I think it’s cool they also have a cable brake wired version which is cheaper than the disk version. My older road bike has that. If I went with a Force DI2 AXS, it would be quite expensive to find. I do like how electronic shifting takes a lot off of the hands while shifting. When I was doing the Seattle-to-Portland ride last July, I noticed how fresh my hands (specifically the fingers). Finally, I have 12 speed. I am not a huge fan of the 10T cog. I rather have it a 11T or larger as the highest cog in the rear. Great review! Thanks for giving an American perspective to this groupo!
With GRX Di2, the small-small combo is also off limits, while the big-big is kosher (although noisy, in my experience). Having said that, with GRX you can't get the knickers in a twist by going big-small and then dropping to small-small, as you've done here. It just doesn't allow you to do that.
With all di2 its off limits to go small two casette with small chain ring. I guess he doesnt use di2 much. It is wierd when you normally setup drive trains from lowest cog on small chainring first - took me a minute the first time i got di2 groupsets.
@@ankittuli1746with the minimal price difference and replaceable battery, I’d take the 105 any day and deal with 2 wires routing through the rear of the bike😂
The set up issues and especially the brake hood material feel turn me off. I acknowledge I'm really behind the times with rim brakes, nothing past 9 speeds, using some older105, DuraAce, Deore. No batteries required. Thank you for your detailed review and critique . Stay hydrated. Can't wait to see you and Russ meet soon
The biggest issue I have with Shimano and SRAM is that it seems almost impossible to just buy a groupset here in a Canada. You can't really just find them readily available online and I've never seen one for sale at my local bike shop. They could probably order one for me, but based on the parts I have ordered, the prices would be ridiculously expensive anyway. Upgrading bikes is very frustrating here. If WheelTop and other manufacturers can actually just make their products easy to purchase at a fair price, then they will have a huge advantage over Shimano and SRAM.
If I understand correctly, the batteries on the Wheeltop derailleurs cannot be removed/replaced and Wheeltop has no policy in place for battery replacement. So what happens if: 1) the battery dies within the warranty period; or 2) after several years of use the battery no longer holds a charge?
I'd love to see a v2 with better brake hoods and removeable (or at least self-serviceable) derailleur batteries. If they can do that they'd have the ultimate future proof flexible groupset system.
Sounds like a cage length issue. They likely made the cage shorter for aesthetics. I love the bit values on the app. That's something I'd hope other companies adopt. The shift up and down is likely because the bushings in the derailleur could be a little stiff so it's good to check where it moves naturally. Might be a little overkill in reality though. Great vid
GRX 12 speeds di2 derailleurs also prevent to use the 11 and 12 cog with the small chain ring. Ultegra 12 speeds di2 doesn't have this but I thing Ultegra 11 speeds behaved the same as GRX 12 speeds. I'd love that we could configure this in the di2 application, but we can't. That seems to be presicely the type of thing di2 allows compare to mechanical.
@@TheBikeSauce Also, I think Shimano prevent that switching for the too low chain tension that would result in chain slap on the frame rather than pure cross chaining concerns. Maybe the same here.
I think my DA 12 speed di2 also prevents small small like this. Not sure if it forbids downshifting the front chainring when in small in the back, but realistically I would never try to make that shift anyway.
Why wouldn't they have rechargably shifter batteries? I don't get this whole pencil/watch battery thing sram and these use. Everything else you can recharge...why not the shifters. smh
Could I use this with my 105 calipers and hydraulic hoses? Is it compatible with the front shifters connection? I want to upgrade my backup bike with the 11speed cassette in the back...but would preffer to stay with 105 breaking, which is pretty sweet...
Yeah. I have a bike with 105 mechanical and another one with 105 di2. I honestly don't feel a difference, except the di2 shifters are smaller and a bit easier to hold.
The reason small small is protected rather than big big doesn’t have anything to do with the chain angle. Small-small is where your derailleur cage is fully retracted and supporting the most weight, causing more chain slap. This makes it prone to having a chain drop on the frame side which is bad for a whole lot of reasons, including breaking a frame. Big-big just wears your chain out, and they want you to buy another one soon ;)
if you want rim brake it's a no brainer. There's no 105 di2 rim brake version, you'd have to upgrade to ultegra = $$. Wish this was available when I needed to replace a 10sp shifter. There are none new and used was over 200$. I would have definitely spend some more to get full wireless with future proof gearing. That 200$ part kept me in the 10sp ecosystem.
Bought 2 sets of the LTwoo & work great,this Wheeltop is great if u have rim because Shimano doesnt make rim version anymore also they screw u with being locked into a 1 speed,Wheeltop & LTwoo u can move from different speed bikes,Shimano can do this BUT dont
Do the shifters/calipers take the Shimano funnel and syringe for bleeding? It’s a question I’ve never seen answered in any of the Chinese groupset reviews.
even eds tx are good budget. it still cannot equal as shimano and sram electronic. i did use tx shimano sram and ltwoo probably if you have budget 105 is more cheaper in total. this eds tx are not cheap either you only got shifter fd rd and caliper, you still have buy crankset, disc brake, cassette bottom bracket in total it above 105 budget or apex xplr it not super cheap. eds tx is like mini upgrade set. and the shifting performance not as good as shimano nothing can defeat HG+ as today. and consistency is also far if we compare with sram. and last thing setting this group set are a bit pain in the as.
Thanks for the great video! So, how did you solve this "bug" problem? I do not like a feature that you cannot disable. I do not care if the chain or my groupset will worn a bit faster with this configuration. If I have a bike 2x11, I want to use all the options... It does not make sense for me. Regards do other brands: shimano, sram... So, if you have also a mechanical set that allows you a configuration to use that will damage your system, this for me is a scam! if it is 2x11 you should be able to use everything and be fine. So, we need more competition in the market. I am tired of more than 100 years of bike development and we still have a big and stupid problem to be solved. So, welcome Wheeltop and please, if it is a feature, give us the freedom to disable/enable it.
The battery will last 25 years assuming 300 charge cycles and charging once a month. Don’t see a big market for people wanting to upgrade to electronic for $800. Also, I wonder if Shimano or SRAM upgrades would be cheaper or equal since you wouldn’t need to buy new calipers. Solid reviews as always. Thx.
Just installed a new set on a bike for a friend, the price point is not too much of a different to a full set 105, (factor in you will have to buy the cassette, crankset, chain and all the other parts anyway.) I would strongly advise not to go for it. Compared to Shimano or Sram, this wheeltop groupset is just a piece of junk. The rubber hood is absolutely piece of garbage, the buttons feel very flimsy, the limiter screw and b-screw are very hard to turn and adjust. The rear derailleur cage is made from cheese, it flexes a lot which can actually affect the shifting performance. The app is also a piece of junk. Stay away from it.
Shimano is the SAME way, no small/small but big/big is doable for Di2. Also the small/small is a WORSE combo than big/big. Sram even says that big /big is fine gear to use and they also prevent small/small.
The only reason to consider Wheeltop is if you're upgrading your old rim brake bike. There's no point in buying one if you own a disc bike since it cost just a bit cheaper than 105 di2 😂
Friction bar end front der shifter operating 90s mtb rear der and sunrace 9sp cassette is my go to....total cost usually less than $50-60..... No batteries, no indexing required. Future proof.... :)
@@TheBikeSauce Almost the same price for a product that has exponentially more bad reviews (as I have personally seen at least), even the people they sent the group to for review usually don’t praise it as worth it.
Fair point, but small-small is inaccessible by design in the software. The momentary floppy chain when dropping from big ring to small wouldn't be much different if I used a smaller range cassette; it's a big gap.
@@TheBikeSauce those are *really* weak incentives versus the downsides. Shimano means Parts, service, and warranty support at virtually any local bike shop - plus the considerable Shimano brand cache and resale value.
@@petersouthernboy6327 Except going 12 speed (mechanical ans electronic) with Shimano will also necessitate buying a new frame and potentially a new set of disc wheels since they don't have a rim brake option anymore. So you're going to have to factor in that additional cost as well. If you'd like to go 12 speed electronic on a rim brake bike, it's one of the only remaining options.
rim brake. If you want 12sp rim brake di2, you're moving up to ultegra for significantly more $$. If you have to replace a part on an older bike you're trapped in that speed, like 10 sp. This allows you to upgrade on your schedule rather than what is available from the manufacturer at the time.
I think it’s cool they also have a cable brake wired version which is cheaper than the disk version. My older road bike has that. If I went with a Force DI2 AXS, it would be quite expensive to find. I do like how electronic shifting takes a lot off of the hands while shifting. When I was doing the Seattle-to-Portland ride last July, I noticed how fresh my hands (specifically the fingers). Finally, I have 12 speed. I am not a huge fan of the 10T cog. I rather have it a 11T or larger as the highest cog in the rear. Great review! Thanks for giving an American perspective to this groupo!
The $1200 SRAM Red AXS shifters rattle too.
Haha kinda figured
With GRX Di2, the small-small combo is also off limits, while the big-big is kosher (although noisy, in my experience). Having said that, with GRX you can't get the knickers in a twist by going big-small and then dropping to small-small, as you've done here. It just doesn't allow you to do that.
With all di2 its off limits to go small two casette with small chain ring. I guess he doesnt use di2 much. It is wierd when you normally setup drive trains from lowest cog on small chainring first - took me a minute the first time i got di2 groupsets.
Thanks for your typically detailed analysis, especially as it relates to the implementation of their so-called "chain protection" feature [bug].
It’s interesting, but as others have pointed out, other brands have the same feature as well
Great review. Looks like a hot day in sunny CA,
As far as the price goes, this set doesn’t come with crankset. If you factor in the crankset cost, it will be even closer to 105 Di2 pricing.
Yup very true
Bought my set for $500 USD. Would not pay more for it, especially not at their current MSRP which has raised continually since 'launch'.
But 105 di2 is not fully wireless
@@ankittuli1746with the minimal price difference and replaceable battery, I’d take the 105 any day and deal with 2 wires routing through the rear of the bike😂
@@weilliam yep! Unless the price is substantially cheaper, there is little incentive to go with Wheeltop option.
The set up issues and especially the brake hood material feel turn me off. I acknowledge I'm really behind the times with rim brakes, nothing past 9 speeds, using some older105, DuraAce, Deore. No batteries required.
Thank you for your detailed review and critique . Stay hydrated.
Can't wait to see you and Russ meet soon
The biggest issue I have with Shimano and SRAM is that it seems almost impossible to just buy a groupset here in a Canada. You can't really just find them readily available online and I've never seen one for sale at my local bike shop. They could probably order one for me, but based on the parts I have ordered, the prices would be ridiculously expensive anyway. Upgrading bikes is very frustrating here. If WheelTop and other manufacturers can actually just make their products easy to purchase at a fair price, then they will have a huge advantage over Shimano and SRAM.
super interested in a wheeltop vs ltwoo comparison. The BEST feature of these cheap(er) alternatives is the customizable cassette speeds.
I’ll try and get a hold of one of
Ltwoo keeps upgrading the group set. Ppl have gotten the latest found a problem than found out ltwoo solved the problem in the next version.
Nice video, well put together & informative. What camera are you using?
Reasonable title and good review.
😆
If I understand correctly, the batteries on the Wheeltop derailleurs cannot be removed/replaced and Wheeltop has no policy in place for battery replacement. So what happens if: 1) the battery dies within the warranty period; or 2) after several years of use the battery no longer holds a charge?
Return it and get a new one?
I'd love to see a v2 with better brake hoods and removeable (or at least self-serviceable) derailleur batteries. If they can do that they'd have the ultimate future proof flexible groupset system.
Sounds like a cage length issue. They likely made the cage shorter for aesthetics. I love the bit values on the app. That's something I'd hope other companies adopt. The shift up and down is likely because the bushings in the derailleur could be a little stiff so it's good to check where it moves naturally. Might be a little overkill in reality though. Great vid
I was thinking the same thing... maybe made worse by the chainring/cassette combo exceeding the manufacturer's stated capacity
Shimano GRX 11 speed Di2 also doesn't do small/small. Good feature in my opinion.
GRX 12 speeds di2 derailleurs also prevent to use the 11 and 12 cog with the small chain ring. Ultegra 12 speeds di2 doesn't have this but I thing Ultegra 11 speeds behaved the same as GRX 12 speeds.
I'd love that we could configure this in the di2 application, but we can't. That seems to be presicely the type of thing di2 allows compare to mechanical.
Perfect, thanks for that. I suspected others group sets might have this same feature
@@TheBikeSauce Also, I think Shimano prevent that switching for the too low chain tension that would result in chain slap on the frame rather than pure cross chaining concerns. Maybe the same here.
Another good point.
I think my DA 12 speed di2 also prevents small small like this. Not sure if it forbids downshifting the front chainring when in small in the back, but realistically I would never try to make that shift anyway.
I am waiting to see what Shimano cooks for the Tiagra.
Why wouldn't they have rechargably shifter batteries? I don't get this whole pencil/watch battery thing sram and these use. Everything else you can recharge...why not the shifters. smh
Could I use this with my 105 calipers and hydraulic hoses? Is it compatible with the front shifters connection? I want to upgrade my backup bike with the 11speed cassette in the back...but would preffer to stay with 105 breaking, which is pretty sweet...
The real DI2 electro-Drive "Killer" is:
Mechanical❤
😆😆
only if the industry returns to external routing
@@themeatpopsicle absolut:)
Yeah. I have a bike with 105 mechanical and another one with 105 di2. I honestly don't feel a difference, except the di2 shifters are smaller and a bit easier to hold.
@@tengouku the diverence in costs,is noticeable;)
Did you do Fullerton to the top of Turnbull? Animal!
ha, it's only the Turnbull climb from Maverick
The reason small small is protected rather than big big doesn’t have anything to do with the chain angle. Small-small is where your derailleur cage is fully retracted and supporting the most weight, causing more chain slap. This makes it prone to having a chain drop on the frame side which is bad for a whole lot of reasons, including breaking a frame. Big-big just wears your chain out, and they want you to buy another one soon ;)
if you want rim brake it's a no brainer. There's no 105 di2 rim brake version, you'd have to upgrade to ultegra = $$. Wish this was available when I needed to replace a 10sp shifter. There are none new and used was over 200$. I would have definitely spend some more to get full wireless with future proof gearing. That 200$ part kept me in the 10sp ecosystem.
Why is big-big cross-chaining the worst? Is it because of smaller distance between chianring and cog/sprocket?
largest chain angle
Bought 2 sets of the LTwoo & work great,this Wheeltop is great if u have rim because Shimano doesnt make rim version anymore also they screw u with being locked into a 1 speed,Wheeltop & LTwoo u can move from different speed bikes,Shimano can do this BUT dont
Do the shifters/calipers take the Shimano funnel and syringe for bleeding? It’s a question I’ve never seen answered in any of the Chinese groupset reviews.
Yes, it’s the same bleed kit. There may be one special fitting for the brifter end, but it’s included in the group
How did you get this in the US?
Small-small is also not allowed in Shimano 12-speed Dura Ace Di2
Good to know!
Rim break option?
There is a rim brake option. Costs less than the hydro, but the shifting is the same
There is a rim brake version
even eds tx are good budget. it still cannot equal as shimano and sram electronic.
i did use tx shimano sram and ltwoo
probably if you have budget 105 is more cheaper in total.
this eds tx are not cheap either you only got shifter fd rd and caliper, you still have buy crankset, disc brake, cassette bottom bracket in total it above 105 budget or apex xplr
it not super cheap. eds tx is like mini upgrade set. and the shifting performance not as good as shimano nothing can defeat HG+ as today.
and consistency is also far if we compare with sram.
and last thing setting this group set are a bit pain in the as.
Man you could get that Posidon Triton you reviewed and this and be out the door with a top spec'd bike for like $1500.....
Ha! Could be a fun video..
@ no doubt! You could build it up and compare it to something comparable like a black heart. I bet it would close to a 2k price difference
Thanks for the great video! So, how did you solve this "bug" problem? I do not like a feature that you cannot disable. I do not care if the chain or my groupset will worn a bit faster with this configuration. If I have a bike 2x11, I want to use all the options... It does not make sense for me. Regards do other brands: shimano, sram... So, if you have also a mechanical set that allows you a configuration to use that will damage your system, this for me is a scam! if it is 2x11 you should be able to use everything and be fine. So, we need more competition in the market. I am tired of more than 100 years of bike development and we still have a big and stupid problem to be solved. So, welcome Wheeltop and please, if it is a feature, give us the freedom to disable/enable it.
didnt think to lube your chain
wax running a bit dry
The battery will last 25 years assuming 300 charge cycles and charging once a month.
Don’t see a big market for people wanting to upgrade to electronic for $800. Also, I wonder if Shimano or SRAM upgrades would be cheaper or equal since you wouldn’t need to buy new calipers.
Solid reviews as always. Thx.
Great points and insights.
allowing different speeds is nice. Its complete greed that SRAM and SHIMANO don't offer as well.
Just installed a new set on a bike for a friend, the price point is not too much of a different to a full set 105, (factor in you will have to buy the cassette, crankset, chain and all the other parts anyway.) I would strongly advise not to go for it. Compared to Shimano or Sram, this wheeltop groupset is just a piece of junk. The rubber hood is absolutely piece of garbage, the buttons feel very flimsy, the limiter screw and b-screw are very hard to turn and adjust. The rear derailleur cage is made from cheese, it flexes a lot which can actually affect the shifting performance. The app is also a piece of junk. Stay away from it.
Shimano is the SAME way, no small/small but big/big is doable for Di2. Also the small/small is a WORSE combo than big/big. Sram even says that big /big is fine gear to use and they also prevent small/small.
Turnbull Canyon in the heat, ouch.
🥵
The only reason to consider Wheeltop is if you're upgrading your old rim brake bike. There's no point in buying one if you own a disc bike since it cost just a bit cheaper than 105 di2 😂
The two big s-companys need to allow the end user to use it with older stuff like 9/10/11 speed systems
(And rim brakes) asap!
Protip: black shirts absorb more heat than any other color
isn't this killing SRAM too ???
The wheel top uses mineral oil and highly resembles shimano groups in design, hence the title. But yea, SRAM too
Friction bar end front der shifter operating 90s mtb rear der and sunrace 9sp cassette is my go to....total cost usually less than $50-60..... No batteries, no indexing required. Future proof.... :)
Haha truly a forever group
I'm with you, the bike industry has been hijacked by the TA groupset.
Insanity. The prices here should buy several bikes. What happened to regular bikes?
Relegated to department stores 😢
Wheeltop really spent their entire marketing budget on youtubers, smart but never in my life will I buy this 😂
Curious to hear why, if in reference to a 105 or rival setup
@@TheBikeSauce Almost the same price for a product that has exponentially more bad reviews (as I have personally seen at least), even the people they sent the group to for review usually don’t praise it as worth it.
So the capacity is only 30 and you are exceeding that. No wonder the small small doesn’t work
Fair point, but small-small is inaccessible by design in the software. The momentary floppy chain when dropping from big ring to small wouldn't be much different if I used a smaller range cassette; it's a big gap.
What’s a grifter?
😂
🤷♂️
There is no incentive to go for this groupset. None. Not at current web storefront prices for 105 Di2.
User selectable number of gears is an incentive. Rim brake option is another
@@TheBikeSauce those are *really* weak incentives versus the downsides. Shimano means Parts, service, and warranty support at virtually any local bike shop - plus the considerable Shimano brand cache and resale value.
@@petersouthernboy6327 Except going 12 speed (mechanical ans electronic) with Shimano will also necessitate buying a new frame and potentially a new set of disc wheels since they don't have a rim brake option anymore. So you're going to have to factor in that additional cost as well.
If you'd like to go 12 speed electronic on a rim brake bike, it's one of the only remaining options.
@@_CyclingNeko I have never met anyone psychotic enough to want rim brakes and electronic shifting - so I’m sure that’s my own shortcoming.
rim brake. If you want 12sp rim brake di2, you're moving up to ultegra for significantly more $$. If you have to replace a part on an older bike you're trapped in that speed, like 10 sp. This allows you to upgrade on your schedule rather than what is available from the manufacturer at the time.