This was brutal to watch. It makes me realize how difficult it can be to articulate one's beliefs. Only God can change someone's heart. Only God can turn on the lights of understanding. Praying for her salvation
She and her friends lives her good life according to her words. She will one day realize if the bible is true that this is not the requirement that God requires. Then it will be too late to change her view. If her heart isn't regenerated by God then all her beliefs , her goodness , will do nothing for her to inherit God's favor of an eternity in heaven. She is as lost as the worst sinner according to the bible.
I’ve ran into it myself and I’ve heard lots of these discussions and you can actually pinpoint the places where you realize that people don’t want to know God. This young person for example made it clear that she believes people should be able to live their lives however they want and she would only follow a religion that suits her beliefs.
The part where she is admitting that it's so obvious that murder is wrong is just proving Stuarts point that there are objective morals. She is showing that morals are very very obvious with her actions and her words.
She has no foundation for her “empathy and compassion”, the trials & tribulations of this world will crush those beliefs. A person has to have their foundation in Christ then the empathy and compassion for humankind will stay strong. (Build your house upon the Rock, not on the sand) Luke 6-47-49
@@sterlingfallsproductions3930 I can tell you from personal experience that as a follower of Christ, my life is so much better compared to when I wasn’t following Christ. So yes I can prove Jesus is the way cuz I had a personal experience. And having a foundation in compassion is needed because in this life we will all be tested in that area. Knowing what Christ did for me (died for me), helps me see that this life is not my own(Galatians 20:20), i am here to serve others and help share the good news. Basically I’m here on this earth as a vessel, only boasting in the Lord. (1 Corinthians 1:30-31)
Empathy is a foundation for subjective morality. You might subjectively dislike that foundation of find it unsatisfactory, but it's no less a foundation than your subjective satisfaction you feel following Christ
@@NewtonVieira every standard humans believe in are human standards. I don't know if you believe that a creator has the right to impose their morality on their creation, but if you do, that's still just your subjective opinion. I don't care if I create a being out of clay and breathe life into it, I would still feel guilty for hurting it. Feelings are the foundation for morality. Christians just feel good about an imaginary authority figure where as others feel good about making others feel good
She has Chosen not to believe simply because of Homosexuality. She is Telling God to change his mind accept Gay sex as normal or I will leave you. That's really sad.
@@scottfarley3644 No, I would not tell God how to make anything. But I can say that killing babies and allowing your people to buy children from the strangers who dwelt among them is, in my opinion, vile and disgusting. I truly think this god of the bible is a moral thug.
No she's incredibly thick. She doesn't understand the basic dichotomy of subjective vs objective morals. Without and over arching authority, like God. Objective morals can't exist.
@@formallyknownasjojoemcpart6684 Agree. Thats doesn't change she's a bright, articulate young woman. Right now she's in darkness, believing a lie. If Holy Spirit removed the blinders and she became born again she would be great at evangelizing.
@@Darkshadow21298 doesn't change the fact she's bright & articulate albeit misguided or as you say "thick". We should have compassion for the lost, not disdain, since we oncr walked in darkness too. You dont think God could use her gift of debate for His Kindom purposes if she became saved? I do.
Jesus is Lord God Almighty clothed in unsinful humanity and He is the author of "eternal life" to all who trust Him alone for salvation. This means that saving repentance is realizing that you are a sinner deserving of God's just punishment in Hell and turn (repent) from whatever you trusted in before, if indeed you trusted in anything; to trusting in the person and finished work of Christ "alone" for salvation.
First time I have seen Robert in the gauntlet. He did a great job articulating his position and explaining the problems with that of his opponent's. Well done!
@@robertmitchell8438 When did I state otherwise? Why does nobody know the definition of opponent? It literally just means someone who opposes your view or argument. And when you use gauntlet in this context, it means challenge.
The next time (I've heard it dozens of times on Cliff's videos) I hear a student say "I'm taking a (name the subject) class right now and we've learned that (name the truth claim or fact)" I'm going to puke. As though being 18 years old (almost zero life experience as a thinking adult) and taking a class in (name the subject) with no real exposure to other opinions now makes you an expert. Sorry for the rant. I pray for this articulate young lady (I'm hopeful she is a seeker) and other students, realizing what an incredible believer she has the potential to be! Keep up the good work, Knechtle's!
Continue discussing with them, God bless your work, Love you from Egypt I want to thank both Stuart and Robert for this good presentation of Christianity and the great discussion that happened, I am sure if she sees this video, she will know the point that Morality is relative and change according to culture, Society and traditional beliefs
It's good to see Cliffe's other kids getting into these debates also. All praise, honour and glory belongs to Jesus Christ, the King of kings and Lord of lords.
@@jasonnoble7302 Good, I'm glad that they answer questions... If you pay attention to what they say, you might actually learn something for once. But as for me, I'm under no obligation to answer your same questions over and over again.
She was good. Debating off the cuff like that, and not getting angry or upset - I enjoyed the conversation. It'll be amazing if in a few years she looks back on it as the foundational conversation of her faith journey.
I remember wrestling with justifying ethical issues while in college. Thank God that He saved me when I realized that I have no ethics apart from Christ!!!
Oh my gosh at 18:30 she talks about morality being arrived at by debate. lol Debate??? Oh man, so whoever wins the debate can create morality? Sounds like something the Nazis did. Might makes right....thank God I Ieft the madness of atheism.
What a neat surprise seeing Robert talking and listening. I thought he looked like Stewart had a haircut, or perhaps it was a clip from an old video of Cliffe.
She is intelligent but she clearly has a Christian perspective on morality but pertains it to personal and societal conditioning and still expects her truth to be the right one. She also severely underestimates the rigidity of other cultures. Honor and status is deeply deeply valued in South Asians cultures to the point dissent is some times replied with violence. A single person cannot change thousands of years of conditioning.
@@JoshJ12 I thought it was interesting that she also mentioned something to the effect of, there isn't enough physical proof or evidence right now to become convinced. I share this view to some extent, in that christians I hang out with tell me praying for healing works, but I do not see the results of that today, or at least not to the extent that healing wouldn't have happened anyway, without prayer. Because this claim about praying for healing appears unfounded, I struggle to believe what other things Christians are preaching.
@Justin Gary I follow your instagram account now, although I don't normally use it. I wasn't sure if your reply was meant for me specifically, it was a fair bit to read. I guess I was trying to make a point of how some things are preached (using current day healing as an example) are not founded with evidence. This leaves me to think it is plausible that other things being preached may also be unfounded, but simply accepted because a teacher/preacher told them it is true. Because it is difficult for me to personally verify the authenticity of ancient manuscripts, I rely on trust in the integrity and ability of experts to get it right. However the same would go for non christian point of views. This is where you and I seem to agree wrt evolution. This theory seems implausible on account that it does not allow for the miraculous, which I think it needs to be plausible. But then I for the christian point of view (which I lean towards), I struggle with the evidence of God as we are taught by preachers. For example I don't see evidence that people are hearing God's voice short of our conscience. Although plenty say they can. I don't see people being healed due to asking God to heal. Although people say it is happens. I don't see evidence that asking Jesus to save you, changes you to a better person (whatever better is) I also struggle to understand the definition of "faith", "believe" and what defines a church. I still question the whole tithe thing, which seems to me is something more like tax within the jewish community. I don't trust church leaders, or confident christians; my experience is that the more I know about a subject, the more I know I don't know.
@@kiwi_velonaut Prayers are a direct communication with a creator through were the flesh, soul and spirit unite to laugh, cry, be angry to God. Nevertheless, miracles are rare to the point where the entirety of miracles in the Bible occurred over 1000s of years. Tbh I understand your point too, but I have faith that time is always revealing God's work even if it takes generations.
We all WANT to desperately believe....why? Because life is so tough and we ask, is this it? Is this all there is? So that is how they hook you...one's desire to believe that there is in fact, something better.
It is maddening when someone never concedes the point, which is what this girl does consistently when you show her the inconsistencies of what she has built her life upon. I don't know how you can live without the Lord, but to just ignore your inconsistencies and gather for yourselves others who are doing the same thing. You want this world so much or sin so much? Why, where has that gotten you? Rather then excepting the love ofJesus Christ who died for you and when you believe in Him, He sets you free from sin and death forever. It is sad that people believe the world will last forever. This world is passing away. Come to Christ!
It's "I don't know, I will never know, but it's not that! It could be these other Gods! But that one doesn't seem loving!" --- simply misunderstanding. 1 Corinthians 3:18 Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise.
He should have said "Ok, you think it's wrong. Who cares?.....I am not saying for you to go over there and change anything yourself. I'm trying to explain, and show you, that your belief in "Moral relativism" means it doesn't matter if you think what others are doing is wrong. Keep thinking it. No one's going to stop you. But you clutching your pearls, and implying that others who don't share the same morals as you should stop what the majority of their ppl believe in is hypocrisy. If no culture is better than any other, then what you morally believe in means absolutely nothing."
Really enjoyed the other brother talk. I've seen every video and the oldest brother seems to have the passion of cliffe but Robert seems to have an empathy for people and you can see his pauses and mannerisms when he talks that points to someone who really cares about what they're trying to convey
@@robertmitchell8438 thanks, it was a hard listen as they were all talking over one another for a lot of the time, but yeah, she painted herself into a corner there for sure. Shame Matt's gone now.
I think something that’s very important with the ethical arguments is first establishing if each party believes humans are equal. If both parties agree humans are equal, then you can go into the notion that you as a human have no right whatsoever to impede on someone else’s subjective morals because you and that person are of the same value. If they disagree, then that shows that there is something above their own subjective morality that is stronger than humans. It also shows that if all humans are equal, why? Why would people believe all humans are equal unless there is something outside of humanity giving it its value?
Bible never says to marry your rapist. A rapist if judged would be killed. The Bible talks about consensual sex out of marriage. If they are caught they are to marry.
This conversation would have been shorter if you had gone Ray Comfort on her. Use the moral law she's laying claims to as a mirror for her to see herself as God sees her. This would have ended much sooner.
they werent interested in proving their point , this was a contest of , im smarter then you are , while never making a point and jumping from one argument to another
So much respect for this lady. She has a real gift for articulating her ideas on the spot. If this were a real discussion instead of a sales pitch, it would have been truly fantastic.
She articulates well… but really needs to examine her beliefs deeper. I don’t see how you can claim you want to follow Judaism and in the same breath show anger towards the “archaic” portions of Christianity…. Which is essentially the central parts of Judaism.
She just speaks. She doesn’t rationalize her points enough. She is just repeating what her professor of gender studies taught her. I’ve heard more coherent arguments from hardcore atheists.
@@IffyEdem Nah, I've got to give credit where it's due. I've seen people who parrot...This lady is trying to make sense of things (assuming I recall correctly - my comment was made a year ago).
As a 75 year old free thinker I found the Bible deeply disappointing, especially the genocides, the threats of damnation, and the childish demands by a Hebrew god for endless praise and worship. It's embarrassing.
@@jeffrey6618 Keep going to sleep believing that I will be punished for saying words and God will solve all your problems in the end, instead of actually doing something about your problems. This is organized delusion. They're literally encouraging people to give up and put it into the hands of a God who clearly doesn't care about human affairs. The Church has some logical gymnastics they use to explain that one away, but if God cared he'd stop people from doing wrong. God is probably beyond fathomable and unlike humans in every way. How arrogant of the Christians Jews and Muslims to insinuate that God is like man and especially that an omnipotent master of reality needs worship from a bunch of slightly evolved monkeys on one of the universes millions of planets. Seriously man, don't be willfully delusional and call it faith.
One thing I found about her argument that I really didn’t see get brought up is that she basically said that the reason for being moral is that we as humans have empathy. Robert did say that certain cultures don’t value that empathy as much, which is true. But another thing that goes against what she said is the simple fact that not all humans are born with empathy. Psychopaths are not born with empathy and certain other mental conditions that some are born with also lead to an individual having much less empathy than what could be considered normal. For her perspective to make sense there would have to be a way for these people to just not count
18:00. The problem is she has all these strong beliefs, and emotions tied to them. Fine. What makes them true? Society? Majority opinion? If it’s only pleasure and not harming that doesn’t even cover most of the 7 deadly sins, you can be a selfish, lazy glutton and narcissist who just goes to work, lives for themself, and causes no harm. The closest this girl can say is that’s unhealthy but she can’t define that lifestyle as immoral, and that’s the problem.
I was thinking wow steward looks different something doesn’t seem right lol it’s his brother I imagine love how they all share the word and start where the other left off . May GOD keep blessing y’all 🙏🏻🙏🏻
she presented her case for ethics splendidly, health, happiness and well being, vs harm pain and suffering. Can you quote me anything she said which you fundamentally disagree with?. She was one of the best students I've seen in terms of debating on this channel.
@@bonnie43uk At about 16:20 when she comes out with the “Why do I have to defend this?” And she says, “There are things that are just starlight up wrong.” She totally contradicts herself. She starts as a moral relativist but then says there are things that are absolutely wrong. She has no basis to say that as a relativist.
@@omariparker3769 If you watch that bit, it comes just after an edit, so we don't know what she was referring to exactly. Where did she say she was a moral relativist?, she spoke very openly and honestly from what I could see. It's funny isn't it how we can take different meanings from what she said even though we have the exact words caught on film.
The young girl came across as really level headed, as she said, the "Do unto others" ( golden rule) is a really good human trait. It's a shame Christianity couldn't have jettisoned all the batshit crazy stuff, and honed the Bible down to include passages that were conducive to human well being, kindness and love. And condemned things like slavery, rape, torture in the highest possible means so that nobody could be in any doubt whatsoever that those kinds of acts were wholly unacceptable.
@@ChrisTheKing172 No, i don't Chris, hopefully there might be a few Christians reading this who can tell us. I want to hear more from the young girl, she certainly has her head screwed on the right way 🙂
@@ChrisTheKing172 Even more puzzling is why they seem to think that in order for someone to accept that a transcendent objective standard exists, they have to also believe that some supreme being that gave rise to it must also exist too. I know not all atheists do believe in transcendent objective morality, and I understand this, it's a complicated subject, atheists don't all agree on it but as I have said to Christian theists here, I am quite happy to agree with them that some form of a transcendent objective standard exists as a part of this overall objective reality we exist within, and that this is the basic building block of what we thinking creatures call 'morality/right and wrong/good and bad' etc. But where I part company with theists is that I fail to see why the ONLY explanation for it must be God, I mean, it COULD be, I can't prove it isn't, and I'm not ruling it out but I don't see the justification for Christian theists effectively saying to an atheist like myself that agrees that there is some type of objective morality that exists "hey, if you accept that a transcendent objective standard exists then you must accept that God/Jesus has to exist and you cannot accept the former without also accepting the latter....end of". Well, I don't accept this at all. I accept the former, no problem but I question the latter!
@@ChrisTheKing172 We can only hope Chris. There are dark clouds over America at the moment. If the democrats do lose the house and senate, and that is a distinct possibility, one thing they will not do, is call it a hoax and fix and attempt to overturn the result using a violent mob. That is the beginning of anarchy.
@@JohnCashin Excellent points John. There are plenty of video's here on TH-cam that show animals showing all kinds of moral traits, love, kindness, jealousy, anger, lots of animals will stand up to a much bigger predator if and when their young are in danger. Human beings are the most predominant species on the planet, we've been around a long long time, and our brain capacity and thinking skills have given us a major advantage over all other creatures, our ability to overcome problems and to work out how to make life better for ourselves has created incredible civilizations, .. but we also show elements of what Darwin called "The indelible stamp of our lowly origins", in that we also have the capacity to do brutish and inhuman things to one another. But we've certainly improved as a species overall. The good far outweighs the bad.
@@JohnCashinCould you explain how objective morality came to be and just what makes said morals correct without a deity? Yes, secularist can create very sound morals, but I don’t see how you can defend that your cultural rule/law can be objectively right without a God.
this is a bright and very smart girl,she has got a good head on her shoulders,but what I do not understand is some on this page thumbing her down or putting her down because she believes differently then others,let me all lay it out for you,you do not know this person''s heart or what has been through in her life,God knows her heart and where she stands with him,the thing is a lot of people use the bible like back in the racism days to manipulate,deceive,hold others down in chains and that is disgusting and immoral to say the least,just as their certain men who try and use the bible to try and justify abuse towards women and hold women in oppression by taking verses,scriptures and using them as weapons against women and treating them like they have no value or worth at all.
One interesting thing I noticed in her argumentation was that she seemed to have a problem with conforming everyone to one belief I guess because of the individuality of everyone
I still can't get over the fact that she sat there and said "If I were to go back to an Abrahamic religion, it would be Judaism because it's just cooler." while referencing the Torah as the reason she can't believe in the Christian God. Some people are ignorant beyond words.
As intelligent and articulate as this young woman is, she has way too high of an opinion of humanity throughout history and even today. You can find tons of evil everywhere, all around us, every day, even in the USA, even among groups who claim "We're all basically good people." The ones who make that claim are usually the worst hypocrites, whether they are in the Christian church or come from some other ethical background. We all want to think we're basically good: no one wants to admit their hearts are often selfish, wretched, and mean spirited. Most college students in the USA have never had a real challenge in their lives where they were forced to make a tough, moral decision that would personally cost them something extremely valuable. So it's pretty easy to assume I'm a moral person when I've never been truly tested. She's smart, so one day the contradiction will confront her, possibly when she does something or someone does something to her and she'll have a choice to seek or grant forgiveness or sweep it under the rug. My hope is then she'll be more interested in looking for something that is good, right, and moral outside of herself rather than trying to brush off her failings and that will inspire her to take another look at Jesus Chirst.
Sid,....Evil even in the usa? Really? The usa is babylon and is a 100% pure evil nation and always has been. Yes the ones who claim to be the most good (Godly) are the worst, and the church and the people of the church are the worst. Take another good look at Jesus? As if it is up to here to decide something. It appears you are under the 100% incorrect impression that we have freewill and can choose Jesus or choose to reject him. You are totally wrong and if this is what you think, you do not at all understand the Bible.
17m00s - "There are things just straight up wrong". Should have hit her with objective moral values and duties (a la William Lane Craig) right there. So she affirms they exist but WHERE does she get them FROM? Unfortunately, you missed that.
What you mean to say, if I'm not mistaken, is either there is an objective moral right and wrong, or everything is relative. If that is the case, then I totally agree. Morality is ultimately relative and there is no way it is objective.
This family ministry is doing a great job. I have learned a lot! God Bless You and Keep You Safe!! Is sad, to hear the way she contradicts her moral standards. She hardened her heart, doesn't want to go back to Christianity, because she thinks it's like a mafia and prefers Judaism. As I see it, she is angry at God because of the evil in the world and cannot understand why such a loving God allows suffering. She did missions. Those kinds of thoughts will cross our minds to make us feel useless. It is a spiritual battle, but God gave us the tools to strenght our spirit. When we feel confused, we need to talk to someone who can give us wise advice. For now, all we can do is pray for her, the Holy Spirit will make her realize that she needs Jesus...come home, my daughter.
The young woman is an example of someone who is using endless questions to try and run from God. She did not care about finding an answer, just covering up her own unbelief. Every time she gets an answer to a question she immediately changes subjects or reframes the question.
@Justin Gary yeah man I agree. In the Bible it says (1 Corinthians 3 18-19) “Stop deceiving yourselves. If you think you are wise by this world’s standards, you need to become a fool to be truly wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness to God. As the Scriptures say, “He traps the wise in the snare of their own cleverness.””
Hey Robert! Haven't seen him on the channel for years. I LITERALLY LOL'd when the girl said that if she turned to an "Abrahamic Faith" she would become a religious Jew because "they're cool," and then IMMEDIATELY criticize the Levitical Laws which are the cornerstone of religious Judaism. 🤣🤣🤣 This girl is so confused and hypocritical on her own position she really has no idea what she is talking. I legitimately question her "Christian" past.
“People should not harm one another” vs “People should do what is the best good for the general society”. She can’t see the contradiction. I think it’s the “we have modernised and have better morals” belief that affects people.
she came across as very logical to me my friend. We take each situation on it's merits, like she said, a desperate man stealing bread to feed himself shouldn't be seen as a big crime, quite rightly. But 200 years ago, someone stealing bread would get you hung. Our morals have improved greatly i would argue. Morals are "constant work in progress".
the girl kept shifting the golfpost constantly. knetchles repeatedly pointed the flaw in her logic about the question "where does her morality comes from" with their illustrations/examples but instead of admitting her mistake she dismisses any counter argument presented with blatant denial. saying no i do not agree isn't really a logical response. it's just rejection and it's clearly nothing but the pride of life. some truths just take years to settle in. i was just as dismissive of the reality of biblical claims like the kids in these videos and knetchles have to repeat the whole thing all over again. it's seriously frustrating to see how prideful these kids are but thank God for the incredible passion and compassion of Pastor Stuart and Sons, they keep at it. I was just like these kids in my college years and beyond, but many truths made sense over time as God, The Triune Person reveals Himself to those who truly seek Him.
As I am from India where hinduism has animals worshiping i want to state that in genesis bible clearly say that men have authority over beast & wild animals and hinduism just falls apart from that single Verse... Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.” Genesis 1:26 By her ideology As I speak Tamil which is oldest language in the world which we still speak, then she should worship tamil language I guess...
What people like that girl fail to understand is God doesn't send people to Hell. People CHOOSE to go Hell, and they don't even know it. Sin is the barrier that keeps you out of Heaven. That's why Jesus was sent here. He is the olive branch meant for everyone to hold onto so nobody would have to suffer for eternity. It just so happens that a lot of people end up there anyway, because they were either nihilistic and blind to the truth, or they refuse to accept him as Lord and savior. It's unfortunate, but to say that God isn't loving because there are consequences to the choices WE make is naive. That girl is just too caught up in her own sin to realize it.
And what you have failed to understand is that your insistence that either this 'God' or 'Hell' are realities is not based on ANY _evidentiary facts._ Is that correct?
@@tsananeomeno7963 God, heaven and hell were already proven reality by the life, death and resurrection of Jesus. The disciples were tortured to death for refusing to deny that he rose from the dead. Some of them were drowned in hot oil. Others were filleted like fish. This is well documented, and the records have been kept in Rome's government libraries. You tell me, would ANYBODY allow themselves to be killed like this over something they knew was a lie? How in the world are you gonna say none of this is evidentiary fact?
im amazed at the patience.. hehe she tried to explain how its morally wrong to do certain things.. but fails to realize, that without a higher power those things are all subjective,....
For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: .. Amen.
@@jessebryant9233 Can you present ANY _evidentiary facts_ that demonstrate that I am prideful and irrational in my position? YES or NO. Let's see if you can answer my straightforward question with a straightforward answer.
@@tsananeomeno7963 You sound like me before I was saved. There is this anger and thirst to debate. “Prove it to me!” I would shout to Christians. I wanted to mock them as the spirit of the people who mocked Jesus on the cross. But deep deep down, I wanted to know what they knew. I wanted God to be real. I was jealous of the joy Christians had, and the blessings. I thought Christians were naïve like they didn’t understand how rough life was and that’s why they had hope. But my friend you can be on your way to know Jesus and knowing peace with the passion you have to reject him. That passion is what Paul the apostle had, and God transformed that. You do not know that God loves you. You can hear those words but it’s not real to you yet.
This girl is very well spoken. We will be thankful to have her as a Christian once she figures out that the church of sexual anarchy can't live up to its promises.
@@saintpaulofyoutube4416 So, you tell me I missed the point, I ask you what the point was, and you refuse to tell me. Who's being ridiculous here Jeff? ... btw, i absolutely agree with you, the young girl was very well spoken, she made her points very articulately. It's good we can agree on something :-)
@@lycanthropegaming3432 according to the stories, he can be come a human. The claims about this god character, Yahweh, has already be made. The internet is full of claims about his behavior, the way he thinks, things he does and so on. Don't chime in acting as if there isn't a way to demonstrate the existence of Yahweh when people already claim he has "revealed" himself to them. Unless you want to admit everyone is lying. Just like Cliffe does.
@@atheistcomments imaginary lol just like you're little big bang theory see it will always be a theory an never proven through actual science because actual science is testing an experimenting so you know for 100 percent its in fact true so when even the so called experts say "we BELIEVE this happened but we don't know" it automatically becomes nonsense an no-longer science so go ahead an BELIEVE even though it will never be proven through actual science ..besides science itself says in order to have an explosion you need fuel to create an explosion but before the big bang there was absolutely nothing lol...... so let me get this straight absolutely nothing exploded an created everything besides explosions don't create order they only cause chaos an destruction you are welcome for having you're whole reality destroyed.
@@peacetree197 I'll just say I have no opinion about any science claims about the past. However, you guys say Yahweh exists in the present. There are claims all over the internet from people saying they have physical interactions and communicate with Yahweh. Great, demonstrate that. You going right to the big theory shows you understand and acknowledge Yahweh only exists as an imaginary character.
Impresssive minds at play here. I do resonate with her stance of being able to amalgamate a sense of ethics from logjc, empathy etc. Yet it does beg the question of if indeed there is a higher power entity...perhaps those traights have been seeded/bestowed from that Source? Itd be akin to a fish trying to dusprove the water it swims in. Or more specifically, the illusion of a seperate human totally autonomous from the breath of Spirit seemingly arriving at various ethicsl truth claims. 🤔🙏🤔
I really like these guys, for the most part. However, they have a very unbiblical doctrine of Hell. They also seem to deny the doctrine of the exclusivity of Christ, to some degree.
Christianity is the single greatest force for good to have ever existed on this planet. Nothing is even close. Christianity is such a force for good that it's superior to ever other doctrine.... even if there is no God.
@@saintpaulofyoutube4416 ,.....Well, you can pretend it is a joke but anyone and everyone that thinks/believes that the earth is the God hating atheist worlds fake spinning ball is in a 100% different and 100% opposing religion to the Bibles Christianity. You are 100% steeped in darkness, deception, and a fake christianity. Your real religion is the Godless worlds religion of scientism. You have just been deceived into thinking it is Christianity, it is not.
@@shadowbannedforspeakingtru1436 ohhh, I think it's a joke. More precisely, I think you are. Sorry, I think you probably mean well but I've got no interest in your antics. Good luck flatster.
@@saintpaulofyoutube4416 ,...Yes, I understand, to the spiritually dead and blind the truth of Gods word is a joke and just foolishness. What you have no interest in is the truth of the Bible. You only want and love the 100% fake christianity of these fake christians and the rest of the 100% apostate church. Your religion is scientism, the same religion of the entire Godless world, (the beast). You are just an atheist pretending to be a Christian. You will not be laughing on judgement day when Jesus casts you all into the lake of fire. Your laughing will turn to weeping and gnashing of teeth just as the Bible tells you. Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand! 1 Corinthians 1:18 "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God." 1 Corinthians 2:14 "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Corinthians 3:19 "For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness."
This girl does a very good job articulating her beliefs in a calm, rational manner against someone who does this professionally. Wether you agree with her or not, the fact that this comment section is full of hateful, myopic, and flat out incorrect comments dirrected at her shows a lot more about you folks than it does her. Your "god" is not real, its a man-made concept just like every single other god.
It's like a broken record with every non believer. Goodness is good because we say it is. And it's absolute because we as a group say it is. But can't answer the simple question why it's wrong for the culture of Haiti and its practices
@@ChrisTheKing172 So humans make up arbitrary and baseless views based upon personal preferences? Gee, do they all get to make up whatever "rules" they like based on their own arbitrary and baseless personal preferences? You know you're only lying to yourself, right?
@@jessebryant9233 What evidence do you have to support the idea that morality is objective? If you cannot show that morality is objective, then you must conclude the default position that it is just your opinion.
@@Generatorman59 If you believe that murder and rape is wrong 100/100, doesn’t matter the situation or the scenario then it’s no longer subjective. Someone can say that they believe rape is good to further support population when it’s going down. So who are you to tell them that they shouldn’t be raping people when morality is subjective. It’s a your truth vs my truth sort of a thing, so the next question you should ask is which person are we going to listen to for our understanding of truth, if it’s not a transcendent being that’s above us or culture then morality is subjective. Also, if it’s “just your opinion,” then don’t get upset when other people are raping or murdering. I hope you didn’t get upset with 9/11 either if you want to at least be consistent in your thinking, because it was their opinion to do so and they believed that what they are doing were right.
@@ChrisTheKing172 You're still saying this rape objectively shows that it's wrong. That harming humans is objectively wrong. Why is it. You can't just claim this "ethereal objective goodness" and be intellectually honest and consistent. You have no basis for claiming something is objectively good. Or human harm is objectively bad, outside your own personal bias both individually and culturally
@@lukecc1097 Let me start off by saying that I totally agree with Chris Brown. However, I would like to add my personal take on the subject. Human life has no intrinsic meaning, etc. We assign our own meaning to our lives. And it is obvious to me that different people assign different opinions about life’s worth and meaning, in accordance to their preferred values and goals. Actually, we all subjectively decide certain values and worth, whether we proclaim morality is subjective or objective. Some, like myself, place a high value on the only life that we are certain we have. I also place a high value on well-being, even though I admit that well-being is not well defined. Others empathizes their focus on some afterlife that they 'believe' exists. They claim that their moral foundation is a god. They claim that they know the nature of this god and they claim that they know what this god wants from them. Furthermore, they seem to know why they should abide by the things this god allegedly wants from them. Those people act in accordance with those beliefs. I am saying that it is their subjective opinion that any of this is actually true. If you have a subjective opinion of something, then all the consequences that follow must logically be subjective as well. And, even if the existence of this god were true, morality would still be subjective because it would be based on the subjective mind of this god. According to scripture, this god can change his mind and he can do as he pleases. That alone goes against the definition of objective morality. So, you see, we have a lot in common. Right and wrong is just our opinion. What I feel happens quite often is that people assume an act is say for example, objectively immoral, for the simple fact that they can't imagine anyone disagreeing with them. Let me ask you a very serious question: Do you think that the act of killing healthy babies is objectively immoral? I am very anxious to hear your answer to this simple yes or no question. Thanks.
"Murder is wrong"....yet most young people will vote for "abortion on demand" and not think twice. We are so messed up.
I thought the exact same thing.
Ahhhh yeah... kill but don't inconvenience... the subjectivists creed.
On this matter, and as an atheist, I would agree.
Or when a mother leaves her child in the car...these women accuse that mother of everything under the sun but believe in abortion... pffftt!
It’s like they act in accordance with the Christian Gods character
Many Christians grow up in a church but never grow in Christ. They know hymns, but they don’t know HIM.
Even the devil can quote scripture.
This was brutal to watch. It makes me realize how difficult it can be to articulate one's beliefs. Only God can change someone's heart. Only God can turn on the lights of understanding. Praying for her salvation
....he used His people to plant the seed and he gives the increase 🙏
She and her friends lives her good life according to her words. She will one day realize if the bible is true that this is not the requirement that God requires. Then it will be too late to change her view. If her heart isn't regenerated by God then all her beliefs , her goodness , will do nothing for her to inherit God's favor of an eternity in heaven. She is as lost as the worst sinner according to the bible.
Amen
The girl contradicts herself like 10 times in 10 minutes it’s amazing
I’ve ran into it myself and I’ve heard lots of these discussions and you can actually pinpoint the places where you realize that people don’t want to know God.
This young person for example made it clear that she believes people should be able to live their lives however they want and she would only follow a religion that suits her beliefs.
The part where she is admitting that it's so obvious that murder is wrong is just proving Stuarts point that there are objective morals. She is showing that morals are very very obvious with her actions and her words.
Hey Shock! Nice to come across your comments on some of these askcliffes like Easter eggs
She has no foundation for her “empathy and compassion”, the trials & tribulations of this world will crush those beliefs. A person has to have their foundation in Christ then the empathy and compassion for humankind will stay strong. (Build your house upon the Rock, not on the sand) Luke 6-47-49
@Justin Gary human standards are evil and have been pretty much throughout all of humanity.
@@NewtonVieira
You got that right, and we have two thousand years of Christian barbarism, to prove it.
@@sterlingfallsproductions3930 I can tell you from personal experience that as a follower of Christ, my life is so much better compared to when I wasn’t following Christ. So yes I can prove Jesus is the way cuz I had a personal experience. And having a foundation in compassion is needed because in this life we will all be tested in that area. Knowing what Christ did for me (died for me), helps me see that this life is not my own(Galatians 20:20), i am here to serve others and help share the good news. Basically I’m here on this earth as a vessel, only boasting in the Lord. (1 Corinthians 1:30-31)
Empathy is a foundation for subjective morality. You might subjectively dislike that foundation of find it unsatisfactory, but it's no less a foundation than your subjective satisfaction you feel following Christ
@@NewtonVieira every standard humans believe in are human standards. I don't know if you believe that a creator has the right to impose their morality on their creation, but if you do, that's still just your subjective opinion. I don't care if I create a being out of clay and breathe life into it, I would still feel guilty for hurting it. Feelings are the foundation for morality. Christians just feel good about an imaginary authority figure where as others feel good about making others feel good
Wow there’s another little Cliff I haven’t seen before!!!
right? Like this dude looks like Cliff but he aint Stuart haha
@@tagnenjosephs3124 Exactly! Lol 😂
@@tagnenjosephs3124 lol i thought the same :D
Does Cliff have a daughter?
@justingary5322 i appreciate you going into all of that. Was blessed and enjoyed reading it
I feel like I'm in a twilight zone as well. I can't believe that, with all the evidence, people still don't believe in God's existence.
She has Chosen not to believe simply because of Homosexuality. She is Telling God to change his mind accept Gay sex as normal or I will leave you. That's really sad.
@@scottfarley3644 What is really sad is God saying they shall be put to death.
@@Generatorman59 So you the clay pot think you have the right to tell the maker of the pot how to make it?
@@scottfarley3644 No, I would not tell God how to make anything. But I can say that killing babies and allowing your people to buy children from the strangers who dwelt among them is, in my opinion, vile and disgusting. I truly think this god of the bible is a moral thug.
@@Generatorman59 Well, you will have a chance to tell him to his face one day. I hope you enjoy the experience.
Bright girl. Imagine what she could do for the kingdom of God if the blinders were removed from her eyes.
She was Never saved while being part of a Christian family growing up. So she still has a chance.
Was that a girl?
No she's incredibly thick. She doesn't understand the basic dichotomy of subjective vs objective morals. Without and over arching authority, like God. Objective morals can't exist.
@@formallyknownasjojoemcpart6684 Agree. Thats doesn't change she's a bright, articulate young woman. Right now she's in darkness, believing a lie. If Holy Spirit removed the blinders and she became born again she would be great at evangelizing.
@@Darkshadow21298 doesn't change the fact she's bright & articulate albeit misguided or as you say "thick". We should have compassion for the lost, not disdain, since we oncr walked in darkness too. You dont think God could use her gift of debate for His Kindom purposes if she became saved? I do.
God bless this ministry for reaching out to our young men and woman with the truth of the Gospel.
Satan loves you
Love this channel! A Reformed Presbyterian Brother in California. “Grass withers and a flower fades, but the word of our Lord remains forever” Amen
Jesus is Lord God Almighty clothed in unsinful humanity and He is the author of "eternal life" to all who trust Him alone for salvation.
This means that saving repentance is realizing that you are a sinner deserving of God's just punishment in Hell and turn (repent) from whatever you trusted in before, if indeed you trusted in anything; to trusting in the person and finished work of Christ "alone" for salvation.
geez, so much knowledge , critical thinking, and patience in stuart & robert part.
First time I have seen Robert in the gauntlet. He did a great job articulating his position and explaining the problems with that of his opponent's. Well done!
@@robertmitchell8438 When did I state otherwise? Why does nobody know the definition of opponent? It literally just means someone who opposes your view or argument. And when you use gauntlet in this context, it means challenge.
Love to see Robert out there.. I'd not seen him before, but love his humility and wisdom.. bless you Robert, keep it up!
Robert is brilliant, he has a very calming approach to the audience and they listen.
The next time (I've heard it dozens of times on Cliff's videos) I hear a student say "I'm taking a (name the subject) class right now and we've learned that (name the truth claim or fact)" I'm going to puke. As though being 18 years old (almost zero life experience as a thinking adult) and taking a class in (name the subject) with no real exposure to other opinions now makes you an expert. Sorry for the rant. I pray for this articulate young lady (I'm hopeful she is a seeker) and other students, realizing what an incredible believer she has the potential to be! Keep up the good work, Knechtle's!
Cliffe must be so proud of his boys.
Continue discussing with them, God bless your work, Love you from Egypt
I want to thank both Stuart and Robert for this good presentation of Christianity and the great discussion that happened, I am sure if she sees this video, she will know the point that Morality is relative and change according to culture, Society and traditional beliefs
Love to see open debate ! Good job - preaching the gospel - John 3:16
Cliffe makes explaining these concepts look so easy😂
It's good to see Cliffe's other kids getting into these debates also.
All praise, honour and glory belongs to Jesus Christ, the King of kings and Lord of lords.
I like that they answer questions unlike you
@@jasonnoble7302
Good, I'm glad that they answer questions... If you pay attention to what they say, you might actually learn something for once. But as for me, I'm under no obligation to answer your same questions over and over again.
@@GraftedOliveBranch
I know, YOU just make claims and run away
Oh well
@@jasonnoble7302
I wouldn't say that I'm "running away" from anything, i just prefer not to waste time with people such as yourself.
God is great
So good
True...but that sounds like you're Muslim. 😀
("ALLUHU AKBAR!")
@@leftwingersareweak no I'm a Christian Job 36:26
[26]Behold, God is great, and we know him not, neither can the number of his years be searched out.
@@siphesihlemasikane what are you?
@@siphesihlemasikane But where did I state you were a Christian?
She was good. Debating off the cuff like that, and not getting angry or upset - I enjoyed the conversation. It'll be amazing if in a few years she looks back on it as the foundational conversation of her faith journey.
I remember wrestling with justifying ethical issues while in college.
Thank God that He saved me when I realized that I have no ethics apart from Christ!!!
Professing to be wise they became fools. I pray this young lady opens her heart to the only answer for everlasting life.
JH,.....Are you saying that it is up to here to open her heart and to make a decision, or accept something?
Oh my gosh at 18:30 she talks about morality being arrived at by debate. lol Debate??? Oh man, so whoever wins the debate can create morality? Sounds like something the Nazis did. Might makes right....thank God I Ieft the madness of atheism.
What a neat surprise seeing Robert talking and listening. I thought he looked like Stewart had a haircut, or perhaps it was a clip from an old video of Cliffe.
She is intelligent but she clearly has a Christian perspective on morality but pertains it to personal and societal conditioning and still expects her truth to be the right one. She also severely underestimates the rigidity of other cultures. Honor and status is deeply deeply valued in South Asians cultures to the point dissent is some times replied with violence. A single person cannot change thousands of years of conditioning.
@@JoshJ12 I thought it was interesting that she also mentioned something to the effect of, there isn't enough physical proof or evidence right now to become convinced. I share this view to some extent, in that christians I hang out with tell me praying for healing works, but I do not see the results of that today, or at least not to the extent that healing wouldn't have happened anyway, without prayer. Because this claim about praying for healing appears unfounded, I struggle to believe what other things Christians are preaching.
@Justin Gary I follow your instagram account now, although I don't normally use it.
I wasn't sure if your reply was meant for me specifically, it was a fair bit to read.
I guess I was trying to make a point of how some things are preached (using current day healing as an example) are not founded with evidence.
This leaves me to think it is plausible that other things being preached may also be unfounded, but simply accepted because a teacher/preacher told them it is true.
Because it is difficult for me to personally verify the authenticity of ancient manuscripts, I rely on trust in the integrity and ability of experts to get it right. However the same would go for non christian point of views. This is where you and I seem to agree wrt evolution. This theory seems implausible on account that it does not allow for the miraculous, which I think it needs to be plausible.
But then I for the christian point of view (which I lean towards), I struggle with the evidence of God as we are taught by preachers.
For example
I don't see evidence that people are hearing God's voice short of our conscience. Although plenty say they can.
I don't see people being healed due to asking God to heal. Although people say it is happens.
I don't see evidence that asking Jesus to save you, changes you to a better person (whatever better is)
I also struggle to understand the definition of "faith", "believe" and what defines a church.
I still question the whole tithe thing, which seems to me is something more like tax within the jewish community.
I don't trust church leaders, or confident christians; my experience is that the more I know about a subject, the more I know I don't know.
when the video started i said wow Stuart is really starting to look like cliffe haha, i never knew about robert until now
@@kiwi_velonaut Prayers are a direct communication with a creator through were the flesh, soul and spirit unite to laugh, cry, be angry to God. Nevertheless, miracles are rare to the point where the entirety of miracles in the Bible occurred over 1000s of years. Tbh I understand your point too, but I have faith that time is always revealing God's work even if it takes generations.
great to see how proficient the American 'indoctrination' centres have been. go America, you guys should be proud of your people xxx!
Yes. We have spawned the church of sexual anarchy. We're paying there price too.
Don't get complacent. It's not just America, it's the entire west. All of Europe is corrupted too.
We all WANT to desperately believe....why? Because life is so tough and we ask, is this it? Is this all there is? So that is how they hook you...one's desire to believe that there is in fact, something better.
It is maddening when someone never concedes the point, which is what this girl does consistently when you show her the inconsistencies of what she has built her life upon.
I don't know how you can live without the Lord, but to just ignore your inconsistencies and gather for yourselves others who are doing the same thing. You want this world so much or sin so much?
Why, where has that gotten you?
Rather then excepting the love ofJesus Christ who died for you and when you believe in Him, He sets you free from sin and death forever. It is sad that people believe the world will last forever. This world is passing away. Come to Christ!
It's "I don't know, I will never know, but it's not that! It could be these other Gods! But that one doesn't seem loving!" --- simply misunderstanding. 1 Corinthians 3:18 Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise.
pride
@@youbloodybloodworktimejasper
Bingo!
He should have said "Ok, you think it's wrong. Who cares?.....I am not saying for you to go over there and change anything yourself. I'm trying to explain, and show you, that your belief in "Moral relativism" means it doesn't matter if you think what others are doing is wrong. Keep thinking it. No one's going to stop you. But you clutching your pearls, and implying that others who don't share the same morals as you should stop what the majority of their ppl believe in is hypocrisy. If no culture is better than any other, then what you morally believe in means absolutely nothing."
Really enjoyed the other brother talk. I've seen every video and the oldest brother seems to have the passion of cliffe but Robert seems to have an empathy for people and you can see his pauses and mannerisms when he talks that points to someone who really cares about what they're trying to convey
do you think he succeeded in convincing the young lady?
@@robertmitchell8438 thanks, it was a hard listen as they were all talking over one another for a lot of the time, but yeah, she painted herself into a corner there for sure. Shame Matt's gone now.
@@bonnie43uk was Matt the third son? Did he pass away?
@@tylerwhitney3443 i've lost track of this conversation, who is Matt?
@@bonnie43uk you said "Shame Matt is gone"
I think something that’s very important with the ethical arguments is first establishing if each party believes humans are equal. If both parties agree humans are equal, then you can go into the notion that you as a human have no right whatsoever to impede on someone else’s subjective morals because you and that person are of the same value. If they disagree, then that shows that there is something above their own subjective morality that is stronger than humans. It also shows that if all humans are equal, why? Why would people believe all humans are equal unless there is something outside of humanity giving it its value?
Bible never says to marry your rapist. A rapist if judged would be killed. The Bible talks about consensual sex out of marriage. If they are caught they are to marry.
What scripture is that
This conversation would have been shorter if you had gone Ray Comfort on her. Use the moral law she's laying claims to as a mirror for her to see herself as God sees her. This would have ended much sooner.
Exactly, that's just it, by the deeds of the law, (the ten commandment) no flesh or man is justified.
they werent interested in proving their point , this was a contest of , im smarter then you are , while never making a point and jumping from one argument to another
Love u Cliff n your fam
"people should not harm one another".....unless I feel different about it...then its my truth!
So much respect for this lady. She has a real gift for articulating her ideas on the spot.
If this were a real discussion instead of a sales pitch, it would have been truly fantastic.
She articulates well… but really needs to examine her beliefs deeper. I don’t see how you can claim you want to follow Judaism and in the same breath show anger towards the “archaic” portions of Christianity…. Which is essentially the central parts of Judaism.
She just speaks. She doesn’t rationalize her points enough. She is just repeating what her professor of gender studies taught her. I’ve heard more coherent arguments from hardcore atheists.
@@IffyEdem Nah, I've got to give credit where it's due. I've seen people who parrot...This lady is trying to make sense of things (assuming I recall correctly - my comment was made a year ago).
She has no idea how much pride she has
As a 75 year old free thinker I found the Bible deeply disappointing, especially the genocides, the threats of damnation, and the childish demands by a Hebrew god for endless praise and worship. It's embarrassing.
Precisely, sir… why would God need worship?
I find you deeply disappointing you need to repent before you go in to eternity and have to face God and judgement
@@jeffrey6618 Keep going to sleep believing that I will be punished for saying words and God will solve all your problems in the end, instead of actually doing something about your problems. This is organized delusion. They're literally encouraging people to give up and put it into the hands of a God who clearly doesn't care about human affairs. The Church has some logical gymnastics they use to explain that one away, but if God cared he'd stop people from doing wrong. God is probably beyond fathomable and unlike humans in every way. How arrogant of the Christians Jews and Muslims to insinuate that God is like man and especially that an omnipotent master of reality needs worship from a bunch of slightly evolved monkeys on one of the universes millions of planets. Seriously man, don't be willfully delusional and call it faith.
One thing I found about her argument that I really didn’t see get brought up is that she basically said that the reason for being moral is that we as humans have empathy. Robert did say that certain cultures don’t value that empathy as much, which is true. But another thing that goes against what she said is the simple fact that not all humans are born with empathy. Psychopaths are not born with empathy and certain other mental conditions that some are born with also lead to an individual having much less empathy than what could be considered normal. For her perspective to make sense there would have to be a way for these people to just not count
Good job Robert! Glad to see you up there!
18:00. The problem is she has all these strong beliefs, and emotions tied to them. Fine. What makes them true? Society? Majority opinion? If it’s only pleasure and not harming that doesn’t even cover most of the 7 deadly sins, you can be a selfish, lazy glutton and narcissist who just goes to work, lives for themself, and causes no harm. The closest this girl can say is that’s unhealthy but she can’t define that lifestyle as immoral, and that’s the problem.
I love this, especially the ending
“Flat out rejection shouldn’t keep me from getting what he offers”
That girl is so wrong on a lot of these “facts” it’s laughable.
I was thinking wow steward looks different something doesn’t seem right lol it’s his brother I imagine love how they all share the word and start where the other left off . May GOD keep blessing y’all 🙏🏻🙏🏻
Stuart is so solid! Great stuff
This is a prime example that there is some objectivity in this world, and not everything is subjective.
Most if not all things are objective and clear, we just place our emotions into them.
Her Ethics class has failed her.
The epitome of “professing themselves to be wise they became fools”
she presented her case for ethics splendidly, health, happiness and well being, vs harm pain and suffering. Can you quote me anything she said which you fundamentally disagree with?. She was one of the best students I've seen in terms of debating on this channel.
@@bonnie43uk At about 16:20 when she comes out with the “Why do I have to defend this?” And she says, “There are things that are just starlight up wrong.” She totally contradicts herself. She starts as a moral relativist but then says there are things that are absolutely wrong. She has no basis to say that as a relativist.
@@omariparker3769 If you watch that bit, it comes just after an edit, so we don't know what she was referring to exactly. Where did she say she was a moral relativist?, she spoke very openly and honestly from what I could see. It's funny isn't it how we can take different meanings from what she said even though we have the exact words caught on film.
It's no longer ethical. Just a hotbed for Satan.
The young girl came across as really level headed, as she said, the "Do unto others" ( golden rule) is a really good human trait. It's a shame Christianity couldn't have jettisoned all the batshit crazy stuff, and honed the Bible down to include passages that were conducive to human well being, kindness and love. And condemned things like slavery, rape, torture in the highest possible means so that nobody could be in any doubt whatsoever that those kinds of acts were wholly unacceptable.
@@ChrisTheKing172 No, i don't Chris, hopefully there might be a few Christians reading this who can tell us. I want to hear more from the young girl, she certainly has her head screwed on the right way 🙂
@@ChrisTheKing172 Even more puzzling is why they seem to think that in order for someone to accept that a transcendent objective standard exists, they have to also believe that some supreme being that gave rise to it must also exist too. I know not all atheists do believe in transcendent objective morality, and I understand this, it's a complicated subject, atheists don't all agree on it but as I have said to Christian theists here, I am quite happy to agree with them that some form of a transcendent objective standard exists as a part of this overall objective reality we exist within, and that this is the basic building block of what we thinking creatures call 'morality/right and wrong/good and bad' etc.
But where I part company with theists is that I fail to see why the ONLY explanation for it must be God, I mean, it COULD be, I can't prove it isn't, and I'm not ruling it out but I don't see the justification for Christian theists effectively saying to an atheist like myself that agrees that there is some type of objective morality that exists "hey, if you accept that a transcendent objective standard exists then you must accept that God/Jesus has to exist and you cannot accept the former without also accepting the latter....end of". Well, I don't accept this at all. I accept the former, no problem but I question the latter!
@@ChrisTheKing172 We can only hope Chris. There are dark clouds over America at the moment. If the democrats do lose the house and senate, and that is a distinct possibility, one thing they will not do, is call it a hoax and fix and attempt to overturn the result using a violent mob. That is the beginning of anarchy.
@@JohnCashin Excellent points John. There are plenty of video's here on TH-cam that show animals showing all kinds of moral traits, love, kindness, jealousy, anger, lots of animals will stand up to a much bigger predator if and when their young are in danger. Human beings are the most predominant species on the planet, we've been around a long long time, and our brain capacity and thinking skills have given us a major advantage over all other creatures, our ability to overcome problems and to work out how to make life better for ourselves has created incredible civilizations, .. but we also show elements of what Darwin called "The indelible stamp of our lowly origins", in that we also have the capacity to do brutish and inhuman things to one another. But we've certainly improved as a species overall. The good far outweighs the bad.
@@JohnCashinCould you explain how objective morality came to be and just what makes said morals correct without a deity?
Yes, secularist can create very sound morals, but I don’t see how you can defend that your cultural rule/law can be objectively right without a God.
this is a bright and very smart girl,she has got a good head on her shoulders,but what I do not understand is some on this page thumbing her down or putting her down because she believes differently then others,let me all lay it out for you,you do not know this person''s heart or what has been through in her life,God knows her heart and where she stands with him,the thing is a lot of people use the bible like back in the racism days to manipulate,deceive,hold others down in chains and that is disgusting and immoral to say the least,just as their certain men who try and use the bible to try and justify abuse towards women and hold women in oppression by taking verses,scriptures and using them as weapons against women and treating them like they have no value or worth at all.
One interesting thing I noticed in her argumentation was that she seemed to have a problem with conforming everyone to one belief I guess because of the individuality of everyone
I still can't get over the fact that she sat there and said "If I were to go back to an Abrahamic religion, it would be Judaism because it's just cooler." while referencing the Torah as the reason she can't believe in the Christian God. Some people are ignorant beyond words.
First time seeing Robert speak
god i love this sort of true discourse, i didnt think it existed anymore, never mind on a campus
As intelligent and articulate as this young woman is, she has way too high of an opinion of humanity throughout history and even today. You can find tons of evil everywhere, all around us, every day, even in the USA, even among groups who claim "We're all basically good people." The ones who make that claim are usually the worst hypocrites, whether they are in the Christian church or come from some other ethical background. We all want to think we're basically good: no one wants to admit their hearts are often selfish, wretched, and mean spirited.
Most college students in the USA have never had a real challenge in their lives where they were forced to make a tough, moral decision that would personally cost them something extremely valuable. So it's pretty easy to assume I'm a moral person when I've never been truly tested. She's smart, so one day the contradiction will confront her, possibly when she does something or someone does something to her and she'll have a choice to seek or grant forgiveness or sweep it under the rug. My hope is then she'll be more interested in looking for something that is good, right, and moral outside of herself rather than trying to brush off her failings and that will inspire her to take another look at Jesus Chirst.
Sid,....Evil even in the usa? Really? The usa is babylon and is a 100% pure evil nation and always has been. Yes the ones who claim to be the most good (Godly) are the worst, and the church and the people of the church are the worst.
Take another good look at Jesus? As if it is up to here to decide something. It appears you are under the 100% incorrect impression that we have freewill and can choose Jesus or choose to reject him. You are totally wrong and if this is what you think, you do not at all understand the Bible.
Isn't it sad that most of their disagreements are concerned with sex?
They love their lust. They don't realize that their lust is just material and won't save them. Can't take it with you when you're gone.
17m00s - "There are things just straight up wrong". Should have hit her with objective moral values and duties (a la William Lane Craig) right there. So she affirms they exist but WHERE does she get them FROM?
Unfortunately, you missed that.
why would it be wrong if I beat a dog to death with a baseball bat?
This gave me joy thanks for what you guys do
Either there is an objective moral right and wrong, or everything is relative. I don’t get why that concept is so hard for her to grasp
What you mean to say, if I'm not mistaken, is either there is an objective moral right and wrong, or everything is relative. If that is the case, then I totally agree. Morality is ultimately relative and there is no way it is objective.
@@Generatorman59 Yes. Thanks for the call out. I’ve updated my comment to clarify
This family ministry is doing a great job. I have learned a lot! God Bless You and Keep You Safe!!
Is sad, to hear the way she contradicts her moral standards. She hardened her heart, doesn't want to go back to Christianity, because she thinks it's like a mafia and prefers Judaism. As I see it, she is angry at God because of the evil in the world and cannot understand why such a loving God allows suffering. She did missions. Those kinds of thoughts will cross our minds to make us feel useless. It is a spiritual battle, but God gave us the tools to strenght our spirit. When we feel confused, we need to talk to someone who can give us wise advice. For now, all we can do is pray for her, the Holy Spirit will make her realize that she needs Jesus...come home, my daughter.
YP,....No, actually they are not. They are selling a 100% false gospel. They are only trying to snare these lost people into their fake christianity.
Wow Jesus bless you all
The young woman is an example of someone who is using endless questions to try and run from God. She did not care about finding an answer, just covering up her own unbelief. Every time she gets an answer to a question she immediately changes subjects or reframes the question.
That girl doesn’t not listen
@Justin Gary yeah man I agree. In the Bible it says (1 Corinthians 3 18-19)
“Stop deceiving yourselves. If you think you are wise by this world’s standards, you need to become a fool to be truly wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness to God. As the Scriptures say, “He traps the wise in the snare of their own cleverness.””
@Justin Gary personally I feel life is more than school and what you learn. We don’t live life by science we live life because we are alive.
so nice to see you standing up for the faith. are you brothers? how is Cliff?
Hey Robert! Haven't seen him on the channel for years.
I LITERALLY LOL'd when the girl said that if she turned to an "Abrahamic Faith" she would become a religious Jew because "they're cool," and then IMMEDIATELY criticize the Levitical Laws which are the cornerstone of religious Judaism. 🤣🤣🤣
This girl is so confused and hypocritical on her own position she really has no idea what she is talking. I legitimately question her "Christian" past.
Yeah she wasn’t doing nearly as well as she thought she was
This is great! Are the younger Knechtle men both Cliffe's sons? I like that the whole family is out in public witnessing for Christ.
AW,.....They are not witnessing for the Jesus of the Bible, they are only selling the apostate churches fake christianity.
I feel!
“People should not harm one another” vs “People should do what is the best good for the general society”. She can’t see the contradiction. I think it’s the “we have modernised and have better morals” belief that affects people.
she came across as very logical to me my friend. We take each situation on it's merits, like she said, a desperate man stealing bread to feed himself shouldn't be seen as a big crime, quite rightly. But 200 years ago, someone stealing bread would get you hung. Our morals have improved greatly i would argue. Morals are "constant work in progress".
I am from Hindu country which have all sort of Gods. But none of them are right. I am so blessed to know Jesus and for my salvation.
Keep looking, this one isn't real either.
@@Generatorman59 which one is right?
This was good dialogue
The girl held her own very well she lasted a lot longer than most people who debate with the knechtle’s in these videos
No she didn't, she was very confused which is why it lasted so long.
pride comes before a fall - sprung to my mind while watching her.
Its her lack of understanding that kept her going on
the girl kept shifting the golfpost constantly. knetchles repeatedly pointed the flaw in her logic about the question "where does her morality comes from" with their illustrations/examples but instead of admitting her mistake she dismisses any counter argument presented with blatant denial. saying no i do not agree isn't really a logical response. it's just rejection and it's clearly nothing but the pride of life. some truths just take years to settle in. i was just as dismissive of the reality of biblical claims like the kids in these videos and knetchles have to repeat the whole thing all over again. it's seriously frustrating to see how prideful these kids are but thank God for the incredible passion and compassion of Pastor Stuart and Sons, they keep at it. I was just like these kids in my college years and beyond, but many truths made sense over time as God, The Triune Person reveals Himself to those who truly seek Him.
@@melodykeogh Most american women
As I am from India where hinduism has animals worshiping i want to state that in genesis bible clearly say that men have authority over beast & wild animals and hinduism just falls apart from that single Verse...
Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
Genesis 1:26
By her ideology As I speak Tamil which is oldest language in the world which we still speak, then she should worship tamil language I guess...
What people like that girl fail to understand is God doesn't send people to Hell. People CHOOSE to go Hell, and they don't even know it. Sin is the barrier that keeps you out of Heaven. That's why Jesus was sent here. He is the olive branch meant for everyone to hold onto so nobody would have to suffer for eternity. It just so happens that a lot of people end up there anyway, because they were either nihilistic and blind to the truth, or they refuse to accept him as Lord and savior. It's unfortunate, but to say that God isn't loving because there are consequences to the choices WE make is naive. That girl is just too caught up in her own sin to realize it.
And what you have failed to understand is that your insistence that either this 'God' or 'Hell' are realities is not based on ANY _evidentiary facts._ Is that correct?
@@tsananeomeno7963 God, heaven and hell were already proven reality by the life, death and resurrection of Jesus. The disciples were tortured to death for refusing to deny that he rose from the dead. Some of them were drowned in hot oil. Others were filleted like fish. This is well documented, and the records have been kept in Rome's government libraries. You tell me, would ANYBODY allow themselves to be killed like this over something they knew was a lie? How in the world are you gonna say none of this is evidentiary fact?
Hell is an event not a destination
im amazed at the patience.. hehe she tried to explain how its morally wrong to do certain things.. but fails to realize, that without a higher power those things are all subjective,....
You're not in the twilight zone now, mam. You're just waking up from your twilight zone!
Wait. This is a new guy!
For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: .. Amen.
So how have you determined anything to have been _created_ by this 'Him'?
Nice seeing Robert again😁
Athiests are so prideful
And totally irrational too
And this woukd be ALL atheists, correct?
@@tsananeomeno7963
Yes. ALL atheists.
@@jessebryant9233 Can you present ANY _evidentiary facts_ that demonstrate that I am prideful and irrational in my position? YES or NO. Let's see if you can answer my straightforward question with a straightforward answer.
@@tsananeomeno7963 You sound like me before I was saved. There is this anger and thirst to debate. “Prove it to me!” I would shout to Christians. I wanted to mock them as the spirit of the people who mocked Jesus on the cross. But deep deep down, I wanted to know what they knew. I wanted God to be real. I was jealous of the joy Christians had, and the blessings. I thought Christians were naïve like they didn’t understand how rough life was and that’s why they had hope. But my friend you can be on your way to know Jesus and knowing peace with the passion you have to reject him. That passion is what Paul the apostle had, and God transformed that. You do not know that God loves you. You can hear those words but it’s not real to you yet.
God bless you🙏🏼
This girl is very well spoken. We will be thankful to have her as a Christian once she figures out that the church of sexual anarchy can't live up to its promises.
Hmmm, who gets to say what is sexually ok and what is not ok?
And the gold medal for missing the point goes to.........bonnie43uk. SMH
@@saintpaulofyoutube4416 Heh, ok, explain to me the point.
@@bonnie43uk nah. Doesn't matter what I say to you. You'll spit back something entirely different anyway. You're ridiculous.
@@saintpaulofyoutube4416 So, you tell me I missed the point, I ask you what the point was, and you refuse to tell me. Who's being ridiculous here Jeff? ... btw, i absolutely agree with you, the young girl was very well spoken, she made her points very articulately. It's good we can agree on something :-)
She is 🥰 adorable
Come on Cliffe. Just demonstrate the existence of Yahweh in reality in real-time as a sentient being as claimed.
How can you see God in all of his glory?
@@lycanthropegaming3432 according to the stories, he can be come a human. The claims about this god character, Yahweh, has already be made. The internet is full of claims about his behavior, the way he thinks, things he does and so on.
Don't chime in acting as if there isn't a way to demonstrate the existence of Yahweh when people already claim he has "revealed" himself to them. Unless you want to admit everyone is lying. Just like Cliffe does.
@@lycanthropegaming3432 another answer is Yahweh is an imaginary character like a character in a video game.
@@atheistcomments imaginary lol just like you're little big bang theory see it will always be a theory an never proven through actual science because actual science is testing an experimenting so you know for 100 percent its in fact true so when even the so called experts say "we BELIEVE this happened but we don't know" it automatically becomes nonsense an no-longer science so go ahead an BELIEVE even though it will never be proven through actual science ..besides science itself says in order to have an explosion you need fuel to create an explosion but before the big bang there was absolutely nothing lol...... so let me get this straight absolutely nothing exploded an created everything besides explosions don't create order they only cause chaos an destruction you are welcome for having you're whole reality destroyed.
@@peacetree197 I'll just say I have no opinion about any science claims about the past. However, you guys say Yahweh exists in the present. There are claims all over the internet from people saying they have physical interactions and communicate with Yahweh. Great, demonstrate that.
You going right to the big theory shows you understand and acknowledge Yahweh only exists as an imaginary character.
Good job, did miss some of Cliffe's uppercuts, to make her realize her relative world view.
Impresssive minds at play here. I do resonate with her stance of being able to amalgamate a sense of ethics from logjc, empathy etc. Yet it does beg the question of if indeed there is a higher power entity...perhaps those traights have been seeded/bestowed from that Source?
Itd be akin to a fish trying to dusprove the water it swims in.
Or more specifically, the illusion of a seperate human totally autonomous from the breath of Spirit seemingly arriving at various ethicsl truth claims.
🤔🙏🤔
If you go back to one of the old videos, you will see Robert. He was way younger then.
no way , are you sure
no way , are you sure
Comparing Jesus to mafia. I can’t even.
Great discussion
I really like these guys, for the most part. However, they have a very unbiblical doctrine of Hell. They also seem to deny the doctrine of the exclusivity of Christ, to some degree.
Her heart gotta be hardened because how don’t you understand
I love when cliffe is sneaking around XD
Christianity is the single greatest force for good to have ever existed on this planet. Nothing is even close.
Christianity is such a force for good that it's superior to ever other doctrine.... even if there is no God.
SPOYT,....Planet? What? The earth is not a planet. That false belief is a 100% different and opposing religion to the Bibles Christianity.
@@shadowbannedforspeakingtru1436 mmmk. I can't talk to you. My tin foil hat is all wrinkled up. Sorry.
@@saintpaulofyoutube4416 ,.....Well, you can pretend it is a joke but anyone and everyone that thinks/believes that the earth is the God hating atheist worlds fake spinning ball is in a 100% different and 100% opposing religion to the Bibles Christianity.
You are 100% steeped in darkness, deception, and a fake christianity. Your real religion is the Godless worlds religion of scientism. You have just been deceived into thinking it is Christianity, it is not.
@@shadowbannedforspeakingtru1436 ohhh, I think it's a joke. More precisely, I think you are. Sorry, I think you probably mean well but I've got no interest in your antics. Good luck flatster.
@@saintpaulofyoutube4416 ,...Yes, I understand, to the spiritually dead and blind the truth of Gods word is a joke and just foolishness. What you have no interest in is the truth of the Bible. You only want and love the 100% fake christianity of these fake christians and the rest of the 100% apostate church.
Your religion is scientism, the same religion of the entire Godless world, (the beast). You are just an atheist pretending to be a Christian.
You will not be laughing on judgement day when Jesus casts you all into the lake of fire. Your laughing will turn to weeping and gnashing of teeth just as the Bible tells you. Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!
1 Corinthians 1:18
"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God."
1 Corinthians 2:14
"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."
1 Corinthians 3:19
"For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness."
You just made me realize that hell starts right after you reject Jesus Christ in this life
This.
This girl does a very good job articulating her beliefs in a calm, rational manner against someone who does this professionally.
Wether you agree with her or not, the fact that this comment section is full of hateful, myopic, and flat out incorrect comments dirrected at her shows a lot more about you folks than it does her.
Your "god" is not real, its a man-made concept just like every single other god.
I agree, she was superb in her articulation. Not easy against well trained apologists.
@@BE-ew2pt what weird sexual comments? ,, in this video? I'm confused.
I agree with the first two statements.
Lol the people in the comments are just disagreeing with her. That’s not hateful.
Stuart was on fire!
It's like a broken record with every non believer. Goodness is good because we say it is. And it's absolute because we as a group say it is. But can't answer the simple question why it's wrong for the culture of Haiti and its practices
@@ChrisTheKing172
So humans make up arbitrary and baseless views based upon personal preferences? Gee, do they all get to make up whatever "rules" they like based on their own arbitrary and baseless personal preferences? You know you're only lying to yourself, right?
@@jessebryant9233 What evidence do you have to support the idea that morality is objective? If you cannot show that morality is objective, then you must conclude the default position that it is just your opinion.
@@Generatorman59 If you believe that murder and rape is wrong 100/100, doesn’t matter the situation or the scenario then it’s no longer subjective. Someone can say that they believe rape is good to further support population when it’s going down. So who are you to tell them that they shouldn’t be raping people when morality is subjective. It’s a your truth vs my truth sort of a thing, so the next question you should ask is which person are we going to listen to for our understanding of truth, if it’s not a transcendent being that’s above us or culture then morality is subjective. Also, if it’s “just your opinion,” then don’t get upset when other people are raping or murdering. I hope you didn’t get upset with 9/11 either if you want to at least be consistent in your thinking, because it was their opinion to do so and they believed that what they are doing were right.
@@ChrisTheKing172 You're still saying this rape objectively shows that it's wrong. That harming humans is objectively wrong. Why is it. You can't just claim this "ethereal objective goodness" and be intellectually honest and consistent. You have no basis for claiming something is objectively good. Or human harm is objectively bad, outside your own personal bias both individually and culturally
@@lukecc1097 Let me start off by saying that I totally agree with Chris Brown. However, I would like to add my personal take on the subject.
Human life has no intrinsic meaning, etc. We assign our own meaning to our lives. And it is obvious to me that different people assign different opinions about life’s worth and meaning, in accordance to their preferred values and goals. Actually, we all subjectively decide certain values and worth, whether we proclaim morality is subjective or objective. Some, like myself, place a high value on the only life that we are certain we have. I also place a high value on well-being, even though I admit that well-being is not well defined.
Others empathizes their focus on some afterlife that they 'believe' exists. They claim that their moral foundation is a god. They claim that they know the nature of this god and they claim that they know what this god wants from them. Furthermore, they seem to know why they should abide by the things this god allegedly wants from them.
Those people act in accordance with those beliefs. I am saying that it is their subjective opinion that any of this is actually true. If you have a subjective opinion of something, then all the consequences that follow must logically be subjective as well.
And, even if the existence of this god were true, morality would still be subjective because it would be based on the subjective mind of this god. According to scripture, this god can change his mind and he can do as he pleases. That alone goes against the definition of objective morality.
So, you see, we have a lot in common. Right and wrong is just our opinion.
What I feel happens quite often is that people assume an act is say for example, objectively immoral, for the simple fact that they can't imagine anyone disagreeing with them. Let me ask you a very serious question: Do you think that the act of killing healthy babies is objectively immoral? I am very anxious to hear your answer to this simple yes or no question. Thanks.
I enjoy watching these videos, The comment section gets annoying but that's not unnatural
She's too smart not to understand their point. She's pretending she doesn't comprehend because she doesn't want to concede to the truth.
Why I kept seeing Cliffe in the background like "I would cook her logic fr" 😂 (just a joke btw)