The idea that an lgbtq+ person would be safer if they were under the occupation of a foreign state is absolutely ridiculous. Even if my state is more homophobic, at least it affords me rights as a citizen. I can travel, I can vote, I can run in elections, I can protest, I can emigrate etc. People under an occupation or under an embargo don't have those rights. If you're targeted for your ethnicity, it doesn't matter how "woke" the occupying force is. You will always be more vulnerable in that situation.
Bruh... 1) Israel allows all of it's citizens to vote equally, whether they're Jewish, Muslim, Druze etc. There are even 3 or 4 parties in Israel which specifically represent Arab minority. - Why do people in Gaza and parts of the West Bank don't vote? It's because they do not consider themselves citizens of Israel, but of Palestine. 2) Palestinian authority is not a democratic state (according to international research and Palestinians themselves), and there's not much info about Gaza strip, controlled only by various radical Islamists, who have repressed their political opposition (mainly FATAH)
@karstenschuhmann8334 I think that the best solution is for West Bank to have wide autonomy (something like confederation) inside of Israel, in which all kinds of extremism (both Jewish and non-Jewish) are prohibited
@germankolesnikov856 Well, at first all settlements need to be removed or agree to pay rent at the rightfull owners, and the IDF needs to leave the West Bank. Policing needs to be done by mixed groups, one policemen employed by Israel and one by the Palestinian representation.
20:22 Bassam Yosef have talked about this and and he said that Gaza's Original population is around 700k . why is it 2.3M you might ask ? its not because they are having babies like Crazy but Most Palestinians In Gaza are not from Gaza they are Displaced Palestinians from the occupied territories By Israeli Army and Settlers
Honestly thank you so much for making this video, I have barely seen anyone on TH-cam bringing awareness to the Genocide and it gives me hope someone cares.
This great video shows how well-researched videos should be on this topic, thank you for creating such a high-standard video. Some of the arguments you presented really spoke to me, yet some didn't and I would like to give my feedback now. Quick interlude: Hiya, I just discovered your videos thanks to Celeste video, which had amazing arguments and was a video essay I found to resonate with. My views matched perfectly with that video as a Transgender Lesbian who is a feminist and a socialist and an atheist with a strong love of democracy living in a conservative christian European country. As for the first five arguments, I agree with everything you presented, very nicely done, and enhanced my understanding of the Jewish religion and on the history of Arabs and Jews since I am more knowledgeable about European and North American history I use in my activism. The only qualm I have about anything you used in this part is probably overreliance on religious texts (which you made a joke about, so I am assuming you probably realised it too.) Religion is a tool of propaganda, texts compiled by many different people with separate goals. No matter how loving religious text may be or how hateful the same religious text may be on the next page. They can always be used by anyone to support their beliefs and love or hate due to the nature of these texts. That's why I despise reliance on religious texts, and ideas everywhere around the world, whether it be modern Western law and science, Western or Middle Eastern religious governments, and Far Eastern work ethic or household rules. Like Karl Marx said religiosity is an opiate for the masses. (Here I want to add that this doesn't mean religion should be eradicated or something of that sort, only that religion should be a personal choice and not have an influence on how society is run.) Now to chapters 6 and 10 argument about war. This is the part where I had the most inner conflict because I strongly believe your point is as close to a correct one as it can be and I couldn't probably argue it better if I was in your position. ALL (This is very important) Civilians should not be punished by choices of their leaders, elected or dictators. There's a lot of nuance to this one sentence, your example with leader X was a decent one but it has its flaws. You mentioned that X can be Hamas terrorist attacks or Barrack Obama's administration drone warfare. Also It can be Iran's oppressive religious government's attacks around the world or Adolf Hitler and the Nazi party during WW2 or Putin's Regime attacking Ukraine. Here is a preface, Allied unrestricted strategic bombing campings of Germany and Japan were a warcrime and punished a lot more people than they should have. Same with the unrestricted submarine warfare of Germany on Allied ships in both world wars. Now with that said, I believe certain part of the population should be punished for choosing to SUPPORT their leader, military or in a civilian way (for example industrial), some with court sentences, some with economic punishment BUT NEVER WITH BOMBING civilian population as a whole, because that results in death of everyone. Innocent children, women, and the opposition members to the government. The biggest flaws of this can be seen in the aftermath of World War Two with how many war criminals and supporters of both the Japanese military government and the Nazi party were left unpunished and how many innocent civilians from these countries died. This was sadly never done right in the history of humankind. And we should advocate for better ways to be found. Chapter 7 was really great, totally agree nothing to comment on there. Now chapter 8, ah yes the blame of who started it all, a tale as old as time. Honestly, I wish people wouldn't use it so often, your usage was mostly correct and I don't want to argue about it too much. Hence here is my quick personal opinion. If I had to find blame for the Palestine conflict between the Jewish and Arabic populations. I would blame every one of 70 years ago. I would blame the grandparents of Europeans for the rise in anti-semitic behaviour in both Western and Eastern Blocks and their politicians who promised Jewish people a state for only their own like they had a free unpopulated land lying somewhere around. I would blame every Jewish family of 70 years ago who decided to believe in that nonsense and went to the newly created Isreal and settled there. And I would blame Arabic governments and parts of the population at the time who in response demanded the eradication of Jewish people and declared the war on newly created Isreal. This is probably idealistic but I believe that diplomatic dialogue could have saved that situation. NOW WHO I DON'T BLAME IS MODERN POPULATION OF BOTH COUNTRIES (Palestinians and Jewish civilians). Today to blame is only the Netanyahu government and his supporters who elected him, (plus Israeli illegal settlers), and the terrorist parts of the Hamas government who instead of following goals in their manifesto decided that violence on innocents was a correct choice (October 7th attack). This leads to another quick opinion is unrestricted warfare a correct choice of reitaliation for a terrorist attack? NO obviously NO, we live in the 2020s we all should understand just as the scientific field came to understand that the 2000s Bush's War on Terror was an overblown response, and the same is happening between Israel and Palestine now. Lastly probably my most controversial argument. (Scary title XD) In response to the chapter 12 about LGBTQ situation in Middle East. I decide to criticise both sides, I find both governments as flawed. Now let's explain my thinking. As you mention in both countries situation of LGBTQ people and I would also add situation of women in general are abysmal. Does this mean I will not take side and just stand an watch as Palestine civilians are bombed to death by Isreali, NO I will always call it out. I personally will always advocate for free democratic equal state where both nationalities could live in peace. Why is that, I belive that I cannot support countries run by oppressive governments or parties who claim their oppression is right because of their religion, history or culture. I will happily support opposition in those countries. And it's not connected to any specific culture or religion. I will fight and be an activist against oppressive christianity the same way I will oppose governments of oppressive Islam or oppressive judaism and every other religion or culture used in that way. This I believe is correct form of my compassion. And it's a hard thing to execute correctly because pointing out flaws in religions or cultures has a very tight line before racism and xenophobia come into play. I will cite my favourite quote from a steamy fantasy romance novel about transbian protagonist called "Ryn of Avonside" Chapter 88 "Compassion" A quote is from American soldier who is a transgender men and quit military due to rightwing presidency of Donald Trump. Quote: “First, we need an objective, a purpose,” Troy replied, giving my girlfriend a nod. “I’d like to put forward a bunch. First, a more abstract one, but it’s in our name. Compassion. We want to go out into the world and help people with their problems. I don’t just mean the kind that you can swing a sword at either. Next, equality. Specifically, equality among thinking beings, regardless of any number of circumstances they find themselves in. Things like sexuality, race, gender and species.” (Fantasy world hence species, tho I would like that species be in real world too. Animals need to have their rights.) [...] “What about religion, culture and all that?” Kelsey asked carefully, gaze focused on Troy with vivid intensity. “Religion and culture is… more difficult. Not every religion is equal, and the same for culture. I’ve run into too many cultures that glorify violence and too many religions that codify the abuse of others,” our leader sighed, eyes haunted. “We will fight those while protecting the ones we like, to put it frankly.” End Quote. I believe every culture is extremely valuable same with religions, but all of them have parts, that should be criticised, abolished and removed from how we run modern society. Everyone has a right to celebrate and participate in their culture and religion, but there's a hard border when it hurts others and I will always say no to such behaviour. AND I FINISHED. Sorry I wrote you a whole essay worth of a comment back to the response to your video. If you decide to read it, I want to say thank you for creating such great videos so my brain can go into an overdrive and do a lot of thinking. I will be sticking around your channel now. Trying to share the love and support for your creations, Kite! (I am sorry if the name is wrong if you choosen a different name you mentioned in Celeste video please correct me I will edit my comment) Once again sorry for whole essay worth of a comment. With love and regards, Felicia
omg thank you SM for taking the time out of your day to write all that, i very much appreciate it. I'm glad that I'm cultivating a group of people who are engaging with the content I make and the issues I bring up. I agree generally with all the points you've brought up though I do have some things I'd like to add. while yes any form of attack on a civilian population is awful, historically violence is pretty much the only tool oppressed people have in their arsenal to fight back against colonialism, imperialism and capital, I would recommend looking into Franz Fanon's work in anti-colonialism. it's very easy to criticise violence from the sidelines. Still, when you're actually in the situation, trying to secure your livelihood I believe many would have a different view on it. I agree that there should be some level of 'punishment' for civilians supporting brutal reigimes, however, there is often a mass propaganda campaign accompanying these regimes, sometimes this is the only information citizens receive and so ''punishment'' for this is a bit of a grey area, i think rehabilitation or education is a much more effective means of deradicalising people I understand your point about religion and obviously, as a marxist, i see the harm in state-sanctioned religion, however many areas of the world like the middle east turn to religion due to the ungodly effects of western imperialism, not to justify to awful HR records many religious countries have I'm not sure how much I agree with the quote you sourced though, i personally don't believe that any cultures or religions are superior to others, though I do believe, as you said that all should be criticised in some way or another again, thank you for enjoying my content !!!
@@unajoy wow thanks for responding so soon, this point on how colonialism has affected indigenous cultures is excellent, I touched a little upon it, thanks for bringing it to my attention to think about it more. About 'punishment' of the population as I wrote it should be non lethal, and obviously it should be followed with help to remove the mindset imprinted by the propaganda with education and compassion later on (marshall plan for example). Lastly a quick correction about the quote because it seems You misunderstood it a little when it says "not every culture is equal" the quote doesn't mean to say some cultures are better than others. It means to say some cultures and religions don't value equality (are not equal to each human being). Like punishment of death for homosexuality in law based on Islamic religion.
@@unajoy thanks for the heart. Looking forward to your next upload in the future. You slay Girl with these video essays, so meticulously researched and presented!
Hearing you bust out the LITERAL bible and read from it directly was so cathartic to hear, and i will be quoting it directly when i get into my next argument with a zionist about it
4:37 I would argue that religions are not loving, they can be violent. The issue is there is no right way to interpret a religions contextual clues and thus a violent interpretation if vague enough can be either interpreted as metaphor or a call to action. But there is no right way considering Abrahamic religions are especially vague.
this is off topic from the focus of this video, but i so love the firewatch background music!! it really helps add the calmness in a very not-so-calm discussion like this, it really adds a lovely touch of joy. thank you for your humanity, i can tell that this is a really good thing and a much needed video, i dont know if you need to hear this but keep going! you got this!! ❣❣
Thanks for this video, I had an argument with my mom recently and she said that because the hamas killed Israelis in Gaza, and built trenches, that Israel can kill them, and that if they don't, that the hamas will kill Israel, she also said that almost all Muslims are "fanatics" and when I brought up how much Israel is supported by big and rich countries, she said that the fanatism will be enough. After that she said that If I died and we lived there she would become a "wolf" and kill as many people as needed. And I told her wtf, don't do that, that's kinda evil. Anyways, sorry for the rant it really upset and it's nice to see someone with sources talk about this argument) I am still in the process of checking them but they all looke pretty credible, good job
The fact that people say that if you oppose Israel you are an absolute radical that can’t see logic is quite funny in my opinion, i got a jewish stepfather and we discuss this a lot, i personally do not agree with Israel and its policies, i have absolutely no problem with any jews or any other group, but I sincerely cannot support the government and its acts of violence against the people that lived there.
As a Pagan Shamanic Satanist who was raised Presbytarian I find myself very often holding conversation with followers of the Abrahamic faiths, discussing the tenets of their belief and the happenings of the texts of their religions. I am utterly fascinated by them, and love those who do not act unjustly. I find myself in literal awe reading the Old Testament, and believe our modern texts are quite beautiful in segments, and contain very many fundamental truths. I am not exactly a Diest, but can see the merit in Deism. My own spiritual belief is often mired in the popular perception of pagan mysticism; but to me the metaphysical is just another lense with which to view the abstract 'other' outside of the self. When I saw the title of the video I was cautiously giddy, having browsed the channel's videos after seeing the thumbnail and title of a video from the channel regarding a trans narrative or perspective contained within Celeste. (I am a nonbinary trangender individual) I then sat my tanky ass down to watch the USSR Iceberg and got a good vibe out of it, and so was heartened by the prospect of a thoughtful perspective into the ongoing Isreal-Palestine conflict. I have held discussion with a few Palestinians and Isreali Jewish folk in trying to understand the region and the struggles and why on this green earth I keep hearing about the government of Isreal doing unspeakable things. I do find it ironic that in 2023 this subject's discourse is being held more widely as I have been a hashtag FREEPALESTINE-er ever since I grew into a burgeoning understanding of our world as a young adult well over a decade ago. I am apalled at the actions nation's governments have taken (or not taken) in complicity to the crisis which besets the region; However, I am not surprised that 'post'-colonial powers gunna 'post'-colonialism. The part of the video that I am endeared to the most here is in separating a government from the governed. I am highly critical of a lot of governments, but always stipulate that my ire and ill-feelings do not apply to a monolith, but apply to the unjust systems which go on in self-perpetuity. (states yo, who needs em? 😂) All this is to say thank you for providing a mature contribution to conversation at hand. You are appreciated, you are valid, and you are probably going to be subscribed too. [p.s. I really enjoy the readings from the texts you have provided, I swear I end up being a better preacher to christians than most chirstians I know because I have read much of the Bible and in fact love the book, I mean its got so many kewl stories, dog]
I am pro Israeli but i have to represent palestine in the MUN and needless to say,watching this is going to be painful but hopefully i learn something new
Neve knew you could pack so much ignorance into one short video. Just an example, Gaza is NOT an open air prison. Gaza shares a border with Egypt and, for some unknown reason, Egypt won't let Gazans out. Go figure....
as an lgbtq person living in isreal (ignore pfp and name pls it a weird story) i dont support any of the sides, and im not trying to say anything aginst anyone here.but the goverment in isreal is terrible and it represents a very specific part of the people here, although their a majority of the society sadly, but there is a part in the people here who is actually reasonable and support both sides (in the means of being about helping palastianian people and being against the terror organization that controls there) and ant to share the land in a good way, im sorry for any grammer mistakes and for everything i sayed wrong and in general, hopes this ends soon (srry)
It is an act of memoricide on your part to say that it is dumb on the part of the other actually SEMITIC PEOPLE, including those indigenous to the territories COLONIZED by Israel, to reclaim and commit to THEIR SEMITIC identity. YES. I as an Arab am a Semite and YOU WILL NOT tell me I am not the same way the Zionists claim that Palestine didn’t exist. Use anti-Jew, judeophobia, to refer to what’s memoricidally referred to as antisemitism.
I don’t care enough to listen to this video but yes, Israelis are indigenous: 1: self identification: Yes, self explanatory 2: historical continuity, yes, Israeli or even ashkenazi Jews still carry levant traditions and celebrate things like Passover the return to Israel and speak Hebrew a language from the levant, which has been read in Torah scroll since even before the Roman exile 3: strong links to territories, I mean if a border dispute or any border defines indigenous that’s just dumb, native Americans don’t have political borders. For Jews the non political border is Canaan. 4: I mean democracy is cool. Most of the world even Palestinians- wait never mind but most of the world uses democracy even people indigenous to where they’re from. 5: Yes, they do have their own language considered a Semitic language, know from the levant semetic. 6: form non dominant groups in society, does not specify within their own state, could be worldwide. If talking about world wide it would be yes they don’t form a dominant group making up only 14 million out of 8 billion people. 7: yes?? Israel is focused on maintaining their ancient structures and traditions unique to Jews. 8: Genetic claim. Ashkenazis and mizrahis claim up to 90% Levantine dna, around 40-70 for Ashkenazi and European Sephardis. There are much better arguments than lies to support Palestine you know?
From what I can see, you don't really know what being indigenous is. "Indigenous" is used for people for whom, suffered oppression under colonialism, usually settler colonialism. There is an ethnic identity in Indian Subcontinent called 'Bengali.' Under British and Portugese colonial occupation, the Bengali WERE indigenous. After the British left in 1947, the Bengali stopped being indigenous and the word was no longer used. Also, "genetic claim" doesn't matter. From the 11th century onward, Arabs, Kurds, Persians, Turks, Uighurs migrated to Bengal with the support of the Mughals. Despite having no genetic claim or connection to the land, called themselves 'Bengali' and lived under British occupation. As such, they were also indigenous. Indigenous is used in a COLONIAL relation and as such, your entire argument doesn't even make sense.
Words change to adapt, and so do territorial claims. Murder has a different meaning in war. If a criminal breaks into a police station holding a hostage and starts shooting the cops, and the cops shoot back ultimately killing the hostage, it was the criminal with blood on their hands. Hamas is the criminal, and the Gazan civilians are the hostages. Capturing territory in war is not theft. Sure, lying is common is politics. Agreed. Counterattack and genocide are different words entirely. Palestinians share genetic heritage all over the Arabic word, as do many Israeli Jews. The Torah, which has been unchanged for thousands of years talks about Jews strong links to Israel countless times. What are you even talking about.. no link... come on. Distinct means something is different or separate from something else of the same type. There are no other countries who have the same set of laws as Israel. There are growing movements to restore the temple mount and build the third temple. People are absolutely trying to restore historical sites and return them to use. Because the Torah says they can is not a good reason. Agreed. Nowhere else to go is not a reason to take over a land. Agreed. Arabs have the rest. Doesn't matter. Agreed. Israel had been conquered and controlled by a dozen empires and mindsets. Taking it over as Palestinian is just as crazy as doing so as a Christian or Israeli or any other group. Genocide is intent. The blood is on the hands of Hamas. Why should Palestine negotiate? Because they lost a war. That's what happened in every other territory war in human history. Hamas started the war. The conflict was started by the British/French. Boiling points came countless times. Including when the Muslims attacked and took it over hundreds of years before. Nobody deserves to be attacked for something that happened before their birth. Agreed. Hamas isn't ISIS. Agreed. Duh. Almost all of the Muslim world is anti-LGBT among other inhumane practices such as FGM and honor killings, but that isn't relevant here. Agreed.
well, isn't circumcision genital mutulation aswell? Israel has a history of constant overreaction to beeing attacked... and at that point self-defence becomes retalliation and creates an escalation spiral. Self defence on the attack would have been manning the borders before it happend. there is a big left-wing festival and a right wing gouvernment fails to protect exactly that part of the border at that time? just after right wing changes to undermine the juristiction in Israel failed and were blocked by left and central people protesting against said changes? all just coincidence i am shure.
The idea that an lgbtq+ person would be safer if they were under the occupation of a foreign state is absolutely ridiculous. Even if my state is more homophobic, at least it affords me rights as a citizen. I can travel, I can vote, I can run in elections, I can protest, I can emigrate etc.
People under an occupation or under an embargo don't have those rights. If you're targeted for your ethnicity, it doesn't matter how "woke" the occupying force is. You will always be more vulnerable in that situation.
Thank you for having common sense ❤
Bruh...
1) Israel allows all of it's citizens to vote equally, whether they're Jewish, Muslim, Druze etc.
There are even 3 or 4 parties in Israel which specifically represent Arab minority.
- Why do people in Gaza and parts of the West Bank don't vote? It's because they do not consider themselves citizens of Israel, but of Palestine.
2) Palestinian authority is not a democratic state (according to international research and Palestinians themselves), and there's not much info about Gaza strip, controlled only by various radical Islamists, who have repressed their political opposition (mainly FATAH)
@germankolesnikov856 Do you thing the West Bank is a part of Israel, or do you think it is occupied teritory?
@karstenschuhmann8334 I think that the best solution is for West Bank to have wide autonomy (something like confederation) inside of Israel, in which all kinds of extremism (both Jewish and non-Jewish) are prohibited
@germankolesnikov856 Well, at first all settlements need to be removed or agree to pay rent at the rightfull owners, and the IDF needs to leave the West Bank.
Policing needs to be done by mixed groups, one policemen employed by Israel and one by the Palestinian representation.
I've mostly been lost in this recent conflict and its discussions, and haven't done any much needed research. So thank you very much for this video!
glad i could help!!
Thanks for educating
20:22 Bassam Yosef have talked about this and and he said that
Gaza's Original population is around 700k . why is it 2.3M you might ask ? its not because they are having babies like Crazy but Most Palestinians In Gaza are not from Gaza they are Displaced Palestinians from the occupied territories By Israeli Army and Settlers
Honestly thank you so much for making this video, I have barely seen anyone on TH-cam bringing awareness to the Genocide and it gives me hope someone cares.
This great video shows how well-researched videos should be on this topic, thank you for creating such a high-standard video. Some of the arguments you presented really spoke to me, yet some didn't and I would like to give my feedback now.
Quick interlude: Hiya, I just discovered your videos thanks to Celeste video, which had amazing arguments and was a video essay I found to resonate with. My views matched perfectly with that video as a Transgender Lesbian who is a feminist and a socialist and an atheist with a strong love of democracy living in a conservative christian European country.
As for the first five arguments, I agree with everything you presented, very nicely done, and enhanced my understanding of the Jewish religion and on the history of Arabs and Jews since I am more knowledgeable about European and North American history I use in my activism. The only qualm I have about anything you used in this part is probably overreliance on religious texts (which you made a joke about, so I am assuming you probably realised it too.)
Religion is a tool of propaganda, texts compiled by many different people with separate goals. No matter how loving religious text may be or how hateful the same religious text may be on the next page. They can always be used by anyone to support their beliefs and love or hate due to the nature of these texts. That's why I despise reliance on religious texts, and ideas everywhere around the world, whether it be modern Western law and science, Western or Middle Eastern religious governments, and Far Eastern work ethic or household rules. Like Karl Marx said religiosity is an opiate for the masses. (Here I want to add that this doesn't mean religion should be eradicated or something of that sort, only that religion should be a personal choice and not have an influence on how society is run.)
Now to chapters 6 and 10 argument about war. This is the part where I had the most inner conflict because I strongly believe your point is as close to a correct one as it can be and I couldn't probably argue it better if I was in your position.
ALL (This is very important) Civilians should not be punished by choices of their leaders, elected or dictators. There's a lot of nuance to this one sentence, your example with leader X was a decent one but it has its flaws. You mentioned that X can be Hamas terrorist attacks or Barrack Obama's administration drone warfare. Also It can be Iran's oppressive religious government's attacks around the world or Adolf Hitler and the Nazi party during WW2 or Putin's Regime attacking Ukraine. Here is a preface, Allied unrestricted strategic bombing campings of Germany and Japan were a warcrime and punished a lot more people than they should have. Same with the unrestricted submarine warfare of Germany on Allied ships in both world wars. Now with that said, I believe certain part of the population should be punished for choosing to SUPPORT their leader, military or in a civilian way (for example industrial), some with court sentences, some with economic punishment BUT NEVER WITH BOMBING civilian population as a whole, because that results in death of everyone. Innocent children, women, and the opposition members to the government. The biggest flaws of this can be seen in the aftermath of World War Two with how many war criminals and supporters of both the Japanese military government and the Nazi party were left unpunished and how many innocent civilians from these countries died. This was sadly never done right in the history of humankind. And we should advocate for better ways to be found.
Chapter 7 was really great, totally agree nothing to comment on there.
Now chapter 8, ah yes the blame of who started it all, a tale as old as time. Honestly, I wish people wouldn't use it so often, your usage was mostly correct and I don't want to argue about it too much. Hence here is my quick personal opinion. If I had to find blame for the Palestine conflict between the Jewish and Arabic populations. I would blame every one of 70 years ago. I would blame the grandparents of Europeans for the rise in anti-semitic behaviour in both Western and Eastern Blocks and their politicians who promised Jewish people a state for only their own like they had a free unpopulated land lying somewhere around. I would blame every Jewish family of 70 years ago who decided to believe in that nonsense and went to the newly created Isreal and settled there. And I would blame Arabic governments and parts of the population at the time who in response demanded the eradication of Jewish people and declared the war on newly created Isreal. This is probably idealistic but I believe that diplomatic dialogue could have saved that situation. NOW WHO I DON'T BLAME IS MODERN POPULATION OF BOTH COUNTRIES (Palestinians and Jewish civilians). Today to blame is only the Netanyahu government and his supporters who elected him, (plus Israeli illegal settlers), and the terrorist parts of the Hamas government who instead of following goals in their manifesto decided that violence on innocents was a correct choice (October 7th attack).
This leads to another quick opinion is unrestricted warfare a correct choice of reitaliation for a terrorist attack? NO obviously NO, we live in the 2020s we all should understand just as the scientific field came to understand that the 2000s Bush's War on Terror was an overblown response, and the same is happening between Israel and Palestine now.
Lastly probably my most controversial argument. (Scary title XD) In response to the chapter 12 about LGBTQ situation in Middle East.
I decide to criticise both sides, I find both governments as flawed. Now let's explain my thinking. As you mention in both countries situation of LGBTQ people and I would also add situation of women in general are abysmal. Does this mean I will not take side and just stand an watch as Palestine civilians are bombed to death by Isreali, NO I will always call it out. I personally will always advocate for free democratic equal state where both nationalities could live in peace.
Why is that, I belive that I cannot support countries run by oppressive governments or parties who claim their oppression is right because of their religion, history or culture. I will happily support opposition in those countries. And it's not connected to any specific culture or religion. I will fight and be an activist against oppressive christianity the same way I will oppose governments of oppressive Islam or oppressive judaism and every other religion or culture used in that way. This I believe is correct form of my compassion. And it's a hard thing to execute correctly because pointing out flaws in religions or cultures has a very tight line before racism and xenophobia come into play.
I will cite my favourite quote from a steamy fantasy romance novel about transbian protagonist called "Ryn of Avonside" Chapter 88 "Compassion" A quote is from American soldier who is a transgender men and quit military due to rightwing presidency of Donald Trump.
Quote:
“First, we need an objective, a purpose,” Troy replied, giving my girlfriend a nod. “I’d like to put forward a bunch. First, a more abstract one, but it’s in our name. Compassion. We want to go out into the world and help people with their problems. I don’t just mean the kind that you can swing a sword at either. Next, equality. Specifically, equality among thinking beings, regardless of any number of circumstances they find themselves in. Things like sexuality, race, gender and species.”
(Fantasy world hence species, tho I would like that species be in real world too. Animals need to have their rights.)
[...]
“What about religion, culture and all that?” Kelsey asked carefully, gaze focused on Troy with vivid intensity.
“Religion and culture is… more difficult. Not every religion is equal, and the same for culture. I’ve run into too many cultures that glorify violence and too many religions that codify the abuse of others,” our leader sighed, eyes haunted. “We will fight those while protecting the ones we like, to put it frankly.”
End Quote.
I believe every culture is extremely valuable same with religions, but all of them have parts, that should be criticised, abolished and removed from how we run modern society. Everyone has a right to celebrate and participate in their culture and religion, but there's a hard border when it hurts others and I will always say no to such behaviour.
AND I FINISHED. Sorry I wrote you a whole essay worth of a comment back to the response to your video. If you decide to read it, I want to say thank you for creating such great videos so my brain can go into an overdrive and do a lot of thinking. I will be sticking around your channel now. Trying to share the love and support for your creations, Kite! (I am sorry if the name is wrong if you choosen a different name you mentioned in Celeste video please correct me I will edit my comment)
Once again sorry for whole essay worth of a comment.
With love and regards,
Felicia
omg thank you SM for taking the time out of your day to write all that, i very much appreciate it. I'm glad that I'm cultivating a group of people who are engaging with the content I make and the issues I bring up. I agree generally with all the points you've brought up though I do have some things I'd like to add.
while yes any form of attack on a civilian population is awful, historically violence is pretty much the only tool oppressed people have in their arsenal to fight back against colonialism, imperialism and capital, I would recommend looking into Franz Fanon's work in anti-colonialism. it's very easy to criticise violence from the sidelines. Still, when you're actually in the situation, trying to secure your livelihood I believe many would have a different view on it.
I agree that there should be some level of 'punishment' for civilians supporting brutal reigimes, however, there is often a mass propaganda campaign accompanying these regimes, sometimes this is the only information citizens receive and so ''punishment'' for this is a bit of a grey area, i think rehabilitation or education is a much more effective means of deradicalising people
I understand your point about religion and obviously, as a marxist, i see the harm in state-sanctioned religion, however many areas of the world like the middle east turn to religion due to the ungodly effects of western imperialism, not to justify to awful HR records many religious countries have
I'm not sure how much I agree with the quote you sourced though, i personally don't believe that any cultures or religions are superior to others, though I do believe, as you said that all should be criticised in some way or another
again, thank you for enjoying my content !!!
@@unajoy wow thanks for responding so soon, this point on how colonialism has affected indigenous cultures is excellent, I touched a little upon it, thanks for bringing it to my attention to think about it more. About 'punishment' of the population as I wrote it should be non lethal, and obviously it should be followed with help to remove the mindset imprinted by the propaganda with education and compassion later on (marshall plan for example). Lastly a quick correction about the quote because it seems You misunderstood it a little when it says "not every culture is equal" the quote doesn't mean to say some cultures are better than others. It means to say some cultures and religions don't value equality (are not equal to each human being). Like punishment of death for homosexuality in law based on Islamic religion.
@@unajoy thanks for the heart. Looking forward to your next upload in the future. You slay Girl with these video essays, so meticulously researched and presented!
Hearing you bust out the LITERAL bible and read from it directly was so cathartic to hear, and i will be quoting it directly when i get into my next argument with a zionist about it
4:37 I would argue that religions are not loving, they can be violent. The issue is there is no right way to interpret a religions contextual clues and thus a violent interpretation if vague enough can be either interpreted as metaphor or a call to action. But there is no right way considering Abrahamic religions are especially vague.
Another excellent video, thanks!
this is off topic from the focus of this video, but i so love the firewatch background music!! it really helps add the calmness in a very not-so-calm discussion like this, it really adds a lovely touch of joy. thank you for your humanity, i can tell that this is a really good thing and a much needed video, i dont know if you need to hear this but keep going! you got this!! ❣❣
very well done and researched video!
thank you!!
Peace, justice and reconciliation
my dyslexic mind reads unajoy as uragoy under this video title
Keep on the good job! You are a pearl of humanity.
❤From Morocco
thank you so much !!!! thats so sweet :3
MOROCCOOO🙏🙏😍😍😍🥹🥹
Thanks for this video, I had an argument with my mom recently and she said that because the hamas killed Israelis in Gaza, and built trenches, that Israel can kill them, and that if they don't, that the hamas will kill Israel, she also said that almost all Muslims are "fanatics" and when I brought up how much Israel is supported by big and rich countries, she said that the fanatism will be enough. After that she said that If I died and we lived there she would become a "wolf" and kill as many people as needed. And I told her wtf, don't do that, that's kinda evil. Anyways, sorry for the rant it really upset and it's nice to see someone with sources talk about this argument) I am still in the process of checking them but they all looke pretty credible, good job
Your mom was right
The fact that people say that if you oppose Israel you are an absolute radical that can’t see logic is quite funny in my opinion, i got a jewish stepfather and we discuss this a lot, i personally do not agree with Israel and its policies, i have absolutely no problem with any jews or any other group, but I sincerely cannot support the government and its acts of violence against the people that lived there.
free palestine!
hows that rain world video going
so fucking true my friend
it will come out please give me time ....
No freedom until we're all free 🇵🇸
As a Pagan Shamanic Satanist who was raised Presbytarian I find myself very often holding conversation with followers of the Abrahamic faiths, discussing the tenets of their belief and the happenings of the texts of their religions. I am utterly fascinated by them, and love those who do not act unjustly. I find myself in literal awe reading the Old Testament, and believe our modern texts are quite beautiful in segments, and contain very many fundamental truths. I am not exactly a Diest, but can see the merit in Deism. My own spiritual belief is often mired in the popular perception of pagan mysticism; but to me the metaphysical is just another lense with which to view the abstract 'other' outside of the self.
When I saw the title of the video I was cautiously giddy, having browsed the channel's videos after seeing the thumbnail and title of a video from the channel regarding a trans narrative or perspective contained within Celeste. (I am a nonbinary trangender individual) I then sat my tanky ass down to watch the USSR Iceberg and got a good vibe out of it, and so was heartened by the prospect of a thoughtful perspective into the ongoing Isreal-Palestine conflict.
I have held discussion with a few Palestinians and Isreali Jewish folk in trying to understand the region and the struggles and why on this green earth I keep hearing about the government of Isreal doing unspeakable things. I do find it ironic that in 2023 this subject's discourse is being held more widely as I have been a hashtag FREEPALESTINE-er ever since I grew into a burgeoning understanding of our world as a young adult well over a decade ago. I am apalled at the actions nation's governments have taken (or not taken) in complicity to the crisis which besets the region; However, I am not surprised that 'post'-colonial powers gunna 'post'-colonialism.
The part of the video that I am endeared to the most here is in separating a government from the governed. I am highly critical of a lot of governments, but always stipulate that my ire and ill-feelings do not apply to a monolith, but apply to the unjust systems which go on in self-perpetuity. (states yo, who needs em? 😂)
All this is to say thank you for providing a mature contribution to conversation at hand. You are appreciated, you are valid, and you are probably going to be subscribed too.
[p.s. I really enjoy the readings from the texts you have provided, I swear I end up being a better preacher to christians than most chirstians I know because I have read much of the Bible and in fact love the book, I mean its got so many kewl stories, dog]
tysm for checking out my other videos & i'm glad you enjoyed them!!! hope 2 see you stick around ^^
28:53 allthough i didnt enjoy your celeste video that much, this is a very intelligent thing to say
If only I could just know what is correct all the time and not have to worry about if what i am being told or led to believe is true or not.
the sources are linked below if you wanted to follow them up
nothing is correct everything is subjective
I knew I liked you
I think there is a hieroglyph or somethinh from the time of Ramses II and III. 1155 BCE. Referring to the people from there as Peleset.
What if I say that both are not good?
I am pro Israeli but i have to represent palestine in the MUN and needless to say,watching this is going to be painful but hopefully i learn something new
Neve knew you could pack so much ignorance into one short video. Just an example, Gaza is NOT an open air prison. Gaza shares a border with Egypt and, for some unknown reason, Egypt won't let Gazans out. Go figure....
Thank you
as an lgbtq person living in isreal (ignore pfp and name pls it a weird story) i dont support any of the sides, and im not trying to say anything aginst anyone here.but the goverment in isreal is terrible and it represents a very specific part of the people here, although their a majority of the society sadly, but there is a part in the people here who is actually reasonable and support both sides (in the means of being about helping palastianian people and being against the terror organization that controls there) and ant to share the land in a good way, im sorry for any grammer mistakes and for everything i sayed wrong and in general, hopes this ends soon
(srry)
mmm check please
errrm check please
It is an act of memoricide on your part to say that it is dumb on the part of the other actually SEMITIC PEOPLE, including those indigenous to the territories COLONIZED by Israel, to reclaim and commit to THEIR SEMITIC identity. YES. I as an Arab am a Semite and YOU WILL NOT tell me I am not the same way the Zionists claim that Palestine didn’t exist.
Use anti-Jew, judeophobia, to refer to what’s memoricidally referred to as antisemitism.
I don’t care enough to listen to this video but yes, Israelis are indigenous:
1: self identification: Yes, self explanatory
2: historical continuity, yes, Israeli or even ashkenazi Jews still carry levant traditions and celebrate things like Passover the return to Israel and speak Hebrew a language from the levant, which has been read in Torah scroll since even before the Roman exile
3: strong links to territories, I mean if a border dispute or any border defines indigenous that’s just dumb, native Americans don’t have political borders. For Jews the non political border is Canaan.
4: I mean democracy is cool. Most of the world even Palestinians- wait never mind but most of the world uses democracy even people indigenous to where they’re from.
5: Yes, they do have their own language considered a Semitic language, know from the levant semetic.
6: form non dominant groups in society, does not specify within their own state, could be worldwide. If talking about world wide it would be yes they don’t form a dominant group making up only 14 million out of 8 billion people.
7: yes?? Israel is focused on maintaining their ancient structures and traditions unique to Jews.
8: Genetic claim. Ashkenazis and mizrahis claim up to 90% Levantine dna, around 40-70 for Ashkenazi and European Sephardis.
There are much better arguments than lies to support Palestine you know?
From what I can see, you don't really know what being indigenous is.
"Indigenous" is used for people for whom, suffered oppression under colonialism, usually settler colonialism. There is an ethnic identity in Indian Subcontinent called 'Bengali.' Under British and Portugese colonial occupation, the Bengali WERE indigenous. After the British left in 1947, the Bengali stopped being indigenous and the word was no longer used. Also, "genetic claim" doesn't matter. From the 11th century onward, Arabs, Kurds, Persians, Turks, Uighurs migrated to Bengal with the support of the Mughals. Despite having no genetic claim or connection to the land, called themselves 'Bengali' and lived under British occupation. As such, they were also indigenous. Indigenous is used in a COLONIAL relation and as such, your entire argument doesn't even make sense.
@ so you’re saying you can’t be indigenous without being constantly oppressed? According to what, something you just made up?
i saved this video
You lost me right on the first point...not worth watching
I completely agree in supporting palestine, but taking hamas at their word that they just want a democratic free state is quite naive.
Words change to adapt, and so do territorial claims.
Murder has a different meaning in war. If a criminal breaks into a police station holding a hostage and starts shooting the cops, and the cops shoot back ultimately killing the hostage, it was the criminal with blood on their hands. Hamas is the criminal, and the Gazan civilians are the hostages.
Capturing territory in war is not theft.
Sure, lying is common is politics. Agreed.
Counterattack and genocide are different words entirely.
Palestinians share genetic heritage all over the Arabic word, as do many Israeli Jews.
The Torah, which has been unchanged for thousands of years talks about Jews strong links to Israel countless times. What are you even talking about.. no link... come on.
Distinct means something is different or separate from something else of the same type. There are no other countries who have the same set of laws as Israel.
There are growing movements to restore the temple mount and build the third temple. People are absolutely trying to restore historical sites and return them to use.
Because the Torah says they can is not a good reason. Agreed.
Nowhere else to go is not a reason to take over a land. Agreed.
Arabs have the rest. Doesn't matter. Agreed.
Israel had been conquered and controlled by a dozen empires and mindsets. Taking it over as Palestinian is just as crazy as doing so as a Christian or Israeli or any other group.
Genocide is intent. The blood is on the hands of Hamas.
Why should Palestine negotiate? Because they lost a war. That's what happened in every other territory war in human history.
Hamas started the war. The conflict was started by the British/French.
Boiling points came countless times. Including when the Muslims attacked and took it over hundreds of years before.
Nobody deserves to be attacked for something that happened before their birth. Agreed.
Hamas isn't ISIS. Agreed. Duh.
Almost all of the Muslim world is anti-LGBT among other inhumane practices such as FGM and honor killings, but that isn't relevant here. Agreed.
lol wut
well, isn't circumcision genital mutulation aswell?
Israel has a history of constant overreaction to beeing attacked... and at that point self-defence becomes retalliation and creates an escalation spiral.
Self defence on the attack would have been manning the borders before it happend.
there is a big left-wing festival and a right wing gouvernment fails to protect exactly that part of the border at that time?
just after right wing changes to undermine the juristiction in Israel failed and were blocked by left and central people protesting against said changes?
all just coincidence i am shure.
Palestine lost
Boo hoo!🙄🙄🙄🙄
Cry me a river!😒😒😒
Israel genocides
Humanity lost.