Barry's frustration becomes much more understandable and sad when we consider the fact that, during the time he was dead, he witnessed as a ghost many great events that almost destroyed the Universe, being unable to help his friends. In fact, this is perfectly depicted in the novelization of "Crisis on Infinite Earths", in which the spirit of Barry, who acts as the main narrator, helplessly witnesses all the tragic events surrounding the elimination of the Multiverse, being the death of Kara (with whom he once shared an intimate afternoon) and the uncertainty of what will happen to Iris what hurts him the most. The epilogue of the book in which Barry's spirit ends up in the future, sees an elderly Iris advising their grandson Bart (who inherited his grandfather's super speed), and realizes his time has finally ended and must now go to Heaven is just heartbreaking
Man uncle Ben said with great power comes great responsibility.....I guess Barry didn't get that message especially when superman was being a bully I guess its flash's turn now huh?
@@killmonger5097 spot on comment the fact that he is has to use his speed ability to threaten Batman is pretty dumb. And if you look at Batman dude was not even scared of him when he tells him that but it’s because Batman knows these heroes can one shot him anytime but they won’t that’s the thing. When flash doesn’t understand what Batman is trying to say he goes to using force on a human with no powers lol. That’s like bringing a knife to a gunfight Batman can easily tell him he can paralyze him before he can do anything to him as well but he doesn’t I think this shows Batman character to be more evolved because he knows he can stop these heroes but he doesn’t say to there face because he doesn’t have to.
@@coldshot1611 you batman fanboys are something else, it Doesn't matter if batman is or isn't scared of Barry using feigned violence to prove a point. What matters is that batman truly is not the effective character everyone believes him to be. Remember, he's only human and he will continue to fail his family and friends for the sake of a delusional moral code. Let's be honest, if it was alfred instead of when Jason died, then batman wouldn't be too pussy enough to understand the true weight of being a hero. Remember the skin face joker comic when joker had the bat family by the balls or hell even INJUSTICE? THAT proves Barry's point. I understand batman wants to make things better but he better put his money where his mouth is. Because apparently fighting crime with traumatized teens is somehow the best way to save a city full if crime, don't make me laugh.
"The Old Barry died along with Wally West!" Poor Barry. Just when his nephew finally came back after 5 years of oblivion, he lost him again. Losing numerous times someone who is like a son to you must be unimaginable
@@ooneybird27 I'm not a huge Flash fan or anything, but one of the best things about the Flash Family is that I doubt they would have the "whose the best" argument. I can see them having a "whose the fastest" conversation, for laughs, but they are such a wholesome and supportive lot I doubt they would even think to wonder which one was "best".
I love the idea of Flash not taking shit from anyone, especially Batman. He evaded everything the Batcave threw at him. And could literally have killed Batman 100x in a second or less if he wanted to.
Hahaha this is the most stupid I've ever read Batman can take him down literally.Bruce killed Flash,for instant Bruce killed joker and became the Batman who laughs,the other time he killed flash it is when he took over Barry's body and became the Red Death. And, Bruce grounded Flash,plus Catwoman Bat's lover whooped all flashes. In injustice Bat's team in injustice universe Cat outsmarted him. In flashpoint paradox universe Batman(Thomas Wayne) didn't give a shit about Barry and the Flash he whooped Barry's ass. People knows that he (BATMAN [Bruce Wayne] ) has many plot armor and he is armped a guy who fell straight to Earth from outaspace and survived.
@@EthanFelixReignsYou said it yourself, plot armor is the only thing keeping batman on level with everyone else, anyone else with a brain knows batman can be anyone in the Justice leagues bitch If they really wanted to try (besides green arrow maybe)
@@EthanFelixReigns Batman has never truly taken him down until the Batman who laughs storyline. But if you think for 1 second that Batman would actually have a chance against someone who rewrite history with his speed, you have lost it. Flash can literally go back in every time line and kill Bruce as a child or at his peak. When Batman fought against Professor Zoom or Reverse Flash (look it up) he got his ass kicked. The only thing that saved Batman was time and the fact that he did not just CHOOSE to vibrant his hand through Batman's heart. That's the only reason why there is much more content and "contingencies" for a human being. He is the ONLY JL character that NEEDS IT to stay relevant. Supes, Flash, GL, MMH, WW can all speed blitz Batman out of existence if they chose to. The reason why they don't is because they are not assholes. And Batman is one and narcissistic as well.
@@grifo3310 hahahaha, hahahaha wow you must be that dumb flash shot killed Thwane with a gun anyone can kill the Flash and justice league members.Catwoman kicked the flashes' ass. Batman the flashpoint gave flash a beat down,what if DC gives Deadpool's treatment by killing the entire universe like Tim Drake did,Batman has weaknesses so he exploit and he would use them.Supergirl kicked the son of Mars's ass. Flash couldn't beat Kara Zor-El. Your comment is irrelevant and I'm staying within the topic of discussion. Flash took down the entire Justice league in alternate universe,and have you read comic book called Batman:Drown? Batman: Devastator (#Batmandevastator , #Batman: Devastator comics) ? Have you read comics where DC Trinity Superman mind controlled by the joker and Batman outsmarted Superman and wonderwoman. Harley Quinn had beaten Wonderwoman and Superman. Batman will burn Son of Mars like Superman did him. It will depend on the writer's,Alfred whooped Superman's ass. Batwoman whooped wonderwoman. Superman with powers he is dangerous. You are funny little man I won't take you serious doc.
@@funnelingspace9268 let me turn the table around the justice league members are Batman's bitches and side cheeks in towel of barbel Ras did Batman's job by taking down the justice league,and same BATMAN Killed joker and killed entire Justice league the most powerful beings ever. People think bats is weak and can win with plot armor,he can win against them with or without plot armor, Harley Quinn had beaten the most powerful being wonderwoman,even Kate Kane beats wonderwoman
People forget that with how fast the flash can run, if he throws a pitch at you, he doesn't even need to hit you. He just has to stop midair and an air current wil send you flying. This implies that barry not only got close enough to bats, but simultaneousely had to slow himself down emough so he didn't send bat's flying with wind pressure
Not entirely true in the sense that he doesn't need to slow down. That is for the same reason why he can move people at super speed without killing them, or why he doesn't make everyone around him deaf whenever he breaks the sound barrier or why he isn't throwing around wind blasts like you mentioned: The speedforce. It was already explained in the comics that speedsters in the DC universe tap into the Speedforce, and through it they can generate a field of energy around them that contains the catastrophic consequences of breaking speed barriers. I am pretty sure he can turn that field off if he wants, which is how he creates tornadoes sometimes, but he could just suddenly stop without slowing down and still not throw a wind blast because of the speed force.
There's also this weird stuff happens all the time. Batman and Flash always ends up in this kinda messy situations more than anyone else. Flash trusts Batman WAY more than himself and always goes with his command. What we're seeing here is Flash's frustration, not his grudge against Batman. What Batman is talking about is already understood by Flash. Flash is just making Batman realize that this is a never ending battle and we gotta stop young people falling into this endless trap. Batman 🤓 point is that how can we stop these people becoming like this when we're not stopping ourself at any point. When's Batman going to shutdown batcave and close down his cape? When's Superman going to stop flying to fight? When's Flash going to stop? If they cannot afford the decision to stop their own selves, how can they stop others from any decision? Flash's is mainly making the point that it's too much loss to bear and he cannot see anymore costume fighters go through such tragic losses like they have already gone through. The fact that Batman and the JLA are authoritive enough to ACTUALLY stop new heroes, since at their time no-one was there, so they were sort of forced to choose this life, while the new heroes are in different time. Batman is only being democratic here and the big brother to Flash like he always do. And Flash is going through a loss and Batman is the only one he can open up to without minding slipping his tongue. You know, like you open up to your parents when you have a burst while not caring about disrespecting them because you know they love you enough to give you this comfort without thinking about it. Batman is always bashed by everyone and always being threatened to be one shotted. But every member of JLA highly respect his ideals and decision (like that "Batman owning Wonder Woman in the Robin matter" clip), that's why they live by his words. Only because they have no choice left. It's more of Flash cry for help, than Flash owning Batman's ego.
The problem with the Flash's reasoning is that the absence of superheroes doesn't change the fact that supervillains exist. If there was never another single superhero created, there would eventually not be anyone to stop the supervillains. Who would stop Darkseid without someone equally as powerful to stop him? There are beings that pose existential threats that demand the existence of a force that can oppose it.
Actually Barry, we dont fail them. The writers just wont let us rest and put us against ridiculous odds and see if it pans out and when it doesnt they say its a different universe. I can't out think what the writers say I think. - Batman Probably
yeah, i kinda get tired of preachy writers. The best present both sides and let the audience decide, but far too many get on a soap box and preach half-thought ideas that haven't really survived a true argument.
@@michaelavery5618 Exactly thooo I hear this argument every so often, but this is why I like Japan's industry with its Author-centered output a bit more, that idea being that "series can end when they need too" Of course I like Spider-Man and Batman and The Flash continuing their adventures, but something has to give, otherwise it just looses itself
The problem is that Western Comics have brainrotted over half the audience into thinking that stories have to continue into infinity with the same exact heroes and villains over and over because that's how they market their product and expect it to make money and also use it as a content farm for their live-action movies. So you can never have comics where the heroes actually explore the proper use of their powers and act on it to *finish the story* because people think that's inherently "boring" and without conflict, stakes, or struggles, or they're immediately relegated into Elseworlds. Even though there's a perfect model to draw from to create new stories: in real life there's enough resources and technology to solve most world crises, the real issue is that politically, someone in power benefits from resources being withheld. So the comics could have the same exact conflict at hand, but Western Comics have also headfaked people into believing that they're "apolitical" even though there's a superhero literally named Captain America or they advertise that Superman stands for Truth, Justice, and the *American* way (give or take *A Better Tomorrow*)- so as part of that headfake they make the conflict some cyclical Other Thing that can be physically punched into submission, yet another plot where the heroes fail to communicate with each other and get into a fight, or preachy wishy-washy horseshit where the heroes talk big about an issue they can reasonably solve but never do anything about it because the writer is too afraid of defining whatever "A Better Tomorrow" or "American Way" actually is because it goes against their own interests. To contrast, if you're a manga fan who wants to "Read about Son Goku", you start with Dragonball and go to Z and then either GT or Super, and Akira Toriyama and whoever else isn't worried about "Uhhhhhhhh, but wait, Goku has to fight Nappa and Raditz again for the 50th time" or "Gohan's family is in danger but he won't tell Piccolo about it so they gotta fight before realizing who the actual bad guy is.... Again!” or whatever, and ultimately the story ends with the Earth finally being at peace with a statue of Goku built in memorial of him, or he goes off to train a kid to be the next generation of hero.
Essentially, yes. There have been times when I've read comics and thought 'C'mon, give these guys a fricking break, will ya?' Barry's frustration is palpable, but Barry's too distraught to even consider that Batman's right: the kids choose their path. If they don't get support in the form of mentorship and advice and training, it'd be the same as throwing a toddler at a pack of hungry wolves. Bruce knows this all too well because of Tim Drake, the kid who practically forced his way into being Robin.
But they have magic and technology beyond our means no? (Can't Zatanna and Constantine get rid of the curse on Gotham!?/ Can't Batman cure joker after getting his blood sample? Pretty sure a vial of untainted blood of his is somewhere in the city no? /Can't Martian ManHunter reads the minds of most enemies from earth to find out their evil Schemes and where their evil equipment and gear and resources are kept? Superman also has superhearing but things still happen in other places!? [I know comic logic lol] )
@@jasonborne238 He never managed a plan to keep Gotham safe or lock up his villains so they're not out on the street the very next day. Was getting his back broken by Bane part of his plan too?
@SuperMontsta that was golden age batman first off secondly yeah he actually did manage to permanently decomission all crime in gotham in one storyline with Jason todd but was killed by superboy prime
“I could hit you a hundred times before you could throw a single punch” Just try and imagine that. Do you think you would even feel the individual blows? Or would your brain just go “Ayo when tf did we get hit by a gotdamn train?!?”
there's this scene in Jojo's Bizarre adventure where a guy rapidly punches another guy in stopped time. after time resumes, multiple holes appear and he just instantly became paralyzed. I suppose that's exactly what will happen to batman
Loved it. Remember reading this when the issue first came out and I love those reminders that Batman at the end of the day is a normal man. More than half the league will embarrass him without his prep time. This coming from a Batman fan.
@@killmonger5097 and a lot i mean a lot of plot armor because he is the cash cow of dc comics the one that sales the most that's why he is ridiculously strong
I agreed with Bruce on this. You can't stop the kids from choosing the superhero path, they'd just do it behind ur back or worse leave to do it on their own. Best you can do, like any parent is equip them for any trial they will come against. I mean, ppl think that bats, green arrow and all the others with kid sidekicks, that they're being forced to do this, they all have the self-awareness to walk away, and at this point they all have and work independently anyway.
Ah yes. What choice does Batman have other than letting minors engage in knuckle breaking combat in the most crime ridden city on Earth? There couldn't possibly be a better way to promote self-healing, right?
@@L-eye-t tell me a better way for self healing. Dick would have killed his parents murderers and continue the path of crime , Jason would have been a theif. Think back on all the storylines of Batman and see how many times his family saved innocent lives and even Batman himself. You think bats can take care of crime in Gotham all by himself?
@@tanime_man6535 Do I...really need to answer this question? Does therapy not exist in the DC Universe? Maybe a change in scenery so they don't have to live a desaturated lifestyle in the most drab location in the world? Perhaps talking out their problems with people who had similar experiences to offer camaraderie or a better understanding of their situation and how to move forward? Building strong relationships with people that could even qualify as a second family willing to fill the void in their heart with kindness? These solutions exist in our world yet Batman's obsession with bludgeoning thugs within an inch of their lives is the ONLY effective coping mechanism available?
@@L-eye-t wow therapy? 😂 You really think schools and hospitals are gonna last in a city like Gotham. If Batman and his family was not there i can at least recall a dozen times joker might have blown up a hospital or a school. What's a use of therapy or education when there is no city to protect? These villains would have destroyed Gotham long ago if not for these vigilantes.
I love when they remind you Batman is a human and has human limitations really makes his character all the more impressive even tho he never stands a chance against like Flash or WW or anyone like that he still tries his best
@@SteveWilsonComic-Man your poster name is ironic. You’re actually reading here how Flash can easily fuck Batman up and you still think Batman would win. You’re denying your own fucken eyes!
@@SteveWilsonComic-Man lol "if they tried to kill batman" they don't have to try Superman can literally breath and he'll turn into a bag of bones Flash would end him in an attosecond
In Batman: Dark Victory, Bruce absolutely refuses to let Dick join his mission. Dick was hellbent on joining though. He kept crossing the boundaries Bruce put up, and Bruce couldn't stop him. It ended with Dick saving Bruce's life and making his debut as Robin, without permission. Bruce gives in and decides to train him. And then he worked to ensure that Dick never took the same path that he did. Another great example is Harper Rowe. She actively sought out the Batman and even after his multiple attempts to stop her from getting involved-- including one where he threw her through a wall and told her to stay out of his way, for which he later apologizes-- She still continues to be involved, right up until Bruce decides to train her and make her Bluebird. Yet another example: Steph and Tim. Like, the only way to stop the kids from going out and being heroes in-universe would be to lock them up. Tie Dick down with chains, keep Wally or Bart in an anti-meta pod so they can't use their powers. That would be more damaging than teaching them how to properly do what they want to do. Locking them up might even turn them into villains or make them vulnerable to exploitation. They aren't recruiting children. They're taking the kids who are already doing this and making it safer for them. Of course they're still going to die. Barry and Bruce have been dead or thought dead multiple times themselves.
Flash is literally amoung one of DC most powerful and broken characters the guy has the power to go back in to create new timelines and erase old ones and so much more
@@barryallen9625 no, Dr.Manhattan caused all of it he had went back to the ORIGIN of D.C. and saw that it all stemmed from Golden Age Superman, the ENTIRE Multiverse does, and the explosion of Krypton is kind of the starting point. Convergence revealed a LOT of shit. It takes more than Flash or Superman is actually capable of to alter time in D.C., everytime Silver Age Superman tried, he never could change the outcome of what happens that he was trying to prevent. Minus that movie where he reversed time, lmfao. But, no, that was revealed in Convergence to all be Dr.Manhattan, even when Anti-Monitor devoured alkost all of the D.C. Multiverse, that too was apparently Dr. Manhattan's doing. EVERY SINGLE MAJOR CRISIS THAT ALTERED D.C. is Dr.Manhattan... dudes OP.. lol He easy mode owned the strongest D.C. heroes all at once. The ONLY one he couldn't just shrug off was Superman. Because he had been trying to ERASE Superman from the Multiverse and he tried many different ways of doing it, from changing the time, and location where Superman's ship landed, he tried with and without Clarks adoptive parents. He tried even preventing the destruction of Krypton, and he could not, it ALL stems from that moment and all Manhattan could do was throw his hands up in the air and undo all of the damage he had done trying to erase Superman. This is similar to when Emperor Joker couldn't remove Batman from existence without removing himself too, since Batman is the sole reason Joker even exists. Same thing for why Dr.Manhattan could not erase Supes. No matter what he did, Superman always became Superman, one way or the other. And he always came into confrontation at the "end of time" against Superman and most of the time he had no idea if he destroys everything, or if Suoerman Destroys him. Turns out Superman talks him out of it typical Superman fashion, and Dr.Manhattan undoes everything he did, and restored the Infinite D.C. Multiverse, thus making all Realities(universes) in D.C. canon again. And in a way? DR.Manhattan also gave Quantum Superman an actual origin story by the end of Convergence.
@@barryallen9625 It's weird I know, Dr.Manhattan like Mr.Mxy sits outside of reality doing this shit, he exists and see's and experiences multiple if not infinite realities and timelines simultaneously. He arranged for these things to happen and even killed Zoom for knowing too much.. whom said when he was found dying burning in blue fire... "I..saw..GOD.." Dr.Manhattan at this point seems to be like The Source in the way he works.
Disclaimer: This was Pre New52, Pre Rebirth. One of the best confrontations I have seen with Flash was him showing how he could throw a punch at near light speed.
Basically, without spoiling the story, the JL created a sanctuary where an AI, which acts a therapist, helped heroes who go through trauma and have major stress from their job, but tragedy happened when someone murdered some of the heroes, Wally included, and Barry is accusing Batman who might be partially responsible for it.
@@atomicgator5207 if that's the same comic I think off this definitely goes very much wrong since he's berating batman and talking how wally west shouldn't have become a hero and he's right because the whole murders spoilers . . . . . . Are done by wally west
@@atomicgator5207 Barry was being irrational to be honest, he thought Gotham Girl, the person in the tube in this video, was responsible for the heroes murder. Just because she has Kryptonian powers and speed. Thinking she's fast enough to kill Wally West.
Context: This comic happened during the Heroes in Crisis event, don't remember which, honestly. What happened was the JL created a sanctuary that provides therapy sessions for heroes, through an A.I., that would help elevate their stress and trauma from their work. Then a murder happened that led to the death of a couple of heroes, Wally West included, but the JL don't know who did it. So, Barry started to suspect that it was Gotham Girl, due to having Kryptonian powers, which were given to her by Batman, since she should at least be fast enough to catch all the murdered heroes off guard, Wally included. And started to irrationally accuse Batman for sending her to the sanctuary, because both of them are aware of her history of being mentally unstable after the death of her brother, Gotham, and felt that Batman was partially responsible for the heroes death. As it turns out, Barry was wrong.
@@davantebarbain3216 No, Batman gave her Kryptonian powers with the Platinum Kryptonite, the one that Superman gave to him in case if he wants Kryptonian powers.
Batman's delusional if he thinks hes saving anyone, his own existence perpetuates everything he fights. Barry's realization is existential and batman can't empathize with it. He is right but it hurts all the same
@@gangjira But that's the thing. Batman's only human, so to achieve things, he needs help. And help requires getting others involved. To get people involved, due to protecting his own identity and just general ability to be a superhero and fund/support his superhero work batman needs to get help from people he trust. To trust people, and them to trust him, they need to be close. And therefore that creates the problem/weak spot for Batman, and any hero really, who decides to have people they care for. And this doesn't even need to apply for superheroes with people they work with like Batteam, Alfred, fellow superheroes and sidekicks. This applies to anyone any superhero decides to care for- which is literally inescapable unless the superhero decides to go hermit and not have a normal civillian life AND they cut all contacts with any and all friends and families they've ever had. I can't think of any real hero who works alone and has no civillian/close family or friends they hold. You have to be a complete monster who does everything for the cause to be able to dedicate your life to only saving people. Not even Batman does that, as he at least has lovers, family, friends and even a son- and Batman's probably one of the craziest for the superhero cause. Thing is even then, if there was one, I can't think of any real hero who even if they did work alone/hermit I doubt they would also be super-powerful that they never need help. I mean Superman's plenty powerful but has been susceptible to many things, or even flat out faced enemies just flat out stronger than him. Barry's problem is he doesn't want to put people he loved at risk. But that is impossible as there is no character out there who is super-powerful enough to never need help so that they don't ever need to work in a group, they also can't ever want any close relationships and they most definitely need to want to also be a good guy. The closest character to this are the Presence, The One Above All etc. types of characters but even then these guys are never good guys but just in the middle. Barry crying about this is like a Billionaire crying about the sinking of his yacht. Flash is one of the strongest characters in...fiction. He complains about not being able to save his loved ones, but I really couldn't think of many characters out there who I would have in my corner to save me. I would genuinely pick Flash over Superman as Flash can get to me multitudes of times faster than Superman could. Imagine being Batman and having Lobo or Reverse Flash after your family. I would genuinely be shitting my pants. At least if I was Superman I know I can...you know just show up and do my best. What's Batman gonna do? Run them over with the batmobile? I love Flash but he was definitely in the wrong here. That being said, that's why I like Flash and Batman's interaction here. Batman fully understands all of this cause he is used to having his loved ones in danger- he literally has the most famous side kick and butler in fiction. He understands putting them in the danger they are in, is necessary to keep others and even themselves away from danger as it's better to be able contribute to defending yourselves and others than hope someone does it for you.
That's the thing. Greif is irrational, sometimes people will say terrible things in that state and sometimes it's better to let them vent and appolgise about it afterwards. Like, Batman immediately knew after he said that he had made a misstep. Even if he was in the right, that wasn't the time to snipe at Barry, even if he was being an arse.
@@laneneely1077 then you're wrong either way considering how often Batman is shown to own the JL just for the sake of it, meanwhile it's extremely rare to find the opposite
i love the fact the bat cave counter measures go into action the min flash activates his powers, so batman isnt even cocky enough to wait til an opp or a recognized threats attacks; he understand what a disadvantage he is at..he cant allow any room for a threat attacking him.. and u know after seeing firsthand how his countermeasure "slowed" but cldnt really neutralize the flash..u know he gonna upgrade
nah man, thats going to get just as old as batman winning against impossible odds. the outcome whatever it may be just needs to make sense for what theve established. no bias.
@@Axel-ye8tt so your trying to tell me that because Batman is the most popular hero he should be able to fight on par with Amazons, Lanterns, and Kryptonians?
One thing I’ve never understood about Flash is that he’s able to turn at a 90 degree angle at high speeds. If you were running at your top speed at a fraction of that, you still need to run at an arc to keep the momentum going. Look at the way baseball players round bases.
Option A: His complete control over his molecular movement (which allows him to 'vibrate' through solid objects) means that he can just apply force in a new direction as if he were hit by an object with sufficient inertia to cause hard angular turns. Option B: He pirouettes, imparting sufficient angular momentum to cause the hard angular turns. Option C: It is just a work of fiction, don't think about it too hard.
@@christianboehlefeld5168 that option C is always boring. At least, when fans try to think about what happens or how something happens, it shows their interest over the fiction even if it's fiction. Though I think Option A makes the most sense
i dont know this just makes batman more badass than anything. flash is basically flexing his powers against a normal human to "demand" respect. it makes him look shallow.
Yep! But don’t sleep on the flash. He on some occasions, put Wonder Woman in her place. One comic of them fighting, i underestimated Flash.😳. Makes me realized that ALL superheroes hold back
Flexing his powers? Do you see him doing this casually every time Batman is around?? He only did it this time to show the Bat that for all of his plans, genius and most importantly his whole demeanour that he constantly has making him seem like he's the one who's the most traumatized and the one who deals with the most shit at all times, he is just another person like everyone else (in the league or otherwise) and therefore he should watch his mouth, especially since he is a normal man compared to the rest that are super powered.
A lot of the justice league have this sibling dynamic. I would say while Batman and Superman feel like brothers around the same age, Flash feels like a younger brother. Not because he's foolish. The opposite. Because everyone underestimates him. I don't mean in terms of raw power. But Bruce definitely felt like the older sibling who felt so strongly like he knew better. Source: i am the elder sibling And you know batman. It's not easy to get him to have an emotional or irrational outburst. But with family it's more common. Especially accidentally going to far and hurting eachother. That only happens when you're close. Because then you can't brush it off like "You don't know anything about me." You know they're close because despite how guarded Bruce is, he took off his mask to speak his most emotional words. When Flash mentioned Alfred and Robin i don't think it was malicious to hurt Batman. It was to get him to take what he's saying seriously. But Bruce responded with words that intended to hurt in a fit of emotion. I dunno, it just reminded me of my experience as an adult still deeply connected to her little brother. Ignore my over analyzing
People complaining about whether Batman is OP or could get his ass whooped are missing the point. His character is supposed to represent the absurdity that one human could be so powerful despite human limitations, and that his brain is his biggest strength. That’s why he is written to always have plans and backup plans upon backup plans, because if the writers didn’t give him that then He’d get his shit kicked in.
@@blastphantomgames6369 Iron Man's plot armor is literally his armor. What can it do? Whatever nanites or whatever BS power source says it can. Flash's plot armor is the speedforce. Flash ignores all physics so what can he do? Whatever the speed force or his writer says he can.
I mean, Flash just insults Batman constantly here. He insults Bruce and his failures. But when it's reversed after Flash went 1 step too far (you don't bring up dead Robins) Flash immediately resorts to violence and threats? Guess he can dish it out but can't take it.
Shoot. Spider-Man do that mess too. A good example Is the Ultimate Spider-Man Comic Series that ran From the Early 2000s. Spidey was roasting everyone. And people barely could say anything back, he’ll just drop them😅😂
He stopped short of punching batman's head a hundred times between eye blinks. If you call that violence, I dunno what you'd call actually following through.
@@alpham3767 it’s literally the equivalent of a guy insulting another guys family and guy number 2 responds the same way and first just pills out a gun and says ” i could shoot you if i wanted to”. I dunno i think that’s a pussy move
@@alpham3767 In my opinion if you threats to beat the shit up of an old lady, but don't do it, your still a violent person, you still did an violent act, just not an physical one
I thought i see cool debate in comment section, you know, about THE STORY, about flash and batman, two heroes conflict, for example, Barry did the right thing threatening his friend, almost family? but nooo, that always the same. BATMAN BEAT FLASH PREP TIME NOOO BATMAN IS SHIT HES HUMAN AND PLOT ARMOR. Seriously dc fans need to growing up, all these years it's the same fuckin debate, who beats who, just go watch dragon ball or smth.
Another thing if batman is apart of the JL don't ever doubt him buddy you can't join a power league without having some typa _______ well you fill in the line
I get so tired of this overly righteous behavior. Character's feelings are hurt so now they have to go around and tear into anyone unlucky enough to be in their path. It's just more Hero teardown writing from hack artists that only peddle one trick pony standards throughout their careers. - We do good for the World : But at what cost?!?! - There are people alive today that wouldn't be if we didn't act! : But Bad Things Still Happen - Bad things are always going to happen regardless of our presence, but we make a difference in the lives we save : But if we didn't act we wouldn't have such tough lives - Life is going to be hard regardless of having the ability to do something about it or not : So then why bother with it all!? ...and there it is, folks. The Apathy virus is pushed out there to once again help to demoralize readers into thinking nothing matters and there's no reason to think otherwise. After all, if your heroes/mythos just parrots what the mainstream media pushes, then it makes it all the easier to condition people not to dream, not to act, not to care.
i mean if he is gonna be rude towards batman he better be prepared to take some insults back, the fact he instantly gets aggresive when insulted back makes him look like a kid in this comic, not really showing what respect is to batman here but ok i guess
I suspect batman did have an option but probably didn't use it. Batman knows the flash is grieving but he also knows the flash is not the type to kill his own allies or friends in rage fueled emotions so he held back.
1:52 "Another dead Robin" To be honest, I think that was a really cheap shot for Barry in order to goad Batman. If it wasn't for the fact that Jason, Stephanie, and Damian were alive again at this point, I'm sure Batman would have unleashed all his rage towards him, just like he did to Dick when the first Robin blamed him for Jason's death after being notified about the tragic event
*I'm Sure batman would've beaten him to the core* The Flash: "I'm not like you". The Flash saying I'm not like you, is the Flash literally saying I could've killed you 100 TIMES OVER before you even throw your first punch....I understand batman is GOATED. But yall can quit acting like he's unbeatable. The Flash in this very Instinctive proved his countermeasures don't mean shit going full speed. So batman fans need to stop foreal
@@ErickGonzalez-yv1gc how do you expect him to react when barry throws dead robins around. that’s not easy for bruce at all. at least bruce wasn’t the aggressive one here
I like when Batman doesn't have plot armor. But fuck Barry, he acts like a dick and blames Batman for everything and when Batman snaps, threatens him by flexinng his superpowers. What an asshole.
There is no humiliation. Batman is human. He could die to any number of super powered threats. That's what makes him Batman. When written poorly he can definitely have plot armor though. Similarly though the Flash ALWAYS has plot armor, because he breaks physics so "something something speedforce" lets him apply, not apply, or change physics whenever he wants. How strong flash is, how fast, how vulnerable, how they are going to mangle physics today? It's all writer dependent. Whatever they say goes and he can just plot armor his way out of anything just like Batman. Both are good characters so long as you put your epeen away though.
I feel like people are missing the point, all of Batman failures are something Bruce's could had stopped at one point of another. While Wally disappearance was something out of Barry's control as the whole universe forgot he existed. So like stop meat glazing Bruce because most of league could folded him, if they really wanted too.
I also didn't read it as Barry calling out Bruce's failures, but giving valid reasons why constantly making new heroes is bad for those people. Bruce refused to acknowledge Barry's point and instead threw Wallys death in his face
Yeah never got the point behind Batman. The only way a human can compete in a universe like this is if the writers say so. Aside from high intelligence, something most of the JL members have, he has nothing of true value aside from a seemingly infinite amount of money and cool gadgets. Compared to other heroes, he just seems obsolete if the writers don't make him seemingly unbeatable
@@rustyshackleford5288 ngl Batman don't work in justice league, should've make him the Nick fury of justice league if they want Batman in justice league that much
Cool, but now can you post one of Superman embrassing this fraud as well? I recommend Hush, Superman #210, and Tales of the DC Universe Online: legends.
It’s commonly known that Batman has a contingency plan to stop every Justice League member but my favorite comic book fact is the his plan to stop the Flash is to literally just cripple him.
Batman needs to be put in his place like this many times. This version of Batman that always have a plan for everything. I hate it… mostly for it is not a good story and kind of a copout for real story telling (I had that planned ten years ago etc) … but also because of all the powers that all the heroes have this human have the most impossible to have. No one can plan this much. It simple is not possible.
In a world with people that can walk faster than a flying bullet before it bounces off someone else's chest and gets grabbed out of thin air and crushed by a transparent green hammer, do you really want to say any power at all is "the most impossible to have"? lol We're taking comics toooooo seriously nowadays desiring something totally fictional to become more realistic because of how much realism has been added to comics over the years to make them more immersive. But lets be honest. If Batman's abilities made more sense he'd been dead before he even got a chance to put on a cape! 😂 His impossible abilities are meant to be as equally impossible as the other heroes. None of it is supposed to be possible. That's what makes the fantasy entertaining.
@@hugejackedman3447 I surely do. And why should I care what you write about taking it to seriously. I am just discussing it… if you can not seperate that from taking it to seriously it is your problem. In a world with fantasy objects and superpowers and there are many of such books, films, and comics it is for me important to have the effect of suspension of disbelief still in play. Or why should I care at all. Probably what you call taking it to seriously. And it is also what I do like. I like when Batman has his limitation and work like a detective. Such comics like Alan Moores comic when Superman got attacked ”in the the man who has everything”. It is a great comic and Batman works from the sidelines with Robin and he has no illussion about his role in this situation. He needs to wake up Superman who is put in a dreamstate situation by an alien. Batman is well aware that he has no chance what so ever in this kind of fight. But he is trying to understand the situation and work out what is wrong with Superman. Wonderwoman though go straight in to battle. This makes the situation feels more pressed. Batman has to solve this problem or he will die and wonderwoman in the end as well because she is weaker than the enemy. That is the way one should use Batman. To make a story more exciting because he simple is not at par with his friends in strength. But that on the other hand is his strength in storytelling. But to me they destroyed that when they went another direction. And it does not add up. All those silly powers I can buy. This is not reality in any kind of way. But to me a human should be a human with human limitations, And DC just like to much the underdog defeating every one else. And unfortunatly when they done that a million times he is no longer the underdog. And then it is just silly. At least to me.
Realistically Batman is indeed a detective however he has oracle for that. On top of that realistically Batman technically shouldn't be human anymore between the magic and more importantly he knows how some people got their superpowers he would just have to recreate it.
@@hurmur9528 You took that a bit toooo much as a criticism when it was just a general statement about public perception. At no point did I imply you specifically were taking something too seriously. Notice I said "WE'RE" meaning myself included so why would and how could you take that personally? That said, you're entitled to like whatever you like. My initial question was meant with a lil facetiousness as if you notice I was making fun of the absurdity of comic tropes to which my point was nothing should be unbelievable if any bit of fantasy is acceptable. If we can accept aliens that get hurt by shiny green rocks why can't we accept a human with a brain that works like a supercomputer? lol And again you have every right to like what you do and have an opinion of your own but it's a legitimate question as it questions our expectations of something that is supposed to be fantasy. In other words, why are we demanding logic from something already illogical in the first place? It's like taking issue with Santa Claus not being black or latino or the Easter Bunny laying eggs. But I do have to say one thing in opposition to your take on Batman: If he only did his best work from the sidelines solving things he'd just become a more ridiculous version of "The Question". If he's smart enough to solve the most pressing and most difficult matters then why wouldnt he be smart enough to develop strategies and contigencies to keep himself breathing against beings that could kill him with a single breath?
How the hell these topics are related? How Batman's plot armor related to their argument? They are talking about using children as superheroes and consequences from it. How Batman mistrusting his allies is related to usage of children? I have a feeling writers decided to pull it out, just to make Barry's rant more "valuable" than it really is. In reality Barry does nothing but insults Batman for 2-3 minutes, tells about "prep time", then throws "dead Robin", and when Batman finally snaps and throws single "Forgot existance", Flash immedeately wents into violence and flexes his superpowers to a simple human. What a dick. I don't like Batman, but if "putting him in place" is doing this bs, I would be on his side.
The real reason why Batman has contingency plans - he was an attosecond from being turned into ground chuck by the Flash. The anti-Flash turrets weren't even touching him.
@fabisonsouza6774 The Bat Computer sensed that Barry was getting angry and engaged the proper protocols. So yes, I'm going Batman '66 and calling the guns "The Emergency Anti-Flash Bat Turrets." I said what I said.
@@Skaramine This isn't Bat Cave defense protocols against every threat and not against just Flash? I don't think "green shoots" are made against Flash.
Barry likes proving that he's better than Bruce, but Batman is dug in realist and obsessively cautious and pragmatic. He's the one most aware that everything he does has consequences. The Flash's have a chronic "I can fix it" syndrome and everyone pays for it with their very existence.
@@DeathlordSlavik Yeah they are, they all kill innocent civilians on a larger scale than joker ever could because of their powers. for example, how long will spider man stand by and allow electro, sandman, doctor octopus, green goblin, venom, carnage kill innocents. or the x men allowing magneto to continue his genocide against the human race or red scrolls socialist regime, I can go on and on lol.
The one thing that I feel the most lacking in most of these comic book stories is a sense of respect and admiration among their comrades. That was not the case when the Justice League Unlimited series came out. Stories were coherent and the characters were mature. They respected and admire one another and yet accepted their flaws. And everyone was self-aware. The stories now are so..."American" They fight, they argue, they disagree and bicker as teenagers to the point of being okay with hurting one another. The old Justice League had such refined characters who acted so much like grown ups. These type of inconsistencies is how a character falls off. And I believe we saw the best versions of DC heroes in that Justice League Unlimited era.
Batman was right about the whole argument. Even if Flash could punch him a hundred times before he threw one punch. Plus the Reverse Flash already showed us what Flash could do to Batman in under a minute.
Plus those parting words, "but I'm not you." He's right of course Bruce didn't even try to hit him once, even though Barry was attacking him in anger. Barry was just hurt, projecting his own shortcomings onto Bruce to knock down so he could feel right. But neither were entirely wrong; the hero life will hurt the hero, will hurt the hero's loved ones, but it is the choice of the individual to pursue it, and it is worth it if only because of the cost of nobody doing it. You can't stop children from growing up, you can only protect them from making their own choices for so long. So better to set a good example, to teach what to do, to show what they shouldn't, and ultimately to be there to support them when they screw up like everybody does.
The only other option is do nothing and let all this great forces, cosmic forces do as they please and accept our doom. Nice hero. Nihilist speedster is here to not save you, because everything is doom anyway.
My thing is this..Flash was talking shit to batman how he felt fit to...and the moment batman threw some shit back in his face flash wants to get physical...or at least threaten to 😂
I was really sad when this comic came out. It was right after Catwoman left Bruce at the altar, after Dick Grayson was shot in the head, and Batman was one of the biggest proponents for Sanctuary. He needed a friend, someone to remind him that he wasn't alone. He didn't get that.
These Batman haters the new fanboy Let's get this straight Batman has access to alien drugs to make him as strong as a Kryptonian He could learn magic easily he knows where they all are And could make ironman level suits with the weaknesses of the other heros There's also him getting superpowers on purpose He should be able to literally just not lose being human is a choice Oh yea failsafe
Like yeah, it called strategy. And most of the strategy (depends on resourses) requires (sometimes multiple) mistakes from opponent. Of course you doesn't need a strategy or superpowers, if you have plot armor, but we are not talking about it now.
I loved how someone called out Batman on his bullshit without Bruce getting the last laugh or where the other person is put in a negative light. I don't dislike how flawed Batman is, I dislike how they present him and his flaws as absolute justice when such a thing is like true perfection, an impossibility. It's almost always Batman's way or the high way. The writers put Batman's morals on a pedestal and he often talks on others on such a high horse even though he stoop so low. He's a flawed man, just trying to do what he thinks is best, that's how he should be presented as, not this God slayer who's the best and his way of thinking is the best.
@@oevandrorealconfia4762 I like batman, but when he's outside of the league as a street level criminal. Yes he beats meta, but they're lower tier and his planning, cunning, and tech is more believable
Normal trying to fight after getting return roasted means you lost And is threatening folks because you lost a roast session superhero behavior This not even a fight Batman wasn't even trying to fight
Called out of Batman's bullshit? Started insulting Batman, somehow bring out completly unrelated contingency plans, then insults Batman more, and when Batman finally snaps, Barry starts flexing with his superpowers almost wenting into complete violence. Fuck Barry, what an asshole. It's not like Batman forced enyone into becoming heroes, and it's not like he was the first to ask them to act like one. Teenagers would *try* to be heroes, regardless of people's opinions, and Batman offers his help, because even if he disagree, he would be ignored and the kids themselves would dead a week later, bleeding to death in alley from thugs, since they were inexperienced.
Why is it that in argument like these, when one friend starts saying a bunch of truly hurtful things to the other just to make them feel bad, and as soon as the other friend say something just as hurtful they wanna get mad and start a fist fight like Barry just did and Diggle did in arrowverse
batman has been brought down several times, broken back, heart attack, old age, got his but kicked by sane joker. this was in ppoor taste to me. batman never would have flinched like that, hes not emotionless but he knew barry was coming for him and hes stared down scary and sudden things without fear before
@@clevernamerighthere9240 yea...stared then down with a plan. Here, he's completely and utterly helpless. If Barry wanted batman woudve just been a stain. And it's precisely that that makes this perfect. It's a well deserved humbling. And a reminder to his readers that he's not invincible
@@renutus1580 Neither is Barry.. Give Batman a lil prep time, and Mr. Freeze's cold gun stored in Batmans' arsenal would have Barry begging for mercy.. lol. these moments happen for all characters.
@@renutus1580 Batman knows that Barry will never do that, and so does the reader, that's why this kind of scenes never work unless the writer is actually committed to a conflict.
Prep time Batman < Prep time any other Justice Leaguer Batman with prep time is overrated. Not fair to say Batman has prep time but everyone else doesn't. If heroes like Flash, Wonder Woman, Superman prepared for like years, they would've stomped on Batman. This coming from a Batman fan.. for those that didn't see my pfp and username..
Batman has been shown to see himself INFERIOR TO SUPERMAN at one point. He couldn't even bring himself to invite Clark to his wedding. No shame to that, the guy is human too, but that proves my point. He IS human. Batman without prep time would lose to any other Justice League member. If he is gonna have prep time.. well, at least ensure that the other heroes get their own prep time too, otherwise it's just dishonest and cheating.
![Old Bruce Wayne vs Barry Allen | THE FLASH [4k, HDR]](/img/n.gif)
Barry's frustration becomes much more understandable and sad when we consider the fact that, during the time he was dead, he witnessed as a ghost many great events that almost destroyed the Universe, being unable to help his friends. In fact, this is perfectly depicted in the novelization of "Crisis on Infinite Earths", in which the spirit of Barry, who acts as the main narrator, helplessly witnesses all the tragic events surrounding the elimination of the Multiverse, being the death of Kara (with whom he once shared an intimate afternoon) and the uncertainty of what will happen to Iris what hurts him the most. The epilogue of the book in which Barry's spirit ends up in the future, sees an elderly Iris advising their grandson Bart (who inherited his grandfather's super speed), and realizes his time has finally ended and must now go to Heaven is just heartbreaking
@@inkredibill6352 what?
Does this Barfy even remember Crisis?
You just made me feel totally validated in the way I felt about that GN.
Man uncle Ben said with great power comes great responsibility.....I guess Barry didn't get that message especially when superman was being a bully I guess its flash's turn now huh?
@@inkredibill6352 ah I see, you are the kind of man-child who only sees the “Super” and not the Hero
As much as I like Batman, I really like him getting checked once in a while. He doesn't ALWAYS have the answers, & Flash reminded him.
He doesn't have them. He plays it by ear.
Its only fair for Batman to take the L once in a while
Flash just seems dumb he’s not capable of having a argument without threatening violence and can’t even go through with that
@@killmonger5097 spot on comment the fact that he is has to use his speed ability to threaten Batman is pretty dumb. And if you look at Batman dude was not even scared of him when he tells him that but it’s because Batman knows these heroes can one shot him anytime but they won’t that’s the thing. When flash doesn’t understand what Batman is trying to say he goes to using force on a human with no powers lol. That’s like bringing a knife to a gunfight Batman can easily tell him he can paralyze him before he can do anything to him as well but he doesn’t I think this shows Batman character to be more evolved because he knows he can stop these heroes but he doesn’t say to there face because he doesn’t have to.
@@coldshot1611 you batman fanboys are something else, it Doesn't matter if batman is or isn't scared of Barry using feigned violence to prove a point. What matters is that batman truly is not the effective character everyone believes him to be. Remember, he's only human and he will continue to fail his family and friends for the sake of a delusional moral code.
Let's be honest, if it was alfred instead of when Jason died, then batman wouldn't be too pussy enough to understand the true weight of being a hero. Remember the skin face joker comic when joker had the bat family by the balls or hell even INJUSTICE? THAT proves Barry's point. I understand batman wants to make things better but he better put his money where his mouth is. Because apparently fighting crime with traumatized teens is somehow the best way to save a city full if crime, don't make me laugh.
the panel with flash holding back a punch to batman is some of the best art ive seen from DC in a while
I literally thought to myself on that exact same frame how good of a job the artists did on this issue🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
That was high quality stuff!
sure. Haven't seen ones exactly like that 100 times before since something like this ALWAYS has to happen in superhero groups.....
The art here is inconsistent in some panels it looks alright but the next it looks bad, look at (1:19) Barry looks like a piranha.
@@brokenman58 I mean usually Batman has some bullshit anti flash gas it’s refreshing seeing the power respected one time
"The Old Barry died along with Wally West!"
Poor Barry. Just when his nephew finally came back after 5 years of oblivion, he lost him again. Losing numerous times someone who is like a son to you must be unimaginable
@@ooneybird27 I'm not a huge Flash fan or anything, but one of the best things about the Flash Family is that I doubt they would have the "whose the best" argument. I can see them having a "whose the fastest" conversation, for laughs, but they are such a wholesome and supportive lot I doubt they would even think to wonder which one was "best".
You mean like Batman has done with Robin?
I love the idea of Flash not taking shit from anyone, especially Batman. He evaded everything the Batcave threw at him. And could literally have killed Batman 100x in a second or less if he wanted to.
Hahaha this is the most stupid I've ever read Batman can take him down literally.Bruce killed Flash,for instant Bruce killed joker and became the Batman who laughs,the other time he killed flash it is when he took over Barry's body and became the Red Death.
And, Bruce grounded Flash,plus Catwoman Bat's lover whooped all flashes.
In injustice Bat's team in injustice universe Cat outsmarted him.
In flashpoint paradox universe Batman(Thomas Wayne) didn't give a shit about Barry and the Flash he whooped Barry's ass.
People knows that he (BATMAN [Bruce Wayne] ) has many plot armor and he is armped a guy who fell straight to Earth from outaspace and survived.
@@EthanFelixReignsYou said it yourself, plot armor is the only thing keeping batman on level with everyone else, anyone else with a brain knows batman can be anyone in the Justice leagues bitch If they really wanted to try (besides green arrow maybe)
@@EthanFelixReigns Batman has never truly taken him down until the Batman who laughs storyline. But if you think for 1 second that Batman would actually have a chance against someone who rewrite history with his speed, you have lost it. Flash can literally go back in every time line and kill Bruce as a child or at his peak. When Batman fought against Professor Zoom or Reverse Flash (look it up) he got his ass kicked. The only thing that saved Batman was time and the fact that he did not just CHOOSE to vibrant his hand through Batman's heart. That's the only reason why there is much more content and "contingencies" for a human being. He is the ONLY JL character that NEEDS IT to stay relevant. Supes, Flash, GL, MMH, WW can all speed blitz Batman out of existence if they chose to. The reason why they don't is because they are not assholes. And Batman is one and narcissistic as well.
@@grifo3310 hahahaha, hahahaha wow you must be that dumb flash shot killed Thwane with a gun anyone can kill the Flash and justice league members.Catwoman kicked the flashes' ass.
Batman the flashpoint gave flash a beat down,what if DC gives Deadpool's treatment by killing the entire universe like Tim Drake did,Batman has weaknesses so he exploit and he would use them.Supergirl kicked the son of Mars's ass.
Flash couldn't beat Kara Zor-El.
Your comment is irrelevant and I'm staying within the topic of discussion.
Flash took down the entire Justice league in alternate universe,and have you read comic book called Batman:Drown? Batman: Devastator
(#Batmandevastator , #Batman: Devastator comics) ?
Have you read comics where DC Trinity Superman mind controlled by the joker and Batman outsmarted Superman and wonderwoman.
Harley Quinn had beaten Wonderwoman and Superman.
Batman will burn Son of Mars like Superman did him.
It will depend on the writer's,Alfred whooped Superman's ass.
Batwoman whooped wonderwoman.
Superman with powers he is dangerous.
You are funny little man I won't take you serious doc.
@@funnelingspace9268 let me turn the table around the justice league members are Batman's bitches and side cheeks in towel of barbel Ras did Batman's job by taking down the justice league,and same BATMAN Killed joker and killed entire Justice league the most powerful beings ever.
People think bats is weak and can win with plot armor,he can win against them with or without plot armor, Harley Quinn had beaten the most powerful being wonderwoman,even Kate Kane beats wonderwoman
People forget that with how fast the flash can run, if he throws a pitch at you, he doesn't even need to hit you. He just has to stop midair and an air current wil send you flying. This implies that barry not only got close enough to bats, but simultaneousely had to slow himself down emough so he didn't send bat's flying with wind pressure
too many batman fans to acknowledge this.
@@MySUHIT was that necessary?
Not entirely true in the sense that he doesn't need to slow down.
That is for the same reason why he can move people at super speed without killing them, or why he doesn't make everyone around him deaf whenever he breaks the sound barrier or why he isn't throwing around wind blasts like you mentioned: The speedforce.
It was already explained in the comics that speedsters in the DC universe tap into the Speedforce, and through it they can generate a field of energy around them that contains the catastrophic consequences of breaking speed barriers.
I am pretty sure he can turn that field off if he wants, which is how he creates tornadoes sometimes, but he could just suddenly stop without slowing down and still not throw a wind blast because of the speed force.
flash has Super speed and standard police hand to hand compact training that's all ANYONE needs to take out batman
@@WardNightstone without prep
There's also this weird stuff happens all the time. Batman and Flash always ends up in this kinda messy situations more than anyone else. Flash trusts Batman WAY more than himself and always goes with his command. What we're seeing here is Flash's frustration, not his grudge against Batman. What Batman is talking about is already understood by Flash. Flash is just making Batman realize that this is a never ending battle and we gotta stop young people falling into this endless trap.
Batman 🤓 point is that how can we stop these people becoming like this when we're not stopping ourself at any point. When's Batman going to shutdown batcave and close down his cape? When's Superman going to stop flying to fight? When's Flash going to stop?
If they cannot afford the decision to stop their own selves, how can they stop others from any decision?
Flash's is mainly making the point that it's too much loss to bear and he cannot see anymore costume fighters go through such tragic losses like they have already gone through. The fact that Batman and the JLA are authoritive enough to ACTUALLY stop new heroes, since at their time no-one was there, so they were sort of forced to choose this life, while the new heroes are in different time.
Batman is only being democratic here and the big brother to Flash like he always do. And Flash is going through a loss and Batman is the only one he can open up to without minding slipping his tongue.
You know, like you open up to your parents when you have a burst while not caring about disrespecting them because you know they love you enough to give you this comfort without thinking about it.
Batman is always bashed by everyone and always being threatened to be one shotted. But every member of JLA highly respect his ideals and decision (like that "Batman owning Wonder Woman in the Robin matter" clip), that's why they live by his words. Only because they have no choice left.
It's more of Flash cry for help, than Flash owning Batman's ego.
Beautifully analyzed!
How dare you to analyze a story instead of taking it at face value!!!
yall open up to your parents?
The problem with the Flash's reasoning is that the absence of superheroes doesn't change the fact that supervillains exist. If there was never another single superhero created, there would eventually not be anyone to stop the supervillains. Who would stop Darkseid without someone equally as powerful to stop him? There are beings that pose existential threats that demand the existence of a force that can oppose it.
Actually Barry, we dont fail them. The writers just wont let us rest and put us against ridiculous odds and see if it pans out and when it doesnt they say its a different universe. I can't out think what the writers say I think.
- Batman Probably
yeah, i kinda get tired of preachy writers. The best present both sides and let the audience decide, but far too many get on a soap box and preach half-thought ideas that haven't really survived a true argument.
@@michaelavery5618 Exactly thooo
I hear this argument every so often, but this is why I like Japan's industry with its Author-centered output a bit more, that idea being that "series can end when they need too"
Of course I like Spider-Man and Batman and The Flash continuing their adventures, but something has to give, otherwise it just looses itself
The problem is that Western Comics have brainrotted over half the audience into thinking that stories have to continue into infinity with the same exact heroes and villains over and over because that's how they market their product and expect it to make money and also use it as a content farm for their live-action movies.
So you can never have comics where the heroes actually explore the proper use of their powers and act on it to *finish the story* because people think that's inherently "boring" and without conflict, stakes, or struggles, or they're immediately relegated into Elseworlds. Even though there's a perfect model to draw from to create new stories: in real life there's enough resources and technology to solve most world crises, the real issue is that politically, someone in power benefits from resources being withheld.
So the comics could have the same exact conflict at hand, but Western Comics have also headfaked people into believing that they're "apolitical" even though there's a superhero literally named Captain America or they advertise that Superman stands for Truth, Justice, and the *American* way (give or take *A Better Tomorrow*)- so as part of that headfake they make the conflict some cyclical Other Thing that can be physically punched into submission, yet another plot where the heroes fail to communicate with each other and get into a fight, or preachy wishy-washy horseshit where the heroes talk big about an issue they can reasonably solve but never do anything about it because the writer is too afraid of defining whatever "A Better Tomorrow" or "American Way" actually is because it goes against their own interests.
To contrast, if you're a manga fan who wants to "Read about Son Goku", you start with Dragonball and go to Z and then either GT or Super, and Akira Toriyama and whoever else isn't worried about "Uhhhhhhhh, but wait, Goku has to fight Nappa and Raditz again for the 50th time" or "Gohan's family is in danger but he won't tell Piccolo about it so they gotta fight before realizing who the actual bad guy is.... Again!” or whatever, and ultimately the story ends with the Earth finally being at peace with a statue of Goku built in memorial of him, or he goes off to train a kid to be the next generation of hero.
Essentially, yes. There have been times when I've read comics and thought 'C'mon, give these guys a fricking break, will ya?'
Barry's frustration is palpable, but Barry's too distraught to even consider that Batman's right: the kids choose their path. If they don't get support in the form of mentorship and advice and training, it'd be the same as throwing a toddler at a pack of hungry wolves. Bruce knows this all too well because of Tim Drake, the kid who practically forced his way into being Robin.
“The cost of wearing these costumes is too much.”
“The cost of not wearing them is higher.”
A strong message!
But they have magic and technology beyond our means no? (Can't Zatanna and Constantine get rid of the curse on Gotham!?/ Can't Batman cure joker after getting his blood sample? Pretty sure a vial of untainted blood of his is somewhere in the city no? /Can't Martian ManHunter reads the minds of most enemies from earth to find out their evil Schemes and where their evil equipment and gear and resources are kept? Superman also has superhearing but things still happen in other places!? [I know comic logic lol] )
being ostracized by society because you are a naked vigilante might be too much even for the members of the Justice League
🤣 shit Supes got his from his dad so technically he don't know how much they cost.
Barry: The greatest trick the Batman ever pulled was Making people think he always has a plan
SO DAMN TRUE
He only doesn’t have a plan when it’s plot convenient.
Well tbh pre 52 batman always had a plan these new writers neutered batman hard these days
@@jasonborne238 He never managed a plan to keep Gotham safe or lock up his villains so they're not out on the street the very next day.
Was getting his back broken by Bane part of his plan too?
@SuperMontsta that was golden age batman first off secondly yeah he actually did manage to permanently decomission all crime in gotham in one storyline with Jason todd but was killed by superboy prime
It’s because he’s the Batman! 🦇
“I could hit you a hundred times before you could throw a single punch”
Just try and imagine that. Do you think you would even feel the individual blows? Or would your brain just go “Ayo when tf did we get hit by a gotdamn train?!?”
there's this scene in Jojo's Bizarre adventure where a guy rapidly punches another guy in stopped time. after time resumes, multiple holes appear and he just instantly became paralyzed. I suppose that's exactly what will happen to batman
I feel wed be alive then just keel over outta nowhere after our brains register all the impacts all at ounce lol
He'd have just spattered into a mess I think lol
@@parry3439 diooooooo
Not to mention how hard even one punch would be. Imagine a punch moving at light speed hitting you while ur basically standing still.
Loved it. Remember reading this when the issue first came out and I love those reminders that Batman at the end of the day is a normal man. More than half the league will embarrass him without his prep time. This coming from a Batman fan.
He’s destroyed the whole league multiple times and he’s only human
@@killmonger5097 With prep.
@@Danneflum1997 and he’s only human
@@killmonger5097 reality plot armor batman favorite DC
Justice league Wins For Logic
@@killmonger5097 and a lot i mean a lot of plot armor because he is the cash cow of dc comics the one that sales the most that's why he is ridiculously strong
I agreed with Bruce on this. You can't stop the kids from choosing the superhero path, they'd just do it behind ur back or worse leave to do it on their own. Best you can do, like any parent is equip them for any trial they will come against.
I mean, ppl think that bats, green arrow and all the others with kid sidekicks, that they're being forced to do this, they all have the self-awareness to walk away, and at this point they all have and work independently anyway.
Crazy how the emotional orphan is the best dad in DC…. after Jonathan Kent and Alfred, of course.
Ah yes. What choice does Batman have other than letting minors engage in knuckle breaking combat in the most crime ridden city on Earth? There couldn't possibly be a better way to promote self-healing, right?
@@L-eye-t tell me a better way for self healing. Dick would have killed his parents murderers and continue the path of crime , Jason would have been a theif. Think back on all the storylines of Batman and see how many times his family saved innocent lives and even Batman himself. You think bats can take care of crime in Gotham all by himself?
@@tanime_man6535 Do I...really need to answer this question? Does therapy not exist in the DC Universe? Maybe a change in scenery so they don't have to live a desaturated lifestyle in the most drab location in the world? Perhaps talking out their problems with people who had similar experiences to offer camaraderie or a better understanding of their situation and how to move forward? Building strong relationships with people that could even qualify as a second family willing to fill the void in their heart with kindness? These solutions exist in our world yet Batman's obsession with bludgeoning thugs within an inch of their lives is the ONLY effective coping mechanism available?
@@L-eye-t wow therapy? 😂 You really think schools and hospitals are gonna last in a city like Gotham. If Batman and his family was not there i can at least recall a dozen times joker might have blown up a hospital or a school. What's a use of therapy or education when there is no city to protect? These villains would have destroyed Gotham long ago if not for these vigilantes.
Flash is the Spider-Man of the dc universe to me. Batman’s already writing up six contingency plans for the flash🗿.📝
7 for fun
flash has a milly for batman
6 plans that won’t even work.
@@feterunner eh who know one of them consist of using Superman (probably)
@@kye1814 He’ll just screw iris.
I love when they remind you Batman is a human and has human limitations really makes his character all the more impressive even tho he never stands a chance against like Flash or WW or anyone like that he still tries his best
Wally was more than a partner he was like a son to him. Wally considered Barry as a father figure
I mean technically that's his nephew
@@UnlimitedIvory yh ik 😂
They always have hero’s flex their superiority over Batman until they actually try to kill him in which his plot armor kicks in and he defeats them
Except he doesn't.
That happens for all street tiers tho hulk with Spider-Man Green Latern and Green Arrow tho there was a time thor completely destroyed iron man
@@alfred493 except he does.. try actually reading the comics.. lol
@@SteveWilsonComic-Man your poster name is ironic. You’re actually reading here how Flash can easily fuck Batman up and you still think Batman would win. You’re denying your own fucken eyes!
@@SteveWilsonComic-Man lol "if they tried to kill batman" they don't have to try
Superman can literally breath and he'll turn into a bag of bones
Flash would end him in an attosecond
the words when he got home about wallys obituary had me in tears.
The flash is always there for everyone..... but who... who is there for him?
⚡Super Flash!⚡
“heroes will save evey one else, but who saves the heroes?”
In Batman: Dark Victory, Bruce absolutely refuses to let Dick join his mission. Dick was hellbent on joining though. He kept crossing the boundaries Bruce put up, and Bruce couldn't stop him. It ended with Dick saving Bruce's life and making his debut as Robin, without permission. Bruce gives in and decides to train him.
And then he worked to ensure that Dick never took the same path that he did.
Another great example is Harper Rowe. She actively sought out the Batman and even after his multiple attempts to stop her from getting involved-- including one where he threw her through a wall and told her to stay out of his way, for which he later apologizes-- She still continues to be involved, right up until Bruce decides to train her and make her Bluebird.
Yet another example: Steph and Tim.
Like, the only way to stop the kids from going out and being heroes in-universe would be to lock them up. Tie Dick down with chains, keep Wally or Bart in an anti-meta pod so they can't use their powers. That would be more damaging than teaching them how to properly do what they want to do. Locking them up might even turn them into villains or make them vulnerable to exploitation. They aren't recruiting children. They're taking the kids who are already doing this and making it safer for them. Of course they're still going to die. Barry and Bruce have been dead or thought dead multiple times themselves.
I liked the music variation in this one! Thanks for always giving us great content.
Batman putting on his cowl quicker than the flashes attempt is impressive lol
That's because he was probably already in process of it before the video started
Flash is literally amoung one of DC most powerful and broken characters the guy has the power to go back in to create new timelines and erase old ones and so much more
TBH it was revealed that Flash didn't do Flashpoint paradox, Doctor Manhattan did.
@@SteveWilsonComic-Man actually when Barry went to fix Flashpoint, Dr Manhattan uses it for his own gain
@@barryallen9625 no, Dr.Manhattan caused all of it he had went back to the ORIGIN of D.C. and saw that it all stemmed from Golden Age Superman, the ENTIRE Multiverse does, and the explosion of Krypton is kind of the starting point.
Convergence revealed a LOT of shit.
It takes more than Flash or Superman is actually capable of to alter time in D.C., everytime Silver Age Superman tried, he never could change the outcome of what happens that he was trying to prevent.
Minus that movie where he reversed time, lmfao.
But, no, that was revealed in Convergence to all be Dr.Manhattan, even when Anti-Monitor devoured alkost all of the D.C. Multiverse, that too was apparently Dr. Manhattan's doing.
EVERY SINGLE MAJOR CRISIS THAT ALTERED D.C. is Dr.Manhattan...
dudes OP.. lol
He easy mode owned the strongest D.C. heroes all at once.
The ONLY one he couldn't just shrug off was Superman. Because he had been trying to ERASE Superman from the Multiverse and he tried many different ways of doing it, from changing the time, and location where Superman's ship landed, he tried with and without Clarks adoptive parents.
He tried even preventing the destruction of Krypton, and he could not, it ALL stems from that moment and all Manhattan could do was throw his hands up in the air and undo all of the damage he had done trying to erase Superman.
This is similar to when Emperor Joker couldn't remove Batman from existence without removing himself too, since Batman is the sole reason Joker even exists.
Same thing for why Dr.Manhattan could not erase Supes.
No matter what he did, Superman always became Superman, one way or the other.
And he always came into confrontation at the "end of time" against Superman and most of the time he had no idea if he destroys everything, or if Suoerman Destroys him.
Turns out Superman talks him out of it typical Superman fashion, and Dr.Manhattan undoes everything he did, and restored the Infinite D.C. Multiverse, thus making all Realities(universes) in D.C. canon again.
And in a way? DR.Manhattan also gave Quantum Superman an actual origin story by the end of Convergence.
@@SteveWilsonComic-Man so it wasn't Barry that changed the entire timeline by preventing his mother's death ?
@@barryallen9625 It's weird I know, Dr.Manhattan like Mr.Mxy sits outside of reality doing this shit, he exists and see's and experiences multiple if not infinite realities and timelines simultaneously.
He arranged for these things to happen and even killed Zoom for knowing too much.. whom said when he was found dying burning in blue fire...
"I..saw..GOD.."
Dr.Manhattan at this point seems to be like The Source in the way he works.
The two of them have more in common than ever gets explored but it was a low blow for them to bring up the kids deaths against each other
Yeah, you should never bring up dead kids, that’s a fact 😔
Agreed bad writing all around here
@@Lynellf I don't think that's bad writing, I think it's just a character trait.
@@Tucker619 yeah because it's 100% in Bruce's nature to say something like that to Ultimately end the argument 9/10
@@legacy9304
Disclaimer: This was Pre New52, Pre Rebirth.
One of the best confrontations I have seen with Flash was him showing how he could throw a punch at near light speed.
I don't know the context of this scene. But to be honest this seems like it should be labelled "Flash Berates and Then Threatens Batman."
Basically, without spoiling the story, the JL created a sanctuary where an AI, which acts a therapist, helped heroes who go through trauma and have major stress from their job, but tragedy happened when someone murdered some of the heroes, Wally included, and Barry is accusing Batman who might be partially responsible for it.
@@tsnoob4669 Ahhhh. Okay, I actually have that graphic novel. And considering how that sanctuary was run, I honestly can't blame Barry! 😄
@@atomicgator5207 if that's the same comic I think off this definitely goes very much wrong since he's berating batman and talking how wally west shouldn't have become a hero and he's right because the whole murders spoilers
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Are done by wally west
@@atomicgator5207 Barry was being irrational to be honest, he thought Gotham Girl, the person in the tube in this video, was responsible for the heroes murder. Just because she has Kryptonian powers and speed. Thinking she's fast enough to kill Wally West.
the only reason he threatened batman was because they were insulting each other, batman simply said something that made flash snap first
Context: This comic happened during the Heroes in Crisis event, don't remember which, honestly.
What happened was the JL created a sanctuary that provides therapy sessions for heroes, through an A.I., that would help elevate their stress and trauma from their work. Then a murder happened that led to the death of a couple of heroes, Wally West included, but the JL don't know who did it.
So, Barry started to suspect that it was Gotham Girl, due to having Kryptonian powers, which were given to her by Batman, since she should at least be fast enough to catch all the murdered heroes off guard, Wally included. And started to irrationally accuse Batman for sending her to the sanctuary, because both of them are aware of her history of being mentally unstable after the death of her brother, Gotham, and felt that Batman was partially responsible for the heroes death.
As it turns out, Barry was wrong.
Batman did give her powers
@@davantebarbain3216 Yes, that's what I said, Batman did give her powers.
@@tsnoob4669 lol i meant he didn't that was Psycho pirate
@@davantebarbain3216 No, Batman gave her Kryptonian powers with the Platinum Kryptonite, the one that Superman gave to him in case if he wants Kryptonian powers.
@@tsnoob4669 when was that dafuq she had powers from the jump
Berry just described the life of a super hero
Feels kind of uncalled for Barry getting angry when he was the one poking at Bruce's sore spots first.
thats what im saying, i understands where it came from but it shouldnt be treated like hes in the right
Batman's delusional if he thinks hes saving anyone, his own existence perpetuates everything he fights. Barry's realization is existential and batman can't empathize with it. He is right but it hurts all the same
@@gangjira I mean, in Gotham sure, but dude has saved the multiverse and the planet like a million times.
@@gangjira But that's the thing.
Batman's only human, so to achieve things, he needs help. And help requires getting others involved. To get people involved, due to protecting his own identity and just general ability to be a superhero and fund/support his superhero work batman needs to get help from people he trust. To trust people, and them to trust him, they need to be close.
And therefore that creates the problem/weak spot for Batman, and any hero really, who decides to have people they care for. And this doesn't even need to apply for superheroes with people they work with like Batteam, Alfred, fellow superheroes and sidekicks. This applies to anyone any superhero decides to care for- which is literally inescapable unless the superhero decides to go hermit and not have a normal civillian life AND they cut all contacts with any and all friends and families they've ever had.
I can't think of any real hero who works alone and has no civillian/close family or friends they hold. You have to be a complete monster who does everything for the cause to be able to dedicate your life to only saving people. Not even Batman does that, as he at least has lovers, family, friends and even a son- and Batman's probably one of the craziest for the superhero cause. Thing is even then, if there was one, I can't think of any real hero who even if they did work alone/hermit I doubt they would also be super-powerful that they never need help. I mean Superman's plenty powerful but has been susceptible to many things, or even flat out faced enemies just flat out stronger than him.
Barry's problem is he doesn't want to put people he loved at risk. But that is impossible as there is no character out there who is super-powerful enough to never need help so that they don't ever need to work in a group, they also can't ever want any close relationships and they most definitely need to want to also be a good guy.
The closest character to this are the Presence, The One Above All etc. types of characters but even then these guys are never good guys but just in the middle.
Barry crying about this is like a Billionaire crying about the sinking of his yacht. Flash is one of the strongest characters in...fiction. He complains about not being able to save his loved ones, but I really couldn't think of many characters out there who I would have in my corner to save me. I would genuinely pick Flash over Superman as Flash can get to me multitudes of times faster than Superman could. Imagine being Batman and having Lobo or Reverse Flash after your family. I would genuinely be shitting my pants. At least if I was Superman I know I can...you know just show up and do my best. What's Batman gonna do? Run them over with the batmobile?
I love Flash but he was definitely in the wrong here. That being said, that's why I like Flash and Batman's interaction here. Batman fully understands all of this cause he is used to having his loved ones in danger- he literally has the most famous side kick and butler in fiction. He understands putting them in the danger they are in, is necessary to keep others and even themselves away from danger as it's better to be able contribute to defending yourselves and others than hope someone does it for you.
That's the thing. Greif is irrational, sometimes people will say terrible things in that state and sometimes it's better to let them vent and appolgise about it afterwards.
Like, Batman immediately knew after he said that he had made a misstep. Even if he was in the right, that wasn't the time to snipe at Barry, even if he was being an arse.
Barry and Wally always give Batman the sickest burns.
The art is really good, but I can't stop seeing that face Batman puts as more of disgust than fear, and that's pretty funny.
Man music can truly pull emotion from your bones.
It makes me happy to hear that ! Always what I want.
Fans of seeing Batman humbled just to be humbled are not really any better than fans that believe Batman can't be beaten or wrong.
I'm not humbled by this this is an emotional dispute not a fight
@@blastphantomgames6369 I'm referring to some of the comments.
@@laneneely1077 then you're wrong either way considering how often Batman is shown to own the JL just for the sake of it, meanwhile it's extremely rare to find the opposite
i love the fact the bat cave counter measures go into action the min flash activates his powers, so batman isnt even cocky enough to wait til an opp or a recognized threats attacks; he understand what a disadvantage he is at..he cant allow any room for a threat attacking him.. and u know after seeing firsthand how his countermeasure "slowed" but cldnt really neutralize the flash..u know he gonna upgrade
great art! I miss those days...
Love how people are like BATMAN ONLY WINS WITH PREP but its considered not fair to say other super heros only win with powers.
Cause they actually have superpowers. Batman is just a nobody in tje grand scheme of things.
Batman has every option to go get superpowers and or magic he just does not go that route
Batman really be holding back aswell
The fact moments of Batman being manhandled by a member of the Justice League have become rare in recent times is sad.
nah man, thats going to get just as old as batman winning against impossible odds. the outcome whatever it may be just needs to make sense for what theve established. no bias.
You sound a like bitter fanboy that’s mad Batman is the face of dc
@@Axel-ye8ttNah, he's just tired of the plot armor.
@@Axel-ye8tt so your trying to tell me that because Batman is the most popular hero he should be able to fight on par with Amazons, Lanterns, and Kryptonians?
I'm indeed mad Batman is the face of dc that's supposed to be superman or the team but they keep fumbling everyone else so he has to be the face
One thing I’ve never understood about Flash is that he’s able to turn at a 90 degree angle at high speeds. If you were running at your top speed at a fraction of that, you still need to run at an arc to keep the momentum going. Look at the way baseball players round bases.
When in doubt about Flash's powers, speed force. That explains all the ways he breaks the laws of physics, un- ironically.
Uh...something, something, speed force, bio-electrics, comic logic.
Option A: His complete control over his molecular movement (which allows him to 'vibrate' through solid objects) means that he can just apply force in a new direction as if he were hit by an object with sufficient inertia to cause hard angular turns.
Option B: He pirouettes, imparting sufficient angular momentum to cause the hard angular turns.
Option C: It is just a work of fiction, don't think about it too hard.
@@christianboehlefeld5168 that option C is always boring. At least, when fans try to think about what happens or how something happens, it shows their interest over the fiction even if it's fiction. Though I think Option A makes the most sense
@@christianboehlefeld5168 believe me, this isn’t keeping me up at night lol. Just an observation to promote an exchange of ideas.
I don’t know man this comic is too emotional with this music lol, this was a great video!
all you have to do is find a special someone to whisper "orehrepus a eb tnod" in their ear.
i dont know this just makes batman more badass than anything. flash is basically flexing his powers against a normal human to "demand" respect. it makes him look shallow.
Yep! But don’t sleep on the flash. He on some occasions, put Wonder Woman in her place. One comic of them fighting, i underestimated Flash.😳. Makes me realized that ALL superheroes hold back
@@devionewilkins8903 yea bro. flash has always been on the top tier but he just doesnt look cool or badass here.
Y’all stay 🍆 riding Plotman.
Flexing his powers? Do you see him doing this casually every time Batman is around??
He only did it this time to show the Bat that for all of his plans, genius and most importantly his whole demeanour that he constantly has making him seem like he's the one who's the most traumatized and the one who deals with the most shit at all times, he is just another person like everyone else (in the league or otherwise) and therefore he should watch his mouth, especially since he is a normal man compared to the rest that are super powered.
@@vaggelismarkantonis8710 the hell are you mad about? your paragraph just makes the flash look more shallow here.
Wait, they saved the multiverse 11 times? Weird. I thought it would be more
That they remember. DC loves its reboots
same
It feels like it's at least 20 times lol
Great art in this one
That was... emotional.
A lot of the justice league have this sibling dynamic. I would say while Batman and Superman feel like brothers around the same age, Flash feels like a younger brother. Not because he's foolish. The opposite. Because everyone underestimates him. I don't mean in terms of raw power. But Bruce definitely felt like the older sibling who felt so strongly like he knew better. Source: i am the elder sibling
And you know batman. It's not easy to get him to have an emotional or irrational outburst. But with family it's more common. Especially accidentally going to far and hurting eachother. That only happens when you're close. Because then you can't brush it off like "You don't know anything about me." You know they're close because despite how guarded Bruce is, he took off his mask to speak his most emotional words. When Flash mentioned Alfred and Robin i don't think it was malicious to hurt Batman. It was to get him to take what he's saying seriously. But Bruce responded with words that intended to hurt in a fit of emotion. I dunno, it just reminded me of my experience as an adult still deeply connected to her little brother. Ignore my over analyzing
People complaining about whether Batman is OP or could get his ass whooped are missing the point. His character is supposed to represent the absurdity that one human could be so powerful despite human limitations, and that his brain is his biggest strength. That’s why he is written to always have plans and backup plans upon backup plans, because if the writers didn’t give him that then He’d get his shit kicked in.
I mean he could just go the iron man route
@@blastphantomgames6369 Iron Man's plot armor is literally his armor. What can it do? Whatever nanites or whatever BS power source says it can. Flash's plot armor is the speedforce. Flash ignores all physics so what can he do? Whatever the speed force or his writer says he can.
@@Ralathar44 and they be having the flash sell the bag horrendously
Gorgeous drawing
They both have points and that is what makes this a truly hard argument to have
I mean, Flash just insults Batman constantly here. He insults Bruce and his failures. But when it's reversed after Flash went 1 step too far (you don't bring up dead Robins) Flash immediately resorts to violence and threats? Guess he can dish it out but can't take it.
Shoot. Spider-Man do that mess too. A good example Is the Ultimate Spider-Man Comic Series that ran From the Early 2000s. Spidey was roasting everyone. And people barely could say anything back, he’ll just drop them😅😂
He stopped short of punching batman's head a hundred times between eye blinks. If you call that violence, I dunno what you'd call actually following through.
@@alpham3767 it’s literally the equivalent of a guy insulting another guys family and guy number 2 responds the same way and first just pills out a gun and says ” i could shoot you if i wanted to”. I dunno i think that’s a pussy move
@@alpham3767 violence aswell?
@@alpham3767 In my opinion if you threats to beat the shit up of an old lady, but don't do it, your still a violent person, you still did an violent act, just not an physical one
I thought i see cool debate in comment section, you know, about THE STORY, about flash and batman, two heroes conflict, for example, Barry did the right thing threatening his friend, almost family? but nooo, that always the same.
BATMAN BEAT FLASH PREP TIME
NOOO BATMAN IS SHIT HES HUMAN AND PLOT ARMOR.
Seriously dc fans need to growing up, all these years it's the same fuckin debate, who beats who, just go watch dragon ball or smth.
True😂 people are acting like power scalers with no real reason to. It wasn't even a fight. If it was, this behavior would be reasonable.
@@NatrixNate irregardless the debate is inevitable 😅😅 so you two need to find a room together just to escape reality a lil bit😅😅
Another thing if batman is apart of the JL don't ever doubt him buddy you can't join a power league without having some typa _______ well you fill in the line
"just go watch dragon ball or smth" got me good, have a like for that based remark
Hey this video was really well done.
Good work.
What do you think of Tom King’s Batman? It seems like he’s quite a polarizing version.
Everyone gansgta untill Flash gets serious
People talk about plot Armour for batman like all these heroes didn't gain their powers through plot 😂😂😂
What a stupid comment 🤦🏻♂️
Batman without plot armor
Is the same one in all his comic runs
The song was a good choice. Really set the mood well.
Why does the music fit so well oh my god
Batman didn’t even flinch
Didnt even have time to ;)
Bro he couldn't even react to flash💀
@@slattslattslatthe literally did. he sighed and pulled his mask down lol
Because he knew barry won't hit him. Barry is that kind of guy...
@@zandisiwetayi9977 If Flash wanted he would not even have the time to.
I get so tired of this overly righteous behavior. Character's feelings are hurt so now they have to go around and tear into anyone unlucky enough to be in their path. It's just more Hero teardown writing from hack artists that only peddle one trick pony standards throughout their careers.
- We do good for the World
: But at what cost?!?!
- There are people alive today that wouldn't be if we didn't act!
: But Bad Things Still Happen
- Bad things are always going to happen regardless of our presence, but we make a difference in the lives we save
: But if we didn't act we wouldn't have such tough lives
- Life is going to be hard regardless of having the ability to do something about it or not
: So then why bother with it all!?
...and there it is, folks. The Apathy virus is pushed out there to once again help to demoralize readers into thinking nothing matters and there's no reason to think otherwise. After all, if your heroes/mythos just parrots what the mainstream media pushes, then it makes it all the easier to condition people not to dream, not to act, not to care.
Bruce didn't even wanna fight he just had a comeback to some disrespect
That went south so fast...
i mean if he is gonna be rude towards batman he better be prepared to take some insults back, the fact he instantly gets aggresive when insulted back makes him look like a kid in this comic, not really showing what respect is to batman here but ok i guess
I suspect batman did have an option but probably didn't use it. Batman knows the flash is grieving but he also knows the flash is not the type to kill his own allies or friends in rage fueled emotions so he held back.
Don't leave us hanging, show us the rest!
We need a pt.2 we need a pt.2 oh God please we need a pt.2 😮😊
1:52 "Another dead Robin"
To be honest, I think that was a really cheap shot for Barry in order to goad Batman. If it wasn't for the fact that Jason, Stephanie, and Damian were alive again at this point, I'm sure Batman would have unleashed all his rage towards him, just like he did to Dick when the first Robin blamed him for Jason's death after being notified about the tragic event
*I'm Sure batman would've beaten him to the core*
The Flash: "I'm not like you".
The Flash saying I'm not like you, is the Flash literally saying I could've killed you 100 TIMES OVER before you even throw your first punch....I understand batman is GOATED. But yall can quit acting like he's unbeatable. The Flash in this very Instinctive proved his countermeasures don't mean shit going full speed. So batman fans need to stop foreal
@@BigReuben97 Dude, calm down. I am not saying Batman would have destroyed him. Just that he would have fiercely attacked Barry in other circumstances
@@OptimusMaximusNero the batcave is the best circumstances though...
@@BigReuben97 maybe Batman would take a new gadget out of his butt to slow flash x10000000 times so he could kick his balls or something
@@morgotdoidao Nano machines, Son!
2:01 Poor choice of words Batman.
Berry should not have insulted Bruce.
@@omega8851 Aye True, But let's not forget that Bruce played with fire on that one moment.
@@ErickGonzalez-yv1gc how do you expect him to react when barry throws dead robins around. that’s not easy for bruce at all. at least bruce wasn’t the aggressive one here
@@talentroller4413 both are at fault.
@@ErickGonzalez-yv1gc i guess
I like how you're using the Lisa dying background music for the video
That line about Robins was really savage.
I love watching moments where the writers finally take off the Batmans massive plot armor and give him some much needed humiliation
He don't need
I like when Batman doesn't have plot armor. But fuck Barry, he acts like a dick and blames Batman for everything and when Batman snaps, threatens him by flexinng his superpowers.
What an asshole.
There is no humiliation. Batman is human. He could die to any number of super powered threats. That's what makes him Batman. When written poorly he can definitely have plot armor though. Similarly though the Flash ALWAYS has plot armor, because he breaks physics so "something something speedforce" lets him apply, not apply, or change physics whenever he wants. How strong flash is, how fast, how vulnerable, how they are going to mangle physics today? It's all writer dependent. Whatever they say goes and he can just plot armor his way out of anything just like Batman. Both are good characters so long as you put your epeen away though.
I feel like people are missing the point, all of Batman failures are something Bruce's could had stopped at one point of another.
While Wally disappearance was something out of Barry's control as the whole universe forgot he existed.
So like stop meat glazing Bruce because most of league could folded him, if they really wanted too.
I also didn't read it as Barry calling out Bruce's failures, but giving valid reasons why constantly making new heroes is bad for those people. Bruce refused to acknowledge Barry's point and instead threw Wallys death in his face
1 death? Also how could he stop Jason’s death?
Yeah never got the point behind Batman. The only way a human can compete in a universe like this is if the writers say so. Aside from high intelligence, something most of the JL members have, he has nothing of true value aside from a seemingly infinite amount of money and cool gadgets. Compared to other heroes, he just seems obsolete if the writers don't make him seemingly unbeatable
He has ruthless aggression
@@rustyshackleford5288 ngl Batman don't work in justice league, should've make him the Nick fury of justice league if they want Batman in justice league that much
"But I'm not you." is crazy.
Whoever wrote is, is dangerously close to making DC have good characters again.
Cool, but now can you post one of Superman embrassing this fraud as well? I recommend Hush, Superman #210, and Tales of the DC Universe Online: legends.
You got it!!!
This is exactly why Batman had contingency plans Flash can’t even have a argument without threatening violence
lol facts
Good point! He lost his temper unjustly.
U think a contingency can stop the flash 😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@clevernamerighthere9240 a contingency can't stop the flash
Stop playing 💀😂
@@18savage11 Catwoman koed flash so yeah I do lol
It’s commonly known that Batman has a contingency plan to stop every Justice League member but my favorite comic book fact is the his plan to stop the Flash is to literally just cripple him.
Apparently his plan for Plastic Man used to be 'freeze him'. Then it became 'Pray he never goes rogue'.
Barry : "Oh yeah, prep this"
Batman needs to be put in his place like this many times. This version of Batman that always have a plan for everything. I hate it… mostly for it is not a good story and kind of a copout for real story telling (I had that planned ten years ago etc) … but also because of all the powers that all the heroes have this human have the most impossible to have. No one can plan this much. It simple is not possible.
In a world with people that can walk faster than a flying bullet before it bounces off someone else's chest and gets grabbed out of thin air and crushed by a transparent green hammer, do you really want to say any power at all is "the most impossible to have"? lol
We're taking comics toooooo seriously nowadays desiring something totally fictional to become more realistic because of how much realism has been added to comics over the years to make them more immersive. But lets be honest. If Batman's abilities made more sense he'd been dead before he even got a chance to put on a cape! 😂
His impossible abilities are meant to be as equally impossible as the other heroes. None of it is supposed to be possible. That's what makes the fantasy entertaining.
@@hugejackedman3447 I surely do. And why should I care what you write about taking it to seriously. I am just discussing it… if you can not seperate that from taking it to seriously it is your problem. In a world with fantasy objects and superpowers and there are many of such books, films, and comics it is for me important to have the effect of suspension of disbelief still in play. Or why should I care at all. Probably what you call taking it to seriously.
And it is also what I do like. I like when Batman has his limitation and work like a detective. Such comics like Alan Moores comic when Superman got attacked ”in the the man who has everything”.
It is a great comic and Batman works from the sidelines with Robin and he has no illussion about his role in this situation. He needs to wake up Superman who is put in a dreamstate situation by an alien. Batman is well aware that he has no chance what so ever in this kind of fight. But he is trying to understand the situation and work out what is wrong with Superman. Wonderwoman though go straight in to battle. This makes the situation feels more pressed. Batman has to solve this problem or he will die and wonderwoman in the end as well because she is weaker than the enemy. That is the way one should use Batman. To make a story more exciting because he simple is not at par with his friends in strength. But that on the other hand is his strength in storytelling.
But to me they destroyed that when they went another direction. And it does not add up. All those silly powers I can buy. This is not reality in any kind of way. But to me a human should be a human with human limitations, And DC just like to much the underdog defeating every one else. And unfortunatly when they done that a million times he is no longer the underdog. And then it is just silly. At least to me.
Realistically Batman is indeed a detective however he has oracle for that. On top of that realistically Batman technically shouldn't be human anymore between the magic and more importantly he knows how some people got their superpowers he would just have to recreate it.
@@hurmur9528 You took that a bit toooo much as a criticism when it was just a general statement about public perception. At no point did I imply you specifically were taking something too seriously. Notice I said "WE'RE" meaning myself included so why would and how could you take that personally?
That said, you're entitled to like whatever you like. My initial question was meant with a lil facetiousness as if you notice I was making fun of the absurdity of comic tropes to which my point was nothing should be unbelievable if any bit of fantasy is acceptable. If we can accept aliens that get hurt by shiny green rocks why can't we accept a human with a brain that works like a supercomputer? lol
And again you have every right to like what you do and have an opinion of your own but it's a legitimate question as it questions our expectations of something that is supposed to be fantasy. In other words, why are we demanding logic from something already illogical in the first place? It's like taking issue with Santa Claus not being black or latino or the Easter Bunny laying eggs.
But I do have to say one thing in opposition to your take on Batman: If he only did his best work from the sidelines solving things he'd just become a more ridiculous version of "The Question". If he's smart enough to solve the most pressing and most difficult matters then why wouldnt he be smart enough to develop strategies and contigencies to keep himself breathing against beings that could kill him with a single breath?
How the hell these topics are related? How Batman's plot armor related to their argument? They are talking about using children as superheroes and consequences from it. How Batman mistrusting his allies is related to usage of children?
I have a feeling writers decided to pull it out, just to make Barry's rant more "valuable" than it really is.
In reality Barry does nothing but insults Batman for 2-3 minutes, tells about "prep time", then throws "dead Robin", and when Batman finally snaps and throws single "Forgot existance", Flash immedeately wents into violence and flexes his superpowers to a simple human. What a dick.
I don't like Batman, but if "putting him in place" is doing this bs, I would be on his side.
The real reason why Batman has contingency plans - he was an attosecond from being turned into ground chuck by the Flash. The anti-Flash turrets weren't even touching him.
Is that even anti Flash turret tho?
Anti-Flash Turret?
@fabisonsouza6774 The Bat Computer sensed that Barry was getting angry and engaged the proper protocols. So yes, I'm going Batman '66 and calling the guns "The Emergency Anti-Flash Bat Turrets." I said what I said.
@@Skaramine This isn't Bat Cave defense protocols against every threat and not against just Flash? I don't think "green shoots" are made against Flash.
@@Skaramine since its green and against fast opponent I thought it was anti supes bullet
nice vid.
i understand this is just a comic but...this is deep and somehow i can relate from both sides of the fence
Barry likes proving that he's better than Bruce, but Batman is dug in realist and obsessively cautious and pragmatic. He's the one most aware that everything he does has consequences.
The Flash's have a chronic "I can fix it" syndrome and everyone pays for it with their very existence.
batman not killing the joker and letting him kill more people is somehow not worse? Ok.
@@rjanyday5668 that argument can be made for any comic boo character that doesn't kill their villains lol
I rather keep trying to fix the world then stay in a status quo cat and mouse game cause 10% chance I do fix the world
@@terrancewright3358 The vast majority of comic villains aren't as bad as the Joker so no the argument can't be made.
@@DeathlordSlavik Yeah they are, they all kill innocent civilians on a larger scale than joker ever could because of their powers. for example, how long will spider man stand by and allow electro, sandman, doctor octopus, green goblin, venom, carnage kill innocents. or the x men allowing magneto to continue his genocide against the human race or red scrolls socialist regime, I can go on and on lol.
The one thing that I feel the most lacking in most of these comic book stories is a sense of respect and admiration among their comrades. That was not the case when the Justice League Unlimited series came out. Stories were coherent and the characters were mature. They respected and admire one another and yet accepted their flaws. And everyone was self-aware.
The stories now are so..."American"
They fight, they argue, they disagree and bicker as teenagers to the point of being okay with hurting one another. The old Justice League had such refined characters who acted so much like grown ups.
These type of inconsistencies is how a character falls off.
And I believe we saw the best versions of DC heroes in that Justice League Unlimited era.
“At least I didn’t forget my sidekick existed” feels out of character for Bruce to say
Really making the case for Cadmus in this video with how monstrous and inhuman Barry and Clark are shown.
Flash is lucky Batman allowed him to leave.
Uh, he just out-ran the cave's counter -measures and stopped short of killing batman. Learn to read
@@alpham3767 batman allowed it. He's batman.
@@jersydvl yeah batman allowed robin to die....bcos he's batman.
@Ahmad Adnan bane breaks backs. I break balls. Nobody here can even appreciate an obvious "because I'm batman" joke and it's really saddening
This is not even a fight
Batman was right about the whole argument. Even if Flash could punch him a hundred times before he threw one punch. Plus the Reverse Flash already showed us what Flash could do to Batman in under a minute.
Plus those parting words, "but I'm not you."
He's right of course Bruce didn't even try to hit him once, even though Barry was attacking him in anger. Barry was just hurt, projecting his own shortcomings onto Bruce to knock down so he could feel right. But neither were entirely wrong; the hero life will hurt the hero, will hurt the hero's loved ones, but it is the choice of the individual to pursue it, and it is worth it if only because of the cost of nobody doing it.
You can't stop children from growing up, you can only protect them from making their own choices for so long. So better to set a good example, to teach what to do, to show what they shouldn't, and ultimately to be there to support them when they screw up like everybody does.
I need to watch at like half speed to keep up with the bubbles😂
The only other option is do nothing and let all this great forces, cosmic forces do as they please and accept our doom. Nice hero. Nihilist speedster is here to not save you, because everything is doom anyway.
My thing is this..Flash was talking shit to batman how he felt fit to...and the moment batman threw some shit back in his face flash wants to get physical...or at least threaten to 😂
Just one of the few moments where’s fans are reminded that the plot armor is the ONLY thing keeping batman alive against being with godly powers
Correcto
Had me with flash and batman but as soon as lisa's theme started playing the silent hill fan in me started getting giddy xD
I was really sad when this comic came out. It was right after Catwoman left Bruce at the altar, after Dick Grayson was shot in the head, and Batman was one of the biggest proponents for Sanctuary. He needed a friend, someone to remind him that he wasn't alone. He didn't get that.
Injustice Batman: So that's what that feels like.
Batman doesn't win because he can, he wins because they let him, even he knows that
Yup
wrong, dead wrong.. lol Batman could utilize all their weaknesses and kill them.. you know.. like The Batman Who Laughs did?
These Batman haters the new fanboy
Let's get this straight Batman has access to alien drugs to make him as strong as a Kryptonian
He could learn magic easily he knows where they all are
And could make ironman level suits with the weaknesses of the other heros
There's also him getting superpowers on purpose
He should be able to literally just not lose being human is a choice Oh yea failsafe
Like yeah, it called strategy. And most of the strategy (depends on resourses) requires (sometimes multiple) mistakes from opponent.
Of course you doesn't need a strategy or superpowers, if you have plot armor, but we are not talking about it now.
Rename the title to "Flash threw heat and acted like a punk when it got thrown back at him"
Bro you got a narrate these.
Barry could give Batman a wedgie.
I loved how someone called out Batman on his bullshit without Bruce getting the last laugh or where the other person is put in a negative light. I don't dislike how flawed Batman is, I dislike how they present him and his flaws as absolute justice when such a thing is like true perfection, an impossibility. It's almost always Batman's way or the high way. The writers put Batman's morals on a pedestal and he often talks on others on such a high horse even though he stoop so low. He's a flawed man, just trying to do what he thinks is best, that's how he should be presented as, not this God slayer who's the best and his way of thinking is the best.
That's why I don't like Batman. He isn't just another hero, the writers always treat him like a god
@@oevandrorealconfia4762 I like batman, but when he's outside of the league as a street level criminal. Yes he beats meta, but they're lower tier and his planning, cunning, and tech is more believable
Normal trying to fight after getting return roasted means you lost
And is threatening folks because you lost a roast session superhero behavior
This not even a fight Batman wasn't even trying to fight
Called out of Batman's bullshit? Started insulting Batman, somehow bring out completly unrelated contingency plans, then insults Batman more, and when Batman finally snaps, Barry starts flexing with his superpowers almost wenting into complete violence.
Fuck Barry, what an asshole.
It's not like Batman forced enyone into becoming heroes, and it's not like he was the first to ask them to act like one.
Teenagers would *try* to be heroes, regardless of people's opinions, and Batman offers his help, because even if he disagree, he would be ignored and the kids themselves would dead a week later, bleeding to death in alley from thugs, since they were inexperienced.
And while your argument valid, it's completly unrelated to this situation. Since Barry is the wrong one here.
Flash didn’t really deserve respect here after what he did tho
Why is it that in argument like these, when one friend starts saying a bunch of truly hurtful things to the other just to make them feel bad, and as soon as the other friend say something just as hurtful they wanna get mad and start a fist fight like Barry just did and Diggle did in arrowverse
It's nice to see batman knocked down a few pegs and Barry pretty much summed him up perfectly.
batman has been brought down several times, broken back, heart attack, old age, got his but kicked by sane joker. this was in ppoor taste to me. batman never would have flinched like that, hes not emotionless but he knew barry was coming for him and hes stared down scary and sudden things without fear before
@@clevernamerighthere9240 yea...stared then down with a plan. Here, he's completely and utterly helpless. If Barry wanted batman woudve just been a stain. And it's precisely that that makes this perfect. It's a well deserved humbling. And a reminder to his readers that he's not invincible
@@renutus1580 Neither is Barry.. Give Batman a lil prep time, and Mr. Freeze's cold gun stored in Batmans' arsenal would have Barry begging for mercy.. lol.
these moments happen for all characters.
@@renutus1580 Batman knows that Barry will never do that, and so does the reader, that's why this kind of scenes never work unless the writer is actually committed to a conflict.
@@SteveWilsonComic-Man give Batman a little prep time is the go to cop-out for him. It's hilarious
Prep time Batman < Prep time any other Justice Leaguer
Batman with prep time is overrated. Not fair to say Batman has prep time but everyone else doesn't. If heroes like Flash, Wonder Woman, Superman prepared for like years, they would've stomped on Batman.
This coming from a Batman fan.. for those that didn't see my pfp and username..
Batman has been shown to see himself INFERIOR TO SUPERMAN at one point. He couldn't even bring himself to invite Clark to his wedding. No shame to that, the guy is human too, but that proves my point. He IS human. Batman without prep time would lose to any other Justice League member. If he is gonna have prep time.. well, at least ensure that the other heroes get their own prep time too, otherwise it's just dishonest and cheating.
Say it louder for the Batman fanboys in the back.
@@PlahaKumar Their love for the character has blinded their judgement.
Fax
@@SaganThapaContent I agree. Batman is not a god, nor should he be treated like one. He's human. It's a shame the fans and writers forget this.