2 days of cold break in for Lada motor - for what purpose?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ค. 2024
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I still want to see a v8 or inline 8 made from a few lada engines
They literally did an in-line 16 out of 4 lada engines
@@jamescrugnale2763 im talking about fuzing them not attaching them by the driveshafts
I want see W12 from some Lada engines:)
They made a inline 6 cylinder out of two lada engines about a year ago.
@@Pwills Yeah but it was garbage:)
My theory is rings depend on cylinder pressure to force them against the cylinders; not just the spring-tension of the rings themselves. It's been my experience with fresh engines is you warm them up, then do some short full-throttle pulls in high gear, followed by closed-throttle coast-downs. This creates a short stint of high cylinder pressure to force the rings into the cylinder, followed by high cylinder vacuum to suck oil up past the rings and lubricate everything.
When you do it this way, the FIRST time you close the throttle, the engine will smoke pretty good. The second time, much less smoke. No smoke the third time. You're done. Take it home, change the oil, and put the engine into service.
That's how i've always done it. Heat and pressure are what seat the rings. You're right. There is a finite window for this to happen, too.
What they've done here is sometimes referred to as glazing the bores, which is bad.
Never do this. Youll cause excessive wear. Engines need to be broken in gently.
@@Chris-yy7qc that's a myth. Engines are mostly broken in at the factory. They run them up to redline at the factory. Multiple times.
@@detaart this is really true with modern engines with thin rings. The rings are a harder material and to get a proper ring bed you need pressure to seat them.
@@Chris-yy7qc Absolutely a myth. A gentle break in is the worst thing you can do.
I thought about this in the past but never had the courage to talk to someone about it, there is always someone ready to call me crazy whenever I have this kind of ideas, glad that it works even better than I expected!
TBH this is pretty pointless. Bearings don't need breaking in, because they always operate with a layer of oil between themselves and the moving parts.
When 'break in' an engine, you're really breaking in the piston rings and cylinder bores. And for that, they require cylinder pressure. ie, the engine needs to be assembled and running under heavy load. The cylinder pressure presses the rings hard against the cylinder walls and beds them in.
@@Kj16V yep some manufacturers have issues with police car engines. Those are very often idling while the COP is being ready and steady on his/her shift. Glancing is a very common issue b/c of low pressure circumstances on piston rings... even worse for Diesel engines!
@@Kj16V Yes that makes sense, the pressures applied under load would generate an ovality against one cylinder wall, power side. Would this procedure not give a better starting point though, ie perfect sealing before applying power and the resultant shape change?
The numerous race engines ive built has never had a conventional type of break in period.
Although i check
Oil consumption and watch reductions in E.T. to track when its broken in fully.
Although the circle track engines break in the first race its in and consume oil in that race the same thing applies. Lap times get better once its broke in.
Cold break in was a great idea to put into action. Great video!
Solid!
Top KEK!
Peace be with you.
Also dont forget about the pcv system that pulls a vacuum on the engine that helps to scavenge oil off the rotating parts and cylinder walls. Awesome videos and tests! Keep up the great work!
this renews my faith in humanity that there are good people like u guys in a troubled time where there seems to b no common sense .
Excellent engine rebuild, nothing missed. Good idea for break in, I'm impressed.
That engine looks great. I love how the projects cover the spectrum from jank to high quality. Also love all the Lada content and I really want to see the one this engine is going into. I'd love to see one that matches the niceness of this rebuild.
This was like one video before I saw Shorty and I'm in love. I want a Lada someday but they are rare in the US. The 2100 series with round headlights are my favorite. Vlad's drift missile is cool as hell too, I love wagons.
Great video! We did this back in the 90's with IMZ and KMZ motorcycles we imported into the USA, as well as old BMW /2. The end result was much better than using hot break in.
Comment above is a bot. Silly bots everywhere nowadays!
The rings need combustion pressure against them to seal the chamber properly, ring break in happens within first run , very nice looking engine build btw
That's a great looking Lada engine!
At the combustion cycle, the cylinder pressure maximum is approx. 30-40 bar which pressure is also pressing the compression ring to the cylinder wall (goes behind the ring). This is not a proper/usual engine break-in, but thank you for the visually rich video.
This was the comment I was looking for, also a break-in specific oil without any friction modifiers is best.
When you are breaking it in by running the engine the compression will stop most of the oil making it up past the ring's! 👌💚💛❤️
Yeah no lol. You don't know how engines work ...
Do you drive your car with wide open throttle 100% of the time?
When you lift your foot off the gas, the throttle body closes, and then there is a vacuum ... actually sucking up oil past the rings in worn motors.
Under normal driving conditions with a naturally aspirated engine, the manifold is always under a vacuum.
@@detaart was meaning from the combustion pressure pushing it down. Vacuum comes from the intake sucking air into the cylinder then it compresses the mixture then it explodes , then the exhaust gases are pushed out by the upstroke of the piston.
@@rastaralph7154 And when you lift off the pedal ... combustion is occurring?
Before combustion can occur ... the engine has to SUCK in the air/mixture required for combustion ...
@@rastaralph7154 true but the vacuum also sucks whatever it can from below the piston and rings.
I hope we can see that engine performing soon, in one of your outrageous builds? I'd like to see how it does, even if it's in a regular Lada or something.
They've actually come up with a really cool idea for it. Tuesday's video is also going to feature this motor, and what comes after that - well, I do know what they have in mind, but I haven't seen the video yet, and I don't know whether they were successful. But in any case - it should be fun.
Agreed, it would be cool to see this engine in action. SwapBlog said this motor was featured in a video back in March or April 2023 (8 months ago). I would love to see the Garage54 team test a Toyota engine and compare it to a Lada engine. Toyota cars are pretty reliable. Then, compare them to a Chevy or Ford engine. The Lada and Toyota engine would probably outlast the Chevy and Ford engines.
Every time I see this man I grab a seat and my popcorn cause I’m about to be amazed and learn something new he just gives me crazy ideas he def a top notch Master
Приезжайте в Россию у нас каждый школьник соберёт и разберёт двигатель ваз
Happy to see you're still going strong in those tough times.
All the best.
its an old videos...
@@bulvekasis6954 Not actually. Video from a week ago.
Times are tough?
@@notsponsored103 in Ukraine, yes, some parts of Russia. Yes (there's still a war going on FYI) I don't know where they are set up shop, but I hope they are alright.
@@jwalster9412 the shop is about 3500 kilometers away from the war zone.
fellas you guys do a wonderful job at building and engineering
I've done this with small engines. A Tecumseh on a snow blower, and a Briggs & Stratton on a roto-tiller. Both, very successful. In both cases, the cylinder heads were installed, the Tecumseh is a flat-head side valve engine, The Briggs & Stratton is an overhead valve engine. It was amazing how little oil the engines burn, and, they seem to have a lot of power. The oil seems to stay clean longer than other small engines that I've owned. I've never had a chance to try this with a rebuilt or new automobile engine, but, having seen this video, I can't help but think it would work just as well. When doing the small engines, I sized the pulleys to run the engines at full governed speed.(3,600 RPM) I didn't have a variable frequency drive, I just ran the motor right off the mains. I did each of them for ~8 hours each. I could really smell the oil that came into the chambers, as it left the sparkplug holes. I didn't see any dripping, or any visible mist, but, you could feel the oil film on the tops of the engines. Running, they burn absolutely clean.
I must try that, I have a 1/4 hp engine I can use.
I want to see you guys apply some boost to a stock lada motor and see what it can take.
Probably about as much at a all cast I4.
I did enjoy the detailing videos on your other channel. I wouldnt mind a few more videos like this on this channel too.
What happened to my frickin car?!
@@nicholasagnew2792 Its cool man, imma detective. Clear the crime scene and let me think...
..meteors did it!!
The other channel? Upskirts of women being chucked round a car park in a rally car? (I'm not complaining).
@@martinda7446 Lol, I was talking about the detailing channel. But yeah...
@@thatsgottahurt 😸
This was cool to see thank you!
The editing quality on this video is really good you guys stepped your game up👍
That's actually a great idea! I've used molybdenum disulfide when rebuilding engines on the rings and bore. The compression you then get is fantastic
Lol no it's an awful idea.
@@RollingRoadEFI It works. Done it. Try it!
@@AlbertDongler No thanks. I'll stick with what's proven.
A hundred times I have used MOS2 on new rings and they only ever properly seated about 10 times. Red wheel bearing grease is a much better deal. Probably real actual white engine assembly grease would be better yet.
5:50 *Patlat!*
Okay, super-obscure TH-cam reference, dunno how many people are gonna get that!
Got to have heat for proper ring break in. When metal get hot it expands.
I don't know about a Lada motor but normally pistons are machined non circular so that expand and fit into the bore properly when at temperature. I don't think this contraption is doing much. Especially because it is very difficult for the oil control rings to scrape off cold thick oil.
@@otm646 plus the Combustion Pressure helps seat the rings as well.
I think it be awesome to see you guys install a lada engine in to a snowmobile haha.
Good video fellas. I’d like to see that engine with a set of dome pistons. Get that compression high. Then see how it performs. I’ll be watching.
I wish you guys would have a second channel where you actually show us the process of refurbishing the engine in more detail.
It just feels like the simplistic prinsible of the Lada makes it perfect for teaching fundamentals and basics of working on cars.
Can you convert and run a 4 banger crank from flat plane to cross plane please.
Edit: I know about R1 but I wanna see if this works on a bigger scale ⚖️.
Thank you.
I would be very interested also!
Same here. That would be awesome to see.
I need to see this. It would require reworking the camshaft also, but it would sound so cool, like a v8.
I wouldn't be surprised if the R1s engine is bigger than that lada one.
@@davidrobert2007 yup 👍🏼
I'm seeing this for the first time, I can't believe it...Indestructible Laika! ;-)
Great video
Good job guys. I was wondering what kind of blast cabinet is that. Thanks
Garage 54,you actually make Ladas interesting
Watching a fully rebuilt engine looking shiny and new and imagining how well it would perform is super satisfying 😎
It's a Lada - should put out all of 50hp.
@@joebloggs2635 Yeah, great! 🙂
I would like to see you guys build a low dollar high horsepower Lada engine someday. Maybe see how much boost a stock Lada can take or high RPMs or both?
Very fascinating
He did do good, that is good compression, and the oil stopped getting by.
One problem with this...multi grade engine oil is designed to provide optimum lubrication properties at 218 centigrade. Spinning the engine over cold might not be perfect. Another problem, The combustion pressure normally will cause the rings to spring outward against the cylinder bore, preventing excess oil bypass.
After breaking things in, we let them warm up and to full temp and rip them hard as hell.
Always great ring seating, and never issues.
If it blows up you f*cked up the build
My grandfather use too do this with all engines he use to build back in the 1930-1940s. he did it for the same reasons you are. He claimed it worked.
This looks like an awesome idea. Ill definitely try it next time I build a motor.
I bet a Lada block could handle a lot of boost. Iron block closed deck. It looks a lot like a 4g63.
You guys should try to build a high boost Lada engine (maybe with forged internals and high strength studs) and see if you can push it to the limits of the engine block, head, or crank, until one breaks.
I wonder how the compression would change after it gets up to temp after a cold break in?
All my racing engines never got a break in, it was straight to making passes.
good stuff
Very interesting.
now all that's needed is twin carbs extractor manifold and high lift cam would make an exciting project i think ?🤔.
with the head mounted the compression should prevent the oil from going past the rings , its an interesting idea that i might try some time
That was the thickest cylinder wall I've ever seen. you could seriously bore that cylinder out. With that much 'meat' you could probably get 50% extra capacity from that block!
I like seeing Garage 54 rebuild worn engines! But please make sure to use gloves at all steps as those chemicals for de-greasing can be carcinogenic. Be safe Garage 54!
I agree with previous commenter that you need compression to force the rings against the cylinder walls
I did that with Vespa 2 stroke motors
2 full battery packs and then put on the head and have fun 😊
Variable frequency drives are neat.
I would've ran the engine with the head on, under compression. Reason being that it needs compression for the rings to seal properly. Then hook up an amp clamp to read the current drawn by the electrical motor. When the current reading settles I'd consider the break in done. Also, you can't expect an engine not to let any oil pass by the rings when's cold. It takes an engine at operating temperature to seal perfectly, because of the dilatation of the piston/rings/block. The piston is usually slightly oval and becomes round at normal operating temperature, because the dilatation is not the same in all directions.
Very nice 👍💚💛❤️👌
i kinda like this. instead of breaking an engine you give it new life.
that Lada motor will outlast any humans after new pistons cold brake in
I didn't 'grasp' the phrase -cold break'in - until now. You REALLY MEAN COLD break it Well named. I just didn't get my head around it at the time. Let the games begin *** I approved this video ***
When engine warms up in use, cylinder will shrink little bit and piston getting larger, and aluminum have bigger heating x to per temp. So that oil isn't problem when use. Pressure will push it down when burn cycles.
I say that looks good, or even fantastic before seen fully assembled.
I don't think oil even need to been changed, just filter.
For better simulate and results, that motor and oil should be warm some 80 Celsius. Oil usually design used in hot motor.
That oil passing is just fine and normal. Will work better than new.
Can you please build legit turbo lada, something like sleeper ! :))
Love this. What are the biggest pistons you can put in a lada?
I saw a 240Z taken out to a shade under 2.8L . The walls were thin. I remember one wall failed !!. Sleeving was the sollution perhaps just one cylinder ?
What were we supposed to take from this compression-test, or compare it too?
Спасибо Garage 54.
Если вы хотите провести обкатку в сибирских морозах, то можно поддерживать блок холодным без головки с помощью сухого льда через водяной контур. При наличии головки, но без цепи ГРМ засыпьте сухой лед в отверстия для пробок, закрутите пробки и подсоедините манометр к сапуну картера. При закрытой вентиляции картера с манометром на холостом ходу и установленном и правильно отрегулированном регуляторе давления от ацетиловой системы давление в картере не должно превышать указанного производителем предела износа на литр вытесняемого воздуха в минуту. Прозрачная 10-литровая канистра с максимальным количеством масла, которое разрешено выбрасывать двигателю, соединена с пустой канистрой через верхний штуцер шланга, в который собирается выбрасываемое масло. Первая канистра стоит низко, а рядом с ней - вторая, которая вентилируется сверху через небольшой воздушный фильтр (топливный фильтр). Когда масло попадает во вторую канистру, замеряется секундомером, можно подождать, пока все масло не будет вытеснено. Затем вторую канистру можно поднимать до тех пор, пока масло не начнет поступать обратно. Асинхронный двигатель. Частотный преобразователь. Вольтметр. Амперметр и измеритель энергии перед асинхронным двигателем должны быть достаточными. Пружинный измеритель крутящего момента на ремне со шкалой и измеритель частоты вращения двигателя делают его идеальным. До +78,37° без воды.
С профессиональным приветствием
Михаэль Фритьоф Мюллер
384 16:10:2023 15;25:01
the break in also needs heat cycles, and how much nitrous oxide can a stock lada lump take?
Lada submarine!
You can measure the power required to spin the motor and or the RPM for a given frequency just to measure how free running it is and if it improves. Not that you would learn too much, but when you measured RPM I expected you to do it again after run in.
i wan to see you guys turbo one of these motors those rods look beefy
The problem i see is when the cylinders get pressurized and the engine gets up to temperature the rings would be far from broken in again if not even causing irregular wear because pressurized rings tend to contact evenly different places of the cylinder instead of the dragging thrust, however this is a great method to get the engine a step closer to the ideal break in. Setting in the rings just needs the engine get up to temperature, having low to variable load for 20 minutes to half an hour and open the throttle wide open 2-3 times with the engine loaded.
There's nothing else engine build wise except that it's no secret that after as much as 8000-10.000 kilometers the engine would start to work smoother and get improved performance when the rings would start wearing off the cylinders getting in matching shape and reducing friction, but that is only on cars, for example on airplanes that would mean it's time for a rebuild.
i wish i could have these guys rebuild my moskvich.
Build a 1 inch spacer for the head to build volume and boost it! Let’s see what kind of power it’ll make!!
What is the reason of doing it like you are? I'm curious to see if it happens at all.
I always thought the piston rings needed combustion pressure to press the ring down flat against the bottom of it's groove land in order to develop a proper wear pattern.
of course,that is how rings seal.
Valve lapping? Throw away the suction one. Get a drill and some vacuum hose, stick hose over a drill bit and over the back on the valve, run back and forward. So much easier.
That's interesting.
How much oil pressure can you feed a running engine before it causes problems? Maybe run an engine under load while force feeding it 150 psi oil.
there's a very small problem with this idea : an engine is supposed to run hot for a break in because all of the parts into the engine will change in size due to higher temperature and this expansion will change the results ( in F1 there's no pistons rings so they must warm all the fluids to cause the expansion to allow the engine to run...compressions in f1 are way higher than in a normal car)
if no car brand did a cold break in since 120 years it's because there's a reason (heat is important because of the engine components expansion)
Where did you read F1 engines don't use piston rings? That's false
They do have pison rings they are low tension and there is one compression and one oil ring.
@@iknowyourebrokeauto468 Pistons rings in an F1? how can they manage to fit rings while the space between pistons and cylinders is so small that the engine is seize when cold
Richard Hammond explains it better than me at 3:00 in this video:
th-cam.com/video/kUhB0JKjJrQ/w-d-xo.html
F1 is not a car it's pure technology (they invent alloy only for these cars)
@@amorag59 old V10 and Richard Hammond trying to drive an F1th-cam.com/video/kUhB0JKjJrQ/w-d-xo.html
@themetalslayer2260 th-cam.com/video/lCEKJxHiEIM/w-d-xo.html if it didn't have rings no matter how tight the tolerances once it got to operating Temps it would have no compression. th-cam.com/video/lCEKJxHiEIM/w-d-xo.html
I think the compression rings will not seat without pressure on the top of them.
Why a relatively high temperature oil SAE10-40 (t=7:40) for an engine that is going to be rotating without combustion, wouldn't SAE 0-20 be a better choice?
Idea: have a small engine maybe 1 cylinder to force air into a Lada engine like a supercharger/ turbocharger
The piston rings only work with combustion gasses. The blow by enters the gap and thereby expands the rings against the cylinder wall
It will be interesting too see the results as usual but I would expect that it would be much better to run in the engine with compression and at operating temperature, obviously the compression is needed to push the rings against the cylinder correctly but also everything grows a bit and changes shape when the engine gets to operating temperature so I would expect you would want everything to be run in for perfect fitment & sealing at operating temp, not when cold?
A Lada OPENS UP A Lada POSSIBILITIES.
So many different ways to break in a new or freshly rebuilt engine, and nobody can agree on what's best, usually resulting in much internet expert arguing... :P
Those lada engines are pretty tough, has anyone ever done any insane amount of tuning on one to see what it will take? Huge turbo etc?
It would be funny to see a methol fed turbo lad-zilla
Old good engines gonna live long
I've been wanting Garage54 to make a turbo-compound Lada engine for a long time now.
The only reason oil is making it onto the crown of the piston is because there is no head on the block to create pressure above the piston which would stop that oil from making it onto the piston crown.
Interesting.
What if you lapped in the rings with very fine diamond polishing paste?
Just enough to polish things..
The crank wasn't vented so the oil was gonna work its way up. Take the tape off the timing chain area. The crank vent is on the cylinder head and it's not installed
Ok so the theory is good but in practice there’s one major factor that you’ve missed, unless you have the cylinder head on or the block surface mostly sealed the rings won’t be forced against the bores to eliminate the over oiling that you’re experiencing.
Thas grad .
I never see dis be for .
soud gud .
grad work.
Rebuild a lotta engine with high compression you make it real powerful fast
Curious, why not fully assemble the engine and do the break in?
When do we see it run ?????
Can you make a video where you use pure crude oil for stuff? For example, use it as motor oil, or as fuel in a diesel engine, and so on....
So doesn't an engine need heat to break in properly, so the piston rings expand and seal off top end from bottom end. Doing it cold could score the cylinder walls because the rings aren't fully expanded?
I wanted to see it run after the cold run in
Are you guys making a street tuned Lada again?
can you guys make clear exhaust system and clear catalytic converter
How much liquid nitrogen does it take to crack a hot block?
I would really love to see an old Lada engine rebuilt with a turbo...lol