@@ninoc29 hahahaah, that advantage being they will not have to buy yet another ball... this time asymmetric in order to see the same reaction. Even Mo has trouble tongue in check of course arguing that that part is bad for him... though of course he hints that the entire exercise in misguided futility that is USBC regulation is rarely effective or logical
hardest thing l have had to learn after 40 yrs of bowling is not lift thru the shot with the fingers but hit down on the ball, work in progress big time
1:06:15 Also: Know when to loft. Protip, it is MUCH earlier than most think, my RPMs are only 280ish and I need to loft out of the gate on house shots. Now that USBC is pretty much anti-oil, you will need to make your own hold by lofting. Even on crazy long patterns you need to loft because of how much oil a surfaced up reactive ball eats. And Mo is spot on about college bowling scholarships.
lane shined is the most surface I'm using on rec shot if my mechanics and timing are perfect and I'm catching it all at the bottom I shell down to a weaker and polished rock before we even start.
excellent now where and how do you find a Ball Driller that knows this? Do the one you trust know all this? been bowling for 45 yrs . now finding it harder to find a driller. Older Lefty havent been able to bowl down and in in years cause the balls are so strong it has made me move way right and send it out . Not hitting consistent enough . i know its the lines l am trying to play . but forced too . balls are hooking way to much and when l change surface they skid way to much
I really need to find a PSO that will find my PAP, tilt, etc. Have bought 5 balls from him (including Conspiracy and Squatch) and he has never checked my stats. Not sure if it would make a difference in my game but would like to know this info. I know my speed is about 17 (2.2 seconds last I checked it) and about 300-325 revs. All of my balls are drilled pin just above the ring finger with the MB kicked about 1.5" from the thumb. The Squatch is the same (no MB) with the CG slightly off the grip centerline. My Kingpin is the only one drilled slightly different. The pin is kicked out about 1/2" away from my ring finger. I don't know of any other PSO's around here that can check me. As far as I know my PSO has never checked anyone. I know he has a Pro-Sect and Armadillo. Seems he drills all balls similar to mine. He is a very hi-rev bowler with a 225 average but not sure if he checks his own or even knows how to.
300 everynite . yes, before l retired to NC . bowled out of Westgate Lanes in Brockton . My last year in the 3 man top league there were . over 25-30 . 300.s . it is stupid takes the skill out of the game . now l bowl in NC and the house pattern is 37 feet . only 5 300s last year . that is why people that toss multiple 300s on their house lanes are suck at spare shooting . or blame the conditions when they are avg . 230 plus . bring back the shorter patterns and put the skill back into it
@@chriskelly509 i think so, but USBC wanted to get more people into bowling for fun, so high scores make it that way, now you have guys avg 230+ on house shots with the bombs they are buying in the proshop, they get pissed and blame everyhting else when they cant avg that. like to see these so called good bowlers bowl on 80s and 90s conditions, when l started avg 175 first year in 82, then thru that word practice got up to 210 for number of years . 8 or so years ago, with the house shot up in Mass where l bowled for 40 yrs, l was bowling just one nite a week 3 games and avg 228. now down here in NC retired l bowl one nite a week but the house shot is only 37 foot makes you put a preference on accuracy and speed technique. avg. 195. league is very competitive l think the top avg right now is 215
@@charlesgerlach7059 here on a house shot I can get high scores but on other lanes that are extremely dry 160 is a good score. In my area lanes very everyday. Just depends on where ya go, but they for sure make it easy on league night or before a local tournament.
I personally think the bowling technology is out of control. We should have stuck to plastic and urethane. Now we have balls that basically do all the work. I guess that's what happens when these kids who grew up all getting a trophy develop bowling balls
What impact does a longer pin to pap have in terms of where the tape will transition ? Would a longer pin to pap, say 5” just mean that the max flare layout would be more like versatile one ?
I have a surelock with a hole in the side does this make my ball illegal now i bought this ball and it was drilled 2yrs ago way before this rule was announced. Im not gunna just throw my ball away costed me 250 dollars i know i could have ordered one online for cheaper and had it drilled.
Im not plugging my counter balance hole up in my surelock it didnt hook for shit without the balance hole the way the guy drilled it.. he added a hole and it read the lane way earlier it hooks like crazy but doesnt make me a better bowler either so i dont see why the point of this rule is going to be put into place
@@cryptonator1988 After August 1, 2020, all bowling balls used in certified competition can no longer have balance holes. It doesn't matter if your ball was drilled with a balance hole two years or 20 years before the rule change, it will not be grandfathered in. You'll have to plug the balance hole in your Sure Lock or you can't use it in certified competition, period. If you're worried about how it will react after the balance hole is plugged, then plug the entire ball and redrill it to get a reaction more to your liking that's still within the new rule. There's nothing wrong with plugging and redrilling an entire ball. So what if it looks weird? Does it still strike a lot? The rules have changed. If we don't follow them, we can't compete. Simple as that.
When will we see the new cores? I just checked and one of my Symetrical balls is pin up and one is pin down. The pin down I am having trouble with. I am sure this does not surprise you. Also, I am 77 with 5 1/4 by 3/8up and very little axis. This is why I am looking forward to Radical's new cores to see which will replace the Tyrant. Thanks as always for you insight and a reminder why I did poorly in Math classes.
I bowl at a center with twister bowling pins you tend to leave a lot of 9 pins can designing a lay out let the ball Drive less as it's going through the pin deck so that you eliminate the possibility of leaving in 9 pin I do not leave that many 9 pins on wooden pins and it's not the oil condition at the house it is the bowling pin characteristic that causes this
Are the layouts the same for EMI Symmetrical and Asymmetrical balls? With Symmetrical balls without a balance hole what does the layout 70 x 4.5 x 70 do, if anything?
High VAL = slower transition from hook to roll. medium high pin to pap = lower flare potential. higher drilling angle = longer skid phase. This layout is to tame the ball reaction for a rev dominant player and/or dryer lane condition.
These videos kind of piss me off because Mo shows how laying out a ball properly with a thumb hole really changes ball motion but some people are still out there changing rules to pick on no-thumb bowlers. Really, you think throwing a ball backwards is something to worry about?
if that were only still true... just a cursory look at league play anywhere in the country will tell you what never would have worked for a high average bowler before now is completely normal and in fact is the majority of the unathletic silliness you will see out there
I feel like I really missed something between 49:00 and 53:40 when he was talking about urethane and short pin layouts. I've heard in a dozen different places, including from Mo himself here, that urethane absorbs no oil, and that it just drags oil down the lane. But then, why does his slide say that urethane balls lose hook more quickly and have to be sanded? And, right at 52:20, he says that urethane balls lose hook "because they fill up with oil"... I am missing something here...
He meant that the cover gets covered in oil. He's right when he said true urethane balls don't absorb oil. Urethane balls lose hook because when you throw them down the lane, the oil it picks up doesn't get absorbed into the cover, which means it sits on the cover which gives the ball less traction with each ball thrown, which in effect means less and less hook with the more shots thrown with it. Short pin reactives will absorb oil, meaning that we get a fresh cover every shot that is ready to bsorb the oil and will have a much more repeatable performance.
The thing with urethane is that it DOES absorb oil...on the heads and pines which then gets transferred to the ball itself. This is because urethane is a different kind of porous than resin is. Kinda makes me wish they brought back particle coverstocks, those balls were wild but you needed to clean them after every game or else they would die haha
@@AverageLeagueHack, I don't have a problem hooking the ball. It's not a huge hook, and I can't play on the left side of the lane, but it definitely hooks. That said before I learned to do it (took two years) it rolled way too long. And all my balls require surface.
In my personal op-pinion, I've been bowling for 30 yrs,., bowling is no longer a fair sport. To make it equal with only the bowlers skill to determine their score, the balls should all be made the same. There should be a standard. The way it is now the bowler with the most advanced ball will have the advantage considering both bowlers are equal. What if they made baseballs the way they make bowling balls? It is no longer as much about skill as it is about how expensive a ball you have.
I dunno about that. Most of my equipment is at least 5 years old and I average about 220 on a house shot. I've thrown about thirty 700 series with my Evil Siege, a ball that is a decade old. It isn't "advanced" at all. I mean I enjoyed how bowling was before urethane came out in the 1980s as well: Nothing but plastic and rubber, may the most accurate bowler win. Would it be more "fair" that way? Who knows.
That's bs. You can buy a really aggressive ball online(that's older) for half of what the new stuff will cost you. Newer just means that. It's new. Sure some stuff is cool but if you cant afford it there are slightly older options that work just as good. Remember it's not the ball that makes you good. If that was the case everyone would buy the 200 dollar ball and average 250.
RIP Mo. You will definitely be missed.
I feel like I come back to this video just to listen again once a month.
Ditto
I always like a person that backs up what he says with math and science. In my opinion Mo was the 1st and continues to be the best at doing this.
Bowlers who don't use an extra hole will have an advantage.
@@ninoc29 hahahaah, that advantage being they will not have to buy yet another ball... this time asymmetric in order to see the same reaction. Even Mo has trouble tongue in check of course arguing that that part is bad for him... though of course he hints that the entire exercise in misguided futility that is USBC regulation is rarely effective or logical
It was a pleasure to meet Mo in person this afternoon. He's a real good guy who really enjoys helping others. He was at Circle Bowl!
This is a" BIG" Mo Monday, here!
My brother got into college through bowling. Mo is not wrong in the least about that.
Mo looks great for 77 and is sharp as a tack!!!
I love this class or video I keep watching it because still today I’ve found some pro shops still don’t know or do what Mo, has laid out
I feel like I come back every 3-6 months and rewatch the video, lmao. Learn something new every time.
hardest thing l have had to learn after 40 yrs of bowling is not lift thru the shot with the fingers but hit down on the ball, work in progress big time
Radical Mo!
Thanks again for the great information. It was a pleasure to meet you at Tinley Park Bowl. Looking forward to trying this information.
1:06:15 Also: Know when to loft. Protip, it is MUCH earlier than most think, my RPMs are only 280ish and I need to loft out of the gate on house shots. Now that USBC is pretty much anti-oil, you will need to make your own hold by lofting. Even on crazy long patterns you need to loft because of how much oil a surfaced up reactive ball eats. And Mo is spot on about college bowling scholarships.
lane shined is the most surface I'm using on rec shot if my mechanics and timing are perfect and I'm catching it all at the bottom I shell down to a weaker and polished rock before we even start.
Polish up or weaken up your hand? Just thinking aloud.
excellent now where and how do you find a Ball Driller that knows this? Do the one you trust know all this? been bowling for 45 yrs . now finding it harder to find a driller. Older Lefty havent been able to bowl down and in in years cause the balls are so strong it has made me move way right and send it out . Not hitting consistent enough . i know its the lines l am trying to play . but forced too . balls are hooking way to much and when l change surface they skid way to much
I love sanding my “thane” every day
Awesome video Mo! Answered all my questions! Thanks so much!
I miss Mo. 😢😢
I really need to find a PSO that will find my PAP, tilt, etc. Have bought 5 balls from him (including Conspiracy and Squatch) and he has never checked my stats. Not sure if it would make a difference in my game but would like to know this info. I know my speed is about 17 (2.2 seconds last I checked it) and about 300-325 revs. All of my balls are drilled pin just above the ring finger with the MB kicked about 1.5" from the thumb. The Squatch is the same (no MB) with the CG slightly off the grip centerline. My Kingpin is the only one drilled slightly different. The pin is kicked out about 1/2" away from my ring finger. I don't know of any other PSO's around here that can check me. As far as I know my PSO has never checked anyone. I know he has a Pro-Sect and Armadillo. Seems he drills all balls similar to mine. He is a very hi-rev bowler with a 225 average but not sure if he checks his own or even knows how to.
40:35 if I have to contort my shoulder like that to be as good as that kid, I'm going back to Wii bowling.
lol his shoulder should actually be much lower too haha
I actually know Marcus. He is an amazing bowler. It’s crazy to watch him bowl in person
Marcus is just a "kid", but he's very GOOD "kid".
Welcome back.
Interesting to learn about the affect a larger and deeper thumb has. My question, what affect does drilling the fingers holes deeper have ?
The opposite. It will take away differential in most cases and tame the ball down.
@@RadicalBowling Unless you are a Full Roller using a Full Roller layout, then it will increase differential.
Now I need to know how bad it is to put the pin in the ring finger. Since pin down sym are not good.
300 everynite . yes, before l retired to NC . bowled out of Westgate Lanes in Brockton . My last year in the 3 man top league there were . over 25-30 . 300.s . it is stupid takes the skill out of the game . now l bowl in NC and the house pattern is 37 feet . only 5 300s last year . that is why people that toss multiple 300s on their house lanes are suck at spare shooting . or blame the conditions when they are avg . 230 plus . bring back the shorter patterns and put the skill back into it
They need to limit how strong a ball can be.
@@chriskelly509 i think so, but USBC wanted to get more people into bowling for fun, so high scores make it that way, now you have guys avg 230+ on house shots with the bombs they are buying in the proshop, they get pissed and blame everyhting else when they cant avg that. like to see these so called good bowlers bowl on 80s and 90s conditions, when l started avg 175 first year in 82, then thru that word practice got up to 210 for number of years . 8 or so years ago, with the house shot up in Mass where l bowled for 40 yrs, l was bowling just one nite a week 3 games and avg 228. now down here in NC retired l bowl one nite a week but the house shot is only 37 foot makes you put a preference on accuracy and speed technique. avg. 195. league is very competitive l think the top avg right now is 215
@@charlesgerlach7059 here on a house shot I can get high scores but on other lanes that are extremely dry 160 is a good score. In my area lanes very everyday. Just depends on where ya go, but they for sure make it easy on league night or before a local tournament.
I personally think the bowling technology is out of control. We should have stuck to plastic and urethane. Now we have balls that basically do all the work. I guess that's what happens when these kids who grew up all getting a trophy develop bowling balls
What impact does a longer pin to pap have in terms of where the tape will transition ? Would a longer pin to pap, say 5” just mean that the max flare layout would be more like versatile one ?
I have a surelock with a hole in the side does this make my ball illegal now i bought this ball and it was drilled 2yrs ago way before this rule was announced. Im not gunna just throw my ball away costed me 250 dollars i know i could have ordered one online for cheaper and had it drilled.
Im not plugging my counter balance hole up in my surelock it didnt hook for shit without the balance hole the way the guy drilled it.. he added a hole and it read the lane way earlier it hooks like crazy but doesnt make me a better bowler either so i dont see why the point of this rule is going to be put into place
@@cryptonator1988 After August 1, 2020, all bowling balls used in certified competition can no longer have balance holes. It doesn't matter if your ball was drilled with a balance hole two years or 20 years before the rule change, it will not be grandfathered in. You'll have to plug the balance hole in your Sure Lock or you can't use it in certified competition, period. If you're worried about how it will react after the balance hole is plugged, then plug the entire ball and redrill it to get a reaction more to your liking that's still within the new rule. There's nothing wrong with plugging and redrilling an entire ball. So what if it looks weird? Does it still strike a lot? The rules have changed. If we don't follow them, we can't compete. Simple as that.
8-1-20 the rule changes ,,but just get it plugged
9 people are still using balance holes
Dat Mo is smart!
Very!!
When will we see the new cores? I just checked and one of my Symetrical balls is pin up and one is pin down. The pin down I am having trouble with. I am sure this does not surprise you. Also, I am 77 with 5 1/4 by 3/8up and very little axis. This is why I am looking forward to Radical's new cores to see which will replace the Tyrant. Thanks as always for you insight and a reminder why I did poorly in Math classes.
I bowl at a center with twister bowling pins you tend to leave a lot of 9 pins can designing a lay out let the ball Drive less as it's going through the pin deck so that you eliminate the possibility of leaving in 9 pin I do not leave that many 9 pins on wooden pins and it's not the oil condition at the house it is the bowling pin characteristic that causes this
Stretch the Pin to Pap by 1/4 or 1/2" or stretch the VAL angle by 5-10 degrees.
Use more surface to bring the hook closer to you and to smooth out the backend some more.
Are the layouts the same for EMI Symmetrical and Asymmetrical balls? With Symmetrical balls without a balance hole what does the layout 70 x 4.5 x 70 do, if anything?
High VAL = slower transition from hook to roll. medium high pin to pap = lower flare potential. higher drilling angle = longer skid phase. This layout is to tame the ball reaction for a rev dominant player and/or dryer lane condition.
The suggested layouts are for 5" PAP. What to do for 4" over and 1/8" up PAP. Thanks.
Still use the same layout and only adjust if the pin will be too close to your fingers.
subtract 15 degrees from the core angle and use the same PAP distances.
@@s1mon72 The one and only? Hey Mr. Tapp. How are you doing?
@@Monk-Amani. I am very good, thank you!
Being that the layouts mentioned are for a 5" PAP, what type of changes to the angles do you make for someone that's almost 6" PAP
you are approaching full roller... where the layout options are indeed very limited. The issue being flaring across finger holes (thumb as well)
I have a pin down symetrical I hate it.....
mo knows
We couldn't get a straight answer at league, but what if you are a 2 handed bowler that uses the thumb hole?
If the thumb is in, then it's fine. If no thumb is used, you have to plug it August 1st, 2020.
2 hand/no thumb can only have holes for the fingers by August 1st or else the ball is illegal.
These videos kind of piss me off because Mo shows how laying out a ball properly with a thumb hole really changes ball motion but some people are still out there changing rules to pick on no-thumb bowlers. Really, you think throwing a ball backwards is something to worry about?
So, placement of the feet and execution are the most important things. OK, doesn't that apply to 99 percent of sports?
if that were only still true... just a cursory look at league play anywhere in the country will tell you what never would have worked for a high average bowler before now is completely normal and in fact is the majority of the unathletic silliness you will see out there
pins on the ground,,, funny as hell
I feel like I really missed something between 49:00 and 53:40 when he was talking about urethane and short pin layouts.
I've heard in a dozen different places, including from Mo himself here, that urethane absorbs no oil, and that it just drags oil down the lane. But then, why does his slide say that urethane balls lose hook more quickly and have to be sanded? And, right at 52:20, he says that urethane balls lose hook "because they fill up with oil"...
I am missing something here...
He meant that the cover gets covered in oil. He's right when he said true urethane balls don't absorb oil. Urethane balls lose hook because when you throw them down the lane, the oil it picks up doesn't get absorbed into the cover, which means it sits on the cover which gives the ball less traction with each ball thrown, which in effect means less and less hook with the more shots thrown with it. Short pin reactives will absorb oil, meaning that we get a fresh cover every shot that is ready to bsorb the oil and will have a much more repeatable performance.
The thing with urethane is that it DOES absorb oil...on the heads and pines which then gets transferred to the ball itself. This is because urethane is a different kind of porous than resin is. Kinda makes me wish they brought back particle coverstocks, those balls were wild but you needed to clean them after every game or else they would die haha
@@SirJoelsuf1 I miss particle coverstock balls as well. Had my highest series with one.
God I wish I this simple minded artist could understand this. All I want to do is figure out how to put a little 3 ball arsenal together for league.
First question are you rev or speed dominant?
@@AverageLeagueHack, not sure as my pro shop doesn't provide the service. But I think my rev rate is about 250 and speed is 14 - 15.
@@machinethesun9243 Let's try it this way. When you struggle, does the ball curve too much or too little?
@@AverageLeagueHack, I don't have a problem hooking the ball. It's not a huge hook, and I can't play on the left side of the lane, but it definitely hooks. That said before I learned to do it (took two years) it rolled way too long. And all my balls require surface.
And thank you for working me thru this.
2 Handed Layouts the same as the 9 posted?
th-cam.com/video/GTB_Edv8obE/w-d-xo.html
Check this out.
Standing on a fresh 500
In my personal op-pinion, I've been bowling for 30 yrs,., bowling is no longer a fair sport. To make it equal with only the bowlers skill to determine their score, the balls should all be made the same. There should be a standard. The way it is now the bowler with the most advanced ball will have the advantage considering both bowlers are equal. What if they made baseballs the way they make bowling balls? It is no longer as much about skill as it is about how expensive a ball you have.
I dunno about that. Most of my equipment is at least 5 years old and I average about 220 on a house shot. I've thrown about thirty 700 series with my Evil Siege, a ball that is a decade old. It isn't "advanced" at all. I mean I enjoyed how bowling was before urethane came out in the 1980s as well: Nothing but plastic and rubber, may the most accurate bowler win. Would it be more "fair" that way? Who knows.
That's bs. You can buy a really aggressive ball online(that's older) for half of what the new stuff will cost you. Newer just means that. It's new. Sure some stuff is cool but if you cant afford it there are slightly older options that work just as good. Remember it's not the ball that makes you good. If that was the case everyone would buy the 200 dollar ball and average 250.
Throwing darts against...
PG term was "throwing darts against the wall."
one of the most stupid rules the usbc ever came up with along with not being to put rosin on the ball even if you wipe it off