All i need is 9 speed sora on my gravelbike. Rear derailleur is a mtb 9 speed alivio to fit a 11- 40 cassette in the back. Everything is affordable if you stay with 9 speed and also easy to adjust.
I almost wanted a Tiagra until I remember 9 speed Shimano have the same cable pull mtb & road, so a combination of road lever and mtb rear mech is gonna be better for a climbing machine.
I love this take. I have lots of high end bikes but I think a cheap, simple bike has tremendous appeal. I should probably get a good quality used steel frame and throw rim brake 4700 on it. Crashing, mud, rain, sticks... eh, so what. A new RD is $35. Sometimes I don't want to ride my high end bikes because I'm worried about damaging them. I'm doing it wrong.
Regarding the weight Dobbs, the best place to save would be the crankset. The Tiagra crankset is almost 900 grams alone. I upgraded to lighter canks from Velo Orange, got a 2by combination of choice, and saved over 105 by buying the other components from Tiagra. I later sold Tiagra rimbrakes and upgraded to ultegra rimbrakes. The best of all worlds: I get the same range as ultegra on 2by 11, the weight saving is not enough that matters to an amateur rider like me; but the money saved sure does. And the bikes performs flawless. The other thing one can do after saving on Tiagra over 105 is to get the best cables and housing you can. Some of the Jagwire stuff (KEB-SL) for example makes mechanical brakes soooooooooooooo much better wow.
This is a good tip and it's true of lots of groups. I have a Rival AXS group on a bike I built in 2022, but I swapped in the '22 Force crank. That combination brought the entire groupset to within 70 grams of 2022 Force AXS.
Good cables are vastly underrated, you are absolutely right in mentioning Jagwire here. For a couple of tenners, it's a considerable upgrade. For me it's Jagwire on every bike.
@@ClockworksOfGL I totally agree. Had them on one of my bikes ten years ago and I did not like them at all. Cantilever and V-brake all the way. The ease and cost of maintenance are way superior to disc brakes and the difference in stopping power is doesn't warrant the extra hassle. The only pro, imo, for discs is the life expectancy of your rims but they usually go bust by my maltreatment before the braking surface wears out anyway. And I don't like internal routing either.....🙄
I just bought a brand new road bike from Polygon with full shimano 105 (except chain) for $800. Yes it has rim brakes and I like the rim brakes better than any mechanical disc brakes I've ridden and better than some hydraulic disc brakes.
Yeah Polygon really does give you incredible value for money. The only thing that I seem to have a problem with them is most of their bikes don’t seem to fit me. When ever I enter my measurements I basically get results back saying “sorry we have nothing for you” lol which sucks because I would love to road test one. I really love what they’re doing with their lines right now.
@@dobbscycleworks what? No available size for you? You should use the size chart instead of entering your measurement on the website, polygon website might not work properly , that is one of the things i do not like about bike manufacturers in my country, they do not maintain their website properly.
The good: huge upgrade from 8 speed Sora on an old bike. The bad: Durability. Less than 2000 miles over three years and and my 10 speed went to a 9 speed because of slop in the rear mech pivot and internal wear in the shifters. The good: compatability with 105 7000 series 11 speed. I swapped the shifters and rear mech to 105. Still running 10 speed tiagra cassette, front deraileur, crankset, and rim brakes. Shifts perfectly. 11 speed cassette won't fit on old wheelset.
I have a 1979 Apollo Gran Sport and just had Tiagra installed. I kept the original parts on the bike which were not required for the groupset like the brakes, handlebar, etc. I'm very happy with it.
I had a 105 equipped Kuota from 2012 that i really enjoyed but i got stolen on Christmas. Come january i found the Merida Scultura Endurance 300 on stock at a retailer with Tiagra groupset and i just fell for it. Order it and will get it in about a week. and i gotta say your video is one of the reasons i dethroned the 105 and began my tiagra(french) revolution. Will get back with updates after a couple of rides. :D
I have a Vitus Zenium Tiagra ... CF frame ...got it on sale for $1200... changed to a CF crank for $130... vision trimax30 rims for $230 and new brake pads... absolutely love my bike ... Tiagra is awesome... very precise shifting even under load going up hill.... you can also adjust levers... bike weighs with pedals 7.9 kilos.... mechanical disc that I prefer just for ease of maintenance and it's lighter... I have no issues stopping after I got cycle1st brake pads semi metallic.... awesome bike ... too bad they just stopped selling here in the USA....
Sram fanboy here since 11s was released up until 12s AXS. I have recently purchased a couple old Shimano derailleurs 6600 Ultegra and 5600 105 to polish up to for a vintage downtube friction 11s build, we'll see how that works out. Also a 4700 long cage, boy is it heavy.
CUES road is probably launching in the coming year, which will include 11 speed options. Unfortunately the pull ratio, chains, and cassettes are all incompatible with previous 11 speed groupsets
Agree, but hey, if we are smart enough, this is the best time to get tiagra because given its run, I doubt second hand parts as and when and if needed will be an issue at all. Hell, given the 105 prices, one can buy two new sets of tiagra components for life!
I don't like CUES. I expect it to be heavy and e-bike compatible. Desing looks soulless. It's not enter level for enthusiasts, it's more for trekking riders.
My favorite group set ever was Shimano 105 (r5800?) that came on a 2016 Masi CXGR. Most reliable, super crisp shifts ever. Even when I mixed and matched parts it was flawless. My final setup on that bike was a SRAM 10spd mtb double crankset, Truvativ 42/28 rings, SRAM chain, Suntour 11-36 11spd cassette, with a Wolftooth road link. Never missed a shift, and I rode that bike through all kinds of shitty conditions. I’ve had multiple iterations of Ultegra, including the latest (mechanical) version on my current road bike, have GRX 600 on my gravel bike, but nothing beats that 105.
I have Tiagra on my bike for two years now and claimed it "Groupset of the people". I also race,so...I got the bug to make it better for that. Mostly weight. Crankset is much heavier than 105 but I replaced 50/34 stock for 52/36 Absolute Black and saved 150gr, 11-34 cassette is 370gr but SRAM 1070 11-33 is 290,Ultegra 6700 11-28 is 250gr. I wondered what I'm leaving in brake department with mechanical brakes. Than I did something stupid and bought gravel bike with GRX 400. Switched levers, brakes, RD from that bike and 105 FD. Sold gravel bike with Tiagra. It is great groupset, for sporty rider I say go for lighter crankset and cassette and hydraulic brakes. For kids and women there is smaller lever version 4725. It's better than DA 7800, I don't miss 11.
4700 is also compatible with GRX400. I have a bike that started life as a 4700'd hybrid, that is now a 4700 Franken-gravelly thing with drop bars. Currently set up with: GRX400 rear with a 11-40 (and YES it works and shifts perfectly), a 4700 48/34 crankset with 4720 hydro levers with Ultegra BR-RS785 post mount calipers. I have friends who ride 105'd bikes.....4700 is WAY more durable
RX400 is also compatible with R7000 shifters. A have R7000 (hydro) shifter, 11 speed cassette and RX400 rear mech. Works perfect. It was cheep upgrade from road+ to gravel.
Fellow bike mechanic here - 4700 works really well. One of the best mechanical shifting/hydraulic brifters Shimano has ever made are the small hands version (ST-4725). It has smoother shifting than the normal sized 11sp hydro brifters, and the levers have a wider blade which is much more ergonomic. I have one gripe with the Tiagra 4700 - which is at the small ring of their triple crankset where Shimano invented a new standard for the chainring (asymmetrical 73 BCD). That 4700 gruppo with small hands levers will age like fine wine....
10 years ago I bought an Ultegra equipped road bike. When the RH lever broke I replaced with Tiagra shifters (the last iteration with external gear cables) and 105 f/r ten speed and the differnce is like night and day. The Ultegra ran with a clickety-clack, it needed frequent indexing, and the shifts weren't great. The new set-up runs almost silently, the changes are more positive and it rarely needs re-indexing. I don't know about electronic, but I believe the omptimum was reached with 10 speed, beyond which the tolerances are too tight.
I don’t know… if affordability is a key factor to determining “the people’s groupset, why stop at Tiagra? Why not Sora?? Sure it’s a 9spd group set but it comes in both 2x9 and 3x9. With road levers and flat bar triggers. I know bike shop mechanics who have installed Sora group sets on their bikes, but plan on skipping Tiagra for 105. Compatibility? Tiagra derailleurs being compatible with 11 spd shifters isn’t anything I would brag about. That would mean mixing with a 105 or Ultegra component. Why not just use those as your groupset instead? These days you can get 9 or 10spd components from older ultegra and 105 sets easily. Sure they may be used but they’re still really good. The only advantage I really see here is that Tiagra is available. I have never seen Tiagra components out of stock. But for Tiagra’s compatibility issue, usually the best option to go with once you pick up one Tiagra part is to go full Tiagra. Sure 105 has gone up in price, but once you have a component, whether 11 or 12 spd, it should be compatible with 105, ultegra, or Dura-ace of the same speed. With that said, 105 feels like an invitation to more cycling adventures, an on ramp or a crossroad. Tiagra just feels more like a detour.
I'm open to correction here but I'm sure I read one time that Tiagra 4700 10 speed levers and rear mechs have compatibility problems with other Shimano 10 speed groupsets. For example , if I trash a 105 10 speed rear mech I cannot replace it with the cheaper Tiagra 4700 rear mech because its pull ratio does not match the 105 10 speed levers. Is this correct?
Yes that is correct, older shimano 10 speed has a different pull ratio than the 4700 but Tiagra does use the same pull ratio as R7000 and R8000 so you technically can mix and match those.
When I upgraded from 105 5600 to Tiagra 4700, I forgot to take cable pull ratio into account, so now I've ended up with not just the ST-4700 and FD-4700, I have the RD-4700 too. Good thing the rear derailleur was in the same shop I got the front derailleur from, only the STI levers are new.
I have the gravel cousin a GT Grade with GRX 400. 46 30 FSA chainring. 11 36 cassette so 500% gear range. No idea how to service the hydraulic brakes. However they do perform well,
Most entry level road bikes come with 10 speed compatible hubs. So if you want to upgrade to 11 speed 105. You will need a new 11 speed wheel set or rebuild your rear wheel with new hubs.
right, you would need to eventually once you get the rest of the group but if you mix the 105 11 with 4700 you have to limit the mech to 10 speed for it to work and not throw the derailleur into the wheel. Side note, my brother trashed a 2003 Bianchi Veloce by not keeping up with the maintenance and he threw the derailleur into the rear wheel. I will never forgive him for that lol
Use an 11 speed 105 with my Tiagra simply because I like the way the Shadow mech sticks out less. Total success. Actually runs quieter than original too. Having had all the 10/11 speed groupsets on various bikes, I feel 10 speed is peak mechanical. Just that bit less fussy and the chains last a touch longer.
I replaced the microshift transmission of my rc 520 with tiagra 4700 transmission (everything, shifters included), as I don't need 11 or 12 speeds an I'm pretty happy with it. The cassette is 11-34 and my previous one was 11-32 so it's also little nice upgrade.
to me the current 105 seems like an epic flop so far. Literally a month after the release i saw ton of it on massive sales. 12 speed has nothing to do with people lol.
The thing is, at the lower end (such as alivio/acera and sora/tiagra), there isn't much difference in cost to manufacture the various groupset components, so makes no sense to keep them
Especially now that the Cues drop bar shifters have been all but confirmed. Everything below 105 will now be in the cues eco system which I don’t think is necessarily a bad thing.
I use a XT 9 speed rear Derailleur with 10 speed brifters. I get the long cage, with large rear cassette, and drop bars. Makes a very flexible drive train.
My older Tiagra derailleur stopped working correctly this year (after 10 years of heavy use) because of the different pull ratios of newer tiagra I couldn’t replace it with a new tiagra derailleur but my bikeshop had an old 10 speed ultegra derailleur lying around which the cleaned up and fitted. It’s actually improved the shifting. Who needs more than 10speed?
Even your Tiagra shifters (I guess ST-4600?) finally give up the ghost, there will be still lots of compatible derailleur lying about, such as Sora, Claris and all the 9-speed MTB derailleurs. I guess it will be a really long time before 10-speed becomes totally obsolete.
Just reuse R7000 parts to make the "new" Tiagra 4800(or R5000), keep the silver option and rim brakes, then we still have people's group with minimal efforts by Shimano. But maybe there won't be Tiagra and lower tiers anymore, and a road CUES ecosystem will replace them all.
Yes. And second hand 10 speed dura ace wheelsets, say 7800, or rs 80, will cost you 200 bucks (I'm talking rim brakes). 400 to 600 for a capable groupset and an awesome wheelset, plus 600 for a good condition second hand frameset, and voilà
Hi, sorry for late comment, but i bought used local brand 2015 mtb for 60$ and its heavy. and then i've changed the groupset with Tiagra 4700 flatbar right shifter, cassete and rd. And for the front, i put deore 3x crankset, fd and the shifter. Its looks cool, the reason i dont use the tiagra crankset its because its to big for me and i dont like the mtb rd and shifters looks. Well,.... The groupset are more expensive than the bike itself.. lol but i like my bike
Only buy the Tiagra shifters, then use a 10 speed Microshift rear deraillieur and aliexpress CVR crankset (with steel axle) to get the weight to 105/Ultegra territory.
The groupset of the poeple ...No really, I have a 2x8 Microshift groupset and it's fine. I'd love t upgrade to a 2x10 Tiagra. I would win on all fronts... Although one question... can I install a crank based powermeter? (quick Google says that as long as it uses the Shimano’s Hollowtech II interface something like a 4iii or stages pm should work fine... )
Yeah you could definitely go that route or just get a 3rd party power metered crank. Might run into some wonky issues with 10 speed chain rings so maybe power meter pedals might be an option to look into as well. I’ll do some more research and get back to you cause now I’m curious about that
I built a flat bar bike with a steel genesis frame and forks it has rim brakes and a mix and match of Shimano 105 and tiagra 4700 parts, the tiagra 10speed flat bar shifters are really smooth and work fine with the 105 mechs overall this bike is simplicity and I give the tiagra 4700 a big thumbs up
good call out! yeah definitely should have taken a look at it against GRX, luckily I might just be getting a GRX equipped bike soon so I could actually get to do a hands on comparison.
I am a fan of 4700. I should state that I have bikes with other, higher-end groups. But 4700 works just about as well. The fact that it’s 10-speed doesn’t bother me at all. Indeed, I would not want to have to fiddle with mechanical 12-speed; it’s just a bit too delicate to index. It’s telling, however, that Shimano has done nothing to upgrade Tiagra in years. While one could argue that 400-level GRX is actually an upgraded Tiagra, 4700 remains unchanged. Rumors are, of course, that Tiagra will be phased out when CUES goes drop bar. That would be a shame.
My Cube Attain from 2019 has most 20k on it and never had problems with the groupset. It's an amazing groupset. The downsides are the 10 speed compatability problems and the front mech is just so bad compared to 105 or ultegra, its just dated.
Everytime a customer brings in a Sora equipped bike that has the more modern R3000 I'm always really pleasantly surprised by it. Pretty solid components and that rear mech is more than happy to do its job well. And the entire group can be bought for like $200 so it's really a pretty good option. I probably wouldn't ever build a "race bike" with it but I'd be more than happy with it on a little around town bike.
In the near future 4700 will be folded into the Cues family which I’m not totally upset about especially with the ease of compatibility and switching around components in that ecosystem. Once shimano fully releases the Cues drop bar shifters that’ll be game over for Claris through Tiagra.
@@dobbscycleworks did not know about CUES. They aren't far off from doing that either. Claris, Sora, and Tiagra have already been dropped from the main part of the US site.
Shame to see them go, Sora and Tiagra were my bread and butter of junior racing. But as a mechanic, I really can’t be mad about the insane compatibility of the Cues drive trains.
@@dobbscycleworks I may upgrade my shifters to 5800 or 6800. The Tiagra 4700 RD is indexed for the 11spd before the RX000 lines came out. I'm not ready for a new bike just yet. I already have a 6800 FD to handle the 52T.
Also not bad group sets by any means but when I’ve tested between Claris/Sora/Tiagra there is a definite notable increase in performance with Tiagra over the other too. Like I said Claris and Sora are still great but I think Tiagra just sits in the perfect place between performance and affordable intro.
Yes, the nameplates are the most annoying drawback on the Tiagra shifters, I've already had to replace both, 😂 I've had them shifters for a couple of years now, so not very durable! But I do some gravel riding in the summer, so the extra vibration isn't kind to the little plastic thingies...
Well, so in my search to upgrade my bike (current bike is an Olmo built up NR in 1983), I had decided after the Dura Ace/Ultegra crankset fiasco that I might downgrade to 105. Now it seems I might downgrade to Tiagra. See how much money you've saved me already? Oh, and nothing wrong with your video editing.
This fucking groupset. I ordered tiagra 4700 10 speed shifters and a 105 10 speed derailleur before I knew better. The fact that I got it to shift as good as it did was a testament to my dedication to get something to work. They dont work together, nearly at all. In case you didnt know. Pull ratios.
Yep, and oddly enough it is the same pull ratio as shimano’s 11 speed r7000 and r8000 so you can technically interchange parts of those groups with Tiagra. It’s so strange and yet I still love it lol.
Real peoples cassette gearing too, please ! Who is strong enough to pulled a 11,12 or even a13 sometimes on the flat. Merckx did is hour record on 52×14, and recognised after having suffered like hell ! If this gear is enough for him for 1 hour , it should be more than enough for me for 1 minute ! Please stopped giving Ferrari transmission for all thoses honda civic motors , is it to hard to figure this thing out !?!
@@TnFruit you're entitled to that, but I don't understand how stating the MSRP at launch and then stating you can find it cheaper now is any different than you saying you got it cheaper. the MSRP at launch is an unchangeable fact, for the rest of time that price will be what it cost when it was first introduced so how can I reference a specific number cheaper than that when that is subject to change based on retailer and region on a whim? If we want to discuss "realistic" prices, then the launch MSRP is the only realistic one because it is the only one that will never change.
@@dobbscycleworks well, you didn't make this Video at launch, you did it yesterday. So, in my opinion, you should use a realistic price. I think the MSRP sounds better in your "comparison" to get more clicks. 🫵🏻
Indeed, we knew it was coming but I’ll still miss Tiagra. Granted, it’ll still be around for a while until the supply of replacement parts dries up but we even see Tiagra from 2008 regularly still functioning great so who knows. Maybe it will still be around with those who love it for a while.
Dude, this video is like a year out of date. Even GCN made a video on the exact same topic when it was still relevant. In the last month I have seen full R7150 groupset for 950 euros brand new and R7020 for 550, also brand new. Tiagra isn't that much cheaper and your chain will jump all over the place because that old rear mech has zero tension. I've seen used R8020 cheaper than new Tiagra. There are so many better options.
Let me save you 12 minutes. No no it is not better than 105. Is it good enough? Yes probably for the vast majority of people Tiagra is just fine and will get you from A to B.
All i need is 9 speed sora on my gravelbike. Rear derailleur is a mtb 9 speed alivio to fit a 11- 40 cassette in the back. Everything is affordable if you stay with 9 speed and also easy to adjust.
I almost wanted a Tiagra until I remember 9 speed Shimano have the same cable pull mtb & road, so a combination of road lever and mtb rear mech is gonna be better for a climbing machine.
John Lennon said "Tiagra is all you need."
He only said that because he's a jealous guy.
Jajajajajaja
Im still riding 8 speed Sora. I love the Campy style thumbshifters.
Me too. 10 usd for a casette😂
Taking me back to memories of learning to ride lol
I love this take. I have lots of high end bikes but I think a cheap, simple bike has tremendous appeal. I should probably get a good quality used steel frame and throw rim brake 4700 on it. Crashing, mud, rain, sticks... eh, so what. A new RD is $35. Sometimes I don't want to ride my high end bikes because I'm worried about damaging them. I'm doing it wrong.
Good info on pull ratios. It took me a fair bit of reading to figure all that out
Regarding the weight Dobbs, the best place to save would be the crankset. The Tiagra crankset is almost 900 grams alone. I upgraded to lighter canks from Velo Orange, got a 2by combination of choice, and saved over 105 by buying the other components from Tiagra. I later sold Tiagra rimbrakes and upgraded to ultegra rimbrakes. The best of all worlds: I get the same range as ultegra on 2by 11, the weight saving is not enough that matters to an amateur rider like me; but the money saved sure does. And the bikes performs flawless. The other thing one can do after saving on Tiagra over 105 is to get the best cables and housing you can. Some of the Jagwire stuff (KEB-SL) for example makes mechanical brakes soooooooooooooo much better wow.
This is a good tip and it's true of lots of groups. I have a Rival AXS group on a bike I built in 2022, but I swapped in the '22 Force crank. That combination brought the entire groupset to within 70 grams of 2022 Force AXS.
Good cables are vastly underrated, you are absolutely right in mentioning Jagwire here. For a couple of tenners, it's a considerable upgrade. For me it's Jagwire on every bike.
@@RenghisKhan- Good cables are a worthy upgrade. Plus I adamantly refuse to consider hydraulic brakes on a damn bicycle. I mean…come on…. 🙄
@@ClockworksOfGL I totally agree. Had them on one of my bikes ten years ago and I did not like them at all. Cantilever and V-brake all the way. The ease and cost of maintenance are way superior to disc brakes and the difference in stopping power is doesn't warrant the extra hassle. The only pro, imo, for discs is the life expectancy of your rims but they usually go bust by my maltreatment before the braking surface wears out anyway.
And I don't like internal routing either.....🙄
You could you one (or maybe two!) good holidays with the money saved :) @@davidnicholson6680
I just bought a brand new road bike from Polygon with full shimano 105 (except chain) for $800. Yes it has rim brakes and I like the rim brakes better than any mechanical disc brakes I've ridden and better than some hydraulic disc brakes.
Simplicity of rim brakes
Polygon will give you more bangs for your bucks compared to other european bikes manufacturer , it is the best bike manufacturer in my country.
Yeah Polygon really does give you incredible value for money. The only thing that I seem to have a problem with them is most of their bikes don’t seem to fit me. When ever I enter my measurements I basically get results back saying “sorry we have nothing for you” lol which sucks because I would love to road test one. I really love what they’re doing with their lines right now.
@@dobbscycleworks what? No available size for you? You should use the size chart instead of entering your measurement on the website, polygon website might not work properly , that is one of the things i do not like about bike manufacturers in my country, they do not maintain their website properly.
The good: huge upgrade from 8 speed Sora on an old bike.
The bad: Durability. Less than 2000 miles over three years and and my 10 speed went to a 9 speed because of slop in the rear mech pivot and internal wear in the shifters.
The good: compatability with 105 7000 series 11 speed. I swapped the shifters and rear mech to 105. Still running 10 speed tiagra cassette, front deraileur, crankset, and rim brakes. Shifts perfectly. 11 speed cassette won't fit on old wheelset.
I have a 1979 Apollo Gran Sport and just had Tiagra installed. I kept the original parts on the bike which were not required for the groupset like the brakes, handlebar, etc. I'm very happy with it.
Replacement cassette price is the main reason for me to stick with Tiagra. Really it boils down to 10 speed being enough for what you need
Is a 12speed alot better? Only reason i want to upgrade is for the 12speed 😂
My Son-in-law bought a bike with it on it. It works really well and has the same range as the 12 speed. It goes up to a 34 on the back.
I had a 105 equipped Kuota from 2012 that i really enjoyed but i got stolen on Christmas. Come january i found the Merida Scultura Endurance 300 on stock at a retailer with Tiagra groupset and i just fell for it. Order it and will get it in about a week. and i gotta say your video is one of the reasons i dethroned the 105 and began my tiagra(french) revolution. Will get back with updates after a couple of rides. :D
I have a Vitus Zenium Tiagra ... CF frame ...got it on sale for $1200... changed to a CF crank for $130... vision trimax30 rims for $230 and new brake pads... absolutely love my bike ... Tiagra is awesome... very precise shifting even under load going up hill.... you can also adjust levers... bike weighs with pedals 7.9 kilos.... mechanical disc that I prefer just for ease of maintenance and it's lighter... I have no issues stopping after I got cycle1st brake pads semi metallic.... awesome bike ... too bad they just stopped selling here in the USA....
Sram fanboy here since 11s was released up until 12s AXS. I have recently purchased a couple old Shimano derailleurs 6600 Ultegra and 5600 105 to polish up to for a vintage downtube friction 11s build, we'll see how that works out. Also a 4700 long cage, boy is it heavy.
Love The Doors style music to introduce the categories lol. Keep up the good work!
I found that on one of the asset sites I use and I think I’m going to put it in more often lol
This was informative, and very entertaining. Nice
CUES road is probably launching in the coming year, which will include 11 speed options. Unfortunately the pull ratio, chains, and cassettes are all incompatible with previous 11 speed groupsets
Agree, but hey, if we are smart enough, this is the best time to get tiagra because given its run, I doubt second hand parts as and when and if needed will be an issue at all. Hell, given the 105 prices, one can buy two new sets of tiagra components for life!
I don't like CUES. I expect it to be heavy and e-bike compatible. Desing looks soulless. It's not enter level for enthusiasts, it's more for trekking riders.
My favorite group set ever was Shimano 105 (r5800?) that came on a 2016 Masi CXGR. Most reliable, super crisp shifts ever. Even when I mixed and matched parts it was flawless. My final setup on that bike was a SRAM 10spd mtb double crankset, Truvativ 42/28 rings, SRAM chain, Suntour 11-36 11spd cassette, with a Wolftooth road link. Never missed a shift, and I rode that bike through all kinds of shitty conditions. I’ve had multiple iterations of Ultegra, including the latest (mechanical) version on my current road bike, have GRX 600 on my gravel bike, but nothing beats that 105.
105 5800 truly was an amazing groupo, I’d have to agree and probably say that’s up there for me as well.
Tiagra 4700 RD, cassette, chain and BB. Shimanoo 5800 105 crankset. Dura ace shifters and brakes.
I have Tiagra on my bike for two years now and claimed it "Groupset of the people". I also race,so...I got the bug to make it better for that. Mostly weight. Crankset is much heavier than 105 but I replaced 50/34 stock for 52/36 Absolute Black and saved 150gr, 11-34 cassette is 370gr but SRAM 1070 11-33 is 290,Ultegra 6700 11-28 is 250gr. I wondered what I'm leaving in brake department with mechanical brakes. Than I did something stupid and bought gravel bike with GRX 400. Switched levers, brakes, RD from that bike and 105 FD. Sold gravel bike with Tiagra. It is great groupset, for sporty rider I say go for lighter crankset and cassette and hydraulic brakes. For kids and women there is smaller lever version 4725. It's better than DA 7800, I don't miss 11.
4700 is also compatible with GRX400.
I have a bike that started life as a 4700'd hybrid, that is now a 4700 Franken-gravelly thing with drop bars.
Currently set up with: GRX400 rear with a 11-40 (and YES it works and shifts perfectly), a 4700 48/34 crankset with 4720 hydro levers with Ultegra BR-RS785 post mount calipers.
I have friends who ride 105'd bikes.....4700 is WAY more durable
RX400 is also compatible with R7000 shifters. A have R7000 (hydro) shifter, 11 speed cassette and RX400 rear mech. Works perfect. It was cheep upgrade from road+ to gravel.
Sora with 105 brakes is best budget option, can use 9sp shimano mtb rear mechs if you need more range
I'm still using 22 year old Ultegra 6500 on my main road bike. No complaints, everything works nicely.
Fellow bike mechanic here - 4700 works really well. One of the best mechanical shifting/hydraulic brifters Shimano has ever made are the small hands version (ST-4725). It has smoother shifting than the normal sized 11sp hydro brifters, and the levers have a wider blade which is much more ergonomic. I have one gripe with the Tiagra 4700 - which is at the small ring of their triple crankset where Shimano invented a new standard for the chainring (asymmetrical 73 BCD). That 4700 gruppo with small hands levers will age like fine wine....
10 years ago I bought an Ultegra equipped road bike. When the RH lever broke I replaced with Tiagra shifters (the last iteration with external gear cables) and 105 f/r ten speed and the differnce is like night and day. The Ultegra ran with a clickety-clack, it needed frequent indexing, and the shifts weren't great. The new set-up runs almost silently, the changes are more positive and it rarely needs re-indexing. I don't know about electronic, but I believe the omptimum was reached with 10 speed, beyond which the tolerances are too tight.
I plan to upgrade to tiagra groupset, from claris. Tiagra offers better performance & some weight reduction. Thanks for sharing video.
I don’t know… if affordability is a key factor to determining “the people’s groupset, why stop at Tiagra? Why not Sora??
Sure it’s a 9spd group set but it comes in both 2x9 and 3x9. With road levers and flat bar triggers. I know bike shop mechanics who have installed Sora group sets on their bikes, but plan on skipping Tiagra for 105.
Compatibility? Tiagra derailleurs being compatible with 11 spd shifters isn’t anything I would brag about. That would mean mixing with a 105 or Ultegra component. Why not just use those as your groupset instead?
These days you can get 9 or 10spd components from older ultegra and 105 sets easily. Sure they may be used but they’re still really good.
The only advantage I really see here is that Tiagra is available. I have never seen Tiagra components out of stock. But for Tiagra’s compatibility issue, usually the best option to go with once you pick up one Tiagra part is to go full Tiagra.
Sure 105 has gone up in price, but once you have a component, whether 11 or 12 spd, it should be compatible with 105, ultegra, or Dura-ace of the same speed.
With that said, 105 feels like an invitation to more cycling adventures, an on ramp or a crossroad. Tiagra just feels more like a detour.
I'm open to correction here but I'm sure I read one time that Tiagra 4700 10 speed levers and rear mechs have compatibility problems with other Shimano 10 speed groupsets. For example , if I trash a 105 10 speed rear mech I cannot replace it with the cheaper Tiagra 4700 rear mech because its pull ratio does not match the 105 10 speed levers. Is this correct?
Yes that is correct, older shimano 10 speed has a different pull ratio than the 4700 but Tiagra does use the same pull ratio as R7000 and R8000 so you technically can mix and match those.
When I upgraded from 105 5600 to Tiagra 4700, I forgot to take cable pull ratio into account, so now I've ended up with not just the ST-4700 and FD-4700, I have the RD-4700 too. Good thing the rear derailleur was in the same shop I got the front derailleur from, only the STI levers are new.
I have the gravel cousin a GT Grade with GRX 400. 46 30 FSA chainring. 11 36 cassette so 500% gear range. No idea how to service the hydraulic brakes. However they do perform well,
Most entry level road bikes come with 10 speed compatible hubs. So if you want to upgrade to 11 speed 105. You will need a new 11 speed wheel set or rebuild your rear wheel with new hubs.
right, you would need to eventually once you get the rest of the group but if you mix the 105 11 with 4700 you have to limit the mech to 10 speed for it to work and not throw the derailleur into the wheel. Side note, my brother trashed a 2003 Bianchi Veloce by not keeping up with the maintenance and he threw the derailleur into the rear wheel. I will never forgive him for that lol
Use an 11 speed 105 with my Tiagra simply because I like the way the Shadow mech sticks out less. Total success. Actually runs quieter than original too. Having had all the 10/11 speed groupsets on various bikes, I feel 10 speed is peak mechanical. Just that bit less fussy and the chains last a touch longer.
I replaced the microshift transmission of my rc 520 with tiagra 4700 transmission (everything, shifters included), as I don't need 11 or 12 speeds an I'm pretty happy with it. The cassette is 11-34 and my previous one was 11-32 so it's also little nice upgrade.
to me the current 105 seems like an epic flop so far. Literally a month after the release i saw ton of it on massive sales. 12 speed has nothing to do with people lol.
The thing is, at the lower end (such as alivio/acera and sora/tiagra), there isn't much difference in cost to manufacture the various groupset components, so makes no sense to keep them
Especially now that the Cues drop bar shifters have been all but confirmed. Everything below 105 will now be in the cues eco system which I don’t think is necessarily a bad thing.
I use a XT 9 speed rear Derailleur with 10 speed brifters. I get the long cage, with large rear cassette, and drop bars. Makes a very flexible drive train.
Just subbed to your channel love the content
My gravel bike has GRX 400 and 10 speed Tiagra shifter I’m really impressed with them 😊 ❤ Pete
My older Tiagra derailleur stopped working correctly this year (after 10 years of heavy use) because of the different pull ratios of newer tiagra I couldn’t replace it with a new tiagra derailleur but my bikeshop had an old 10 speed ultegra derailleur lying around which the cleaned up and fitted. It’s actually improved the shifting. Who needs more than 10speed?
Even your Tiagra shifters (I guess ST-4600?) finally give up the ghost, there will be still lots of compatible derailleur lying about, such as Sora, Claris and all the 9-speed MTB derailleurs. I guess it will be a really long time before 10-speed becomes totally obsolete.
Just reuse R7000 parts to make the "new" Tiagra 4800(or R5000), keep the silver option and rim brakes, then we still have people's group with minimal efforts by Shimano. But maybe there won't be Tiagra and lower tiers anymore, and a road CUES ecosystem will replace them all.
Awesome love your videos keep up the good work
105 R7000 is a good option. It’s still for sale.
Yeah definitely agree and I even found a really nice bike with R7000 on an outlet close out I’m really considering.
Shimano lost me as a customer when they stopped production of rim brake mechanical ultegra and 105.
i bought a revolt 1 with grx rd but tiagra fd. no issues shifts everytime i use it
Yes. And second hand 10 speed dura ace wheelsets, say 7800, or rs 80, will cost you 200 bucks (I'm talking rim brakes). 400 to 600 for a capable groupset and an awesome wheelset, plus 600 for a good condition second hand frameset, and voilà
Hi, sorry for late comment, but i bought used local brand 2015 mtb for 60$ and its heavy. and then i've changed the groupset with Tiagra 4700 flatbar right shifter, cassete and rd. And for the front, i put deore 3x crankset, fd and the shifter. Its looks cool, the reason i dont use the tiagra crankset its because its to big for me and i dont like the mtb rd and shifters looks. Well,.... The groupset are more expensive than the bike itself.. lol but i like my bike
Only buy the Tiagra shifters, then use a 10 speed Microshift rear deraillieur and aliexpress CVR crankset (with steel axle) to get the weight to 105/Ultegra territory.
The groupset of the poeple ...No really, I have a 2x8 Microshift groupset and it's fine. I'd love t upgrade to a 2x10 Tiagra. I would win on all fronts... Although one question... can I install a crank based powermeter? (quick Google says that as long as it uses the Shimano’s Hollowtech II interface something like a 4iii or stages pm should work fine... )
Yeah you could definitely go that route or just get a 3rd party power metered crank. Might run into some wonky issues with 10 speed chain rings so maybe power meter pedals might be an option to look into as well. I’ll do some more research and get back to you cause now I’m curious about that
Uh…. I just bought a 4700 group set to rebuild a steel bike
Very cool video, thanks man.
I built a flat bar bike with a steel genesis frame and forks it has rim brakes and a mix and match of Shimano 105 and tiagra 4700 parts, the tiagra 10speed flat bar shifters are really smooth and work fine with the 105 mechs overall this bike is simplicity and I give the tiagra 4700 a big thumbs up
since you were looking at gravel bikes i believe you never mentioned /compared grx groupset
good call out! yeah definitely should have taken a look at it against GRX, luckily I might just be getting a GRX equipped bike soon so I could actually get to do a hands on comparison.
Let’s hope that Shimano makes STI levers that are compatible with CUES
Cues will be the groupset of the people apparently
9:45 Nope. Shimano Cues will eliminate our chances for 11 speed Tiagra
Off topic, but I'm pretty sure Tiagra is pronounced "tee-ah-gra," not "tie-ah-gra." Otherwise I totally agree with you.
I am a fan of 4700. I should state that I have bikes with other, higher-end groups. But 4700 works just about as well. The fact that it’s 10-speed doesn’t bother me at all. Indeed, I would not want to have to fiddle with mechanical 12-speed; it’s just a bit too delicate to index.
It’s telling, however, that Shimano has done nothing to upgrade Tiagra in years. While one could argue that 400-level GRX is actually an upgraded Tiagra, 4700 remains unchanged. Rumors are, of course, that Tiagra will be phased out when CUES goes drop bar. That would be a shame.
Yeah we’ll see, 4700 has been around since 2015 with no real changes so I’m curious to see if they lean into Cues or bump Tiagra to 11.
My Cube Attain from 2019 has most 20k on it and never had problems with the groupset. It's an amazing groupset. The downsides are the 10 speed compatability problems and the front mech is just so bad compared to 105 or ultegra, its just dated.
Or Sora 2X9! Flatbarshifters, Oldschool-Cranks, GS for widerange or SS for corncob (14-25 🤫)...
Everytime a customer brings in a Sora equipped bike that has the more modern R3000 I'm always really pleasantly surprised by it. Pretty solid components and that rear mech is more than happy to do its job well. And the entire group can be bought for like $200 so it's really a pretty good option. I probably wouldn't ever build a "race bike" with it but I'd be more than happy with it on a little around town bike.
I went from Tiagra 4600 to 4700 on my road bike. Still waiting on the R6000(?) upgrade.
In the near future 4700 will be folded into the Cues family which I’m not totally upset about especially with the ease of compatibility and switching around components in that ecosystem. Once shimano fully releases the Cues drop bar shifters that’ll be game over for Claris through Tiagra.
@@dobbscycleworks did not know about CUES. They aren't far off from doing that either. Claris, Sora, and Tiagra have already been dropped from the main part of the US site.
Shame to see them go, Sora and Tiagra were my bread and butter of junior racing. But as a mechanic, I really can’t be mad about the insane compatibility of the Cues drive trains.
@@dobbscycleworks I may upgrade my shifters to 5800 or 6800. The Tiagra 4700 RD is indexed for the 11spd before the RX000 lines came out. I'm not ready for a new bike just yet. I already have a 6800 FD to handle the 52T.
Why not just get the Sora ?
or even better the modern Claris ?
Also not bad group sets by any means but when I’ve tested between Claris/Sora/Tiagra there is a definite notable increase in performance with Tiagra over the other too. Like I said Claris and Sora are still great but I think Tiagra just sits in the perfect place between performance and affordable intro.
105 R7000 is far better than any Tiagra version. Still available and cheap.
still available cheap cheap cheap, very true. I actually found a really nice bike I might pull the trigger on thats an outlet close out with105 7000
@@dobbscycleworks Bought one today for 280 EUR
hahahahaha the end of the video was awesome!
So why are people swapping to SRAM now?
Cheapest weight savers are chain and cassette. Ultegra chain and 105 cassette is a bargain upgrade.
And stay away from Disc brakes in road bikes. 😉
Oh and when your tiagra nameplate breaks off they're like 10 bucks on performancebikes. Just a thing they do I guess.
Yes, the nameplates are the most annoying drawback on the Tiagra shifters, I've already had to replace both, 😂 I've had them shifters for a couple of years now, so not very durable! But I do some gravel riding in the summer, so the extra vibration isn't kind to the little plastic thingies...
Well, so in my search to upgrade my bike (current bike is an Olmo built up NR in 1983), I had decided after the Dura Ace/Ultegra crankset fiasco that I might downgrade to 105. Now it seems I might downgrade to Tiagra. See how much money you've saved me already?
Oh, and nothing wrong with your video editing.
Is 105 better than ultegra, and is ultegra better than DuraAce…and so on….
I m riding 105 11-speed and I m happy.
Cheers
Great video.. despite me being SRAM FORCE AXS 1x guy. 🤦🏻♂️
Don’t worry, I’m coming back to SRAM soon for road lol. I’m thinking Force 22 mechanical, nice and light and still not too bad to work on at home.
Paint colours ? In agreement with you there, there are some shocking multi coloured designs out there.
This fucking groupset. I ordered tiagra 4700 10 speed shifters and a 105 10 speed derailleur before I knew better. The fact that I got it to shift as good as it did was a testament to my dedication to get something to work. They dont work together, nearly at all. In case you didnt know. Pull ratios.
Yep, and oddly enough it is the same pull ratio as shimano’s 11 speed r7000 and r8000 so you can technically interchange parts of those groups with Tiagra. It’s so strange and yet I still love it lol.
GRX. You are not using the 50 well if you need the 30.
Why do you think that Tiagra is less durable than 105?
12 up cassette and you'll never miss the extra cog
BRING BACK SILVER COMPONENTS
For freaking real!
Tiagra has always been more of the people than 105 - sorry
Not if you go back 20-25 years ago. 105 was above entry level (Sora) but so much more affordable than Ultegra and Dura-Ace.
Real peoples cassette gearing too, please ! Who is strong enough to pulled a 11,12 or even a13 sometimes on the flat. Merckx did is hour record on 52×14, and recognised after having suffered like hell ! If this gear is enough for him for 1 hour , it should be more than enough for me for 1 minute ! Please stopped giving Ferrari transmission for all thoses honda civic motors , is it to hard to figure this thing out !?!
Step 1... buy a tiagra disk bike.
Step 2... change out the rear derailleur and crankset.
That is all the steps
Well, i paid 1000€ for 105 DI2, so you should compare more realistic prices..
which is why I do clarify that there will be deals that you can get them cheaper but I was specifically referring to the MSRP price.
@@dobbscycleworks and referring to the MSRP is BS in my opinion 👋🏻
@@TnFruit you're entitled to that, but I don't understand how stating the MSRP at launch and then stating you can find it cheaper now is any different than you saying you got it cheaper. the MSRP at launch is an unchangeable fact, for the rest of time that price will be what it cost when it was first introduced so how can I reference a specific number cheaper than that when that is subject to change based on retailer and region on a whim? If we want to discuss "realistic" prices, then the launch MSRP is the only realistic one because it is the only one that will never change.
@@dobbscycleworks well, you didn't make this Video at launch, you did it yesterday. So, in my opinion, you should use a realistic price. I think the MSRP sounds better in your "comparison" to get more clicks. 🫵🏻
If tiagra goes 11 speed or is replaced by a road cues 11 speed then maybe it will be the new Groupset of the people
CLARIS R2000 is the TRUE groupset of the people HANDS DOWN 😅
I just got a new Tiagra bike, my previous one was Ultegra. There's pretty much nothing in it for anyone 'normal'.
oh apart from 1 or 2 extra gears.
105 is much better lighter better shifting etc. Just use RIM BRAKE and 11 speed.
RIP Tiagra, Cues is taking over now
Indeed, we knew it was coming but I’ll still miss Tiagra. Granted, it’ll still be around for a while until the supply of replacement parts dries up but we even see Tiagra from 2008 regularly still functioning great so who knows. Maybe it will still be around with those who love it for a while.
Sram Apex AXS is the real Peoples groupset.
How so? Does it have 1x,2x,3x variant? Mechanical and hydro brakes? Flawless shifting and cheap parts available?
The Execs at campagnolo burn 105 on their alter to Molech.
Dude, this video is like a year out of date. Even GCN made a video on the exact same topic when it was still relevant. In the last month I have seen full R7150 groupset for 950 euros brand new and R7020 for 550, also brand new. Tiagra isn't that much cheaper and your chain will jump all over the place because that old rear mech has zero tension. I've seen used R8020 cheaper than new Tiagra. There are so many better options.
Since a few years I don't really care about the samurai any more. The communists are already there in terms of quality.
No it isn’t
No
Let me save you 12 minutes. No no it is not better than 105. Is it good enough? Yes probably for the vast majority of people Tiagra is just fine and will get you from A to B.
What a jerk.
Downtube shifta crew in da house.🦾🦾🦾