Pyrrha, Torchwick, Team CFVY, Sun, Neptune, Qrow, all the students from the Vytal Festival tournament, Raven, Sienna, Kali, Penny, the list goes on and on. Can’t wait ‘til we get to see how Tyrion gets butchered.
One idea that I wanted to make a video about is the dynamic of Ruby and Yang in volume 1-3, vs their dynamic in volumes 5-8 (since they didn't really interact much or at all in V4). If you watch the early volumes Monty directed, and to a lesser extent volume 3, Yang and Ruby feel natural. Like, in one of EruptionFang's videos he mentioned how they should bust each other's balls and come across like they've known each other forever. I think in volume 1-2 they succeed tremendously at this, but scenes like this almost never happen in Volumes 5, 6, 7, and 8. I think the main problem with the core RWBY team is that Yang and Ruby didn't get much in the way of back ground prep time/story. Weiss and Blake got a lot, but Blake wrapped hers up with a bow by herself with some help from Yang at the end with Adam. But Yang herself really has no story, and her biggest moment of weakness and flaw in the show, was done by a character who is now dead. For that reason, Weiss remains the only interesting member of RWBY because she's the only one who still has an ongoing arc, and the only one who can continue to grow. Ruby and Yang need a back story and drive explored, and Blake needs a reason to exist post-Adam.
"Good friends are there when it's needed, not just convenient." *SUN.* Good video but I couldn't help growling at the screen this is *exactly* what made Sun a good friend more than anyone in RWBY.
@@johannesseyfried7933 Hey, it might have a little spice. I feel that bumblebee as they did is just... so they can say they did it. Those two are so bland together -_- If you're going to have relationships... put some god damn effort into them, otherwise don't bother... Though same could be said for many of their plot points.
Yes I agree I just re watched s4 and sun feels more like a friend to Blake than the rest of team rwby yeah he followed her and invaded her privacy but he did it to make sure she was okay and stuck around even when he almost got killed multiple times I’m sad we didn’t see him this volume except for in ep 5 for like 1 second
For me the Ace ops as a group left me with the same feeling as the white fang, "good idea, shit execution". There’s nothing in the group that tells you these guys are on a different level than regular hunters. It just tells you they’re better than there are in atlas and then make a fool out of them.
But on the plus side, their losses helped them grow as characters and as a team. Ironically they are better at being main characters than the actual main characters. But I see what you mean about the execution and you’re right. If volume 7 could rewrite the ace ops, it could be a good idea that instead of making them “the best hunters in Atlas” make them second or third year students of Atlas Academy, that way they can still act like the military and work under Ironwood since he is the headmaster and keep that upperclassman relationship they have with the main cast. As a bonus, because they are also students, it wouldn’t be so unbelievable that they lost to team RWBY because of their flaws. They can develop as characters without the complaints that they should have won.
@@enderbrawler6576 Actually having the Ace Ops be the highest academy students would make more sense. They are not full on Hunters but the highest of the academy’s senior years. It would make them the Young Guard of Atlas Military. While the Middle Guard are made up of Atlas trained Hunters and Huntresses and the Old Guard made up of the Elite and most Veteran of the Atlas Hunters. This would make them an elite troop but still give them that youth and inexperience and the chance to learn and make mistakes. It would also be good as this could play into the fall of Mantle and Atlas arc too. Why does Ironwood turn to nuking the city? Cause his elite units in the middle guard and old guard are gone. Killed holding the line and now with the city overrun the best option they have to potentially wipe out the greatest number of enemies + force Salem into a regeneration period would be to nuke the city and take whatever surviving academy students and soldiers to the next kingdom to make another stand. You can have the conflict of these guys having to step up and take the place of the veterans as such their loyalty is almost doubled due to the stress of the situation, but at the same time they are still young and conflicted as these are their people and they don’t want to abandon/kill them
@@reecedignan8365 Yeah, that makes their story sound way more compelling, trying to live up to their superiors which explains their almost stubborn loyalty to Ironwood while also keeping Ironwood as a morally grey antagonist who is backed into a corner and just wants to save what’s left of Atlas and Mantle.
@@enderbrawler6576 Simple as, If I could rewrite Ironwood arc from season 5-8 I’d of had him wrote similar to General Kerensky of Battletech fame - if you do not know of this character and wish to learn about him, may I suggest watching Tex Talks Battletechs two episodes on the Fall of Star League and The Amaris Civil War.
Them only seeing each other as coworkers already made no sense as in real life, Special Operations teams see each other as family and a band of brothers.
Exactly. What’s made immensely clear by the Ace-Ops is that the writers have no clue how the military operates. This is a profession where you need to trust others with your life, it’s a profession built on cooperation and loyalty. I’m sorry, but no, especially on a team like this, you aren’t “just teammates”, not when you’ve gone through the shit I’m presuming they have as special forces. Man, I mean even the effort soldiers go through just to secure the bodies of *DECEASED* comrades is truly incredible, and I doubt this would happen if soldiers didn’t naturally develop unique relationships that are far deeper than “just teammates”.
It also didnt make sense to how Ironwood leads the kingdom. Yeah he's no-nonsense. But he's not no-emotion. It just makes me wonder why they chose to make them seem robotic qhen the top of the top himself isn't a robotic type of man.
@@pandanator6681 Ironwood wanted them more loyal to him than each other. Apparently he had hidden paranoiac tendencies already, given his comment about "chasing a lot of shadows over the years". .
I disagree about Marrow, who's clearly the Ace Ops' counterpart to Blake. He's a dog to her cat faunus, has a "dark" complexion compared to her "pale" one, & his faunus trait is "low" on his body, while hers is "high". Marrow "defected", like Blake did by running away from team RWBY twice. She also uses her emotions to make decisions, like when she attacked Roman (when Sunn wanted to infiltrate his meeting w/ the White Fang), or ran away from Adam (after he harmed Yang). And Blake's semblance "leaves a copy to take a hit" for her as she retreats, while Marrow's semblance basically forces him to "stands his ground". Plus he joined the military as a "token" faunus for society, while Blake rebelled against society as a member of the White Fang. He's always been a proud faunus, while Blake initially hid that part of herself from her teammates.
@@firepuppies4086 Indeed. It made her going thru "hardships" almost laughable. Plus it made everyone else seem stupid for not knowing that she was the "princess" of the White Fang.
One thing that I wished they explored with the Ace-Ops was there former member, Tortuga. For anyone who doesn't remember, Harriet mentioned before Marrow joined, there was another Ace-Ops named Tortuga. This interested me because of how this character could've effected the Ace-Ops. It was stated that Tortuga died but the it was never directly shown how this character's death effected then rest of the team. Specifically Harriet as Tortuga was probably her partner due to the whole Tortoise and the Hare story. Maybe she's so broken up about Clover's death because she's lost another teammate and friend. I think this could've shown why Harriet and the rest of he Ace-Ops are the way they are, because they already lost someone close to them, and they never what to feel that pain again.
Wouldn't it be Poetic is if the reason Harriet is so about following orders is because she once....Wasn't? Like she'd follow some, but would make her own judgement a-lot, Usually for the best, But sometimes it resulted in problems, Grimm getting to close to Atlus or Even inside of Mantle, Destruction of property, But she still kept doing it. Until the Day she Got Tortuga Killed. Harriet and Tortuga were separated from the rest of their team, Given the orders to stay where they were and to not engage a Grimm, Yet she did anyway, leaving Tortuga behind, She ends up killing the Grimm And retuning to where Tortuga was, Yet not finding her, She searches for a bit, And eventually find's Tortuga, Lying down, unmoving. This breaks the Poor girl, Making her unable to not follow orders or else fear that the rest of her team will die.
@@Jacob_G9 OMG, I can't believe that I never thought about that scenario happening. It's really good. I had my own idea about Tortuga and Harriet's relationship being a rivalry and two always pushing each other to be better. One day on a mission, instead of Harriet not following orders, it was Tortuga who didn't and he was killed soon after. This event would've cemented Harriet's and the others always following orders philosophy.
This just made me feel worse about the writers make them lose to RWBY when they could've easily made Ruby and the others retreat after noticing that they can't take them, but I guess the main team can't have a loss....
Or if they did fight, they lost and had to retreat. It would’ve made the ace ops a goal that team RWBY have to overcome in the next volume. It would make team RWBY grow more as a team and discuss their team dynamic. But weirdly it seems to be the opposite, that fight was the start for the ace ops’ arc of having them grow as a team to get them to develop as characters while team RWBY was the goal they had to reach. It’s ironic, even though the ace ops are side villains, they have a better arc than the main team.
@@enderbrawler6576 True, but they refuse to make team RWBY have flaws for some reason, even yangs PTSD to adam was shoved aside when she met him I don't think the ace ops arc changed because of that fight, they never adressed it between them and was only brought up once when they met again, by the ace ops winning it would not only make it a goal but also make them a real obstacle to team RWBY since they winning only made they look like a joke when they confronted them again
@@vitoralmeida5496 Yeah you’re right, it was a real missed opportunity from the writers. But the only way for RWBY to develop then they have to have flaws which like you said, they apparently don’t have any. For team RWBY to lose they would have to have at least a flaw that they can learn from. If team RWBY could have a flaw I might suggest a lack of trust between them. After all the reason they became fugitives in the first place was because Blake and Yang went behind their backs and sided against Ironwood. This could disrupt their teamwork and allow the ace ops to take the victory. Then they spend the beginning volume 8 split up for a while like in the actual volume and begin to think about their actions. They then can come together and learn to trust one another again, growing as a team. I know it might not have been worded too well, but the point still stands that team RWBY needs a flaw to throw them off their game, allowing them to further explore their team dynamic and begin to grow closer as teammates.
@@vitoralmeida5496 well this show isn't that good, it has really good moments that show potential but most of the time the majority of people will just remember the cool fight animations, it's really a shame.
The biggest problem the Ace Ops had were that the writers seemingly kept vilifying them and saying that their beliefs and motives are wrong simply because they are opposing team RWBY. I don't know why the writers hate morally grey situations and characters, even though that's when the show is at its best. You can have good and evil, but that doesn't mean you can only have good or evil. That does not mean black and white characters cannot exist or be interesting; but reducing characters to such a simple and extreme trait only, just to make your flawless main characters more interesting, all that does is make every character less compelling and hurts the story. Instead of bring down characters just to keep others morally superior, focus instead on creating character development for everyone. Or, if a character does derail, at least make it make sense so the audience can understand how a character can fall from grace.
You know what's funny? I was googling "protagonist-centered morality" and the first suggested searches that popped up was "protagonist-centered morality RWBY".
@@mrsamuel5572 When Monty died everyone at Rooster Teeth ran around yelling "I got an idea for a great character." Management was like, "Sure, why not? We will fit them in somehow."
To be fair, they were only 'dropouts' because their school blew up but yeah, that's what I had a problem with since season 4. The main girls are just the most powerful huntresses in the entire world, so it feels like everyone else has been nerfed into oblivion or are just retarded. Can you think of a single huntsmen that they just bump into and doesn't join their group that showed any level of competence? These are the professional huntsmen who have been doing this for years.
@@SallinKari Thats a big prob that i have with this show. They make team RWBY completly OP when theres no reason for them to be OP or it dosent make sense with the skills of their opponent.
@@goodevening412 Qrow should have been the only reason they weren't horribly murdered by Tyrian rather then someone he mostly fights then Ruby cuts his tail off and he is allowed to waddle away. Would have established they were out of their depth since they were in the 'real' world and there are people a lot more skilled then even Pyrrha which was the previous standard of strength... and one I don't think anyone has managed to reach since the great nerfing.
@@SallinKari Actually, the fight against Tyrian in Volume 4 is rather good : he simply destroys them 1 vs 4, and then goes into an even fight against Qrow. That was realistic. But the power level totally disappeared with volume 5 and after that, because Qrow became part of the team and therefore couldn't be that stronger than the rest of the his partners I guess...
@@the_nephandi4551 You mean where the entire team stands around with their thumbs up their ass? Then Qrow and Ruby stares at each other for like seven seconds until he gets stabbed and then just looks at Ruby again. I can not agree that was a good fight.
They're were written like some wattpad stories where the rest of the cast (ace ops) gets bashed on by the main character (team ruby) and is forced to act stupid and morally unreasonable to make the said main character tell them how to do their job and show that they are least important to the story. Basically it's less of a story and more of characters getting bashed on by writers to make their ideal character look good. This isn't new info especially for a long time rwby fan
Oh my god, I have seen too many stories like that it's so hard to find any good stories. Even when I think I found a hidden gem, it turns out to disappoint me.
@@aragaminightmare9527 Don't worry I've been there before. At first you enjoy then you comeback and realize it's bad or cringe. Ironically you can find stories that are so bad that it is actually good
The AceOps are great because of their connection to Ironwood, as they feel like their inclusion makes sense has his elite team. They should’ve had more time to delve into their personal reasons for doing what they do.
The ace ops were a great concept like most things in rwby which is a reason I'm still watching the show. But the writers just don't fully bring out their concepts or maybe their not capable of doing it. I don't know just my opinion.
I agree Rwbys biggest problem is just communicating it’s ideas and concepts and following through with characters, all the elements are there they just aren’t put together very well
Agreed. The writers genuinely have some great ideas, but then utilize them poorly. It's been a running issue with RWBY for a while that there's some genuinely great stuff in the show, but due to extremely questionable choices in terms of storytelling, character development, and screen time, it gets lost in the shuffle and the show suffers for it.
@@bootlegcrusader1773 I disagree. The biggest flaw of the show is the utter contempt the writers have for the audience. We may only experience the show in the EXACT way miles and kerry envisioned it and if our interpretations don't line up with that they will just gut them in an attemp to force us to have no other perspective. Just look at ironwood's actions through v7 and 8. And add to that the prevailing attitude behind the screen seems to be self-satisfaction when their best work so far story-wise was a filler arc in v6 which they probably didn't even write, and I sinferely want the show taken away from those two pillocks because honestly even yandere dev could write a better story.
10:51 to 11:22 That actually sums up a lot of what's wrong with the writing at it's core. The characters are telling us one thing, but their actions and results of said actions tell a completely different tale. Like Cinder for example. Everyone TALKS about Cinder's ego and lack of teamwork skills is causing her failures yet in the first two seasons she had been in: (She took total control of the criminal underworld, and operations were running smoothly. Cripplied an entire army of the most advanced military androids on the planet and their warships. Force the white fang into recruitment, a terrorist group that would rather die than serve another, especially a human! Stole half of the Fall maidens, powers and crippled her to the point she needed life support. And then killed the maiden and got the other half. Caused a global panic and racial tensions between human and Faunus that still affecting the series to this day. Cut off Yang's arm (Indirectly, but it was still the result of Cinder's actions.). Forced Blake into hiding. Sent Weiss to her room. Found the silver eyes, The only being that can potentially kill salem. Killed Pyrrha and Penny, the strongest students at beacon, both of which are expert combantests who can pull entire airships out the sky without breaking a sweat. And killed Ozpin, who's at the very least, the most experienced hunter who's EVER LIVED.) And all of that was in the first two seasons Cinder appeared. And what is her "failings" according to the show? The divine light of god cripples her and she lost a fight to Raven once. A character mind you, who was already afraid of Salem and had given up long before the season she appeared in started, and hasn't been a threat since. She also happened to be a huntress who's only second to Summer and Ozpin, who also had the maiden powers.........😑 Do you see my point now?
The shows make a the ace ops look like mindless soldiers but there just very loyal and they trust there leader no matter what he does they still stand by iron wood also there special force’s and they knew how to get the job done trying not to show much emotion so yeah there really cool and I would rather see the show around then than rwby team
@@justjillhere1648 stay is broken as fuck he can do it to multiple people at once as well he could straight up freeze the leviathan and Salem in one go and call it a day
I hated how they where executed How did they loose to team RWBY In the first place? They had years of experience and they where training even when beacon was lost
@@steeredshark5542 the two women on the team specifically talked about not holding back during the fight, but then Hare used the excuse we were holding back later. :|
I think another way to look at this than the Ace Ops are underrated is that the Ace Ops are actual characters that grow as time goes on, while team RWBY went into stasis as characters somewhere between Volume 5 and 6 at best and haven't grown since then at all (or have actively regressed as characters at worst). Team RWBY has informed flaws, but those are never used properly to flesh them out. The Ace Ops however feel like real people that work together even if they're not friends at first.
My main problem with the Ace Ops was that I just straight up didn't care. They get such little screen time or interaction with each other that I wasn't even slightly invested in their arc (apart from Marrow, who was at least likable). We can sure infer some things about why they acted the way they did, but I would prefer that it actually got shown. I don't even know if Harriet ever talked to Clover in V7.
@EruptionFang One idea that I wanted to make a video about, that would be kinda pointless because I have like 11 subscribers and 0 videos, is the dynamic of Ruby and Yang in volume 1-3, vs their dynamic in volumes 5-8 (since they didn't really interact much or at all in V4) If you watch the volumes Monty directed, and to a lesser extent volume 3, Yang and Ruby feel natural. Like in one of your videos you mentioned how they should bust each other's balls and come across like they've known each other forever. I think in volume 1-2 they succeed tremendously at this, but scenes like this almost never happen in Volumes 5, 6, 7, and 8. I think the main problem with the core RWBY team is that Yang and Ruby didn't get much in the way of back ground prep time/story. Weiss and Blake got a lot, but Blake wrapped hers up with a bow by herself with some help from Yang at the end with Adam. But Yang herself really has no story, and her biggest moment of weakness and flaw in the show, was done by a character who is now dead. For that reason, Weiss remains the only interesting member of RWBY because she's the only one who still has an ongoing arc, and the only one who can continue to grow.
Ace ops losing to team RWBY was like Optimus losing to Bumblebee, Goku to Gohan, Batman to Nightwing or Superman to Superboy (Connor). Like, yeah, their "sidekicks" have potential and experiencie but come on....Best hunters my a**.
@@itsjustvin7630 In a fair fight? Tim? I doubt it. Nightwing and Cassandra Cain (Batgirl II/Black Bat/Orphan) are the only ones in the Batfamily who can beat him in a fair fight.
Honestly, Harriet reminds me of Locus from RvB. Though, I feel like if they try to make Harriet "Switch Sides" [-Emerald] then they would just remove all of her interesting traits. Like what they did with Whitley.
I feel like the writers' wanted to focus on the Ace Ops, just as much as the whole main cast. However, because of time, it doesn't work out well. Personally, I wish they did 30-45 minute episodes rather than 17-22 minutes. Those extra minutes can give a more in-depth look of the whole story. It makes me want to create my own version of the series like I did with RvB. I found the storyline to be lacking, so I made a storyline that satisfied my want for more content. Quite sad that it's not canon xD. But, I feel like RT is doing too much of everything. They need to take a break from some content in order to make current content better. RvB (again, I know this is RWBY) had a team from Death Battle directing it. It's moments like this that I feel like they need to set out and find a solid team to work on RWBY. One where the writers understand the dynamic of every character and even puts into action the lessons they learned (and not kill off characters they don't like). That would revive the show.
Take a break from some content? Look at how much they did drop to focus on RWBY and RvB. Camp camp, I’m pretty sure about camp camp. Gen Lock, Nomad of Nowhere, RWBY chibi, and I don’t know what else. But all things that did have pretty good potential
Vine is my favorite character in this show without a doubt while I've given up on this series I actually really liked his character and how they can't ruin him like they did Iron wood because he's dead so best character for me
I’m glad someone actually pointed out ruby chucking Harriet I remember the first I sore that I was like bruh not cool and didn’t even like Harriet that much
They were underrated because they didn't have plot power on their side. We were supposed to believe that THESE were the best Atlas has to offer? And these veteran huntsmen got folded by a bunch of first-years?
I think the reasoning behind them losing to team RWBY was their lack of teamwork. I don’t mean that “they weren’t friends so they couldn’t have won” that’s stupid, what I mean is their fighting wasn’t in sync. If you look back at the fight, the ace ops were actively arguing against each other and not really working together. They were acting on their own emotions and that was their downfall. So overall, the ace ops could absolutely mop the floor with team RWBY, they just needed to start acting like a unit and stay on the same page.
@@enderbrawler6576 even not fighting as a team isn't an excuse in this one. None of them were actively interfering or messing with each other in their individual fights, so this wasn't a 4v4 so much as it was 4 1v1s. In which case the Aces should STILL have won. They're more experienced, and they're skilled enough to be called Atlas' best. They absolutely should be able to hold their own in a 1v1 or even a 2v1 against a bunch of first year kids. The power scaling in this show is just bullshit. We see veterans like Tyrian decimate 4 kids on his own, but the best Huntsmen in Atlas can't even handle 1, let alone 2 of them? Mercury beat down Cocoa and Yatsuhashi, both of which are a year older and yet he made them look like nothing at all. Granted yes: he has been trained since birth; but he still showed no signs of wearing out between them. I would think that the Ace Ops should at least be at that level of skill, since they are fully qualified graduated Huntsmen who each EARNED their place in the Aces.
@@Evilman_520 Yeah you’re right about the power scaling, it’s pretty inconsistent and is whatever the plot needs it to be. And you’re right about the ace ops loss not being right, if they did win it probably could’ve led to an arc for team RWBY to grow as a team. It probably might have been a better idea to make the ace ops third or fourth year students of Atlas instead of being full on huntsman, that way their loss can be slightly excused while keeping that upperclassman relationship they have with the main cast. Although I might have some doubt about the part with Emerald and Mercury. While they are a year younger than team CVFY you have to remember the circumstances behind the fight. The entire tournament was rigged from the start, the matchups and the terrain were in their favor while team CVFY were clueless. Emerald and Mercury knew who they were fighting and were fully prepared on how to beat them, it also didn’t help CVFY that they fought head on while Emerald and Mercury fought with sneak attacks and trickery. If the circumstances were different, it probably wouldn’t have been so one sided. It was less about who was more powerful and more about who had the strategic advantage.
Hmph. That seems to be a funny thing RWBY manages to do. Manage to pull off a lot of brilliance with something they seemingly give little focus or screentime to. Now, I certainly do wish that Vine got to stick around longer.
I've never watched a single episode of RWBY in my life but these breakdown videos are really fun and interesting to listen too. Your commentary is great.
I've said this before, but I really do appreciate these deep dives into characters rather than just watching someone react and bitch about everything. I feel like I appreciate the ace ops more now thanks to this. Well done
I hated how Vine died in Arrow Ragman used his rags to absorb a nuke and lost his powers as a result so I thought vine would just cover the bomb and jump off the ship as there was a other ship to land on but nope.
Vine wouldn’t have been able to hold it from the outside. The shockwave of the explosion has to find a way out. The funnel he’d create by extending his arms would be a one way trip direct back to him. He would’ve died either way unfortunately
Is too bad that the Ace-oops got nerf to have team Rwby win can't wait for more higher level huntsmans get their butt whoop by bunch of kid's because all they need to do is disagree with them , and team Rwby will power up their mary sues plot armor , to teach them a lesson but not the other way around , am pretty sure any show I watch the main characters has a hard time beating their mentors , because the mentors got more expeice frighting to teach the students Naruto Fairy tail DB and DBZ Avatar TLA MHA Bleach Inuyasha
@Games Eh, the writing is wonky in V7 and 8 in general, so I won't let that affect my opinion of Weiss. At some point I might just decide I don't care about those volumes and never rewatch them.
When we were first introduced to the Ace Ops, I loved them, I found them to be awesome and was happy to see more actual Huntsmen and then was proceeded to be disappointed at the end of volume 7 and the start of 8 but I did like them at the end of 8, where you showed, Harriet and Vine got some development. Oddly enough they are my favourites of the Ace Ops.
@@Ramsey276one honestly, the Ace Ops should have curbstomped RWBY, since power scaling, flawed as it is, nevertheless shows Clover as equal to Qrow in skill, and assuming that we give the benefit of the doubt that his teammates are less skilled, they'd be around Winter level, which again makes no sense as to how they lost, other than the idiot ball was being tossed around more than death flags in Volumes 3, 5, and 6.
@@scarletshadow4548 Facts right there. Thats how some people felt about the adam vs yang & blake fight. Yang only trained against her dad with fists, while Blake never really trained at all. During vol 6 they only fought grimm. So the power scaling would have had Adam at the top with blake & yang below him yet blake & yang won even though they wernt really fighting him at the same time much, it was more taking turns.
Plot armor in what sense. Cause they definitely dont win every fight. They SHOULD have lost to Ace Ops but if they HAD to win....shit they shouldve all looked exhausted, battered, bruised and barely standing. Id say they have plot armor in the sense where they appear to be always right and the people opposing are somehow in the wrong.
The fact that writers and the show imply that even though the ace ops are on a team, but aren't friends as bad thing. It childish. Like in life sometimes you'll work very well with people who aren't your friends.
Well let's see in volume 3's ending yang lost an arm weiss was forced to go back home blake felt like an outcast and left to go back home and ruby set off with jaune nora and ren so yeah I know how you feel
*Each member also has a parallel to someone in Salem’s faction in my opinion (Minus Clover).* *Harriet - Tyrian (Most loyal to their leader).* *Vine - Watts (Most level headed).* *Elm - Hazel (Biggest and most intimidating).* *Marrow - Emerald (Most likely to defect to the good guys).*
The more I watch these videos the more I see the diamonds in the rough that could've made the show more than what it is. Showing characters that have flaws that force them to rethink and grow is what a long series should focus on. But for team RWBY that's not the case. The heroes are meant to be perfect while others are just in the background and are then demonized if they stand up to the main characters. I would've loved to have seen the story behind how the Acs Ops were formed and how they interacted with each other when they weren't on duty.
I actually agree with everything you said about the Ace Operatives, it was perfectly well reasoned and you clearly put a lot of time and effort into this video and analysis.
Watching this video makes me feel like following the Ace-Ops would make for a more unique and genuinely better story. I mean it would be shorter and they would have to drop the whitefang stuff, which might bring some much needed focus as I always felt as if it was a different story entirely as it never impacts the world that much and only 50% of the main characters. So maybe that would be better handled as. A spin-off so that it could be handled with more depth and focus. Heck maybe you could still include it in the Ace-Ops show but make it another plotpoint that develops them or something. I feel like I just want some active and really dynamic characters that are consistent in their characterization. Because going of the principle that your main characters should be the most interesting ones when all the good ones, so the interesting ones, so basically Iron wood the ace-ops and winter, are located in Atlas maybe make the show about atlas.
Harriet is kinda like Locust, being (or in Locust's case wanting to be) the best warrior by following orders but it also ultimately being their biggest faults
I did believe harriet was the best ace op because she has development and had flaws. I kinda hate how I didn't notice how nice harriet design was until the last episode of volume 8 like what where was she the last two volumes. I am glad this video shed light on the hidden story of the Ace ops and their dynamic, etc. Great video man 💕💕❤️
I'm gonna be honest, I really loved the AceOps, specifically Clover, and especially Harriet. You make so many good points about both of them, and I really wish we saw more of their characters and that their relationship was better shown. Its absolutely my personal headcanon that Harriet was crushing on Clover, but never wanted to admit it.
It’s very funny how people dislike Harriet so much even though she is one of the most well written characters in the show. Meanwhile they like ruby because they have to like ruby cause the show is called rwby
Them being defeated by RWBY without a single scratch was so aggravating to watch that I wish a new, more competent writer that doesn't have an easily bruised ego was hired to introduce a new villain that utterly curb-stomps RWBY and friends just to teach them some much needed humility
The reason Vine had to sacrifice himself was the one, easily missed line of "We'll never make it out of the blast zone in time!" which, if the bomb had that big of a blast radius....HOW FUCKING STRONG WAS VINE TO BE ABLE TO REDUCE IT THAT MUCH???? No fuckin wonder they had to kill him off, he would have taken Salem down by his own damn self if given the chance.
Loved this video, super interesting. When you were talking about Winter's defection feeling un-impactful for the group, it made me think about how interesting it would have been if Clover had survived v7 and gone through Winter's exact arc (minus maiden stuff) from v8. So, what if in v7, Qrow developed a relationship with Winter and became friends with her instead of Clover, and she died? Giving both Qrow and Weiss strong motivators going into v8, and then Clover could begin to question Ironwood during Salem's invasion, making his eventual defection really impactful on his team. Anyway loved the video, great stuff as usual!
Very well said. Personally I love the Ace Ops, super underrated and I hope they stick around. Particularly Harriet is really unfairly hated. Something so frustrating about the RWBY fandom is that they're unique in disliking characters for having flaws, moral complexity or just aren't nice. I've never seen such drastic emotions in any other fandom. Anyway I love the Ace Ops and hope they stick around for a bit.
He was seriously emotionless and as stuck up as Harriet. At least even Elm had some sort of doubt from her expressions and body language, but he just went “friend.” Out of nowhere.
I wish they could make a book prequel of just the ace ops (kinda like what they did with team cfvy) they are so interesting and gosh you just put into words the reason why I couldn't hate Harriet like other people did
All this man speaks is facts. I see how people don{t enjoy the ASOPS because they're taking up screentime from the main cast. But it is funny how the writers developed those characters much better in 1-2 volumes than the main characters for 8 volumes.
Team RWBY are a quartet of Mary Sues. They are without flaw AND fault, which makes it even harder to root for them when the antagonistic characters like the Ace Ops have a personality
Nice Analysis. I'll be honest, I want this series to have true Bad Ending. They constantly reinforce this theme that their isn't fairy tale ending and strength will never lead to victory. Yet RWBY group constantly tries to strength through anyway, there actively against theme of story on every account and there actions always lead to diaster, even good ones. It sort always been sort hope that it case where at end they fail, there decisions were shortsided and most die aside from those four. Repeat of the same fate that Team STRQ had. Since Ozpin has always been protagonist of deciet and Salem an antagonist of truth. Ruby to have actual mental breakdown and actually break to prove that all she even did is shove her emotions down and wear mask of happiness.
I feel Rwby is telling its story to quickly. Monty said that the ending of season 2 now is the ending of season 3. I feel like rwby should do this more. I don't mind having a few filler episodes if we have less rushed story.
Do you think the ending of season 3 would have been quite that dark thematically if Monty hadn't died? I feel like the ending of season 3 was the butterfly's wings that ruined later seasons with a hurricane.
I half expected you to say after your opening statement on waisted potential for characters... "But enough about Team RWBY, let's talk about the Ace Ops."
And now that they're stuck with Qrow and *grins* Robyn maybe their characters can be further developed, y'know now that they're apart of the "good guys" Hopefully some lingering resentment towards Marrow, from either Harriet or Elm (maybe both)
To me the Ace Ops really helped bring me back into RWBY. To me they carried the spirit of original couple of volumes. Of them I think elm is the weakest as her semblance just seems to be a weaker version of vines and her weapon seems to similar to Noras.
I feel like you missed talking about Harriet's attachment to Clover, which honestly felt more like the big dilemma for her character, with her following Ironwood's orders being the channel/vector for a lot of the pent up sadness and straight up anger she felt at Qrow and the others for what she thought was Qrow having killed Clover. She of all the characters was the most emotional and straight up angry about following these orders to the letter and refusing to see reason, with only her getting another friend killed by her sheer stubbornness breaking this. Winter's dilemma felt a lot different in that regard, as she clearly was having a moral dilemma with Ironwood for awhile, while Harriet only really broke when her teammates/friends were involved.
The real problem with the ace-ops, the reason nobody likes them, is their horrible “first impression”. I’m talking about the first real fight we saw them in, the one with team rwby. They were wi-Ed out CLEANLY by a group of kids because.... friendship? If at least Harriet or marrow had won their fights and we got a round 2 that was another 2v2 that might’ve softened the blow but as it stands, the best of the best lost to the worst of the worst
My prefered scenarios wouldve been: - Marrow leaves with the exhausted injured Ironwood, because they know Cinder is there and theorize Hazel is there to, so RWBY gets a 4v3 which is a bit more believeable -Marrow just uses his semblance on his own team and lets RWBY go for reasons I guess
I am going to stop watching RWBY and just watch your videos on them. When you cover RWBY I am filled with hope, intrigue and excitement. When I watch the actual show, I am usually saddened and disappointed.
This shows main weakness at the moment are the main characers, which means that the show is best when focusing on others(like JNR, Oscar, Ozpin, the Ace Ops etc).
Seriously. Why was it only these five (plus Winter)? Atlas, out of all the Kingdoms, are the ones who have most integrated their Huntsmen into an actual organised force. Why the hell aren't there entire platoons' worth of these teams working in conjunction with Atlas' other soldiers to do their jobs and actually help out during the evacuation? Why did Ruby's group have to pick up the slack? Where is the actual chain of command, other than just Ironwood being on top?
Personaly, I would have just love that the Ace Ops weren't completely new characters. Instead of introducing and killing an entire new team in two volumes, I would have maybe preferred the Ace Ops to be Penny teammates. I would have kept Clover, Harriet and Marrow, remove Elm and Given Vine role to Ciel instead. Doing so would have boosted their signification, even more from Penny perspective.
They were like the DINOBOTS of transformers, powerful and potentially interesting. But in the hands of 2 writers with the obsession of bad representations
Wow, if i didnt know better, you either are an avid reader, a lit major or a film major. . . . or none of these but possessing such keen understanding of narratives. succinctly put, ideas i tried to write but couldnt find the major threads to do so. XD
I definitely think the Atlas arc should've been longer. 2 Volumes doesn't equal the same story progression. Especially if one volume only lasts for like 2 in-series days. We barely got around to see what Atlas "the greatest kingdom" looks like. Only Mantle and part of the academy. We know that the Atlas people up there barely seen Grimm but it doesn't get addressed. With making an extra arc between V7 and V8, they could've expanded on their world building, flesh out their characters like Ace Ops and Happy Huntresses. Also it could've worked better with Ironwoods trust issues and paranoia. Salems plan was always to make him paranoid and the theme "trust love" from team rwby was supposed to work against that. They managed to calm IW down in the Schnee Manor and then everyone worked together for Mantle. But then IW got paranoid again. Tbh if I didn't watch IW compilations, I wouldn't have noticed most of what his character arc was about and how close he was to actually overcome his paranoia. My suggestion would've been to put the Jacques election part in a 7.5 volume ( so like between V7 and V8) . This would've given us more time on the Happy Huntresses Mantle and Ace Ops Atlas parallel, make an actual good Schnee arc, make the villains appear more threatening. You know? End the V7 with the scene of Watts entering Jacques office after we had V7 focused on Mantle, Happy Huntresses, Atlas, Ace Ops, IW and Schneeblings. And then do the whole election thing with Penny being framed in V7.5 and then do the actual tragedy like it happened in v8
The problem with Ace OPS is that they had great potential to develop the story and let team RWBY develop positively, but they were essentially only used to show how wrong Atlas (or rather, Ironwood) were wrong and to show that friendship trumps logic and sometimes having to make difficult decisions. They were essentially just a foil to make team RWBY look good.
My opinions on each of the Ace-Ops. (Excluding Winter) Clover - I like him, though a bit overrated but I did cry when he died. Harriet - She didn't learn until the final episode of Volume 8 and she was just "following orders" instead of thinking for herself. And I hate her personality too. Yes, it's a good flaw that should be needed but I hate it. Elm - She may have a bit of a temper tantrum like Yang but I founded her hilarious. Though her Semblance sucked though. Vine - He's the most calmest and tries to resolve things peacefully first. I love his design and personality and I actually cried when he sacrificed himself to save his friends and Qrow. Marrow - My favourite member because he may be hilarious, but he goes through a character progression in Volume 8 thinking what he was doing is "really" the right thing to do and his defection makes the most sense. I love him so much.
I think the main problem is that because the main characters are underutilized and because of this people like you are more invested in the side characters. When we think about it it seems like it's a bit unfamiliar to the show to do this but : - Ren and Nora are one of the most developed characters - Qrow were conflicted during the last volume but I think pushing him aside is a bit disappointing - So many side characters and side stories are there and team Rwby aren't interesting enough so you get invested in the side characters and it's a vicious circle - I would be invested if one of those girls would become a maiden for... Well... Have a purpose in the plot because it's a bit sad to se unexploited materials
I knew from their design alone that they werent going to be anything worth while. They didnt wow me with their introduction, It was just a matter of time before they died in my eyes.
It feels like every good character in RWBY is either bearly used or dead.
Or both
IRONWOOD FOREVER
Raven got pretty much booth for the show
Or mangled, and butchered beyond any recognition...
Pyrrha, Torchwick, Team CFVY, Sun, Neptune, Qrow, all the students from the Vytal Festival tournament, Raven, Sienna, Kali, Penny, the list goes on and on. Can’t wait ‘til we get to see how Tyrion gets butchered.
One idea that I wanted to make a video about is the dynamic of Ruby and Yang in volume 1-3, vs their dynamic in volumes 5-8 (since they didn't really interact much or at all in V4).
If you watch the early volumes Monty directed, and to a lesser extent volume 3, Yang and Ruby feel natural. Like, in one of EruptionFang's videos he mentioned how they should bust each other's balls and come across like they've known each other forever. I think in volume 1-2 they succeed tremendously at this, but scenes like this almost never happen in Volumes 5, 6, 7, and 8.
I think the main problem with the core RWBY team is that Yang and Ruby didn't get much in the way of back ground prep time/story. Weiss and Blake got a lot, but Blake wrapped hers up with a bow by herself with some help from Yang at the end with Adam. But Yang herself really has no story, and her biggest moment of weakness and flaw in the show, was done by a character who is now dead.
For that reason, Weiss remains the only interesting member of RWBY because she's the only one who still has an ongoing arc, and the only one who can continue to grow. Ruby and Yang need a back story and drive explored, and Blake needs a reason to exist post-Adam.
"Good friends are there when it's needed, not just convenient."
*SUN.*
Good video but I couldn't help growling at the screen this is *exactly* what made Sun a good friend more than anyone in RWBY.
EXACTLY
And then they shoved him out because his fights were expensive to animate and they could make room for bumblebee.
@@SallinKari Why not be even more progressive and make it a Poly Relationship at that Point? 😆🙄
I hate to quote Tumblr, but "Blake has two Hands".
@@johannesseyfried7933 Hey, it might have a little spice. I feel that bumblebee as they did is just... so they can say they did it. Those two are so bland together -_-
If you're going to have relationships... put some god damn effort into them, otherwise don't bother... Though same could be said for many of their plot points.
Yes I agree I just re watched s4 and sun feels more like a friend to Blake than the rest of team rwby yeah he followed her and invaded her privacy but he did it to make sure she was okay and stuck around even when he almost got killed multiple times I’m sad we didn’t see him this volume except for in ep 5 for like 1 second
For me the Ace ops as a group left me with the same feeling as the white fang, "good idea, shit execution".
There’s nothing in the group that tells you these guys are on a different level than regular hunters. It just tells you they’re better than there are in atlas and then make a fool out of them.
But on the plus side, their losses helped them grow as characters and as a team. Ironically they are better at being main characters than the actual main characters. But I see what you mean about the execution and you’re right.
If volume 7 could rewrite the ace ops, it could be a good idea that instead of making them “the best hunters in Atlas” make them second or third year students of Atlas Academy, that way they can still act like the military and work under Ironwood since he is the headmaster and keep that upperclassman relationship they have with the main cast. As a bonus, because they are also students, it wouldn’t be so unbelievable that they lost to team RWBY because of their flaws. They can develop as characters without the complaints that they should have won.
@@enderbrawler6576
Actually having the Ace Ops be the highest academy students would make more sense. They are not full on Hunters but the highest of the academy’s senior years.
It would make them the Young Guard of Atlas Military. While the Middle Guard are made up of Atlas trained Hunters and Huntresses and the Old Guard made up of the Elite and most Veteran of the Atlas Hunters.
This would make them an elite troop but still give them that youth and inexperience and the chance to learn and make mistakes.
It would also be good as this could play into the fall of Mantle and Atlas arc too. Why does Ironwood turn to nuking the city? Cause his elite units in the middle guard and old guard are gone. Killed holding the line and now with the city overrun the best option they have to potentially wipe out the greatest number of enemies + force Salem into a regeneration period would be to nuke the city and take whatever surviving academy students and soldiers to the next kingdom to make another stand.
You can have the conflict of these guys having to step up and take the place of the veterans as such their loyalty is almost doubled due to the stress of the situation, but at the same time they are still young and conflicted as these are their people and they don’t want to abandon/kill them
@@reecedignan8365 Yeah, that makes their story sound way more compelling, trying to live up to their superiors which explains their almost stubborn loyalty to Ironwood while also keeping Ironwood as a morally grey antagonist who is backed into a corner and just wants to save what’s left of Atlas and Mantle.
@@enderbrawler6576
Simple as, If I could rewrite Ironwood arc from season 5-8 I’d of had him wrote similar to General Kerensky of Battletech fame - if you do not know of this character and wish to learn about him, may I suggest watching Tex Talks Battletechs two episodes on the Fall of Star League and The Amaris Civil War.
@@reecedignan8365 Yeah I’m a bit uncultured so I don’t don’t really know who that is. But you peaked my interest on it, I’ll give it a watch.
Them only seeing each other as coworkers already made no sense as in real life, Special Operations teams see each other as family and a band of brothers.
Exactly. What’s made immensely clear by the Ace-Ops is that the writers have no clue how the military operates. This is a profession where you need to trust others with your life, it’s a profession built on cooperation and loyalty. I’m sorry, but no, especially on a team like this, you aren’t “just teammates”, not when you’ve gone through the shit I’m presuming they have as special forces. Man, I mean even the effort soldiers go through just to secure the bodies of *DECEASED* comrades is truly incredible, and I doubt this would happen if soldiers didn’t naturally develop unique relationships that are far deeper than “just teammates”.
It also didnt make sense to how Ironwood leads the kingdom. Yeah he's no-nonsense. But he's not no-emotion. It just makes me wonder why they chose to make them seem robotic qhen the top of the top himself isn't a robotic type of man.
@@pandanator6681 Ironwood wanted them more loyal to him than each other. Apparently he had hidden paranoiac tendencies already, given his comment about "chasing a lot of shadows over the years".
.
Bu-bu-but MILITARY BAD! /s
@@pandanator6681 you know whats weird: dont they have a few employees with military backgrounds like geoff?
RWBY fighting Ace ops: 🕺🏃♀️🏋️♂️🤸♀️🤺🤾♂️🏌️♀️🏄♂️🏊♂️
RWBY fighting cinder: 👼
Well Cinder got some plot reinforced Aura and endurance during the finale, somehow took that away from the protags along with the relics.
I disagree about Marrow, who's clearly the Ace Ops' counterpart to Blake. He's a dog to her cat faunus, has a "dark" complexion compared to her "pale" one, & his faunus trait is "low" on his body, while hers is "high". Marrow "defected", like Blake did by running away from team RWBY twice. She also uses her emotions to make decisions, like when she attacked Roman (when Sunn wanted to infiltrate his meeting w/ the White Fang), or ran away from Adam (after he harmed Yang). And Blake's semblance "leaves a copy to take a hit" for her as she retreats, while Marrow's semblance basically forces him to "stands his ground". Plus he joined the military as a "token" faunus for society, while Blake rebelled against society as a member of the White Fang. He's always been a proud faunus, while Blake initially hid that part of herself from her teammates.
I haven't looked at his semblance that way. Standing his ground instead of running away? That's really amazing!
Interesting, and instead of fighting from the outside in rebellions
Marrow would change their opinion from the inside, a good soldier and honest man
@@TUCell-ps5mi Indeed. And unlike Blake, he didn't do it from a "privileged" background (as she's the daughter of a former White Fang leader).
@@Blackblax Blake turning into a princess kinda hurt her backstory a bit...
@@firepuppies4086 Indeed. It made her going thru "hardships" almost laughable. Plus it made everyone else seem stupid for not knowing that she was the "princess" of the White Fang.
One thing that I wished they explored with the Ace-Ops was there former member, Tortuga. For anyone who doesn't remember, Harriet mentioned before Marrow joined, there was another Ace-Ops named Tortuga.
This interested me because of how this character could've effected the Ace-Ops. It was stated that Tortuga died but the it was never directly shown how this character's death effected then rest of the team.
Specifically Harriet as Tortuga was probably her partner due to the whole Tortoise and the Hare story. Maybe she's so broken up about Clover's death because she's lost another teammate and friend.
I think this could've shown why Harriet and the rest of he Ace-Ops are the way they are, because they already lost someone close to them, and they never what to feel that pain again.
Wouldn't it be Poetic is if the reason Harriet is so about following orders is because she once....Wasn't? Like she'd follow some, but would make her own judgement a-lot, Usually for the best, But sometimes it resulted in problems, Grimm getting to close to Atlus or Even inside of Mantle, Destruction of property, But she still kept doing it.
Until the Day she Got Tortuga Killed.
Harriet and Tortuga were separated from the rest of their team, Given the orders to stay where they were and to not engage a Grimm, Yet she did anyway, leaving Tortuga behind, She ends up killing the Grimm And retuning to where Tortuga was, Yet not finding her, She searches for a bit, And eventually find's Tortuga, Lying down, unmoving.
This breaks the Poor girl, Making her unable to not follow orders or else fear that the rest of her team will die.
@@Jacob_G9 damn, i want a whole episode or 2 just for Harriet alone
@@Jacob_G9 OMG, I can't believe that I never thought about that scenario happening. It's really good.
I had my own idea about Tortuga and Harriet's relationship being a rivalry and two always pushing each other to be better. One day on a mission, instead of Harriet not following orders, it was Tortuga who didn't and he was killed soon after. This event would've cemented Harriet's and the others always following orders philosophy.
@@StarGazerINF ....I Like that one Too, and it makes just as much sense!
You have your ideas fanfiction make it happen
This just made me feel worse about the writers make them lose to RWBY when they could've easily made Ruby and the others retreat after noticing that they can't take them, but I guess the main team can't have a loss....
Or if they did fight, they lost and had to retreat. It would’ve made the ace ops a goal that team RWBY have to overcome in the next volume. It would make team RWBY grow more as a team and discuss their team dynamic. But weirdly it seems to be the opposite, that fight was the start for the ace ops’ arc of having them grow as a team to get them to develop as characters while team RWBY was the goal they had to reach. It’s ironic, even though the ace ops are side villains, they have a better arc than the main team.
@@enderbrawler6576 True, but they refuse to make team RWBY have flaws for some reason, even yangs PTSD to adam was shoved aside when she met him
I don't think the ace ops arc changed because of that fight, they never adressed it between them and was only brought up once when they met again, by the ace ops winning it would not only make it a goal but also make them a real obstacle to team RWBY since they winning only made they look like a joke when they confronted them again
@@vitoralmeida5496 Yeah you’re right, it was a real missed opportunity from the writers. But the only way for RWBY to develop then they have to have flaws which like you said, they apparently don’t have any. For team RWBY to lose they would have to have at least a flaw that they can learn from.
If team RWBY could have a flaw I might suggest a lack of trust between them. After all the reason they became fugitives in the first place was because Blake and Yang went behind their backs and sided against Ironwood. This could disrupt their teamwork and allow the ace ops to take the victory. Then they spend the beginning volume 8 split up for a while like in the actual volume and begin to think about their actions. They then can come together and learn to trust one another again, growing as a team.
I know it might not have been worded too well, but the point still stands that team RWBY needs a flaw to throw them off their game, allowing them to further explore their team dynamic and begin to grow closer as teammates.
@@vitoralmeida5496 well this show isn't that good, it has really good moments that show potential but most of the time the majority of people will just remember the cool fight animations, it's really a shame.
Cuz plot armor
Underutilized. Undermined. Underwhelming unfairly. Yeah. They're a few things
Also underestimated character cause they lost to Team RWBY👍
@@kingraplhmativo5178 BIG facts. Easily. Side note. Hope you're doin well mate 🖤
Forgot they existed
@Brandon H #TeamWhitley!
@@RenSenpai7 🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹
for a volume that is centered around creation they surely weren’t as.... creative
YEEEEEAAAAAAAH
*guitar riff*
Good one!
That reminds me, what's your favorite idea =))
@@АнтонДегидонов mine is being creative
Well that's kinda RWBY for you. Something good ends up wasted or dead... or both.
Shame, cause i liked that spiritual guy and the tank lady.
The biggest problem the Ace Ops had were that the writers seemingly kept vilifying them and saying that their beliefs and motives are wrong simply because they are opposing team RWBY. I don't know why the writers hate morally grey situations and characters, even though that's when the show is at its best. You can have good and evil, but that doesn't mean you can only have good or evil. That does not mean black and white characters cannot exist or be interesting; but reducing characters to such a simple and extreme trait only, just to make your flawless main characters more interesting, all that does is make every character less compelling and hurts the story. Instead of bring down characters just to keep others morally superior, focus instead on creating character development for everyone. Or, if a character does derail, at least make it make sense so the audience can understand how a character can fall from grace.
You know what's funny? I was googling "protagonist-centered morality" and the first suggested searches that popped up was "protagonist-centered morality RWBY".
I was rooting for ace-ops everytime they fought RWBY/RNBW
RNBW??? Who that?
@@deathxanamon7211 Ruby, Nora, Blake, Weiss
@@AlbinoHarambe1 oh thanks
Side characters in RWBY are so much better than all of the main characters at this point
Meaning something is VERY WRONG
Bingo
@@mrsamuel5572 When Monty died everyone at Rooster Teeth ran around yelling "I got an idea for a great character." Management was like, "Sure, why not? We will fit them in somehow."
Which is probably not saying much
I just wish they didn't lose to team rwby. its like, the guys are the best of the best losing to highschool dropouts.
To be fair, they were only 'dropouts' because their school blew up but yeah, that's what I had a problem with since season 4. The main girls are just the most powerful huntresses in the entire world, so it feels like everyone else has been nerfed into oblivion or are just retarded. Can you think of a single huntsmen that they just bump into and doesn't join their group that showed any level of competence? These are the professional huntsmen who have been doing this for years.
@@SallinKari Thats a big prob that i have with this show. They make team RWBY completly OP when theres no reason for them to be OP or it dosent make sense with the skills of their opponent.
@@goodevening412 Qrow should have been the only reason they weren't horribly murdered by Tyrian rather then someone he mostly fights then Ruby cuts his tail off and he is allowed to waddle away. Would have established they were out of their depth since they were in the 'real' world and there are people a lot more skilled then even Pyrrha which was the previous standard of strength... and one I don't think anyone has managed to reach since the great nerfing.
@@SallinKari Actually, the fight against Tyrian in Volume 4 is rather good : he simply destroys them 1 vs 4, and then goes into an even fight against Qrow. That was realistic.
But the power level totally disappeared with volume 5 and after that, because Qrow became part of the team and therefore couldn't be that stronger than the rest of the his partners I guess...
@@the_nephandi4551 You mean where the entire team stands around with their thumbs up their ass? Then Qrow and Ruby stares at each other for like seven seconds until he gets stabbed and then just looks at Ruby again. I can not agree that was a good fight.
They're were written like some wattpad stories where the rest of the cast (ace ops) gets bashed on by the main character (team ruby) and is forced to act stupid and morally unreasonable to make the said main character tell them how to do their job and show that they are least important to the story. Basically it's less of a story and more of characters getting bashed on by writers to make their ideal character look good. This isn't new info especially for a long time rwby fan
Oh my god, I have seen too many stories like that it's so hard to find any good stories. Even when I think I found a hidden gem, it turns out to disappoint me.
@@aragaminightmare9527 Don't worry I've been there before. At first you enjoy then you comeback and realize it's bad or cringe. Ironically you can find stories that are so bad that it is actually good
Im suprised your still a fan
@@matthewdeleon382 what's that suppose to mean exactly?
@@laumondsenior1625 oh, are you still a fan?
The AceOps are great because of their connection to Ironwood, as they feel like their inclusion makes sense has his elite team. They should’ve had more time to delve into their personal reasons for doing what they do.
The ace ops were a great concept like most things in rwby which is a reason I'm still watching the show. But the writers just don't fully bring out their concepts or maybe their not capable of doing it. I don't know just my opinion.
I agree
Rwbys biggest problem is just communicating it’s ideas and concepts and following through with characters, all the elements are there they just aren’t put together very well
Agreed. The writers genuinely have some great ideas, but then utilize them poorly. It's been a running issue with RWBY for a while that there's some genuinely great stuff in the show, but due to extremely questionable choices in terms of storytelling, character development, and screen time, it gets lost in the shuffle and the show suffers for it.
@@bootlegcrusader1773 I disagree. The biggest flaw of the show is the utter contempt the writers have for the audience. We may only experience the show in the EXACT way miles and kerry envisioned it and if our interpretations don't line up with that they will just gut them in an attemp to force us to have no other perspective. Just look at ironwood's actions through v7 and 8. And add to that the prevailing attitude behind the screen seems to be self-satisfaction when their best work so far story-wise was a filler arc in v6 which they probably didn't even write, and I sinferely want the show taken away from those two pillocks because honestly even yandere dev could write a better story.
10:51 to 11:22 That actually sums up a lot of what's wrong with the writing at it's core. The characters are telling us one thing, but their actions and results of said actions tell a completely different tale. Like Cinder for example. Everyone TALKS about Cinder's ego and lack of teamwork skills is causing her failures yet in the first two seasons she had been in:
(She took total control of the criminal underworld, and operations were running smoothly.
Cripplied an entire army of the most advanced military androids on the planet and their warships.
Force the white fang into recruitment, a terrorist group that would rather die than serve another, especially a human!
Stole half of the Fall maidens, powers and crippled her to the point she needed life support. And then killed the maiden and got the other half.
Caused a global panic and racial tensions between human and Faunus that still affecting the series to this day.
Cut off Yang's arm (Indirectly, but it was still the result of Cinder's actions.).
Forced Blake into hiding.
Sent Weiss to her room.
Found the silver eyes, The only being that can potentially kill salem.
Killed Pyrrha and Penny, the strongest students at beacon, both of which are expert combantests who can pull entire airships out the sky without breaking a sweat.
And killed Ozpin, who's at the very least, the most experienced hunter who's EVER LIVED.)
And all of that was in the first two seasons Cinder appeared. And what is her "failings" according to the show? The divine light of god cripples her and she lost a fight to Raven once. A character mind you, who was already afraid of Salem and had given up long before the season she appeared in started, and hasn't been a threat since. She also happened to be a huntress who's only second to Summer and Ozpin, who also had the maiden powers.........😑 Do you see my point now?
"She also happened to be a Hunter who's only second to Summer and Ozpin..."
Wait, when did the show say this?
The shows make a the ace ops look like mindless soldiers but there just very loyal and they trust there leader no matter what he does they still stand by iron wood also there special force’s and they knew how to get the job done trying not to show much emotion so yeah there really cool and I would rather see the show around then than rwby team
Human Zenyatta deserves a statue AS TALL AS PYRHA’S
No torches, please
XD
Pyrrha's statue was ugly so I'll have to pass.
Why is no one talking about how terrifying a character like Marrow is?
Why Marrrow?
@@justjillhere1648 one word
ZA WARUDO!!!
@@justjillhere1648 stay is broken as fuck he can do it to multiple people at once as well he could straight up freeze the leviathan and Salem in one go and call it a day
@@TSH425 Man if Marrow was there in the Salem fight, Hazel wouldn’t have to hold her down and he wouldn’t die
I hated how they where executed How did they loose to team RWBY In the first place? They had years of experience and they where training even when beacon was lost
plot
It should be _because_ the Ace Ops trained RWBY that the Ace Ops should be very familiar with RWBY's tactics.
The only reason that makes sense to me is that they were going easy on them
@@steeredshark5542 the two women on the team specifically talked about not holding back during the fight, but then Hare used the excuse we were holding back later. :|
@@konstellashon1364 I am even more confused now
I think another way to look at this than the Ace Ops are underrated is that the Ace Ops are actual characters that grow as time goes on, while team RWBY went into stasis as characters somewhere between Volume 5 and 6 at best and haven't grown since then at all (or have actively regressed as characters at worst). Team RWBY has informed flaws, but those are never used properly to flesh them out. The Ace Ops however feel like real people that work together even if they're not friends at first.
I can’t wait for whatever thoughts you have for Volume 8 as a whole.
My main problem with the Ace Ops was that I just straight up didn't care. They get such little screen time or interaction with each other that I wasn't even slightly invested in their arc (apart from Marrow, who was at least likable). We can sure infer some things about why they acted the way they did, but I would prefer that it actually got shown. I don't even know if Harriet ever talked to Clover in V7.
@EruptionFang One idea that I wanted to make a video about, that would be kinda pointless because I have like 11 subscribers and 0 videos, is the dynamic of Ruby and Yang in volume 1-3, vs their dynamic in volumes 5-8 (since they didn't really interact much or at all in V4)
If you watch the volumes Monty directed, and to a lesser extent volume 3, Yang and Ruby feel natural. Like in one of your videos you mentioned how they should bust each other's balls and come across like they've known each other forever. I think in volume 1-2 they succeed tremendously at this, but scenes like this almost never happen in Volumes 5, 6, 7, and 8.
I think the main problem with the core RWBY team is that Yang and Ruby didn't get much in the way of back ground prep time/story. Weiss and Blake got a lot, but Blake wrapped hers up with a bow by herself with some help from Yang at the end with Adam. But Yang herself really has no story, and her biggest moment of weakness and flaw in the show, was done by a character who is now dead.
For that reason, Weiss remains the only interesting member of RWBY because she's the only one who still has an ongoing arc, and the only one who can continue to grow.
IMO the Ace Ops are the 2nd best characters in the Atlas arc (Behind Season 7 Ironwood)
Ace ops losing to team RWBY was like Optimus losing to Bumblebee, Goku to Gohan, Batman to Nightwing or Superman to Superboy (Connor). Like, yeah, their "sidekicks" have potential and experiencie but come on....Best hunters my a**.
Didnt Tim Drake took down Batman
@@itsjustvin7630 In a fair fight? Tim? I doubt it. Nightwing and Cassandra Cain (Batgirl II/Black Bat/Orphan) are the only ones in the Batfamily who can beat him in a fair fight.
Honestly, Harriet reminds me of Locus from RvB. Though, I feel like if they try to make Harriet "Switch Sides" [-Emerald] then they would just remove all of her interesting traits. Like what they did with Whitley.
I feel like the writers' wanted to focus on the Ace Ops, just as much as the whole main cast. However, because of time, it doesn't work out well. Personally, I wish they did 30-45 minute episodes rather than 17-22 minutes. Those extra minutes can give a more in-depth look of the whole story. It makes me want to create my own version of the series like I did with RvB. I found the storyline to be lacking, so I made a storyline that satisfied my want for more content. Quite sad that it's not canon xD.
But, I feel like RT is doing too much of everything. They need to take a break from some content in order to make current content better. RvB (again, I know this is RWBY) had a team from Death Battle directing it. It's moments like this that I feel like they need to set out and find a solid team to work on RWBY. One where the writers understand the dynamic of every character and even puts into action the lessons they learned (and not kill off characters they don't like). That would revive the show.
Take a break from some content? Look at how much they did drop to focus on RWBY and RvB. Camp camp, I’m pretty sure about camp camp. Gen Lock, Nomad of Nowhere, RWBY chibi, and I don’t know what else. But all things that did have pretty good potential
Nice to see some one do good by the ace ops
Same
B-But...you're not supposed to like anyone but team RWBY! They're always right, and everyone else needs to be put in their place!
I can't stop thinking about Cinderace when looking at Harriet.
I was thinking more that chocolate bunny one
Ace ops Pokémon gym leaders when??
@@slimetank394 gym leader Harriet wishes to battle!
@@triggerfairy4070 lopunny right?
Vine is my favorite character in this show without a doubt while I've given up on this series I actually really liked his character and how they can't ruin him like they did Iron wood because he's dead so best character for me
I’m glad someone actually pointed out ruby chucking Harriet I remember the first I sore that I was like bruh not cool and didn’t even like Harriet that much
They were underrated because they didn't have plot power on their side. We were supposed to believe that THESE were the best Atlas has to offer? And these veteran huntsmen got folded by a bunch of first-years?
I think the reasoning behind them losing to team RWBY was their lack of teamwork. I don’t mean that “they weren’t friends so they couldn’t have won” that’s stupid, what I mean is their fighting wasn’t in sync. If you look back at the fight, the ace ops were actively arguing against each other and not really working together. They were acting on their own emotions and that was their downfall. So overall, the ace ops could absolutely mop the floor with team RWBY, they just needed to start acting like a unit and stay on the same page.
@@enderbrawler6576 even not fighting as a team isn't an excuse in this one. None of them were actively interfering or messing with each other in their individual fights, so this wasn't a 4v4 so much as it was 4 1v1s. In which case the Aces should STILL have won. They're more experienced, and they're skilled enough to be called Atlas' best. They absolutely should be able to hold their own in a 1v1 or even a 2v1 against a bunch of first year kids.
The power scaling in this show is just bullshit. We see veterans like Tyrian decimate 4 kids on his own, but the best Huntsmen in Atlas can't even handle 1, let alone 2 of them? Mercury beat down Cocoa and Yatsuhashi, both of which are a year older and yet he made them look like nothing at all. Granted yes: he has been trained since birth; but he still showed no signs of wearing out between them. I would think that the Ace Ops should at least be at that level of skill, since they are fully qualified graduated Huntsmen who each EARNED their place in the Aces.
@@Evilman_520 Yeah you’re right about the power scaling, it’s pretty inconsistent and is whatever the plot needs it to be. And you’re right about the ace ops loss not being right, if they did win it probably could’ve led to an arc for team RWBY to grow as a team. It probably might have been a better idea to make the ace ops third or fourth year students of Atlas instead of being full on huntsman, that way their loss can be slightly excused while keeping that upperclassman relationship they have with the main cast.
Although I might have some doubt about the part with Emerald and Mercury. While they are a year younger than team CVFY you have to remember the circumstances behind the fight. The entire tournament was rigged from the start, the matchups and the terrain were in their favor while team CVFY were clueless. Emerald and Mercury knew who they were fighting and were fully prepared on how to beat them, it also didn’t help CVFY that they fought head on while Emerald and Mercury fought with sneak attacks and trickery. If the circumstances were different, it probably wouldn’t have been so one sided. It was less about who was more powerful and more about who had the strategic advantage.
@@enderbrawler6576 Neo got punched by Oscar despite being dodge master. Cinder almost killed by Jaune in volume 5.
@@kingraplhmativo5178 Yeah, like I said before, the power scaling is pretty inconsistent and mostly does what the plot wants it to.
Hmph. That seems to be a funny thing RWBY manages to do. Manage to pull off a lot of brilliance with something they seemingly give little focus or screentime to. Now, I certainly do wish that Vine got to stick around longer.
Fully agree
wouldnt it have been interesting if winter remained loyal to ironwood and died fighting side by side with him?
It would've been glorious.
Nah because that would force Weiss into grieving about her sister and we can't have the main cast develop and grow obviously.
I've never watched a single episode of RWBY in my life but these breakdown videos are really fun and interesting to listen too. Your commentary is great.
I've said this before, but I really do appreciate these deep dives into characters rather than just watching someone react and bitch about everything. I feel like I appreciate the ace ops more now thanks to this. Well done
just watched your review of the finale and got really excited over your announcement of this video :D
Thank you for articulating how i felt bout the asops i was never able to put it as well as you did in debates with my friends. ima show em.
I hated how Vine died in Arrow Ragman used his rags to absorb a nuke and lost his powers as a result so I thought vine would just cover the bomb and jump off the ship as there was a other ship to land on but nope.
Ragman got his powers back in the last season.
@@virgilbarrios3174 I just saw that today lol I haven't watched Arrow in years so I'm quite a bit behind.
Vine wouldn’t have been able to hold it from the outside.
The shockwave of the explosion has to find a way out. The funnel he’d create by extending his arms would be a one way trip direct back to him. He would’ve died either way unfortunately
Thanks for the good content EF, Have a good Easter!
Is too bad that the Ace-oops got nerf to have team Rwby win can't wait for more higher level huntsmans get their butt whoop by bunch of kid's because all they need to do is disagree with them , and team Rwby will power up their mary sues plot armor , to teach them a lesson but not the other way around ,
am pretty sure any show I watch the main characters has a hard time beating their mentors , because the mentors got more expeice frighting to teach the students
Naruto
Fairy tail
DB and DBZ
Avatar TLA
MHA
Bleach
Inuyasha
And demon Slayer
It sucks that the best characters in rwby are everyone but rwby
Well Weiss is still pretty great but otherwise I agree
Weiss is still likable but yeah lol
Well, yeah, because if you're a good character, you die.
Weiss schnee sipping tea at home all while the atlas soldiers are fighting and dying at the wall in order to protect atlas
@Games Eh, the writing is wonky in V7 and 8 in general, so I won't let that affect my opinion of Weiss. At some point I might just decide I don't care about those volumes and never rewatch them.
20:25
**-Cries in Adam-**
When we were first introduced to the Ace Ops, I loved them, I found them to be awesome and was happy to see more actual Huntsmen and then was proceeded to be disappointed at the end of volume 7 and the start of 8 but I did like them at the end of 8, where you showed, Harriet and Vine got some development. Oddly enough they are my favourites of the Ace Ops.
Well at least three of the Aces opts are still around maybe we'll get some more character development and history in the next volume
Alternate title: Team RWBY has too much plot armor
Painfully accurate
@@Ramsey276one honestly, the Ace Ops should have curbstomped RWBY, since power scaling, flawed as it is, nevertheless shows Clover as equal to Qrow in skill, and assuming that we give the benefit of the doubt that his teammates are less skilled, they'd be around Winter level, which again makes no sense as to how they lost, other than the idiot ball was being tossed around more than death flags in Volumes 3, 5, and 6.
@@scarletshadow4548 fully agree
@@scarletshadow4548 Facts right there. Thats how some people felt about the adam vs yang & blake fight. Yang only trained against her dad with fists, while Blake never really trained at all. During vol 6 they only fought grimm. So the power scaling would have had Adam at the top with blake & yang below him yet blake & yang won even though they wernt really fighting him at the same time much, it was more taking turns.
Plot armor in what sense. Cause they definitely dont win every fight. They SHOULD have lost to Ace Ops but if they HAD to win....shit they shouldve all looked exhausted, battered, bruised and barely standing. Id say they have plot armor in the sense where they appear to be always right and the people opposing are somehow in the wrong.
You, Fang, give too much care for a group that both the community AND the creators didn’t care at all for.
The fact that writers and the show imply that even though the ace ops are on a team, but aren't friends as bad thing. It childish. Like in life sometimes you'll work very well with people who aren't your friends.
I felt more emotion watching this video than I’ve felt for team RWBY since Volume 3’s ending.
Well let's see in volume 3's ending yang lost an arm weiss was forced to go back home blake felt like an outcast and left to go back home and ruby set off with jaune nora and ren so yeah I know how you feel
*Each member also has a parallel to someone in Salem’s faction in my opinion (Minus Clover).*
*Harriet - Tyrian (Most loyal to their leader).*
*Vine - Watts (Most level headed).*
*Elm - Hazel (Biggest and most intimidating).*
*Marrow - Emerald (Most likely to defect to the good guys).*
The more I watch these videos the more I see the diamonds in the rough that could've made the show more than what it is. Showing characters that have flaws that force them to rethink and grow is what a long series should focus on. But for team RWBY that's not the case. The heroes are meant to be perfect while others are just in the background and are then demonized if they stand up to the main characters. I would've loved to have seen the story behind how the Acs Ops were formed and how they interacted with each other when they weren't on duty.
She got the most screen time because she was the cutest admit :P
I actually agree with everything you said about the Ace Operatives, it was perfectly well reasoned and you clearly put a lot of time and effort into this video and analysis.
Watching this video makes me feel like following the Ace-Ops would make for a more unique and genuinely better story. I mean it would be shorter and they would have to drop the whitefang stuff, which might bring some much needed focus as I always felt as if it was a different story entirely as it never impacts the world that much and only 50% of the main characters. So maybe that would be better handled as. A spin-off so that it could be handled with more depth and focus. Heck maybe you could still include it in the Ace-Ops show but make it another plotpoint that develops them or something. I feel like I just want some active and really dynamic characters that are consistent in their characterization. Because going of the principle that your main characters should be the most interesting ones when all the good ones, so the interesting ones, so basically Iron wood the ace-ops and winter, are located in Atlas maybe make the show about atlas.
Harriet is kinda like Locust, being (or in Locust's case wanting to be) the best warrior by following orders but it also ultimately being their biggest faults
Now that's a video I can get behind
Edit: I didn't know how much I needed this until now, thanks again for the video
I did believe harriet was the best ace op because she has development and had flaws. I kinda hate how I didn't notice how nice harriet design was until the last episode of volume 8 like what where was she the last two volumes. I am glad this video shed light on the hidden story of the Ace ops and their dynamic, etc. Great video man 💕💕❤️
I'm gonna be honest, I really loved the AceOps, specifically Clover, and especially Harriet. You make so many good points about both of them, and I really wish we saw more of their characters and that their relationship was better shown. Its absolutely my personal headcanon that Harriet was crushing on Clover, but never wanted to admit it.
It’s very funny how people dislike Harriet so much even though she is one of the most well written characters in the show. Meanwhile they like ruby because they have to like ruby cause the show is called rwby
Them being defeated by RWBY without a single scratch was so aggravating to watch that I wish a new, more competent writer that doesn't have an easily bruised ego was hired to introduce a new villain that utterly curb-stomps RWBY and friends just to teach them some much needed humility
It’s not like rwby haven’t had their fair share of losses. Plus Harriet was owning Ruby in their fight
@@NoirN3rd RWBY has been unbeatable ever since Vol 4
@@carbodude5414 I mean they wouldve died in Volume 5 if Cinder didnt decide to get the relic mid fight for no good reason.
@@bjoernsenp.5664 See, that's the thing. Villains suddenly become significantly more stupid whenever RWBY is around
Vine is the MVP of The Ace OPs. He sacrificed himself for his friends. That is touching.
Came for the reviews stayed for the analysis. Great work as always dood!!
Thank you for putting into words why Harriet is great
The reason Vine had to sacrifice himself was the one, easily missed line of "We'll never make it out of the blast zone in time!" which, if the bomb had that big of a blast radius....HOW FUCKING STRONG WAS VINE TO BE ABLE TO REDUCE IT THAT MUCH???? No fuckin wonder they had to kill him off, he would have taken Salem down by his own damn self if given the chance.
For me personally, my favorite of the Ace Ops is Elm Ederne, for her physique and her personality.
Can't really go wrong with a good ol' boisterous bruiser amazonian beauty.
@@chukyuniqul Or, simply put,
"Muscle Mommy"
Loved this video, super interesting. When you were talking about Winter's defection feeling un-impactful for the group, it made me think about how interesting it would have been if Clover had survived v7 and gone through Winter's exact arc (minus maiden stuff) from v8. So, what if in v7, Qrow developed a relationship with Winter and became friends with her instead of Clover, and she died? Giving both Qrow and Weiss strong motivators going into v8, and then Clover could begin to question Ironwood during Salem's invasion, making his eventual defection really impactful on his team.
Anyway loved the video, great stuff as usual!
Very well said. Personally I love the Ace Ops, super underrated and I hope they stick around. Particularly Harriet is really unfairly hated. Something so frustrating about the RWBY fandom is that they're unique in disliking characters for having flaws, moral complexity or just aren't nice. I've never seen such drastic emotions in any other fandom.
Anyway I love the Ace Ops and hope they stick around for a bit.
Good video, watched the whole thing and there were some points that I genuinely considered.
I love how Vine was literally explored next to none and his death left me feeling more hollow and somber than Penny’s.
He was seriously emotionless and as stuck up as Harriet. At least even Elm had some sort of doubt from her expressions and body language, but he just went “friend.” Out of nowhere.
@@MizuramenNoodles I don’t think he was stuck up, he was just more logical than he was emotional.
Man went out like a Champ. He was a real one.
This video is a PERFECT example of why the Ace-Ops would be WAY better main characters then Team RWBY.
Exactly what I was thinking!
I wish they could make a book prequel of just the ace ops (kinda like what they did with team cfvy) they are so interesting and gosh you just put into words the reason why I couldn't hate Harriet like other people did
All this man speaks is facts.
I see how people don{t enjoy the ASOPS because they're taking up screentime from the main cast. But it is funny how the writers developed those characters much better in 1-2 volumes than the main characters for 8 volumes.
Team RWBY are a quartet of Mary Sues. They are without flaw AND fault, which makes it even harder to root for them when the antagonistic characters like the Ace Ops have a personality
Nice Analysis.
I'll be honest, I want this series to have true Bad Ending. They constantly reinforce this theme that their isn't fairy tale ending and strength will never lead to victory. Yet RWBY group constantly tries to strength through anyway, there actively against theme of story on every account and there actions always lead to diaster, even good ones. It sort always been sort hope that it case where at end they fail, there decisions were shortsided and most die aside from those four. Repeat of the same fate that Team STRQ had. Since Ozpin has always been protagonist of deciet and Salem an antagonist of truth. Ruby to have actual mental breakdown and actually break to prove that all she even did is shove her emotions down and wear mask of happiness.
I feel Rwby is telling its story to quickly. Monty said that the ending of season 2 now is the ending of season 3. I feel like rwby should do this more. I don't mind having a few filler episodes if we have less rushed story.
Do you think the ending of season 3 would have been quite that dark thematically if Monty hadn't died? I feel like the ending of season 3 was the butterfly's wings that ruined later seasons with a hurricane.
I half expected you to say after your opening statement on waisted potential for characters...
"But enough about Team RWBY, let's talk about the Ace Ops."
And now that they're stuck with Qrow and *grins* Robyn maybe their characters can be further developed, y'know now that they're apart of the "good guys" Hopefully some lingering resentment towards Marrow, from either Harriet or Elm (maybe both)
To me the Ace Ops really helped bring me back into RWBY. To me they carried the spirit of original couple of volumes. Of them I think elm is the weakest as her semblance just seems to be a weaker version of vines and her weapon seems to similar to Noras.
I feel like you missed talking about Harriet's attachment to Clover, which honestly felt more like the big dilemma for her character, with her following Ironwood's orders being the channel/vector for a lot of the pent up sadness and straight up anger she felt at Qrow and the others for what she thought was Qrow having killed Clover. She of all the characters was the most emotional and straight up angry about following these orders to the letter and refusing to see reason, with only her getting another friend killed by her sheer stubbornness breaking this. Winter's dilemma felt a lot different in that regard, as she clearly was having a moral dilemma with Ironwood for awhile, while Harriet only really broke when her teammates/friends were involved.
The real problem with the ace-ops, the reason nobody likes them, is their horrible “first impression”. I’m talking about the first real fight we saw them in, the one with team rwby. They were wi-Ed out CLEANLY by a group of kids because.... friendship? If at least Harriet or marrow had won their fights and we got a round 2 that was another 2v2 that might’ve softened the blow but as it stands, the best of the best lost to the worst of the worst
My prefered scenarios wouldve been:
- Marrow leaves with the exhausted injured Ironwood, because they know Cinder is there and theorize Hazel is there to, so RWBY gets a 4v3 which is a bit more believeable
-Marrow just uses his semblance on his own team and lets RWBY go for reasons I guess
I am going to stop watching RWBY and just watch your videos on them. When you cover RWBY I am filled with hope, intrigue and excitement. When I watch the actual show, I am usually saddened and disappointed.
It's fucking criminal how they treated ace ops, the disrespect.
This shows main weakness at the moment are the main characers, which means that the show is best when focusing on others(like JNR, Oscar, Ozpin, the Ace Ops etc).
Seriously. Why was it only these five (plus Winter)? Atlas, out of all the Kingdoms, are the ones who have most integrated their Huntsmen into an actual organised force. Why the hell aren't there entire platoons' worth of these teams working in conjunction with Atlas' other soldiers to do their jobs and actually help out during the evacuation? Why did Ruby's group have to pick up the slack? Where is the actual chain of command, other than just Ironwood being on top?
Personaly, I would have just love that the Ace Ops weren't completely new characters.
Instead of introducing and killing an entire new team in two volumes, I would have maybe preferred the Ace Ops to be Penny teammates.
I would have kept Clover, Harriet and Marrow, remove Elm and Given Vine role to Ciel instead.
Doing so would have boosted their signification, even more from Penny perspective.
They were like the DINOBOTS of transformers, powerful and potentially interesting.
But in the hands of 2 writers with the obsession of bad representations
Wow, if i didnt know better, you either are an avid reader, a lit major or a film major. . . . or none of these but possessing such keen understanding of narratives. succinctly put, ideas i tried to write but couldnt find the major threads to do so. XD
I liked the Ace Ops especially Marrow,Clover and Vine which both of them Died which is very sad.
But at least Vine went out in a Blaze of Glory.
I definitely think the Atlas arc should've been longer. 2 Volumes doesn't equal the same story progression. Especially if one volume only lasts for like 2 in-series days.
We barely got around to see what Atlas "the greatest kingdom" looks like. Only Mantle and part of the academy. We know that the Atlas people up there barely seen Grimm but it doesn't get addressed.
With making an extra arc between V7 and V8, they could've expanded on their world building, flesh out their characters like Ace Ops and Happy Huntresses.
Also it could've worked better with Ironwoods trust issues and paranoia. Salems plan was always to make him paranoid and the theme "trust love" from team rwby was supposed to work against that. They managed to calm IW down in the Schnee Manor and then everyone worked together for Mantle. But then IW got paranoid again. Tbh if I didn't watch IW compilations, I wouldn't have noticed most of what his character arc was about and how close he was to actually overcome his paranoia. My suggestion would've been to put the Jacques election part in a 7.5 volume ( so like between V7 and V8) . This would've given us more time on the Happy Huntresses Mantle and Ace Ops Atlas parallel, make an actual good Schnee arc, make the villains appear more threatening. You know? End the V7 with the scene of Watts entering Jacques office after we had V7 focused on Mantle, Happy Huntresses, Atlas, Ace Ops, IW and Schneeblings. And then do the whole election thing with Penny being framed in V7.5 and then do the actual tragedy like it happened in v8
The ending is the best part of the video
The problem with Ace OPS is that they had great potential to develop the story and let team RWBY develop positively, but they were essentially only used to show how wrong Atlas (or rather, Ironwood) were wrong and to show that friendship trumps logic and sometimes having to make difficult decisions. They were essentially just a foil to make team RWBY look good.
We should've gotten 5 to 7 episodes for the Ace Ops.
My opinions on each of the Ace-Ops. (Excluding Winter)
Clover - I like him, though a bit overrated but I did cry when he died.
Harriet - She didn't learn until the final episode of Volume 8 and she was just "following orders" instead of thinking for herself. And I hate her personality too. Yes, it's a good flaw that should be needed but I hate it.
Elm - She may have a bit of a temper tantrum like Yang but I founded her hilarious. Though her Semblance sucked though.
Vine - He's the most calmest and tries to resolve things peacefully first. I love his design and personality and I actually cried when he sacrificed himself to save his friends and Qrow.
Marrow - My favourite member because he may be hilarious, but he goes through a character progression in Volume 8 thinking what he was doing is "really" the right thing to do and his defection makes the most sense. I love him so much.
I think the main problem is that because the main characters are underutilized and because of this people like you are more invested in the side characters. When we think about it it seems like it's a bit unfamiliar to the show to do this but :
- Ren and Nora are one of the most developed characters
- Qrow were conflicted during the last volume but I think pushing him aside is a bit disappointing
- So many side characters and side stories are there and team Rwby aren't interesting enough so you get invested in the side characters and it's a vicious circle
- I would be invested if one of those girls would become a maiden for... Well... Have a purpose in the plot because it's a bit sad to se unexploited materials
Imagine having 2 Volumes in Atlas and not giving Weiss and Winter a lot of screentime/actual character moments/devolpment
@@bjoernsenp.5664 It's think it's a bad i- Oh wait they already did that
I knew from their design alone that they werent going to be anything worth while. They didnt wow me with their introduction, It was just a matter of time before they died in my eyes.