This type of knowledge should be mandatory in piano education, so everybody learn it. And all teachers became aware it. I had a teacher that did not even know that rotation was a basic movement in piano playing. He was not aware of it. I experienced pain, and just two days after beginning with rotational movements in my arm my playing became much more fluid, and less painful.
Ooohhh, I like her!! What a treat it is to watch her teach! I just started teaching children group piano and they’re on these roll up pianos that are not great, but it’s what I’ve been given as materials. I really want to help them improve their technique and get used to playing healthily. I’ll be studying dear Ms. Taubman’s technique for my students sake and my own!
Indeed, instructors of her caliber are very rare. I never had an instructor at this level. Although I was not a piano major I did take lessons at a conservatory from the chair of the piano performance department. It is unlikely you will find someone as an instructor that is as gifted as she was. Dorothy was a true genius.
I spent an entire semester on it 40 years ago and what i hesrd sounded like nothing i remembered till the Fmajor recap sounded. Ive got to go look at the score: it was never this brilliant and virtuosic to me and i played it all short staccato notes. So much i still don't know.
I have the exact same problem as Robert shannon the guy talking at 9:00 i wish he would reveal what she told me to correct his movement and not experience pain anymore, could someone enlighten me ?
The pain he refers to is in the ulnar nerve which can become irritated by habitual ulnar deviation (the hand is twisted outwards). Taubman technique is very good at solving this problem by realigning the hand so that the 5th finger is in a straight line from the elbow with no kink at the wrist (this is why she says no 4th finger on black notes - which is extremely limiting but can avoid (not solve) specific problems,) and relaxing any tension in the forearm by insisting on rotation only to play every note. Taubman technique is a bit like an elimination diet - it's an extreme elimination of movement and forced relaxation of certain parts of the arm and hand which will fix certain problems but in the end risks limiting the technique of the player.
I don´ t thnk there should be any pain involved in doing anything, and above all in music and piano playing... and I am glad to hear this wonderful lady shared this opinion, as all great musicians and teachers I´ve met do.
Whaaaaat. I nevef heard this before. Tobias Matthay snd others have good ideas aboutscale fingering and blackkey before and after in each hsnd.F fingers! but I say the wrist prepares fingers better than any finger science!
I have an almost morbid fascination with mechanical aspects of playing and this has really peaked my interest! I wish there was an instructor in northern indiana some place so i could get this kind of specific and detailed help with my playing.
I think she is referring primarily to twisting at the wrist which will often happen when stretching the hand to use 4th finger on black key, especially on octaves, and especially in the middle registers of the piano, and is warning not to do that, and to use 5th finger instead, which will reduce twisting. Many pianists try to use 4th finger no matter what, even if it twists the hand at the wrist. She is simply saying you don't have to do that since the 5th finger is available. So why not use it. Of course, if you have a large hand, and can use the 4th without twisting, go ahead.
I believe as she did, that pain is a sign of bad playing. Pain is a sure sign that the approach used does not meet the musical and technical goals desired. She is absolutely right about using the forth finger on the black keys - it is a source of injury.
The first thing you write is correct, that pain is a sign of bad playing. The second part is absurd, frankly. You cannot play half of Chopin without a wrist that is able to move in all directions; Octaves etude is the most obvious example. There is an infinite number of ways to play the piano well; there is no one-size-fits-all approach.
@@johnmilbauer7371 I had the same feelings as you did before starting to train with a taubman teacher. I was so totally wrong. It is really something you should try before judging.😊
@@johnmilbauer7371 Taubman and Taubman teachers all admit that players with rather larger hands can play 1-4 octaves without physiological problems, but it is rarely necessary and is unhealthy for smaller hands.
For gmee123: I don't know of qualified Taubman people in Indiana, but if you can get to Cleveland every so often, there is one highly qualified teacher at one of the universities, and Sheila Paige, one of the very finest, teaches there several times a year.
I wish there were a Dorothy Taubman for the harp. :-( I've just about resigned myself to having to work out the application of forearm rotation on that instrument for myself.
Hi Janis: you might try getting in touch with the Golandsky Institute (www.golandskyinstitute.org/teachers/) They work with instrumentalists of all kinds utilizing Taubman's ideas and have been quite successful applying her approach to other instruments.
I'd very much like to, but I'm not a conservatory kid or a professional. I'm a lifelong adult amateur pianist with some childhood training who has begun to play harp and has discovered that everything you AREN'T supposed to do on the piano you are instructed to do on the harp. And ... well, it hurts. And it worries me that so many harpists seem to be injured or have had surgeries on their hands and shoulders, and that I was an autodidact for two years without pain, but now that I'm taking more rigorous classical lessons, suddenly my hands hurt. The whole technique on the instrument appears to be designed specifically to damage the hands. :-( Being trained as a physicist, I'm willing to just start from first principles (forearm rotation) on my own, and while it would be nice to have some guidance, I am nowhere NEAR the level of virtuosity that would qualify me to talk to the Golandsky Institute.
I'm not sure your virtuosity matters here--you're hurting and you need help. I don't know anything about the technique of playing the harp. the question seems to me to be: is there a way to play the harp that doesn't injure the body. Golandsky's people are very good at analyzing movement. Maybe they won't be able to help you--but I'd say its worth a try. I don't know how much of Choreography you've watched, but there is a segment, I think in Part 3, with a flutist. Dorothy tells the camera how she'd never worked with a flutist before, but was able to help figure out the movements. That's what I'd hope for in your case.
Check in on Maria Saboya from Paris. She is perhaps the only great great teacher that remains in this field of expertise that i've ever known. Is there someone equal to Dorothy and Maria in the America?
Thank you very much for your acknoledgement and recognition ! I am happy to be able to help young pianists who love music and piano with all their heart and who endeavor to become true musicians. Maria Saboya
+Compte Monsuor I don't know whether you are still wondering, but I know of two very experienced Taubman instructors in USA. Robert Durso is in Philadelphia, PA, and Mary Moran is in Schenectady, NY. Both are co-founders of the Golandsky Institute for teaching the Taubman Approach. Ms. Moran has been involved with Taubman Approach since the late '70s and Mr. Durso since the early '80s.
I can confirmed the fact Maria is so helpful, she's my teacher I start with her one month ago and it's a litteral change of perspective, I totally relearn and it's a revolution for me ! Excellent pedagogist for shure
Can someone explain what she means by dont use the 4th finger on black key? does she mean dont use it at all or in some special cases? for example by twisting or the thumb after the 4th? i reapted it many times but i didnt get, so some explanations in more detail would be great ;) thanks allot!
zirbsssss I am interested in knowing the answer to this. I think she's saying if you are playing 2 black keys, do not use the 1-4, use the 1-5 instead. The 1-4 causes ulnar deviation I believe (aka "twisting").
Sorry lots of jazzers are injured too. Apparently the action on electric pianos actually makes injury more likely than on an acoustic, It's not "out there" as much in the rock/pop/jazz fields as classical but anyone who has spent time around professional musicians knows this problems knows no genre boundaries.
I found nothing wrong with the sound when I tried it, and I spot checked throughout the 15 minutes of Part 1. Is it possible that your own sound settings are not set properly, or your volume is set to zero?
This technique kills the traditional culture and colours in classical music. Endurance is necessary and just like a working out, people that get injured do get injured because they do not build up their endurance, not because the piano technique that was built over centuries and centuries to achieve certain kind of sound, colour, phrase, pulse and character that was approved and developed by Czerny Beethoven Liszt Chopin were wrong. They did those movements because it was necessary for achieveing the right colour and sense.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 89 | คู่เอก "ยอดไอคิว vs คิริลล์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Z3vYkHJ_5Ig/mqdefault.jpg)
RIP Dorothy Taubman... aged 95. What a great career she had.
This type of knowledge should be mandatory in piano education, so everybody learn it. And all teachers became aware it. I had a teacher that did not even know that rotation was a basic movement in piano playing. He was not aware of it. I experienced pain, and just two days after beginning with rotational movements in my arm my playing became much more fluid, and less painful.
Loved every moment of five years as her pupil- loved her.
In my opinion Dorothy is one of the most brilliant piano technique instructors who has ever lived. I wish I had gotten to take lessons from her.
Ooohhh, I like her!! What a treat it is to watch her teach!
I just started teaching children group piano and they’re on these roll up pianos that are not great, but it’s what I’ve been given as materials. I really want to help them improve their technique and get used to playing healthily.
I’ll be studying dear Ms. Taubman’s technique for my students sake and my own!
I would have loved to have her as my teacher.
A life changing and loving musical force- thank you for this!
RIP Dorothy.
Indeed, instructors of her caliber are very rare. I never had an instructor at this level. Although I was not a piano major I did take lessons at a conservatory from the chair of the piano performance department. It is unlikely you will find someone as an instructor that is as gifted as she was. Dorothy was a true genius.
That Haydn piano sonata fragment from 1:00 to 1:27 sounds simply SUBLIME!
Glad to know it's by Haydn. Can you tell me which number or key?
@@minhnguyen1908 Sonata in F major, H. XVI:23.
Thanks for the infos. It will now be in my " must learn" list
I spent an entire semester on it 40 years ago and what i hesrd sounded like nothing i remembered till the Fmajor recap sounded. Ive got to go look at the score: it was never this brilliant and virtuosic to me and i played it all short staccato notes. So much i still don't know.
I have the exact same problem as Robert shannon the guy talking at 9:00 i wish he would reveal what she told me to correct his movement and not experience pain anymore, could someone enlighten me ?
The pain he refers to is in the ulnar nerve which can become irritated by habitual ulnar deviation (the hand is twisted outwards). Taubman technique is very good at solving this problem by realigning the hand so that the 5th finger is in a straight line from the elbow with no kink at the wrist (this is why she says no 4th finger on black notes - which is extremely limiting but can avoid (not solve) specific problems,) and relaxing any tension in the forearm by insisting on rotation only to play every note. Taubman technique is a bit like an elimination diet - it's an extreme elimination of movement and forced relaxation of certain parts of the arm and hand which will fix certain problems but in the end risks limiting the technique of the player.
I don´ t thnk there should be any pain involved in doing anything, and above all in music and piano playing... and I am glad to hear this wonderful lady shared this opinion, as all great musicians and teachers I´ve met do.
Thank you for making such a beautiful tribute to Dorothy Taubman!
She was really a genius!
Sondra Tammam
Co-Director Taubman Seminars/Taubman Festival
This woman is so wonderful
There is hope!!!! Thanks
this is awesome i need to learn more about this.
Napoleon Dynamite has fantastic hand skills.
As a rule never the fourth on the black key!❤
Whaaaaat. I nevef heard this before. Tobias Matthay snd others have good ideas aboutscale fingering and blackkey before and after in each hsnd.F fingers! but I say the wrist prepares fingers better than any finger science!
was she wearing her glasses upside-down in the beginning?
Luka Puka that was the style back in the day. i won't be surprise if it comes back in style. fashion does repeat itself.
very true
People looked hideous back then. WTH were they thinking?
@@lightball1414 People look even more hideous in 2023...
I have an almost morbid fascination with mechanical aspects of playing and this has really peaked my interest! I wish there was an instructor in northern indiana some place so i could get this kind of specific and detailed help with my playing.
Michael, I did not know you could play the piano!!! Abracao verde e amarelo!!!
Love!! Maze (Diana`s mother)
I think she is referring primarily to twisting at the wrist which will often happen when stretching the hand to use 4th finger on black key, especially on octaves, and especially in the middle registers of the piano, and is warning not to do that, and to use 5th finger instead, which will reduce twisting. Many pianists try to use 4th finger no matter what, even if it twists the hand at the wrist. She is simply saying you don't have to do that since the 5th finger is available. So why not use it. Of course, if you have a large hand, and can use the 4th without twisting, go ahead.
this bit didn't make sense to me, but your explaining it made it make more sense :)
I believe as she did, that pain is a sign of bad playing. Pain is a sure sign that the approach used does not meet the musical and technical goals desired. She is absolutely right about using the forth finger on the black keys - it is a source of injury.
The first thing you write is correct, that pain is a sign of bad playing. The second part is absurd, frankly. You cannot play half of Chopin without a wrist that is able to move in all directions; Octaves etude is the most obvious example. There is an infinite number of ways to play the piano well; there is no one-size-fits-all approach.
@@johnmilbauer7371 I had the same feelings as you did before starting to train with a taubman teacher. I was so totally wrong. It is really something you should try before judging.😊
@@johnmilbauer7371 Taubman and Taubman teachers all admit that players with rather larger hands can play 1-4 octaves without physiological problems, but it is rarely necessary and is unhealthy for smaller hands.
She was a excellent teacher, very detail!!!
Aula imperdivel excelente!
So good teacher !!!
What are the names of the piano students featured in this video'?
Por favor traducción al español para que las personas de habla hispana tengamos acceso a este conocimiento, gracias
Спасибо
Musicians are crazy
Haha. True!
For gmee123: I don't know of qualified Taubman people in Indiana, but if you can get to Cleveland every so often, there is one highly qualified teacher at one of the universities, and Sheila Paige, one of the very finest, teaches there several times a year.
I wish there were a Dorothy Taubman for the harp. :-( I've just about resigned myself to having to work out the application of forearm rotation on that instrument for myself.
Hi Janis: you might try getting in touch with the Golandsky Institute (www.golandskyinstitute.org/teachers/) They work with instrumentalists of all kinds utilizing Taubman's ideas and have been quite successful applying her approach to other instruments.
I'd very much like to, but I'm not a conservatory kid or a professional. I'm a lifelong adult amateur pianist with some childhood training who has begun to play harp and has discovered that everything you AREN'T supposed to do on the piano you are instructed to do on the harp. And ... well, it hurts.
And it worries me that so many harpists seem to be injured or have had surgeries on their hands and shoulders, and that I was an autodidact for two years without pain, but now that I'm taking more rigorous classical lessons, suddenly my hands hurt. The whole technique on the instrument appears to be designed specifically to damage the hands. :-(
Being trained as a physicist, I'm willing to just start from first principles (forearm rotation) on my own, and while it would be nice to have some guidance, I am nowhere NEAR the level of virtuosity that would qualify me to talk to the Golandsky Institute.
I'm not sure your virtuosity matters here--you're hurting and you need help. I don't know anything about the technique of playing the harp. the question seems to me to be: is there a way to play the harp that doesn't injure the body. Golandsky's people are very good at analyzing movement. Maybe they won't be able to help you--but I'd say its worth a try. I don't know how much of Choreography you've watched, but there is a segment, I think in Part 3, with a flutist. Dorothy tells the camera how she'd never worked with a flutist before, but was able to help figure out the movements. That's what I'd hope for in your case.
Does anyone know whose and what piece was playing at track 0.59 or 1:00?
Hayden piano sonata 23 I guess
Check in on Maria Saboya from Paris. She is perhaps the only great great teacher that remains in this field of expertise that i've ever known.
Is there someone equal to Dorothy and Maria in the America?
Thank you very much for your acknoledgement and recognition ! I am happy to be able to help young pianists who love music and piano with all their heart and who endeavor to become true musicians.
Maria Saboya
+Compte Monsuor I don't know whether you are still wondering, but I know of two very experienced Taubman instructors in USA. Robert Durso is in Philadelphia, PA, and Mary Moran is in Schenectady, NY. Both are co-founders of the Golandsky Institute for teaching the Taubman Approach. Ms. Moran has been involved with Taubman Approach since the late '70s and Mr. Durso since the early '80s.
I can confirmed the fact Maria is so helpful, she's my teacher I start with her one month ago and it's a litteral change of perspective, I totally relearn and it's a revolution for me ! Excellent pedagogist for shure
Which is correct 4th finger or 5th finger on black key?
both are
One of your speakers isn't working, divided between the 2 speakers for some reason.
Can someone explain what she means by dont use the 4th finger on black key? does she mean dont use it at all or in some special cases? for example by twisting or the thumb after the 4th? i reapted it many times but i didnt get, so some explanations in more detail would be great ;) thanks allot!
zirbsssss I am interested in knowing the answer to this.
I think she's saying if you are playing 2 black keys, do not use the 1-4, use the 1-5 instead.
The 1-4 causes ulnar deviation I believe (aka "twisting").
Interesting...
What piece is that at 8:33? Amazing video btw!
liszt hungarian rhapsody no. 6 if you’re still interested 9 years later
Sorry lots of jazzers are injured too. Apparently the action on electric pianos actually makes injury more likely than on an acoustic, It's not "out there" as much in the rock/pop/jazz fields as classical but anyone who has spent time around professional musicians knows this problems knows no genre boundaries.
Can anyone tell me to which work does the music around 1:00 belong??
Haydn Piano sonata
amat6690
Thanks! Do you know which one of them?
I've found it! It's his Piano Sonata no. 23 in F major. Thanks for your help.
can anyone tell me where that girl at 2:00 lives ?
Alloy Brendan lol
My hands are fine, it's my back that's killing me.
It can solve that as well!
why no piano sound??
Falcone!
1:28 Beethoven??
+Tore Bordal No, it is the Haydn Sonata in F major Hob. XVI 23 - I. Allegro moderato.
Hehe yeah, but didn't it remind you a lot of his 23rd sonata, first movement, one of the middle parts?
Why no sound?
I found nothing wrong with the sound when I tried it, and I spot checked throughout the 15 minutes of Part 1. Is it possible that your own sound settings are not set properly, or your volume is set to zero?
Liszt's 6th Hungarian Rhapsody. :)
This technique kills the traditional culture and colours in classical music. Endurance is necessary and just like a working out, people that get injured do get injured because they do not build up their endurance, not because the piano technique that was built over centuries and centuries to achieve certain kind of sound, colour, phrase, pulse and character that was approved and developed by Czerny Beethoven Liszt Chopin were wrong. They did those movements because it was necessary for achieveing the right colour and sense.
Just stop play, these people wouldn’t have a concert career anyway.
What a thoughtless comment.
You're a wonker.