New terrorist tactics, geography, Army’s choices, as Kokernag tragedy thickens plot in south Kashmir
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ก.ย. 2023
- Two Army officers and a deputy superintendent of police were killed Wednesday in an ambush in a thick forested area of the Pir Panjal mountains in Kokernag. While it has been described as an intelligence-based operation gone wrong, it points towards the continuing shadow of terror that looms over Jammu & Kashmir. In Ep 13011 of Cut The Clutter, Editor-in-Chief Shekhar Gupta brings in Snehesh Alex Philip & Praveen Swami, ThePrint’s defence and national security editors, respectively, for a discussion on the ambush, what we know about it so far, the Lashkar front Resistance Front, and changing terror tactics in J&K.
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😊😊😊😊😅😊 4:05 😊
😊
😊
We need to collaborate with Israelis.. They have best vaccine for these jihadist radicals.
Bring their expertise, doctrine, drones, surveillance system, gadgets for COIN operations.
Jst pay them and u would see results within months.
They also have Electro optical based counter insurgency surveillance system like a AI wall across Israel. U can't enter even digging a tunnel.
@@neerajgupta2482go
My dear Shekhar, I am a veteran. The manner in which your team ie trying to discuss tactical skill of insurgency operations, of which they have some theoretical knowledge know , could be avoided . Terrorist aren’t controlled from AC rooms. Yes, Indian Army officers lead from the front, I did that in war and insurgency areas and I am proud of it . And we know that’s how wars are won and insurgents are controlled. Of course we take measures to hide our identity. .Let me tell you an incident . On 23 Sep 65, just after cease fire in 1965 war a Pakistani JCO came with a white flag and sought permission to collect their dead bodies which we granted. Then he broke down and said , “ Saheb apki Fauz aur hamari Fauz mein yehi farq hai. Aap ke officers Jawano ke sath khare hain, aur mere company commander nazar nahin Aate.” The ethos of Indian Army, is based on what’s scripted on Chetwode building ,” your own safety comes last always and every time “. Death is sad be it a jawan or an officer. I do know that our officers will continue to be in the forefront unlike our adversaries. And I repeat, I am proud of it.
Krishna ji…🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 for your service. If this veteran journo had invited a Services veteran to this panel, it may have been a sincere attempt instead of this attempt to trash talk this sacrifice by young officers.
Absolutely ..... 🙏🙏🙏
❤
Thank you for your service 🙏
Proud of you... but these chindi media gang always against indian army and anything that is good for india
Whenever families are reminded of the tragic details of their loved ones’ demise under enemy fire, just moments before receiving a medal from the President, my heart is torn between pride and sorrow. Your show evoked these emotions in me. Perhaps, sparing some of the more graphic details might be considerate. Nonetheless, thank you for your outstanding reporting and analysis. My deepest respects to the families of the soldiers who made the ultimate sacrifice. May we strive to be deserving of their bravery. 🙏
Your emotions are spilling and probably your cries might get any dried river full with water. Now coming back to the Kashmiris who for the last 70 years are under the brutal oppression, a regime that want to uproot and destroy their lives, flooding their land with military personnels will only provoke the Kashmiris.
@@ishtiaquealamin6147A religiously blinded hate filled heartless brainless pakistani spewing lies and propaganda. Only pakistan and it's unrealistic dreams of ghazwa e hind is the reason for all terrorism in the region which even Kashmiris are aware and fed up of.
@@ishtiaquealamin6147The military is in their sovereign land.
@@ishtiaquealamin6147we have 2 million more willing to fade away. But Kashmir was always ours and will always remain ours. Whether you last or not that is upto you.
@@binaysenapati Kashmir will never be yours.
The army has not learnt many tactics from past experiences. I remember the IPKF army paratroopers being ambushed even before their boots touched the ground. This immediate incident is once again an intelligence failure.
No ..... this is simply a Momentary loss of Judgement !!! Sad but that is the Truth ....🙏🙏🙏
Can you please be sensitive while talking about our Army ? When you don't have the skill to safeguard us, just don't pass on comments to demean some one who's doing the job.
Only an ignorant road side Pappu or from Zehru's Dynasty could make such brainless remarks!!
@@curiouswanderer793here comes the triggered loser who worships the army like a god...
@@curiouswanderer793indian army is a joke...accept it... only because of numbers india won against Pakistan...if the numbers were same then Pakistan would cut indian army like dogs..
An officer can not lead from the back simply because, we are not a slave army, we are a voluntary army. When a officer is ready put his life on the front, he earns the respect the respect of every soldier serving under him. This motivates the soldeirs for the cause, not for the money and perks. This emotion is the core of the Indian services and differentiates them from others.
imo officer leading directly from the front is required when your men aren't motivated enough themselves to go ahead. Of course what transpired in this one is not known concretely, nonetheless loosing a CO person responsible for entire batallion leading from the front doesn't resemble well for on ground tactics. Officers aggressively moving ahead in group too is worrying. Change is needed for good. We desire results howsoever late but clean.
Quite stupid. In that case, a brigade attack should be led by a Brigadier and a Corps level offensive led by a Lt Gen Corps Comnander. In the tail end of every column, will be the soldiers.
Wow.
Travelling in uniform & in groups was probably the error. Also the fact like you’ll mentioned some degree of complacency/ overconfidence in this combing operations. That fact that these terrorists could have escaped after killing with impunity is really a morale buster for the army. Our heart goes out to these soldiers & their families who die in such operations & at such young age
If I ever got a chance to wear the uniform, I would always wear it and will fight the enemies wearing it...don't call it a error then if i loose my life while fighting.
@@peerashaq5209Kehna kya chahte ho ?
Don't worry, Sir. These are tragic incidents which occur in war. My utmost respect for the fallen and their families. But, you will see that these terrorists will be dead soon.
Thanks
Dear Mahesh,
Thank you for your generous contribution to support ThePrint's journalism.
Thank you. Very helpful Praveen and Snehesh. Truth-telling always wins.
For some topics the insights and information offered here is gold mine. Much appreciated.
And at times (for complex issue) this format of chatting and discussion is much more engaging than monologue.
A very informative discussion highlighting the ground situation and operational realities.
Why army is not using thermoscans and heatscans like USA army for identifying possible human presence?
Because
1 unlike in movies it's not that effective otherwise afganistan would have been easy for the Americans
2 the terrain has very very thick cover and many natural caves
@@amithabv1060 it's not impossible. Afghanistan is a diff situation. The Taliban were hiding in Pakistan. For political reasons, Americans couldn't run drone attacks too often. They pulled trigger only when the target is high enough value to deal with political pushback from Pakistanis. The Americans also needed Pakistanis to secure supply lines to Afghanistan.
@@silverbullet3939 my point being only about using thermo scans, if it was that easy all Russian positions would have been known to the Ukrainians
@@amithabv1060 Afghanistan was easy for Americans. Tell me the ratio of casualties between Americans and Talibs in direct combat.
Adding to what @amithabv1060 said, there's a sizeable population of Gujjar Bakarwals in Pir Panjal, so how would you differentiate the enemy from them
Good decision by Shekhar to get Snehesh and Swamy in this very informative video.
What a great Episode and knowledge these Two Guests have on Kashmir Valley. How hard it is for our Indian Army personnel…. On can imagine, Salute to Army. 🙏🏽
I wish their is an easy way out of this for Kashmir valley. Waheguru 🙏🏽
But all these gruesome incidents should be condemned and ppl behind this should be punished accordingly.
Swami is Perfect in Telling That U Don't Travel in Army Uniform AND No Use Of Drones
Thank you Print for the exclusive story.
Praveen Swami reminds me of a 'Monday morning quarterback"! It is great to sit in an AC room, with takes and retakes, not so when you have to go forward to establish contact.
This episode really helped to 'cut the clutter ' really well done
12:00 It's so enraging to see that we still use helicopters that can't blast their way into small arms fire. All the Apache helicopters... such a huge loss to basically all the top local army-police leadership chain of the area.
I have wondered why have apaches at all if u cannot use the bloody things and drones
@@victor256inyeah Apaches were extremely sucessful against Taliban .
Because Taliban ran out of stingers or just expired by then
You would need a lot more Apaches for that. We have very few!
Swami is so rational in his analysis, no theatrics but pure logical narration based on cultivated knowledge over years of experience.
balls
@@beryanbeyaan8047You don't have them. Spotted a BJP-RSS chaddi who hates Swamy.
Condolences and salute to the bravery of Indjan Army. This is an excellent and exceptional discussion and reporting on such an important thing. I learned something new and important today. I plan to get paid subscription.
Excellent video cast - unfortunate we lost these officers. Indeed the body cam footage angle sounds disturbing
Middle guy is very smart tactician and must be forefront of dangerous operations.
Pravin , u r always to the point and bring great clarity.
Thanks, very informative. I went through 5 videos from different tv channels before this to try and understand this encounter but they were all useless.
Dear Ayush,
Glad to know that you liked that video. Thank you watching the video and for supporting ThePrint.
There is a very fine line between bravery and foolhardy approach. How come three senior officers were killed by one or two bursts of fire until they were bunched together or made a easy target for terrorists who were hiding and had a clear view of officers
With due respect the enemy is out there in the wilderness waiting for you and no matter how widely you separate out there is something called arc of fire. Moreover you cannot space out so much that you cannot back up your own buddy in case of firing. We also do not know what weapons the enemy was using, and we know from many such instances the fire is from an HMG which has devastating effect.
Very right question asked by Shekhar Gupta....
They are our freedom fighters not terrorists.
Mr. Praveen Swamy is very articulate & knowledgeable!
Once again a very detailed and insightful episode from you sir . Really like your way of explanation 🇮🇳
Excellent episode from the Print Dream Team, my best wishes to SG, Swamji and Snehesh AP, crisp, short and insightful, great piece and a lot to think about 👏
what is to think about when u blatantly support the narrative of netas like abdullahs then u don't hold ground on debating; for god sake Shekhar Gupta should leave making videos
@Hypobles not sure if you have seen the whole episode but I would please request you to and then comment about it, when you do respond as I an certain you will, please remember the golden social media rule if you have nothing nice to say don't
Thank you, my friend. I'm glad you found this episode insightful. Do keep watching and writing in...best wishes, Shekhar
Good and insightful information, thanks
Nicely produced with frontal expertise in the format of a GD among internal The Print Team 🙏🙏✌️✌️
Thank you, Subhranghsu. I'm glad you liked this episode...best wishes, Shekhar
Salute to the martyrs I bow my head to the supreme sacrifice made by the three brave soldiers
Very good discussion Appreciate
Where do you get their videos....😊
It is devastating to lose officers of such bravery and caliber and heart weeps for their families. Without doubting their courage, our Indian officers shouldn’t be wearing their ranks in bright colors and shiny stars and collar patch. Even their official vehicles have shining gold stars or rank signage with red background. US or even Pakistani officers only wear a single strip with rank insignia with faded color in front of their shirt. We can’t afford to lose such high ranking officer
@@HimanshuMishra00 not that they don’t wear in peace postings but when they are in combat operations, they ought to be more discreet about their ranks. Western military before the turn of WW1 used to wear flashy and embellished uniforms and was reluctant to shed it in favor of more terrain suitable attire, only when they faced huge casualties in battle field, then they decided to wear more drab uniforms. Our officers must proudly don their ranks in peace stations but it is different matter in combat zone
In the field, subdued badges and other accoutrements are used. What you see in the media is 'ceremonial' uniforms. As an example, in what was called NEFA, we used cloth badges, and really subdued equipment to reduce color, shine and to be better able to merge into the background -- this back in 1970, obviously things are much better now
What a tragic loss. I am unable to wrap my head around it. How we loose so many personel of such high calibre in a single operation. Whatever it is, I pray that the tactical shortcomings on our end (if any) and the advantage that the adversary enjoys is neuralized soon. Its heartbreaking to see so many brave sons of India lost while trying to defend us from terrorists.
Praying for strength to the bravehearts families.
Brilliant journalism 👏
How could our Indian soldiers just walk into a trap, why did the Indian soldiers not take more protection like drones taking sniper dogs etc.
My condolences goes to the families of our brave heart soldiers.
Is Indian Govt going to sit quiet and let this keep happening all the time.
My personal opinions please.
What are "sniper dogs"?
You mean sniffer dogs?
Precautions may have been taken. But ambushes are very hard to counter. Furthermore alot of pressure is put on the field officer's to show results. So sometimes mistakes happen under pressure.
This is definitely a better way of decluttering, a group discussion.
So much of knowledge from this channel
The problem is that terrorists and wannabe terrorists also get so much of knowledge from this type of talk.
I like that Shekar giving space to experts and have frequent round table
Our para military forces know what to do. Discussing in studio and fighting on ground zero are totally different.
How come you guys discuss the military strategy ?
The arms stash that US left behind in Afghanistan will now show up in the hands of terrorists all over the subcontinent. This means that these guys now will have body armor, night vision and sniper rifle. Though social media is not the right place to review such army tactics etc - it is important that think tanks make sure the powers that be takes note of these developments and makes changes to tactics, training and equipment. To understand the long term impact of such harrasment hit and run attacks please read "The Bear trap".
They already have
Taliban facing threat from ISIS, daesh. They never give those sophisticated weapons to other terrorist organisation while they are facing both Pakistan army and isis.
Only fools will hand over best weapons. US made afganistan a buffer state it can activated anytime as per their requirement.
My sincere condolences to the army and police officer families. My heart goes out to them. The sacrifices of these bravehearts should not be forgotten. If the Indian intelligence services are targeting the terrorist leadership outside India, it is logical and the fear of God should be placed into these terrorist organizations' leadership. My thank you to our Bravehearts, and we support our police and jawans wholeheartedly. Thank you
Inshaallah Endian RSS HINDUS terror group and modi Criminal Butcher of Gujrat will be in international court of justice one day
Where do the resistance front claims responsibility. On which social media site . please tell me
Thank you
Very good episode
These terrorists seem to be well trained and chances of them being pakistani army is also high… just like Kargil mission
The question is why has intelligence dried up if things are so peaceful? This same issue was highlighted dueing Pulwama in 2020... request you to ask/answer
The Commanding Officers of Indian Army who martyed in CI/IS Operation in Kashmir.
1. Colonel Ashutosh Sharma
(21 RR - 19 The Guards)
2. Colonel MN Rai
(42 RR - 2/9 Gorkha Rifles)
3. Colonel Santosh Mahadik
(41 RR - 21 PARA SF)
4. Colonel Jojan Thomas
(45 RR - 11 Jat Regiment)
5. Colonel Vasanth Venugopal
(9 Maratha Light Infantry)
6. Lt. Colonel Harsh Uday Singh Gaur
(10 Bihar Regiment)
7. Colonel Neeraj Sood
(18 RR - 8 Rajputana Rifles)
8. Colonel GS Sharna
(29 RR - 9 Grenadiers)
9. Colonel RR Gaur
(9 Sikh Light Infantry)
10. Colonel Manoranjan Panda
(120 Infantry Battalion-6 Bihar Regiment)
11. Colonel HS Dhillon
(7 RR - 21 Rajput Regiment)
12. Colonel Rajinder Chauhan
(21 RR - 17 Brigade of the Gaurds)
13. Colonel Manpreet Singh
(19 RR -12 Sikh Light Infantry)
* RR - Rashtriya Rifles)
@@uzairr_100Brigadier Mohammed Usman.
This episode is a classic re do of the way you covered the Mumbai attack. Sad that you have not changed one bit.
Disgusting , low knowledge , self styled strategists
can you explain what you meant and how he covered the mumbai attack?
@@uditabhattacharya2824 The live coverage was watched by the handlers and kept giving feedback to terrorists in the Taj and Obroi hotels. Giving critical information on the troop movements.
Kashmiris have struggled long for their freedom .....
Sad day for all of us but thank you for this Sane and informative discussion .
Idk if it’s the floor or the chair squeaking, pls get it replaced or fixed.
We all feel proud of our Army when they become Martyrs and while praising the Army heavily, we go shopping & dining & enjoy ourselves,🌹🌹🌹
This is our Spirit 😉😉😉
Can you please put the link to the IPKF article?
Here you go: www.indiatoday.in/magazine/special-report/story/19880131-indian-armys-action-against-ltte-developes-into-countrys-longest-war-since-independence-769020-2013-11-20
Regards, ThePrint Team
Nice forum.
Can someone tell me why a drone with thermal camera cannot be used here? To me it sounds like a good option to scan the forest before getting into it.
As they explained this area is barren. You cannot always distinguish terrorists from bakkarwals
I really empathise with our boys and the prople of Kashmir. The soldiers are working in an impossible situation, walking a tightrope, fighting off an insurgency with a brief to maintain peace at the same time. And the Kashmiris have to live in a constant state of conflict, noone should have to live like this. I pray for our soldiers and the people of Kashmir. 🌸🇮🇳❤️
@@HimanshuMishra00so why people forget Jammu genocide of 1947. Where "tolerant community " hindus under the leadership of RSS genocided muslim majority of Jammu and Turned it into hindu majority 🤡
@@HimanshuMishra00 Oh you learnt from Agnihotris Kashmir files😂
Top guns of The Print in action 👍
I hope you liked this episode, Anil. Thank you for watching and writing in...best wishes, Shekhar
Disappointed that none of the news channels are reporting this.
Prime example of, why the Apache attack helicopter should be operated by the Indian Army
Intent to use is the issue. Rudra will be more than enough, and army does operate them, that too in kashmir. But agree that attack helicopter should be with army.
Please use intensive drone survey before and while operation in uphill situation like this, with some trained Belgian mallinois . It's time to use mordern solutions. A wellwisher from Bangladesh.
Thete are technologies that can be used to overcome such strategies.
Radar to look through foliage to locate people through dense trees, etc.
Motion and heat sensors to detect movements around camps.
These are very common technologies.
but does our army have them? we still don't have proper bulletproof vests
@@uditabhattacharya2824
Yes. India did use radar that is capable of detecting objects under dense foliage to track naxals.
If India does not have a tech, then develop it, damn it.
I say again Sir. I understand that your intentions are pure and correct.. but the manner in which this is delivered is wrong. And one more request.. next time you want to discuss CI tactics.. I would suggest if you can interview actual soldiers who have been in that kind of a situation..I think they will give u a more apt picture of what transpires during a mil operation
Great content. However you need to sort out who looks at camera at what time. It looks strange a person talking to other and that other person looking into camera
Thank you for the episode.
Excellent analysis and useful insights.
Kudos
While it's sadly painful to loose army men ..... soldiers n officers alike.......there seems change in tactics by terrorists groups atleast.....they inviting us in forest area to fight....is time consuming and with chances of killing and escaping......time has come to use latest technology at regular combing operation.....somewhat silent in nature to know mountains well......may be high altitude drones can do regular combing OPs on all hill passed along pir panjal range on very daily basis....along with human int..... more over...time has again come to bust some across the line bunker busting or camp busting.... schedule....how to do may army is well equipped to do that.....our heart goes for our braveheart who sacrificed every thing for our life n safety.....our deepest condolences
Jai hind
V sad day for all Indians ..but india must use brain and good strategy to counter terrorism ...
A very tragic incident. I salute our brave hearts and pray for strength to their families. Our Security Forces should be using all the advanced tools proactively to track and eliminate the Terrorists with zero casualties to our Security personnel. Why are our Security Forces not adopting new tactics leveraging High Tech? We should put an end to such old tactics, Complacency and Overconfidence.
Top guns of the print assemble🫡
WOW
People who will be hospitalised if made to run 5 Miles are suggesting how Armed Forces should tackle terrorist situations
THIS IS INDIAN JOURNALISM
shekhar ji it looks eerie when you look at the camrera instead of the person who is talking ...
True.
Also awkward when you looking on notes while the interviewee talking to you.
You are a veteran, but it doesn't alter our opinions
We need to have District drone commands!!!
Manohar Parikkar was one of the great son of the soil this country had. He was absolutely correct, nobody asking army to neutralize a hiding terrorist im hours. Why rushing?
With due respect....the army knew better than Mr Parrikar in this realm of things. Hope you will agree
Journalists and [so called experts] discussing and analysing specialised military operations and giving expert "gyan" 🎉
Mat sun fir.
As I had suspected this was a tactical error in our part..and probably also an ambush attack...either the source was compromised or the terrorists saw the soldiers coming from far away through binoculars and were well prepared to take them down...as for the qn why drones etc were not deployed....the answer is simple...drones were not silent enough at least not in the silent mountains, so the army definitely didn't want to warn the terrorists..anyway, now that everything has happened, I think instead of poking them with gunshots or ieds dropped from drones and failing to kill or injure them even after 3 days...we should make a great example out of it by bringing in the artilleries and shell the hell out of the entire face of that hill.
Drones aren't silent?
They are incredibly silent you don't hear them at all
Intelligence - Tactics - weapons - Body Armour.
It is not a tragedy. It is just terms of duty. When you do policing action instead of addressing the problem at the root level in an adversarial country, there is bound to be casualties of security personnel. Security personnel are in uniform and can be targetted at will. Terrorists are in civilian attire and security personnel have to maintain restraint to avoid "innocent civilian" deaths. That fraction of a second of " finding and fixing" a hiding terrorist always results in initial casualties of security personnel. Officers of the armed forces have always led attacks from the front.
Modi the joker doesnt care about all this..he is busy congratulating himself fo G20..unless we invest heavily towards a zero-casualty war and not put experienced officers in harm's way this will repeat..
Teams scouting the forests or setting up ambushes may not wear uniforms......
In this case...they were going in from hq to set up a contact.......they will be in uniform.
Shekar Sir doing a Jyoti madam , interfering while the other two experts are talking 😀😀😀
Why was no drone monitoring support given for the operation.
There is apparently a substantial change in the tactics adopted by the Pakistani terrorists.
This is sad and huge loss of leadership of army and police. Hopefully justice and strategy correction is forthcoming.
Please resolve the issues inorder to save lives.
They are Freedom fighters of KASHMIR.
It sad that 3 brave soldiers were by evil terrorists. My heart felt condolences for these brave hearts of india.
Jai Akhanda Kashmir 🩸🩸🩸
There is still lack of training when it comes to guerrilla warfare, camouflage, clearing areas with drone, snipers and covering corners and long range view before moving forward for lead unit who are the eye and sheild for units following. The Israelies have developed framework for different ambush situation.
yeah sitting in AC room you can say that type of stupid shit , RR units are one of the best in CI/CT operation , terrorist just have suceed one time but our soldiers avert thousands of such attacks
Worry not brothers. ghar me ghus ke marenge 2.0 is being prepared as we chat about what went wrong.
@@zulfizakarya5703 lol look who is talking talking 🤣😅 92k surrender lagta hai yaad nahi hai, it was the biggest surrender after world War 🤣
and bc galti se shukqr manao india ka dimag kharab nahi hai ,nah toh pakistan ko toh map se hi Mita dena chahiye ,
anyways ttp baloch are giving you your fair share of due
Shocking cowardice of some that officers died of bleeding, but not evacuated.
CO leading. Why? No faith in command? What was done in training period?
All norma of tactics and field craft blown away
Issue is something very different, Again to win hearts of people, they used army as scapegoat like they did at the time pulwama attack..
Manohar parrikar ji was a leader . He was an educated guy , a Technocrat from IIT bombay ................ Whereas Rajnath Singh is a typical politician .................. Need to make a defence minister who knows army inside out ............ Look At how S jaishankar work as seasoned diplomat
Technology should have been used better in this case .especially at a place where there is thick forest. We should address the shortcomings.
Snehesh might consider NOT looking at the ceiling for such long times, when on camera 😊
Can someone find the correlation between Pax getting funds and spike in terrorism???🤔
At any border area, you have to always be alert whether it is peace or wartime. War tactics and technologies every day so should be our Armed forces. Otherwise the opponent will always be upperhand.
ADGP Kashmir has ruled out ambush theory