To be fair, Daron thought Michael C. Hall was going to die of cancer before he made a full recovery hence why it went like that (though to me, the series should've ended on a high note with the TV Movie Battle of Mewni if they knew the show was going to be screwed up with pointless teen drama overtaking everything).
1.) I definitely belive that with a few tweaks here and there, "Battle for Mewni" could've made an epic series finale. 2.) I didn't know about Toffee's VA having cancer, but if that got in the way of things I think Daron still could've just found a new VA for the character.
@@roo1014 I don't know if anyone could do as a good as Hall did with the character but the show's writing cernalty needed to punched up for alot of the plot threads and characters that were strached out in seasons 3 and 4.
@@Just_Cheffin31 My Ideas: 1.) Seth to never be mentioned. 2.) Star never forms a crush for Marco. 3.) Erase the Blood Moon Curse 4.) Have Tom still be Star's boyfriend and be a supporting character through the seasons. 5.) Have Eclipsa and the other Queens focused on in one chapter of "Battle for Mewni" to tie in with Toffee and the whole Mewman vs Monster part. 6.) Have Marco's monster arm come into play again somehow. 7.) Paint Toffee as the whole leader behind the monster uprising. 8.) Give Star and Toffee a more epic and less rushed final battle. 9.) Give "Battle for Mewni" more than four chapters. 10.) End the series showing a more glorious Mewni where monster and Mewmans live in harmony, Star bestows the wand upon her oldest child, her daughter Capella. I also imagine her and Tom having a younger son named Antares.
The sad part about toffee is he feels kinda wasted as an antagonist, they barely explore his motives and his views all that deep when they absolutely could have. Its not awful what we have, but its mostly surface level. What happened with toffee was like if they killed off emperor belos and ignored nearly all the backstory elements s2 is giving him currently, and then followed him up with kiki as the main antagonist (granted, she'd definitely be more effective then mina ). And then also have Tibbles as the endgame villian. Ppl remember him because of the utter tone shift he gave the show, and how his presence changed up the format by addressing the butterfly family and what they did to monsters and monster kind. Bur also because of the mystery around him, as he had implications of a connection to marco and being directly affected by the monster massacre. The worst part is the book of spells had a perfect backstory for him to set up his goals and views and we barely see any of it. Toffee was by no means perfect, but he made a good impression for a reason, its just a shame he got such an anticlimactic ending with little follow through and the mysteries surrounding him was either never touched upon or retconned by the crew.
Or worse yet, if the Avatar crew suddenly killed off the Fire Lord, Azula, or Zuko before we truly got to know any of them, and instead put that one-time bully character from that fire nation school Aang attended incognito into the "final villain" slot? Then we'd never get episodes like "Zuko Alone," "The Beach," or Azula's descent into madness. In Star's case, it seemed like the writers would put forth an interesting concept, like "what if the monster-loving heretic was a good guy?", only to go, "Now what?"
@@Warriorcats64 a suicidel, abusive and sologamist father. Glossaryk made Lekmet with the sole purpose to die and could not be understood all but one(Rhombulus), treats Rhombulus and Reynaldo the Bald Pate poorly, facked brain damage thought season 3, put Toffee anti magic crusade, feels that magic was a mistake and doing everything in he to set things up so that magic could be destroyed and he could die.
And you know what, you could have had Toffee come back two ways 1: As a hallucination. Similar to my favourite Teen Titans episode, Haunted, Star (Suffering from the aftermath) starts to hallucinate Toffee and starts to think that he might still be alive. It turns out to be a hallucination, but then it would hint that he is still alive 2: Imagine if his scattered body parts could help him respawn?! I mean, if I recall, Star locked Toffee’s eyeball in her closet. What if the eyeball grew into a new Toffee who still retains memories of his death? Toffee knew he’d want Star to think he’s dead, so he’d lay low until he came up with his ultimate comeback. Toffee’s own ‘new blood’ if you will (Ba dum, tss) Then it would be revealed to Star that Toffee is alive and is more of the Magneto type of villain. He wants to kill the Mewmans and rule Mewni so monster kind wouldn’t be wiped out. Then you could have had Mina be the secondary antagonist to Toffee. Which will lead Star to try and stop a war between monsters and Mewmans and leave the shipping wars aside because that is ultimately what ruined the show And I do agree with your statement, it would be like killing off Belos and replacing him with Kikimora! But Daron killed off Toffee and replaced him with Miss Heinous who had a good backstory, but was just forgettable (No offence to Jessica Walter, she will be missed). And Mina was just a fun character when we first met her, but then she became some forgettable xenophobic villain with no personality except…..she’s racist And to think, Michael C Hall starred in two shows before New Blood that died before they finished. What are the odds?
Toffee’s calm nature compared to Ludo’s freaky, lashing out behavior makes Toffee more intimidating in my opinion. Plus, we don’t really know much about him until season 3 comes around, and then we know a bit more about his backstory. He’s just a cool villain. Off topic thing, but his outfit he had during the flashback when Moon met Toffee was pretty cool. But yeah, Toffee is my favorite villain for this whole show
Speaking of Moon's past, people seem to like "Moon the Undaunted" because it's a flashback episode, but as far as flashback episodes go, it was pretty barebones. The viewer is dropped into the middle of a "race war" with little context, and Princess Moon had no personal connection to the man himself (and killing her mother, whom we never meet, offscreen doesn't count). They were never friends, associates, or anything like that. Any monster could've killed Moon's mother, and it wouldn't have made a difference in the grand scheme of things. And as a "Revenge episode," it certainly doesn't hold a candle to "The Southern Raiders." At least Katara met the perpetrator before he did the deed and years after in a more substantial, life-changing way. We even got to meet her mother briefly, and see how brave she was to lie for her daughter.
@@Rosemont104 come to think of it, would have been really neat if Moon had met Toffee before he killed her mother, more so, she thought he was a cool monster and trusted him and monsters in general. But then he betrayed that trust and murdered her mother in cold blood along other monsters that supported him, prompting a need to get revenge on not just him but all monsters as a result. She overgeneralizes, sure, but at least we'd understand why she would. Then their connection would have been stronger, and her panic when she found out he was behind it all in the S2 finale and S3 premiere would have made much more sense. I really should rewrite this series huh? I feel like there's so much you can do better.
@@StarcoFanatic I always thought Moon and Toffee had a deeper connection similar to your suggestion. A rewrite that implemented such an idea would be great to see.
Star Vs. was so directionless, Toffee was such a great villain. He deserved to be in a better show cause the character worked so well. I don't know how anyone working on it didn't think that having SOME general idea of what to do with the villains would be okay. We got stuck with Mina Loveberry when she was trash when Toffee was a great villain.
@@joyc.e.7511 we didn't. And they never even mentioned him in the show, only in The Magic Book of Spells. Aparently, Daron thought that it would be a great idea to never mention or put her main antagonist in the show, even tho the other writers were constantly teasing us with "Seth is still alive, and he is somewhere out there".
Truth be told, I think a lot of why Toffee works as well as he does is everything you mentioned in addition to Michael C. Hall's excellent vocal performance mostly because it feels like he's channeling his performance as Serial Killer Dexter Morgan from Dexter but aimed at a younger audience.
Toffee the ultimate example of a villain so good that it make rest look like weak Substitute or at a very least a decrease trajectory of big villains of the season by season
@@liviwaslost not unpredictable, he is rational, competent in all the was an adult. His motives where clear in hingsight he just dont make the mistake of leak enough information that you had enough to figure him out.
Even the show's supplementary material had next to nothing about him. And your first impressions hit the nail on the head - the writers promised substance and gave us none with this character.
Me: Poor Toffee. He died as he lived. Star: Underestimating my family and their magic. Me: Being wasted potential once his time in the sun was finished.
Regarding the hair scene with Ludo, I don't think Toffee knew about his birthday party. He likely caught Ludo's moment of weakness and capitalized on it.
I think this is shown with Toffee's expression when Ludo was heading for the wand. I think he expected him to fail long before then, and was like oh shit, oh no, he's actually doing it, and then of course he fails because of his hair weakness, which he may not have known about but used to his advantage once he did fail. It's also possible he caught on when Ludo's reaction implied he was afraid of the house of hair for some reason and that's why he egged him on to continue the hunt, expecting him to fail because of that.
That scene where toffee goes from serious to SURPRISE still makes me laugh like crazy. Like I can see his mind just counting down till star makes that shocked face and his inner villain just gives for that one moment to let him celebrate.
Actually, the line star said being "the calls are coming from the house" was firstly from the Christmas horror "black Christmas" to which both svtfoe and risk and Monty used for a reference.
They really had no grander plan; it was a typical Strong Female Character ™ intro. Clearly, the show was supposed to be a mindlessly fun, episodic magical girl Spongebob and they added "social justice" as a theme and "mysteries" later so that viewers who liked wannabe anime like Steven Universe and mystery shows like Gravity Falls would latch on.
I think one of my biggest issues with the writing of SVTFOE is shown through Toffee and Seth. I shouldn’t have to seek out supplemental material (especially PAID supplemental material) to fully understand background information and a character’s motives. “How did Toffee know so much about the Butterfly family?” answered on a website, not in show. “Who was Moon’s mother and who killed her?” answered in the $20 Magic Book of Spells. “Who was Seth?” Actually a very important character to the lore, but never mentioned/shown in the series proper. We still don’t even fully know Toffee’s thought process for attempting to destroy magic. The show wanted to lead you to think Toffee wants social change, but even that’s not fully explained. Toffee wasn’t right, I assumed he was just salty that he was embarrassed by magic users twice. Once by Meteora and once by Moon. I dont know I just… it could’ve been phenomenal, but that’s not what we ultimately got.
Exactly! But what did they deem important enough to answer in the show itself? "Will They or Won't They?" *gag* The creator's two fave episodes are super revealing; I'm not sure if she liked "Into the Wand" for its potential, or if it was because it was an "easy ratings grab," just like "Booth Buddies."
My opinion is that Toffee didn't simply write "Give Ludo the wand" in the fortune cookie because he wasn't aiming to get it in that moment, what he wanted was to use the opportunity to get a read on who Star is as a person to figure out how to defeat her in a situation where he will have the clear upper hand with no interruptions and nothing getting in his way (aka how he managed it in the season 1 finale). In the same way, he didn't immediately get rid of Buff Frog and Ludo but took a couple episodes to get full power because he needed to figure them out as people too. He is smart and conniving, but in a realistic way where he needs to get to know his enemies first rather than just.... Immediately being good at everything. And he's a schemer who wouldn't jump on the first opportunity he's given without making extra sure he has everything under control.
Seriously I feel like if they hadn't killed him off so early we've wouldn't have been left with so many unanswered questions. The fact that he even knew about the whispering spell means he would have had been close to the butterfly family. Seriously they should have kept him alive.
I'm still a bit confused about why this whole "whispering spell" was such a deal for Star and Toffee if the wand just... repaired itself? And what did Toffee got out of this? The wand wasn't destroyed after all. Maybe he didn't know the spell works like that but then how did he corrupt the wand? Was it an accident? Was it a plan? Honestly, I'm not sure if I'm a bad listener or too stupid for a kid's cartoon. Or is the show just a mess
It allowed Toffee to go inside the realm and he manipulated Ludo. In retrospect, why he didn't just outright destroy magic there and then is a mind-boggler.
I think it comes down to poor planning. In my hypothetical rewrite someday, I'd probably have the wand be useless for a while afterward and part of S2 is spent trying to revive it somehow. That way we see why Toffee wanted her to use the Whispering Spell; it does render her wand useless which was an end goal of his. Of course, Star does manage to revive the wand eventually, but by then magic is corrupted due to Toffee being pulled into the realm of magic, so it malfunctions just like in the actual show, but she initially writes off her wand's malfunctions as part of it being broken, not realizing it's because of magic getting corrupted. Heck him corrupting the magic could even be a sort of Plan B for Toffee; Star revives the wand, so clearly the Whispering Spell isn't enough to render the wand useless forever so he tries something else
Toffee just makes me sad cause as soon as he got back he died. For some reason they toss the "magic bad" shit in at the last minute yet decide to go with an antagonist who has fuckall to do with that theme. There was still so much to explore with him. We have no idea what the hell his deal was, where he really comes from, or why he got rid of the wand. What a waste man
Couldn't say it better myself. In my opinion he should had much more complicated ideas then destroy the magic thing. Also adding to what you said why he knows so much on magic and whats going on with his strange connection to Marco (that dream)
All these recent videos on the show have really made me want to take a crack at rewriting the series, in the form of fanfiction of course. Like rewrite it from the beginning, but keep it mostly intact except for fixing the major glaring issues, and take the opportunity to expand on Toffee's lore and motivations while I'm at it 😛 Because yeah, I've been reminded that it's super sad what they did with him. So much wasted potential, especially since the show went on for four seasons and he was the main villain of an entire season of the show.
@@StarcoFanatic i’d be pretty interested in reading a fanfic that explored toffee more. it felt like he was pretty much gone after he came back to life
Toffee is a great villain because he stands out as the calm and composed manipulator in a show that centers around passion and chaos. Whenever he appears, the tone shifts, the stakes get higher, and everyone is left wondering just how things will go now that he's involved.
Wait... most of the monsters, at least the ones that were present in the last episode of season one, actually survived the explosion. We see Boo Fly, Big Chicken, the one with the two heads, the Giraffe monster, and many others later in episodes. Sure, just as background cameos and for one-liners, but they didn't die as you said. At least not all of them.
Because he was the first hint that something was going on behind the scenes of all this. The first glimpse into the deeper mysteries of this world, and the first to acknowledge that something more was going on than one rebel princess playing with magic beyond her ken. The fact that he hid himself, making others the front, and eventually set the ONLY trap in the series that worked towards what it was meant to do, a feat no one else achieved over the course of the game save maybe the party box against the Council(And even that failed to drive them to action). Of course, that is one of the reasons why the lack of follow up with him in the greater scope of things feels awful. Eclipsa and Globgor were interesting ideas, but this was a fully realized big bad, who had quirks that never got explained, and of course, his seeming interest in Marco several times in the first season, which also got no follow up, as he didn't even interact with him in season 2. Oh, and the way he was taken out is still the cheapest of all the villains in the series. Like, he came back from vaporization, but then suddenly Star can kamehameha him, a move that does NOTHING to anyone else. It's just cheap, and shows how they had a plan only up to the start of season 3.
I remember at the time how obsessed the fandom was with Toffee, the replacement "villains" aka means to show systematic oppression and the ugh... love triangles didn't replace the void he left! What happened to the dad's staff, I mean it's a crescent moon. It's perfectly symbolic for something that got established later that Mewni is matriarchal, if I'm remembering correctly.
It's funny how close OK KO came to having an "improvement" on something of a "Toffee type" with Professor Venomous, but even that had to be taken behind the barn because of the show getting cancelled. The similarities are really remarkable, and I sometimes say that he and Lord Boxman are basically just Toffee and Ludo if they were in love with each other. (Man, and a sandwich held a lot more weight in OK KO than it did in Star, also...)
*SURPRISE* Who might have become my #1 favorite villain ever, even more than baddies like Bill Cipher, the Great Diamond Authority, King Andrias, and Emperor Belos. Heck I might even place Toffee next to Silco from Arcane. As someone commented on Blue Order's review to this show and how it came completely undone in its third and fourth seasons . . . "This show's biggest crime was to introduce the best, most attractive, most intelligent villain ever and completely shoot him in the foot." Daron and her crew made hundreds of terrible decisions with this show, but one of the top worst in any show has to be completely killing off your best antagonist too soon with a very rushed and anticlimactic death. What was going through Daron's head when she decided to ditch the series' story halfway through, Toffee even hinted it wasn't over, you can't just drop and ignore that. Toffee may be badass, cool-looking, threatening and all that, but a lot of villains tend to be overpowered. He's (just a guy), a somewhat retired war commander/general type of guy, but just a guy, he doesn't have some insane strength or Godly power. His most noticeable weapon is his 10 Million IQ brain, he carefully planned out each step he took and his plan succeeded in the end. By the end of the series he was the only villain who didn't get off the hook, he was the only one to have actually died, and he was the only one shown to be in the right. It really sucks because out of every character in this show, he had the most potential, especially if you take into consideration his boss! 😲 For those of you who don't know in the official "Magic Book of Spells" a septarian warlord called Seth of Septarsis was dedicated. He's behind the whole rebellion against the Monster King and he led the war against magic and Mewmans. With Toffee as his loyal puppet, Seth was the motivation for him to kill Queen Comet and Queen Solaria. This overarching plot we had, Seth is behind all of it. He would've made an awesome endgame villain. This is a crucial peice of the backstory we got a taste of in "Battle for Mewni." Seth, Toffee and this whole story we only got a paltry fragment of, this would've been the perfect continuation for the show and they did absolutely nothing with it.
If you not consider season 3 and 4 as canon. People ask you who is main villain?, Correct answer is Ludo and Toffee. YES!!! "ONLY TOFFEE" is wrong answer.These two are both main antagonists of the series (whole first two seasons,those didn't suck). Just like star and marco (two characters) are main protagonists.
Yes, and it's why I started to really love the show. Toffee brought with him a much more different mood, and coming from the heels of Gravity Falls at the time, I sensed "overarching villain" vibes from him as a result. I was hooked to the show after his debut in Fortune Cookies.
Tofee i feel embodies the best and worst aspects of the series as a whole. Concept wise he's really investing and interesting. He has just enouph to him to make you invested in him and enjoy his scenes. But also is just vauge enouph for you to speculate and want to learn more about him. But he falls apart if you put him under teal scrunity as almost everything about him is set up. But no pay off. The entire show can be critized to have this problem. Lots of good set up and ideas. But bad pay off if any with too much put into books that barley seem canon as they are outright ignored or contradicited in some cases to try to fill in the gaps that are glaringly overiousl I feel that again, the relationship drama is to blame and the will they won't they with Marco and Star. In season 3 and 4 there is SO MUCH of this and it takes up so many episode sand time that the acutal plot and story is forced into the backseat. And while that's a whole discussion for antoher time. Tofee clearly suffered for this. WHatever we were meant to learn about him was proibbly put on teh back burner time and time again or simply was never worked out. Yes it's true that Tofee is interesting beacuse of his mysterious nature. But you need to actually reveal what that mystery is to make him truly interesting. I think Daron didn't want to actually reveal to us whatever Tofee's true backstory or name was, as she was too invovled in teh fandom and attached to the idea that TOfee's myster was his best aspect and just...Stuck with that. And foucused on what she also thougth people wanted. Star and marco's relationship drama. Forgettign that the plot and lore of the series is some of the best things about it
He was honestly the most interesting character in the entire show, anytime he shows up, you know something bad is going to happen. I'm still a bit salty that the unknown backstory of how Toffee knows all these things is shafted for the worst love triangle you've ever seen 😒
I'm sorry, but he was one of the biggest disappointments of this show. It feels like they had a concept for him, but didn't really have a clear direction for him in the story. We know next to nothing about him. No clear backstory, no clear motivations, we do not even know his real name, but that happens, if you want to focus on shipping instead. The Starco ship ruined Toffee as a character.
Michael C. Hall was a Prestige TV actor too, I cannot understand why they'd waste his talents in favor of becoming the animated equivalent of a generic, soapy teen drama.
It's definitely an utter shame. Toffee is singlehandedly the only reason I even started liking the show in the first place. The Starco fangirling started way into Season 2, long after Toffee had sold me on the show so it was never my main focus and I hate that it became the show's main focus and sidelined everything that made it interesting.
He had so much potential. And the show could easily bought him back after he killed off. But to did nothing with him. It was like he just there to help bring back Eclipsa.
I will always see toffee as the main antagonist for the entire show. sure he died at the beginning of season 3 but he's the only villain who's evil influence remained throughout the entire show this show has 4 major antagonists, each of them primarily taking the villain mantle for one season season 1 had ludo as the main villain, even though he was overthrown by toffee in the finale he was still the main antagonist for pretty much the entire season season 2 had toffee as the main villain, even tho he didn't make a single physicsl appearance in that season and ludo was the one doing all the evil stuff, ever since the season 2 premier, toffee had been controlling ludo behind the scenes making him to exactly what he wanted season 3 had meteora, who was built up as the main antagonist for the season mostly in the second half of season 3 and season 4 who had mina as the antagonist, which was an interesting twist after setting up eclipsa as the final villain so much in the season 3 finale but let's look at these characters and their history of villainy throughout the show first we have ludo, who was nothing but a simple antagonist for star in season 1, pathetic and not at all threatening, but in season 2 he gained a wand and thanks to that and toffees manipulation he was able to conquer all of mewni and have everything he's ever wanted (except a big boy body). but after toffee is killed once and for all he enters a redemption arc, where he struggles to fight his old urges to search for stars wand but really does want to become a better person and by the end of the show he's just living his best life in a new home he built with all his siblings. he was a villain for a total of 2 seasons before turning good for the rest of the show now there's meteora. she was a super minor antagonist in the first 2 seasons, but around halfway through season 3 she realizes her true past and grows to a huge beast and tries to take back the throne of mewni that's rightfully hers. but by the end of season 3, she's turned into a baby again by eclipsa, and for the final season of the show shes a protagonist and last but not least mina. shes introduced as a protagonist in season 2 whos just kind of crazy and has weird world views. shes portrayed the same way in season 3, good intentions, bad actions, and by season 4 shes a full on antagonist using the solarian armor to take back mewni for queen moon who she believes deserves the throne. thats 1 season of villainy. and even if you want to argue she was an antagonist from the start thats 3 seasons of villainy finally let's look at toffee. hes a pretty major antagonist in season 1, introduced near the end of the season but in only a few episodes he manages to completely overthrow the main antagonist of season 1 and gets star to destroy her wand, cleaving it into 2 and fusing him into the realm of magic just as he wanted, setting up step 2 of his plan. in season 2 he plays a background role, the main antagonist but using ludo as a puppet to get what he wants, having only a few actual lines in the entire season. in season 3 he makes his long awaited return, getting his finger back, and regaining his physical form. hes killed not soon after that by star and ludo though, marking his actual death in the show. he never comes back. but he's still a relevant antagonist for the rest of the show. his influence is still clearly present. we get a cameo from him in a flashback episode with glosaryck and meteora, a few mentions of him from characters, and by the end of the show star realizes that destroying the magic is the right thing to do and has a shocking realization that toffee was actually right all along. its a crazy revelation and in my opinion way more satisfying for his character than another resurrection would be. sure he's not the big bad final villain of the series but he remains relevant even well after his death, and he is the only villain in the entire show with evil influence for all 4 seasons and for that reason ill always consider him THE villain of svtfoe
honestly, i hated this show since episode 1. i found star irritating, marco just rubbed me the wrong way, the short bird guy and his goons were too stupid for even an idiot like me to enjoy watching. Then came toffee. toffee was the one character i was actually rooting for anything good to happen to, i wanted him to win.
Spoilers ahead. Toffee had the PERFECT set up for a villian. Truly great. But they ruined it. Toffee was a scheming villian, even if on the same side you never knew whether you weren't his true target after all. His first move was to infiltrate, take over and dominate a faction. He removed everyone he couldn't control or might overrule him. He was a coldblooded monster in a world full of rainbow and magical girls. He was the "Forces of Evil", after he arived it was established that monsters themselves were not evil. As long as there is a wand Star might get it back. The audience knew that she would steal it back somehow. This is why the show had to destroy it, while making it a character defining moment for Star. Everything about destroying the wand felt final. ... Too bad that Toffee was ruined. Suddenly, everything was about his finger. Star restored the wand which felt very cheap. Then he was kinda there and kinda not, a lot of teen drama happened and I lost complete interest in the show. I watched a video about the ending out of curiosity, turns out that Toffee was a secret good guy; everyone at the end agreed to just destroy magic for good.
15:50 "The best spy is the one that doesnt know he is one" Toffee was cruel to Bullfrog and got him kicked out, while Star was shown to have her morals turned and started to be friends with him... Toffee was like Aizen, or Obito. Villan that stayed in hiding and acted as a side character to move his chess pieces along the planned actions.
I used to watch SvtFoE a lot when it was still new and airing, and Toffee really hooked me in. Sadly, after him, I lost major interest in the show, the direction felt so off and it was hard for it to keep my attention. I still adore Toffee, I really wish they did more with him.
idk what it said after but the first thing that i think it said, and a couple of fans seem to agree with, was "I was never your wand" (also hi, been watching yours and some Star versus content cause is in my head rent free)
I find the way they handled him in the show to be missed opportunities. We all thought there was going to be an epic final battle. Like he wasn't defeated for good. He would return. He said how he made the plans. How he knows all would play out. We all thought this. And we thought he would return in the series finale and an epic finale against him and maybe Seth as the final antagonists. But no. They kept Toffee dead and they just made Seth dead from the very beginning and instead we got Mina. Heinous was a good villain because she was a tragic character driven to madness by her rough history. Toffee was a good villain for the opposite reason. He seems to have been the only villain in the show that felt like an actual villain. An overarching threat. An actual evil. And many people would often speculate. Often question the mysterious nature and it's that sense of mystery of who he is and what his plans were that led many people to speculate about him. So to kill him off so anti-climatically. And they don't do anything else with him afterwards outside of a flashback where they traveled into the past. It's just disappointing. Then again a lot of things about Season 4 was disappointing.
Unlike King Andrias; this reptilian business beast, along with Lord Dominator, and Bill Cipher used to rule the fandom by storm but as years went y; some pretty forgotten any of these awesome villains exists let another no successor or someone (or soemthing0 could ever hold the torch or overthrown him wearing the crown of begin the next "Biggest Threat Among The Rest". If your still tired of "Twist Villains" Disney used to do awhile back In the early mid 2010's era, your truly not missing out cause him and even Professor Pericles are Indeed one of the most rarest and villainous gems alive. He didn't need to kill one of Star's Friends (except using Marco as bait the one time) nor needed a villain song to explain what he's like though It still would've been cool If he and Eclipsa had some chemistry together or even as wild teens of their youth If they chose a new different direction instead o what we got.
I just realized something. Remember Lobsterclaws? Given Moon's line about the threat if the Wand falls into the forces of evil... He's probably one of the few definitively evil characters in the show given he transformed into a super evil demon when he had the Wand.
I read the creator stated that Toffee didn't expected Star to come back and defeat him. They stated that Toffee snapped when his plans fell apart. He was unaware that he was a sacrifice to release Eclipsa. He would have been upset that he wasn't in control of his own life.
His death doesn’t make sense It was not the Septerian Killing spell or the kill everything spell, he even was alive after that and that he got killed by a Pillar is wierd They even planned to bring him back (Season 4 episode 1 and 2 showed alot of Toffee references) but they favored shipping and racism plot and shoved a **DeStInY** thing into it Which is a horrible excuse for a bad ending
@@fighter0056 Wow, his death was supposed to be Eclipsa's released, but I guess the writers mess up a lot. If the writers were planning to have him come for season 4, it have would been that after Ludo crushed him, Eclipsa would be released. She said the deal as long as Moon aim the spell directly at his heart in which Moon did at the beginning of season 3 and this lead to Eclipsa being released. Toffee is furious that his planned failed and glossaryck knew his plan would fail. Toffee will think that glossaryck used him to have Eclipsa released. Toffee would see that he used as a puppet this whole time.
@@fighter0056 i mean 'if he was brought back as a ghost.' Plus, before he was crushed by Ludo, Toffee really snapped into insanity when all his plans failed in season 3.
I loved Toffee but his back story was extremely anti climactic, he did all of that just for a finger. His origins weren’t that good to me personally but as a character he was great.
it wasn't just for his finger. his finger was a statement. he was an unstoppable force before he lost his finger, the loss of his finger insighted fear in his whole army, giving the impression that maybe they can be defeated. when toffee got his finger back it was a symbol that the septerians truly are a force to be reckon with, and if he showed his old army that he returned with his finger, it would've reinvigorated them to overthrow the butterfly monarchy, and without magic thay would've been an easy feat. unfortunately for him, star learned to dip down and channel her butterfly form, ultimately leading to his death
@@chickennoodlegamer915 that would’ve all been great if they Portrayed it more and focused on those aspects front and center in the show instead of briefly showing some of the events and expecting the audience to put 90 percent of the pieces together without proper build up or development even on Toffee’s part with a POV or deeper character arc analysis.
@@bendu8282 true I agree, im just a person who digs deep into every aspect of a narrative so when something doesn't make sense on the surface I usually dip down for the chunks of the lore. thats mostly why i only actually recognize like 2 valid plot holes in this shows entire story. but it is true that the show should be more up front with a lot of its lore because not many people will dig that deep into it
The writers lump all of the monsters all together just like Mewmans did even though in the show it doesn’t seem like in universe where the are different monster species some that are allied with the Mewmans , some are so much more powerful than others like Globgors people compared to any other monster the could have shown the different monster species not getting along with each other or how monster religion worked
Okay so, for all Star vs and The Owl House fans out there...I have a serious question. _Toffee vs. Emperor Belos:Who do you think is the more effective, manipulative villain of their respective shows? Not necessarily the BEST, but rather, which one is more manipulative and EFFECTIVE?_ I await all your intershow comments and headcanons and theories below!!!! 😁.
they should not have just killed him off in season 3 really wish they kept him so that they could dedicate more episodes to this gem of a character instead of bullshit love triangle episodes
Me, reading the thumbnail: Because people thought he was hot. Sorry I just had to do it, I was laughing too much at myself. Fandom culture really changes a person like I said that with the straightest face before laughing
Overall, I think the endgame should’ve been Toffee coming back and teaming up with Marco, with the latter having been affected by the Neverzone’s different time and having a thing against magic. Star, on the other hand, would have to convince Marco that magic isn’t all that bad. Combine this with Marco being a mewman and part of the true Butterfly lineage and you get something insanely interesting for a finale. That’s just my thoughts, though.
For the part when the horse was whispering into her ear, I think it said "I was never your wand" wearing headphones can help if you have a hard time hearing it
TOFFEE WAS FUCKIN PERFECT, AND AWESOME AND AMAZING AND BEAUTIFUL AND SO WAS STARCO, YOU TRY MAKING A BETTER SHOW, DARON WORKED HER FUCKING ASS OFF ON IT. AND U TRY MAKING A SHOW WITHOUT SHIPPING! !
Theres tons of shows that don’t focus on shipping/don’t focus on it much. And she wasn’t even criticizing Toffee and even if she was, people have opinions. Not surprised something like this comment is coming from with that profile and ships Bill and Dipper, but calm down 💀
Before I even watch the video. It's because he's the only good character in the story. They wasted such a good character, I still struggle to get over it.
To be fair, Daron thought Michael C. Hall was going to die of cancer before he made a full recovery hence why it went like that (though to me, the series should've ended on a high note with the TV Movie Battle of Mewni if they knew the show was going to be screwed up with pointless teen drama overtaking everything).
1.) I definitely belive that with a few tweaks here and there, "Battle for Mewni" could've made an epic series finale.
2.) I didn't know about Toffee's VA having cancer, but if that got in the way of things I think Daron still could've just found a new VA for the character.
@@roo1014 I don't know if anyone could do as a good as Hall did with the character but the show's writing cernalty needed to punched up for alot of the plot threads and characters that were strached out in seasons 3 and 4.
Where did you get that from? From what I found Hall went into remission years before Battle for Mewni.
@@roo1014 I was thinking the same thing, but what kind of tweaks?
@@Just_Cheffin31 My Ideas:
1.) Seth to never be mentioned.
2.) Star never forms a crush for Marco.
3.) Erase the Blood Moon Curse
4.) Have Tom still be Star's boyfriend and be a supporting character through the seasons.
5.) Have Eclipsa and the other Queens focused on in one chapter of "Battle for Mewni" to tie in with Toffee and the whole Mewman vs Monster part.
6.) Have Marco's monster arm come into play again somehow.
7.) Paint Toffee as the whole leader behind the monster uprising.
8.) Give Star and Toffee a more epic and less rushed final battle.
9.) Give "Battle for Mewni" more than four chapters.
10.) End the series showing a more glorious Mewni where monster and Mewmans live in harmony, Star bestows the wand upon her oldest child, her daughter Capella. I also imagine her and Tom having a younger son named Antares.
The sad part about toffee is he feels kinda wasted as an antagonist, they barely explore his motives and his views all that deep when they absolutely could have. Its not awful what we have, but its mostly surface level.
What happened with toffee was like if they killed off emperor belos and ignored nearly all the backstory elements s2 is giving him currently, and then followed him up with kiki as the main antagonist (granted, she'd definitely be more effective then mina ).
And then also have Tibbles as the endgame villian.
Ppl remember him because of the utter tone shift he gave the show, and how his presence changed up the format by addressing the butterfly family and what they did to monsters and monster kind. Bur also because of the mystery around him, as he had implications of a connection to marco and being directly affected by the monster massacre.
The worst part is the book of spells had a perfect backstory for him to set up his goals and views and we barely see any of it.
Toffee was by no means perfect, but he made a good impression for a reason, its just a shame he got such an anticlimactic ending with little follow through and the mysteries surrounding him was either never touched upon or retconned by the crew.
Or worse yet, if the Avatar crew suddenly killed off the Fire Lord, Azula, or Zuko before we truly got to know any of them, and instead put that one-time bully character from that fire nation school Aang attended incognito into the "final villain" slot? Then we'd never get episodes like "Zuko Alone," "The Beach," or Azula's descent into madness.
In Star's case, it seemed like the writers would put forth an interesting concept, like "what if the monster-loving heretic was a good guy?", only to go, "Now what?"
Yeah, Tibbles does kinda remind me of Glossaryk. I mean what the hell is Glossaryk otherwise?
@@Warriorcats64 a suicidel, abusive and sologamist father. Glossaryk made Lekmet with the sole purpose to die and could not be understood all but one(Rhombulus), treats Rhombulus and Reynaldo the Bald Pate poorly, facked brain damage thought season 3, put Toffee anti magic crusade, feels that magic was a mistake and doing everything in he to set things up so that magic could be destroyed and he could die.
@@mr.end-game711 These seem like things Tibbles would do if Tibbles had more characterization.
And you know what, you could have had Toffee come back two ways
1: As a hallucination. Similar to my favourite Teen Titans episode, Haunted, Star (Suffering from the aftermath) starts to hallucinate Toffee and starts to think that he might still be alive. It turns out to be a hallucination, but then it would hint that he is still alive
2: Imagine if his scattered body parts could help him respawn?! I mean, if I recall, Star locked Toffee’s eyeball in her closet. What if the eyeball grew into a new Toffee who still retains memories of his death? Toffee knew he’d want Star to think he’s dead, so he’d lay low until he came up with his ultimate comeback. Toffee’s own ‘new blood’ if you will (Ba dum, tss) Then it would be revealed to Star that Toffee is alive and is more of the Magneto type of villain. He wants to kill the Mewmans and rule Mewni so monster kind wouldn’t be wiped out. Then you could have had Mina be the secondary antagonist to Toffee. Which will lead Star to try and stop a war between monsters and Mewmans and leave the shipping wars aside because that is ultimately what ruined the show
And I do agree with your statement, it would be like killing off Belos and replacing him with Kikimora! But Daron killed off Toffee and replaced him with Miss Heinous who had a good backstory, but was just forgettable (No offence to Jessica Walter, she will be missed). And Mina was just a fun character when we first met her, but then she became some forgettable xenophobic villain with no personality except…..she’s racist
And to think, Michael C Hall starred in two shows before New Blood that died before they finished. What are the odds?
Toffee’s calm nature compared to Ludo’s freaky, lashing out behavior makes Toffee more intimidating in my opinion. Plus, we don’t really know much about him until season 3 comes around, and then we know a bit more about his backstory. He’s just a cool villain. Off topic thing, but his outfit he had during the flashback when Moon met Toffee was pretty cool. But yeah, Toffee is my favorite villain for this whole show
Speaking of Moon's past, people seem to like "Moon the Undaunted" because it's a flashback episode, but as far as flashback episodes go, it was pretty barebones. The viewer is dropped into the middle of a "race war" with little context, and Princess Moon had no personal connection to the man himself (and killing her mother, whom we never meet, offscreen doesn't count). They were never friends, associates, or anything like that. Any monster could've killed Moon's mother, and it wouldn't have made a difference in the grand scheme of things.
And as a "Revenge episode," it certainly doesn't hold a candle to "The Southern Raiders." At least Katara met the perpetrator before he did the deed and years after in a more substantial, life-changing way. We even got to meet her mother briefly, and see how brave she was to lie for her daughter.
@@Rosemont104 come to think of it, would have been really neat if Moon had met Toffee before he killed her mother, more so, she thought he was a cool monster and trusted him and monsters in general. But then he betrayed that trust and murdered her mother in cold blood along other monsters that supported him, prompting a need to get revenge on not just him but all monsters as a result. She overgeneralizes, sure, but at least we'd understand why she would.
Then their connection would have been stronger, and her panic when she found out he was behind it all in the S2 finale and S3 premiere would have made much more sense.
I really should rewrite this series huh? I feel like there's so much you can do better.
@@StarcoFanatic I always thought Moon and Toffee had a deeper connection similar to your suggestion. A rewrite that implemented such an idea would be great to see.
Star Vs. was so directionless, Toffee was such a great villain. He deserved to be in a better show cause the character worked so well. I don't know how anyone working on it didn't think that having SOME general idea of what to do with the villains would be okay. We got stuck with Mina Loveberry when she was trash when Toffee was a great villain.
Worst part? They got Toffee's boss, Seth, but decided to stick with Mina Trashberry as the endgame villain.
@@OverLorD768 which is better a racist psychotic prick or a immortal reptile fascist
@@OverLorD768 Did we ever meet Seth? I think I remember him being mentioned, but that was it.
@@joyc.e.7511 we didn't. And they never even mentioned him in the show, only in The Magic Book of Spells. Aparently, Daron thought that it would be a great idea to never mention or put her main antagonist in the show, even tho the other writers were constantly teasing us with "Seth is still alive, and he is somewhere out there".
It seems like Star vs probably would have been a better show if it just was episodic instead of serialized.
Truth be told, I think a lot of why Toffee works as well as he does is everything you mentioned in addition to Michael C. Hall's excellent vocal performance mostly because it feels like he's channeling his performance as Serial Killer Dexter Morgan from Dexter but aimed at a younger audience.
Toffee the ultimate example of a villain so good that it make rest look like weak Substitute or at a very least a decrease trajectory of big villains of the season by season
Plus, he is unpredictable and someone you take seriously
@@liviwaslost not unpredictable, he is rational, competent in all the was an adult.
His motives where clear in hingsight he just dont make the mistake of leak enough information that you had enough to figure him out.
Even the show's supplementary material had next to nothing about him. And your first impressions hit the nail on the head - the writers promised substance and gave us none with this character.
In other words, (outside of two small things in the Book of Spells) yeah, they flat out lied to us
Me: Poor Toffee. He died as he lived.
Star: Underestimating my family and their magic.
Me: Being wasted potential once his time in the sun was finished.
Regarding the hair scene with Ludo, I don't think Toffee knew about his birthday party. He likely caught Ludo's moment of weakness and capitalized on it.
I think this is shown with Toffee's expression when Ludo was heading for the wand. I think he expected him to fail long before then, and was like oh shit, oh no, he's actually doing it, and then of course he fails because of his hair weakness, which he may not have known about but used to his advantage once he did fail.
It's also possible he caught on when Ludo's reaction implied he was afraid of the house of hair for some reason and that's why he egged him on to continue the hunt, expecting him to fail because of that.
That scene where toffee goes from serious to SURPRISE still makes me laugh like crazy. Like I can see his mind just counting down till star makes that shocked face and his inner villain just gives for that one moment to let him celebrate.
Actually, the line star said being "the calls are coming from the house" was firstly from the Christmas horror "black Christmas" to which both svtfoe and risk and Monty used for a reference.
I thought it came from the movie When A Stranger Calls (1979) but I guess Black Christmas did came first.
@@littlebunnyvideoproduction2278 to be fair. It was more popular in "when the stranger calls"
In retrospect, Star was randomly beating up monsters who weren’t that bad. My girl was committing hate crimes for fun lol
They really had no grander plan; it was a typical Strong Female Character ™ intro. Clearly, the show was supposed to be a mindlessly fun, episodic magical girl Spongebob and they added "social justice" as a theme and "mysteries" later so that viewers who liked wannabe anime like Steven Universe and mystery shows like Gravity Falls would latch on.
@@Rosemont104 they sprinkled implications that Star was brainwashed on Season 1. It wasn’t out of left field
I think one of my biggest issues with the writing of SVTFOE is shown through Toffee and Seth. I shouldn’t have to seek out supplemental material (especially PAID supplemental material) to fully understand background information and a character’s motives.
“How did Toffee know so much about the Butterfly family?” answered on a website, not in show.
“Who was Moon’s mother and who killed her?” answered in the $20 Magic Book of Spells.
“Who was Seth?” Actually a very important character to the lore, but never mentioned/shown in the series proper.
We still don’t even fully know Toffee’s thought process for attempting to destroy magic. The show wanted to lead you to think Toffee wants social change, but even that’s not fully explained. Toffee wasn’t right, I assumed he was just salty that he was embarrassed by magic users twice. Once by Meteora and once by Moon. I dont know I just… it could’ve been phenomenal, but that’s not what we ultimately got.
Exactly! But what did they deem important enough to answer in the show itself?
"Will They or Won't They?" *gag*
The creator's two fave episodes are super revealing; I'm not sure if she liked "Into the Wand" for its potential, or if it was because it was an "easy ratings grab," just like "Booth Buddies."
My opinion is that Toffee didn't simply write "Give Ludo the wand" in the fortune cookie because he wasn't aiming to get it in that moment, what he wanted was to use the opportunity to get a read on who Star is as a person to figure out how to defeat her in a situation where he will have the clear upper hand with no interruptions and nothing getting in his way (aka how he managed it in the season 1 finale). In the same way, he didn't immediately get rid of Buff Frog and Ludo but took a couple episodes to get full power because he needed to figure them out as people too. He is smart and conniving, but in a realistic way where he needs to get to know his enemies first rather than just.... Immediately being good at everything. And he's a schemer who wouldn't jump on the first opportunity he's given without making extra sure he has everything under control.
Who wouldn’t like him? He's cool, calm, evil, and mysterious.
Do you think Toffee is hiring cause I would totally work for him 😊
Seriously I feel like if they hadn't killed him off so early we've wouldn't have been left with so many unanswered questions. The fact that he even knew about the whispering spell means he would have had been close to the butterfly family. Seriously they should have kept him alive.
I'm still a bit confused about why this whole "whispering spell" was such a deal for Star and Toffee if the wand just... repaired itself? And what did Toffee got out of this? The wand wasn't destroyed after all. Maybe he didn't know the spell works like that but then how did he corrupt the wand? Was it an accident? Was it a plan?
Honestly, I'm not sure if I'm a bad listener or too stupid for a kid's cartoon. Or is the show just a mess
It allowed Toffee to go inside the realm and he manipulated Ludo. In retrospect, why he didn't just outright destroy magic there and then is a mind-boggler.
@@Warriorcats64 Star's wand isn’t all of magic, though.
don’t beat yourself up; daron or whoever was in charge of the show’s writing clearly didn’t think things through
I think it comes down to poor planning. In my hypothetical rewrite someday, I'd probably have the wand be useless for a while afterward and part of S2 is spent trying to revive it somehow. That way we see why Toffee wanted her to use the Whispering Spell; it does render her wand useless which was an end goal of his. Of course, Star does manage to revive the wand eventually, but by then magic is corrupted due to Toffee being pulled into the realm of magic, so it malfunctions just like in the actual show, but she initially writes off her wand's malfunctions as part of it being broken, not realizing it's because of magic getting corrupted.
Heck him corrupting the magic could even be a sort of Plan B for Toffee; Star revives the wand, so clearly the Whispering Spell isn't enough to render the wand useless forever so he tries something else
@@Warriorcats64 Well that was what he was doing during his stay. Star just restored it.
Toffee just makes me sad cause as soon as he got back he died. For some reason they toss the "magic bad" shit in at the last minute yet decide to go with an antagonist who has fuckall to do with that theme.
There was still so much to explore with him. We have no idea what the hell his deal was, where he really comes from, or why he got rid of the wand. What a waste man
Couldn't say it better myself. In my opinion he should had much more complicated ideas then destroy the magic thing. Also adding to what you said why he knows so much on magic and whats going on with his strange connection to Marco (that dream)
All these recent videos on the show have really made me want to take a crack at rewriting the series, in the form of fanfiction of course.
Like rewrite it from the beginning, but keep it mostly intact except for fixing the major glaring issues, and take the opportunity to expand on Toffee's lore and motivations while I'm at it 😛
Because yeah, I've been reminded that it's super sad what they did with him. So much wasted potential, especially since the show went on for four seasons and he was the main villain of an entire season of the show.
@@StarcoFanatic i’d be pretty interested in reading a fanfic that explored toffee more. it felt like he was pretty much gone after he came back to life
Toffee is a great villain because he stands out as the calm and composed manipulator in a show that centers around passion and chaos. Whenever he appears, the tone shifts, the stakes get higher, and everyone is left wondering just how things will go now that he's involved.
I love toffee he was the best villain of the series. The way he came in and the way he came out was awesome
I argue about the way he went out, it was awesome solely because it had to to with Toffee, but his death was incredibly rushed and anticlimactic
Wait... most of the monsters, at least the ones that were present in the last episode of season one, actually survived the explosion. We see Boo Fly, Big Chicken, the one with the two heads, the Giraffe monster, and many others later in episodes. Sure, just as background cameos and for one-liners, but they didn't die as you said. At least not all of them.
He really did get screwed over, seriously why wasn't he final bad guy? He could have had so much more development
I agree. Ya know , I really didn’t want him to be a season 1/2 villain , I hoped he’d be the final once cause he just….felt like one.
@@xempororhxppyx I was almost sure he would be back, bc his eye was still around but nope he's death is a plot hole
The horse said "I was never your wand"
Because he was the first hint that something was going on behind the scenes of all this. The first glimpse into the deeper mysteries of this world, and the first to acknowledge that something more was going on than one rebel princess playing with magic beyond her ken. The fact that he hid himself, making others the front, and eventually set the ONLY trap in the series that worked towards what it was meant to do, a feat no one else achieved over the course of the game save maybe the party box against the Council(And even that failed to drive them to action).
Of course, that is one of the reasons why the lack of follow up with him in the greater scope of things feels awful. Eclipsa and Globgor were interesting ideas, but this was a fully realized big bad, who had quirks that never got explained, and of course, his seeming interest in Marco several times in the first season, which also got no follow up, as he didn't even interact with him in season 2. Oh, and the way he was taken out is still the cheapest of all the villains in the series. Like, he came back from vaporization, but then suddenly Star can kamehameha him, a move that does NOTHING to anyone else. It's just cheap, and shows how they had a plan only up to the start of season 3.
I remember at the time how obsessed the fandom was with Toffee, the replacement "villains" aka means to show systematic oppression and the ugh... love triangles didn't replace the void he left!
What happened to the dad's staff, I mean it's a crescent moon. It's perfectly symbolic for something that got established later that Mewni is matriarchal, if I'm remembering correctly.
It's funny how close OK KO came to having an "improvement" on something of a "Toffee type" with Professor Venomous, but even that had to be taken behind the barn because of the show getting cancelled. The similarities are really remarkable, and I sometimes say that he and Lord Boxman are basically just Toffee and Ludo if they were in love with each other.
(Man, and a sandwich held a lot more weight in OK KO than it did in Star, also...)
Heh, "If"?
@@Retro_Red now that i think about it lol
You noticed the sandwich too 😮
*SURPRISE*
Who might have become my #1 favorite villain ever, even more than baddies like Bill Cipher, the Great Diamond Authority, King Andrias, and Emperor Belos. Heck I might even place Toffee next to Silco from Arcane.
As someone commented on Blue Order's review to this show and how it came completely undone in its third and fourth seasons . . . "This show's biggest crime was to introduce the best, most attractive, most intelligent villain ever and completely shoot him in the foot."
Daron and her crew made hundreds of terrible decisions with this show, but one of the top worst in any show has to be completely killing off your best antagonist too soon with a very rushed and anticlimactic death. What was going through Daron's head when she decided to ditch the series' story halfway through, Toffee even hinted it wasn't over, you can't just drop and ignore that.
Toffee may be badass, cool-looking, threatening and all that, but a lot of villains tend to be overpowered. He's (just a guy), a somewhat retired war commander/general type of guy, but just a guy, he doesn't have some insane strength or Godly power. His most noticeable weapon is his 10 Million IQ brain, he carefully planned out each step he took and his plan succeeded in the end.
By the end of the series he was the only villain who didn't get off the hook, he was the only one to have actually died, and he was the only one shown to be in the right. It really sucks because out of every character in this show, he had the most potential, especially if you take into consideration his boss! 😲
For those of you who don't know in the official "Magic Book of Spells" a septarian warlord called Seth of Septarsis was dedicated. He's behind the whole rebellion against the Monster King and he led the war against magic and Mewmans. With Toffee as his loyal puppet, Seth was the motivation for him to kill Queen Comet and Queen Solaria. This overarching plot we had, Seth is behind all of it. He would've made an awesome endgame villain. This is a crucial peice of the backstory we got a taste of in "Battle for Mewni." Seth, Toffee and this whole story we only got a paltry fragment of, this would've been the perfect continuation for the show and they did absolutely nothing with it.
Such a shame
Just by being on screen, it felt like the whole atmosphere of the show changed
I think Toffee is the best villain of the show as an antagonist but Ludo's the best villain of the show as a character.
If you not consider season 3 and 4 as canon. People ask you who is main villain?, Correct answer is Ludo and Toffee. YES!!! "ONLY TOFFEE" is wrong answer.These two are both main antagonists of the series (whole first two seasons,those didn't suck). Just like star and marco (two characters) are main protagonists.
When Toffee came the show got more serious
Yes, and it's why I started to really love the show. Toffee brought with him a much more different mood, and coming from the heels of Gravity Falls at the time, I sensed "overarching villain" vibes from him as a result. I was hooked to the show after his debut in Fortune Cookies.
Ngl I thought the title was "why was Toffee so miserable?"
It’s the effectiveness of a straight man in a story to contrast with craziness. That’s why Marco got less and less effective as the show went on
Tofee i feel embodies the best and worst aspects of the series as a whole.
Concept wise he's really investing and interesting. He has just enouph to him to make you invested in him and enjoy his scenes. But also is just vauge enouph for you to speculate and want to learn more about him.
But he falls apart if you put him under teal scrunity as almost everything about him is set up. But no pay off. The entire show can be critized to have this problem. Lots of good set up and ideas. But bad pay off if any with too much put into books that barley seem canon as they are outright ignored or contradicited in some cases to try to fill in the gaps that are glaringly overiousl
I feel that again, the relationship drama is to blame and the will they won't they with Marco and Star. In season 3 and 4 there is SO MUCH of this and it takes up so many episode sand time that the acutal plot and story is forced into the backseat. And while that's a whole discussion for antoher time. Tofee clearly suffered for this.
WHatever we were meant to learn about him was proibbly put on teh back burner time and time again or simply was never worked out. Yes it's true that Tofee is interesting beacuse of his mysterious nature. But you need to actually reveal what that mystery is to make him truly interesting.
I think Daron didn't want to actually reveal to us whatever Tofee's true backstory or name was, as she was too invovled in teh fandom and attached to the idea that TOfee's myster was his best aspect and just...Stuck with that. And foucused on what she also thougth people wanted.
Star and marco's relationship drama. Forgettign that the plot and lore of the series is some of the best things about it
He and his group of lizards should have been the final villains
Precisely, his master Seth would've been a fantastic endgame villain.
@shaquille mccray Tell me about it
Fuck yeah, some appreciation for my favorite lizard boi
Raptor God Man
@@roo1014 ha yes
@@roo1014 *blue order flashbacks*
I'm late to this video, very late. But the unicorn said "I was never your wand, it's not over yet, run"
He was just really well planned
This video along with bringing back nostalgic memories also reminded me how weird/cringe toffee face looks when he looks straight at the camera
He was honestly the most interesting character in the entire show, anytime he shows up, you know something bad is going to happen. I'm still a bit salty that the unknown backstory of how Toffee knows all these things is shafted for the worst love triangle you've ever seen 😒
I'm sorry, but he was one of the biggest disappointments of this show. It feels like they had a concept for him, but didn't really have a clear direction for him in the story. We know next to nothing about him. No clear backstory, no clear motivations, we do not even know his real name, but that happens, if you want to focus on shipping instead. The Starco ship ruined Toffee as a character.
Michael C. Hall was a Prestige TV actor too, I cannot understand why they'd waste his talents in favor of becoming the animated equivalent of a generic, soapy teen drama.
It's definitely an utter shame. Toffee is singlehandedly the only reason I even started liking the show in the first place. The Starco fangirling started way into Season 2, long after Toffee had sold me on the show so it was never my main focus and I hate that it became the show's main focus and sidelined everything that made it interesting.
He had so much potential. And the show could easily bought him back after he killed off. But to did nothing with him. It was like he just there to help bring back Eclipsa.
i agree.
20:44 The millhorse says "I was never your wand. Now save yourself."
Looking forward to this and part 2
I will always see toffee as the main antagonist for the entire show. sure he died at the beginning of season 3 but he's the only villain who's evil influence remained throughout the entire show
this show has 4 major antagonists, each of them primarily taking the villain mantle for one season
season 1 had ludo as the main villain, even though he was overthrown by toffee in the finale he was still the main antagonist for pretty much the entire season
season 2 had toffee as the main villain, even tho he didn't make a single physicsl appearance in that season and ludo was the one doing all the evil stuff, ever since the season 2 premier, toffee had been controlling ludo behind the scenes making him to exactly what he wanted
season 3 had meteora, who was built up as the main antagonist for the season mostly in the second half of season 3
and season 4 who had mina as the antagonist, which was an interesting twist after setting up eclipsa as the final villain so much in the season 3 finale
but let's look at these characters and their history of villainy throughout the show
first we have ludo, who was nothing but a simple antagonist for star in season 1, pathetic and not at all threatening, but in season 2 he gained a wand and thanks to that and toffees manipulation he was able to conquer all of mewni and have everything he's ever wanted (except a big boy body). but after toffee is killed once and for all he enters a redemption arc, where he struggles to fight his old urges to search for stars wand but really does want to become a better person and by the end of the show he's just living his best life in a new home he built with all his siblings. he was a villain for a total of 2 seasons before turning good for the rest of the show
now there's meteora. she was a super minor antagonist in the first 2 seasons, but around halfway through season 3 she realizes her true past and grows to a huge beast and tries to take back the throne of mewni that's rightfully hers. but by the end of season 3, she's turned into a baby again by eclipsa, and for the final season of the show shes a protagonist
and last but not least mina. shes introduced as a protagonist in season 2 whos just kind of crazy and has weird world views. shes portrayed the same way in season 3, good intentions, bad actions, and by season 4 shes a full on antagonist using the solarian armor to take back mewni for queen moon who she believes deserves the throne. thats 1 season of villainy. and even if you want to argue she was an antagonist from the start thats 3 seasons of villainy
finally let's look at toffee. hes a pretty major antagonist in season 1, introduced near the end of the season but in only a few episodes he manages to completely overthrow the main antagonist of season 1 and gets star to destroy her wand, cleaving it into 2 and fusing him into the realm of magic just as he wanted, setting up step 2 of his plan. in season 2 he plays a background role, the main antagonist but using ludo as a puppet to get what he wants, having only a few actual lines in the entire season. in season 3 he makes his long awaited return, getting his finger back, and regaining his physical form. hes killed not soon after that by star and ludo though, marking his actual death in the show. he never comes back. but he's still a relevant antagonist for the rest of the show. his influence is still clearly present. we get a cameo from him in a flashback episode with glosaryck and meteora, a few mentions of him from characters, and by the end of the show star realizes that destroying the magic is the right thing to do and has a shocking realization that toffee was actually right all along. its a crazy revelation and in my opinion way more satisfying for his character than another resurrection would be. sure he's not the big bad final villain of the series but he remains relevant even well after his death, and he is the only villain in the entire show with evil influence for all 4 seasons
and for that reason ill always consider him THE villain of svtfoe
honestly, i hated this show since episode 1. i found star irritating, marco just rubbed me the wrong way, the short bird guy and his goons were too stupid for even an idiot like me to enjoy watching. Then came toffee. toffee was the one character i was actually rooting for anything good to happen to, i wanted him to win.
I believe the Ghost horse said, "I was never your Wand." Hinting at the fact that Star and Moon aren't the rightful heirs to the Throne or Wand.
There's something that's bothered me for awhile, if star and river didn't know what I toilet was why do they have toilets on mewni
Spoilers ahead.
Toffee had the PERFECT set up for a villian. Truly great. But they ruined it.
Toffee was a scheming villian, even if on the same side you never knew whether you weren't his true target after all. His first move was to infiltrate, take over and dominate a faction. He removed everyone he couldn't control or might overrule him. He was a coldblooded monster in a world full of rainbow and magical girls. He was the "Forces of Evil", after he arived it was established that monsters themselves were not evil.
As long as there is a wand Star might get it back. The audience knew that she would steal it back somehow. This is why the show had to destroy it, while making it a character defining moment for Star. Everything about destroying the wand felt final.
... Too bad that Toffee was ruined. Suddenly, everything was about his finger. Star restored the wand which felt very cheap. Then he was kinda there and kinda not, a lot of teen drama happened and I lost complete interest in the show. I watched a video about the ending out of curiosity, turns out that Toffee was a secret good guy; everyone at the end agreed to just destroy magic for good.
This is like if dipper and mable defeated Bill during the mind invasion episode and Gideon and Ford where the villains for the finale
I always used to get his name confused with Coffee and I thought it was weird he was named after a drink. I mean, he's named after a candy but still
Toffee should've been on a better show. I bet he'd make a great adventure time villain
It's a shame they never brought him back either. Like season 4 kind of suggested that he would come back and then just did nothing with that idea.
Easy toffee was actually intimidating
Toffee should have been the final boss
Literally forgot the character and show existed until I saw this video.
Glossarick is the real villian of star vs
I'd like to see a video covering that angle
I would strongly say that Star is
@@roo1014 with glossarick's direction she is
See you, hopefully this Friday 🤫🤫🤫
@@KittyMonk your video make my work day much better
The horse whispered "I was never your wand"
15:50 "The best spy is the one that doesnt know he is one"
Toffee was cruel to Bullfrog and got him kicked out, while Star was shown to have her morals turned and started to be friends with him...
Toffee was like Aizen, or Obito. Villan that stayed in hiding and acted as a side character to move his chess pieces along the planned actions.
(Reads title)
Well, it's not every day one gets a kid's cartoon villain based on Patrick Bateman as a literal lizardman.
I was just rewatching star vids until this came out
20:44 according to roundtable it was
"I was not your wand"
I used to watch SvtFoE a lot when it was still new and airing, and Toffee really hooked me in.
Sadly, after him, I lost major interest in the show, the direction felt so off and it was hard for it to keep my attention.
I still adore Toffee, I really wish they did more with him.
**Cough Cough**
He's hot.
It's been a while, but the Millhorse (roughly) says "I was never your wand. It's not over yet, run."
I wish that Toffee was some descendant of Eclipsa, that would've been great.
He turned me into a scaly 😭
Favourite villain in the show next to Meteora
idk what it said after but the first thing that i think it said, and a couple of fans seem to agree with, was "I was never your wand" (also hi, been watching yours and some Star versus content cause is in my head rent free)
19:00 "the call is coming from inside the house" is a reference to an older movie called when a stranger calls
I find the way they handled him in the show to be missed opportunities. We all thought there was going to be an epic final battle. Like he wasn't defeated for good. He would return. He said how he made the plans. How he knows all would play out. We all thought this. And we thought he would return in the series finale and an epic finale against him and maybe Seth as the final antagonists. But no. They kept Toffee dead and they just made Seth dead from the very beginning and instead we got Mina. Heinous was a good villain because she was a tragic character driven to madness by her rough history. Toffee was a good villain for the opposite reason. He seems to have been the only villain in the show that felt like an actual villain. An overarching threat. An actual evil. And many people would often speculate. Often question the mysterious nature and it's that sense of mystery of who he is and what his plans were that led many people to speculate about him. So to kill him off so anti-climatically. And they don't do anything else with him afterwards outside of a flashback where they traveled into the past. It's just disappointing. Then again a lot of things about Season 4 was disappointing.
i remembered Toffee mostly cos his SURPRISE scared the ever living shit out of me the first time i saw it
If i remember correctly the ghost unicorn tells Star "its not over yet, run!"
I heard it supposedly was "I was never your wand" or something along those lines, hence the new unicorn and upgrade later.
I... I... I have a crush for Toffee 😍😍😂
Unlike King Andrias; this reptilian business beast, along with Lord Dominator, and Bill Cipher used to rule the fandom by storm but as years went y; some pretty forgotten any of these awesome villains exists let another no successor or someone (or soemthing0 could ever hold the torch or overthrown him wearing the crown of begin the next "Biggest Threat Among The Rest". If your still tired of "Twist Villains" Disney used to do awhile back In the early mid 2010's era, your truly not missing out cause him and even Professor Pericles are Indeed one of the most rarest and villainous gems alive. He didn't need to kill one of Star's Friends (except using Marco as bait the one time) nor needed a villain song to explain what he's like though It still would've been cool If he and Eclipsa had some chemistry together or even as wild teens of their youth If they chose a new different direction instead o what we got.
When I watched STVoE on Disney+ Mewdependence Day wasn't there (in the UK) so I was confusd for why Buff Frog wasn't in Marco Grows a Beard
I just realized something. Remember Lobsterclaws? Given Moon's line about the threat if the Wand falls into the forces of evil...
He's probably one of the few definitively evil characters in the show given he transformed into a super evil demon when he had the Wand.
I read the creator stated that Toffee didn't expected Star to come back and defeat him. They stated that Toffee snapped when his plans fell apart. He was unaware that he was a sacrifice to release Eclipsa.
He would have been upset that he wasn't in control of his own life.
His death doesn’t make sense
It was not the Septerian Killing spell or the kill everything spell, he even was alive after that and that he got killed by a Pillar is wierd
They even planned to bring him back (Season 4 episode 1 and 2 showed alot of Toffee references) but they favored shipping and racism plot and shoved a **DeStInY** thing into it
Which is a horrible excuse for a bad ending
@@fighter0056 Wow, his death was supposed to be Eclipsa's released, but I guess the writers mess up a lot. If the writers were planning to have him come for season 4, it have would been that after Ludo crushed him, Eclipsa would be released. She said the deal as long as Moon aim the spell directly at his heart in which Moon did at the beginning of season 3 and this lead to Eclipsa being released.
Toffee is furious that his planned failed and glossaryck knew his plan would fail. Toffee will think that glossaryck used him to have Eclipsa released. Toffee would see that he used as a puppet this whole time.
@@AH-is5yg when was Toffee furious that he was destined to die?
He seemed happy in the tapestry in *the tavern at the end of the multiverse*
@@fighter0056 i mean 'if he was brought back as a ghost.'
Plus, before he was crushed by Ludo, Toffee really snapped into insanity when all his plans failed in season 3.
Unrelated but why do cartoons' lines seem to get thinner and thinner as time goes on?
I loved Toffee but his back story was extremely anti climactic, he did all of that just for a finger. His origins weren’t that good to me personally but as a character he was great.
it wasn't just for his finger. his finger was a statement. he was an unstoppable force before he lost his finger, the loss of his finger insighted fear in his whole army, giving the impression that maybe they can be defeated. when toffee got his finger back it was a symbol that the septerians truly are a force to be reckon with, and if he showed his old army that he returned with his finger, it would've reinvigorated them to overthrow the butterfly monarchy, and without magic thay would've been an easy feat. unfortunately for him, star learned to dip down and channel her butterfly form, ultimately leading to his death
@@chickennoodlegamer915 that would’ve all been great if they Portrayed it more and focused on those aspects front and center in the show instead of briefly showing some of the events and expecting the audience to put 90 percent of the pieces together without proper build up or development even on Toffee’s part with a POV or deeper character arc analysis.
@@bendu8282 true I agree, im just a person who digs deep into every aspect of a narrative so when something doesn't make sense on the surface I usually dip down for the chunks of the lore. thats mostly why i only actually recognize like 2 valid plot holes in this shows entire story. but it is true that the show should be more up front with a lot of its lore because not many people will dig that deep into it
The writers lump all of the monsters all together just like Mewmans did even though in the show it doesn’t seem like in universe where the are different monster species some that are allied with the Mewmans , some are so much more powerful than others like Globgors people compared to any other monster the could have shown the different monster species not getting along with each other or how monster religion worked
Okay so, for all Star vs and The Owl House fans out there...I have a serious question. _Toffee vs. Emperor Belos:Who do you think is the more effective, manipulative villain of their respective shows? Not necessarily the BEST, but rather, which one is more manipulative and EFFECTIVE?_ I await all your intershow comments and headcanons and theories below!!!! 😁.
they should not have just killed him off in season 3 really wish they kept him so that they could dedicate more episodes to this gem of a character instead of bullshit love triangle episodes
18:35 because of this, now i need to know about your opinion about the series and the villains 👌
Yes an video about bull frog
17:22 He didnt. He just knows Looto. Looto has fucked up everything he touched. He knew Looto would fuck up. Just not how.
13:09 my favorite scene from the season.
The hoarse told Star to get to safety before the wand exploded.
i think the unicorn soul said "i was never your wand" then something about "its not over"
11:59 could you please explain what you said about Gravity falls for me? I didn't really get what you meant by that.
Me, reading the thumbnail: Because people thought he was hot.
Sorry I just had to do it, I was laughing too much at myself. Fandom culture really changes a person like I said that with the straightest face before laughing
Overall, I think the endgame should’ve been Toffee coming back and teaming up with Marco, with the latter having been affected by the Neverzone’s different time and having a thing against magic. Star, on the other hand, would have to convince Marco that magic isn’t all that bad. Combine this with Marco being a mewman and part of the true Butterfly lineage and you get something insanely interesting for a finale. That’s just my thoughts, though.
SURPRISE
For the part when the horse was whispering into her ear, I think it said "I was never your wand" wearing headphones can help if you have a hard time hearing it
TOFFEE WAS FUCKIN PERFECT, AND AWESOME AND AMAZING AND BEAUTIFUL AND SO WAS STARCO, YOU TRY MAKING A BETTER SHOW, DARON WORKED HER FUCKING ASS OFF ON IT. AND U TRY MAKING A SHOW WITHOUT SHIPPING! !
Damn, preach, mate. Star Vs The Forces Of Evil is my favourite show...
little aggressive but I agree with the sentiment
Theres tons of shows that don’t focus on shipping/don’t focus on it much. And she wasn’t even criticizing Toffee and even if she was, people have opinions. Not surprised something like this comment is coming from with that profile and ships Bill and Dipper, but calm down 💀
So did you make it a game to include as many Michael C. Hall references as possible? XD
Yes, it highly disappoints me I didn’t include any President Kennedy references.
Pringles come in a can.
I swear Toffee looks like Spoctor and Mae from Night in the Woods son.
Before I even watch the video. It's because he's the only good character in the story.
They wasted such a good character, I still struggle to get over it.
Please do a video about (Seath) i really need to know more about him!🙏
I just subscribed yesterday😊🥰👍💯💕💞💖
Belos is what toffee could have ended up being
I always thought the ghost horse told star the wand was going to explode and to get to safety