I covertly recorded a conversation once at work. I kept it for my own reference and was pulled in by my boss who told me the other person had said what I had said. It was a very serious situation and my job was on the line. I showed him the real conversation and proved the girl was lying. I don't think I broke any laws and it saved my job and reputation.
I'm totally in favour of covertly recording conversations that show people to be cheats and liars: particularly when it comes to salesmen or the workplace. Dishonest people richly deserve their comeuppance, and anything that helps them get it is fair game. How can it possibly be unfair to show that a person has been dishonest? A judge who refuses to hear evidence that can throw light on the truth is a bent judge!
Many people fall flat with judges because most judges refuse to hear/see evidence that hasn't been transcribed and tested for authenticity. With the ease of sexing up and doctoring video and audio in this modern age you can understand why they want it all checked and laid out with an assessment that certified the material is unedited, verbatim material and by transcription the material is broken down into segments allowing the judge and briefs to see the whole encounter word for word.
@@dodgydruid true but i think it would be for the other side to prove that the evidence was doctored otherwise video and audio evidence would never be allowed cause even legit video would just get claimed to be fake
At one company the operations manager was bullying me in such an egregious manner that I started going to work with a voice recorder hung round my neck under my shirt, because I could foresee that it would end up at a tribunal, and my accurate account of his behaviour could sound so extreme it might be rejected as being untruthful. A judge had no difficulty accepting the recordings, BUT, I had to produce a transcript of every recording I still had. That was a really big job. However, they were very willing to settle for a 5-figure sum.
@@anthonysicily5768 its a bit late to reply, but voice to text apps are highly unreliable because they get words wrong all the time, due to tonality, accents, background noise et cetera. you still end up having to correct all the punctuation so the text can be read, so you may as well just write the transcript yourself in the first place.
@@anthonysicily5768 Seriously, voice to text apps generally require a fairly clean signal. Most of the recordings I had would have defeated any kind of computerised app, and it was a long and painful process sometimes to work out exactly what someone had said.
A colleague of mine had the same thing, he went into a disciplinary meeting with senior management armed with covert recording as evidence of his line managers bullying antics, Instead of him getting disciplined They actually disciplined his manager in the meeting for being dishonest and being a bully, In the corridor outside after this his manger pulled him to one side and threatened to get him if he ever covertly recorded him again, to which my colleague replied….. “You do realise that I recorded that last meeting and the recorder In my pocket is still running so it picked up that threat you just made” LOL 😂
@@Nickle314 In court, you say nothing unless you're answering questions put to you by a lawyer. The only exception to this is if you are representing yourself. In which case the following quote applies. "A Man Who Is His Own Lawyer Has a Fool for a Client" Abraham Lincoln.
@@Nickle314 I think there are court rules for submitting evidence you may not be allowed to and if you are it will be noted and a big point made about it Being put fourth this late ( I speak from experience not recordeing's ) it may even be called fake and your ability to say it is not is very compromised
@@Nickle314 This shows how little you understand the legal system (the same as Brexit, the EU and covid-19). Unless you're representing yourself, you are absolutely *not* allowed to address a witness. Only evidence that has previously been agreed by the prosecution and defence can be introduced in court.
I have had major problems with Northamptonshire police. I ended up emailing them saying " All conversations will be recorded from now on". I have 146 recordings of lies, misleading the public, contradictions, making up their own laws etc I am hoping to use as evidence in court. I now know to ask for permission from the judge prior to doing this. Thank you BBB, much appreciated.
If you've had that much contact with Northamptonshire Police, I'm gunna go ahead and assume you've commited some crime and are probably just being extremely difficult.
@@rickybojangles162 Not necessarily. If the Police arrested themselves for wasting Police time, we'd soon have no Police because they are the biggest perpetrators of that crime. If you stand up to these bullies they take it personally and harass you for years. Simply putting your vehicle registration on the PNC with markers for drugs and weapons etc wi see you stopped and turned out twice a week for years. It's their form of revenge for not immediately submitting to their will when they overstep the boundaries of the law. Record everything. Say nothing.
@@rickybojangles162 Don't assume anything of the kind. I haven't had any problems with the police itself, far from it. However, when living at my former address: my family and several more in a nearby town all had very negative experiences with a different authority who, on the word of one doctor (later the subject of a major enquiry into her conduct) persecuted us for 3 years. We received numerous phones calls and daily letters (the most was 13 letters in one day), as this crazed doctor pressured social services, called on multiple doctors across more than one county to join in her persecution, and even threatened us with court action. Now you take into consideration this - 'we' were the ones that came to that regional branch of the NHS 'hoping' to get help from them (that's after having just moved from another area, where the NHS there had been wonderfully supportive, effective and making really positive progress for the family member that needed help). But what we got in this new region was backward thinking, self-aggrandising behaviour, blatant lies, and extreme harassment that still gives me nightmares to this day, and gave constant distress for my husband (that I blame for the 2-year-long cancer he battled afterwards). I am not going into detail about what happened because although nearly 20 years have passed, I can still feel myself getting angry and upset. My feelings of revenge against certain people involved in that miserable business are so strong, I cannot go near that county without seeing red. But if you think for one moment that 146 communications from the police to this guy is excessive or 'proof' of his guilt... well, I can tell you, I can more than double that number from this freak of a doctor and her cronies - who just didn't like being told 'they had nothing to offer us' (because they didn't have available the actual medical professional we needed in their entire region). Some of these authorities are made up of self-righteous monsters, who will twist your words and report things not said and not seen. Never trust any authority 100%, ever. Record all conversations.
I work in customer service - I don't see how it would help, us CS agents are already being recorded & you can always get a copy by requesting one as a subject access request. When customers tell me they're recording, I just answer "that's your prerogative, sir" & carry on as usual.
@@vijay-c yeah it's mostly the more dodgy ones it fixes, also it's always interesting to see when some companies either "didn't record that particular call" or it's somehow missing from the batch you request, while you might not be doing anything wrong there are a lot of individuals out there that do
If the voice message says: "This conversation will be recorded for monitoring etc purposes." Then I wouldn't even bother. They've already given you permission.
@@sepgorut2492 that doesn't count as permission, they are required to state that in order for you to be able to opt out by hanging up, it doesn't immediately give you default permission to record it yourself and if you plan on legally sharing it you would still need their consent anyway, which is why the message is there
I have had conversations with social services and other professionals because my children have problems, but after I read a report where they totally lied about what I said, I started to secretly record the conversations. I also recommend recording when dealing with schools.
I had exactly the same,I was so glad I recorded their call as a report was completely wrong..but was changed after they heard the calls! Disgusting as they are dealing with peoples lives & families.
I have used this before during disciplinary action at work. I was accused of something I didn't do and called in for a disciplinary meeting. I placed my phone down when I went in and stated I was recording the proceedings. The manager told me that I was not allowed to do so but I insisted that I was going to do it. This led to a problem, they couldn't proceed with the meeting because I refused to turn off the recording, but that of course meant they could not issue the warning. They couldn't issue me with any warning for recording because I would have insisted on recording that warning also. The manager had to call head office to get advice. Head office told him to drop the entire matter. Problem solved.
I recorded my virgin call when I signed up, my first bill was £50 more than the price I agreed, when I called them they disputed saying that price, I told them I had recorded the call, they said they only accept their own recordings as accurate! They did eventually agree to the price quoted. I record most calls and interactions with officials.
Just get rid; VM are scum. We moved from them last September to Sky for a lower cost and lower speed as VM's service is utter crap and the phone support is even worse!
We had a similar situation with Sky when we were going to switch to VM, the Sky rep promised a lower monthly charge than VM and it would be enforced for 1 year, my we accepted the offer, then we got a bigger bill than promised so we complained, Sky said they’ve checked their recording and denied everything. We switched to VM and have been with them since, I don’t think they’re any better than Sky when trying to squeeze their customers.
its funny how virgin loose those recordings all the time on the flip side bt have actually on a couple of occasions pulled the audio on there side and gone fair play the guy did say that were gonna abide by what he prommised you he shouldnt have said that but well honor it ((not that they had a choice legally))
@Ken Abell they tried sonething like that with me (even tried to trick me into signing something to that effect). I held out for a few months told them I was cancelling and they offered me a new deal, wiping out the "debt" in return for resetting the clock on the 12 months with new and better terms. Then they pulled the same stunt again, but this time I had it recorded. When I told them (after the second disagreement arose) they said something similar: that unless I told them at the time, it was inadmissible in court. I told them that if they were so sure, let them take me to court and run the risk of a perjury charge. Guess what? They backed down.
I do know from my time as a Union Health & Safety rep like you said, that we were allowed to record meetings with management without their knowledge. And it came in rather handy more than once.
I automatically record every single phone call on my mobile using "Cube ACR" it just does it, I mostly forget it's there. A few times it has come into it's own, once on a phone contract where they decided to charge me more than the agreed amount. When they heard the recording with the customer rep, they backed down and refunded the extra payment and continued at the correct tariff. RECORD EVERYTHING!
Same too. I have for a long-time and caught a liar who kept the lie until he was exposed.. Record everything everywhere you never know when you might need it
In the past I have had success with making a company go back to it’s own recordings, they after all,told me as part of a pre-recorded preamble, that they recorded all conversations. So when a phone company repeatedly tried to alter the terms of my agreement, I just told them to go back to our first conversation. They honoured their agreement !
I recorded a conversation between myself and one other, and I used it in court ,it was never played in court but the judge listened to it in his Chambers, we won the case I am not saying my recording won the case for me but it must have helped.
Good job. I always “take notes” and write a transcript of all my calls when I think the other party may lie or try and dispute what was said in the call. Any decent solicitor or barrister acting for the other side will realise that there is an actual recording also. Hehe 😉
Thank you. The law on this seems to have changed a few times since I was young. The last I heard involved a high ranking police officer who covertly recorded a conversation with a senior who was picking on him and setting him up. The ruling of the High Court then was that it was lawful as long as the recording for his own notes only and didn't play the recording to anyone else. However, the court could (and did) have a transcript made of the recording. The police officer won his case based on the transcript. From what you explain, that ruling is unchanged. It is a fair and reasonable decision.
I would say defiantly record especially when speaking with the police. Oh how some of them lie and then retract when they are informed of the recording.
Definately record the police & if their acting unprofessionally, it will assist in helping litigate against commissioner for metropolis of police as being vicariously liable for actions of officers under his/her command.
When I did this, it was very empowering in industrial relations breakdown while exposing fraud, basically as described, for note taking purposes and minute making during disciplinary disputes etc against a vindictive manager, I was a union rep and had very honest opposition once rumour spread lol. I kept it to myself and quoted managers, after being threatened with slander previously for first stage whistleblowing going to my line manager etc, so I thought I’d bait him into making good on his “slander” threat of opportunity arose and then transcribe what I’d made reference to.. he lost his job
I'm being bullied by a coworker who is gaslighting me. I record everything and delete it if it is of no value. It gives me piece of mind and I feel safer now that if he does say anything to me, I will have evidence. I have already reported him, so management are keeping an eye on the situation
I recoreded a diciplinary hearing against me, after I was initially and most wrongly accused of theft of money at work. At the end of the hearing, they stated I was now going to be considered for dismisal., at which point I revealed I'd recorded the whole proceedure, which is too long winded to go into, but most was grossly exagerrated rude and presumtious. Amazingly I was offered a better job with a wage increase just a few days later.
I record all my phone calls, even if i don't need to, most of them get deleted but if the conversation becomes significant, then it's worth having a copy for dispute and legal purposes
If I'm in conversation with a sales rep about buying something like a new or updated/upgraded contract, such as a telephone, and have been advised that it is being recorded for "training" purposes, I always demand a transcript of the conversation. This is because in the past I have been caught out and something that was supposed to be part of the contract was charged as an extra. I rang the company and after arguing with them (having been told that the agent couldn't possibly have said it), I spoke with the sales director and suggested that they consult their recording. Eventually I won my point butit took a lot of time and frayed nerves. They offered no goodwill token except to credit the charges but that is not goodwill. At the end of my obligations business wnt to another company. If you are not satisfied protest with your feet rather than empty, angry words.
Yes that’s true, but isn’t the point of this video to clarify that such recordings might be decided inadmissible in court proceedings? So you can’t rely on them for that purpose.
I'm not a lawyer, just something one told me. If you record a convo it could be rejected by the court, you should type out a transcript of the convo and send it to the person asking if they disagree with anything in the transcript. if they dont then you can enter the transcript of the convo even if the recording is rejected and if they deny something the court will allow the recording to confirm if the transcript is accurate.
NHS covid phoned me. After hello, they gabbled on about recording for security and training and was that ok with me. I said No. They hung up. Good with me, i didn't ask them to phone me. So they didn't want to speak to me unless they could record.
Well that's to protect them, just like the automated message you get when you ring the vast majority of companies, do you not speak to any company ever?
@Advanced Driving Ah yes, all those dirty tricks companies use. I`ve recorded my calls for 10yrs now and it`s made & saved me a lot of money. Sometimes when an operative gets a bit smart with me, I`ll tell them I`m recording them. When they say that I have to tell them that I`m recording at the start of the conversation, I point out that their company made a statement of fact re recorded calls, that covers me also. _This call may be recorded_ ...damn right it might be, haha.
I record all conversations with police. I record all conversations with public officials. I have on so many occasions prior to my becoming an investigative journalist, been caught short with officialdom and screwed over. Never ever again. When talking with witnesses I will take notes and ONLY when I have asked and received permission to do so, will record. Otherwise...I go in prepared...
After a colleague was recorded unknowingly by a manager during an investigation about a minor incident. Manager then produced the recording at a disciplinary interview but in a different context. We all recorded everything and always made sure we were never alone in his office. He eventually got sacked for bullying.
This is a very interesting video and brought up issues and situations I hadn't actually considered. Normally I have a strict rule that, when I believe it is necessary to generate a paper trail of a line of evidencial artifacts I insist on using email as it appears to constitute irrefutable evidence with a coherent timeline. I'll be honest, I dislike conduction anything via the telephone as it creates that 'he said, she said' scenario. The police often seem to try to use the telephone in order to avoid creating a record. As soon as they are pressed to put their position in writing they go instantly silent as they are usually trying to wriggle out of some wrong doing or incompetence.
Practically every business you phone nowadays has the statement ' Your call may be recorded for...' - I choose to interpret that 'may' as being permission rather than possibility...
record edit it use voice recognition and with the right soft wear you can make them say anything you want technology is wonderful these are your words !
@@Cornz38 Also spelled me as my,Oo kill me. You are obviously not British so don't try and teach me the English language. You wouldn't understand any of it! : )
Thinking about the example of insurance companies. Most of these companies state that phone conversations are recorded (for 'training' and 'quality' purposes, naturally). What I would be interested to know is: are you within your rights to ask for a copy of such a recording? Especially if you transact any business during the call (eg taking out travel insurance).
I used covert recordings against my managers on the basis they were prepared to break the law against me but I never made the recordings public and only to a tribunal judge. Amusingly they tried to blackmail me and used a device to ruin my recording but an anonymous person cleared the white noise from the tape so that I could use it.
Been there myself but they didn't know I was recording. How else are you supposed to protect yourself against bent managers and personnel managers who are fixing you up for constructive dismissal ?????
As a "blue-collar" employee I've worked for companies that have been "camera'd up" for years now and frankly I carry on as though anything I do/say is recorded..... just the world I expect. As always cheers for this vid.
I always record the council & my calls whereby I dont know the callers number. NHS told me I would be arrested. I said I will leave the door open for police to arrest me for NOT breaking criminal law. They then shut up!
I secretly recorded my wife’s Disabled assessment and glad I did as her application was refused by a lying assessor, when they knew I had I recording of it and could prove the the assessor lied in the interview she was granted her full allowance
had the same problem with the dwp myself the covert recording proved their lies, they got very upset with me when they found out they had been caught out, works well.
I record every call where I’m dealing with companies and doctors. Especially mobile phone companies as it’s come in handy on more than one occasion. 👍🏾
Social workers routinely tell people they are forbidden to record phone calls or them say in a visit to the house and this is not the case. BTW if you ever chat with Doug Taylor or Gary Self, tell them the mad single dad's daughter turned out fantastic, O and A levels, bit of uni, now a major asset in a frontline NHS unit in Glasgow, would never have done it without those two barrister's or Roger Jarvis my brief :) Daughters court bundle was the largest in the system (four pallet trucks several feet high of papers and half a million quid in legal aid costs) having fought off social workers for 16 years, the longevity of that was due to the change in case law my daughters custody case gave to other single dad's and social services were desperate to queer the caselaw as single dad's was never on their agenda and I broke through it all proving not all of us blokes were wasters.
Great to hear you prevailed, I’ve been in a shorter battle with the SS myself as a single father took 3 years before they realised the mother was a violent alcoholic, think I’m winning now … 😀
Perfect answer and an asset of a channel if you don't mind me saying ! mind you why isn't Law a compulsory subject in Schools? we are all responsible within it from 10 years of age! I guess if it was taught to the proletariat it may demystify the archaic rituals within the exclusive club that is the legal profession and the Public may not need as much expensive advice from Solicitors or perhaps even the ' two taxi driver' Barrister system in the Courts !
I bugged my house and my phone to record my builder discussing the progress of my work with his wife and mates. I learnt a lot from the recordings but I guessed they would not hold up in court. I would not hesitate to do it again but next time with video. Like a nanny-cam, knowledge is power.
It's in your financial interests to record any verbal interactions with employers, keep in mind most people are merely a number to a business. Any time you want an accurate account of what's being said to you I'd always recommend that you record it, if you want to inform the people you're recording that's up to you but doing so may change any interactions entirely.
'Most people are merely a number to a business' is simply not true. 60% of employees work for SMEs (under 250 employees). Given the small number of employees, each individual is unlikely to be treated as a merely a number. Even in larger organisations, managers are humans too, as well as employees themselves. If it is necessary to start recording conversations with your employer, it's probably time to find another job.
@@MyMednas incorrect, and there's substantial evidence to support it one very overwhelming fact is "zero hour contracts" another is "employment agencies" these alone allow employers to drop any employees who are on them with nothing more than a text message. You saying that people aren't just a number is a grossly misinformed statement. Even smaller businesses use the very methods I've just mentioned, it's a means which allows for dismissal with absolute zero comebacks. If you don't want to believe that, that's fine, it by no stretch of the imagination means it isn't happening every single day in the UK.
@@MyMednas Why would a small BUSINESS be any different than a big BUSINESS? I'm here because I record my boss, and when I say small business I mean I am currently the only employee. He's said dodgy things in the past and I want to know I'm not going mad. Plus, I am replaceable as anyone, and he has hundreds of clients, so that doesn't necessarily mean I'm not a number.
I have a phone app on my phone that records all outgoing and incoming calls by default. Invaluable when you are talking to the police during a phone complaint or pretty much anywhere outside an interview under caution or during court (which is the only two places recording becomes illegal). Also note; a Public Officer carrying out a public duty in a public place or when serving the public has zero right to privacy (the clue is in how many times the word 'public' appears in this sentence!). The only recourse an officer who wants you to stop is obstruction (esp during an arrest of another person), which they will try to trick you into committing, so keep distance to 5 metres and your mouth shut if you sense this is happening. Another name for a police officer is 'Public Officer' and law also states that the level of proof Public Officers need to take you to court over covert recordings is far higher than the public; they have to prove 'malicious intent'. Politicians are also Public Officers, which is why the press can record them and publish it ('public interest' beats 'malicious intent' every time in the UK).
Q. For a future video: Can an employee personally record incidents at work for personal protection including sending up their own drone to locate trespassers and so avoid a sudden confrontation?
Would you please make a video on personal data and a data breach and what you can do if a business gives your personal details to a member of the public without consent. Thank you.
I don’t get a chance to tell company’s that I’m recording the call… they start ranting and I can’t get a word in… also most of their people I talk to are people who’s 1st language isn’t English and sometimes I have to listen again to what they’ve said so that I can understand the conversation… also for my brother… he says i say things which i know I didn’t lol…
In the case of someone being bullied at work without witnesses, is it then appropriate to secretly record the behaviour to evidence to the employer the issues?
You're videos are interesting. After I retired in 2009 after 25 years as a workplace union rep I volunteered for the union as a roaming rep for six years. My last 'case' involved a group of people one of who was barrister who wanted to filter his arguments through me to the bosses. We won.
Also the issue is if people say they are recording them, that means they will never be able to get anything new from them, as that other person will be paranoid thinking they are being recorded.
I use a Dictaphone for personal protection, I have faced accusations in the past I couldn't prove false and suffered and it has saved my position , not necessarily work, quite a few times as I turn it on during any confrontation. When you have racist thrown at you unfairly it can get very damaging if not proven false which is happening a lot more lately. Saved my job 4 times in past 2 years. Glad to hear I have been using it reasonably, I don't use it continuously but when the situation warrants protection.
Short answer is yes, as long as at least one party is aware of the recording in process. Since I’d be recording a conversation I was taking part in, the recording is legal.
You can't entrap someone. But you can 'accidentally' switch on the voice recording functionality on your phone, while it is in your pocket. Your phone accidentally dials numbers when it's in your pocket all the time.
that i didnt understand entrapment would be a entirley different thing entrapment is coercing someone into doing illigal activity they would not otherwise do with the intent to catch them in the act example: go on john have a chocolate go on no one will know it will be our secret dont be shy go ahead i wont tell you have manipulated john into doing something he was against and wouldnt have done otherwise recording someone in the act of doing something they would have done anyways wouldnt be entrapment otherwise getting caught on cctv stealing a car would be entrapment
I have read aslong as it is not in changing rooms, toilets etc if it is covert or not, then it is legal. Certain situations people should not tell people they are recording, because as soon as someone knows they will or are being recorded they won't talk or and be selective in what they say or and do etc. If people are not saying they are recording them, then obviously they can find out if someone is doing anything wrong.
As always, excellent content. What is the legal stance when it comes to wearing a bodycam and presenting both video and audio in court? Only last week whilst shopping inSainsbury’s I noticed that all staff members were wearing bodycams and I am sure this will be a trend that will spread into many aspects of our lives.
@blackbeltbarrister, would be interested in your views of GDPR and DVLA selling info to private parking companies. Also those PPC then passing info onto third party debt collectors before county court order
I worked for a retail company here in Ireland. The management was always changing, as in being moved on to other branches. Anyway, there was a change in management en masse. In retail, we can be moved from one departement to another. I was often moved from tills to deli to hot bar counter to food safety as I had qualifications in Food Safey. Anyway, there were 2 department managers who always pitted me against each other which put me into the cross hairs of the Store Manager. They always had their tracks well covered. I bought a cheap dictaphone machine from a well known outlet & I recorded them pitting me against each other and when the store manager was about to shoot me (for want of a better phrase), I played the tape for him proving what the 2 department managers were doing. It transpired I wasn't their only victim and no explanation was given as to why they did what they did. I did tell the Store Manager that I took no pleasure in what I did and explained that there was no other option available to me to prove what was going on. They were never seen again at the branch I worked in. I don't know if they were sacked, or, just moved on to another branch. I remained at the branch for many years after that incident.
I always record 'certain' meetings regardless of whether they know or not. One of my work meetings went so badly of the manager that he shredded all the paperwork.
I was illegally evicted by my social housing landlord. If I hadn’t have recorded the conversation when I confronted the manger at their offices then I wouldn’t have won at court.
In divorce/family court, I would say it is a big no no. Consider: A wife knows her husband doesn't like her mother, and her mother knows this. The mother tells the wife to pick a fight with the husband and record it. In fact, the very fight is ABOUT the mother in law! So, the wife goes to a judge to file for an order of protection and say, "See? He's yelling at me!" Bah. If you want to get a divorce, leave. Or at least move into a different part of the house. Suck it up.
Recordings are vital and if you do not use them you must be prepared to loose. The police, banks, mobile phone companies, DWP and HMRC will always be believed. I had a dispute with the mobile operator ee over a bill. It seemed a phone agent did not write up good notes during a conversation, his promise was not honoured and I cried foul. To their credit ee listened to the recording and immediately, although grudgingly, backtracked. Unfortunately my credit record still took a hit. I often wondered how things ended for the poor agent who made the original error.
So if a company say "your call may be recorded for training purposes", does this mean they can use the recording as evidence in court, or does specifying the purpose of the recording limit it's use for that purpose only? Another great, thought provoking video. It's interesting to see how Government agencies who usually have extremely strict criteria for 'permissable recording devices allowed into interviews', are having to relax it to include recording equipment that is more reasonable to expect Mr Joe Public to have access to.
Really interesting. I was recording a relatives memories in a care home. There was an altercation with the manager who was recorded losing her temper whilst I remained calm and how dismissive she was to my relative. I would like to release this recording to professional third parties (ombudsman or the Care Quality Commission) to prove my innocence and to highlight bad practice but I understand I could end up in court civil or criminal. Surely bad practice in a care home should be released. Really confused.
I wonder how many work incidents are settled confidentially in an agreeable manner for the victim with the employer choosing not to listen to recordings so that they can still maintain some form of deniability regarding workplace practices?
I was in a situation where I was accused of a crime I had not committed, long story short the ‘victim’ requested to meet me so I contacted my solicitor who advised me to ‘protect’ myself if I do decide to go. I put my phone on record in my pocket. The recording picked up the ‘victim’ admitting to falsely accusing me and gloating about it. I kept my cool and once I had left I forwarded the recording on to my solicitor. The matter didn’t go any further once the ‘victim’ was made aware of this, they decided to drop their false accusation and I believe the police then focused on the ‘victim’ for false accusations and wasting police time
It was recording telephone calls made by cold callers, that enable someone to charge them £210 for his time. The company he charged was a firm of solicitors, they fought it and lost.
I covertly recorded conversations with my housing management when being accused of alleged allegations with it being my word against theirs and for my own protection .
As he described, the issue comes when you want to actually use the recording as evidence. Generally speaking, evidence that is gathered illegally is not admissible in court, but it depends on how important the evidence is, and who did it. I'm surprised he didn't saying a bit more about the notion of wire-tapping, as I understood it was illegal to record a phonecall electronically (ie not from a microphone recording the sound coming through a speaker, but directly via the wire), because as far as I am aware, that is specific legislation prohibiting it unless all parties have been warned.
Interesting that you mention GDPR for personal use. I know it applies to businesses but does it apply to sole traders. As a self-employed electrician people give me their details and I'm sure they assume that I will keep them. Is there something I should be doing about this?
I have been known to take a body cam shopping with me. Some very interesting things are both seen and said when around and about. Especially disputes of any description it does stop the BS immediately.
If I tell someone I'm recording right before they're about to start throwing death threats or hate speech or lying then they won't do it which defeats the point or recording in the first place. Obvious entrapment aside people should absolutely be allowed to record things covertly and use such material to defend themselves, kind of wild that's even an argument.
Don’t even have to watch ….simply depends on the states laws …in NJ only one party needs to consent ….you are that party …you can record whoever you want without their knowledge
Thank you for all your video's I was sold a doggy car with a automatic gearbox, which cost me an extra £2500 to repair on top of £7500 I oaid for the car from a trader.
You are legally allowed to record and video whatever your involved in and this can include covertly provided the recordings are not used for illegal purposes. It includes recording for security and Investigations purposes and to remind others. It is however illegal to record for commercial purposes unless the others have been informed beforehand.
I think things like pip assessments or anything else that has a bearing on people's lives based on the judgement should, legally, be recorded as evidence. As it stands DWP forbid recording and therefore there is no evidence of what was said during the assessment. This is a particular situation in which a recording should be made as the claimant may be suffering from a number of conditions that would make it difficult to have accurate recall.
I covertly recorded a conversation once at work. I kept it for my own reference and was pulled in by my boss who told me the other person had said what I had said. It was a very serious situation and my job was on the line. I showed him the real conversation and proved the girl was lying. I don't think I broke any laws and it saved my job and reputation.
Wowzers
@@BlackBeltBarrister *Surely that is illegal if he didn't get consent from the girl to share it?*
"the other person had said what I had said"
What does this mean?
@@TaxingIsThieving Poorly expressed, I agree, but I think what he meant was, " gave her own version of what I had said".
@@BlackBeltBarrister *Is it?*
I would love to see a video explaining about the legality of photographing people in public spaces.
I'm totally in favour of covertly recording conversations that show people to be cheats and liars: particularly when it comes to salesmen or the workplace. Dishonest people richly deserve their comeuppance, and anything that helps them get it is fair game. How can it possibly be unfair to show that a person has been dishonest?
A judge who refuses to hear evidence that can throw light on the truth is a bent judge!
Many people fall flat with judges because most judges refuse to hear/see evidence that hasn't been transcribed and tested for authenticity. With the ease of sexing up and doctoring video and audio in this modern age you can understand why they want it all checked and laid out with an assessment that certified the material is unedited, verbatim material and by transcription the material is broken down into segments allowing the judge and briefs to see the whole encounter word for word.
The problem is these can be set-up and the court must consider public policy, its not just this case the judgment creates precedent.
@@dodgydruid true but i think it would be for the other side to prove that the evidence was doctored otherwise video and audio evidence would never be allowed cause even legit video would just get claimed to be fake
100% AGREE DEFO WHEN IT COMES TO SCUM BAG SOCIAL SERVICES
In todays environment, had I not walked away from the work place, I'd certainly have a hidden recorder in my office or on my person.
At one company the operations manager was bullying me in such an egregious manner that I started going to work with a voice recorder hung round my neck under my shirt, because I could foresee that it would end up at a tribunal, and my accurate account of his behaviour could sound so extreme it might be rejected as being untruthful. A judge had no difficulty accepting the recordings, BUT, I had to produce a transcript of every recording I still had. That was a really big job. However, they were very willing to settle for a 5-figure sum.
To create accurate transcripts simply use a voice2text app.
it's weird that they won't listen to a recording but will read a transcript of recordings.
@@anthonysicily5768 its a bit late to reply, but voice to text apps are highly unreliable because they get words wrong all the time, due to tonality, accents, background noise et cetera. you still end up having to correct all the punctuation so the text can be read, so you may as well just write the transcript yourself in the first place.
@@anthonysicily5768 Seriously, voice to text apps generally require a fairly clean signal. Most of the recordings I had would have defeated any kind of computerised app, and it was a long and painful process sometimes to work out exactly what someone had said.
A colleague of mine had the same thing, he went into a disciplinary meeting with senior management armed with covert recording as evidence of his line managers bullying antics,
Instead of him getting disciplined They actually disciplined his manager in the meeting for being dishonest and being a bully,
In the corridor outside after this his manger pulled him to one side and threatened to get him if he ever covertly recorded him again, to which my colleague replied…..
“You do realise that I recorded that last meeting and the recorder In my pocket is still running so it picked up that threat you just made” LOL 😂
Even if its not legal in some cases I would. , especially with specific types of authority and people... Especially In todays day, age.
@@Nickle314
In court, you say nothing unless you're answering questions put to you by a lawyer. The only exception to this is if you are representing yourself. In which case the following quote applies.
"A Man Who Is His Own Lawyer Has a Fool for a Client"
Abraham Lincoln.
@@Nickle314 I think there are court rules for submitting evidence you may not be allowed to and if you are it will be noted and a big point made about it Being put fourth this late ( I speak from experience not recordeing's ) it may even be called fake and your ability to say it is not is very compromised
@@Nickle314
This shows how little you understand the legal system (the same as Brexit, the EU and covid-19). Unless you're representing yourself, you are absolutely *not* allowed to address a witness. Only evidence that has previously been agreed by the prosecution and defence can be introduced in court.
@@ianl1052 not quite true - you can make a statement from the dock
@@ianl1052 Well surely if both needed to agree no prosecution would EVER agree with evidence proving your innocence being given!
I have had major problems with Northamptonshire police. I ended up emailing them saying " All conversations will be recorded from now on". I have 146 recordings of lies, misleading the public, contradictions, making up their own laws etc I am hoping to use as evidence in court. I now know to ask for permission from the judge prior to doing this. Thank you BBB, much appreciated.
Brilliant, Wish I had done the same thing on many occasions.
You can't trust the police, say nothing to them without a record or they will lie.
If you've had that much contact with Northamptonshire Police, I'm gunna go ahead and assume you've commited some crime and are probably just being extremely difficult.
@@rickybojangles162 Not necessarily. If the Police arrested themselves for wasting Police time, we'd soon have no Police because they are the biggest perpetrators of that crime. If you stand up to these bullies they take it personally and harass you for years. Simply putting your vehicle registration on the PNC with markers for drugs and weapons etc wi see you stopped and turned out twice a week for years. It's their form of revenge for not immediately submitting to their will when they overstep the boundaries of the law. Record everything. Say nothing.
@@rickybojangles162 Don't assume anything of the kind. I haven't had any problems with the police itself, far from it.
However, when living at my former address: my family and several more in a nearby town all had very negative experiences with a different authority who, on the word of one doctor (later the subject of a major enquiry into her conduct) persecuted us for 3 years.
We received numerous phones calls and daily letters (the most was 13 letters in one day), as this crazed doctor pressured social services, called on multiple doctors across more than one county to join in her persecution, and even threatened us with court action.
Now you take into consideration this - 'we' were the ones that came to that regional branch of the NHS 'hoping' to get help from them (that's after having just moved from another area, where the NHS there had been wonderfully supportive, effective and making really positive progress for the family member that needed help).
But what we got in this new region was backward thinking, self-aggrandising behaviour, blatant lies, and extreme harassment that still gives me nightmares to this day, and gave constant distress for my husband (that I blame for the 2-year-long cancer he battled afterwards).
I am not going into detail about what happened because although nearly 20 years have passed, I can still feel myself getting angry and upset. My feelings of revenge against certain people involved in that miserable business are so strong, I cannot go near that county without seeing red.
But if you think for one moment that 146 communications from the police to this guy is excessive or 'proof' of his guilt... well, I can tell you, I can more than double that number from this freak of a doctor and her cronies - who just didn't like being told 'they had nothing to offer us' (because they didn't have available the actual medical professional we needed in their entire region).
Some of these authorities are made up of self-righteous monsters, who will twist your words and report things not said and not seen.
Never trust any authority 100%, ever. Record all conversations.
I've made a covert recording myself, which I later used in court. Had it not been for the recording, I'd have lost the case.
Problem with a company? I always say, "I record my telephone calls for reference, just as your company does." Amazing how it can improve a response.
I work in customer service - I don't see how it would help, us CS agents are already being recorded & you can always get a copy by requesting one as a subject access request. When customers tell me they're recording, I just answer "that's your prerogative, sir" & carry on as usual.
@@vijay-c yeah it's mostly the more dodgy ones it fixes, also it's always interesting to see when some companies either "didn't record that particular call" or it's somehow missing from the batch you request, while you might not be doing anything wrong there are a lot of individuals out there that do
Had a few times i told them at the end. Very upset a few years ago when ebay cold called me and at the end the guy got very annoyed and hung up lol
If the voice message says: "This conversation will be recorded for monitoring etc purposes." Then I wouldn't even bother. They've already given you permission.
@@sepgorut2492 that doesn't count as permission, they are required to state that in order for you to be able to opt out by hanging up, it doesn't immediately give you default permission to record it yourself and if you plan on legally sharing it you would still need their consent anyway, which is why the message is there
I have had conversations with social services and other professionals because my children have problems, but after I read a report where they totally lied about what I said, I started to secretly record the conversations. I also recommend recording when dealing with schools.
I had exactly the same,I was so glad I recorded their call as a report was completely wrong..but was changed after they heard the calls! Disgusting as they are dealing with peoples lives & families.
I have used this before during disciplinary action at work. I was accused of something I didn't do and called in for a disciplinary meeting. I placed my phone down when I went in and stated I was recording the proceedings. The manager told me that I was not allowed to do so but I insisted that I was going to do it. This led to a problem, they couldn't proceed with the meeting because I refused to turn off the recording, but that of course meant they could not issue the warning. They couldn't issue me with any warning for recording because I would have insisted on recording that warning also. The manager had to call head office to get advice. Head office told him to drop the entire matter. Problem solved.
Full boss mode
Good stuff
What did they accuse you of doing, and did you do it?
Fabulous
@@sam04019491he won’t answer if he is smart enough to record
I recorded my virgin call when I signed up, my first bill was £50 more than the price I agreed, when I called them they disputed saying that price, I told them I had recorded the call, they said they only accept their own recordings as accurate! They did eventually agree to the price quoted. I record most calls and interactions with officials.
I would say "well listen to your recording then"
Just get rid; VM are scum. We moved from them last September to Sky for a lower cost and lower speed as VM's service is utter crap and the phone support is even worse!
We had a similar situation with Sky when we were going to switch to VM, the Sky rep promised a lower monthly charge than VM and it would be enforced for 1 year, my we accepted the offer, then we got a bigger bill than promised so we complained, Sky said they’ve checked their recording and denied everything. We switched to VM and have been with them since, I don’t think they’re any better than Sky when trying to squeeze their customers.
its funny how virgin loose those recordings all the time
on the flip side bt have actually on a couple of occasions pulled the audio on there side and gone fair play the guy did say that were gonna abide by what he prommised you he shouldnt have said that but well honor it ((not that they had a choice legally))
@Ken Abell they tried sonething like that with me (even tried to trick me into signing something to that effect). I held out for a few months told them I was cancelling and they offered me a new deal, wiping out the "debt" in return for resetting the clock on the 12 months with new and better terms. Then they pulled the same stunt again, but this time I had it recorded. When I told them (after the second disagreement arose) they said something similar: that unless I told them at the time, it was inadmissible in court. I told them that if they were so sure, let them take me to court and run the risk of a perjury charge. Guess what? They backed down.
I do know from my time as a Union Health & Safety rep like you said, that we were allowed to record meetings with management without their knowledge. And it came in rather handy more than once.
I’ve done the same
I automatically record every single phone call on my mobile using "Cube ACR" it just does it, I mostly forget it's there. A few times it has come into it's own, once on a phone contract where they decided to charge me more than the agreed amount. When they heard the recording with the customer rep, they backed down and refunded the extra payment and continued at the correct tariff. RECORD EVERYTHING!
Same too. I have for a long-time and caught a liar who kept the lie until he was exposed.. Record everything everywhere you never know when you might need it
Same, it's like insurance... You have when you don't really need it, until the one time you do.
Me too! Glad to know I'm not alone :) 🤕😮! esp within the medical sector LONG
before cv magically appeared.
Sad times we live in 💗 x
@@M123-w1s It's crazie life at the mo
I use the exsct app very good
In the past I have had success with making a company go back to it’s own recordings, they after all,told me as part of a pre-recorded preamble, that they recorded all conversations. So when a phone company repeatedly tried to alter the terms of my agreement, I just told them to go back to our first conversation. They honoured their agreement !
I recorded a conversation between myself and one other, and I used it in court ,it was never played in court but the judge listened to it in his Chambers, we won the case I am not saying my recording won the case for me but it must have helped.
Good job.
I always “take notes” and write a transcript of all my calls when I think the other party may lie or try and dispute what was said in the call.
Any decent solicitor or barrister acting for the other side will realise that there is an actual recording also. Hehe 😉
@@Liberty_Freedom_Brotherhood You must just have a really good memory.
Thank you. The law on this seems to have changed a few times since I was young.
The last I heard involved a high ranking police officer who covertly recorded a conversation with a senior who was picking on him and setting him up. The ruling of the High Court then was that it was lawful as long as the recording for his own notes only and didn't play the recording to anyone else. However, the court could (and did) have a transcript made of the recording. The police officer won his case based on the transcript.
From what you explain, that ruling is unchanged. It is a fair and reasonable decision.
NEEDS TO BE WRITTEN IN LAW THAT PARENTS ARE ALLOWED TO RECORD SOCIAL SERVICES MEETING AND THAT ALL MEETINGS ARE TO BE RECORDED BY SOCIAL SERVICES
I would say defiantly record especially when speaking with the police. Oh how some of them lie and then retract when they are informed of the recording.
ESPECIALLY when speaking with the police
Always when speaking with the police, and always video them if they are face to face.
Definately record the police & if their acting unprofessionally, it will assist in helping litigate against commissioner for metropolis of police as being vicariously liable for actions of officers under his/her command.
When I did this, it was very empowering in industrial relations breakdown while exposing fraud, basically as described, for note taking purposes and minute making during disciplinary disputes etc against a vindictive manager, I was a union rep and had very honest opposition once rumour spread lol. I kept it to myself and quoted managers, after being threatened with slander previously for first stage whistleblowing going to my line manager etc, so I thought I’d bait him into making good on his “slander” threat of opportunity arose and then transcribe what I’d made reference to.. he lost his job
I'm being bullied by a coworker who is gaslighting me. I record everything and delete it if it is of no value. It gives me piece of mind and I feel safer now that if he does say anything to me, I will have evidence. I have already reported him, so management are keeping an eye on the situation
I recoreded a diciplinary hearing against me, after I was initially and most wrongly accused of theft of money at work. At the end of the hearing, they stated I was now going to be considered for dismisal., at which point I revealed I'd recorded the whole proceedure, which is too long winded to go into, but most was grossly exagerrated rude and presumtious. Amazingly I was offered a better job with a wage increase just a few days later.
I record all my phone calls, even if i don't need to, most of them get deleted but if the conversation becomes significant, then it's worth having a copy for dispute and legal purposes
Do you use a particular app?
If I'm in conversation with a sales rep about buying something like a new or updated/upgraded contract, such as a telephone, and have been advised that it is being recorded for "training" purposes, I always demand a transcript of the conversation. This is because in the past I have been caught out and something that was supposed to be part of the contract was charged as an extra. I rang the company and after arguing with them (having been told that the agent couldn't possibly have said it), I spoke with the sales director and suggested that they consult their recording. Eventually I won my point butit took a lot of time and frayed nerves. They offered no goodwill token except to credit the charges but that is not goodwill. At the end of my obligations business wnt to another company. If you are not satisfied protest with your feet rather than empty, angry words.
Journalists regularly covertly record conversations. They publish it without permission, especially when they are publishing dodgy deals etc.
Yes that’s true, but isn’t the point of this video to clarify that such recordings might be decided inadmissible in court proceedings? So you can’t rely on them for that purpose.
They are legally entitled to record the conversation, which is the question asked in the video.
@@Kyrelel And is the interviewee legally entitled to rip the recorder out of their pocket?
I'm not a lawyer, just something one told me.
If you record a convo it could be rejected by the court, you should type out a transcript of the convo and send it to the person asking if they disagree with anything in the transcript. if they dont then you can enter the transcript of the convo even if the recording is rejected and if they deny something the court will allow the recording to confirm if the transcript is accurate.
NHS covid phoned me. After hello, they gabbled on about recording for security and training and was that ok with me. I said No. They hung up. Good with me, i didn't ask them to phone me. So they didn't want to speak to me unless they could record.
Well that's to protect them, just like the automated message you get when you ring the vast majority of companies, do you not speak to any company ever?
@@shanematthews1985 Try not to.
@Advanced Driving Ah yes, all those dirty tricks companies use. I`ve recorded my calls for 10yrs now and it`s made & saved me a lot of money. Sometimes when an operative gets a bit smart with me, I`ll tell them I`m recording them. When they say that I have to tell them that I`m recording at the start of the conversation, I point out that their company made a statement of fact re recorded calls, that covers me also. _This call may be recorded_ ...damn right it might be, haha.
@@rattusnorvegicus4380 Yes, everyone on the call will have heard the words, “this call may be recorded…” No need to repeat them.
Same here. They nevrr phoned again.
I record all conversations with police. I record all conversations with public officials. I have on so many occasions prior to my becoming an investigative journalist, been caught short with officialdom and screwed over. Never ever again.
When talking with witnesses I will take notes and ONLY when I have asked and received permission to do so, will record. Otherwise...I go in prepared...
Your informational legal edutainment shared with us may have SAVED LIVES!!
Personal records for the win!!!!
After a colleague was recorded unknowingly by a manager during an investigation about a minor incident. Manager then produced the recording at a disciplinary interview but in a different context. We all recorded everything and always made sure we were never alone in his office.
He eventually got sacked for bullying.
I hope my manager gets sacked he is a fucking bully
This is a very interesting video and brought up issues and situations I hadn't actually considered. Normally I have a strict rule that, when I believe it is necessary to generate a paper trail of a line of evidencial artifacts I insist on using email as it appears to constitute irrefutable evidence with a coherent timeline.
I'll be honest, I dislike conduction anything via the telephone as it creates that 'he said, she said' scenario. The police often seem to try to use the telephone in order to avoid creating a record. As soon as they are pressed to put their position in writing they go instantly silent as they are usually trying to wriggle out of some wrong doing or incompetence.
When they say "this call is being recorded for training and quality purposes", I think to myself, damn right, as I press record.
Practically every business you phone nowadays has the statement ' Your call may be recorded for...' - I choose to interpret that 'may' as being permission rather than possibility...
record edit it use voice recognition and with the right soft wear you can make them say anything you want technology is wonderful these are your words !
I think all calls should be recorded. This would of saved my a lot of trouble and got a few people sacked! I would hope.
It would HAVE saved you. Of and have are not the same and don't mean the same thing.
@@Cornz38 Also spelled me as my,Oo kill me. You are obviously not British so don't try and teach me the English language. You wouldn't understand any of it! : )
Great timing for me. Looking forward to this.
Thinking about the example of insurance companies. Most of these companies state that phone conversations are recorded (for 'training' and 'quality' purposes, naturally). What I would be interested to know is: are you within your rights to ask for a copy of such a recording? Especially if you transact any business during the call (eg taking out travel insurance).
I used covert recordings against my managers on the basis they were prepared to break the law against me but I never made the recordings public and only to a tribunal judge. Amusingly they tried to blackmail me and used a device to ruin my recording but an anonymous person cleared the white noise from the tape so that I could use it.
Wow, how'd they do that
Been there myself but they didn't know I was recording. How else are you supposed to protect yourself against bent managers and personnel managers who are fixing you up for constructive dismissal ?????
As a "blue-collar" employee I've worked for companies that have been "camera'd up" for years now and frankly I carry on as though anything I do/say is recorded..... just the world I expect. As always cheers for this vid.
Another good un.I,m getting schooled and love it.”Its all about context’ is now my fav legal line.ha.thanx
Love that!
I always record the council & my calls whereby I dont know the callers number. NHS told me I would be arrested. I said I will leave the door open for police to arrest me for NOT breaking criminal law. They then shut up!
I secretly recorded my wife’s Disabled assessment and glad I did as her application was refused by a lying assessor, when they knew I had I recording of it and could prove the the assessor lied in the interview she was granted her full allowance
had the same problem with the dwp myself the covert recording proved their lies, they got very upset with me when they found out they had been caught out, works well.
@@dbrown51967 well done mate 👍
I record every call where I’m dealing with companies and doctors. Especially mobile phone companies as it’s come in handy on more than one occasion. 👍🏾
Do you mean with 3 where they tell you they have 99% network coverage but they have poor signal nearly everywhere? Will do.
Obviously this all applies when you are part of the conversation. It is quite different if you are recording other people when you are not present.
Social workers routinely tell people they are forbidden to record phone calls or them say in a visit to the house and this is not the case. BTW if you ever chat with Doug Taylor or Gary Self, tell them the mad single dad's daughter turned out fantastic, O and A levels, bit of uni, now a major asset in a frontline NHS unit in Glasgow, would never have done it without those two barrister's or Roger Jarvis my brief :) Daughters court bundle was the largest in the system (four pallet trucks several feet high of papers and half a million quid in legal aid costs) having fought off social workers for 16 years, the longevity of that was due to the change in case law my daughters custody case gave to other single dad's and social services were desperate to queer the caselaw as single dad's was never on their agenda and I broke through it all proving not all of us blokes were wasters.
Great to hear you prevailed, I’ve been in a shorter battle with the SS myself as a single father took 3 years before they realised the mother was a violent alcoholic, think I’m winning now … 😀
Congratulations on the great outcome for your daughter
Good for you, well done, do you offer advice please? SS are destroying my Mum's life and mine.
Who read all of the documents?!
Perfect answer and an asset of a channel if you don't mind me saying ! mind you why isn't Law a compulsory subject in Schools? we are all responsible within it from 10 years of age! I guess if it was taught to the proletariat it may demystify the archaic rituals within the exclusive club that is the legal profession and the Public may not need as much expensive advice from Solicitors or perhaps even the ' two taxi driver' Barrister system in the Courts !
I bugged my house and my phone to record my builder discussing the progress of my work with his wife and mates. I learnt a lot from the recordings but I guessed they would not hold up in court. I would not hesitate to do it again but next time with video. Like a nanny-cam, knowledge is power.
It's in your financial interests to record any verbal interactions with employers, keep in mind most people are merely a number to a business.
Any time you want an accurate account of what's being said to you I'd always recommend that you record it, if you want to inform the people you're recording that's up to you but doing so may change any interactions entirely.
'Most people are merely a number to a business' is simply not true. 60% of employees work for SMEs (under 250 employees). Given the small number of employees, each individual is unlikely to be treated as a merely a number.
Even in larger organisations, managers are humans too, as well as employees themselves.
If it is necessary to start recording conversations with your employer, it's probably time to find another job.
@@MyMednas incorrect, and there's substantial evidence to support it one very overwhelming fact is "zero hour contracts" another is "employment agencies" these alone allow employers to drop any employees who are on them with nothing more than a text message.
You saying that people aren't just a number is a grossly misinformed statement.
Even smaller businesses use the very methods I've just mentioned, it's a means which allows for dismissal with absolute zero comebacks.
If you don't want to believe that, that's fine, it by no stretch of the imagination means it isn't happening every single day in the UK.
@@MyMednas Why would a small BUSINESS be any different than a big BUSINESS? I'm here because I record my boss, and when I say small business I mean I am currently the only employee. He's said dodgy things in the past and I want to know I'm not going mad. Plus, I am replaceable as anyone, and he has hundreds of clients, so that doesn't necessarily mean I'm not a number.
You cover so much! Day to day things one would not think about! Very helpful thankyou,
I totally agree 👍
Many Thanks... And incredibly timely with a little on going situation for me.
I have a phone app on my phone that records all outgoing and incoming calls by default. Invaluable when you are talking to the police during a phone complaint or pretty much anywhere outside an interview under caution or during court (which is the only two places recording becomes illegal).
Also note; a Public Officer carrying out a public duty in a public place or when serving the public has zero right to privacy (the clue is in how many times the word 'public' appears in this sentence!). The only recourse an officer who wants you to stop is obstruction (esp during an arrest of another person), which they will try to trick you into committing, so keep distance to 5 metres and your mouth shut if you sense this is happening.
Another name for a police officer is 'Public Officer' and law also states that the level of proof Public Officers need to take you to court over covert recordings is far higher than the public; they have to prove 'malicious intent'. Politicians are also Public Officers, which is why the press can record them and publish it ('public interest' beats 'malicious intent' every time in the UK).
Q. For a future video:
Can an employee personally record incidents at work for personal protection including sending up their own drone to locate trespassers and so avoid a sudden confrontation?
@@MrBollocks10 It works in Ukraine...
You should mention investigative journalism where releasing information is in the publics interest.
Would you please make a video on personal data and a data breach and what you can do if a business gives your personal details to a member of the public without consent. Thank you.
I don’t get a chance to tell company’s that I’m recording the call… they start ranting and I can’t get a word in… also most of their people I talk to are people who’s 1st language isn’t English and sometimes I have to listen again to what they’ve said so that I can understand the conversation… also for my brother… he says i say things which i know I didn’t lol…
Thank you for clearing this up. I was had a Police officer that didn't know I could.
You sir are a gem, thank you.
In the case of someone being bullied at work without witnesses, is it then appropriate to secretly record the behaviour to evidence to the employer the issues?
Good question
I don't see why not.
You're videos are interesting. After I retired in 2009 after 25 years as a workplace union rep I volunteered for the union as a roaming rep for six years. My last 'case' involved a group of people one of who was barrister who wanted to filter his arguments through me to the bosses. We won.
Also the issue is if people say they are recording them, that means they will never be able to get anything new from them, as that other person will be paranoid thinking they are being recorded.
I use a Dictaphone for personal protection, I have faced accusations in the past I couldn't prove false and suffered and it has saved my position , not necessarily work, quite a few times as I turn it on during any confrontation. When you have racist thrown at you unfairly it can get very damaging if not proven false which is happening a lot more lately. Saved my job 4 times in past 2 years. Glad to hear I have been using it reasonably, I don't use it continuously but when the situation warrants protection.
Thank you so much.
Many thanks !
Short answer is yes, as long as at least one party is aware of the recording in process. Since I’d be recording a conversation I was taking part in, the recording is legal.
Big "Thanks" for clarifying that.
yes you can, covertly or overtly, the only real question is 'what are the consequences?'
You can't entrap someone.
But you can 'accidentally' switch on the voice recording functionality on your phone, while it is in your pocket. Your phone accidentally dials numbers when it's in your pocket all the time.
that i didnt understand entrapment would be a entirley different thing
entrapment is coercing someone into doing illigal activity they would not otherwise do with the intent to catch them in the act
example: go on john have a chocolate go on no one will know it will be our secret dont be shy go ahead i wont tell
you have manipulated john into doing something he was against and wouldnt have done otherwise
recording someone in the act of doing something they would have done anyways wouldnt be entrapment otherwise getting caught on cctv stealing a car would be entrapment
@@Sarge92 i think you meant "otherwise NOT do"
@@Boudicca-the-musical indeed
I have read aslong as it is not in changing rooms, toilets etc if it is covert or not, then it is legal.
Certain situations people should not tell people they are recording, because as soon as someone knows they will or are being recorded they won't talk or and be selective in what they say or and do etc.
If people are not saying they are recording them, then obviously they can find out if someone is doing anything wrong.
As always, excellent content.
What is the legal stance when it comes to wearing a bodycam and presenting both video and audio in court?
Only last week whilst shopping inSainsbury’s I noticed that all staff members were wearing bodycams and I am sure this will be a trend that will spread into many aspects of our lives.
Answer is in the first line the answer is yes and as an individual you can never be classed as entrapment so ultimately stay clear of them folks
I always record calls to companies, utilities,insurance and the like . You just can’t trust them.
If a company tells me they are recording the call, I take it as read they agree to my recording. After all, it's simply a duplicate of theirs.
@blackbeltbarrister, would be interested in your views of GDPR and DVLA selling info to private parking companies.
Also those PPC then passing info onto third party debt collectors before county court order
The Short answer is Yes, Yes you can record anyone, anytime, anywhere. In person over the phone or while hiding in a closet at 2am in the morning.
I worked for a retail company here in Ireland. The management was always changing, as in being moved on to other branches. Anyway, there was a change in management en masse. In retail, we can be moved from one departement to another. I was often moved from tills to deli to hot bar counter to food safety as I had qualifications in Food Safey. Anyway, there were 2 department managers who always pitted me against each other which put me into the cross hairs of the Store Manager. They always had their tracks well covered. I bought a cheap dictaphone machine from a well known outlet & I recorded them pitting me against each other and when the store manager was about to shoot me (for want of a better phrase), I played the tape for him proving what the 2 department managers were doing. It transpired I wasn't their only victim and no explanation was given as to why they did what they did. I did tell the Store Manager that I took no pleasure in what I did and explained that there was no other option available to me to prove what was going on. They were never seen again at the branch I worked in. I don't know if they were sacked, or, just moved on to another branch. I remained at the branch for many years after that incident.
I always record 'certain' meetings regardless of whether they know or not. One of my work meetings went so badly of the manager that he shredded all the paperwork.
I was illegally evicted by my social housing landlord. If I hadn’t have recorded the conversation when I confronted the manger at their offices then I wouldn’t have won at court.
In divorce/family court, I would say it is a big no no.
Consider:
A wife knows her husband doesn't like her mother, and her mother knows this.
The mother tells the wife to pick a fight with the husband and record it.
In fact, the very fight is ABOUT the mother in law!
So, the wife goes to a judge to file for an order of protection and say, "See? He's yelling at me!"
Bah.
If you want to get a divorce, leave. Or at least move into a different part of the house. Suck it up.
Recordings are vital and if you do not use them you must be prepared to loose. The police, banks, mobile phone companies, DWP and HMRC will always be believed.
I had a dispute with the mobile operator ee over a bill. It seemed a phone agent did not write up good notes during a conversation, his promise was not honoured and I cried foul. To their credit ee listened to the recording and immediately, although grudgingly, backtracked. Unfortunately my credit record still took a hit.
I often wondered how things ended for the poor agent who made the original error.
I thought you could share recordings if it's in the public interest. Otherwise how do media and whistleblowers get away with it?
So if a company say "your call may be recorded for training purposes", does this mean they can use the recording as evidence in court, or does specifying the purpose of the recording limit it's use for that purpose only?
Another great, thought provoking video. It's interesting to see how Government agencies who usually have extremely strict criteria for 'permissable recording devices allowed into interviews', are having to relax it to include recording equipment that is more reasonable to expect Mr Joe Public to have access to.
I will answer this on th-cam.com/users/BlackBeltSecrets !
I've heard "your call may be recorded for training and other purposes" before, I guess other pretty much covers everything.
Does this also apply to police interviews/meetings that they have not recorded, or are there any special considerations?
Really interesting. I was recording a relatives memories in a care home. There was an altercation with the manager who was recorded losing her temper whilst I remained calm and how dismissive she was to my relative. I would like to release this recording to professional third parties (ombudsman or the Care Quality Commission) to prove my innocence and to highlight bad practice but I understand I could end up in court civil or criminal. Surely bad practice in a care home should be released. Really confused.
My unprofessional understanding is if it's serious then the judge doesn't care that it was recorded in secret.
I wonder how many work incidents are settled confidentially in an agreeable manner for the victim with the employer choosing not to listen to recordings so that they can still maintain some form of deniability regarding workplace practices?
Great videos, thank you so much for sharing yr knowledge and info.
I was in a situation where I was accused of a crime I had not committed, long story short the ‘victim’ requested to meet me so I contacted my solicitor who advised me to ‘protect’ myself if I do decide to go. I put my phone on record in my pocket. The recording picked up the ‘victim’ admitting to falsely accusing me and gloating about it. I kept my cool and once I had left I forwarded the recording on to my solicitor. The matter didn’t go any further once the ‘victim’ was made aware of this, they decided to drop their false accusation and I believe the police then focused on the ‘victim’ for false accusations and wasting police time
I recorded gas company manager telling me on the phone she was glad I cut off...I was put back on with no charges
It was recording telephone calls made by cold callers, that enable someone to charge them £210 for his time.
The company he charged was a firm of solicitors, they fought it and lost.
I covertly recorded conversations with my housing management when being accused of alleged allegations with it being my word against theirs and for my own protection .
If you are doing it secretly, why would it matter weather you are "allowed" to do it, or not ?
As he described, the issue comes when you want to actually use the recording as evidence. Generally speaking, evidence that is gathered illegally is not admissible in court, but it depends on how important the evidence is, and who did it. I'm surprised he didn't saying a bit more about the notion of wire-tapping, as I understood it was illegal to record a phonecall electronically (ie not from a microphone recording the sound coming through a speaker, but directly via the wire), because as far as I am aware, that is specific legislation prohibiting it unless all parties have been warned.
Government agencies are allowed to break the law, by law, under the new Covert Human Intelligence Sources bill.
Interesting that you mention GDPR for personal use. I know it applies to businesses but does it apply to sole traders. As a self-employed electrician people give me their details and I'm sure they assume that I will keep them. Is there something I should be doing about this?
I have been known to take a body cam shopping with me. Some very interesting things are both seen and said when around and about. Especially disputes of any description it does stop the BS immediately.
How many 'disputes' do you have while shopping?
@@TaxingIsThieving not so much as actual disputes more provocative sarcasm etc.....just a sign of the times and/or you can't get the staff anymore.
Thanks for the clarity, I am a bit hard of hearing so the video was useful for that too
Would it be possible to give us instructions to look at examples of Case Law within the Courts. How would we do this? Thank you in advance.
Thanks brilliant advice again 👍
If I tell someone I'm recording right before they're about to start throwing death threats or hate speech or lying then they won't do it which defeats the point or recording in the first place. Obvious entrapment aside people should absolutely be allowed to record things covertly and use such material to defend themselves, kind of wild that's even an argument.
Don’t even have to watch ….simply depends on the states laws …in NJ only one party needs to consent ….you are that party …you can record whoever you want without their knowledge
Thank you for all your video's
I was sold a doggy car with a automatic gearbox, which cost me an extra £2500 to repair on top of £7500 I oaid for the car from a trader.
You are legally allowed to record and video whatever your involved in and this can include covertly provided the recordings are not used for illegal purposes. It includes recording for security and Investigations purposes and to remind others. It is however illegal to record for commercial purposes unless the others have been informed beforehand.
The laws surrounding ‘ External residential cctv cameras ‘ would be very helpful.
I think things like pip assessments or anything else that has a bearing on people's lives based on the judgement should, legally, be recorded as evidence. As it stands DWP forbid recording and therefore there is no evidence of what was said during the assessment. This is a particular situation in which a recording should be made as the claimant may be suffering from a number of conditions that would make it difficult to have accurate recall.