Not sure about favorite, but the 444 clearly has the energy advantage here. If you really want to see a good deer catcher, load the 444 with a Swift A-Frame Revolver Bullet Cal. 44 in 280 or 300 grain. The Barnes XPB 200 grain is a real screamer, too. Be careful, though, as you may lose the entire shoulder meat with either bullet.
I love both and I have both so just depends on what I feel like shooting that day. I turned 50 this year and I remember as a younger man my uncle always hunted with a 444. To a young person it was a cannon. I was always so impressed with that rifle. My uncle passed away a few years back and I asked my aunt what ever happened to that rifle. She said it was sitting in the safe and hadn’t been used for a few years because it was just too much for my uncle to shoot anymore. I asked if I could buy it and she took it out of the safe and gave it to me. It does have cash value but that rifle means more to me than bag full of money. One day it will be passed down to one of my sons.
I also have one handed down to me from my uncle. I used it for about a decade until MY nephew started using it. He got so attached to it, my dad bought him one so I could have mine to myself.
If I wasn't one of those begging for this video I absolutely wanted to be. I own a Marlin (real JM Marlin) in .444. Because of that, I never could justify coughing up the cash for anything in 45-70 even though I got a hankerin for one occasionally. This video just proved to me there is no need for a 45-70 in my safe. I will say that 45-70 appeared to be more available during the last ammo crunch than .444. Further, .444 if it could be found, wasn't to be had for less than $4 per round!! Glad its back on the shelves at a fairly reasonable price. Finally, from what I could see in your video, it looked like the .444 smoked the 45-70. Thanks for the great content!!
Most 45-70 factory loads are loaded to be safe in older guns. Lots of room to step it up. Still, it won't kill a bear any deader than the 444 Marlin. Thanks for the video.
I bought a new Marlin .444 in 1964 when they first came out. I was 20 years old back then. I still have my reloading dies for it. I had to sell it 15 years later to pay some bill as young people with two children usually do. I miss that Marlin and if Ruger make this Marlin again I'll buy another one. In later years I owned a Ruger #3 carbine in 45-70 cal. It was brutal to fire because it was a lightweight rifle. A falling block single shot with a straight stock. I enjoyed my Marlin much more. It shot further and flatter than the #3. As a native Arizonan I shoot in the deserts, canyons and mountains.
First rifle i ever fired at 8 years old. Dad sat me down and said "just hold onto the rifle", opened my eyes after it fired, was looking at the sky. Lol good ole days.
I have several of each in Marlin rifles and couple of scouts in each caliber thanks to your videos on both. I’m glad to see a current rifle chambered in 444 , that should help to keep the caliber alive Good video Thanks
@@KevinBlankenship-p6m Grizzly munitions and Underwood Ammo both make hardcasts for the 444 actually. Unfortunately the Grizzly rounds (I haven't tried Underwood's loadout) don't work well out of my dad's old Marlin. I think in the newer guns they would work great though. I hope Ruger will make a good 444 soon.
I owned a Marlin .444 lever gun when they were in North Haven CT when Bill Ruger Sr was still alive before they ended up being owned by Ruger ... Accurate but those rounds were expensive. Kudos to TC for being smart and offering this caliber in their platform.
I have both of those rifles and like them both. I have an email from CVA that says that the 45-70 scout will handle loads rated for Marlin 1895 rifles. These loads are hotter than regular factory loads, which are loaded light for older guns. My normal 45-70 load flings a 300 grain bullet at around 2100 fps. It kicks some, but the Scouts muzzle brake helps tame the recoil.
I’ve got a 444 handi rifle. It’s like a high speed cannon ball through a whitetail. They don’t usually go past spitting distance. I hope to see a Ruglin 444 available soon!
I have the Winchester Model 94 Big Bore with angle eject in T4. The Winchester Big Bore can handle up to 10% more chamber pressure than the Marlins because of the beefed up receiver. The Hornady Superformance is the top load for me. I am not a fan of the Hornady FTX Leverevolution rounds because of the bullet separation but I would use them in a pinch. I reload the T4 using the Sierra 240 gr. Sportsman which is a revolver cartridge but is still tough enough for game up to elk. I load 300 gr. Hornady for my .45-70 at 2000 fps at the muzzle. I can get more velocity using the H 4198 or IMR 4198 but a hunter really doesn't need that much power for normal hunting except maybe big bears. But then, I'd be loading 350 RN's for big bears at 2000 fps. I'm a big bore lover and have no rifles less the .308 caliber. Anything less doesn't show on my radar.
Used the .45-70 on multiple hunts. Deer, hogs, moose. Heaviest rounds i used was the 500 grain hard cast for moose. Used 300-325 gain ammo for everything else.
@@shawnsparkman7916: I’d bet you didn’t have any problems dropping that moose did you. I have a Henry 45-70 side gate and love it, it’s not a distance rifle but it would derail a train at 200 yards.
I've had a Marlin lever gun in .444 for 42 years and I bought a CVA Scout in the same caliber in September. I'm very impressed with the accuracy of the CVA. I'm on my 3rd 45-70 I just picked up a Browning 1885 45-70 and before that I had a Ruger No.1 and a Marlin 1895 in 45-70.
@itsjustjoe3790 He's not saying to shoot a .444 Marlin out of a 4.10 shotgun. He is saying .444 brass can be used for handload 4.10 shot shells. You have to use a shot card over the shot, because you can't crimp it like a plastic shotgun hull.
@@brianschumaker5912 thanks! I finally got the answer. That would be a nice hunting setup. Keep a few of those in your pocket for grouse. I used a 44 lever action and some 44 shot shells with that idea but it seemed like it was a little weak for both big game and grouse.
@@fredeschen3783you would shoot .444 brass loaded with shot out of a shotgun. Shooting shot shells out of a rifled bore gives a pattern like a doughnut.
My family owned a sporting goods store for about 25 years. One day a distant cousin came in and wanted to buy a .444 marlin in SS.444. We tried to get him to take a 45-70 guide gun which was brand new just released at the time but his heart was set even though i didnt understand why. That is untill the gun came in and we took it outside to shoot it. If you can handle the recoil these things are beasts with out of the box ammo no handloading needed like the 45-70. It was Hugely powferful medicine stick. Lol. The cousin ended up taking quite a few deer with that rifle and was really proud of it and its being such an unusual choice in our area.
@@davidlindler3534 Yes but I have the old microgroove Marlin that doesn't stabilize the longer flex tips. So very curious on the performance of the flat points I stockpiled up on
Reading the comments, there is a lot of love for the trip4. I have both the trip4 and the .45-70 and love them both. The advantage the .45-70 has over the 444 is the different bullet weights usable in the .45-70, from 250 to 600 grains. The ultimate 444 load is the Hornady Superformance 265 grain. It generates over 3400 ft.lbs of muzzle energy. I reload the .45-70 because the factory ammo is intentionally powered down for the old Springfield Trap Door models still in use. I try to load a high for caliber velocity of over 2100 fps for the .45-70 with over 3400 ft.lbs. of energy at the muzzle. Both rifles will dispatch anything in North America and even Africa. Thank you for the side-by-side comparison.
Don't have a 444 Marlin, but I can attest to the 45-70 handloaded with a 350 grain Swift A Frame bullet. It absolutely flattened a big 8 point I shot several years ago. It was a quartering shot last rib left side, and came to rest in the hide after smashing the right shoulder. Bullet retained 97% weight and mushroomed nicely. I think either round would work great for deer, black bear, or hogs, but I think the 45-70 has the edge for bullet weight availability. Both are thumpers for sure.
Can’t go wrong with either. I’ve owned both, still have the 45-70. Another almost obsolete cartridge is the 375 Win. I had a model 94 and a contender barrel in 375. Great round and preferred over 45-70. Love the big bores.
I just bought the same 444 marlin. Cva scout did the sight in today very impressive before seeing this video I think with the extra velocity that 444 definitely did more to the clay
I Love these videos! These are the ones that got me to the channel! Clay blocks, water jugs, paper plates, cinder block walls, and your quick hundred yard site-ins! I think out of those two, I would go with the good old 45-70!🇺🇲✝️🇺🇲 Jonah 2:7 7 When my soul fainted within me I remembered the LORD: and my prayer came in unto thee, into thine holy temple.
I choose 45-70 simply because I have an older Marlin 1895, and a TC Encore pistol in it. The Marlin, with the 325gr LeverEvolution ammo is an absolute deer hammer.
I'm a fan and have used the 45-70. When I was in my early teens I had a unlimited source of 45-70s. 444 I've heard many swear by them but I've never had one. 45-70 was used to bust engine blocks at road ambushes. Id take the marlin 45-70
If you’re talking about factory ammo only the 444 Marlin. But if you hand load for them then the 45-70 hands down. That 444 Marlin was a bit more devastating on the clay. Just think of the 444 Marlin as a stretched 44 magnum and that 240 bullet is pretty awesome!
While I have both cartridges in guns, my preferred woods gun is the 444 Marlin with a 1-4 Nikon safari grade scope with a number for German reticle. I hand loaded 265 grain flat point interlocks over REL-7 or 4198. Usually getting around 2202 to 2250 ft./s. That round works extremely well for me. Out of my P model lever gun it Right through the engine out the other side. LMAO.
I don't own either caliber... both are impressive. The ballistics from the 444, with the velocity, terminal energy would be my pick... unless I could choose a less violent caliber. I don't like to field dress my game in one shot. Thanks
Owned both, preferred the JM Marlin I bought in 68. It is a one shot killer for larger game, mostly I went after Moose, Griz and black bear. 45-70 has a trajectory like a rainbow, 444 a little better but both excellent up to 200 yards.
Playing catch up cause I've been away for 4 days. Both are full power houses. Its a super hard pick though. 45-70 Tried and true over the years from 250-500 grain, and a lot of factory offerings. Even more so if you handload. Has taken a lot of different game over the years and has proven itself around the world. 444 Marlin is the "new" kid on the block with loadings from the 230-350 range, and again even more if you handload. Both are extremely reliable energy wise, initially depending on the loading the 45-70 carries more energy at the start but at 300 yards are basically identical. Both have the trajectory of a a underhand throw. 444 being the "flatter" of the two. ...My pick is going to be 45-70 because it has more factory loadings and you can pick more offerings based on what your rifle likes. You can walk into almost any dealer and find 45-70 on the shelf. Both are murder on the shoulder though if 444 Marlin is anything like 45-70.
I gotta go with the.444 just because of the velocity. As to the 45-70 , I agree with you about the bullet weight. It’s like the 1911 , it was designed to throw a 230gr bullet out of a 5” barrel at 850-950 fps. Going with a shorter barrel and a lighter bullet takes away from the energy transferred into the target . It’s the energy dump that makes the 230gr 45ACP out of a 5” so effective.
CVA should really make the Scout in 500 and 460 S&W since the only game in town is Big Horn Armory unless you can find a used TC at a reasonable price.
I have a Contender with barrels in both 444 and 45-70. Really like them both, but have gotten less drop out if the 444 at 300 and 400 yard shots. Have taken a bison, with the 45-70 at 125 and it preformed perfect.
Like them both, probably go with the 45-70 because I own one plus its history. My son has a 444 and with Hornady Superformance I was surprised it had more energy than my 325’s from the same manufacturer. Thanks for the video!
When I owned a Marlin lever gun back in the 1980s, I only used factory ammo. I was a hand-loader at the time but never did load for the .444. When I gave up hunting, I gave the Marlin to my son-in-law. A couple of weeks later, my daughter and son-in-law split up. Man, I wish that I had kept the Marlin. That was a really good rifle. Just don't make the mistake of buying or loading .444 ammo with .44 mag pistol bullets. That 265 grain bullet probably has a thicker / tougher jacket to stand up to the 2300-2400 fps velocity of the .444. While I owned that rifle, I always thought of it as the .44 Super Mag, which in my mind was what it was.
I have both. The 444 is more versatile than the 45-70. The deer that I shot with a handloaded Remington 405 gr. JACKETED SP.... about 50 yards. It was a fairly hot load at 1618 fps @ muzzle. It drilled a small finger sized hole straight thru the deer...shoulder to shoulder... but no bones hit. The deer ran 30 yards and dropped. Only a fist full of lung debrie was at the spot the deer was hit. Small blood trail. The 300 gr. HSP bullet is better than the 405 SP. I saw a Remington 300 gr bullet penetrate almost length wise in a deer, blowing the hell out of a deer.... tore it up a lot! Gut shot. A real mess! It ran 300 to 400 yards, when we found it dead near a stream. Poor thing! But the bullet did a great job, but because of the gut shot... the deer ran far. The 444 with a good bullet, works as well if not better. I load mine down to 44 magnum performance with the 240 grain bullet. It works well. No over kill! Loaded it hotter with a heavier bullet, then you can also use it for Big Stuff.
On the slow mo it looks like the 444 had just a bit more explosive result on the clay. I handload for a Springfield trapdoor so now I may actually get a CVA in .45-70 to wring out more ballistics out of that round. It is always dangerous on my bank account watching your videos! 😂
The 45-70 was made for a 500 bullet propelled by 70 grains of black powder. The military then made a lighter carbine load with 405 grain bullet and a lower charge of black powder. The carbine loads kick a lot less.
Great Video. You shocked me when you pulled out the CVAs instead of levers. What great options for shooting these classic loads. I own a 444 JM Marlin. Unfortunately, Michigan straight wall rules won't allow it because the case is too long😔.
Dad called the .444 a brush gun. We were hunting one year and he tried to shoot a running buck. The buck ran behind a tree that was about 4-6 inches in diameter right when dad pulled the trigger and that tree saved that deers life 😂😂😂 it failed the tree but the deer kept goin. I believe we were using Hornady bullets at the time
In the 1950's, Elmer Keith performed a series of bullet penetration tests, using shredded rubber tires to simulate bear muscle. The only rifle caliber of many he tested that completely penetrated the box of 'muscle' was the .45-70. Energy, 1/2mv^2, is very important, and gives the .444 an advantage over the .45-70. But equally important is momentum, mv, which represents penetration, and here the .45-70 has the advantage, which is why Keith saw the results that he did. Both are good choices, but I prefer the .45-70 since it can be loaded (for the Scout only) to levels approaching performance of the .458 Winchester Magnum. Note that in one of the Jurassic Park films, a .45-70 was used to take down a T-Rex. Of course, if I had my druthers, I'd prefer a .45-90. In a museum I once saw a Winchester 1886 in .50-110 and I'd like that even more.
When I still had my model 95 Marlin in .45-70, I was given some hand loads that clocked the 405 grain slug at 2000 ft/sed. It kicked like a mule bit I always was able to get my buck even in the thickest slick leaf brush. I called it a poor man's elephant gun
I hunt Moose with a single shot 444 Marlin . Never felt under guned . Hunt Bear with a Marlin Lever 444 , just in case . Also have a nice stainless single shot in 45-70. Prefer the 444 Marlin . ALWAYS use the 265 gr Lever Evilution in 444 ,or the 365 gr in 45-70. Ontario Canada.
I got a BFR in 444 as a side/back up for elk hunt. Factory ammo is wicked violent. I lift a lot of weights but damn that has my wrist getting messed up. No one should get the revolver one unless they hand load frankly. 265 goin 2,000 fps. Barnes 225 XPB legitimately busts old milk jug waters like nothing I have ever seen before. 50 ft diameter spray of water and flings the bottle parts 25ft to either side
BRAVO 👏👏👏 You've been speaking my language, last few episodes. I've had a.444 since 1972. Recently bought a.45/70. My mod.70- .264 mag, favorite, and Ruger 77- .220 swift.. What's next? . How about.... .300 swm vs 7mm mag?
I hsve had the pleasure of sending both of those rounds down range from two contenders that a friend had. The 444Marlin has my vote. Another friend took a deer with a 444 and he said he could not believe the destruction that round created.
I own Both---Never hunted with either---but will try this year----for bear---probably take the 45/70 one day and the 444 Marlin the next. They both shoot great!
i am very pleased with the results of the 300 gr hp Federal black and blue box ammo out of my 1895G Marlin in 45-70 GOV. on deer. I have yet to have a whitetail run more than ten yards after impact.
I've hunted the with a 444 Marlin for over 35 years. I take nothing away from the 45 70 but with the versatility in ammo today and down range capability considered, I opt for the 444.
I was going to say "The nice thing about using clay blocks is you can beat them back into shape and reuse them". Looks like I was mistaken, there was nothing left of those blocks to reuse! LOL! 😂 Fun video for sure!...
Love the clay block video's! If you want speed use lighter bullets in the 45-70. For example the Hornady LeverEvolution in 250 gr monolithic bullets is running 2025 and the 325 Grain just over 2000 as well. The 405 grain your shooting are the usual standard for dangerous game in North America with the 45-70 for deer you can go lighter and get better ballistics. Don't really matter both of those clay blocks were dead at 100 with the ammo you chose. Great video
About 20 years ago I walked away from a hell of a deal on a 444 Marlin lever action, just because it had synthetic stocks instead of wood. And I was broke 😅. I've regretted it ever since.
45-70 for me, especially because I can get one of the new Ruger made marlins chambered for it. The 444 marlin is by no means a slouch and just as effective to a degree, but it's not as versatile as the 45-70 due to the variety of loads available. What's nice, you can get 45-70 loads heavy and slow, lighter and faster, and some that are loaded hot to push the heavier loads with some speed. To have the versatility of power levels range from that of a 243-300wm is quite a range depending on the task.
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Which one are you picking???
Marlin 444 👍😊
@@williampalin3438agreed.
Not sure about favorite, but the 444 clearly has the energy advantage here. If you really want to see a good deer catcher, load the 444 with a Swift A-Frame Revolver Bullet Cal. 44 in 280 or 300 grain. The Barnes XPB 200 grain is a real screamer, too. Be careful, though, as you may lose the entire shoulder meat with either bullet.
I would pick the 4570 whith modern loads
9:56 Bigger is better. Go with the 45-70.
I love both and I have both so just depends on what I feel like shooting that day. I turned 50 this year and I remember as a younger man my uncle always hunted with a 444. To a young person it was a cannon. I was always so impressed with that rifle. My uncle passed away a few years back and I asked my aunt what ever happened to that rifle. She said it was sitting in the safe and hadn’t been used for a few years because it was just too much for my uncle to shoot anymore. I asked if I could buy it and she took it out of the safe and gave it to me. It does have cash value but that rifle means more to me than bag full of money. One day it will be passed down to one of my sons.
444 for more than one reasons
I also have one handed down to me from my uncle. I used it for about a decade until MY nephew started using it. He got so attached to it, my dad bought him one so I could have mine to myself.
Awesome, awesome, awesome! My vote goes to the .444 MARLIN!
Paul Harrell loves the .444 marlin for deer.
.444 Marlin is a beast. Speed kills and that thing wallops.
If I wasn't one of those begging for this video I absolutely wanted to be. I own a Marlin (real JM Marlin) in .444. Because of that, I never could justify coughing up the cash for anything in 45-70 even though I got a hankerin for one occasionally. This video just proved to me there is no need for a 45-70 in my safe. I will say that 45-70 appeared to be more available during the last ammo crunch than .444. Further, .444 if it could be found, wasn't to be had for less than $4 per round!! Glad its back on the shelves at a fairly reasonable price. Finally, from what I could see in your video, it looked like the .444 smoked the 45-70. Thanks for the great content!!
it pays to be a reloader
Good video. Not much difference between them Thx
That 444 Marlin sure made short work of the clay block. Great video! Thanks!
Thanks for watching!
So did the 45-70 though. Just in its own unique way. lol
Most 45-70 factory loads are loaded to be safe in older guns. Lots of room to step it up. Still, it won't kill a bear any deader than the 444 Marlin. Thanks for the video.
I'll go with the 45-70, had a Marlin 1895 in 45-70 and loved it. A buddy had a marlin in 444 and it was a great gun also.
I bought a new Marlin .444 in 1964 when they first came out. I was 20 years old back then. I still have my reloading dies for it. I had to sell it 15 years later to pay some bill as young people with two children usually do. I miss that Marlin and if Ruger make this Marlin again I'll buy another one. In later years I owned a Ruger #3 carbine in 45-70 cal. It was brutal to fire because it was a lightweight rifle. A falling block single shot with a straight stock. I enjoyed my Marlin much more. It shot further and flatter than the #3. As a native Arizonan I shoot in the deserts, canyons and mountains.
First rifle i ever fired at 8 years old. Dad sat me down and said "just hold onto the rifle", opened my eyes after it fired, was looking at the sky. Lol good ole days.
I have two 45-70’s. Single shot and lever. 45-70’s are just cool fun!
Longer History for sure, which boost cool factor!!
I have several of each in Marlin rifles and couple of scouts in each caliber thanks to your videos on both. I’m glad to see a current rifle chambered in 444 , that should help to keep the caliber alive
Good video
Thanks
I love my 444 marlin with leverevolutions.
Yes, that is currently the best loading for the caliber! I think they could do some hardcast loadings though and then its a dangerous game round!!
@@KevinBlankenship-p6m Grizzly munitions and Underwood Ammo both make hardcasts for the 444 actually. Unfortunately the Grizzly rounds (I haven't tried Underwood's loadout) don't work well out of my dad's old Marlin. I think in the newer guns they would work great though. I hope Ruger will make a good 444 soon.
I owned a Marlin .444 lever gun when they were in North Haven CT when Bill Ruger Sr was still alive before they ended up being owned by Ruger ... Accurate but those rounds were expensive. Kudos to TC for being smart and offering this caliber in their platform.
I have both of those rifles and like them both. I have an email from CVA that says that the 45-70 scout will handle loads rated for Marlin 1895 rifles. These loads are hotter than regular factory loads, which are loaded light for older guns. My normal 45-70 load flings a 300 grain bullet at around 2100 fps. It kicks some, but the Scouts muzzle brake helps tame the recoil.
I’ve got a 444 handi rifle. It’s like a high speed cannon ball through a whitetail. They don’t usually go past spitting distance. I hope to see a Ruglin 444 available soon!
Both cartridges are beasts killers! I used to own a Winchester model 94 chambered for the 444! It was accurate and turned "dinosaurs" into mince meat!
I have the Winchester Model 94 Big Bore with angle eject in T4. The Winchester Big Bore can handle up to 10% more chamber pressure than the Marlins because of the beefed up receiver. The Hornady Superformance is the top load for me. I am not a fan of the Hornady FTX Leverevolution rounds because of the bullet separation but I would use them in a pinch. I reload the T4 using the Sierra 240 gr. Sportsman which is a revolver cartridge but is still tough enough for game up to elk. I load 300 gr. Hornady for my .45-70 at 2000 fps at the muzzle. I can get more velocity using the H 4198 or IMR 4198 but a hunter really doesn't need that much power for normal hunting except maybe big bears. But then, I'd be loading 350 RN's for big bears at 2000 fps. I'm a big bore lover and have no rifles less the .308 caliber. Anything less doesn't show on my radar.
Used the .45-70 on multiple hunts. Deer, hogs, moose. Heaviest rounds i used was the 500 grain hard cast for moose. Used 300-325 gain ammo for everything else.
@@shawnsparkman7916: I’d bet you didn’t have any problems dropping that moose did you. I have a Henry 45-70 side gate and love it, it’s not a distance rifle but it would derail a train at 200 yards.
@@anthonyjaparks all about shot placement. I tended to go right behind the shoulder, but twice I hit the neck snapping the spine.
@@shawnsparkman7916: thatta drop’em every time. Can’t go very far with your spine shot in half. He was turned into a quadriplegic instantly.
That's why I handload my 45-70. 300gr Hornady Interlock at 2380 should do the trick!
I think they are both capable awesome cartridges👍
444 MARLIN WINS BUT IM STILL A 45-70 GUY, KEEP UP THE AWESOME WORK WTW
Nice to see you back to old school clay blocks. Reload some 45-70 and get that fps up. You and me are on the same page on the 405 gr. bullets...
I've had a Marlin lever gun in .444 for 42 years and I bought a CVA Scout in the same caliber in September. I'm very impressed with the accuracy of the CVA. I'm on my 3rd 45-70 I just picked up a Browning 1885 45-70 and before that I had a Ruger No.1 and a Marlin 1895 in 45-70.
Your 444 Marlin brass can be used to make brass .410 shells. They last forever for reloading 410
So can you shoot 410 out of a 444?
@@fredeschen3783 oh! Not sure but if you let me use your 410 I’ll try it
@itsjustjoe3790
He's not saying to shoot a .444 Marlin out of a 4.10 shotgun.
He is saying .444 brass can be used for handload 4.10 shot shells. You have to use a shot card over the shot, because you can't crimp it like a plastic shotgun hull.
@@brianschumaker5912 thanks! I finally got the answer. That would be a nice hunting setup. Keep a few of those in your pocket for grouse. I used a 44 lever action and some 44 shot shells with that idea but it seemed like it was a little weak for both big game and grouse.
@@fredeschen3783you would shoot .444 brass loaded with shot out of a shotgun. Shooting shot shells out of a rifled bore gives a pattern like a doughnut.
My family owned a sporting goods store for about 25 years. One day a distant cousin came in and wanted to buy a .444 marlin in SS.444. We tried to get him to take a 45-70 guide gun which was brand new just released at the time but his heart was set even though i didnt understand why. That is untill the gun came in and we took it outside to shoot it. If you can handle the recoil these things are beasts with out of the box ammo no handloading needed like the 45-70. It was Hugely powferful medicine stick. Lol. The cousin ended up taking quite a few deer with that rifle and was really proud of it and its being such an unusual choice in our area.
Factory 45/70 loads in the same weight class easily match the 444. They're so similar it's ridiculous
I hit a doe in the neck, just in front of the shoulders, and there were two missing vertebrae. I love my 444.
Excited for more 444 marlin content! Hopefully your able to find some of the 265gr hornaday superformance flat points!
The superformance 265 flex tip shoot flatter
@@davidlindler3534 Yes but I have the old microgroove Marlin that doesn't stabilize the longer flex tips. So very curious on the performance of the flat points I stockpiled up on
Illinois recently allowed single shot rifles in .444 and .45-70 for deer hunting. This is great info for us Illinois folks.
I’m surprised that Illinois allows anybody to have a gun!
Reading the comments, there is a lot of love for the trip4. I have both the trip4 and the .45-70 and love them both. The advantage the .45-70 has over the 444 is the different bullet weights usable in the .45-70, from 250 to 600 grains. The ultimate 444 load is the Hornady Superformance 265 grain. It generates over 3400 ft.lbs of muzzle energy. I reload the .45-70 because the factory ammo is intentionally powered down for the old Springfield Trap Door models still in use. I try to load a high for caliber velocity of over 2100 fps for the .45-70 with over 3400 ft.lbs. of energy at the muzzle. Both rifles will dispatch anything in North America and even Africa. Thank you for the side-by-side comparison.
The new Rossi r95 444 Marlin and 45-70 are very nice smooth cycling rifles.
Speed makes the difference
Zoom zoom
Don't have a 444 Marlin, but I can attest to the 45-70 handloaded with a 350 grain Swift A Frame bullet. It absolutely flattened a big 8 point I shot several years ago. It was a quartering shot last rib left side, and came to rest in the hide after smashing the right shoulder. Bullet retained 97% weight and mushroomed nicely.
I think either round would work great for deer, black bear, or hogs, but I think the 45-70 has the edge for bullet weight availability. Both are thumpers for sure.
.444 marlin😮
The 444 Marlin is my deer rifle for life , however I bought my son a Marlin 45-70 and it's a BEAST ! Love them both .
Can’t go wrong with either. I’ve owned both, still have the 45-70. Another almost obsolete cartridge is the 375 Win. I had a model 94 and a contender barrel in 375. Great round and preferred over 45-70. Love the big bores.
Can't wait for this one.
I just bought the same 444 marlin. Cva scout did the sight in today very impressive before seeing this video I think with the extra velocity that 444 definitely did more to the clay
The good old clay block test I love them videos, and I'll say atleast your comparing apples to apples I love the vids
Great comparison. Loved it.
.45 - 70 is a heckuva cartridge.
You haven't got the full potential of the 4570 unless you hand load for it
Or you get the +p Buffalo Bore rounds.
@@Gioeli76Check out the Garret loads.
Buffalo bore or grizzly or underwood
Underwood +P 45-70 325 gr 2275 fps with 3734 foot pounds
Same to be said for the 444.
Dang, Brother Adam, good to see you shooting clay again! And I'll take either...I reload.
I Love these videos! These are the ones that got me to the channel! Clay blocks, water jugs, paper plates, cinder block walls, and your quick hundred yard site-ins! I think out of those two, I would go with the good old 45-70!🇺🇲✝️🇺🇲
Jonah 2:7
7 When my soul fainted within me I remembered the LORD: and my prayer came in unto thee, into thine holy temple.
I choose 45-70 simply because I have an older Marlin 1895, and a TC Encore pistol in it. The Marlin, with the 325gr LeverEvolution ammo is an absolute deer hammer.
I'm a fan and have used the 45-70. When I was in my early teens I had a unlimited source of 45-70s. 444 I've heard many swear by them but I've never had one. 45-70 was used to bust engine blocks at road ambushes. Id take the marlin 45-70
That was awesome !!
Splat!!!
If you’re talking about factory ammo only the 444 Marlin. But if you hand load for them then the 45-70 hands down. That 444 Marlin was a bit more devastating on the clay. Just think of the 444 Marlin as a stretched 44 magnum and that 240 bullet is pretty awesome!
While I have both cartridges in guns, my preferred woods gun is the 444 Marlin with a 1-4 Nikon safari grade scope with a number for German reticle. I hand loaded 265 grain flat point interlocks over REL-7 or 4198. Usually getting around 2202 to 2250 ft./s. That round works extremely well for me. Out of my P model lever gun it Right through the engine out the other side. LMAO.
I don't own either caliber... both are impressive. The ballistics from the 444, with the velocity, terminal energy would be my pick... unless I could choose a less violent caliber. I don't like to field dress my game in one shot. Thanks
444 Marlin won the 45.70 was awesome it self.
Owned both, preferred the JM Marlin I bought in 68. It is a one shot killer for larger game, mostly I went after Moose, Griz and black bear. 45-70 has a trajectory like a rainbow, 444 a little better but both excellent up to 200 yards.
Try the Hornady leverevolution in 325gr for the 45-70! I think it is the blend you are looking for
Playing catch up cause I've been away for 4 days.
Both are full power houses. Its a super hard pick though.
45-70 Tried and true over the years from 250-500 grain, and a lot of factory offerings. Even more so if you handload. Has taken a lot of different game over the years and has proven itself around the world. 444 Marlin is the "new" kid on the block with loadings from the 230-350 range, and again even more if you handload.
Both are extremely reliable energy wise, initially depending on the loading the 45-70 carries more energy at the start but at 300 yards are basically identical.
Both have the trajectory of a a underhand throw. 444 being the "flatter" of the two.
...My pick is going to be 45-70 because it has more factory loadings and you can pick more offerings based on what your rifle likes. You can walk into almost any dealer and find 45-70 on the shelf.
Both are murder on the shoulder though if 444 Marlin is anything like 45-70.
Awesome video love the clay
I gotta go with the.444 just because of the velocity.
As to the 45-70 , I agree with you about the bullet weight.
It’s like the 1911 , it was designed to throw a 230gr bullet out of a 5” barrel at 850-950 fps.
Going with a shorter barrel and a lighter bullet takes away from the energy transferred into the target . It’s the energy dump that makes the 230gr 45ACP out of a 5” so effective.
I own a 444 Marlin and it is a real powerhouse.
CVA should really make the Scout in 500 and 460 S&W since the only game in town is Big Horn Armory unless you can find a used TC at a reasonable price.
You just convinced me to buy a 444 Marlin 🤠
You won't be disappointed.
I have a Contender with barrels in both 444 and 45-70. Really like them both, but have gotten less drop out if the 444 at 300 and 400 yard shots. Have taken a bison, with the 45-70 at 125 and it preformed perfect.
Not much in it, but I'd have to give it to the .444. Love them both though, thanks Who Tee!
Like them both, probably go with the 45-70 because I own one plus its history. My son has a 444 and with Hornady Superformance I was surprised it had more energy than my 325’s from the same manufacturer. Thanks for the video!
Both work great for anything in North America and most of Africa.
Thanks for the video. On most high-power rifles larger clay blocks would show more detail, specifically in the differences between cartridges.
Both are great ctgs for big game !
From my hunting experience all my life I would choose the 444 Marlin !
444 is essentially a 44 magnum on steroids. I just wish there were more ammo options for it.
Yep, it is not being utilized enough in choices of loading's!!
Hand load
Hornday makes 265 gr and u can handload up to 300gr
Actually based on the .30-06 case.
When I owned a Marlin lever gun back in the 1980s, I only used factory ammo. I was a hand-loader at the time but never did load for the .444.
When I gave up hunting, I gave the Marlin to my son-in-law. A couple of weeks later, my daughter and son-in-law split up. Man, I wish that I
had kept the Marlin. That was a really good rifle. Just don't make the mistake of buying or loading .444 ammo with .44 mag pistol bullets.
That 265 grain bullet probably has a thicker / tougher jacket to stand up to the 2300-2400 fps velocity of the .444. While I owned that rifle,
I always thought of it as the .44 Super Mag, which in my mind was what it was.
I have both. The 444 is more versatile than the 45-70.
The deer that I shot with a handloaded Remington 405 gr. JACKETED SP.... about 50 yards.
It was a fairly hot load at 1618 fps @ muzzle.
It drilled a small finger sized hole straight thru the deer...shoulder to shoulder... but no bones hit.
The deer ran 30 yards and dropped. Only a fist full of lung debrie was at the spot the deer was hit. Small blood trail.
The 300 gr. HSP bullet is better than the 405 SP.
I saw a Remington 300 gr bullet penetrate almost length wise in a deer, blowing the hell out of a deer.... tore it up a lot! Gut shot.
A real mess!
It ran 300 to 400 yards, when we found it dead near a stream. Poor thing! But the bullet did a great job, but because of the gut shot... the deer ran far.
The 444 with a good bullet, works as well if not better.
I load mine down to 44 magnum performance with the 240 grain bullet. It works well. No over kill!
Loaded it hotter with a heavier bullet, then you can also use it for Big Stuff.
At an Indiana gun show around 2005, I had a chance to buy a JM Marlin .45-70 guide gun & about 200 rounds for $600… I’m still kicking myself. 😂
On the slow mo it looks like the 444 had just a bit more explosive result on the clay. I handload for a Springfield trapdoor so now I may actually get a CVA in .45-70 to wring out more ballistics out of that round.
It is always dangerous on my bank account watching your videos! 😂
The 45-70 was made for a 500 bullet propelled by 70 grains of black powder. The military then made a lighter carbine load with 405 grain bullet and a lower charge of black powder. The carbine loads kick a lot less.
444 marlin for sure. Thanks for the nice review.
Thanks for watching!
Great Video. You shocked me when you pulled out the CVAs instead of levers. What great options for shooting these classic loads. I own a 444 JM Marlin. Unfortunately, Michigan straight wall rules won't allow it because the case is too long😔.
Can't afford the levers these days. They are ridiculously expensive
444 is NASTY!!.. Wow.. impressive.
Great video, I have carried both in Wyoming cowboying, carried them for grizz. Personally prefer 45/70. Better balnce rifle bigger bullet. Thank you
Dad called the .444 a brush gun. We were hunting one year and he tried to shoot a running buck. The buck ran behind a tree that was about 4-6 inches in diameter right when dad pulled the trigger and that tree saved that deers life 😂😂😂 it failed the tree but the deer kept goin. I believe we were using Hornady bullets at the time
In the 1950's, Elmer Keith performed a series of bullet penetration tests, using shredded rubber tires to simulate bear muscle. The only rifle caliber of many he tested that completely penetrated the box of 'muscle' was the .45-70. Energy, 1/2mv^2, is very important, and gives the .444 an advantage over the .45-70. But equally important is momentum, mv, which represents penetration, and here the .45-70 has the advantage, which is why Keith saw the results that he did. Both are good choices, but I prefer the .45-70 since it can be loaded (for the Scout only) to levels approaching performance of the .458 Winchester Magnum. Note that in one of the Jurassic Park films, a .45-70 was used to take down a T-Rex. Of course, if I had my druthers, I'd prefer a .45-90. In a museum I once saw a Winchester 1886 in .50-110 and I'd like that even more.
I like both and I think that a " how many paperplate" test would be much more impressive to show the differece. Thanks
When I still had my model 95 Marlin in .45-70, I was given some hand loads that clocked the 405 grain slug at 2000 ft/sed. It kicked like a mule bit I always was able to get my buck even in the thickest slick leaf brush. I called it a poor man's elephant gun
I hunt Moose with a single shot 444 Marlin . Never felt under guned . Hunt Bear with a Marlin Lever 444 , just in case . Also have a nice stainless single shot in 45-70. Prefer the 444 Marlin . ALWAYS use the 265 gr Lever Evilution in 444 ,or the 365 gr in 45-70. Ontario Canada.
I got a BFR in 444 as a side/back up for elk hunt. Factory ammo is wicked violent. I lift a lot of weights but damn that has my wrist getting messed up. No one should get the revolver one unless they hand load frankly. 265 goin 2,000 fps. Barnes 225 XPB legitimately busts old milk jug waters like nothing I have ever seen before. 50 ft diameter spray of water and flings the bottle parts 25ft to either side
BRAVO 👏👏👏 You've been speaking my language, last few episodes. I've had a.444 since 1972. Recently bought a.45/70. My mod.70- .264 mag, favorite, and Ruger 77- .220 swift.. What's next?
. How about.... .300 swm vs 7mm mag?
I hsve had the pleasure of sending both of those rounds down range from two contenders that a friend had. The 444Marlin has my vote. Another friend took a deer with a 444 and he said he could not believe the destruction that round created.
I own Both---Never hunted with either---but will try this year----for bear---probably take the 45/70 one day and the 444 Marlin the next. They both shoot great!
I've shot a Marlin 444 lever action(336 model I think). Impressive in that gun!
I already have marlin 1895 26” barrel love it and I will keep it
I've always wanted a 444 marlin
i am very pleased with the results of the 300 gr hp Federal black and blue box ammo out of my 1895G Marlin in 45-70 GOV. on deer. I have yet to have a whitetail run more than ten yards after impact.
Deer, either one. Bigger stuff 45-70 all day.
I would go with the 444 myself- but both will do the job nicely
😂 two weeks late 🇨🇦 I am but still enjoying the heck out of your channel 😂👍👍👍
Always appreciate you watching!
I've hunted the with a 444 Marlin for over 35 years. I take nothing away from the 45 70 but with the versatility in ammo today and down range capability considered, I opt for the 444.
Looks great xden
I think you need 100 lb blocks of clay to adequately evaluate
Yeah at least 50 lbs, that would maybe hold together and show the cavity they leave!!
I was going to say "The nice thing about using clay blocks is you can beat them back into shape and reuse them". Looks like I was mistaken, there was nothing left of those blocks to reuse! LOL! 😂 Fun video for sure!...
FWIW, Elmer Keith LOVED the .45-70 and even had a revolver chambered for it.
That was fun 😁!
Love the clay block video's! If you want speed use lighter bullets in the 45-70. For example the Hornady LeverEvolution in 250 gr monolithic bullets is running 2025 and the 325 Grain just over 2000 as well. The 405 grain your shooting are the usual standard for dangerous game in North America with the 45-70 for deer you can go lighter and get better ballistics. Don't really matter both of those clay blocks were dead at 100 with the ammo you chose. Great video
Both very impressive. Probably 444 because of the speed. But would not turn down the 45/70!
About 20 years ago I walked away from a hell of a deal on a 444 Marlin lever action, just because it had synthetic stocks instead of wood. And I was broke 😅. I've regretted it ever since.
I would go with 444 marlin.i say that because I've owned one for years and love it
45-70 for me, especially because I can get one of the new Ruger made marlins chambered for it. The 444 marlin is by no means a slouch and just as effective to a degree, but it's not as versatile as the 45-70 due to the variety of loads available. What's nice, you can get 45-70 loads heavy and slow, lighter and faster, and some that are loaded hot to push the heavier loads with some speed. To have the versatility of power levels range from that of a 243-300wm is quite a range depending on the task.