Games Workshop SUE Fan, Now the Fan SPEAKS OUT! Set's the Record STRIAGHT. A 40K Rant.
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North, you again put me in the uncomfortable position of having to defend GW on this one. I really hate to do it.
Do some research on this case...and don't just take one party's word for it. I hope the settlement happens and it is in neighborhood of what eman g has proposed, but I don't have a lot sympathy for him. Some facts:
1) eman g extracted the designs from the game, uploaded them for free at cults3d, but at some point started making money selling supported versions.
2) I don't see a chart for 2022, but it appears his patreon has collected over $60,000 selling access to these supported versions.
3) GW sent him cease and desist notices. He ignored them.
4) GW then tried issuing a copyright takedown notice to patreon. Normally this should have put a stop to it, but eman g took the extra time and effort to file a counterclaim basically saying he DOES have the right to the designs and GW's claim is bogus. At this point he steps from just passively ignoring GW's ownership of the IP to actively challenging it. You said it yourself--GW must defend, so what do they do?
5) GW files the lawsuit in August 2023. Given the large number of infringing designs, eman g is LUCKY they only filed claims for 14 of them.
6) eman g states that at this point he tried negotiating with GW. I believe him, but given the above and what's yet to come, please forgive me for wondering if he was negotiating in good faith.
7) eman g did not respond to the filing until the very end of May 2024! (It took nearly 10 months for him to respond to the claim). READ THIS FILING. In his summary of the defense of the filing it says a) "The portions of the work [he] used are not protected by copyright" and b) "[His] use of the work alleged to be infringed was a fair use" and c) "The claimant does not own the material [he] used or the copyright in the work at issue". Again, this is almost June and he's still denying reality. The filing itself tries to use legalese in a gross way to weasel out of the charges. It is a NOT a good faith defense being presented. It is 16 pages and represents a significant investment in time trying to justify his actions.
8) Shortly after that both parties indicate they have a settlement in principle but needed 2 weeks to hammer out the details. The copyright claims board paused proceedings for this to happen. After those two weeks passed, no settlement was filed so the CCB again paused proceedings (it's actually the 4th pause due to some earlier, longer ones for earlier negotiations).
9) That last pause I mentioned was for 2 weeks and started on June 14. Presumably the parties were very close to settling and fully expected to wrap it up by the end of the month, but they didn't.
10) On June 21, emang launched his gofundme in the middle of this final 2-week negotiation period.
11) The two weeks have elapsed and have not settled yet.
The above numbered items are mostly just factual things (yes, with some personal assessments included), but this part is all personal interpretation and speculation. If you read the gofundme, you'll see that the text presents emang as though he was doing his work for the community for free and some big company came along and sued him. Again he made money from this--I'm guessing about $60,000 in patreon revenue was collected! If I were GW this would tick me off again. Remeber that at this point emang has taken their work, made tons of money off of it, ignored requests to stop, filed counterclaims to attempt to allow himself to continue collecting money from it, [perhaps] negotiated in bad faith, then filed a bad faith response to the legitimate claims of GW, and YET GW was still ready to settle with him on terms that they both seemed OK with. It seems like GW was being fair. But then, on the brink of settling, the dude has the audacity to start a gofundme which (while never mentioning GW) paints them as the bad guy attacking him (a guy who only does what he does for free and for the benefit of the community...). And the gofundme wants to raise ANOTHER $45,000 with that disingenuous appeal text. This guy is shameless. I have my suspicions why that nearly-done settlement hasn't happened yet.
Again, I believe GW should settle and the amount should be in the tens of thousands of dollars but this guy keeps poking the bear over and over again. North, don't tell me if you got poked you wouldn't jab back at least a bit. As best I can tell from publicly available information GW has shown incredible restraint here and are not trying to make an example of him. Emang made mistakes, but when confronted with them doubled-down at multiple points in time. At some point we need to hold people accountable. I don't want the guy bankrupted, but I don't want to reward his bad behavior either.
Excellent synopsis. Fully agree.
Im afraid you may be correct Vargaken. I feel for the lad. What a silly thing to do😢
Good one mate! Sad most people will not read your comment because it’s the truth…
@@ParaFoxxen anyone who says tldr, are missing out
This needs to be pinned @northernexile. Beautiful synopsis of what is going on.
In the United States, an out of court settlement is not a final judgment by the court. It will not set legal precedent.
It dose not set legal presidents but that’s already mean set by past cases, but it dose show that they are defending there IP
They’re going to make an example of him unfortunately. It was very stupid of him to ignore the cease and desists. Has he addressed the claims that the files were ripped straight from the Total War Games?
Yes he has. They are direct rips of assets but as he had to do extensive work to make them printable he figured it would be protected under "fair use" and "fan art". Current claim is the new helldiver stuff is sculpted from scratch but I don't think money will care as the sculpts are still near 1:1 of in game assets. Still I'm on the side of you knew what you are doing is wrong and kept doing int and ignoring warnings from GW. God help him if he ever decided to make assets from Nintendo properties.
@@maskedaxe Nintendo, just like GW, deserves to have ALL of their shit pirated.
@@felipearias5622 Then in your eyes - everything should be pirated.
If you ever get into a situation where you’re the maker of an IP, I bet you’ll change your mind about this🤡
In the end, you’re too young to understand about TM and copyright laws, as you put so much feelings into everything.
@@felipearias5622 dont be an idiot.
@@ParaFoxxen lmao I am currently making a videogame with a friend, and we plan to release the source code for free.
Additionally, I would LOVE if my game gets pirated, it means it's good enough for people to go through the effort of pirating it. Not everyone can afford the game, and that's ok, the people who choose to pirate it should be able to enjoy it as well.
I am old enough to understand how IP laws have a negative impact on creativity. My brother and best friend are both IP lawyers, I know how this bs system works lol. Piracy is morally correct, IP laws can get bent.
Hang on, hes selling models from other IP? Why oh why are you defending him?
This guy has willfully ignored and basically stuck up two fingers at multiple companies, has been given multiple opportunities, and still continues to think his behaviour is acceptable. Of course they are now going to go after him as hard as they possibly can. They are wanting to set a precedent that says "do not be a douche like this guy"
Sorry but he fucked around and is finding out.
Man what a hot take on this. He did not steal for necessity, he stole for monatary gain. As a big company if you sent multiple cease and desist orders throughout the years. You have every right to make sure no other person will do it again. I think you need to rethink this through again.
Lol
It's only got to this level because he ignored C&Ds, filed pretty dopey counters, negotiated in bad faith whilst still selling the infringing items.... He could have bailed at any point and not been in this state now. And he's _still_ selling infringing product. At some point, guy has to taks accountability for his own actions. He put hinself here.
As soon as Notth said that EmanG had ignored Cease and Desist orders, that was it. He moved from making "mistakes" (not sure I'd call deliberately making a profit from the the work of others a mistake) to f**king around. As we all know, after f**king around comes finding out.
I get it. GW's business practices make them hard to defend. This time, it's pretty cut and dry. This guy f**ked around, found out and is now fishing for sympathy from the community.
You wouldn’t be so stoic if it were you in EmanG’s shoes. Yes SURPRISE he’s Human (Remember the thing they taught us about those pesky Humans and not being perfect and all that? Sometimes making mistakes and dumb decisions?), made the clearly DUMB mistake of ignoring clear signs of what’s to come. Now here comes the multi-billion dollar company about to show this dumb little guy who’s the boss and destroy their lives for being such an ignorant insignificant little worm. Is that truly cool with you? Cause if it is than you’re either irrational or just straight up evil.
Have EmanG go through the legal process, scare the sh*t out of them, but in the end only simply demand an apology on record to GamesWorkshop. Now they have the win on record, made their point clear to both EmanG and us the community of what could happen if their IP is messed with, and a fellow hobbyist and loyal fan won’t be tossed to the curb without a penny to his name. Now that would be a more sensible ending to things wouldn’t it?
This is deterrence to stop anyone else wasting their time by ignoring their cease and desists and correspondence. It seems like this guy made this situation himself. If he wanted leniency he should have accepted all the previous offers.
Look man, I agree with you on the whole, especially on mental health in general, but the stance is kind of insane to me.
If you go to steal a car, and get told "Don't steal that car" a bunch of times, and continue to steal the car, you don't get to say "The punishment for grand theft auto is too stressful for me, please don't send me to jail". That's ridiculous.
Your "don't go so hard on the little guy" falls apart when you think about this for more than 30 seconds. "Going easy" was the C&D orders sent out and the claim on Patreon that he countered. Not sure if you know this, but counter-claims are actual legal notices saying (in this case) GW doesn't own the IP they are claiming. Those orders were ignored. This could have been over. All he had to do was stop breaking the law with a few clicks of his mouse. We're literally talking about a few clicks of a mouse to save him here. Lets not kid ourselves.
Ignoring multiple legal notices which tell you exactly what the next steps will be when you ignore them isn't "just Making a mistake". Once he admits ignoring those, to put it frankly, its Gloves Off, legally speaking.
Theft is Theft. My SO is an artist. If this was her work in the same situation where multiple attempts to fix the issue out of court were ignored, I'd also go for the legal maximum. Fuck thieves, and not sorry, EmanG is a thief. That doesn't change because its GW being stolen from, no matter how much you love/hate the company.
Might be a bad analogy because this is more like stealing a car worth £500 and the punishment being buying the owner a £300,000 Porsche as a replacement. Doesn't quite fit.
@@Buggritt The guy (supposedly) made 60k on Patreon, and is asking for another 45k through his gofundme. So it's more like he's stolen a car worth 105k.
The extra on top of that, is through his and the following community portrayal of GW as the bad guys, and further damage to reputation. You could argue the community response was so bad BECAUSE they have a bad rep already, but it hardly helped. I wouldn't be surprised if they did lose out on potentially more than 400k worth of business from people deciding to boycott them from the initial outlining of this story.
Don't forget that this story has been seen internationally by the community, it's not localised.
@@skrathos337 that's assuming the money directly took away from GW sales which really is hard to prove.
As for damaging reputation that's also very difficult to attribute to one Patreon directly. One recent event involving Custodes alone could be considered more damaging to GW reputation than anything this guy has done.
Which is why I said it may be a bad example to use a car theft. It's very clear cut with a car, much less so with IPs and ephemeral things like lost sales and reputation.
So Eman has had gotten several chances to step down and just leave it be and keep the profit he has made. Yet he first ignored, then contested GW, claiming he was not profiting, wich he was via Patreon. He then doesnt react for a long time again.
He then opens a gofundme, painting a picture of beeing a robin hood figure under attack from the big bad sherrif of nottingham and that all he does is giving to the community. Wich he doesnt. *He profits from it via patreon.*
So he is beeing dismissive and rude towards GW and lies about the situation, while simultaenously still profiting from the items the case is about AND trying to milk the moment even more with gofundme.
For GW this isnt just about using some random case as a warning message for everybody. Eman was actively stealing a creative IP (Imagine he had done that to a smaller artist) and has had several moments to step away and get out free, yet he chose to stay and poke the dragon further. He claims psychological strain, while all he had to do was let go and settle with them. Even after the Cease & Desist Orders they were open to negotiation.
Eman has made this personal and this is a classical "Fuck around and find out." Situation.
Perfectly put. The guy tried to make an easy profit from other people's hard work and intellectual property, and found out the hard way, mainly thanks to his own greed and stupidity, that there are consequences. No amount of anti-GW bias changes the facts.
@@Captain_Kremmen Exactly. and now he is going crying to benevolent Papa Northern Exile so he can reap some patpats and sympathy points from the community.
@@Philtopynorth is such a clown for assuming this guys innocence when he seems to have done everything to make himself looks bad. Has he done this to a smaller company that people don't have a hate boner for people would be trashing him.
At first I had very little sympathy for the guy, but then you revealed GW wants to crush him with $250,000-$500,000 in penalties. I thought "god damn, thats way overboard". But then you mentioned that this dude is selling Helldivers minis and I'm right back to not giving a shit what happens to him. He knows exactly what he's doing and has for a long time. Now he wants to cry victim? Please. Its certainly not nice that he faces bankruptcy, but he has no one to blame but himself. F*ck with the bull, you get the horns.
What is your evidence that I’m selling models from Helldivers 2, or that I “ripped” them? I’ve done neither.
@@EmanGameplay you've got support out here. Whatever we have to do these the corporations need to understand whom they work for ... and that's we the people.
@@jc7997aj corporations don't, and have no obligation to, work for "we the people". That's politicians (allegedly). Corporations work for their shareholders. Protecting against IP infringement is part of that, because if they don't, they lose control of their product and the shareholders don't make as much money.
Argue the morality of capitalism all you like, but that's the reality of the situation.
@@Daemonik "we the people" pay them. They don't exist without us. So yes these corporations need to remember who they work for. Same with entertainers they owe us everything, because without our patronage they are nothing. We have to stop putting these types on a pedestal.
@@jc7997aj No no, we the people purchase their goods. They don't work for us. They provide a service, we choose to use that service, we pay. We choose not too, we don't pay.
Games Workshop is not a vitalally needed service, they don't provide a life need such as food or utilities. So make no mistake, they do NOT work for us.
Enough people will still play that they can soldier on. They have been screwing over fans since 2nd edition.
I have no respect for EmanG. If you're going to behave like this at least move to Costa Rica, adopt an alias and run your finances in Bitcoin like a true pirate. Don't stand by your 3d printer ignoring cease and desist letters until they knock on your door.
Meanwhile people are non-stop cranking out 'Pretty much [insert thing from warhammer] but are smart enough to alter it enough that GW would have to have a copyright on 'Skeletons' and 'Armored guys in horned helmets' to have a case against them.
I don't see GW as a 'victim' and sympathize, I just don't think EmanG was very bright.
I don't agree with how aggressive GW is responding to this, but emang is 100% in the wrong.
🩸🪨Cruel & Unusual Punishment: "An Arm for a *_Fingernail."_* 🩸🪨
( The Process alone has beggared EmannG: the process is *_Punishment_*_ enough_ )
It would seem they tried being nice but he ignored them.
Sorry, North. I completely disagree with your stance here. GW WERE lenient; they sent him more than one C&D. The first one should've put a stop to it. He ignored it and the others that came after. GW behaved like a parent telling a child (several times) that the hob is hot, and then the child proceeds to touch it and cries victim. EManG had plenty of warning from them. He obviously has the skills to create models but chose to be lazy in developing his own design ranges (just look at Station Forge, among others - you can exist within the GW ecosystem with your own designs it just takes a lot of effort). North, how has he learnt if he is carrying on with Helldivers 2 stuff... Filing Bankruptcy will not throw him to the streets. EManG is not the victim you paint him out to be, North. This is the real world, with real consequences. It's turning out to be a very painful lesson, but one he should've listened from the first letter. And we might see him back in court if the Developers of Helldivers 2 gets wind of what he's doing.
Additionally, have you spoke with GW to ask for comments regarding what EManG has stated?
I agree with you, and gw is in the roght they gave him warnings, but i can't think by feling bad. But if they back of now i would think thats almost a ok so it isent that important.
I usually like and agree with your content. But you're ABSOLUTELY wrong. This is an asshole who had many warnings and he's continuing to try and leech and work in bad faith. He kept ignoring and pretending like he could get away with doing wrong and he got slapped like he needed to be. Period. He clearly hasn't changed his opinion and continues to do the same to sony.
It's making an example because this is the first well known case of someone selling literally gw models he has printed himself.
This isn't a case of creating space elves to be sold as their own IP that just happens to be close and could be used as eldar on the table.
He knew exactly what he was doing and they want to let it be known it will be something they come down hard on, not just taking away any possible profits which makes it basically just a gamble on if you are caught.
He didn't even create the models, he ripped the assets out of a video game and made them manifold. They're not even particularly printable.
You got fan boys here they will protect GW no matter what
I don’t have a ton of sympathy either way here.
If you f*** around, you find out.
What the dude did was stealing.
You don’t end up on the street in this country.
You’ll lose your assets.
You’ll lose your house (if you’re lucky enough to own one).
But if you’re renting like all the normal schmucks, basically you’re money game is reset and you start again.
Even if you lose your job, there benefits.
The worse that might happen is you have to work you way back up to normality.
However, dude sounds like he has the skills to make some honest money on the side, if he learns his lesson.
One thing of note about 3d printer files, and supports. All the slicer programs that I'm aware of will add supports if none are there... they may not be the most optimized, but can be generated. So paying for a file with supports saves a bit of fiddling on the person printing but not a ton.. it's a convenience thing at that point.
This. However, most people just buy a printer and dont do research.
He ignored multiple cease and desist. 🤷♂️
Nintendo did the same thing to a kid in Africa
There's no grey area here. He tried to steal GW's intellectual property, and when they defended it, he doubled down, ignored the Cease and Desists, and acted like a greedy idiot. GW are vigorous in defence of their IP, as they have to be, but they follow the rule of law. There's no malice involved. The situation Eman finds himself in is entirely of his own making, and dressing his actions up as simple 'mistakes' is very disingenuous.
So as someone that has gone bankrupts it's not as bad as people think, it's got a massive stigma, see it as a way to fix your problems.
GW are looking like they are trying to make a show of you but that's mostly due to him ignoring them, I don't think they would have been so harsh if he'd have stopped when asked, i'd like to know the date of the first time he was asked to stop.
Yeah this is a shit place to find yourself as someone that has been in debt beyond my means.
The Defendant took digital assets from a game,tweaked them and put them up for free but if you wanted them to work you had to pay for a sub. So took IP, sold it and wonders why GW are hitting him hard, if he did it then GW are trying to stop others from doing the same. It sucks for him but GW are in a bad place if they let this go
For all of you saying “nah I hate to agree with gw but he should’ve bent the knee”, did any of you actually hear what’s happening? Their actually trying to completely ruin a man’s life
He ignored multiple cease and desist notices and tried to appeal a copyright strike takedown notice and when GW started legal proceedings, he ignored the suit for months.
GW didn't just throw him an olive branch they threw him the whole tree and he pissed all over it and laughed in their face.
They could have done a Nintendo and gone straight for a lawsuit but they gave him multiple chances to stop.
He used their work. He didn't do his own versions of things, he stole their files. They warned him repeatedly and he ignored them. If they didn't take action, they'd be saying to everyone else "carry on! We'll threaten, but we won't actually do anything!"
Everyone saying "typical big company!" has forgotten or doesn't know that GW very VERY nearly went bust not that long ago.
when was that pray tell? sources and statistics, if you please...
@@Huter2142 Which bit?
Don't steal and this won't happen. EmanG stole assets, ignored the cease and desist notices, and is now facing the music.
It's not about money... its about sending a message. - The Joker in the Dark Knight
"Alright he made some mistakes, fair enough fair enough"
Mate: he made mistake after mistake after mistake and now he is asking the community for outrage and help.
He didn't "create" anything. He ripped files from a video game and sold them via Patreon and Cults3d.
Yeah sure, later on he added supports. Bad ones, made with lychees "magic support button".
He ignored multiple cease and desist.
I mean I'm sorry but... If GW doesn't pursue high amounts they can close down a 400million business with thousands of employees.
Try that with Disney or Sony and see what happens.
I actually agree with what they are doing, they are aggressively proving a point
You say why should they do this? I'll tell you why. You answered it yourself, because they're protecting their IP!!
There's no excuse , in my view, for the actions taken by this guy. Every time you engage with some copyrighted product there are PLENTY of disclaimers telling you what you cannot do with the product (especially digital) right at the start (reverse engineering, selling or renting part of the content in the software, extrapolating witht he intent to monetize etc etc). If you ignore all of this and you go ahead you deserve to be sued. But again if it was me I'd set for how much did you get form selling models with and without support? How much can you afford to pay back overall? that's how much you are going to pay back. Because if someone can't pay, you can do anything you want, you're not going to see a penny from him, and destroying someone's life for the sake of it, it is indeed malicius, because there's no benefit from it. GW has the rights to defend themselves and their copyrighted material, but I also think they should be more human because in doing so it will bring them more revenue than putting a fan on the street (even if he did wrong with intent). If we were talking about a massive reprint operation with loads of machinery and money flowing I could understand GW pursuing him as they do. But also...he admitted he's done wrong, and he's selling Helldivers models still...at the end of the day that counts too. That's up to a judge to decide. I'd push for maximum possible just for that, because he's also not truthful.
What is your evidence that I’m selling models from Helldivers 2, or that I “ripped” them? I’ve done neither.
I'd be the first to throw shade at GW, but they've done the right thing here. Not only have they protected their own IP, they've decided to draw a line in the sand and say "here and no further". One man loses everything, and every other guy who is even *thinking* of doing it, won't. It's one *BIG* slap-down NOW, or slap-downs every few months for years to come. The guy was given the option to stop, and thought he knew better. Turns out he didn't. There's a saying, about what the prize is for stupid games, and he's won it in spades.
I remember reading GW published conversions with 3rd part model kits, like Bradley IFV's and the like.
I even remembered helping my friend convert a halftrack into a chimera
Oh my how times have changed.
Well they have sent the guy several cease & desist orders. so its not like they havent given him several chances to stop for free and keep his profits.
@@maxmay2151 I'm old enough to remember hover tanks made from deodorants.
Nowadays, players just buy a tank kit and don't know what a deodorant even is!! 😄
@@Daemonik Hahaha! your like my older brother, hes always building smoke stacks and terrain out of cereal boxes and things.
Thats what i want out of 40k... especially when nearly all the concepts in 40k are plagarised from some other Sci fi setting just like how warhammer fantasy is unmistakably tolkien inspired.
Sorry he ignored C&D warnings, and now because they are being heavy handed its GW at fault??? No sympathy for him...GW are well within their rights to be doing what they are..he had warnings and CHOSE to ignore them...🤷♂️
did he sell the files or were they offered for free? sorry late to this party. i can install any game on my pc and go in and grab the meshes aka the 3d model of the games assets and open them in 3d software. they however are not 3d print ready or friendly as they are from a videogame. as the meshes are in most cases in many files just not 1 file for one 3d model. you then have to combine all of these meshes together and you have to optimize it for 3d printing which is not easy, if he just got donations on patreon for his time as a service and didn't sell the 3d model itself then it shouldn't be illegal. it is a service he is actually providing in setting them up. this is kind of like buying a box of marines and paying someone to put them together and paint them for you. it is a service he provided it takes knowledge and skill to put these game asset meshes together and to make them 3d printable.
I think this is very deliberate action by GW to obtain a legal precedent in their favour. IMO they will not accept any settlement, no matter how good- the want judgement and a precedent. GW are terrified of 3D printing, which could be an existential risk to their business model. Add to that the judgement from over a decade ago vs Chapterhouse and you have a situation where they are seeing the writing on the wall. They were probably praying for a case like this. By having a legal precedent in their favour, they can begin to build a position where they can shut down 3D printing and maybe event overturn Chapterhouse case. For GW this is a case not against an individual, but against 3D printing as an idea. Success here means they can start to future-proof their business model. At first they will go after reproductions and Direct copies etc., but soon enough they will go after 'similar' and 'in the style of' or 'suitable for' miniatures and hits/upgrade kits makers
I have to disagree on a number of things. I don't remember you saying if he turned over his data to YOU, so if he didn't, then you do not actually know how much money he's made, thus you also are not in a position to say if GW if asking for far too much or not. Even if if the bloke doesn't have 500k sitting around ... if he did make a ton of cash and spent over 500k, then GW is owed the money earned. That's not them trying to break him and throw him on the street ... it's simply what is fair and right in almost all circumstances. Secondly, the dude f'd around and found out, was asked to stop, and he f'd around and found out AGAIN. He was literally asking them to sue him, IMHO. He got his wish. Thirdly, now you're saying he's still selling other IP models? So, no, he didn't just make a mistake and now he's learned from it. He made a mistake, ignored the stated repercussions, didn't learn, then got sued, and now he's still F'ing around and probably about to find out for a third ... fourth ... fifth time??!? C'mon, good sir ... I get maybe you don't really like GW's practices, but no matter the company, it sounds like they are quite well within reason here, and made multiple attempts to settle this easily and amicably without ANY fines, to which this guy continually refused and challenged back with his (unsubstantiated) right to keep doing it. I believe you are on the wrong side here, North.
And, honestly, I kind of find it a touch disturbing that your vid's thumbnail describes this as a "FAN" being "ATTACKED". I think more reasonable/accurate words could have been used to describe this scenario.
@@Ninjorz Agree 110% regards the video title. I was surprised to find out the video was on this subject when I started playing it, based on the title.
There is no way he made 1/2 a mill off of doing that, I do agree that a reasonable settlement would be about what he made and I hope gw dose not go much above that, would not shock me if they take this all the way if there is no legal president over 3D printing.
I do think the case for hell divers is slightly different they don’t make models so what business is it he is taking away from them, admittedly they to have a right to defend there IP and as a lay person it seams like he is braking it but a more responsible response from them would be to offer him a license for it if his work is good enough, but that is just a personal opinion as I think something like that would far from take business from hell divers I think it would actually add to the longevity of the IP, remember all the lore videos etc on GW that are on TH-cam technically brake IP but because they help keep the hobby alive and help reach new consumers for GW, GW pretend they don’t notice it and I suspect a number of GW TH-camrs have made more than this kid over the years off of GW ip
@@danielbutchers998I’ll note that the models I’ve released based on the Automatons from Helldivers 2 are not being monetized. I wanted to avoid any possible repetition of the same legal issue with Sony.
My position is genuine; I just really enjoy playing the game and made them because of it. I do modeling for printing because I like to.
@@EmanGameplay I thought you said it was a lie that you were stripping models out of hell divers II.
You tried to lecture me about my choice of words "the well of trust has run dry for you". wow lie after lie.
Really sorry, but i don't feel bad for him. Everything we do has a consequence to it. If he had stopped at the first cease and desist, and GW had still followed up like they have, then i would feel bad for him. But he ignored them and kept going and made money from it. Yes its easy to paint GW as the big bad guy here, and they certainly aren't covering themselves in glory either. But its also not a story of a hard-up dad stealing a loaf of bread to feed his starving children.
And don't for a minute think GW will be getting all those $, those lawyers will want their large % too (and its probably them telling GW not to accept the offers) since they probably dont get a GW discount for their armies!!
A pirate was warned and didn't listen....
Not to jump on you north but thats not right. a model without supports can easily be supported by a free 3d printing software. it takes some skill to get right every time but a complete layman can add supports relatively easy.
I swear his stl's where direct rips from total war 3. Did he end up making his own stuff in the end? Regardless GW are making an example of him to deter others. They are the konrad curze to patreons nostramo!
a new vid drops, i click. i dont even tabletop. havent in a decade, but those stories help keep me connected. I feel. kudos :)
Thank you for this follow up video.
Cosplayers are pretty much the safest as its probably the most transformative work that fans do and unless GW start making costumes there is no mistaking it as gw product.
He f#cked around and is now finding out. Absolutely deserved.
GW are perhaps being a bit heavy handed but the aim here is clearly to create a deterant and set the pecedant that if you do this sort of thing and get caught, you're entering a world of pain. It's not malicious its normal practice for this kind of thing. If you give folks a slap on the writs its not going to really achieve anything in the long run you'll stop this guy sure but it wont do anything about the next 20 guys. You're talking about proportional response, which to be blunt, only makese sense if you havent got the advantage, if youre in that position and want to remain there you come down on any transgression like this like a ton of bricks. The guy in quetion here had multiple warning shots and he ignored them. At that point he's an idiot who brought this on himself.
One thing I've always wanted to ask EmanG is if he uses ripped game assets as the basis for his work. I'm a 3D designer myself, and I've seen some of his models and they seem a bit fishy to me, very thin parts, and other things that don't look like they'd print nor that they've been designed with printing in mind. It wouldn't surprise me if he'd been ripping stuff out of Total War: Warhammer and trying to make it manifold/printable.
Sorta sounds like the dude poked the bear, the bear growled, and he kept at it.
I think this shows GW is worried about 3D printing as much as they like to pretend to ignore it. They aren't going after this guy for any money, they are going after him to frighten others from copying him. I think it is likely this guy is now trying to capitalize on exposure from youtubers to grow his Patreon. That is what I would be doing at least.
I don't think GW are worried about 3D printing. There will always be new people coming into the hobby. It's just a corporation doing what they have to to keep their rights protected. If they let him and others go, it will be a weaker case in court for them down the line if they try to claim IP/copyright
@Pinginging no they very much are worried about 3d printing as anyone who dares make proxie models that may look different but similar GW IS A SCUM BAG OF A COMPANY they literally have a higher profits margin then almost every other business in the whole world and are still hiking there prices higher and higher yes what emang did is wrong but honestly GW still sucks ass and won't stop until everyone leaves this game which is sad seeing how bad they are hiking prices on models that are more then 10 years old makes me regret getting into this hobby seeing how they are charging for more for everything while putting less and less in there battle force boxes and combat patrols there is no defense for this level of greed they definitely hate 3d printing as they will go after anyone making models that are in the same vain as them yes you can't use there ip but even when your model is different they don't give a shit as they know we know we don't fucking need them anymore and they can't even tell what models are there's or not as a whole 3d printed army won best army at on official gw tournament
@@Pinginging This is such a bs response, you don't see Blizzard shutting down private wow servers and their IP is still very much theirs....and this is fucking Blizzard we're talking about, somehow Blizzard has a better relationship with its customers than GW.
You should probably have done some research on blizzard before you brought it up! In 2010 they sued a private server called scapegaming for 85million and won, they have also through the years have served many cease and desist letters!
@@felipearias5622 actually, yes you do see Blizzard taking action against IP infringement.
I remember when a GW fan had the GW logo tattooed on the top of his arm. When it got back to the GW bigwigs they....SUED him for copyright infringement!
The big old MEANIES!
I think in the grand old days of games workshop, they woulda offered him a job for his talent, I wish him all the best hope he lands on his feet and eventually writes the whole story in as one hell of a hobby nightmare!
It sucks but I think m because he ignored the cease and desist they are making an example of him,
Best of luck to him but GW has a monopoly for a reason.
disgusting company honestly, i recently made the switch from GW to 3d printing. its a lot easier than people think!
For GW this isn't about the money it's about making an example of this dude to scare people. GW know that 3D printing is the sound of their death knell and are acting extremely aggressively to keep a stranglehold on a dying business model.
ROFL. 3D printing is niche and always will be. Dying business model look at their stock price.
Wait, hold up, stand still. Homeboy is in all this mess with GW while doing the same thing to $ony? Doesn’t sound like he’s learned a damn thing.
He hasn't learned shit, theres another comment on here outlining just how brazen he has been through the whole thing. And him still doing that with helldivers models says it all.
What is your evidence that I “ripped” models from Helldivers 2? That I’m selling them?
@@EmanGameplaythe problem is it doesn't have to be rips. If you do not change the source material by at least a percentage, you're going to get hit.
@@Grimangell135 There are subtle differences.
@@EmanGameplay Your actions destroyed your credibility. Particularly the ignoring of legal notices and false counter claims.
Stop stealing art, and you won't get in trouble. Its that simple. The Eye is on you and you should just spend some time making things that are unmistakably yours until this blows over.
Hes STILL got copyrighted work on his site STILL. He ignored cease and desists lots of times. Hes spoken to you. Hes still doing it to other companies. Thats WILLFULL acts for me.
I remember when GW kicked Armorcast out of the warhammer picture. Bastards........
GW did not enforce their ip for over 30 years they lost the right to defend their IP by now. They try to make an example out of the guy.
I don’t feel sorry for him he’s an adult and still refused the seizes and multiple warnings. Got to look at the ppl of gms view here you have a guy trolling a company and acting childish. Now he wants to cry wolf 🐺
I'd move to China if i was him. I would then open the biggest GW contraband 3d replica shop on Teemu, Aliexpress, etc. just out of spite.
The guy ignored multiple cease and desist notices and a copyright takedown strike, and despite all of this legal trouble he is in right now, he is still selling copyrighted material as his own.
I couldn't care about copyright infringement as piracy is based, but as soon as you start trying to profit from it, that's where I lose all respect for you.
Uploading content to the internet over the years (mostly mp3/FLAC rips) has cost me more money than its worth (seed boxes aren't cheap) and that's how it should be when your in this kind of scene.
Gayhammer40k is dead to me lulz.
A bit misguided here as I feel Northern hasn't been given all the information/has chosen to ignore some.
Emang was ripping models from the Total War games (I could be wrong there), uploading them support less for free and also offering supported versions via Patreon for money.
GW are well within their right to go ofter him and based on some other comments here stating cease and desist notices have been ignored, setting the gofundme etc. It's no wonder GW aren't settling.
I feel for the guy but you can't just flat out steal someone's IP and make money from it.
I do wonder how the likes of Station Forge etc. get around it (I know they aren't directly ripping GW models from games) because some of their stuff is very close (and also bloody brilliant 😂).
Made my comment then scrolled to see what others are saying.
North is basically the only person who seems to be trying to defend this guy and how much EmanG has done and continued to push when he was warned and GW sent legal papers and he still tried to push it.......
To quote north back on himself "read the room", EmanG has pushed too much to be able to just walk away without real punishment and GW can't publicly let their business be so undermined and not play their hand.
Comments section has spoken, GW os actually right........and thats a northern exile comments section.
Judging from the comments here looks like GW isn't the one getting the heat here. Let your hate go. Good to see lots of common sense in the comments. The room seems on the side of GW.
Tough luck for the guy, but you know what they say, play stupid games win stupid prizes.
GW are acting within their legal rights, and they cant afford to set a precedent in the court of the public that people get more than just a wrist slap for infringement.
Stupidity the number one reason why the world is the way it is.
You know, the dude wasn't very bright. He ignored C&D, and fought copyright claim notices...
I mean, FFS- all he had to do was make some generic "Green Skins", and "Disorder Warriors" and "Demons of the Quartet of Evil Gods", "Egyptian Undead", etc.
Sounds to me like the attorneys on GW side are getting paid via percentage of winnings, so they're gonna push for all of it and the kitchen sink
Yeah, that's probably why they simply asked him to stop at first. And then asked some more. Then decided we'll just have Patreon stop it for us and that will be the end of it. And that's why they then offered easy settlements. And the refusal to accept any of that leads us to the here and now of "OMG, GW IS GREEDY AND THEIR ATTOURNEYS MUST GET PAID BY THE AMOUNT THEY WIN IN COURT!" Yeah ... you really turned me around with your logical thought process. I see the true evil now ...
He sold freely available models, that is not stealing GW's IP. The whole case is bull.
Models you have to rip from a game are not "freely available" in any universe. Get real.
...would love to actually SEE wtf he was selling...
He did rip-offs of the chaos daemons, skaven, some orc and goblin stuff, war mammoths. I haven't played Total War, but he allegedly took the mesh files from there and just converted them into 3d printable files. He released them for free on Cults3D, and was selling supported versions. As a lot of people have said, slicing programs will all generate supports for you so I'm not sure why people were paying for free models
You don't need to pay for the files, every 3d printing software Has an auto support feature... You don't need any skill to do this, as I 3d print and use it alot. His patron is Purley a donations platform
That was his fallback though, He added the supports to the models so he could claim he made changes to the files.
Yea guess so but in GWs eyes that's like writing your name at the bottom of the mona Lisa and claiming you painted it
Auto supports doesn't mean it will print correctly. It does require some manual supporting if you want avoid failed prints for some models. You're just falling for this dudes grift.
Remember how the suits treat "their own",
How do you think they will treat outsiders ? ? ?
This is something American legal technics going on here. It likes like three there is a “ Typical example “ to be made here and thus regain some initiative regarding to keep people from doing this again. It kooks like the creator is gonna be sacrificed on the altar to keep the rumors going the GW will coming after you regardless of your size. This may be a way to get the initiative back fro GW and reassure the “fans” that GW
Still can do a “chapter house” event against you.
And it will be used as a warning. But still,
GW going so hard after EmanG shows how they are really afraid of 3D printing.
no, it doesn't.
All he needed to do was create his own loose interpretations and use alternate wording/naming.... Clothing manufacturers have been doing it for years. My parents used to buy me Nikk or Rebook (which were always a little shitty) lol
GW should hire the guy tbh his supports are phenomenal
Tangent - I'm wondering why people would need models with supports? Every slicer can procedurally generate supports, are there even slicers that can't generate supports?
Pre-gen supports are be unreliable at best. It's always better to look at the model itself and manually add them.
Auto-supports can give you a good starting point, but they’re unreliable. It’s always better to have the algorithm look for islands and then do them by hand.
They are making an example of him.
this whole support argument is bollocks most slicing software you can just hit auto and it will do it for you therefor that argument falls flat
and even with what GW are going after him for the IP theft he is literally sitting stealing form another IP and your trying to defend him north the dude knows exactly what he is doing and is playing the poor me card.
even today 98% of the "auto supports" are complete bullshit and unusable. they will still deliver failed prints.. spend ANY time supporting your own mini's (especially dynamic posed , high detailed, mini's ) and you would know this. even both of the two best youtube presenters on the subject have recently stated that auto supports is nothing more than a suggestion tool. (onceinasixside and Fauxhammer) there is a reason why a great many mini sculpting studios have resulted to hiring out dedicated supporting firms/teams/individuals to do the support work on their designs.. so no.. your "auto support" argument is "bollocks".
as for the second part of your statement.. i should hope you have seen the actual defendants filing... considering the exhaustive transformative process that is needed to be able to make a "game file" 3d printable, there is an abundance of argument that the WORK done from EmanG goes way int fair use, and with out the work done you can not just DL the game geometry, hit "auto support" and be able to print the file. by its very definition what EmanG was doing IS transformative.
@@blaqkhavok4863 i DO make my own supports for miniatures and when I cant be arsed with the work I slap auto and have very few fails more scaring but not more fails perhaps learn to set your printer up right and you'll have less fails, so I stand by my its a bollocks argument.
and the dude is stealing and profiting from someone else's work he is doing it with helldivers now, are we going to have the same sob story from him when Sony come knocking on his door and once again everyone running to defend him ? or will he learn this time you stop at the first cease and desist.
@@n1stro what's wrong with him making Helldivers minis??
Taking game assets and making em stls IS transformative, it's legal and since Sony doesn't have a miniatures business it's also safe to do.
@@blaqkhavok4863making stl files from game files isn't transformative even then the final product looks close enough to the IP to be mistaken for an official product that it could be still claimed as infringing. Even if you sculpted something entirely from scratch and selling it but made it look so close it could be mistaken as a gw product that could still be infringing. A good example of it done right is like ravagestar or scibor minatures (and plenty of other peoples sculpts) their "space marine" models are similar but distinctly different that they are obviously not gw minatures.
@@felipearias5622 bro don't even try and pretend that you know anything about copyright law lol
You're totally wrong in this case. Hes done this purely for money inspite of repeated warnings
This hot take is a steaming pile. I’m not a fan of a lot of GW practices but EmanG fked around and found out. I don’t feel sad for him.
Sorry; not really sympathetic. The guy knew he was risking reprisal and is now crying that he didn’t risk assess the potential reprisals accurately so it’s unfair.
So.... ignores legal cease and desist requests, did what he was not supposed to, and the injured party is the bad guy? You have lost the plot. GW sucks, but emon is in the wrong. He ignored warnings.
And he had Hell diver models out there????? Smh you are wrong. @northern
He has done wrong, stupidly wrong. But the main drive here was what is the correct punishment? A payable fine or bankruptcy?
boy who cried wolf... =GW.. those fuckers throw out DMCA takedowns, flags and IP theft claims like candy on Halloween. and on top of that a VERY large %of what they claim, they have NO RIGHT TO. but the because the automated systems are soooooo heavily in favor for the accuser rather than the accused, they generally get away with abusing this bully tactic. if you read into the case a bit more than what is covered and presented in this response review, you will see that this is VERY much a fair use doctrine case.. AND verry much a case of GW bullying with the power of the purse.... and not exactly who is right and who is wrong... they are pushing this BECAUSE they know he does not have the funds to defend himself.. NOT because they are in the right (as they present it).
@@Raygun9000 I really don't like defending GW, but if this were yours, would you accept that? Keep in mind he ignored several warnings.
@@lochmoigh1 accept what? What is the appropriate punishment? (They're not going to recoup damages, so it's just punishment, or an example)
So to be clear. He stole GW models and illegally sold them for profit. I have no sympathy for him
Unfortunately this poor guy will probably self delete with this kind of lawsuit. Id do the same thing if bankruptcy doesnt work😢
Hes not a poor guy, he brought it all upon himself.
Why is that not fair he has infringed their ip. Your going off his emails poor little guy illegally printing is of course going to be totally fair and balanced. How much has he cost them. Why does it have to be a token payment
Typical greedy corporations, games workshop used to be all about the fans 20 to 30 years ago but it's all about money now, too big, too greedy.
He is using direct asset rips from total warhammer 3 games and now helldivers.. the guys a fool.
He is literally stealing stuff. Im a fan of my local football club but I dont walk into their club store and steal merchandise 🤷♂️
@@Scoob609 What is your evidence that I’m selling models from Helldivers 2, or that I “ripped” them? I’ve done neither.
Just found your channel, debated whether to comment so here goes. Its been common knowledge with GW for many decades that you don't rip off their IP. It's black and white with no grey areas- you just don't do it. If you want to cross the line then you deserve any and all consequences 100%, especially with cease and desists being issued. I have no sympathy. I applaud that your channel is big into mental health issues, however those people with problems outside of their control are completely different to self inflicted ones. This wasn't a 'mistake'
That said, GW can still tone it down and would be good for them as a company to do so - I do think its unlikely though. As you said, companies have to vigorously protect their property and maybe these things wont have to happen for a long time.
So many in the comments that are cry babies and don’t understand what TM and Copyright means… He’s lucky that Sega etc ain’t doing the same, but they sure should do as this guy has been running onto podcasts playing the victim. EmanG should be ashamed and be punished by the law - he knew from the start that he was doing something wrong and he was proud of it🤣🤡
This is the shareholders pushing it. Would have done the same if I had shares in GW.
I don't stand for it either.... However from their perspectives, they're doing very much what Metallica did back in the day by making an example... Which don't get me wrong isn't right and any which way, but neither is the rampant copyright infringements (not necessarily by this individual, but more as a whole market)
...But they'll never stop the Chinese recasters....
In the end, business-wise, it's extremely bad optics. But GW has weathered storms like this and they don't give a s***.
Why should gw care about bad publicity? You said it yourself before, they've got no real competition. Where will everyone go realistically if they're tired of gw's shit?
Why are cosplayers afraid to touch 40k? They don’t sell their costumes so what’s the deal with that I haven’t heard about that before
They're not. I have several friends who are dedicated 40k cosplayers, and GW are fully behind their efforts, even to the point of giving them invitations and VIP access at Warhammer events. I'm afraid Mr Exile is as usual massaging the facts to fit the made-up narrative he wants to push.
First I’m hearing of this this, and while I fully expect GW to go hard on someone like this after the way they went after arch that could have seriously effected every other person who covers gw in there TH-cam videos, at this stage I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that they will come down from the initial demands, I doubt the will come to an agreement that dose not seriously hurt but I hope that it will be only a little above what is reasonable (reasonable being what he made off of it) but having said that I would not be shocked if they go for the max considering he did not listen to there seas and desist
They already offered settlements. He wants his day in court to, I dunno, make himself a martyr or something. Whole situation is entirely his own making. Could have walked away after the first, second or even third C&D and he wouldn't have lost a penny.
sounds a lot like the arch case, games workshop tends to malicious with their legal department
Simple case of F around and find out.
I thought that as long as the company doesnt sell the models even if they have the designs people can produce those models? Its like artists drawing things posting it
Artist at a recent cosplay event were served C&D letters from crunchyroll,for things they drew. This guy was giving free plans, but if you wanted the better plans you had to pay.
@@rungfang27 that's wild
them doing this is how i know warhammer plus isnt doing well
it is doing better than ever and their numbers are through the roof. Please look into this case and see why they are doing this.
No, they are doing this because it’s not HIS MODELS, how hard is it to understand this basic logic… This is what Sega should do as well.
@@ParaFoxxen basic logic also dictates hey I can't pay 500k and you are looking super greedy right now and giving yourself some bad pr
@@SirFryStirFry IP law requires you defend your IP.
If it was something you owned, would you also not go for the legal maximum after asking the person to stop multiple times? If that person counter-claimed you? If you don't know, a counter claim is an actual legal notice saying "No, this person copyright claiming me doesn't have rights to this IP", in short. EmanG filed this against GW's claim to Patreon.
Of course its the internet, and nobody can ever be wrong and it doesn't actually effect you, so you'll say No. Everyone with any life experience knows that goes out the window when you have actual stakes involved.
@@Optix334 never said don't defend it but taking him to the cleaners is fucked