Machining Some ABSURDLY Tiny Parts
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ย. 2024
- In this video we tackle some incredibly tiny parts on the Haas! The mill was up for the challenge, but I struggled.
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The first thing I thought of was it's job for EDM. I was thinking about the best way to do this job. One strategy may be using your high RPM machine to mill small graphite electrodes to use to electrical discharge machine the small holes. Then use your mill to machine another electrode with a shape of a counter bore in it to use to burn the main outside profile. Then a wire edm to use to cut off to length. The edm process has a large advantage over conventional milling in this part example. One the edm process does not actually touch the part hence eliminating the burring problem. Another strategy may be using a flat ground plate and use a hole-popper which is an edm process of making starting holes undersize for the wire of a wire-edm machine. The wire-edm could then be used to edm the holes to size. I used to own a mold-making business. I actually just got a cm1 hass like you have for my garage shop. I am planning on using it to make some aluminum molds for silicone soft-plastic fishing lures.
That totally makes sense. and I would love to move into EDM. Half of the jobs I take require super tight corner radii, and a EDM would be incredibly helpful for that.
not sure if graphite is the best material because of how thin the graphite "boring drill" have to be. high speed might be able to cut it, but any minimal texture in the bit could mean breaking the graphite tool (high form factor, low strength material). maybe using the drill bit to machine a negative of the tooling in the graphite and then burn it into other piece of graphite or copper. and then use the copper to burn the geometry into steel.
It certainly a EDM job. but I would call it a easy one for the amount of thing that can break in the process. but easier to debug than milling it, for certain.
@@giuseppebonatici7169 I thought the same thing when I was pondering this part. We used to grind a lot of small graphite electrodes in my old shop on a surface grinder. We used a Harig grind-all fixture and spun the graphite into the side-edge of the grinding wheel. The trick was to leave plenty of stock on the electrode and take the finish pass right to size. I think the same thing could be done with the high speed spindle of the milling machine. The trick with these type of micro parts is not to creep up to the dimensions. You have to leave enough stock for strength as possible then take to size.
I was thinking the cheapest improvement to make the process more efficient would be to magnetize his tweezers and needle nosed pliers. After losing the part for the 2nd or 3rd time I would be clawing my eyes out with frustration.
@@AudacityMicro actually another thought came to mind. If you think about the cutting path program for a second. Say you leave a small amount of stock, maybe .060 or maybe even a little more on the od of the part. You will need this for strength. Then you program a cutter path with a very small cutter. The cutter needs to be smaller than the od of the small holes. Then use an adaptive tool path program and step-down from the top to the bottom in very small increments maybe .001per step-down. This way you would cut right to size in each of your step-down and maintain strength in the part through out the cutting process.
dude out here making revolver parts for ants
You caught me 😂
that's one of a hell of untapped Market
@@locksmith7621 what is the currency of ants?
@@FriskTheFallen first stage give them arms
second stage install a puppet Queen
third stage profit
@@FriskTheFallen antcoin , they deal in ant-fts ;)
It is like watchmaking. When you are assembling a watch and grip one of the screws too tightly with your tweezers, it disappears into low earth orbit...
I think I need to do some reading up on watch making. I think there's a lot to learn from that field, that I could apply to my own work.
We Watchmakers call that the "Swiss Space Program" 🤣
I actually make watchparts with my Lathe and Mill, and when parting off with the lathe, make sure you catch the part with a piece of Tube, to prevent it falling in the Chiptray.. because when it does.. you'll never find it back, because some of the Chips you make can easily be larger than the part..
I love the work you put into making similar parts to show us. Unique feature of your channel.
I would suggest a glovebox when handling on the bench, maybe?
The watch YT channels I watch use a blue tack like substance to hold onto parts called Rodico. Less impulse possibility. Also this sort of a part seems like a good excuse to shop for a stereoscopic microscope. I wish I had one for soldering. @@AudacityMicro
A story i heard that I don't know if is true or not: Back in the day during the NASA apollo missions - the engineering team needed "the worlds smallest drill bit" for some unknown purpose. Once the mission was over they sent out a plaque with this drill bit to many of their engineering partners around the world. The plaque read "Worlds smallest drill bit" or something like that.
One recipient was Omega in Switzerland - as they were making the astronaut mechanical watches.
NASA was puzzled when the plaque was sent back from Omega with only a note saying "Look closer - we got smaller".
NASA took a look at the drill bit that was sent back under a microscope - only to find that Omega had drilled through their "world smallest drill bit" ... a long the long axis. Essentially making it into a tube.
It's not true, but a good yarn nonetheless. This is often retold with who made the drill and who drilled through it and sent it back changed.
i remember this told as japan scientists made it and german scientists drilled down the middle of it. its a fun story for a young tinkerer.
I really wanted that story to be true. It was told to me that they threaded a cap on the end and put their drill bit in the enclosed pocket.
Can't imagine why anybody needs a part so small and what gave them the idea they could hire someone to make it. I've had larger objects in my eye and kept working.
Usually the medical industry requires tiny parts. Makes the holes in you body smaller if you get surgery.
Well, if a stainless part flies, it is likely gone for ever. Mild steel you could possibly recover with a magnetic sweeper… As to the instruments and tricks, I agree that an optical comparator is something to try. Just keep in mind exactly what type and size is relevant. You could of course consider a full optical comparator, where you move the part to match its shadow to fine reference lines and read the XY movements from the stage movement controls. Or you could try a stereo microscope with a reference grid But whatever instrument you use, the first step is to secure the part to something reliable. I believe the watchmakers have for a long time used something like children’s art putty. Other idea I have is securing the part in a hole with some adhesive, wax or hot melt, or even UV curing CA, wich later on can be made to release with about 150 to 170 degrees C temperature. The UV curing is speedy (so you don’t lose part before the glue is cured). About 5 seconds in my experience. Besides different tweezers, surgical knives might prove handy, especially the slender triangle shape blade, for the presumably tiny burs removal. The blades don’t last, but are easy to replace
@@InssiAjaton As a watchmaker i can confess that we often use shellac to fix parts to machines.. you could "Stick" a 0.3 mm dial to a lathe on a so called "Wax chuck" that is just a brass disc with grooves cut in the face, you heat it up, and apply shellac, then stick your part to it let it cool, and machine.. heat up and put in alcohol to remove the shellac
Jewellers also use shellac to fix jewellry to something, to set gemstones..
The "Clay like Putty" we use is called "Rodico" we also use it for cleaning.. but Blu Tack will also work, though it leaves more residue..
For deburring, we use "Degussit Files", small grinding stones.. for actually "Cutting" away Burrs.. i use a piece of Toolbit, round ø3 mm, ground and polished to a triangle point..
What was the part? A chip? I can’t possibly imagine that staying in your eye….
A microwave cavitron for handheld spy equipment.
We had to reverse engineer some parts for an endoscope once. Some of the screws were so small they looked like slivers of steel. With 35 years of design experience it was like I had never designed anything before in my life.
I don't actually know what the part is getting used for. But based on some context and wild guesses, it might actually be in that realm.
@@AudacityMicrothat makes sense, cable channels. I was thinking splitting out a fiber optic cable, but the fiber probably goes through the center hole lol
@@ke6gwfmaybe some control cables as well on the outside, and power /fiber for a light?
Smallest I've done was a grid of .005" holes drilled into a 3/32" square of copper for a prototype cell phone connector. I drilled holes .001" at a time by hand for 3 weeks
@@AudacityMicro I'd guess a one-off prototype device for a medical startup company. Some kind of implantable device? Maybe pacemakers, insulin pumps, it could be anything really.
For the burrs on the radial holes... if it was me (making something larger) I would drill all those holes, then insert pins into them, then machine around the outside.
That way, the holes are filled and the edges are supported during the cut, as well as keeping the holes clear. After machining, Knock out the remaining parts of the pins, done!
Take care of yourself. You're scaring me staying up so late and always being busy with orders.
I also saw you had friends/family, don't let yourself be carried away too far for the sake of work, first for you, second for them.
I know it's hard being overwhelmed/always busy. Take care :)
(also very informative video, thank you for sharing your experience!)
I do appreciate your concern, but I would like to put it on the record, that I get far more time with my family now, than I did when I worked a 9-5. Probably more sleep too.
The difference is that sometimes I'll have days where I'm booked solid and working stupidly late. And then I'll have other days where I just decide to skip work so I can do something with my kids. And most days I get to eat all three meals with my family.
So I work hard, and there are some very long days, but overall I'm happy with the balance
@@AudacityMicro glad it works out for you :)
Still, take care and don't be afraid of speaking to your close ones if you need help :)
@@AudacityMicro The bags under your eyes are unhealthy looking
@@almarkowbender some people are born like this. And sometimes, it's a vitamin deficiency that some people live their whole lives not knowing they have. Dark circles can mean A LOT of different things. It's not always a lack of sleep. And even when it is, it's not usually easy to reverse that.
Jewelers use black velvet. as a work surface when setting small diamonds. Small objects don't roll or bounce on velvet, and they shoe up against black ,
That makes a lot of sense! I definitely need to work out a better work area if I'm going to keep doing this stuff.
A microscopic drone with a hint of plutonium is an assassin dream..
I thought diamonds had no sole?
Yes, exactly. Just what I was going to write.
Vat iz dat? Velvet? (Coming to America)
One tip for tabbing parts, if they have a thru hole try and interpolate around the thru hole leaving a thin ring of material around the hole. You can then use a deburring tool to remove the burr
Oooh! That makes sense! Thanks!
I do tiny surface mount PCB soldering, get a true stereo microscope you will be amazed how much better you can see the small parts. White terry cloth topper on the table will help keep the parts from escaping.
That's on my list! Some sort of better magnification. But I need to invest in some better metrology stuff first. A toolmakers microscope would have saved me SO much time on these parts
@@AudacityMicroYou don't need a lot of magnification when it comes to microscopes. You need resolution. Any high quality 30x microscope will be better than a low quality 500x one and will allow you to see a lot more stuff
@1994 On my B&L I use a 20x (10x eye piece with zoom at about 2x) plus an add on 0.5X Barlow objective lens to give better working distanced for soldering. The net magnification with the Barlow is only 10x. some times I zoom to 45x but not often.
This is a reminder of machining holder jigs for integrated circuits back in the late 80s. A true gravy train job that I loved. Everyone else thought it was a nightmare. This shows the difference between men and boys. Just to many boys in the shop that CRY !!! I always loved a challenge PERIOD !! Keep on machining fella.
To prevent losing parts, consider a small rim around your desk and a jewler's apron to catch anything that falls on your lap.
A black velvet/suede lined tray to place on your table when working with small parts would really help when handling easily droppable parts since the lining would stop them from bouncing or rolling around.
Yes, It's me again... Have a peek at Archie Perkins books on "The Watchmakers Lathe" and his three volumes on "Antique Watch Restoration". Won't solve all of life's problems, but perhaps will give some insight on making quite small parts. George Daniels "Watchmaking" is a classic as well. You're certainly getting the most from the Haas, more than I would have expected. I'd be having fantasies about Kern and Tornos machines in your shoes :-) Well done pulling off those parts!
As for watch making putty like materials, AF RubOff and Rodico are two useful material, although in a pinch well balled up white bread (less any crust) with a wee bit of distilled water can sometimes save the day. Parts nests in pith wood are nice, although real pith wood is hard to find these days. Hard balsa or basswood is a fairly useful second choice. Hang in there, you're doing amazing things with the machines you have at hand! For work holding, CA glues break down in acetone, shellac flakes melt at fairly low temps and dissolve / clean up in alcohol. As you are finding out, it's often how to hold the darn thing to work on it more than what to do with or to the thing once you can hold it that makes life exciting.
Tweezers are a tool that most take for granted. Carefully shaped and sharpened tweezers with flat faces that close perfectly without squirting parts out or drawing the part inwards are a wonderful thing to use. Few folks outside of watch making and hybrid micro electronics learn the fine art of tweaking and keeping high dollar fine tweezers in good shape, but considering what you are dealing with it's a subject worth getting cozy with perhaps. Dumont #3 and #5 tweezers are a good place to begin if shopping. Not inexpensive, but tools you buy once and treat well. The tweezers drawer in my watch makers bench is probably one of the most expensive little bits of real estate on this island. At a lower cost, some of the Hobbytown branded tweezers are amazingly good for $10 or so, just had a chance to try some out at a model making show and ended up buying some. I'm just a sucker for tweezers it seems. You are doing things many folks would never even consider possible or would attempt. It's not always an easy path doing the odd, tough, and obscure jobs, but it sure is satisfying. Best of luck, you're doing wonderful things.
Remember to get some sleep. A well rested mind makes better decisions, your vision is better, and your hands are far steadier. I would never touch a high value timepiece or complex repair late at night, even if I felt good. Better to take it on in the morning while well rested. It might be worth building a little more slack time into your scheduling wherever you can afford to. I know it's hard to balance the hard drive needed to build a business and the need to live like a normal human. When I had a three to six month backlog it drove me crazy trying to get out from under it. Once I accepted it, and determined what could be done to a high standard of workmanship in a day and refused to force myself past that point my life became far more pleasant. The backlog went from being an overwhelming monster to becoming a buffer to fill in those days the phone didn't ring. Before leaving the cubical farms of government contracting to frolic with clocks and watches I knew I was getting too wrapped up in it all when I would dream in code. I'm retired now, might not have made it if I hadn't learned to manage my self expectations.
Cool content. I had to drill 1000 holes in PEEK with a 0.001 drill. They cost $147 each and I broke 2 just getting them out of the package. So I know your pain
Oh my gosh, that's terrifying 😂
That is the stuff of nightmares
How many were in the pack and how many did you go through? Thats wild lol
The customer must have pretty deep pockets to even think about making a thing like that
I think I bought 10 total. I broke 2 right away, then one just from an automatic tool change, and 2 getting the feeds and speeds right. Then one drill did 460 holes, the next one 200+, the one after that like 25, then the last one closed it out. I still have 2 on my desk. The part went to space for science experiments on cell growth so $ wasn’t as big an issue. A redesign of the part now uses commercially available filter material so i hopefully wont need those drills again. It kept me up at night
sir, this is ridiculous. the smallest part I've ever made was 2 inches in diameter. the fact you have the patience and will to do this is amazing. you have my respect.
As part of setting up the organized workspace for small parts invest in some large pieces of white fabric or butcher paper to put down on the work surface and floor so you can more easily spot dropped items.
That is a fantastic idea. A few other people mentioned using something like a lunch tray. Some combination of both may be the way.
@@AudacityMicro Both have their place for sure. I brought up the butcher paper because it can double as a blank canvas to help keep kiddos entertained and its just about the most economical way to make large areas a flat consistent color. Keep up the awesome work, so glad the algorithm decided I was worthy of knowing about your videos!
@@AudacityMicro you could get one of these silicone soldering mats that have small pockets and compartments for putting tiny electronics parts into
@@fxshleinand as an FYI, this is a much better use for those mats than their intended purpose: those silicone mats are not antistatic, so they’re actually not safe to use on electronics. (Which is a damned shame, since they would be super handy.)
I'm only a quarter of the way through the video, and I just about passed out from laughing. "So, Let's make another one!" x4 🤣
I usually cheer when I see cats in videos, but seeing your girl hanging out in the machine shop with dad made my heart smile!
I assume that when you aren't as busy that you are letting her play with your toys and make stuff with you? ;)
I have three daughters, two of which are old enough to be in the shop with me. They don't usually like to spend too much time in the shop with me, since it tends to be loud, but my shop is on the same property as my house, so I still get to see them throughout the day. Being able to spend time with my family has been a huge reason I've stuck with the whole entrepreneur thing, even though there's been some super tough moments. Someday they will be old enough to get a little more hands on in the shop.
I would suggest painting the surface of your inspection table matte black. That way, the only thing that reflects light back to your eyes are the tiny parts so they’re way easier to see. And for God’s sake, put a small lip around the perimeter of the table so tiny stuff can’t roll or slide off the table.
Biggest takeaway for me from this vid is the burr manipulation concept with alternating climb and conventional milling, how tiny size changes can have a decent impact and ending about how important certain things around work desk, work holding out of stock and optical measuring tools.
As a hobbyist watchmaker I would also recommend you get/make a tall workbench. We use a bench that is about at shoulder height. This makes it easier on your neck. Get yourself an Optivisor magnifying headband. Also those carbide micro drills are way too long. They should be more stubby. Could you break off most of the flutes and regrind? Don't know if possible
I had a watchmaker friend that had worked in a standards lab during WW2 working with millionth's of an inch. Then after the war he taught until he retired. Watchmaking was his hobby. I remember one project he showed me. It was a balance staff from a woman's wrist watch. One pivot was worn down about 3 ten-thousandths so he machined a thin sleeve, brazed it on, then turned it down to spec. He would have loved to have had access to equipment like this and the crazy intricate things it allows a skilled machinist to create.
A TH-camr named Robrenz has shown some measuring to millionths. He showed how much metal moves with just the heat of,your hand. Precision metrology is absolutely wild.
@@TsunauticusIV Yup, I remember my friend said that everything was done at a standardized temp of 68 F. He still had a few machining samples he'd had to do by way of proof that he could do that level of work. One was a plate with a hole in it, and a machined rod. The rod would fall though the hole over a period of about 10 mins. But it only worked at the right temperature. That's crazy precision.
so they make ceramic tipped tweezers. it's great cause they are non magnetic and more ridged than metal tipped. they aren't expensive so give them a try, I love them
Wow, those are some small parts, excellent work! Quick tip for making it easier to handle those small gauge pins, put some tape on one end to make a tab. Makes them easier to hold and find when you put them down, you can also mark the tape with the pin size, handy when using go no-go pins.
Ooooooh! That's smart! I'm definitely doing that in the future!
This reminds me of a fiber optic transmitter I designed in Solidworks. Long story, when my initial order showed up from the vendor I was shocked on its physical size. After months of design my mind was expecting something larger. It would have fit nicely on a penny. The hole for the fiber was .7mm. So yours is way smaller.
I kinda got the impression that this was for something similar actually. at least that's my guess based on the customer, and some of the tolerances on the drawing.
This dude, "Lets make another one!" Me, on the ground with a magnifying glass for days.
You'd do the same thing with SMD board assembly. Never order just enough parts, you'll lose half of them just breathing wrong.
Two things you can try to debur tiny parts like this are (1) grit blasting and (2) steel shot tumbling. Micromark sells a benchtop grit blaster for like $200, and shot tumblers are cheap as well. I've use these when manually machining tiny watch parts and it works well, granted I work mainly with brass.
Great work, man. Very interesting channel.
Amazing how not only parts can be made so small but the tools to make them can be made even smaller.
Look at a jewelers apron. One edge goes around your neck and the other edge attaches along the edge of the workbench which makes it hard to lose a part by dropping. Launching is another matter. A photography light box would be good for that part of it.
For this part my first thought, like others, was sinker EDM, I was also thinking laser drilling as they get real small with that.
Then I thought about micro laser sintering. They are making amazing micro sized parts. Head of a pin sized stuff.
Of course, costs and availability. Depends on how many you need to make and what they're worth.
I've worked with screws the size of your part, restoring turn of the century pocket watches (19th-20th century), hard to fathom they made them way back then. Watchmaker tools are what would help if you're going to pursue small parts. Bergeon is the ubiquitous top brand, but very pricey. Horotec also top quality. The watchmaker putty you mentioned is Rodico (brand name)...infinitely useful for picking up the tinies, or storing and keeping track of things. I've pinged more than I want to remember into the 4th dimension.
Just curious - approximately what kind of ballpark is the cost for a custom micro-machining job like this in? $500-ish? $2000-ish? $10000-ish?
This was two separate Xometry jobs. They totaled to about $1400 for 20 parts. I am fine with a lower rate on xometry work, since I don't have to waste time on quoting, sales, invoicing, etc... so if I took this job outside of xometry it would probably be 50-100% more than that.
@@AudacityMicro Honestly that doesn't sound too bad. If you could get it, high speed steel tooling with conventional cutting only would have nailed this job in a day
@@AudacityMicro Man, I've used Xometry for a bunch of projects and always assumed it was just some giant shop filled with machines. Cool to see it isn't! Keep up the excellent work.
Absolutely love your videos! It’s wonderful and terrible at the same time that the roller coaster ride of everyday job shop life has enough drama baked into it that there is no need to add any extra flair. I hope you keep us posted on your journey, definitely can’t wait to see your channel and career take off in a good direction
Thank you! I'm glad you enjoy my pain and suffering 😂. Some day I'll actually be good at my job, and my videos will end up much more boring
I so downloaded this! It's going straight into my "So, do you recon you're a machinist yet Chook?" folder.
I've spent most of my life making stuff more in common with the work of Kurtis from CEE channel. But I'm only in my 60's so I still have time to give interesting new skills a shot.
Not long ago I managed to hand make a 0.3mm spade bit from a wire out of a stainless steel wire brush. But I suspect it drilled seriously oversize at that scale. Problem being, I have no way of measuring bores of that size.
Like you, measuring at that scale is the tricky bit of the job, especially at home
This is like a Joe Pie video on ultra-nightmare difficulty.😮
thank you for introducing me to another machining channel 😂. I had to google who joe pie was, and now I have one of his videos on
@@AudacityMicro Stefan Gotteswinter is another awesome guy.
I don't think you're allowed to call yourself a machinist these days if you don't know who joe pie is. Especially if you're working on teeny tiny stuff. Another essential is "edge precision". He doesn't do tiny stuff, but he does really intricate stuff on a huge scale!
@@AudacityMicro oh that's awesome that you get to discover him. His stuff is all manual machine work, but I'm sure you'll love it. He does some really wild stuff. Glad to have found your channel. I stumbled upon you yesterday.
Surely, you heard of clickspring and Chronova Engineering, right?
Insane work brother. I have a Bridgeport in my shop, and its tolerances are bigger than the total diameter of your finished piece. I can’t even imagine how precise you have to be to
Brings a whole new meaning to 'manufactured beach.'
As in a pile of sand-size pieces of metal?
"Let's make another one"....gets me every time
One thing that is often forgotten about when working with really REALLY small parts is good breath control. Your breathing out can actually blow away the part. I have experienced this with small SMD work.
Just imagine Watch makers they made smaller perfect parts a couple hundred years ago. And they did it mainly by hand. It’s crazy how these small parts are made. Great job though, I’d love to have a tiny machine shop lol
I did once make a Hub for a secondshand for a watch, ø0.8 x 1 mm, with a 0.25 mm hole in it.. I started by making the drill out of a piece of ø3 mm toolbit, Turned it down to 0.25mm at the tip, and 0.23 at the back for clearance , then filed 2 flats and the cutting edges with an arkansas oilstone, then turned the part out of brass, and that lathe only has a toolrest.. you hold the cutting tool by hand.. i then drilled it, and parted it off.. i used a piece of tube in the Tailstock, to hold my parting blade against, and also to catch the part .
and finally i put it in a small pen-like chuck to deburr the back of it...
yes.. it is crazy.. but so satisfying to pull it off..
Speaking for yourself. I would not find it satisfying. LoL
Usually, when having to handle small parts/components (0.05~0.2mm), I'll use some regular gift wrapping tape or putty. Excellent job and extremely respectable that you won't accept anything but what the client ordered in spec. Wish you well!
I make some parts that I thought were small, but they are massive compared with those. The smallest holes are 0.3 mm and some have waveguide holes around 0.8 mm diameter, with the parts being well over 1.8 mm diameter, with some 0.2 mm wide grooves. Fixturing and handling are key. I use a lot of of my father's old watchmaking equipment and some Xebec alumina fibre deburring tools, plus the electronics tools I use for 0402 and 0201 sized chip components, with a binocular microscope and velvet-faced boards to catch stray parts. An 0201 is 0.6 mm long by 0.3 mm wide and tall. I sharpen my carbon steel Dumont tweezers on a fine stone under a microscope to get the tip shape perfect (the parts are non-magnetic, otherwise I use titanium or stainless tweezers or a vacuum pencil). Keep up the great work.
I was going to ask what frequency you were working at that the waveguide is 0.8mm dia, but then I saw who you were! You haven't made a video in a long time - it was just a couple days ago that I checked if I was still subscribed to your channel I hadn't seen a video in so long! I also really wish you could bring back "Old Amy" - old Amy was... [chef's kiss]. New Amy's voice creeps me out!
@@gorak9000 275 GHz... I'm trying to recruit a live-action Aimee instead of relying on Google TTS. I've done a complete shop rebuild and bought a new SYIL X5 CNC mill that weighs two tons. I've been working on some long term projects and sponsored stuff, should be back making videos next week
That makes me think. There are very few reasons why you'd want a hold that small. To guide light... to guide RF... hmm...
An old model building trick I learned was to do finish work on super tiny parts inside a gallon plastic bag. That way if you dropped it or squeezed to hard and it shot out of the tool holding it it couldn't go far and 99% time it would still be in the bag. Doing what you do I am sure you could come up with a perfectly suitable clear box with slightly more room and less flexible that a bag. to minimize loss of tiny thingz
That was pretty interesting. Where I work we have a slew of Levin jewelers lathes, our techs make parts ranging from 30 to 7 microns in diameter, all by hand. I have a ton of respect for those people!
That's crazy!
I did make an error. . . Mils not microns. still very tiny. The 7 mil part we have to glue inside hypodermic needle wire to machine. @@AudacityMicro
Do you work on missile guidance systems?
@@_GOD_HAND_ Nope. But I'll bet money our products are used in the development and/or production of such things. We make cathodes (electron emitters) for scanning electron microscopes, and metal 3D printing applications.
Coming from the electronics world, where I deal with 0402 resistors regularly (40 thou by 20 thou rectangles) and occasionally with 0201s (20x10 thou), I've certainly lost plenty of parts. It doesn't help that they're black epoxy with tin tips, they look like dust! A decent *binocular* microscope with a good working distance is essential, I've got a 7-45x with a 0.7x barlow lens & ring light to get about 100mm (4") working distance. It's essential. Also a set of electronics tweezers, they come with some very small sharp ones.
Another workholding tool I've got is a wax setting pencil. They're used in applying rhinestones when decorating painted fingernails. I use them to get tiny parts off of the table if I need to, and then transfer them to tweezers for soldering. Push the wax tip down onto the part, lift off the table, grab part with tweezers. May not work for machined parts (wax residue), for my use that just melts off & gets cleaned up with the flux.
Dude you’re super cool. I know nothing about this subject but you make the video nice and easy to follow. Also for some reason I only knew haas as an f1 team never knew they made machines. Super cool video all around👍👍👍.
Jewelers will sometimes use an apron that attaches to the workbench to prevent any errant parts from falling.
Getting a lunch tray and working on that might also be a good idea.
As far as tweezers go, Erem makes some for surface mount components that are very fine. I was able to use them to handle 0402 resistors (0.040" x 0.020") and manually solder them.
You need to find and old school fiberglass lunch tray - all the new plastic ones warp and don't sit flat, and are probably worse to work on than a bare table.
That is incredible. Now I want to make some super small stuff.
Yeah, with real small holes, like 2-3mm or 1/16" and smaller, spot drilling w a ball mill does weird stuff, and the bit can wander in the "bowl" and yeah, faster speeds, slower feeds makes a cleaner finish (generally)
This was impressive to watch. Never messed around w machining anything that small. Crazy impressive what modern precision equipment can manage..
Youre doing good work, thanks for showing us the full process w mistakes and throwaways included to work through the full thought process
a simple cheap solution just to get you started is to hold onto old pill bottles. Theyre great for holding onto small parts/screws/etc and you can just slap a piece of masking tape on em, label the project the parts are from, slap a lid on and set it in a drawer or on a bench..
The couple of things I would have tried besides reversing the cutting to flex the bur is to a) once everything else is machined, run the drills back though the holes again to help clear them out of burs and any swarf before using the guage pin for final clearing (actually, I would do this twice: clear, blow off the part, and clear again, then remove the part with the slitting saw). b) try using a weak magnet to hold the parts, or machine the jig out of a magnetic material and pop a strong magnet on the end to see if it will hold the part in the gig (might not work on some materials - you mentioned stainless and mild steel). c) try using magnetic tipped tweezers.
Others have mentioned EDM. You might be able to build/set-up a simple EDM guillotine - where you machine the parts longer, and then chop the parts off the machined stock. If you used a collet block you can take out of the mill, then you can use the collet block's side to index the part for the removal operation. If that worked out, then you may also be able to make multiple parts on the stock before parting them, then using a coffee filter to wash and collect the parts.
You also mention wanting/needing optical inspection tools. There are some tricks I have seen people do with using a zoom lens on a camera, and setting up a digital camera rig so that you can pull measurements off of the image. Take a look at HackaDay's posts on shop built digital inspection cameras (like: hackaday.com/tag/pcb-inspection/ and hackaday.com/2016/08/26/shop-built-inspection-camera-lends-optical-help-on-a-budget/ for inspiration, but with a little planning you should be able to build something considerably more precise). If you are interested, reach out to me off-list, and I will see if I can help you with the image processing and trouble shooting. As a note, I currently make my living as a data/image scientist, but I apprenticed with a tool and die man back in my 20's, so I feel your pain - and I remember the first time I was given a part with tolerances +0.0002/-0.0000...
To follow up on what I meant by an EDM guillotine, take a look at Jeri Ellsworth's EDM built out of an old door bell < th-cam.com/video/uUN4_-xp1Wc/w-d-xo.html > Instead of using a linear mechanism, make a rotating lever-arm on a decent precision bearing that you can submerse in water or cutting fluid. When the cutting wire touches the part and makes an electrical connection, the solenoid retracts it. With a good bearing it should be easy to set up, but getting it aligned with less than a thou might be a bit of a chore. That said, if I were making it, I would set it all up and try to machine a slot or grove for the wire after the bearing was set in place and the arm mounted...
I know this comment will probably be lost because I'm late to the party but on the off chance you find it: watchmaker here, small parts things. Eye loupe is silly but effective. Those green matts for your bench are cheap, but make finding steel/brass things on them super easy. Print yourself some compartment trays for your gage pins and parts. (Starrett) Pin vises are a lifesaver. Get a pair of cheap brass tweezers and hand sand them to be sharp and meet flush. And the biggest tip of all: get a low stool so that your bench is at like chest height, and work way away from the edge of it: not only will you be more sure handed but like 50% of the time when you launch a part out of your tweezers it will bounce off your shirt and right back on to your working mat
This was an awesome video and an immediate sub for me, thanks dude!!
Don't worry! I saw it! I'll definitely look into those green mats, and look for some brass tweezers. thanks!
This is kind of random, but in the beading/rhinestoning world we use something called a “crystal katana” which is a pen shaped tool with a waxy like tip so you can pick up very small beads and gemstones. Not totally sure it would work for your needs, but the tool is a great alternative for picking up small things that usually go flying when using tweezers.
You need to get an optical comparator to measure your parts quicker and easier. For those who don't know a comparator is like a projector housing with a measuring template on the screen that you project your part onto. This is a great way to measure accurately small parts, I wrote this before the end of your video where you referenced the need for one, so, kinda a waste of a comment, but at least your aware and the algorithm will still register the comment so there is that at least. Good video. You sure are a glutton for punishment taking on these micro parts. I'm going to start calling you the micro machine guy! Yay micro machines vroom vroom! LoL
Yeah! A comparator and toolmakers microscope are on my list! I haven't been doing this that long, and I'm still getting off the ground. I unfortunately don't have limitless cash to throw at the business, so I have to pick and choose what I invest in first. Up until last month or so, I was investing in a lot of the basics. More micrometers, gauge blocks, gauge pins, height gauge, all the normal shop stuff. Now that I have a little more breathing room, I can start looking at the more niche stuff.
You're gonna need to back fill those holes with something hard so you can machine the outside radius after you drill the holes. Then dissolve out the filler
I was so curious because I want to have a scaled down robot joint in my design. And I was shocked that you used a full size CNC machine to make this. You're real wizard!
To be fair, as far as "full sized" machines go, this one is rather small, and designed for this kind of work 🙂
I wasn't surprised a larger machine could make it. I was surprised he was running the water and not losing nano scale parts from that alone. 😆
I've been there with those burs and those climb cut and conventional milling tool paths with similar results and tool life. With the cad you can pick a spot for a plunge cut to cut the burs from the corners of the hole using a milling cutter bigger than the hole, this will lead to just the smallest of burs (on one side in the hole) that you can easily remove pushing the shank of a used drill through the hole.
This way you can ditch the conventional cutting and fine tune the finish cuts to get better tool life and repeatability. It's better to take two 0.02mm cuts than to cut 0.04 once and a spring cut on diameters that small, you'll never get a decent cut the second time and just quickly wear out the tool and get bigger burs as a result.
I've learned to just throw away small drills after the job is done to prevent a lot of frustration, micro drills that drilled anything tougher than aluminum are scrapped no matter how many holes they drilled. And yes getting a good center is a pain if you don't have the right tool, trust me... Just get the right kind of center with the correct top angle if you are doing small holes more than a few times so they don't wander off if you have to drill more than 3xD deep. It will save you a lot of headaches and sleep and help with your lead times.
EDM would be even better but only if you already have that, or if you make so many small parts that it would be wise to invest in it. Not accounting yet another learning curve...
This looks like a part I'd pick a tornos or other swiss type lathe to make instead of a haas, though seeing that you can do it on a big mill is interesting.
To be fair, it's a very small Haas 😅
I would love Swiss lathe, it's definitely on my wish list. But right now all I have is a mill, so that's what my parts get made on.
Cool project! I recommend using lunch trays when you're working with small or tiny parts. They always stay in the tray and don't fall off the table.
If you're making small parts:
1) Vacuum all inspection surfaces and the surrounding floor.
2) When you lose the part, take your vacuum cleaner, get a pair of 40 denier black tights, cut off an end and stretch it over the the vacuum cleaner nozzle (use a round nozzle). Secure the sock with tape making sure the sock is tightly stretched over the end of the nozzle. Now vacuum around the area you suspect the part may be in. Periodically inspect the end of the vacuum cleaner nozzle to see if your part has turned up. If it hasn't, expand the search area. It WILL turn up.
BTW, I'd turn the outer dia's on a watchmakers lathe before drilling. That way the ODs are clean. Maybe follow up the drilling op with a mill to clean the burrs off the holes. Then, back in the lathe, clean the front face, set in a dop with shellac (not wax!), part with a saw, flip the dop, clean the back face. Remove from dop. That way parallelism is guaranteed and you have complete control of part height.
What is a dop ? I have searched the internet in vain. I do like your vacuum advice.
@@Hereford1642 A "dop stick" is essentially a thermoplastic glue set on a bolt.
You glue the part in place, do the front face ops, transfer to a "dop jig" that lets you glue the front face to another dop stick, heat the first dop to separate and now you've swapped end for end with zero loss of position in any axis.
If only it would work with parts larger than a couple of grams...
Here's a lady setting up a stone on a dop.
th-cam.com/video/0wSXIjznmlI/w-d-xo.html
And a dop transfer video:
th-cam.com/video/vnthnqykUu0/w-d-xo.html
@@evildrome Thank you.
Don't use carpet. Carpets eat parts.
Get a very bright flashlight. When you shine it across the desk or floor, you can see every piece of dust. You have to get your head pretty close to the surface.
Get a strong magnet. If the part is ferrous, you may be able run the magnet across the surface in a grid pattern. The part may be picked up.
In some cases a vacuum may work. Trying to find a part in a filter may be more difficult than it's worth.
If you have access to liquid nitrogen, pour it on the floor in one direction. This is lots of fun even if you don't find the part.
First timer here, Very interesting !
Was wondering if that part could be set on a magnet to keep from loosing. Like the small rectangle, flexible refrigerator magnets. Not solving the tweezer shooting star problem, but maybe to hold it for microscopic and help measuring ?
I'm very impressed that it's even possible to make parts so tiny using such a comparatively huge machine. Quite a challenge, but at least most jobs you do from now on will seem really easy!
For TINY parts, you 100% need silicon tweezers, they prevent excessive force and have enough friction to hold tiny pieces with enough padding and flex to hold it securely.
I was looking at making a replacement gear for the autofocus inside one of my zoom lenses. This makes that job look like building the Brooklyn Bridge. I'm wondering if your Haas can even get that small a tool up to the correct SFM cutting speed. That's gotta be, like 30,000 RPM. I was looking around, and ER16 & ER11 collets actually come in 1mm size.
I can do 40K RPM, which so far has been good enough for most stuff I run across 🙂
If you're dropping parts from pliers you might consider investing in some rubber tipped reverse action (closed at rest) forceps/tweezers. I don't do machining but I do build minis and those things are a godsend for handling tiny and/or delicate parts.
"But you've hardly used any material - why you charging us so much?!"
Lol, exactly.
Small piece of advice from someone who does hobby watch repair and owns a 3D printer, spend a little time making a custom tool holder / work piece holder that is specific to your needs that you can print, it makes keeping track of everything infinitely easier
I don't know why I have spent 25 minutes on this video, but it was incredibly interesting.
I have absolutely nothing to use that knowledge for, but I will definitely be watching more of your videos. 😁
I'm glad you enjoyed!
Use a green watch repair work mat. Specifically made for seeing small parts and many of their containers would work well.
I worked for Swiss automatic Screw Machines when I was young. I loved working on stuff the you could barely see the details on the parts. Optical comparators were used to examine the parts before sending the parts out.
an optical comparator will almost certainly be my next major shop purchase :)
I dropped it! Let's make another one!!! LOLOLOLOL. Great video. Absolutely subscribed.
🙂
I 💚 the image of honest Abe huffing your micro widget!!! 😂
I'm taking it as a harbinger of the glorious future of American fabrication.⚡️🛸🎼🎵🎶
I never made a part that small but if reduce the flow of the water and not hit it directly on the part it will help
"I dropped it again." got my like.
You have NO IDEA how many of these parts are still on my floor 😂.
To help with not losing so many small parts (ferrous ones anyways) I would have strategically placed magnets around the shop. So any place where the magnets would not be a problem but where you are likely to drop a part.
Absolutely amazing that "parts" are that small and machined for some type usage. I wouldn't even know where to start to make such microscopic parts. Glad you are doing this and not me. And you seem to like doing such things as well... I guess when you clean up the shop, you have to carefully look at each particle to see it you are throwing away some useful part. Thumbs Up!
My business strategy to was to make the parts that no one else could/wanted to make. It lets me take a higher margin than most shops can manage.
Putting an edge on the table for things to roll into instead of just rolling off the desk might help improve your recovery rate for small parts.
Someone get this guy a kern
I am accepting Kern donations, just in case anyone is curious 😅
the watchmaker's putty is " Bergeon 6033 Rodico", you'll also want a pin vise to hold the part like your little fixture pocket. look up micromark, they specialize in tooling for Scale Miniatures such as model trains, which get into some absurdly small sizes of components and the tooling for them. someone else mentioned jeweler's tooling. a Bead Tweezer with its cup jaws would help keep parts from going PTCHOO
12:56 As a freelance video editor, I'm thoroughly impressed by the quality of the edge of the blur mask in this section 😅
Don't worry, I cheated 😅. My video editing software has a great AI tool for it. You just kinda paint the section you want to mask, and it does the rest. It tracks it through the whole clip and everything
Woods metal can be used to support interrupted cuts and hold small parts, reducing the need for tabs.
A quick bath in hot water removes the Woods metal.
Too much surface tension for it to get down the tiny holes 🫤
I've been thinking about this video since yesterday, I just can't think of anything that needs such a small part.
Impressive that you can do it. 👌
The parts are going to a medical company. I suspect they are used in some sort of surgical instrument prototype. They didn't have the cleaning requirements that are normally involved in something that's actually going to get used on a person, so it's probably R&D or a prototype.
Remember when I was in school in the beginning of the 90’s, doing work practice at Siemens making parts for pacemakers. Insanely small parts, and made of nylon. Those CNC multiops was fantastic already then. The work mostly was control measuring every 10th part.
You gave me nightmares, my hats off to you bud, smart and chill, HELL YEAA
Great video, first time visitor to your channel. I have just started working with what I consider to be very small SMD LED's but the parts you are making make the LED's seem like a house brick. The 1206 SMD LED's are 3.2mm x 1.6mm and they have been a challenge so I can only imagine the challenge you have overcome. Well done and keep up the great work.
Great work. Keep up the perseverance! Also, eye pro? Could be a good idea? I'm a safety nut so ignore me as needed lol. Keep the chips flying!
I'm wondering if the coolant being pumped out that fast will cause similar issues. Perhaps putting too much lateral pressure on the tiny drill bits.
I have to solder tiny components on mainboards that you can barely see with the naked eye. Everything is done with a microscope. The tiny stuff is fun to work with.
5:15 same
but in terms of ipads. Ordered an ipad pro 2015 12.9, i ofcourse knew that it was 12.9 inches, but I was absolutely stunned by just how big it actually felt in person. If you look at online pictures and such it feels so differently
Reminds me of a guy who used to make phono cartridges for record playback, the Styluses are tinny little things that are ground to size and shape.
You need a sheet of felt or something, also a box with a super shallow edge all around it to keep things inside it
Just out of curiosity, what would a part like that cost the customer?
I know all about losing gage pins.
I dropped one in the chip pan and figured it was gone forever.
The shop hand chipped my machine out and low and behold when I walked past the chip dumpster there it was...right on the top of the chip pile.
Wish we could see the real part. I think it’s lame when companies don’t want you to show anything. Bummer
What is this a revolver for ants?! Gonna need yourself a full horologist's setup to handle these tiny things.
I'm surprised that coolant jet didn't cause cutter deflection
Great video with great, not over the top editing!
Will lookout for more content from you!
Glad you enjoyed!
Make sure you pick your little girl up and give her hugs before you know it they get so big you can’t even pick em up
Work on a smooth white surface, and hang up a curtain to catch most of the ones that go flying and drop them back onto the white surface where you can find them.