Broadway Limited Leaked the Santa Fe BLUE GOOSE! + rant
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ส.ค. 2024
- Newly announced BLI ATSF Santa FEe Blue Goose!
Its since been shown that it WILL be a brass hybrid.
THE LATTER HALF OF THIS VIDEO IS JUST MY OPINION, You can disagree with it.
Also correction, PSC (precision scale) also made a Santa Fe Blue Goose model, but it was just as expensive if not more expensive than the Hallmark Super Crown model.
---------------
After a talk with Gopernoper: I realize the E6 is an excellent model that's in very high demand currently, and it would be dumb for BLI to NOT cash in on that. I still think it's just too expensive given what it is, and they could've spent their resources on another model that was equally popular yet non-existent on the HO market, but I can't blame BLI for cashing in. I do hope they give some other models some love though. Additionally, I didn't mean to put the Rivarossi Blue Goose in a negative light. I still think that in 2022 it is a very low end model with very little detail and a subpar (but long lasting) drive. BUT I do understand there is a market for them, notably collectors of Rivarossi engines, and those who are on a budget, and dont care nearly as much about accuracy or detail, and are okay with something that simply "resembles" a prototype. I never intended to imply that there is no market for rivarossi models and therefore people shouldn't buy them, but rather show that they are limited in certain aspects, and simply compare the current available options for those who want to own a Blue Goose right now.
There’s a simple reason why any manufacturer makes a model: because not everyone wants to or can work on their own stuff. Buying a brass loco let’s say it’s 150$ then you send it off to a specialist for paint DCC install and remotor/regearing and the like. That 150$ engine just became a 500$+ engine. People who can work on their own stuff circumvent this and only have to worry about the materials to upgrade the loco which you also have to take into account the time and effort to fix a loco and even then an arguably great loco can be a pain to work on or fix. Thus some people would much rather just buy a good looking accurate loco from a manufacturer like BLI or MTH, scaletrains or the like because the cost otherwise simply doesn’t equate when they could go get a RTR loco for X amount of dollars. Furthermore if there’s a demand why not tap into it? For me personally I think there’s enough PRR stuff on the market that it arguably isn’t warranted but since I’m not a PRR modeler (as you are very well aware) I wouldn’t know what people are asking for. Either way it all comes down to some modelers simply wanting an easy way to get their favorite loco (or at least one they desire) without having to either pay to get it running and look good or learn the skills to make it run and look good
and I get that. Like of course, an RTR version of the same model will cater to a different group of people, those who dont want to or are otherwise unable to work on their models. BUT, they couldve chosen an model of similar popularity, made as RTR to target the same group of RTR people, BUT also be a model that no one else has made, atleast not for under $1000. As a NYC fan I can name a few...the Mercury, the H10, the B&A D-2 4-6-6, as well as many other models such as the UP 49er, and many MANY other models. Its like if Bachmann made yet another Big boy. Yes, there is a market for a cheaper, lower end big boy that exists, but of all the engines they could bring to the masses, why not chose a model that's just as in high demand but hasent been made for less than $1000?
The RTR market (modelers who restrict themselves to buying exclusively RTR) makes up only a small portion of the entire HO community. Id estimate 40% tops. If BLI were to make a model that wasnt so widely available for cheap in brass, and brought something rarer into the market, it would cater to a much larger audience, and the high price would be justified.
Also I disagree with counting the price of outsourcing models to third party workers into the value of the model. Working with models is a huge part of the hobby. It would be the equivalent of selling my 4x8 layout for $6000 because Ive spent atleast 500 hours working on my layout ($10 an hour plus $1000 material cost). Yet I dont value it that much, and you shoudn't either. I dont count the cost of hours I put into my models into the value of the model, because its kinda the whole point of the hobby (for many of us). This hobby is ultimately a pastime, and this is how I chose to pass my time.
Number one on my wish list a Prr S1 6-4-4-6 !!!
Also B&O Cincinnatin 4-6-2, Southern Tennessean 4-6-2, Frisco Firefly 4-6-2.
all awesome models! Rumor says BLI has been developing the S1 for a few years now, but due to its sheer size (and because its a RIGID frame, the trucks dont turn individually), theyre having trouble making it run on tight curves. Unfortunately, BLI's main target audience are people with 22" curves...so its gonna be in development hell until they figure out a way to magically make an S1 run on such tight curves. For the record, brass PRR S1s required a minimum of 40" curves...and thats assuming the trackwork is PERFECT! Personally as a pessimist I dont see BLI ever releasing a S1...atleast not within the next 5 years. Cheers!
@@trainman440 I had an N scale Brass S1 it was the best running steamer I ever had !!! And with the weight of the 3 axle pilot, it rarely derailed. Now I model in 2 rail O scale that's 36 inches long Baby.
Honestly, I just wish Walthers Proto line would make a comeback.
this is facts.
Great video! I'm into O gauge and I have the MTH Premier version of this engine with PS3. I do believe that this BLI model has the incorrect shades of blue. They look too dark. My MTH O gauge version looks more correct as the shades of blue are much lighter in tone and the Hallmark Model shown in the video is exactly how the NTH version looks. MTH is very well known for getting the colors spot on.
Hey! Actually ATSF painted their blue gooses in a dark blue color as built. In around 1952, they changed the dark blue into a lighter shade of blue. I presume MTH based their Blue Goose off of the latter. BLI actually made both the light and dark versions, if you see from their site. Cheers!
8:41 these are some of the models they should have brought ,c&o 2-8-2 class k,western Maryland 1309, Santa fe 2-10-4 Texas type, Illinois central 2-8-2
I can agree with some of those, although I seriously question how high the demand for something like the C&O class K or IC 2-8-2 is...I know very few (under a dozen) modelers that would realistically buy one of those engines. And unfortunately that's the case for many models. None the less, I agree that BLI should diversify their models!
Still can't figure out why they haven't done PRR B6 or A5 switchers!
because unfortunately, unlike the E6 which EVERYONE will buy, no one except dedicated PRR fans like us will buy them haha :,)
We need a Royal blue
agreed!
while i do agree that the rivarossi blue goose is kind of inaccurate and not good looking, they didnt have too much to work with. even though they were a prosperous company, i dont see why they couldn’t have designed custom molds and chassis for the blue goose. i own one myself and it is quite cool but i keep noticing mistakes frequently. the biggest one i see is the valve gear. rivarossi uses baker but the original engine had walschaerts valve gear. like you said, the tender is just a new york hudson tender, and the pistons arent covered by a shroud on rivarossi models. overall i think its a great runner, but inaccurate.
Yes I agree. Rivarossi decided to half ass the Blue Goose. They didnt want to commit fully to a new engine...they tried using as much of the old the NYC hudson tooling as possible. The chassis and tender are all NYC, only the shell is a new piece (and even it still has NYC remitments).
Its way beyond just the valve gear, the ATSF drivers should be larger. ATSF used different looking rods than the NYC. They also used very different looking trailing trucks. The shell is also really wrong. Rivarossis blue goose has a NYC style turret cover, and the cab windows is comprised of 6 small rectangles, when the real blue goose cab window only had two large rectangles. The firebox is wrong, the weird elesco feedwater heater sticking out the side is wrong. I could go on and on, but rivarossi's blue goose is extremely inaccurate. It does sorta capture the appearance of a blue goose but looks extremely crude and fake to any dedicated ATSF fan. Cheers!
It would be nice if BLI would make a Russian Decapod.
It would be nice if BLI made a lot of things. I personally want to see some other train companies step up and actually gives BLI some competition. They seem to have a death grip on the steam locomotive market right now. I WOULD like to see something like a Wester Maryland 2-10-0 though :)
If anything, I would like Broadway Limited Imports do Paragon 4 HO tank engines because…..
….there aren’t any made like the HK Porters 0-6-0 Saddle Tank Engines like BEDT 15
Rant? OKAY if you say so. I'd always wanted somebody who made GOOD RUNNING plastic steamers to make some smaller SP engines, Valley Mallet's (Moguls) or their smaller Mikes. I have some brass, but it runs poorly when compared to engines made in this century. That is just a dream and will never happen I guess, not everybody has a layout able to run the bigger stuff. I guess us smaller layout paupers are not where the BIG BUCK's are. Enjoy!
I TOTALLY agree with you! Id love to see some more love for smaller steam engines. In fact, I appreciate Bachmann basing their engines off of lesser known prototypes such as the Greenbay and Western 2-6-0. That being said though, it is ABSOLUTELY possible to make brass run just as good if not better than modern RTR. Get some NWSL gearboxes and some can motors (Mabuchis are only $3). You could also respring the bearings using some softer springs. After some repowering and regearing your brass will run smooth as butter :)
@@trainman440 Maybe not, I'm not as steady as I was when I started in this hobby. Heck, that was almost 60 years ago. Plus I just don't feel like doing that sort of thing these days. I don't have unlimited time like I felt I had even 30 years ago. Now I feel like making every minute count. The only real modeling I do now is stuff I can get done in a few hours. I have three Bachmann Spectrum steamers, none run any more, I think the rubber bands all died, or whatever passes for connecting the motor to the drivers. I have no idea on replacing what not working. If I could get those running, that would be good enough for now. The 2-6-6-2 was slated to be made to resemble two engines SP bought used and ran them in L.A. until the end of steam, even got Vandy's for all three locos.
I have a 2-8-0 and a 2-10-0 which are supposed to be in service on my Arizona desert railroad, they also died. My last brass is Westside TW-8 4-8-0 done up for SP. It runs okay, but better in reverse than forward. Glad I put a back of tender light when I could still see.
@@4449John thats unfortunate, Im willing to help a friend out if you need any work done, i just charge minimum wage for my time. Not trying to promote my work (id much rather prefer to not work on other peoples models), but if need someone Im always willing to help! Anyways thats really unfortunate I know you can buy more bachmann rubber bands on their parts store. If you need help Ive disassembled a dozen bachmann 2-8-0s at this point so im always available to answer questions!
As an NYC fan, I really like thr AHM version. I like the combination between the Dreyfuss Hudson and Blue Goose, two of my favorite engines. Accuracy isn't everything for me, but I do hope people enjoy the BLI Blue Goose.
Im glad youre happy with the rivarossi version! Yea the Riv version does kinda look like a fantasy dreyfuss + Blue goose combo, and Im sure people are into that kinda thing :)
I think E6 was actually a good choice to bring to the market for a few reasons. BLI’s PRR product line has generally been well received and sold consistently. Stemming from that PRR is definitely one of the more modeled railroads out there. Also while many other manufacturers have come out with the E6 It’s been awhile since a new one has been brought to market. People may balk at the price but they will sell out. You could throw one together second hand for less but if you wanted a smoke unit like BLI’s that may be a task some modelers are not up to, not to mention additional cost. BLI’s brand is ready to run DCC
My issues with them, is that BLI could not have chosen a safer engine to make. I mean especially with 460's cosmetic restoration done, many people will be looking for an E6 model. And yes I am a PRR modeler myself, but there are LOTS of other engines they really could be making, many of which that arent even made in affordable brass all together. Yes, the brass E6s are old and some need some work, BUT atleast options exist. BLI couldve brought something (arguably) equally famous yet only very limited quantities and expensive brass is the only options....or engines that aren't made in HO all together. BLI couldve brought one of these to the HO market, but instead they chose a model that is already fairly common. I realize many modelers are RTR only and dont want to work with brass. and I know BLI has to chose prototypes that they can guarantee will sell. I just wish they could choose some riskier prototypes....like the NYC mercury or B&O big six. Things that aren't exactly obtainable for for modelers, both RTR or those of us who ARE willing to work on models. Cheers!
@@trainman440 I completely agree, and this E6 will probably help to offset any costs of the Blue Goose production which is basically the “Equally Famous very limited production” If they just didn’t more risky low number productions the cost of those models would skyrocket to O gauge prices. I completely agree with you’re request though I’d personally like to see how Broadway would handle some geared locomotives or even take a stab at the UK market but they gotta put out safe products to offset that risk.
Already ordered the SP Atlantic version. Waiting for the Blue Goose to go on pre order. That price on that Atlantic is high for what it is but I paid $250 for a new brass model, added $150 of electronics so if it sells for $450ish its right in the ball park. The hobby is expensive and getting more so with the current inflation rate.
nice! out of curiousity why did you order the SP fantasy version? Do you model SP? do you like fantasy engines?
@@trainman440 I model mostly SP and SP had Atlantic’s.
@@MikesProjectsandHobbiesMC okay but these PRR E6s look nothing like the atlantics SP had. There are many good looking brass atlantics (like the Westside A6 or PFM A3) which look much better than these BLI ones and some are even factory painted!
@@trainman440 I have a Westside Models brass Atlantic with factory paint in the Daylight scheme so yeah I know what’s out there. It will be interesting to see a picture of the actual BLI model instead of the rendering that’s for sure.
@@MikesProjectsandHobbiesMC if you have a westside why bother getting a fake E6 SP 4-4-2??
Why did I get recommend a video for a locomotive I just put a per order on? Hopefully I won't regret my decision
lol you wont hopefully!
id love to see them do the non skirted 3060's, plan on a 50's variant goose though
you mean 3460s right? I totally agree! The GPM are a bit out of my price range haha....
Currently trying to superdetail a tenshodo model but its proving to take a lot of time...
It is strange because, there was only one Blue Goose, but they usually make at least 5 versions/road number variations.
They'll find a way to paint it in 10 different fantasy road names :) I could see them painting it in the B&O Cincinnatian or NYC Empire state schemes
As someone with a Hallmark Blue Goose I will be glad to see where the prices lie in a year or so. I blow hot and cold on brass as I own all types. I'm currently looking at my new Sunset AC-9 coupled ahead of my Intermountain AC-12. There's no doubt the AC-9 is a bit better but 5x better no. Back to the Hallmark. This one is just so nice in the flesh that I doubt BLI will get close - or close enough to kill the Brass market. I hope :D I had a Predision Scale DM&IR M4 and I currently have an MTH one which I am very happy with and despite its arrival the PSC ones still hold their value and have been creeping up, but it's an interesting topic for sure.
Brass and RTR these days are getting close, I honestly dont really care which I get these days...whichever is cheaper lol. I just hate how RTR prices are now so freaking expensive, often more expensive than brass, yet people are STILL buying them. Very jealous of that hallmark blue goose lol....who knows, maybe the value of them will drop enough when BLI releases their version so I could pick one up?
This well be something if we wish for it. Plus everyone wishes Broadway Limited Imports makes 2-8-4 Bershires NKP 700's, PM 1200's, C&O 2600's, C&O Kanawha 2700's. That's why everyone was waiting to see if Broadway limited makes those soon.
Im just tired of all the cliche choices. They'll probably make a C&O 2-6-6-2, despite bachmann already making one, theyll probably make a santa fe 2900 class 4-8-4 since that one is also getting restored. They'll probably cash in on 5550 being complete by making another run of T1s in paragon 6 that costs double of what the original paragon costed. etc. Businesses gotta make money I get that, but I just wish they could make something thats aimed for improving the greater good of the hobby.
Might be brass but could be diecast like the streamlined k4. The streamlined engines don’t really have a lot of detail so it could be done fairly easily. I’d prefer the brass option honestly. Broadway Limited always puts more effort into those.
Its since been confirmed to be brass. And I disagree, while yes, streamlined engines mean less detail to put on, it also means that certain areas like the shrouding on the tender sides near the top, or the side shrouding is much much thinner, as it should be. Bachmanns streamlined k4 is a glaring example of this, the shrouding looks MUCH too thick due to its plastic contruction. PRR 3768's design doesnt have much of this exposed shrouding thats why it was an okay choice for being made from brass, but something like the dreyfuss or the blue goose I absolutely disagree that a plastic model would suffice. But that's just my opinion. Cheers!
I plan on running a model railroad of Los Angeles in 1950. Not sure if the Blue Goose found its way to LA very often,, they usually operated it east of La Junta, so I'm on the fence about getting one.
I would be more excited if they had also announced a few of the unstreamlined Hudsons, as those are a bit harder to come by and I hate installing my own sound cards.
Also a >$600 price point really makes me shy away from BLIs newer releases.
@@TrinityShoji I totally agree, and usually Id also be against $500+ price points (see my roster lmao) but this is an exception because the prior Blue Goose models were all easily $1500 and I was actually somewhat prepared to buy one in the distant future. Therefore, while I do think models shouldnt cost more than $500, BLI is sort of saving ATSF modelers money here. And yea I do believe the blue goose (along with her sisters) were located more toward the east of the ATSF system. I agree Id LOVE to see some more ATSF 4-6-4s. The westside ones (in the fleetwood series) are exceedingly rare, and the GPM are $$$. I currently have a tenshodo 4-6-4 that I want to spruce up and improve the accuracy on (including all new drive and lowering of the boiler), but its gonna take a while. Cheers!
You forgot about the best model of the blue goose already which is the precision scale
Actually I realized that right after uploading and talked about PSC's Blue goose in the description. No one reads those anymore tho.
Might be picking one of these up… provided I’m not broke and they’re not out of stock by the time I have money…
yea haha I feel that, Im saving up rn for one. I doubt they'll sell out too fast, seeing how the dreyfusses lasted a while to the point many retailered dropped the prices after a few months. Cheers!
The downside, is that Broadway Limited Fucked it up in the preproduction sample... there quality control is ASS!!!
wait whats wrong with the preproduction sample?
@@trainman440 The nose is wrong... again...
@@modelrailwaybackshop the nose is wrong? Can you provide more insight? I am in no means a Blue goose expert but to me the nose looks fine. Also you mentioned the preproduction sample has bad quality control, I dont understand what you mean by that.
I'm guessing the E-6 is coming out because of the prrt&h survey that they did two years ago I think. I'm hoping to see them in the 350-400 range over 400 is a lot for an E-6 with the brass options available.
Here's hoping for a G-5 at some point.
I’m really excited for the PRR E6 too! I want to preorder one so badly but the price is preventing me. ☹️
@@brodieforsha2696 I agree, I think the a G5 or a D16sb (although I wouldnt buy either) would be better choices. The number of brass E6 made though just doesnt warrant for BLI to mass produce more, especially at more than double the price. I realize theres an RTR market that doesnt like working with models that BLI is catering toward, but that market is just a small part of the mass HO market. Probably makes up 40% at best. Most people are cool with working with their models. Thats just my $0.02 though. Cheers!
When BLI comes out with the Blue Goose, I will wait on one of the Hallmark ones to come up for sale lol
Lol yea same, honestly I'll see how much the Hallmarks drop, and I'll just buy whichever one's cheaper.
Valley Flyer was semi streamlined 2 locos only
Yea, when i meant streamlined I meant to any degree. Was there two valley flyer streamlined engines? I thought there was only one. I do like the 1337 engine, but not enough to own one.
No Blue Goose for me. Great choice for them to build but not a railroad I model. I will get a E6s, even though I don’t really need one, but I have to help the cause for them building PRR engines, maybe a M1 will come. I would also like to see a B&O big six, and C&O engines like a K- Mike or F- pacific
I totally agree, Id like to see them completely retool the M1, as their original tooling was very poor in terms of detail. Plus most brass M1s are either extremely expensive (oriental,challenger) or poorly detailed/out of proportion (gem, westside). How many E6s do you have now??? I swear i see a new video with a new E6 every month from you! PS my alt account was the one that commented on your oil e6 #13.
@@trainman440 The M1 is not the model BLI did. They did the M1a and M1b. Some parts could be reused. But the cylinders, boiler and chassis would need to be new
@@jdove6688 Yea I get that, I should clarify, Id like to see them remake the M1a and M1b. All retooled to have less/no molded on piping. I realize they arent the same. An M1 would be equally cool, since they had significantly more numbers of those than the M1a and M1b. But that's just my $0.02.
Sign me up!!!
Precision Scale also made the Blue Goode
Yes they did! I wrote that in the description. I remembered they did as soon as i was done recording the audio but didnt feel like rerecording it all. figured id just place it in the description but I guess no one reads those anymore. Cheers!
That has got to be one locomotive i'd never heard of.my god it's a beauty.sad that the engine was scrapped.
Really youve never heard? Maybe Im just biased cause ive known ATSF for my entire life. Yea its crazy this was one of their kind, ATSF never did bullet nose streamlining ever again. Glad I could educate people! Cheers!
Never heard of the Bluegoose or that Atlantic?
@@MikesProjectsandHobbiesMC i meant the bluegoose .sorry did say anything .busy with some stuff.
Thanks for that hint! In fact there is one more type of collectors that look for the Rivarossi Blue Goose: the ones that don't like the Tenshodo model and love the Hallmark model but can't get their hands on one or simply can't afford it. These people hunt for a cheap, run down Rivarossi Blue Goose and then spent hours on end to make it look like a Hallmark model (I believe, Gopernoper dislikes these people, as they destroy the Rivarossi originality : ))). I'm one of these and here is the result of my experiment: th-cam.com/video/iQGGeKog0jw/w-d-xo.html. Far from Hallmark, for sure. But hey, hours of fun and fiddeling around.
Oh wow! You actually did a great job with the detailing! How did you get the streamlined tender? Did you take it from a tenshodo, or did you manually make the streamlined sides and place them on a BLI tender? Im impressed by how good it looks! Only thing Id fix is the cab roof haha...thanks for sharing!
@@trainman440 Thanks for the kind feedback. The tender is from BLI Blueline 4-8-4 3759, which was the first US model in my collection 14 years ago. I cut the streamline fairings at the bottom and top from transparent plastic sheets, glued them on and airbrushed them. Unfortunately, the plastic could not be curved.
The cab was indeed a big problem. The Rivarossi mold is based on the NYC Dreyfuss Hudson with a swept front, lattice windows, three roof hatches, and much lower clearance. This was much too low for the oil tender. Therefore, the only way out I found was to put the roof of a Bachmann Santa Fe Northern on top of the Rivarossi roof. Unfortunately, I couldn't think of anything to fill the resulting gaps on the front side - that really doesn't look that great. But it now has the correct height, fits the tender and from most angles it looks alright :)
@@KS-oe1bv Yea thats what I had assumed you had done. Maybe some of that molding putty would have helped in blending the two pieces together better? Also the paint job is great, what did you use for the chrome?
Hi there, seems like my last answer went missing : ) - Regarding the silver stripes: when I had a closer look at the few high-res pictures of the de-skirted 3460, I figured that the silver stripes where in fact riveted sheets of stainless steel, aluminum or indeed chrome. So I needed something shiny that also gave a threedimensional look. For that, I reverted back to an idea which I already had, when I wanted to make my Rivarossi Milwaukee Road F-7 look a little more realistic, albeit whithout touching its originality: metal washi-tape, which I cut to the right size and just stuck it where it belonged.
Hi guys 😁