You just had to say it lol. I have not played it in over a year. Im alot better at painting now because I havent gamed in months lol. Great game though well said lol PS No need to slave away for the emperor. You made a good choice lol
A cheater is a cheater but the problem here is actually the TO. How can you allow someone to play without their book and tge extra rules for the forgeworld stuff? The TO was actually helping is buddy out or he wasn’t fit to run a tournament
Maybe he couldnt check at the game they played aganist each other, and the to didnt wanted to say that yeah I should have check that I was wrong e.t.c.
@@szabolcsszigetvari2631 also it was stated in the video that this guy was well known within the community, and it can be hella uncomfortable to have to call out one of your friends in wrongdoing. the TO still shout have done so though.
I always though the general rule was: You don't have your book to prove it, then you are automatically wrong. This TO should be ashamed of himself, no matter if it was on purpouse or by accident
I don’t get that, I wouldn’t allow myself to participate in a event I organized for prizes and I would recuse myself against judging if I had friends in it.
I'm at 19:00 and... That TO should have ruled "you don't have the rules to play your army, you're disqualified." What tournament doesn't require you to have the rules you intend to use? STRICTLY TO AVOID THIS SITUATION!
I am amazed also, tourneys i have attened require you to have codex ex, a printed list to show opponent before start if they wish etc but this story is from 8:th edition so i guess things evolved i did not start playing until 9:th at the noble age of 42.
@@nukkinfuts6550 nah thats been a thing since I started playing the game in 3rd edition. How he didn't tell the TO off right then and there is beyond me.
Who in the FUCK doesn't bring their fucking army's Codex with them when they play? Even guys I know who've played 10 years bring it. That alone is SUSSY. Bro you making this shit up as you go? It was probably Bill Belichick of the New England Patriots in a mask 😂
The thing that kills me in this is that every event I’ve been to has had a standing rule that if you don’t have your rules with you then the person that challenges you on your rules wins the argument. So not bringing your stuff is super risky
The only Dark eldar player in our meta played 500 pts up for years and was not found out until another player picked up the faction and realized he always had way more venoms and raiders then you could fit into a list
The level of toxic nonsense that exists in 40k, particularly among its older players, is truly stunning. Back in 3rd or 4th edition, whenever the chaos daemons army became its own thing, I had a purely daemons of Slaanesh army. It was mostly daemonettes, the old Juan Diaz sculpts, and I was pretty young at the time. Maybe 15 or 16. One day that is seared into my brain is when I was playing a game against an older guy and his eldar, I don't know how old but at the time I'd say he was late 30s or early 40s. I don't remember exactly what led to this point but he was getting annoyed at me and frustrated with the game, so he screams at me (reminder I'm at most 16 here) "well obviously you're only into this game cos your slutty and trying to attract guys, look at your army" Yes, the daemonettes at the time were extra boobylicious, but I liked them cos they looked like dancers to me. I'm kinda just stammering cos, ya know, I'm a teenager being yelled at by a man who's much bigger and older than me, and it takes the owner of the shop coming over and telling the guy to leave for me to gather myself. I ended up leaving the game soon after that until I came back in late 8th ed, and while there's still some eijits who'll make "lol gurl in Warhammer" jokes thankfully I haven't had anything like that old prick since then 😂
Serius a adult of that age react that way to a starting player? Yes as a student i was a mean player to starters. Mostly because i want to try my tournement list. And with no real players it was ( at that time) atleast a little fun. But now as a adult i understand how wrong that was. Not only that i was mean to younger children. But wrong for the hobby, this kind of bad situations can distroy the complete hobby for starting players. As adult i take a the time i have to explain the game to starters, even on a tournement.
The Tau is immunized against all dangers: One may call him a scoundrel, cheater, power gamer, sore loser, it all runs off him like water off a raincoat. But call him a Tau player and you will be astonished at how he recoils, how injured he is, how he suddenly shrinks back: "I’ve been found out".
@@petrsukenik9266 lol what? You okay bro? This is a quote about the Eternal Tau. And Mordian Glory liked it. He has good taste. Please don't bring politics into the conversation.
35 minutes into the video. At this point, if I'd been in your position Mordian. I'd have given a Sergeants shout for everyone in the tournament to give me a Taxi Codex and Forge World Index and make the lying cheating &£#@ face the TO's that he's been cheating all this time. I have to say. The standards at the Tournament sound shite.
Ha yeah I was gonna say I'd be like OI ANYONE GOT A TAU CODEX LYING ABOUT MY OPPONENT CAN'T AFFORD ONE Although to be fair this is a really good reason GW should just make access to all codices in their app a part of a WH+ subscription. If they did it right users could literally share all their lists and if they baked in some offline access you could download your opponents list before the event or hell TO's could even upload em all to an event page in advance.
Except in the civilian world when ex military people try to act like they’re still in the service on active duty, they sound like try hard dbags that everyone does and should laugh at
@@captainomoplata643 I think by sergeant's shout he just means a loud shout that gets people's attention - like when you say "a policeman's knock" meaning knocking very loud on a door.
@@MrMyers758 they're very short sighted in that case because clearly having more people engage with the hobby and having access to multiple army codices would result in more sales long-term.
This story literaly stressed me out so much... the moment he said there actuly was a fire warrior behind the wall, i would of just packed up my models and walked away. but very impressed at how you kept your cool. tho i bet you imagined just fixing some bayonetts and charging that bastard right across the table... TRUE GLORY FOR THE GUARD!
A cheater who used to attend my club had 3 lots of dice he used to roll -1set rolled 1, one standard set, 1 set rolled 6s. He would always pull out enough 6s or 1s to fix almost any result he wanted. The dice were identical, he kept the dice in a tray with 3 rows. We caught on quickly to what he was doing.
Bill is the kind of player, that clumsy "accidents" happen to their expensive FW models. This is why I always had a digital copy of all the codexs on my phone.
As someone who likes the T'au models and lore (although I can't afford to collect them in addition to my other armies), it's always sad to hear about all the dirtbags and cheaters the army seems to attract. That guy was the most deranged one I've heard yet. You have the patience of a saint, I'd have forfeited on the spot and called out the TOs publically.
Mordian Glory: Trying Hard with my lore and fluff - writing pages of notes and naming all my models! Play by the spirit of the rules - never cheat! That's a Skill Issue Man: Crossbow go BRRRRR
I've only recently started my 40k journey and have started following Mordian Glory, but if I can say anything about this guy, it's that he is a gentleman, and that certainly carries over into how he plays 40k - very skilled but endearing enough to not make this hobby appear intimidating to newbies. Keep it up dude, it appears I'm learning just as much about 40k etiquette as well as tactics!
By his logic then it would have been fine for his next opponent to have broken both his arms before any dice were rolled as a form of preemptive strike.
I had a similar experience with a Chaos player who had this delusion that a Chaos FW Demon should have the ability to do everything on the data sheet despite the 'OR' listed there, and ignoring all the general rules of the game. I just finished the game and refused to play with him ever again.
Amazing story! Apparently Bill had written a guest editorial on Frontline Gaming back in 2018 about Tau tactics. Its a shame to know people were taking advice from a supposedly 'top player'. It's like when spongebob was using anchor arms to impress people, lmao
Didn't think this would be worth 54 minutes of my time. It was and I was wrong. I'm really impressed that you managed to keep your temper during the game.
You handled that well, I think I remember that old video. When I suspect BS like that I call it out once politely, the 2nd time friendly but loud enough for a witness to hear, after that I just laugh every time they do it, and just start messing around because the game is no longer serious, I'll make pew pew noises, roll each die dramatically and make jokes until they either course correct or the match is over. If they won't follow the few rules, then to me it's just a relaxing match, and I make a farce of it.
Is this the same Will Betts from Scotland who was jailed in 2005 for sex attacks against a 13 and a 14 year old girl, and AGAIN in 2009 for attacking two more girls? If so, report the threat to the police! Threats to kill are illegal in the UK and judges can award perpetrators up to 10 years in prison for even just the emotional harm they cause, and implicit threats meet the threshold. There is also no statute of limitations for any crime in the UK, meaning you can still report this to the police today even though it happened years ago. The evidence is immortalised in digital form. Also worth pointing out that the online abuse he sent you might constitute a second crime and, potentially, a breach of his license (meaning he could be subject to recall to prison). Making a report is very straightforward and this is clearly a dangerous man who is known to police so it seems to be in the public interest.
"These are my special forgeworld las guns. They're STR 10 and AP -10. Nah, I can't check. Also, these are special forgeworld infantry. They save on 1+ and reroll fails. 2+ invuln."
I had someone pull that same fast dice rolling shinnanigans in a fantasy game back in the day. I had a Dogs of War army going against an optimized demon Khorne list. I had to step away and complain to the head organizer at one point. I barely lost. I did get second place and the "sportsmanship" award (probably a consolation from the organizer). So frustrating. I never played in a tournament again and just stuck to playing with my friends.
Unfortunately, I do have a similar story, maybe he was Bill's distant cousin or something. 😅 So, to set the stage, before we even get to the game itself. I'm taking part in my first 40k league ever and the first time I've played anything near officially in a decade, so a beginners league felt like a great way to get my feet wet again. We have to organize our games ourselves over the course of two weeks and my opponent had missed out game day that we'd agreed on, just ghosting me for a reason he'd never explained. I still wanted to play the game though and not just get a free win so I talked to the organizer and had him give us a two day extension to get our match played, which we were finally able to arrange on the last day. It's 9th edition, but I'm playing a Kroot heavy 1500pt army (backed by a couple Ethereals a Crisis Commander and two Breacher Squads) and still on the 8th edition codex at this point. We're playing a casual Slow Grow League, so Legends models are allowed and I've brought in my Knarloc Riders and Great Knarlocs to the fight to back up my waves of Carnivores. I'm playing against Sisters of Battle and we get to chatting he mentioned that he was looking forward to playing against me since he'd seen my Kroot army in a previous round of the tournament and that got us talking about the game's we'd previously played. He was bragging about how he'd taking down this meta dread knight list and how great miracle dice we're with meltas. So I say that he might be at a bit of a disadvantage because I'm mostly infantry. This was the first time I noticed something, we'd been talking pretty casually so far, but he clammed right up when I said that and just got to work taking out his army. Where he had talked up his many meltas, there was now not a melta to be seen, but instead an ocean of bolters and flamers, some on a unit of Seraphim, backed by a few penitent engines, an Eversor Assasin, and Morvenn Vahl. See, this league didn't require you to submit lists ahead of time because it was for newer players that were still figuring out there army, so they were freely allowed to swap out a unit or two if they didn't' like how they were feeling during the league. It was pretty clear what was going on, but much like our good Mordian Glory, I kinda took it as a challenge, I'd been doing really well and was so far undefeated in after 4 rounds, so I kinda wanted to test my army's limits. So, deployment goes okay, nothing too crazy, I use my pregame move to advance most of my force up the board. Things start out on his turn 1 with him trying to Deep Strike his Seraphim. I call him out on that and he tries to claim that since it's casual we can do that. I explain that we're still playing with matched play rules, so that's a no go, and he lets it go reasonably easily. He then tried to full rapid fire his sisters bolters twice on the full range, saying that that's how rapid fire works... obviously a dumb tactic as my army was full of Rapid Fire weapons so I called him out on that. He then claimed it was a unique Sisters thing like with Space Marines, so I asked him to check his codex to show me. Unlike Bill, he'd actually brought his codex, and rather than even pretending to check and be wrong, he just says "oh yeah, maybe you are right" and moves on. Not too much damage to me turn one since most of his stuff was out of rapid fire range and I move up really aggressively and pepper his army with small arms fire taking out a fair few sisters. He also forgets his 5+ FNP's multiple times on his Penitent Engines multiple times of which I remind him, thus saving about half the wounds I inflict because I don't like to win because of a missed rule. However, because of my pregame move I'm now contesting all the midfield objectives and have brought my crisis commander out of Deep Strike to cut up a tiny unit of two crusaders on the flank with his fusion blades taking another objective. On his turn two things are more in the swing and he's removing a lot of models, but I notice that he seems to be rolling dice and quickly grabbing them every time I look away for a moment, so I've got to keep my eye on that now. He does decent damage to a bunch of units and though I still hold 3/6 objectives and he only has 1, I've suffered a lot of casualties. However the scoring on this one is 2/3/more so he'll get no VP on primaries if he can't clear me off one of them. However, I'm only on 3 objectives now, not 5 as I've been shot off two. After everything there is one solitary Kroot left on the only objective he could contest and the Eversor on it is not Obsec. Making it either 3/1 in my favour or 2/2; a min 10, possibly 15 point swing. So here is where things get crazy. I start rolling my Ld checks of which I have many, and I'm trying to go quickly because we've taken a long time getting even this far with rules checks and debates. So I roll, and roll, and roll, and as I cast the last dice, still in mid-air I say, "wait I auto pass him" for the lone Kroot on the objective. The dice comes to a stop behind a piece of terrain I can't see and then he says "nah man, you already rolled it." When I check, it is of course a fail. Now in a normal game, I'd just say whatever and take the loss, but he'd been really getting under my skin at this point and I was done with it, so after fruitlessly trying to talk things through for a few minutes I called the TO over. We go over everything that happened and the TO rules in my favour, I'm allowed to use the strat to auto pass. The dude goes ballistic, yelling at the TO and saying all kinds of colourful things. Now, this TO is essentially just a store employee and is really overwhelmed with all this so he kinda walks back his decision. He says that in the printed GW rules, if two players can't agree, they roll off and whomever wins uses their interpretation. I sigh, but am well aware of the rule and reluctantly agree, while my opponent does so whole heartedly. The TO picks up a die, says 1-3 is him and 4-6 is me and tosses it. The die lands on a 4 and the guy blows his top. Accuses me of cheating, being a win at all costs tryhard, ruining the hobby for anyone I play against, you know, just projecting and all that, before asking if this is really how I want to win the game. I point out that the game is hardly over, if anything it's pretty even since it's only turn two and while I'm way up on VP, he's way up on models. He then says "well I refuse to play with someone who only cares about winning." scoops up his models and storms out of the store. Afterwards the TO askes me for more information and I relay the rest of the story to him. He says that he's received similar complaints form all the guy's other opponents, and within a few days an announcement is made that he's been kicked out of the league and also banned from the store. Of course it doesn't end there though as just like Bill he couldn't let go and stared angry PM'ing me on Facebook before I'd even made it home. I was done with his BS at that point though so I just blocked him. Now that I'm more of a member of my local community, I've since discovered that the guy is rather infamous for all these things and more, but he seems to have left the gaming on the south end and plays on the north side now, far away from anything I ever have to worry about, so all I ever do now is relay the story if his name ever comes up. So yeah, that's my story, he was kind of a Bill light, the bastard's little cousin so to speak.
@@custarddemustard2769 Okay, then don't. Though if you just watched a 50 min video about a similar story, I don't know why a few paragraphs of text is such a turn off.
Just had a 1000pt game a couple weeks ago with my Votann. Im pretty new to Warhammer only about a year. But I've been running a escalating crusade and so i was playing a game with one of our players at our local store. Basically what happened was we were supposed to be having the store manager run it, he had surgery so he couldn't and suggested that I run it since I was interested. The game we were running was a custom game using the Arks detachment and points instead of power level. Im using a custom league centered around beam weapons just trying to play for fun not trying to destroy people. Ive already let everyone know I can't win any of the trophies at the end of the Crusade since im the organizer. This player is known for throwing a fit at the store and storming off, shes already done it once during the Crusade. We get to playing the custom tug of war scenario with hidden deployment rules. Things that the players have voted on. We discuss and agree on what terrain rules are what. She goes first, white scars. Doesn't do much. First turn i wipe out both of her bike squad's and she starts complaining endlessly because one bit of terrain we had just both agreed was dense cover she thought one particular spot had obscuring cover... Even though i explained earlier that i had set up the board to be a mirror to make everything as balanced as possible. We're playing in a GW store so we dont exactly have the perfect terrain to play it how it looks... So i start conceding points to her. "Ok no you can't reroll wound rolls against Votann but since you didn't know that ill let you and we'll just play forward with the rule." "Ok you just sank two melta shots into my Sagitaur and it lives on one hp. Ok... You're going to reroll that...so same rule you cant" she proceeds to give me a death glare " ok fine you can do it since you didn't know" blows up my Sagitaur which explodes dealing 3 wounds to 2 other units. Ok cool i play the rest of the game well and shes boxed into a corner her apothecary exposed and im able to line up two pioneer bikes with beam guns across all three units. I explain to her im trying to be nice and fair... She all but demands i give her back her bike squad i destroyed and that would be fair. No. At that moment i had 2 judgement tokens on her apothecary and 2 on the far unit with multi meltas... I decided to throw the game at that point to avoid making a scene and give her what she wants, but i will NEVER play her again. So Instead of firing both beam weapons into the unit with 2 judgement tokens, using the hunters mark strategem to auto hit one and the search light to give it the final judgement token guaranteeing its destruction, and it would also hit all of her other units. i instead sink all of my beam shots into her apothecary in the front. The rest of the shots from the two pioneer units sink their fire into the blade guard unit in the middle... With no judgement tokens... Of course where i could have killed everything i now only kill one blade guard model which the apothecary revives while healing itself to full. I stop using all my rules from here, i stop handing out judgement tokens i stop using strategems i could've used. From there she easily gets into melee. Kills one squad of pioneers. Kills my other Sagitaur with her multi melta unit i let live... Then she lines up two of her units up ...again. my whole army is built around beam weapons as a gag... So to drive the point home i parked my other squad of pioneers in front of them used hunters mark to auto hit with the beam weapon, just as a last dig. She almost throws a fit again.Finally I charge my Pioneers and the last of my Hearthkyn into the surviving bladeguard, after she kills both making it obvious she's won i concede... Worst most unfun game of Warhammer ive played. Will never play her again
I played a tournament in south Africa and the one guy conceded a match ,then his buddy told him a strategy that could win him the game ,then the guy said he wants to play the last turn even though his opponent is putting his guys away ,and a big argument involving like 10 blokes followed lol.
You really took the cake, there, with Bill the B******. I don't have a tale quite that egregious, but, way back in 2nd edition I played against a guy who tried my patience with his unreasonableness. There was a rule in the game where if a blast marker didn't completely cover a unit or model, it was affected by that blast weapon or affect on a 4+. The rule specifically dealt with partial coverage from a template scatter; back then blast weapons had templates, and you placed the template where you wanted, rolled the scatter dice, subtracted your ballistic skill, and if the template drifted and didn't completely cover the base or the hull of a model, you had to check for partial coverage. So I was playing Eldar, my unreasonable opponent was playing Imperial Guard, and I had a Swooping Hawk Exarch with, among other things, a Stasis Grenade. I swooped over to his one Leman Russ, tossed the grenade, rolled for scatter, and got a direct hit, no drift on the template. Well, this guy was proxying a Leman Russ with a plastic toy tank from the little green army men, and it was longer than a standard, GW-issue Leman Russ, as well as longer than the template was wide. He claimed that since the template didn't completely cover his model, it was only partially affected, and I would have to roll a 4+ to trap his tank in the stasis field. If I failed, by the rules he could move the unit outside the area of effect on a directing of his choosing. I didn't want to roll that die as 1) the rules were on my side, 2) I knew he was being a weasel, and 3) I have a 100% chance of blowing a 4+ roll when playing a Games Workshop game and the roll really counts, so I pointed out that the template didn't scatter so, regardless of the size of the template or his model, the stasis field fully affected his tank. He refused to accept. I pointed out that he wasn't even using a proper Leman Russ so his patrial coverage argument wasn't valid. He refused to accept. There was also a guideline in the 2nd. ed. rules where if two players had a disagreement, they should roll off to settle the question so the game could continue. I didn't want to make that roll, either, as I knew I would lose, but it was a casual game without a third party to arbitrate, so we rolled, I lost, and he rolled his tank completely outside the area of effect of the stasis grenade, into my lines, and shot my army to bits.
well, my friend, I did have a game in a Hall of Heroes tournament in Canada which almost ended my desire to play 40K. I too was a guard player, and I was matched against another guard player. To set the scene HALL OF HEROES was a tournament series that was designed to allow competitors from all across Canada to compete equally in tournaments by statistical comparison. The organization, scoring and scenarios were all the same so that if you played in a HoH tourney on the East coast you could compare your scores with any other members from anywhere in Canada. I believe that this was 4th or 5th edition at the time. My guard list comprised of a mechanized company with some Le man Russes and Sentinels. My opponent was running an armoured company with 4 Squadrons of tanks which at the time was declared an illegal list. During deployment he set up all his tanks on the back edge of his deployment zone. During the course of the game, he refused to move anything or fire any of his shots, all the while spending his time trash talking me and my son (also playing in this tournament) and making me feel like just wanting to pack it in and walk away. I talked with the T O s who confirmed that they would allow the Illegal list to stand, and so I played on, managing to kill a Chimera during the battle. This allowed me enough points to secure the win. I scored our battle with what I felt was an honest score for presentation, composition and sportsmanship. His attitude left me drained and had no desire to continue. However, lunch break was spent with some fellow players from my circle of friends who convinced me to continue.
I'd have thought it would be a rule that you have to turn up with the rules to support your army list. We had an issue just in normal "at home" games where one of the group bought a lot of guard units and said he was using the rules from white dwarf issue XX that said gave some guard units special melee abilities. We said "do you have that white dwarf issue with you" - he didn't, so he used the standard codex rules. Same happened when I wanted to pout Njarl Stormcaller in terminator armour. Codex had no rules for that (it wasn't listed in his wargear options), someone said they'd seen a white dwarf with the rules/points for that. Same thing, unless the rules can be verified, go with the codex. "We have some of your dice" - so he was saying he stole your stuff... The type of player that should be banned for life.
I played a guy who subsequently worked in the store at Warhammer World and even made it onto the recruitment website of GW. He had a loaded die. He had a load of different dice deliberately to mask his special loaded one and he pulled it out for his Vindicare Assassin.
Not really my toxic story, but a friend of mine got a tournament lineup rigged against her and her Drukhari to prevent her from having a really good shot at coming out in the top ranks.
I have only played a single wargame tournament in my life and it was not even 40k, but it absolutely baffles that you can play 40k and just tell the other guy your stat lines with no proof? No book or even battlescribe? Wild stuff
I love making my list off of lore, and it's always so much fun when it shatters a tourney list. Not because i wanna win but because it reassures you that there were some practical reasons in the lore why they designed the list, etc.
I have been playing 40k since the early days of 2nd edition. Only missing Rogue Trader days by a handful of years. in over 20 years of playing wargaming in GENERAL much less 40k and Fantasy, I have luckily never had the displeasure of playing against such a toxic person. The closest I've come to were the WAAC (Win At All Costs) players that DO use the rules in such a way to make the game completely unfun for casual players like myself. Sometimes they come off as a douche, but not much else. Jeez, what a story!
In my club we had a number of guys who cheated their arses off. They moved into another club when they all got booted. To them it wasn’t cheating but playing tactically different then you. One of the guys would bring 2 or 3 armies/lists to non tournament games in order to see what his opponent’s were playing then he would just bring out the best army to counter, pull the “oops, I’ve not got this codex but I’ve got this one, have his army box saying as such as D-eldar with wrong army foam trays inside after agreeing to play a certain army. Did this for years. Another guy used to pull all sorts of gimmicks to cheat. He altered his book (playing fantasy) to allow teclis to cast spells at different ranges to what he was allowed. This meant a touch spell became tabletop. Added fake FAQs to his books, played “forge world rules”, these were taken from fan sites and not legit. Rolled more dice, doing fast rolls out of sight, calling out the results Would add terrain or move it during the game. He would wear a bum bag and “accidentally” knock figures into it during matches. Plus other stuff. Another guy would roll dice, but say he rolled 20, 15 dices hit he would then roll all 20 again to wound.
This is why Ive got Scribd on my phone. Straight away if Im playing against someone and they've not got a codex/army book, its a red flag, but Scribd has PDF's of a lot of them.
It's easy enough for me to find scans of these codices. I don't play so would you be able to tell me whether or not it would be worth my time uploading the 9th edition codices to Lib Gen to make them more widely available or does it not matter anymore now that the 10th edition is about to drop?
@@jessl1934 I had issues finding PDF's pf the codices sadly, hence I used Scribd. But if you did upload them, Im sure a lot of people would appreciate it, myself included :)
@@SamPhillipsPT Okay, I went through and downloaded every codex I could find including the supplemental ones. I think I found every one of them. They've been uploaded to Lib Gen and they're in the fiction queue so they'll be available in the coming days once they clear the queue. It was a bit of work trying to find all of them. The Aeldari codex was nearly impossible to find - I had to navigate my way through signing up to a Russian document hosting website and I had to upload a file to it (which was harder than it sounds) before I could download the codex. Hopefully someone finds this useful.
That was the wildest, most infuriating 40k battle-cheater story that I've ever heard. I stuck around for the entire 54 minutes, just so I could find out what kind of reciprocity you unleashed upon him. I know that guy... not him personally, as I am from Michigan and have never been to the U.K., but I've played someone very like him back in the late 90's, or there-abouts. He was a Lizardman player named Chris, and every cheap rule he could exploit, every die-roll he could fast-time, he did. A friend of mine finally fixed him by using what was called "the collar of Zorga" or something similar, which basically gave him control over Chris's big lizards. Chris never played in our group again. Well-wishes and kind regards from an old Necromancer!✌🏻💀🤘🏻
I remember the original video you posted on incident. I thought it was awful then. Had no idea it got worse for you. Good job for sticking to your convictions
It's funny how he thought he could use his retired police officer father to try and incriminate you but he couldn't get him to prevent his 2 separate custodial sentences for r@p1ng 2 under age girls and a 25 year old woman... Pure scum!! How he is allowed to exist is beyond me...
At first I kinda felt bad for you..but after the literal social media ass whooping this guy took, I feel you won immensely!! Im sure the vindication felt amazing!!!
I wouldn’t even think of playing people that don’t have the respect of the game to bring the rules for their army. By all rights he shouldn’t have been allowed to play.
At this point I would've stopped and said get the book or fまck off. I faced a tau player who brought a taunar and kept walking the Relic through whole game with the lord of war I didn't know this was Illegal my buddy said how long has that Relic been with taunar. I told him he's walking Relic bro hooked me up and said taunar can't walk Relic. I won that game by one point...victory was sweet
This is probably the worst TO I've ever heard of. They allowed him to play without any books or references and the TO had a clear bias towards the Tau player and was just going "Well when I played against him thats what he said the rule was." Absolutely awful work by that TO and he sounds like he has no business running a tournament if thats how he deals with rulings
Having just been directed to this video by a friend, informing me that "Bill" was actually known to me, as i live in the frozen North of Scotland and the town where this tournament probably took place and had just moved here looking for gaming space after leaving my home town. Reading up about the guy and finding out his past outside of GW and informing my friend who was playing in the tournament, who found out the stuff i read as a surprise. Sadly meant i avoided this club and had very little gaming since then, but there's a good new scene at the expanded hobby store locally. If you still attend tournaments up here now "Bill" has been ostracised, say hello as ill sort you out with a pint at the local :)
No Codex? No Forge World data sheet. Reach across and shake his hand and record the win/forfeit for yourself and notify TO of your victory! (Especially for a 2-day GT!)
If I were a TO and a someone had the absolute balls to show up with TWO TIGER SHARKS and WITHOUT A CODEX or at least Datacards (or at THE VERY LEAST some actual way of checking their stats) then they'd better believe that EVERY rules query about their army that I don't know the actual answer to immediately is going in favour of their opponent.
People will do mad things for a plastic trophy. Have been accused (in the first American GT in 1997) of marking my deck of spell cards with my own blood (remember spell cards? From WHFB? You had to draw random ones before the game). Also of a host of other stuff. Good times.
The name of the event and the TOs that were there should be made public. If I was ever to go to an event with that level of toxicity in the TOs, I'd call them out hard.
I use to be a guardsmen like you. Until i took a arrow to the knee. 😁
Lol
Brilliant 👏
You just had to say it lol. I have not played it in over a year. Im alot better at painting now because I havent gamed in months lol. Great game though well said lol PS No need to slave away for the emperor. You made a good choice lol
Crossbow bolt* ;)
A cheater is a cheater but the problem here is actually the TO. How can you allow someone to play without their book and tge extra rules for the forgeworld stuff? The TO was actually helping is buddy out or he wasn’t fit to run a tournament
Yeah, TO was in on it, he knew EXACTLY what was going on, and was allowing it to happen.
Maybe he couldnt check at the game they played aganist each other, and the to didnt wanted to say that yeah I should have check that I was wrong e.t.c.
@@szabolcsszigetvari2631 also it was stated in the video that this guy was well known within the community, and it can be hella uncomfortable to have to call out one of your friends in wrongdoing. the TO still shout have done so though.
Really. Need the rule book or TO to actually check otherwise all my weapons hit on a 0+
I always though the general rule was:
You don't have your book to prove it, then you are automatically wrong.
This TO should be ashamed of himself, no matter if it was on purpouse or by accident
Both WIll Betts and his TO friend should be perma banned from officiating, playing in, or even attending all 40k events worldwide.
I don’t get that, I wouldn’t allow myself to participate in a event I organized for prizes and I would recuse myself against judging if I had friends in it.
Does he even still play? Anyone with even a little shame would quit entirely after this happened
Most likely he still does, perhaps under an alias? Psychopaths never quit, they simply change their handle/ID
Absolutely. That TO should never TO a game ever again.
@@RadioEnnui Anyone with even a little shame would not cheat so extensivly.
I'm at 19:00 and... That TO should have ruled "you don't have the rules to play your army, you're disqualified." What tournament doesn't require you to have the rules you intend to use? STRICTLY TO AVOID THIS SITUATION!
This guy became notorious for this amongst much worse things. He intential had what he did/didn't need.
I am amazed also, tourneys i have attened require you to have codex ex, a printed list to show opponent before start if they wish etc but this story is from 8:th edition so i guess things evolved i did not start playing until 9:th at the noble age of 42.
Probably had the rules in a bag in case it happened..
@@nukkinfuts6550 nah thats been a thing since I started playing the game in 3rd edition. How he didn't tell the TO off right then and there is beyond me.
Who in the FUCK doesn't bring their fucking army's Codex with them when they play?
Even guys I know who've played 10 years bring it. That alone is SUSSY. Bro you making this shit up as you go?
It was probably Bill Belichick of the New England Patriots in a mask 😂
Rather Frankish to threaten someone with a crossbow. A proper Englishman would have threatened assault with a longbow.
Or a short chamber Boxer Henry point 45, plus a bayonet with some guts behind it.
@@markdorn8873 I dare say, old boy.
>Not stripping naked, coating yourself in woad, and charging your rival, spear in hand, as they emerge for work
We need to ban assault knifes 🤣
A proper Englishman wouldn't have played Tau.
Threatening someone with a ranged weapon is the most tau thing he could do
The only astra militarum response should be a 5000 lasgun volley
The thing that kills me in this is that every event I’ve been to has had a standing rule that if you don’t have your rules with you then the person that challenges you on your rules wins the argument. So not bringing your stuff is super risky
Yeah that 100% how it should be. For casual games who cares too much. Jut for tournaments you should have your rules with you to check on anything.
The only Dark eldar player in our meta played 500 pts up for years and was not found out until another player picked up the faction and realized he always had way more venoms and raiders then you could fit into a list
The level of toxic nonsense that exists in 40k, particularly among its older players, is truly stunning. Back in 3rd or 4th edition, whenever the chaos daemons army became its own thing, I had a purely daemons of Slaanesh army. It was mostly daemonettes, the old Juan Diaz sculpts, and I was pretty young at the time. Maybe 15 or 16.
One day that is seared into my brain is when I was playing a game against an older guy and his eldar, I don't know how old but at the time I'd say he was late 30s or early 40s. I don't remember exactly what led to this point but he was getting annoyed at me and frustrated with the game, so he screams at me (reminder I'm at most 16 here) "well obviously you're only into this game cos your slutty and trying to attract guys, look at your army"
Yes, the daemonettes at the time were extra boobylicious, but I liked them cos they looked like dancers to me. I'm kinda just stammering cos, ya know, I'm a teenager being yelled at by a man who's much bigger and older than me, and it takes the owner of the shop coming over and telling the guy to leave for me to gather myself.
I ended up leaving the game soon after that until I came back in late 8th ed, and while there's still some eijits who'll make "lol gurl in Warhammer" jokes thankfully I haven't had anything like that old prick since then 😂
I made sure to 3D Print the biggest boobiest slaanesh demons of all sizes. they look great. The demons I mean.
The old sculpts were way prettier and sexier
Serius a adult of that age react that way to a starting player?
Yes as a student i was a mean player to starters. Mostly because i want to try my tournement list. And with no real players it was ( at that time) atleast a little fun.
But now as a adult i understand how wrong that was. Not only that i was mean to younger children. But wrong for the hobby, this kind of bad situations can distroy the complete hobby for starting players. As adult i take a the time i have to explain the game to starters, even on a tournement.
I might say vile heretic filth to your army lol but damn that's out of line
The Tau is immunized against all dangers: One may call him a scoundrel, cheater, power gamer, sore loser, it all runs off him like water off a raincoat. But call him a Tau player and you will be astonished at how he recoils, how injured he is, how he suddenly shrinks back: "I’ve been found out".
Hahahahahahaha
Based.
im not sure if i would want to use a nazi quote under video about toxic fans but ok
@@petrsukenik9266 lol what? You okay bro? This is a quote about the Eternal Tau. And Mordian Glory liked it. He has good taste. Please don't bring politics into the conversation.
@@howiefeltersnatch240 i mean, what you said is literal nazi quote changed for the situation LOL
Pointing it out is not "politics"
35 minutes into the video. At this point, if I'd been in your position Mordian. I'd have given a Sergeants shout for everyone in the tournament to give me a Taxi Codex and Forge World Index and make the lying cheating &£#@ face the TO's that he's been cheating all this time.
I have to say. The standards at the Tournament sound shite.
Ha yeah I was gonna say I'd be like OI ANYONE GOT A TAU CODEX LYING ABOUT MY OPPONENT CAN'T AFFORD ONE
Although to be fair this is a really good reason GW should just make access to all codices in their app a part of a WH+ subscription. If they did it right users could literally share all their lists and if they baked in some offline access you could download your opponents list before the event or hell TO's could even upload em all to an event page in advance.
Except in the civilian world when ex military people try to act like they’re still in the service on active duty, they sound like try hard dbags that everyone does and should laugh at
@@captainomoplata643 I think by sergeant's shout he just means a loud shout that gets people's attention - like when you say "a policeman's knock" meaning knocking very loud on a door.
@@sonicwingnut A really good reason for GW to do anything isn't a good reason to them if it costs them sales.
@@MrMyers758 they're very short sighted in that case because clearly having more people engage with the hobby and having access to multiple army codices would result in more sales long-term.
This story literaly stressed me out so much... the moment he said there actuly was a fire warrior behind the wall, i would of just packed up my models and walked away. but very impressed at how you kept your cool. tho i bet you imagined just fixing some bayonetts and charging that bastard right across the table... TRUE GLORY FOR THE GUARD!
I would have to leave as well, just be static going through my brain as I left
The "lucky dice" that not look like his other 50 i guess...
Yeah funny that!
Had a little mordian face on it.
A cheater who used to attend my club had 3 lots of dice he used to roll -1set rolled 1, one standard set, 1 set rolled 6s.
He would always pull out enough 6s or 1s to fix almost any result he wanted.
The dice were identical, he kept the dice in a tray with 3 rows. We caught on quickly to what he was doing.
Bill is the kind of player, that clumsy "accidents" happen to their expensive FW models. This is why I always had a digital copy of all the codexs on my phone.
Bill: *threatens with crossbow*
Me:(an American): heh heh, childs play
Lmao thats what i was thinkinkg. I was like “jee golly nothing like a good old hollow point with a bit of mercury at the tip”
@@billybob-zk9nm You gun fuckers do understand a crossbow bolt will kill you?
As someone who likes the T'au models and lore (although I can't afford to collect them in addition to my other armies), it's always sad to hear about all the dirtbags and cheaters the army seems to attract. That guy was the most deranged one I've heard yet. You have the patience of a saint, I'd have forfeited on the spot and called out the TOs publically.
Cause Tau are stupid crap in lore and cheaters in tournaments, thats why nobody likes them.
Guys so toxic nurgles jealous
Haha that made me chuckle
I was 40-something minutes into a story about a serial cheater and narcissist when I realized I hadn't even gotten to the crossbow yet...
This should be required viewing during GW manager trainings.
"... well, then, whatever, it's only a game of toy soldiers." Truly the wisdom of the very Emperor himself.
Mordian Glory: Trying Hard with my lore and fluff - writing pages of notes and naming all my models! Play by the spirit of the rules - never cheat!
That's a Skill Issue Man: Crossbow go BRRRRR
I do love me a good "and he could have gotten away scott free, if only he'd been able to hold his tongue" comeuppance story.
This is why you make it mandatory to have your rules on the tournament day, or to have access to those rules from a friend or something.
Its in the internet age all players have their rules on them unless they are bullshiting you
@@livanbard Then they should have no issue producing them when requested. If not, DQ on the spot.
I've only recently started my 40k journey and have started following Mordian Glory, but if I can say anything about this guy, it's that he is a gentleman, and that certainly carries over into how he plays 40k - very skilled but endearing enough to not make this hobby appear intimidating to newbies. Keep it up dude, it appears I'm learning just as much about 40k etiquette as well as tactics!
By his logic then it would have been fine for his next opponent to have broken both his arms before any dice were rolled as a form of preemptive strike.
I had a similar experience with a Chaos player who had this delusion that a Chaos FW Demon should have the ability to do everything on the data sheet despite the 'OR' listed there, and ignoring all the general rules of the game. I just finished the game and refused to play with him ever again.
Mordian sir, please make a blue skinned guardsman, in a red shirt. Call him William outa wedlock. Let him be the first casualty in every game.
Hahahaha! That’s such a great idea... first casualty in every battle is 👌
Amazing story! Apparently Bill had written a guest editorial on Frontline Gaming back in 2018 about Tau tactics. Its a shame to know people were taking advice from a supposedly 'top player'. It's like when spongebob was using anchor arms to impress people, lmao
Didn't think this would be worth 54 minutes of my time. It was and I was wrong. I'm really impressed that you managed to keep your temper during the game.
Grabs popcorn
Yeah, I remember the old upload of that video. Was a wild time
Phew, I'm not going mad thinking I've heard this story before 😅
You handled that well, I think I remember that old video. When I suspect BS like that I call it out once politely, the 2nd time friendly but loud enough for a witness to hear, after that I just laugh every time they do it, and just start messing around because the game is no longer serious, I'll make pew pew noises, roll each die dramatically and make jokes until they either course correct or the match is over. If they won't follow the few rules, then to me it's just a relaxing match, and I make a farce of it.
Is this the same Will Betts from Scotland who was jailed in 2005 for sex attacks against a 13 and a 14 year old girl, and AGAIN in 2009 for attacking two more girls? If so, report the threat to the police!
Threats to kill are illegal in the UK and judges can award perpetrators up to 10 years in prison for even just the emotional harm they cause, and implicit threats meet the threshold. There is also no statute of limitations for any crime in the UK, meaning you can still report this to the police today even though it happened years ago. The evidence is immortalised in digital form. Also worth pointing out that the online abuse he sent you might constitute a second crime and, potentially, a breach of his license (meaning he could be subject to recall to prison). Making a report is very straightforward and this is clearly a dangerous man who is known to police so it seems to be in the public interest.
"These are my special forgeworld las guns. They're STR 10 and AP -10. Nah, I can't check. Also, these are special forgeworld infantry. They save on 1+ and reroll fails. 2+ invuln."
17:00 mins in. No codex? No play. Tourney rules 101. No dice. No rulebook. No codex. No accepted army list = no play.
I had someone pull that same fast dice rolling shinnanigans in a fantasy game back in the day. I had a Dogs of War army going against an optimized demon Khorne list. I had to step away and complain to the head organizer at one point. I barely lost. I did get second place and the "sportsmanship" award (probably a consolation from the organizer). So frustrating. I never played in a tournament again and just stuck to playing with my friends.
Unfortunately, I do have a similar story, maybe he was Bill's distant cousin or something. 😅
So, to set the stage, before we even get to the game itself. I'm taking part in my first 40k league ever and the first time I've played anything near officially in a decade, so a beginners league felt like a great way to get my feet wet again. We have to organize our games ourselves over the course of two weeks and my opponent had missed out game day that we'd agreed on, just ghosting me for a reason he'd never explained. I still wanted to play the game though and not just get a free win so I talked to the organizer and had him give us a two day extension to get our match played, which we were finally able to arrange on the last day.
It's 9th edition, but I'm playing a Kroot heavy 1500pt army (backed by a couple Ethereals a Crisis Commander and two Breacher Squads) and still on the 8th edition codex at this point. We're playing a casual Slow Grow League, so Legends models are allowed and I've brought in my Knarloc Riders and Great Knarlocs to the fight to back up my waves of Carnivores. I'm playing against Sisters of Battle and we get to chatting he mentioned that he was looking forward to playing against me since he'd seen my Kroot army in a previous round of the tournament and that got us talking about the game's we'd previously played. He was bragging about how he'd taking down this meta dread knight list and how great miracle dice we're with meltas. So I say that he might be at a bit of a disadvantage because I'm mostly infantry. This was the first time I noticed something, we'd been talking pretty casually so far, but he clammed right up when I said that and just got to work taking out his army. Where he had talked up his many meltas, there was now not a melta to be seen, but instead an ocean of bolters and flamers, some on a unit of Seraphim, backed by a few penitent engines, an Eversor Assasin, and Morvenn Vahl. See, this league didn't require you to submit lists ahead of time because it was for newer players that were still figuring out there army, so they were freely allowed to swap out a unit or two if they didn't' like how they were feeling during the league. It was pretty clear what was going on, but much like our good Mordian Glory, I kinda took it as a challenge, I'd been doing really well and was so far undefeated in after 4 rounds, so I kinda wanted to test my army's limits.
So, deployment goes okay, nothing too crazy, I use my pregame move to advance most of my force up the board. Things start out on his turn 1 with him trying to Deep Strike his Seraphim. I call him out on that and he tries to claim that since it's casual we can do that. I explain that we're still playing with matched play rules, so that's a no go, and he lets it go reasonably easily. He then tried to full rapid fire his sisters bolters twice on the full range, saying that that's how rapid fire works... obviously a dumb tactic as my army was full of Rapid Fire weapons so I called him out on that. He then claimed it was a unique Sisters thing like with Space Marines, so I asked him to check his codex to show me. Unlike Bill, he'd actually brought his codex, and rather than even pretending to check and be wrong, he just says "oh yeah, maybe you are right" and moves on.
Not too much damage to me turn one since most of his stuff was out of rapid fire range and I move up really aggressively and pepper his army with small arms fire taking out a fair few sisters. He also forgets his 5+ FNP's multiple times on his Penitent Engines multiple times of which I remind him, thus saving about half the wounds I inflict because I don't like to win because of a missed rule. However, because of my pregame move I'm now contesting all the midfield objectives and have brought my crisis commander out of Deep Strike to cut up a tiny unit of two crusaders on the flank with his fusion blades taking another objective. On his turn two things are more in the swing and he's removing a lot of models, but I notice that he seems to be rolling dice and quickly grabbing them every time I look away for a moment, so I've got to keep my eye on that now. He does decent damage to a bunch of units and though I still hold 3/6 objectives and he only has 1, I've suffered a lot of casualties. However the scoring on this one is 2/3/more so he'll get no VP on primaries if he can't clear me off one of them. However, I'm only on 3 objectives now, not 5 as I've been shot off two. After everything there is one solitary Kroot left on the only objective he could contest and the Eversor on it is not Obsec. Making it either 3/1 in my favour or 2/2; a min 10, possibly 15 point swing.
So here is where things get crazy. I start rolling my Ld checks of which I have many, and I'm trying to go quickly because we've taken a long time getting even this far with rules checks and debates. So I roll, and roll, and roll, and as I cast the last dice, still in mid-air I say, "wait I auto pass him" for the lone Kroot on the objective. The dice comes to a stop behind a piece of terrain I can't see and then he says "nah man, you already rolled it." When I check, it is of course a fail. Now in a normal game, I'd just say whatever and take the loss, but he'd been really getting under my skin at this point and I was done with it, so after fruitlessly trying to talk things through for a few minutes I called the TO over. We go over everything that happened and the TO rules in my favour, I'm allowed to use the strat to auto pass. The dude goes ballistic, yelling at the TO and saying all kinds of colourful things. Now, this TO is essentially just a store employee and is really overwhelmed with all this so he kinda walks back his decision. He says that in the printed GW rules, if two players can't agree, they roll off and whomever wins uses their interpretation. I sigh, but am well aware of the rule and reluctantly agree, while my opponent does so whole heartedly. The TO picks up a die, says 1-3 is him and 4-6 is me and tosses it. The die lands on a 4 and the guy blows his top. Accuses me of cheating, being a win at all costs tryhard, ruining the hobby for anyone I play against, you know, just projecting and all that, before asking if this is really how I want to win the game. I point out that the game is hardly over, if anything it's pretty even since it's only turn two and while I'm way up on VP, he's way up on models.
He then says "well I refuse to play with someone who only cares about winning." scoops up his models and storms out of the store.
Afterwards the TO askes me for more information and I relay the rest of the story to him. He says that he's received similar complaints form all the guy's other opponents, and within a few days an announcement is made that he's been kicked out of the league and also banned from the store.
Of course it doesn't end there though as just like Bill he couldn't let go and stared angry PM'ing me on Facebook before I'd even made it home. I was done with his BS at that point though so I just blocked him. Now that I'm more of a member of my local community, I've since discovered that the guy is rather infamous for all these things and more, but he seems to have left the gaming on the south end and plays on the north side now, far away from anything I ever have to worry about, so all I ever do now is relay the story if his name ever comes up.
So yeah, that's my story, he was kind of a Bill light, the bastard's little cousin so to speak.
Ain’t readin allat
@@custarddemustard2769 Okay, then don't. Though if you just watched a 50 min video about a similar story, I don't know why a few paragraphs of text is such a turn off.
Sounds fun in no way whatsoever
The funny part is he thought he was showing skill by openly lying, that was indeed his bum he was showing off the whole time.
Just had a 1000pt game a couple weeks ago with my Votann. Im pretty new to Warhammer only about a year. But I've been running a escalating crusade and so i was playing a game with one of our players at our local store. Basically what happened was we were supposed to be having the store manager run it, he had surgery so he couldn't and suggested that I run it since I was interested. The game we were running was a custom game using the Arks detachment and points instead of power level. Im using a custom league centered around beam weapons just trying to play for fun not trying to destroy people. Ive already let everyone know I can't win any of the trophies at the end of the Crusade since im the organizer. This player is known for throwing a fit at the store and storming off, shes already done it once during the Crusade. We get to playing the custom tug of war scenario with hidden deployment rules. Things that the players have voted on. We discuss and agree on what terrain rules are what. She goes first, white scars. Doesn't do much. First turn i wipe out both of her bike squad's and she starts complaining endlessly because one bit of terrain we had just both agreed was dense cover she thought one particular spot had obscuring cover... Even though i explained earlier that i had set up the board to be a mirror to make everything as balanced as possible. We're playing in a GW store so we dont exactly have the perfect terrain to play it how it looks... So i start conceding points to her. "Ok no you can't reroll wound rolls against Votann but since you didn't know that ill let you and we'll just play forward with the rule." "Ok you just sank two melta shots into my Sagitaur and it lives on one hp. Ok... You're going to reroll that...so same rule you cant" she proceeds to give me a death glare " ok fine you can do it since you didn't know" blows up my Sagitaur which explodes dealing 3 wounds to 2 other units. Ok cool i play the rest of the game well and shes boxed into a corner her apothecary exposed and im able to line up two pioneer bikes with beam guns across all three units. I explain to her im trying to be nice and fair... She all but demands i give her back her bike squad i destroyed and that would be fair. No. At that moment i had 2 judgement tokens on her apothecary and 2 on the far unit with multi meltas... I decided to throw the game at that point to avoid making a scene and give her what she wants, but i will NEVER play her again. So Instead of firing both beam weapons into the unit with 2 judgement tokens, using the hunters mark strategem to auto hit one and the search light to give it the final judgement token guaranteeing its destruction, and it would also hit all of her other units. i instead sink all of my beam shots into her apothecary in the front. The rest of the shots from the two pioneer units sink their fire into the blade guard unit in the middle... With no judgement tokens... Of course where i could have killed everything i now only kill one blade guard model which the apothecary revives while healing itself to full. I stop using all my rules from here, i stop handing out judgement tokens i stop using strategems i could've used. From there she easily gets into melee. Kills one squad of pioneers. Kills my other Sagitaur with her multi melta unit i let live... Then she lines up two of her units up ...again. my whole army is built around beam weapons as a gag... So to drive the point home i parked my other squad of pioneers in front of them used hunters mark to auto hit with the beam weapon, just as a last dig. She almost throws a fit again.Finally I charge my Pioneers and the last of my Hearthkyn into the surviving bladeguard, after she kills both making it obvious she's won i concede... Worst most unfun game of Warhammer ive played. Will never play her again
I played a tournament in south Africa and the one guy conceded a match ,then his buddy told him a strategy that could win him the game ,then the guy said he wants to play the last turn even though his opponent is putting his guys away ,and a big argument involving like 10 blokes followed lol.
Where in SA was this?
@@za_sNse Joburg
Tournaments should have extra codex on hand so that this stuff can be confirmed
Oh wow, this was Will Betts? Jeezo even up here in Scotland his rep' is mud!
Yeah I just realised this and I've seen the video before.
You really took the cake, there, with Bill the B******. I don't have a tale quite that egregious, but, way back in 2nd edition I played against a guy who tried my patience with his unreasonableness. There was a rule in the game where if a blast marker didn't completely cover a unit or model, it was affected by that blast weapon or affect on a 4+. The rule specifically dealt with partial coverage from a template scatter; back then blast weapons had templates, and you placed the template where you wanted, rolled the scatter dice, subtracted your ballistic skill, and if the template drifted and didn't completely cover the base or the hull of a model, you had to check for partial coverage.
So I was playing Eldar, my unreasonable opponent was playing Imperial Guard, and I had a Swooping Hawk Exarch with, among other things, a Stasis Grenade. I swooped over to his one Leman Russ, tossed the grenade, rolled for scatter, and got a direct hit, no drift on the template. Well, this guy was proxying a Leman Russ with a plastic toy tank from the little green army men, and it was longer than a standard, GW-issue Leman Russ, as well as longer than the template was wide. He claimed that since the template didn't completely cover his model, it was only partially affected, and I would have to roll a 4+ to trap his tank in the stasis field. If I failed, by the rules he could move the unit outside the area of effect on a directing of his choosing.
I didn't want to roll that die as 1) the rules were on my side, 2) I knew he was being a weasel, and 3) I have a 100% chance of blowing a 4+ roll when playing a Games Workshop game and the roll really counts, so I pointed out that the template didn't scatter so, regardless of the size of the template or his model, the stasis field fully affected his tank.
He refused to accept.
I pointed out that he wasn't even using a proper Leman Russ so his patrial coverage argument wasn't valid.
He refused to accept.
There was also a guideline in the 2nd. ed. rules where if two players had a disagreement, they should roll off to settle the question so the game could continue. I didn't want to make that roll, either, as I knew I would lose, but it was a casual game without a third party to arbitrate, so we rolled, I lost, and he rolled his tank completely outside the area of effect of the stasis grenade, into my lines, and shot my army to bits.
You absolute legend, I salute you as a worthy gue'la commander.
Crazy times. I have had games almost come to fist fights in 5th edition. Looking forward to the scion tournament report
Just hit play, and I already know what this is about.
To quote Legend:
'Nonces to a man.'
well, my friend, I did have a game in a Hall of Heroes tournament in Canada which almost ended my desire to play 40K. I too was a guard player, and I was matched against another guard player. To set the scene HALL OF HEROES was a tournament series that was designed to allow competitors from all across Canada to compete equally in tournaments by statistical comparison. The organization, scoring and scenarios were all the same so that if you played in a HoH tourney on the East coast you could compare your scores with any other members from anywhere in Canada. I believe that this was 4th or 5th edition at the time. My guard list comprised of a mechanized company with some Le man Russes and Sentinels. My opponent was running an armoured company with 4 Squadrons of tanks which at the time was declared an illegal list. During deployment he set up all his tanks on the back edge of his deployment zone. During the course of the game, he refused to move anything or fire any of his shots, all the while spending his time trash talking me and my son (also playing in this tournament) and making me feel like just wanting to pack it in and walk away. I talked with the T O s who confirmed that they would allow the Illegal list to stand, and so I played on, managing to kill a Chimera during the battle. This allowed me enough points to secure the win. I scored our battle with what I felt was an honest score for presentation, composition and sportsmanship. His attitude left me drained and had no desire to continue. However, lunch break was spent with some fellow players from my circle of friends who convinced me to continue.
That dude just being the most boring player and convincing himself that he own other players somehow.
dude should've been disqualified for not bringing the codex or anything else to check the rules of his own army
I'd have thought it would be a rule that you have to turn up with the rules to support your army list.
We had an issue just in normal "at home" games where one of the group bought a lot of guard units and said he was using the rules from white dwarf issue XX that said gave some guard units special melee abilities.
We said "do you have that white dwarf issue with you" - he didn't, so he used the standard codex rules.
Same happened when I wanted to pout Njarl Stormcaller in terminator armour. Codex had no rules for that (it wasn't listed in his wargear options), someone said they'd seen a white dwarf with the rules/points for that. Same thing, unless the rules can be verified, go with the codex.
"We have some of your dice" - so he was saying he stole your stuff... The type of player that should be banned for life.
I played a guy who subsequently worked in the store at Warhammer World and even made it onto the recruitment website of GW. He had a loaded die.
He had a load of different dice deliberately to mask his special loaded one and he pulled it out for his Vindicare Assassin.
Not really my toxic story, but a friend of mine got a tournament lineup rigged against her and her Drukhari to prevent her from having a really good shot at coming out in the top ranks.
That’s fukd
I got so livid just listening to this, lol. I can't imagine experiencing it first hand. Good on you for keeping your cool as much as you did.
I have only played a single wargame tournament in my life and it was not even 40k, but it absolutely baffles that you can play 40k and just tell the other guy your stat lines with no proof? No book or even battlescribe? Wild stuff
Thanks for the story made my extra few hours of work more bearable!!!
I love making my list off of lore, and it's always so much fun when it shatters a tourney list. Not because i wanna win but because it reassures you that there were some practical reasons in the lore why they designed the list, etc.
I have been playing 40k since the early days of 2nd edition. Only missing Rogue Trader days by a handful of years. in over 20 years of playing wargaming in GENERAL much less 40k and Fantasy, I have luckily never had the displeasure of playing against such a toxic person. The closest I've come to were the WAAC (Win At All Costs) players that DO use the rules in such a way to make the game completely unfun for casual players like myself. Sometimes they come off as a douche, but not much else. Jeez, what a story!
In my club we had a number of guys who cheated their arses off. They moved into another club when they all got booted. To them it wasn’t cheating but playing tactically different then you.
One of the guys would bring 2 or 3 armies/lists to non tournament games in order to see what his opponent’s were playing then he would just bring out the best army to counter, pull the “oops, I’ve not got this codex but I’ve got this one, have his army box saying as such as D-eldar with wrong army foam trays inside after agreeing to play a certain army. Did this for years.
Another guy used to pull all sorts of gimmicks to cheat.
He altered his book (playing fantasy) to allow teclis to cast spells at different ranges to what he was allowed. This meant a touch spell became tabletop.
Added fake FAQs to his books, played “forge world rules”, these were taken from fan sites and not legit.
Rolled more dice, doing fast rolls out of sight, calling out the results
Would add terrain or move it during the game.
He would wear a bum bag and “accidentally” knock figures into it during matches.
Plus other stuff.
Another guy would roll dice, but say he rolled 20, 15 dices hit he would then roll all 20 again to wound.
Me and homie woulda been fighting outside and woulda been going home with a new tau army 😅
Wow what a story. Glad you rose above it, you are a star dude.
"Cheater with a Crossbow" sounds like a Grindhouse film.
It's telling that, after all of the details of that sordid, depressing tale, I just nodded and said "Yeah, that sounds like a Tau."
One day I will build a Tau army, and I will be the one to redeem the faction by not being a butt.
This is why Ive got Scribd on my phone. Straight away if Im playing against someone and they've not got a codex/army book, its a red flag, but Scribd has PDF's of a lot of them.
It's easy enough for me to find scans of these codices.
I don't play so would you be able to tell me whether or not it would be worth my time uploading the 9th edition codices to Lib Gen to make them more widely available or does it not matter anymore now that the 10th edition is about to drop?
@@jessl1934 I had issues finding PDF's pf the codices sadly, hence I used Scribd. But if you did upload them, Im sure a lot of people would appreciate it, myself included :)
@@SamPhillipsPT Okay, I went through and downloaded every codex I could find including the supplemental ones. I think I found every one of them.
They've been uploaded to Lib Gen and they're in the fiction queue so they'll be available in the coming days once they clear the queue.
It was a bit of work trying to find all of them. The Aeldari codex was nearly impossible to find - I had to navigate my way through signing up to a Russian document hosting website and I had to upload a file to it (which was harder than it sounds) before I could download the codex.
Hopefully someone finds this useful.
the amount of baby back bs you dealt with was tougher than the average guard fight
An unfortunate story, but told with grace and good humour! Very entertaining!
Worst TO I've ever heard of, and that guy should be banned from every tournament until the end of time.
Dude's crossbow was probably a special Forge World one with AP -2
plz make more of these storys. They are amazing to listen to :)
That was the wildest, most infuriating 40k battle-cheater story that I've ever heard. I stuck around for the entire 54 minutes, just so I could find out what kind of reciprocity you unleashed upon him.
I know that guy... not him personally, as I am from Michigan and have never been to the U.K., but I've played someone very like him back in the late 90's, or there-abouts. He was a Lizardman player named Chris, and every cheap rule he could exploit, every die-roll he could fast-time, he did.
A friend of mine finally fixed him by using what was called "the collar of Zorga" or something similar, which basically gave him control over Chris's big lizards. Chris never played in our group again. Well-wishes and kind regards from an old Necromancer!✌🏻💀🤘🏻
I remember the original video you posted on incident. I thought it was awful then. Had no idea it got worse for you. Good job for sticking to your convictions
i honestly get second hand frustrations from listening to this video its crazy, good job sir!
Since I found your channel my TombWorld has gained immeasurable data
It's funny how he thought he could use his retired police officer father to try and incriminate you but he couldn't get him to prevent his 2 separate custodial sentences for r@p1ng 2 under age girls and a 25 year old woman... Pure scum!! How he is allowed to exist is beyond me...
Wait what!? What's this guy's actual name? Cause that's horrific if true.
@@armata_strigoi_0
William (Bill) Betts
@@WayneCatlin Just looked him up. What a scumbag he is.
@@WayneCatlingot a link or something for this just to be sure. Cos I’ve not heard of this before hand.
that sounds like a really fun list.
i would have told the TO to bring a TAU codex for the player so he can learn the rules of his army
I say no rules, no game. If you can't show me your model's rules and abilities, we ain't playing.
I like to think Bill yried his shenanigans in a casino, and moved into the basement.
Against his will.
To be honest, after the second TO decision I would have demanded my money back and left. It was clear some cronyism is going on.
At first I kinda felt bad for you..but after the literal social media ass whooping this guy took, I feel you won immensely!! Im sure the vindication felt amazing!!!
I wouldn’t even think of playing people that don’t have the respect of the game to bring the rules for their army. By all rights he shouldn’t have been allowed to play.
This dude would've gotten a shoulder check on the way out.
Chin, all in, with an elbow.
I really enjoyed this video. I’ve heard many horror stories from tournaments, and you’re great at narrating your own experiences.
Literally wanna meet this type of guy in a dark alley.
Now that's what I call a Hobby Nightmare, Commissar
That TO was waaay to lenient and didn’t look into stuff when he should have
Glad atleast some justice was done since he's not around anymore, but it sounds like he still got off too easy
At this point I would've stopped and said get the book or fまck off.
I faced a tau player who brought a taunar and kept walking the Relic through whole game with the lord of war I didn't know this was
Illegal my buddy said how long has that Relic been with taunar. I told him he's walking Relic bro hooked me up and said taunar can't walk Relic. I won that game by one point...victory was sweet
This is probably the worst TO I've ever heard of. They allowed him to play without any books or references and the TO had a clear bias towards the Tau player and was just going "Well when I played against him thats what he said the rule was." Absolutely awful work by that TO and he sounds like he has no business running a tournament if thats how he deals with rulings
I woulda gone full roleplay and hit him with my choppa!
Mate to this day I have no idea how I kept calm!
@@MordianGlory clench your teeth and think of the emperor!
Back in the day the guy wouldn't have functional knees by the end of the event and round one
Having just been directed to this video by a friend, informing me that "Bill" was actually known to me, as i live in the frozen North of Scotland and the town where this tournament probably took place and had just moved here looking for gaming space after leaving my home town.
Reading up about the guy and finding out his past outside of GW and informing my friend who was playing in the tournament, who found out the stuff i read as a surprise.
Sadly meant i avoided this club and had very little gaming since then, but there's a good new scene at the expanded hobby store locally.
If you still attend tournaments up here now "Bill" has been ostracised, say hello as ill sort you out with a pint at the local :)
Holy crap...I was irritated for you. I can't imagine going through this. You have a lot more patience than I do good sir. The Emperor Protects.
No Codex? No Forge World data sheet. Reach across and shake his hand and record the win/forfeit for yourself and notify TO of your victory! (Especially for a 2-day GT!)
32:16 that one kid who always pull some bs o i dodged it oh i have a force field
and i wonder if he saw this video
If I were a TO and a someone had the absolute balls to show up with TWO TIGER SHARKS and WITHOUT A CODEX or at least Datacards (or at THE VERY LEAST some actual way of checking their stats) then they'd better believe that EVERY rules query about their army that I don't know the actual answer to immediately is going in favour of their opponent.
Better person than me bc I'm a believer in fuck around and find out and there is always a bigger POS out there with nothing to lose.
For anyone curious, the likelihood of rolling a 6 three times in a row is less than .5%
That TO sounds absolutely horrible. Jees. At that point i would just start making up my own rules aswell.
52:26 almost spat out my drink
People will do mad things for a plastic trophy. Have been accused (in the first American GT in 1997) of marking my deck of spell cards with my own blood (remember spell cards? From WHFB? You had to draw random ones before the game). Also of a host of other stuff. Good times.
yeah the TO was absolutely in on this
The name of the event and the TOs that were there should be made public. If I was ever to go to an event with that level of toxicity in the TOs, I'd call them out hard.
Your pain is our wonderous story to enjoy and cherish for all times.