You’re absolutely right. As a guy, one of the first if not the first thing I notice when I see a women is how attractive she is. I can’t help it, it’s just how it is. But seeing her as a sexual object is another thing completely and can be avoided if you have a healthy mindset and see her as a person
I totally agree, if I know the man I will also definitely be happy about the compliment... But I bet you've also experienced before that somebody compliments you or simply says hello, and if you react to that in any way like a smile, small nod or even quick eye contact, they start acting creepy and following you etc. :( It's sad, especially with a simple greeting, but I sure have cursed myself before after having been too friendly, thus too inviting to random a man before
Fr I get nervous just walking past a group of guys and have had incidents where I’ve even been followed including late at night so it’s actually kinda scary
@@aleaf1494 I thought looking at woman in a sexuel way was the dehumanizing part? Can you help me understand cause honestly I'm having trouble understanding what's being respectable if your looking at a woman in a sexual way and what's dehumanizing.
I've been catcalled by creepy men even in huge hoodies and athletic clothes, it's not about dressing explictly, it's about how power deprived these men feel.
It's easy to think this because of so many men being hostile and aggressive, but really most men have grown up with barely half of the attention and affection most women receive on a daily basis. They're starved for it. They crave it in such a strong way that yes, even a single look or compliment can cause a guy to obsess over a girl to an unhealthy degree. It's sad and I wish more women could see how just how desperate for love most men are.
@@MossMan4288 what kind of attention do u think women receive daily?? Objectification?? Attention we dont actually want?? Idk why anyone would crave that, but ok
@@MossMan4288 why is it that us women should see how attention starved men are when we're the ones paying the most for the way boys are socialized into sociopathic men? This feels like a conversation men need to have amongst themselves if they want a richer emotional life
@@Julie-ox1ez most women are acknowledged and given compliments all the time. Despite who they come from. Some people out there are literally never given any kind of positive affirmation at all in any form. I'm not saying that any woman would crave negative attention. I'm saying that many men and and women alike out there receive literally no attention from anyone at all, physical or otherwise, and eventually it can start to make you feel invisible or as if no one even cares that you exist. I'm not justifying objectification, I didn't mean to imply that. I'm saying that there are people out there that have been shunned due to societal standards of attractiveness and would probably roll their eyes and beautiful women who complain that they get too much attention.
You wanna hear the real kicker? Even though I hate going out in a cute outfit and being stared at and cat called, I know I’d feel insecure if it didn’t happen. Because that’s something I’ve internalized. The absence of male harassment must mean I don’t look that great. And it sucks, because it starts to feel like you can’t win.
@@mercyinquisitor4234 what they’re saying is the conditioning to desire men’s attention and validation has damaged them. They’ve internalized being desired by man. It’s more the fault of the patriarchal society we live in than any one man and it takes years of active unlearning
I feel like a lot of girl empowerment nowadays is hyper-feminine and hyper-sexual and thats fine, but not when its the only representation. I feel like an outcast just because I dont want to wear makeup, it makes me uncomfortable but people will just label me as a "pick me" or have interlized something. I feel like i cant exist if im not pretty or feminine
I feel this way too as an ace person. Like, the last thing I want to do is attract male attention but at the same time, when I make no effort to appear feminine I'm treated like I'm invisible.
@@0piumaeternum To feel invisible? To feel like I'm not worthy of being regarded? To feel like my opinions don't deserve to be listened to? To feel as though I'm just taking up space? To feel like I'm beneath even common decencies? Yeah, of course, every girl's dream /s
Honestly, male attention does nothing for me. Random stares I just ignore, because I feel comfortable with myself. When I was younger, I really wanted male attention desperately and I felt that I didn't because of my complexion. Once I felt more confident in myself, I noticed more men looking and attracted more attention. Once I got the attention, I felt used and it did nothing good for me long-term (except taught me a plethora of lessons). Now, I only want to look good for myself
This is such a great message ❤️ I was insecure because of my skin color, and now you know what? Who cares about other people, I just want to feel good with myself. I respect you ❤️
Tbh compliments feel better to me coming from women than men and I'm not a lesbian. It's sad how the world is. I guess just do what you want to do and try not to worry about the male gaze.
Same, bc I know women aren't complimenting me to get something out of me wheras men usually only compliment women bc they're trying to shoot thier shot so its not actually a genuine compliment.
Compliments from men mean nothing, they only compliment in order to get sex, that's why men don't compliment each other, cause ThEyRe NoT Gay. But we women compliment people because we genuinely want them to feel good
I noticed that when I walk with my girlfriend some men suddenly start looking at us in a very weird way, usually she would wrap her arm around my waist when that happenned, maybe she thought that would make them understand we were a couple, but in fact, they seemed to like that even more, at first our naive self thought they just supported us and thought we were cute together, but then when we saw how one of those men looked with disgust a male couple, we understood that they didn't support us because we were lesbian, they were fetishizing us. And it is very hard for us to come out together after we found that.
ik its so bad because they approach lesbians bc they think its like a phase or something you do for validation and say disgusting things like I'll make u straight or I'll change your mind and they harrass lesbian women because they don't think they're really gay
Ever seen the French hit 'I Am Not An Easy Man', where a playboy wakes up in a world where it's normal that the male gaze is reversed...a lot of fun, should still be on Netflix.
Just saw it last month. It wasn’t perfect, but there’s certain aspects of the female experience that the movie turned on its head to point out commonplace, yet harmful(?) things that men typical aren’t able to appreciate (bc they don’t experience it the same way women do) - and I enjoyed thinking about it.
I like your honesty... I feel like most women do not admit that the male gaze can sometimes feel good. I always thought if I don't despise all male attention then I am not allowed to find certain attention uncomfortable. But that thought ist so fucked up and I just realized that it is a manifestation of an internalized male gaze. I CAN enjoy the attention of certain males and still draw a line whenever I start to get uncomfortable eg if I get harrased on the streets
I feel like the male gaze we actually crave is like when a beautiful girl in a movie enters a place and men turn their heads to look at her and seem mesmerized. But in reality men are more disrespectful, often they whistle and do that douche laugh that I genuinely hate lol. It’s more like we like our efforts for beauty to be acknowledged but the way most men do it ends up making us uncomfortable
I had a girl friend in college who told me if she got some dude creeping on her, she would just start picking her nose to turn him off. Then stare at him. She said the results were hilarious!
I start to wonder if the rise of more sexualized content is because of this. Like you said, get your coin , but it still confuses me when we automatically consider feeding into the male gaze as empowerment. It starts to feel like choice feminism nowadays because we don't have open conversations on what's liberation vs self-objectification. I believe we should have freedom in choosing how we dress, act, careers, etc, but a lot of those motivations come from the male gaze still.
Interesting point that I have thought about myself many times. I think, if women would still do things like have an OnlyFans, a private Snapchat, or strip in clubs, without being paid, and without a male audience, then perhaps it could really be for themselves and their own sexual liberation. But the fact that many women do it for the money and/or attention and wouldn’t do it otherwise tells me it’s not for themselves. They just try to disguise it as empowerment instead of calling it what it is, which is catering to a male audience by sexually objectifying themselves for validation or monetary gain. I suppose some women may see it as empowering to be able to profit from the male gaze. Or feel empowered when they are subject to the male gaze because it makes them feel desirable. But i think there’s a difference between a man seeing you as desirable and still respecting/valuing you as a fellow human being vs seeing you simply as a sex object. And 9/10 I believe it’s the latter. Because that’s what men do, they dehumanize women and instead view them as objects of pleasure. Just my thoughts. I’m interested in hearing if anyone agrees/disagrees.
@@jaylove1931 I agree I always believed having things such as an onlyfans doesn’t make us empowered or liberated. It literally makes us employees of the male gaze, because these men are paying these women’s bills and are they’re primary audience not other women.
@@jaylove1931 I think sex work like OnlyFans is empowering to women bc like you said they take advantage of the male gaze and if the male gaze and sex work exists always they may as well do it on their own terms. I hope more sex work goes in the direction of OnlyFans bc it gives women the choice of whether they want to be sexualized/degraded (some women like that, that's not anti feminist) and it's almost like reclaiming sex work for themselves as a respectable career instead of the prostitution and exploitation women have been put under for centuries.
@@jaylove1931 and whether it's sexual liberation- hopefully they are confident, doing it for themselves and not for approval but at the end of the day a job is a job
So true the male gaze does affect the way women present them, it's honestly sad though that men seem that have that much power over women. We shouldn't need to change ourselves to please men
Correct me if I’m wrong but I think it goes both ways. Like she mentioned in the video “if a good looking guy stares at you” women take it nicely but if the male looking at you is below average/social standards the state might be taken as a treat. Well, what i’m trying to say is that men also try to look nice for women to not been seen as a treat. Women also influence men in a certain way.
@@LuisLara-tl1lk it depends on the woman. But if a guy follows me it doesn't matter how attractive they are, it's creepy and scares tf out of me. as for stares, I don't really care unless it's in a creepy way. I'm still a minor so if a guy overage stared at me I'd feel uncomfortable, obviously.
what you're describing is self-objectification. I'm actually writing my dissertation on it rn. It's so fucked up and honestly I'm the same way you are I feel the exact same way. Self-objectification can actually lead to things like depression and anxiety so it's pretty damn crazy
I dress sexy “for myself” but also definitely because I see myself through the “male gaze” too. It’s interesting how I feel empowered as a woman being sexy around men but not giving them the time of day.
I know exactly what you mean. The ability to make guys fall at your feet and appearing distant and aloof can feel really empowering. It gives a sense of control, however it’s false. We have power to make ourselves appear sexier but no power to prevent ourselves from being sexualized
If you feeling power depends on a external factor, is that really empowering? or are you just feeding your insecurity (or ego)? Power is not giving a fuck what others would think about you, good or bad as long as you do you and you do not inflict damage to other people around you. read the book "The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck book by Mark Manson" you'll know what real empower looks like
as a lesbian too there's this god-complex i used to have of "i look so fucking hot and this pussy looks, tastes and FEELS so fucking good but no man will EVER enjoy me" that made me feel invincible until i realized that it manifested itself onto my relationships so i had to unlearn that. one of the joys about being gay is obviously the women i'm with but also that i have no space for men in my life (obviously male trauma still slithers in because all men have are skid marks and the audacity but yk its manageable)
Ngl I hoped you would have mentioned how the male gaze affects our wardrobe from childhood - can't wear certain things because of paedos or appearing too grown to US school policies (I heard they're ridiculous) etc But this was cool too lol
YES!! I’m still in my young teenage years and I’m heavily affected by the male gaze even when I’m alone in my room doing school on a computer. School has been my main source of looking through the male gaze
But why would you want your young child to be wearing provocative clothing? Doesn't that seem odd to you, to allow your six year old to wear clothing that a grown woman would wear? Maybe you misused the term pedophile because it seems like you're talking about highschool.
@@waldoswife.4485 I was talking about instances where pre and pubescent girls have to wear a layer under a loose vest/tank top coz people freak out of they see a girl's nipple, curve of a budding boob or bra. Or showing a certain amount of leg at any age as two examples. Plus, apart from that final year, aren't high schoolers children? I don't believe I misused the word
As I've gotten older, I've noticed that I'm now invisible to men in public. It's nice. I can just get on with my day and not have to deal with that bullshit anymore.
as a lesbian, i still do find myself adjusting to fit the male gaze more. before i identified myself as a lesbian, i identified as a bisexual person when bisexual women became a trend because men supposedly found that attractive. even my standards on women are affected by the male gaze because i find the sexualized women in media hot and attractive and have had some trouble being physically attracted to the women i loved because they don’t necessarily fit in that sexualized mold. while i am learning that my true standards are truly different from the ones mandated by the male gaze, it still is a brutal realization that women are affected by the patriarchy to such an extent.
YOU TOO?!?!?! MY GOODNESS THANK GOD IT IS NOT JUST ME this has happened to me multiple times and I am ashamed to admit it this comment helped me a lot in a way knowing it is not just me and it is not my fault that it happens like I am trying doing the same as you are and I wish I could escape the damn male gaze
honestly samee. learning about the male gaze actually helped me accept my queerness because i saw a post that was like "wanting male attention doesn't mean you're attracted to men" and then i watched Natalie's (contrapoints) video on shame elaborating on the male gaze and i realized that was my experience with my sexuality. me accepting that i was a lesbian led to me dressing up how i wanted (which was very feminine-presenting, cottagecore lesbian-esque complete with the mushroom earrings) then i liked the attention i got but i was also starting to question my gender (which just presented a myriad of problems) and i wanted to present more masculine but i couldn't because the male gaze + internalized homophobia led me to believe that i have to be the "acceptable" type of gay. that i had to be feminine-presenting, just have longing and ~yearning eye contact with women, maybe hold hands with a woman for 5 seconds and when i get drunk that's the only time i get to hook up with fellow feminine-presenting bisexual women. like how is it that men occupy so much of a lesbian's thoughts? i have to keep reminding myself that i don't have space for men in my life. i don't have space regarding thoughts about male attention. unlearning both the male gaze and internalized homophobia is so fucking tough.
Yes. I agree. The way that most men look at me is disgusting. Plus, the shit they say 🤮 I literally have days I don't feel connected to body because of it. I've literally been followed and touched by strangers on the street. Degraded by men trying to buy things or show off their money to me or give me money thinking that will flatter me or get them something in return. Plus, I've been sexually assaulted. So I constantly feel like I'm being punished for a body I didn't ask for. I love my body and I love attention for guys I find attractive. But I hate questioning if all ppl want me from me is my body.
Porn gets guys in their lower self so most guys are drained and they never get to experience normality and female beauty in its entirety. Girls should push the benefits of sr and you will see a change.
@@cinematv7370 don't expect girls to be the ones fixing everyone when the majority of these issues are caused by men who see us as objects not people and will never listen to us alone
Okay...? How is someone supposed to know if a compliment will make the other person uncomfortable? Sure, in like extreme examples of cat-calling, it should be pretty obvious, but as you move towards more conservative compliments, how is a guy supposrd to know where the line is when it will be different for each person?
@@suckmyduck7029 you can never go wrong with a "hey excuse me? I really like your outfit/ I think you're very pretty/ I love your hair(/eyes/makeup/etc) ! And if you don't even have enough social skills and human decency for that, just don't say anything at all and just smile politely idk its not that hard
@@trisglldld6634 okay and what if complimenting a girl on her dress will make her uncomfortable? or telling her she's pretty makes her feel objectified? I know this probably sounds crazy to you as a woman(or I assume you are by your name), but approaching someone who you are sexually attracted to is a daunting task, and these are the thoughts that will probably run through a reasonable guys mind several times before he approaches her. It isn't about having social skills, this will almost always be a very nerve-racking thing to do, and there will probably always be examples of guys coming off a little bit crude or creepy. And even if we are talking about a lack of social skills, how do we then teach these people how to actually approach women respectfully? I don't think just writing off the experience of a lot of guys who without malicious intention, come off maybe a little creepy/rude. As I said in my original comment, there is obviously an extreme here with things like full on sexual harassment/groping/whatever, I'm not referring to these guys, they are an entirely separate issue.
@@suckmyduck7029 1. To answer your question, if you are scared of that just go w the safe route and apologize in advance? People don't need reasoning for their own personal boundaries so just say "Oh I'm sorry if that came off as rude I just noticed you walking by and I love your jacket" or say something like mentioned in my other comment and look at their reaction, if its bad, explain your intentions. Idk how ppl cant think of that themselves I mean its pretty obvious lmao?
Everytime I want to change something about myself I ask myself "would I change it if men didn't exist?" and my answer would be no, then I dont change myself.
all humans do that, that ain't about male gaze. The most extreme of that version is called anxiety. people develop looking at yourself in 3rd perspective because how our parents mold up to be something perfect but hard to achieve to the point we start looking everything about us. That's not in about male gazing.
@@bruiseviolet1992 stfu and take a seat, literally everyone views themselves like that unconsciously. Men and women alike. Think about it, men also live with standards pushed by other men and women. We're expected to have a certain muscular body, money, height, and private part size. Also let's not for get men are told to man up so we always have to prove how masculine we are and so many women also push those narratives on men. So yeah, everyone views themselves in the 3rd perspective. You ain't special or the only one with standards, talk to a man or woman and actually listen.
@@StarDustwolf77 it's very common tho, why do you think in our era everyone cares about identity and how others view us. Everyone does it unconsciously in some shape or form.
"you are a woman with a man inside watching a woman. you are your own voyeur." -margaret atwood we've internalized the male gaze. because society is patriarchal and history was dominated by men, we can only ever see things through the patriarchy's perspective. those girls who say they dress up, shave their body hair and do makeup for themselves etc, even if they're not consciously lying, their decision is still influenced by the male gaze. without it, they wouldn't feel insecure or consider changing their appearance. if stuff like that makes you feel more confident, think about why. think about where that need to conform to beauty standards even stems from in the first place. love your videos, you always hit the nail right on the head
There's a lot to unpack with this comment. "we can only ever see things through the patriarchy's perspective." Speak for yourself. "without it, they wouldn't feel insecure or consider changing their appearance" Who says they're insecure? Citation needed for this entire statement. "their decision is still influenced by the male gaze" First, that's not up for you to decide. Just because you see things from this perspective doesn't mean all other women do. Don't project your insecurities onto others or claim they must think the same way "subconsciously." You are undermining their autonomy. Second, congratulations, you've figured out that having an identity within a society involves being perceived by other members of said society. This isn't exclusive to the "male gaze," that's just how living in civilization works. Third, so what if they're "influenced by the male gaze"? As long as you are not obsessing over it to an unhealthy degree (which, yes, some do struggle with), there is nothing wrong with caring about what half the population thinks of you. "if stuff like that makes you feel more confident, think about why." I agree people generally should consider the reasoning behind the actions, but if you're trying to imply it's bad to wear makeup just because it's the standard, I would strongly disagree. It's okay to like popular things. Criticizing people for "conforming" isn't any better than criticizing them for not doing so. We need to stop judging others on how they live their lives, and let people be themselves authentically - whether that involves caring about how others see them or not.
@@jennali9800 i'm not implying anything. you're the one who seems to deny the ever-present influence of the patriarchy. we were raised with the male gaze and it's impossible to break free of it, because we have no idea what we'd feel like or think, and who we'd be, in a different world. a world without men, a matriarchal world, or simply a non-patriarchal egalitarian world with no history of misogyny or misandry, and no concept of gender roles. you've severely misunderstood me. i'm not criticizing women, and it's ridiculous that you took it that way. i'm criticizing the patriarchy. i don't blame women for seeing things through the male gaze, because everyone does, including myself. i blame society for this, which is male-dominated, so idfk why you think i'm putting down women for conforming. you're not seeing the bigger picture here. patriarchal ideas of womanhood are very limiting so there's no way to be our "true authentic selves" without subconsciously internalizing the male perspective in some way. whether we're playing into the male gaze or actively, deliberately, consciously deviating from it, it's there in the back of our minds, affecting our actions and the way we present ourselves. femininity is a performance, and our social concept of it was invented by men, because gender roles are patriarchal concepts. that is all.
@@punkbjork No, I understand what you're saying. But as I said, this isn't exclusive to the "male gaze", this is just how society works. An alternate version of you in a matriarch world isn't a more genuine or authentic form of the real you, it's just an alternate version. Your identity can't be extradited from the environment you live in. That _is_ your true, authentic self. But more to the matter: what is your point, then? what do you suggest that women do?
@@jennali9800 nothing really, but be aware of their own cognitive processes and how their mind works. it was simply an observation i had. raising awareness can't hurt. i just think the world would be a better place if we had conversations like this, raised questions and encouraged people to think critically. you're absolutely right on that point, though, that that's just how society works. we are always shaped by our environment. but when the world doesn't favor us, and in fact harms us when we internalize patriarchal views, and base our self-worth and self-esteem on our physical appearance, it's up to us to try to break free of that mindset. and that's impossible to do if we're not even aware of it. i'm not saying it's a crime to value beauty, it's just regressive and counterproductive to prioritize it above all other virtues of deeper substance. nothing wrong with visual, sensual, or aesthetic pleasure, as long as we don't let it define our sense of identity.
As a women in her early 20’s I resonated so profoundly with what you were describing. Particularly the outer body experience of looking at yourself and playing a character of a hot, mysterious, only girl in the room, kinda girl (lol ugh I cringe a little) that you’ve seen in media, thinking that something is wrong with me for being borderline obsessed with how men see me, and not being able to escape it even through trying to be the opposite of what it wants ! Jesus Christ . Especially growing up Mexican the machismo culture is VERY gender power dynamic oriented and very ‘women stay home look beautiful have babies and give husband sex’ . It’s weird because I think I tried to get rid of it, but I realize that it’s a part of me now. Like I don’t think I can ever fully get rid of it but just try to live with it and build my knowledge of my worth outside of being a shell of a human that’s nice to look at. It’s rough out here lmaoo . Anyways, I loved your video!! and you’re so gorgeous! (And obviously way more than that lol)
I've also noticed that the Male Gaze has effected my eating disorder and body dysmorphia- they only make * certain types * of girls that are deemed worthy and if you're "too fat" or whatever is deemed unappealing and it feels like I have to spectate my body by the male gaze to determine if I "deserve" it or deserve an outfit or things like that. hell, even during sex, I feel like I have to strike a damn pose and play it up that I dont even enjoy it anymore because porn and sexual media has made me SO self conscious...
idk if you know, but men doesn't seem as aloof, carefree, or absent-minded as you might think they are. they are just as self conscious about how they look or how they act. Most men are insecure about their performance in bed, heck, they even build an entire industry to profit off that insecurity. With the current progression of the feminist movement, nowadays theres alot of men that played into those feminist (or dare i say, female gaze) idea on how a perfect man should look and act. Look at how a lot of tik tok boys dress more "feminine" or act more "sensitive" to please and attract the female viewers just because its the new "standard" for male attractiveness. Yes the 2 gaze expect different things for each sex, but at its core, they are actually pretty similar.
@L'sLeftSaggingBoob you're right I'm a very feminine boy (i think i'm non-binary actually) and I always find myself acting more feminine to attract the attention of a girl or a boy (I'm bi) However, I feel like men don't really like feminine men, and women don't like men that are too feminine... so i guess i'm stuck But anyway, now i just try to please myself and no one else lol
I think that the problem is the balance of compliments by gender and how it leads to objectfication, women are on the side that it happens so much that it becomes harassment and dehumanises them, and men are on the side that it almost never happens, when a guy says "don't act like you don't like it" to a girl complaining about it, it's 100% projection, like thinking about it i only have like 3 memories of girls complimenting me, that validation hits hard, i remeber all 3 moments vividly
iam very curious what you are refering to: men dont know what it is like to be looked at with the male gaze or.. more like men dont know what it is like to be a woman. because those are diffrent. one is kinda true [although men have to be wary of the male gaze too to avoid being "creepy"] and one is just flawed so much it is hard to understand i just want to understand a womans point of view i dont want to shame anyone
@@Strix_Nyctea men don't view themselves from a third person's perspective the way women do. by which we mean: women always imagine themselves from a third person perspective, because we want to make sure we are attractive at all times, regardless of if there even are other people around. the thought of appealing to the male gaze is so crippling that it appears even when there is no man to even speak of.
*omg you don't even knoww how annoying it has been growing up looking at myself through the male gaze. I only recently realized how big of a role it has played in my identity. It has single-handedly stopped me from figuring out my sexuality and gender identity. now that i don't care as much about getting male attention, it has given me the freedom to explore who i am. you'll catch me wearing baggy clothes most of the time and flaunting my buzzcut. I'm over watching media that only portrays heteronormativity and heterosexual couples. Also, love the not-so-subtle taylor swift reference.*
i feel like the male gaze is the "media gaze", you know? i feel like i don't dress up thinking about men but i dress up thinking about how society in general wants me to look like
A lot of interesting takes here, as a man its not something I think about too often but its always good to hear perspectives that shed light on my own problematic behavior and in turn help better myself. Good shit.
Thank u sm for being respectful and listening to our perspective and caring about how ur behaviour might be affecting us instead of trying to undermine our perspective like a lot of dudes in the comments :) we ❤️ a respectful and well informed king
“I’m a hot girl with substance” yes!!! This needs to be talked about more, I really think getting male attention has been engrained on us ever since we were kids, it’s so sad because we deserve to be admired like a painting instead. Not gonna lie, I did think dressing bummy would deflect it but I realize it’s still dictated on NOT being noticed by men. Thank you so much for making this video, it’s my first time across your channel and I’m so excited to see your content in the future.
This is so true! I grew up in a Christian household and my mother always encouraged me to embrace my figure (I'm skinny thicc lol). That I, as a young woman can be riveting and respectable. My mum looks a lot like a heavier Jill Scott! Full figured, caramel complexion with a STUNNING smile. She wears low-cut blouses on dates, her sweaters at church, and loves the Lord, she's attracted to her husband (my dad) because he's handsome AND a man of God! She made me realize more than anybody else that what people view as respectable is on an individual basis, in other words, "damned if you do, damned if you don't" So you ultimately take it up with God (or yourself, if you don't believe)
Awesome video! It really has changed my perspective on the actions I take as a guy. I don’t really try to look at women in a purely sexual way but now I can understand how the way I interact with them can be perceived differently on their end. From now on I’ll probably be more careful about the way I make women around me feel.
i actually already have a video on that topic called "letting go of the cool girl mentality" where i talk about the "not like most girls" phenomena and how it's portrayed in media :) (i just didn't use the phrase "pick me" but they're kind of in the same category lol)
@tired andsad no one has a problem w the tomboy girls or the girls who like typical “guy” things. It’s only a problem when a girl puts another girl down for the sake of male attention. I’d like to disagree w you and say that there is something wrong w doing things for the sole purpose of getting a male’s attention. Because in doing so, the girl/woman, puts herself last n begins to cater for the man.
@tired andsad I don't necessarily have a "problem" per say when I see other girls change themselves or go out of their way for a male. I just find it cringe. And let me clarify in what instances I would think their behavior would be considered cringe to me. For example, when a girl says she likes sports and cars ( two things people usually identify as "male' interests) when she really doesn't just so she can seem "cool" or "not like the other girls" to them. Or when a girl says " I don't wear make up. I like to be natural" . Which, inherently, that statement isn't wrong but is, if immediately followed by another statement from a girl stating how much she loves to wear makeup. The first girl's statement about being "natural" would be cringe to me because it seems as if she is trying to disregard the second girl's interest or trying to say why she'd be a better pick for the male. And I totally agree with you on how in order to have a healthy relationship, both partners must do things things for one another at times. But, that isn't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the pickme's and Nlog girls who put other girls down just for the sake of a male's attention. To quote you real quick," `If anything, judging from what im seeing lately it appears that women are the primary ones trying to shame other women for getting males attention.' " It's not necessarily shame I believe, but more of thinking " oh no baby don't do that to yourself " whenever we see another woman lower themselves(or another woman) for the sake of a male's attention. Another rebuttal I have to that statement is, why would a male have a problem with women paying attention to him? Lol So, of course you'd notice more women being the ones to critique other women's behavior when it comes to those sorts of things. In conclusion, women paying attention to men ------> not inherently bad women doing things for their man(or non male partner)------> not inherently wrong women putting other women down for the sake of male attention ------> bad women changing/ lying about their interests for the sake of male attention --------> questionable
Most of the time I look a mess and don’t care, but when I do look good I love the male gaze, something is so empowering about knowing they are looking at me and yet would never even have a chance with me :) UPDATE 2 YEARS LATER: it doesn’t matter if they have no chance with you, they will always assume they do, unfortunately you can’t defeat the male gaze by trying to change it, it stays the same. It doesn’t matter what you wear, I had more men looking at me in my school uniform than I do now that I’m a legal adult.
@@tamethismain6630 I mean it's literally one of our basic needs. Everyone loves attention, just not all the same way or the same amount. Doing something for attention isn't something to be ashamed of nor should anyone shame you for it.
I love love loved this video, however, "pick me girls" don't always subscribe to femininity are necessarily "pick me" girls. It felt kinda hostile when you implied all hoodie-wearing, non-feminine women are "pick me" girls;;;; PM girls can present themselves in any shape or form. I think a better way of phrasing what you said towards the end about women who present themselves more masculinely (i.e. tomboy) is that a lot of those women do so to subvert the male gaze. They may feel jaded with femininity and the baggage that comes with it - the male gaze - and by dressing in the opposite, hope to no longer be under its control. However, in that process alone, women are still making decisions based on the male gaze.
@@Strix_Nyctea "pick me" is like the saying "I'm not like other girls"- where one tries to prove (to men/boys, but can also be expressed to society generally) they're different from the rest of the girls due to not doing what is considered "feminine". And might put other girls down to get attention from guys. @Grace A She mentioned first "tomboys" or not so "feminine" girls then she said pick me girls as another example.
Idk where yall getting these terms then labeling and generalizing girls who where 'neutral'/ 'tomboyish'/ less girly clothes as 'pick me'. Some may do it too hide but others,like me, simply do it cuz it feels more comfortable.
I'm a man and have been trying super hard to change my habit of staring at others. Its not that I stare only at women but at people in general. I also think that random strangers staring is very creepy. I have a sister and a mother, and feel scared for their safety.
@@punchn9001 girl- where was she crying about it? she said she was tired of it.... meaning she doesn’t care about men’s approval anymore. can y’all use your brains for once?
Okay 1. You're gorgeous but, you already knew that. 2.I love how honest you are about this stuff, a lot of women really do adjust how they act for the men around them. 3. Fuck the patriarchy!!!
@@nordinator89 well, we shouldn’t have to move out of our homes because men make us feel this way. you know that this isn’t even logical, right? and i can tell you that many people would be disappointed. the reason that we’d move would be because men are like this, and you say “do it” but at the same time, a lot of people would be sad.
It is your own will 🤦♂️ it’s literally natural to want to attract the opposite sex, we are animals, we do just as majority of other species on Earth does.
i viewed the male gaze as something positive growing up because it meant that i would be wanted and i wanted that so badly. i never got it. that really affected me and how i viewed myself. i thought i was unattractive for years because i wasn’t looked at by men or cat called even. now looking back at that it makes me feel terrible. i’ve grown past that but sometimes i still try to seek male validation.
Loads of men want to be noticed by women growing up. You have to try hard to look good to women. Some men never learn what women like. Its a normal feeling for both sexes.
Heyyy girl❤ you were recommended to me (even though I'm from Greece-quite literally the other side of the planet-) and I LOVE your content!! You're so authentic it's refreshing!! You SOO deserve it to surpass 1K❣ I'm sending you my good Mediterranean vibes💙🌿🦋
I spoke about this the other day, if you look at rap culture all the women get things done to their body. If you think of Cardi vs her sister, from the same background - cardi has done a lot to her body whereas Hennessy has no interest in male attention I assume as she’s with a woman and looks much more “natural”
As a non binary lesbian who’s been repeatedly hit on and barraged with very unwanted attempts to “convert” me by who men who already knew I’m gay, I feel your pain. Just being AFAB seems to be enough to attract loads of unwanted attention, and I can’t even imagine how bad it must be for women who are far more feminine presenting than I am. You’re gorgeous and valid and you shouldn’t have to suffer disrespect or so much discomfort or poor self esteem simply because our culture is so fucked up.
Ok ladies, sometimes if you can’t beat em -and you’re feeling brave; join em. Stare down right through the eyes, into their very soul and watch the fear form in front of you and stand back, and bask in your own power xxx
I do that many times with my male classmates But it ends up with me asking how long did they sleep and they reply sometimes that they haven't slept or I point out how they look like as if they've been pushed down the stairs or something.
@imran the intergalactic beggar It's not meant to insult but rather point out how stressed they look. But hey, I guess its 'mY mOm' who I should ask when I'm talking about my classmates and not you.
@imran the intergalactic beggar Well, being in a classroom environment with 39 other people that sleep at either 12 or 1 am, it is common to notice very stressed people. I didn't mean that I cause the stress by staring. I was more of detailing that unlike what the og comment suggests will happen, it's instead a normal human interaction. Summary: I was poking fun at the og comment for it's unrealistic solution for 'the male gaze' because staring really either gets weird or you're just gonna notice little stuff like someone looking tired af.
@@z_.5557 Yeah sometimes people like this hype themselves too much. Whenever I read about folks doing bizarre things to feel powerful I just feel bad- its like they probably lack actual power and need a win. Because ive never heard of anyone responding to someone staring like that unless there are mental issues.
Thank you so much for this video. I never felt insecure about my body up until I got into my first relationship (at that point I was no longer a teenager). I think I got insecure after getting together with him because suddenly I saw myself through the male gaze and I'm not someone who fits the "gorgeous sexy hot woman trope" 😅
This! I saw myself as an acceptable human being until I was in a relationship. Then I began wondering if I was worthy of said relationship because of what I thought is seen as desirable to a man. I stopped caring about being human and started caring about "being a proper woman".
Yessss I consider myself hot asf but as soon as I got into my first ever relationship I felt undesirable in terms of boobs because I thought, there are so many women out there plastered all over the internet who have more and I thought what I had was not enough for my boyfriend so surely he’ll choose to browse for other girls and fantasize about them
The issue with the male gaze isn’t the basic part: men might look at a women they find appealing, that is not the issue. The issue is the staring. And the culture behind it. If a man looks at you quickly and finds you attractive but looks back away. This is fine and shouldn’t really hurt you. But if they creepily stare for a few minutes. You should feel uncomfortable. The male gaze’s main issue is what I said before, it has cultural push behind it in other circumstances that can be harmful like catcalling (not okay) and calling people derogatory terms. To end off, most men aren’t pigs (but I’m sure that was obvious) but many many people really do think women are just for sex (which is absolutely disgusting) and you should keep that in mind. But, y’a know. Be fair to people, I like to assume the best of people.
@@fizzybizzy3790 perhaps it isnt the same for other men, but I have a bad habit of staring at people regardless of gender especially on bus rides. And the majority of the time, I'm unaware of my actions and that I could be making others uncomfortable
I check myself out any chance I get (i could look like a total bum), some may say it's narcissistic but I just love myself lol. I guess it comes with age 🤷 .
I check myself out too!!! Face wise cuz I’m still insecure about my body and acne. But if acne hadn’t taken a shit on my face id be checking myself more than I already do 😂😂
@@cuzumakemyearfquake I feel you with the acne. I had it from beginning of puberty up until I basically got to college. But hey these are just challenges to strengthen your love for yourself. If you can really appreciate yourself in any state, as long as you're trying there won't be anything not perfect about yourself.
THATS WHAT I AM SAYING. In another comment some guy was trying to say that women only dress up or look good for men. I havent left the house in 3 months and i still do the most just to look at myself and go damnnnn😂 there is no men seeing me yet I still dress up, do my hair, wear some make up and wear perfum.
It’s sad that you really can’t escape it. I remember sitting on the buss on my way to school once, when this literal middle aged man that sat infront of me, flipped out his phone and started FILMING me, not being subtle about it what so ever. I was 12. Of course I retaliated with filming him back, being just as obvious, and he stopped as soon as he saw what I was doing, and left at the next stop. That experience made me very uncomfortable and aware of the fact that some men don’t see you as a living, breathing person, because there is no doubt in my mind what he was going to do when he got home with that video.
this reminds me of when i was TEN and in my bus on my way home and these two guys in a truck next to us took out their phones and clicked pics of me,, we aren't allowed phones at school and i didn't own one till i was 16 anyways. a couple of people around me noticed and one of them held a notebook up to my face to stop them from taking pics,, some of the older kids argued w the truck dudes to delete my pics, they didn't and sped off instead. and yeah, just like you it made me very uncomfortable and disturbed, i didn't feel comfortable w having my pics taken by people CLOSE to me for 2-3 years after
I actually think they want us to not play into it because I feel like they like the idea of it more when we don’t want it. Like they get a kick out of harassment.
@@spookyspaghett1 except men who harass women literally hate rejection, so the idea that men get a kick out of women not liking them combined with the fragility of their egos doesnt make much sense
They need female attention. Positive or negative. That's why I don't give them time of the day, but as she said above, they get a kick out of tour discomfort so you have to be a pro at grey rocking
@@kidawesomeness123 not really, the point that's being made here is that this type of men don't find the idea of harassing someone who "consents" as appealing. and when i say "someone who consents", it means someone who plays into the male gaze. if you directly ask that type of men to sexualize you, you will receive a negative reaction, but they have no problem doing it when it's unwanted or unasked for.
I don't think you should blame yourself because you sometimes get validation from the male gaze, but I do think we should as a society try to change that. I think women have been taught that our value lies in the eyes of men, in the spectacle we can present them and how they will judge it. It's not our fault, most media is made by men. I think this quote from Margaret Atwood on internalized male gaze sums it up about pick-me girls and feeling the male gaze even when you're alone: “Male fantasies, male fantasies, is everything run by male fantasies? Up on a pedestal or down on your knees, it's all a male fantasy: that you're strong enough to take what they dish out, or else too weak to do anything about it. Even pretending you aren't catering to male fantasies is a male fantasy: pretending you're unseen, pretending you have a life of your own, that you can wash your feet and comb your hair unconscious of the ever-present watcher peering through the keyhole, peering through the keyhole in your own head, if nowhere else. You are a woman with a man inside watching a woman. You are your own voyeur.” So I think there's a balance, I don't know if our desires to be beautiful are natural or come from the male gaze, many women in prison try so hard to get make-up even if there are no men to look at them (although it might just be internalized male-gaze). It's a tough topic, especially since many women have occasionally used the male gaze to feel empowered (i have), but I think we do need to acknowledge it and try to find out where the middle point is. A good start would be changing media (have more media for girls made by women themselves), so the next generation of women can grow freer to be who they really are.
I’m tired of this society we live in. I feel like this is something we will never escape. I’m tired of the comparisons, sexualization, objectification, and being seen as sexual objects rather than as human beings. I can’t wait to exist in another form someday.
YES! oftentimes when i’m dressing up just for myself, just to make myself feel pretty, i can’t help but think about how my definition of pretty isn’t actually my definition of pretty, it’s just what the male gaze told me was pretty. and furthermore, isn’t it an extension of the male gaze to need to feel pretty in order to feel good just in general? i get to the point where i’m not sure where my thoughts and opinions end and the male gaze begins
Honestly when I was femme I did get a lot of attention and then I started to transition and was playing up masculinity. I realized that while I was more protected by being masculine that didn't mean that they ever went away they just turned from straight cisgendered men to cisgendered gay men. I realized I just liked dressing feminine and that I'm still trans and I decided that it's not them who has the ability to dictate me. It's me. I would say everyone stares because femininity is magnetizing. But they don't treat you like they know or respect that power. Some people don't respect it, they just want femininity to be there for them. Which you have a choice to play and if they ever make you, it says more about the broken place they come from than where you come from. There is so much good in femininity and there is so much good in healthy masculinity. We just don't talk about healthy masculinity.
i totally get that thing about feeling dehumanized when cat called. it’s such a gross feeling probably cuz we can feel their creepy energy being directed at us. btw ur hilarious and this was a very informative and entertaining video
@@janella9215 literally ! i identify as a lesbian and i cannot count how many guys have told me “that’s hot” or trying to tell me i “just haven’t met the right guy yet” referring to themselves like NO IM GAY PLEASE LEAVE
Just adding my 2 cents. As a person with breast cancer please know that many women who have breast implants do so because they had to get their breast(s) removed. It’s incredibly traumatic when someone surgery shames a woman who got reconstruction surgery bc believe me, it was not their first choice. (Not saying you were surgery shaming, just trying to give an example) ❤️
It’s really awesome to see this being talked about. I’m a lesbian woman, in a relationship with a lesbian woman, and still the male gaze haunts me. It bothers me like sick that I know fully well that my appearance isn’t relevant, especially in the eyes of men, and yet it’s still something ive internalized SO much. It hurts and feels hopeless sometimes.
I didn't use the words hot, woman/women, lady/ladies for years. Why? Hot is associated with sex and attractiveness. I didn't want guys I was talking to associate me with that word. Woman/lady, I guess was because I was a child at the time and didn't want to be known as a woman or lady. The reason I avoided them in the first place? And this is the worst part, my grandpa was real creepy and I wanted to avoid him being, well, creepy. I was around 6-7 at the time and this was on my mind everytime we went to visit my grandad. Fuck, this was long. Thanks for coming to my TEDTalk
Nice video but 11:38 is not accurate, wearing a hoodie or loose clothing doesn't make one a 'pick me girl' I feel like both men & women try to look attractive/sexy in the presence of the opposite gender. Like its natural to want to look good to women/men cos of biology & reproduction. Its only bad when its the only thing u think about & it controls all ur choices
There's a great quote by John Berger about the male gaze (though it isn't worded as such). He says that men are seen as the ones that do, the actors. Women are the spectacle, the object of beauty, the illusion, the ones that get seen. How we are seen by men defines how they act towards us, so in order to get control over how men treat us and how we can move forward in society, we are forced to internalize the male gaze. We do this to get any control in a system (patriarchy) where we are the passive party by definition and have no power. So yes, it makes total sense that we are trying to win in this system that is rigged against us. It makes sense that we are feeling good when we look hot and get attention. It means that we are getting power. This doesn't mean that it's a healthy thing to do. It helps to perpetuate this toxic system. But we can't individually be blamed for that, we are just trying to move forward in the only way that we were taught how to. That's why I can't hate on the instagram models that are getting rich by being pretty. It's a matter of "don't hate the player, hate the game".
I don't mean to be rude but I don't get how you can be nonbinary and a trans man. Being trans means you are shifting into one binary to another (woman to man). If you were nonbinary wouldn't you just be that? No matter what your sex assigned at birth you would just not subscribe to any gender? Mind explaining please?
@@wevs7239 gladly! Thank you for asking! I say “nonbinary trans man” as to signify, in my understanding of it, it’s a way of saying that I use they/them/he/him and was born AFAB.
I love your honesty and that youre talking about this topic. I have felt this since I was in middle school and its definitely been impactful on my mental health over the years. Im 21 now and just realizing in therapy how much my self esteem was influenced by the male gaze :(
i thought to myself once, why do people dress up?? not only women but men too... why do we try to look so visually appealing when we leave our houses??... i quickly realised that everytime someone says "i do it for myself" they were only telling a half truth beacause if everyone on the planet except us was blind we would stop trying to look good, this lead me to think that we change our appearence to be better accepted by society... so when someone says "i do it for myself" i think, yes but you only feel confident in your outfit or make up beacuse you think it makes you seem attractive in a society (not even sexually just approachable). Basically you indirectly dress up so that other people have the pleasure of looking at you and as a result your confidence is raised because people found you attractive in some sense. Think about it, it's weird
It is 100% weird from a logical perspective, but I feel like humans as a social species, wanting to fit into a society to demonstrate their worthiness of / potential for accumulation of resources makes a lot of sense. A caveman saying "I dress up for me" is telling the whole truth: they're probably dressing partially to fend off the elements and partially to look acceptable to the rest of their social group. Wearing the skin of something you killed shows you can get food, so people might be more willing to hang out with you and trade the cool stuff they got for the stuff you killed. it's an interesting point
@@mallosteric for me I think its connected to the base of nature itself. If you look around there are plenty species in this world that have some uniqueness to appeal to other sex. Like how somE male birds have coloful feather to Appeal their female. And usually those female has less of a appealing appearance. There are something in this nature, a feeling of need from the other sex. Of course it is because of all the species need to reproduce and other things. But why species need to appeal other sex to do things like reproduce. Generally why we need to look appealing to do or get something, EVEN PLANT HAS FLOWER to attract bugs. Its just so weird to think about. Its the base of our society how needed to look appealing/attractive to other counterparts creates some boundaries of how things should be. A woman need to looks appealing/attractive to men and vice versa. Of course we can just be ourselves and dress as we want. But then it goes to your statement. There just something why the world works like this.
@@dawae2162 yep, it's everywhere! And the cool thing is, culture is always moving and making new things attractive, like you were saying with the "wear whatever we want". And what's even cooler is that humans don't have to be bound by that expectation of physical attraction to be successful. The biological purpose of life is to create more life, but we sure have a lot of people on the planet these days, some might even say overpopulation. So I like to think of it like this: for someone to grow a baby, they have to eat 300 extra Calories a day in their third trimester. That adds up to around 27,000 Calories per baby. An animal that has more babies has a better chance of furthering its species, since one more baby means one more adult animal that has the potential to survive long enough to mate and create more of that animal. A human could probably have a maximum of 10 babies in prehistoric times, which is equivalent to 270,000 Calories. For the modern day, there are factors like overpopulation and cultural expectations that lead to there being ways to be biologically fulfilled without having 10 kids. If we use that 270,000 Calorie number, I think that means if a person puts 270,000 Calories of effort towards furthering humanity, then they are biologically fulfilled. I think for a lot of animals and plants, reproduction is the main way for them to keep existing, but for humans and the animals we domesticate, it seems like we don't have to worry as much about dressing up just to be attractive for reproduction. It's more about showing the whole group we have the capacity to use that 270,000 Calories of effort to help each other out.
I really like your perspectives I feel especially because I am a also a black woman I can relate and usually when ig I speak about the “positives” in these situations I often feel ashamed or misunderstood
yesss that’s exactly why i do what i do on my channel. black woman have a unique perspective and we’re often times misunderstood or judged for simply having an opinion. tryna represent us and show that we shouldn’t be afraid to be outspoken free thinkers.
As a teenage girl, I can admit that I have tried hard to cater to the male gaze to the point that I measure my self worth of how appealing I am to guys. It ended up making me super insecure when I was alone and/or when guys would treat me wrong whilst my female classmates had guys dropping to their knees just to try and go out with them. I ended up just hating myself and it eventually led to some trauma. It sucks but I learned from my mistakes :)
YESS EXACTLY THE THING ABOUT SEEING YOURSELF IN THIRD PERSON BECAUSE YOU KNOW SOMEONE IS WATCHING i just can't get out of my own head when that happens and i get so clumsy and try to act cool and nonchalant but the more i try the more clumsy i get im tired
@@user-ob5il7cy8o I have a question, you made a comment about how you wished you lived in a society were you did not need men's validation, if you don't mind, what are a Few things you felt like you had to do because of men or the "male gaze"?
Pro Tip: to avoid the male gaze, in my experience: act "manly". I tend to spread my legs, look neutral/unimpressed/agressive, stare at the man (this one only If I have a very confident day^^), spit on the floor, etc. This makes you less interesting for most of those folks.
Isn’t that also an issue cause honestly that was me too. Being masculine and resulting to masculine traits was a safe haven for me. So like for me it’s also problematic not fully stepping into ones feminine nature to avoid male gaze. It’s gonna happen either way
Loved that you used some Harley examples because Harley Quinn as a character is the perfect example of the male gaze/ female gaze. Suicide Squad and Birds of Prey are honestly 2 great examples of these gazes.
I'm a guy and I'm straight and to me , women are amazing and not as object, but as a being. They can be sexy, but also confident and strong, they can be slutty, but also amazingly elegant and all of them as long as they show respect as men should, and try to improve and not harm themselves, they all are welcome equally. And admiration isn't simping as long as the guy doesn't degrade himself either and force himself.
Thank you for this. I have been trying to tell other women that there a lot of good non-creepy guys out there, and that this stereotype and generalization needs to get broken. I'm glad your speaking up about it.
I dont think there's anything unnatural about looking at yourself through the lense of who you want to attract, most men try to appeal to women at any given time too, we're wired to look for love so we want to be attractive, so we follow whatever beauty standard is presented in our culture, woman or man we care what who were attracted to thinks of us
Thats facts and these people are just paranoid. Attraction is something natural. The more attractive you present yourself (make up, dressing, hair style, gestures) the more you will attract. It aint that hard to understand. Its stupid to assume that you're gonna dress cute and sexy and nobody will find you attractive and look. Especially when you consider that most people , women and men, intentionally try to dress well when they go out to have a good impression on the public.
i just really love how eloquently this is put, these thoughts and feelings i have had but never would want to admit and even if i did, i couldn't have worded it this way. so many comments are perfectly saying things i've felt and it's so deeply validating and i'm just so grateful this exists.
I think the reason so many men believe we dress up and do make up for them is because so man men do thing to try to impress other men, (strongest, wealthiest, who can get with the hottest girl). They have that "if I like it then it must be for me" kind of mentality
So one time I saw a comment or something saying "how are we supposed to compliment women then?" Give us a compliment on something WE control. Dont compliment our bodies and objectify us, compliment our shoes, our earrings, our shirt, and do it in a nice respectful way. The one thing that I really like is when a man compliments something unique thata I control and something that I chose to have like shoelaces or a really cool mask or something.
Yes! A compliment would be, "You look very beautiful." or "Your dress is really pretty." But if someone is like, saying that your boobs are hot or something that's creepy and that's harrassment.
but everyone has control of their bodies? why is it wrong to compliment someone for having discipline in keeping an in shape body or a clean attractive appearance? If a guy is coming over to talk with a girl I can guarantee you its not because he liked her shoes or her shirt. We don't care about those things...
I like being powerful making anybody look at me means that I have at least a tiny bit of power over their life, because I made them look at me (if that makes sense) I often want ppl to look at me to show off my outfit and to show how good I can compine pieces of clothing But I also see myself through that male gaze I hate it bc I get so uncomfortable when I notice sb checking me out or even starting to talk to me (Even if they are just 2/3 years older) Last time a guy talked to me and we talked for like 15 minutes (we were both waiting for our train) and he treated me so normal. Like he didn't call me pretty or anything, I didn't catch him looking at my body and it made me feel so damn good I might feel pretty after sb stares at me, but honestly I would prefer them talking to me and being fascinated by how I talk, by my ideas, my thoughts, my humor or anything that comes from my mind
I'm a practising Muslim woman and I find this conversation really interesting. I've personally found that covering my hair has been a really powerful way to almost completely break that internalised male gaze. I'm so much more content as a result. This is definitely not spoken about enough because I think that there is a lot of unfair disdain from western feminists towards women that dress modestly. As a result Muslim women are often left out of this conversation as if we have nothing of value to say or offer. It takes covering your hair to discover how major a part of your femininity and attractiveness your hair is. Because when my hair is covered, I automatically no longer feel the male gaze on me. It's like a spell has been broken. Covering my hair immediately signals to my brain that I'm out of the beauty rat race. I no longer meet the criteria of the male gaze, so the man in my head...walks away. You'd think that this would make me feel ugly. That covering my hair would make me feel less beautiful. But actually through wearing a headscarf I think I've finally managed to divorce the idea that my beauty is connected to whether or not men find me attractive. I used to feel ugly wearing it when I was younger, but actually that was my own personal insecurity that I had to work on. Now that I no longer have that insecurity, I've realised that feeling ugly is a completely separate thing from not appealing to the male gaze. That's the crucial thing. A lot of people here in the comments are talking about how being viewed with the male gaze makes them feel good. Many people are conflating their appeal to the male gaze with their own validation of their beauty. I don't think there's a way in which you can exist as a woman without also appealing to the gaze of straight men. This is fine, but know that that appeal to the gaze will constantly make you see yourself through it. When you actively reject the male gaze externally, you begin to realise that your beauty was never dependent on it in the first place.
I have a question, so in your oppion what causes the male gaze in the first place? You were talking about how covering your hair breaks it and that's great, but do you know how to destroy the male gaze altogether?
@@dickersoncharlie4961 Thank you so much for your response, apologies for taking so long to get back to you. I've been trying to figure out a way to put years and years of my ideas and thoughts about this into a statement concise enough to work into a youtube comment. The best way I can put it is this. "As a straight woman, you can’t remove or exist outside the male gaze. You either make it so that you can’t be viewed or tell men to stop looking. You can’t really do the latter without a wide scale culture and value change, so do the former." If you would like to discuss this further and in nuance that's more suited for a conversation please reach out to me, it's a fascinating subject. :)
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There's a difference between seeing someone as a beautiful/pretty/hot woman, and seeing someone as a sexual object
You’re absolutely right. As a guy, one of the first if not the first thing I notice when I see a women is how attractive she is. I can’t help it, it’s just how it is. But seeing her as a sexual object is another thing completely and can be avoided if you have a healthy mindset and see her as a person
The difference is 100% respect
But there's no way of telling, unless it verbally or physically communicated.
@@owengonzales53 Weeding out guys like you is a chore lol. 😂
@@camillefaith2005 ??
I don’t mind compliments from men that are phrased very respectfully but when they cat-call, leer, and follow me that’s when I get uncomfortable.
agreed!!
yeah a man says he loves my favorite blazer? im all for it. but “you’re so beautiful, are you married?” fool gtfo
Don't forget the ones when they think you owe them something just because they gave you a compliment.
Ran into a few of those before 🙄
I totally agree, if I know the man I will also definitely be happy about the compliment... But I bet you've also experienced before that somebody compliments you or simply says hello, and if you react to that in any way like a smile, small nod or even quick eye contact, they start acting creepy and following you etc. :( It's sad, especially with a simple greeting, but I sure have cursed myself before after having been too friendly, thus too inviting to random a man before
Fr I get nervous just walking past a group of guys and have had incidents where I’ve even been followed including late at night so it’s actually kinda scary
In a nutshell: Being admired or even lusted after can feel pretty damn good, as long as you're not dehumanized in the process
I agree. If the person who is looking at you in a sexual way still respect's you as a person it can feel good. Otherwise not so much.
Yeeeeessss
@@aleaf1494 I thought looking at woman in a sexuel way was the dehumanizing part? Can you help me understand cause honestly I'm having trouble understanding what's being respectable if your looking at a woman in a sexual way and what's dehumanizing.
@@Chosen_8 you just be a 666 man at the very least. 6 figures,6 feet and 6 inches
and if it's coming from someone you find attractive or at the very least aren't disgusted by lol
I've been catcalled by creepy men even in huge hoodies and athletic clothes, it's not about dressing explictly, it's about how power deprived these men feel.
Not everything is about power and freedom.
It's easy to think this because of so many men being hostile and aggressive, but really most men have grown up with barely half of the attention and affection most women receive on a daily basis. They're starved for it. They crave it in such a strong way that yes, even a single look or compliment can cause a guy to obsess over a girl to an unhealthy degree. It's sad and I wish more women could see how just how desperate for love most men are.
@@MossMan4288 what kind of attention do u think women receive daily?? Objectification?? Attention we dont actually want?? Idk why anyone would crave that, but ok
@@MossMan4288 why is it that us women should see how attention starved men are when we're the ones paying the most for the way boys are socialized into sociopathic men?
This feels like a conversation men need to have amongst themselves if they want a richer emotional life
@@Julie-ox1ez most women are acknowledged and given compliments all the time. Despite who they come from. Some people out there are literally never given any kind of positive affirmation at all in any form. I'm not saying that any woman would crave negative attention. I'm saying that many men and and women alike out there receive literally no attention from anyone at all, physical or otherwise, and eventually it can start to make you feel invisible or as if no one even cares that you exist. I'm not justifying objectification, I didn't mean to imply that. I'm saying that there are people out there that have been shunned due to societal standards of attractiveness and would probably roll their eyes and beautiful women who complain that they get too much attention.
You wanna hear the real kicker? Even though I hate going out in a cute outfit and being stared at and cat called, I know I’d feel insecure if it didn’t happen. Because that’s something I’ve internalized. The absence of male harassment must mean I don’t look that great. And it sucks, because it starts to feel like you can’t win.
SAME. I’ve been feeling so ugly because since I cut my hair, guys haven’t been telling me I’m so cute etc.. it made me hate my short hair. Ahh...
THIS.
So basically no matter how you feel about yourself, it's a mans fault?
@@mercyinquisitor4234 what they’re saying is the conditioning to desire men’s attention and validation has damaged them. They’ve internalized being desired by man. It’s more the fault of the patriarchal society we live in than any one man and it takes years of active unlearning
@@vintageincolor don't bother girl
I feel like a lot of girl empowerment nowadays is hyper-feminine and hyper-sexual and thats fine, but not when its the only representation. I feel like an outcast just because I dont want to wear makeup, it makes me uncomfortable but people will just label me as a "pick me" or have interlized something. I feel like i cant exist if im not pretty or feminine
I feel this way too as an ace person. Like, the last thing I want to do is attract male attention but at the same time, when I make no effort to appear feminine I'm treated like I'm invisible.
@@carolinea6769 well that's what you wanted right?
@@0piumaeternum To feel invisible? To feel like I'm not worthy of being regarded? To feel like my opinions don't deserve to be listened to? To feel as though I'm just taking up space? To feel like I'm beneath even common decencies? Yeah, of course, every girl's dream /s
@@carolinea6769 but you just said you didn't want male attention so when you don't get it, you feel those things...that's what comes with it💀
@@0piumaeternum they are literally talking about being accepted as person, not about the male gaze. get out of here.
Honestly, male attention does nothing for me. Random stares I just ignore, because I feel comfortable with myself. When I was younger, I really wanted male attention desperately and I felt that I didn't because of my complexion. Once I felt more confident in myself, I noticed more men looking and attracted more attention. Once I got the attention, I felt used and it did nothing good for me long-term (except taught me a plethora of lessons). Now, I only want to look good for myself
When I lost my baby fat and "glowed up" I realized how worthless and often toxic male attention actually can be.
yes!
This is such a great message ❤️ I was insecure because of my skin color, and now you know what? Who cares about other people, I just want to feel good with myself. I respect you ❤️
FELT THIS MESSAGE!!
@Jayden Dan Dominquez If you really think this way then you still didn't comprehend what the male gaze is
Tbh compliments feel better to me coming from women than men and I'm not a lesbian. It's sad how the world is. I guess just do what you want to do and try not to worry about the male gaze.
SAME!!
Same, bc I know women aren't complimenting me to get something out of me wheras men usually only compliment women bc they're trying to shoot thier shot so its not actually a genuine compliment.
Compliments from men mean nothing, they only compliment in order to get sex, that's why men don't compliment each other, cause ThEyRe NoT Gay. But we women compliment people because we genuinely want them to feel good
@@boredshrimp9425 that's the truth. That's why women need to support each other more.
@@dangitbobby.3942 Exactly. Sometimes it's just creepy when some guys do it lol.
I noticed that when I walk with my girlfriend some men suddenly start looking at us in a very weird way, usually she would wrap her arm around my waist when that happenned, maybe she thought that would make them understand we were a couple, but in fact, they seemed to like that even more, at first our naive self thought they just supported us and thought we were cute together, but then when we saw how one of those men looked with disgust a male couple, we understood that they didn't support us because we were lesbian, they were fetishizing us. And it is very hard for us to come out together after we found that.
ik its so bad because they approach lesbians bc they think its like a phase or something you do for validation and say disgusting things like I'll make u straight or I'll change your mind and they harrass lesbian women because they don't think they're really gay
Ever seen the French hit 'I Am Not An Easy Man', where a playboy wakes up in a world where it's normal that the male gaze is reversed...a lot of fun, should still be on Netflix.
Thx for the recommendation- I started watching it and it’s awesome
@@Busyfigureskating no worries, hi from Brisbane, Australia:-)
Just saw it last month.
It wasn’t perfect, but there’s certain aspects of the female experience that the movie turned on its head to point out commonplace, yet harmful(?) things that men typical aren’t able to appreciate (bc they don’t experience it the same way women do) - and I enjoyed thinking about it.
@@asecretchannel4135 that's interesting - like what?
paused this video just to go watch it, and great movie
i hate even thinking about this topic, it makes me feel sick
same
But it’s also important to point this stuff out so we can unlearn this type of stuff
This world is so trash
@@purpleplanet888 no, the world isnt, humans are.
me too 🤮
When men stare at me, I just stare right back and make them uncomfortable.
When I do that they approach me 🧍🏽♀️
@@certifiedlovergirl6759 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I make sure I put my creepy face on when this happens. Works everytime
@@certifiedlovergirl6759 🤣 I feel hella bad for u lmao
@@peachyhello same lol
I like your honesty... I feel like most women do not admit that the male gaze can sometimes feel good. I always thought if I don't despise all male attention then I am not allowed to find certain attention uncomfortable. But that thought ist so fucked up and I just realized that it is a manifestation of an internalized male gaze. I CAN enjoy the attention of certain males and still draw a line whenever I start to get uncomfortable eg if I get harrased on the streets
I agree
exactly, there's definitely a line but I can still feel ok to enjoy the ones where I do
fr theres a difference between compliments and harrasments
yeah, male validation
I feel like the male gaze we actually crave is like when a beautiful girl in a movie enters a place and men turn their heads to look at her and seem mesmerized. But in reality men are more disrespectful, often they whistle and do that douche laugh that I genuinely hate lol. It’s more like we like our efforts for beauty to be acknowledged but the way most men do it ends up making us uncomfortable
I had a girl friend in college who told me if she got some dude creeping on her, she would just start picking her nose to turn him off. Then stare at him. She said the results were hilarious!
Lol
perfect
Hahaha do you know if he left her alone after that? I need to remember that strategy in that case lol.
Lmaoooo
Now we got masks tho
I start to wonder if the rise of more sexualized content is because of this. Like you said, get your coin , but it still confuses me when we automatically consider feeding into the male gaze as empowerment. It starts to feel like choice feminism nowadays because we don't have open conversations on what's liberation vs self-objectification. I believe we should have freedom in choosing how we dress, act, careers, etc, but a lot of those motivations come from the male gaze still.
we live in a patriarchy therefore everything everyone does will be influenced by the male gaze
Interesting point that I have thought about myself many times. I think, if women would still do things like have an OnlyFans, a private Snapchat, or strip in clubs, without being paid, and without a male audience, then perhaps it could really be for themselves and their own sexual liberation. But the fact that many women do it for the money and/or attention and wouldn’t do it otherwise tells me it’s not for themselves. They just try to disguise it as empowerment instead of calling it what it is, which is catering to a male audience by sexually objectifying themselves for validation or monetary gain.
I suppose some women may see it as empowering to be able to profit from the male gaze. Or feel empowered when they are subject to the male gaze because it makes them feel desirable. But i think there’s a difference between a man seeing you as desirable and still respecting/valuing you as a fellow human being vs seeing you simply as a sex object. And 9/10 I believe it’s the latter. Because that’s what men do, they dehumanize women and instead view them as objects of pleasure.
Just my thoughts. I’m interested in hearing if anyone agrees/disagrees.
@@jaylove1931 I agree I always believed having things such as an onlyfans doesn’t make us empowered or liberated. It literally makes us employees of the male gaze, because these men are paying these women’s bills and are they’re primary audience not other women.
@@jaylove1931 I think sex work like OnlyFans is empowering to women bc like you said they take advantage of the male gaze and if the male gaze and sex work exists always they may as well do it on their own terms.
I hope more sex work goes in the direction of OnlyFans bc it gives women the choice of whether they want to be sexualized/degraded (some women like that, that's not anti feminist) and it's almost like reclaiming sex work for themselves as a respectable career instead of the prostitution and exploitation women have been put under for centuries.
@@jaylove1931 and whether it's sexual liberation- hopefully they are confident, doing it for themselves and not for approval but at the end of the day a job is a job
So true the male gaze does affect the way women present them, it's honestly sad though that men seem that have that much power over women. We shouldn't need to change ourselves to please men
Correct me if I’m wrong but I think it goes both ways. Like she mentioned in the video “if a good looking guy stares at you” women take it nicely but if the male looking at you is below average/social standards the state might be taken as a treat. Well, what i’m trying to say is that men also try to look nice for women to not been seen as a treat. Women also influence men in a certain way.
@@LuisLara-tl1lk it depends on the woman. But if a guy follows me it doesn't matter how attractive they are, it's creepy and scares tf out of me.
as for stares, I don't really care unless it's in a creepy way. I'm still a minor so if a guy overage stared at me I'd feel uncomfortable, obviously.
It's not as deep as you are making it. People will have power over you if you allow it.
We dont have power over you that you dont willingly give.
I agree that men change for women to and a good example is men working out to be more appealing
what you're describing is self-objectification. I'm actually writing my dissertation on it rn. It's so fucked up and honestly I'm the same way you are I feel the exact same way. Self-objectification can actually lead to things like depression and anxiety so it's pretty damn crazy
Would you be willing to send me that? Omg
I dress sexy “for myself” but also definitely because I see myself through the “male gaze” too. It’s interesting how I feel empowered as a woman being sexy around men but not giving them the time of day.
I know exactly what you mean. The ability to make guys fall at your feet and appearing distant and aloof can feel really empowering. It gives a sense of control, however it’s false. We have power to make ourselves appear sexier but no power to prevent ourselves from being sexualized
If you feeling power depends on a external factor, is that really empowering? or are you just feeding your insecurity (or ego)? Power is not giving a fuck what others would think about you, good or bad as long as you do you and you do not inflict damage to other people around you.
read the book "The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck book by Mark Manson" you'll know what real empower looks like
in conclusion to all of the comments:
- women are rad
- hetero men kinda suck
as a lesbian too there's this god-complex i used to have of "i look so fucking hot and this pussy looks, tastes and FEELS so fucking good but no man will EVER enjoy me" that made me feel invincible until i realized that it manifested itself onto my relationships so i had to unlearn that. one of the joys about being gay is obviously the women i'm with but also that i have no space for men in my life (obviously male trauma still slithers in because all men have are skid marks and the audacity but yk its manageable)
@@potatobread3947 now I'm going to read this
Ngl I hoped you would have mentioned how the male gaze affects our wardrobe from childhood - can't wear certain things because of paedos or appearing too grown to US school policies (I heard they're ridiculous) etc
But this was cool too lol
YES!! I’m still in my young teenage years and I’m heavily affected by the male gaze even when I’m alone in my room doing school on a computer. School has been my main source of looking through the male gaze
Like the rule about not wearing tank tops. You don’t want to distract the men with your shoulders
But why would you want your young child to be wearing provocative clothing? Doesn't that seem odd to you, to allow your six year old to wear clothing that a grown woman would wear? Maybe you misused the term pedophile because it seems like you're talking about highschool.
@@waldoswife.4485 I was talking about instances where pre and pubescent girls have to wear a layer under a loose vest/tank top coz people freak out of they see a girl's nipple, curve of a budding boob or bra. Or showing a certain amount of leg at any age as two examples. Plus, apart from that final year, aren't high schoolers children? I don't believe I misused the word
@@asimple_favor exactly
As I've gotten older, I've noticed that I'm now invisible to men in public.
It's nice. I can just get on with my day and not have to deal with that bullshit anymore.
Lucky
Same
im fifteen and ive mostly been stared at when i was eleven to now, but never my face.
@@StarDustwolf77 oh wow
@@StarDustwolf77god bless you.
as a lesbian, i still do find myself adjusting to fit the male gaze more. before i identified myself as a lesbian, i identified as a bisexual person when bisexual women became a trend because men supposedly found that attractive. even my standards on women are affected by the male gaze because i find the sexualized women in media hot and attractive and have had some trouble being physically attracted to the women i loved because they don’t necessarily fit in that sexualized mold. while i am learning that my true standards are truly different from the ones mandated by the male gaze, it still is a brutal realization that women are affected by the patriarchy to such an extent.
As a bisexual woman, I am disappointed every time I realize that this basic part of my identity is fetishized by men. It feels so strange
I mean I get why people find bisexuality attractive. I just am taken aback every time I reveal it just to be immediately harassed about it
YOU TOO?!?!?! MY GOODNESS THANK GOD IT IS NOT JUST ME this has happened to me multiple times and I am ashamed to admit it this comment helped me a lot in a way knowing it is not just me and it is not my fault that it happens like I am trying doing the same as you are and I wish I could escape the damn male gaze
honestly samee. learning about the male gaze actually helped me accept my queerness because i saw a post that was like "wanting male attention doesn't mean you're attracted to men" and then i watched Natalie's (contrapoints) video on shame elaborating on the male gaze and i realized that was my experience with my sexuality. me accepting that i was a lesbian led to me dressing up how i wanted (which was very feminine-presenting, cottagecore lesbian-esque complete with the mushroom earrings) then i liked the attention i got but i was also starting to question my gender (which just presented a myriad of problems) and i wanted to present more masculine but i couldn't because the male gaze + internalized homophobia led me to believe that i have to be the "acceptable" type of gay. that i had to be feminine-presenting, just have longing and ~yearning eye contact with women, maybe hold hands with a woman for 5 seconds and when i get drunk that's the only time i get to hook up with fellow feminine-presenting bisexual women. like how is it that men occupy so much of a lesbian's thoughts? i have to keep reminding myself that i don't have space for men in my life. i don't have space regarding thoughts about male attention. unlearning both the male gaze and internalized homophobia is so fucking tough.
not trying to be rude. i'm bi but i see this kind of story a lot and it makes me question myself. how did you know you were lesbian and not bi?
Yes. I agree. The way that most men look at me is disgusting. Plus, the shit they say 🤮 I literally have days I don't feel connected to body because of it. I've literally been followed and touched by strangers on the street. Degraded by men trying to buy things or show off their money to me or give me money thinking that will flatter me or get them something in return. Plus, I've been sexually assaulted. So I constantly feel like I'm being punished for a body I didn't ask for. I love my body and I love attention for guys I find attractive. But I hate questioning if all ppl want me from me is my body.
I can relate to that a lot, and I’m so sorry that you and women in general have to make those experiences. Sending much love 💞
That explains what I feel perfectly.
exactly omg!! also lysm and I hope you're okay
Porn gets guys in their lower self so most guys are drained and they never get to experience normality and female beauty in its entirety. Girls should push the benefits of sr and you will see a change.
@@cinematv7370 don't expect girls to be the ones fixing everyone when the majority of these issues are caused by men who see us as objects not people and will never listen to us alone
Compliments are nice. But NOT if they make a person uncomfortable. If you wanna be nice just keep it nice and genuine.
yes.
Okay...? How is someone supposed to know if a compliment will make the other person uncomfortable? Sure, in like extreme examples of cat-calling, it should be pretty obvious, but as you move towards more conservative compliments, how is a guy supposrd to know where the line is when it will be different for each person?
@@suckmyduck7029 you can never go wrong with a "hey excuse me? I really like your outfit/ I think you're very pretty/ I love your hair(/eyes/makeup/etc) ! And if you don't even have enough social skills and human decency for that, just don't say anything at all and just smile politely idk its not that hard
@@trisglldld6634 okay and what if complimenting a girl on her dress will make her uncomfortable? or telling her she's pretty makes her feel objectified? I know this probably sounds crazy to you as a woman(or I assume you are by your name), but approaching someone who you are sexually attracted to is a daunting task, and these are the thoughts that will probably run through a reasonable guys mind several times before he approaches her.
It isn't about having social skills, this will almost always be a very nerve-racking thing to do, and there will probably always be examples of guys coming off a little bit crude or creepy. And even if we are talking about a lack of social skills, how do we then teach these people how to actually approach women respectfully? I don't think just writing off the experience of a lot of guys who without malicious intention, come off maybe a little creepy/rude. As I said in my original comment, there is obviously an extreme here with things like full on sexual harassment/groping/whatever, I'm not referring to these guys, they are an entirely separate issue.
@@suckmyduck7029 1. To answer your question, if you are scared of that just go w the safe route and apologize in advance? People don't need reasoning for their own personal boundaries so just say "Oh I'm sorry if that came off as rude I just noticed you walking by and I love your jacket" or say something like mentioned in my other comment and look at their reaction, if its bad, explain your intentions. Idk how ppl cant think of that themselves I mean its pretty obvious lmao?
Everytime I want to change something about myself I ask myself "would I change it if men didn't exist?"
and my answer would be no, then I dont change myself.
Are u talking about changing something about your personality or thought process? or like your physical look ?
physical look
If men didn't exist I wouldn't have self esteem issues so this is helpful
@@chiacharles5490 me too, men do create the impossible beauty standards
Oh my god. Love this
The more I hear “male gaze” I hear male gays
Lol and oooo Felix is ur pfp I like that lol
We prefer the male gays anyway
It means you're waking up 😂
Now I can't unhear it 😂
Hello fellow stay
The looking at yourself through 3rd perspective is so true
all humans do that, that ain't about male gaze. The most extreme of that version is called anxiety. people develop looking at yourself in 3rd perspective because how our parents mold up to be something perfect but hard to achieve to the point we start looking everything about us. That's not in about male gazing.
@@potatobread3947 literally shut up
@@potatobread3947 its dissociation, its not a normal thing.
@@bruiseviolet1992 stfu and take a seat, literally everyone views themselves like that unconsciously. Men and women alike. Think about it, men also live with standards pushed by other men and women. We're expected to have a certain muscular body, money, height, and private part size. Also let's not for get men are told to man up so we always have to prove how masculine we are and so many women also push those narratives on men. So yeah, everyone views themselves in the 3rd perspective. You ain't special or the only one with standards, talk to a man or woman and actually listen.
@@StarDustwolf77 it's very common tho, why do you think in our era everyone cares about identity and how others view us. Everyone does it unconsciously in some shape or form.
"you are a woman with a man inside watching a woman. you are your own voyeur." -margaret atwood
we've internalized the male gaze. because society is patriarchal and history was dominated by men, we can only ever see things through the patriarchy's perspective. those girls who say they dress up, shave their body hair and do makeup for themselves etc, even if they're not consciously lying, their decision is still influenced by the male gaze. without it, they wouldn't feel insecure or consider changing their appearance. if stuff like that makes you feel more confident, think about why. think about where that need to conform to beauty standards even stems from in the first place.
love your videos, you always hit the nail right on the head
There's a lot to unpack with this comment.
"we can only ever see things through the patriarchy's perspective." Speak for yourself.
"without it, they wouldn't feel insecure or consider changing their appearance" Who says they're insecure? Citation needed for this entire statement.
"their decision is still influenced by the male gaze"
First, that's not up for you to decide. Just because you see things from this perspective doesn't mean all other women do. Don't project your insecurities onto others or claim they must think the same way "subconsciously." You are undermining their autonomy.
Second, congratulations, you've figured out that having an identity within a society involves being perceived by other members of said society. This isn't exclusive to the "male gaze," that's just how living in civilization works.
Third, so what if they're "influenced by the male gaze"? As long as you are not obsessing over it to an unhealthy degree (which, yes, some do struggle with), there is nothing wrong with caring about what half the population thinks of you.
"if stuff like that makes you feel more confident, think about why." I agree people generally should consider the reasoning behind the actions, but if you're trying to imply it's bad to wear makeup just because it's the standard, I would strongly disagree. It's okay to like popular things.
Criticizing people for "conforming" isn't any better than criticizing them for not doing so. We need to stop judging others on how they live their lives, and let people be themselves authentically - whether that involves caring about how others see them or not.
@@jennali9800 i'm not implying anything. you're the one who seems to deny the ever-present influence of the patriarchy. we were raised with the male gaze and it's impossible to break free of it, because we have no idea what we'd feel like or think, and who we'd be, in a different world. a world without men, a matriarchal world, or simply a non-patriarchal egalitarian world with no history of misogyny or misandry, and no concept of gender roles. you've severely misunderstood me. i'm not criticizing women, and it's ridiculous that you took it that way. i'm criticizing the patriarchy. i don't blame women for seeing things through the male gaze, because everyone does, including myself. i blame society for this, which is male-dominated, so idfk why you think i'm putting down women for conforming. you're not seeing the bigger picture here. patriarchal ideas of womanhood are very limiting so there's no way to be our "true authentic selves" without subconsciously internalizing the male perspective in some way. whether we're playing into the male gaze or actively, deliberately, consciously deviating from it, it's there in the back of our minds, affecting our actions and the way we present ourselves. femininity is a performance, and our social concept of it was invented by men, because gender roles are patriarchal concepts. that is all.
@@punkbjork No, I understand what you're saying. But as I said, this isn't exclusive to the "male gaze", this is just how society works. An alternate version of you in a matriarch world isn't a more genuine or authentic form of the real you, it's just an alternate version. Your identity can't be extradited from the environment you live in. That _is_ your true, authentic self. But more to the matter: what is your point, then? what do you suggest that women do?
@@jennali9800 nothing really, but be aware of their own cognitive processes and how their mind works. it was simply an observation i had. raising awareness can't hurt. i just think the world would be a better place if we had conversations like this, raised questions and encouraged people to think critically. you're absolutely right on that point, though, that that's just how society works. we are always shaped by our environment. but when the world doesn't favor us, and in fact harms us when we internalize patriarchal views, and base our self-worth and self-esteem on our physical appearance, it's up to us to try to break free of that mindset. and that's impossible to do if we're not even aware of it. i'm not saying it's a crime to value beauty, it's just regressive and counterproductive to prioritize it above all other virtues of deeper substance. nothing wrong with visual, sensual, or aesthetic pleasure, as long as we don't let it define our sense of identity.
@@punkbjork In that case, we're in agreement. I do apologize if I came off as hostile in my first comment.
As a women in her early 20’s I resonated so profoundly with what you were describing. Particularly the outer body experience of looking at yourself and playing a character of a hot, mysterious, only girl in the room, kinda girl (lol ugh I cringe a little) that you’ve seen in media, thinking that something is wrong with me for being borderline obsessed with how men see me, and not being able to escape it even through trying to be the opposite of what it wants ! Jesus Christ . Especially growing up Mexican the machismo culture is VERY gender power dynamic oriented and very ‘women stay home look beautiful have babies and give husband sex’ . It’s weird because I think I tried to get rid of it, but I realize that it’s a part of me now. Like I don’t think I can ever fully get rid of it but just try to live with it and build my knowledge of my worth outside of being a shell of a human that’s nice to look at. It’s rough out here lmaoo . Anyways, I loved your video!! and you’re so gorgeous! (And obviously way more than that lol)
omg i feel like we are the same person lol
I've also noticed that the Male Gaze has effected my eating disorder and body dysmorphia-
they only make * certain types * of girls that are deemed worthy and if you're "too fat" or whatever is deemed unappealing and it feels like I have to spectate my body by the male gaze to determine if I "deserve" it or deserve an outfit or things like that. hell, even during sex, I feel like I have to strike a damn pose and play it up that I dont even enjoy it anymore because porn and sexual media has made me SO self conscious...
idk if you know, but men doesn't seem as aloof, carefree, or absent-minded as you might think they are. they are just as self conscious about how they look or how they act. Most men are insecure about their performance in bed, heck, they even build an entire industry to profit off that insecurity.
With the current progression of the feminist movement, nowadays theres alot of men that played into those feminist (or dare i say, female gaze) idea on how a perfect man should look and act. Look at how a lot of tik tok boys dress more "feminine" or act more "sensitive" to please and attract the female viewers just because its the new "standard" for male attractiveness.
Yes the 2 gaze expect different things for each sex, but at its core, they are actually pretty similar.
It happened the same to me but it was the opposite I wanted to look sick so nobody would look at me sexually, I guess it works different for everyone
@L'sLeftSaggingBoob you're right
I'm a very feminine boy (i think i'm non-binary actually) and I always find myself acting more feminine to attract the attention of a girl or a boy (I'm bi)
However, I feel like men don't really like feminine men, and women don't like men that are too feminine... so i guess i'm stuck
But anyway, now i just try to please myself and no one else lol
@@dc9067 I love feminine guys but just don’t overdo it If you know what I mean
@@boa9557 um how about i do what i want ? Thx :)
I think that the problem is the balance of compliments by gender and how it leads to objectfication, women are on the side that it happens so much that it becomes harassment and dehumanises them, and men are on the side that it almost never happens, when a guy says "don't act like you don't like it" to a girl complaining about it, it's 100% projection, like thinking about it i only have like 3 memories of girls complimenting me, that validation hits hard, i remeber all 3 moments vividly
yes! the third person perspective is so real and difficult to get rid of. a lot of men have no idea what its like
me who feels that way whenever there is a dog around me: ok
@@abubeker3979 That's what it feels like to be around men, it's like you're in the middle of rabid dogs, thanks for the analogy
iam very curious what you are refering to: men dont know what it is like to be looked at with the male gaze or.. more like men dont know what it is like to be a woman. because those are diffrent. one is kinda true [although men have to be wary of the male gaze too to avoid being "creepy"] and one is just flawed so much it is hard to understand
i just want to understand a womans point of view i dont want to shame anyone
@@Strix_Nyctea men don't view themselves from a third person's perspective the way women do. by which we mean: women always imagine themselves from a third person perspective, because we want to make sure we are attractive at all times, regardless of if there even are other people around. the thought of appealing to the male gaze is so crippling that it appears even when there is no man to even speak of.
@@boredshrimp9425 lmao they really walked right into that one
*omg you don't even knoww how annoying it has been growing up looking at myself through the male gaze. I only recently realized how big of a role it has played in my identity. It has single-handedly stopped me from figuring out my sexuality and gender identity. now that i don't care as much about getting male attention, it has given me the freedom to explore who i am. you'll catch me wearing baggy clothes most of the time and flaunting my buzzcut. I'm over watching media that only portrays heteronormativity and heterosexual couples. Also, love the not-so-subtle taylor swift reference.*
As you should! You fricking ROCK in that buzz cut 😳❤️
@@thatgirlstephanie6023 aw thank uu i made a new vid about it lol
i feel like the male gaze is the "media gaze", you know? i feel like i don't dress up thinking about men but i dress up thinking about how society in general wants me to look like
A lot of interesting takes here, as a man its not something I think about too often but its always good to hear perspectives that shed light on my own problematic behavior and in turn help better myself. Good shit.
Thank u sm for being respectful and listening to our perspective and caring about how ur behaviour might be affecting us instead of trying to undermine our perspective like a lot of dudes in the comments :) we ❤️ a respectful and well informed king
thank you, we appreciate it ❤️ and we notice the good ones
🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
Man up.
@@cutecookie1111" the good ones"💀...
“I’m a hot girl with substance” yes!!! This needs to be talked about more, I really think getting male attention has been engrained on us ever since we were kids, it’s so sad because we deserve to be admired like a painting instead. Not gonna lie, I did think dressing bummy would deflect it but I realize it’s still dictated on NOT being noticed by men. Thank you so much for making this video, it’s my first time across your channel and I’m so excited to see your content in the future.
This is so true! I grew up in a Christian household and my mother always encouraged me to embrace my figure (I'm skinny thicc lol). That I, as a young woman can be riveting and respectable. My mum looks a lot like a heavier Jill Scott! Full figured, caramel complexion with a STUNNING smile. She wears low-cut blouses on dates, her sweaters at church, and loves the Lord, she's attracted to her husband (my dad) because he's handsome AND a man of God! She made me realize more than anybody else that what people view as respectable is on an individual basis, in other words, "damned if you do, damned if you don't" So you ultimately take it up with God (or yourself, if you don't believe)
@@kennedyjojackson1202 Your mom sounds like a gem!
Awesome video! It really has changed my perspective on the actions I take as a guy. I don’t really try to look at women in a purely sexual way but now I can understand how the way I interact with them can be perceived differently on their end. From now on I’ll probably be more careful about the way I make women around me feel.
What you said about pick me girls is so true, please do a video about that
i actually already have a video on that topic called "letting go of the cool girl mentality" where i talk about the "not like most girls" phenomena and how it's portrayed in media :) (i just didn't use the phrase "pick me" but they're kind of in the same category lol)
@@MadisynBrown awesome, thank you! I'll go and watch it!
@tired andsad no one has a problem w the tomboy girls or the girls who like typical “guy” things. It’s only a problem when a girl puts another girl down for the sake of male attention. I’d like to disagree w you and say that there is something wrong w doing things for the sole purpose of getting a male’s attention. Because in doing so, the girl/woman, puts herself last n begins to cater for the man.
@tired andsad I don't necessarily have a "problem" per say when I see other girls change themselves or go out of their way for a male. I just find it cringe. And let me clarify in what instances I would think their behavior would be considered cringe to me. For example, when a girl says she likes sports and cars ( two things people usually identify as "male' interests) when she really doesn't just so she can seem "cool" or "not like the other girls" to them. Or when a girl says " I don't wear make up. I like to be natural" . Which, inherently, that statement isn't wrong but is, if immediately followed by another statement from a girl stating how much she loves to wear makeup. The first girl's statement about being "natural" would be cringe to me because it seems as if she is trying to disregard the second girl's interest or trying to say why she'd be a better pick for the male.
And I totally agree with you on how in order to have a healthy relationship, both partners must do things things for one another at times. But, that isn't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the pickme's and Nlog girls who put other girls down just for the sake of a male's attention.
To quote you real quick," `If anything, judging from what im seeing lately it appears that women are the primary ones trying to shame other women for getting males attention.' " It's not necessarily shame I believe, but more of thinking " oh no baby don't do that to yourself " whenever we see another woman lower themselves(or another woman) for the sake of a male's attention. Another rebuttal I have to that statement is, why would a male have a problem with women paying attention to him? Lol So, of course you'd notice more women being the ones to critique other women's behavior when it comes to those sorts of things.
In conclusion, women paying attention to men ------> not inherently bad
women doing things for their man(or non male partner)------> not inherently wrong
women putting other women down for the sake of male attention ------> bad
women changing/ lying about their interests for the sake of male attention --------> questionable
Male gaze inception
Most of the time I look a mess and don’t care, but when I do look good I love the male gaze, something is so empowering about knowing they are looking at me and yet would never even have a chance with me :)
UPDATE 2 YEARS LATER: it doesn’t matter if they have no chance with you, they will always assume they do, unfortunately you can’t defeat the male gaze by trying to change it, it stays the same. It doesn’t matter what you wear, I had more men looking at me in my school uniform than I do now that I’m a legal adult.
I mean some people just like attention lol
You go Glen Coco!
@@thetwilightzone2403 PLS
@@thetwilightzone2403 wait that sounds familiar what movie is that from?
@@tamethismain6630 I mean it's literally one of our basic needs. Everyone loves attention, just not all the same way or the same amount. Doing something for attention isn't something to be ashamed of nor should anyone shame you for it.
I love love loved this video, however, "pick me girls" don't always subscribe to femininity are necessarily "pick me" girls. It felt kinda hostile when you implied all hoodie-wearing, non-feminine women are "pick me" girls;;;; PM girls can present themselves in any shape or form. I think a better way of phrasing what you said towards the end about women who present themselves more masculinely (i.e. tomboy) is that a lot of those women do so to subvert the male gaze. They may feel jaded with femininity and the baggage that comes with it - the male gaze - and by dressing in the opposite, hope to no longer be under its control. However, in that process alone, women are still making decisions based on the male gaze.
i think this is exactly what i thought.
but what is a "pick me" is that like a simp but a female??
@@Strix_Nyctea "pick me" is like the saying "I'm not like other girls"- where one tries to prove (to men/boys, but can also be expressed to society generally) they're different from the rest of the girls due to not doing what is considered "feminine". And might put other girls down to get attention from guys. @Grace A She mentioned first "tomboys" or not so "feminine" girls then she said pick me girls as another example.
Amen
Many pick mes play up the hyperfemininity and think they're better because they're "more feminine" or "real women".
Idk where yall getting these terms then labeling and generalizing girls who where 'neutral'/ 'tomboyish'/ less girly clothes as 'pick me'. Some may do it too hide but others,like me, simply do it cuz it feels more comfortable.
“I’m a hot girl with substance” i like that
Baby Benny 10:09
I'm a man and have been trying super hard to change my habit of staring at others. Its not that I stare only at women but at people in general. I also think that random strangers staring is very creepy. I have a sister and a mother, and feel scared for their safety.
Perhaps you're an observant person. Perhaps you can accept and control rather than throwing it. But perhaps your plan will also work.
I also stare a lot and I'm woman
I stare by mistake it’s going to sound. Silly but I always think someone’s going to hurt me so I have a staring problem
I'm so tired of trying to be approved by men.
Perhaps don't
@@ariezon LMAO ok
Then stop fucking crying about it
@@punchn9001 girl- where was she crying about it? she said she was tired of it.... meaning she doesn’t care about men’s approval anymore. can y’all use your brains for once?
So you'll be alone for the rest of your life then
Okay
1. You're gorgeous but, you already knew that.
2.I love how honest you are about this stuff, a lot of women really do adjust how they act for the men around them.
3. Fuck the patriarchy!!!
Men also adjust how they are for women.
I mean there are enough women to buy an island I don't know why there is no one yet
@@ventb1305 most of the time, that’s their choice to do so. women feel less pressured and more scared into it. they’re two different things.
@@nordinator89 well, we shouldn’t have to move out of our homes because men make us feel this way. you know that this isn’t even logical, right? and i can tell you that many people would be disappointed. the reason that we’d move would be because men are like this, and you say “do it” but at the same time, a lot of people would be sad.
@@ventb1305 by choice, not by fear or pressure
I'm only a child but ive stop wearing cloths like shorts and skirts bc men make me uncomfortable
I'm sorry you had to do that.
pro tip: they like attention of any form. positive or negative. if you notice a guy looking at you like that, treat him like he's invisible.
I love you for this video! We women have internalized the male gaze so much that we think it‘s our own will to look a certain way.
It is your own will 🤦♂️ it’s literally natural to want to attract the opposite sex, we are animals, we do just as majority of other species on Earth does.
i viewed the male gaze as something positive growing up because it meant that i would be wanted and i wanted that so badly. i never got it. that really affected me and how i viewed myself. i thought i was unattractive for years because i wasn’t looked at by men or cat called even. now looking back at that it makes me feel terrible. i’ve grown past that but sometimes i still try to seek male validation.
Loads of men want to be noticed by women growing up. You have to try hard to look good to women. Some men never learn what women like. Its a normal feeling for both sexes.
A lot of women dress for women too. Just want to out that out there.
yeah if their lesbians, but most women dress for men and they dress well to compete with women
Heyyy girl❤ you were recommended to me (even though I'm from Greece-quite literally the other side of the planet-) and I LOVE your content!! You're so authentic it's refreshing!! You SOO deserve it to surpass 1K❣ I'm sending you my good Mediterranean vibes💙🌿🦋
ayy that’s dope thank you so much!
I spoke about this the other day, if you look at rap culture all the women get things done to their body. If you think of Cardi vs her sister, from the same background - cardi has done a lot to her body whereas Hennessy has no interest in male attention I assume as she’s with a woman and looks much more “natural”
TheEllie2707 it makes you think if Meghan and cardio thought of WAP or if a man brought the idea🤥
@@evastood4539 I would not be surprised if it was written my a team of men lol
@@evastood4539 act up by the city girls was 80% written by Lil Yachty would that count as anything?
@betelgeuse you are definitely on to something
@@evastood4539 a so called rapey song by robin thicke "blurred lines" was written by a women
As a non binary lesbian who’s been repeatedly hit on and barraged with very unwanted attempts to “convert” me by who men who already knew I’m gay, I feel your pain. Just being AFAB seems to be enough to attract loads of unwanted attention, and I can’t even imagine how bad it must be for women who are far more feminine presenting than I am. You’re gorgeous and valid and you shouldn’t have to suffer disrespect or so much discomfort or poor self esteem simply because our culture is so fucked up.
Ok ladies, sometimes if you can’t beat em -and you’re feeling brave; join em. Stare down right through the eyes, into their very soul and watch the fear form in front of you and stand back, and bask in your own power xxx
Yeah lol. I dont really look at folks due to some trauma, but even I would take that as a sign of interest. Then id leave.
I do that many times with my male classmates
But it ends up with me asking how long did they sleep and they reply sometimes that they haven't slept or I point out how they look like as if they've been pushed down the stairs or something.
@imran the intergalactic beggar It's not meant to insult but rather point out how stressed they look.
But hey, I guess its 'mY mOm' who I should ask when I'm talking about my classmates and not you.
@imran the intergalactic beggar Well, being in a classroom environment with 39 other people that sleep at either 12 or 1 am, it is common to notice very stressed people. I didn't mean that I cause the stress by staring. I was more of detailing that unlike what the og comment suggests will happen, it's instead a normal human interaction.
Summary: I was poking fun at the og comment for it's unrealistic solution for 'the male gaze' because staring really either gets weird or you're just gonna notice little stuff like someone looking tired af.
@@z_.5557 Yeah sometimes people like this hype themselves too much. Whenever I read about folks doing bizarre things to feel powerful I just feel bad- its like they probably lack actual power and need a win.
Because ive never heard of anyone responding to someone staring like that unless there are mental issues.
Thank you so much for this video. I never felt insecure about my body up until I got into my first relationship (at that point I was no longer a teenager). I think I got insecure after getting together with him because suddenly I saw myself through the male gaze and I'm not someone who fits the "gorgeous sexy hot woman trope" 😅
This! I saw myself as an acceptable human being until I was in a relationship. Then I began wondering if I was worthy of said relationship because of what I thought is seen as desirable to a man. I stopped caring about being human and started caring about "being a proper woman".
Yessss I consider myself hot asf but as soon as I got into my first ever relationship I felt undesirable in terms of boobs because I thought, there are so many women out there plastered all over the internet who have more and I thought what I had was not enough for my boyfriend so surely he’ll choose to browse for other girls and fantasize about them
Medeea Chiciu I feel this soooo hard. What can we do about that :(
@@KittensAndStuff if you want we can chat about it:)? If you have an Instagram or something
@@medc2592 as you should queen!!! 💖👸🏼💞
The issue with the male gaze isn’t the basic part: men might look at a women they find appealing, that is not the issue. The issue is the staring. And the culture behind it. If a man looks at you quickly and finds you attractive but looks back away. This is fine and shouldn’t really hurt you. But if they creepily stare for a few minutes. You should feel uncomfortable. The male gaze’s main issue is what I said before, it has cultural push behind it in other circumstances that can be harmful like catcalling (not okay) and calling people derogatory terms. To end off, most men aren’t pigs (but I’m sure that was obvious) but many many people really do think women are just for sex (which is absolutely disgusting) and you should keep that in mind. But, y’a know. Be fair to people, I like to assume the best of people.
You can't assume the best of a man when he is staring you down and could pose a real threat to you.
@@fizzybizzy3790 perhaps it isnt the same for other men, but I have a bad habit of staring at people regardless of gender especially on bus rides. And the majority of the time, I'm unaware of my actions and that I could be making others uncomfortable
The male gaze ingrained in me is most likely one of the biggest reasons I developed an eating disorder
sorry to hear that, hope you're doing better❤ you're not alone!
@@Grace-ig7vm Thank you so much!!
@@schokodrinkfurimmer8230 ΑΗHH I'M SO HAPPY TO HEAR THAT!!❤❤❤
@@aaaaaaahelpme that and ballet :(
Why are you so easily bothered...also didn’t you know starving yourself isn’t good? Why didn’t you think logically and not with your emotions?
I check myself out any chance I get (i could look like a total bum), some may say it's narcissistic but I just love myself lol. I guess it comes with age 🤷 .
Goals
I check myself out too!!! Face wise cuz I’m still insecure about my body and acne. But if acne hadn’t taken a shit on my face id be checking myself more than I already do 😂😂
@@cuzumakemyearfquake I feel you with the acne. I had it from beginning of puberty up until I basically got to college. But hey these are just challenges to strengthen your love for yourself. If you can really appreciate yourself in any state, as long as you're trying there won't be anything not perfect about yourself.
That is the level of confidence I am striving to achieve fr 🤩🤩🤩💅💅💅
THATS WHAT I AM SAYING. In another comment some guy was trying to say that women only dress up or look good for men. I havent left the house in 3 months and i still do the most just to look at myself and go damnnnn😂 there is no men seeing me yet I still dress up, do my hair, wear some make up and wear perfum.
It’s sad that you really can’t escape it. I remember sitting on the buss on my way to school once, when this literal middle aged man that sat infront of me, flipped out his phone and started FILMING me, not being subtle about it what so ever. I was 12. Of course I retaliated with filming him back, being just as obvious, and he stopped as soon as he saw what I was doing, and left at the next stop. That experience made me very uncomfortable and aware of the fact that some men don’t see you as a living, breathing person, because there is no doubt in my mind what he was going to do when he got home with that video.
Wtf
this reminds me of when i was TEN and in my bus on my way home and these two guys in a truck next to us took out their phones and clicked pics of me,, we aren't allowed phones at school and i didn't own one till i was 16 anyways. a couple of people around me noticed and one of them held a notebook up to my face to stop them from taking pics,, some of the older kids argued w the truck dudes to delete my pics, they didn't and sped off instead. and yeah, just like you it made me very uncomfortable and disturbed, i didn't feel comfortable w having my pics taken by people CLOSE to me for 2-3 years after
I feel as though we are just giving men what they want if we play into it. I dont know though.
I actually think they want us to not play into it because I feel like they like the idea of it more when we don’t want it. Like they get a kick out of harassment.
@@spookyspaghett1 oh like the thought of our fear makes them like it more ? That's terrible omg
@@spookyspaghett1 except men who harass women literally hate rejection, so the idea that men get a kick out of women not liking them combined with the fragility of their egos doesnt make much sense
They need female attention. Positive or negative. That's why I don't give them time of the day, but as she said above, they get a kick out of tour discomfort so you have to be a pro at grey rocking
@@kidawesomeness123 not really, the point that's being made here is that this type of men don't find the idea of harassing someone who "consents" as appealing. and when i say "someone who consents", it means someone who plays into the male gaze. if you directly ask that type of men to sexualize you, you will receive a negative reaction, but they have no problem doing it when it's unwanted or unasked for.
I don't think you should blame yourself because you sometimes get validation from the male gaze, but I do think we should as a society try to change that. I think women have been taught that our value lies in the eyes of men, in the spectacle we can present them and how they will judge it. It's not our fault, most media is made by men.
I think this quote from Margaret Atwood on internalized male gaze sums it up about pick-me girls and feeling the male gaze even when you're alone:
“Male fantasies, male fantasies, is everything run by male fantasies? Up on a pedestal or down on your knees, it's all a male fantasy: that you're strong enough to take what they dish out, or else too weak to do anything about it. Even pretending you aren't catering to male fantasies is a male fantasy: pretending you're unseen, pretending you have a life of your own, that you can wash your feet and comb your hair unconscious of the ever-present watcher peering through the keyhole, peering through the keyhole in your own head, if nowhere else. You are a woman with a man inside watching a woman. You are your own voyeur.”
So I think there's a balance, I don't know if our desires to be beautiful are natural or come from the male gaze, many women in prison try so hard to get make-up even if there are no men to look at them (although it might just be internalized male-gaze). It's a tough topic, especially since many women have occasionally used the male gaze to feel empowered (i have), but I think we do need to acknowledge it and try to find out where the middle point is. A good start would be changing media (have more media for girls made by women themselves), so the next generation of women can grow freer to be who they really are.
The lighting and whole vibe of this is top tier
Hey u got over 500 likes. Just thought ya might wanna know
it makes me feel cozy despite the heavy discussion going on :3
I love ur pfp
I’m tired of this society we live in. I feel like this is something we will never escape. I’m tired of the comparisons, sexualization, objectification, and being seen as sexual objects rather than as human beings. I can’t wait to exist in another form someday.
I am glad that someday I will die and I will never have to live in this stupid reality.
I learnt about the male gaze at university, it's been nearly 5 years since then and I still think about the malegaze often. Thank you for this video!
"idk i just like being hot" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
YES! oftentimes when i’m dressing up just for myself, just to make myself feel pretty, i can’t help but think about how my definition of pretty isn’t actually my definition of pretty, it’s just what the male gaze told me was pretty. and furthermore, isn’t it an extension of the male gaze to need to feel pretty in order to feel good just in general? i get to the point where i’m not sure where my thoughts and opinions end and the male gaze begins
Honestly when I was femme I did get a lot of attention and then I started to transition and was playing up masculinity. I realized that while I was more protected by being masculine that didn't mean that they ever went away they just turned from straight cisgendered men to cisgendered gay men. I realized I just liked dressing feminine and that I'm still trans and I decided that it's not them who has the ability to dictate me. It's me. I would say everyone stares because femininity is magnetizing. But they don't treat you like they know or respect that power. Some people don't respect it, they just want femininity to be there for them. Which you have a choice to play and if they ever make you, it says more about the broken place they come from than where you come from. There is so much good in femininity and there is so much good in healthy masculinity. We just don't talk about healthy masculinity.
It's almost like we are told from a young age in millions of different ways that our best way to access power is through male approval
@uio yf in order to pick and choose you must have something to choose from, right?
it is, we control the planet, we are literally the backbone of society
I never comment but I really hope ur videos blow up sis! The quality and vibes of ur videos are great 💯
thank u! i really appreciate that this comment made me smile
i totally get that thing about feeling dehumanized when cat called. it’s such a gross feeling probably cuz we can feel their creepy energy being directed at us. btw ur hilarious and this was a very informative and entertaining video
what extra sucks is being a gay woman and never being able to escape male gaze whether i want to or not, and being fetishized for my sexuality :/
@@janella9215 literally ! i identify as a lesbian and i cannot count how many guys have told me “that’s hot” or trying to tell me i “just haven’t met the right guy yet” referring to themselves like NO IM GAY PLEASE LEAVE
@@janella9215 RIGHT OMFGSRUGW UGH
Just adding my 2 cents. As a person with breast cancer please know that many women who have breast implants do so because they had to get their breast(s) removed. It’s incredibly traumatic when someone surgery shames a woman who got reconstruction surgery bc believe me, it was not their first choice. (Not saying you were surgery shaming, just trying to give an example) ❤️
I think she was talking about the women that do it when it isn't medically related. Hope you're doing well tc
I attribute a lot of my body dysmorphia to the male gaze...
It’s really awesome to see this being talked about. I’m a lesbian woman, in a relationship with a lesbian woman, and still the male gaze haunts me. It bothers me like sick that I know fully well that my appearance isn’t relevant, especially in the eyes of men, and yet it’s still something ive internalized SO much. It hurts and feels hopeless sometimes.
I didn't use the words hot, woman/women, lady/ladies for years.
Why?
Hot is associated with sex and attractiveness. I didn't want guys I was talking to associate me with that word.
Woman/lady, I guess was because I was a child at the time and didn't want to be known as a woman or lady.
The reason I avoided them in the first place?
And this is the worst part, my grandpa was real creepy and I wanted to avoid him being, well, creepy.
I was around 6-7 at the time and this was on my mind everytime we went to visit my grandad.
Fuck, this was long. Thanks for coming to my TEDTalk
Nice video but 11:38 is not accurate, wearing a hoodie or loose clothing doesn't make one a 'pick me girl'
I feel like both men & women try to look attractive/sexy in the presence of the opposite gender. Like its natural to want to look good to women/men cos of biology & reproduction. Its only bad when its the only thing u think about & it controls all ur choices
Exactly! I like the aesthetic of loose clothing and hoodies. Idk where she came up with that 'pick me' theory.
Finally someone who understands that it goes both ways.
Exactly.
There's a great quote by John Berger about the male gaze (though it isn't worded as such). He says that men are seen as the ones that do, the actors. Women are the spectacle, the object of beauty, the illusion, the ones that get seen. How we are seen by men defines how they act towards us, so in order to get control over how men treat us and how we can move forward in society, we are forced to internalize the male gaze. We do this to get any control in a system (patriarchy) where we are the passive party by definition and have no power.
So yes, it makes total sense that we are trying to win in this system that is rigged against us. It makes sense that we are feeling good when we look hot and get attention. It means that we are getting power.
This doesn't mean that it's a healthy thing to do. It helps to perpetuate this toxic system. But we can't individually be blamed for that, we are just trying to move forward in the only way that we were taught how to. That's why I can't hate on the instagram models that are getting rich by being pretty. It's a matter of "don't hate the player, hate the game".
I love this. Thank u for sharing this
Girl you got me in ONNNE minute. And this is the first time I come across you..
Wow I can still vibe with people
As a nonbinary trans man, letting go of the weight the male gaze was the beginning of accepting myself for who I am
I don't mean to be rude but I don't get how you can be nonbinary and a trans man. Being trans means you are shifting into one binary to another (woman to man). If you were nonbinary wouldn't you just be that? No matter what your sex assigned at birth you would just not subscribe to any gender? Mind explaining please?
@@wevs7239 gladly! Thank you for asking! I say “nonbinary trans man” as to signify, in my understanding of it, it’s a way of saying that I use they/them/he/him and was born AFAB.
@@wevs7239 transgender meaning identifying as a gender that doesn’t match with the gender you were assigned at birth. so yes non-binary is trans
@@forrestmorrison4641 Tysm for explaining! I just want to remind you that you're valid and beautiful ✨
@@Chiwasshere Thank you, Magma! It’s all a bit new. I start T pretty soon tho, I’m excited
"I just like being hot" haha I love the honesty. Sis, me too
I love your honesty and that youre talking about this topic. I have felt this since I was in middle school and its definitely been impactful on my mental health over the years. Im 21 now and just realizing in therapy how much my self esteem was influenced by the male gaze :(
This confidence is everything 👌🏽✨
i thought to myself once, why do people dress up?? not only women but men too... why do we try to look so visually appealing when we leave our houses??... i quickly realised that everytime someone says "i do it for myself" they were only telling a half truth beacause if everyone on the planet except us was blind we would stop trying to look good, this lead me to think that we change our appearence to be better accepted by society... so when someone says "i do it for myself" i think, yes but you only feel confident in your outfit or make up beacuse you think it makes you seem attractive in a society (not even sexually just approachable). Basically you indirectly dress up so that other people have the pleasure of looking at you and as a result your confidence is raised because people found you attractive in some sense. Think about it, it's weird
It is 100% weird from a logical perspective, but I feel like humans as a social species, wanting to fit into a society to demonstrate their worthiness of / potential for accumulation of resources makes a lot of sense. A caveman saying "I dress up for me" is telling the whole truth: they're probably dressing partially to fend off the elements and partially to look acceptable to the rest of their social group. Wearing the skin of something you killed shows you can get food, so people might be more willing to hang out with you and trade the cool stuff they got for the stuff you killed.
it's an interesting point
@@mallosteric for me I think its connected to the base of nature itself. If you look around there are plenty species in this world that have some uniqueness to appeal to other sex. Like how somE male birds have coloful feather to Appeal their female. And usually those female has less of a appealing appearance. There are something in this nature, a feeling of need from the other sex. Of course it is because of all the species need to reproduce and other things.
But why species need to appeal other sex to do things like reproduce. Generally why we need to look appealing to do or get something, EVEN PLANT HAS FLOWER to attract bugs. Its just so weird to think about. Its the base of our society how needed to look appealing/attractive to other counterparts creates some boundaries of how things should be. A woman need to looks appealing/attractive to men and vice versa.
Of course we can just be ourselves and dress as we want. But then it goes to your statement.
There just something why the world works like this.
@@dawae2162 yep, it's everywhere! And the cool thing is, culture is always moving and making new things attractive, like you were saying with the "wear whatever we want". And what's even cooler is that humans don't have to be bound by that expectation of physical attraction to be successful.
The biological purpose of life is to create more life, but we sure have a lot of people on the planet these days, some might even say overpopulation. So I like to think of it like this: for someone to grow a baby, they have to eat 300 extra Calories a day in their third trimester. That adds up to around 27,000 Calories per baby. An animal that has more babies has a better chance of furthering its species, since one more baby means one more adult animal that has the potential to survive long enough to mate and create more of that animal.
A human could probably have a maximum of 10 babies in prehistoric times, which is equivalent to 270,000 Calories.
For the modern day, there are factors like overpopulation and cultural expectations that lead to there being ways to be biologically fulfilled without having 10 kids. If we use that 270,000 Calorie number, I think that means if a person puts 270,000 Calories of effort towards furthering humanity, then they are biologically fulfilled.
I think for a lot of animals and plants, reproduction is the main way for them to keep existing, but for humans and the animals we domesticate, it seems like we don't have to worry as much about dressing up just to be attractive for reproduction. It's more about showing the whole group we have the capacity to use that 270,000 Calories of effort to help each other out.
I really like your perspectives I feel especially because I am a also a black woman I can relate and usually when ig I speak about the “positives” in these situations I often feel ashamed or misunderstood
yesss that’s exactly why i do what i do on my channel. black woman have a unique perspective and we’re often times misunderstood or judged for simply having an opinion. tryna represent us and show that we shouldn’t be afraid to be outspoken free thinkers.
As a teenage girl, I can admit that I have tried hard to cater to the male gaze to the point that I measure my self worth of how appealing I am to guys. It ended up making me super insecure when I was alone and/or when guys would treat me wrong whilst my female classmates had guys dropping to their knees just to try and go out with them. I ended up just hating myself and it eventually led to some trauma. It sucks but I learned from my mistakes :)
YESS EXACTLY THE THING ABOUT SEEING YOURSELF IN THIRD PERSON BECAUSE YOU KNOW SOMEONE IS WATCHING i just can't get out of my own head when that happens and i get so clumsy and try to act cool and nonchalant but the more i try the more clumsy i get im tired
I wish I grew up in a society where I didn't need men's validation
Men have the same thing
You don’t you’re doing it to yourself
@@selinkorkmaz1019 not really
You don't need anyone's validation (Except for your boss)
@@user-ob5il7cy8o I have a question, you made a comment about how you wished you lived in a society were you did not need men's validation, if you don't mind, what are a Few things you felt like you had to do because of men or the "male gaze"?
Holy shit I never put the way I was viewing my body and myself into words but it’s exactly this. Thank youuu
You’re not just gorgeous woman, you’re really funny, wise and charismatic. Love your charisma 😍
Pro Tip: to avoid the male gaze, in my experience: act "manly".
I tend to spread my legs, look neutral/unimpressed/agressive, stare at the man (this one only If I have a very confident day^^), spit on the floor, etc. This makes you less interesting for most of those folks.
@uio yf to get rid of them.
Isn’t that also an issue cause honestly that was me too. Being masculine and resulting to masculine traits was a safe haven for me. So like for me it’s also problematic not fully stepping into ones feminine nature to avoid male gaze. It’s gonna happen either way
Correct me if I am wrong
So as a human we want attention but we don't want the attention in a sexual way? Is this right?
@L'sLeftSaggingBoob I think majority women don't like the sexual attention because they feel like an object
@L'sLeftSaggingBoob thanks for answering to uio yf. I totally agree with you, I just didn't have the patience to write all this down.
Loved that you used some Harley examples because Harley Quinn as a character is the perfect example of the male gaze/ female gaze.
Suicide Squad and Birds of Prey are honestly 2 great examples of these gazes.
I'm a guy and I'm straight and to me , women are amazing and not as object, but as a being. They can be sexy, but also confident and strong, they can be slutty, but also amazingly elegant and all of them as long as they show respect as men should, and try to improve and not harm themselves, they all are welcome equally. And admiration isn't simping as long as the guy doesn't degrade himself either and force himself.
Thank you for this. I have been trying to tell other women that there a lot of good non-creepy guys out there, and that this stereotype and generalization needs to get broken. I'm glad your speaking up about it.
Exactly. Both genders should respect each other.
@@GalaxyDogenut Yes!
I dont think there's anything unnatural about looking at yourself through the lense of who you want to attract, most men try to appeal to women at any given time too, we're wired to look for love so we want to be attractive, so we follow whatever beauty standard is presented in our culture, woman or man we care what who were attracted to thinks of us
Exactly!
So true!!
Fr they making to big of a deal out of it
True. Just as long as you don’t take it too far.
Thats facts and these people are just paranoid. Attraction is something natural. The more attractive you present yourself (make up, dressing, hair style, gestures) the more you will attract. It aint that hard to understand. Its stupid to assume that you're gonna dress cute and sexy and nobody will find you attractive and look. Especially when you consider that most people , women and men, intentionally try to dress well when they go out to have a good impression on the public.
the difference when i wear tight clothes vs baggy clothes is insane
i just really love how eloquently this is put, these thoughts and feelings i have had but never would want to admit and even if i did, i couldn't have worded it this way. so many comments are perfectly saying things i've felt and it's so deeply validating and i'm just so grateful this exists.
I think the reason so many men believe we dress up and do make up for them is because so man men do thing to try to impress other men, (strongest, wealthiest, who can get with the hottest girl). They have that "if I like it then it must be for me" kind of mentality
you're so pretty🥺
female gaze btw
So one time I saw a comment or something saying "how are we supposed to compliment women then?" Give us a compliment on something WE control. Dont compliment our bodies and objectify us, compliment our shoes, our earrings, our shirt, and do it in a nice respectful way. The one thing that I really like is when a man compliments something unique thata I control and something that I chose to have like shoelaces or a really cool mask or something.
Yes! A compliment would be, "You look very beautiful." or "Your dress is really pretty." But if someone is like, saying that your boobs are hot or something that's creepy and that's harrassment.
but everyone has control of their bodies? why is it wrong to compliment someone for having discipline in keeping an in shape body or a clean attractive appearance? If a guy is coming over to talk with a girl I can guarantee you its not because he liked her shoes or her shirt. We don't care about those things...
Men like boobs and ass, now that's wrong? Guess all men should become gay now
I like being powerful
making anybody look at me means that I have at least a tiny bit of power over their life, because I made them look at me (if that makes sense)
I often want ppl to look at me to show off my outfit and to show how good I can compine pieces of clothing
But I also see myself through that male gaze
I hate it bc I get so uncomfortable when I notice sb checking me out or even starting to talk to me (Even if they are just 2/3 years older)
Last time a guy talked to me and we talked for like 15 minutes (we were both waiting for our train) and he treated me so normal. Like he didn't call me pretty or anything, I didn't catch him looking at my body and it made me feel so damn good
I might feel pretty after sb stares at me, but honestly I would prefer them talking to me and being fascinated by how I talk, by my ideas, my thoughts, my humor or anything that comes from my mind
Your hair is actual perfection!!!🤩
I'm a practising Muslim woman and I find this conversation really interesting. I've personally found that covering my hair has been a really powerful way to almost completely break that internalised male gaze. I'm so much more content as a result.
This is definitely not spoken about enough because I think that there is a lot of unfair disdain from western feminists towards women that dress modestly. As a result Muslim women are often left out of this conversation as if we have nothing of value to say or offer. It takes covering your hair to discover how major a part of your femininity and attractiveness your hair is. Because when my hair is covered, I automatically no longer feel the male gaze on me. It's like a spell has been broken. Covering my hair immediately signals to my brain that I'm out of the beauty rat race. I no longer meet the criteria of the male gaze, so the man in my head...walks away.
You'd think that this would make me feel ugly. That covering my hair would make me feel less beautiful. But actually through wearing a headscarf I think I've finally managed to divorce the idea that my beauty is connected to whether or not men find me attractive. I used to feel ugly wearing it when I was younger, but actually that was my own personal insecurity that I had to work on. Now that I no longer have that insecurity, I've realised that feeling ugly is a completely separate thing from not appealing to the male gaze. That's the crucial thing. A lot of people here in the comments are talking about how being viewed with the male gaze makes them feel good. Many people are conflating their appeal to the male gaze with their own validation of their beauty.
I don't think there's a way in which you can exist as a woman without also appealing to the gaze of straight men. This is fine, but know that that appeal to the gaze will constantly make you see yourself through it.
When you actively reject the male gaze externally, you begin to realise that your beauty was never dependent on it in the first place.
Lmao please- you wear hijab because muhamad mansplained it to you!
I have a question, so in your oppion what causes the male gaze in the first place? You were talking about how covering your hair breaks it and that's great, but do you know how to destroy the male gaze altogether?
@@dickersoncharlie4961 Thank you so much for your response, apologies for taking so long to get back to you. I've been trying to figure out a way to put years and years of my ideas and thoughts about this into a statement concise enough to work into a youtube comment. The best way I can put it is this. "As a straight woman, you can’t remove or exist outside the male gaze. You either make it so that you can’t be viewed or tell men to stop looking. You can’t really do the latter without a wide scale culture and value change, so do the former."
If you would like to discuss this further and in nuance that's more suited for a conversation please reach out to me, it's a fascinating subject. :)
1K by the end of the month 8 months ago! Girl you have thrived! I’m so happy I found your page on my explore tab. Love your videos!
When I walk to school if I see a group of guys ahead of him I start being extra 😭