Is this technology or marketing gimmicks? Other than electronic derailleurs i see markwting gimmicks. Everyone acts like the pros from 20 or 30 years ago werent aware of this stuff. I like how everything gets cheaper to.manufacture but the price increases. Carbon frames are cheaper than steel, bonded aluminum cranksets are cheaper than cold forged, electronic derailleurs are cheaper than mechanical. Disc brakes? According to the president of the french cycling union the riders hate them and they are exponentially raising the number of crashes When the peloton went from centerpull brakes to side pull there wasnt a single pro who said we can go into corners faster or these side pull are unsafe. They said they were lighter we can go faster.
prices more than the technology. There's no way a sram XX1 eagle component or Di2 is priced with typical market margins. $3000-5000 just for the groupset? $1000+ powermeter cranks? $200-300 for chris king headset? I challenge anyone to blindly identify those headset over a $30 headset from riding it.. Buying a top tier bike is the same price as a good used toyota corolla. I'll take the corolla.
There's plenty of room for new tech. It's just that not every bike has to have it. Disc brakes on bikes aren't the cause of industry malaise, rather it's the industry losing sight of the fact that some folks want simpler bikes. The reality is also that people are buying the bikes that others rail against, so as long as that happens, they'll keep making those bikes. And while all the cool kids say that this tech is unnecessary or that's a gimmick, those are just opinions. It's up to the individual rider to determine what they want to ride, what they value, and what they need. That means none of us know what's best for someone else. "Un-needed" is not an objective qualification. It's just an opinion. Frankly, it's the virtually the same word that every lover of older bikes has said about newer bikes. This kind of sentiment goes back decades.
@@javiersmith2216no one hates disc brakes except for road bikers. So we’ll just ignore that statement of yours. Disc brakes are far and away superior to rim brakes in every way
Don't buy bikes then. Comparing bikes to motorcycles is a completely apples-to-oranges comparison. That's not how markets work. That's now how pricing works. That's not how value is established. You'd learn as much in an Economics 101 class. It might be a satisfying opinion to have, but it would not solve any problems. Real-world problems don't have binary solutions. Getting consumers to buy less expensive and simpler bikes will require not just providing those bikes but also changing consumer desires. And making cheaper bikes isn't just about lowering prices. Economic factors influence the cost of materials and manufacturing. It's not just those dang greedy companies. Solutions require a realistic approach and addressing all the factors that contribute to an issue. Of course, this is the internet and it is 2024, so we can only think in black and white. Honestly, it sure seems that all anyone wants to do is piss and moan about issues and avoid at all costs any deep or critical thought about those issues.
if everyone involved in the manufacturing of bikes was actually paid decent wages the bikes would be 5x as expensive it is what it is no one is ever forced to buy market conditions dictate pricing
Nashbar was the Bomb! Used them from when I was riding as a kid in the early eighties to the day they went Bankrupt. Still ride use regularly a few of their saddles and a floor pump that is pushing 20 years old RIP Nashbar
Last year everyone was predicting Trek's demise. This year it's Specialized. Every bike shop has an expert who predicts doom and gloom for the industry. Seriously, I've been listening to it since 1972. Yes, markets change and some stalwart companies don't survive, but it never turns out the way they predicted.
Specialized will be fine. They've rationalized their product line and I'm sure they've dialed back their production bigtime to suit demand, they've also massively slashed their marketing spend.
A quality alloy or double butted tig welded steel frame, brightly painted with mechanical shifting and decent aluminum wheels would satisfy 90% of even the enthusiasts, make a decent margin, and, if they wanted direct to customer, survive savage delivery drivers. Owners might even surprise themselves that a sub 2k quality bike could do well in the market.
I was recently in Zurich (not bragging), I popped in a high end bike shop expecting to see BMC….I was surprised to see several S-Works SL8s…the guy in the shop said Specialized was the top seller.
Specialized Bikes and gear, such as helmets, shoes, and clothing, are fantastic. Customers will use Specialized as long as their products are excellent. For many, that is the bottom line, great bikes, E-Bikes, Road Bikes, Mountain Bikes- and great gear.
Agreed! I even like their pouches & tie downs. (Though so far as the wearables, they don't seem to make anything from any natural fibers, so I can't wear it against my skin... 🥵 Also, I'm too excessively tall (comparatively huge front area profile + weight), to get any worthwhile benefit from a
Specialized, Trek and somewhat Cannondale have expanded to the cult brand riders. They make a lot off of their clothing and accessories. Small groups that have sprung up to ride the wave don`t have that following to fall back on. Think Harley Davidson, they have a cult following and the motor clothes out pace their m/c sales 10 fold.
Too much inventory? I had to check the Specialized US site to check and you're right, you guys have all the sizes and colours of Tarmacs in stock. Here in Australia nothing is ever in stock. Specialized should just ship all their inventory overseas as I'm sure many markets will gladly have them.
I think it would be very costly to ship over there quickly (air freight) and take a good month or 2 to ship economically (boat) and then then have even more dated product that could have potentially sold over those months. It light work and sell over there.. but who knows. It’s still a gamble
Mexico is also low or out of stock in many sizes and models, maybe in the US it might seem like its overstocked but all those bikes eventually arrive in other countries and continents
Mtbs are worse than road bikes. Purely rec bikes. 8k to use once or twice a week when you go drive a few hours to a good place to ride is bonkers. 8k for a road bike could be your primary way to get around daily and pay itself off of you drop one car or even in fuel and parking over a few years
Realistically a person with an average income shouldn't be purchasing a bike for that much money. Average take home income is around 40k in America. It would be insane to spend nearly a quarter of that on a mountain bike. I know people will say "make more money". That's the problem. When you have to be above average income to participate in a sport the sport is either going to die or shrink to a sport purely for the upper class.
This is all so different from my early cycling days in the U.K. In the sixties. Back then you only bought from your local shop where you got a made to measure hand built frame with any combination of colours and chrome and lug work for about your monthly income. Mine was a Fred Dean - beautiful.
Recreational rider. Recently retired baby boomer. Specialized advertised direct sales with the option to pickup at my LBS. Nice price drop on a few bikes but was limited. After I bought I sometimes saw that bike or size was then sold out. They are featuring a few other bikes now so I ordered a Sirrus X5 for the wife. Got my 6.0 on sale now hers. The LBS handle the service really nicely. I did buy accessories there. Pedals, Lights, Garmin, cages. Shoes were on sale too online. A few helmets are featured. Do I need a Specalized Prevail 3 over something on Amazon? The sale price of $209 from $300 is a nice price. Canyon or other direct sales bikes with no shops puts all your faith in yourself for service. Knowing I wanted a road bike the Roubiax pro on sale in my size is a great bike for someone over 60. Unfortunately going into the LBS you see the S-Works Tarmac and find you can order it online to your LBS They set it up. Give complimentary service. My size is now sold out. Specialized online to home or store is nice.
Specialized's direct-to-consumer strategy is a bit of a mixed bag. It’s nice to have the option to pick up at your local shop, but it can be frustrating when sizes and models are quickly sold out. Try to buy from the LBS directly so they get the full margin. Their program with their dealers is somewhat lacking and not as supportive as it should be. Thanks for sharing, and enjoy the ride!
My LBS just became a Specialized authorized dealer. Theyve been eputting together a ton of bikes over the past few weeks. Hoping it works out for them, theyve been in business for a long time. Theyve been a Jamis dealer for a long time too
You’re spot on about them missing the market. I live in southern Utah with two stores in our area. If you go there for a recreational type bike they will inform you that they will have to order it. They might have one or two in stock but not much else. So they try to sell you a more expensive bike and one way different than what you’re looking for. Typical sales stuff. Keep up the good work and continue doing what you do. Thanks
Thanks for sharing! I will, and thanks for watching! I just drove through Southern Utah. It's very pretty and looks like some fantastic riding. I'm in Vegas over the Holiday.
Interesting commentary. I didn't understand what you mean by "doubling down" on service. What does that entail for a shop that's already doing service for customers (which is most shops) ?
In every shop, you can always increase different levels of service. Which may include frame detailing, chain, waxing, also bringing back suspension work and other high-end or explicit services. That may also include different tuneup packages and also aggressive, marketing and turnaround time.
Let’s hope so. They along with Trek have been trying to control/screw every independent bike dealer since the 80s. As well as try to chase every independent accessory brand out of shops by threatening/leveraging them to buy their private label accessories. I lived it. Here’s to the resurgence of independent brands and bike dealers. Good video.
i wish they would, and take Trek with them. Two companies hellbent on greed, both that have nearly ruined anything cool about cycling. Both are awful companies.
LBS = service with a tude at a premium cost. Mobile service van from a local non-national brand = quality service with appreciation for your business . At least I found a local service van that’s a stud. And he brings his shop to my driveway.
Merida still has a large amount of ownership of Specialized. They’re not going to let the company fall into trouble. Also Pon is a Dutch company, not German. But for sure it’s a lean time for everyone in the industry!
If Merida are still holding their 49% in Specialized and still making their bikes in their Taiwan Factory I think they will survive, but who knows in this market??? Exciting, oh yes. Great video and talking points 👍👍👍👍
Thanks for watching and sharing. If it gets too bad, Pon Holdings may want to pursue them. We're at a point where anything can happen, and no brand is stable enough.
@@IKnowAGuyBicycles , that's certainly an opinion, but sadly there's not a lot of data out there on Speciallized's financials/company health. And not even Nostradamus could read the future. There are a lot of factors at play. Consider for a moment the tariffs that Trump claims he will put in place. That's likely to be a big negative for all cycling. Other companies may go under and that may give space to Specialized in the market. And didn't Pon just recently sell off some brand(s)? I"'m no fan of Specialized at all. Even though Sinyard isn't there now, his stench remains, but I think if Specialized were to go under, it'd mean the industry was in far worse place than anyone imagined.
A lot of good content here, plenty of food for thought. I would personally question the marketing of such a large percentage of high end (expensive) bikes, and turning away entry level riders. I've been buying high end bikes all of my life and I'm even getting sticker shock at some of the mid priced bikes....
Canyon just teamed up with...REI. There's major problems with DTC and all it takes is one pissed off driver. Destroyed custom bicycles and other issues. There's a picture of a Canyon box that looks like the tines of a forklift were driven through it. I'll stick to the LBS, as we have one of the best, if not the best here, Fair Wheels.
FYI, it _is_ possible to get shipping that covers any damages. When shipping something that costs thousands, it's unwise to cheap out on the transport. Still costs a lot less than paying retail markup, too; well worth it, in my opinion!
Dream on. They're a bit of a dick company with their silly lawsuits, NDAs, and employment contracts. But they're not stupid, just going through a rough patch, like the rest of the industry.
I suspect part of the problem is bike manufacturers have cannibalized their own sales by offering so many options. Frames only, there's models for each discipline, alu or carbon, multiple sizes and colours... and that's just the frame. So much inventory.
Bike shops can not survive on service income to stay open. Best case is making 10k a month on repairs that doesn’t even cover rent/mortgage and operating expenses. The only way to make a profitable shop doing just service is to do it out of your house or mobile.
I'm just a customer, so please forgive my ignorance. I just want to point out that "service" doesn't only mean "repairs and tune ups". There are two other services that I will happily pay for: bike fits and pre-sale consultations. Both of these services will probably increase as the distribution model shifts toward direct-to-consumer sales. I.e. I would pay for a consultation and a bike fit, which would then inform which specific bike to buy, even if the bike itself is a direct-to-consumer sale. Perhaps I am stupid, I'm just describing what I would pay for. A traditional sale commission places the wrong incentives on the LBS, because they want me to buy whatever they have in stock, while the pre-sale model I described at the beginning makes them brand and model agnostic.
Service is the only thing keeping the lights on for bike ships? For us it's that plus quality brand name mid-drive e-bikss. And while mountain bike sales are down, mountain bike parts and accessories continue to do very well. But without the e-bikes we'd be having a hard time, so it's mostly about the e-bikes for us to be honest.
@@prophetzarquon The e-bikes we sell, the motors are sealed units engineered to last the life of the bike. So, no. It's a warranty process if it's within warranty, or a replacement process otherwise. But we've been selling e-bikes for 21 years and sold 2 or 3 motors in that entire time. On my personal e-bike my motor's at 21k kilometres and going strong. One of my customers is now over 41k kilometres and still counting. It just doesn't seem to be much of an issue.
Its a sad day when I'm actually happier to just buy Asian branded wares rather than pay some obscene markup for a western company to stamp their name on a product they couldn't even produce if they wanted to.
Agree on entry level market statements. Well known that selling one high end bike same profit dollars as selling 5 entry level bikes, or doing 10-12 repairs (tunes let’s say). So there are ground level market forces that dictate where IBD’s spend their money in a given market. The 10-12 entry level sales and or the tunes build your business. And the high end purchase is more about dollars and sense. One other thing to think about is that the big four completely embodies the abandonment of the entry level when it comes to e-bikes. The growth end of the bike market right now, and most profitable, and they completely missed the boat at the entry level. They abandoned it to low-level low quality producers who have taken the time to gain market share and improve their offerings in the $900-$1500 price window that the big four could have dominated and dictated if they weren’t so high and mighty
The bike industry has been continually reinventing itself for years now, I remember when the Made in Taiwan bikes were first hitting the market. Having worked in several bike shops over the years, that process of reinventing has also made victims of the industry. I feel like I had the chance of a lifetime to experience the advent of the industry technology starting in the early 80's through to the 90's some might think that this has no historical value, but it does in so many ways. Seams to be smaller markets for parts, and custom bikes making a come back as some older quality bikes are saved from the scrap pile to live another life through a hand crafting painting and building of each one to suit .....
People wake up to China! I build bikes for 1500 bucks and I like them better than the big brands. Last one was a F 12 and it was awesome and beautiful, I chose from 50+color schemes .This has been Ali-express and I have used them for 7 years! Most of the bike industry is farmed in China!
With online brands selling bikes 1000$ less than bike shop brands it hasn’t helped those companies either . I bought my last 3 frames and most parts online just because it’s cheaper and I live in a small town , it’s easier for me to order parts than drive 30 min to go to a bike shop that might not have what I need .
@IKnowAGuyBicycles not unless there's another plandemic...if spesh selling a 2024 s works for $6k on their own website ): It's not going to increase in value
@@EvMc305You are correct, it’s not coming back. Just like 2020 Vettes and a lot of EVs. Most things depreciate, nothing we can do but go out and enjoy it. Ride it for a long time and it will matter less. I have a 20 year old sports car and would love a newer one but the price to fun factor makes me keep my current car. Same was true with my 10 year old bike until my back started hurting on every ride! 😂
Mike Sinyard was around long before the Morgan Hill mountain bike days. He used to visit a shop I worked at in the very early seventies selling Campagnolo components out of the trunk of his car.
do more research on this company, it isn't good, from the earliest days he was hellbent on copying others and driving everyone else away. His current company and Trek are absolutely horrible companies.
not getting political here but Tariffs are going to work against any chance of lower price points if they are applied more broadly unless manufacturing is brought back and then labor and everything else will essentially be as expensive or more than the tariffs. The biggest issue is the expectations of unsustainable profits and any reduction profit is seen as failure
@IKnowAGuyBicycles used .Arnett angle is something that didn't occur to me, I have more ebikes than I need in stock so I would welcome a return to increased value
Direct to customer is the model of the future. I love Specialized. I would never buy a bike from an independent bike shop. I would always skip the middle man.
you love a horrible company, great, nobody could make a comment like you did that knew what cycling was like in the 80s. It wasn't like this. It's become some souless, greedy dorky world. You wouldn't buy a bike made by a individual? Only a Corporate entity that doesn't care about anything except money? That's sad that we live in a world where people have lost sight of what cool is, preferring to roll over for some enormous company that has no interest in anything except money....Trek is even worse. You praise even more greed, straight to the customer? Wow.
Like car manufactures they will continue to build extremely expensive price point. Raleigh is gone no more M-80 for $600. These companies want the $1000 profit per bike not $20 on a $400 bike. Mom and pop shops are doing fine as long as they didn't sell their soul to any brand. The customer is what matters. Servicing electric bikes, online order customer and the $5 customer needing ends and outs... still simple but hard. I'm happy my bike shop is well established and loved by me and many others. Thanks
I was a late convert to Specialized only because my LBS was appointed a retailer. Otherwise there's choices in this part of the world (which is small to Specialized) but an opportunity for the newly emerging Chinese bike brands who to all intents and purposes are owning the accessory market here already. And a components brand like Wheeltop has bought the more well known Rotor buoyed by support in their growing China market.
news flash: Specialized does not manufacture bikes, they order bikes and slap their name on them. Pon is not germen, they are swamp germen( Netherlands).
Specialized bike shops here in Rio de Janeiro Brazil are bad, they will push you to buy a Medium 5k bike for a XL rider, the mechanics are not able to do a simple suspension maintenance, they will brake your bike doing simple mechanics and will not pay for the riders prejudice... really sad for me that got my first Specialized Rock Hopper in 91 at Huntington Beach Specialized shop and had some others Specialized bikes...
I've been in/around the biz since the mid-1980's, both retail and wholesale. I like the way you describe Merida's "huge investment" in the Big-S. Just like with Fisher earlier (with supplier Pacific) "Kim Il Sinyard" was way upside-down, owing Merida piles o' dough. Only way out for him was to surrender 1/2 of the Big-S. But unlike in the USA, Merida has zero issues competing with Big-S in Europe. I wouldn't shed a tear if the hypocrite/bully Big-S swirled down-the-drain, other than what it might mean for the rest of the industry...where I still have some friends. Good luck with Big-S following any of your suggestions...don't hold your breath!
I'm not familiar with the industry from a business perspective, but as a consumer cycling has always been expensive. I rode bikes as kid in the 70's, rode in college in the 80's, and started riding again in my 40's in 2011. I started with an E5 Allez, which was $800. I rode that for three months, sold it on Craigslist for $750, and upgraded to a Tarmac SL2 Elite. That was my first carbon bike and it was $2300 with SRAM Apex. I upgraded the wheels to the Roval Fusee 5 Star. The retail cost on those were $1,000, and I also had to upgrade to an Ultegra cassette to run those wheels. That was an additional $100 cost. All in we're at $3400 excluding clips, bottle cages, trip computer, and lights. This was hardly inexpensive, but I viewed that bike as a long term investment in my health and quality of life. I loved that bike and the local bike store gave me free tune-ups for life and a discount on my purchase. Tune-ups now start at $100 in Dallas for any bike, so retailers aren't completely innocent with the escalating cost to participate in cycling. I'm now 59, still in great shape, and ride a Tarmac SL8 Pro. I love riding this bike and get compliments every time I ride it. Was it super expensive for me? Absolutely, but worth every penny. I wanted to introduce my lady to cycling, so we searched on FB Marketplace and found her a gem. I purchased a 2017 49cm Allez for $760. This was almost the same price as when the bike was new, but it had just been serviced, was in like new condition, and it was next to impossible to find one in her size. She loves her bike, but it still was not inexpensive, even for a 7 year old bike. Moral to the story, Specialized makes amazing bikes that will last many years with proper servicing, but they're not going to be cheap new or used, and you can find one at any budget with a little research.
What Specialized and other manufacturers need to do is STOP DEVELOPING TRENDY BIKES I just bought a rockhopper (base model) 2025 for 675. I must say having a bike with the max chainring of 36/22 and 34 single ring was a little disappointing 😞 A person has to push a lot of watts just to get those 29 inch tires up to speed.
It all comes down to market segmentation, product mix, and pricing. They can serve all the different markets you state but have to spec, price, and set volumes accordingly. Any CPG brand manager can do the analysis, it’s not that hard. Hard part is getting leadership to listen. Leaders want $$$. I haven’t done the work but more entry level bikes with the appropriate gear, and fewer high bikes (maybe custom ordering experience), and then a mix of service. That could work. Another thing to consider is addressing how to get people to trade in/buy more often. I rode my road bike for 10+ years and it was still great. I only got a new for a different geometry that was easier on my back. Bikes are not cars and can be kept for a very long time so that’s another challenge for the industry.
Focusing on the used market is a great direction. Trade in events for store credit and give a less expensive option for those just getting into riding. Building a community of customers should be the focus, but it should not always be the bottom line. Thanks for sharing.
Actually you will less less innovations.... some companies like Canyon only changing the color schemes for the 2025 year on some of their high end bikes to keep costs down.
It is over due for a major reset and we are the only industry that does not let brands or companies go out of business and disappear. Way to many options and products that are the same with different names. Also lets throw in the fact the bread and butter models or customers for the shops are getting fewer. So what I see and what we have been doing is a strong focus on repairs with great customer service. I also think the service side can be better supported by the companies we sell.
If they had bikes available that they list online I would purchase bikes from Specialized but they don't and don't provide an option to order either - I would be happy to wait as pre-order but this is also not possible. One can go to stores but they also cannot get them.
road bicycle sellers have priced the consumers out of the market. upselling people on unneeded disc brakes and charging more as the bikes got heavier. unacceptable. I want an affordable bike, not a warm hug and having my pocket picked.
Im a die hard Specialized fan and absolutely love the brand. Next summer I'm ready to buy my first mountain E bike and test rode their high end Levo dual suspension. I couldnt believe how amazing it was. THEN i saw the new Pinion MGU with a belt drive online coming out of that German trade show. If Specialized doesnt deliver this new superior technology they wont get my money. Please Specialized- ADAPT ASAP
For Suply chain and compatibilty between products chain driven bikes gonna be the standard specially because major development comes with transmision brands. The fact that something is new doesnt mean better on the long run
Carbon belt drive is superior at low loads; at higher loads, chain remains more efficient. The harder you're working, the more a belt works against you. Chainbox shifters, _are_ probably the future; even though at the moment they're still pretty heavy, _extremely_ expensive (because proprietary), & not much range of shift in gear ratio. Internally geared shifters avoid debris buildup, but due to simple physics of leverage & moving parts, they're less strong & higher drag (& higher weight _and_ higher price _and_ less modularly repairable\customizable) than big tall cassettes (& chainrings). So, for casual riding at low efforts, belt drive & IGH are wonderful. For getting the most out of your maximum effort, cassette is still king.
I own several Spesh bikes and also own several Santa Cruz and Giant .... lots of companies make great bikes Brand loyaly for bike companies is silly ... people that who lock in one one company and love everything that company does are myopes
Yes, they did, and the name was bought by an investment company. They hired two former employees. I made a video on it. th-cam.com/video/wdDrKwiPpw8/w-d-xo.html
Worked at a great bike store. Sold mostly recumbents, also had specialized Giant and 1-2 other small boutique brands. Recumbents paid the bills and kept the lights on. Everything else was gravy. Specialized went direct so we picked up Giant.
I don't see how it makes sense to simultaneously complain about discounting prices and then complain that prices are too high. Yes, a marketing plan of working the smallest market, high-end bikes, won't be successful. It's tough enough to compete with poorly assembled but really cheap prices of the big box stores, but looking down one's nose at recreational riders, the largest market, isn't the path to success. It seems that Specialized and other bike manufacturers are run by enthusiasts rather than business people.
$7k, $9K, $12k for a bike? I’m not sure how they could…You have these manufacturers making their frames in China, they all look the same btw-same carbon curved frames for the past 5 years or so, with Chinese low wages, how are they justified in selling a ridiculously expensive bike without passing the saving onto the consumer? I have/had USA made bikes for the past 40 years(yes, some Chinese components) but the frames were at least made by Americans, and they do not cost that much. Specialized, Cannondale, the non defunct GT can all go down the drain. They had a money grab for a long time, they offer nothing for the new rider but the same ol’ thing.
@ you know, I’m ok with a profit, but it seems like they were not thinking long term. Now, maybe that’s the industry, I do not know. I do know(not trying to live in the past), there was so much innovation in the sport in the 90’s, GT especially. What I am seeing is “unmotivated innovation”, it reminds me of Shimano’s Biopace system. Now, Im not against the innovation, but at what cost. I think what I really miss is the loss of USA frame/bike builders.
Goog question. The bicycle industry is all about marketing. Sponsor a pro team and you have more pricing power than any other industry but the pharmaceutical industry. There is a possibility that one of the holding companies who sponsors multiple pro teams out bids specialized for sponsorship. This would increase the pricing power of the holding company and cut down the competition. I can see that happening.
I hate single brand bike stores. When I go to a store I want to see are range of brands. Single brand stores make it hard to compare brands, offerings and value without spending a significant amount of time driving around town from one store to another trying to A/B bikes. And from what I can see recently the single brand stores are starting to look like they are dying business they look like hollowed out shells of their former selves. The reality is bikes just aren’t prestigious items and pretending that they are and artificially over inflating the price, Just doesn’t work in the long term
Next year, the Astana team will ride a Chinese bike, X-Lab. Shimano DA DI2, Vision 60mm wheels.. As it´s raced in road competitions, it´s UCI approved. I´ve seen it priced at $7.700 over the counter. Can you tell where the silly overpriced Western brands are heading??????? Rgr
You could do like Johnny Nerd out install mid drives into peoples bikes it’s very easy opens up a whole new avenue of work I bought a kit from him installed it myself love it!
If there's one bike brand I hope goes out of business , its's Specialized. Boring bikes that are a dime a dozen onthe road. The pricing is similar to a pair of Air jordans - you're paying way too much for the markeitng hype that's injected into mass produced carbon molded frames. I do like some of their MTB shoes though.
Rightfully no, they lost the point of bikes building them for the rich elites, just like cars at $100k+. We the people just don’t care about the latest greates and lightest. We want durable, easy to fix bike and cars for that matter.
Not a surprise they were so much overpriced. For ~€$£2500 i understand i won't get carbon wheel bike but at least some good alloy like Zonda fulcrum quattro or dt with 350hub instead they want 3000+ for a bike which stands on some s** with Shimano ball bearing hub...for that money. All that bike manufacturere think customers are stupid or can't count their money
Specialized blatantly copied No tubes rim design and tried to crush No tubes with a bigger legal budget. Glad No tubes won the lawsuit. Specialized lost my business at that point.
If you discount right off the bat with a new customer, don't you get the relationship off on the wrong foot? Won't they expect discounts going forward? I'm not saying nickel and dime every customer, I'm saying value your time, tools, and expertise.
The consumer perspective is quite confusing, and this has been going on for two years now. They are now conditioned not to buy unless it's on sale, which would be the standard pricing going forward.
Basic inventory management. Unless your product is hands down the best, the higher the price, the slower it will sell. You can't make all $10k+ bikes for the gen pop. Yes, there are some of us that will pay $$ to save 600 grams but that's not your bread and butter. Cycling is not alone in learning this lesson. Take a look at the auto industry. Same issues, different product. At the base of it all is greed. Not it's the consumer's time to show how we feel about it.
You made some good points but IMO this shines a light on industry identity problem; too many models, multiple and conflicting distribution models coupled LBS apathy for regular riders. I really want to support my LBS but they make it hard. I want to support my bike brand but they make it hard...and the list goes on. Unlike the US car industry there is no bailout coming.
Surprise surprise you do surmise that the industry should reach out to independents. Okay, that does not address the looming tax tariffs that will hit the Taiwan/China made bike industry. Too late to bring meaningful production back onshore, in 35 years no-one has seen this market. Add in the e-bike and scooter share gobble, tis a mess!
Right on the money,,, Going with the simple rider is a great way too move forward... Biking is fun,,, keep it simple and make it fun... Thanks for sharing. Western Canada Don 😊
The biggest thing steering me away from specialized is the price, absolutely no way when I can get bikes with the same components and performance/feature value for 30% less. The brand is over its head if it wants to charge what it is for their standard bikes. S-Works is a different story.
Like the auto industry, getting absolutely ridiculous in un-needed "technology" and totally unrealistic prices.
Is this technology or marketing gimmicks? Other than electronic derailleurs i see markwting gimmicks.
Everyone acts like the pros from 20 or 30 years ago werent aware of this stuff.
I like how everything gets cheaper to.manufacture but the price increases. Carbon frames are cheaper than steel, bonded aluminum cranksets are cheaper than cold forged, electronic derailleurs are cheaper than mechanical.
Disc brakes? According to the president of the french cycling union the riders hate them and they are exponentially raising the number of crashes
When the peloton went from centerpull brakes to side pull there wasnt a single pro who said we can go into corners faster or these side pull are unsafe. They said they were lighter we can go faster.
prices more than the technology. There's no way a sram XX1 eagle component or Di2 is priced with typical market margins. $3000-5000 just for the groupset? $1000+ powermeter cranks?
$200-300 for chris king headset? I challenge anyone to blindly identify those headset over a $30 headset from riding it.. Buying a top tier bike is the same price as a good used toyota corolla. I'll take the corolla.
@@rizzodrat3076 disc brakes
There's plenty of room for new tech. It's just that not every bike has to have it. Disc brakes on bikes aren't the cause of industry malaise, rather it's the industry losing sight of the fact that some folks want simpler bikes. The reality is also that people are buying the bikes that others rail against, so as long as that happens, they'll keep making those bikes. And while all the cool kids say that this tech is unnecessary or that's a gimmick, those are just opinions. It's up to the individual rider to determine what they want to ride, what they value, and what they need. That means none of us know what's best for someone else.
"Un-needed" is not an objective qualification. It's just an opinion. Frankly, it's the virtually the same word that every lover of older bikes has said about newer bikes. This kind of sentiment goes back decades.
@@javiersmith2216no one hates disc brakes except for road bikers. So we’ll just ignore that statement of yours. Disc brakes are far and away superior to rim brakes in every way
I wouldnt care if they all went out of business. The industry needs a pricing reset. Bike’s that cost more than dirt bikes is silly
Don't buy bikes then.
Comparing bikes to motorcycles is a completely apples-to-oranges comparison. That's not how markets work. That's now how pricing works. That's not how value is established. You'd learn as much in an Economics 101 class. It might be a satisfying opinion to have, but it would not solve any problems. Real-world problems don't have binary solutions.
Getting consumers to buy less expensive and simpler bikes will require not just providing those bikes but also changing consumer desires.
And making cheaper bikes isn't just about lowering prices. Economic factors influence the cost of materials and manufacturing. It's not just those dang greedy companies.
Solutions require a realistic approach and addressing all the factors that contribute to an issue. Of course, this is the internet and it is 2024, so we can only think in black and white.
Honestly, it sure seems that all anyone wants to do is piss and moan about issues and avoid at all costs any deep or critical thought about those issues.
if everyone involved in the manufacturing of bikes was actually paid decent wages the bikes would be 5x as expensive
it is what it is
no one is ever forced to buy
market conditions dictate pricing
@@robinseibel7540yeah I just like to piss and moan and I’m not reading that novel 😂. Appreciate the input
@@richarddecredico6098no one’s forced to work for poor wages
@@curtrobertson6799 you are one serious ignoramous
I was just reminiscing about the Bike Nashbar catalogue coming in the mail. If I couldn't get it locally, Bike Nashbar was the ticket.
I still have a Nash bar hand pump that fits in a saddle bag and works great
Nashbar is the www now. Saves trees and postage.
Nashbar was the Bomb! Used them from when I was riding as a kid in the early eighties to the day they went Bankrupt. Still ride use regularly a few of their saddles and a floor pump that is pushing 20 years old RIP Nashbar
@@kt31166 yep , what about PricePoint, I used to get stuff from them back in the day 🙂
@@monkmchorning Of course, but he mentioned the word grassroots and the wheels of nostalgia starting turning, pun intended.
Last year everyone was predicting Trek's demise. This year it's Specialized. Every bike shop has an expert who predicts doom and gloom for the industry. Seriously, I've been listening to it since 1972. Yes, markets change and some stalwart companies don't survive, but it never turns out the way they predicted.
One thing for sure is, it will be different.
Agreed. Been running a shop for 19 years and there's always ebbs and flows in the industry.
Specialized will be fine. They've rationalized their product line and I'm sure they've dialed back their production bigtime to suit demand, they've also massively slashed their marketing spend.
click bait headlines.... please stop.
A quality alloy or double butted tig welded steel frame, brightly painted with mechanical shifting and decent aluminum wheels would satisfy 90% of even the enthusiasts, make a decent margin, and, if they wanted direct to customer, survive savage delivery drivers. Owners might even surprise themselves that a sub 2k quality bike could do well in the market.
Add another thousand and you can get a modern bike with superior modern technology.
I was recently in Zurich (not bragging), I popped in a high end bike shop expecting to see BMC….I was surprised to see several S-Works SL8s…the guy in the shop said Specialized was the top seller.
Nice! Thanks for sharing.
Specialized Bikes and gear, such as helmets, shoes, and clothing, are fantastic. Customers will use Specialized as long as their products are excellent. For many, that is the bottom line, great bikes, E-Bikes, Road Bikes, Mountain Bikes- and great gear.
Great point!
Unfortunately you get what you pay for. A lot of my accessories are Specialized because it's the best.
Agreed! I even like their pouches & tie downs.
(Though so far as the wearables, they don't seem to make anything from any natural fibers, so I can't wear it against my skin... 🥵
Also, I'm too excessively tall (comparatively huge front area profile + weight), to get any worthwhile benefit from a
For the most part it's really good stuff, and the marketing is brilliant. Most of it doesn't work for me, but they have a lot of happy customers.
Specialized, Trek and somewhat Cannondale have expanded to the cult brand riders. They make a lot off of their clothing and accessories. Small groups that have sprung up to ride the wave don`t have that following to fall back on. Think Harley Davidson, they have a cult following and the motor clothes out pace their m/c sales 10 fold.
Too much inventory? I had to check the Specialized US site to check and you're right, you guys have all the sizes and colours of Tarmacs in stock. Here in Australia nothing is ever in stock. Specialized should just ship all their inventory overseas as I'm sure many markets will gladly have them.
I think it would be very costly to ship over there quickly (air freight) and take a good month or 2 to ship economically (boat) and then then have even more dated product that could have potentially sold over those months. It light work and sell over there.. but who knows. It’s still a gamble
Mexico is also low or out of stock in many sizes and models, maybe in the US it might seem like its overstocked but all those bikes eventually arrive in other countries and continents
Mountain bikes are pricing them selves out of business. How many 8 k bikes can most people afford ?
I dont think its the price. Its possibly people see no value in that price range. Its just a bicycle. I brought a new motorcycle instead.
Mtbs are worse than road bikes. Purely rec bikes. 8k to use once or twice a week when you go drive a few hours to a good place to ride is bonkers. 8k for a road bike could be your primary way to get around daily and pay itself off of you drop one car or even in fuel and parking over a few years
@@out_spockenHow many people commute on 8k road bikes? Usually they seem like budget rides.
Realistically a person with an average income shouldn't be purchasing a bike for that much money. Average take home income is around 40k in America. It would be insane to spend nearly a quarter of that on a mountain bike. I know people will say "make more money". That's the problem. When you have to be above average income to participate in a sport the sport is either going to die or shrink to a sport purely for the upper class.
Some of us that have been in the industry for some time are scratching our heads. WHY!
Walking into a LBS that has multiple brands is like a breath of fresh air. I wondered why "S" was everywhere. Thanks!
I'll add. I bought a Yeti at a "S" store since after test riding many many MTB it had the best reach for my body type. It climbs well too.
Bikes that cost as much or more than motorcycles are a problem and 80% of the market agrees.
This is all so different from my early cycling days in the U.K. In the sixties. Back then you only bought from your local shop where you got a made to measure hand built frame with any combination of colours and chrome and lug work for about your monthly income. Mine was a Fred Dean - beautiful.
Thanks for sharing.
Recreational rider. Recently retired baby boomer. Specialized advertised direct sales with the option to pickup at my LBS. Nice price drop on a few bikes but was limited. After I bought I sometimes saw that bike or size was then sold out. They are featuring a few other bikes now so I ordered a Sirrus X5 for the wife. Got my 6.0 on sale now hers. The LBS handle the service really nicely. I did buy accessories there. Pedals, Lights, Garmin, cages. Shoes were on sale too online. A few helmets are featured. Do I need a Specalized Prevail 3 over something on Amazon? The sale price of $209 from $300 is a nice price. Canyon or other direct sales bikes with no shops puts all your faith in yourself for service. Knowing I wanted a road bike the Roubiax pro on sale in my size is a great bike for someone over 60. Unfortunately going into the LBS you see the S-Works Tarmac and find you can order it online to your LBS They set it up. Give complimentary service. My size is now sold out. Specialized online to home or store is nice.
Specialized's direct-to-consumer strategy is a bit of a mixed bag. It’s nice to have the option to pick up at your local shop, but it can be frustrating when sizes and models are quickly sold out. Try to buy from the LBS directly so they get the full margin. Their program with their dealers is somewhat lacking and not as supportive as it should be. Thanks for sharing, and enjoy the ride!
My LBS just became a Specialized authorized dealer. Theyve been eputting together a ton of bikes over the past few weeks. Hoping it works out for them, theyve been in business for a long time. Theyve been a Jamis dealer for a long time too
You’re spot on about them missing the market. I live in southern Utah with two stores in our area. If you go there for a recreational type bike they will inform you that they will have to order it. They might have one or two in stock but not much else. So they try to sell you a more expensive bike and one way different than what you’re looking for. Typical sales stuff. Keep up the good work and continue doing what you do. Thanks
Thanks for sharing! I will, and thanks for watching! I just drove through Southern Utah. It's very pretty and looks like some fantastic riding. I'm in Vegas over the Holiday.
Interesting commentary. I didn't understand what you mean by "doubling down" on service. What does that entail for a shop that's already doing service for customers (which is most shops) ?
In every shop, you can always increase different levels of service. Which may include frame detailing, chain, waxing, also bringing back suspension work and other high-end or explicit services. That may also include different tuneup packages and also aggressive, marketing and turnaround time.
Pon holdings is Dutch.
Sorry, I'll correct next time. Got confused from my earlier video about Canyon.
Let’s hope so. They along with Trek have been trying to control/screw every independent bike dealer since the 80s. As well as try to chase every independent accessory brand out of shops by threatening/leveraging them to buy their private label accessories. I lived it. Here’s to the resurgence of independent brands and bike dealers. Good video.
Well I no longer go to LBS's anymore. I want to save money not pay more.
two of the worst companies ever.
Specialized ain't going nowhere.
i wish they would, and take Trek with them. Two companies hellbent on greed, both that have nearly ruined anything cool about cycling. Both are awful companies.
@@johnharrington2400 So cycling to you is about being "cool". Interesting.
The profit margin on a $15k S-Works Tarmac must be insane...
Make a 25mm axle, still rocking my Enduro and Allez. Shout out to Robert at Whittier Cyclery.
LBS = service with a tude at a premium cost. Mobile service van from a local non-national brand = quality service with appreciation for your business . At least I found a local service van that’s a stud. And he brings his shop to my driveway.
Nice. Thanks for sharing.
Great video, thank for making/sharing it.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Even with the current sales the prices of Specialized are still too high.
That GT RTS-1 was on my wishlist!
Merida still has a large amount of ownership of Specialized. They’re not going to let the company fall into trouble. Also Pon is a Dutch company, not German. But for sure it’s a lean time for everyone in the industry!
I think people who are looking for commuter bikes are going for the cheap Chinese e-bikes.
Many small or no-name companies have popped up and cut into the big brand markets.
If Merida are still holding their 49% in Specialized and still making their bikes in their Taiwan Factory I think they will survive, but who knows in this market??? Exciting, oh yes. Great video and talking points 👍👍👍👍
Thanks for watching and sharing. If it gets too bad, Pon Holdings may want to pursue them. We're at a point where anything can happen, and no brand is stable enough.
@@IKnowAGuyBicycles , that's certainly an opinion, but sadly there's not a lot of data out there on Speciallized's financials/company health. And not even Nostradamus could read the future. There are a lot of factors at play. Consider for a moment the tariffs that Trump claims he will put in place. That's likely to be a big negative for all cycling. Other companies may go under and that may give space to Specialized in the market. And didn't Pon just recently sell off some brand(s)?
I"'m no fan of Specialized at all. Even though Sinyard isn't there now, his stench remains, but I think if Specialized were to go under, it'd mean the industry was in far worse place than anyone imagined.
A lot of good content here, plenty of food for thought. I would personally question the marketing of such a large percentage of high end (expensive) bikes, and turning away entry level riders. I've been buying high end bikes all of my life and I'm even getting sticker shock at some of the mid priced bikes....
Couldn't agree more!
Canyon just teamed up with...REI. There's major problems with DTC and all it takes is one pissed off driver. Destroyed custom bicycles and other issues. There's a picture of a Canyon box that looks like the tines of a forklift were driven through it. I'll stick to the LBS, as we have one of the best, if not the best here, Fair Wheels.
FYI, it _is_ possible to get shipping that covers any damages. When shipping something that costs thousands, it's unwise to cheap out on the transport.
Still costs a lot less than paying retail markup, too; well worth it, in my opinion!
I just hope they close down. It's now a heartless company that lost itself pursuing ridiculous margins.
Dream on. They're a bit of a dick company with their silly lawsuits, NDAs, and employment contracts. But they're not stupid, just going through a rough patch, like the rest of the industry.
I suspect part of the problem is bike manufacturers have cannibalized their own sales by offering so many options. Frames only, there's models for each discipline, alu or carbon, multiple sizes and colours... and that's just the frame. So much inventory.
That's why Trek reduced their SKU's by 40% this year.
Started in Campbell, not Morgan Hill. Moved to San Jose, then to Morgan Hill.
Bike shops can not survive on service income to stay open. Best case is making 10k a month on repairs that doesn’t even cover rent/mortgage and operating expenses. The only way to make a profitable shop doing just service is to do it out of your house or mobile.
I'm just a customer, so please forgive my ignorance. I just want to point out that "service" doesn't only mean "repairs and tune ups".
There are two other services that I will happily pay for: bike fits and pre-sale consultations. Both of these services will probably increase as the distribution model shifts toward direct-to-consumer sales. I.e. I would pay for a consultation and a bike fit, which would then inform which specific bike to buy, even if the bike itself is a direct-to-consumer sale.
Perhaps I am stupid, I'm just describing what I would pay for. A traditional sale commission places the wrong incentives on the LBS, because they want me to buy whatever they have in stock, while the pre-sale model I described at the beginning makes them brand and model agnostic.
@ I don’t think people would pay for consultation services.
Service is the only thing keeping the lights on for bike ships? For us it's that plus quality brand name mid-drive e-bikss. And while mountain bike sales are down, mountain bike parts and accessories continue to do very well. But without the e-bikes we'd be having a hard time, so it's mostly about the e-bikes for us to be honest.
Do you provide service/rebuilds on the motorized portion of the drivetrain?
this has always been the dynamic in the bike shop industry .... all about service ... no one has ever made serious bank on sales
@@prophetzarquon The e-bikes we sell, the motors are sealed units engineered to last the life of the bike. So, no. It's a warranty process if it's within warranty, or a replacement process otherwise. But we've been selling e-bikes for 21 years and sold 2 or 3 motors in that entire time. On my personal e-bike my motor's at 21k kilometres and going strong. One of my customers is now over 41k kilometres and still counting. It just doesn't seem to be much of an issue.
I love when prices gi down, good for us customers. When they went up was good for you - stores.
Its a sad day when I'm actually happier to just buy Asian branded wares rather than pay some obscene markup for a western company to stamp their name on a product they couldn't even produce if they wanted to.
There is some truth to that.
Sorry to tell you, Specialized started in San Jose. Just up the road from Morgan Hill.
I thought they originally started in Campbell?
@@RG-d2b that is correct! Small industrial space in Campbell and then moved to Jury Court in San Jose (just off Old Oakland Road aka 13th st.).
Agree on entry level market statements. Well known that selling one high end bike same profit dollars as selling 5 entry level bikes, or doing 10-12 repairs (tunes let’s say). So there are ground level market forces that dictate where IBD’s spend their money in a given market. The 10-12 entry level sales and or the tunes build your business. And the high end purchase is more about dollars and sense. One other thing to think about is that the big four completely embodies the abandonment of the entry level when it comes to e-bikes. The growth end of the bike market right now, and most profitable, and they completely missed the boat at the entry level. They abandoned it to low-level low quality producers who have taken the time to gain market share and improve their offerings in the $900-$1500 price window that the big four could have dominated and dictated if they weren’t so high and mighty
Great points, thanks for sharing.
Why do a lot of people hate on them , I’ve had 4 specialized bikes and they been great I’ve had no problems for years and years 🚲
The bike industry has been continually reinventing itself for years now, I remember when the Made in Taiwan bikes were first hitting the market. Having worked in several bike shops over the years, that process of reinventing has also made victims of the industry. I feel like I had the chance of a lifetime to experience the advent of the industry technology starting in the early 80's through to the 90's some might think that this has no historical value, but it does in so many ways. Seams to be smaller markets for parts, and custom bikes making a come back as some older quality bikes are saved from the scrap pile to live another life through a hand crafting painting and building of each one to suit .....
Great insights. Thank you for sharing!
People wake up to China! I build bikes for 1500 bucks and I like them better than the big brands. Last one was a F 12 and it was awesome and beautiful, I chose from 50+color schemes .This has been Ali-express and I have used them for 7 years! Most of the bike industry is farmed in China!
Do you mind posting a picture of some of the bikes you build? I may be interested in one, especially with the variety of colors you mentioned. 0:38
With online brands selling bikes 1000$ less than bike shop brands it hasn’t helped those companies either . I bought my last 3 frames and most parts online just because it’s cheaper and I live in a small town , it’s easier for me to order parts than drive 30 min to go to a bike shop that might not have what I need .
The internet is definitely changing the industry.
I bought a 22 stumpy s works in 22 2k off...$9k.
24 T type in sale for $5k. What's my. Junk worth?!?
The value will come back maybe, but in 3-4 years.
@IKnowAGuyBicycles not unless there's another plandemic...if spesh selling a 2024 s works for $6k on their own website ):
It's not going to increase in value
@@EvMc305You are correct, it’s not coming back. Just like 2020 Vettes and a lot of EVs. Most things depreciate, nothing we can do but go out and enjoy it. Ride it for a long time and it will matter less. I have a 20 year old sports car and would love a newer one but the price to fun factor makes me keep my current car. Same was true with my 10 year old bike until my back started hurting on every ride! 😂
There are things happening at Specialized that a TH-camr or shop owner has no idea about.
I'm sure. There are a lot of moving parts to a complex company like Specialized.
Mike Sinyard was around long before the Morgan Hill mountain bike days. He used to visit a shop I worked at in the very early seventies selling Campagnolo components out of the trunk of his car.
Thanks for sharing!
do more research on this company, it isn't good, from the earliest days he was hellbent on copying others and driving everyone else away. His current company and Trek are absolutely horrible companies.
Sounds familiar “too big to fail” I bought a brand new Niner 9 air was $2000.00 got it for $1200.00 made it into a killer EBike
not getting political here but Tariffs are going to work against any chance of lower price points if they are applied more broadly unless manufacturing is brought back and then labor and everything else will essentially be as expensive or more than the tariffs. The biggest issue is the expectations of unsustainable profits and any reduction profit is seen as failure
It's going to be adding gas to an already dumpster fire. It's going to be really bad for the big 4 and others. Used market will be great.
@IKnowAGuyBicycles used .Arnett angle is something that didn't occur to me, I have more ebikes than I need in stock so I would welcome a return to increased value
Direct to customer is the model of the future. I love Specialized. I would never buy a bike from an independent bike shop. I would always skip the middle man.
A lot of riders feel the same way. What would you use a local bike shop for? Warranty, Small Parts, Service?
you love a horrible company, great, nobody could make a comment like you did that knew what cycling was like in the 80s. It wasn't like this. It's become some souless, greedy dorky world. You wouldn't buy a bike made by a individual? Only a Corporate entity that doesn't care about anything except money? That's sad that we live in a world where people have lost sight of what cool is, preferring to roll over for some enormous company that has no interest in anything except money....Trek is even worse. You praise even more greed, straight to the customer? Wow.
Like car manufactures they will continue to build extremely expensive price point. Raleigh is gone no more M-80 for $600. These companies want the $1000 profit per bike not $20 on a $400 bike. Mom and pop shops are doing fine as long as they didn't sell their soul to any brand. The customer is what matters. Servicing electric bikes, online order customer and the $5 customer needing ends and outs... still simple but hard. I'm happy my bike shop is well established and loved by me and many others. Thanks
Thanks for sharing.
I was a late convert to Specialized only because my LBS was appointed a retailer. Otherwise there's choices in this part of the world (which is small to Specialized) but an opportunity for the newly emerging Chinese bike brands who to all intents and purposes are owning the accessory market here already. And a components brand like Wheeltop has bought the more well known Rotor buoyed by support in their growing China market.
Make Metal Matrix Great Again.
The 2025 frame colors are not the best
news flash: Specialized does not manufacture bikes, they order bikes and slap their name on them. Pon is not germen, they are swamp germen( Netherlands).
What's the difference between paying your employees or paying someone else's employees? It's still made to the same spec.
@@notreally2406 you are paying for the factory owners markup thus you are paying more.
I just bought a $6500 Yamaha ebike for $3500! I'm sorry, but i kinda like the bike industry in hard times!!
If they have it in stock, there will be excellent deals in the future. Thanks for sharing!
What about the genre that is growing in sales? Do you know what genre that is? You failed to even acknowledge it. 😮 Whats up w dat?
Bizarre new pickle FTW... yikes...
This is gonna be very interesting the next couple of years...😬
Right!?!? I think the Used market is going to boom!
Specialized bike shops here in Rio de Janeiro Brazil are bad, they will push you to buy a Medium 5k bike for a XL rider, the mechanics are not able to do a simple suspension maintenance, they will brake your bike doing simple mechanics and will not pay for the riders prejudice... really sad for me that got my first Specialized Rock Hopper in 91 at Huntington Beach Specialized shop and had some others Specialized bikes...
Thanks for the info!
I've been in/around the biz since the mid-1980's, both retail and wholesale. I like the way you describe Merida's "huge investment" in the Big-S. Just like with Fisher earlier (with supplier Pacific) "Kim Il Sinyard" was way upside-down, owing Merida piles o' dough. Only way out for him was to surrender 1/2 of the Big-S. But unlike in the USA, Merida has zero issues competing with Big-S in Europe. I wouldn't shed a tear if the hypocrite/bully Big-S swirled down-the-drain, other than what it might mean for the rest of the industry...where I still have some friends. Good luck with Big-S following any of your suggestions...don't hold your breath!
They are not going to listen to a little guy like me. But some of their IBDs may. They will somehow pull through, but what will that look like?
Specialized stores going to become Polygon locations lol
I'm not familiar with the industry from a business perspective, but as a consumer cycling has always been expensive. I rode bikes as kid in the 70's, rode in college in the 80's, and started riding again in my 40's in 2011. I started with an E5 Allez, which was $800. I rode that for three months, sold it on Craigslist for $750, and upgraded to a Tarmac SL2 Elite. That was my first carbon bike and it was $2300 with SRAM Apex. I upgraded the wheels to the Roval Fusee 5 Star. The retail cost on those were $1,000, and I also had to upgrade to an Ultegra cassette to run those wheels. That was an additional $100 cost. All in we're at $3400 excluding clips, bottle cages, trip computer, and lights. This was hardly inexpensive, but I viewed that bike as a long term investment in my health and quality of life. I loved that bike and the local bike store gave me free tune-ups for life and a discount on my purchase. Tune-ups now start at $100 in Dallas for any bike, so retailers aren't completely innocent with the escalating cost to participate in cycling. I'm now 59, still in great shape, and ride a Tarmac SL8 Pro. I love riding this bike and get compliments every time I ride it. Was it super expensive for me? Absolutely, but worth every penny. I wanted to introduce my lady to cycling, so we searched on FB Marketplace and found her a gem. I purchased a 2017 49cm Allez for $760. This was almost the same price as when the bike was new, but it had just been serviced, was in like new condition, and it was next to impossible to find one in her size. She loves her bike, but it still was not inexpensive, even for a 7 year old bike. Moral to the story, Specialized makes amazing bikes that will last many years with proper servicing, but they're not going to be cheap new or used, and you can find one at any budget with a little research.
Thanks for sharing your journey.
What Specialized and other manufacturers need to do is STOP DEVELOPING TRENDY BIKES
I just bought a rockhopper (base model) 2025 for 675.
I must say having a bike with the max chainring of 36/22 and 34 single ring was a little disappointing 😞
A person has to push a lot of watts just to get those 29 inch tires up to speed.
Specialized RAISED their prices on the 2025 bikes when they should have been smashed!! How’s that for right sizing your business?! 😂
As long as bicycle manufacturers charge obscene prices, I will continue to build my bikes with direct to consumer framesets.
me too
It all comes down to market segmentation, product mix, and pricing. They can serve all the different markets you state but have to spec, price, and set volumes accordingly. Any CPG brand manager can do the analysis, it’s not that hard. Hard part is getting leadership to listen. Leaders want $$$. I haven’t done the work but more entry level bikes with the appropriate gear, and fewer high bikes (maybe custom ordering experience), and then a mix of service. That could work. Another thing to consider is addressing how to get people to trade in/buy more often. I rode my road bike for 10+ years and it was still great. I only got a new for a different geometry that was easier on my back. Bikes are not cars and can be kept for a very long time so that’s another challenge for the industry.
Focusing on the used market is a great direction. Trade in events for store credit and give a less expensive option for those just getting into riding. Building a community of customers should be the focus, but it should not always be the bottom line. Thanks for sharing.
Actually you will less less innovations.... some companies like Canyon only changing the color schemes for the 2025 year on some of their high end bikes to keep costs down.
It is over due for a major reset and we are the only industry that does not let brands or companies go out of business and disappear. Way to many options and products that are the same with different names. Also lets throw in the fact the bread and butter models or customers for the shops are getting fewer. So what I see and what we have been doing is a strong focus on repairs with great customer service. I also think the service side can be better supported by the companies we sell.
Great points, thanks for sharing!
Thank you, great content.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Entry level is where it’s at. The mass majority is not out buying $6,000 bikes.
No, entry level is having issues too. One high end bike is better for the margin than 5 low end biles
The recent pink bike poll had spezzy way ahead all other brands, whatever is they do it works.
They are priced to the moon but they make good bikes.
If they had bikes available that they list online I would purchase bikes from Specialized but they don't and don't provide an option to order either - I would be happy to wait as pre-order but this is also not possible. One can go to stores but they also cannot get them.
road bicycle sellers have priced the consumers out of the market. upselling people on unneeded disc brakes and charging more as the bikes got heavier. unacceptable. I want an affordable bike, not a warm hug and having my pocket picked.
Im a die hard Specialized fan and absolutely love the brand. Next summer I'm ready to buy my first mountain E bike and test rode their high end Levo dual suspension. I couldnt believe how amazing it was. THEN i saw the new Pinion MGU with a belt drive online coming out of that German trade show. If Specialized doesnt deliver this new superior technology they wont get my money. Please Specialized- ADAPT ASAP
When Amflow (Dji) bikes hit the us shores in a few weeks it’s going to be tough for these old bike companies to compete
For Suply chain and compatibilty between products chain driven bikes gonna be the standard specially because major development comes with transmision brands. The fact that something is new doesnt mean better on the long run
Carbon belt drive is superior at low loads; at higher loads, chain remains more efficient. The harder you're working, the more a belt works against you.
Chainbox shifters, _are_ probably the future; even though at the moment they're still pretty heavy, _extremely_ expensive (because proprietary), & not much range of shift in gear ratio.
Internally geared shifters avoid debris buildup, but due to simple physics of leverage & moving parts, they're less strong & higher drag (& higher weight _and_ higher price _and_ less modularly repairable\customizable) than big tall cassettes (& chainrings).
So, for casual riding at low efforts, belt drive & IGH are wonderful. For getting the most out of your maximum effort, cassette is still king.
I own several Spesh bikes and also own several Santa Cruz and Giant .... lots of companies make great bikes
Brand loyaly for bike companies is silly ... people that who lock in one one company and love everything that company does are myopes
@@prophetzarquon hahahahahaha
people been saying that same sh*t for 40 years
chains are better than belts for a host of pragmatic reasons ... period
Judging by how pricey Spesh's bikes are and people snapping them up, I think they'll do okay. I love their tires and saddles so I just pay full price.
Didn’t pro closet go out of business?
Yes, they did, and the name was bought by an investment company. They hired two former employees. I made a video on it. th-cam.com/video/wdDrKwiPpw8/w-d-xo.html
Worked at a great bike store. Sold mostly recumbents, also had specialized Giant and 1-2 other small boutique brands. Recumbents paid the bills and kept the lights on. Everything else was gravy. Specialized went direct so we picked up Giant.
Thanks for sharing!
I don't see how it makes sense to simultaneously complain about discounting prices and then complain that prices are too high. Yes, a marketing plan of working the smallest market, high-end bikes, won't be successful. It's tough enough to compete with poorly assembled but really cheap prices of the big box stores, but looking down one's nose at recreational riders, the largest market, isn't the path to success. It seems that Specialized and other bike manufacturers are run by enthusiasts rather than business people.
Great point, thanks for sharing.
$7k, $9K, $12k for a bike? I’m not sure how they could…You have these manufacturers making their frames in China, they all look the same btw-same carbon curved frames for the past 5 years or so, with Chinese low wages, how are they justified in selling a ridiculously expensive bike without passing the saving onto the consumer? I have/had USA made bikes for the past 40 years(yes, some Chinese components) but the frames were at least made by Americans, and they do not cost that much. Specialized, Cannondale, the non defunct GT can all go down the drain. They had a money grab for a long time, they offer nothing for the new rider but the same ol’ thing.
In the last 5 years, seem to be only about profit.
@ you know, I’m ok with a profit, but it seems like they were not thinking long term. Now, maybe that’s the industry, I do not know. I do know(not trying to live in the past), there was so much innovation in the sport in the 90’s, GT especially. What I am seeing is “unmotivated innovation”, it reminds me of Shimano’s Biopace system. Now, Im not against the innovation, but at what cost. I think what I really miss is the loss of USA frame/bike builders.
Goog question. The bicycle industry is all about marketing. Sponsor a pro team and you have more pricing power than any other industry but the pharmaceutical industry.
There is a possibility that one of the holding companies who sponsors multiple pro teams out bids specialized for sponsorship. This would increase the pricing power of the holding company and cut down the competition. I can see that happening.
Great point, thats for sharing!
I hate single brand bike stores. When I go to a store I want to see are range of brands. Single brand stores make it hard to compare brands, offerings and value without spending a significant amount of time driving around town from one store to another trying to A/B bikes. And from what I can see recently the single brand stores are starting to look like they are dying business they look like hollowed out shells of their former selves. The reality is bikes just aren’t prestigious items and pretending that they are and artificially over inflating the price, Just doesn’t work in the long term
Great points, thanks for sharing!
Ebikes are all the rage now i picked up a Yamaha half off. Waiting for it to show.
That’s what you have coming for killing the rim brake for profits.
Next year, the Astana team will ride a Chinese bike, X-Lab. Shimano DA DI2, Vision 60mm wheels.. As it´s raced in road competitions, it´s UCI approved. I´ve seen it priced at $7.700 over the counter. Can you tell where the silly overpriced Western brands are heading??????? Rgr
Interesting! Thanks for sharing.
You could do like Johnny Nerd out install mid drives into peoples bikes it’s very easy opens up a whole new avenue of work I bought a kit from him installed it myself love it!
Perhaps you favor a Lemond to a Specialized, hmmm???!!!
If there's one bike brand I hope goes out of business , its's Specialized. Boring bikes that are a dime a dozen onthe road. The pricing is similar to a pair of Air jordans - you're paying way too much for the markeitng hype that's injected into mass produced carbon molded frames. I do like some of their MTB shoes though.
Unwanted tech and unrealistic prices
Yes, Specialized will survive because they are backed heavily by Chinese investments (that Specialized sought out)
Rightfully no, they lost the point of bikes building them for the rich elites, just like cars at $100k+. We the people just don’t care about the latest greates and lightest. We want durable, easy to fix bike and cars for that matter.
To much $$$ They are selling bikes for Motorcycle prices. ebikes are the future.
Not a surprise they were so much overpriced. For ~€$£2500 i understand i won't get carbon wheel bike but at least some good alloy like Zonda fulcrum quattro or dt with 350hub instead they want 3000+ for a bike which stands on some s** with Shimano ball bearing hub...for that money. All that bike manufacturere think customers are stupid or can't count their money
Specialized blatantly copied No tubes rim design and tried to crush No tubes with a bigger legal budget. Glad No tubes won the lawsuit. Specialized lost my business at that point.
If you discount right off the bat with a new customer, don't you get the relationship off on the wrong foot? Won't they expect discounts going forward? I'm not saying nickel and dime every customer, I'm saying value your time, tools, and expertise.
The consumer perspective is quite confusing, and this has been going on for two years now. They are now conditioned not to buy unless it's on sale, which would be the standard pricing going forward.
Basic inventory management. Unless your product is hands down the best, the higher the price, the slower it will sell. You can't make all $10k+ bikes for the gen pop. Yes, there are some of us that will pay $$ to save 600 grams but that's not your bread and butter. Cycling is not alone in learning this lesson. Take a look at the auto industry. Same issues, different product. At the base of it all is greed. Not it's the consumer's time to show how we feel about it.
You made some good points but IMO this shines a light on industry identity problem; too many models, multiple and conflicting distribution models coupled LBS apathy for regular riders. I really want to support my LBS but they make it hard. I want to support my bike brand but they make it hard...and the list goes on. Unlike the US car industry there is no bailout coming.
Good point, thanks for watching.
Surprise surprise you do surmise that the industry should reach out to independents. Okay, that does not address the looming tax tariffs that will hit the Taiwan/China made bike industry. Too late to bring meaningful production back onshore, in 35 years no-one has seen this market. Add in the e-bike and scooter share gobble, tis a mess!
Shoot I'm a department store bike fixing mother trucker!
Right on the money,,, Going with the simple rider is a great way too move forward... Biking is fun,,, keep it simple and make it fun... Thanks for sharing. Western Canada Don 😊
Thanks for watching! Enjoy the ride.
The biggest thing steering me away from specialized is the price, absolutely no way when I can get bikes with the same components and performance/feature value for 30% less. The brand is over its head if it wants to charge what it is for their standard bikes. S-Works is a different story.