Here's a fun fact when the star vs the forces of evil movie came out the continuity writer for the show was not hired for movie and season and beyond that. The continuity writer name is on the movie but for only half of it after that they make cutbacks and infighting and it all hell from there. After that they assassinated characters and the character of Moon. They had a sniper rifle on her and the bullets were doused in poison and explosive rounds.
@@caiocesarmarques4765 there are TH-cam channels and documentaries on this. There was a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff with Star vs the forces of evil. There was a ton of infighting, the original voice of glossaryck getting arrested, directors and studio heads fighting each other. Creative differences, you can even check the episodes ending credits you'll see the person's name but they only worked on half of it then the rest of season 3 you don't see the name at all or the title. What they were thinking when they made pay cut they would cut the person who make sure the continuity is right is insane to me.
Also keep in mind that the creation of said super soldiers takes a toll on the soldiers mind and is likely to turn them crazy. So she didn't just endanger all the monsters, Eclipsa + family and Star, Moon also seriously endangered the wellbeing of the people she supposedly wanted to protect from Eclipsas neglect
@@regenbogenwolf yet, she's easily apologized after that like it wasn't enough damage, hell even Star tries to act like she just "messed up" and hugs her cause she's mom.
Why couldn't moon give powers to racist that weren't over the top, insane, or tied to handle separations between peoples in a reasonable way for the sake self-preservation of both peoples? There are monsters and mewmans that would get along on this thing for the sake of securing their nations. Yes, even monsters could've helped out on this.
Seriously though what would she have done that's probably literally the worst she would have did. For some reason I think of as an example "you basically handed bulletproof armor and a gun to a racist"
It didn't work since: A. They were insisting on making the MHC with Mina and magic the final enemy. B. She's Star's mother. C. "wut a tweest" D. It was a part of the wider trend where only Star and Eclipsa with their subordinates among living Mewmans aren't in one way or another eternally hostile towards Monsters. Since they were ultimately saying that the Mewmans were only dangerous to Monsters from magic and the actions of "bad" Mewmans manipulating them (I guess), combined with the show's protag centric morality and tweest writing, Moon got a stint where she played villain then got a quick and cheap redemption arc. Even Solaria got one when you recall that she's established as seeking the destruction of Monsters.
There’s only one way I would’ve accepted Moon being the bad guy as executed: if she was thrown in jail. Can we normalize villains who enable or outright commit genocide *coughcoughTHEDIAMONDSANDSPINEL* actually getting their comeuppance? Either put them in prison or kill them.
@@brandonlyon730 you say that, but vegeta redeemed himself and did all the things he did while under the thumb of frieza. Who is literally space hitler. Also, unlike the generals who were just following orders in ww2, vegeta was a child when planet vegeta was destroyed. He was brainwashed to be that evil. And he *still* managed to redeem himself after a lot of trial and error.
On the Mina thing, they picked the wrong voice for her. Wasn't she supposed to be a teen when she was first recruited? She sounds like some racist Grandma (which I suppose was their intent?) but giving her a typical magical girl voice would've at least heightened the disconnect between her mythical virtue and her actual insanity/bigotry.
I know! I like Eclipsa, but she didn’t give two shits about being queen. Nothing she did benefited the Mewmans at all. She only cared about the monsters and yes, while it’s good she wanted the racism gone, she never cared about anything beyond that. Remember when she moved the monsters into all the Mewman homes, without telling the Mewmans or giving them a heads up? Star had to swoop in and remind Eclipsa to actually do her job and be a queen to both Mewmans and monsters. If I was a Mewman, I probably would’ve ditched to go live in the wilderness too. For all her stupidity in Season 4, Moon was right about Eclipsa being a horrible queen.
Who knows, maybe Eclipsa would've actually given Moon the wand if they had a compromise. Moon knows how to rule a kingdom properly and with Eclipsa, they would have found a way for Mewmans and Monsters to live in good conditions.
She probably didn't want to be queen in duty but knew that it was probably the only way she would have enough power to protect her family and actually make a change. Otherwise, I believe that she would be perfectly content in a little cottage a few ways way from society overall
Same. All she really cared about was her family. I personally think it would've been better if she accepted the throne on the condition that Star would be her successor once she became of age, with a sort of mentor - student dynamic that flips back and forth, since there's a lot of stuff they could've learned from each other. Then we could've had more time and development with the monsters vs mewmans plot, plus Star being super involved with Eclipsa, helping her be popular and whatever would make more sense.
@@merlumili i considered that, but going that route means cutting her own daughter out of the line of succession. And we already saw that as an adult, meteora was mad enough to go villain over that happening before. It sets up a repeat of that conflict for the future. I do still love the mentorship idea though.
Season 4 made me REALLY hate Moon. Just everything she did in the 4th season ranged from making no sense to her being stupid. Like her not trusting Eclipsa especially makes no sense. You think as a mom, Moon would understand what Eclipsa did what she did!
Season 4 really soured my love for the show that it even made me lose interest in the fanfic I was writing for it(though I'm making attempts to get back into it)
@@nicoleflores2054 this makes me wonder if svtfoe is a reason why the newer shows like Amphibia and Owl house are being denied extended seasons. Disney is avoiding over extending them like svtfoe
@@florencejohnpaclibar.1b872 well, Amphibia is ending in season three, it was never planned to have more seasons but the Owl house is a different story.
I like to think that Moons whole amnesia thing scrambled her brain and that's why she went from a character I liked to, well, *gestures at this whole video*
Also,she lost memories of the trial she held for Eclipsa and believing she was good all along while in the magic dimension for a few days. The Moon Amensia plot should’ve never happened at all,along with the Starco plot,Moon’s hatred and mistrust against Eclipsa,Star returning to Mewni,and no trial for Eclipsa. Seasons 3-4 should’ve been non-canon after Battle of Mewni.
I've said it before and i'll say it again: 1) The final season should have had less shipping and baiting and Marco and Star should have been together in 2-3 episodes TOPS. 2) What you said about Moon needing a better motivation. 3) The final confrontation should have been about entering the wand and destroying the 3 spells needed to make a solarian in a raid boss battle style, shutting off Mina and her soldiers ( ONLY MINA AND HER SOLDIERS) from using magic.
The issues with the shipping really reflect how the overall plotting suffers from Star and Marco being the protagonists. The overall plot that they get wrapped up in concerns lore that they have no relevance to at all absent of personal ties (Marco) or are relevant by proxy while being obviously ignorant about it (Star). It goes in line with how every season's big threat (Toffee, Heinous/Meteora II, MHC with Mina) is either more of a nemesis to someone else (Toffee towards Moon) or Star is only an enemy by proxy (Meteora II and the MHC with Mina as their minion). This impacted the fantasy racism since it means that Star and Marco were supposed to solve a problem that by and large went well beyond them.
@shaquille mccray "6) no shipping, focus on action and adventure instead." I don't think there's anything wrong with having shipping in the show... This show just handled it really really really really REALLY REALLY REALLY R E A L L Y Bad.
@shaquille mccray I feel Moon needs to regain all of her memories and needs to accept the fact that Eclipsa wasn’t evil or dangerous and learn to come to terms on how hard she was on Star through most of her life. Also,Star Butterfly deserves a backstory like her mother and some better character development and I feel like Starco’s relationship should be short-lived if they broke up and Marco would try to get back together with Jackie-Lynn if the series was revived and undo all of the terrible stuff that ruined the series in the later seasons such as the romantic shipping and racist equality plots. Daron needs to apologize(along with making the writers apologize) for ruining the show with the poor writing and character derailment,having a lack of creativity, focusing too much on romance and racism,and making the show end with the destruction of magic and learn to make up for her actions by fixing the problems by bringing the show back with the magic coming back thanks to Marco’s magic vacuum and Janna’s tiny unicorn under her hat resparking the magic and Star regretting her past actions and learning about her reckless,selfish,and immature behavior,and ending her relationship with Marco by telling the real truth on why she began to have a crush on him back in Season 2 and Marco getting back together with Jackie by apologizing to her and they both reconcile. Also,Star and Moon would be pointed out for their terrible actions and awful behavior(along with Star getting punished for her reckless and atrocitious actions and getting sent to jail)and Moon would realize how much of a harsh and unreasonable person she was all these years,along with forgetting that Eclipsa wasn’t evil or bad and being a harsh,overbearing parent to Star and putting so much stress on her and being haunted by Comet and Toffee in her nightmares. I feel Daron shouldn’t be the showrunner anymore and I feel a new showrunner and a new team of writers would improve the characters,plots,& characterizations,undo all of the terrible stuff in Seasons 2-4,make a self-deprecation episode making fun of Seasons 3-4,including the romance shipping and a caricature of show creator,Daron Nefcy,and have Star and Moon think more about their actions?
@@KichiMiangra Shipping only works if the audience likes the people being shipped... If the plan to make the ship work causes you to sacrifice the traits that made people like about the character in the first place, well you need to rethink your ship.
If the writers (and there were too many of them per episode) really wanted to regress Moon's character, then they should've shown us that transition, not imply it offscreen or stitch together brief, last-minute flashbacks. If they couldn't commit to making her a villain organically, then they should've just had a simpler story where she learned to get off her butt and help out again. That would've been perfectly serviceable. Let's say, what if Eclipsa's coronation suddenly reminded Moon of the day her mother was assassinated? Moon was even going to perform a song for her mother's big day. Then maybe, in her grief made fresh again, she would've resorted to drastic measures? I dunno, something! The writers were so in love with their petty love triangles that they pushed everything else to the side, crucial stuff like the relationships between Moon, Eclipsa, and their respective mothers, or the history of the previous Mewman-Monster Accord (aka the Peace Treaty). Sometimes I wonder if Solaria was supposed to be Moon's mother, but they changed it because they didn't want the heroine's grandmother to be a war criminal (oh the irony...)?
Mina doesn't sound too old in the flashback, so I think the VA did that since she had lived in squalor for the past 300 years. Also, I don't think they ever said she was a teenager. The Book of Spells doesn't and I don't think the show does either
They didn't commit to it (Moon being a villain) since the show always operated on protag centric morality. It's also what led to Hekapoo being handled how she was in the ending (being the only one among the MHC who was part of Marco's circle of friends). The show's makers were incapable or unwilling to make a conflict where the protags could come into serious confrontation with their family and/or friends, so they gave Moon a lazy redemption and retconned Hekapoo's personality (recall she was complicit in the conspiracy to hide away Meteora II to the point she was shocked when one of her team confessed).
I feel like the crew made this plot twist of Moon the final antagonist of the series because they thought bringing Toffee back was going to be redundant, Seth wasn't planned to appear on the series and they knew Mina didn't have the level to be threatening like Toffee, even if they tried very hard.
Eh, that point applies more to how they used the MHC. With Moon, it was really just how they wrote the fantasy racism ("the Mewmans besides the few exceptions like Star are buffoonish monster hating peasants who Star/Eclipsa would keep in line if it wasn't for their enemies ruining it") combined with how they had the Cleaved ending in mind ahead of everything so they puppeted the characters towards that direction (recall that Star refuses to consider anything other than killing magic to stop Mina, not even using scissors combined with dark magic).
@shaquille mccray There is no need to go so harsh on them. Yes, the show does go down hill but making and writing a show is a very difficult thing to do
The writers didn't know what they were doing. Also, Mina as the final villain was a terrible choice. Star's temper tantrum and destroying magic was forced and was stupid. The real threat was racism and refusing to change. Magic wasn't the problem! Wish we got more episodes with Globgor and have a flashback with him and Eclipsa. Moon betraying everyone, i agree with you Kitty Monk, it would have work of the MHC brainwashed her and lied to her or they took River hostage and threatened her to do this acts. Moon wanted to get rid of Eclipsa because of something Moon caused. She should have understand that Eclipsa was trying to protect her daughter. Moon acted irrationally. Also, Moon should have been more sympathetic and empathize towards Eclipsa and understand why she did that. If Mina was going to be a big threat, have it where she and her warriors were planning to go to every dimensions to take over and kill everyone. Star was stupid in season 4. The writers ruined everything.
"The real threat was racism and refusing to change. Magic wasn't the problem! " We're supposed to assume that magic/MHC was somehow responsible. I think the angle was that Mewmans were somehow manipulated into hating Monsters by magic/the MHC and that by destroying the world they'd stop ("burn down society and kill everyone who tells you what to do who gets in the way and every problem will be gone"). It's a confused metaphor. Obviously the problem was that we're shown that Mewmans barring exceptions were filthy and monster hating peasants. Doubly if you include lore in books. I suspect the issue roots in that they reallllly wanted to have an ending where Star and Marco fix fantasy racism in a loud and exterme way where everyone sings kumbaya but couldn't figure out how to reconcile it from how they characterized Mewmans. So they went with MHC/magic bad.
@@galten7361 the whole thing was poorly written. MHC didn't stop to think that they were doing more harm than good because they were afraid that a monster would use magic. They didn't see that Mewmans are slowly accepting Eclipsa and Globgore and see them as good people. The whole thing about Magic being the problem is stupid because magic doesn't cause racism and make people racist. The MHC were created by magic, but they learned racism from Soloria and the Mewmans. They made chooses not the magic. We all know what happened behind the scenes causing season 4 to be ruined. It was mess the moment things change behind the scenes. They probably had a more better story for season 4, but got rid of it to make magic the villain.
@@AH-is5yg The MHC's characterization was shifted from "obstructive beauacrats who go along with whatever their Mewman constituents do while advising them" to "dastardly manipulating politicians who with magic are the real forces behind fantasy racism." Hekapoo especially was an example of their problem with the bonus she was defined too much around Marco. It's really that they shifted Hekapoo's character to whatever she needed to be in the episode (trickster goddess opposing Marco in one, the one woman in the MHC and goes along with the others' plan, one of Marco's posse complete with an awkward attempt to bury his ship with her, the "good" MHC member).
@@galten7361 Hekapoo was an individual not a force of magic. Hekapoo still did some terrible actions that caused 300 more years of war against monsters and mewmans. Not once did the other MHC stop and think if what they're doing is right. They knew how dangerous Mina is and they let her do whatever she wanted even if she hurt innocent people. They didn't do anything to stop her when she was out of control. The story was a mess.
@@galten7361 The MHC's deaths were underwhelming. We don't see Hekapoo's death. I thought she see her hands deteriorating and realizes she's going to die. She smiles and drinks one more time as her send off. Moments before her death, she regrets her actions against Eclipsa and her family and wished that she should have accepted change 300 years ago. Thinks about Marco one more time. As for the MHC, we could have see them dying. Before they die, they could have at least realizes that Eclipsa and others escape also learn that they are going to destroy the magic, but it was too late to act as they are dying. They get upset that they were killed by Eclipsa and her daughter. They see Moon and Star helping them and see this as a final betrayal. They failed to see that betraying the queen is what sealed their fate.
I have low self esteem and thus don't trust my own judgement in a lot of cases.. but as soon as the finale aired, even I trusted my judgement completely that it was absolute dogshit
I was so mad at Moon about her saying Eclipse kept her away from her family, she was gone for a month, and Eclipse was away from her family for HUNDREDS of years. Eclipse thought her child has past away years ago she didn't even have a chance to watch her baby grow-up , learning that her daughter was gotten rid of, finding out that Meteora was still alive but became a angry soul sucking monster. Didn't even have a chance to connect to her before Moon saying screw your feels I'm going to kill her and later with a broken heart Eclipse had to destory her herself.
Yea but none of the things that happened to eclipsa was done by Moon. Eclipsa's actions and interference directly effected Moon and did keep her away from her family, especially when you consider that Eclipsa stopped Moon from killing Meteora, only to just come to the conclusion of killing her herself. So technically Moon is valid in her statement.
@@drjones1020 So Eclipse should just stand there and let Moon kill her child. It doesn't matter if Moon wasn't the person who imprisoned Eclipsa, she should understand being a mother as well that Eclipse was protecting her kid. If Star became a monster do you think Moon would stand there and let someone kill her or stop that person from killing her and try to connect with her.
@@MsHood1986 I'm not saying Eclipsa should just stand there and do nothing. I'm just saying Moon is right in her statement where what happened to her is kinda Eclipsa's fault. It doesn't matter Eclipsa's reason is. I'm just saying what she did resulted in what happened to Moon.
On the one hand, I can kind of understand Moon's hatred of monsters. Seeing your parent slaughtered by such creatures is NOT an easy thing to get over. Still, when you see some monsters displaying a GENUINE desire to change their behavior; you should give them a chance. Just look at Buff Frog, Ludo's former minions, Ludo's brother, the monster teens...each one of THEM wanted to stop fighting Mewmans and just EXIST on Mewni peacefully with everyone, later in the series. But what does Moon do...she creates a whole kingdom of racists and desired to either wipe out monsters or force her people into following an unreachable journey towards perfection. Don't get me wrong, Globgore made HIS mistakes and Star is no saint either; she DID cause a massive genocide of magical creatures by destroying the Realm of Magic. But everything Moon did was basically what gave her daughter the idea to screw up royally (no pun intended)
If the past queens still existed either in the wand or in the realm of magic then why not just find a way to get Solaria to help them. With the little bit we got from her at the end with Eclipsa and Meteora it seemed like she would at least realize that something she started put her family in danger. It would still be out of character, but I could at least accept it better if she put aside her bias for the sake of saving her kid from an active threat only she could stop instead of her just being cool with it at the last second. I think that would have been a better way to do things if they still wanted to have the big twist with Moon because they'd still get to have a lot of the same things, it would just fix the one big problem everyone had with it. You could still have Moon be the villain because there would be an opportunity for her to actually make up for it and admit she was wrong and you could still have Meena and some of the mumans stay biased. They could've avoided the implication of the main character willingly killing an unknown number of creatures by destroying something that existed before mumans came to munie in the first place. And as an added bonus they could've possibly left things open for a sequel series. Season 4 just wasn't anyone's favorite.
@@florencejohnpaclibar.1b872 Before the episode Surviving the Spiderbites premiered and officially made the pair canon, I made my own fanfic about Penny and Slime
@@kittykittybangbang9367 Mina should be dead at least, isn’t she thousands of years old? And how did she survived that unicorn attack? And why did Solaria suddenly betrayed her? She made Mina this way and then rejected her!
Perhaps you could one day do a video on the wasted opportunity that was Queen Comet? She was the only biracial queen (black mom, white dad) and the only one with butterfly (or moth?) cheeks. The fact that she nearly succeeded in doing what her granddaughter was trying to do in Season 3 is never brought up, especially not by Moon herself. Wouldn't Moon worry that what happened to her mother would happen to Star? They gave little to no context to the events that led to her assassination. Her status as a peace-loving chef and a dimensional wanderer in her youth is also never mentioned in the show. Instead, Comet's only a plot device who only shows up in some old photos/paintings, which is why I feel nothing when Moon sees her ghost - that is, if those "grandmas" really were ghosts and not just stress-induced hallucinations conjured up by Star to assure her that her decision to destroy magic was totally fine! We never see any flashbacks of Comet and Moon together, we don't get a sense of what her character was like. She looks like she could've been a Snow White expy, like how Mina Loveberry was a Sailor Moon knockoff, but they did nothing to indicate that in the show itself. Far-fetched rambling and speculation ahead: It's even more disappointing because she was hinted to be an important character as early as the Season 1 finale (Toffee's exchange with Marco was suspiciously centered around having his last meal, Marco sarcastically bragged about being a "good cook"), in throwaway episodes like Fetch (a dog runs from her problems and home dimension, is given a purple butterfly necklace, her owner was first believed to be a beautiful businessman) and Red Belt (Marco has a dream in green where he opens a purple locker with himself in a suit surrounded by purple Mewberty hearts) - all before she's revealed to have died in "Moon the Undaunted." It feels like vague setup to one of many plots that could've died when certain people like director Giancarlo Volpe left.
@@florencejohnpaclibar.1b872 I guess it was because it began as a fun, American take on magical girls and starred a magical princess. If only it had stayed a magical girl/princess parody...
Love the idea that the ghosts were illusions Star made to validate her own oppinion of her actions being right or for the greater good when they really werent
@@AndromedaNull Even if the writers did not mean it, I couldn't see it being any other way. Star doesn't know these people, she only skimmed her book of spells and barely read past Skywynne's chapter. These queens say nothing, all stand and pose the same way (despite them having different quirks and personalities in the book). I understand that if they couldn't afford a new intro, they probably couldn't afford any new Prestige TV voice actors or actresses, but these "ghosts" only seem mad in Glossaryck's illusion and then seem happy once Star has made up her mind.
Moon: I don't care that Mina is trying to kill Eclipsa because I'm not queen anymore Also Moon, one season later: I want to be queen again and have joined forces with the person who wants to assassinate not only Eclipsa, but all of the monsters
Season 4 fucked up everything and this has to be the worst decisions that the writers ever did. not only the plot twist doesn't make any sense, the execution made it even worse, Star and Eclipsa straight up forgive Moon because yes, even though she did a big mistake that cause the reasoning of destroying the magic.
They should’ve gone a different route with the later seasons after Toffee. without the pointless romance triangles,shipping,hypocrisy,racial equality plots,character derailment,and destruction of world building.
I liked a lot of the ideas of Season 4. Mina as the big bad made sense; the story had been building to Mewni becoming more accepting of monsters who are shown to not be bad but in many ways victim of colonialist cruelty. Mina's the reactionary who can't accept that the old ways are gone and in many ways were always evil. I loved how Solaria shoots her the death glare as she's dragged under the water, and how even Solaria realizes the error of her ways in death.
"being a mass butcher is okay as long as you pet your halfbreed granddaughter" Solaria gets a medal for not kicking babies now? And trying to "heal" Mewni of its history wasn't working. Not how Star thinks it should go. Mina had an whole army's worth of volunteers to help her kill off the Monsters with no real opposition among the Mewmans besides Star and Eclipsa with their sidekicks. Eclipsa's scheme to seize Mewman occupied land and "Return" it to Monsters didn't end in riots (which realistically is what would happen) since the Mewmans who were kicked out moved away rather than be around Monsters (also plot magic). Face it, what they were doing would've just seeded tomorrow's fantasy racewar if it wasn't for the writers making it go otherwise. Even Comet tried and she got assassinated.
Mina as the big bad would fit the overall story but her character did not fit the dynamic. When we see her she is always a silly insane parody of a magical girl, not a endgame villain that was treated as a bigger threat than toffee. Toffee felt a lot more threatening than she ever was but she was given the spotlight as the final villain instead of another character corrupt by old ways.
Wasn't it Solaria (the Queen) who took her (a peasent girl) and almost literally made her that way, the magic breaking her mind in the process? I thought that moment with Solaria was downright cruel and she of all people should have been the last one to pull that.
@@galten7361 It's more that she genuinely realized how wrong a lot of her prejudices were. And while the execution was flawed the underlying idea (the Mewman's being forced to acknowledge that the monsters were justified in being angry and that they had committed crimes that needed to be addressed) is a solid one. America has a hard time owning it's colonialist past
@@ryanmoore6259 Solaria was the one who led the genocidal policies to begin with. As it stands the show awkwardly tried to present Mina as just the "evil one" between her and Solaria even though Solaria didn't have centuries to live in battle and being empowered by magic meaning the queen was still within her faculties when she was being genocidal..
I'm only realizing this now, but Bubblegum and Moon are very similar characters. They're both leaders who care for their people but lead with a strict hand and do what they believe is best, even if its something bad. Both even betrayed someone close to them (bubblegum with fire princess) because they thought it would be the best for their people and left the kingom/their leadership for self reflection. Even though they're so similar, they're executed so differently. PB actually had consistent development in her character and feelings instead of flip flopping when the plot called for it.
Tbh, during the show we saw that Eclipsas way of ruling had mistakes and the changes were rushed. Like the family who got kicked out of their home because it (kinda rightfully) was given back to the monsters who used to lived there. Yet the family had no place to go and came home just to find their stuff packed for them. So there were people who have the right to be upset with Eclipsas handling of the mewan/monster relationships. Also Eclipsas law of freeing all monsters from imprisonment was a bit foggy, cause I'm unsure if there are monsters who actually committed crimes and are on the loose, but of course the show doesn't want to address it. Moon meanwhile seemed to have given those and other people a small and organized community, which they clearly needed because they were used to it and can't change on a dime. They even pointed out how they got used to Moon running things for them It would make more sense if those people and moon got their own individual piece of land while trying to help them to get used to Mewnis changes, by seeing that Eclipsa and Globgor genuinely try to make Mewni a better place for everyone. What I don't understand is why Moon was so quick to give into the hatred. Her issues seemed to be personal with Eclipsa and she also was enjoying her break. It's understandable that the mewmans ended up where they were, but Moon seemed a bit too rushed. They could have fleshed her corruption out if they wanted it so badly. Like, she could have been jealous that Star barely spends time with her and is more Eclipsas personal assistant/advisor. Wasn't that what sparked Moons anger? Being separated from her family.
Early on they kept mentioning "mewmen magic" For a while I thought that meant they had a completely separate source of magic from the other magic dimensions. That turned out not to be true, but ironically it would have fixed a lot of the ending. I mean imagine an ending where they reveal the magic temple is actually a syphon taking magic that would flow into the world and exclusively giving it to the queen. They could have built it so that the monsters couldn't use magic. But as a side effects only the wand/people connected to it can tap into magic, thus also locking magic from the common people. It would even fit with the idea of giving people the tools to defend themselves.
@@KittyMonk The central finite curve separated dimensions, but this would absorb the magic coming into that one world. We see other worlds with magic, so that means mewmans would only be tapping into the magic in Mewni. Plus, we see that the temple was built over the entrance to the realm of magic. The only real difference is that they would be pumping the magic out of it like an oil well in this version.
When Moon Butterfly got her soul sucked out I believe her soul opened a portal to the realm of magic it was actually The magic acting on its own Think of it as a safeguard to keep Moon safe And return her soul it transported her to the magical realm.
As someone who didn’t watch this show entirely but still enjoyed the episodes I did watch… I can also agree the ending was just terrible. Mass genocide, open plot lines, character assassination (more ways than one), unfinished stories, complete 180’s. They could of done so much… and they did not CARE. They just did not, in favor of fanservice for SHIPPING.
Personally, I think the biggest mistake is the show trying TOO hard to subvert the "Eclipsa is evil" plot line. Like the whole Mewmans are biased against her because she married a monster is OK. Like they can think she is a bad seed or whatever. But it makes no damn sense for everyone and their mother to insist on keep calling her "evil" when she is NEVER shown to do anything even remotely dubious (Except for like Mina doing it cause she's obviously crazy). It's made even worse when she became a fan favorite character, so the show try super hard to make her and her family out as super nice without a single hint of them being bad. Cause we all know popular character can't be anything but super good right? Once again that just invalidate anything and everything related to her "evil queen" title and reputation. It's all tell not show.
They made it so preachy too, even preachier than Zootopia. It's not a bad message on paper, but its execution made it less palatable to anyone over the age of five. It's as if the writers thought, "Subversion first, character later."
Moon not helping is like an arsonist burning down your house and a passerby who was a retired firehouse captain watch it burn to the ground because they were retired, and there was a new firehouse captain he didn’t like
TO THIS DAY I am STILL salty about how they handled rhombulus’s character in season 4, out of the remaining active MCH members he was the ONLY one that felt guilty over what they did to Eclipsa and her family(the fact that after 300 years the guilt is still there just as bad), Hekapoo & Omnitraxus were more upset that he actually told the truth when they were literally about to be crushed by their lies then they were about their part in the whole horrible event. I mean heck, when Star told the MCH to leave the war room after the events of the Trial Rhombulus was still the only one who felt guilty about what he took part in while the others were just annoyed that acting queen Star was actually still mad at them for what they did. And actually let’s talk about Star now, the only member of the MCH(aside from Glossaryck) that Star actually had a connection to and was able to bond with was Rhombulus! That man never felt like he was taken seriously by the other MCH members in his life and now he’s meeting Star who knows exactly how he feels and not only relates to him on that but also takes what he says seriously and vice versa, I’ve got no idea if he’s ever experienced that in his life but if he didn’t I’m sure as hell that man wouldn’t be picking the side of his MCH members who look down on him over his friendship with Star. But of course season 4 happened and instead of giving him a full on character progression based on his previous seasons actions(especially his guilty about the whole Eclipsa and Meteora situation) in which he might actually stand up against the MCH, they have Hekapoo be the “good” member who supposedly came to her senses and offered a bit of help at the very end of the show(despite the fact that it was extremely clear that that woman never felt a bit of remorse over what she did to Eclipsa and especially felt that the MCH was in the right for what they did to Meteora). It’s been over 2 years since the show ended, I’m still seething over this.
THANK YOU, YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW MUCH I NEEDED THIS. Rhombulus could've had a lot of potential and i don't see people calling out Hekapoo for her actions when she didn't regret what she did with the festivia situation. As much as i love her, she needed to be called out in the series but she never did.
Nicole Flores I mean let’s be honest here, I’m pretty sure Meteora & Mariposa didn’t end up going through that portal on their own and I doubt Hekapoo just “accidentally” left one of her portals open in the room that holds the baby she despises
@@jackierocha5096 right, especially the idea of telling Marco and Star to not go to Mewni because it's too dangerous!1! even though they literally went through dangerous situations themselves AND save Mewni. especially the fact that they needed to bring Meteora back to Eclipsa.
It seems that because hekapoo was a fan favorite character they prioritized her as the mhc member to ally the main characters, even if it didn't make sense based on her character's previous actions. Even in the magic book of spells, omni was the one who wanted festi to be nicer to monsters and hekapoo wasn't, she even helped solaria in the war the most, she is the member whose most consistently racist towards them (and yes, that makes omni wanting them dead seem ooc as well). Rhom and omni, the two members who were the most sympathetic do a complete 180, meanwhile the most racist member is the hero who never has to apologize for anything she did or show remorse..... Rhom especially had a growing arc towards being the ally of the mains and the potential of redemption, but hekapoo is more popular so screw that natural arc that made sense. You shouldn't choose characters based on popularity contests, cause just like jarco/kellco/tomstar ending...making abrupt choices like that with barely any setup are jarring and annoying.
I feel like a better way to do the ending is if Eclipsa and Star decided to officiate the Monster-Mewman Peace Accords by inviting the two sides to the agreement. However, Mina and Seth manage to convince their respective sides, and Civil War is inevitable once it's over. Now, it's up to the Butterflies to stop in an all-out war that will mean the death of both peoples. I would also like is this is where the fact Moon didn't do anything about Mina to come back into play with Star blaming her for the fact she didn't even try to warn them and Moon feeling legitimately guilty for putting everyone in danger the way she did. I think this would also make Eclipsa and Star wonder if peace was ever truly possible within Mewni but Marco manages to remind them that they have made progress and things will change for the better and he's proven right because with a combined force of monsters and mewmans loyal to Star and Eclipsa, they manage to defeat the supremacists and save Mewni.
This twist came out of nowhere. Moon was supposed to be the smart, rational one - why would she think Mina would be a good partner? And what did Eclipsa DO? Her worst spell was technically her mother’s invention, and she & Globgor were pretty nice when unprovoked (and I’d eat the guy who threw my baby on the streets & had my wife imprisoned for loving me, too.). If Moon was concerned for the displaced Mewmans, why not take legal actions & file grievances before going straight to couping her way back onto a throne that was never meant for her?
Moon is my favorite character in the show. Always has and always been. Season 4 RUINED her. There is no justification as to why they ruined her character.
I kinda feel the thing with Solaria being chill with Meteora isn't as "out of character" when you realize she's been dead 300 years. That's such a long time that you could reasonably expect her to have a completely different personality, at least if the queens retain some level of consciousness after death.
Also, agree about wishing we got an episode focused on Solaria and Eclipsa. I think the implication with her accepting Meteora was supposed to be that she really did love her daughter and wanted Eclipsa to be happy no matter what, but without really seeing that or even having dialogue, it does feel kind of rushed.
Plus, according to Moon, "it's my way or the highway". For example, when Eclipsa was talking to her long, lost daughter, nobody was getting hurt. Eclipsa had it under control... I swear, it's like she took the memories of "her realizing that monsters have families, too" and yeets it out of her mind. Yes, I understood that she had amnesia, but she recognized her daughter and husband. If Jackie-Lynn Thomas could have a french girlfr- I mean "cool friend" offscreen, then what's Moon's excuse for relearning that monsters have families?
By season 3 the monsters and the mewmans had become so one dimensional and void of agency while the main characters were entangled in soap opera shenanigans that I stopped caring what they did. They had become podiums for the writers to scream that racism and imperialism is bad in the most unintelligent manner possible.
Maxwell Atoms once said, "Opinions are much more palatable when cloaked in entertainment." But nothing was cloaked or woven into the story here; it was placed on a soapbox and put on full blast. There was no entertainment to be had.
Before I watch the video, I'd like to share a realization I came to about Moon about a week or so ago. Moon Butterfly is probably the worst Disney Channel animated mom of at least the new era. I came to this conclusion by watching both the Owl House and Amphibia. Camila Noceda has a hard time understanding Luz. But she realized that her mistake may have pushed Luz away and will accept her as she is because all she wants is for Luz to be safe. Mrs. Boonchuy knows that Anne can be irresponsible, but she was also able to see how Anne grew and changed and became a dependable young lady. Somehow, Moon failed on both parts. Until the very last moment, Moon treated Star like a child. Despite the fact that Star proved she could not only handle herself, but also make good decisions. She was right to give the kingdom to Eclipsa. Moon wanted to take it back just as Mewni was accepting Eclipsa and Globgor and only because she was upset with Eclipsa. I understand Moon was upset that she was stuck in the Magic Dimension, but she let those personal feelings put everyone, including Star, in danger. Even during Star's justified outburst, Moon treated her like a child throwing a tantrum. She didn't come to respect or understand Star's judgement. To her, Star was still an unruly child who didn't know what she was doing. And for a show that highlights the relationships between mothers and daughters for generations, it's sad that they never confronted that or fixed it. Anyway, that's just my view on it. Can't wait to watch the video
Maybe this was because she was raised by whoever that "Aunt Etheria" lady was after her mother died? I thought she was going to be Star's grandmother at first, what with her being even more stiff and classist than Moon, and wanting her to have married a more suitable man than King River. Though Aunt Etheria was an inconsequential character who only showed up in one episode.
I still wanna know what happened to all those butterfly relatives! They could’ve provided another perspective and they’re retconned out after a single episode!
@@Rosemont104 I still don't know where tf they came from or why the aunt had cheeks marks. It seems like Butterflies get those marks from a) birth or b) being touched by the magic wand (in Festivia's case). So where does she even fit in? Is she a descendant of Dirhhennia? That wouldn't make much sense because to my knowledge, her sister Crescenta (deranged as she was) turned her and her boyfriend into wolves or something like that. I think maybe she could be a descendant of Jushtin which is why she has the cheek marks. Funny thing is that would actually make her more legitimate than Moon and Star
Surprised with the mention of Moon, Mrs. Boonchuy, and Camilla Noceda being compared, you never brought up other flawed Disney moms like Della on Ducktales 2017 and Nancy on Big City Greens as comparisons too (with both leaving their children at an early age due to their recklessness).
And her apology at the end was incredibly half assed and I resented that they made Star forgive her so easily. Moon has so much she needs to atone for and yet she probably never will 🤷♂️
Bro, when I first saw that Moon betrayed Eclipsa and Star I just thought, "Wait, wtf? Where did this come from?!" It's like when a conductor of a train has two options of track but then picks the third option of just not using the tracks at all and driving into the ocean
Season 4 was very bittersweet because it made toffee's statement about magic right but in a underwhelming way. Oh there are a army of supersoldiers beating the crap out of us, let us nuke our capital city to get rid of them. Not the best metaphor but my point should be clear enough. They really should have done something more than just have mina be a super predictable racist nutjob
What I want to know is: How did Star restore the magic AND get her Super Mode after Toffee destroyed all magic from inside her wand? How did Marco survive getting impaled by the unicorn? How is Pony Head still alive after magic is gone?
Man. I literally hope this show gets a reboot in a few years. They can include so much of the stuff from the book, like the fact Toffee was answering to an even more evil person who would've been the perfect final villain? and just in general fix all the dumb shipping stuff. I miss the first three seasons of this show man, they were fantastic
They should've: Used a villain that hates magic and seeks to replace it with science. Bring back the animation from season 1. 4 is all too stale. Get rid of those romance plots! Those are just filler.
Also: -bring back Aunt Etheria from Game of Flags and reveal her to be her the proper reason why Moon is so mean to Star and have her stand up to her aunt for her toxic influence. -Have Moon show no mistrust against Eclipsa and feels worried and sorry for her. -Have the setting be mostly on Earth and Star return for a little more training rather than choosing to go back to Mewni. -Give Star,Marco,and Moon actual proper character development and growth and have them actually learn to grow to acknowledge their own flaws and mistakes. -Give Jackie,Marco’s parents,and Mariposa more screentime. -Have Moon haunted by the ghosts of Toffee and Comet in her nightmares and learn about the truth of how Comet was killed by Toffee. -have Moon and the Magic High Commission go to the Archives instead of Moon and Eclipsa. -Actually,replace the animations from Seasons 3-4 with Saerom and Snipple Animation,they had way better animation than Rough Draft Studios and Sugarcube. -Have Moon and Eclipsa ally with Star and help her fight against Meteora. -Have Butterfly Castle repaired and rebuilt and not left in ruins after “Conquer”. -Have Star and Moon attend family counseling sessions about their relationship,problems,and flaws.
@@McCraeTheMediaLover And eventually: - Ending with Star and Marco being just friends, and Star is with Tom, and Marco is with Kelly after the break-up of the Blood Moon Curse.
Moon: YOU SEPARATED ME FROM MY FAMILY Also Moon: *READY TO MURDER METEORA IN FRONT OF ECLIPSA WHO LIVED YEARS WITHOUT THE CHANCE TO FORM A FAMILY, AND EXPECTS HER TO DO NOTHING*
So Eclipsa..... was a terrible queen. At the end of season 3, the Castle and the Capital City of Mewni are completely destroyed. A huge chunk of the population are now homeless and jobless, and, as pointed put in this video, Mewmans have been spoiled by the queen taking care of them for centuries. Does Eclipsa wave her wand and rebuild the city? No. Rather than help these people, Eclipsa spends a majority of her time trying to free Globgore, trying to win over the public through shallow spectacle, and displacing even more Mewman's like the Maizleys. The situation is so dire that they basically form a yurt kingdom under Moon because so many are homeless and starving, but Eclipsa doesn't care. Moon's sudden "create a deadly army to take the kingdom from Eclipsa" plan is way out of line and out of character. But Eclipsa's actions towards her Mewman citizens was no better than Moon's towards monster citizens in earlier seasons.
Right? Thank you! She doesn't even bother keeping track of when she's supposed to meet with the Spiderbites, people who are ON her side, but have very legitimate complaints! But she can't be bothered. She even steals someone's body without their consent to unleash someone the public views as a cannibal. Which, yeah, it's her husband, but if she's trying not to make herself look like an evil tyrant, she's failing. She really only cares about her family (Which is fine, but not for royalty) and that was why I could never get behind her as queen. The characters are always like "just give her a shot! she can be a good queen!" but every chance she had at being queen, she screwed it up.
@@Aego384 Actually with that family in that Episode Moon asked the family did they speak to Eclipsa about them losing their home to the monsters and they said they didn't even talk to her. That is kind of on them. It doesn't seem like the mewmens ever TRIED to go to Eclipsa for help. She obviously didn't want to be queen but she wasn't like that to the mewmens out of malice where as the slaughter of monsters were completely out of malice
Something that occured to me as i was watching the final minutes of the video, if Solaria existed enough through the magic dimension/the wand[?] to manifested with sentience there i feel like they could of used that/her to get around the 'we pledged ourselves to solaria' issue which was the main problem with the magic knights.
Interesting. I thought something along the same lines. My idea was using Ronaldo to travel back to Solaria's time period. She'd refuse to believe the group at first but they'd take her to the present and show her the damage the Solarian Warriors are causing. She'd come to the realization that she went to extremes, strip the Solarians of their power and return to her own time.
Ugh Moon used to be my favorite character in the show. (Now it's Tom) But her betrayal ruined her for me. I'm not even against the idea of itself. I thought it'd be a nice parallel between Eclipsa and Solaria. Of course it happened way to late in the show for it to have impact. Like what if the reveal happened at Cornonation instead. And there was barely build up or conclusion to it. If they went with the parallel root we could have even gotten an Eclipsa and Solaria flashback episode. Where Eclipsa convinced Star there's still hope her mother can change!
I will only come to the defense of one thing: It's visually implied that Moon DIDN'T know how to get to the realm of magic, but instinctively fled to there when being severely injured by Meteora's blast put her into that fight or flight mode. Just like how Star was going there in her sleep without intending to: They both had the yellow star eyes that they get when they're NOT controlling that forms actions.
Completely agree but i think the reason solaria is ok with meteora is her love for her daughter always outweighed her hatred for monsters, so seeing eclipsa happy with her daughter made her happy she could find that love too
I remember watching behind the scenes of SVTFOE years back. The way they had created episodes was a bunch of writers would be in a circle, and everybody took a turn writing a scene, and how it would go down. It made the show unique in a way, but if that's how they wrote the ending, then I wouldn't doubt that's why it was a disaster.
Moon being a villain makes sense. She went through all the shit involving toffee, who she could have easily killed but didn't because it would have required her to release eclipsa, and she didn't because that was a bad thing. ... but what if it *wasn't* and her reluctance to kill toffee earlier before he almost killed star was entirely pointless. What if the entire system from which she drew power was basically a lie
Making Moon the mastermin behind Mina's rebellion just...comes out of NOWHERE. It doesn't fit with what was set up before, or with Moon's character arc and honstly just feels like it was thrown in for shock value. We already HAD a villain in Mina and the Commission, Moon didn't NEED to be the villain (especially since afer the reveal she basically goes abck to helping the heroes anyway so what the fuck was the point). and, unrelated but it was briefly brought up in the video, my main issue with Mina is mostly...she doesn't seem good enough to be the big final boss of the series. Sure she's powerful, but she's been largely used for jokes and is too crazy and dumb and lacks the charisma a good villain should have.
It was always my Headcannon that festivia hekapoo's daughter and all the equlipsa hate was hekapoo manipulating the rest of the MHC to put her daughter and her daughters family on the throne
Moon’s character got ruined in season 4. But one thing I can’t stand about Svtfoe fans is how much they trivialize her trauma and the circumstances she grew up in. People just water Moon down as some monster racist and doesn’t care about Star. - Moon literally grew up at a time of war. Toffee killing her mom was the icing on the cake. The day that happened, was when Moon’s character took a turn from the worst. The weight of the throne and the fate of mewni was on her shoulders. Moon’s childhood was stripped from her. - I guarantee you if comet was still alive, moon would’ve been a much better mother to Star. Comet was the only parent moon had and the only one she received genuine love from until she died. Then river came along, but he’s not her parent.
Personally I HATE that star was being built up to becoming queen her own way, only for her to throw it away. Also, I think the finale should have been like this: Mina being quickly defeated, like super quick.. Making use of a past element we know could work. .. Father Time... Specifically based on the suggestion by someone to use the "time freezing spell". Where they decide instead to see if father time could stop time for a bit, in such a way that they aren't affected, but everything else is.. Probably using those time medallions that we saw the time beings wear. *Remember.. Even Glosseryck was affected by the time freezing, so ALL the magical council would be affected too* Then have Marco, Star, Heckapoo, and possibly Moon, Eclipsa, and Meteora wear them, and do the next phase.. Gather up all the frozen in time solarian warriors, bring them all to the nevezone, and position them in a big circle around the center. In said center... Place the magical high commission including a fake heckapoo, but put accessories on them... Specifically "PRO-Monster" stuff, like "I heart monsters", "Mewmans suck", "I love septarians", etc. With mina's mind set... She'd probably just shoot first, ask questions never. Then before time resumes... Bring the surviving monsters to the temple location for quick healing after proper time. As well as have heckapoo shut down ALL access to the neverzone. Trapping them there with mina, who has weapons that can kill anything. Then when time resumes, they would start to heal the monsters.. BUT... That's when corrupted magic starts to pour in.. Corrupting them. Yes... Even Globgor. Then bring them to the magic dimension *with pudding*, where they confront Tom and the evil unicorn.. But in doing so.. Two people end up corrupting.. Marco, which brings out a new monster/human form. *Think Marco with tentacle hair, and possibly arms. Glowing eyes, cape, etc* He ends up turning good again to help star, tom, and the butterflies against the other corrupted person... Glosseryck.. Who shows off his TRUE form and powers. *Big, Buff, and Blue* Then when all hope seems lost, Baby shows up to help Star power up even farther.. Defeating Glosseryck, who gives her a final speech, yada yada. Giving her HIS position before melting into pudding I mean come on, that would have shown she grew as a person.
As i re watched the finale i think i got it. I think i got why the finale upset me so much. It was a subtle writing flaw that ticked me off as a writer that i didn't get until now. But now that i do ii understand why i still have issues. Simply put i let myself be confused by her wanting to stop mina. This is not important in the long run. What upset me so much was that Star never considered all the problems for others not on mewni without magic(or the spells) . what star did was the antithesis of the whole show, she became what she hated, a queen making a big decision for everyone else without actually considering the wants and needs of others. That is why i was so upset. When you break it down that is so against what Star's character is that it's downright upsetting. It sort of just...Makes her what she hated so much. Someone who makes decisions for others, saying it's for the best without asking anyone else. Literally her entire problem with the commission was this very thing and them lying about it saying ti was for the greater good of mewni. She basically does the same thing that feels so wrong Its just... So selfish. And there are no real consequences or fallout of this that affects her in a negative personal way It makes Star almost into a Mary Sue Everyone loves her and accepts her decisions no matter what and faces no consequences for her actions She kills magic and gets the guy in the end Simply put it makes star a hypocrite. Think about it. Star is litteraly a giant hypocrite by the end of the series and nobody points this out or addresses it. Heck even most people pointing out the problems of the show DON'T point THIS out either. Which is extremely ironic....Given Star's entire character was abouther NOT wantign to be like every other queen adn rebelling against that to do things her own way and be her own person.
You hit it square on the head. Like they were clearly going for a “this is a last resort option where everything else failed” and somehow they fucked it up. You could maybe argue that Star had snapped after Moon’s betrayal but even then the show should’ve done better with it.
Eclipsa wasn’t even interested in taking the throne in the first place. Could’ve just had Star rule over Mewni up until Meteora was old enough and done. Or just flat out abdicate and have Star be her heir/successor. Easy and done. But I do agree that with Moon. The show really dropped the ball and really messed with her. I can feel pity that her mother was killed by Toffee, but then she goes around this “monsters are bloodthirsty” tirade and then she joins Mina to take the crown back? Like what?!
I'm still mad they didn't do the obvious thing and make Moon and Eclipsa joint Queens or atleast have Moon train her to help the people better. Eclipsa cares about the monsters while Moon cares about the Mewmans, the arc shouldve been them learning to work together to make Mewni a country for both groups to thrive. Instead they made her hate Eclipsa and send genocidal assassins after her for no reason
Persoanlly, I think part of the reason Moon is so awful in seaosn 4 and has lines and motivationst hat make no sense is beacuse ECLIPSA was originally planned to be the big villain of the last season. If you think about it it makes WAY more sense. II mean to be honest? There were times it felt like eclipsa was purposely baiting the MHC to act overly paranoid and defensive over her to gaslight them and make them look bad in Stars eyes if you payed attention. But more importantly? In the last season if you look at it's storyline and events with Eclipsa being the villain to be revealed at the end a LOT of stuff actually flows better/has an actual purpouse. Why was Eclipsa such a irresponsible and bad queen who seemed to have no idea what she doing, despite us knowing for a fact Mewni had barley changed from when it was her time? She was being bad at it on purpouse to distract Star. Why was there the entire episode with the Spider-bites which told us that Eclipsa was very clearly hiding some very important details and history of what happend with her husband and seemed very hesistant to actually explain it? SHe didn't want Star to get suspicous of her and start to raise her guard. Why did she just start giving monsters back their lands from multiple generations ago without seeming to care what happend to the mewmans already living there nad wasn't botherring to rebuild any of the destroyed villages? Cause it was part of her plan to possibly drive mewmans out and give mewni back to the monsters fully. Heck even some of Moon's lines which are so non-sensical and stupid? Actually would have some foundation and weight to them coming from Eclipsa, such as her being mad she was seperated from her family in the big reveal scene for example. If those words were Eclipsa's? They'd be belivable and Eclipsa never really seemed allt hat upset over what happend to her. Serioulsy. Re-watch the last seaosn with hte idea in mind that Eclipsa was planned to be the villian and so many events just flow MUCH better. Even the entire thing with Mina and her army, would work MUCH better if Star and Moon had to work with her and help hr actually make that army to stop Eclipsa , but when they've won, Mina wants to go and wipe out all the monsters instead of just defeating them. The list goes on, butthere are WAY too many hints and plot points and the like that imply Ecplisa was suppoused to be evil or the main villain. Espcially given how it could of givne Star much needed character development and adressed stuff with the MHC.
Dominic Bisingano (is that how his name is spelled?) confirmed on his Tumblr that they were making up the story as they went along. Do what that as you will.
@@Commenter839 I belive it was also stated that the show was written as it was airing so that's also a factor i belive as well so they may of simpyl changed their mind or plans near the end.
@19:10 I think moons talking about herself there. The reason I say this is I KNOW THAT look anywhere, It's a face that "doesn't forget what they've done to someone". It's a truly horrible face only repentant sinners make, "The face of the guilty, That know they are guilty" some might say.
That's why I consider post S2 a fanfic that the original cast doesn't deserve to be linked to. It has a couple of flashes of brilliance but they're not worth the darkness.
She really was not a good Queen! Not just in Mewni standard's, but every standard of a ruler! True kings and queens are supposed to do what's the best for the people, not just give them whatever they want! Which is exactly what moon did with the whole song day thing, eclipsa and the solarian warriors She was giving the people what they wanted so she wouldn't deal with any more conflict! Look in the book of Jonah, the king of the of Ninevah knew his people had to repent, even though the whole kingdom wanted to do wickedness and most likely refused at first, He knew he had to give that decree so his people could be saved even if some didn't like it!
I have to admit, Mina annoys me on wasted potential - a magical girl years later that still thinks that monsters and shit need to be stopped like it's 1996? Great idea. The execution is garbo.
I remember thinking when I watched the finale, that destroying the magic at the end was interesting in concept but the execution it just didn't work. Mina was not enough of a threat that it required destroying the magic, and it didn't feel to me that the story was leading towards it. Like at the start with the toffee arc I always felt like the magic not being as good as we thought might become a plot point, since toffee seemed to have a reason to why he wants magic destroyed besides it being the only thing that can actually harm him. I think it would have been interesting if toffee was right all along, and there was something inherit to magic that caused problems. Maybe creating things out of nothing is causing issues in other dimensions, and the queens didn't know about this. Maybe the septerians came from one of these dimensions and when toffee discovered that the suffering of his kind was caused so mewni would prosper, he starts a war against magic itself. I dunno I feel like there were better ways to create a threat that would end with magic being destroyed.
I feel like it was rushed in this finale which was, like Star could of thought long and hard to stop mina and restore mewny. She could of fought for the place she was born in and tried her best to defeat Mina and then after that she could of gave up magic ENTIRELY and convincing her own mother too and living on earth to live more normal life and let Eclipsa be queen but they can still visit her and see how it's doing. And like 1-2 episodes is just a filler for the magic high commission learning how to co exist with monster and to see that they aren't bad guys but actually good guys.
I always wonder what would have happened if Moon didn’t attack Meteora when Eclipsa finally got through to her. Moon pretty much ruined the moment and got herself hurt. She should have stayed back.
While I do love the ideas of season 4, the executions were horrible! Personally I somewhat understand Moon's actions and the jelousy that caused, which was sadly either not shown or not developped properly (it's been a good long while since I've seen the show) - what I must say as a history nut, Dynsatical and familial revenges were quite common in "Monarchial era", especially in the medival period (less so as we approached the renaisance), where deposed monarchs would fight each other to get their power, title and/or money back, heck this even happened among nobility! My solution for the whole rulership dilema would have been to have a one generation dimonarchy! Where Moon and Ecipsa ruled as equal monarchs (like how it was in antient Sparta I believe) as while Eclipsa was the rightful queen, she was never given the correct education to rulership (as the crown has proved that's a very important factor in a monarchs success) and Moon, while not having the right to rule (both in law and morally) she had the experience and training required to be a leader - hence the solution to this is a dimonarchy, where Moon, while putting her experience to the right, also taught Eclipsa how to rule, while Eclipsa would bring the reforms needed - all while Meteora would be given the right education of rulership. But how would this play out in the show? This could happen for example in the scene where Moon is like "give me the or else" to Eclipsa, Marco would but in and be like "Stop! There is no need for this - I have a solution" and he would tell all about the dimonarchy system (basing of his idea from this stuff he learned in history class) and Moon would come to the whole realisation thing, apologises and agree to what Marco had said. Eclipsa would also agree since that would be a way for her to protect her family, but also put her kingdom back on its feet. And so they agree on it, they defeat the solarians somehow (like make a powerful spell cast by all 4 queens?), Star would go against her fate and prove everybody else, as it's always been in her character to do so and Marco would be hailed as a hero. Optionally, later in a alone scene with just Eclipsa and Star, with Meteora being visible from a distance, Eclipsa tells Star that she never quite wanted to be a Queen, that she would be perfectly happy living in Cottage with only her family to worry about; Star intervenes here and asks "Would you have liked to abdicate?" Eclipsa nods but says that she understands what is important for her kingdom and what she must do; she goes telling Star that she is too old to have another child, and doesn't know if her body could sustain and so she asks, while looking at Meteora, that in the case that if Meteora were to pursue something but not Queenship or if Skywhane forbid, something happens to Meteora, could she please name Star as the next inheritor of the throne while Meteora's child grows up and gets to decide for her/himself. Star responds "so you want to appoint me as Meteora's regent?" "Yes" and so the story goes, later it could be up to the writers whether the crown gets passed onto Meteora, Star or Meteora's child but nevertheless I think this would have been a much better solution to the whole monarchy and the right to rule question
I wasn't too against the ending of the show. And I'm not too against what Moon did. She could've changed her mind and felt a lot of guilt for not protecting her people of what she thought was a thread. Women can change their opinion on a whim. But, the problem is, they didn't show it. Eclipsa is amazing though, still love her.
Everything is exactly what I felt about Moon. Her character was one of my favorites until they completely threw her character. I would love to see you talk about Star’s character throughout the show in another video if you haven’t already!
God i hate the final season. So much character development and potential flushed down the drain. In my opinion, Eclipsa and Globgor were the only good thing about the final season. I absolutely agree with you on the fact it should have ended when Eclipsa and Globgor became king and queen.
I swear that the magic got DYESTROYED…. But the worlds merging …. I’m more or less convinced that the magic got a HARD reboot. That’s the only way this feels to make sense. Still I don’t think Star would have gone this far if it wasn’t for moon. Magic is never bad, nor is it ever good. It depends on who uses it. Star should have decided that magic gets a reset, so magic can exist, but it can stop the warriors. Or he’ll in the realm of magic, maybe have sections that are dedicated to spefic spells and cast the whispering where they have soloria’s spell. Or hell, they could have gone to a new dimension to find a spell or warrior, a magical robot, a crystal or something that could have stopped Mina. It’s magic, there’s a million ways around this!
I think how the writers made Moon the bad guy... might actually make some sense. Look at her whole life: She's been told one thing. To be Mewni's Queen! It's one of the few holds she has to her mother and her past from a young age. It must be a world-shattering blow to find out your legacy is a massive con-scheme and the throne was not actually Moon's due to Festivia being her first ancestor from the Pie people. But by now, in her adult years, Moon sees the throne as her idol. She is literally unable to seperate Moon Butterfly from the Queen of Mewni. Unlike her daughter and Eclipsa who never had that strong of an attachment to the throne, and were more sure of themselves as people. Moon's fall requires some subtext and some explanation as to what led her to make these villainous descisions. But it fit with her character, and makes her something of a foil to Star.
Also seeing how the people who left Mewni to live in the forest relied on her and her guidance, might have confirmed to her even more that Eclipsa isn't made to rule in her eyes and she's the better queen.
At this point, if I wanted Star vs to end the show and end that dumpster fire, I'd rather they would've taken the Devilman route with everything destroyed, only Glossaryck survives, he'd be punished by spirits who are higher than him, and he's forced to relive the entire series over and over again. But then again, that'd be WAY too dark. But that's just my opinion on what should have been had Cleaved ended the way it did.
I could understand Moon’s reasons for what she did but I don’t get how she blamed Eclipsa for her problems when Eclipsa was doing what any mother would do plus Moon went to her in the first place.
The twist with moon was just...no. It made sense technically, but it felt so wrong and out of place. I think I must have hated the finale because most of it has been blanked from my mind, but after a long time of thinking back to it I wish to say how I think it should have went: First off - I deliberated, and after a while decided- that Moon honestly should have been THE villain of the last season. No Mina. I think that a battle between mother and child would have been a emotional final battle (just realised as I'm writing how it ends up paralleled with eclipsa and meteora, but hey that works more). Moon might not be Mina, but god, does she have so much more motive behind her actions. She was also a girl brought up to hate monsters, and had her mother killed by them. Why wouldn't she hold resentment? She always did, and having her do now makes sense. So why couldn't Moon been the villain? Of course, getting to the magic stuff. I also thought it was kinda silly. Again, I can see the point, just not how it works into the story. So instead I bring this - Star is forced to fight Moon, who's anger, frustration towards the past, and bias against monsters has turned her into the biggest monster of all (I'm fond of the idea that Moon has not turned completely evil, but somehow the magic inside her has been corrupted). Star tries her best, but cannot seem to break through the corruption, and realises that the only thing she can do to save her mother is to destroy the magic forever. But it's a tough scenario - not an easy solution. Star has to rethink of a world made without magic - has to think of how the world would go back to normal. She has to think of the damage magic has brought as it became a game of power control from humans or monsters. More importantly, Star would not only need help to destroy the magic, but to somehow get through to her mother who seems too far gone. This would have brought up opportunities for Star to have a full, honest conversation - as well as Eclipsa getting her own say on their past and similarities. How she too has dealt things, how it made her who she was. How she can sympathise and feel for Moon's upbringing, but how war isn't the solution. Moon is, bluntly, a bad ass woman. But even the strongest can crumble in an instant. I think it would have made such an interesting debate between all three of them, as Moon is pro human, Eclipsa pro Monster, and Star as the middleground. (arguably though Eclipsa is also pretty middle, but there's a few problems with how chill she was with things, particularly when it came to her husband who likely killed many humans in his past. She comes across as no action I suppose, wanting to live in her safe space. A wanted, nice but not realistic lifestyle considering the tensions). I could go on more honestly (and I apologise if what I said is a jarbled mess hehe). I'm sure you'd wonder how I'd change the "starco" section of the finale but if you wanted my version of that we'd have to start from...oh I don't know, right from the start of the season? (that which would be MAAAAANY paragraphs long..)
I like what you said about the Mewmans. They’re incompetent, but that’s what happens when your entire diplomatic system depends on one person calling the shots. Now for Moon… 10:46 To be fair, Moon never said she wouldn’t get *involved*. She just said she wouldn’t stop Mina…which was technically still true by the end. Moon probably didn’t blame Mina for the monster party incident since Meteora ended up being as dangerous as Mina said she was (“The most dangerous monster in the history of Mewni escape!”). And Moon’s *definitely* not going to take responsibility for trying to finish off Meteora when she felt it was the right decision at the time. If Meteora was defeated, Moon would still be queen and Star wouldn’t have been forced into the same situation Moon was in as a child. Now, I’m not trying to say that Moon was right for what she did, especially since it would undo everything Star worked so hard for. But she’s *always* been hypocritical. She didn’t tell the MHC about Ludo stealing the book, but if she told them sooner, maybe they could’ve stopped Toffee. She says Eclipsa’s chapter is evil, but didn’t actually read it. She warms up to Buff Frog, but still keeps monsters out. I do think that’s Moon’s betrayal needed more from her perspective to show her line of thinking. But she’s not as rational as her demeanor may convey. I’m also not thrilled by you saying that many magical-based beings exist on Mewni, even though the MHC are the only victims you actually name (but Hekapoo being cool with dying is lame, I agree). We have absolutely no idea if the ghost queens needed magic or not to appear, and even if they did need magic, Comet and Solaria are clearly supportive of their respective daughters. Moon doesn’t need to feel bad for it. Solaria accepting Meteora isn’t out of character if she loved Eclipsa more than she hated monsters. The whole “mass genocide” thing feels overblown, but that’s a different discussion.
Watching the 4th season for the first time I hoped that the solution to "pledging to Solaria" would be a time travel or summoning the ghost of Solaria and her reconsailing with Eclipsa and actually seeing the monsters as people - maybe she could side with the warriors first but then see baby Meteora and realise she was wrong? It could be beautiful.
I think Moon never really processed the death of her mother and spent her whole life hidding behind her "duty" and "traditions" to avoid having to face those feelings. She had developed a pathological need to be in control and that things had to be in a certain way as a unhealthy mechanism to avoid facing the void her mother's death left behind. Her betrayal did not come out of nowhere it was just so damn abrupt, even that she thought she was perfectly in control and capable to twist the deal with the devil she made to her advantage was a perfect mirror to what she did with Toffee. I mean even magic itself did tell her that she was not supposed to be a queen anymore, but would be much better of making pie. The big problem was that they had only two episodes left and somehow had to wrap everything up, so they ended up with a barely working mess of a finale held togheter by spit and ducttape.
Imagine if all the past kings and queens of Mewni found out about Moon's treachery: Moon's mother in law: I knew it, I knew it! That Queen Moon was a troublemaker from the start! Moon's great grandfather: Well, don't look at me-- She got it from YOUR side of the tree! Moon's great aunt: She's just TRYING to protect her kingdom! Moon's second cousin: But-- If she's discovered, the Butterfly family will forever be shamed; Dishonor will come to the family, traditional values will disintegrate! Moon's great-great grandfather: ...Not to mention they'll lose the farm. Moon's mother in law: My children never cause such trouble, they've all became Men of Valor! Moon's great grandfather: Well, we can't ALL become "Men of Valor"! Moon's grandmother in law: No, your great grandaughter had to grow up to be a DOUBLE-CROSSER! *Arguing intensifies*
Here's a fun fact when the star vs the forces of evil movie came out the continuity writer for the show was not hired for movie and season and beyond that. The continuity writer name is on the movie but for only half of it after that they make cutbacks and infighting and it all hell from there. After that they assassinated characters and the character of Moon. They had a sniper rifle on her and the bullets were doused in poison and explosive rounds.
Please tell me this is a joke
@@dragonempress8367 I wish it was.
Where do you find this fact?
@@caiocesarmarques4765 there are TH-cam channels and documentaries on this. There was a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff with Star vs the forces of evil. There was a ton of infighting, the original voice of glossaryck getting arrested, directors and studio heads fighting each other. Creative differences, you can even check the episodes ending credits you'll see the person's name but they only worked on half of it then the rest of season 3 you don't see the name at all or the title. What they were thinking when they made pay cut they would cut the person who make sure the continuity is right is insane to me.
@@redmaxxs about Glossy's VA getting arrested that I know but I want to know more details about the infighting
"I stopped her from doing far worse."
- says the woman who gives a racist super soldier an army of racist super soldiers.
yet, apparently she acts like it's not a big of a deal when she tries to justify her decision like???
Also keep in mind that the creation of said super soldiers takes a toll on the soldiers mind and is likely to turn them crazy.
So she didn't just endanger all the monsters, Eclipsa + family and Star, Moon also seriously endangered the wellbeing of the people she supposedly wanted to protect from Eclipsas neglect
@@regenbogenwolf yet, she's easily apologized after that like it wasn't enough damage, hell even Star tries to act like she just "messed up" and hugs her cause she's mom.
Why couldn't moon give powers to racist that weren't over the top, insane, or tied to handle separations between peoples in a reasonable way for the sake self-preservation of both peoples? There are monsters and mewmans that would get along on this thing for the sake of securing their nations. Yes, even monsters could've helped out on this.
Seriously though what would she have done that's probably literally the worst she would have did.
For some reason I think of as an example "you basically handed bulletproof armor and a gun to a racist"
The idea of Moon being a twist villain wasn’t a bad one, they just executed it horribly.
It didn't work since:
A. They were insisting on making the MHC with Mina and magic the final enemy.
B. She's Star's mother.
C. "wut a tweest"
D. It was a part of the wider trend where only Star and Eclipsa with their subordinates among living Mewmans aren't in one way or another eternally hostile towards Monsters.
Since they were ultimately saying that the Mewmans were only dangerous to Monsters from magic and the actions of "bad" Mewmans manipulating them (I guess), combined with the show's protag centric morality and tweest writing, Moon got a stint where she played villain then got a quick and cheap redemption arc. Even Solaria got one when you recall that she's established as seeking the destruction of Monsters.
It rewound all of Moons growth just to re-establish that she had grown beyond her flaws. It was a bad twist.
There’s only one way I would’ve accepted Moon being the bad guy as executed: if she was thrown in jail. Can we normalize villains who enable or outright commit genocide *coughcoughTHEDIAMONDSANDSPINEL* actually getting their comeuppance? Either put them in prison or kill them.
@@LovelyLivelyVSay that to Dragon Ball fans in regards to the likes of Vegeta.
@@brandonlyon730 you say that, but vegeta redeemed himself and did all the things he did while under the thumb of frieza. Who is literally space hitler. Also, unlike the generals who were just following orders in ww2, vegeta was a child when planet vegeta was destroyed. He was brainwashed to be that evil. And he *still* managed to redeem himself after a lot of trial and error.
I definitely agree the show should have ended when eclipse and globgore became king and queen. It was such a perfect ending
Seconding so much
agreed
Third agreed.
And they ended Tom, Star and Marco with wholesomness and group family hug!
I don't think it was a perfect ending, but it was monumentally better than what we got
On the Mina thing, they picked the wrong voice for her. Wasn't she supposed to be a teen when she was first recruited? She sounds like some racist Grandma (which I suppose was their intent?) but giving her a typical magical girl voice would've at least heightened the disconnect between her mythical virtue and her actual insanity/bigotry.
In the old english dubs of sailor moon serena or usagi sounded just like an old lady 😂
@@maggiequinn. Ack! Dubs really were terrible back in the day.
@@Rosemont104 Yeah but they do have some funny moments that live rent free in my head
@@maggiequinn. in the Cloverway dub yes. Not so much in the DiC dub.
She sounds like Princess Carolyn, actually (sorry, had to)
I feel like Eclipsa didn't want to be queen but felt bad rejecting Star's sweet gesture.
I know! I like Eclipsa, but she didn’t give two shits about being queen. Nothing she did benefited the Mewmans at all. She only cared about the monsters and yes, while it’s good she wanted the racism gone, she never cared about anything beyond that. Remember when she moved the monsters into all the Mewman homes, without telling the Mewmans or giving them a heads up? Star had to swoop in and remind Eclipsa to actually do her job and be a queen to both Mewmans and monsters. If I was a Mewman, I probably would’ve ditched to go live in the wilderness too.
For all her stupidity in Season 4, Moon was right about Eclipsa being a horrible queen.
Who knows, maybe Eclipsa would've actually given Moon the wand if they had a compromise. Moon knows how to rule a kingdom properly and with Eclipsa, they would have found a way for Mewmans and Monsters to live in good conditions.
She probably didn't want to be queen in duty but knew that it was probably the only way she would have enough power to protect her family and actually make a change. Otherwise, I believe that she would be perfectly content in a little cottage a few ways way from society overall
Same. All she really cared about was her family. I personally think it would've been better if she accepted the throne on the condition that Star would be her successor once she became of age, with a sort of mentor - student dynamic that flips back and forth, since there's a lot of stuff they could've learned from each other.
Then we could've had more time and development with the monsters vs mewmans plot, plus Star being super involved with Eclipsa, helping her be popular and whatever would make more sense.
@@merlumili i considered that, but going that route means cutting her own daughter out of the line of succession. And we already saw that as an adult, meteora was mad enough to go villain over that happening before. It sets up a repeat of that conflict for the future. I do still love the mentorship idea though.
Season 4 made me REALLY hate Moon. Just everything she did in the 4th season ranged from making no sense to her being stupid. Like her not trusting Eclipsa especially makes no sense. You think as a mom, Moon would understand what Eclipsa did what she did!
Season 4 really soured my love for the show that it even made me lose interest in the fanfic I was writing for it(though I'm making attempts to get back into it)
exactly,i liked moon until season four in which she literally gets derailed
She was being out of character in season four
@@nicoleflores2054 this makes me wonder if svtfoe is a reason why the newer shows like Amphibia and Owl house are being denied extended seasons. Disney is avoiding over extending them like svtfoe
@@florencejohnpaclibar.1b872 well, Amphibia is ending in season three, it was never planned to have more seasons but the Owl house is a different story.
I like to think that Moons whole amnesia thing scrambled her brain and that's why she went from a character I liked to, well, *gestures at this whole video*
That would make sense.
Also,she lost memories of the trial she held for Eclipsa and believing she was good all along while in the magic dimension for a few days. The Moon Amensia plot should’ve never happened at all,along with the Starco plot,Moon’s hatred and mistrust against Eclipsa,Star returning to Mewni,and no trial for Eclipsa. Seasons 3-4 should’ve been non-canon after Battle of Mewni.
I think Moon didn’t get a 100% of her memory back and that’s why she is acting like a spoiled child making petty excuses to justify her actions
I've said it before and i'll say it again:
1) The final season should have had less shipping and baiting and Marco and Star should have been together in 2-3 episodes TOPS.
2) What you said about Moon needing a better motivation.
3) The final confrontation should have been about entering the wand and destroying the 3 spells needed to make a solarian in a raid boss battle style, shutting off Mina and her soldiers ( ONLY MINA AND HER SOLDIERS) from using magic.
@shaquille mccray th-cam.com/video/c4NI8o1FPPI/w-d-xo.html
The issues with the shipping really reflect how the overall plotting suffers from Star and Marco being the protagonists. The overall plot that they get wrapped up in concerns lore that they have no relevance to at all absent of personal ties (Marco) or are relevant by proxy while being obviously ignorant about it (Star). It goes in line with how every season's big threat (Toffee, Heinous/Meteora II, MHC with Mina) is either more of a nemesis to someone else (Toffee towards Moon) or Star is only an enemy by proxy (Meteora II and the MHC with Mina as their minion).
This impacted the fantasy racism since it means that Star and Marco were supposed to solve a problem that by and large went well beyond them.
@shaquille mccray "6) no shipping, focus on action and adventure instead."
I don't think there's anything wrong with having shipping in the show... This show just handled it really really really really REALLY REALLY REALLY R E A L L Y Bad.
@shaquille mccray I feel Moon needs to regain all of her memories and needs to accept the fact that Eclipsa wasn’t evil or dangerous and learn to come to terms on how hard she was on Star through most of her life. Also,Star Butterfly deserves a backstory like her mother and some better character development and I feel like Starco’s relationship should be short-lived if they broke up and Marco would try to get back together with Jackie-Lynn if the series was revived and undo all of the terrible stuff that ruined the series in the later seasons such as the romantic shipping and racist equality plots.
Daron needs to apologize(along with making the writers apologize) for ruining the show with the poor writing and character derailment,having a lack of creativity, focusing too much on romance and racism,and making the show end with the destruction of magic and learn to make up for her actions by fixing the problems by bringing the show back with the magic coming back thanks to Marco’s magic vacuum and Janna’s tiny unicorn under her hat resparking the magic and Star regretting her past actions and learning about her reckless,selfish,and immature behavior,and ending her relationship with Marco by telling the real truth on why she began to have a crush on him back in Season 2 and Marco getting back together with Jackie by apologizing to her and they both reconcile. Also,Star and Moon would be pointed out for their terrible actions and awful behavior(along with Star getting punished for her reckless and atrocitious actions and getting sent to jail)and Moon would realize how much of a harsh and unreasonable person she was all these years,along with forgetting that Eclipsa wasn’t evil or bad and being a harsh,overbearing parent to Star and putting so much stress on her and being haunted by Comet and Toffee in her nightmares. I feel Daron shouldn’t be the showrunner anymore and I feel a new showrunner and a new team of writers would improve the characters,plots,& characterizations,undo all of the terrible stuff in Seasons 2-4,make a self-deprecation episode making fun of Seasons 3-4,including the romance shipping and a caricature of show creator,Daron Nefcy,and have Star and Moon think more about their actions?
@@KichiMiangra Shipping only works if the audience likes the people being shipped... If the plan to make the ship work causes you to sacrifice the traits that made people like about the character in the first place, well you need to rethink your ship.
If the writers (and there were too many of them per episode) really wanted to regress Moon's character, then they should've shown us that transition, not imply it offscreen or stitch together brief, last-minute flashbacks. If they couldn't commit to making her a villain organically, then they should've just had a simpler story where she learned to get off her butt and help out again. That would've been perfectly serviceable.
Let's say, what if Eclipsa's coronation suddenly reminded Moon of the day her mother was assassinated? Moon was even going to perform a song for her mother's big day. Then maybe, in her grief made fresh again, she would've resorted to drastic measures? I dunno, something!
The writers were so in love with their petty love triangles that they pushed everything else to the side, crucial stuff like the relationships between Moon, Eclipsa, and their respective mothers, or the history of the previous Mewman-Monster Accord (aka the Peace Treaty). Sometimes I wonder if Solaria was supposed to be Moon's mother, but they changed it because they didn't want the heroine's grandmother to be a war criminal (oh the irony...)?
the real irony is, in the end, Toffee got what he wanted ''the magic is destroyed''
@@nickhubbard8640 "I guess Toffee was right"
@@nicoleflores2054 SURPRISE!
Mina doesn't sound too old in the flashback, so I think the VA did that since she had lived in squalor for the past 300 years. Also, I don't think they ever said she was a teenager. The Book of Spells doesn't and I don't think the show does either
They didn't commit to it (Moon being a villain) since the show always operated on protag centric morality. It's also what led to Hekapoo being handled how she was in the ending (being the only one among the MHC who was part of Marco's circle of friends). The show's makers were incapable or unwilling to make a conflict where the protags could come into serious confrontation with their family and/or friends, so they gave Moon a lazy redemption and retconned Hekapoo's personality (recall she was complicit in the conspiracy to hide away Meteora II to the point she was shocked when one of her team confessed).
I feel like the crew made this plot twist of Moon the final antagonist of the series because they thought bringing Toffee back was going to be redundant, Seth wasn't planned to appear on the series and they knew Mina didn't have the level to be threatening like Toffee, even if they tried very hard.
Feel like they should have used both Seth and Toffee
@@Padon84 Seth could had been a cool villain, is a shame they never used him in the series.
Eh, that point applies more to how they used the MHC. With Moon, it was really just how they wrote the fantasy racism ("the Mewmans besides the few exceptions like Star are buffoonish monster hating peasants who Star/Eclipsa would keep in line if it wasn't for their enemies ruining it") combined with how they had the Cleaved ending in mind ahead of everything so they puppeted the characters towards that direction (recall that Star refuses to consider anything other than killing magic to stop Mina, not even using scissors combined with dark magic).
@shaquille mccray There is no need to go so harsh on them. Yes, the show does go down hill but making and writing a show is a very difficult thing to do
How was Mina not threatening.
In her introduction she was already portrayed as some delusional demi-god.
The writers didn't know what they were doing.
Also, Mina as the final villain was a terrible choice. Star's temper tantrum and destroying magic was forced and was stupid.
The real threat was racism and refusing to change. Magic wasn't the problem!
Wish we got more episodes with Globgor and have a flashback with him and Eclipsa.
Moon betraying everyone, i agree with you Kitty Monk, it would have work of the MHC brainwashed her and lied to her or they took River hostage and threatened her to do this acts. Moon wanted to get rid of Eclipsa because of something Moon caused. She should have understand that Eclipsa was trying to protect her daughter. Moon acted irrationally. Also, Moon should have been more sympathetic and empathize towards Eclipsa and understand why she did that.
If Mina was going to be a big threat, have it where she and her warriors were planning to go to every dimensions to take over and kill everyone.
Star was stupid in season 4.
The writers ruined everything.
"The real threat was racism and refusing to change. Magic wasn't the problem! "
We're supposed to assume that magic/MHC was somehow responsible. I think the angle was that Mewmans were somehow manipulated into hating Monsters by magic/the MHC and that by destroying the world they'd stop ("burn down society and kill everyone who tells you what to do who gets in the way and every problem will be gone"). It's a confused metaphor.
Obviously the problem was that we're shown that Mewmans barring exceptions were filthy and monster hating peasants. Doubly if you include lore in books. I suspect the issue roots in that they reallllly wanted to have an ending where Star and Marco fix fantasy racism in a loud and exterme way where everyone sings kumbaya but couldn't figure out how to reconcile it from how they characterized Mewmans. So they went with MHC/magic bad.
@@galten7361 the whole thing was poorly written. MHC didn't stop to think that they were doing more harm than good because they were afraid that a monster would use magic. They didn't see that Mewmans are slowly accepting Eclipsa and Globgore and see them as good people. The whole thing about Magic being the problem is stupid because magic doesn't cause racism and make people racist. The MHC were created by magic, but they learned racism from Soloria and the Mewmans. They made chooses not the magic. We all know what happened behind the scenes causing season 4 to be ruined. It was mess the moment things change behind the scenes. They probably had a more better story for season 4, but got rid of it to make magic the villain.
@@AH-is5yg The MHC's characterization was shifted from "obstructive beauacrats who go along with whatever their Mewman constituents do while advising them" to "dastardly manipulating politicians who with magic are the real forces behind fantasy racism."
Hekapoo especially was an example of their problem with the bonus she was defined too much around Marco. It's really that they shifted Hekapoo's character to whatever she needed to be in the episode (trickster goddess opposing Marco in one, the one woman in the MHC and goes along with the others' plan, one of Marco's posse complete with an awkward attempt to bury his ship with her, the "good" MHC member).
@@galten7361 Hekapoo was an individual not a force of magic. Hekapoo still did some terrible actions that caused 300 more years of war against monsters and mewmans. Not once did the other MHC stop and think if what they're doing is right. They knew how dangerous Mina is and they let her do whatever she wanted even if she hurt innocent people. They didn't do anything to stop her when she was out of control. The story was a mess.
@@galten7361 The MHC's deaths were underwhelming. We don't see Hekapoo's death. I thought she see her hands deteriorating and realizes she's going to die. She smiles and drinks one more time as her send off. Moments before her death, she regrets her actions against Eclipsa and her family and wished that she should have accepted change 300 years ago. Thinks about Marco one more time.
As for the MHC, we could have see them dying. Before they die, they could have at least realizes that Eclipsa and others escape also learn that they are going to destroy the magic, but it was too late to act as they are dying. They get upset that they were killed by Eclipsa and her daughter. They see Moon and Star helping them and see this as a final betrayal. They failed to see that betraying the queen is what sealed their fate.
I have low self esteem and thus don't trust my own judgement in a lot of cases.. but as soon as the finale aired, even I trusted my judgement completely that it was absolute dogshit
Yay character devolpment
Congratulations the finale has cured your low self esteem
I was so mad at Moon about her saying Eclipse kept her away from her family, she was gone for a month, and Eclipse was away from her family for HUNDREDS of years. Eclipse thought her child has past away years ago she didn't even have a chance to watch her baby grow-up , learning that her daughter was gotten rid of, finding out that Meteora was still alive but became a angry soul sucking monster.
Didn't even have a chance to connect to her before Moon saying screw your feels I'm going to kill her and later with a broken heart Eclipse had to destory her herself.
Yea but none of the things that happened to eclipsa was done by Moon. Eclipsa's actions and interference directly effected Moon and did keep her away from her family, especially when you consider that Eclipsa stopped Moon from killing Meteora, only to just come to the conclusion of killing her herself. So technically Moon is valid in her statement.
@@drjones1020 So Eclipse should just stand there and let Moon kill her child. It doesn't matter if Moon wasn't the person who imprisoned Eclipsa, she should understand being a mother as well that Eclipse was protecting her kid. If Star became a monster do you think Moon would stand there and let someone kill her or stop that person from killing her and try to connect with her.
@@MsHood1986 I'm not saying Eclipsa should just stand there and do nothing. I'm just saying Moon is right in her statement where what happened to her is kinda Eclipsa's fault. It doesn't matter Eclipsa's reason is. I'm just saying what she did resulted in what happened to Moon.
On the one hand, I can kind of understand Moon's hatred of monsters. Seeing your parent slaughtered by such creatures is NOT an easy thing to get over. Still, when you see some monsters displaying a GENUINE desire to change their behavior; you should give them a chance.
Just look at Buff Frog, Ludo's former minions, Ludo's brother, the monster teens...each one of THEM wanted to stop fighting Mewmans and just EXIST on Mewni peacefully with everyone, later in the series. But what does Moon do...she creates a whole kingdom of racists and desired to either wipe out monsters or force her people into following an unreachable journey towards perfection.
Don't get me wrong, Globgore made HIS mistakes and Star is no saint either; she DID cause a massive genocide of magical creatures by destroying the Realm of Magic. But everything Moon did was basically what gave her daughter the idea to screw up royally (no pun intended)
If the past queens still existed either in the wand or in the realm of magic then why not just find a way to get Solaria to help them. With the little bit we got from her at the end with Eclipsa and Meteora it seemed like she would at least realize that something she started put her family in danger. It would still be out of character, but I could at least accept it better if she put aside her bias for the sake of saving her kid from an active threat only she could stop instead of her just being cool with it at the last second.
I think that would have been a better way to do things if they still wanted to have the big twist with Moon because they'd still get to have a lot of the same things, it would just fix the one big problem everyone had with it. You could still have Moon be the villain because there would be an opportunity for her to actually make up for it and admit she was wrong and you could still have Meena and some of the mumans stay biased. They could've avoided the implication of the main character willingly killing an unknown number of creatures by destroying something that existed before mumans came to munie in the first place. And as an added bonus they could've possibly left things open for a sequel series.
Season 4 just wasn't anyone's favorite.
@@untitled-gv3qp The only good thing I found in Season 4 was the fact that it made the only ship I cared about canon
Spider/Slime
She didn't actually see it happen but I get your point.
@@sadlobster1 I loved that ship too. Just wholesome and no drama involved
@@florencejohnpaclibar.1b872 Before the episode Surviving the Spiderbites premiered and officially made the pair canon, I made my own fanfic about Penny and Slime
Moon should've been arrested for keeping Mina's rebellion in secret, betraying her daughter, and nearly causing a mass genocide of innocent monsters.
they BOTH should be arrested, they put people in danger because of their selfish actions, yet they never get the consequences of their crimes
@@nicoleflores2054 YEAH!!!!!
@@nicoleflores2054 I agreed,Star and Moon deserve so much punishment for their actions.
@@Agumon90210 Same with Mina, like she tried to commit gen0c1d3 and she just gets off free?
@@kittykittybangbang9367 Mina should be dead at least, isn’t she thousands of years old? And how did she survived that unicorn attack? And why did Solaria suddenly betrayed her? She made Mina this way and then rejected her!
Perhaps you could one day do a video on the wasted opportunity that was Queen Comet? She was the only biracial queen (black mom, white dad) and the only one with butterfly (or moth?) cheeks. The fact that she nearly succeeded in doing what her granddaughter was trying to do in Season 3 is never brought up, especially not by Moon herself. Wouldn't Moon worry that what happened to her mother would happen to Star? They gave little to no context to the events that led to her assassination. Her status as a peace-loving chef and a dimensional wanderer in her youth is also never mentioned in the show.
Instead, Comet's only a plot device who only shows up in some old photos/paintings, which is why I feel nothing when Moon sees her ghost - that is, if those "grandmas" really were ghosts and not just stress-induced hallucinations conjured up by Star to assure her that her decision to destroy magic was totally fine! We never see any flashbacks of Comet and Moon together, we don't get a sense of what her character was like. She looks like she could've been a Snow White expy, like how Mina Loveberry was a Sailor Moon knockoff, but they did nothing to indicate that in the show itself.
Far-fetched rambling and speculation ahead: It's even more disappointing because she was hinted to be an important character as early as the Season 1 finale (Toffee's exchange with Marco was suspiciously centered around having his last meal, Marco sarcastically bragged about being a "good cook"), in throwaway episodes like Fetch (a dog runs from her problems and home dimension, is given a purple butterfly necklace, her owner was first believed to be a beautiful businessman) and Red Belt (Marco has a dream in green where he opens a purple locker with himself in a suit surrounded by purple Mewberty hearts) - all before she's revealed to have died in "Moon the Undaunted." It feels like vague setup to one of many plots that could've died when certain people like director Giancarlo Volpe left.
A lot of things were wasted. It's really a shame. The show used to be really good that Disney even wanted to make it their flagship show
@@florencejohnpaclibar.1b872 I guess it was because it began as a fun, American take on magical girls and starred a magical princess. If only it had stayed a magical girl/princess parody...
Love the idea that the ghosts were illusions Star made to validate her own oppinion of her actions being right or for the greater good when they really werent
@@AndromedaNull Even if the writers did not mean it, I couldn't see it being any other way. Star doesn't know these people, she only skimmed her book of spells and barely read past Skywynne's chapter. These queens say nothing, all stand and pose the same way (despite them having different quirks and personalities in the book). I understand that if they couldn't afford a new intro, they probably couldn't afford any new Prestige TV voice actors or actresses, but these "ghosts" only seem mad in Glossaryck's illusion and then seem happy once Star has made up her mind.
Actually Estrella, Comet's mother, would be the first biracial queen. Celena, Estrella's mother, is white so we can assume Estrella's father was a POC
Moon: I don't care that Mina is trying to kill Eclipsa because I'm not queen anymore
Also Moon, one season later: I want to be queen again and have joined forces with the person who wants to assassinate not only Eclipsa, but all of the monsters
Season 4 fucked up everything and this has to be the worst decisions that the writers ever did.
not only the plot twist doesn't make any sense, the execution made it even worse, Star and Eclipsa straight up forgive Moon because yes, even though she did a big mistake that cause the reasoning of destroying the magic.
Yeah. It should've end after Toffee.
@@kootunesscrewy agreed but to be fair, Eclipsa's villain foreshadowing would've been pointless if season three didn't happen.
This might be bad taste but. Miraculous season 4 and Star VS the forces of evil season 4. Ruining characters and the story.🤝
Yeah,this is why I consider all episodes after Battle of Mewni non-canon.
They should’ve gone a different route with the later seasons after Toffee. without the pointless romance triangles,shipping,hypocrisy,racial equality plots,character derailment,and destruction of world building.
I liked a lot of the ideas of Season 4. Mina as the big bad made sense; the story had been building to Mewni becoming more accepting of monsters who are shown to not be bad but in many ways victim of colonialist cruelty. Mina's the reactionary who can't accept that the old ways are gone and in many ways were always evil. I loved how Solaria shoots her the death glare as she's dragged under the water, and how even Solaria realizes the error of her ways in death.
"being a mass butcher is okay as long as you pet your halfbreed granddaughter"
Solaria gets a medal for not kicking babies now?
And trying to "heal" Mewni of its history wasn't working. Not how Star thinks it should go. Mina had an whole army's worth of volunteers to help her kill off the Monsters with no real opposition among the Mewmans besides Star and Eclipsa with their sidekicks. Eclipsa's scheme to seize Mewman occupied land and "Return" it to Monsters didn't end in riots (which realistically is what would happen) since the Mewmans who were kicked out moved away rather than be around Monsters (also plot magic).
Face it, what they were doing would've just seeded tomorrow's fantasy racewar if it wasn't for the writers making it go otherwise. Even Comet tried and she got assassinated.
Mina as the big bad would fit the overall story but her character did not fit the dynamic. When we see her she is always a silly insane parody of a magical girl, not a endgame villain that was treated as a bigger threat than toffee. Toffee felt a lot more threatening than she ever was but she was given the spotlight as the final villain instead of another character corrupt by old ways.
Wasn't it Solaria (the Queen) who took her (a peasent girl) and almost literally made her that way, the magic breaking her mind in the process? I thought that moment with Solaria was downright cruel and she of all people should have been the last one to pull that.
@@galten7361 It's more that she genuinely realized how wrong a lot of her prejudices were. And while the execution was flawed the underlying idea (the Mewman's being forced to acknowledge that the monsters were justified in being angry and that they had committed crimes that needed to be addressed) is a solid one. America has a hard time owning it's colonialist past
@@ryanmoore6259 Solaria was the one who led the genocidal policies to begin with. As it stands the show awkwardly tried to present Mina as just the "evil one" between her and Solaria even though Solaria didn't have centuries to live in battle and being empowered by magic meaning the queen was still within her faculties when she was being genocidal..
I'm only realizing this now, but Bubblegum and Moon are very similar characters. They're both leaders who care for their people but lead with a strict hand and do what they believe is best, even if its something bad. Both even betrayed someone close to them (bubblegum with fire princess) because they thought it would be the best for their people and left the kingom/their leadership for self reflection. Even though they're so similar, they're executed so differently. PB actually had consistent development in her character and feelings instead of flip flopping when the plot called for it.
Tbh, during the show we saw that Eclipsas way of ruling had mistakes and the changes were rushed. Like the family who got kicked out of their home because it (kinda rightfully) was given back to the monsters who used to lived there. Yet the family had no place to go and came home just to find their stuff packed for them. So there were people who have the right to be upset with Eclipsas handling of the mewan/monster relationships.
Also Eclipsas law of freeing all monsters from imprisonment was a bit foggy, cause I'm unsure if there are monsters who actually committed crimes and are on the loose, but of course the show doesn't want to address it.
Moon meanwhile seemed to have given those and other people a small and organized community, which they clearly needed because they were used to it and can't change on a dime. They even pointed out how they got used to Moon running things for them
It would make more sense if those people and moon got their own individual piece of land while trying to help them to get used to Mewnis changes, by seeing that Eclipsa and Globgor genuinely try to make Mewni a better place for everyone.
What I don't understand is why Moon was so quick to give into the hatred. Her issues seemed to be personal with Eclipsa and she also was enjoying her break. It's understandable that the mewmans ended up where they were, but Moon seemed a bit too rushed. They could have fleshed her corruption out if they wanted it so badly. Like, she could have been jealous that Star barely spends time with her and is more Eclipsas personal assistant/advisor. Wasn't that what sparked Moons anger? Being separated from her family.
Early on they kept mentioning "mewmen magic" For a while I thought that meant they had a completely separate source of magic from the other magic dimensions.
That turned out not to be true, but ironically it would have fixed a lot of the ending.
I mean imagine an ending where they reveal the magic temple is actually a syphon taking magic that would flow into the world and exclusively giving it to the queen. They could have built it so that the monsters couldn't use magic. But as a side effects only the wand/people connected to it can tap into magic, thus also locking magic from the common people.
It would even fit with the idea of giving people the tools to defend themselves.
Like the Central Finite Curve from Rick and Morty? That would work!
@@KittyMonk
The central finite curve separated dimensions, but this would absorb the magic coming into that one world. We see other worlds with magic, so that means mewmans would only be tapping into the magic in Mewni. Plus, we see that the temple was built over the entrance to the realm of magic. The only real difference is that they would be pumping the magic out of it like an oil well in this version.
When Moon Butterfly got her soul sucked out I believe her soul opened a portal to the realm of magic it was actually The magic acting on its own Think of it as a safeguard to keep Moon safe And return her soul it transported her to the magical realm.
As someone who didn’t watch this show entirely but still enjoyed the episodes I did watch… I can also agree the ending was just terrible. Mass genocide, open plot lines, character assassination (more ways than one), unfinished stories, complete 180’s. They could of done so much… and they did not CARE. They just did not, in favor of fanservice for SHIPPING.
Personally, I think the biggest mistake is the show trying TOO hard to subvert the "Eclipsa is evil" plot line.
Like the whole Mewmans are biased against her because she married a monster is OK. Like they can think she is a bad seed or whatever. But it makes no damn sense for everyone and their mother to insist on keep calling her "evil" when she is NEVER shown to do anything even remotely dubious (Except for like Mina doing it cause she's obviously crazy).
It's made even worse when she became a fan favorite character, so the show try super hard to make her and her family out as super nice without a single hint of them being bad. Cause we all know popular character can't be anything but super good right?
Once again that just invalidate anything and everything related to her "evil queen" title and reputation. It's all tell not show.
They made it so preachy too, even preachier than Zootopia. It's not a bad message on paper, but its execution made it less palatable to anyone over the age of five. It's as if the writers thought, "Subversion first, character later."
Moon not helping is like an arsonist burning down your house and a passerby who was a retired firehouse captain watch it burn to the ground because they were retired, and there was a new firehouse captain he didn’t like
TO THIS DAY I am STILL salty about how they handled rhombulus’s character in season 4, out of the remaining active MCH members he was the ONLY one that felt guilty over what they did to Eclipsa and her family(the fact that after 300 years the guilt is still there just as bad), Hekapoo & Omnitraxus were more upset that he actually told the truth when they were literally about to be crushed by their lies then they were about their part in the whole horrible event. I mean heck, when Star told the MCH to leave the war room after the events of the Trial Rhombulus was still the only one who felt guilty about what he took part in while the others were just annoyed that acting queen Star was actually still mad at them for what they did. And actually let’s talk about Star now, the only member of the MCH(aside from Glossaryck) that Star actually had a connection to and was able to bond with was Rhombulus! That man never felt like he was taken seriously by the other MCH members in his life and now he’s meeting Star who knows exactly how he feels and not only relates to him on that but also takes what he says seriously and vice versa, I’ve got no idea if he’s ever experienced that in his life but if he didn’t I’m sure as hell that man wouldn’t be picking the side of his MCH members who look down on him over his friendship with Star. But of course season 4 happened and instead of giving him a full on character progression based on his previous seasons actions(especially his guilty about the whole Eclipsa and Meteora situation) in which he might actually stand up against the MCH, they have Hekapoo be the “good” member who supposedly came to her senses and offered a bit of help at the very end of the show(despite the fact that it was extremely clear that that woman never felt a bit of remorse over what she did to Eclipsa and especially felt that the MCH was in the right for what they did to Meteora).
It’s been over 2 years since the show ended, I’m still seething over this.
THANK YOU, YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW MUCH I NEEDED THIS.
Rhombulus could've had a lot of potential and i don't see people calling out Hekapoo for her actions when she didn't regret what she did with the festivia situation. As much as i love her, she needed to be called out in the series but she never did.
Nicole Flores I mean let’s be honest here, I’m pretty sure Meteora & Mariposa didn’t end up going through that portal on their own and I doubt Hekapoo just “accidentally” left one of her portals open in the room that holds the baby she despises
@@jackierocha5096 right, especially the idea of telling Marco and Star to not go to Mewni because it's too dangerous!1! even though they literally went through dangerous situations themselves AND save Mewni. especially the fact that they needed to bring Meteora back to Eclipsa.
It seems that because hekapoo was a fan favorite character they prioritized her as the mhc member to ally the main characters, even if it didn't make sense based on her character's previous actions.
Even in the magic book of spells, omni was the one who wanted festi to be nicer to monsters and hekapoo wasn't, she even helped solaria in the war the most, she is the member whose most consistently racist towards them (and yes, that makes omni wanting them dead seem ooc as well).
Rhom and omni, the two members who were the most sympathetic do a complete 180, meanwhile the most racist member is the hero who never has to apologize for anything she did or show remorse.....
Rhom especially had a growing arc towards being the ally of the mains and the potential of redemption, but hekapoo is more popular so screw that natural arc that made sense.
You shouldn't choose characters based on popularity contests, cause just like jarco/kellco/tomstar ending...making abrupt choices like that with barely any setup are jarring and annoying.
I feel like a better way to do the ending is if Eclipsa and Star decided to officiate the Monster-Mewman Peace Accords by inviting the two sides to the agreement. However, Mina and Seth manage to convince their respective sides, and Civil War is inevitable once it's over. Now, it's up to the Butterflies to stop in an all-out war that will mean the death of both peoples.
I would also like is this is where the fact Moon didn't do anything about Mina to come back into play with Star blaming her for the fact she didn't even try to warn them and Moon feeling legitimately guilty for putting everyone in danger the way she did. I think this would also make Eclipsa and Star wonder if peace was ever truly possible within Mewni but Marco manages to remind them that they have made progress and things will change for the better and he's proven right because with a combined force of monsters and mewmans loyal to Star and Eclipsa, they manage to defeat the supremacists and save Mewni.
This twist came out of nowhere. Moon was supposed to be the smart, rational one - why would she think Mina would be a good partner? And what did Eclipsa DO? Her worst spell was technically her mother’s invention, and she & Globgor were pretty nice when unprovoked (and I’d eat the guy who threw my baby on the streets & had my wife imprisoned for loving me, too.). If Moon was concerned for the displaced Mewmans, why not take legal actions & file grievances before going straight to couping her way back onto a throne that was never meant for her?
Moon is my favorite character in the show. Always has and always been. Season 4 RUINED her. There is no justification as to why they ruined her character.
I kinda feel the thing with Solaria being chill with Meteora isn't as "out of character" when you realize she's been dead 300 years. That's such a long time that you could reasonably expect her to have a completely different personality, at least if the queens retain some level of consciousness after death.
I still am so damn bitter to this day for how this show ruined her character and omitted all the development she went through for a cheap plot twist
Also, agree about wishing we got an episode focused on Solaria and Eclipsa. I think the implication with her accepting Meteora was supposed to be that she really did love her daughter and wanted Eclipsa to be happy no matter what, but without really seeing that or even having dialogue, it does feel kind of rushed.
Plus, according to Moon, "it's my way or the highway".
For example, when Eclipsa was talking to her long, lost daughter, nobody was getting hurt. Eclipsa had it under control...
I swear, it's like she took the memories of "her realizing that monsters have families, too" and yeets it out of her mind.
Yes, I understood that she had amnesia, but she recognized her daughter and husband. If Jackie-Lynn Thomas could have a french girlfr- I mean "cool friend" offscreen, then what's Moon's excuse for relearning that monsters have families?
By season 3 the monsters and the mewmans had become so one dimensional and void of agency while the main characters were entangled in soap opera shenanigans that I stopped caring what they did. They had become podiums for the writers to scream that racism and imperialism is bad in the most unintelligent manner possible.
Maxwell Atoms once said, "Opinions are much more palatable when cloaked in entertainment." But nothing was cloaked or woven into the story here; it was placed on a soapbox and put on full blast. There was no entertainment to be had.
This is why I consider all episodes after Battle of Mewni non-canon.
Before I watch the video, I'd like to share a realization I came to about Moon about a week or so ago.
Moon Butterfly is probably the worst Disney Channel animated mom of at least the new era.
I came to this conclusion by watching both the Owl House and Amphibia. Camila Noceda has a hard time understanding Luz. But she realized that her mistake may have pushed Luz away and will accept her as she is because all she wants is for Luz to be safe. Mrs. Boonchuy knows that Anne can be irresponsible, but she was also able to see how Anne grew and changed and became a dependable young lady. Somehow, Moon failed on both parts.
Until the very last moment, Moon treated Star like a child. Despite the fact that Star proved she could not only handle herself, but also make good decisions. She was right to give the kingdom to Eclipsa. Moon wanted to take it back just as Mewni was accepting Eclipsa and Globgor and only because she was upset with Eclipsa. I understand Moon was upset that she was stuck in the Magic Dimension, but she let those personal feelings put everyone, including Star, in danger.
Even during Star's justified outburst, Moon treated her like a child throwing a tantrum. She didn't come to respect or understand Star's judgement. To her, Star was still an unruly child who didn't know what she was doing. And for a show that highlights the relationships between mothers and daughters for generations, it's sad that they never confronted that or fixed it.
Anyway, that's just my view on it. Can't wait to watch the video
Maybe this was because she was raised by whoever that "Aunt Etheria" lady was after her mother died? I thought she was going to be Star's grandmother at first, what with her being even more stiff and classist than Moon, and wanting her to have married a more suitable man than King River. Though Aunt Etheria was an inconsequential character who only showed up in one episode.
I still wanna know what happened to all those butterfly relatives! They could’ve provided another perspective and they’re retconned out after a single episode!
@@Rosemont104 I still don't know where tf they came from or why the aunt had cheeks marks. It seems like Butterflies get those marks from a) birth or b) being touched by the magic wand (in Festivia's case). So where does she even fit in? Is she a descendant of Dirhhennia? That wouldn't make much sense because to my knowledge, her sister Crescenta (deranged as she was) turned her and her boyfriend into wolves or something like that. I think maybe she could be a descendant of Jushtin which is why she has the cheek marks. Funny thing is that would actually make her more legitimate than Moon and Star
Surprised with the mention of Moon, Mrs. Boonchuy, and Camilla Noceda being compared, you never brought up other flawed Disney moms like Della on Ducktales 2017 and Nancy on Big City Greens as comparisons too (with both leaving their children at an early age due to their recklessness).
And her apology at the end was incredibly half assed and I resented that they made Star forgive her so easily. Moon has so much she needs to atone for and yet she probably never will 🤷♂️
Bro, when I first saw that Moon betrayed Eclipsa and Star I just thought, "Wait, wtf? Where did this come from?!"
It's like when a conductor of a train has two options of track but then picks the third option of just not using the tracks at all and driving into the ocean
Destroying magic is like destroying technology
Season 4 was very bittersweet because it made toffee's statement about magic right but in a underwhelming way. Oh there are a army of supersoldiers beating the crap out of us, let us nuke our capital city to get rid of them.
Not the best metaphor but my point should be clear enough. They really should have done something more than just have mina be a super predictable racist nutjob
It was poorly executed. I agree.
What I want to know is:
How did Star restore the magic AND get her Super Mode after Toffee destroyed all magic from inside her wand?
How did Marco survive getting impaled by the unicorn?
How is Pony Head still alive after magic is gone?
Because magic? Oh wait... Because of Ki?
Maybe not all of the magic isn’t gone
Man. I literally hope this show gets a reboot in a few years. They can include so much of the stuff from the book, like the fact Toffee was answering to an even more evil person who would've been the perfect final villain? and just in general fix all the dumb shipping stuff. I miss the first three seasons of this show man, they were fantastic
No reboot
@@ramdelure Disney showed they can pull it off with Ducktales.
@@thatoneguy5343 I can't accept a SVTFOE reboot
Yes,I want a reboot of the show that fixes most of the show’s problems.
@@McCraeTheMediaLover No reboot
They should've:
Used a villain that hates magic and seeks to replace it with science.
Bring back the animation from season 1. 4 is all too stale.
Get rid of those romance plots! Those are just filler.
Also:
-bring back Aunt Etheria from Game of Flags and reveal her to be her the proper reason why Moon is so mean to Star and have her stand up to her aunt for her toxic influence.
-Have Moon show no mistrust against Eclipsa and feels worried and sorry for her.
-Have the setting be mostly on Earth and Star return for a little more training rather than choosing to go back to Mewni.
-Give Star,Marco,and Moon actual proper character development and growth and have them actually learn to grow to acknowledge their own flaws and mistakes.
-Give Jackie,Marco’s parents,and Mariposa more screentime.
-Have Moon haunted by the ghosts of Toffee and Comet in her nightmares and learn about the truth of how Comet was killed by Toffee.
-have Moon and the Magic High Commission go to the Archives instead of Moon and Eclipsa.
-Actually,replace the animations from Seasons 3-4 with Saerom and Snipple Animation,they had way better animation than Rough Draft Studios and Sugarcube.
-Have Moon and Eclipsa ally with Star and help her fight against Meteora.
-Have Butterfly Castle repaired and rebuilt and not left in ruins after “Conquer”.
-Have Star and Moon attend family counseling sessions about their relationship,problems,and flaws.
@@McCraeTheMediaLover And eventually:
- Ending with Star and Marco being just friends, and Star is with Tom, and Marco is with Kelly after the break-up of the Blood Moon Curse.
Moon: YOU SEPARATED ME FROM MY FAMILY
Also Moon: *READY TO MURDER METEORA IN FRONT OF ECLIPSA WHO LIVED YEARS WITHOUT THE CHANCE TO FORM A FAMILY, AND EXPECTS HER TO DO NOTHING*
This is the worst ending ever in cartoon history and one of the reason is queen moon sudden personality change is dumb
So Eclipsa..... was a terrible queen. At the end of season 3, the Castle and the Capital City of Mewni are completely destroyed. A huge chunk of the population are now homeless and jobless, and, as pointed put in this video, Mewmans have been spoiled by the queen taking care of them for centuries. Does Eclipsa wave her wand and rebuild the city? No. Rather than help these people, Eclipsa spends a majority of her time trying to free Globgore, trying to win over the public through shallow spectacle, and displacing even more Mewman's like the Maizleys. The situation is so dire that they basically form a yurt kingdom under Moon because so many are homeless and starving, but Eclipsa doesn't care. Moon's sudden "create a deadly army to take the kingdom from Eclipsa" plan is way out of line and out of character. But Eclipsa's actions towards her Mewman citizens was no better than Moon's towards monster citizens in earlier seasons.
Yeah like, that one family that got kicked out of their home without being given a home. Eclipsa really didn't seem to care at all about Mewmans.
Right? Thank you! She doesn't even bother keeping track of when she's supposed to meet with the Spiderbites, people who are ON her side, but have very legitimate complaints! But she can't be bothered. She even steals someone's body without their consent to unleash someone the public views as a cannibal. Which, yeah, it's her husband, but if she's trying not to make herself look like an evil tyrant, she's failing. She really only cares about her family (Which is fine, but not for royalty) and that was why I could never get behind her as queen. The characters are always like "just give her a shot! she can be a good queen!" but every chance she had at being queen, she screwed it up.
Yeah, everyone 's character was done dirty
@@Aego384 Actually with that family in that Episode Moon asked the family did they speak to Eclipsa about them losing their home to the monsters and they said they didn't even talk to her. That is kind of on them. It doesn't seem like the mewmens ever TRIED to go to Eclipsa for help. She obviously didn't want to be queen but she wasn't like that to the mewmens out of malice where as the slaughter of monsters were completely out of malice
It isn't out yet, but I'm looking forward to this.
Something that occured to me as i was watching the final minutes of the video, if Solaria existed enough through the magic dimension/the wand[?] to manifested with sentience there i feel like they could of used that/her to get around the 'we pledged ourselves to solaria' issue which was the main problem with the magic knights.
Interesting. I thought something along the same lines. My idea was using Ronaldo to travel back to Solaria's time period. She'd refuse to believe the group at first but they'd take her to the present and show her the damage the Solarian Warriors are causing. She'd come to the realization that she went to extremes, strip the Solarians of their power and return to her own time.
Ugh Moon used to be my favorite character in the show. (Now it's Tom) But her betrayal ruined her for me.
I'm not even against the idea of itself. I thought it'd be a nice parallel between Eclipsa and Solaria. Of course it happened way to late in the show for it to have impact. Like what if the reveal happened at Cornonation instead. And there was barely build up or conclusion to it. If they went with the parallel root we could have even gotten an Eclipsa and Solaria flashback episode. Where Eclipsa convinced Star there's still hope her mother can change!
I swear though. Moon loseing it and screaming at that family to leave was one of my favorite parts of the show
I haven't watched the show since early Season 2 and seeing Buff Frog’s kids grown up warms my heart.
I will only come to the defense of one thing: It's visually implied that Moon DIDN'T know how to get to the realm of magic, but instinctively fled to there when being severely injured by Meteora's blast put her into that fight or flight mode. Just like how Star was going there in her sleep without intending to: They both had the yellow star eyes that they get when they're NOT controlling that forms actions.
Completely agree but i think the reason solaria is ok with meteora is her love for her daughter always outweighed her hatred for monsters, so seeing eclipsa happy with her daughter made her happy she could find that love too
I remember watching behind the scenes of SVTFOE years back. The way they had created episodes was a bunch of writers would be in a circle, and everybody took a turn writing a scene, and how it would go down. It made the show unique in a way, but if that's how they wrote the ending, then I wouldn't doubt that's why it was a disaster.
The butterflys in their butterfly form have a subconscious connection to the magic dimension
Moon being a villain makes sense.
She went through all the shit involving toffee, who she could have easily killed but didn't because it would have required her to release eclipsa, and she didn't because that was a bad thing.
... but what if it *wasn't* and her reluctance to kill toffee earlier before he almost killed star was entirely pointless. What if the entire system from which she drew power was basically a lie
Making Moon the mastermin behind Mina's rebellion just...comes out of NOWHERE. It doesn't fit with what was set up before, or with Moon's character arc and honstly just feels like it was thrown in for shock value.
We already HAD a villain in Mina and the Commission, Moon didn't NEED to be the villain (especially since afer the reveal she basically goes abck to helping the heroes anyway so what the fuck was the point).
and, unrelated but it was briefly brought up in the video, my main issue with Mina is mostly...she doesn't seem good enough to be the big final boss of the series. Sure she's powerful, but she's been largely used for jokes and is too crazy and dumb and lacks the charisma a good villain should have.
It was always my Headcannon that festivia hekapoo's daughter and all the equlipsa hate was hekapoo manipulating the rest of the MHC to put her daughter and her daughters family on the throne
Moon’s character got ruined in season 4. But one thing I can’t stand about Svtfoe fans is how much they trivialize her trauma and the circumstances she grew up in. People just water Moon down as some monster racist and doesn’t care about Star.
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Moon literally grew up at a time of war. Toffee killing her mom was the icing on the cake. The day that happened, was when Moon’s character took a turn from the worst. The weight of the throne and the fate of mewni was on her shoulders. Moon’s childhood was stripped from her.
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I guarantee you if comet was still alive, moon would’ve been a much better mother to Star. Comet was the only parent moon had and the only one she received genuine love from until she died. Then river came along, but he’s not her parent.
Personally I HATE that star was being built up to becoming queen her own way, only for her to throw it away.
Also, I think the finale should have been like this:
Mina being quickly defeated, like super quick.. Making use of a past element we know could work. ..
Father Time... Specifically based on the suggestion by someone to use the "time freezing spell".
Where they decide instead to see if father time could stop time for a bit, in such a way that they aren't affected, but everything else is.. Probably using those time medallions that we saw the time beings wear. *Remember.. Even Glosseryck was affected by the time freezing, so ALL the magical council would be affected too*
Then have Marco, Star, Heckapoo, and possibly Moon, Eclipsa, and Meteora wear them, and do the next phase..
Gather up all the frozen in time solarian warriors, bring them all to the nevezone, and position them in a big circle around the center.
In said center... Place the magical high commission including a fake heckapoo, but put accessories on them... Specifically "PRO-Monster" stuff, like "I heart monsters", "Mewmans suck", "I love septarians", etc.
With mina's mind set... She'd probably just shoot first, ask questions never.
Then before time resumes... Bring the surviving monsters to the temple location for quick healing after proper time.
As well as have heckapoo shut down ALL access to the neverzone. Trapping them there with mina, who has weapons that can kill anything.
Then when time resumes, they would start to heal the monsters.. BUT... That's when corrupted magic starts to pour in.. Corrupting them. Yes... Even Globgor.
Then bring them to the magic dimension *with pudding*, where they confront Tom and the evil unicorn.. But in doing so.. Two people end up corrupting..
Marco, which brings out a new monster/human form. *Think Marco with tentacle hair, and possibly arms. Glowing eyes, cape, etc*
He ends up turning good again to help star, tom, and the butterflies against the other corrupted person...
Glosseryck.. Who shows off his TRUE form and powers. *Big, Buff, and Blue*
Then when all hope seems lost, Baby shows up to help Star power up even farther..
Defeating Glosseryck, who gives her a final speech, yada yada. Giving her HIS position before melting into pudding
I mean come on, that would have shown she grew as a person.
"Does anybody else think Eclipsa should've adopted Star?"
To *AO3,* we go!
As i re watched the finale i think i got it. I think i got why the finale upset me so much. It was a subtle writing flaw that ticked me off as a writer that i didn't get until now. But now that i do ii understand why i still have issues. Simply put i let myself be confused by her wanting to stop mina. This is not important in the long run.
What upset me so much was that Star never considered all the problems for others not on mewni without magic(or the spells) . what star did was the antithesis of the whole show, she became what she hated, a queen making a big decision for everyone else without actually considering the wants and needs of others. That is why i was so upset. When you break it down that is so against what Star's character is that it's downright upsetting.
It sort of just...Makes her what she hated so much.
Someone who makes decisions for others, saying it's for the best without asking anyone else.
Literally her entire problem with the commission was this very thing and them lying about it saying ti was for the greater good of mewni.
She basically does the same thing
that feels so wrong
Its just...
So selfish.
And there are no real consequences or fallout of this that affects her in a negative personal way
It makes Star almost into a Mary Sue
Everyone loves her and accepts her decisions no matter what and faces no consequences for her actions
She kills magic and gets the guy in the end
Simply put it makes star a hypocrite. Think about it. Star is litteraly a giant hypocrite by the end of the series and nobody points this out or addresses it. Heck even most people pointing out the problems of the show DON'T point THIS out either.
Which is extremely ironic....Given Star's entire character was abouther NOT wantign to be like every other queen adn rebelling against that to do things her own way and be her own person.
You hit it square on the head.
Like they were clearly going for a “this is a last resort option where everything else failed” and somehow they fucked it up. You could maybe argue that Star had snapped after Moon’s betrayal but even then the show should’ve done better with it.
Eclipsa wasn’t even interested in taking the throne in the first place. Could’ve just had Star rule over Mewni up until Meteora was old enough and done. Or just flat out abdicate and have Star be her heir/successor. Easy and done.
But I do agree that with Moon. The show really dropped the ball and really messed with her.
I can feel pity that her mother was killed by Toffee, but then she goes around this “monsters are bloodthirsty” tirade and then she joins Mina to take the crown back? Like what?!
I'm still mad they didn't do the obvious thing and make Moon and Eclipsa joint Queens or atleast have Moon train her to help the people better. Eclipsa cares about the monsters while Moon cares about the Mewmans, the arc shouldve been them learning to work together to make Mewni a country for both groups to thrive. Instead they made her hate Eclipsa and send genocidal assassins after her for no reason
Persoanlly, I think part of the reason Moon is so awful in seaosn 4 and has lines and motivationst hat make no sense is beacuse ECLIPSA was originally planned to be the big villain of the last season. If you think about it it makes WAY more sense. II mean to be honest?
There were times it felt like eclipsa was purposely baiting the MHC to act overly paranoid and defensive over her to gaslight them and make them look bad in Stars eyes if you payed attention. But more importantly?
In the last season if you look at it's storyline and events with Eclipsa being the villain to be revealed at the end a LOT of stuff actually flows better/has an actual purpouse. Why was Eclipsa such a irresponsible and bad queen who seemed to have no idea what she doing, despite us knowing for a fact Mewni had barley changed from when it was her time? She was being bad at it on purpouse to distract Star.
Why was there the entire episode with the Spider-bites which told us that Eclipsa was very clearly hiding some very important details and history of what happend with her husband and seemed very hesistant to actually explain it? SHe didn't want Star to get suspicous of her and start to raise her guard.
Why did she just start giving monsters back their lands from multiple generations ago without seeming to care what happend to the mewmans already living there nad wasn't botherring to rebuild any of the destroyed villages? Cause it was part of her plan to possibly drive mewmans out and give mewni back to the monsters fully.
Heck even some of Moon's lines which are so non-sensical and stupid? Actually would have some foundation and weight to them coming from Eclipsa, such as her being mad she was seperated from her family in the big reveal scene for example. If those words were Eclipsa's? They'd be belivable and Eclipsa never really seemed allt hat upset over what happend to her.
Serioulsy. Re-watch the last seaosn with hte idea in mind that Eclipsa was planned to be the villian and so many events just flow MUCH better. Even the entire thing with Mina and her army, would work MUCH better if Star and Moon had to work with her and help hr actually make that army to stop Eclipsa , but when they've won, Mina wants to go and wipe out all the monsters instead of just defeating them.
The list goes on, butthere are WAY too many hints and plot points and the like that imply Ecplisa was suppoused to be evil or the main villain. Espcially given how it could of givne Star much needed character development and adressed stuff with the MHC.
Dominic Bisingano (is that how his name is spelled?) confirmed on his Tumblr that they were making up the story as they went along. Do what that as you will.
@@Commenter839 I belive it was also stated that the show was written as it was airing so that's also a factor i belive as well so they may of simpyl changed their mind or plans near the end.
I just tell myself that it ended with Eclipsa and Globgor getting reunited and then that Eclipsa was actually an amazing Queen, the power of DENIAL
Justice for Toffee, he was right all along according to the shows finale 😭
@19:10 I think moons talking about herself there.
The reason I say this is I KNOW THAT look anywhere, It's a face that "doesn't forget what they've done to someone".
It's a truly horrible face only repentant sinners make, "The face of the guilty, That know they are guilty" some might say.
16:56 Eclispa was protecting her cub and Moon reacted harshly, they’re both wrong.
I still Love Queen Moon but after season 4 I hated her for what she did. I swear season 4 ruined a lot of beloved characters in my opinion
That's why I consider post S2 a fanfic that the original cast doesn't deserve to be linked to. It has a couple of flashes of brilliance but they're not worth the darkness.
She really was not a good Queen! Not just in Mewni standard's, but every standard of a ruler! True kings and queens are supposed to do what's the best for the people, not just give them whatever they want! Which is exactly what moon did with the whole song day thing, eclipsa and the solarian warriors
She was giving the people what they wanted so she wouldn't deal with any more conflict!
Look in the book of Jonah, the king of the of Ninevah knew his people had to repent, even though the whole kingdom wanted to do wickedness and most likely refused at first, He knew he had to give that decree so his people could be saved even if some didn't like it!
I have to admit, Mina annoys me on wasted potential - a magical girl years later that still thinks that monsters and shit need to be stopped like it's 1996? Great idea.
The execution is garbo.
I remember thinking when I watched the finale, that destroying the magic at the end was interesting in concept but the execution it just didn't work. Mina was not enough of a threat that it required destroying the magic, and it didn't feel to me that the story was leading towards it. Like at the start with the toffee arc I always felt like the magic not being as good as we thought might become a plot point, since toffee seemed to have a reason to why he wants magic destroyed besides it being the only thing that can actually harm him.
I think it would have been interesting if toffee was right all along, and there was something inherit to magic that caused problems. Maybe creating things out of nothing is causing issues in other dimensions, and the queens didn't know about this. Maybe the septerians came from one of these dimensions and when toffee discovered that the suffering of his kind was caused so mewni would prosper, he starts a war against magic itself. I dunno I feel like there were better ways to create a threat that would end with magic being destroyed.
They could not stop mina she was about to genoicde monsters
I feel like it was rushed in this finale which was, like Star could of thought long and hard to stop mina and restore mewny. She could of fought for the place she was born in and tried her best to defeat Mina and then after that she could of gave up magic ENTIRELY and convincing her own mother too and living on earth to live more normal life and let Eclipsa be queen but they can still visit her and see how it's doing. And like 1-2 episodes is just a filler for the magic high commission learning how to co exist with monster and to see that they aren't bad guys but actually good guys.
This is why protagonist in any other show have only one surviving parent
I always wonder what would have happened if Moon didn’t attack Meteora when Eclipsa finally got through to her. Moon pretty much ruined the moment and got herself hurt.
She should have stayed back.
While I do love the ideas of season 4, the executions were horrible!
Personally I somewhat understand Moon's actions and the jelousy that caused, which was sadly either not shown or not developped properly (it's been a good long while since I've seen the show) - what I must say as a history nut, Dynsatical and familial revenges were quite common in "Monarchial era", especially in the medival period (less so as we approached the renaisance), where deposed monarchs would fight each other to get their power, title and/or money back, heck this even happened among nobility!
My solution for the whole rulership dilema would have been to have a one generation dimonarchy! Where Moon and Ecipsa ruled as equal monarchs (like how it was in antient Sparta I believe) as while Eclipsa was the rightful queen, she was never given the correct education to rulership (as the crown has proved that's a very important factor in a monarchs success) and Moon, while not having the right to rule (both in law and morally) she had the experience and training required to be a leader - hence the solution to this is a dimonarchy, where Moon, while putting her experience to the right, also taught Eclipsa how to rule, while Eclipsa would bring the reforms needed - all while Meteora would be given the right education of rulership.
But how would this play out in the show?
This could happen for example in the scene where Moon is like "give me the or else" to Eclipsa, Marco would but in and be like "Stop! There is no need for this - I have a solution" and he would tell all about the dimonarchy system (basing of his idea from this stuff he learned in history class) and Moon would come to the whole realisation thing, apologises and agree to what Marco had said. Eclipsa would also agree since that would be a way for her to protect her family, but also put her kingdom back on its feet. And so they agree on it, they defeat the solarians somehow (like make a powerful spell cast by all 4 queens?), Star would go against her fate and prove everybody else, as it's always been in her character to do so and Marco would be hailed as a hero.
Optionally, later in a alone scene with just Eclipsa and Star, with Meteora being visible from a distance, Eclipsa tells Star that she never quite wanted to be a Queen, that she would be perfectly happy living in Cottage with only her family to worry about; Star intervenes here and asks "Would you have liked to abdicate?" Eclipsa nods but says that she understands what is important for her kingdom and what she must do; she goes telling Star that she is too old to have another child, and doesn't know if her body could sustain and so she asks, while looking at Meteora, that in the case that if Meteora were to pursue something but not Queenship or if Skywhane forbid, something happens to Meteora, could she please name Star as the next inheritor of the throne while Meteora's child grows up and gets to decide for her/himself. Star responds "so you want to appoint me as Meteora's regent?" "Yes" and so the story goes, later it could be up to the writers whether the crown gets passed onto Meteora, Star or Meteora's child but nevertheless I think this would have been a much better solution to the whole monarchy and the right to rule question
I wasn't too against the ending of the show. And I'm not too against what Moon did. She could've changed her mind and felt a lot of guilt for not protecting her people of what she thought was a thread. Women can change their opinion on a whim. But, the problem is, they didn't show it. Eclipsa is amazing though, still love her.
Everything is exactly what I felt about Moon. Her character was one of my favorites until they completely threw her character. I would love to see you talk about Star’s character throughout the show in another video if you haven’t already!
“Okay, that REALLY dark”
That’s blues clues compared to other shit on Disney Channel lol
Wow I never realized people speculated on Moon going to St Olga's! It's so interesting hearing new theories even after the show has ended.
God i hate the final season. So much character development and potential flushed down the drain.
In my opinion, Eclipsa and Globgor were the only good thing about the final season.
I absolutely agree with you on the fact it should have ended when Eclipsa and Globgor became king and queen.
I’d like to pretend the ending of season 4 never happened and it ended at Queen Eclipsa’s coronation-
I swear that the magic got DYESTROYED…. But the worlds merging …. I’m more or less convinced that the magic got a HARD reboot.
That’s the only way this feels to make sense.
Still I don’t think Star would have gone this far if it wasn’t for moon. Magic is never bad, nor is it ever good. It depends on who uses it. Star should have decided that magic gets a reset, so magic can exist, but it can stop the warriors. Or he’ll in the realm of magic, maybe have sections that are dedicated to spefic spells and cast the whispering where they have soloria’s spell. Or hell, they could have gone to a new dimension to find a spell or warrior, a magical robot, a crystal or something that could have stopped Mina. It’s magic, there’s a million ways around this!
Wow I forgot how the S1 animation was, so boincy and full energy what happend in season 3
Three queens fighting for the good of mewni?
Star: *NO*
I think how the writers made Moon the bad guy... might actually make some sense.
Look at her whole life: She's been told one thing. To be Mewni's Queen! It's one of the few holds she has to her mother and her past from a young age. It must be a world-shattering blow to find out your legacy is a massive con-scheme and the throne was not actually Moon's due to Festivia being her first ancestor from the Pie people.
But by now, in her adult years, Moon sees the throne as her idol. She is literally unable to seperate Moon Butterfly from the Queen of Mewni. Unlike her daughter and Eclipsa who never had that strong of an attachment to the throne, and were more sure of themselves as people.
Moon's fall requires some subtext and some explanation as to what led her to make these villainous descisions. But it fit with her character, and makes her something of a foil to Star.
Also seeing how the people who left Mewni to live in the forest relied on her and her guidance, might have confirmed to her even more that Eclipsa isn't made to rule in her eyes and she's the better queen.
At this point, if I wanted Star vs to end the show and end that dumpster fire, I'd rather they would've taken the Devilman route with everything destroyed, only Glossaryck survives, he'd be punished by spirits who are higher than him, and he's forced to relive the entire series over and over again. But then again, that'd be WAY too dark. But that's just my opinion on what should have been had Cleaved ended the way it did.
I could understand Moon’s reasons for what she did but I don’t get how she blamed Eclipsa for her problems when Eclipsa was doing what any mother would do plus Moon went to her in the first place.
if you hate moon that much... i wonder how coming to terms with Solaria feeling the need to condescended Mina actually resonated with you...
6:26 yeah Eclispa wasn’t a good queen and should’ve thought of the Mewmans as well as the monsters
Cannibal implies he was eating his own species. He was not.
Idk why but moon is one of my fav characters
Queen Moon tripped and fell so Queen Angella could fly over her unconscious body.
Guess character assassination runs in the butterfly family.
The twist with moon was just...no. It made sense technically, but it felt so wrong and out of place.
I think I must have hated the finale because most of it has been blanked from my mind, but after a long time of thinking back to it I wish to say how I think it should have went:
First off - I deliberated, and after a while decided- that Moon honestly should have been THE villain of the last season. No Mina. I think that a battle between mother and child would have been a emotional final battle (just realised as I'm writing how it ends up paralleled with eclipsa and meteora, but hey that works more). Moon might not be Mina, but god, does she have so much more motive behind her actions. She was also a girl brought up to hate monsters, and had her mother killed by them. Why wouldn't she hold resentment? She always did, and having her do now makes sense. So why couldn't Moon been the villain?
Of course, getting to the magic stuff. I also thought it was kinda silly. Again, I can see the point, just not how it works into the story. So instead I bring this -
Star is forced to fight Moon, who's anger, frustration towards the past, and bias against monsters has turned her into the biggest monster of all (I'm fond of the idea that Moon has not turned completely evil, but somehow the magic inside her has been corrupted). Star tries her best, but cannot seem to break through the corruption, and realises that the only thing she can do to save her mother is to destroy the magic forever. But it's a tough scenario - not an easy solution. Star has to rethink of a world made without magic - has to think of how the world would go back to normal. She has to think of the damage magic has brought as it became a game of power control from humans or monsters. More importantly, Star would not only need help to destroy the magic, but to somehow get through to her mother who seems too far gone.
This would have brought up opportunities for Star to have a full, honest conversation - as well as Eclipsa getting her own say on their past and similarities. How she too has dealt things, how it made her who she was. How she can sympathise and feel for Moon's upbringing, but how war isn't the solution.
Moon is, bluntly, a bad ass woman. But even the strongest can crumble in an instant. I think it would have made such an interesting debate between all three of them, as Moon is pro human, Eclipsa pro Monster, and Star as the middleground. (arguably though Eclipsa is also pretty middle, but there's a few problems with how chill she was with things, particularly when it came to her husband who likely killed many humans in his past. She comes across as no action I suppose, wanting to live in her safe space. A wanted, nice but not realistic lifestyle considering the tensions).
I could go on more honestly (and I apologise if what I said is a jarbled mess hehe).
I'm sure you'd wonder how I'd change the "starco" section of the finale but if you wanted my version of that we'd have to start from...oh I don't know, right from the start of the season? (that which would be MAAAAANY paragraphs long..)
I honestly want a Moon and Eclipsa fight akin to Vakama and Matau's fight scene in Bionicle 3
I like what you said about the Mewmans. They’re incompetent, but that’s what happens when your entire diplomatic system depends on one person calling the shots.
Now for Moon…
10:46 To be fair, Moon never said she wouldn’t get *involved*. She just said she wouldn’t stop Mina…which was technically still true by the end.
Moon probably didn’t blame Mina for the monster party incident since Meteora ended up being as dangerous as Mina said she was (“The most dangerous monster in the history of Mewni escape!”).
And Moon’s *definitely* not going to take responsibility for trying to finish off Meteora when she felt it was the right decision at the time. If Meteora was defeated, Moon would still be queen and Star wouldn’t have been forced into the same situation Moon was in as a child.
Now, I’m not trying to say that Moon was right for what she did, especially since it would undo everything Star worked so hard for. But she’s *always* been hypocritical. She didn’t tell the MHC about Ludo stealing the book, but if she told them sooner, maybe they could’ve stopped Toffee. She says Eclipsa’s chapter is evil, but didn’t actually read it. She warms up to Buff Frog, but still keeps monsters out. I do think that’s Moon’s betrayal needed more from her perspective to show her line of thinking. But she’s not as rational as her demeanor may convey.
I’m also not thrilled by you saying that many magical-based beings exist on Mewni, even though the MHC are the only victims you actually name (but Hekapoo being cool with dying is lame, I agree). We have absolutely no idea if the ghost queens needed magic or not to appear, and even if they did need magic, Comet and Solaria are clearly supportive of their respective daughters. Moon doesn’t need to feel bad for it.
Solaria accepting Meteora isn’t out of character if she loved Eclipsa more than she hated monsters.
The whole “mass genocide” thing feels overblown, but that’s a different discussion.
Watching the 4th season for the first time I hoped that the solution to "pledging to Solaria" would be a time travel or summoning the ghost of Solaria and her reconsailing with Eclipsa and actually seeing the monsters as people - maybe she could side with the warriors first but then see baby Meteora and realise she was wrong? It could be beautiful.
I think Moon never really processed the death of her mother and spent her whole life hidding behind her "duty" and "traditions" to avoid having to face those feelings. She had developed a pathological need to be in control and that things had to be in a certain way as a unhealthy mechanism to avoid facing the void her mother's death left behind. Her betrayal did not come out of nowhere it was just so damn abrupt, even that she thought she was perfectly in control and capable to twist the deal with the devil she made to her advantage was a perfect mirror to what she did with Toffee. I mean even magic itself did tell her that she was not supposed to be a queen anymore, but would be much better of making pie. The big problem was that they had only two episodes left and somehow had to wrap everything up, so they ended up with a barely working mess of a finale held togheter by spit and ducttape.
Imagine if all the past kings and queens of Mewni found out about Moon's treachery:
Moon's mother in law:
I knew it, I knew it! That Queen Moon was a troublemaker from the start!
Moon's great grandfather:
Well, don't look at me-- She got it from YOUR side of the tree!
Moon's great aunt:
She's just TRYING to protect her kingdom!
Moon's second cousin:
But-- If she's discovered, the Butterfly family will forever be shamed; Dishonor will come to the family, traditional values will disintegrate!
Moon's great-great grandfather:
...Not to mention they'll lose the farm.
Moon's mother in law:
My children never cause such trouble, they've all became Men of Valor!
Moon's great grandfather:
Well, we can't ALL become "Men of Valor"!
Moon's grandmother in law:
No, your great grandaughter had to grow up to be a DOUBLE-CROSSER!
*Arguing intensifies*