Hi Francie and Max, I've had wall conector on our Airbnb for 4 years now outside of Austin. This ChargPoint deal is a pretty good deal! We've had no issues with guests or expensive electricity bills from EV drivers yet. Luckily, Texas electricity rates aren't too bad! We don't charge anyone extra for usage. We rather we have happy guests than nickle and dime them. Francie, I totally agree with you on cleaning fees. If I use our management company, I'm being charged the same crazy rate. Great podcast!
Even having level 1 charging available at an AirBNB is a great benefit. If there's an outlet near where your guests park, be sure to advertise that you have free level 1 charging.
Level 1 is hugely better than nothing. However, as I learned during a trip I did last summer, when you're staying at a place with only level 1, with no DC charging options nearby, you have to plan very carefully to make sure you don't run out of range. In my case, I ended up creating an Excel spreadsheet where I meticulously calculated exactly how much energy I'd be using each day and adding each night. Had Level 2 been available, I wouldn't have needed to do any of these range calculations; I'd be able to just drive plug in each night without thinking, just like I do at home with my home charger. For this particular trip, I really wanted a place with level 2, but my mom insisted on staying at a place with air conditioning, which all the places in the area that offered level 2 didn't have. So, for the sake of the air conditioner, I ended up having to make do with level 1. Had another host in the area offered the combination of both level 2 charging an air conditioning, I absolutely would have snapped that place up instead, even if were a higher price.
I'd say you are definitely a dedicated EV driver, doing those calculations for every trip to determine time to charge on level 1, something the average Joe is probably not willing to do.
The last time I stayed at a AirBnB, I used the exterior NEMA 5-20 outlet to add 25% SOC (at 12amps/120v rather than 16amp/120v) overnight via my EVSE (Tesla mobile charger). If I had brought my NEMA 5-20 adapter I could have added about 35% SOC overnight. On the same trip I charged in the underground parking of a hotel via a NEMA 5-15 outlet and again added nearly 25% SOC (2022 M3 RWD). I think that 120v NEMA 5-15/5-20 outlets are underrated as a convenient way to charge overnight.
Yes , just having some charging compared to no charging is underrated. And if you had an EV with a smaller battery, even charging at 1,4 kW would be a significant boost.
I love to see this partnership and hope it is fully implemented and becomes popular. Side note, this channel is really coming into its own with some great content.
My wife and I have a place in La Quinta, CA which we also use as an ABnB when we’re not there. We drive a MY21 ID4 Pro S which we road-trip back-n-forth to Seattle. We installed a 240V 60A circuit for our use and our tenants. We installed a quick-install z-clip wall mount adapter for use with our CP Home-Flex which we take back-n-forth. Currently we do not leave a L2 charger onsite due to concern about it being taken/removed by a Guest. We do however highlight the fact that we DO have the outlet available and indicate the plug-type (NEMA 14-50) on our Listing as well as an image of the outlet. I’m not completely savvy on all of the units that are available, but a unit with lock-protection for the attachment bolts would probably make ABnB Hosts more comfortable making an expensive EVSE available for Guests.
I have a travel 'charger' (EVSE) so even a 14-50 outlet within about 20 feet of the parking location would be an attractive AirB&B amenity if I were considering a road trip in my Mach-E.
This came up a week after installing a new Autel at our Killington Vt short term rental. Looked for one that didn’t require an app for the guest! Max is spot on - there are not many dcfc around Killington (many level 2’s), electrical work cost about $2k because the long run - not including the charger). We are not charging the guests for charging.
I live on the 12th floor of a condo tower group. My parking is under tower 1 and I live in tower 2. It is costing me $7,300 to get a level 2 charger installed. It is just distance to the box. It hurts, but will be amazing when done!
My wife and I enjoy traveling by car for long weekend trips in our 2021 Model Y LR. We do AirBnB and traditional BnB’s mostly and hotels when stopping for a night along our way to our final destination. In the case of AirBnB’s and BnB’s, if the owners themselves are not EV owners, they just don’t even know what a game charger this is to their renters with EVs. We will often talk with the owners of BnB’s over breakfast or some afternoon when we are hanging out, and nearly 100% of them have never even considered it. It isn’t even on their radar. The rare ones that have thought about it, are renting a 200 year old historical building that hasn’t had an electrical upgrade in 60 years and probably couldn’t support EVs without a major overhaul. Even L1 could be an issue. For AirBnB owners, the houses we rent are often much more modern so it could be done. But the story is the same with most of them… it just isn’t on their radar to even consider to add this to their properties and advertise they have it. We have yet to find one that has L2 charging, so we do browse the posted pictures of the properties paying close attention to the porch and driveway areas for access to a L1 charger. When staying for a long weekend or more, we make sure we arrive at 50%, which often means an extra 20-30 minutes to the trip to get there, but once there, a L1 charge is often more than enough to replenish what we use each day and then some even if we are out and about exploring. I encourage all EV owners to have this conversation (in person or via email) with every rental property owner. Most of them don’t offer it because they are just completely ignorant about the benefits it would provide for EV renters.
When road tripping with an EV to areas where chargers are scarce, it is enormous peace of mind to know that the charger at the place you are staying is dedicated just for you, and that you don't have to compete for use of it with other EV drivers who might arrive ahead of you, leaving you unable to charge. When staying at AirBnb, a charger is automatically a dedicated charger, since you have the entire property to yourself. When staying at a hotel, even if the chargers are working perfectly, it's still a first-come-first-serve crapshoot. Again, when staying in rural DCFC deserts, the importance of having a place to plug in overnight that is dedicated only to you cannot be overstated. I would even go so far as to say that, in many circumstances, it is even better to choose a place with only level 1 charging that you know is yours, rather than a hotel with level 2 charging you may or may not actually be able to get.
Thanks for the interesting information Francine & Max Here are the following things I see being a problem with this. Cabins sometimes in rural areas only have a 50 amp power box some have a 60 amp. problem number two rustic cabins may not have any power at them, which means they don’t even have the power to supply your electric. This is the main problem, though with electric vehicles in general I like to get out to areas they’re quite off the beaten path. This means if I decide to rent something, it may be Airbnb doesn’t offer rentals like this rentals are pretty rustic, pretty nice but pretty rustic sothis could lead to problems and this is one main reason why I feel electric vehicles do not have adequate range to cover some of this. Especially the things I see on the cyber truck scenario you’re towing something such as a toy hauler going to the backwoods in a rustic area. Let’s try the state of Wyoming, but I’m sure there’s other places such as Alaska and you get yourself a cabin. You may not even be able to get to that cabin towing item. Due to lack of infrastructure, but a lot of those backwoods places may not have power or may have very limited power. I’d like to know your thoughts on this both of you as well as others.
Great to see this initiative to get more EV charging at AirB&B rentals. I do wish the video would have provided info on the monthly cost that charge point will charge for their EVSE internet connection, and the ability of the host to collect fees through charge point. Can hosts set TOU rates?
IMO there is no need for hosts to spend the extra money to install a 60 Amp circuit to support 48 A charging. If I were a host I would install a 40 Amp circuit, lowering install cost. As a guest, 32 A charging will have my car fully charged every morning, so I will be very satisfied.
When you have two video feeds for a podcast, it wouldn't hurt to cut some at the sides, to fill the screen better. But what you talk about is what actually matters. I enjoy your podcasts !!!
We went on a trip recently and stayed at a airBnB. I used the EV filter. One place that said it had EV charging had a 120 VAC outlet. The other place we stayed at had a 240 V outlet. But she wasn't sure if it worked. So I decided to bring my voltmeter. Turns out it didn't work. The electrician must have screwed up. It was a new installation. Be sure to did a little when it says it has a charger. We plan to go back to that place.
Yep did the same on a recent trip we did. The Airbnb had EV charger listed on the app but it also said Tesla only. I ended up contacting the host and they confirmed it was just an outlet. I made them send pictures of the outlet and it was a NEMA 14-50 (they had no clue what type of outlet). It worked perfect for us as I just took my mobile charger which plugs into that outlet (Mache-E). I also let the host know they should more prominently mention it is an outlet only in their listing and to remove the Tesla mention.
I recently took a road trip to rural southern New Mexico and charging was ok but sparse. We spent three nights at a specific Airbnb in a tiny town specifically because it had an EV charger outlet (had to bring my mobile Ford EVSE). I felt bad actually charging there three nights in a row for at least 70 kWh each time. We ended up leaving 30$ as a tip on the table when we left as an appreciation of the outlet amenity which saved us not only bout 2-3 hours of time but also bout $140 in charging costs from the local DC fast chargers operated exclusively by Francis Energy at 60 cents per kWh.
I absolutely filter by EV charger when looking for Airbnb on roadtrips. It's a no brainer because you save an hour of time and also about $30-50 on electrons.
Thanks Francie and Max for an interesting discussion! I am looking forward to taking my 2023 Tesla Model Y on several road trips this year and most of them involve staying at Air BnB's. I have a 50 foot 10 gauge extension cord and am hoping to do level 1 charging with my mobile Tesla charger at these locations but wow, would level 2 charging at these locations make a big difference ! I hope there is host take up with this idea !
My home flex died within a few months of installation. Chargepoint support was utter shit. They acknowledged it was a warranty replacement right away, but I Had to wait about 8-10 weeks for them to issue the replacement unit. Had to DCFC during that time and they personally cost me about $400 because of their shit support so I will never buy them again and bash them on all public places. Buyer beware.
I also live in Boulder and recently installed a home EVSE in the 2023 tax year. They added a bunch of red tape to the federal tax credit. You have to live in either a rural or poor zip code. Boulder was excluded from both of those stipulations so I'm surprised Max claimed the tax credit. Unless it was pre 2023 that would not be legal.
Another item you have to factor in is the difficulty of running an Air B&b now. I had a townhouse in Branson, MO. It did ok for awhile but then became a pain when the city added taxes and restrictions on Air B&Bs. It wasn’t worth the hassle anymore so I sold it. Same thing happened to a friend who had a property in Breckenridge.
@@Bzzap83 it’s a shame because I loved going to Branson 2 or 3 times a year. For the first couple years the property made money thanks to Air B&B. But then new fees and laws were coming done which did not make it viable anymore. At least the property doubled in value before we sold it👍
I would argue that you don't necessarily need to install EVSE to support the maximum of what you vehicle can handle. I could upgrade to charge at 11 kW, but I don't need it, and I would get an increased peek load fee on my electricity bill. I charge at 2.7 kW and that's still more than I actually need. On the rare occasions I suddenly want more power, I can just go to a DC charger in the neighborhood and get as much as the battery can handle.
Agree, I think 11 kW is is fine if the additional cost compared to getting a slower charger is small. But it is definitely not worth spending thousands of dollars upgrading the electrical panel to be able to support it. The likelihood of a guest staying overnight actually noticing the difference between 6 kW vs. 11 kW is very small.
Hi Francie and Max,
I've had wall conector on our Airbnb for 4 years now outside of Austin. This ChargPoint deal is a pretty good deal! We've had no issues with guests or expensive electricity bills from EV drivers yet. Luckily, Texas electricity rates aren't too bad! We don't charge anyone extra for usage. We rather we have happy guests than nickle and dime them. Francie, I totally agree with you on cleaning fees. If I use our management company, I'm being charged the same crazy rate. Great podcast!
Even having level 1 charging available at an AirBNB is a great benefit. If there's an outlet near where your guests park, be sure to advertise that you have free level 1 charging.
Level 1 is hugely better than nothing. However, as I learned during a trip I did last summer, when you're staying at a place with only level 1, with no DC charging options nearby, you have to plan very carefully to make sure you don't run out of range. In my case, I ended up creating an Excel spreadsheet where I meticulously calculated exactly how much energy I'd be using each day and adding each night. Had Level 2 been available, I wouldn't have needed to do any of these range calculations; I'd be able to just drive plug in each night without thinking, just like I do at home with my home charger.
For this particular trip, I really wanted a place with level 2, but my mom insisted on staying at a place with air conditioning, which all the places in the area that offered level 2 didn't have. So, for the sake of the air conditioner, I ended up having to make do with level 1. Had another host in the area offered the combination of both level 2 charging an air conditioning, I absolutely would have snapped that place up instead, even if were a higher price.
I'd say you are definitely a dedicated EV driver, doing those calculations for every trip to determine time to charge on level 1, something the average Joe is probably not willing to do.
The last time I stayed at a AirBnB, I used the exterior NEMA 5-20 outlet to add 25% SOC (at 12amps/120v rather than 16amp/120v) overnight via my EVSE (Tesla mobile charger). If I had brought my NEMA 5-20 adapter I could have added about 35% SOC overnight. On the same trip I charged in the underground parking of a hotel via a NEMA 5-15 outlet and again added nearly 25% SOC (2022 M3 RWD). I think that 120v NEMA 5-15/5-20 outlets are underrated as a convenient way to charge overnight.
Yes , just having some charging compared to no charging is underrated.
And if you had an EV with a smaller battery, even charging at 1,4 kW would be a significant boost.
I love to see this partnership and hope it is fully implemented and becomes popular. Side note, this channel is really coming into its own with some great content.
My wife and I have a place in La Quinta, CA which we also use as an ABnB when we’re not there. We drive a MY21 ID4 Pro S which we road-trip back-n-forth to Seattle. We installed a 240V 60A circuit for our use and our tenants. We installed a quick-install z-clip wall mount adapter for use with our CP Home-Flex which we take back-n-forth. Currently we do not leave a L2 charger onsite due to concern about it being taken/removed by a Guest. We do however highlight the fact that we DO have the outlet available and indicate the plug-type (NEMA 14-50) on our Listing as well as an image of the outlet. I’m not completely savvy on all of the units that are available, but a unit with lock-protection for the attachment bolts would probably make ABnB Hosts more comfortable making an expensive EVSE available for Guests.
This is the way. L2 installation isn’t required. All that is needed is a Nema 14-50 outlet. 32 AMPs is more than enough for an overnight charge.
I have a travel 'charger' (EVSE) so even a 14-50 outlet within about 20 feet of the parking location would be an attractive AirB&B amenity if I were considering a road trip in my Mach-E.
This seems to be a much better idea than adding the cost of the EVSE to the homeowner.
This came up a week after installing a new Autel at our Killington Vt short term rental. Looked for one that didn’t require an app for the guest! Max is spot on - there are not many dcfc around Killington (many level 2’s), electrical work cost about $2k because the long run - not including the charger). We are not charging the guests for charging.
We’ve recently been having guests ask about EV charging availability in the area.
I live on the 12th floor of a condo tower group. My parking is under tower 1 and I live in tower 2. It is costing me $7,300 to get a level 2 charger installed. It is just distance to the box. It hurts, but will be amazing when done!
My wife and I enjoy traveling by car for long weekend trips in our 2021 Model Y LR. We do AirBnB and traditional BnB’s mostly and hotels when stopping for a night along our way to our final destination. In the case of AirBnB’s and BnB’s, if the owners themselves are not EV owners, they just don’t even know what a game charger this is to their renters with EVs. We will often talk with the owners of BnB’s over breakfast or some afternoon when we are hanging out, and nearly 100% of them have never even considered it. It isn’t even on their radar. The rare ones that have thought about it, are renting a 200 year old historical building that hasn’t had an electrical upgrade in 60 years and probably couldn’t support EVs without a major overhaul. Even L1 could be an issue.
For AirBnB owners, the houses we rent are often much more modern so it could be done. But the story is the same with most of them… it just isn’t on their radar to even consider to add this to their properties and advertise they have it. We have yet to find one that has L2 charging, so we do browse the posted pictures of the properties paying close attention to the porch and driveway areas for access to a L1 charger. When staying for a long weekend or more, we make sure we arrive at 50%, which often means an extra 20-30 minutes to the trip to get there, but once there, a L1 charge is often more than enough to replenish what we use each day and then some even if we are out and about exploring.
I encourage all EV owners to have this conversation (in person or via email) with every rental property owner. Most of them don’t offer it because they are just completely ignorant about the benefits it would provide for EV renters.
When road tripping with an EV to areas where chargers are scarce, it is enormous peace of mind to know that the charger at the place you are staying is dedicated just for you, and that you don't have to compete for use of it with other EV drivers who might arrive ahead of you, leaving you unable to charge. When staying at AirBnb, a charger is automatically a dedicated charger, since you have the entire property to yourself. When staying at a hotel, even if the chargers are working perfectly, it's still a first-come-first-serve crapshoot.
Again, when staying in rural DCFC deserts, the importance of having a place to plug in overnight that is dedicated only to you cannot be overstated. I would even go so far as to say that, in many circumstances, it is even better to choose a place with only level 1 charging that you know is yours, rather than a hotel with level 2 charging you may or may not actually be able to get.
Thanks for the interesting information Francine & Max Here are the following things I see being a problem with this. Cabins sometimes in rural areas only have a 50 amp power box some have a 60 amp. problem number two rustic cabins may not have any power at them, which means they don’t even have the power to supply your electric. This is the main problem, though with electric vehicles in general I like to get out to areas they’re quite off the beaten path. This means if I decide to rent something, it may be Airbnb doesn’t offer rentals like this rentals are pretty rustic, pretty nice but pretty rustic sothis could lead to problems and this is one main reason why I feel electric vehicles do not have adequate range to cover some of this. Especially the things I see on the cyber truck scenario you’re towing something such as a toy hauler going to the backwoods in a rustic area. Let’s try the state of Wyoming, but I’m sure there’s other places such as Alaska and you get yourself a cabin. You may not even be able to get to that cabin towing item. Due to lack of infrastructure, but a lot of those backwoods places may not have power or may have very limited power. I’d like to know your thoughts on this both of you as well as others.
Great step in the right direction, hopefully they do it in Europe to
Great to see this initiative to get more EV charging at AirB&B rentals. I do wish the video would have provided info on the monthly cost that charge point will charge for their EVSE internet connection, and the ability of the host to collect fees through charge point. Can hosts set TOU rates?
That amount included the PDRNJ sales tax and on top of that there is a $250 state rebate.
IMO there is no need for hosts to spend the extra money to install a 60 Amp circuit to support 48 A charging. If I were a host I would install a 40 Amp circuit, lowering install cost. As a guest, 32 A charging will have my car fully charged every morning, so I will be very satisfied.
When you have two video feeds for a podcast, it wouldn't hurt to cut some at the sides, to fill the screen better.
But what you talk about is what actually matters. I enjoy your podcasts !!!
We went on a trip recently and stayed at a airBnB. I used the EV filter. One place that said it had EV charging had a 120 VAC outlet. The other place we stayed at had a 240 V outlet. But she wasn't sure if it worked. So I decided to bring my voltmeter. Turns out it didn't work. The electrician must have screwed up. It was a new installation.
Be sure to did a little when it says it has a charger. We plan to go back to that place.
Yep did the same on a recent trip we did. The Airbnb had EV charger listed on the app but it also said Tesla only. I ended up contacting the host and they confirmed it was just an outlet. I made them send pictures of the outlet and it was a NEMA 14-50 (they had no clue what type of outlet). It worked perfect for us as I just took my mobile charger which plugs into that outlet (Mache-E). I also let the host know they should more prominently mention it is an outlet only in their listing and to remove the Tesla mention.
I recently took a road trip to rural southern New Mexico and charging was ok but sparse. We spent three nights at a specific Airbnb in a tiny town specifically because it had an EV charger outlet (had to bring my mobile Ford EVSE).
I felt bad actually charging there three nights in a row for at least 70 kWh each time. We ended up leaving 30$ as a tip on the table when we left as an appreciation of the outlet amenity which saved us not only bout 2-3 hours of time but also bout $140 in charging costs from the local DC fast chargers operated exclusively by Francis Energy at 60 cents per kWh.
I absolutely filter by EV charger when looking for Airbnb on roadtrips. It's a no brainer because you save an hour of time and also about $30-50 on electrons.
Thanks Francie and Max for an interesting discussion! I am looking forward to taking my 2023 Tesla Model Y on several road trips this year and most of them involve staying at Air BnB's. I have a 50 foot 10 gauge extension cord and am hoping to do level 1 charging with my mobile Tesla charger at these locations but wow, would level 2 charging at these locations make a big difference ! I hope there is host take up with this idea !
It takes days to charge to a decent % on 110v
@@Bzzap83 Yup, that's why level 2 would be awesome at Air BnB :-)
The Home Flex is usually discounted on Amazon. I got mine with WiFi for a bit over $550 in March.
My home flex died within a few months of installation. Chargepoint support was utter shit. They acknowledged it was a warranty replacement right away, but I Had to wait about 8-10 weeks for them to issue the replacement unit. Had to DCFC during that time and they personally cost me about $400 because of their shit support so I will never buy them again and bash them on all public places. Buyer beware.
I also live in Boulder and recently installed a home EVSE in the 2023 tax year. They added a bunch of red tape to the federal tax credit. You have to live in either a rural or poor zip code. Boulder was excluded from both of those stipulations so I'm surprised Max claimed the tax credit. Unless it was pre 2023 that would not be legal.
I live in Gunbarrel not Boulder proper. I also don’t make a lot of income which might have been why.
@@iMaxPatten Fair enough. Just wanted to make sure people didn't get false hope like I had :(
Another item you have to factor in is the difficulty of running an Air B&b now. I had a townhouse in Branson, MO. It did ok for awhile but then became a pain when the city added taxes and restrictions on Air B&Bs. It wasn’t worth the hassle anymore so I sold it. Same thing happened to a friend who had a property in Breckenridge.
Funny how some of the initial short-term-shop focus areas for rentals are now not viable!
@@Bzzap83 it’s a shame because I loved going to Branson 2 or 3 times a year. For the first couple years the property made money thanks to Air B&B. But then new fees and laws were coming done which did not make it viable anymore. At least the property doubled in value before we sold it👍
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I would argue that you don't necessarily need to install EVSE to support the maximum of what you vehicle can handle.
I could upgrade to charge at 11 kW, but I don't need it, and I would get an increased peek load fee on my electricity bill.
I charge at 2.7 kW and that's still more than I actually need. On the rare occasions I suddenly want more power, I can just go to a DC charger in the neighborhood and get as much as the battery can handle.
Of course 2.7 kW would be low for a full charge over night, but 7 kW would be fairly acceptable, don't necessarily net 11 kW.
Agree, I think 11 kW is is fine if the additional cost compared to getting a slower charger is small. But it is definitely not worth spending thousands of dollars upgrading the electrical panel to be able to support it. The likelihood of a guest staying overnight actually noticing the difference between 6 kW vs. 11 kW is very small.
arnt they going bankrupt? seems like a bad idea....
They just had a pretty good earnings. They expect to be profitable by Q4 and they just got a partnership with Airbnb,Porsche,LG