1:58 Surprising only to Americans and Brits. You get a lot of family owned companies in Europe. For example VW Group is the largest family owned company in the World and BMW is also family owned.
Just watch a video from GC Performance, in the last section of the video talked about where bike manufacturers giving just about any dealership their brand to sell without having to buy inventory wondering if, wondering if your bike shop is seeing the same thing?
Pon is not a bicycle company. It is a holding corporation that owns several bicycle companies. Unless these individual manufacturers are all rebranded as Pon bikes it cannot be considered as so.
If they could come in and handle the sales like a car dealership, it may be beneficial. Instead of the shop having to buy a large inventory to stay in the network, just have distribution centers and allow the shops to carry minimal inventory, or better yet, just a demo fleet and then PON can ship from the distribution center in a matter of days once the bike is bought. Shipped to the shop, not the customer. Customer gets to test ride and shop is only out the cost of a demo bike.
This is great. This is essentially how I would like to operate. Unfortunately this doesn't work for all customers. Some customers need a bike THAT DAY. And I had one such customer where we ended up giving him one of our fleet of demo bikes until his bike arrived. Not optimal but we did our best to make him happy and meet his demands under the circumstances. Only so much you can do as a small local bike shop with barely any funding. But thats how I survived covid, was by not having my assets tied up.
@@diehardbikes If the above system that I described above was in place, you could have looked to see if another shop under the PON holding umbrella had his bike, and had it transferred over. I’d say you could have a demo fleet, that you are responsible for buying, and then have some stock, but not as much as some of the big name companies require.
Unfortunately, unlike cars, bikes must be in MANY different sizes of each model for a test drive...leading to inventory approaching what many cycle shops carry today.
@@georgehugh3455 100%. I work at a shop, and what people expect from a shop is so varied. For a customer who doesn't know the difference between a bike and a bike shaped object, they often get hard to deal with due to unreal expectations. Sure, they can go to a big box store, bure a BSO for half the price and get it the day of. It's impossible for full service shop to carry inventory of multiple models in every size, potentially multiple specs, in just the color they want, so they can leave with the bike they need on the same day. I'm all for the demo fleet system, its close to what we try to do already, we cant afford to not sell a floor bike (which temporarily leaves us a gap in our size run for customers to try).
I think that one of the reason the prices of the bike are so fu....high is because the concentration of the brands. Today we have 4 companies that now the market.
Haven’t worked with Pon directly but have been at a Santa Cruz shop since 2008. No change happened really when pon took them over. Have been able to meet the grandkids of the pon empire and party with them a bunch. Great down to earth family it seems they just have a shit ton of money.
So far PON seems to purchase brands and keep them on the same playing field they were on when purchased. I would love nothing more than GT/Schwinn to make quality bikes again
When the bean counters runs the company. You need to give up hope they’ll ever release a quality product. Even if it costs a few cents extra. Since it doesn’t fit the bottom line. To squeeze as much profit, by spending the least amount of money to produce a product.
@Ikreisrond hard to understand why in the EU now, VW would need some kind of middleman between them and VW dealers, it would only make the vehicles more expensive. He mentions import, but there is no import or customs clearance now between these 2 countries. Doesn't make sense.
Someone explain to me how Pon holdings operating in the US will create competition. Better product at lower prices? Do we really want a holdings group monopolizing the industry?
It seems like a lot of these bike shops are truly beholden to these big bike companies, Specialized, Giant or Trek. Other brands that offer similar offerings are squeezed out of the store. If stores can work with Pon and their many brands, there may be more selection. Bicycles made by the big brands seem rather high priced as well. Perhaps this Pon company will offer similar bikes at a lower price to gain market share.
This kind of vertical integration is one of the things the US Anti Trust laws are specifically supposed to stop. An example being the movie studios were stopped many years ago when they tried to buy cinemas. Ticketmaster buying venues should also have been stopped but wasn't because the people supposed to be looking out for the consumer by breaking monopolies or preventing them from occurring in the first place are kept underresourced and quite likely paid to stay asleep at the wheel by the massive lobbying money corporate interests feed into the government. The last big move the Anti Trust laws were applied to was breaking up the Bell Telephone company in 1982, which created an explosion in telephone options and innovation as well as plummeting bills for consumers right through the '80s, and helped kick off affordable internet access with modems in the 90s. It's as bad as ever now though as the mobile phone companies have carved up the market between them either buying up or paying off their competition. Comparing the massive difference in price between US and EU mobile phone plans is a dead giveaway that the telecom monopoly is back in the US and it's ripping everyone off again - a calls, texts and unlimited data plan that costs €10 a month in the EU is more like $50+ a month in the US. At least the EU look like they're taking some of the corporations to task with the new laws they're working on which define companies with more than a certain market share as 'gatekeepers' to the market they are in, enforcing obligations on them to open their platforms. A good example of a gatekeeper would be Google's internet search, which is still most people's go-to option, but has become increasingly useless as all the results on the first pages are paid for at this point, whether they're relevant or not, so google now control whether people will even find your business, as well as whether the feedback about it, good or bad is expressed honestly. Another outcome of this is that it looks like Whatsapp and facebook messenger will be forced to allow users from other apps to send and receive messages to them, again because they're effectively gatekeeping the industry because you must install their app to chat conveniently with most of the people in the EU. Apple's chat is in the same situation in the US, but I doubt they'll do anything unless they're forced to by the US laws - they certainly made no effort to use the same charging plug as everyone else until the EU forced them.
Crazy thing is in the last 20 years or so that's how our economy has gone.Capital groups owning everything putting managers in place to run them.All about that bottom line
This is a business move to me. Buying brands and shutting them down eliminates competition. The only brands you sell are the brands the pro teams ride. This way your profit margins increase. Look for pon to try to get into retail. This way they can dominate local mkts and increase their market power.
I try to target the little manufacturer for my cycling stuff. I support custom bespoke builders not big well known brands that have investors and distribution chains that mark up price every step of it's way to me. Why should I support that model? I'm obviously not getting a good value or a product worth that much money. Years ago when Cannondale was made in America I used to only buy Cannondale bicycles but then they sold out to investment companies and that ended that loyalty, I haven't bought one since. Buying from a one guy fabricator I also get custom fitted and built to my body and spec. I don't think people realize how much more you get from going with a custom builder.
Not entirely a true statement; I've had 2 custom fitted and built bicycles, Bruce Gordon Rock & Road touring & a Bernie Mikkelsen road bike@@tubecated_development Not custom ( Pinarello Dogma$15,500 & Specialized Road S works $14'000)
Capital grows faster than labor (because it is a scam) eventually there will be one big bike company -owned by a oil company- and it will be illegal not to buy one.
You are right. Eliminating competition is one goal of Capitalism. Some claim that it's an efficient system. However, I think that stops when there are only a few big companies.
Giant primarily manufactures most of its bikes in Taiwan, but also has additional production facilities in China and the Netherlands. Just depends what product it is.
Yes they contract out their manufacturing capabilities. Not many companies want to make a carbon mold, engineer the layup, and buy the press and hundred other special tools to make a frame, nor hire all their own employees to do every step involved. Same goes for aluminum if you're hydro forming. The only materials that just two bros can enter the market with anymore is steel and ti because they are far more approachable in terms of cost and skill entry into the business, which is why you see about a hundred little hipster steel frame brands in the United States, though there are just a couple exceptions of boutique brands doing the other materials too.
PON Holdings...I work for a BIG BOX Sporting Goods retailer know as DIck's Sporting Goods. PON is who I get ALL my bicycles from...and repair parts and support to. Its kind of a one stop shop for all things bike.
I purchased my Santa Cruz Chameleon from Mikes Bikes here in Petaluma. I remember them sending an email stating they were bought out by a Dutch company. Specialized got pisssed because they were looking to purchase Mikes Bikes at the same time. Which made sense since they were a huge retaler for Specialized. Will we know who won the the bid and all Specialized Bikes were pulled for future allocation. Mikes discounted alot of the Specialized gear and bikes that were left on the shelves. So basically atleast here in the Petaluma Store. Santa Cruz, Giant, and Salsa are the big names they sell.
What is the most puzzling in all of it is that Schwinn,Mongoose, GT, Cervelo, Focus and Cannondale are all related. When you see the crap made by the first two it makes you wonder if they all those brands are on the same planet
Have to question how PON Holdings in rapidly and aggressively acquiring a 40% market share is 'helping competition'? Sounds like they are trying to build a monopoly. The bicycle business is going to go through a big shake up, because of greedy corporations who are designing bicycles and equipment by people who never ride them. The race led bicycle vein is about mined out. Prices at the retail point don't necessarily reflect the manufacturing cost plus a reasonable margin. Before Raleigh closed their factory in Nottingham, they had started sourcing bicycles from abroad. A bike was costing Raleigh £8 in a carton leaving the factory, but selling at £600. Yes, there are distribution costs, and a reasonable profit, but was the profit reasonable? The other issue is durability. Components are not durable, especially so, given the initial cost. It seems they are designed to fail, to ensure production lines keep running and to create a constant revenue stream. This is all backed up by marketing hype via the cycling media. You never read or hear a bad review, the latest thing is always the dogs whiskers, and the prices keep going up and up. 2024 will see a change in the market.
Curious which components or parts of bikes are built to fail at a quicker rate than previously? And proof source? I feel like Campagnolo genuinely made stuff built to last as that is what I own. The wheels and my drivetrains are no newer than 2017, they are absolutely flawless!
How about experience as the source? Not from a magazine, video, but on the road miles. Same chain on a bike for 2 years covering around 15,000 miles per annum. Same bottom bracket as well. Find me a modern bike that can do that. @@tommyfreckmann6857
I'm still riding a 1978 Jack Taylor with Maeda Suntour Cyclone derailleurs. Hubs are Mavic 501, which are good for 50,000 miles between bearing changes. I raced on Campag Nuovo Record and Super Record back in the late 1970s/early 1980s. I had hub axles break, hub flanges crack and I know of the titanium BB axles breaking along with pedal axles. Campag was good kit and a lot better quality back then, but it still broke in use. 2017 might be a long time for modern components to last, but will it still be usable over 40 years later? @@tommyfreckmann6857
The quality of Raleigh frames skyrocketed when they moved production to Taiwan. I commuted on a Raleigh MTB back in the mid 90s and the frame would develop fatigue cracks and I'd get another one on warranty every 2 years max due to fatigue cracking at the welds, until they discontinued the model I was using and replaced the bike entirely with a Taiwanese welded frame. The Taiwan made frame lasted me almost the next 20 years of daily commuting before fatigue (And running it singlespeed on a new work commute that included just short of 100 m of climb in less than 1 km) broke a chainstay. The Nottingham welded frames genuinely looked like they'd been thrown together by a farmer with an arc welder in a shed, right down the the weld spatter sealed under the paint, while the Taiwanese frame has minimalist, even TIG welds - and the failure on the Taiwanese one wasn't at a weld anyway.
🤯 at your grocery store problem. I have a food basics, walmart, farm boy, super store, fresh co and sobeys all within a 4 km radious. If i go just 6 km there's also a farmers market.
In bike land it is all about the marketing. Sponsoring a pro team gives brands unbelievable pricing power. The thing that makes bikes unique is there are only a few opportunities to sponsor a team. This is the biggest reason bikes are so expensive. There are other reasons too like limiting distribution partners and dominating local markets e.g.,walmart, home depot or even your local paint stores.
Well just for fun last November I ordered at my LBS a new Santa Cruz stigmata 4. ETA on this paid for order from November is may 2024. A simple rival build nothing fancy in size large. “Mikes bikes” last Friday listed a minimum of 3 in stock ready to ship in every size in every build. Nice for a company to worry more about their factory store than the sold orders at the LBS they claim to support. I have contacted them about this and have received no reply at all.
Bike brands no longer manufacturing frames at their own factories makes them less of a bike brand. When you give up control of manufacturing. The quality of the bike suffers. The ODM and OEM factories don’t care if the products they put out are of inferior quality. Since it’s not their reputation of their brand that’s on the line.
Isn't that also about the exact same time that bicycle prices started raising to the absolute ridiculous prices they're at now. It's amazing I can buy carbon fiber for a third if not a quarter of what it cost 15 years ago as well as the resins and materials that you need for it. Yet the bikes even with inflation accounted for are still up at least 50 to 100% minimums. Would that happen to be because of one company buying up a bunch of companies and then inflating the price... We've seen this happen to many many different markets throughout history and especially in recent times
Yah Yah, big bucks = bigger bucks, biggest nightmare is when behemoth companies sell off and dissolve to keep the grabs going. Competition, HAH, when the biggest gets the majority, innovation is put out to pasture.
Hmm. Focus once had some interesting and somehow unique bikes. Not anymore. Cannondale once was very original and innovative. Not anymore. I do not think that they will allow them to be innovative again. Sadly, overall only a uniform sauce of average bikes in the Pon portfolio. Cervelo perhaps somehow stands out, but how long?
Seems like a sizeable piece of the pie goes to cervelo and santa cruz, the flagship brands in their portfolio. SC only benefitted from the acquisation, more models, lower linkage vpp on all trail/enduro bikes, better colours (in my opinion), while maintaining the build quality and serviceability. Focus/pon should at least have kept the mares in the lineup, great handling bike that was very popular when jeremy powers was riding it. No idea why they pulled it, it was perfect already so no real development costs necessary except for a new colourway every year..
@@Bonky-wonky Similar thoughts here. After Mike Kluge stepped out, Focus became unfocused and the Mares was abandoned. Glad to still use one. Same thing with the old Raven. I am not so sure about SC, my usual shop has them, but there is nothing specially appealing, at least for me. Cervelo has nothing interesting in the MTB range. And Cannondale ruined the lefty with abandoning the needle bearings. Bad times for bike shopping.
You forgot to mention Reserve wheels which was spun off from Santa Cruz Bikes. I ended up buying 3 Reserve wheelsets in the last two months because of the incredible lifetime warranty, similar to the Santa Cruz bike lifetime warranty. You should work on an episode on how warranties have changed in the industry. Last year, Race Face and Ibis Cycles both added lifetime warranties as well, including wheelsets, probably because of Reserve wheels. Last month was the first time I shopped at Mike's Bikes, which is where I bought my Reserve wheelsets, a Juliana Wilder CC (Santa Cruz Blur), and a Santa Cruz Highball CC. My experience was extremely positive. Pon's plan is working it seems, at least for this shopper.
The weird thing about PON is that they're a black hole- any 'name' that gets sucked inside seems to disappear. I haven't seen a new C-dale, GT, or Mongoose in years....
What? Cannodale just launched a whole new line of Supersixs last year, as well as the Synapse and Topstone. I see them daily on rides and Miles bikes are full of them. In fact , at the local bike rides around here I see mostly Specialized, Canyons, Cervelo, and Cannondale. GT has a few nice bikes but GT and Mongoose probably sell much more to the beginner bike market, I see them at Dicks where in fact I bought my teenage son one a couples years ago.
@@Thomas-fy9yc- when Doral bought them, all our local independents walked. They mostly had Spec or Trek as their #1 anyway. We're not a big enough market for PON to have moved in yet, I guess.
Pon doesn't count !! a brand is a company and the biggest is Giant. A multi national or multi international that goes around buying multiple bike companies or brands lol doesn't count as being the biggest bike company it' sjust a big entreprise with lot's of money to buy others.
I thought it was Pacific bikes who specialized in putting notta bikes in department stores across America costing less than $350. Just found out Pon bought them. Surely they will continue diluting any brand name they can purchase with inferior bikes.
To everyone crying about reasonable profits price gauging inventory corporate takeovers etc, welcome to the world of business. Companies don’t exist to make reasonable profits, they exist to make as much as they can. Specialized is the most soulless company out there and I’m sure by now everyone has heard stories of the past of how that ass runs his company. The bike industry has mostly got where it’s at because of people being stupid enough to constantly buy into the latest and greatest and pay the inflated prices for it, to bad, it’s your own fault. I have 6 bikes, the newest is from 2014, rim brakes, mechanical shifting, I just laugh when I drop the $10k bikes on the group rides. Save yourself some $$$ buy a nice used bike and get in shape. Enjoy the ride and all the cash you saved from not buying into the latest marketing BS.
Pon Holdings aren't really bike manufacturers, they're just shareholders. All they do is own a percentage of the factory and tell them to lover the cost and increase the profit. If you look at the bicycles themselves, you can really tell. Both Cannondales and Cervelos are overpriced trash.
I don't understand how anyone could live 8 miles away from the primary necessity of survival (food). I'm guessing this is Mossie Rides Bikes for fun, not for rational and functional transportation.
I appreciate everyone who watches! Who should I look into next?
Priority bikes?
1:58 Surprising only to Americans and Brits. You get a lot of family owned companies in Europe. For example VW Group is the largest family owned company in the World and BMW is also family owned.
The legend that is F.T.W.
The history is astounding !
This ninja deserves credit
@@denisrogers4358 ooooo that's a good one that I need to cover. Thank you for the input!
Just watch a video from GC Performance, in the last section of the video talked about where bike manufacturers giving just about any dealership their brand to sell without having to buy inventory wondering if, wondering if your bike shop is seeing the same thing?
They are not manufactures, Giant is still the largest manufacturer
Pon is not a bicycle company. It is a holding corporation that owns several bicycle companies. Unless these individual manufacturers are all rebranded as Pon bikes it cannot be considered as so.
Ben Pon was also the inventor of the famous VW van😊
Yeah amazing he missed that, his role in the hippy-van is a big point in their history...
Ben Pon dad was the guy who brought the original VW Bus in existence!
If they could come in and handle the sales like a car dealership, it may be beneficial.
Instead of the shop having to buy a large inventory to stay in the network, just have distribution centers and allow the shops to carry minimal inventory, or better yet, just a demo fleet and then PON can ship from the distribution center in a matter of days once the bike is bought.
Shipped to the shop, not the customer.
Customer gets to test ride and shop is only out the cost of a demo bike.
This is great. This is essentially how I would like to operate. Unfortunately this doesn't work for all customers. Some customers need a bike THAT DAY. And I had one such customer where we ended up giving him one of our fleet of demo bikes until his bike arrived. Not optimal but we did our best to make him happy and meet his demands under the circumstances. Only so much you can do as a small local bike shop with barely any funding. But thats how I survived covid, was by not having my assets tied up.
@@diehardbikes If the above system that I described above was in place, you could have looked to see if another shop under the PON holding umbrella had his bike, and had it transferred over.
I’d say you could have a demo fleet, that you are responsible for buying, and then have some stock, but not as much as some of the big name companies require.
Unfortunately, unlike cars, bikes must be in MANY different sizes of each model for a test drive...leading to inventory approaching what many cycle shops carry today.
@@georgehugh3455 100%. I work at a shop, and what people expect from a shop is so varied. For a customer who doesn't know the difference between a bike and a bike shaped object, they often get hard to deal with due to unreal expectations. Sure, they can go to a big box store, bure a BSO for half the price and get it the day of. It's impossible for full service shop to carry inventory of multiple models in every size, potentially multiple specs, in just the color they want, so they can leave with the bike they need on the same day. I'm all for the demo fleet system, its close to what we try to do already, we cant afford to not sell a floor bike (which temporarily leaves us a gap in our size run for customers to try).
I'm loving these history vids!
I think that the gentleman uniquely thanking the young lady for a ciggie might be Swedish racer Jo Bonnier (killed at LeMans in 1972).
Amazing video mate. Please keep bringing these great insights 👍👍👍👌💪
I think that one of the reason the prices of the bike are so fu....high is because the concentration of the brands. Today we have 4 companies that now the market.
KNOLLY is an amazing bike company that really needs to be brought to light................Knolly Bikes Ltd is a Canadian company
Haven’t worked with Pon directly but have been at a Santa Cruz shop since 2008. No change happened really when pon took them over. Have been able to meet the grandkids of the pon empire and party with them a bunch. Great down to earth family it seems they just have a shit ton of money.
I just hope they bring Schwinn and Mongoose out of the box store hell they have been relegated to. Both brands deserve better.
So far PON seems to purchase brands and keep them on the same playing field they were on when purchased. I would love nothing more than GT/Schwinn to make quality bikes again
When the bean counters runs the company. You need to give up hope they’ll ever release a quality product. Even if it costs a few cents extra. Since it doesn’t fit the bottom line. To squeeze as much profit, by spending the least amount of money to produce a product.
@@MossieRidesBikes they don't want to destroy the company, which is a mistake too many big owners do.
@Ikreisrond hard to understand why in the EU now, VW would need some kind of middleman between them and VW dealers, it would only make the vehicles more expensive. He mentions import, but there is no import or customs clearance now between these 2 countries. Doesn't make sense.
Someone explain to me how Pon holdings operating in the US will create competition. Better product at lower prices? Do we really want a holdings group monopolizing the industry?
It seems like a lot of these bike shops are truly beholden to these big bike companies, Specialized, Giant or Trek. Other brands that offer similar offerings are squeezed out of the store. If stores can work with Pon and their many brands, there may be more selection. Bicycles made by the big brands seem rather high priced as well. Perhaps this Pon company will offer similar bikes at a lower price to gain market share.
This kind of vertical integration is one of the things the US Anti Trust laws are specifically supposed to stop. An example being the movie studios were stopped many years ago when they tried to buy cinemas. Ticketmaster buying venues should also have been stopped but wasn't because the people supposed to be looking out for the consumer by breaking monopolies or preventing them from occurring in the first place are kept underresourced and quite likely paid to stay asleep at the wheel by the massive lobbying money corporate interests feed into the government.
The last big move the Anti Trust laws were applied to was breaking up the Bell Telephone company in 1982, which created an explosion in telephone options and innovation as well as plummeting bills for consumers right through the '80s, and helped kick off affordable internet access with modems in the 90s. It's as bad as ever now though as the mobile phone companies have carved up the market between them either buying up or paying off their competition. Comparing the massive difference in price between US and EU mobile phone plans is a dead giveaway that the telecom monopoly is back in the US and it's ripping everyone off again - a calls, texts and unlimited data plan that costs €10 a month in the EU is more like $50+ a month in the US.
At least the EU look like they're taking some of the corporations to task with the new laws they're working on which define companies with more than a certain market share as 'gatekeepers' to the market they are in, enforcing obligations on them to open their platforms. A good example of a gatekeeper would be Google's internet search, which is still most people's go-to option, but has become increasingly useless as all the results on the first pages are paid for at this point, whether they're relevant or not, so google now control whether people will even find your business, as well as whether the feedback about it, good or bad is expressed honestly.
Another outcome of this is that it looks like Whatsapp and facebook messenger will be forced to allow users from other apps to send and receive messages to them, again because they're effectively gatekeeping the industry because you must install their app to chat conveniently with most of the people in the EU. Apple's chat is in the same situation in the US, but I doubt they'll do anything unless they're forced to by the US laws - they certainly made no effort to use the same charging plug as everyone else until the EU forced them.
Buying bike companies does not make you a bike company. Your just an investor.
Not an investor, the owner.
"not a native English speaker" ...-just a teacher;) @Ikreisrond
@Ikreisrond your a bit pedantic right?
@@the.communist Nope. Just speaking correctly. Don't be so offended 😆
Crazy thing is in the last 20 years or so that's how our economy has gone.Capital groups owning everything putting managers in place to run them.All about that bottom line
You might want to contact Propel out of New York, he sells e-bikes and has a insight how Pon functions
This is a business move to me. Buying brands and shutting them down eliminates competition. The only brands you sell are the brands the pro teams ride. This way your profit margins increase. Look for pon to try to get into retail. This way they can dominate local mkts and increase their market power.
Great Video. Im impressed C....... Editing was A plus too.
Cool, great video! For future bike brands suggestions, how about a look at the Canadian companies?
In 2022 they sold over 2.8 milions bikes, not bad 2.8 out of 143 000 000...iirc Giant does sell about 18 million bikes a year?!
Pretty sure the biggest manufacturers are actually Giant and Merida, as between them they produce for many other brands
I try to target the little manufacturer for my cycling stuff. I support custom bespoke builders not big well known brands that have investors and distribution chains that mark up price every step of it's way to me. Why should I support that model? I'm obviously not getting a good value or a product worth that much money. Years ago when Cannondale was made in America I used to only buy Cannondale bicycles but then they sold out to investment companies and that ended that loyalty, I haven't bought one since. Buying from a one guy fabricator I also get custom fitted and built to my body and spec. I don't think people realize how much more you get from going with a custom builder.
Bespoke niche is prohibitively expensive for the vast majority of buyers. Also, not everyone wants steel or carbon.
Not entirely a true statement; I've had 2 custom fitted and built bicycles, Bruce Gordon Rock & Road touring & a Bernie Mikkelsen road bike@@tubecated_development Not custom ( Pinarello Dogma$15,500 & Specialized Road S works $14'000)
PON also massive leader in the cargo bike industry (e.g. Urban Arrow)
Capital grows faster than labor (because it is a scam) eventually there will be one big bike company -owned by a oil company- and it will be illegal not to buy one.
You are right. Eliminating competition is one goal of Capitalism. Some claim that it's an efficient system. However, I think that stops when there are only a few big companies.
I was told that GIANT makes bikes for other brands, besides having their own brand on the market.
Trident thrust in Guangdong China makes giant bikes .
Giant primarily manufactures most of its bikes in Taiwan, but also has additional production facilities in China and the Netherlands. Just depends what product it is.
Yes they contract out their manufacturing capabilities. Not many companies want to make a carbon mold, engineer the layup, and buy the press and hundred other special tools to make a frame, nor hire all their own employees to do every step involved. Same goes for aluminum if you're hydro forming. The only materials that just two bros can enter the market with anymore is steel and ti because they are far more approachable in terms of cost and skill entry into the business, which is why you see about a hundred little hipster steel frame brands in the United States, though there are just a couple exceptions of boutique brands doing the other materials too.
PON Holdings...I work for a BIG BOX Sporting Goods retailer know as DIck's Sporting Goods. PON is who I get ALL my bicycles from...and repair parts and support to. Its kind of a one stop shop for all things bike.
I purchased my Santa Cruz Chameleon from Mikes Bikes here in Petaluma. I remember them sending an email stating they were bought out by a Dutch company. Specialized got pisssed because they were looking to purchase Mikes Bikes at the same time. Which made sense since they were a huge retaler for Specialized. Will we know who won the the bid and all Specialized Bikes were pulled for future allocation. Mikes discounted alot of the Specialized gear and bikes that were left on the shelves. So basically atleast here in the Petaluma Store. Santa Cruz, Giant, and Salsa are the big names they sell.
What is the most puzzling in all of it is that Schwinn,Mongoose, GT, Cervelo, Focus and Cannondale are all related. When you see the crap made by the first two it makes you wonder if they all those brands are on the same planet
Loving the content
@2:48 when she offers you a non-nicotine cigarette, but someones filming you.
Have to question how PON Holdings in rapidly and aggressively acquiring a 40% market share is 'helping competition'? Sounds like they are trying to build a monopoly. The bicycle business is going to go through a big shake up, because of greedy corporations who are designing bicycles and equipment by people who never ride them. The race led bicycle vein is about mined out. Prices at the retail point don't necessarily reflect the manufacturing cost plus a reasonable margin. Before Raleigh closed their factory in Nottingham, they had started sourcing bicycles from abroad. A bike was costing Raleigh £8 in a carton leaving the factory, but selling at £600. Yes, there are distribution costs, and a reasonable profit, but was the profit reasonable? The other issue is durability. Components are not durable, especially so, given the initial cost. It seems they are designed to fail, to ensure production lines keep running and to create a constant revenue stream. This is all backed up by marketing hype via the cycling media. You never read or hear a bad review, the latest thing is always the dogs whiskers, and the prices keep going up and up. 2024 will see a change in the market.
Curious which components or parts of bikes are built to fail at a quicker rate than previously? And proof source?
I feel like Campagnolo genuinely made stuff built to last as that is what I own. The wheels and my drivetrains are no newer than 2017, they are absolutely flawless!
How about experience as the source? Not from a magazine, video, but on the road miles. Same chain on a bike for 2 years covering around 15,000 miles per annum. Same bottom bracket as well. Find me a modern bike that can do that.
@@tommyfreckmann6857
I'm still riding a 1978 Jack Taylor with Maeda Suntour Cyclone derailleurs. Hubs are Mavic 501, which are good for 50,000 miles between bearing changes. I raced on Campag Nuovo Record and Super Record back in the late 1970s/early 1980s. I had hub axles break, hub flanges crack and I know of the titanium BB axles breaking along with pedal axles. Campag was good kit and a lot better quality back then, but it still broke in use. 2017 might be a long time for modern components to last, but will it still be usable over 40 years later?
@@tommyfreckmann6857
The quality of Raleigh frames skyrocketed when they moved production to Taiwan. I commuted on a Raleigh MTB back in the mid 90s and the frame would develop fatigue cracks and I'd get another one on warranty every 2 years max due to fatigue cracking at the welds, until they discontinued the model I was using and replaced the bike entirely with a Taiwanese welded frame.
The Taiwan made frame lasted me almost the next 20 years of daily commuting before fatigue (And running it singlespeed on a new work commute that included just short of 100 m of climb in less than 1 km) broke a chainstay. The Nottingham welded frames genuinely looked like they'd been thrown together by a farmer with an arc welder in a shed, right down the the weld spatter sealed under the paint, while the Taiwanese frame has minimalist, even TIG welds - and the failure on the Taiwanese one wasn't at a weld anyway.
Did you mean $80?
Cos you can't buy even the smallest kids bike from China for $8 FOB.
🤯 at your grocery store problem. I have a food basics, walmart, farm boy, super store, fresh co and sobeys all within a 4 km radious. If i go just 6 km there's also a farmers market.
I missed one. There's also no frills but the food is nasty there
Fun fact: In 1947 Ben Pon sr. asked Volkswagen to create the Transporter and he drew the first sketch. 13 million were sold 😎
This explains why bike pricing is so ridiculous: lack of competition.
In bike land it is all about the marketing. Sponsoring a pro team gives brands unbelievable pricing power. The thing that makes bikes unique is there are only a few opportunities to sponsor a team. This is the biggest reason bikes are so expensive.
There are other reasons too like limiting distribution partners and dominating local markets e.g.,walmart, home depot or even your local paint stores.
Well just for fun last November I ordered at my LBS a new Santa Cruz stigmata 4. ETA on this paid for order from November is may 2024. A simple rival build nothing fancy in size large. “Mikes bikes” last Friday listed a minimum of 3 in stock ready to ship in every size in every build. Nice for a company to worry more about their factory store than the sold orders at the LBS they claim to support. I have contacted them about this and have received no reply at all.
I was half wrong because I said Dorel Sports, who I forgot were purchased by Pon in 2021. Great vid!
WHT was going on at the end? Was that bike stuck head-first in the ocean for a year?
That was someone who never changed their bar tape and their sweat corroded through the bars 😅
Disgusting! @@MossieRidesBikes
Durianrider did a video on that recently
2:05 - *_No comment about...THE LION?!?_* 🦁
Bike brands no longer manufacturing frames at their own factories makes them less of a bike brand.
When you give up control of manufacturing. The quality of the bike suffers. The ODM and OEM factories don’t care if the products they put out are of inferior quality. Since it’s not their reputation of their brand that’s on the line.
Isn't that also about the exact same time that bicycle prices started raising to the absolute ridiculous prices they're at now. It's amazing I can buy carbon fiber for a third if not a quarter of what it cost 15 years ago as well as the resins and materials that you need for it. Yet the bikes even with inflation accounted for are still up at least 50 to 100% minimums. Would that happen to be because of one company buying up a bunch of companies and then inflating the price... We've seen this happen to many many different markets throughout history and especially in recent times
They own the brand but Who manufactures Pons bicycles?
Another great video thanks very much
Buying up an operation like Santa Cruz bikes (good quality bikes) doesn't seem to bode well for the buyer who wants something nice.
Does Pon actually make bikes? Or they own brands, which also do not actually make their own bikes, but order them from someone like Giant?
One thing you pronounced the name Pon as it should be. Simply Pon.
Rolex did the same thing !
PON is a great company, great move.
Giant now makes all of Treks bikes, might as well buy a Giant.
Pon is a holding company, not a bicycle company.
Great video!
Pon has higher revenue, because of its vertical integration, giant make more bikes.
Mongoose and Schwinn are owned by Pacific bicycle company. Then Kent owns other brands too.
and Pacific Cycles was owned by Dorel who was bought by PON
How is that not a Monopoly?
Yah Yah, big bucks = bigger bucks, biggest nightmare is when behemoth companies sell off and dissolve to keep the grabs going.
Competition, HAH, when the biggest gets the majority, innovation is put out to pasture.
I was looking at the same wikipedia page of Pon Holdings afew weeks ago.
Really interesting.
Hmm. Focus once had some interesting and somehow unique bikes. Not anymore. Cannondale once was very original and innovative. Not anymore. I do not think that they will allow them to be innovative again. Sadly, overall only a uniform sauce of average bikes in the Pon portfolio. Cervelo perhaps somehow stands out, but how long?
Cause of a stem splitting in two? It doesn't get more creative, all bikes are now the same
Cervelo was unique with their tt bikes 10 years ago
Seems like a sizeable piece of the pie goes to cervelo and santa cruz, the flagship brands in their portfolio. SC only benefitted from the acquisation, more models, lower linkage vpp on all trail/enduro bikes, better colours (in my opinion), while maintaining the build quality and serviceability.
Focus/pon should at least have kept the mares in the lineup, great handling bike that was very popular when jeremy powers was riding it. No idea why they pulled it, it was perfect already so no real development costs necessary except for a new colourway every year..
@@Bonky-wonky Similar thoughts here. After Mike Kluge stepped out, Focus became unfocused and the Mares was abandoned. Glad to still use one. Same thing with the old Raven. I am not so sure about SC, my usual shop has them, but there is nothing specially appealing, at least for me. Cervelo has nothing interesting in the MTB range. And Cannondale ruined the lefty with abandoning the needle bearings. Bad times for bike shopping.
You forgot to mention Reserve wheels which was spun off from Santa Cruz Bikes. I ended up buying 3 Reserve wheelsets in the last two months because of the incredible lifetime warranty, similar to the Santa Cruz bike lifetime warranty. You should work on an episode on how warranties have changed in the industry. Last year, Race Face and Ibis Cycles both added lifetime warranties as well, including wheelsets, probably because of Reserve wheels.
Last month was the first time I shopped at Mike's Bikes, which is where I bought my Reserve wheelsets, a Juliana Wilder CC (Santa Cruz Blur), and a Santa Cruz Highball CC. My experience was extremely positive. Pon's plan is working it seems, at least for this shopper.
The weird thing about PON is that they're a black hole- any 'name' that gets sucked inside seems to disappear. I haven't seen a new C-dale, GT, or Mongoose in years....
What? Cannodale just launched a whole new line of Supersixs last year, as well as the Synapse and Topstone. I see them daily on rides and Miles bikes are full of them. In fact , at the local bike rides around here I see mostly Specialized, Canyons, Cervelo, and Cannondale.
GT has a few nice bikes but GT and Mongoose probably sell much more to the beginner bike market, I see them at Dicks where in fact I bought my teenage son one a couples years ago.
@@Thomas-fy9yc- when Doral bought them, all our local independents walked. They mostly had Spec or Trek as their #1 anyway. We're not a big enough market for PON to have moved in yet, I guess.
Mongoose is still a big player in BMX.
Bicycle industry has been "PWN-ed".
I get it. It's a real head banger!
I only ride park
Biggest scam is mtb prices 👎
Pon doesn't count !! a brand is a company and the biggest is Giant. A multi national or multi international that goes around buying multiple bike companies or brands lol doesn't count as being the biggest bike company it' sjust a big entreprise with lot's of money to buy others.
Ahh thats why Santa Cruz bikes took a shit since 2012
I thought it was Pacific bikes who specialized in putting notta bikes in department stores across America costing less than $350. Just found out Pon bought them. Surely they will continue diluting any brand name they can purchase with inferior bikes.
To everyone crying about reasonable profits price gauging inventory corporate takeovers etc, welcome to the world of business. Companies don’t exist to make reasonable profits, they exist to make as much as they can. Specialized is the most soulless company out there and I’m sure by now everyone has heard stories of the past of how that ass runs his company. The bike industry has mostly got where it’s at because of people being stupid enough to constantly buy into the latest and greatest and pay the inflated prices for it, to bad, it’s your own fault. I have 6 bikes, the newest is from 2014, rim brakes, mechanical shifting, I just laugh when I drop the $10k bikes on the group rides. Save yourself some $$$ buy a nice used bike and get in shape. Enjoy the ride and all the cash you saved from not buying into the latest marketing BS.
Pon Holdings aren't really bike manufacturers, they're just shareholders. All they do is own a percentage of the factory and tell them to lover the cost and increase the profit. If you look at the bicycles themselves, you can really tell. Both Cannondales and Cervelos are overpriced trash.
I don't understand how anyone could live 8 miles away from the primary necessity of survival (food). I'm guessing this is Mossie Rides Bikes for fun, not for rational and functional transportation.
👎🏻
Oh no. This is the first time ive ever been wrong.
Said for the hundredth time
The fact that you call Trek an American company reveals your ignorance right off the bat.
Excellent video