If you're not mentioning England as a reference to the Falklands War, please remember that there are plenty of Scots and Welsh in the British Army and many of them are proud to be British too!
The Ambassador of Argentina to Ireland sadly passed away during Covid. It was difficult to repatriate her body at the time, so she was buried in Brown’s home town of Foxford, Co.Mayo.
@@TheLastAngryMan01 Wow, I wouldn't say it's a nice story to read since involves a deceased person but it's a pretty poetical one if you think about it.
We are about 1M Irish descendants in Argentina. I went to an Irish school in Argentina and my house was Munster. I had a thick Irish accent as a child and was taught the 32 counties as well as the lives of many Irish Saints. Saint Columba, Columban, Kirean and Brendan. My family came from Ireland right after the potato famine in 1851 and my grandfather was a Grandson of 4 Irish born Grandparents as many of them were from Meath, West Meath and Offaly. As noted in the video indeed the immigrants were quite well educated and all became very wealthy farmers in 10's of thousands of acres.
Just to illustrate how many we are in the last two world cups 2 players had Irish roots Tata Brown and Alexis MacAlister. We also have one of the candidates for President in October is of Irish ascent as well Patricia Bullrich and a former president Edelmiro Farrell.
Eduardo Coghlan the writer of the 1000 page genealogy book of the Irish in Argentina was my neighbour living in the 8th floor of the same apartment building in Recoleta
Speak for yourself,my grandma was of irish descent but that's it. I don't 'love' people because of their nationality, that's a rather obtuse view on human beings.
Met a guy from Argentina in Galway years ago how was researching his family three, his great great grandmother had emigrated to Argentina from Galway and he told me that when she arrived in Argentina she only spoke Irish and no English at all. I found out conversation fascinating.
I'm argentine and live in a small town a 114 km from Buenos Aires where there is a large irish community and most of them don't even speak english. Irish are known here for having adopted the local ways and traditions and blended right away. They tend to see them selves as "very argentine". I think that's the case of irish people in small towns or middle class irish. I guess the wealthy irish may have kept the irish ways much more
Lastima q el buen trato q les damos no es retribuido,años atras cuando argentinos con ascendencia irlandesa estaban buscando obtener la ciudadanía, diplomáticos irlandeses los sacaron cagando. Tenemos una vision bastante romantica del inmigrante, sobre todo blanco y europeo, mientras el marron- latino-sirio-palestino-senegales? fuera fuera! no, Jorge?
@@Kitiwake From THIS government? well, that's strange since it's an oppressive one, we are being currently ruled by a nutter, clueless corrupt. Also, wonder if there's something similar for the argentine pensionists who want to live in Ireland...
My brother and I studied in Irish schools here in Buenos Aires, although our family is English Anglican from London, I remember the Irish dance classes and all the celebrations we had, and my still group of friends .
The Irish in Argentina with Dr Patrick Speight #History #Ireland #Argentina 0922am 28.824 and we wonder why Uruguay and the argies are so adept, naturally so, at rugby....
Well-known Argentinian people with Irish blood: Admiral Brown, Che Guevara Lynch, Guillermo Patricio Kelly, Norma Kennedy, Rodolfo Walsh, Lucas Lennon.
Fascinating. I had read about Irish emigration from Longford / Roscommon to Argentina. I’m an old Spanish student from 1970s. My Spanish teacher was touched by Evita Peron story and I was a student during the Argentina 78 football era. Argentina fascinates me to this day. I love to hear Argentine accents and words when I travel in Spain. I was thinking of the welch communities in Argentina when you spoke about the Irish. Just wondered if you have any knowledge of church of Ireland or Irish Presbyterianism communities in Argentina. Very interesting to hear your research. Very enjoyable. Thanks.
@@lady.stardust-tn3um Nunca la Argentina fué tan próspera como entonces. Nos guste o no es la realidad. 5ta potencia mundial, tengo Agenda Hachette de 1939.
Argentina estaba alineada al Reino Unido y por décadas fue nuestro principal cliente, pero de ahí a ser colonia hay una gran diferencia, acá había una comunidad alemana importante y no se entró en las guerras mundiales.
@@gonzalogarcia6240 No fueron nuestros "clientes". Dónde hubo la única sucursal de Harrods fuera de Londres? Mueblería Maple, Mapping & Webb, Bazar Wright, Burberry's, Casa Tow, etc etc. Se manejó por la izquierda hasta 1945. Casi cada barrio de Buenos Aires tiene un "barrio inglés" paralelo al ferrocarril que fue británico, algunos también sus links. Somos unos de los pocos países que tiene la costumbre de la hora del té. Los deportes británicos que se juegan en todos lados y que dominamos (cricket sólo en algunos colegios británicos). Ya casi no va quedando la gente que vivió esa Argentina que fue profundamente anglófila. A los más jóvenes les queda sólo el resentimiento de 1982. Sería bueno abrir los oídos y escuchar a los historiadores. Nos ayudaría a entender mejor a esta Argentina.
Mi amiga es de apellido Murray, su bisabuelo proviene de Irlanda. Amo a los irlandeses,tenemos mucho en común, nuestro fanatismo por nuestro país y orgullo. Mi hermano iba a un colegio irlandés de curas irlandeses, que aún existe en la ciudad donde nací. Me encanta cuando festejan el día de San Patricio, hoy en día también se juntan con argentinos en un bar irlandes de Buenos Aires. ❤
I saw a documentary on the Irish Argentinians and they were absolutely beautiful looking people. Blue or green eyes long brownish hair , olive skin . Just magnificent.
One of the gratest hero of our independence was admiral Guillermo Brown, from Ireland. He fight braverly agains the spanish Empire from 1811 to 1818, mainly in the River Plate scenario. And beat them many times. 10years later he fougth against the Brazilian Empire and beat them many times.
Arturo KENNY distinguished himself and his country of birth, Argentina, as Olympic Polo Champions in 1924, in Paris! The first Gold Medal in our history.
Thank you Dr. Patrick Spaige and NVTV for this interview. I would like to read Dr. Spaige's book but I live in Argentina and I'm not sure I could find it here. A special thanks for mentioning the Palatine's massacre (as we call it in Argentina) maybe not the Irish community don't want to remember that but argentinians do and wish memory, truth and justice for them too.
This guy knows what he's saying: "...Argentina was part of the informal empire". Thank you. Many of us struggle to make other argies understand that and the fact that today we are just the US's backyard.
I can distinguish there's no intended bias when Dr. Patrick Speight uses "dirty war" to refer to the 1976-1983 dictatorship anti subversion "campaign" (annihilation), but that was (an still is) the subtle way to put both sides at the same level of responsibility when they are not. So... there was no war, neither a clean nor dirty one.
My grandfather on my mother’s side of the family was born in Argentina in Baradero province of Buenos Aires. His father was an Irish that established himself in Argentina and was a cattleman. His name was Patrick Whelan and he arrived to Argentina around 1863. My grandfather left his mother after Patrick died because she remarried a Spanish man who was a gambler, and good for nothing. My grandfather was 10 years old he still saw his brother but otherwise never learnt English and never saw his father again.My grandfather moved to Cordoba in Argentina and always kept his love for Ireland that he had heard of and never seen. Meanwhile he was good catholic and very successful with his company in the metallurgical industry ,. He was a very hard worker raised a family of 4 children and eventually one day he tried hard to lear English or enough to be able to visit the land of his Father. I believe it was a special moment for him to find his roots. During the 2 nd World war the Whelan part of my family was pro allies and funny enough my father’s family was Italian and had more sympathy then for I’ll Duce. But neither family was antisemitic . I fact this was more evident then in Europe Italy Germany England and France where antisemitic and more so. Than Argentina that was a county of immigration.I went to British schools in Argentina Christian by the names St.Peter’s and St Andrew’s from the English and Scottish communities that needed to have their own language and education system. In these schools a good 30 % of the students and school mates and friends were jewish . This is not to say that there was no antisemitism at all in Argentina. The Peronist government that was hated by both my families Italian or Irish was totally pro Axis. My Irish Argentine grandad opened an Icecream parkour the name was Heladería Irlanda. Icecream parlor Ireland. He was very proud of his origin.
I had always maintained that Argentina was the only place outside the Anglosphere where the Irish emigrated in any numbers. To learn that on arriving in Argentina they mostly went to work for English companies modifies that assumption.
They tried hard to keep their identity, and heritage, a little known fact here in Buenos Aires is that the football club Ferrocarril Oeste was founded by the Irish workers of the western-bound Argentine railway, and that they "battled" with thier bosses until they finally managed to have the club use green in thier shirts as homage to Ireland, (unknow by the English as Ireland was undergoing a "civil war" trying to gain independence from the British). To this day, the club's main entrance has 4 statues representing Ireland, Wales, Scotland and England.
@@markaxworthy2508 Nope, what he meant (I'm an Argie) means simply that, like all the other immigrant communities, they took pride in having their own social institutions and marrying within the community. But intermixing with Spaniards and Italians and what not was unavoidable, because of law of sheer numbers. On the other hand, when Irish people in Argentina went to work (or were brought to work for English companies it was mainly because of the common English language and shared English/British ways of doing things (nothing to do with siesta/mid-afternoon naps as we do in Spain and Italy, being punctual, and so on). It doesn't mean that the Irish "submitted" in some way or another to the English. Keep in mind, although proud of their Irish identity, these irish folks had NOT suffered the famine and that, althoug surely resentful of English dominance over Ireland, did not hate the English per se, they probably regarded themselves as Irish British, which was the norm in Ireland herself despite the struggle for independence, in the sense that British way of thinking and doing things was already effectively ingrained in the Irish mentality. No "true Irish Celt" mentality was left in any of Ireland by the 1800s, adn presumably even before then. Ireland have been Anglicised enough, not completely, but enough.
Segun el historiador Camilo Dominguez (San Luis) Irlandeses antes de el siglo XIX un tal Wilkes O'connor quien con su hija pasando a Mendoza enfermó y ,quedó en San Luis; fundó la primer escuela puntana y suapellido cambiose por Vilches. Los Pringles ,cuando portugueses traficaban contrabando de esclavos . Pringles vino como "médico" acompañando una partida o cargamento cargamento de esclavos con destino a Mendoza . Se quedó y pasó a San Luis dobde se afinco y puso carniceria. Su hijo seria el famoso Juan Pascual Pringles heroe de la de la batalla de Chancay, Perú . Los Sheepherd,se lo cambiaron por Pastor y los Ireland por Islas
The Argentine people hold a great respect towards the Irish nation and his people. One of our national heroes is William Brown, an Irish sailor who fought for our nation. It even has a football team which honors his name "Club Atletico Almirante Brown"
Thank so much it makes me feel so happy that the Irish are more just pototo pickers or whiskey and Guinness drinkers The document makes me want too find out so much more why Catholicismin has been so much more than Just a Religious way life 😔
Very interesting. It would be interesting to know how the Irish-Argentine Community related to the Anglo-Argentine community. Were the Irish also in the upper, monied tier of Argentine society? Are the Irish today essentially a middle class group, or are there poor Irish Argentines in any numbers? To what degree have they kept themselves separate from Hispano-Italian Argentines?
There are people of Irish extraction in all levels of society. I'm living here the past two years and have met Irish-Argentine farmers, academics, veterinarians, priests, business people, landowners and more. The Irish wave of immigration was on the decline by the 1890's, its an old wave of immigration and most have integrated long ago and become criollo. They have a name for money now and many do have a lot of land/money, but many are regular folk too & those that integrated (and became mixed) are in all levels of society. I think the rich stereotype comes from the fact that those that do have land/money have a louder voice in the country and are very integral, and in fact seminal, parts of their respective towns and regions. Those left as a community often tend to be involved in agriculture, places like General Las Heras, San Antonio del Areco, Capilla del Señor. I even met a black taxi driver in Buenos Aires whose name was Coleman, he called me brother and "compatriota" (once I told him I was Irish), he said he was the only black Irish in the city jajaja
just a fact to consider: Irish immigrants traveling to Argentina had to pay five times more than those heading to New York. This meant only those with financial stability, land to buy, or a secured job made the journey. Most achieved great success. Interestingly, the 'Irish purity' was diluted after the third generation, as Irish men sought beautiful Catholic wives, often finding them among Hispanic and Italian women. Cheers, Fernando Keena.
@@markaxworthy2508 There were many Italian immigrants, around 4 million and among them you have all kinds, from the north, from the south, with very different luck or destinations, one is the Pope, another the best football player, but I don't know the names of those who they came back They would be those "who made La America". But think that it is estimated that 65% of the 48 million Argentines have at least one of the 4 grandparents of Italian origin. I AM one of them
Sabes? Cuando fue la guerra de Malvinas y los ingleses tomaron prisioneros a soldados argentinos ,entre ellos había galeses, muy asombrados preguntaron porque pelearon contra ellos y respondieron Porque somos argentinos y es nuestra Patria. Eso lo contó un oficial inglés. Es una comunidad grande que vive en el sur, descendientes de galeses obvio❤
Has anyone ever researched the Irish component of the Afrikaans-speaking community in South Africa? My grandfather’s second wife was an O’Neill from the NW Transvaal. Her brother was headmaster of a well known Afrikaans high school in Krugersdorp, west of Johannesburg.
County Longford, in the Irish midlands had many people that went to the Argentine. A family named Duffy were well known in Public office there. Bundaberg Mayor?
I am 4th generation of pure Irish descende living in Bs Aires and 31 years ago, I married a nice little girl .... also 4th generation of pure Irish descendent. ☘️
Camila O'gorman, the granddaughter of an Irish trader who settled in Buenos Aires at the end of the 18th century. Camila belonged to the second richest family in Buenos Aires and she was executed after it was found out she got pregnant of a priest. A very sad story during Rosas times.
I'm a quarter irish from My grandmother, despite that, personally I discovered that My personality in many aspects is very irish lol, ALSO italian haha very shorts fuse haha
I can clearly sense how this writer starts on the premise and the prejudice of considering Peronism and its implications as a program of so called distribution of wealth. From that on, all his approach is tinted with this focus and his conclusions are based upon false assumptions. The Peronist Civil War started in 1973 when both sides of Peronism started to kill each other. It didn’t start all in 1976 as he suggested
It is fair to say that Rodolfo Walsh was an important member of the terrorist group called Montoneros , and he is directly responsable of murdered people with a bomb placed in a dinner room were civil personnel of the police headquerters in Buenos Aires was having lunch , In other words he was an assasin .
Para ser declarado culpable de asesino debería haber sido juzgado y condenado por un juez. Lamentablemente nunca vamos a poder saber si era un asesino o no porque fue asesinado y su cuerpo desaparecido.
@@lucianospaccesi7900 … documents published on books ! No such a thing “ estado de derecho “ is present in a military goverment . Clearly you admire Walsh , so why dont you do yourself a favor , and fly to La Havana , from Walsh wanted to “ import” to Argentina their way of running a country … comunism . And check by yourself how people lives there . Sorry , this was my las comment .
@@JBGLX si como decís "no existe el estado de derecho en un gobierno militar" entonces estás reconociendo que un grupo de delincuentes se hizo con las atribuciones del estado y que por consiguiente los supuestos delitos de un particular son cosa muy menor al lado de los crímenes de estado de la junta militar. Mi país es Argentina y todavía no nació el Inglés o yanki que me venga a decir donde tengo que vivir.
Listening to this great talk I ask myself how Pope Francis must have seen the "Irish" Argentinians. Clearly he hails more from Italian DNA than Irish and guessing his views were at odds with many of those held by Irish Argentinian community on many occasions (wealth distribution , Dirty War, Politics)? Maybe his 3 month stint in Dublin in early 1980 changed this but guessing there must have been conflicts over the years with the "Irish" priests in Argentina and a weariness as to their motivations?
I think you're mixing up different things. The Argentine-Irish, while overall more "conservative" than Argentine-Italians or Argentine-Spaniards (because of the British-infused mentality), are notwithstanding a divided community like the rest, meaning the younger generations are more progressive and in favour of wealth redistribution, and the older generation being against. This is universal, no matter the place and the lineage, because it's a generational thing, nothing to do with ancestry. Re his 3-months stay in Dublin, it didn't change anything for him, as we was attending formal theology training, not helping with any poor-oriented parish. He developed his lefty views slowly over time, and there's no way 3 months somewhere could have changed his mind. I remember very well explaining to my ultra-conservative, Opus Dei leaning relatives in Italy that Pope Francis was a conservative at heart (he wasn't known before his election to Pontificy as a vocal supporter of anything lefty) with a superficial modern veneer. I was wrong and I'm the more happy about that. Pope Francis is quite happy with any priest feeling the fire of vocation, he doesn't care much whether the priest or nun is a conservative or a communist. His main point is that you can be all the conservative you want, but in order to be a true Catholic, then you'd better stick to Christ's example itself -specifically, compassion and humility- rather than with traditional Catholic teachings, which go boradly against the teachings of Christ.
This interview would have been more impactful if the interviewer was better versed in the evolution of Gaelic society since 2AD and more knowledgeable about Irish history spanning the millennia, rather than history post famine.
Interesting stories, but really repulsive to hear, several times, the term "dirty war". The term was dismissed already during the Trial of the Juntas in 1985, when the court ruled there was no "war" and that the term was used by the Juntas to relativize the magnitude of their crimes by framing them in the fake context of a fake civil war.
So how do you call the countless bombings killing over a thousand people, many civilians, executed by the montoneros and others left wing groups? If they had declared a war and fought it conventionally against the state, it would have been a war, but instead they decided to do terrorist attacks and, regrettably, the state responded to it in ways outside the law, hence it was a dirty war.
Overall, yes, Brutish empire bad, Spanish empire good. 1) The Brutish exterminated the natives and abhorred the very idea of mixing up with other races; the Spaniards didn't (disease spread was totally unintentional, but more immportantly, the Spanish mixed with the natives, giving the Latin American mestizos, and even today countries like Guatemala, Chile and Mexico boast 60% of natives; while the USA, Canada, Australia only 0.7% natives survive today). 2) The Brutish made it a very strict policy from the very begginning to close access to hospitals, schools, etc. to anybody not White; the Spaniards from the very begginning saw it just normal everyday stuff to open up hospitals, schools, etc. to natives and Blacks. 3) The Brutish made it a very strict policy from the very begginning to close access to civil and military positions to anybody not White; the Spaniards from the very begginning saw it just normal everyday stuff that natives and Blacks could access them too (there were a few natives Viceroys in Peru, for instance; never would any British ever conceived that). 4) The Brutish imposed the Transatlantic Slave Trade even on the Spanish empire, who were forced to buy Africans directly fromt he Brutish (Asiento de Negros rights everywhere in Spanish Americas following the Treaty of Utrecht). 5) The Brutish were extremely brutal in their treatment of natives and Blacks; the Spaniards took a much more gentle approach once the natives were submitted.
@@x2y3a1j5 What about the Spanish Inquisition, was that good. It was the British who stopped the slave trade. What about the roman empire, what did the romans ever do for us indigenous Celtic Britons.
@@williamwallace4924 For your information, seeing that you're full of Anglo-centric prejudices: 1) Contrary to Anglo-centric prejudices, the Spanish Inquisition NEVER had any jurisdiction whatsoever on them poor Jews and Moors, who could never be judged by the Inquisition. The inquisition was only authorized to judge on CONVERTS, suspected of holding on to their former religions. You circumcised sod, the moment you cross yourself, I'll havenews for ya! Now, move on and go argue your case at the baron's and good luck with that! 2) Contrary to Anglo-centric prejudices, considering the extreme brutality and everyday use of torture in feudal jurisdictions (all over Europe, England included) which was the custom at the time, the Inquisition brought a very modern invention, very welcomed by its victims: the appointment of LAWYERS who defended the accused (these lawyers being themselves priests of course, for it was a religious tribunal). This was specifically written in all the Bullies issued by the Popes and enforced by the kings. Moreover, the Bullies themselves specified that the use of torture had to be limited to 15 minutes/day and specified instructions on how to torture victimes "humanly", so to speak, and in the presence of one or several doctors. This was such an improvement over the traditional, secular justice, that victimes PREFERRED to be "questioned" by the Inquisition than being handed over to the much more brutal secular justice. 3) Contrary to Anglo-centric prejudices, the sheer volume of processes started by the Inquisition gave a consistent 97% rate of plain rejection to even start a procedure, seeing that the mass of accusations were merely bitter neighbour complains trying to rob other neighbours from their properties. Only the true "relapsed" Christians (that is, accused of practicing Jewish and Muslim religions in their homes) were ever tried, or those accused of witchcraft/sorcellery. 4) Concerning witchcfraft/sorcellery accusations, the sheer volume of trials made by the Inquisition and other Catholic jurisdictions show that the prosecution of such cases was significantly lower than in Protestant countries (for example, Scotland, then an ultracalvinist country, burned alive 7% of its total population, NEVER any such figure or anything apporaching it happened anywhere in Catholic territories). 5) During the approx. 300 years when the Spanish Inquisition was being effectively used, the total number of victims that were murdered/legally executed is around 3,000, a mere 10 executions/year. Contrast that number against the hundreds of thousands of "witches" burnt in Protestant Germany, Protest England, Protestant Netherlands in only a few years, or extend that to include the same 300 years; I guarantee you'll change your mind completely. Most of the "executions" consisted simply in burning effigies or portraits of the accused, specifically of their "former" Jew or Muslim selves, seeing that by the time a sentence was ready to be passed, the accused had already bought his way out of death via repentance + fine + contrition. So, many autodafés were made just to make peasants believe the Church was really fighting "heretics" while permitting those heretics to save their souls by conversion (again) to Catholicism. 6) Much more interesting, the Spanish Inquisition provided that a "repentant" person accused of relapsing into their old religion could pay a fine and skip both torture and execution, being merely disterred or banned form that particular town for 10 years. Not have money? No problem, say 100 Hail Marys, 100 Holy Father, 100 Credos, and do some pennance in the form of mandatory pilgrimage to 3 or 7 or 10 or 12 churches designated by the Tribunal, and you're good to go. Of course some scoundrel priests used the fine system to enrich themselves, but not the whole Inquisition as a system, who enriched itself via simply royal contributions just to protect the Crown and their favorites from the possibility us the peasants may eventually ask the Inquisition to bother them nobles too. 7) Not only the corresponding Wikipedia pages are a trove of information, much more interestingly the Vatican Archives have been opened to scholars from all over the world for the past 20 years or so iirc. So anybody can double- and triple-check each and every case, do their own math, and check against other scholars' maths. There's hardly ever a strong difference. 8) The Brutish Empire did not "stop" slavery. It only realized that techological improvements of their time (Watts' steam engines, etc.) and the very recent modern capitalism organization of exploiting workers for wages were far more efficient & profitable and thus slavery had turned into an economic burden rather than an advantage. Therefore, it made perfect sense to, in the one hand, jealously protect Brutish technological advance by preventing other rival powers from copying them while, on the other hand, simultaneously, economically hurting as much as possible same others under the pretence that, now, slavery was not right and had to be stopped. It wasn't an act of charity or of sudden moral awakening to the atrocities of slavery, it was only a war on the economies of rival powers disguised under a moral pretext, much like the Yankees today yell "freedom and democracy!" and dutifully bring it about via massive carpet bombings and invasions whenever a poor guy in some s#!thole country discovers oil somewhere. 8) Celt Bruttons were provided BATH complexes and sanitation by the Romans, and that's all you need to know. Nevermind an alphabet, laws, etc. Judging by the state of NHS and the general dental health of current-day Bruttons, the SELF-GERMANIZED "Celtic" Bruttons -who for 1,600 years have consistently slaughtered their Celtic neighbours in Wales, Scotland and Ireland- and the utter histerical nonsense of Brexit, one must concede that Romans should have never wasted their time and efforts in England in the first place and leave it to its own demise, and should have chose to civilise Wales, Ireland and Scotland instead. Scottish weather being what it is, plus Pict & Caledonian general hostility to whatever reeks of soap & water, the Romans were absolutely right in building that wall to let them enjoy their filth, err, "culture". The Welsh were hiding in their hobbit holes, and the Irish were merely ignored.
Dr. Patrick, it seems when you set out on your journey you already had a mindset that was negative to the Irish diaspora in Argentina. You fail to mention even once the continued existence of Argentine GAA clubs for over 100 years and the continued explosion of gaelic games and GAA clubs in the past twenty years. You speak of the Argentinian Irish during the war years as if they were totally fascist and self serving. Were the Irish in Ireland any different at that time? Context and timing is everything. Maybe you should pay a visit to Palestine and the West Bank today and have a look at the new fascists Britain and the US created.
The catholic church bred fascists, was in bed with fascists, would not give Jewish children refuge here but facilitated the escape and sanctuary of Nazi soldiers escaping punishment out of Europe. Pulpit politics was their game and defending Franco was their sermon. If it looks like a duck.
In Spain and Portugal. Argentina Catholicism is known as New Christian or Jewish Jesuitical. It’s a result of the Spanish Inquisition. Lots of façade and mostly commercial contents. Despite being matriarcal.
I must say I have misgivings about nordie nationalists discussing Irish history, as they tend to over mythologise the past. It's part of the reason that's holding NI back.
I don't usually comment on these threads, but both men in the conversation have PhDs in Irish history. It isn't a case of 'nordie nationalists' discussing Irish history as you so put it.
@@historynownvtv4519 They can have all the garlands in the world but there has been a particular slant on Irish history (particularly but not exclusively) by nordie nationalists, that only a UI can resolve in their view. That only contributes to the still sectarian NI unfortunately. It is well about time for a bit of revisionism.
We are Northern Irish,not Nordies.Our capital is Dublin just like you.Our countrymen divided our beautiful land. People like you.Eire will always be 32 counties.The Gaa loves the North we pack the stadium.
Rodolfo Walsh was in the 70" part of a terrorist group call MONTONEROS that killed houndreds or argentines . He organize ,among many terrorist acts, the bombimg oina dinners hall blongs to the police, where died 36 argentines. Besides a good writer he was a beter assasain.
@@luisarmisem8903 On Wikipedia it says this about Argentina: 58.9% Christianity -48.9% Roman Catholic -10.0% Other Christian 39.8% Judaism non practicing 1.3% Other, including Judaism orthodox
@@luisarmisem8903 it didn't fail but I believe that if one consider the Jewish Jesuitics, the New Christians, the Messianics, and the non practicing jews, the Jewish population in Argentina both asheknazi and sefardi may reach over 30 million people.
@@luisarmisem8903 I don't know it in depth but Pope Francis, as they say in Argentina "Católico de profesión, judío de corazón." isn't that what the jesuitics mean?
Irish, Welsh and Scottish people are always welcome in Argentina!
You got that correct, they are the same type of warm king and caring people
@@jamesbradshaw3389 yes sir.
If you're not mentioning England as a reference to the Falklands War, please remember that there are plenty of Scots and Welsh in the British Army and many of them are proud to be British too!
We don't want them in our country. Milei will deport 🇦🇷 💪
No mention of Engerland not because of falklands but because of the football. @@gabrielsouthrenburns41
Admiral William Brown Heroe of Argentina Independence. Forever remembered!
The Ambassador of Argentina to Ireland sadly passed away during Covid. It was difficult to repatriate her body at the time, so she was buried in Brown’s home town of Foxford, Co.Mayo.
@@TheLastAngryMan01 Wow, I wouldn't say it's a nice story to read since involves a deceased person but it's a pretty poetical one if you think about it.
We are about 1M Irish descendants in Argentina. I went to an Irish school in Argentina and my house was Munster. I had a thick Irish accent as a child and was taught the 32 counties as well as the lives of many Irish Saints. Saint Columba, Columban, Kirean and Brendan. My family came from Ireland right after the potato famine in 1851 and my grandfather was a Grandson of 4 Irish born Grandparents as many of them were from Meath, West Meath and Offaly. As noted in the video indeed the immigrants were quite well educated and all became very wealthy farmers in 10's of thousands of acres.
Just to illustrate how many we are in the last two world cups 2 players had Irish roots Tata Brown and Alexis MacAlister. We also have one of the candidates for President in October is of Irish ascent as well Patricia Bullrich and a former president Edelmiro Farrell.
Eduardo Coghlan the writer of the 1000 page genealogy book of the Irish in Argentina was my neighbour living in the 8th floor of the same apartment building in Recoleta
Actually one descendant of the Mulhall mentioned there was my girlfriend for a couple of years as well.
Oh god more and more points. I took my first comunion from Fatehr Conrelius Ryan who was an Irish priest at St Patrick's church in Belgrano.
Wow... Saint Kevin.. Another Irish saint.
Thank you, hughes of Buenos Aires, we love irish people
So happy to see ye win world cup ❤❤
Love the name ,,,
Speak for yourself,my grandma was of irish descent but that's it. I don't 'love' people because of their nationality, that's a rather obtuse view on human beings.
Hernán. Es evidente que no conoces muy bien a los irlandeses! Hay de todo. Este país ha cambiado y para peor. Soy irlandesa.
@@doloresaquines1529 No it hasn't!
Met a guy from Argentina in Galway years ago how was researching his family three, his great great grandmother had emigrated to Argentina from Galway and he told me that when she arrived in Argentina she only spoke Irish and no English at all. I found out conversation fascinating.
*tree
3
Nine months in Argentina 🇦🇷
Well for him .
Everyone should visit Argentina it’s a wonderful place with great people.
I absolutely fell in love with Buenos Aires when I went there last year....
❤❤❤
VIVA ARGENTINA Y VIVA IRLANDA-----
I'm argentine and live in a small town a 114 km from Buenos Aires where there is a large irish community and most of them don't even speak english. Irish are known here for having adopted the local ways and traditions and blended right away. They tend to see them selves as "very argentine". I think that's the case of irish people in small towns or middle class irish. I guess the wealthy irish may have kept the irish ways much more
In Argentina sentimos muchísima simpatía por el heroico pueblo irlandés. Y queremos que vengan muchos más porque los necesitamos.
Thanks Jorge.
I can retire to Mendoza with my wife this year under a pensionista program from the Argentine government.
Lastima q el buen trato q les damos no es retribuido,años atras cuando argentinos con ascendencia irlandesa estaban buscando obtener la ciudadanía, diplomáticos irlandeses los sacaron cagando. Tenemos una vision bastante romantica del inmigrante, sobre todo blanco y europeo, mientras el marron- latino-sirio-palestino-senegales? fuera fuera! no, Jorge?
@@Kitiwake From THIS government? well, that's strange since it's an oppressive one, we are being currently ruled by a nutter, clueless corrupt. Also, wonder if there's something similar for the argentine pensionists who want to live in Ireland...
@@lady.stardust-tn3umtroll, milei is the best. Womp womp little cockroach
@@lady.stardust-tn3um tenés razón.
My brother and I studied in Irish schools here in Buenos Aires, although our family is English Anglican from London, I remember the Irish dance classes and all the celebrations we had, and my still group of friends .
The Irish in Argentina with Dr Patrick Speight #History #Ireland #Argentina 0922am 28.824 and we wonder why Uruguay and the argies are so adept, naturally so, at rugby....
You chose well
@@jamesbradshaw3389 rofl...
Well-known Argentinian people with Irish blood: Admiral Brown, Che Guevara Lynch, Guillermo Patricio Kelly, Norma Kennedy, Rodolfo Walsh, Lucas Lennon.
Alexis MacALister and el Tata Brown. Juan Carlos Harriot and dozens of other polo players including olympic gold medalists
Distefano tambien tiene origen Irlandes
I think Norma Kennedy is related to the Kennedys of the US (From Irish diaspora in the U.S. one of them is JFK 35th U.S. President)
Quien es Lucas Lennon?
@@jorgearielortiz8327no.su padre fue italiano y su madre francesa
Fascinating.
I had read about Irish emigration from Longford / Roscommon to Argentina.
I’m an old Spanish student from 1970s. My Spanish teacher was touched by Evita Peron story and I was a student during the Argentina 78 football era.
Argentina fascinates me to this day. I love to hear Argentine accents and words when I travel in Spain.
I was thinking of the welch communities in Argentina when you spoke about the Irish.
Just wondered if you have any knowledge of church of Ireland or Irish Presbyterianism communities in Argentina.
Very interesting to hear your research. Very enjoyable.
Thanks.
If you need or want any help, I´ve been head of Quilmes High School more than 25 years. It was founded by Miss Esther Ross, born in roscommon ca 1880
Fascinating conversation. Will look into the Irish-Argentine links further.
We also have a Catholic newspaper in South Africa called the Southern Cross.
Southern Cross in Victoria Australia flag. Victoria has a good Irish history.
Que clara visión del historiador cuando dice que argentina formaba parte INFORMAL del imperio Británico.
También lo dijo Trotsky en "Imperialismo, fase superior de capitalismo"
Todo el mundo lo sabe. Bien colonia este ispa.
@@lady.stardust-tn3um Nunca la Argentina fué tan próspera como entonces. Nos guste o no es la realidad. 5ta potencia mundial, tengo Agenda Hachette de 1939.
Argentina estaba alineada al Reino Unido y por décadas fue nuestro principal cliente, pero de ahí a ser colonia hay una gran diferencia, acá había una comunidad alemana importante y no se entró en las guerras mundiales.
@@gonzalogarcia6240 No fueron nuestros "clientes". Dónde hubo la única sucursal de Harrods fuera de Londres? Mueblería Maple, Mapping & Webb, Bazar Wright, Burberry's, Casa Tow, etc etc. Se manejó por la izquierda hasta 1945. Casi cada barrio de Buenos Aires tiene un "barrio inglés" paralelo al ferrocarril que fue británico, algunos también sus links. Somos unos de los pocos países que tiene la costumbre de la hora del té. Los deportes británicos que se juegan en todos lados y que dominamos (cricket sólo en algunos colegios británicos). Ya casi no va quedando la gente que vivió esa Argentina que fue profundamente anglófila. A los más jóvenes les queda sólo el resentimiento de 1982. Sería bueno abrir los oídos y escuchar a los historiadores. Nos ayudaría a entender mejor a esta Argentina.
I don't speak Spanish. But i know a little. Love that he pronounced the city of Medillin in Argie Spanish. This chap is all in.
William brown a mayo legend gave his best for argintina 👏👏👏👍
Great Interview. Lights and Shades. Thanks for sharing
Mi amiga es de apellido Murray, su bisabuelo proviene de Irlanda. Amo a los irlandeses,tenemos mucho en común, nuestro fanatismo por nuestro país y orgullo. Mi hermano iba a un colegio irlandés de curas irlandeses, que aún existe en la ciudad donde nací. Me encanta cuando festejan el día de San Patricio, hoy en día también se juntan con argentinos en un bar irlandes de Buenos Aires. ❤
I saw a documentary on the Irish Argentinians and they were absolutely beautiful looking people. Blue or green eyes long brownish hair , olive skin . Just magnificent.
Notable beauties.
Yeah, we're truly a joy to look at. :p
One of the gratest hero of our independence was admiral Guillermo Brown, from Ireland. He fight braverly agains the spanish Empire from 1811 to 1818, mainly in the River Plate scenario. And beat them many times. 10years later he fougth against the Brazilian Empire and beat them many times.
Arturo KENNY distinguished himself and his country of birth, Argentina, as Olympic Polo Champions in 1924, in Paris! The first Gold Medal in our history.
El padrino de mi viejo! Abzo.
Thank you Dr. Patrick Spaige and NVTV for this interview. I would like to read Dr. Spaige's book but I live in Argentina and I'm not sure I could find it here. A special thanks for mentioning the Palatine's massacre (as we call it in Argentina) maybe not the Irish community don't want to remember that but argentinians do and wish memory, truth and justice for them too.
What a beautiful and very interesting interview!!!!
This guy knows what he's saying: "...Argentina was part of the informal empire". Thank you. Many of us struggle to make other argies understand that and the fact that today we are just the US's backyard.
Excellent, I enjoyed that very much.
Very interesting thanks 👍
Irish and all immigrants arrived in Argentina were welcome. Nice interview, it seems very good research about argentine-irish history
I can distinguish there's no intended bias when Dr. Patrick Speight uses "dirty war" to refer to the 1976-1983 dictatorship anti subversion "campaign" (annihilation), but that was (an still is) the subtle way to put both sides at the same level of responsibility when they are not. So... there was no war, neither a clean nor dirty one.
Yes. I was born in Rosario
My grandad was a radical anti-Peronista just because he was an honest worker and didn't wanted any gifts from the state or government.
QUÉ TIPO PELOTU..DO!! TU ABUELO Y VOS!!
My grandfather on my mother’s side of the family was born in Argentina in Baradero province of Buenos Aires. His father was an Irish that established himself in Argentina and was a cattleman. His name was Patrick Whelan and he arrived to Argentina around 1863. My grandfather left his mother after Patrick died because she remarried a Spanish man who was a gambler, and good for nothing. My grandfather was 10 years old he still saw his brother but otherwise never
learnt English and never saw his father again.My grandfather moved to Cordoba in Argentina and always kept his love for Ireland that he had heard of and never seen. Meanwhile he was good catholic and very successful with his company in the metallurgical industry ,. He was a very hard worker raised a family of 4 children and eventually one day he tried hard to lear English or enough to be able to visit the land of his Father. I believe it was a special moment for him to find his roots. During the 2 nd World war the Whelan part of my family was pro allies and funny enough my father’s family was Italian and had more sympathy then for I’ll Duce. But neither family was antisemitic . I fact this was more evident then in Europe Italy Germany England and France where antisemitic and more so. Than Argentina that was a county of immigration.I went to British schools in Argentina Christian by the names St.Peter’s and St Andrew’s from the English and Scottish communities that needed to have their own language and education system. In these schools a good 30 % of the students and school mates and friends were jewish . This is not to say that there was no antisemitism at all in Argentina. The Peronist government that was hated by both my families Italian or Irish was totally pro Axis.
My Irish Argentine grandad opened an Icecream parkour the name was Heladería Irlanda. Icecream parlor Ireland. He was very proud of his origin.
I had always maintained that Argentina was the only place outside the Anglosphere where the Irish emigrated in any numbers. To learn that on arriving in Argentina they mostly went to work for English companies modifies that assumption.
They tried hard to keep their identity, and heritage, a little known fact here in Buenos Aires is that the football club Ferrocarril Oeste was founded by the Irish workers of the western-bound Argentine railway, and that they "battled" with thier bosses until they finally managed to have the club use green in thier shirts as homage to Ireland, (unknow by the English as Ireland was undergoing a "civil war" trying to gain independence from the British). To this day, the club's main entrance has 4 statues representing Ireland, Wales, Scotland and England.
@@efudoishido7480 You say, "They tried hard to keep their identity, and heritage". So they were resistant to integration into wider Argentine society?
@@markaxworthy2508 Nope, what he meant (I'm an Argie) means simply that, like all the other immigrant communities, they took pride in having their own social institutions and marrying within the community. But intermixing with Spaniards and Italians and what not was unavoidable, because of law of sheer numbers.
On the other hand, when Irish people in Argentina went to work (or were brought to work for English companies it was mainly because of the common English language and shared English/British ways of doing things (nothing to do with siesta/mid-afternoon naps as we do in Spain and Italy, being punctual, and so on). It doesn't mean that the Irish "submitted" in some way or another to the English. Keep in mind, although proud of their Irish identity, these irish folks had NOT suffered the famine and that, althoug surely resentful of English dominance over Ireland, did not hate the English per se, they probably regarded themselves as Irish British, which was the norm in Ireland herself despite the struggle for independence, in the sense that British way of thinking and doing things was already effectively ingrained in the Irish mentality. No "true Irish Celt" mentality was left in any of Ireland by the 1800s, adn presumably even before then. Ireland have been Anglicised enough, not completely, but enough.
Why Irish did not settled in Brazil in the 1840s because Brazil is a Catholic country and Chile was founded by an Irish hero
Great show , very enlightening.
La historia que contó sobre Camila O' Gorman y el padre Ladislao fue filmada en Argentina y nominada para el Óscar, quizás se pueda ver en algún lado
I'm 4gen irish Argentinian. Eirinn go brach. Up the RA 🇮🇪
Segun el historiador Camilo Dominguez (San Luis) Irlandeses antes de el siglo XIX un tal Wilkes O'connor quien con su hija pasando a Mendoza enfermó y ,quedó en San Luis; fundó la primer escuela puntana y suapellido cambiose por Vilches. Los Pringles ,cuando portugueses traficaban contrabando de esclavos . Pringles vino como "médico" acompañando una partida o cargamento cargamento de esclavos con destino a Mendoza . Se quedó y pasó a San Luis dobde se afinco y puso carniceria. Su hijo seria el famoso Juan Pascual Pringles heroe de la de la batalla de Chancay, Perú .
Los Sheepherd,se lo cambiaron por Pastor y los Ireland por Islas
The Argentine people hold a great respect towards the Irish nation and his people.
One of our national heroes is William Brown, an Irish sailor who fought for our nation. It even has a football team which honors his name "Club Atletico Almirante Brown"
Y así se llama el Liceo Naval, Almirante Guillermo Brown
Fascinating
Thank so much it makes me feel so happy that the Irish are more just pototo pickers or whiskey and Guinness drinkers
The document makes me want too find out so much more why Catholicismin has been so much more than Just a Religious way life 😔
Very interesting. It would be interesting to know how the Irish-Argentine Community related to the Anglo-Argentine community. Were the Irish also in the upper, monied tier of Argentine society? Are the Irish today essentially a middle class group, or are there poor Irish Argentines in any numbers? To what degree have they kept themselves separate from Hispano-Italian Argentines?
There are people of Irish extraction in all levels of society. I'm living here the past two years and have met Irish-Argentine farmers, academics, veterinarians, priests, business people, landowners and more. The Irish wave of immigration was on the decline by the 1890's, its an old wave of immigration and most have integrated long ago and become criollo. They have a name for money now and many do have a lot of land/money, but many are regular folk too & those that integrated (and became mixed) are in all levels of society. I think the rich stereotype comes from the fact that those that do have land/money have a louder voice in the country and are very integral, and in fact seminal, parts of their respective towns and regions. Those left as a community often tend to be involved in agriculture, places like General Las Heras, San Antonio del Areco, Capilla del Señor. I even met a black taxi driver in Buenos Aires whose name was Coleman, he called me brother and "compatriota" (once I told him I was Irish), he said he was the only black Irish in the city jajaja
@@CharlieOBrienTF Many thanks for that. Very interesting.
just a fact to consider: Irish immigrants traveling to Argentina had to pay five times more than those heading to New York. This meant only those with financial stability, land to buy, or a secured job made the journey. Most achieved great success. Interestingly, the 'Irish purity' was diluted after the third generation, as Irish men sought beautiful Catholic wives, often finding them among Hispanic and Italian women. Cheers, Fernando Keena.
@@Fernando-qw8qt Italian migrant workers could earn enough in Argentina to go and return annually. There was a special Argentine name for them.
@@markaxworthy2508 There were many Italian immigrants, around 4 million and among them you have all kinds, from the north, from the south, with very different luck or destinations, one is the Pope, another the best football player, but I don't know the names of those who they came back They would be those "who made La America". But think that it is estimated that 65% of the 48 million Argentines have at least one of the 4 grandparents of Italian origin. I AM one of them
Sabes? Cuando fue la guerra de Malvinas y los ingleses tomaron prisioneros a soldados argentinos ,entre ellos había galeses, muy asombrados preguntaron porque pelearon contra ellos y respondieron Porque somos argentinos y es nuestra Patria. Eso lo contó un oficial inglés. Es una comunidad grande que vive en el sur, descendientes de galeses obvio❤
They left many good things in our country. The greatest hero of the seas: ADMIRAL BROWN.
And a lot of beautiful red haired women.❤
Molto bene grazie fryfru.
Has anyone ever researched the Irish component of the Afrikaans-speaking community in South Africa?
My grandfather’s second wife was an O’Neill from the NW Transvaal.
Her brother was headmaster of a well known Afrikaans high school in Krugersdorp, west of Johannesburg.
And because they couldn't confess with Spanish speaking priests.
It's takes less than a year to be able to make confession in another language.
Would you do a video on the Irish which migrated to Southern Africa.
Irish Mercenaries arrived with the Portuguese-and Spanish
I went to first year of secondary school at the father Fahy´s school. It was a boarding school.
County Longford, in the Irish midlands had many people that went to the Argentine. A family named Duffy were well known in Public office there. Bundaberg Mayor?
I am 4th generation of pure Irish descende living in Bs Aires and 31 years ago, I married a nice little girl .... also 4th generation of pure Irish descendent. ☘️
One half of the world is Irish, and the other half would like to be!
Camila O'gorman, the granddaughter of an Irish trader who settled in Buenos Aires at the end of the 18th century. Camila belonged to the second richest family in Buenos Aires and she was executed after it was found out she got pregnant of a priest. A very sad story during Rosas times.
I'm a quarter irish from My grandmother, despite that, personally I discovered that My personality in many aspects is very irish lol, ALSO italian haha very shorts fuse haha
interesante por cierto ... no lo sabia !
How many Irish were there ?Welsh Argentines are well known .late 1890s big imigration from everywhere in Europe ..
A lot of the Irish in Argentina speak with a Mullingar accent
I can clearly sense how this writer starts on the premise and the prejudice of considering Peronism and its implications as a program of so called distribution of wealth. From that on, all his approach is tinted with this focus and his conclusions are based upon false assumptions. The Peronist Civil War started in 1973 when both sides of Peronism started to kill each other. It didn’t start all in 1976 as he suggested
It is fair to say that Rodolfo Walsh was an important member of the terrorist group called Montoneros , and he is directly responsable of murdered people with a bomb placed in a dinner room were civil personnel of the police headquerters in Buenos Aires was having lunch , In other words he was an assasin .
Para ser declarado culpable de asesino debería haber sido juzgado y condenado por un juez.
Lamentablemente nunca vamos a poder saber si era un asesino o no porque fue asesinado y su cuerpo desaparecido.
Yes it’s has been proof , is in documents that been published on books , like the ones of J B Jofre .
@@JBGLXah, mirá que bueno. "Lo leí en un libro que tal es culpable ..."
Falleció el estado de derecho.
@@lucianospaccesi7900 … documents published on books ! No such a thing “ estado de derecho “ is present in a military goverment .
Clearly you admire Walsh , so why dont you do yourself a favor , and fly to La Havana , from Walsh wanted to “ import” to Argentina their way of running a country … comunism . And check by yourself how people lives there .
Sorry , this was my las comment .
@@JBGLX si como decís "no existe el estado de derecho en un gobierno militar" entonces estás reconociendo que un grupo de delincuentes se hizo con las atribuciones del estado y que por consiguiente los supuestos delitos de un particular son cosa muy menor al lado de los crímenes de estado de la junta militar.
Mi país es Argentina y todavía no nació el Inglés o yanki que me venga a decir donde tengo que vivir.
Listening to this great talk I ask myself how Pope Francis must have seen the "Irish" Argentinians. Clearly he hails more from Italian DNA than Irish and guessing his views were at odds with many of those held by Irish Argentinian community on many occasions (wealth distribution , Dirty War, Politics)? Maybe his 3 month stint in Dublin in early 1980 changed this but guessing there must have been conflicts over the years with the "Irish" priests in Argentina and a weariness as to their motivations?
I think you're mixing up different things. The Argentine-Irish, while overall more "conservative" than Argentine-Italians or Argentine-Spaniards (because of the British-infused mentality), are notwithstanding a divided community like the rest, meaning the younger generations are more progressive and in favour of wealth redistribution, and the older generation being against. This is universal, no matter the place and the lineage, because it's a generational thing, nothing to do with ancestry.
Re his 3-months stay in Dublin, it didn't change anything for him, as we was attending formal theology training, not helping with any poor-oriented parish. He developed his lefty views slowly over time, and there's no way 3 months somewhere could have changed his mind. I remember very well explaining to my ultra-conservative, Opus Dei leaning relatives in Italy that Pope Francis was a conservative at heart (he wasn't known before his election to Pontificy as a vocal supporter of anything lefty) with a superficial modern veneer. I was wrong and I'm the more happy about that.
Pope Francis is quite happy with any priest feeling the fire of vocation, he doesn't care much whether the priest or nun is a conservative or a communist. His main point is that you can be all the conservative you want, but in order to be a true Catholic, then you'd better stick to Christ's example itself -specifically, compassion and humility- rather than with traditional Catholic teachings, which go boradly against the teachings of Christ.
Parece interesante la entrevista, pero no entiendo una goma.
Muy bueno. Recomendable la película Camila (1984) de María Luisa Bemberg
Yeah mate a lot came to Australia
SPANISH Subtitles ????
Si tiene. Yo recien termine de ver el video con subtitulos en español
Mis bisabuelos eran irish, yo argentino, emigré a México, tengo hijos mexicanos. Todo es movimiento. La tierra es de todos
Very interesting unknown history. We should reinstate History in schools. young people are ignorant and easily influenced by activists with agenda.
This interview would have been more impactful if the interviewer was better versed in the evolution of Gaelic society since 2AD and more knowledgeable about Irish history spanning the millennia, rather than history post famine.
Ridiculous notion that a 30 minute interview dealing with the history of the past few centuries should be concerned with that period.
*post genocide
Such derp.
So well off Irish took flight, well that's it! I totally forgive the Brits 😂
Never
As an Irish Argentinian never forgive them. Brits out of malvinas and out of the 6 counties. Eirinn go brach
Aú no lo ví, y ya sé que la tres cuartos de esto es verso.
Interesting stories, but really repulsive to hear, several times, the term "dirty war". The term was dismissed already during the Trial of the Juntas in 1985, when the court ruled there was no "war" and that the term was used by the Juntas to relativize the magnitude of their crimes by framing them in the fake context of a fake civil war.
So how do you call the countless bombings killing over a thousand people, many civilians, executed by the montoneros and others left wing groups? If they had declared a war and fought it conventionally against the state, it would have been a war, but instead they decided to do terrorist attacks and, regrettably, the state responded to it in ways outside the law, hence it was a dirty war.
So right. Americans and english use to call it that way but it's so wrong.
Anyone come across a primitive method of sheep counting used by people out there?
They are Joe Biden’s fellow Irish heritage and Pope Francis’ fellow Argentine citizens
British empire bad, Spanish empire good?
No empire is good?.
@@williamwallace4924go háirithe i nÉirinn mo chara!🇮🇪👍🏻💚☘
Overall, yes, Brutish empire bad, Spanish empire good.
1) The Brutish exterminated the natives and abhorred the very idea of mixing up with other races; the Spaniards didn't (disease spread was totally unintentional, but more immportantly, the Spanish mixed with the natives, giving the Latin American mestizos, and even today countries like Guatemala, Chile and Mexico boast 60% of natives; while the USA, Canada, Australia only 0.7% natives survive today).
2) The Brutish made it a very strict policy from the very begginning to close access to hospitals, schools, etc. to anybody not White; the Spaniards from the very begginning saw it just normal everyday stuff to open up hospitals, schools, etc. to natives and Blacks.
3) The Brutish made it a very strict policy from the very begginning to close access to civil and military positions to anybody not White; the Spaniards from the very begginning saw it just normal everyday stuff that natives and Blacks could access them too (there were a few natives Viceroys in Peru, for instance; never would any British ever conceived that).
4) The Brutish imposed the Transatlantic Slave Trade even on the Spanish empire, who were forced to buy Africans directly fromt he Brutish (Asiento de Negros rights everywhere in Spanish Americas following the Treaty of Utrecht).
5) The Brutish were extremely brutal in their treatment of natives and Blacks; the Spaniards took a much more gentle approach once the natives were submitted.
@@x2y3a1j5 What about the Spanish Inquisition, was that good. It was the British who stopped the slave trade. What about the roman empire, what did the romans ever do for us indigenous Celtic Britons.
@@williamwallace4924 For your information, seeing that you're full of Anglo-centric prejudices:
1) Contrary to Anglo-centric prejudices, the Spanish Inquisition NEVER had any jurisdiction whatsoever on them poor Jews and Moors, who could never be judged by the Inquisition. The inquisition was only authorized to judge on CONVERTS, suspected of holding on to their former religions. You circumcised sod, the moment you cross yourself, I'll havenews for ya! Now, move on and go argue your case at the baron's and good luck with that!
2) Contrary to Anglo-centric prejudices, considering the extreme brutality and everyday use of torture in feudal jurisdictions (all over Europe, England included) which was the custom at the time, the Inquisition brought a very modern invention, very welcomed by its victims: the appointment of LAWYERS who defended the accused (these lawyers being themselves priests of course, for it was a religious tribunal). This was specifically written in all the Bullies issued by the Popes and enforced by the kings. Moreover, the Bullies themselves specified that the use of torture had to be limited to 15 minutes/day and specified instructions on how to torture victimes "humanly", so to speak, and in the presence of one or several doctors. This was such an improvement over the traditional, secular justice, that victimes PREFERRED to be "questioned" by the Inquisition than being handed over to the much more brutal secular justice.
3) Contrary to Anglo-centric prejudices, the sheer volume of processes started by the Inquisition gave a consistent 97% rate of plain rejection to even start a procedure, seeing that the mass of accusations were merely bitter neighbour complains trying to rob other neighbours from their properties. Only the true "relapsed" Christians (that is, accused of practicing Jewish and Muslim religions in their homes) were ever tried, or those accused of witchcraft/sorcellery.
4) Concerning witchcfraft/sorcellery accusations, the sheer volume of trials made by the Inquisition and other Catholic jurisdictions show that the prosecution of such cases was significantly lower than in Protestant countries (for example, Scotland, then an ultracalvinist country, burned alive 7% of its total population, NEVER any such figure or anything apporaching it happened anywhere in Catholic territories).
5) During the approx. 300 years when the Spanish Inquisition was being effectively used, the total number of victims that were murdered/legally executed is around 3,000, a mere 10 executions/year. Contrast that number against the hundreds of thousands of "witches" burnt in Protestant Germany, Protest England, Protestant Netherlands in only a few years, or extend that to include the same 300 years; I guarantee you'll change your mind completely. Most of the "executions" consisted simply in burning effigies or portraits of the accused, specifically of their "former" Jew or Muslim selves, seeing that by the time a sentence was ready to be passed, the accused had already bought his way out of death via repentance + fine + contrition. So, many autodafés were made just to make peasants believe the Church was really fighting "heretics" while permitting those heretics to save their souls by conversion (again) to Catholicism.
6) Much more interesting, the Spanish Inquisition provided that a "repentant" person accused of relapsing into their old religion could pay a fine and skip both torture and execution, being merely disterred or banned form that particular town for 10 years. Not have money? No problem, say 100 Hail Marys, 100 Holy Father, 100 Credos, and do some pennance in the form of mandatory pilgrimage to 3 or 7 or 10 or 12 churches designated by the Tribunal, and you're good to go. Of course some scoundrel priests used the fine system to enrich themselves, but not the whole Inquisition as a system, who enriched itself via simply royal contributions just to protect the Crown and their favorites from the possibility us the peasants may eventually ask the Inquisition to bother them nobles too.
7) Not only the corresponding Wikipedia pages are a trove of information, much more interestingly the Vatican Archives have been opened to scholars from all over the world for the past 20 years or so iirc. So anybody can double- and triple-check each and every case, do their own math, and check against other scholars' maths. There's hardly ever a strong difference.
8) The Brutish Empire did not "stop" slavery. It only realized that techological improvements of their time (Watts' steam engines, etc.) and the very recent modern capitalism organization of exploiting workers for wages were far more efficient & profitable and thus slavery had turned into an economic burden rather than an advantage. Therefore, it made perfect sense to, in the one hand, jealously protect Brutish technological advance by preventing other rival powers from copying them while, on the other hand, simultaneously, economically hurting as much as possible same others under the pretence that, now, slavery was not right and had to be stopped. It wasn't an act of charity or of sudden moral awakening to the atrocities of slavery, it was only a war on the economies of rival powers disguised under a moral pretext, much like the Yankees today yell "freedom and democracy!" and dutifully bring it about via massive carpet bombings and invasions whenever a poor guy in some s#!thole country discovers oil somewhere.
8) Celt Bruttons were provided BATH complexes and sanitation by the Romans, and that's all you need to know. Nevermind an alphabet, laws, etc. Judging by the state of NHS and the general dental health of current-day Bruttons, the SELF-GERMANIZED "Celtic" Bruttons -who for 1,600 years have consistently slaughtered their Celtic neighbours in Wales, Scotland and Ireland- and the utter histerical nonsense of Brexit, one must concede that Romans should have never wasted their time and efforts in England in the first place and leave it to its own demise, and should have chose to civilise Wales, Ireland and Scotland instead. Scottish weather being what it is, plus Pict & Caledonian general hostility to whatever reeks of soap & water, the Romans were absolutely right in building that wall to let them enjoy their filth, err, "culture". The Welsh were hiding in their hobbit holes, and the Irish were merely ignored.
Ireland 🤝🏻 Argentina = hate towards english crown
what a crappy a biased view of the Irish in Argentina, two thumbs down
Cry me a river 😅😅😅
Dr. Patrick, it seems when you set out on your journey you already had a mindset that was negative to the Irish diaspora in Argentina. You fail to mention even once the continued existence of Argentine GAA clubs for over 100 years and the continued explosion of gaelic games and GAA clubs in the past twenty years. You speak of the Argentinian Irish during the war years as if they were totally fascist and self serving. Were the Irish in Ireland any different at that time? Context and timing is everything. Maybe you should pay a visit to Palestine and the West Bank today and have a look at the new fascists Britain and the US created.
The catholic church bred fascists, was in bed with fascists, would not give Jewish children refuge here but facilitated the escape and sanctuary of Nazi soldiers escaping punishment out of Europe. Pulpit politics was their game and defending Franco was their sermon. If it looks like a duck.
Honest criticism is healthy. If you cannot accept honest criticism, you need to look at your values.
An anti english irish man,how unusual!
In Spain and Portugal. Argentina Catholicism is known as New Christian or Jewish Jesuitical. It’s a result of the Spanish Inquisition. Lots of façade and mostly commercial contents. Despite being matriarcal.
The Zionists considered it for settlement post WW2. So Argentina could very well have been in Palestine's shoes today!
Liberation theology is a heresy.
A Pole and German Popes work together to stop the Liberation Theology and you comment to about the Irish in their successor’s homeland
It's the true teaching of Christ, it's written all over the Bible, you should read it again with new eyes.
I must say I have misgivings about nordie nationalists discussing Irish history, as they tend to over mythologise the past. It's part of the reason that's holding NI back.
I don't usually comment on these threads, but both men in the conversation have PhDs in Irish history. It isn't a case of 'nordie nationalists' discussing Irish history as you so put it.
@@historynownvtv4519 They can have all the garlands in the world but there has been a particular slant on Irish history (particularly but not exclusively) by nordie nationalists, that only a UI can resolve in their view. That only contributes to the still sectarian NI unfortunately. It is well about time for a bit of revisionism.
@@peterincork3121given that the topic of discussion is on Argentina, I can only conclude that you haven't watched the video. All the best.
@@historynownvtv4519 Yes I have watched it, thanks very much.
We are Northern Irish,not Nordies.Our capital is Dublin just like you.Our countrymen divided our beautiful land. People like you.Eire will always be 32 counties.The Gaa loves the North we pack the stadium.
Rodolfo Walsh was in the 70" part of a terrorist group call MONTONEROS that killed houndreds or argentines . He organize ,among many terrorist acts, the bombimg oina dinners hall blongs to the police, where died 36 argentines. Besides a good writer he was a beter assasain.
But the Catholicism in Argentina failed in 1996. Today 19 milion Argentinians are Jewish today, mostly ashkenazi
T IS NOT ENTIRELY TRUE
@@luisarmisem8903 On Wikipedia it says this about Argentina:
58.9% Christianity
-48.9% Roman Catholic
-10.0% Other Christian
39.8% Judaism non practicing
1.3% Other, including Judaism orthodox
@@luisarmisem8903 it didn't fail but I believe that if one consider the Jewish Jesuitics, the New Christians, the Messianics, and the non practicing jews, the Jewish population in Argentina both asheknazi and sefardi may reach over 30 million people.
@@AugustinTomasOBrienCaceres los jesuitas es una rama distinta
@@luisarmisem8903 I don't know it in depth but Pope Francis, as they say in Argentina "Católico de profesión, judío de corazón." isn't that what the jesuitics mean?