Linear Rails are they better than smooth rods?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 พ.ค. 2024
- Today we compare linear rails and rods, and how they can improve the quality of your printer's motion.
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Just to correct the mistake. The LM8UU bearings DO circulate in the plastic housings.
Beat me too it... by like a year. lol
Several mistakes. Linear rails are NOT guaranteed to be flat, even the high end ones. They're intended to be clamped against a machined reference edge. Linear rods, at least from reputable vendors, ARE guaranteed to have whatever level of straightness is specified. An alternative to expensive precision ground mounting surfaces for linear rails is the well established technique of "replication." Using an existing high-precision standard to create a similarly precise feature. A good engineer's straight edge and some metal-filled low-shrink epoxy will achieve it.
"There is no..." *plate wiggles* "Little to no movement---"
lul, she'll be right mate 👌
No movement at the rails I’m sure he meant... the hotbed is on springs with these little desktop printers so it’ll have a certain amount of vertical movement regardless, just no sideways movement if you add one of these rails. The upgrade is worth doing on this style of printer, but you can get away with using just a single rail and still see the benefits. If you add a second rail, the two rails must be true to each other.
@@SWhite-hp5xq But they aren't on the springs they are on a threaded screw. The spring is just to maintain tension on the thread pitch to stop it moving due to vibration.
@@miked5444 not to mention the wiggle if I remember right was twisting lol
@@miked5444 its on both... both work together to make the supports for the hot bed. remove either one and you'll have issues.
I came in late on your rail upgrade. I’ve made that upgrade and I was able to use the original hot end mount. The mod I made was on the 10s-Pro. I’ll do a review of it next week and put it up on you tube. Thanks later
Thank you.
I'm watching this video though, and thinking "why would you NOT lubricate a metal baring?"
Makes me feel more confident about building one.
At 2:12 , you are wrong about the motion of the ball bearings because yes they move around like in the linear rail ball bearing, also those ball bearing are design to move in the linear direction , they are not made to rotate in the axial motion. For the linear rod, you can also try the bronze graphite self lubricate bushing. They move more easy then the bearing.
I was saying same, those tiny balls have endles loop guide
The kind he has don't recirculate, the balls are in little pockets in the plastic liner so he is actually correct. In addition, since they aren't recirculating bearings they CAN allow for rotational motion.
LazyH-Online some people don’t realize how many various styles of rails exist. That said any round rail is going to be inferior to flat square rails.
I understand that the block type C and H are different shapes, but is there a benefit to one of these over the other? the screw mount orientation looks similar to me and I am struggling to find info on the differences
As a brand spanking newbie to 3d, is there a more accurate switch for the axis? Every print I seem to have to adjust the hotbed.
My friend has changed to H-Win Linear Rails on his Ender 3 and there is little difference in the quality of prints as he had the Ender 3 dialled in as good as it could be before swapping to Linear Rails, for what he paid for them he could have bought another printer.
Very helpful thank you.
is there a link to the made conversion block? is it on thingyverse?
could you use it for the X axis? i have a printer i want to switch it to the X but can't figure out the logistics
what's the point of having stiff linear rails if what you build on top of it is not stiff at all. you wiggle the whole build plate around like crazy and say it doesn't wiggle? if stiffness is a problem just use bigger rods. your comparison is complete nonsense.
Because rods in general suck. Frankly I’d never use a 2 pillar printer anyways but in comparison my 4 post 18 x 24 x 18 printer could machine parts if a spindle was installed it is so rigid. More rigidity means better prints. Fix the mechanicals then work on the tuning.
@@glennedward2201 Just gotta add big ass angles the 2 posts
Yeah, and using linear rails "floating" like this is no better than rods anyway. The advantage of rails is that they have screw holes all along them so you can mount them to a big stiff beam.
Any details on the bed mod? I want to modify my big CR10-S5 and could use some info
Around 6:16 the screen on that printer lights up - this is really bad. When moving the bed by hand, the stepper motor can act as a generator, sending a bit of power in the wrong direction. This can result in a blown stepper driver, which is as good as a bricked mother board in a CR-10 since the drivers are integrated into the main board. The take away here is to never move the axis by hand when they are plugged into the control box. If you have to, do so very slowly, and don't plug or unplug steppers or sensors when the control box is powered on.
Meanwhile, I have powered on a printer swinging the bed back and front, changed some settings and saved them.
Can confirm, I burned a driver dropping the y axis on my laser when moving it.
The reason why the circular rails flex is because they are mounted on the ends. The linear rails shown also flex. They are mean to be bolted down to a stable base. This will make the complete structure firm and stable.
There is a high percentage of thumbs down for this video because of the significant errors.
Can I throw an idea for an alternative for lead screw and it gets rid of all lash, and no lube needed
Size money or Ellis back and get for the CR10 and where can I buy it from
Work vasiline also for greasing or what kind of grease should i buy (lithium as you sad, but which product is better, worse for greasing)?
And do I have to clean the linear rails and grease them with new grease?
Yep, white lithium, clean before with iso
Indeed, the chinese made rails and carriages need torough cleaning and greasing before use. I don't know what they do with them, but there is a lot of junk in the storage oil they use. I also use isopropyl alcohol to degrease them and then I use very fine oil. Probably lithium or teflon grease is better suited and kills some of the noise too.
Was i the only one that cried when he pulled the hot bed back and the LCD screen lit up
I know it's been 2 years but yes.... I cried too
@@sticky_ricebowl what does that mean?
@@marklynch1305 so if the screen is getting powered (the lcd lighting up) it means you're applying a reverse current which can basically fry sensitive components on the main board
What is the best grease for these?
The rails are machined when they are screwed down. If they are not screwed down they will bow (slightly) and you will loose a lot of the advantages of using rails.
Absolutely. Heck it would be even beneficial to screw them to something like 2020 extrusion to stiffen base frame. Not that it would be ideal , but still better than having them slouch in midair secured from their ends.
Depends how much much effort they put into the machining if it will flex after marching. Buying quality brands would the answer
If you put enough pressure on the rail to bow it, your profiles would start to bend.
@@Hathorr1067 As I said originally, the rails are machined bolted down. When they are not bolted down they bow. This is not a matter of what brand you buy, they are all done the same. It is not a 200 thousandths(.200) bow we are talking about, but sub ten thousandths(.010).
@@bradquinn4161 They're going to follow whatever profile they're bolted to regardless. If you're base is "perfectly" flat, the rail will follow suit. There's little room for distortion on extremely flat mating surfaces.
He's trying to twist the rod in the linear bearing and then says "I can feel some binding". Yeah... linear bearings are not designed to twist at all. Just like the linear guide block, they are only designed to move along the rail, not to spin on it. You feel a lot of friction if you try to twist them. But the Linear Guides are much stiffer, more accurate and more expensive.
Nice video - thank you for sharing your opnion on that subject 👍
The fact that you can touch and move your finger along than linear block without it moving on the rail means, it's not moving smoothly at all and it is binding.
he did say that was a cheaper product and it had come apart and lost a few balls
@@theq4602Oh thanks. I'd missed that. They're easily replaced.
There are soooo many things wrong with this video that I'm surprised it only has a 40% downvote ratio.
41.97080291970803% as of 8:38 A.M. CST,10/1/19.I'm still undecided,and haven't voted yet,lol
Linear rods also circulate their ball bearings, they don't roll in place. Push them gently with and you'll see
Parts list and links
I'm brand new to 3d printing just bought my first printer ... it's actually still in shipping. got a sidewinder X1 well glad to find your chanle hope to be around a fair bit.
I'm about to anger a lot of people. Linear Rails are designed for heavy loads that need somewhat accurate placement/ movement. Linear rods are for high accuracy movements and alignments. I'm generalizing a lot here do to how deep a subject each use case is. But in the use case of 3D printing the only advantage either will provide is a more reliable flat movement of the build plate. The over all benefits of these parts is ZERO do to what they are connecting to. A lot more changes need to be made to the heated bed to get any significant benefits. Modifying the eccentric nuts with a shoulder bolt would have the same benefit over all if the nuts are any good.
6:16 free energy hahaha
I have only constructive comments...maybe you could drop your opening music by -20dB and raise your voice volume by, say +8dB, you would make a better impact on us.
Absolutely.there are LOTS of uploaders who have NO idea of what "normalization" is.....Hell,even Pandora has no idea,lol
Can you provide links for all the parts I wanna update my cr10s
Do linear rails need to be lubed, too?
Yes, absolutely.
its a same video which we saw few days ago - Déjà vu for sure :-)
The other one was deleted somehow and I had to re-upload it
People who 'don't know any better' shouldn't make these videos and those that don't know any better will learn nothing useful from this. If you need to know how these things work, look elsewhere. This guy doesn't know, hasn't taken the trouble to find out and is misinforming you.
YES!
This guy should not be pretending to teach people about a subject he is grossly ignorant about.
Totally agree with you. This guy should educate himself first, before teaching others
what did he say that was wrong? he explained how the bearing block works with the loop of bearing on each side correctly.
if your really slow and careful you can take the rail block off without loosing you balls. they are suppose to have a guide holding them in but it can get loose easily. sometimes they dont have the bearing guides. whatever its called.
really its a pretty simple thing no need to read a book on then and write a 500page essay. then have some collage professor in mechanical engineering grade it.
@@darkshadowsx5949 At approx 2:16 he contrasts the round bar variant of linear rails with the Hiwin style rails by saying that the balls do not circulate but 'roll in place' this is patently wrong, they recirculate in exactly the same manner as the other linear rails. In fact, if they were captive as he suggests, they wouldn't be able to roll at all, no travel, no roll. Pretty basic stuff. Since this erroneous assumption is the main basis for his suggesting that the Hiwin style rails are far superior his argument falls flat on its face. Both styles are linear rails. Although I've dismantled some round rail bearing blocks, you don't need to do so to confirm this, just take a block off and gently push the balls with a pencil or something similar. You'll see they roll along in their groove and 'dissapear' being replaced by others from the same set 'appearing' behind the ones you are pushing. I can see two advantages in using Hiwin style rails over the round ones. 1 because the cross section is roughly 2x1 you can get better rigidity of you mount them with the broader part vertical (think of the beams that support floor boards). 2 on very long rails you can add further support by attaching the rail to some other structure, not possible with the round chappies. Main disadvantages of the Hiwin style (unless it's an actual Hiwin) are - 1. maintenance, the flexible dam that's supposed to sweep the rail and prevent dust getting into the block is not very good on the cheap copies. 2. It's the luck of the draw whether you get a block that has a full set of balls in it. 3. Also, it's luck again if the balls are the right size for the block and rail. If you want an informed view on which rails to use and why look up m.th-cam.com/users/ThomasSanladerer you'll get unbiased, educated info from him.
I agree. A lot of his videos are like this....incomplete...I like his ideas... but ...those chrome rod/bearings in are many high end printers, such as Ultimakers and Raise3D, etc etc
Déjà vu 😆 great vid again and mod 👍😆
Nice brand new rails and a blown main board after you lit that screen up about 6 times
I have the Ender 3 Max printer. Just some comments because I am frustrated and disappointed.... I still think, after about one year, I got a Lemon printer. The frame in not level and square. I have tried straightening the frame for the X and Z Axis. And I got it close. Now my Y axis is giving me problems. The wheels are just to tight and the bed wobbles/ flexes as the wheels try to aline in the groves as I push on the bed. So then I end up having to tighten the wheel down to tight. On my Tevo Tornado printer the bed is nice and smooth. Although I was getting layer shift issues on my TEVO way back. I have since discovered that a layer shift issuer is slightly loose belts. So I am going back to my TEVO to try that printer again. everyone should get belt Tensioners as an immediate upgrade. I am in the process of upgrading my Tevo to get it back in service. I am thinking of upgrading my Ender 3 Max to Linear rails if that would help. I do think I should just junk this printer frame and start a new. Just about everything else except for the frame and bed has been replaced. One final tip: If you test your Filament Nozzle extrusion and it looks good but nothing seems to come out of the Nozzle when Printing your first layer it is because your nozzle is to close to the bed. Use Babystepping to adjust the Nozzle height, UP, until you get a good first layer. That was a very key tip in my learning process as to why I upgraded my Ender in the first place. I also installed a EZABL probe. I keep throwing upgrades to try to fix different issues.
Those round rail bearings are terrible for rigidity and motion. They are merely a low cost option that gets the job done. Do you want a Ferrari or a Honda? The performance differences are clear. The holes should be every 40mm but they could vary per manufacturer. The closer together they are the better and absolutely use every hole to fasten them down so they sit flat or they will likely bow up where a fastener is missing.
This is a slight unfair comparison of the two types of linear rails, your bearing block on the profiled rail has recirculating bearings, whereas your example in the round rod does not. They do make recirculating round shaft bearings, which won't cause that rough binding or hang ups. Certainly the linear profiled rail is going to be inherently better, as its also supported, whereas the rod can go unsupported.
...is that the end of the video??..,Yes it is
...do I want you to smash the like button ??...Yes I do
...will I see you the next time??...Yes I will
...have you forgotten to take your meds??...Yes you have
Cable management, Cable management, Cable management ;-) but keep on tinkering
We all love the anal retentive cable manager. I purposefully leave mine like cobwebs to annoy them.
At 8:04 and 8:11 you fed your screen with some current as you moved your table, I hear that's a bad thing, wonder if it really as bad as I've heard.
it can be really bad. i fried a board once doing that.
nah, if you don't move it too fast it won't have a problem on cheapo drivers, I would be careful with more expensive ones like TMC, you never want that 1% chance there
No video who explains in steps the upgrade ?
This video was not meant to be a tutorial. I will be doing one soon.
@@TheFirstLayer sir can you show us the printing quality?
god it hurts so bad everytime he over accelerates the axis and backfeeds power into the system
3D printer with linear rails that does not even required weight is a stupid upgrade and a waste of money. Linear Rails are common on CNC router machine having the facts of milling a material especially aluminum required rigidity and stiffness of all the axis..
Seriously, do you know _anything_ of which you speak? And speak and speak and speak and speak and speak...
16-minute video with 60 seconds of info, if I'm being generous, with absolutely no empirical proof one way or the other.
Useless video, harsh but true.
They are so heavy to. In a core xy that matters!
I broke your Evil Curse with LIKE# 667... 🙃
Man, you tell me one thing and show exact opposite - that’s textbook confirmation bias and denial.
I need to know what size rod and linear bearing that is because I don't understand where to turn to tell me because you're not saying what it is what size that is for the sheraton asked you just explaining how good it functions when I need the whole answer or you just cheese and someone to get coffee that's a badd way to get unsubscribed
There is no question about
Linear rails are better
You dont even have to make a video about it
Scott Parker i will not write an explanatio, it would take way to long
But you can go and check out a video from a guy called:
Marco Reps
He has done a video on the cetus
If that isn’t enough, then you can ask me again. I will write a answer with many arguments
For now this should be enough
Have a nice day good sir!
@Scott Parker no its not
But making a video about linear rails and comparing them to alternatives is useless
A waste of time
You shouldnt have to compare them
They are better
And thats fact
Here it was a lat of talk :-/
Help!! A vampire !
Both implementations are stupid. For top end, tolerant of 200C, look at ceramic coated aluminum with frelon bearings ~$70 per 400mm. Cheaper end, tolerant of 65C, look at polymer bearings on plain aluminum ~$30 per 400mm. No need to have these complex ball bearing solutions, they are the same price/cheaper than good polymer rails and are worse for 3d printing. If you get the $17/400mm cheap Chinese linear rails you have to take them apart and remove the protective film and re-grease them with good grease to get them running smooth. Shitty way to save $100 on a 3D printer if you ask me