One advantage of shorter matches is that I could be more sure that I finish the match before my mum barges in and says it’s time for dinner. I swear, every time you start a competitive game someone has to come in and demand your attention.
This is a flawless solution the community has somehow missed up until now. If Valve doesn't implement this in the next update, it proves they don't REALLY care about the game.
Even increasing the speed of the game by 10% would actually be the most mental change of all time lmao I almost want it to happen for a week or something
Philip predicts the future again! Almost as uncanny as your history of csgo operations series dropping literally days before a new operation started lol.
Do comments actually matter? Like it has been proven, that for a video to be relevant for it to show in trending, comments are irrelevant. I don't know if that is just the case for the algorithm choosing which videos to put on trending, but it would be weird if they where suddenly really important for anything else
Tennis isn't a 5v5 game tho is it. 5v5 games have a shit load more variables so they need more rounds to make sure it's completely fair. If there was only 10 rounds or something it would mean if a team has a bad few rounds or a couple ecos it's GG
i can see what ur getting at, but a single point in tennis isn't the same as a round in CSGO. the outcome of one point (going down 15-0 for example) does not shape up something as critical as the speed of ur next serve similar to how going down 1-0 in CSGO dictates ur economy going into the next round.
The problem is not in length or overtimes or w/e. The problem is that the calendar is oversaturated with tournaments. I got burned out of CS just before Covid got upon us. Since then I haven't watched a single tourney. It's just boring when you have a tournament every day of the week.
Shorter halfs would stop awesome matches such as the one that was shown here (FaZe vs Gambit), where FaZe came back after being behind 11-1. I agree that some matches can be too long but a lot of it is also on ad breaks, technical breaks, timeouts, breaks inbetween maps etc.
I mean if the game switched to MR12, the economy would be changed so that pistol would have less impact and less saves would be required. If you just ignore 2 of the save rounds, they still would have a 3-9 half.
Shorter halves would mean just different length for what is considered awesome comeback. It could be just as easily 9-1 and it would be awesome comeback.
While everyone always debates 15 MMR or 12 MMR, I feel the current problem is more to do with the CT economy in pro CS. There are just so many save calls and the CT weapons are so expensive its hard to ever justify going for a retake. With even numbers sometimes. I think if we lower the costs of CT weapons a bit to be more similar to the T counter-parts ($1800 FAMAS, $2700 M4, $3000 AUG), and give a bit more bonus money for defusal then there will be alot more action and not having to wait 40 seconds every time the Ts take a bombsite for the bomb to explode while the CTs save. The 15 MMR was not as big of a problem back in the day when there were OP pistols and tons of force-buy wars.
Thorin highlighted this in one of his not to old vids,and yes I think with some CAREFUL planning (valve don't you dare muck up) to change the CT economy we would have more varied rounds and potential strats,but at the the same time let the CT weapons not be too cheap for they have the advantage of defense
That's quite interesting that you mention that as relatively recently force wars have dominated the pro scene over the course of the last few months with relatively few drastic save calls overall. At the end of the day, it's not worth retaking some sites depending on bomb timer, utility at hand and more, so in that light it's rare to call for a risky retake regardless of the state of economy since it would be throwing away money regardless.
CTs already have an advantage because they don't have to take risks but only hold the angles. Reducing the costs of the weapon would make their risks even smaller.
Uhhh... except the game is interesting enough to spend time on it, as people are doing. That's not the issue. The problem is how pro matches can take 3, 4 or even 5 hours, which no matter how interesting they are, people who want to watch them are going to have things to do and obligations to attend. I really hope you're a kid because if as an adult you really value your time that little I'm outta hope for you.
its not just csgo, all other media has seen a drop in active users. it's summer and covids ending, what do you expect me to do? sit inside and play csgo all day??
i stopped playing csgo 2 months ago because i realised how the game changed me to be a worse person who is more toxic and aggressive and i figured i would need a break
For 99% of people, 5 hour BO3s and 9 hour BO5s can't be watched in their entirety, so a shorter format would mean that TOs and players get more value (viewership) for every minute they broadcast/play.
Yeah if there only was a gamemode with fewer players and rounds. Maybe with just a single bombsite, to make up for the smaller teams and a seperate ranking system from 5v5 competitive. We could name Wingman or something like that. If only such a thing would exist ...
The BO2 idea sounds more promising than just making the game shorter, especially if it adds more value on each map's performance by both teams. Say, when you're just playing enemy's map and expecting a loss, it should matter how big of a loss it would be. Making anything last for s shorter time isn't always the solution of gaining more interest or popularity.
But in the early days of csgo the bomb timer WAS different: In professional matches 35 seconds and in matchmaking 45 seconds. The current 40 second timer was chosen as a midpoint of them both.
I never was interested in e-sports and never will be. I am absolutely fine with the length of the matches and if I want to play a quick one I just drop into a Wingman game. The actual game and the "pro" circus are two parralel universes. They didn't use SG and AUG for all those years even though the guns were good and they were basically forced to use them because SOMEONE ELSE proved the advantage of AUG and SG on practice. The "pros" cried so hard that guns got nerfed to the ground and nobody even uses them now. The "pros" are disgusting and it is time for them to shut up. There is only a handful of them, but the amount of actual players reaches several millions.
Because Valorant has 13 rounds to win, but nobody in the CS scene wants to admit it works so they come up with "maybe the matches should be shorter" as if it was a new idea.
1:54 I totally agree with you! Here is an idea: what if, instead of using those 20 seconds to buy stuff, we have an option after we die to select from a buy box menu what the game to purchase for us as soon as we spawn in the next round?
At high level that time is used to talk about what we want to do. Phillip clearly being like LE or something and not playing Faceit has stated his own opinion. I think this game needs to be designed around the top 1% of players not random shitters who want to buy and "RUSH B"
Why this is? Oh I don't know.. russian hackers? A ranked system that is all over the place? Smurfs galore? Pay-for-stats? Useless prime/trust factor updates? Must be match length.
I don't think a time-based approach would be as exciting. Too often in sports where the game ends on time you know someone is gonna win too early because at some point it isn't physically possible to make up the points deficit. While the variance in time in CS:GO matches can have problems for spectating, I think the knowledge that a comeback is always theoretically possible makes it more interesting to watch.
I love short. Game economy is definitly not balanced around it sure. But I had the problem where i would just get bored of a match 50% of the way through. Either i would get too tilted, annoyed at my teammates, or just gave up because we were too far ahead or behind.
The idea of matches being time based is so interesting to me. The game changes to being a race to see which team can rack up the most rounds on each side, making both of them play more aggressive and maybe even promoting just straight up DMing instead of playing objective. Its a really cool idea id want to try out, maybe every match is exactly 1 hour or 50 minutes or so.
Thank you for consistently creating content that has entertainee and informed and is just weirdly fun over the past... oh god... years! Years you've been creating content that has always felt original, unique and most importantly charming. Thank you, you trio of merry men (I hope you didnt think I was implying the three channels are run by a single guy) Edit: Oh I also came from another video, like I dont want say csgo content is my favorite of the three, I just happened to see more content and went "I really appreciate these guys and I'll say it on this video"
I literally dropped the game because I don't have time to dedicate 45-60mins to a single game that might not even be fun depending on my teammates and if there is a hacker. If matches were 15mins I'd be down again.
That bo2 idea with overtime on 3rd map is actually great, i would only add up a rule that if match ends with 15:15 score then that's it and both teams have to proceed into the next map that will be deciding unless it ends up being 15:15 again, only then they both have to play overtime third map. That way watching pros playing wouldn't feel like waste of time since all the matches would be over in 1,5 - 2 hours instead of almost 3
Or maybe the reason why the player count dropped is cause of valve removing competitive entirely for f2p accounts. Even so that was probably necessary to get cheaters under control but still removed anything really interesting/relevant for non prime accounts
I think lockdown might have a reason why game numbers are lowering. A lot of countries are lowering or removing restrictions. It’s most likely people just going outside for once.
there was a time where people played counterstrike 1.1 and upcoming versions in an esl league called "CO Ladder" . it was in this ladder where teams competed in 20min (10min halfs) long matches for the most round wins. it was also the time where a bad half meant u have to rush the other half even as a ct. not the defined tactical gameplay as its nowadays. perhaps warowl can do a video about the meta that comes with this.
"People are speculating about why that is." What lol? I thought it was evident enough that the decline in players is because of Valve not giving a flying f*ck about fixing the cheater problem that has not improved in the past several years. Valve has utterly given up, and their last choice was to essentially say to the community, "Please don't cheat, guys." Yeah, like that's going to do anything. Edit: Sure, this decline can be from summer and people getting vaccinated so that they can finally go on a trip and enjoy life, but if VAC worked, we wouldn't see such a massive decline in player count.
wonder how many active players were case farming bots before Valve hit them with the new prime update, this all combined with the obvious decline during summer time which happens every year its no wonder the playerbase on the statistics is dipping
15 second freeze time is so important. It helps my mind to sattle down and mentally prepare for the next round. Will that CT player be in the same spot as the last 2 times or will he be in a different spot this time? Can I out prefire him this time and so on?
@@alastairthomson9846 I'd say yes. You can think if you get molotoved in Banana what do you do next etc. Of course the decisions have to be fastly made. If wanted you can say to a teammate what to do. Let's double nade car, etc etc. :P
I agree, the start time is important, people ask for buys all the time and I always like to check my teams economy, decide whether I need 4 grenades or not, etc. Besides, even if casual players don't need the whole 15 seconds, the pros certainly do. Perhaps adding some quickly clickable comm options for players without mics, like 'I'm going B' or 'rushing palace' etc would make the 15 second round starts more productive?
@@alastairthomson9846 yes, because CS is a mind game. It’s about to outsmart your opponent like in chess. Plan your turn ahead and think about your decisions twice or thrice. This time is so precious.
There used to be a ruleset with fixed time in competitive Counter-Strike, Ts would have a fixed amount of time to attack then they would switch teams after time was up. The winner was who got most wins as T. Ts would usually just rush to get a quick win instead of wasting time playing carefully because CT wins didn't matter so it was replaced. I can't remember the name of it and I literally searched for an hour but couldn't find it. Does anyone remember what it was called?
Just like change for change's sake could make things more interesting, people also tend to like new things. That's why I think a Source 2 overhaul would get more people interested in the game again
no, people HATE new things. people rioted over the clicking in the last few bullets of a mag, the defuse wires, how models walked etc. nobody likes anything new
We had MR12 back then and the only reason it was changed to MR15 was because in 1.6 the pistol round was too important. Ecoing had a losing chance of 98% so in order to make the pistol round less important in total the overall match length got increased. I agree that MR12 nowadays would be absolutely okay and even better since pistols are way stronger, ecoing less bad and force buying more viable.
I'd doubt someone would have a burnout mid game, I find the time to be perfect to be honest, it's the surrender mechanism that's bugging me, I think most throws happen in a game happens because they can't surrender and are just trying to make the game end faster, if atleast 4 players think it's a lob sided game, I think they have they should have the ability to just end it, I don't think it's any fun for both of the teams, one team would have a bad time trying to fight back, while the other isn't even having fun anymore just because of how mundane the match became, it's simply just a waste of time.
I think Thoorin mentioned in a video years ago that the early competitive settings in CS were just 20 minutes a half running time, which forced the Ts to either do fast rounds, or very calculated ones to make sure to make them count.
@@ivanesquivel7740 But how do you determine a map winner, when its a draw and played rounds has to be even number because both teams need to have same chance on both sides?
No. 15 rounds halfs feel classic, competitive, meaningful. A full on match can't take more than 1 hour and a half, and it feels meaningful because you get the time to invest yourself in the game and get a feel for the enemy team's strategies and so on. Please stop turning CSGO to shit just because yall bored. Ask for Cobble back, ask for a viewmodel overhaul, ask for improvements on the game, not random bullshit just because you can't come up with anything new. Did you guys forget about assassination? That 5v5 gamemode where one CT was a VIP which could only buy pistols & armor & the objective was to escort the VIP to a chopper or a boat or any safe location. Bring that to casual play if you're getting bored, but leave the competitive gamemode alone
Exactly, just fixing the game's issues would work (much easier said than done). As someone pointed out a possible culprit for the player drop could just be COVID being towards it's end in combination of it being summer, not this match length stuff.
i really feel like the drop off might just be due to the type of players in MM rn doesnt matter how good you are or how you try to be getting even 1 uncaring teammate destroys your chances almost every game
@@Apokalypse456 that too actually but probably a lot of legit players quitting due to this im unmotivated because i just keep getting fucked by teammates. maybe im just toxic and i deserve to be with the people i get
great point. the actual "matchmaking" is terrible. Every game is either a blowout or getting destroyed because your teammate is 4-22 and has no idea how to play. I am an MGE and at this rank it is hard to even play a competitive game. And....you have to wait nearly an hour for the next one! MM could be fixed a lot by increasing the ease of surrender. Particularly, when there is a blatant cheater we should be able to surrender due to unfair play and save time and elo.
@@horus2955 honestly players should strike. Everyone come together and just stop playing for a couple weeks. Valve would magically figure out a way to stop cheaters if the money dried up
You just reminded me of a good point - Battle Royale games have an absolute maximum length to them, and always tend to end on an exciting note. While RNG is something I dont think any game, let alone CSGO should incorporate, maybe theres something around slowly closing in on playable areas which would force teams to make moves quicker. IMO one of the most boring things in CS is for a team to do a hard rotate back through spawn. What if that was no longer possible 15 seconds into a round? It would make the game much more aggressive.
MR15 is a relatively new standard for CS as a whole, it wasn't always this format during the earlier iterations' tournaments So no, not 2 decades. Barely 1 even.
You nailed it Philip. The variation of game lengths is the bigger issue. Love the creative ideas being thrown about, that helps keep CS fresh. And all respect to gla1ve, shaving 20% has little effect to this. Also, try casual, where you have to buy and (attempt to) coordinate in 5 seconds my man :)
Really? I think the complete opposite. Most teams have a few maps they are very strong on and so through pick ban you end up usually with one strong map for each side and then a third closer map to decide it on. In this proposed new system most games between strong teams are decided by a somewhat random OT on a third map rather than what should actually be the interesting close map. It completely ruins it for me, imagine if nearly every single football game ended with penalties, I don't think that would be fun to watch or play...
@@htjjidr5rk 100% agree with you. Yeah, maybe bo2 OT is spectacular but on the other side cs go is still a competitive game which shouldn't be decided by a coinflip.
Getting kicked out of the arena is what happened to a small (compared to CS) Team Fortress 2 tournament at Dreamhack in Jonkoping. The game also suffers from potentially infinite overtime system despite having a fixed timer per map (30 minutes).
The quickest fix at least for now addressing long OT matches is to make a format of: 30 rounds regulation, one OT of 6 rounds, followed by 2 rounds OTs. It has advantage of giving a less random OT to show who is better but if teams are too close it's still going to happen soon in these bo2 rounds OTs.
Those two things would be entirely different from eachother. If they ever get around to actually porting CSGO to Source 2, their goal will be to do it with the least possible amount of change to the game.
My idea was if a match goes to overtime then only play one overtime, and if this ends with a draw, then combine each player's k/d ratio and calc which team had the better k/d ratio in total (or use other metric instead, but i'd say k/d ratio should be used).
Counter-Strike tournaments originally were 12-round halfs, this was the standard format and was even used @ WCG 2002 and 2003, early CPL events etc. The standardization of 15-round halfs was only after 2004.
I'm really surprised you did not already know this, but fixed time was the default for CS back in the pre 1.6 days in Europe. It resulted in teams not really playing the game but rather playing the clock, especially on the T side. And also when you're on the T side this format rewards more brainless rush strategies as they do not take that much time and iirc when this rule was in place it only counted T side wins and nothing else. Meaning if you played 15 rounds on T side but won 5 you would win against an enemy team who played 4 rounds on T side and won them all.
I like short matches because I can play more in the same time meaning that having a toxic/bad team doesn’t affect me as much, also get to play on more different maps with more chances to find cool people to match up with for the day
The economy change made 16-6 games to easily stretch to 16-10 and beyond. It really made MM games longer. Just go back to the old economy to fix the match length.
My take: it's the map pool mostly. Some of my favourite maps got gutted from CS:GO, so my mappool is limited to 3 maps. After playing 3 maps over and over it is natural to feel burnout.
This aged well
This aged well
Yup
cf gogane
why do you say so?
@@elshabopants7506 Because we have short matches now.
One advantage of shorter matches is that I could be more sure that I finish the match before my mum barges in and says it’s time for dinner. I swear, every time you start a competitive game someone has to come in and demand your attention.
Ok
Ok
Just make your mum get into csgo and she will understand. 0.01% of the time, it works 100% of time
Or ask ur Mom to tell you when she starts cooking
bro just move out and live by your own
these random football clips killed me
why kick the ball into the goal, when you could have the goal move to intercept the ball
lmao was thinking this exact same thing, 3:01 got me good
i hope not, and they did, then i hope your resurrection process went well
@@3kliksphilip That definitely sounds like such a Philip thing to do and I'm incredibly envious of your sprawling meme archive.
How can you comment on youtube when dead?
Philip: talking about how to change the round times
The footage: hehe crabwalk dualies
The most endangered species
If you want a shorter match then just win LMFAO?
true
Or you could lose 0-16
@@watper151 my teammates react like Drake
how to get good:
step 1: git gud
step 2: ??
step 3: profit
Gitting gud, the solution to 99% of the problems
3:03 in Russia, you don't score the goal, the goal scores you
Does someone has a link to this gif?
in Russia, you don't rush B. B rushes you!
reminds me of his old tree jokes
In Mother Russia* respecc plez
@@retsmon3440 yes please. i bet philip found the highest quality version available.
just let the game run at 200% speed lmao problem solved
host_timescale
Chad
This is a flawless solution the community has somehow missed up until now. If Valve doesn't implement this in the next update, it proves they don't REALLY care about the game.
Even increasing the speed of the game by 10% would actually be the most mental change of all time lmao
I almost want it to happen for a week or something
@@Vandyno Start bumping it up in 0.5% increments per day. See how long it takes players to notice.
You can see that he is still upset about England losing in penalties by the number of times he brought it up
Or he thought it would be funny and relevant.
well they didnt even deserve to be in the finals so who cares
@@srensen3081 danish?
@@MrTriple3D nope, im just not english :)
@@srensen3081 exactly
They dint deserved to be there
Philip predicts the future again! Almost as uncanny as your history of csgo operations series dropping literally days before a new operation started lol.
What did he end up predicting?
@@Gyozaplanet2There is short match now
This is a positive comment for the TH-cam algorithm. You just genuinely make good content Mr. Philip, hope this makes a difference.
Algo reply I'm in bed 🥱😴
Do comments actually matter? Like it has been proven, that for a video to be relevant for it to show in trending, comments are irrelevant. I don't know if that is just the case for the algorithm choosing which videos to put on trending, but it would be weird if they where suddenly really important for anything else
nice kris pfp
This video aged well
Tennis has very variable length matches and manages.
it'd be better off with fixed length all things being equal, though
@@quixotes4478 I am sorry, but as an avid tennis fan and a city club level tennis player, I respectfully disagree.
Tennis isn't a 5v5 game tho is it. 5v5 games have a shit load more variables so they need more rounds to make sure it's completely fair. If there was only 10 rounds or something it would mean if a team has a bad few rounds or a couple ecos it's GG
i can see what ur getting at, but a single point in tennis isn't the same as a round in CSGO. the outcome of one point (going down 15-0 for example) does not shape up something as critical as the speed of ur next serve similar to how going down 1-0 in CSGO dictates ur economy going into the next round.
@@tomatolord4219 I said all things being equal, not that it's actually possible to make it fixed time without compromising the rest
There's a short version of competitive mode now! I'm so happy.
The problem is not in length or overtimes or w/e. The problem is that the calendar is oversaturated with tournaments. I got burned out of CS just before Covid got upon us. Since then I haven't watched a single tourney. It's just boring when you have a tournament every day of the week.
agreed.
screw overtime, let the winner be decided by a Dance Dance Revolution Battle.
*flashbacks to WarOwl using a DDR pad as a substitute for WASD*
No. de_westwood standoff
As someone who regularly plays dance dance Revolution, i would greatly enjoy this
@@generic6099 Use R8 Revolver There And The One With Quick Trigger Wins
Shorter halfs would stop awesome matches such as the one that was shown here (FaZe vs Gambit), where FaZe came back after being behind 11-1. I agree that some matches can be too long but a lot of it is also on ad breaks, technical breaks, timeouts, breaks inbetween maps etc.
I mean if the game switched to MR12, the economy would be changed so that pistol would have less impact and less saves would be required. If you just ignore 2 of the save rounds, they still would have a 3-9 half.
@@holdenellis1395 pistol rounds have an impact of a 0.4 round difference. Tomi on twitter did the analysis. That's nothing.
Shorter halves would mean just different length for what is considered awesome comeback. It could be just as easily 9-1 and it would be awesome comeback.
Now you can choose between 12 or 15 rounds.
i love a good, long competitve game!
-burger40
thanks burger40
Thank you, burger40
I agree with burger40.
borgor forto
BURGIR
While everyone always debates 15 MMR or 12 MMR, I feel the current problem is more to do with the CT economy in pro CS. There are just so many save calls and the CT weapons are so expensive its hard to ever justify going for a retake. With even numbers sometimes. I think if we lower the costs of CT weapons a bit to be more similar to the T counter-parts ($1800 FAMAS, $2700 M4, $3000 AUG), and give a bit more bonus money for defusal then there will be alot more action and not having to wait 40 seconds every time the Ts take a bombsite for the bomb to explode while the CTs save. The 15 MMR was not as big of a problem back in the day when there were OP pistols and tons of force-buy wars.
Thorin highlighted this in one of his not to old vids,and yes I think with some CAREFUL planning (valve don't you dare muck up) to change the CT economy we would have more varied rounds and potential strats,but at the the same time let the CT weapons not be too cheap for they have the advantage of defense
Yeah Philip should adress this point
true
That's quite interesting that you mention that as relatively recently force wars have dominated the pro scene over the course of the last few months with relatively few drastic save calls overall. At the end of the day, it's not worth retaking some sites depending on bomb timer, utility at hand and more, so in that light it's rare to call for a risky retake regardless of the state of economy since it would be throwing away money regardless.
CTs already have an advantage because they don't have to take risks but only hold the angles. Reducing the costs of the weapon would make their risks even smaller.
I think solving the problem of something not being interesting enough to spend time on by making it shorter is kind of backwards
This game isn't as entertaining anymore... so let's play less of it?
Uhhh... except the game is interesting enough to spend time on it, as people are doing. That's not the issue. The problem is how pro matches can take 3, 4 or even 5 hours, which no matter how interesting they are, people who want to watch them are going to have things to do and obligations to attend.
I really hope you're a kid because if as an adult you really value your time that little I'm outta hope for you.
@@uwirl4338 the statistics disagree. people are less interested in cs:go in general, not just pro matches.
@@squelchedotter Mb,but its summer (csgo always lose players in summer) + end of quarantine in many countries
Its not that its not interesting enough
We just dont have all the time in the world :))))
its not just csgo, all other media has seen a drop in active users. it's summer and covids ending, what do you expect me to do? sit inside and play csgo all day??
NOOOOOOO WHY ARE YOU REASONABLE WHY AREN'T YOU A NO-LIFE WHO PLAYS VIDBEO GAMEES ALL DAY WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
i stopped playing csgo 2 months ago because i realised how the game changed me to be a worse person who is more toxic and aggressive and i figured i would need a break
Not everyone lives on the north hemisphere genius
Covid ending? xD
covid ending still applies though SCP-173.
I find the current length perfect tbh
@@FilipWizard I find your life to be short
yeah i dislikedthis video, not because its bad but just to show that ppl dont want it
Valves length of the matches is perfect, everything else is just too long.
@@FilipWizard Possibly... Make sure you have life insurance just in case.
For 99% of people, 5 hour BO3s and 9 hour BO5s can't be watched in their entirety, so a shorter format would mean that TOs and players get more value (viewership) for every minute they broadcast/play.
Would rather they just introduced a new mode thats shorter than shorten existing modes
also a good idea basically quick matches
3v3 like apex and game to 10 or something 🤔
@@kjowl-3 I would love a 3v3 gamemode in cs it would be such a breath of fresh air
I like the traditional length for ranked matches. I wish unranked was half length because no one cares about the game by halftime.
Yeah if there only was a gamemode with fewer players and rounds. Maybe with just a single bombsite, to make up for the smaller teams and a seperate ranking system from 5v5 competitive. We could name Wingman or something like that. If only such a thing would exist ...
Those football clips are legendary.
Valve:"Your wish has been granted"
lol
The BO2 idea sounds more promising than just making the game shorter, especially if it adds more value on each map's performance by both teams. Say, when you're just playing enemy's map and expecting a loss, it should matter how big of a loss it would be.
Making anything last for s shorter time isn't always the solution of gaining more interest or popularity.
I think lowering the rounds and scores would be more reasonable. Changing the time for the C4 timer would mess with the way the maps were designed.
But in the early days of csgo the bomb timer WAS different: In professional matches 35 seconds and in matchmaking 45 seconds. The current 40 second timer was chosen as a midpoint of them both.
I never was interested in e-sports and never will be. I am absolutely fine with the length of the matches and if I want to play a quick one I just drop into a Wingman game. The actual game and the "pro" circus are two parralel universes. They didn't use SG and AUG for all those years even though the guns were good and they were basically forced to use them because SOMEONE ELSE proved the advantage of AUG and SG on practice. The "pros" cried so hard that guns got nerfed to the ground and nobody even uses them now. The "pros" are disgusting and it is time for them to shut up. There is only a handful of them, but the amount of actual players reaches several millions.
DONT TOUCH MY BELOVED COUNTER STRIKE
Why is it assumed that the dropoff of CSGO's player count due to the length of the matches?
It’s speculation as for what could help prevent the dropoff
Because Valorant has 13 rounds to win, but nobody in the CS scene wants to admit it works so they come up with "maybe the matches should be shorter" as if it was a new idea.
@@nniiijoo Both games matches last a pretty similar amount of time though
@@nniiijoo the shorter match thing has been a complaint before valorant existed
@@nniiijoo I forgot, how long are val halves again?
Now that you mention it...
Short matches changes the economy but when I’m stuck in in a game for 90 minutes I just want to play for 30 minutes sometimes.
I can't believe how long it took for this to be added.
1:54 I totally agree with you!
Here is an idea: what if, instead of using those 20 seconds to buy stuff, we have an option after we die to select from a buy box menu what the game to purchase for us as soon as we spawn in the next round?
You mean how in League you can buy items while dead
this doesnt work, buytime is not used to buy in pro / high lvl, its used to make strategy
Relativley useless, since you don't know how much money you will earn until the Round is over.
At high level that time is used to talk about what we want to do. Phillip clearly being like LE or something and not playing Faceit has stated his own opinion. I think this game needs to be designed around the top 1% of players not random shitters who want to buy and "RUSH B"
Why this is? Oh I don't know.. russian hackers? A ranked system that is all over the place? Smurfs galore? Pay-for-stats? Useless prime/trust factor updates?
Must be match length.
i was upset when they shortened the rounds, the longer rounds resulted in really cool stuff happening sometimes.
I don't think a time-based approach would be as exciting. Too often in sports where the game ends on time you know someone is gonna win too early because at some point it isn't physically possible to make up the points deficit.
While the variance in time in CS:GO matches can have problems for spectating, I think the knowledge that a comeback is always theoretically possible makes it more interesting to watch.
Long match = boring match.
Make it 5 min for max profit
I love short. Game economy is definitly not balanced around it sure. But I had the problem where i would just get bored of a match 50% of the way through. Either i would get too tilted, annoyed at my teammates, or just gave up because we were too far ahead or behind.
MR 12 proposed long before Valve did it
i was too distracted laughing at the glitched football to listen to the video
The idea of matches being time based is so interesting to me. The game changes to being a race to see which team can rack up the most rounds on each side, making both of them play more aggressive and maybe even promoting just straight up DMing instead of playing objective. Its a really cool idea id want to try out, maybe every match is exactly 1 hour or 50 minutes or so.
Spanking defenetly helps us achieve good results, we will not be satisfied
I love that penalty shootouts last goalie standing is literaly what happens in highschool football
Nah, not in my opinion. I think they are perfect.
Agree
Have you ever played a faceit match with 4 OT's?
@@ok-nz7mt just don’t play faceit lmao ez
@@ok-nz7mt U can't blame overtime
@@ok-nz7mt Yes, and I loved every single second of it!
Thank you for consistently creating content that has entertainee and informed and is just weirdly fun over the past... oh god... years! Years you've been creating content that has always felt original, unique and most importantly charming. Thank you, you trio of merry men (I hope you didnt think I was implying the three channels are run by a single guy)
Edit: Oh I also came from another video, like I dont want say csgo content is my favorite of the three, I just happened to see more content and went "I really appreciate these guys and I'll say it on this video"
Short Match saved CSGO best update ever
I literally dropped the game because I don't have time to dedicate 45-60mins to a single game that might not even be fun depending on my teammates and if there is a hacker. If matches were 15mins I'd be down again.
yeah same
Well well well.... Look at what Valve did.
That bo2 idea with overtime on 3rd map is actually great, i would only add up a rule that if match ends with 15:15 score then that's it and both teams have to proceed into the next map that will be deciding unless it ends up being 15:15 again, only then they both have to play overtime third map. That way watching pros playing wouldn't feel like waste of time since all the matches would be over in 1,5 - 2 hours instead of almost 3
Or maybe the reason why the player count dropped is cause of valve removing competitive entirely for f2p accounts. Even so that was probably necessary to get cheaters under control but still removed anything really interesting/relevant for non prime accounts
No bots is pretty brain dead as well
Cheaters still rampant. There are a lot of old and previously dormant accounts coming back to life with players blatantly walling.
wtf csgo just watched all your videos and fixed everything lmao
I think lockdown might have a reason why game numbers are lowering. A lot of countries are lowering or removing restrictions. It’s most likely people just going outside for once.
3:43 perfectly illustrates the state of csgo right now.
This aged well!
The matches that are close and competitive even with overtime are really fun to watch imo and keep you on the edge of your chair hoping your team wins
The campaign could be a little longer imo
Campaign lmao what?
@@plazmaguy13yago9 he's joking bro ofc there isn't a campaign in CS
@@ghost_ib9928 got it i appreciate you not mentioning a praticular subreddit have a good day 👍
The campaign in CS:CZ deleted scenes was actualy fun and i think it should be longer.
@@plazmaguy13yago9 r/woooooooooosh
there was a time where people played counterstrike 1.1 and upcoming versions in an esl league called "CO Ladder" . it was in this ladder where teams competed in 20min (10min halfs) long matches for the most round wins. it was also the time where a bad half meant u have to rush the other half even as a ct. not the defined tactical gameplay as its nowadays. perhaps warowl can do a video about the meta that comes with this.
the bo2+ot sounds pretty good actually :D
"People are speculating about why that is."
What lol?
I thought it was evident enough that the decline in players is because of Valve not giving a flying f*ck about fixing the cheater problem that has not improved in the past several years. Valve has utterly given up, and their last choice was to essentially say to the community, "Please don't cheat, guys." Yeah, like that's going to do anything.
Edit: Sure, this decline can be from summer and people getting vaccinated so that they can finally go on a trip and enjoy life, but if VAC worked, we wouldn't see such a massive decline in player count.
wonder how many active players were case farming bots before Valve hit them with the new prime update, this all combined with the obvious decline during summer time which happens every year its no wonder the playerbase on the statistics is dipping
Smurfs are the real problem
@@Rosterized Yeah, I think people need to take bot accounts into account because they inflate the numbers.
anyone here from the recent Riptide Operation update?
Always
Valve can try some of these methods in unranked comp mode.
I was thinking the same thing try it out in practical test and see what happens
15 second freeze time is so important. It helps my mind to sattle down and mentally prepare for the next round. Will that CT player be in the same spot as the last 2 times or will he be in a different spot this time? Can I out prefire him this time and so on?
You're telling me you need 15 seconds to think about this
@@alastairthomson9846 I'd say yes. You can think if you get molotoved in Banana what do you do next etc. Of course the decisions have to be fastly made. If wanted you can say to a teammate what to do. Let's double nade car, etc etc. :P
@@gpvs43 and you can't think about that after you died?
I agree, the start time is important, people ask for buys all the time and I always like to check my teams economy, decide whether I need 4 grenades or not, etc. Besides, even if casual players don't need the whole 15 seconds, the pros certainly do.
Perhaps adding some quickly clickable comm options for players without mics, like 'I'm going B' or 'rushing palace' etc would make the 15 second round starts more productive?
@@alastairthomson9846 yes, because CS is a mind game. It’s about to outsmart your opponent like in chess. Plan your turn ahead and think about your decisions twice or thrice. This time is so precious.
I really like how open you are to each though Philip, always looking in every corner!
best meme compilation of the week
Dota 2 players be like "we are approaching 2 hours in this match of this Bo3"
There used to be a ruleset with fixed time in competitive Counter-Strike, Ts would have a fixed amount of time to attack then they would switch teams after time was up. The winner was who got most wins as T. Ts would usually just rush to get a quick win instead of wasting time playing carefully because CT wins didn't matter so it was replaced.
I can't remember the name of it and I literally searched for an hour but couldn't find it. Does anyone remember what it was called?
Chargers
With hostages? This is ooooldschoool! 👍 😊
this sounds really fun
@@_Kayleigh That's it. Thanks.
When was this? I've only been playing for a couple of years and haven't seen this mode before
we need new weapons and utility this will make the game more exiting i think
Just like change for change's sake could make things more interesting, people also tend to like new things. That's why I think a Source 2 overhaul would get more people interested in the game again
no, people HATE new things. people rioted over the clicking in the last few bullets of a mag, the defuse wires, how models walked etc. nobody likes anything new
Friends with an ex-pro, they retired because matches were just too long and they kept getting longer.
if match too long just buy a scout and shoot purple through the head in spawn
What if I don't have purple on my team?
@@Dat-Mudkip shoot green with a deag
Its not about playing, its about watching...
Instructions not clear, I am purple and I completed the match.
@@nlb4329 seriously whats green´s problem?
well, you really called this one my friend
We had MR12 back then and the only reason it was changed to MR15 was because in 1.6 the pistol round was too important. Ecoing had a losing chance of 98% so in order to make the pistol round less important in total the overall match length got increased. I agree that MR12 nowadays would be absolutely okay and even better since pistols are way stronger, ecoing less bad and force buying more viable.
Congrats to one million subscribers🎉
I'd doubt someone would have a burnout mid game, I find the time to be perfect to be honest, it's the surrender mechanism that's bugging me, I think most throws happen in a game happens because they can't surrender and are just trying to make the game end faster, if atleast 4 players think it's a lob sided game, I think they have they should have the ability to just end it, I don't think it's any fun for both of the teams, one team would have a bad time trying to fight back, while the other isn't even having fun anymore just because of how mundane the match became, it's simply just a waste of time.
I think Thoorin mentioned in a video years ago that the early competitive settings in CS were just 20 minutes a half running time, which forced the Ts to either do fast rounds, or very calculated ones to make sure to make them count.
huh, maybe only the last map on a best of 3 or 5/whatever can go into OT
Exactly. Overtime should be left only as a last resort to separate two teams.
@@ivanesquivel7740 But how do you determine a map winner, when its a draw and played rounds has to be even number because both teams need to have same chance on both sides?
@@sandrino5 Why would you NEED to determine a winner of a specific map? The winner of a BO3 should be the team better across all three maps.
No. 15 rounds halfs feel classic, competitive, meaningful. A full on match can't take more than 1 hour and a half, and it feels meaningful because you get the time to invest yourself in the game and get a feel for the enemy team's strategies and so on. Please stop turning CSGO to shit just because yall bored. Ask for Cobble back, ask for a viewmodel overhaul, ask for improvements on the game, not random bullshit just because you can't come up with anything new. Did you guys forget about assassination? That 5v5 gamemode where one CT was a VIP which could only buy pistols & armor & the objective was to escort the VIP to a chopper or a boat or any safe location. Bring that to casual play if you're getting bored, but leave the competitive gamemode alone
Exactly, just fixing the game's issues would work (much easier said than done). As someone pointed out a possible culprit for the player drop could just be COVID being towards it's end in combination of it being summer, not this match length stuff.
i really feel like the drop off might just be due to the type of players in MM rn doesnt matter how good you are or how you try to be getting even 1 uncaring teammate destroys your chances almost every game
I also hope its a lot less cheaters or rather bots levelling up their accounts because its no longer free prime.
@@Apokalypse456 that too actually but probably a lot of legit players quitting due to this im unmotivated because i just keep getting fucked by teammates. maybe im just toxic and i deserve to be with the people i get
great point. the actual "matchmaking" is terrible. Every game is either a blowout or getting destroyed because your teammate is 4-22 and has no idea how to play. I am an MGE and at this rank it is hard to even play a competitive game. And....you have to wait nearly an hour for the next one!
MM could be fixed a lot by increasing the ease of surrender. Particularly, when there is a blatant cheater we should be able to surrender due to unfair play and save time and elo.
@@DriveandThrive i feel like at this point a second type of queue locked by hours would be nice but it could be really bad
@@horus2955 honestly players should strike. Everyone come together and just stop playing for a couple weeks. Valve would magically figure out a way to stop cheaters if the money dried up
You just reminded me of a good point - Battle Royale games have an absolute maximum length to them, and always tend to end on an exciting note. While RNG is something I dont think any game, let alone CSGO should incorporate, maybe theres something around slowly closing in on playable areas which would force teams to make moves quicker. IMO one of the most boring things in CS is for a team to do a hard rotate back through spawn. What if that was no longer possible 15 seconds into a round? It would make the game much more aggressive.
well you don't change a winning formula, Counter strike made is proof over 2 decates.
"if people do it then that means it's good"
MR15 is a relatively new standard for CS as a whole, it wasn't always this format during the earlier iterations' tournaments
So no, not 2 decades. Barely 1 even.
@@toantoan3574 I mean the last decade has been when counter strike has been the most popular ever
You nailed it Philip. The variation of game lengths is the bigger issue. Love the creative ideas being thrown about, that helps keep CS fresh. And all respect to gla1ve, shaving 20% has little effect to this. Also, try casual, where you have to buy and (attempt to) coordinate in 5 seconds my man :)
I think the bo2+overtime idea would probably be perfect
Agreed.
Really? I think the complete opposite. Most teams have a few maps they are very strong on and so through pick ban you end up usually with one strong map for each side and then a third closer map to decide it on. In this proposed new system most games between strong teams are decided by a somewhat random OT on a third map rather than what should actually be the interesting close map. It completely ruins it for me, imagine if nearly every single football game ended with penalties, I don't think that would be fun to watch or play...
@@htjjidr5rk 100% agree with you. Yeah, maybe bo2 OT is spectacular but on the other side cs go is still a competitive game which shouldn't be decided by a coinflip.
Getting kicked out of the arena is what happened to a small (compared to CS) Team Fortress 2 tournament at Dreamhack in Jonkoping. The game also suffers from potentially infinite overtime system despite having a fixed timer per map (30 minutes).
The only Problem I have with Csgo is the broken Matchmaking and smurfing and I think this is the bigger reason why Csgo looses players slowly
The quickest fix at least for now addressing long OT matches is to make a format of: 30 rounds regulation, one OT of 6 rounds, followed by 2 rounds OTs. It has advantage of giving a less random OT to show who is better but if teams are too close it's still going to happen soon in these bo2 rounds OTs.
i think we finally reached the need for a new cs title, or source2
Those two things would be entirely different from eachother. If they ever get around to actually porting CSGO to Source 2, their goal will be to do it with the least possible amount of change to the game.
How about, new CS title ON source2.
bro source 2 is a meme
My idea was if a match goes to overtime then only play one overtime, and if this ends with a draw, then combine each player's k/d ratio and calc which team had the better k/d ratio in total (or use other metric instead, but i'd say k/d ratio should be used).
Hey, they actually made CSGO shorter now Phillip.
Counter-Strike tournaments originally were 12-round halfs, this was the standard format and was even used @ WCG 2002 and 2003, early CPL events etc.
The standardization of 15-round halfs was only after 2004.
We should appreciate Philip for content like that, guys
He just reiterated what Richard and Thorin said in btn, but less in depth lmao
“That isn’t NECESSARILY a bad thing”: it’s MOST DEFINITELY not a bad thing mate.
I'm really surprised you did not already know this, but fixed time was the default for CS back in the pre 1.6 days in Europe. It resulted in teams not really playing the game but rather playing the clock, especially on the T side. And also when you're on the T side this format rewards more brainless rush strategies as they do not take that much time and iirc when this rule was in place it only counted T side wins and nothing else. Meaning if you played 15 rounds on T side but won 5 you would win against an enemy team who played 4 rounds on T side and won them all.
7 minutes of thinking after watching the Video. I think THIS game will really be balanced if m4a4 does one hit head shot
For me, the M4A4 should be cheaper or has higher accuracy than its current state
Match time is not a problem, cheaters and VAC is a real problem
I disagree that match time is not a problem. The other problems are bigger, but I stopped playing the game because the matches are such a drag.
I like short matches because I can play more in the same time meaning that having a toxic/bad team doesn’t affect me as much, also get to play on more different maps with more chances to find cool people to match up with for the day
Proof that philip is working unpaid labor and testing for valve. CS2 is getting 12 round halves lmao
Congrats on 1 Million subs!
The economy change made 16-6 games to easily stretch to 16-10 and beyond. It really made MM games longer. Just go back to the old economy to fix the match length.
It was great when winning full buy round meant something, lol.
My take: it's the map pool mostly. Some of my favourite maps got gutted from CS:GO, so my mappool is limited to 3 maps. After playing 3 maps over and over it is natural to feel burnout.
Honestly if csgo reduced the number of rounds I could see myself playing it again 🤔
Bruh
@@yvsaintes ?
can always play demolition or wingman lol
Just play retakes lol