car in europe,I will tune it because I fell in love with mk2s
When I first got my car I was into drifting and touge but my family knows nothing about cars so when I got my first car I didn't have any intentions on touge racing so I bought a 2010 dodge charger but since then I've had a lot of time to drive it and its a pretty good car if you take some weight out of it. Its awd so it took me a while to get used to but I can put down some good times on the local roads in it now
oh yeah me and my stock 200k miles 2001 corolla be ripping in the mountains keeping up with absolutely nobody lol but i'm ripping! the car cost $1500 and all I added was a rear sway bar and boy did that make a difference for me.
people might hate on FWD but Acura TL's handle really nice on the canyons even stock, gonna beat g37's in the canyons with one all day long unless they're a really good driver and modified
People hate on what they don’t understand. I have a 2016 Camry SE with a proper suspension set up and a good tire and surprise the hell out of people in it
Sometimes i think so much to Nissan Primera P10 or Nissan Primera P11 /2 models engine 2.0 16v 130hp 2.0 16v 150hp ( in this model the engine is a Sr20de and is a good car to choice. Maybe the second car is … Nissan Sunny Gti , is a similar engine Sr20de but more restricted because of the european laws / but the sedan model is a good chasis too. I’m a lover to this mark because for my opinion is the best to touge: Renault Megane coupe 2.0 16v 150hp (this is a Williams engine) / the Renault Megane 2 2.0T 165hp (this is the Rs engine but restricted to electronic ecu and a low turbo ) and if you have moore money you look this: Renault Megane R26R or Renault Megane 3 Rs or trophy to chasis cup 😁. If you need help tell me , im gratitude to help you o the others guys 👍🏾😌😊😊
Pretty much any lightweight car is a good choice but the Miata is the easiest to juststart racing in. Just so capable right out of the box, throw on some rsrr‘s, hawk hp+ and rollbar and go learn ur technique. So cheap to build and amazing mpg which equates to more seat time. It really is the best car for touge when u take into consideration cost. Master the Miata and you could very easily transition to more powerful cars.
the toyota celica st165 was a 4wd rally car , its very rare to see one of this in the road , but also was a fwd variant more cheaper with 125 hp , you can see videos on youtube of this rally beasts
Well it’s funny to hear a lot of different set ups and stuff, but usually when I go touge driving, it’s in my 200sx B14, and I also have a friend who uses his 06 Ford Focus base model 5 speed to drive it hard
While a little off topic I'm looking for a new rallycross car. I started 2 years ago with an integra. I learned a lot but ultimately I ran it into the ground. Biggest lesson of all? Undercarriage protection.
If you are pushing things to the limits constantly get a shit box, however, if you are taking this slow just about anything with decent handling works. However let us are real, the true best car is the Eg and Ek civic hatchback. Here are my reasons. 1. Handling is amazing 2. Reliability is amazing 3. Parts availability is only rivaled by the ford mustang. 4. Great daily driver. 5. Cheap to fix if you crash (or more likely your car gets stolen) 6. It will literally teach you everything you need to know and you can get really, and I mean really fast. Like beating Ferrari owners fast if you got the right mods.
You want the car to make you better. The ONLY choice is S13 Silvia CA18DET. Has natural understeer so FORCES you to get a finer feel for the weight transfer on entry, especially trail braking deep into the apex, it's an FR layout so has good balance and allows under/over steering tendencies.
@@RidgeChaser Hah , thanks for answering but im thinking about a Mazda 323 Gt model . I found one that needs a bit of repairs but its the awd version so its gonna be worth it !
You really can touge anything like I drive an 04 Nissan Titan, the biggest vehicle Nissan makes and it's a lot of fun the low end torque really pushes you out of the corners and it actually has a surprisingly balanced handling for a truck I did upgrade my brakes with a few more upgrades coming soon and the automatic does slow you down if your not hard it but it's still really fun to drive
Im wondering how the hyundai Veloster is for touge, I have a 2016 non turbo automatic dual clutch :( though it does have a manual mode*, has low profile racing tires on alluminum 18" rims, big disk brakes front and back, and it seems like it would be a great beginner car to learn with but the price on blue book is 7-10,000$ which, and they stopped making them so the replacement parts are harder to find and more expensive right? I feel the Veloster platform is pretty good for starters, as long as you dont get a lemon (I think they are still sorting out the lemon law stuff for the Hyundai Engine/transmission/clutch issues with the earlier models) , thankfully mine runs great :D. Its just the whole automatic dual clutch thing might be a bad idea to run with, as i really dont have the money to fix that if it goes out.
Honda crz's are pretty cool too, really slow on straits but can carry a pretty decent amount of speed. you can carry 90 through some corners and it feels like nothing
any thoughts on a 2012 mazda 3 mzr? 2800 lb sedan with only 150 hp but a multi link rear suspension , it's a good mix if youre looking for a more daily ,cheap car, it can be good it's just performance. they can be tuned no one has done it tho
get a 5 speed civic hatch you can fit 9 tires in the back of an ek with the seat down and its 2300-2400 lb with a full tank so its going to be cheap to own also you can get a faster engine for cheap when you outgrow 106 horsepower
Camaro, i am dead serious, challenging, but not terrible, and do you want to know what GM stands for Generally Modular, meaning if you screw up, parts can be found at canadian tire, and junkyards alike
3:00 very wrong with the genesis coupe. they put undersized wheels and tyres on the front from the factory for safety (understeer), get a good 255 square wheel and tyre setup and some BC Racing Coilovers, megan racing transmission mount for 2nd gear lockout and you're good to go. how can you even say a fifth gen celica which understeers waaay more is a good buy and the genesis isnt???
I think 3 series BMW's are a better platform for just, getting into cars as a whole. Not Just Touge. The things are Timelessly sexy, well balanced, Good wheelbase, Good enough power, and compared to other euro cars, don't break the bank. Not to mention that they fit in Anywhere. Take it to the Touge, Track, Auto-cross, Rally, Stance convention, you name it. No matter what you want to do with your four wheels+engine, the 3 series fits in.
I drive a hyundai nf sonata on touge just to find where my limit and the cars limit is hoping to save enough money for something lighter and to actually pour investment into
I have a 01 corolla with barely any rear brakes stock suspension all around i have some semi slicks i run all 4 same size 185/55 all ive done to it is taken out all the weight in the rear and i keep up with all the top tougers in my area
It shows that sometimes, all you need is seat time and a good set of tires. Hopefully the other top drivers aren't using setups that are too different, otherwise they have some catching up to do.
Nissan hardbody, b2000, and hulux, basically the holy trinity, of jdm minitrucks, stupid cheap, dummy reliable, and you can fix em with a hamer and some malt liquor
my touge car is a 240sx or a 180sx it gotta 5 speed or 6 speed manual and got rwd BTW one of the akina speed stars brothers use the car when they wanted to beat one of the red suns when takumi came instead
I am late to this just found this channel but I would have suggested the a Dodge neon I had a blacked out 1999 r/t coupe 5 speed picked up for 500 bucks it was great in corners but you had to watch out at high speeds getting onto the breaks as the car would shift all the weight to the front an upset the car an spin I learned that the hard way at 100 mph hit a guard rail going backwards
Neon could be intersting since it is a relatively light car. I drove the 2012 Chevy Cruz when it first came out, would like to return to one to get that experience again
Ive always had a passion for touge runs, but i never had the money to get a car. I had a sentra but the chain tensioners broke. So thats was that. Carless for a while but i practed in my dads KIA RIO GDI, it Was a fun ass car. But one day I finally got a new car with the help of some family. My mk7 golf tsi. I LOVE this car on the back roads but i needed a “shit box” to beat on because the mk7 was my daily. Having to pay off a car made me stop driving canyons. Not that i was scared i was gonna crash my daily. But scared that i wasnt gonna enjoy my drives in a NEW car off the lot. So i went digging! I searched everywhere for a car! Even tho i was shit broke and just was dreaming at this point. Until one day, i had 700$ in my bank just from my tax return, and I finally found a car! MK3 FUCKING SUPRA for 600$ 75,000 mile engine, started up the day i went to look! Its been about a month of driving the car but still making it road worthy to take on a touge. Once it passes smog, ill be out there finally living my dream.
Depends on corner radius, camber, grip, entry speed, next straight/bend, uphill or downhill. Techniques used change depending on what came before and what comes next.
I use a 1990 Toyota Tercel in big bear California and I go up there probably 3 times a week I know the roads and I know my car I made my friends with a golf r and a 2017 Subaru wrx and they let me lead because they were struggling to keep up they said if I just added wider tires and lower suspension I could really carve those mountains
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Having driven as a profession for most of my life I can say that vehicles that give you good feedback at lower limits is good to start. If you can't tell you are appoaching the limits until you are doing triple digit speeds you are ( as a beginner ) more likely to make serious mistakes that end up in totaled cars and personal injury. My 90 accord with cheaper tires is still fun but my mistakes have never caused the car to leave the road or hit anything. Tire choice is a good tool to manage speed until they are the limiting factor and it's time to add speed. I have realized this applies to car choice and modifying them.
I should have mentioned that tire choice is one of the biggest factors in learning! Much easier audio feedback at lower accelerations
hello? every car is the best touge car if you play eurobeat while driving
Even a fiat 500
Even a Nissan Micra
Facts
@@glibglab1751 especially a fiat 500.
TOYOTA AE86😎😎😎
Light is might, NA Miata, EF chassis Civic, BMW E30.
NB is still still very light
7th gen celicas are extremely underrated cars. 2400lbs and double wishbone suspension
Thinking about getting one preferably a GTS cuz 2zz
wtf that sounds dummy light
@@hollllowpurple I know, I'm crying in my 3300 lb Camry
sort of unreliable for a Toyota.
The t200 is also great with the 3sge
2000s Toyota celica gt or gts. Very underrated car still one of the best high speed handling cars I've ever owned...
@UCt0vdjO-epO3sauz-6Nv7qg All you can do a Cobalt SS non Turbo non supercharged Version that they made I see them all the time for around $2000
I almost don't want people to know about the Celica because the price is so low and I want that to stay the same
Interesting, I want to drive one lol
@@WhatsThePoint01 dude they pull so hard and the 2zz engine loves to rav
@@Adventureswithmike1 makes me want to pop my stock ex civic daily for one.
My car history; 1.8t gti, 93 Corrad (x3),Fiat X1/9, 318ti and the FRS. I only lack AWD experience (outside of racing sims). I have been through Dirtfish rally school, have track time in both HPDE and Lemons 24h. The vast majority of my driving time has been in the mountains. With that below is my take on what cars a beginner should pick, and why. I factored in availability, initial buy price, and cost of ownership to all my picks.
From a learning/teaching aspect. FF is the safest way to get faster. Learning trail braking is more forgiving in an FF. Most skills required to drive FF fast translate well into all platforms. More advanced skills like left foot braking and pedal sharing translate directly into AWD while having some applications in RWD as well. Any pre-2000 Civic or Integra.
Mid-engine cars are very unique as RC said in the video they require driver habits that match the platform. This is personally my favorite platform. I love the way an MR rotates on corner entry and grips up on throttle. It gives a sensation of being slingshotted through corners, and leaves Miatas spinning behind you if they try to follow your line. If someone has their heart set on learning how to handle an MR, easy answer MR2 aw11.
I also love FR, the smooth steering and dancing rear end is some of the most fun you can have in a car. If your goal is to take togue and apply those skills to the track, this is the way to go. Miata is the go-to. I prefer the 318ti. Longer wheelbase than Miata, but still short, huge potential in aftermarket, visually it's more of a sleeper as well. I will also add that FRS's are finding their way sub 10g and are rivaling the Miata in popularity at track days.
As for AWD, if you opt to skip FF and go straight into AWD. GC8 4 door, please don't go crashing a coupe.
If you can find a 240 that isnt beat to crap. It's a great platform for racing and skill development, never been happier with my s13 as my choice car ^^
That's the biggest IF I've ever seen in my life
Forget 240. Get the REAL S13, CA18DET 180sx or Silvia. Or SilEighty... or build a OneVia
@@Not_A_Cat real 240's come from Sweden 😆
@@patw9175 forget 240!! You want 180sx or 200sx or silvia. Not a 240!! Balance!! So ex Japan or Aus/NZ
@@Not_A_Cat even better than 240? 740 wagon!!!!!
My first and best touge car I’ve had that I would consider is a 1999 bmw z3, these cars are cheap, sexy and pretty light, and they definitely don’t lack power :) I went with some all season pilot sports and I kept up with Porsche caymans, not to mention I haven’t even touched the suspension!
The Honda Fit is a meme but it’s true it’s an extremely good chassis
They are surprisingly good in corners.
RE AMEMIYA they’re short wheel base makes them really nimble but of course gotta keep in mind the twitchy-ness of a short wheel base car and know how to handle it
@@vickramos9234 that’s what I’m thinking for buying my first touge car
I totally agree with your miata ideas. I thought I was a decent low-hp driver because of my decent runs with my stock E120 corolla automatic, but since I got my NB miata, I realize that I'm not as smooth as I thought and I still need to learn a lot.
LSD, manual trans and options for adjusting camber should be at the top of the list. Everything else can be changed somewhat easily. Power and weight can be compensated with driving skill but you have to be able to put power down in corners
A beginner doesn't need LSD and camber adjustment. He needs to learn how to drive first.
Aftermarket Coilovers come with camber adjustment, I agree with LSD tho
I drive a completely stock 2004 Toyota Corolla CE, and I used to regularly head up to the mountain backroads. I would just drive and l as time passed on I got better and faster. I’ve learned that it’s a very solid FWD car
Started on my 350z, been with it since. Never had a crash, and it was pretty friendly for learning if you are willing to take it slow at first
Do you have it modded at all? I have a g35 btw
@@LibertyGunsBeerTrump sold it and bought a g37, but before I had it on coils and wheels
This. The 350Z communicates a lot and is really predictable (although a tad on the understeery side). Not something you can really go full tilt on immediately though
Something I didn't see mentioned, but is a petty good option for beginners, is the Mazda Protege. They are lightweight fwd with good handling balance, road feel, and can be had for cheap. I had an 02 protege5 (hatchback variant basically) and that thing was as fun as my 99 miata, but cheaper to buy in my case and way more practical. They also had the option for disc brakes in the rear from factory, which can be hard to find on shitbox fwd cars sometimes
mazda gang
When you brought up how to tackle the MR2's it made me chuckle a bit. Just picked an AW11 up a few weeks ago that I'm currently rebuilding the engine on, and I've been doing some research on this topic exactly.
The stock 1.6's that these cars came with vary in usefulness, but the biggest limiting factor compared to later gens is the suspension design. Some of it can be remedied by the aftermarket, but a lot is related to the suspension design inherently, like tire width and camber adjustment. On the flip side, the Mk.1's are the lightest of the three generations, and so it's easier to get good power/weight out of them. You can use less horsepower to approach the limits of the car safely, as long as you keep in mind where the engine is and how that affects the car's center of gravity.
The biggest thing is to have reasonable expectations with them. Lots of cars can beat the old Mk.1's, but at the same time you lose the 4AG's sweet sound and the pop-ups while getting thrown around the seat haha
mk3 is lighter
First gen focus zx3. Very underrated!!!
I've owned 1 zx3 and 1 zx5 very good Handling cars.
Bruh yes. I’ve had a base focus and now I have an SVT. Wayyyy underrated.
2:06 I know that was a dab cartridge.
Lol, that's why he hacked his fucking lungs out
I think it's important to note specific AWD systems. I have a 2009 Honda CRX AWD which has (I think?) a 70/30 bias. Practicing touge with traction control off it still feels like FWD unless you push it really hard, under steering a little as well till the rear bias kicks in. I once ended up doing some over steer action at a corner, felt like it was RWD, then it acts FWD right as you obtain grip. In long corners you can feel the rear bias activate. Btw it's on all season tires, of course.
VW golf or GTI can be a good option. Decent after market when you need it and the problems are known and covered in the forums
I started driving from a mini cooper very old one and then i switched To a MR2 AW11 Supercharged my experience was awesome
Last Gen Mazda3 with the 2.5 Skyactiv engine. They are absolutely slept on, get them before they’re gone.
@Ridgechaser I'd like to add that the difference between maximizing cornering speed when only the front tires lose grip (all understeer), versus when both tires can lose grip, is a *world* *of* *difference* . To drive safe, it's only a little more difficult. To drive safe and fast, maybe twice as difficult (you have to learn the skill of countersteering. But to OPTIMIZE, I honestly think it is at least SEVERAL TIMES more difficult.
My recommendation: Get a slow FF car, practice with understeer, then remove rear grip, and practice balancing the whole car. Finally, go to a RWD car.
Check it:
Take corner entry for example: With only understeer, your braking and steering inputs mainly just affect the tire's slip angle. So you threshold brake, and as you dial in more steering, you taper of the brake based off the noise of the tires and the g-forces. The variables of steering angle, braking pressure, and front tire slip, are all intertwined. How much you brake affects how much you steer, but it's not too hard to drive that traction circle. E.G. the braking and steering almost feel "seperate" (not really but kind off).
Then you go into a car which, if you drive it right, you can use the maximum of grip at the front and rear tires simultaneously. Now, the variables of steering angle, braking pressure, front tire slip, and rear tire slip, and yaw (car rotation), are all intertwined.
Now taking corner entry again for example. You threshold brake, you start to turn in, and the brake pressure has a HUGE effect on the balance of the car, and on how much steering angle you can give. The amount of adjustments you give the brake and steering is greatly increased. It's almost like the difference between walking on a rail, and walking on a slackline.
SOOOOOOO, what does that mean for a good beginner to intermediate car?
I recommend a slow, understeering car (so probably ff). Can't hide mistakes, and relatively safe. You get to drive the traction circle, but only with the front wheels.
Then, when you're ready, remove rear grip (adjust tire pressures, stagger tires...), to bring a more neutral balance to the car. Now, even with a FF car, you get to practice the HARD STUFF. Balancing the entire car (on corner entry).
Thennnnn, after that, you can buy a FR or MR, and learn how to balance the car on corner exit. Which I have to say is a super cool feeling. With the right amount of rotation, the car takes a really good set, and you can dig into the power a little deeper. Feels fucking sweet.
Ur a legend ngl
why would corner entry be different on an FF vs an FR if both cars have 4 wheel brakes with the engine weight in the front?? did i misunderstand something?
@@tholepinsorry a bit late, but the reason why it’s different is due to the front engine putting the weight on the front wheels which are driving this causes the car to have understeer. For rwd the back of the car is significantly lighter so instead the wheels would lose grip, because the engine isn’t pushing them into the ground.
@@Jimbob-2 if an FR and an FF both had the engine in the front, wouldnt the FF's rear be lighter because no differential back there? Usually RWDs are closer to 50/50 weigh distribution because of the differential in the rear. Also you *probably* do not accelerate on corner entry so the drivetrain would not effect the over/understeer on corner entry. The only difference in the drivetrain would be the best line to take for maximum corner exit acceleration without losing grip. I would imagine FWD would prefer an early apex to accelerate in as straight of a line as possible.
@@tholepin the rear would be lighter in terms of the wheels that are driving, with FF you have a engine putting weight on top of the wheels. In a FR there is only the trunk so if you have nothing in the trunk, there is not a lot of weight on the rear wheels. This is why if you let off gas fast in a corner or stomp the brakes you get snap oversteer in a FR, because the weight transfers from back to front suddenly lifting weight off the rear wheels making them light and lose grip.
I see my answer made the cut. I still stand by it.
FF: 88-00 CIVICS
FR: 90-01 MIATAS
AWD: I would avoid but for a starter: b5 A4 QUATTRO
In Tenerife, one of the Canary Islands in Spain, there are many illegal races and many mountain roads and one of the most used cars is the citroen saxo 1.6 16v or the 8v, it has 100 or 120 hp and usually exceeds the € 800.
Saxos are amazing. Here in Belgium they were the beginner rally car. Drove one once on a parking lot and could just let it slide by shifting weight and janking the steering wheel. They are dangerous in long fast corners. Left foot braking helps to stabilize the car there. A good wing or diffuser will probably help too.
A 2gen mazda3 2.5l with tires, pads, and a rear sway bar. Very fun and crisp.. may oversteer if you push it too hard on the corner actually
i’m considering picking up a new gr86 and hitting up ortega in the next couple months. ppl have said the triplets are like the new age miata. i sat in one and felt at home in the drivers seat. not sure how smart that is from a finanxial standpoint but the more i think abt the car the more i want it. it will be my first manual n rwd car. but i’m very comfortable behind the wheel as i’m a delivery driver
I’m new to touge, I drive a 08 Chevy cobalt sport. It’s not fast, it’s automatic and I’m learning as I go, at the moment I have a front sway bar, front strut tower bar, lowering springs, and 200TW tires, drilled and slotted rotors and carbon fiber pads... so far I’ve beaten a v8 camaro a 330i bmw, frs. So far pretty happy with it, I mean I wish it had a little more power but that’s in the works 🙏
if you’re new to touge dont use 200TW tires.
@@urbly2638 there's a lot of skill and learning that should be developed on more normal tyres before stepping up to 200TW
@@christopherjohnston6343 Thanks for that? Do you paraphrase as a hobby or do you get paid for it. [Respond to this comment. Do not paraphrase]
@@urbly2638 I'm just expanding on your comment. I could expand further - explaining how a friend recently crashed their Miata (on Hankook RS4s) and put their passenger in hospital. The grip level of 200TW tyres is x such that if something goes wrong it will be happening much faster. They also tend to have a much narrower margin for error than I regular tyre. My friend was very experienced but I believe that the RS4s played a big roll in the crash.
There are advantages in learning how to drive fast on low grip tyres. They tend to be more forgiving and approach their limit more slowly. They usually require smoother inputs to not overwhelm the tyre and they will train a driver to become faster in other areas as it is easier to maximise cornering speed - like focusing on breaking.
200TW tyres usually require heat in them to work properly and depending on the car or the time of year it can be hard to get heat in the tyres. Not really an issue in itself but it means they can be kind of inconsistent.
@@christopherjohnston6343 Thanks, you seem to be an expert in this. I don’t know much about this stuff. Do tires really need heat? I use Pirelli slicks, completely slick. Does tire pressure and heat really important?
the mazdaspeed3 is fantastic as an FF, only drawbacks are torque steer and weight really
274 hp
280 trq
6 speed manual
exceptional handling for FF
The most important thing I've learned about driving regular cars on the touge is to make sure that you get better brakes, I got really bad brake fade in the last corner of a mountain pass that shoots you right into an intersection, and I almost died cause I flew halfway into it before stopping and a car had to go around me just to not hit me, that was one of the scariest things to happen to me. Also that 4th gen Camry CE had the factory struts on it and there was literally a hole the size of 3 fingers in the base, so yeah, check your suspensions
No one said AE86? Even for the meme?
They're old, expensive, hard to find and are only popular at this point because of the meme
@@transcendentblades yea over like 20k for one now :/ sad my dad sold both of his lol
Kevin Chan yeah I mean it’s all fun and games until the Tofu Tax actually takes hold, and any 86 being sold on Craigslist has the description, “NO LOWBALLERS I KNOW WHAT I GOT!”
Just get a corolla and sup up the suspension, put lighter wheels and tyres and will be keeping up with fastest togue car out there
@@unfairsanic5089 eh it’ll be a contender for sure
Forgot the Celica in the FF section. Insanely good power/weight, good handling, cheap, and reliable.
Just get a corolla that is lightweight and tune the suspension instead
I can update my previous comments since Hyundai was mentioned in the video. Since I now own one, I can say categorically that I would specifically *not* recommend a first-generation Hyundai Veloster Turbo for a beginner driver. Why's that?
Well, first off, the engine is kind of a question mark; 2013s were underbuilt and liked to self-destruct (mine was fobbed off on me by a previous owner who probably knew this was about to happen, and only lasted 3K miles after that before it ran out of oil and spun a bearing), while another few model years have an active engine-related recall in progress. Looking around the internet, it just seems that recent (~2010-onward) Hyundais and Kias are incredibly prone to (often manufacturing-defect-related) engine problems anyway.
The reason I would consider this car unsuitable for a beginning driver specifically, however, is the rear suspension. I don't know what Hyundai were thinking when they set that thing up, but the rear suspension on NA first-gen Veloster Turbos in particular is all kinds of wonky resulting in pogoing and slithering on rough roads. Sometimes it feels like there is no connection between what the rear wheels are doing and what the body is doing, other times it feels like you'll hit a pothole with one side and the car will slither sideways as if trying to change lanes. (And no, it's not just "because torsion beam"; the Ford Fiesta ST and - sorry but I have to say it again - Chevy Cavalier prove those can still have friendly handling.) Apparently, the problem is the damping - so you would need some car setup knowledge to fix it.
I love this car, but don't pick one as your first car.
Miata, supra mk3, chaser, cheap Beemer before 2004, eg6 hatch, and fiero, volvo 240, volvo s60 r, volvo v70 r (for extra daily), focus rs
Fluffynator9000 Mk3 Supra chassis vastly underrated. Amazing touge car, heavy but very good suspension and can put incredible power down in tight corners
@@owenlee4585 I know I just hope they stay underrated until I can buy one lma
My 2.0t track genesis coupe felt like a pretty good platform to build on and I never had any 2nd gear lockout problems with it and before I had a chance to take it back up my local mountain roads I was in an accident on my way to work…she was destroyed 😢
Miata is always the answer! Lol
I wish we had some Canyons and good runs here in Texas.
I'm in Texas hill country. We have fantastic roads. Speeds are higher but the same thing really.
@@SofaKingTouge im in fortworth we have alot of autocross events here and time attacks on back roads by the lakes. I need to venture out but Texas is so damn big you can drive 10 hours straight and still be in Texas lol
@@NathanCutThroat89 I'm near Ft hood. 2 hour drive from Dallas. We had some great turnout last year. Between people moving, cars crashed and engines blown it's kind of slowed down.
I mostly do solo night drives lately.
I do alot of solo night runs as well, especially since i work nights and get off at night.
@@NathanCutThroat89 that brings up an important topic. LIGHTING. I've gone thru 10 or more light setups in the last year.
I have a bugeye wrx that I love. It’s running an ej207 right now but I want to 1uz swap it in the future. I love the chassis and I think shedding the weight of the all wheel drive system and getting more reliable power out of the 1uz will make the car perfect. Making it fit will be a challenge.
I had awd Mini Cooper countryman s did weight reduction and had an stage 1 tune and ran as the best touge car for downhill imo
I want something that's the few year old spiritual successor to the 106 Rallye, but in north america.
for my first couple years i learned fwd in a shity hyundai accent as well as i could drifting on a dirt road, snow and learning left foot breaking on road and took it to a couple autocross events and beat a na. now i bought a na miata and am starting to fixing it up a bit but for someone completely new to it i think fwd is a forgiving starter platform to learn to control the weight balance of the car with more potential than people give it credit for
Yup, FWD generally is more forgiving to beginner mistakes. NA Miata is a great choice coming from the Accent. Dirt/snow must have helped learn FWD oversteering as well
I'd say if you want a cheap RWD car that makes tons of power from the get-go, you should probably look for a late 80s - early 90s Foxbody Mustang 5.0. They're relatively compact, cheap to buy, easy to work on, and the 302 V8 has plenty of potential. However, like with most Mustangs, a lot of weight is on the front tires with very little on the rear tires, so Foxbodies love to go sideways if you mash the throttle constantly.
Foxbody is also a great choice! Helps with practicing throttle mitigation
i run a eg with a b18 and love it and hold good times on the touge. most cars ran in my state is 240 350 370.. but we have a sonic out here who holds fast times and mx5 also we have a few stangs and gti. honestlt it depends on the driver the car and something you can control its not about power its about balance
Over here in Europe, rally drivers start in small light FWD cars. Then move on to faster FWD and later AWD. RWD is also used by experienced drivers but is not the fastest.
I think a light FWD with good handling is great to learn how to drive. About 100hp per ton is enough for a beginner.
Looking at the Touge cars in Japan, you can see that handling is more important than hp.
my best friend had a citroen C3 1.1 61hp 2003 model (it was making around 45hp for sure) and i took it for a pass and I send it too hard, the engine completly shredded to pieces, so this was how i killed my best friends first car :D
Btw that car had an hard life from all the dents that it had, and my friend drove it like it was stolen. Still we had a lot of fun on it, and was a sh*t box ready to quit
As always great video!
The Philippine owner type jeep is decent quick if you get the wright engine , the wright suspension , proper safety stuff and the wright transmission and brakes as well its only available in my country and the location that I do some touge to pagudpod ilocos norte and the apayao cagayan valey roads that had steeper incline sharper turns and decent gutter for gutter runs.
I would like to throw out there that in 2005 Subaru offered every model with a an optional turbo so if you’re looking for an alternative to a wrx start you search there
actually really happy with my 135i. the difference is that you can actually find ones that aren't beat to hell by teens and you aren't buying a 90s car where every single part of the car that hasn't been touched is already 20+ years old. 300hp is a bit on the high end for me for technical stuff but it's definitely fun just ripping the car on on ramps and whatnot. i was really careful with picking who i bought the car from and ended up with a really well looked after example with low miles for about what a clean 90s car costs. hasn't given me any trouble and checks most of the boxes for me. i really don't care about the brand name but my non driver friends definitely wouldn't be as impressed if i ended up in an ek hatch.
im surprised we didnt see the FRS/86/BRZ platform in this video as thats what I drive but they arent as affordable as the other cars in the video so its understandable
i felt that cough after hitting the penjamin
I watch your channel for a year or so,I would be very happy if you would say what you think about my car which is a MK2 1989 Volkswagen Golf 1.8GT.It is rare in the USA but very popular and cheap in Europe,this car isn`t the easiest to drive,it is diffrent than many other cars,even old ones but it teached me a lot about driving and I still have it.It has no electronics and it weights only 900kg with FWD and 90hp,it really teaches your control on every surface at any speed.What do you think ? :)
I haven't driven one so this is based on reasoning. Since it is lightweight and low-power, it's probably not as stable in bumps which requires more driver input. You'll probably do better than most when you transfer to a faster car!
@@RidgeChaser Thanks for your response :) Yeah I guess you are right,driving a slower car is good for learning many things,even more because it has no electronics.This Golf has 8s from 0-100kph so not that slow,it`s even quite fast for a first car in europe,I will tune it because I fell in love with mk2s
My second car was a 2008 prius. Me and the homie got off on the downhills of azuza. Rip prius 💙
When I first got my car I was into drifting and touge but my family knows nothing about cars so when I got my first car I didn't have any intentions on touge racing so I bought a 2010 dodge charger but since then I've had a lot of time to drive it and its a pretty good car if you take some weight out of it. Its awd so it took me a while to get used to but I can put down some good times on the local roads in it now
oh yeah me and my stock 200k miles 2001 corolla be ripping in the mountains keeping up with absolutely nobody lol but i'm ripping! the car cost $1500 and all I added was a rear sway bar and boy did that make a difference for me.
I'd say a cheap BMW would be great, one of the straight 6's
The E30 318is with M42b 4 cylinder has better balance
There’s nothing more expensive than a cheap BMW
people might hate on FWD but Acura TL's handle really nice on the canyons even stock, gonna beat g37's in the canyons with one all day long unless they're a really good driver and modified
People hate on what they don’t understand. I have a 2016 Camry SE with a proper suspension set up and a good tire and surprise the hell out of people in it
Man I'm kicking myself for not buying an Acura TL type S when I had the chance. From what I hear they're a hidden gem
+1 for fit; haven’t ran into anyone too fast yet 🤣
Gotta keep looking!
Sometimes i think so much to Nissan Primera P10 or Nissan Primera P11 /2 models engine
2.0 16v 130hp
2.0 16v 150hp ( in this model the engine is a Sr20de and is a good car to choice.
Maybe the second car is …
Nissan Sunny Gti , is a similar engine Sr20de but more restricted because of the european laws / but the sedan model is a good chasis too.
I’m a lover to this mark because for my opinion is the best to touge: Renault Megane coupe 2.0 16v 150hp (this is a Williams engine) / the Renault Megane 2 2.0T 165hp (this is the Rs engine but restricted to electronic ecu and a low turbo ) and if you have moore money you look this: Renault Megane R26R or Renault Megane 3 Rs or trophy to chasis cup 😁.
If you need help tell me , im gratitude to help you o the others guys 👍🏾😌😊😊
Mazda rx8 is underrated usually dirt cheap and a great suspension. Can be unreliable though takes a lot of maintenance
I would say any Alfa Romeo GTV 916. Problem is its only a car for Europe but if anyone has one i highly recomed it.
Pretty much any lightweight car is a good choice but the Miata is the easiest to juststart racing in.
Just so capable right out of the box, throw on some rsrr‘s, hawk hp+ and rollbar and go learn ur technique.
So cheap to build and amazing mpg which equates to more seat time.
It really is the best car for touge when u take into consideration cost. Master the Miata and you could very easily transition to more powerful cars.
the toyota celica st165 was a 4wd rally car , its very rare to see one of this in the road , but also was a fwd variant more cheaper with 125 hp , you can see videos on youtube of this rally beasts
Not a beast. Plenty of old 162s around. 165s are rare as rockin-horse-shyte these days. But either way a modern Honda Jazz or VW Polo is faster.
Man rips his pen in the vid 😂😂
I know have a 2013 genesis 3.8 sedan an I absolutely love it
Last response was my favorite
Mine too! In the abstract sense
@@RidgeChaser what about a tuned suspension corolla?
I love my saturn. I want more time on winds and such. I get more time with my Kona, but I feel like I have more control with the Saturn.
Great video! might head up north next month and thanks for mentioning me and our team in your video 🙏🤙 -Lui33
I wish I could drive touge... but I sadly live in a state with no mountains or canyons. 😥
Sucks man I live in texas and its rare to find corners here
@@unfairsanic5089 I'm in Maine is there any good touge spots here?
Well it’s funny to hear a lot of different set ups and stuff, but usually when I go touge driving, it’s in my 200sx B14, and I also have a friend who uses his 06 Ford Focus base model 5 speed to drive it hard
While a little off topic I'm looking for a new rallycross car. I started 2 years ago with an integra. I learned a lot but ultimately I ran it into the ground.
Biggest lesson of all? Undercarriage protection.
Honda Fit is always the answer
@@nootyt521 I mean if it wins then it is.
Ayo you got me on that owners are busy at vape conventions😂 that’s me
If you are pushing things to the limits constantly get a shit box, however, if you are taking this slow just about anything with decent handling works. However let us are real, the true best car is the Eg and Ek civic hatchback. Here are my reasons.
1. Handling is amazing
2. Reliability is amazing
3. Parts availability is only rivaled by the ford mustang.
4. Great daily driver.
5. Cheap to fix if you crash (or more likely your car gets stolen)
6. It will literally teach you everything you need to know and you can get really, and I mean really fast. Like beating Ferrari owners fast if you got the right mods.
You want the car to make you better. The ONLY choice is S13 Silvia CA18DET. Has natural understeer so FORCES you to get a finer feel for the weight transfer on entry, especially trail braking deep into the apex, it's an FR layout so has good balance and allows under/over steering tendencies.
any turbo hatch, especially the fiesta st
You should make a touge tips series.
Im planning to use a subaru forester or a outback . Both are 240hp and awd so it sounds good but idk , whats ur opinion on this ? ✌
Both are solid choices especially if you're using it for a daily as well
@@RidgeChaser Hah , thanks for answering but im thinking about a Mazda 323 Gt model . I found one that needs a bit of repairs but its the awd version so its gonna be worth it !
You really can touge anything like I drive an 04 Nissan Titan, the biggest vehicle Nissan makes and it's a lot of fun the low end torque really pushes you out of the corners and it actually has a surprisingly balanced handling for a truck I did upgrade my brakes with a few more upgrades coming soon and the automatic does slow you down if your not hard it but it's still really fun to drive
I have a 2002 Subaru Impreza 2.5 ts and my friend with a gti cannot compete with my all wheel drive
my 1st gen highlander works well for the roads around here
Im wondering how the hyundai Veloster is for touge, I have a 2016 non turbo automatic dual clutch :( though it does have a manual mode*, has low profile racing tires on alluminum 18" rims, big disk brakes front and back, and it seems like it would be a great beginner car to learn with but the price on blue book is 7-10,000$ which, and they stopped making them so the replacement parts are harder to find and more expensive right? I feel the Veloster platform is pretty good for starters, as long as you dont get a lemon (I think they are still sorting out the lemon law stuff for the Hyundai Engine/transmission/clutch issues with the earlier models) , thankfully mine runs great :D. Its just the whole automatic dual clutch thing might be a bad idea to run with, as i really dont have the money to fix that if it goes out.
IMO best starter touge car FWD: DC2 integra, RWD: E36
i think mx5 is the best for begginers
True but they’re hella overrated now, but clean ass prelude tho I’m thinking about picking up one myself
Honda crz's are pretty cool too, really slow on straits but can carry a pretty decent amount of speed. you can carry 90 through some corners and it feels like nothing
super light too, the base model is lighter than the crz ex, the ex just has navigation and its heavy asf
any thoughts on a 2012 mazda 3 mzr? 2800 lb sedan with only 150 hp but a multi link rear suspension , it's a good mix if youre looking for a more daily ,cheap car, it can be good it's just performance. they can be tuned no one has done it tho
Im curious about Mini's I have an 03 base model mini that I autocross and its fun, but Im curious what its like compared to other cars
get a 5 speed civic hatch you can fit 9 tires in the back of an ek with the seat down and its 2300-2400 lb with a full tank so its going to be cheap to own also you can get a faster engine for cheap when you outgrow 106 horsepower
Very good choice especially for the budget.
Camaro, i am dead serious, challenging, but not terrible, and do you want to know what GM stands for Generally Modular, meaning if you screw up, parts can be found at canadian tire, and junkyards alike
I use a lexus IS and its held its own tbh
AWD is best when the likelihood to break traction due solely to horsepower is likely
3:00 very wrong with the genesis coupe. they put undersized wheels and tyres on the front from the factory for safety (understeer), get a good 255 square wheel and tyre setup and some BC Racing Coilovers, megan racing transmission mount for 2nd gear lockout and you're good to go. how can you even say a fifth gen celica which understeers waaay more is a good buy and the genesis isnt???
I think 3 series BMW's are a better platform for just, getting into cars as a whole. Not Just Touge. The things are Timelessly sexy, well balanced, Good wheelbase, Good enough power, and compared to other euro cars, don't break the bank. Not to mention that they fit in Anywhere. Take it to the Touge, Track, Auto-cross, Rally, Stance convention, you name it. No matter what you want to do with your four wheels+engine, the 3 series fits in.
I drive a hyundai nf sonata on touge just to find where my limit and the cars limit is hoping to save enough money for something lighter and to actually pour investment into
I have a 01 corolla with barely any rear brakes stock suspension all around i have some semi slicks i run all 4 same size 185/55 all ive done to it is taken out all the weight in the rear and i keep up with all the top tougers in my area
It shows that sometimes, all you need is seat time and a good set of tires. Hopefully the other top drivers aren't using setups that are too different, otherwise they have some catching up to do.
Nissan hardbody, b2000, and hulux, basically the holy trinity, of jdm minitrucks, stupid cheap, dummy reliable, and you can fix em with a hamer and some malt liquor
my touge car is a 240sx or a 180sx it gotta 5 speed or 6 speed manual and got rwd BTW one of the akina speed stars brothers use the car when they wanted to beat one of the red suns when takumi came instead
Everybody talks about the 5th or 7th gen celicas, but what about the 6th gen ?
i have a RX-8 perfect handling !
I am late to this just found this channel but I would have suggested the a Dodge neon I had a blacked out 1999 r/t coupe 5 speed picked up for 500 bucks it was great in corners but you had to watch out at high speeds getting onto the breaks as the car would shift all the weight to the front an upset the car an spin I learned that the hard way at 100 mph hit a guard rail going backwards
Other cars I have also loved 2003 Celica an my current car 2013 Chevy Cruze not bad handles very well lacks power but they are cheap
Neon could be intersting since it is a relatively light car. I drove the 2012 Chevy Cruz when it first came out, would like to return to one to get that experience again
Ive always had a passion for touge runs, but i never had the money to get a car. I had a sentra but the chain tensioners broke. So thats was that. Carless for a while but i practed in my dads KIA RIO GDI, it Was a fun ass car. But one day I finally got a new car with the help of some family. My mk7 golf tsi. I LOVE this car on the back roads but i needed a “shit box” to beat on because the mk7 was my daily. Having to pay off a car made me stop driving canyons. Not that i was scared i was gonna crash my daily. But scared that i wasnt gonna enjoy my drives in a NEW car off the lot. So i went digging! I searched everywhere for a car! Even tho i was shit broke and just was dreaming at this point. Until one day, i had 700$ in my bank just from my tax return, and I finally found a car! MK3 FUCKING SUPRA for 600$ 75,000 mile engine, started up the day i went to look! Its been about a month of driving the car but still making it road worthy to take on a touge. Once it passes smog, ill be out there finally living my dream.
That is insane! $700 for a low-mile mk3. What part of the world are you from?
Touge driving is done by using the slip angle of a vehicle. As opposed to drifting every single corner
We have a much smaller range of slip angle to stay in between!
Depends on corner radius, camber, grip, entry speed, next straight/bend, uphill or downhill. Techniques used change depending on what came before and what comes next.
Great video. Totally agree with your answer
I use a 1990 Toyota Tercel in big bear California and I go up there probably 3 times a week I know the roads and I know my car I made my friends with a golf r and a 2017 Subaru wrx and they let me lead because they were struggling to keep up they said if I just added wider tires and lower suspension I could really carve those mountains
It’s always fun to drive a slow car fast