You forgot to mention when Barriston said to Ned that he saw him "cut down a dozen good knights at the Trident" That would indicate that Ned must have been at least competent enough to defeat multiple knights without getting injured.
Yes, I believe Ned is more than a competen warrior, if he is no so "impresive" is because he was surrounded by the best fighters in the continten Imagine that you are a pretty smart and competent scientist but you are in the middle of that picture of Solvay conferences, that image with Einstein, Curie, Schrödinger and many others
Dont sleep on Ned. He followed the Art of War. He either postioned his forces to be able to win, as in the battle of the bells, the trident, or on pyke, or he positioned them so there need not be a battle, such as storms end, the throne room, and bear island. And the instructions he gave Catylen to prepare the north for war were also very good. Too bad he didnt understand liars as well as war.
He was never supposed to be Warden of the North, so it was better for him to learn to be a commander, also Northern people didn't go South a lot, so he didn't have much political experience outside of the North.
@@bolt7047 Mhm. If he was trained and taught to be the heir, he might've survived past the first season, if he was as skilled as he was as a commander even then.
@@imperiousrex128 don't know.. Just look, how poorly and stupid Brandon Stark acted towards his own people (Dustin for example) and especially when he went to Kings Landing, threatened to kill Rhaegar (who wasn't even there at the time) instead of trying to solve the situation in a different way! And he was raised to be the heir and warden of the north...
Ned died because they exploited his weak points, innocent kids and his family. Catelyn told him to trust Littlefinger so his investigation was doomed from the very beggining, he told Cersei about the incest to save Tommen and Myrcella and Arya and Sansa brought the last nail to his coffin.
Most likely a good commander , napoleon is top 3 in history as far I concerned he never fought himself,,, not every commander has to be Alexander the great .
I think Ned still had to have been a better swordsman than you’re making him out to be here. The three kings guard were probably the most skilled fighters in the seven kingdoms at that point alongside barristen selmy, Jaime Lannister, and Robert Baratheon. Given the hype surrounding those ladder three, it feels like they would have no problems dispatching 7 northern lords despite being outnumbered, so the fact that Ned and co. were actually able to come out on top should be a decently ranked accomplishment.
@@eurongreyjoy1008 yeah true since the current best northern fighters would of been someone like great jon umber , I think they would have to be around his level , but I don’t actually remember if they specified the best northern fighters or if it was other high northern lords
Nah, winning 3 v 7 is still not a great feat. Ned didn’t just came out on top of his 3v7, he states many time he would have died if it wasn’t for howland reed. Essentially, he simply got lucky. Arthur Dayne was going to slaughter them all. So how then can I really give credit to Ned for that win? Rather praise his luck than his talent to have survived that day.
“He was the better commander” Yeah I’d hope a good commander wouldn’t show up at a notoriously violent king’s castle with a retinue demanding retribution
I think you’re selling Ned short saying that coming out alive against the kingsguard is basically nothing. Even if Reed saved him in the final second of the fight, managing to stay on his feet for the rest of the engagement indicates he was very skilled, given he was up against the finest swordsman of his generation and two other elite kingsguard.
@@MadristaSisamdon't know, if that really matters... 7 swordsmen vs 3 swordsmen shouldn't really be a discussion! Especially when there are several trained fighters in the 7 group. Ned, Glover, Ryswell, Reed...
@@Cussy69_420 You are underestimateing the 3 knightsmen. They were easily top 6 of westeros while we arent even sure the 7 northmen were top 7 in the North
I think perhaps the reason we know so little of Ned's role in the battles he fought is that Ned was a modest man. He rarely spoke of fighting, unlike Robert who loved to tell the tales of his victories.
I want a spin off of Roberts rebellion. I pretty sure there was gonna be one but it got cancelled. Something like this would clarify so much in the lore of GOT
A series would work but the budget would be too expensive but a movie trilogy might work like: first is all about the big tourney then the second is about the rebellion, the third is the battle between a stag warrior vs prince dragon.
@@bcshooterfmjprime7540 grrm said no robert rebellion spin off i don't know why he is against it what i wouldn't like to see is a show about the long night it will just ruin the mistery srounding it
They did Ser Arthur Dayne and Ser Gerold Hightower a massive disservice in Game of Thrones. We did at least get to see the skill of the former but killing them so fast cheapens their reputation as 2 of the greatest knights in the seven kingdoms. Should have stretched that scene out more at the very least.
I think during the rebellions, ned and jaime would have been far closer in skill than when they clash in kings landing. At that time, Ned was a battle hardened warrior as was Jaime. When they clash in Kings landing, Ned has been the lord of winterfell for 15 years, and Jaime was a kings guard knight who spent much of his time training and competing in tournament's.
Best characters Rhaegar and Ned? Best on what traits? One is either a pedophilic or a mad man the other a big fool who let his family suffer for his stupidity.
@@jetla7485 well in books it was said Lyanna was only 14 when Rhaegar took her. It's not confirmed that Rhaegar and Lyanna even loved each other and I don't think they did but the more I read books the more I believe in R+L=J so with that being said Rhaegar is a either a pedo or a mad rapist who was obsessed with prophecies.
Ned Stark is an exceptional commander - GG Martin ....he talked very highly on ned's tactical and strategical abilities ...Robert mentioned that ned and jon arren were the real ones who won the battle of trident ..excellent video good work
I think one of the best of them all " those who have swords and know how to use them but choose not too" Having the wisdom as a commander to win every battle with little casualties and not only survive but often times not even fight in the first place makes him one of the top dogs in my book
I think maybe GRRM doesn't show off Ned's abilities/past victories on purpose. Ned is a humble, stoic, and loyal man. A man with these qualities would not boast about himself as Robert or Brandon did. Just because some characters are cocky and loud does not mean they are all they talk themselves up to be, nor does it mean the Quiet Wolf wasn't just as great a fighter as them. I guess we may never know, but i think it boils down to is being a show off does not equal superiority.
Like your work, man, but I must say that this video seems to sell Ned VERY short. Ned was known to be a great warrior based on first hand observation. He performed well during the Greyjoy Rebellion and is said to have singlehandedly killed 12 knights at the Trident. Ned was well above average and was probably Kings Guard level - not the best of the Kings Guard, but middle of that pack. Elite.
9 years since the Rebellion and where we know Ned today, most likely 9 years not spent training and drilling sword play but ruling and governing, loss of skill is only logical
You also could have mentioned how Sansa recalls that Bronze Yohn Royce beat him and Winterfells master at arms one after the other in the training yard
Ned is a gorgeous example of the charm that a mediocre person can have, he's not that charming, not that skilled, not that charismatic, but to all the ppl that know him he is the best
@@jl9554 Ned was too honourable to do that, he even gave Cersei a chance to flee with her children before he intended to tell Robert about her incest with Jamie but well we all know what happened next..
When I think of Bed I think he knew he'd never be his brother or Robert. I also think he chose this cause he saw the flaws in their devotion to more physical means of solving disputes. That being said he didn't survive 2 great wars on his mind alone. Like his father said "do your best not to get into fights, but if you must fight...Win." That's how I see him, a dutiful thinker who just wants a quiet life. But above all else is a family man, and father's can do things far beyond their skill in the protection of them.
I disagree before Arthur dayne he killed another kingsguard Hightower I believe. Also ned killed plenty not as good as Jamie but in his league and he commanded army's he was a general a strategist Robert was in the vanguard ned commanded the army's ned fought duels with people who didn't surrender. Jousts are not a test of best fighters , melee is but man to man on foot is different
I just don't think we should use tournaments to scale skills, the only thing we know about Brandom in terms of fighting is that he almost killed Petyr Baelish. Same to Rhaegal, besides tournaments his only known fight was against Robert in the Trident. We might be able to scale Ned's skills after the events in the joy tower are completely revealed.
For example if you did a tournament for 100 days and each time you come top 2 you get points ,Loras tyrell might win the whole thing cause as Jaime says “jousting is 3/4 horsemen ship , and he’s compotent enough to hold his own with a sword”
I think I agree with your placement of his skill as a warrior. I do, however, think he was probably one of the best field commanders of his generation. Robb’s skill in that area at so young an age suggests he was mentored by a first rate general, and Ned would have been the one doing this.
I like Ned he fought when he had to fight and really didn't care for violence. But he was a boy scout with notions about honor and it got him killed, in a different time period where men were more honorable he would've thrived, had he been a little bit more cutthroat like tywin or olenna he would've survived a little bit longer in the Game of Thrones.
Well the Starks are great rulers in the North. The northerners value loyalty, honesty, sacriface and honor, and the Starks excel at that. If the North was full of schemers and turncoats, they would never survive their brutal winters. So someone from that kind of enviorment could never survive the snake pit that is Kings Landing. And Eddard new that. This is why he was reluctant to accept the King's hand position and rearly ventured south of the Neck. He knew his world view and the world view of the North did not match with the one in the south. But he accepted the position to investigate a murder of his father figure and to protect his best friend- again displaying those Stark traits. So I do not see him as some boy scout type of character, to me he is a tragic character that tried to do the right thing- even if he knew it was not a smart thing to do- so much, that he was ready to give his life and the lives of his family for it- and we all know how much he loved his family.
I don't know about Ned's swordsmanship, but he must have been a brilliant mind in tactics. His children all possess some form of excellence in leadership and strategy. They must have learned from one of the best. Too bad he was too honorable for his own good.
I think Ned is better than we give him credit for as he's basically always giving himself a handicap with his honour. Had he seen jaime throw bran out the window though... well lets just say jaime wouldn't have made it past the next episode, at least i dont think so.
Anyone who hangs around Robert Baratheon that much pretty much has to be a really good fighter. I assume all that Ned and Robert did for years was train. If Ned was trash then Robert would have noticed right away and never respected Ned as much as he did. That’s my thoughts on it anyway.
I agree but at the same time they were childhood friends-it’s not like Robert chose him bc of his fighting they were just really close already-basically brothers
In the TV series Ned fought well against Ser Arthur Dayne and Jaime Lannister both regarded as the best of their era. Ned is a determined fighter with decent skill, he was eventually disarmed against a fully armoured Ser Arthur Dayne who had 2 swords but he put a good show in before that against someone far better than him. Most of his skill was in politics having the North back him and being close allies with King Robert.
Its become a bit of a popular trope among 'book' loyalists to constantly point out 'ned was never portrayed to be that good of a fighter'. Having read the books and watched the show, this is something that erks me. Firstly, ned wields a greatsword. To wield a greatsword even mildly effectively you have to be a monster of a man. Second, as you eluded to in this video, ned survived battles without taking any injuries. DO YOU KNOW HOW UNBELIEVABLY DIFFICULT THAT IS. Saying ned survived a battle without taking injury but didnt distinguish himself shows a massive gap in understanding of what a battle is actually like. Ned never valued killing, it was a duty. He never bragged about it or saught it. Robert wanted any excuse to fight and saw it as the ultimate glory. Ned might not have been the greatest swordsman in the realm but he was a damn good fighter and a complete beast of a man
I agree that Ned was never on the level of Dayne or Jaime, but I hate the idea that he was merely better than average. By the end of the rebellion, he would have had more battle experience than Brandon, both in command and combat. Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't he also have more experience than Jaime? GRRM basically says that the Dayne and Jaime were the best, but I think Ned was closer to them than he was to an average fighter. The fact that he doesn't like violence or showing off in tournaments like Brandon is not a weakness. Ned's strength seems like it was intentionally left ambiguous, and I see a lot of people assume this means he was nothing special, but I don't that is necessarily a valid assumption.
@@someguy-bv3il when he was younger he did at the trident according to baristan selmy , “slaying 12 knights by yourself” that’s way better than what someone barely above average could do , that’s damn near kings guard level , But Ned’s respect does come from his generalship , it’s like Randyl Tarley, he gained respect because he beat Robert in a battle with their armies not in single combat
Can u imagine if they do roberts rebellion and we see how close Ned was to those 6 men that came with him to the tower of joy and we see them survive all the great battles of the war and fight side by side with Ned all the way up to when they arrive in dorn. Seeing all his friends die except for reed would be heart breaking.
Ned's not dumb...period..! Show Ned didn't give justice on how brilliant of a tactician he was making use of what little resources he had down south. His strategy prior to making open war with the Lannisters were very sound till his great wife of a Tully screwed everything for him
I don't know how skilled Ned would be in a one on one honor fight and I think that is a deliberate part of his character. Jamie is a preening peacock who views sword play as a game and a point of pride and boast. Ned is not a knight, he is a serious man from a harsh land where death comes for you quickly enough without brawling with drunks over hurt feelings. If he were not a man you could trust in a fight Robert would not have been his friend for long. I'm not saying he was an amazing fighter, but just because no living person willing to talk has witnessed you killing doesn't mean you haven't done any. Mormont saw him in a fight and decided to leave the continent instead of facing him. Whether it was for fear of his life or having too much respect for Ned and too much shame for his crime to fight him isn't that important, either way it says quite a bit. Jamie was given his spot on the kings guard out of spite for his father, and he was a boy who was now surrounded by the legendary fighters he grew up admiring. I doubt he ever had any real idea about how he stacked up against these men who were obligated to keep him alive. Arrogance and immaturity are not ingredients for a great warrior, at least in the show he seemed to learn some humility and responsibility eventually.
Ned being evenly matched with Jaime in the show was more of a honor to the actor than anything. He was one of the big draws for the show and did a great job kicking the series off. It would’ve been disappointing seeing Sean get beaten in a fight so early. Rewatching the seasons it’s honestly unreal that he was in Season one, just feels like great to watch him in that role.
Balon Greyjoy is literally the stupidest character in GOT. The first rebellion was what it was, he got a little ahead of himself and not only lost all of his sons except Theon, but also probably damaged the Iron Islands economy and military. The second rebellion though and his declaration as king completely lacked any sense. Also, why did he attack the Tully/Stark alliance instead of the Lannister/Tyrell alliance? Combined the lands of the Reach and the Westerlands were way more economically profitable to pillage or takeover than the more remote North. Euron definitely should have gotten the salt throne over this dumbass, at least he had the sense in the show to make an alliance with the Lannister’s. (I haven’t caught up with the books as I’m on book 1 right now, so I don’t know what book Euron does or has done yet.)
@@moneymayweathera Not even fucking close. And Rhaegar was never psrticularly cruel or sadistic. (The ambiguous circusmtances of Lyanna's "kidnapping" ehich may or may not have been voluntary, are still a matter of debate). And everyone except Robert remembers Rhaegar as a kind, gentle and honourable prince.
Lol I feel like when people talk about Arthur Dayne, they always mention How he can slay 5 people alone...... So add 2 other extremely talented knights they should've easily dispatched Ned and his men...... But they didn't, and I'm truly bummed out that Martin hasn't been clearer on that because it's disrespectful to think Ned Stark wasn't an above average swordsman.
I always thought of Ned as a great commander, not a swordsman. Good warrior, but not great like some others, as he did not even enjoy fighting. It was more of a duty for him, but a duty done well. Kind of like Randyll Tarly, who is described as a great soldier and commander, yet not uses his valyrian sword in combat that often.
I think if Ned grew up to be wise and brutishly strong, like the lovechild of Mountain and Viper, he would wield The Ice on the battlefield. What a vehemently putrid sight for his enemies. Psychological apprehension of the highest order. Ned would be called an elite even without fighting.
Barriston Selmy said to Ned " Your too modest I seen you cut down a dozen great knights ". That was in season 1 Ep. 5 The Wolf and the Lion. He killed Gerold Hightower before Arthur Dayne at the Tower of Joy. So Eddard Stark is no slouch.
lets keep it real. no way ned is beating even an old white bull. this show scene was illogical the white bull wouldlnt be too young and he is the lord commander why he dont even speak?? they just throw another dude there with dayne
Seems that Ned had the respect of his peers and would have trained with them. You touched on it early on. Brandon and Robert were guys that he most likely trained along with during his youth and beyond, so my assumption is that he was at worst at least competent enough to hold his own with them. Perhaps 2nd tier, but competent. Also, as stated by other comments, his "job" wasn't to necessarily have to fight as a soldier/warrior, but rather to be a commander leading armies. I honestly think, if Ned was watching this clip, he would laugh at the notion of ranking his skills. He obviously had no interest in joisting or other "swinging dick" type actions. That was Robert's personality.
I also think it's a bit hard to assess the skill of the soldiers of the past, because people tend to remember the dead - especially the ones they like - with an almost legendary status that not necessarilly correponds to the truth.. We hear from Ser Arthur Dayne, for exemple, from Jayme Lannister - who was knighted by him - and from Ned Stark - who has very fond memories of the man, and, as you noted yourself, wasn't as skilled as people think. Was Arthur as invincible as people think? Even Jayme, who lost his hand and his skill with the sword, still makes men terrified, even if they should know that, by logic, they can, now take him on. Ser Beric Dondarrion is remembered as a great knight, but he lost countless times and was just lucky that he had someone to ressurect him... Idk, I think it's kinda pointless to speculate on these things. In the end, the myth about these men will always be bigger than themselves. Also, we know from stories like Ser Jorah that sometimes an inferior knight with a boost of confidence can perform better than his normal, and, as any professional player can tell you, consistency is more important than one time feats.
As much as what you’re saying is true, there’s also a log of the feats of these kingsguard that’s not going to be bullshitted...also beric’s group had some elite fighters there and it was very mysterious bc if you speculate “beric’s group killed brienne and the hound” then yeah it seems pretty obvious...not to mention you can have accounts of people who have fought these people in tourneys who know how good they are and people can see it in person
I agree...I think he’s a solid tier below Selmy/Dayne...but in that tourney it was in melee, not horsed combat where Robert might have just smashed him in one blow with his hammer
I also think Neds fighting capabilities were probably nothing to write home about. Because there was never much talk about it before he got his hero status and was just a second born son. And that's odd because being a competent warrior would have been a very viable "career path" for him before he became Lord of Winterfell. I also don't think Rhaegar was necessarily any good at fighting beyond looking good in tournaments. While he won, those were competitions where everyone would be very interested in sucking up to the royal family. And no one wanted to be the one who cut the crown prince's face in half. So every contest he was in would have been super orderly and by the book with points awarded after. And you know he would be the kind of person who was totally nerding for points.
I think Ned is a lot better than appears but he is more the general than the warrior. Ned was never someone to seek glory. He would train but not boost of prowess. I think there are subtle hints at his ability like how Robert while riding with him wanted to have some fun and ride how they “used to” which implies he was a good horse rider. Ned was able to travel by himself through enemy territory from Targaryen supporters through the vale which sure he acquired some help but went through unscathed.
I think Eddard skill could be spotted both on the traits of Jon snow amd Robb stark. Robb being the firstborn it would make sense that he was trained by Ned to rule, command and keep the north unified. He was smart enough no not take the bait on dueling Jaime after the battle of the whispering woods but still managed to pull out victories, his sole Great mistake was breaking his oath and marry a nurse. With jon snow its the same thou at first he was hateful of being a peasant in the wall, he eventually started training and helping his fellow watchers. Eventually he grew to have the title of being a great fighter as well.
I think Dayne, Hightower & Whent were sent to the wall Arthur Dayne is Mance Rayder, Gerold Hightower is Tormund Giantsbane and Corryn Halfhand is Lord Whent. Look at how when Mance was Glamored as the Lord of Bones he whipped Jon Snow's (one of the best swordsman in 7Kingdoms) ass
But thought people were better men than they actually were. He should of known that people are not as honorable as himself. For him not to know The Lannister's were going to do anything to keep their incest secret, was his mortal blunder. He should of known that Renley was his only friend in King's Landing. He knew Littlefinger bankrupted the realm, since he knew the confers were overflowing when they took the capital. LF also loved his wife, another reason to not trust him. If he goes with Renley, he lives, and this whole story greatly changes
Your wrong about tower of joy , not about the skills part 3 kingsguard against seven lords is a fair fight and ned gave Howland the credit the stories are Chinese whispers
Did ned overreact to Jamie sitting on Roberts throne? No not if you read grrm original outline Jamie was guna kill everyone in his way to sit on that throne but in George's true gardner style the seed was planted but never blossomed
Where would Jon snow fall in the comparison with the greatest knights in Westeros ?? .....would love to see all his battles, though there are not many when we look in the books .....but can we asses it through the show???
My theory is how land reed warged into Arthur dayne to save Ned and that’s why he can’t talk about it, he would be killed for being a warg and it was a dishonorable way for Arthur dayne to die
You forgot to mention when Barriston said to Ned that he saw him "cut down a dozen good knights at the Trident" That would indicate that Ned must have been at least competent enough to defeat multiple knights without getting injured.
They were probably trained or at least drilled by Barriston as well.
Yes, I believe Ned is more than a competen warrior, if he is no so "impresive" is because he was surrounded by the best fighters in the continten
Imagine that you are a pretty smart and competent scientist but you are in the middle of that picture of Solvay conferences, that image with Einstein, Curie, Schrödinger and many others
@@TheGrimmCommoner just because they were knights doesn't mean they were trainee by the barristan... not all knights even know the kingsguard....
@Yosri Chan I don't think @whycreate is going off the show but instead book cannon where we still don't know what happened at the Tower of Joy
It's like the guy forgot about all of the things you guys commented on. That show how good he was.
Tywin Lannister- "What killed your father?"
Arya Stark- "LOYALTY."
Loyalty to his family. The Lannisters just went back on their words.
Na ned being a fuckwit got him killed
@Samsun Nahar littlefinger: dont trust me
Ned: this seems like a trustworthy fellow
What killed your show?
@@britneyspheres7yearsago11 fuckery
It’s crazy how many times I’ve heard about Robert’s rebellion and always enjoy it
Probably because it influences literally all of the events in the story, lol.
Dont sleep on Ned. He followed the Art of War. He either postioned his forces to be able to win, as in the battle of the bells, the trident, or on pyke, or he positioned them so there need not be a battle, such as storms end, the throne room, and bear island. And the instructions he gave Catylen to prepare the north for war were also very good. Too bad he didnt understand liars as well as war.
He was never supposed to be Warden of the North, so it was better for him to learn to be a commander, also Northern people didn't go South a lot, so he didn't have much political experience outside of the North.
@@bolt7047 Mhm. If he was trained and taught to be the heir, he might've survived past the first season, if he was as skilled as he was as a commander even then.
@@imperiousrex128 don't know.. Just look, how poorly and stupid Brandon Stark acted towards his own people (Dustin for example) and especially when he went to Kings Landing, threatened to kill Rhaegar (who wasn't even there at the time) instead of trying to solve the situation in a different way!
And he was raised to be the heir and warden of the north...
Ned died because they exploited his weak points, innocent kids and his family. Catelyn told him to trust Littlefinger so his investigation was doomed from the very beggining, he told Cersei about the incest to save Tommen and Myrcella and Arya and Sansa brought the last nail to his coffin.
Most likely a good commander , napoleon is top 3 in history as far I concerned he never fought himself,,, not every commander has to be Alexander the great .
I think Ned still had to have been a better swordsman than you’re making him out to be here. The three kings guard were probably the most skilled fighters in the seven kingdoms at that point alongside barristen selmy, Jaime Lannister, and Robert Baratheon. Given the hype surrounding those ladder three, it feels like they would have no problems dispatching 7 northern lords despite being outnumbered, so the fact that Ned and co. were actually able to come out on top should be a decently ranked accomplishment.
3 vs 7 is pretty big difference plus it is said that ned took the best northern fighters with him plus we dont know what rly happened
@@eurongreyjoy1008 yeah true since the current best northern fighters would of been someone like great jon umber , I think they would have to be around his level , but I don’t actually remember if they specified the best northern fighters or if it was other high northern lords
3 vs 7 and only 2 of those 7 survived to tell the tale.
Nah, winning 3 v 7 is still not a great feat. Ned didn’t just came out on top of his 3v7, he states many time he would have died if it wasn’t for howland reed. Essentially, he simply got lucky. Arthur Dayne was going to slaughter them all.
So how then can I really give credit to Ned for that win? Rather praise his luck than his talent to have survived that day.
I always thought ned to be above average fighter, and that he was definitely better then most Lords
“He was the better commander” Yeah I’d hope a good commander wouldn’t show up at a notoriously violent king’s castle with a retinue demanding retribution
I think you’re selling Ned short saying that coming out alive against the kingsguard is basically nothing.
Even if Reed saved him in the final second of the fight, managing to stay on his feet for the rest of the engagement indicates he was very skilled, given he was up against the finest swordsman of his generation and two other elite kingsguard.
But they were 7 vs 3...
@@Cussy69_420 7 vs 3…not like 10 vs 3. Whose to say how good the other northmen were
@@MadristaSisamdon't know, if that really matters... 7 swordsmen vs 3 swordsmen shouldn't really be a discussion! Especially when there are several trained fighters in the 7 group. Ned, Glover, Ryswell, Reed...
@@Cussy69_420 You are underestimateing the 3 knightsmen. They were easily top 6 of westeros while we arent even sure the 7 northmen were top 7 in the North
@@MadristaSisam there is only so much skill can do, you cant defend from blow that come from behind while facing someone infront.
You know how you know Ned is good. Selmy had respect for him and at least considered him a threat.
I mean everyone does think Ned beat Arthur Dayne 1v1 but I see what you mean
@@godusopp2752 Selmy seen Ned in action, If he respects his fighting skills that got to mean something,
I don't know why, but I always get really happy when I see a new video from you.
I can't say whether its voice or his videos but i love this channel
I think perhaps the reason we know so little of Ned's role in the battles he fought is that Ned was a modest man. He rarely spoke of fighting, unlike Robert who loved to tell the tales of his victories.
This is the truest reason.
Ned didn't see combat as something to glorify or brag about like Robert and Jaime.
I want a spin off of Roberts rebellion. I pretty sure there was gonna be one but it got cancelled. Something like this would clarify so much in the lore of GOT
It'll eventually come with the house of fire or whatever that new shows called
It'd be so short lived by itself
A series would work but the budget would be too expensive but a movie trilogy might work like: first is all about the big tourney then the second is about the rebellion, the third is the battle between a stag warrior vs prince dragon.
Your last sentence, that is the problem while the books aren't finished.
@@bcshooterfmjprime7540 grrm said no robert rebellion spin off i don't know why he is against it what i wouldn't like to see is a show about the long night it will just ruin the mistery srounding it
Being recognized by badass the bold, is something that many many warriors can't do. Being above average is an understatement
I think we will see more of Ned's skills in the 6th book, when Bran sees his father's past.
That is if we ever get a sixth book 😥
Bran will see more than 2 ride away.. 🤫
I think ned on the show is better than ned in the books
Or lack thereof tbh
Hahahahahahaha sure
They did Ser Arthur Dayne and Ser Gerold Hightower a massive disservice in Game of Thrones. We did at least get to see the skill of the former but killing them so fast cheapens their reputation as 2 of the greatest knights in the seven kingdoms. Should have stretched that scene out more at the very least.
Outnumbered and they'll stab you in the back. Lol
True
I
They should have died faster. It was 6 or 7 on 3
@@coldhands2802 no arthur dayne easily couldve 1v6'd some scrubs I disagree with this.
I think during the rebellions, ned and jaime would have been far closer in skill than when they clash in kings landing. At that time, Ned was a battle hardened warrior as was Jaime. When they clash in Kings landing, Ned has been the lord of winterfell for 15 years, and Jaime was a kings guard knight who spent much of his time training and competing in tournament's.
Jaime Lannister was also extremely skilled at the time of the tourney of Harrenhall, being touted as the next Ser Arthur Dayne.
What's TTOH?
@@othmanmiri1259 the tourney of harrenhall?
@@sohel7445 yes
@@othmanmiri1259 The Tourney of Harrenhall
But he was too young .
Here’s to the best character in the whole saga. So awesome he died in the first book, and people are still talking about him
Rhaegar is more impressive, the man died 20 years before the story even starts and he's also one of the most talked about characters
@ Spoiler Ned also dies
Best characters Rhaegar and Ned? Best on what traits? One is either a pedophilic or a mad man the other a big fool who let his family suffer for his stupidity.
@@yourname2557 how is Rhaegar a pedo?
@@jetla7485 well in books it was said Lyanna was only 14 when Rhaegar took her. It's not confirmed that Rhaegar and Lyanna even loved each other and I don't think they did but the more I read books the more I believe in R+L=J so with that being said Rhaegar is a either a pedo or a mad rapist who was obsessed with prophecies.
Ned Stark is an exceptional commander - GG Martin ....he talked very highly on ned's tactical and strategical abilities ...Robert mentioned that ned and jon arren were the real ones who won the battle of trident ..excellent video good work
Last time I was this early Ned still had his head.
Great stuff
I think one of the best of them all
" those who have swords and know how to use them but choose not too"
Having the wisdom as a commander to win every battle with little casualties and not only survive but often times not even fight in the first place makes him one of the top dogs in my book
I think maybe GRRM doesn't show off Ned's abilities/past victories on purpose. Ned is a humble, stoic, and loyal man. A man with these qualities would not boast about himself as Robert or Brandon did. Just because some characters are cocky and loud does not mean they are all they talk themselves up to be, nor does it mean the Quiet Wolf wasn't just as great a fighter as them. I guess we may never know, but i think it boils down to is being a show off does not equal superiority.
Like your work, man, but I must say that this video seems to sell Ned VERY short.
Ned was known to be a great warrior based on first hand observation. He performed well during the Greyjoy Rebellion and is said to have singlehandedly killed 12 knights at the Trident.
Ned was well above average and was probably Kings Guard level - not the best of the Kings Guard, but middle of that pack. Elite.
9 years since the Rebellion and where we know Ned today, most likely 9 years not spent training and drilling sword play
but ruling and governing, loss of skill is only logical
You're a really gifted storyteller, these videos are always awesome. Thank you!
You also could have mentioned how Sansa recalls that Bronze Yohn Royce beat him and Winterfells master at arms one after the other in the training yard
If I remember correctly, he beat them both at the same time.
@@htut80 yes this was a older Ned after not fighting since the Greyjoy rebellion if I remember correctly , and bronze yohn Royce always trains
In a friendly sparring with wooden swords. Not a big deal....
Ned is a gorgeous example of the charm that a mediocre person can have, he's not that charming, not that skilled, not that charismatic, but to all the ppl that know him he is the best
The honorable fool Ned
If only Ned killed Jaime and the lannister loyalists in the Red Keep!
@@jl9554 Ned was too honourable to do that, he even gave Cersei a chance to flee with her children before he intended to tell Robert about her incest with Jamie but well we all know what happened next..
Honour makes no sense. Ned wasn’t a badass, nor his ruthless backstabbing bastard. Honor is afoolish thing
@@Brandonhayhew You are stupid.
1 minute late smh, ima go cry now
1. I click so damn fast!!
2. Ned is that dude.
3. Your voice is so soothing!!
4
5 profit
When I think of Bed I think he knew he'd never be his brother or Robert. I also think he chose this cause he saw the flaws in their devotion to more physical means of solving disputes. That being said he didn't survive 2 great wars on his mind alone. Like his father said "do your best not to get into fights, but if you must fight...Win." That's how I see him, a dutiful thinker who just wants a quiet life. But above all else is a family man, and father's can do things far beyond their skill in the protection of them.
Brandon was an overrated, simple-minded, impulsive moron. His only proven achievement was defeating Littlefinger. Nothing to write home about...
I disagree before Arthur dayne he killed another kingsguard Hightower I believe. Also ned killed plenty not as good as Jamie but in his league and he commanded army's he was a general a strategist Robert was in the vanguard ned commanded the army's ned fought duels with people who didn't surrender. Jousts are not a test of best fighters , melee is but man to man on foot is different
4 seconds, never been sooner!
Except in bed with you girlfriend. 😂
@@dylanbivins847 lmao
LETSS GOOOO ANOTHER VIDEO!! Keep up the great work man
I just don't think we should use tournaments to scale skills, the only thing we know about Brandom in terms of fighting is that he almost killed Petyr Baelish. Same to Rhaegal, besides tournaments his only known fight was against Robert in the Trident. We might be able to scale Ned's skills after the events in the joy tower are completely revealed.
For example if you did a tournament for 100 days and each time you come top 2 you get points ,Loras tyrell might win the whole thing cause as Jaime says “jousting is 3/4 horsemen ship , and he’s compotent enough to hold his own with a sword”
I think making it through an entire war with no injuries definitely speaks to one’s capabilities
I think I agree with your placement of his skill as a warrior. I do, however, think he was probably one of the best field commanders of his generation. Robb’s skill in that area at so young an age suggests he was mentored by a first rate general, and Ned would have been the one doing this.
I like Ned he fought when he had to fight and really didn't care for violence. But he was a boy scout with notions about honor and it got him killed, in a different time period where men were more honorable he would've thrived, had he been a little bit more cutthroat like tywin or olenna he would've survived a little bit longer in the Game of Thrones.
Well the Starks are great rulers in the North. The northerners value loyalty, honesty, sacriface and honor, and the Starks excel at that. If the North was full of schemers and turncoats, they would never survive their brutal winters.
So someone from that kind of enviorment could never survive the snake pit that is Kings Landing.
And Eddard new that. This is why he was reluctant to accept the King's hand position and rearly ventured south of the Neck. He knew his world view and the world view of the North did not match with the one in the south.
But he accepted the position to investigate a murder of his father figure and to protect his best friend- again displaying those Stark traits. So I do not see him as some boy scout type of character, to me he is a tragic character that tried to do the right thing- even if he knew it was not a smart thing to do- so much, that he was ready to give his life and the lives of his family for it- and we all know how much he loved his family.
I don't know about Ned's swordsmanship, but he must have been a brilliant mind in tactics. His children all possess some form of excellence in leadership and strategy. They must have learned from one of the best. Too bad he was too honorable for his own good.
I heard that phone buzz my friend lol good video
7:06 Did my man say Judgy Stark? LMAO!
I think Ned is better than we give him credit for as he's basically always giving himself a handicap with his honour.
Had he seen jaime throw bran out the window though... well lets just say jaime wouldn't have made it past the next episode, at least i dont think so.
I agree.I think Ned holds back in each battle by trying his best not to hit a lethal blow and not his best to win
Anyone who hangs around Robert Baratheon that much pretty much has to be a really good fighter. I assume all that Ned and Robert did for years was train. If Ned was trash then Robert would have noticed right away and never respected Ned as much as he did. That’s my thoughts on it anyway.
I agree but at the same time they were childhood friends-it’s not like Robert chose him bc of his fighting they were just really close already-basically brothers
greetings fellow loremasters
In the TV series Ned fought well against Ser Arthur Dayne and Jaime Lannister both regarded as the best of their era. Ned is a determined fighter with decent skill, he was eventually disarmed against a fully armoured Ser Arthur Dayne who had 2 swords but he put a good show in before that against someone far better than him. Most of his skill was in politics having the North back him and being close allies with King Robert.
Its become a bit of a popular trope among 'book' loyalists to constantly point out 'ned was never portrayed to be that good of a fighter'. Having read the books and watched the show, this is something that erks me. Firstly, ned wields a greatsword. To wield a greatsword even mildly effectively you have to be a monster of a man. Second, as you eluded to in this video, ned survived battles without taking any injuries. DO YOU KNOW HOW UNBELIEVABLY DIFFICULT THAT IS. Saying ned survived a battle without taking injury but didnt distinguish himself shows a massive gap in understanding of what a battle is actually like. Ned never valued killing, it was a duty. He never bragged about it or saught it. Robert wanted any excuse to fight and saw it as the ultimate glory. Ned might not have been the greatest swordsman in the realm but he was a damn good fighter and a complete beast of a man
When did they say who won the melee at harrenhall I thought it was still unknown in the books
You ahould do some videos on the stormlight archives.
Breath taking series.
Fax 😎
Ned and Hester Tully led a calvary charge at the bells and he commanded the trident yes Robert won it but ned put Robert in position to kill raegar
I agree that Ned was never on the level of Dayne or Jaime, but I hate the idea that he was merely better than average. By the end of the rebellion, he would have had more battle experience than Brandon, both in command and combat. Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't he also have more experience than Jaime? GRRM basically says that the Dayne and Jaime were the best, but I think Ned was closer to them than he was to an average fighter. The fact that he doesn't like violence or showing off in tournaments like Brandon is not a weakness. Ned's strength seems like it was intentionally left ambiguous, and I see a lot of people assume this means he was nothing special, but I don't that is necessarily a valid assumption.
Not really. Look ned is a general. He is the type who stays behind the army and analyses the battlefield and sends the troops he doesn't really fight.
@@someguy-bv3il when he was younger he did at the trident according to baristan selmy , “slaying 12 knights by yourself” that’s way better than what someone barely above average could do , that’s damn near kings guard level , But Ned’s respect does come from his generalship , it’s like Randyl Tarley, he gained respect because he beat Robert in a battle with their armies not in single combat
Brittany said he saw Ned cut down a dozen great knights. That's all I need to here. Ned is under-rated
Can u imagine if they do roberts rebellion and we see how close Ned was to those 6 men that came with him to the tower of joy and we see them survive all the great battles of the war and fight side by side with Ned all the way up to when they arrive in dorn. Seeing all his friends die except for reed would be heart breaking.
Ned's not dumb...period..! Show Ned didn't give justice on how brilliant of a tactician he was making use of what little resources he had down south. His strategy prior to making open war with the Lannisters were very sound till his great wife of a Tully screwed everything for him
Would really like to see the tourney of harranhal it’ll be cool
I don't know how skilled Ned would be in a one on one honor fight and I think that is a deliberate part of his character. Jamie is a preening peacock who views sword play as a game and a point of pride and boast. Ned is not a knight, he is a serious man from a harsh land where death comes for you quickly enough without brawling with drunks over hurt feelings. If he were not a man you could trust in a fight Robert would not have been his friend for long. I'm not saying he was an amazing fighter, but just because no living person willing to talk has witnessed you killing doesn't mean you haven't done any. Mormont saw him in a fight and decided to leave the continent instead of facing him. Whether it was for fear of his life or having too much respect for Ned and too much shame for his crime to fight him isn't that important, either way it says quite a bit. Jamie was given his spot on the kings guard out of spite for his father, and he was a boy who was now surrounded by the legendary fighters he grew up admiring. I doubt he ever had any real idea about how he stacked up against these men who were obligated to keep him alive. Arrogance and immaturity are not ingredients for a great warrior, at least in the show he seemed to learn some humility and responsibility eventually.
Ned was never hyped up as a great fighter. Ned's strength was in his character.
He was pretty hyped still.. to the point that many greats respected Ned at least as a threat.
Can a video of a list of Targaryen wars
Is there any reference to the roles other characters played in the rebellion I.e Jon Arryn?
wasnt the roman empire started on very small land if i am right?
i guess the greyjoys fall is mostly caused by themselves
Rome wasn't built in a day
@@HxH2011DRA but they did built an empire and the greyjoys didnt what ur point
Rome history is decorated with lies. The truth is that they're just lucky Alexander the Great went east and died.
1:42 WinsterFell? Lol huh??
I think George under sales ned he ahs shown in the books and the show that he can be an elite swordsman his feats kind of prove it
Ned being evenly matched with Jaime in the show was more of a honor to the actor than anything. He was one of the big draws for the show and did a great job kicking the series off. It would’ve been disappointing seeing Sean get beaten in a fight so early. Rewatching the seasons it’s honestly unreal that he was in Season one, just feels like great to watch him in that role.
Balon Greyjoy is literally the stupidest character in GOT. The first rebellion was what it was, he got a little ahead of himself and not only lost all of his sons except Theon, but also probably damaged the Iron Islands economy and military. The second rebellion though and his declaration as king completely lacked any sense. Also, why did he attack the Tully/Stark alliance instead of the Lannister/Tyrell alliance? Combined the lands of the Reach and the Westerlands were way more economically profitable to pillage or takeover than the more remote North. Euron definitely should have gotten the salt throne over this dumbass, at least he had the sense in the show to make an alliance with the Lannister’s. (I haven’t caught up with the books as I’m on book 1 right now, so I don’t know what book Euron does or has done yet.)
Youre in for a good read. Eurons character in the books is also a million times more interesting than the horny pirate the show turned him into
The stupidest character is Rhaegar. He's also the most cruelest
He almost matches Cersei on being an absolute dumbass.
They did attack the Lannisters, the first thing they did was burn the Lannister fleet in Lannisport. That was Euron I believe.
@@moneymayweathera Not even fucking close. And Rhaegar was never psrticularly cruel or sadistic.
(The ambiguous circusmtances of Lyanna's "kidnapping" ehich may or may not have been voluntary, are still a matter of debate). And everyone except Robert remembers Rhaegar as a kind, gentle and honourable prince.
"Ned's childhood died at 18"
Weird but awesome way of saying you're now a legal adult
Lol I feel like when people talk about Arthur Dayne, they always mention How he can slay 5 people alone...... So add 2 other extremely talented knights they should've easily dispatched Ned and his men...... But they didn't, and I'm truly bummed out that Martin hasn't been clearer on that because it's disrespectful to think Ned Stark wasn't an above average swordsman.
Can you do one on Stannis? I think he would be underrated.
You forgot the battle of Talavera where he and the chosen men captured an imperial eagle... wait... i think i have the wrong franchise
I wish we had gotten to see Robert's rebellion. Cripes. That helmet
I always thought of Ned as a great commander, not a swordsman. Good warrior, but not great like some others, as he did not even enjoy fighting. It was more of a duty for him, but a duty done well. Kind of like Randyll Tarly, who is described as a great soldier and commander, yet not uses his valyrian sword in combat that often.
I feel Ned was a commander, rather than a front line warrior
I think if Ned grew up to be wise and brutishly strong, like the lovechild of Mountain and Viper, he would wield The Ice on the battlefield. What a vehemently putrid sight for his enemies. Psychological apprehension of the highest order. Ned would be called an elite even without fighting.
Was Robert at that Tourney to see Rhaegar give that blue rose to Lyanna? I can't remember..
Dekuuchiha yes he was
Can you make video about all know Gods?
I know its too much to ask but can you please do the recap of all ASOIAF books i really need to hear it
Barriston Selmy said to Ned " Your too modest I seen you cut down a dozen great knights ". That was in season 1 Ep. 5 The Wolf and the Lion. He killed Gerold Hightower before Arthur Dayne at the Tower of Joy. So Eddard Stark is no slouch.
There is no evidence of Ned killing The white bull so it was only show material to make Ned look badass
lets keep it real. no way ned is beating even an old white bull. this show scene was illogical the white bull wouldlnt be too young and he is the lord commander why he dont even speak?? they just throw another dude there with dayne
@Palantiri i hope thats the case but i think they confirmed its white bull which is sad and illogical
Seems that Ned had the respect of his peers and would have trained with them. You touched on it early on. Brandon and Robert were guys that he most likely trained along with during his youth and beyond, so my assumption is that he was at worst at least competent enough to hold his own with them. Perhaps 2nd tier, but competent. Also, as stated by other comments, his "job" wasn't to necessarily have to fight as a soldier/warrior, but rather to be a commander leading armies. I honestly think, if Ned was watching this clip, he would laugh at the notion of ranking his skills. He obviously had no interest in joisting or other "swinging dick" type actions. That was Robert's personality.
Can you make a video about Robert baratheon
Why whycreate?
I also think it's a bit hard to assess the skill of the soldiers of the past, because people tend to remember the dead - especially the ones they like - with an almost legendary status that not necessarilly correponds to the truth.. We hear from Ser Arthur Dayne, for exemple, from Jayme Lannister - who was knighted by him - and from Ned Stark - who has very fond memories of the man, and, as you noted yourself, wasn't as skilled as people think. Was Arthur as invincible as people think? Even Jayme, who lost his hand and his skill with the sword, still makes men terrified, even if they should know that, by logic, they can, now take him on. Ser Beric Dondarrion is remembered as a great knight, but he lost countless times and was just lucky that he had someone to ressurect him...
Idk, I think it's kinda pointless to speculate on these things. In the end, the myth about these men will always be bigger than themselves.
Also, we know from stories like Ser Jorah that sometimes an inferior knight with a boost of confidence can perform better than his normal, and, as any professional player can tell you, consistency is more important than one time feats.
As much as what you’re saying is true, there’s also a log of the feats of these kingsguard that’s not going to be bullshitted...also beric’s group had some elite fighters there and it was very mysterious bc if you speculate “beric’s group killed brienne and the hound” then yeah it seems pretty obvious...not to mention you can have accounts of people who have fought these people in tourneys who know how good they are and people can see it in person
Good job👍
Rhaegar is the best? Is that why he died when it came to real combat?
I agree...I think he’s a solid tier below Selmy/Dayne...but in that tourney it was in melee, not horsed combat where Robert might have just smashed him in one blow with his hammer
I also think Neds fighting capabilities were probably nothing to write home about. Because there was never much talk about it before he got his hero status and was just a second born son. And that's odd because being a competent warrior would have been a very viable "career path" for him before he became Lord of Winterfell.
I also don't think Rhaegar was necessarily any good at fighting beyond looking good in tournaments. While he won, those were competitions where everyone would be very interested in sucking up to the royal family. And no one wanted to be the one who cut the crown prince's face in half. So every contest he was in would have been super orderly and by the book with points awarded after. And you know he would be the kind of person who was totally nerding for points.
Cool video
I think Ned is a lot better than appears but he is more the general than the warrior. Ned was never someone to seek glory. He would train but not boost of prowess. I think there are subtle hints at his ability like how Robert while riding with him wanted to have some fun and ride how they “used to” which implies he was a good horse rider. Ned was able to travel by himself through enemy territory from Targaryen supporters through the vale which sure he acquired some help but went through unscathed.
I think Eddard skill could be spotted both on the traits of Jon snow amd Robb stark. Robb being the firstborn it would make sense that he was trained by Ned to rule, command and keep the north unified. He was smart enough no not take the bait on dueling Jaime after the battle of the whispering woods but still managed to pull out victories, his sole Great mistake was breaking his oath and marry a nurse. With jon snow its the same thou at first he was hateful of being a peasant in the wall, he eventually started training and helping his fellow watchers. Eventually he grew to have the title of being a great fighter as well.
Didn't Bronze Yohn take Edd and Rodrick at the same time and beat them both down?
In the books, yes. Although I don't know if that shows that bronze yohn is a badass or that Ned is a pushover 🤔
Whay do you think about a total war game aroung the GOT universe?
1:19 why does the book have such an ugly picture of ned
I think Dayne, Hightower & Whent were sent to the wall Arthur Dayne is Mance Rayder, Gerold Hightower is Tormund Giantsbane and Corryn Halfhand is Lord Whent. Look at how when Mance was Glamored as the Lord of Bones he whipped Jon Snow's (one of the best swordsman in 7Kingdoms) ass
Ned is the most honourable man Westeros ever had
But thought people were better men than they actually were. He should of known that people are not as honorable as himself. For him not to know The Lannister's were going to do anything to keep their incest secret, was his mortal blunder. He should of known that Renley was his only friend in King's Landing. He knew Littlefinger bankrupted the realm, since he knew the confers were overflowing when they took the capital. LF also loved his wife, another reason to not trust him. If he goes with Renley, he lives, and this whole story greatly changes
His honor got his head chopped off and lead his family to their doom. Robb is another honorable fool like his dad ned.
Ned killed at least one kings guard on his own, back when kings guard were the best warriors in the realm
Soo early !!
Your wrong about tower of joy , not about the skills part 3 kingsguard against seven lords is a fair fight and ned gave Howland the credit the stories are Chinese whispers
I think he was more skilled than everyone thinks
Did ned overreact to Jamie sitting on Roberts throne? No not if you read grrm original outline Jamie was guna kill everyone in his way to sit on that throne but in George's true gardner style the seed was planted but never blossomed
@0:50 "versus" not "verse"
"He's better than my father"
"Far better..."
Where would Jon snow fall in the comparison with the greatest knights in Westeros ??
.....would love to see all his battles, though there are not many when we look in the books .....but can we asses it through the show???
Probably relatively low, Jon isn’t small like he in the show but the books are more grounded. I’d put him around neds level
He is good but not anything special.
People should read the dance of the dragons and learn about the brutality of northerners , Ned was definitely a very good warrior
My theory is how land reed warged into Arthur dayne to save Ned and that’s why he can’t talk about it, he would be killed for being a warg and it was a dishonorable way for Arthur dayne to die
a win is a win