Quick correction: As pointed out by @felixfraser-krauss669 , Comeback actually gives 60 AP (10 AP of each ability) instead of 72AP. I was using outdated info from splatoon 1... oops
A way to make tenacity useful would be to make it a backline come-back. When teammates dies, you get a certain amount of various abilities that progresively increase the more teammates are dead. The effects disappear and reset when you die or when all teammates are alive for 7 seconds.
Interesting… Now I'm thinking of like a reverse comeback - where the abilities that gets buffed are also the mobility, ink-saving & special charge-up ones, except it activates when teammates are dead. I think not only backlines would benefit - frontliners too. Whether teammates are dead in front or behind you, you get to have faster feet to escape & anchor at a safer space until teammates are back. Would that kinda ability become a problem? Is it too weak? I think even if it's weak for competitive, if there's a way to still make it useful/fun for solo q somehow, that's still fair. Like aerospray & clash. I'm not sure what kinda new concepts Akira thought of that makes Tenacity too strong or too weak, kinda curious.
To add to this idea, if only one teammate is dead, then the backliner with tenacity will get 3 AP of Quick Super Jump, Ink Saver Main, Ink Saver Sub, Sub Resistance, Special Charge Up, and Special Power Up (total of 18 AP), but if two teammates are dead, this effect will increase to 7 AP of each ability (total of 42 AP), and if 3 teammates are dead, 13 AP of each ability (total of 78 AP).
@@strawberrymilk607 it should be 6 instead of 7 because 7 would make a unique number of AP that is only accessible through that ability. And to balance that, I would add Ink resistance in your selection of abilities that tenacity gives.
With that rework, tenacity could work with QR comps, since teammates will keep on dying and increase the number of AP. It can start weak with 6 AP (2 subs) of come-back abilities (plus QSJ and Ink Res) and increase by 3 AP (1 sub) per additional teammate death. It will cap at 36 AP (9 subs) of each ability and will be balanced by slowly increasing the effects and loosing all of them when you die or hold advantage.
@@jjQlLlLq Since the effects dissipates and reset when you die, it will only be useful on backlines, supports and skirmishers that stay alive. It will work the best on splatlings, brellas, Dualy squelshers, Bamboo and Sloshing machine. Because of these limitations, you can only have one tenacity per comp and you can't use QR with it.
I used to use tenacity in Splatoon 2 because disconnects were frequent in that game, and so if my team had a disconnect, my special charge would be constantly going up. Definitely helped me win a lot of games we wouldn’t have otherwise won 3v4.
I still get DCs in 3, so when I use my Tenacity gearset and a DC happens after 30 seconds of the match starting, I constantly gain Specials passively. And as a backline-user, they can turn the game around when used correctly.
I think I found a way to fix tenacity without changing the core identity of the ability! Instead of a passive special charge while your team is dead, you get a fixed amount of special charge when someone on your team dies. Maybe something like 20 points.
Maybe Tenacity needs to add a bit of special saver (if you get splatted while outnumbered), bomb defense up (hold on while teammates respawn), and some ink resistance (to help mobility while under pressure) to it's suite of effects?
I really think that Tenacity, alongside Respawn Punisher and Stealth Jump, needs to be replaced. The former two because they promote unhealthy play or are impossible to healthily balance, and the last one because it’s so popular that it really should become a core mechanic of Super Jump.
@slyllamademon2652 I know, I’m saying that it should become a default effect of Super Jumps so that you can use that shoe slot on something else but not lose the effect. I think it should become a mechanic and not a gear ability because it’s so popular and good for the game, then have its old ability slot be filled by something new.
I disagree and think a better way to do it would be instead to remove jump roller and make that base kit instead since it still allows you to punish players making reckless super jumps while also allowing some counterplay but 'nerf' stealth jump by making equipping it take away that basekit roll in exchange for hiding your jump point from distant foes like it has always done, this base kit roll would make duelies stronger so it isn't a fool proof idea, but I still think it would be better than removing stealth jump altogether.
With the idea of QR and Tenacity being abilities everyone has instead of gear abilities, this reminded me of another idea I had a while back: having respawn times be determined by how many players are on a team. Similar to how the respawn times for Attackers in Tri-Color and during the Dual of the Dynamic Duos challenge are shorter, because the teams only have 2 players, what if only having 3 players on a team lowered that team's respawn times by give or take 2 seconds? And same deal for 2 or even 1 player teams, with the time removed adjusted accordingly (I know this would mainly apply to private battles, or the rare match that goes horribly wrong, but I think it would be nice.)
A fantastic video! Just wanted to add a correction for 5:30 that Comeback only gives 60AP of abilities nowadays, It did give 72AP in Splatoon 1 but was nerfed in 3.0 of Splatoon 2 to give 10 AP per ability instead of 12AP
Imo tenacity can be saved. If the actual effects of the ability were meaningful, it would be useful for backlines, supports, and other weapons that don’t die too often, even if the ability itself isn’t active for that long due to cooler/QR/the inherent nature of the ability. If its effect was just as strong as something like comeback, there would be comps that would find a use for it, even with cooler. The problem is that it’s not as strong as comeback or LDE or really anything else, it only has passive special charge and even that does practically nothing in the grand scheme of things. I think that if they made it into a version of comeback designed for non-aggressive weapons, it could work. Buff the effects of the ability to compensate for it not being active that long (especially with cooler), and make it have more than just SCU to make sure it doesn’t promote passive special spamming too much. Would not be opposed to receiving the exact same buffs as comeback across many abilities in order to make the ability worth it. Just as comeback is pretty widely run by weapons that die a lot, I can envision a world where tenacity is in the same state, only for weapons that don’t die a lot. They really just need to expand it to be more on par with the only headgear exclusive abilities in terms of sheer power level (preferably by giving more than just passive special charge).
Tenacity could be saved by gaining a non-special charge ability relayed to its play style. I think it could be an interesting anchor option if it gave 10 AP of Quick Super Jump to teammates that jump to the user from spawn.
My school has a splatoon team where due to schedule conflicts, we're sometimes forced into 3v4s to have a chance of picking up rounds. Our three most available all run tenacity in that situation. We call ourselves the Tenacity Trio
This is the first video I’ve seen of yours because it was in my recommended feed, but it’s already incredible! I love hearing what others say about different topics in this game and I’ve always never been a fan of Tenacity. It should really be thrown out for something new in a future game. Congrats on 1K subs! Your channel feels super underrated right now so I hoping for a big blow-up someday!
I always just assumed Tenacity was an ability mainly used by backlines since they typically stay alive when the rest of the team does not, so they get the most value out of it throughout a match, but maybe that's just a splatoon 1, or Solo Queue kind of mindset
@@onewingedakira Ok, then I am totally fine as a Solo Queue backline player. 😁 The only thing I don't know is, helps special charge to get more points, if the points came from the goal and not from painting the ground? In Tower Control you get points, when you push the tower as example.
I’m considering using it because of the frequency that my teammates die at. It’s not uncommon to have multiple teammates with 10+ deaths so for solo queue it seems totally worth it for back and midline weapons.
Wanted to use Tenacity anyways for a laugh? We had a tool for that; it was called: *RETREATING AND PAINTING FOR SPECIAL.* Jokes aside, Tenacity isn't just fundamentally flawed by gear abilities & Cooler alone. The mere existence of playing the game & backing up when you're at a disadvantage already has doomed the ability to fail.
Random rework idea, that seems cool. Players jumping to you have a few points (like maybe 5) of quick super jump, and gain a short buff when they jump to you (like 5 ap of swim and run) for 4 seconds. It would turn a player into a weird beacon. Speaking which, beacon could get that second part as a buff. Not sure how good this would be or anything, but it’s an idea.
Consider: Tenacity - Headgear ability If more than one enemy player damage you within a few seconds of eachother, gain X amount of spec charge up for Y seconds or until fully healed.
Random thought. Since Tenacity plays for your special and passively charges depending on how many is splatted on your team, give it special saver in case you get splatted as well. 1 main of special saver depending on how many is splatted on your team relative to the opposing
It's totally savable, it just needs some reworks. Easiest thing would be to alter the condition from "number of teammates down" to "number of teammates got splatted in the last X seconds". This removes the problem with quick respawn, since the time difference no longer matters. Teammate dies = 5 sp points. No strings attached. Besides that, just give it any other trait except Special Charge. Be it Swim Speed, Intensify Action, Ink Saver Main/Sub, Ink/Sub Resistance...ANYTHING that helps you win the fight in a pinch. Its called "tenacity" after all, so why does it grant something that only helps when you run away or are like 2% off from getting your special anyway? It should at least come with Special Saver so in case you die, you don't lose all the special points that you just gathered. Alternatively, we go in a different direction and make it a side grade to Comeback. Based on the number of splatted teammates in the last 10 seconds, it grands buffs to help you catch up and regroup faster after you eventually die as well. Special Saver, Quick Respawn, Quick Super Jump, Run/Swim Speed. The worse the situation, the faster you come back.
3:08 I think Object Shredder is also a counterpick ability in any mode outside Rainmaker. If your opponents have no objects on their team, it's completely useless. The viability of OS heavily depends on what specials (and weapons, to a degree) are meta
HARD rework for Splat 4 Tenacity has the same amount of passive charge, It low lasts for 2 seconds after your ally has respawned. in addition. If your team is down players when you die, you get increased Special Saver based on the team difference. While the Passive build rate is active you gain Special power up.
Tenacity also requires you to be able to stall the other team at player disadvantage to be effective, be it in neutral or with the special that Tenacity charges. Splatoon 3 is not particularly conducive to stall of any kind, even without Cooler the meta's brute force entry tools are stronger than universal defensive tools, seemingly by design. In Splatoon 1 Tenacity was actually a decent choice for backliners that weren't terminally addicted to Damage Up (though LDE/OG didn't exactly function back then), and even in 2 it was still useful for select weapons with poor paint but high survivability. In 3, the only survivable thing is Snipewriter, and Snipewriter kills the entire idea of Tenacity by being a paint god tossing out instant respawns to teammates. If I was reworking Tenacity into something worthwhile, I'd scrap the special charge mechanic altogether and give literally any other set of abilities as its effect. It all works. Both speed and efficiency in any proportion would do great to dampen the effect of being down a teammate by letting you do more things in a given amount of time, while stuff like ink res + QSJ would make you slipperier and thus more survivable instead. A funny idea would be a bit of QR as a Tenacity effect, making you match teammates' respawn schedule instead of staggering it and thus letting you either go for broke or cut the losses more easily in such a situation. On top of that, I would extend the effect timer for 3-4 seconds after teammate's respawn, since that's about how long it'll take for them to get back in action after the respawn.
They should rework tenacity to just be when your team goes down, so if it ends up being a 1v1 because everyone else is dead, you can have an edge. I also think the devs should add abilities. At max effect, it should be 3 mains of ink resistance, 3 mains of intensify action, 3 mains of quick super jump, 3 mains od special power up, and 3 mains of special saver. And let it keep the passive special charge. This will support the several playstyles a player might do when stuck in a situation as well as reward the player for being able to stay alive the longest. I could imagine this working with backlines or certain sharking weapons.
One cool idea with Tenacity is make it similar to Last Ditch Effort in its prerequisite. Whenever your team is losing, you get a little bit of passive Special charge. Maybe 1 point per point you’re losing by, or in Turf War 1 point per .1% you’re losing by. Every, I don’t know, 5 seconds? This would stack on top of the passive charge you get during ranked modes.
I could definitely see Tenacity getting a buff where you have an additional main of special saver and special power up for each team mate that is down. Then it could be viable for backliners who, if they do die, it's probably after their team has gone down and they're being rushed. So they'd still get some kind of benefit more consistantly. - either they have a full special meter so they get more power, or if they don't, they lose less special if they do go down. Still wouldn't be better than LDE, but it would have a benefit over special charge up this way. And backliners don't want to run comeback anyway as they shouldn't expect to go down as often. Only real problem is the benefit would only be to backliners that just want to output more specials.... and we already have one of those dominating the meta... that is already get special charge up limits put on it in tournaments...
itd be real impactful if you got charged immediately depending on how many teammates go down. imagine whenever you’re minus 1 player you immediately get 25% of your meter… you might even thank them for going down at certain times
i think it could be saved as an mpu replacement, an option for the final player standing to “lock the f*** in” and clutch up. i could see a backline being overwhelmed when their tenacity activates, allowing them to charge up lethal blows faster than they would be able to otherwise, hitting multiple shots in a row, saving a game that would snowball into a loss otherwise. thoughts?
what if tenacity also had a special saver effect where if you get splatted you get progressively less special charge loss with each additional player who has not yet respawned.
I like the idea of making tenacity just an inverted comeback, where it just grants abilities while active instead of actively putting points in the meter. Though… Abilities in general just need to be reworked, I think. Beyond the balance and implementation of many abilities being terrible, I think the way they’re obtained and used also needs big tweaks. Abilities are too important, they’re more a knowledge check than a source of customization. Like Stealth Jump and value subs, or the mountain of bad and niche abilities (Running Speed or Intensify Action on Splatanas for example). Maybe a system where you get one unique ability, two “mains,” three “subs” and no dupes would work? And cut/merge a bunch of abilities… Merge RS and IA, SPU OS and BPU, the ink savers and recovery, bake in Stealth Jump, remove Special Charge… And then rebalance from there of course.
Tenacity should be basekit soo that players (mainly in turf) who could be susceptible to spawn camping could have a smaller chance of trying to get a special. also change it to something like Rally : being close to a teammate allows you to charge up special with the same numbers of tenacity. It makes it able to work longer than a teammates death and tries to allow teamwork or multi shooter spam, which has a losing MU to rollers and blasters
Tenacity should be folded into either Last Ditch Effort or Comeback. It’s useless on it’s own, but if it’s combined with either of those two into a single ability, it would definitely be an improvement.
I have an idea for a Tenacity rework that is... probably not very balanced if I'm being honest, but I do feel like it'd be very funny so I'm sharing anyway: What if instead of passive special charge while teammates were dead, it was reworked to give you a stacking buff to special charge up _and_ special power up? Specifically, the first time a teammate dies, you get +7 points of both abilities, immediately putting it almost on par with special charge up. A second death adds +6 points, putting you up to 13. Then +5, +4 and so on up to a max of 28 points of special charge + special power that doesn't go away when teammates respawn. The catch? You lose all these buffs the next time you die, _and_ the next time you use your special. So you get to charge up and fire off this superpowered special, but if you're aiming to spam special you'll get far less out of the ability than a playstyle that uses them strategically. Additionally, the risk of dying with special is even higher with this ability, making you a juicy target for the other team to take down. One last thing: if teammates are still dead when you respawn, you'll also get a stack of this buff, but only until they respawn as well at which point it goes away (you only get to keep the buff if they die while you're still alive). Unless you're in a situation with a disconnect, in which case you just get one stack permanently and always start at +7.
Edit: I just remembered that cooler exists and is basically by far the strongest special with special power up, and so this version of Tenacity would synergize with it so well that everyone would just have permanent tacticooler. So uh... maybe like cooler deaths don't count for this? I dunno it's easier to imagine this ability working in a world without cooler lol
Why not just give Tenacity the same benefits as Last Ditch Effort? Turf War: +20% passive charge when "Danger!" is over your team. Splat Zones: +20% passive charge when enemy team is in the lead and not under any penalties. Tower Control: +5% passive charge for every enemy on the tower, while enemy team is in the lead. Rainmaker: +20% passive charge if your opposing team broke through your check point and you haven't theirs. Clam Blitz: Like Splat Zones, +20% passive charge when your basket is broken and the enemy team has no penalties.
If only Tenacity didn't care about number of active enemies and activated solely depending on number of teammates alive it will be quite stronger. Not sure if it will be enough to consider running it but still much better than what we have now.
Correct me if im wrong but u even get special charge up automatically depending on mode and if u have lead or are behind. So tenacity even gets beaten by ingame mechanic which isnt gear dependant at all.
Idea: What they could do to fix Tenacity is make it an ability that BUFFS you with run/swim or hell maybe even dmg up when allies are somewhat/all dead. An ability like that would be interesting and allow for it to be more combat focused rather than special spammy. I think making it easier to hold down the fort when you wipe would be an interesting ability.
i still like running it with vunder i don't know why but since I manage to play around the shield and survive more things than I probably should, it feels like I get more value from it What if Tenacity also made allies jump to you faster, though?I I think playing into the whole Objective: Survive thing could be neat.
Tenacity should be removed and turned into an ability only active when your team has a dc. That way, the team has a better chance of winning the match despite being down a player. I believe there are more interesting abilities we could pursue over keeping tenacity, plus removing flawed abilities prevents newer players from building gear that hinders them.
on the topic of no reason to droop tacticooler for tenacity what if you run tenacity with tentacooler? couldn’t that help the situation there? also this sucks a bit seeing as tenacity was one of my favorite gear slots in splatoon 1
Quick correction: As pointed out by @felixfraser-krauss669 , Comeback actually gives 60 AP (10 AP of each ability) instead of 72AP. I was using outdated info from splatoon 1... oops
A way to make tenacity useful would be to make it a backline come-back.
When teammates dies, you get a certain amount of various abilities that progresively increase the more teammates are dead.
The effects disappear and reset when you die or when all teammates are alive for 7 seconds.
Interesting… Now I'm thinking of like a reverse comeback - where the abilities that gets buffed are also the mobility, ink-saving & special charge-up ones, except it activates when teammates are dead. I think not only backlines would benefit - frontliners too. Whether teammates are dead in front or behind you, you get to have faster feet to escape & anchor at a safer space until teammates are back.
Would that kinda ability become a problem? Is it too weak? I think even if it's weak for competitive, if there's a way to still make it useful/fun for solo q somehow, that's still fair. Like aerospray & clash.
I'm not sure what kinda new concepts Akira thought of that makes Tenacity too strong or too weak, kinda curious.
To add to this idea, if only one teammate is dead, then the backliner with tenacity will get 3 AP of Quick Super Jump, Ink Saver Main, Ink Saver Sub, Sub Resistance, Special Charge Up, and Special Power Up (total of 18 AP), but if two teammates are dead, this effect will increase to 7 AP of each ability (total of 42 AP), and if 3 teammates are dead, 13 AP of each ability (total of 78 AP).
@@strawberrymilk607 it should be 6 instead of 7 because 7 would make a unique number of AP that is only accessible through that ability. And to balance that, I would add Ink resistance in your selection of abilities that tenacity gives.
With that rework, tenacity could work with QR comps, since teammates will keep on dying and increase the number of AP.
It can start weak with 6 AP (2 subs) of come-back abilities (plus QSJ and Ink Res) and increase by 3 AP (1 sub) per additional teammate death.
It will cap at 36 AP (9 subs) of each ability and will be balanced by slowly increasing the effects and loosing all of them when you die or hold advantage.
@@jjQlLlLq Since the effects dissipates and reset when you die, it will only be useful on backlines, supports and skirmishers that stay alive.
It will work the best on splatlings, brellas, Dualy squelshers, Bamboo and Sloshing machine.
Because of these limitations, you can only have one tenacity per comp and you can't use QR with it.
Punishing the player by not playing the game is always a bad game design
I used to use tenacity in Splatoon 2 because disconnects were frequent in that game, and so if my team had a disconnect, my special charge would be constantly going up. Definitely helped me win a lot of games we wouldn’t have otherwise won 3v4.
Hey, she's pretty good!
I still get DCs in 3, so when I use my Tenacity gearset and a DC happens after 30 seconds of the match starting, I constantly gain Specials passively. And as a backline-user, they can turn the game around when used correctly.
I think I found a way to fix tenacity without changing the core identity of the ability! Instead of a passive special charge while your team is dead, you get a fixed amount of special charge when someone on your team dies. Maybe something like 20 points.
Maybe Tenacity needs to add a bit of special saver (if you get splatted while outnumbered), bomb defense up (hold on while teammates respawn), and some ink resistance (to help mobility while under pressure) to it's suite of effects?
I really think that Tenacity, alongside Respawn Punisher and Stealth Jump, needs to be replaced. The former two because they promote unhealthy play or are impossible to healthily balance, and the last one because it’s so popular that it really should become a core mechanic of Super Jump.
Well yeah Stealth Jump is popular because then Anchor Weapons can’t camp your super jump unless they are right on top of it.
@slyllamademon2652 I know, I’m saying that it should become a default effect of Super Jumps so that you can use that shoe slot on something else but not lose the effect. I think it should become a mechanic and not a gear ability because it’s so popular and good for the game, then have its old ability slot be filled by something new.
do you not realize how broken that would make the game if stealth jump was default w out any ability equipped 💀 make it makes sense
I disagree and think a better way to do it would be instead to remove jump roller and make that base kit instead since it still allows you to punish players making reckless super jumps while also allowing some counterplay but 'nerf' stealth jump by making equipping it take away that basekit roll in exchange for hiding your jump point from distant foes like it has always done, this base kit roll would make duelies stronger so it isn't a fool proof idea, but I still think it would be better than removing stealth jump altogether.
With the idea of QR and Tenacity being abilities everyone has instead of gear abilities, this reminded me of another idea I had a while back: having respawn times be determined by how many players are on a team.
Similar to how the respawn times for Attackers in Tri-Color and during the Dual of the Dynamic Duos challenge are shorter, because the teams only have 2 players, what if only having 3 players on a team lowered that team's respawn times by give or take 2 seconds? And same deal for 2 or even 1 player teams, with the time removed adjusted accordingly (I know this would mainly apply to private battles, or the rare match that goes horribly wrong, but I think it would be nice.)
A fantastic video! Just wanted to add a correction for 5:30 that Comeback only gives 60AP of abilities nowadays, It did give 72AP in Splatoon 1 but was nerfed in 3.0 of Splatoon 2 to give 10 AP per ability instead of 12AP
Imo tenacity can be saved. If the actual effects of the ability were meaningful, it would be useful for backlines, supports, and other weapons that don’t die too often, even if the ability itself isn’t active for that long due to cooler/QR/the inherent nature of the ability. If its effect was just as strong as something like comeback, there would be comps that would find a use for it, even with cooler. The problem is that it’s not as strong as comeback or LDE or really anything else, it only has passive special charge and even that does practically nothing in the grand scheme of things. I think that if they made it into a version of comeback designed for non-aggressive weapons, it could work. Buff the effects of the ability to compensate for it not being active that long (especially with cooler), and make it have more than just SCU to make sure it doesn’t promote passive special spamming too much. Would not be opposed to receiving the exact same buffs as comeback across many abilities in order to make the ability worth it. Just as comeback is pretty widely run by weapons that die a lot, I can envision a world where tenacity is in the same state, only for weapons that don’t die a lot. They really just need to expand it to be more on par with the only headgear exclusive abilities in terms of sheer power level (preferably by giving more than just passive special charge).
Tenacity could be saved by gaining a non-special charge ability relayed to its play style. I think it could be an interesting anchor option if it gave 10 AP of Quick Super Jump to teammates that jump to the user from spawn.
video subject aside u are goated on brush
My school has a splatoon team where due to schedule conflicts, we're sometimes forced into 3v4s to have a chance of picking up rounds. Our three most available all run tenacity in that situation. We call ourselves the Tenacity Trio
I used bard R on mid tower just before rift herald hit it and my team thought I was epic
That sounds incredibly epic! I expect no less from THE sigilmassasaurus, Epic league of legends support player
This is the first video I’ve seen of yours because it was in my recommended feed, but it’s already incredible! I love hearing what others say about different topics in this game and I’ve always never been a fan of Tenacity. It should really be thrown out for something new in a future game. Congrats on 1K subs! Your channel feels super underrated right now so I hoping for a big blow-up someday!
I always just assumed Tenacity was an ability mainly used by backlines since they typically stay alive when the rest of the team does not, so they get the most value out of it throughout a match, but maybe that's just a splatoon 1, or Solo Queue kind of mindset
It still is. you need to be alive for tenacity to activate on you so its best users still are weapons like bows, splattlings, chargers and the likes
@@onewingedakira Ok, then I am totally fine as a Solo Queue backline player. 😁
The only thing I don't know is, helps special charge to get more points, if the points came from the goal and not from painting the ground? In Tower Control you get points, when you push the tower as example.
I’m considering using it because of the frequency that my teammates die at. It’s not uncommon to have multiple teammates with 10+ deaths so for solo queue it seems totally worth it for back and midline weapons.
Wanted to use Tenacity anyways for a laugh? We had a tool for that; it was called:
*RETREATING AND PAINTING FOR SPECIAL.*
Jokes aside, Tenacity isn't just fundamentally flawed by gear abilities & Cooler alone. The mere existence of playing the game & backing up when you're at a disadvantage already has doomed the ability to fail.
@@DragaliaIsLost LDE has the same purpose and it works.
"Good teammates don't die," proceeds to go 12-17, bruh.🤣🙏😭
Random rework idea, that seems cool.
Players jumping to you have a few points (like maybe 5) of quick super jump, and gain a short buff when they jump to you (like 5 ap of swim and run) for 4 seconds. It would turn a player into a weird beacon. Speaking which, beacon could get that second part as a buff. Not sure how good this would be or anything, but it’s an idea.
I think if tenacity gave mobility perks instead of passive special charge it would be a lot more interesting
Consider:
Tenacity - Headgear ability
If more than one enemy player damage you within a few seconds of eachother, gain X amount of spec charge up for Y seconds or until fully healed.
Idk if it's been fixed, but during the splatoon 3 demo, tenacity would always activate when attacking on tricolor turf war, which was pretty sweet
Random thought. Since Tenacity plays for your special and passively charges depending on how many is splatted on your team, give it special saver in case you get splatted as well. 1 main of special saver depending on how many is splatted on your team relative to the opposing
It's totally savable, it just needs some reworks.
Easiest thing would be to alter the condition from "number of teammates down" to "number of teammates got splatted in the last X seconds".
This removes the problem with quick respawn, since the time difference no longer matters. Teammate dies = 5 sp points. No strings attached.
Besides that, just give it any other trait except Special Charge. Be it Swim Speed, Intensify Action, Ink Saver Main/Sub, Ink/Sub Resistance...ANYTHING that helps you win the fight in a pinch. Its called "tenacity" after all, so why does it grant something that only helps when you run away or are like 2% off from getting your special anyway? It should at least come with Special Saver so in case you die, you don't lose all the special points that you just gathered.
Alternatively, we go in a different direction and make it a side grade to Comeback.
Based on the number of splatted teammates in the last 10 seconds, it grands buffs to help you catch up and regroup faster after you eventually die as well.
Special Saver, Quick Respawn, Quick Super Jump, Run/Swim Speed.
The worse the situation, the faster you come back.
3:08 I think Object Shredder is also a counterpick ability in any mode outside Rainmaker. If your opponents have no objects on their team, it's completely useless. The viability of OS heavily depends on what specials (and weapons, to a degree) are meta
HARD rework for Splat 4
Tenacity has the same amount of passive charge, It low lasts for 2 seconds after your ally has respawned.
in addition. If your team is down players when you die, you get increased Special Saver based on the team difference.
While the Passive build rate is active you gain Special power up.
Tenacity also requires you to be able to stall the other team at player disadvantage to be effective, be it in neutral or with the special that Tenacity charges. Splatoon 3 is not particularly conducive to stall of any kind, even without Cooler the meta's brute force entry tools are stronger than universal defensive tools, seemingly by design.
In Splatoon 1 Tenacity was actually a decent choice for backliners that weren't terminally addicted to Damage Up (though LDE/OG didn't exactly function back then), and even in 2 it was still useful for select weapons with poor paint but high survivability. In 3, the only survivable thing is Snipewriter, and Snipewriter kills the entire idea of Tenacity by being a paint god tossing out instant respawns to teammates.
If I was reworking Tenacity into something worthwhile, I'd scrap the special charge mechanic altogether and give literally any other set of abilities as its effect. It all works. Both speed and efficiency in any proportion would do great to dampen the effect of being down a teammate by letting you do more things in a given amount of time, while stuff like ink res + QSJ would make you slipperier and thus more survivable instead. A funny idea would be a bit of QR as a Tenacity effect, making you match teammates' respawn schedule instead of staggering it and thus letting you either go for broke or cut the losses more easily in such a situation. On top of that, I would extend the effect timer for 3-4 seconds after teammate's respawn, since that's about how long it'll take for them to get back in action after the respawn.
They should rework tenacity to just be when your team goes down, so if it ends up being a 1v1 because everyone else is dead, you can have an edge.
I also think the devs should add abilities. At max effect, it should be 3 mains of ink resistance, 3 mains of intensify action, 3 mains of quick super jump, 3 mains od special power up, and 3 mains of special saver. And let it keep the passive special charge. This will support the several playstyles a player might do when stuck in a situation as well as reward the player for being able to stay alive the longest. I could imagine this working with backlines or certain sharking weapons.
One cool idea with Tenacity is make it similar to Last Ditch Effort in its prerequisite.
Whenever your team is losing, you get a little bit of passive Special charge.
Maybe 1 point per point you’re losing by, or in Turf War 1 point per .1% you’re losing by. Every, I don’t know, 5 seconds?
This would stack on top of the passive charge you get during ranked modes.
I could definitely see Tenacity getting a buff where you have an additional main of special saver and special power up for each team mate that is down. Then it could be viable for backliners who, if they do die, it's probably after their team has gone down and they're being rushed. So they'd still get some kind of benefit more consistantly. - either they have a full special meter so they get more power, or if they don't, they lose less special if they do go down.
Still wouldn't be better than LDE, but it would have a benefit over special charge up this way. And backliners don't want to run comeback anyway as they shouldn't expect to go down as often. Only real problem is the benefit would only be to backliners that just want to output more specials.... and we already have one of those dominating the meta... that is already get special charge up limits put on it in tournaments...
itd be real impactful if you got charged immediately depending on how many teammates go down. imagine whenever you’re minus 1 player you immediately get 25% of your meter… you might even thank them for going down at certain times
i think it could be saved as an mpu replacement, an option for the final player standing to “lock the f*** in” and clutch up. i could see a backline being overwhelmed when their tenacity activates, allowing them to charge up lethal blows faster than they would be able to otherwise, hitting multiple shots in a row, saving a game that would snowball into a loss otherwise. thoughts?
Great video! You deserve more subs
Spotting myself in an akira vid, thats crazy
Did you get dunked on?
No way! Where????
tenacity rework idea: when 1 of you teammates die, the rest of you team gains a ink res, bomb def and 20% of special charge bar, but this cant stack.
what if tenacity also had a special saver effect where if you get splatted you get progressively less special charge loss with each additional player who has not yet respawned.
I like the idea of making tenacity just an inverted comeback, where it just grants abilities while active instead of actively putting points in the meter.
Though… Abilities in general just need to be reworked, I think. Beyond the balance and implementation of many abilities being terrible, I think the way they’re obtained and used also needs big tweaks. Abilities are too important, they’re more a knowledge check than a source of customization. Like Stealth Jump and value subs, or the mountain of bad and niche abilities (Running Speed or Intensify Action on Splatanas for example).
Maybe a system where you get one unique ability, two “mains,” three “subs” and no dupes would work? And cut/merge a bunch of abilities… Merge RS and IA, SPU OS and BPU, the ink savers and recovery, bake in Stealth Jump, remove Special Charge… And then rebalance from there of course.
Tenacity should be basekit soo that players (mainly in turf) who could be susceptible to spawn camping could have a smaller chance of trying to get a special.
also change it to something like Rally : being close to a teammate allows you to charge up special with the same numbers of tenacity. It makes it able to work longer than a teammates death and tries to allow teamwork or multi shooter spam, which has a losing MU to rollers and blasters
Tenacity should be folded into either Last Ditch Effort or Comeback. It’s useless on it’s own, but if it’s combined with either of those two into a single ability, it would definitely be an improvement.
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I have an idea for a Tenacity rework that is... probably not very balanced if I'm being honest, but I do feel like it'd be very funny so I'm sharing anyway:
What if instead of passive special charge while teammates were dead, it was reworked to give you a stacking buff to special charge up _and_ special power up? Specifically, the first time a teammate dies, you get +7 points of both abilities, immediately putting it almost on par with special charge up. A second death adds +6 points, putting you up to 13. Then +5, +4 and so on up to a max of 28 points of special charge + special power that doesn't go away when teammates respawn. The catch? You lose all these buffs the next time you die, _and_ the next time you use your special. So you get to charge up and fire off this superpowered special, but if you're aiming to spam special you'll get far less out of the ability than a playstyle that uses them strategically. Additionally, the risk of dying with special is even higher with this ability, making you a juicy target for the other team to take down.
One last thing: if teammates are still dead when you respawn, you'll also get a stack of this buff, but only until they respawn as well at which point it goes away (you only get to keep the buff if they die while you're still alive). Unless you're in a situation with a disconnect, in which case you just get one stack permanently and always start at +7.
Edit: I just remembered that cooler exists and is basically by far the strongest special with special power up, and so this version of Tenacity would synergize with it so well that everyone would just have permanent tacticooler. So uh... maybe like cooler deaths don't count for this? I dunno it's easier to imagine this ability working in a world without cooler lol
It should fill the special charge when dead as well or may teammates get some as well with a lower effect when multiple people have it
Why not just give Tenacity the same benefits as Last Ditch Effort?
Turf War: +20% passive charge when "Danger!" is over your team.
Splat Zones: +20% passive charge when enemy team is in the lead and not under any penalties.
Tower Control: +5% passive charge for every enemy on the tower, while enemy team is in the lead.
Rainmaker: +20% passive charge if your opposing team broke through your check point and you haven't theirs.
Clam Blitz: Like Splat Zones, +20% passive charge when your basket is broken and the enemy team has no penalties.
If only Tenacity didn't care about number of active enemies and activated solely depending on number of teammates alive it will be quite stronger. Not sure if it will be enough to consider running it but still much better than what we have now.
Give it the comeback effect.
Ayy an Inkbrush main
ngl i saw my fav boss and it caught my eye
I run tenacity because theres a good chance someone on either team is going to disconnect so if its on my team. At least i get something out of it
Correct me if im wrong but u even get special charge up automatically depending on mode and if u have lead or are behind. So tenacity even gets beaten by ingame mechanic which isnt gear dependant at all.
maybe make it charge while you are dead also. making it a mix of special charge and special saver
Idea: What they could do to fix Tenacity is make it an ability that BUFFS you with run/swim or hell maybe even dmg up when allies are somewhat/all dead. An ability like that would be interesting and allow for it to be more combat focused rather than special spammy. I think making it easier to hold down the fort when you wipe would be an interesting ability.
i still like running it with vunder
i don't know why but since I manage to play around the shield and survive more things than I probably should, it feels like I get more value from it
What if Tenacity also made allies jump to you faster, though?I I think playing into the whole Objective: Survive thing could be neat.
Tenacity should be removed and turned into an ability only active when your team has a dc. That way, the team has a better chance of winning the match despite being down a player.
I believe there are more interesting abilities we could pursue over keeping tenacity, plus removing flawed abilities prevents newer players from building gear that hinders them.
Bakugan
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Brawl
Why not just make it a direct small to moderate bump to special charge if an ally gets splatted? Something like 10-20 points maybe?
yeah tenacity only has a decent niche in a world without tacticooler.
on the topic of no reason to droop tacticooler for tenacity what if you run tenacity with tentacooler? couldn’t that help the situation there?
also this sucks a bit seeing as tenacity was one of my favorite gear slots in splatoon 1
tenacity is only good if your paired up with dualies/other weapons that have a run-in-and-die playstyle e.g tetras run near full qr
It has a use when you... 2:26 ... oh ok.
I see other saying to buff Tenacity, but Im gonna be honest here. I think the ability should be replaced with something else.
Yo
Hi
It's almost like Splatoon 3 is a terribly designed extremely unbalanced game
dumb idea from soneone who doesnt play splatoon:
what if tenacity was based on ink coverage instead of missing allies?