I remember back in the eighties we saw a couple of session guitarists who used to turn up with a peddle board and a DI box to plug into our desk. They would give me a lead to plug into the big studio desk, switch on, and there it would be. Great sound. They were rarer then (people were wed to amps) but they proved, even all those years ago before modelers, profilers, or digital emulation, that you could get the sound the client needed without lugging a ton load of equipment. Perhaps the rest of the industry has spent the last 40 years catching up?
I just bought another tube amp. I love simulations, they allow me to play everyday. Listening through TH-cam videos they even sound almost the same, but a loud amp in front of you is still matchless.
For sure but how practical is that for people who don’t play live and live in apartments? I think what a lot of amp lovers tend to forget is nobody is in the position their in financially or logistically and yet there is this inherent need to burst some bedroom musician’s bubble by saying how their set up is inferior because it doesn’t have this indescribable “it” factor.
Just plug the modeller/profiler on a cranked power amp and a cab, and you get the exact same result. The pre-amp (or its model) is what makes the tone, not the loudness.
@@andythefrenchy8026 +1 on this. I do it all the time. A headphone or a studio monitor just wouldn’t have the power and feel of a 10 inch speaker. Plug your modeler to a good 10 or 12 inch FRFR, be BRAVE to cut ultra high frequencies a bit more than what you’re comfortable. Listen by ear, not by what the Hz tells you. Some amp models really need to be cut down to around 6K then incrementally up the treble from there. It really helps to get rid of the ultra high frequency “stiffness” that tires the ear. Just my 2 cents tho ✌️
@@andythefrenchy8026 I'm curious though, being new to this area myself (I own two great modeling amps) - What is DRIVING the cab in that scenario? The ToneX is not providing anything in terms of wattage, right? What is pushing the speakers?
I was an early adopter of the axe-fx, and like a mini tone chasers, I tried cabs, and FRFR speakers, active systems, passive systems. I played three different iterations of that modeler for over a decade. And you know what? I’m back to tube amps. And a lot of the celebrity musicians who were into modelers are also back to tube amps. Maybe your love affair will fade in a decade as well. For many of us, there is an immediacy that just cannot be matched, no matter what the technology. I’m not really speaking of tube amps. I am really speaking of analog amps versus digital modelers, because that immediacy can be there with a solid-state amp as well.
Oh man...thank you for saying that. Same for me. Past four five years all digital ...still use digital daily...but tube amp is where everything is really at. I hate saying it on the internet because of butthurt folks who can't stand another's opinion. And generally people say....they SOUND the same pretty much and you can't tell. Okay true. They don't feel like a tube amp. They, just, don't. The in person experience and feel is day and night. Any good guitar player will admit to this before they go back to using their NDSP plugins or Kemper etc. Pros and cons of both, digital v tube....but tube is tube is tube for a reason. Yeah yeah yeah....they "sound" basically the same, AGAIN. But sound is only one of many factors. Just my humble opinion after 17 years of playing....I'm gonna use my digital stuff this afternoon for a jam myself. But tube is still king today. Glad to see the tech evolving
For recording or anything big enough that i need to go through PA anyway, digital and modelers for sure. For small venues or basement jams though, nothing beats the feeling of the way a good tube amp fills up a space.
@@ehsanhaq155 okay, why do they don’t feel like tube amps? Mostly because you play modelers through headphones or at low volume… that’s the feeling difference. You couldn’t feel a difference between a modeler going into a real cab and a tube amp (at same volume). It all depends on people and needs. Id love to have real cabs and mic to experiment with mic combos and placement. But I live in an apartment and modelers do 99% of the job, and almost 100% on recordings. Feeling is not an argument, it’s the closest thing to placebo you could argue… I bet if I could A/B modeler and tube in the room, going through the same cab you couldn’t hear the difference. But sure do what makes you want to play guitar! Im jealous you can have all this gear!!!
I keep saying this: modeling is imitating the real thing. Nothing wrong with that but in my experience getting a good tone out of a modeler takes a lot of tweaking whereas when I plug my guitar into my low wattage tube amp, slap a 57 on the speaker and plug into recorder/daw I am immediately getting a good sound! Move the mike a little, twiddle the eq on the amp a bit, done. Works every time. Why waste time and money on modelers and IRs?
A low watt tube amp can be had second hand for $€100-200 . A brand new Sm57 is around $€ 100. So for 200 or 300 $€ you can record a real tube tone with a real microphone.
Here’s where that notion falls apart. Have you ever mic’ed an amp and went to record it, especially in an apartment? Say you got a great tone in the room, now you go to mic it. First issue you run into living in an apartment is isolation. Often you have to fight against your air conditioning, your refrigerator fans turning on, people slamming car doors outside, neighbors with noisy kids, the sound of your pick hitting the strings because you can’t turn the amp up loud enough to get an optimal signal-to-noise ratio. That’s even if your cab is in another room. If you have a two bedroom, you have better chances of getting at least SOME isolation, but you’ll still have to contend with some of the other issues, like the neighbors. Second, your mic choice and placement is crucial. It takes a shitload of experimentation (meaning CONSTANTLY getting up going back and forth!) to find out what works for a mix, and often times, the majority of people are dialing-in their mic’ed tones without any sort of reference point. So what happens is you end up having to go reposition the mic to get a tone that works for a MIX. It’s one thing to get a great sound on its own, it’s another to get it to actually sound good being layered with other instruments. Say you never get a tone that sits-well, it’s possible your mic choice isn’t optimal, now you gotta spend MORE money to experiment with different mics. I’ve been down that road, many times With modelers, instead of having to go back and forth to do all this stuff blind, all the control is at your feet. You don’t have to worry about isolation or signal-to-noise. If your tone is too bright, you can fix it right there. If it doesn’t have enough this or that, you can fix it right there. Then there’s the fact that so many places want little or no stage volume…whatcha gonna do then? Lug your 42lb tube head, a full pedalboard and a Two Notes Captor to the gig…or an 8lb Helix that is fully self-contained and can make tones that are indistinguishable to the real thing in a mix? Not interested in bashing anyone, but a lot of tube snobs don’t think their views through, and it’s clear many of them don’t actually gig.
As an owner of a Line6 Helix Floor and someone who used to own a half stack 5150 set up, I'll take the Helix over anything. What you said about "changing amps mid song" 100% true. I'm no tone god, but being able to use two different heads, set up a snapshot with whatever combos of pedals and gain and EQ settings per snapshot is such an insane thing to be able to do as a guitar player.
it seems the ability to actually rock two real amps to switch between on a gig is something thats reserved for big name artists or people that have a gig and has almost all the room reserved for them, i.e. a stadium or even a church. You can't even rock one real amp on a small venue without contesting the real estate being used by everything else. With a stadium, you probably have room to put your amp somewhere AND cover it to mute it, AND mic it.
@@cheeseUout It's not even really that. Most bigger artists run big cabs that are miked into PA's but are using Kempers or something for their tones. HOWEVER, you gotta remember that people (like me) who use these modelers aren't playing one style of music and going for one tone. I play metal and pop punk and blues and all of that and the modeler gives me the ability to get ANY tone I won't and I'm not tied to one thing.
I've been one of those "valve purist" people for over 15 years, and after owning around 10 valve amps over the years, have been very impressed with the sound quality and realism coming from modelers and profilers released in the past 5 years or so (at least based on what I've heard in TH-cam demos). My introduction to amp sims was all of the Positive Grid plugin products on pc and iOS. These plugins keep getting realer and realer! I'm not gigging currently, so I can't justify the purchase of one of these hardware units that you have demonstrated, but I understand why people would find them convenient, practical, and flexible in both live and studio applications. When I go back to gigging, I think I'd like to try going direct using a selection of amp heads in conjunction with a reactive load/IR unit like the Captor X. I'm looking forward to downloading Tonex on my pc and trying that out!
First, I have to say that for only playing for eight years, your playing is great and you’ve got a natural feel. To my ear, the Dream 65 did a much better job than the Tonex in replicating the Princeton sound.
@@stickman55100 I hear you. I just have a stash of vintage amps, most of which don't gig so well anymore. Some of them are quite rare, I'd like to get them profiled before it's too late. For that reason the tonex is attractive to me. Don't get me wrong, the UAD stuff sounds amazing. I'd love to acquire some of their pedals as well. Particularly the delay and reverb pedals in this pedal series. But if you are looking for bang for the buck plus the ability to profile amps and pedals then you'd be hard pressed to find a better deal with the same quality.
@@ramonw9430 I think you’re definitely on the right track to profile those as soon as possible. That’s a brilliant way to preserve their unique tonal qualities. Then, sell the amps before they deteriorate and depreciate in value.
I guess I never thought about if you (i assume) are plugging into computer to get it then the pedal is a super super viable option for a DI type achievement of that sound
Well done Mike! I've been intrigued as well by this whole topic, and have gone down many a rabbit hole on this subject. As a 56 year old guitar player, sometimes it's a drag carrying the amp and cabinet around [although mine is pretty compact and light PRS MT-15 amp with an Orange PPC112 60W cabinet], I'm now looking at either a modeler or profiler. Keep up the good work! - RT
After 3 months, using Tonex on PC, I sold a lot of equipment and bought the pedal version. It is worth mentioning that I had used the plugin with my pair of simple monitors, the Edifier R2600, which I love. Then, suddenly, I had the opportunity to buy the Nux PA-50, for a great price. It's an FRFR box and, as much as the Tonex, this Nux has surprised me more every day. Here's the tip! Objectively: for more than two decades, albeit in an amateurish way, I have been a purist. Over time, I've had Super Reverb, Bassman 59', Vox AC-15, Dr Z and others. I kept the Deluxe Reverb, and I still think it's the best amp you can get - next to the Princeton. My whole "school" comes from the 60s/70s sounds, from Neil Young to CSN, from Stones to Zeppelin and so on. So, obviously, when I started immersing myself in Tonex I was looking for familiar timbres, blackface, tweed, AC-30, plexis etc. What did I think? SENSATIONAL! I highlight the following points: -excellent dynamics; more than listening I feel what I play with Tonex -The PRESENCE and DEPHT knobs use in real time, and are perfect for fine-tuning all profiles/presets -the Tonex matches my pedals perfectly well, which ends up multiplying the colors/tones/possibilities of every overdrive and fuzz pedal I own by hundreds - they obviously react differently on every amp It takes work to adjust everything, it's not even remotely plug and play. Tired, distracts the focus, hurts the spine, but... in the end, even though I still think that nothing will replace the feeling of playing the Fender Dleuxe Reverb at volumes 5 or 6, I think the Tonex is absurdly realistic, useful and pleasurable. In the right hands! Besides, let's face it, it's very difficult to get the best sounds out of tube amps. Rare are the times I could open their volumes and get the sounds I always had in mind. In that sense, and much more than simulators, in my opinion, Tonex is a mother! Congratulations on the video, all the best and sound!
I used real amps only once. Then changed to modellers and ended up with a Kemper. Just sold it and bought a Headrush Prime. Being capable of modelling, profiling and having vocal chains/effects also (incl. Antares Autotune) - dream device. As a singer and guitar player this is my brand new creativity tool to go. Don't have much experience regarding live gigs yet. And to mention the downsides also: within the first week of owning this device I had a reboot in the middle of a practice session. Tone was suddenly clean (at least not gone) and came back after that reboot. Don't want to experience this on stage. But still this is the next level of creativity for me. I sold the Kemper now and I will also sell my Fender Rumble Studio 40 bass amp, because there are some decent bass profiles too. So as a looper artist and composer - I use a Boss 500 together with a mic, bass, guitar and a keyboard for all other instruments - I just need the Prime and an instrument switch to loop guitars and basses. I'm happy now. I wish the Prime had more looping capabilities and more inputs, so I could plug in Keys, Bass, Guitar and Mic directly into the Prime and also get rid of the Boss. But it's just a computer, maybe one day they add more features.
I've seen people complaining on the Line 6 forum that they hear artifacts that they can't dial out, but then go back to their tube amp and notice the same thing for the very first time. There is a 3D quality to real amps that modelers just can't replicate. I've always said for years that modelers sound like the sound is pressed up against a plate of glass. It's like they do the 2D (x + y axis) really well, but there's a depth, or z axis component in real amps (not a lows, mids, and highs thing) with all of the layered artifacts that modelers can't replicate and as a result, just end up compressing those artifacts into the 2D spectrum. It actually has nothing to do with tubes vs solid state. It's the interaction between how the output transformer throws the notes and the interplay with the mechanical action of the speaker cone. That's where all the feel and openness comes from, not from EQ. Modelers will never replicate that, but can get kind of close. The concept in high-end audio is called soundstage. IRs try to replicate the feel with EQ, delays and ambience, but it's never going to feel the same. The sound will always have a fizzle or crackle to it with the modeled artifacts sounding pushed to the forefront.
I have an old mini laptop and audio interface I'm going to convert into an amp profiler/modeller using NAM. Something I small enough to put on my board. I tried NAM out recently and decided I have to do this. Some of the profiles are perfect for running my pedals into but then I want to be able to switch to a high gain profile to play metal. It's too flexible to pass up if you like playing different styles of music. I love real amps and being in the room with a cranked one, but buying multiple real amps is just not reasonable for most people. Doesn't matter if it's digital when it's that good!
Dude you started the video with a fantastic smooth lead tone and lovely playing and not a hard fizzy scratchy tone like so many Amp Modelers have so for that I am more than happy to subscribe!
If it sounds good, it is good. And I think a Hybrid Rig offers some of the best Tonal Options. If you have a Profiler or Modeler, you can place the output into the Return of a Tube Amp’s Effect Loops. Then you have the Preamp of the Profiler/Modeler in front of your Amps Power Section. No need to an FRFR Speaker or Studio Monitors if you have and good Amp Combo or Speaker Cabinet.
That's what I do with the GT 100 with send/return. I have a Peavy VK and on the GT 100 I Set up a patch where I use the preamp on the Peavy whenever I want, which is definitely a little bit richer and "in your face" than the preamps on the GT 100.
The Dream has 6 cab size options that use different classic mics. There are also some tone “mods” as well. The versatility is bonkers. It’s fun to jump through some settings and dial in the tone you want
@@crazywisdom2 still bashing away with amp and pedals with no inclination to change. Using a Quilter US CUB amp. Loud enough to peel the paint from the walls and equally as good with quiet practice or headphones. It’s the only amp you’ll ever need
Analog versus Digital has been going on for a while now and things have just gotten better. I started playing before there was an internet. I would run a Carvin DC150 Stereo with one output going to my analog rig and the other going to my digital rig. Sure, it sounded great but it was a lot of gear to lug around. Now days I use a Les Paul or a Stratocaster with a volume pedal through a Fender Mustang III. I have been accused of using a tube amp. I love being able to dial in the British 60's sound and then being able to go balls to the wall. For less money and weight I can get several convincing amp sounds. The one thing that I've learned over the years is to keep it simple. And never think that you can get those last few stripps of grass during an electrical storm.
I use a Crate 150 amp head with 2 columns of stereo speakers one on top of the other. The Crate features a stereo output so I can play in stereo. I like choosing my own speakers as opposed to what comes in a self contained amplifier. Cheers from eastern TN
What eveyone needs to remember is that plugin modelers are modelling a close mic'd cab. Basically what you hear through the headphones, monitors, venue PA system, or on the recording. What they aren't modelling is a physical cab sitting in a room with you. That will always sound different because it's a cab sitting physically in the room with you. That's not what modelers are looking at, it's literally impossible to get a one-to-one capture/recording of what you hear from a cab in the room with you because your ears are not a microphone. But whether it's on a studio recording or live, what you're hearing is a close mic'd cab being sent into a mix or PA system. Not a physical cab sending sound to your ears. This is where current modelers and physical gear have a negligible difference if any at all. Any guitar tone you've heard on a recording, album or live isn't coming directly from a cab. It's coming from a microphone recording the cab.
This is wrong, because for years many of the various emulation systems *do* model the sound through the mic. Which is the opposite of the picture you're painting. That said I've never been that impressed and would only use a digital amp sim if it was free, I needed the sound, and no valve amps were available. There is another solution to not having a valve amp available: Acoustic guitar.
Which is why the sell frfr's. I bought the FR-10 to pair with my ToneMaster Pro and it literally sounds and FEELS like the amp that is being modeled. It's actually mind-blowing.
I’ll take you further down the rabbit hole. The 4th option, anything that sounds good. Right now companies are largely focused on modeling actual amps. But that assumes that the only sounds an artist wants or needs is coming out of some amp that already exists. The next step is guitar processing that ignores the amp completely. Imaginary devices and unorthodox signal processing. Whatever sounds good.
My biggest step recently was getting decent (budget) studio monitors instead of using headphones. I had always greatly preferred the amp to the headphone/modeler setup, but now it’s a dead heat. I can even set them loud enough to get feedback. The 5 inch drivers are missing a bit of low end that I get from the amp, but the experience is much closer than I thought it would be.
I prefer amps, but the convenience of modelers and profiles is great. I use a modeling amp and a couple of amp in a box type pedals, but I do miss having a good tube amp. Most of the time I use a nice clean channel on my amp, and use my Joyo American Sound (Fender amp in a box pedal) to get my base sound, then use my pedal board to take it wherever I need to. The joyo does a great job of catching the Fender vibe, I've had a few Fender amps and was very impressed with the sound of this pedal, especially considering the price.
I got the Tonex software, and adore it. I'm a bedroom player and I plug my interface in to my amp and get to play both and save tons of money. I'll never spend the money for a Trainwreck, Soldano, Dumble, Klon Centaur, Plexi, '65 Twin Reverb, etc. but with the Tonex I get to play them when I want. It's an amazing piece of software. I don't have the pedal, but again, don't need it. I don't gig.
I've found that a tube amp has a 'feel' that is very organic and I have yet to hear a modeler or profile match that. I haven't tried any of the more modern 'non-amp' approaches so I that could change my mind. I used to use a Boss Amp Factory (and that's really old so I think the newer units must be far superior) and I'd carefully add some compression to try and get closer to the amp's give and take. What I found, even with the older digital type amps is that, on stage, there is very little noticeable difference. Definitely nothing the audience could tell. In studio, though - that's a different story. I'm really looking forward to getting something like the TONEX because I'm really tired of hauling boat anchors (ahem... tube amps) around. Not to mention having to haul a second amp because you never know when the expensive tube amp might decide to carp out on you.
Lol. My real amps had carped out my amps too many times during my gigs and recording sessions through 80s, 90s, and 2000s. After hauling everywhere with my half-stack and 2x12 combo, is enough for me (Not to mentioned, it's also hurting my shoulder and lower back. Lol). Having a "feel" and "real" sound amp is great...BUT I will not miss it. Today, I really LOVING my current digital modelers (light, one small package, and having 200 amps in my pocket). "Fractal" saved my life. Lol.
I own the tone x after owning a kemper. It took me a few days to find the tones I liked on the tone x but once I found some tones I liked I haven’t searched for any other tones, the only reason I see to buy a kemper over a tone x is if you need an all in one unit with effects, or you need stage volume you can get a kemper with a power amp, but it’s hard to justify for the price difference. I don’t think you can go wrong with any digital unit now days, the UA stuff sounds great, tone x sounds great, line 6 sounds great, etc.
Top advice bro. Thanks a lot, I'm literally in the same boat. I came over recently to electrics from +20 years classical guitar. I'm on a katana mini, and was holding off getting either a boss katana artist combo or a top modeler... Going down this route ultimately, almost certainly going for a Line6 HX Stomp. liked subbed.🤘
The Dream 65 sounds a little brighter than the other two. The Tonex and the Princeton are very close. I bet there's an IR option on the Dream 65 that'd get it closer, but honestly I think it was my favorite sound! You're right about the learning curve, though that certainly isn't true of all modelers - if you choose something like an HX Stomp, there is a much steeper learning curve (but that is the price of flexibility)
I am neck deep in this topic i took a few years off from playing from about 2006 til 2020 and the world had changed in guitar world , i bought a helix and its took a year to finally figure it out in depth then i decided i loved the variety and amount of options then i realized i missed the amp in the room tone and bought a ENGL FB25 finally in last week i figured out the correct way to match my Helix to my stack and its heaven but of course now the profilers like tonex is hot and i may have to dive in there , i think theres value to all these formats if used correctly , great video and great playing new to your chanel
You are leaving out a major factor when discussing this topic. It’s not just about tone or sound. The way it responds is just as important as the way it sounds. A profiler/ modeler at bedroom volume and playing it live or in a band situation is two totally different things. When it comes to that give me a tube amp any day because nothing digital will ever be able to respond the way a tube amp does when being pushed into overdrive/distortion. I’ve actually found a happy medium with the Fender Superchamp x2 head. You’ve got digital modeling in the preamp and a completely tube power output.
I think there's a nice middle ground: Use an analog preamp with an IR cab sim. AMT makes an amazing series of tube preamp pedals called "Bricks" as well as some other tube preamp pedals. It's some impressive kit.
You can run the Headrush MX5 through the effects loop on an amp using the 4 cable method and bypass the Headrush amp sims while still choosing to include or exclude cab sim IRs as well. The modeling and effects on it are just as good as Neural DSP & Kemper in my opinion as well. Oh, and it is also one of the most affordable modelers that even lets you load in your own custom or purchased cab/speaker IR sims from anywhere else as well.
Yup this is something I've decided to try as well, I feel like picking dynamics on real tube might sound different than fully digital. See my other comment: th-cam.com/video/sbAHgZn9bao/w-d-xo.html&lc=UgxdLFF917wLEWlObut4AaABAg
The single thing that modellers lack is the breakup. Even today it's that elusive last thing that modellers can't get _quite right_ . That clean to breakup when digging in is the key
I have a Two Rock Bloomfield 50/100, a Mesa Boogie mk IIC+, and a Dream 65. I bought the Dream 65 as a convenience, but it's vanilla compared to the real deal. I've seen all the reviews, and for whatever reason I didn't get the same results. Maybe I should've bought the Ruby. I tried the Kemper in a store, but didn't impress me. When I bought the Boogie in the 80s, it was fire. I use to have a Paul Rivera modified Fender Reverb Deluxe; it was a great amp. The Dream doesn't come close. But budget-wise, I can see why some people would opt for it. The other thing is that I don't go on the road, so I don't need to sacrifice sound for that sort of convenience. The reason I got the Dream was that sometimes I don't want to fire up my rig to play with some idea. The downside for the Dream is no headphone jack... maybe should have gone for the Iridium.
I use a Quad Cortex and plugins on my PC. I love the sound of a real amp and they will always be around and important. But as someone without endless amounts of money, the profilers / modelers / plugins work very well. It's easier now to learn / play guitar than it ever has been and that should be celebrated.
The thing with profilers is that they are only as good as the profile you load into them. ToneX comes with a lot of perfectly serviceable profiles, but some of the aftermarket ones are staggeringly good in terms of both sound and feel, and that's coming from a hardcore tube amp lover. Definitely enjoying it a lot more than I did the Kemper I had.
I've been an Axe FX user for a long time, and I feel that with all the parameters it makes available to tweak, there isn't an amplifier out there that it can't emulate to 99% fidelity. And even if you never intend to muck around with all the "deep parameters" and just want to plug and play and turn a few knobs, just like with a physical amp, a modeler gives that to you as well.
The Kemper and Quad Cortex obviously do a lot more than the ToneX. But if all you want is an amp capture/profiler to take your amps with you, and you don’t need all the other effects built in, the ToneX is 1/5th the price and sounds fantastic. I love being able to use it with my normal pedalboard, and bring real amp captures from Matchless, Magnatone, Soldano, etc and even Dumbles. Super useful and cost effective. The Dream is great, but it’s the same price as the ToneX and only does one amp well. If you want 2-3 amps, the UA pedals will cost you almost as much as a real amp, whereas the ToneX stays the same price.
All of these options sound great. To most listeners it would be extremely difficult/next to impossible to tell exactly what option the artist used for their chosen tone on a recorded track. I think it comes down what tone inspires the artist the most. Of course practicality comes into play if you're hauling your rig around. I'm guessing a lot of players are probably willing to sacrifice a small amount of tone to save them time and their back when carrying around, setting up and breaking down their gear.
Good video! It’s all about preference and what kind of music is being played. I’ve tried all kinds of modelers/profilers. They’re fun and creatively amazing, but, as a mostly live player, I find that the tone sounds great at home when I’m setting it up, but changes when I’m in different size venues/stages every night. I can tweak my tube amps with a couple quick turns and I know how to get the tone I’m looking for quickly Vs having to tweak parameter through menus on the gig. I love all the digital stuff when I’m recording, but for live, it’s only tube amps. Rock on! Keep up the good work!
The UA amp pedals are great. I have the Ruby and the Woodrow, and they’re perfect for late night recording when I can’t use a real amp or even going into a clean amp they really do give your amp a new sound if you have the speaker emulation turned off.
@@amaturemusiciansand that's why you're called "amature". Because professionals (and decent amatures that are open) care about feeling, and importantly: a good audience that cares about music can feel whether you're vibing with the dynamic, whether you admit it or not. If the people you play to don't care whether you're feeling it, you could ask yourself whether you're the problem.
Profilers have their place. I use NAM and tonex to practice or do quick recordings. For bedroom playing, I'd agree, they're very close. Close enough to jam and have fun. But none of these replace an amplifier, especially when pushing a room.
Honestly if you want to push a room, it's still cheaper to buy an amp profiler/modeller then use a power amp. It's also more effective since you can find some nice quality clean power amps for pretty cheap
Personally I don’t hear enough of a difference to justify not using the tonex pedal. I’m super excited to check out one myself and get some hands on experience with it myself. Thanks for the video man!
I listened to the test on my monitor that I use live. The Princeton was warmer, much fuller and balanced, and felt good physically. The boxes didn't give the balanced frequencies, though maybe that could be tweaked better, sounded and felt like something was missing. Luckily people listen to the feel of the player and the music more than these things. It all reminds me of when the first CDs came out, crystal clear, but cold. I asked a DJ once how they compensated for this and he said we turn it up louder....
If I was still touring, I'd definately use a profiler of some sort. I used to tour with a rackmount guitar preamp set-up (Digitech TwinTube/Digitech DSP 128) and our tour rider specified at least one 100w tube amp half-stack w/an effects return. That was in 1997-99 - and worked very well. Gear has come a long way for sure. For recording, it's still a real Marshall or 5150 or Boogie, but it is fun to combine those with software amps.
I think physical gear is cool (I mean that's what is being simulated after all). But I highly doubt even pros could differentiate between recordings made with the latest sims in honest blind A/B testing. Especially in a mix.
I've been playing since 73....mostly SS amps and pedals till about 91 when I got a Korg A5 multiFX. Loved the simplicity of all the FX, but went the 100 pound Mesa head/cab and pedals route next 20 years. Today its a Boss GX-100 into a 2x10 ss combo I made. Light, loud, zero maintenance and very convincing tube tones without breaking the bank, although I do miss that Mesa sometimes.
As soon as I began to record original music… modeling is the only way I go. A few people say I’d sound better if I used a real amp but then it depends how I mic it. Cool video!😊
I think the thing to consider is under what circumstances you're playing. For home recording and quiet playing the modelers and profilers work great. Recording is a miked sound so an actual amp is not what is in a recording, it's a miked sound. For playing live it's extremely difficult to replicate the actual sound and response of an actual guitar amp. Without an amp, what you're hearing is just a miked sound of an amp. I can play either way but i definitely prefer an actual amp when playing live, un-miked and plenty loud. For home recording i wouldn't waste my time with an amp, i do it all direct, it's much easier and the results are the same
Nice video. I heard differences among the three sound sources but that doesn't mean any one of them were bad. In fact, I largely liked what I heard and I own a Princeton. When it comes to deciding which platform to use, my view is go with what easily sets one up for success. I love the Princeton amp because it is plug and play. Modeling is great, in my opinion, when it is like the UAD Dream: simply turn it on and dial in the knobs to taste. I like that a lot. On the other hand, I know people who love using something like the Line 6 Helix to build an entire rig from the ground up. Frankly, I don't enjoy tweaking that much and would rather spend my time playing. Turning to profiling, that world is its own animal. To create high-quality profiles, it takes good ears and professional gear to do right. The truth is most players who use profilers won't use the profiling function. Instead, they will search online user libraries or buy high-quality ones created by third parties. I personally don't want to sit around auditioning sound like that. At the end of the day, I think choices about gear center on the player's outlook AND his needs.
It’s really how important the difference is to you when you compare it to hauling one or two amplifiers or playing every gig with a different amp/cabinet/microphone combination. That simple.. nobody doubts that the real hing is better
I need a video with even more detail haha like I need someone to start at square one with this stuff, I’m just now making the switch from acoustic to electric and there is just SO MUCH information out here
I honestly think its more of a feel thing than an actual sound thing nowadays. I own a Kemper and while i absolutely get its not for everyone and you really have to be willing to learn and tinker, if you're in a band or you have to move your rig occasionally i'd say its a no brainer. Especially given the software support the thing still is getting and the community around it providing profiles. I've been experimenting with my band's guitarist who was also a tube purist but gave in to a line 6 because of the weight savings and versatility. if you want a real in room sound out of your modeler/profiler, connect it up to a power amp (if required of course) and hook it up to an actual cab instead of desk speakers or FRFR cabinets.
For most gigs I run my Kemper Stage through a Marshall power amp and 4x12. Fantastic sound and feel - it has made my very big pedalboard/analog pedals obsolete! 😮
I was persuaded by all of the "Reviews", demos and advertising hype on the TONEX. I must admit that when the TONEX Pedal actually works, it sounds GREAT! At least the Models that I experimented with. The problem for me was that the first pedal that IKM sent to me was defective right out of the box, as was the warranty replacement pedal ... we got that pedal going for a while with the help of IKM Tech Support Team ... when they finally got around to contacting me. That Pedal failed permanently and had to be replaced. My 3rd pedal failed during a "successful" firmware update! That was enough for me. My advice: Stay away from the TONEX Pedal and IKM Products. This whole experience ... buying a product in March and not having a working pedal for most of the time I "owned" (until August) it was just unacceptable. To add to that, the hurdle that IKM puts between "Tech Support" and the customer is ridiculous. I'm still waiting for my refund ... and I will not be buying any more IKM products.
I’ve owned a fair few modelling solutions but always head back to a traditional amp setup. To oversimplify it it is very similar to people who play retro video games. Emulators allow the exact same experience but with massively more scale, convenience and reliability, yet people still want the original hardware in their droves. It’s kind of an irrational thing, but so are many things in art. We like what we like and it’s all OK.
I still like my Boss ME-25 pedal which sounds better with a headphone adapter or a short cable in the headphone slot while recording or using an amp. With all my gear, I don't feel like I need a new multi effects pedal and it is so easy to set up tones with the Boss-ME 25 which has great clean channel settings. I even like to use Bias FX 2 (my favorite sounding plugin for guitar out of all the new guitar plugins I have heard) when recording music with my computer, but I have a mic to use with real amps if I wanted to use it. Heck, I might even try using some of the Boss-ME 25 settings as a boost for a tube amp.
The Line 6 Helix models on a component level. Individual transistors, and capacitors, and even light bulbs for FX that have an optical sensor are modeled and strung together in the signal path. That's what sold me. (Along with a bunch of other awesome features.) :) Happy user since I got mine in the first wave out of Sweetwater. I use mostly 4 patches on a standard gig. Essentially a Vox AC-30, a Fender Twin, a Marshall Plexi, and a Revv Generator (Mostly the Vox, though.). Using a Firehawk 1500 for stage volume, and direct to FoH from the Helix to the house. Never thought I'd be this happy with my rig!
i left tube amps in the early 2000's. sick of back pains and the maintenance. i got a "good enough" tone for years. but when the axe, kemper, etc came out my tones were as good as any of my tube amps and zero maintenance. top modelers today can sound and feel just as good as any tube amp.
Thanks for your analysis. As for myself, I use tube amp when I want to fill my room with a deep tone resonating, the feel will always be unique. But when I want to record, I use amplitube, it's so much easier, the sound is nearly perfect for someone who will hear it through a computer. I'm not playing on stage but I totally understand that people want the most versatile and easy to use gear. Nowadays the gear as so much evolved that I think everyone can choose what's more convenient and good sounding stuff.
Hey Mike, you have a very good channel. I enjoy the topics you cover. As for modeling/profiling gadgets, they're great. They provide a convenience that can't be overlooked. I have an old Positive Grid Bias Amp 2. It works very good for recording late at night. The sound quality of these new gadgets is impressive. I still use my tube powered Mesa Boogie amps for live venues. Unfortunately, Detroit (my town) doesn't have enough qualified live sound techs to run sound at the medium to small venues. Sad to say....Detroit is loaded with an army of Helen Keller sound techs. (no disresect to Helen) Not many techs understand how to mix a direct feed with drums and vocals. It's always a bummer when your friends come up after a show and tell you that they never heard your guitar during your set. This is typical in Detroit. So, bands pretty much know that they have to depend on using a real rig at the medium - to - small venues in Detroit. Not sure which cities have the qualified sound techs but Detroit is very thin in that area. Good luck to all of you out there.
I Use a Headrush Pedalboard that I can't live without. For the live settings that you describe I send my final signal to front of house but I still bring my Orange head and 2 x 12 cab. I send the same signal through the effects return on the Orange so I am just using the power circuit and then I have my own amp behind me to provide as much volume as I may need and to also stand out from the mix. Running my final signal through the Celestions in my cab doesn't result in perfect fidelity but in a beer soaked club that is never noticed. What's funny is one of my go to modeled amp settings is an Orange which is funny playing a modeled Orange through an actual Orange head.
This cool, I’m an older player and sort of stuck on my AC30, but perhaps one of these days I’ll try one. I did get the Vox Cambridge 50 which has decent modeling of 8 amps and an app I’m to lazy to use. It’s fun at low volume but can also get over a rock drummer.
Excellent video, you’re one of the few using clean sounds so I can actually hear your tone. I’ve been playing and recording since the 70’s and have used everything. I can honestly say the new gear is way better. Both guitars and amps. I’ve switched to digital and find the Headrush board gives me everything I need and easy to carry. Consistent sound and no replacing tubes and other parts. Dos it look as cool as my old Marshall stack or Vox, absolutely not but so much easier to use and get killer sounds.
The good thing about tubeamp it feels you are actually playing your guitar... the string vibration is more breath and even in clean tone the sustain of each note is float in the air.... 😊 like inhaling a fresh air in the forest...
Hmmm. Interesting. I drifted from the other extreme & back, then met in the middle. Started with a Line6 modeler, grew into a fat vintage tube amp, kicked around a Kemper for a bit, but finally recently downscaled to a couple properly gain staged Effectrode HiFi valve tube units. ...The Firebottle into the Blackbird dumble/fender sim with a Helios fuzz on the 2nd (isolated) output, and viola, those 3 units cover the full range of tones from clean to fully saturated with eq that takes you all the way up to treble booster territory, and yet they still undeniably compress & distort just like beautifully calibrated valve tube circuits they are. Straight into delay & PA or di to DAW & monitors. Pure tones, w zero lag, no phase probs, no ground loops, no hum, no noise, no digital hard clipping, no mic'ing hassles.
Just bought the NUX Amp Academy pedal. 12 different amp models, cab simulation, price around 200 Dollars. Perfect for our rehearsal situation with electronic drums. Still love my Marshall though!
There is one factor that tends to make alternatives to real amps very attractive, and that is the fact that pro quality amps have become extremely expensive over the past 20 years or so, and the decline of music retail means that a lot of people simply aren't going to have the opportunity to go to music stores and even find the amps they might wish to try out to see if they are compatible with their music tastes and style. The idea of dropping $2500 on a single amp and then not liking it is, or just having it not be appropriate for one's needs is daunting, especially considering the costs of shipping and resale fees from the popular secondary market websites. And buying multiple amps is that much more of a hassle. For a lot of people, the idea that they can purchase a small digital unit, and if they don't like one sound, they can for a cost of next to nothing, or even nothing, change every major aspect of their sound, is a huge relief. I have the advantage of age and experience, so I know after playing out for 30 years exactly what I want from my gear, but a lot of younger musicians won't have that advantage, and a lot of hobbyist musicians may never even intend to play live gigs, and there's nothing wrong with that.
I think there's a fourth amplification possibility that we're only beginning to scratch the surface and that's digital amps that are not models or profiles of analog amps. I think the Boss Katana is kind of getting there with the generic sounding names and there are many ways it can go, but imagine a digital amp (or pedal) that just has great sounds. Maybe it could start with blending the tonal characteristics of, say, a Vox and an Fender or a Marshall and a Mesa Boogie. As people get better and better at recreating the tones of classic amps, I think it could be really cool to take it a step further and craft completely new and unique "amps" entirely in the digital sphere.
I think a big difference is do you have to move and carry your amp somewhere or is it never leaving a room? If you have to carry it places more than once in a while, it gets old fast and tube amps can be finicky. Personally I say just pick whatever it is that makes a sound you like and go with it. I mean, Brian May used the Deacy on tons of tracks and for years no one knew it was a homemade solid state amp.
I have a 1974 50w Marshal head I've had for donkey's years, I got a Kemper about six years ago and I got an Axe-fx III about 18 months ago. Crucially I don't own many pedals, only two, and this makes a difference to the equation. My experience is: I don't use my Marshal any more. Noise. Hassle recording it. I keep meaning to get a good attenuation/IR box for it but so far I've always had other priorities. So it gathers dust despite sounding really good and seriously authentic - if cranked of course. The Kemper has a fundamental flaw - it's great for playing a good profile capture with all EQs and gain at noon, i.e. settings as profiled, but if you want to tweak the EQ or the gain etc it does not respond authentically 'cos obviously it can only have generic EQ and gain algorithms (although the new thing they've brought out recently seeks to address that). If you got a bunch of your own amps then you need to profile each one several times at the settings you typically use. If you also got your own pedal board it works fine and you don't have to use the very mediocre Kemper effects. Since I have neither the multiple amps nor the pedal board I was left with just the deficiencies of the Kemper profiling system. The Axe-fx I use all the time now. End of. It sounds amazing. The amp models and effects respond authentically to tweaking, the presets are by far the most usable and the effects are excellent. For example models of amps that have both a preamp and a master gain knob have them in the Axe-fx too and they interact authentically, something the Kemper cannot do. I make my own patches now exclusively so I do understand the one major downside to the Axe-fx range for gigging and session musicians - it's the worst option by far for programming/tweaking patches on the unit itself so if you need to do that on the road realistically you need a laptop with you as well to run the Axe-edit software. But I play at home so this is not a problem for me. Axe-edit makes making patches a snap. So for me the Axe-fx beats the Kemper into the ground. For those with their own amps and pedal boards and their own signature sound, the equation is different since a good Kemper profile of your own amps at your preferred settings will sound almost indistinguishable, to all intents and purposes identical in a mix so long as you leave all EQ and gain controls at noon, and your pedal board is still your pedal board.
So I have owned several moderlars and many real apps. I settled down with the axe fx 3 . I was very happy with its tones when I bought it and loved how it's gotten more accurate as time has led to newer updates. I will also say tone x was a huge game changer. Both units are amazing. One is a all in one and the other is an amazing amp
I have been playing for 20+ years and I was using a Digitech Genesis and Genesis 3 amp modelers long before the Axe FX,Kemper Profiler,and a Synergy and plugins were all over TH-cam.when things were more simpler and more affordable…and the thing still works and does the job and sounds Fire still. #BUFFALO #NEWYORK
for the title answer... imo...not a lot of guitar player stop using the amp...for demo,fun n practice its ok for modeller...but for the real deal...micing amp,its like in vegas wining the jackpot... good playing btw... 🎸
I used to use a Line 6 Pocket Pod to play though headphones or an amp when i was in high school. Had the Line 6 Spyder 3 and 4 and a Peavey Vyper and now a Vyper VIP. Best friend's dad played through a Line 6 Pod, and my brother got a Line 6 head and cab with lots of effects and amp models. Very cool to see more tools become more accessible to experiment with, but i def focused too much on gear and not enough on practice and learning lol might try playing through my PC and practicing again
I got a Princeton reverb, with the mindset that it was a smaller amp so perfect for studio/home playing , and can get natural breakup. I’m concerned for people if they think that amp isn’t loud, holy crap, I couldn’t use it pass 2.5 volume and had to return it
Ya should of got the tone master version. Not sure if there’s an effects loop in yours or not but if there is I recommend a little black box pedal and it’ll tame that amp into awesome bedroom use tone.
Can't blame you for returning but an attenuator would've made it more usable. It's more money you have to spend, especially for a good one, but I can have a blast with my Boogie and not bother anyone in my apartment building.
They all sounded great, the real amp sounded the best to me, very closely followed by the toneX profiler and the UX dream was my least favorite, it was the right model, maybe the eq was off
I’ve had the Kemper, the Iridium ( to my ears the best of all), the Simplifier, the Dream ‘65. Tried amp plugins as well (UA Deluxe ‘55, Scuffham (the best imho), Neural, Amplitube Handy for recording processed guitar sounds and avoiding excessive volume. But otherwise, tone and dynamics especially for clean sounds are just not comparable , no matter how hard I tweak them. So back to my 50’s and 60’s Fender amps , SM57 and/or E906 mics and on we go
The thing is are you looking to get a more full experience from an amp modellers (where it will better replicate the whole amp when changing settings) or are you looking to get an exact sound of an amp from a profile (where changing the settings can vastly change the sound). Now Kemper jumps in with Liquid Profiling, this is gonna get interesting and don't forget NAM. Where I live here in Australia a "real" amp is basically never gonna happen unless you are a doctor or a lawyer, they are just too expensive, so, it's always gonna be modelling or capturing, a "real" amp is just so limiting and you'll be saving money with the modeller/profiler. Even then the HeadRush Prime is $1,200 USD, here in Oz $2,199 AUD.
I have been using mid range fx and solid state amp for past 20 years, at home/no gig, just some jamming. Some were good and some were ney. Only 4 years ago i started to use tube amps and individual pedals and now i honestly can't go back now, the feels and tones of tube amp are just so mesmerising. Ok, to be fair, i haven't try kemper, helix and those current high end mfx to says that they are not worth to be explore again.
We played a nice theater a few weeks ago. The sound tech saw my Headrush and said, "I love those things." When we were packing up at the end of the night, he said, "We had {well known guitarist with well known affinity for vintage tube amps} in here not long ago and you got a better tone than he did with no mucking about."
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I remember back in the eighties we saw a couple of session guitarists who used to turn up with a peddle board and a DI box to plug into our desk. They would give me a lead to plug into the big studio desk, switch on, and there it would be. Great sound. They were rarer then (people were wed to amps) but they proved, even all those years ago before modelers, profilers, or digital emulation, that you could get the sound the client needed without lugging a ton load of equipment. Perhaps the rest of the industry has spent the last 40 years catching up?
They were likely using sansamps. The stuff is good and always has been. Best response you can get outside a real amp.
I just bought another tube amp.
I love simulations, they allow me to play everyday.
Listening through TH-cam videos they even sound almost the same, but a loud amp in front of you is still matchless.
For sure but how practical is that for people who don’t play live and live in apartments? I think what a lot of amp lovers tend to forget is nobody is in the position their in financially or logistically and yet there is this inherent need to burst some bedroom musician’s bubble by saying how their set up is inferior because it doesn’t have this indescribable “it” factor.
Just plug the modeller/profiler on a cranked power amp and a cab, and you get the exact same result. The pre-amp (or its model) is what makes the tone, not the loudness.
@@andythefrenchy8026 +1 on this. I do it all the time. A headphone or a studio monitor just wouldn’t have the power and feel of a 10 inch speaker. Plug your modeler to a good 10 or 12 inch FRFR, be BRAVE to cut ultra high frequencies a bit more than what you’re comfortable. Listen by ear, not by what the Hz tells you. Some amp models really need to be cut down to around 6K then incrementally up the treble from there. It really helps to get rid of the ultra high frequency “stiffness” that tires the ear. Just my 2 cents tho ✌️
@@andythefrenchy8026 I'm curious though, being new to this area myself (I own two great modeling amps) - What is DRIVING the cab in that scenario? The ToneX is not providing anything in terms of wattage, right? What is pushing the speakers?
I will lose more money now.
I was an early adopter of the axe-fx, and like a mini tone chasers, I tried cabs, and FRFR speakers, active systems, passive systems. I played three different iterations of that modeler for over a decade. And you know what? I’m back to tube amps. And a lot of the celebrity musicians who were into modelers are also back to tube amps. Maybe your love affair will fade in a decade as well. For many of us, there is an immediacy that just cannot be matched, no matter what the technology. I’m not really speaking of tube amps. I am really speaking of analog amps versus digital modelers, because that immediacy can be there with a solid-state amp as well.
Oh man...thank you for saying that.
Same for me. Past four five years all digital ...still use digital daily...but tube amp is where everything is really at.
I hate saying it on the internet because of butthurt folks who can't stand another's opinion. And generally people say....they SOUND the same pretty much and you can't tell. Okay true.
They don't feel like a tube amp. They, just, don't. The in person experience and feel is day and night. Any good guitar player will admit to this before they go back to using their NDSP plugins or Kemper etc. Pros and cons of both, digital v tube....but tube is tube is tube for a reason. Yeah yeah yeah....they "sound" basically the same, AGAIN. But sound is only one of many factors.
Just my humble opinion after 17 years of playing....I'm gonna use my digital stuff this afternoon for a jam myself. But tube is still king today. Glad to see the tech evolving
So true.
I have both! Life’s all about options
For recording or anything big enough that i need to go through PA anyway, digital and modelers for sure. For small venues or basement jams though, nothing beats the feeling of the way a good tube amp fills up a space.
@@ehsanhaq155 okay, why do they don’t feel like tube amps? Mostly because you play modelers through headphones or at low volume… that’s the feeling difference. You couldn’t feel a difference between a modeler going into a real cab and a tube amp (at same volume). It all depends on people and needs. Id love to have real cabs and mic to experiment with mic combos and placement. But I live in an apartment and modelers do 99% of the job, and almost 100% on recordings.
Feeling is not an argument, it’s the closest thing to placebo you could argue… I bet if I could A/B modeler and tube in the room, going through the same cab you couldn’t hear the difference.
But sure do what makes you want to play guitar! Im jealous you can have all this gear!!!
I keep saying this: modeling is imitating the real thing. Nothing wrong with that but in my experience getting a good tone out of a modeler takes a lot of tweaking whereas when I plug my guitar into my low wattage tube amp, slap a 57 on the speaker and plug into recorder/daw I am immediately getting a good sound! Move the mike a little, twiddle the eq on the amp a bit, done. Works every time. Why waste time and money on modelers and IRs?
A low watt tube amp can be had second hand for $€100-200 . A brand new Sm57 is around $€ 100. So for 200 or 300 $€ you can record a real tube tone with a real microphone.
Here’s where that notion falls apart. Have you ever mic’ed an amp and went to record it, especially in an apartment?
Say you got a great tone in the room, now you go to mic it. First issue you run into living in an apartment is isolation. Often you have to fight against your air conditioning, your refrigerator fans turning on, people slamming car doors outside, neighbors with noisy kids, the sound of your pick hitting the strings because you can’t turn the amp up loud enough to get an optimal signal-to-noise ratio. That’s even if your cab is in another room. If you have a two bedroom, you have better chances of getting at least SOME isolation, but you’ll still have to contend with some of the other issues, like the neighbors. Second, your mic choice and placement is crucial. It takes a shitload of experimentation (meaning CONSTANTLY getting up going back and forth!) to find out what works for a mix, and often times, the majority of people are dialing-in their mic’ed tones without any sort of reference point. So what happens is you end up having to go reposition the mic to get a tone that works for a MIX. It’s one thing to get a great sound on its own, it’s another to get it to actually sound good being layered with other instruments. Say you never get a tone that sits-well, it’s possible your mic choice isn’t optimal, now you gotta spend MORE money to experiment with different mics. I’ve been down that road, many times
With modelers, instead of having to go back and forth to do all this stuff blind, all the control is at your feet. You don’t have to worry about isolation or signal-to-noise. If your tone is too bright, you can fix it right there. If it doesn’t have enough this or that, you can fix it right there. Then there’s the fact that so many places want little or no stage volume…whatcha gonna do then? Lug your 42lb tube head, a full pedalboard and a Two Notes Captor to the gig…or an 8lb Helix that is fully self-contained and can make tones that are indistinguishable to the real thing in a mix?
Not interested in bashing anyone, but a lot of tube snobs don’t think their views through, and it’s clear many of them don’t actually gig.
As an owner of a Line6 Helix Floor and someone who used to own a half stack 5150 set up, I'll take the Helix over anything. What you said about "changing amps mid song" 100% true. I'm no tone god, but being able to use two different heads, set up a snapshot with whatever combos of pedals and gain and EQ settings per snapshot is such an insane thing to be able to do as a guitar player.
You have a splitter pedal for that, my friend lol
it seems the ability to actually rock two real amps to switch between on a gig is something thats reserved for big name artists or people that have a gig and has almost all the room reserved for them, i.e. a stadium or even a church. You can't even rock one real amp on a small venue without contesting the real estate being used by everything else. With a stadium, you probably have room to put your amp somewhere AND cover it to mute it, AND mic it.
@@stevestevens1457tell that to the guy who has to lug the amps around LMAO
@@sexdungeoninteriordesigner5045 I can carry two heads at once hehe
@@cheeseUout It's not even really that. Most bigger artists run big cabs that are miked into PA's but are using Kempers or something for their tones. HOWEVER, you gotta remember that people (like me) who use these modelers aren't playing one style of music and going for one tone. I play metal and pop punk and blues and all of that and the modeler gives me the ability to get ANY tone I won't and I'm not tied to one thing.
With the Kemper, i found the tone i had in my head for MANY years.. and since i've found my tone, i focus on practice :)
Which speakers you use?
I've been one of those "valve purist" people for over 15 years, and after owning around 10 valve amps over the years, have been very impressed with the sound quality and realism coming from modelers and profilers released in the past 5 years or so (at least based on what I've heard in TH-cam demos). My introduction to amp sims was all of the Positive Grid plugin products on pc and iOS. These plugins keep getting realer and realer! I'm not gigging currently, so I can't justify the purchase of one of these hardware units that you have demonstrated, but I understand why people would find them convenient, practical, and flexible in both live and studio applications. When I go back to gigging, I think I'd like to try going direct using a selection of amp heads in conjunction with a reactive load/IR unit like the Captor X. I'm looking forward to downloading Tonex on my pc and trying that out!
😂sure
none of that garbage sounds good
A 5w tube amp with reverb is all a need.
First, I have to say that for only playing for eight years, your playing is great and you’ve got a natural feel. To my ear, the Dream 65 did a much better job than the Tonex in replicating the Princeton sound.
I'd say it is arguable. And remember, the tonex models many amps. Not just one. And you can profile your amp collection with it.
@@ramonw9430 Yeah, all true, but sometimes you just want simple in a smaller package.
@@stickman55100 I hear you. I just have a stash of vintage amps, most of which don't gig so well anymore. Some of them are quite rare, I'd like to get them profiled before it's too late. For that reason the tonex is attractive to me. Don't get me wrong, the UAD stuff sounds amazing. I'd love to acquire some of their pedals as well. Particularly the delay and reverb pedals in this pedal series. But if you are looking for bang for the buck plus the ability to profile amps and pedals then you'd be hard pressed to find a better deal with the same quality.
@@ramonw9430 I think you’re definitely on the right track to profile those as soon as possible. That’s a brilliant way to preserve their unique tonal qualities. Then, sell the amps before they deteriorate and depreciate in value.
@@ramonw9430 To my ears it's not really arguable. The Dream 65 nails it, the tonex comes close, but not more.
I went with the dream bc I don’t have any “classic” amps to model. It’s basically like paying $400 for a awesome fender!
I guess I never thought about if you (i assume) are plugging into computer to get it then the pedal is a super super viable option for a DI type achievement of that sound
Well done Mike! I've been intrigued as well by this whole topic, and have gone down many a rabbit hole on this subject. As a 56 year old guitar player, sometimes it's a drag carrying the amp and cabinet around [although mine is pretty compact and light PRS MT-15 amp with an Orange PPC112 60W cabinet], I'm now looking at either a modeler or profiler. Keep up the good work! - RT
After 3 months, using Tonex on PC, I sold a lot of equipment and bought the pedal version. It is worth mentioning that I had used the plugin with my pair of simple monitors, the Edifier R2600, which I love. Then, suddenly, I had the opportunity to buy the Nux PA-50, for a great price. It's an FRFR box and, as much as the Tonex, this Nux has surprised me more every day. Here's the tip!
Objectively: for more than two decades, albeit in an amateurish way, I have been a purist. Over time, I've had Super Reverb, Bassman 59', Vox AC-15, Dr Z and others. I kept the Deluxe Reverb, and I still think it's the best amp you can get - next to the Princeton. My whole "school" comes from the 60s/70s sounds, from Neil Young to CSN, from Stones to Zeppelin and so on. So, obviously, when I started immersing myself in Tonex I was looking for familiar timbres, blackface, tweed, AC-30, plexis etc. What did I think? SENSATIONAL!
I highlight the following points:
-excellent dynamics; more than listening I feel what I play with Tonex
-The PRESENCE and DEPHT knobs use in real time, and are perfect for fine-tuning all profiles/presets
-the Tonex matches my pedals perfectly well, which ends up multiplying the colors/tones/possibilities of every overdrive and fuzz pedal I own by hundreds - they obviously react differently on every amp
It takes work to adjust everything, it's not even remotely plug and play. Tired, distracts the focus, hurts the spine, but... in the end, even though I still think that nothing will replace the feeling of playing the Fender Dleuxe Reverb at volumes 5 or 6, I think the Tonex is absurdly realistic, useful and pleasurable. In the right hands!
Besides, let's face it, it's very difficult to get the best sounds out of tube amps. Rare are the times I could open their volumes and get the sounds I always had in mind. In that sense, and much more than simulators, in my opinion, Tonex is a mother!
Congratulations on the video, all the best and sound!
I used real amps only once. Then changed to modellers and ended up with a Kemper. Just sold it and bought a Headrush Prime. Being capable of modelling, profiling and having vocal chains/effects also (incl. Antares Autotune) - dream device. As a singer and guitar player this is my brand new creativity tool to go. Don't have much experience regarding live gigs yet. And to mention the downsides also: within the first week of owning this device I had a reboot in the middle of a practice session. Tone was suddenly clean (at least not gone) and came back after that reboot. Don't want to experience this on stage. But still this is the next level of creativity for me. I sold the Kemper now and I will also sell my Fender Rumble Studio 40 bass amp, because there are some decent bass profiles too. So as a looper artist and composer - I use a Boss 500 together with a mic, bass, guitar and a keyboard for all other instruments - I just need the Prime and an instrument switch to loop guitars and basses. I'm happy now. I wish the Prime had more looping capabilities and more inputs, so I could plug in Keys, Bass, Guitar and Mic directly into the Prime and also get rid of the Boss. But it's just a computer, maybe one day they add more features.
I've seen people complaining on the Line 6 forum that they hear artifacts that they can't dial out, but then go back to their tube amp and notice the same thing for the very first time. There is a 3D quality to real amps that modelers just can't replicate. I've always said for years that modelers sound like the sound is pressed up against a plate of glass. It's like they do the 2D (x + y axis) really well, but there's a depth, or z axis component in real amps (not a lows, mids, and highs thing) with all of the layered artifacts that modelers can't replicate and as a result, just end up compressing those artifacts into the 2D spectrum. It actually has nothing to do with tubes vs solid state. It's the interaction between how the output transformer throws the notes and the interplay with the mechanical action of the speaker cone. That's where all the feel and openness comes from, not from EQ. Modelers will never replicate that, but can get kind of close. The concept in high-end audio is called soundstage. IRs try to replicate the feel with EQ, delays and ambience, but it's never going to feel the same. The sound will always have a fizzle or crackle to it with the modeled artifacts sounding pushed to the forefront.
I have an old mini laptop and audio interface I'm going to convert into an amp profiler/modeller using NAM. Something I small enough to put on my board.
I tried NAM out recently and decided I have to do this. Some of the profiles are perfect for running my pedals into but then I want to be able to switch to a high gain profile to play metal. It's too flexible to pass up if you like playing different styles of music.
I love real amps and being in the room with a cranked one, but buying multiple real amps is just not reasonable for most people.
Doesn't matter if it's digital when it's that good!
Dude you started the video with a fantastic smooth lead tone and lovely playing and not a hard fizzy scratchy tone like so many Amp Modelers have so for that I am more than happy to subscribe!
If it sounds good, it is good. And I think a Hybrid Rig offers some of the best Tonal Options. If you have a Profiler or Modeler, you can place the output into the Return of a Tube Amp’s Effect Loops. Then you have the Preamp of the Profiler/Modeler in front of your Amps Power Section. No need to an FRFR Speaker or Studio Monitors if you have and good Amp Combo or Speaker Cabinet.
That's what I do with the GT 100 with send/return. I have a Peavy VK and on the GT 100 I Set up a patch where I use the preamp on the Peavy whenever I want, which is definitely a little bit richer and "in your face" than the preamps on the GT 100.
The Dream has 6 cab size options that use different classic mics. There are also some tone “mods” as well. The versatility is bonkers. It’s fun to jump through some settings and dial in the tone you want
Just completed a good two years in the digital realm. I’m happy going back to playing pedals and amps.
Do you still feel that Way. Amps is where its at ? And what is your favorite apartment amp? thanks.
@@crazywisdom2 still bashing away with amp and pedals with no inclination to change. Using a Quilter US CUB amp. Loud enough to peel the paint from the walls and equally as good with quiet practice or headphones. It’s the only amp you’ll ever need
Analog versus Digital has been going on for a while now and things have just gotten better. I started playing before there was an internet. I would run a Carvin DC150 Stereo with one output going to my analog rig and the other going to my digital rig. Sure, it sounded great but it was a lot of gear to lug around. Now days I use a Les Paul or a Stratocaster with a volume pedal through a Fender Mustang III. I have been accused of using a tube amp. I love being able to dial in the British 60's sound and then being able to go balls to the wall. For less money and weight I can get several convincing amp sounds. The one thing that I've learned over the years is to keep it simple. And never think that you can get those last few stripps of grass during an electrical storm.
I use a Crate 150 amp head with 2 columns of stereo speakers one on top of the other. The Crate features a stereo output so I can play in stereo. I like choosing my own speakers as opposed to what comes in a self contained amplifier. Cheers from eastern TN
What eveyone needs to remember is that plugin modelers are modelling a close mic'd cab. Basically what you hear through the headphones, monitors, venue PA system, or on the recording.
What they aren't modelling is a physical cab sitting in a room with you. That will always sound different because it's a cab sitting physically in the room with you. That's not what modelers are looking at, it's literally impossible to get a one-to-one capture/recording of what you hear from a cab in the room with you because your ears are not a microphone.
But whether it's on a studio recording or live, what you're hearing is a close mic'd cab being sent into a mix or PA system. Not a physical cab sending sound to your ears. This is where current modelers and physical gear have a negligible difference if any at all.
Any guitar tone you've heard on a recording, album or live isn't coming directly from a cab. It's coming from a microphone recording the cab.
The best comment, I wonder how all those “musicians” don’t understand that simple concept
This is wrong, because for years many of the various emulation systems *do* model the sound through the mic. Which is the opposite of the picture you're painting.
That said I've never been that impressed and would only use a digital amp sim if it was free, I needed the sound, and no valve amps were available.
There is another solution to not having a valve amp available: Acoustic guitar.
Which is why the sell frfr's. I bought the FR-10 to pair with my ToneMaster Pro and it literally sounds and FEELS like the amp that is being modeled. It's actually mind-blowing.
I’ll take you further down the rabbit hole. The 4th option, anything that sounds good. Right now companies are largely focused on modeling actual amps. But that assumes that the only sounds an artist wants or needs is coming out of some amp that already exists. The next step is guitar processing that ignores the amp completely. Imaginary devices and unorthodox signal processing. Whatever sounds good.
My biggest step recently was getting decent (budget) studio monitors instead of using headphones. I had always greatly preferred the amp to the headphone/modeler setup, but now it’s a dead heat. I can even set them loud enough to get feedback. The 5 inch drivers are missing a bit of low end that I get from the amp, but the experience is much closer than I thought it would be.
I use a pair of Samson RSX 215 and cheap Vintage NAD amp from eBay and i am sooo Happy!! Perfect Setup with my Helix modeler! Sold all Tube amps.
I have a 1958 fender pro. It weighs 45lbs. That’s the only reason i leave it at home. Nothing sounds as good, but I gotta get to the gig.
I prefer amps, but the convenience of modelers and profiles is great. I use a modeling amp and a couple of amp in a box type pedals, but I do miss having a good tube amp. Most of the time I use a nice clean channel on my amp, and use my Joyo American Sound (Fender amp in a box pedal) to get my base sound, then use my pedal board to take it wherever I need to. The joyo does a great job of catching the Fender vibe, I've had a few Fender amps and was very impressed with the sound of this pedal, especially considering the price.
I got the Tonex software, and adore it. I'm a bedroom player and I plug my interface in to my amp and get to play both and save tons of money. I'll never spend the money for a Trainwreck, Soldano, Dumble, Klon Centaur, Plexi, '65 Twin Reverb, etc. but with the Tonex I get to play them when I want. It's an amazing piece of software. I don't have the pedal, but again, don't need it. I don't gig.
I've found that a tube amp has a 'feel' that is very organic and I have yet to hear a modeler or profile match that. I haven't tried any of the more modern 'non-amp' approaches so I that could change my mind. I used to use a Boss Amp Factory (and that's really old so I think the newer units must be far superior) and I'd carefully add some compression to try and get closer to the amp's give and take. What I found, even with the older digital type amps is that, on stage, there is very little noticeable difference. Definitely nothing the audience could tell. In studio, though - that's a different story. I'm really looking forward to getting something like the TONEX because I'm really tired of hauling boat anchors (ahem... tube amps) around. Not to mention having to haul a second amp because you never know when the expensive tube amp might decide to carp out on you.
Do a blind test.
Both with and without playing the guitar.
@@JiTiAr35 and do it at stage volumes. The modeling sounds like plastic.
@@ryosapien27your opinion doesn't matter if you can't pass the blind test.
Both with and without playing the guitar.
@@JiTiAr35 you take your confirmation bias I’ll take your garbage tube amps it’s a win win
Lol. My real amps had carped out my amps too many times during my gigs and recording sessions through 80s, 90s, and 2000s. After hauling everywhere with my half-stack and 2x12 combo, is enough for me (Not to mentioned, it's also hurting my shoulder and lower back. Lol). Having a "feel" and "real" sound amp is great...BUT I will not miss it. Today, I really LOVING my current digital modelers (light, one small package, and having 200 amps in my pocket). "Fractal" saved my life. Lol.
I own the tone x after owning a kemper. It took me a few days to find the tones I liked on the tone x but once I found some tones I liked I haven’t searched for any other tones, the only reason I see to buy a kemper over a tone x is if you need an all in one unit with effects, or you need stage volume you can get a kemper with a power amp, but it’s hard to justify for the price difference. I don’t think you can go wrong with any digital unit now days, the UA stuff sounds great, tone x sounds great, line 6 sounds great, etc.
I bought my first amp modeler in 1989, a Scholz Rockman. I got it because neighbors in my apartment complained when I switched on my Princeton Reverb.
Top advice bro. Thanks a lot, I'm literally in the same boat. I came over recently to electrics from +20 years classical guitar. I'm on a katana mini, and was holding off getting either a boss katana artist combo or a top modeler... Going down this route ultimately, almost certainly going for a Line6 HX Stomp. liked subbed.🤘
The Dream 65 sounds a little brighter than the other two. The Tonex and the Princeton are very close. I bet there's an IR option on the Dream 65 that'd get it closer, but honestly I think it was my favorite sound! You're right about the learning curve, though that certainly isn't true of all modelers - if you choose something like an HX Stomp, there is a much steeper learning curve (but that is the price of flexibility)
I thought the tone x was too harsh and the dream was warmer
Sansamps are even better.
I am neck deep in this topic i took a few years off from playing from about 2006 til 2020 and the world had changed in guitar world , i bought a helix and its took a year to finally figure it out in depth then i decided i loved the variety and amount of options then i realized i missed the amp in the room tone and bought a ENGL FB25 finally in last week i figured out the correct way to match my Helix to my stack and its heaven but of course now the profilers like tonex is hot and i may have to dive in there , i think theres value to all these formats if used correctly , great video and great playing new to your chanel
You are leaving out a major factor when discussing this topic. It’s not just about tone or sound. The way it responds is just as important as the way it sounds. A profiler/ modeler at bedroom volume and playing it live or in a band situation is two totally different things. When it comes to that give me a tube amp any day because nothing digital will ever be able to respond the way a tube amp does when being pushed into overdrive/distortion. I’ve actually found a happy medium with the Fender Superchamp x2 head. You’ve got digital modeling in the preamp and a completely tube power output.
I think there's a nice middle ground: Use an analog preamp with an IR cab sim. AMT makes an amazing series of tube preamp pedals called "Bricks" as well as some other tube preamp pedals. It's some impressive kit.
You can run the Headrush MX5 through the effects loop on an amp using the 4 cable method and bypass the Headrush amp sims while still choosing to include or exclude cab sim IRs as well. The modeling and effects on it are just as good as Neural DSP & Kemper in my opinion as well. Oh, and it is also one of the most affordable modelers that even lets you load in your own custom or purchased cab/speaker IR sims from anywhere else as well.
Hey Chase thanks for pointing out the AMT pedals! I'm going to do some research!😉
This. I have some actual amps at home but my go-to is pedals into IR or Power Amp.
Tho I am thinking of getting a tonex lol
Yup this is something I've decided to try as well, I feel like picking dynamics on real tube might sound different than fully digital.
See my other comment: th-cam.com/video/sbAHgZn9bao/w-d-xo.html&lc=UgxdLFF917wLEWlObut4AaABAg
The single thing that modellers lack is the breakup. Even today it's that elusive last thing that modellers can't get _quite right_ . That clean to breakup when digging in is the key
I have a Two Rock Bloomfield 50/100, a Mesa Boogie mk IIC+, and a Dream 65. I bought the Dream 65 as a convenience, but it's vanilla compared to the real deal. I've seen all the reviews, and for whatever reason I didn't get the same results. Maybe I should've bought the Ruby. I tried the Kemper in a store, but didn't impress me. When I bought the Boogie in the 80s, it was fire. I use to have a Paul Rivera modified Fender Reverb Deluxe; it was a great amp. The Dream doesn't come close. But budget-wise, I can see why some people would opt for it. The other thing is that I don't go on the road, so I don't need to sacrifice sound for that sort of convenience. The reason I got the Dream was that sometimes I don't want to fire up my rig to play with some idea. The downside for the Dream is no headphone jack... maybe should have gone for the Iridium.
I use a Quad Cortex and plugins on my PC. I love the sound of a real amp and they will always be around and important. But as someone without endless amounts of money, the profilers / modelers / plugins work very well. It's easier now to learn / play guitar than it ever has been and that should be celebrated.
The thing with profilers is that they are only as good as the profile you load into them. ToneX comes with a lot of perfectly serviceable profiles, but some of the aftermarket ones are staggeringly good in terms of both sound and feel, and that's coming from a hardcore tube amp lover. Definitely enjoying it a lot more than I did the Kemper I had.
I've been an Axe FX user for a long time, and I feel that with all the parameters it makes available to tweak, there isn't an amplifier out there that it can't emulate to 99% fidelity. And even if you never intend to muck around with all the "deep parameters" and just want to plug and play and turn a few knobs, just like with a physical amp, a modeler gives that to you as well.
this video literally came out as i was looking at modelers
Oooo... modelers have become outdated since then. Now we're all using "stylers", which are like profilers but even newer than modelers!
That’s really great news.
The Kemper and Quad Cortex obviously do a lot more than the ToneX. But if all you want is an amp capture/profiler to take your amps with you, and you don’t need all the other effects built in, the ToneX is 1/5th the price and sounds fantastic. I love being able to use it with my normal pedalboard, and bring real amp captures from Matchless, Magnatone, Soldano, etc and even Dumbles. Super useful and cost effective.
The Dream is great, but it’s the same price as the ToneX and only does one amp well. If you want 2-3 amps, the UA pedals will cost you almost as much as a real amp, whereas the ToneX stays the same price.
All of these options sound great. To most listeners it would be extremely difficult/next to impossible to tell exactly what option the artist used for their chosen tone on a recorded track. I think it comes down what tone inspires the artist the most. Of course practicality comes into play if you're hauling your rig around. I'm guessing a lot of players are probably willing to sacrifice a small amount of tone to save them time and their back when carrying around, setting up and breaking down their gear.
yeahright thats why pros ise these eh
Good video! It’s all about preference and what kind of music is being played. I’ve tried all kinds of modelers/profilers. They’re fun and creatively amazing, but, as a mostly live player, I find that the tone sounds great at home when I’m setting it up, but changes when I’m in different size venues/stages every night. I can tweak my tube amps with a couple quick turns and I know how to get the tone I’m looking for quickly Vs having to tweak parameter through menus on the gig. I love all the digital stuff when I’m recording, but for live, it’s only tube amps. Rock on! Keep up the good work!
The UA amp pedals are great. I have the Ruby and the Woodrow, and they’re perfect for late night recording when I can’t use a real amp or even going into a clean amp they really do give your amp a new sound if you have the speaker emulation turned off.
Nothing can recreate the FEELING a tube amp gives you.
For the most part, your audience cant tell and/or care about the "feeling" YOU get from a tube amp.
@@amaturemusiciansand that's why you're called "amature". Because professionals (and decent amatures that are open) care about feeling, and importantly: a good audience that cares about music can feel whether you're vibing with the dynamic, whether you admit it or not.
If the people you play to don't care whether you're feeling it, you could ask yourself whether you're the problem.
It's been scientifically proven that Its not the tube amp voodoo. It's the cabinet.
uh huh
uh huh
Profilers have their place. I use NAM and tonex to practice or do quick recordings. For bedroom playing, I'd agree, they're very close. Close enough to jam and have fun. But none of these replace an amplifier, especially when pushing a room.
Honestly if you want to push a room, it's still cheaper to buy an amp profiler/modeller then use a power amp. It's also more effective since you can find some nice quality clean power amps for pretty cheap
Personally I don’t hear enough of a difference to justify not using the tonex pedal. I’m super excited to check out one myself and get some hands on experience with it myself. Thanks for the video man!
I listened to the test on my monitor that I use live. The Princeton was warmer, much fuller and balanced, and felt good physically. The boxes didn't give the balanced frequencies, though maybe that could be tweaked better, sounded and felt like something was missing. Luckily people listen to the feel of the player and the music more than these things. It all reminds me of when the first CDs came out, crystal clear, but cold. I asked a DJ once how they compensated for this and he said we turn it up louder....
If I was still touring, I'd definately use a profiler of some sort. I used to tour with a rackmount guitar preamp set-up (Digitech TwinTube/Digitech DSP 128) and our tour rider specified at least one 100w tube amp half-stack w/an effects return. That was in 1997-99 - and worked very well. Gear has come a long way for sure. For recording, it's still a real Marshall or 5150 or Boogie, but it is fun to combine those with software amps.
I think physical gear is cool (I mean that's what is being simulated after all). But I highly doubt even pros could differentiate between recordings made with the latest sims in honest blind A/B testing. Especially in a mix.
I've been playing since 73....mostly SS amps and pedals till about 91 when I got a Korg A5 multiFX. Loved the simplicity of all the FX, but went the 100 pound Mesa head/cab and pedals route next 20 years. Today its a Boss GX-100 into a 2x10 ss combo I made. Light, loud, zero maintenance and very convincing tube tones without breaking the bank, although I do miss that Mesa sometimes.
Love the guitar strap. Combo with the guitar is... perfect. Also great video :)
As soon as I began to record original music… modeling is the only way I go. A few people say I’d sound better if I used a real amp but then it depends how I mic it. Cool video!😊
I think the thing to consider is under what circumstances you're playing. For home recording and quiet playing the modelers and profilers work great. Recording is a miked sound so an actual amp is not what is in a recording, it's a miked sound. For playing live it's extremely difficult to replicate the actual sound and response of an actual guitar amp. Without an amp, what you're hearing is just a miked sound of an amp. I can play either way but i definitely prefer an actual amp when playing live, un-miked and plenty loud. For home recording i wouldn't waste my time with an amp, i do it all direct, it's much easier and the results are the same
Nice video. I heard differences among the three sound sources but that doesn't mean any one of them were bad. In fact, I largely liked what I heard and I own a Princeton. When it comes to deciding which platform to use, my view is go with what easily sets one up for success. I love the Princeton amp because it is plug and play. Modeling is great, in my opinion, when it is like the UAD Dream: simply turn it on and dial in the knobs to taste. I like that a lot. On the other hand, I know people who love using something like the Line 6 Helix to build an entire rig from the ground up. Frankly, I don't enjoy tweaking that much and would rather spend my time playing. Turning to profiling, that world is its own animal. To create high-quality profiles, it takes good ears and professional gear to do right. The truth is most players who use profilers won't use the profiling function. Instead, they will search online user libraries or buy high-quality ones created by third parties. I personally don't want to sit around auditioning sound like that. At the end of the day, I think choices about gear center on the player's outlook AND his needs.
It’s really how important the difference is to you when you compare it to hauling one or two amplifiers or playing every gig with a different amp/cabinet/microphone combination. That simple.. nobody doubts that the real hing is better
I need a video with even more detail haha like I need someone to start at square one with this stuff, I’m just now making the switch from acoustic to electric and there is just SO MUCH information out here
I’m proud of so proud of this guy. He really dug in and it shows.
I honestly think its more of a feel thing than an actual sound thing nowadays. I own a Kemper and while i absolutely get its not for everyone and you really have to be willing to learn and tinker, if you're in a band or you have to move your rig occasionally i'd say its a no brainer. Especially given the software support the thing still is getting and the community around it providing profiles.
I've been experimenting with my band's guitarist who was also a tube purist but gave in to a line 6 because of the weight savings and versatility. if you want a real in room sound out of your modeler/profiler, connect it up to a power amp (if required of course) and hook it up to an actual cab instead of desk speakers or FRFR cabinets.
For most gigs I run my Kemper Stage through a Marshall power amp and 4x12. Fantastic sound and feel - it has made my very big pedalboard/analog pedals obsolete! 😮
mike, your videos are amazing. love you and the education i get from these :)
I was persuaded by all of the "Reviews", demos and advertising hype on the TONEX. I must admit that when the TONEX Pedal actually works, it sounds GREAT! At least the Models that I experimented with. The problem for me was that the first pedal that IKM sent to me was defective right out of the box, as was the warranty replacement pedal ... we got that pedal going for a while with the help of IKM Tech Support Team ... when they finally got around to contacting me. That Pedal failed permanently and had to be replaced. My 3rd pedal failed during a "successful" firmware update! That was enough for me. My advice: Stay away from the TONEX Pedal and IKM Products. This whole experience ... buying a product in March and not having a working pedal for most of the time I "owned" (until August) it was just unacceptable. To add to that, the hurdle that IKM puts between "Tech Support" and the customer is ridiculous. I'm still waiting for my refund ... and I will not be buying any more IKM products.
Yikes!
Dude. Your playing is so mature and smooth for 8 years of playing!❤
I’ve owned a fair few modelling solutions but always head back to a traditional amp setup. To oversimplify it it is very similar to people who play retro video games. Emulators allow the exact same experience but with massively more scale, convenience and reliability, yet people still want the original hardware in their droves. It’s kind of an irrational thing, but so are many things in art. We like what we like and it’s all OK.
It is a feel thing. One has to play what feels most inspiring.
I still like my Boss ME-25 pedal which sounds better with a headphone adapter or a short cable in the headphone slot while recording or using an amp. With all my gear, I don't feel like I need a new multi effects pedal and it is so easy to set up tones with the Boss-ME 25 which has great clean channel settings. I even like to use Bias FX 2 (my favorite sounding plugin for guitar out of all the new guitar plugins I have heard) when recording music with my computer, but I have a mic to use with real amps if I wanted to use it. Heck, I might even try using some of the Boss-ME 25 settings as a boost for a tube amp.
The Line 6 Helix models on a component level. Individual transistors, and capacitors, and even light bulbs for FX that have an optical sensor are modeled and strung together in the signal path. That's what sold me. (Along with a bunch of other awesome features.) :) Happy user since I got mine in the first wave out of Sweetwater.
I use mostly 4 patches on a standard gig. Essentially a Vox AC-30, a Fender Twin, a Marshall Plexi, and a Revv Generator (Mostly the Vox, though.). Using a Firehawk 1500 for stage volume, and direct to FoH from the Helix to the house. Never thought I'd be this happy with my rig!
i left tube amps in the early 2000's. sick of back pains and the maintenance. i got a "good enough" tone for years. but when the axe, kemper, etc came out my tones were as good as any of my tube amps and zero maintenance. top modelers today can sound and feel just as good as any tube amp.
I think your playing is amazing for only 8 years! I have the UAFX Dream 65. I really like it allot!
Thanks for your analysis. As for myself, I use tube amp when I want to fill my room with a deep tone resonating, the feel will always be unique. But when I want to record, I use amplitube, it's so much easier, the sound is nearly perfect for someone who will hear it through a computer. I'm not playing on stage but I totally understand that people want the most versatile and easy to use gear. Nowadays the gear as so much evolved that I think everyone can choose what's more convenient and good sounding stuff.
Hey Mike, you have a very good channel. I enjoy the topics you cover. As for modeling/profiling gadgets, they're great. They provide a convenience that can't be overlooked. I have an old Positive Grid Bias Amp 2. It works very good for recording late at night. The sound quality of these new gadgets is impressive. I still use my tube powered Mesa Boogie amps for live venues. Unfortunately, Detroit (my town) doesn't have enough qualified live sound techs to run sound at the medium to small venues. Sad to say....Detroit is loaded with an army of Helen Keller sound techs. (no disresect to Helen) Not many techs understand how to mix a direct feed with drums and vocals. It's always a bummer when your friends come up after a show and tell you that they never heard your guitar during your set. This is typical in Detroit. So, bands pretty much know that they have to depend on using a real rig at the medium - to - small venues in Detroit. Not sure which cities have the qualified sound techs but Detroit is very thin in that area. Good luck to all of you out there.
I Use a Headrush Pedalboard that I can't live without. For the live settings that you describe I send my final signal to front of house but I still bring my Orange head and 2 x 12 cab. I send the same signal through the effects return on the Orange so I am just using the power circuit and then I have my own amp behind me to provide as much volume as I may need and to also stand out from the mix. Running my final signal through the Celestions in my cab doesn't result in perfect fidelity but in a beer soaked club that is never noticed. What's funny is one of my go to modeled amp settings is an Orange which is funny playing a modeled Orange through an actual Orange head.
Couldn’t they put a tube circuit in a modeler to give it the analogue warmth? A few keyboards do that, like the Korg SV-1 or Hammond XK series.
This cool, I’m an older player and sort of stuck on my AC30, but perhaps one of these days I’ll try one. I did get the Vox Cambridge 50 which has decent modeling of 8 amps and an app I’m to lazy to use. It’s fun at low volume but can also get over a rock drummer.
Excellent video, you’re one of the few using clean sounds so I can actually hear your tone. I’ve been playing and recording since the 70’s and have used everything. I can honestly say the new gear is way better. Both guitars and amps. I’ve switched to digital and find the Headrush board gives me everything I need and easy to carry. Consistent sound and no replacing tubes and other parts. Dos it look as cool as my old Marshall stack or Vox, absolutely not but so much easier to use and get killer sounds.
The good thing about tubeamp it feels you are actually playing your guitar... the string vibration is more breath and even in clean tone the sustain of each note is float in the air.... 😊 like inhaling a fresh air in the forest...
Hmmm. Interesting. I drifted from the other extreme & back, then met in the middle. Started with a Line6 modeler, grew into a fat vintage tube amp, kicked around a Kemper for a bit, but finally recently downscaled to a couple properly gain staged Effectrode HiFi valve tube units. ...The Firebottle into the Blackbird dumble/fender sim with a Helios fuzz on the 2nd (isolated) output, and viola, those 3 units cover the full range of tones from clean to fully saturated with eq that takes you all the way up to treble booster territory, and yet they still undeniably compress & distort just like beautifully calibrated valve tube circuits they are. Straight into delay & PA or di to DAW & monitors. Pure tones, w zero lag, no phase probs, no ground loops, no hum, no noise, no digital hard clipping, no mic'ing hassles.
Just bought the NUX Amp Academy pedal. 12 different amp models, cab simulation, price around 200 Dollars. Perfect for our rehearsal situation with electronic drums. Still love my Marshall though!
There is one factor that tends to make alternatives to real amps very attractive, and that is the fact that pro quality amps have become extremely expensive over the past 20 years or so, and the decline of music retail means that a lot of people simply aren't going to have the opportunity to go to music stores and even find the amps they might wish to try out to see if they are compatible with their music tastes and style. The idea of dropping $2500 on a single amp and then not liking it is, or just having it not be appropriate for one's needs is daunting, especially considering the costs of shipping and resale fees from the popular secondary market websites. And buying multiple amps is that much more of a hassle.
For a lot of people, the idea that they can purchase a small digital unit, and if they don't like one sound, they can for a cost of next to nothing, or even nothing, change every major aspect of their sound, is a huge relief. I have the advantage of age and experience, so I know after playing out for 30 years exactly what I want from my gear, but a lot of younger musicians won't have that advantage, and a lot of hobbyist musicians may never even intend to play live gigs, and there's nothing wrong with that.
I think there's a fourth amplification possibility that we're only beginning to scratch the surface and that's digital amps that are not models or profiles of analog amps. I think the Boss Katana is kind of getting there with the generic sounding names and there are many ways it can go, but imagine a digital amp (or pedal) that just has great sounds.
Maybe it could start with blending the tonal characteristics of, say, a Vox and an Fender or a Marshall and a Mesa Boogie. As people get better and better at recreating the tones of classic amps, I think it could be really cool to take it a step further and craft completely new and unique "amps" entirely in the digital sphere.
And then someone will make a mini pedal can simulate the Katana - the last digital amp you'll ever need!
The Helix line is already doing that, and some of their custom models are extremely good sounding.
@@lonnieezell That's cool. I'll have to check it out sometime.
Slow down now no need for innovation!
I think a big difference is do you have to move and carry your amp somewhere or is it never leaving a room? If you have to carry it places more than once in a while, it gets old fast and tube amps can be finicky.
Personally I say just pick whatever it is that makes a sound you like and go with it. I mean, Brian May used the Deacy on tons of tracks and for years no one knew it was a homemade solid state amp.
I don’t think you understand the tears that well up in my eyes when you don’t sing at the end. Ruins my whole evening 😂 great video Mike!
I have a 1974 50w Marshal head I've had for donkey's years, I got a Kemper about six years ago and I got an Axe-fx III about 18 months ago. Crucially I don't own many pedals, only two, and this makes a difference to the equation. My experience is:
I don't use my Marshal any more. Noise. Hassle recording it. I keep meaning to get a good attenuation/IR box for it but so far I've always had other priorities. So it gathers dust despite sounding really good and seriously authentic - if cranked of course.
The Kemper has a fundamental flaw - it's great for playing a good profile capture with all EQs and gain at noon, i.e. settings as profiled, but if you want to tweak the EQ or the gain etc it does not respond authentically 'cos obviously it can only have generic EQ and gain algorithms (although the new thing they've brought out recently seeks to address that). If you got a bunch of your own amps then you need to profile each one several times at the settings you typically use. If you also got your own pedal board it works fine and you don't have to use the very mediocre Kemper effects. Since I have neither the multiple amps nor the pedal board I was left with just the deficiencies of the Kemper profiling system.
The Axe-fx I use all the time now. End of. It sounds amazing. The amp models and effects respond authentically to tweaking, the presets are by far the most usable and the effects are excellent. For example models of amps that have both a preamp and a master gain knob have them in the Axe-fx too and they interact authentically, something the Kemper cannot do. I make my own patches now exclusively so I do understand the one major downside to the Axe-fx range for gigging and session musicians - it's the worst option by far for programming/tweaking patches on the unit itself so if you need to do that on the road realistically you need a laptop with you as well to run the Axe-edit software. But I play at home so this is not a problem for me. Axe-edit makes making patches a snap.
So for me the Axe-fx beats the Kemper into the ground. For those with their own amps and pedal boards and their own signature sound, the equation is different since a good Kemper profile of your own amps at your preferred settings will sound almost indistinguishable, to all intents and purposes identical in a mix so long as you leave all EQ and gain controls at noon, and your pedal board is still your pedal board.
So I have owned several moderlars and many real apps. I settled down with the axe fx 3 . I was very happy with its tones when I bought it and loved how it's gotten more accurate as time has led to newer updates. I will also say tone x was a huge game changer. Both units are amazing. One is a all in one and the other is an amazing amp
I have been playing for 20+ years and I was using a Digitech Genesis and Genesis 3 amp modelers long before the Axe FX,Kemper Profiler,and a Synergy and plugins were all over TH-cam.when things were more simpler and more affordable…and the thing still works and does the job and sounds Fire still.
#BUFFALO
#NEWYORK
for the title answer... imo...not a lot of guitar player stop using the amp...for demo,fun n practice its ok for modeller...but for the real deal...micing amp,its like in vegas wining the jackpot...
good playing btw... 🎸
I sold my great Tube Amp last Month. No more to say. I use ToneX now! Good Video. Like!!!
i knnew there were amp modelers in the sub 1000 dollar range but idk why i couldnt find it on my own googling. thanks for this video
They sounded great! I go wet dry with and modeler and an amp. I am intrigued by profiling but don't have the time! Great vid!
I used to use a Line 6 Pocket Pod to play though headphones or an amp when i was in high school. Had the Line 6 Spyder 3 and 4 and a Peavey Vyper and now a Vyper VIP. Best friend's dad played through a Line 6 Pod, and my brother got a Line 6 head and cab with lots of effects and amp models. Very cool to see more tools become more accessible to experiment with, but i def focused too much on gear and not enough on practice and learning lol might try playing through my PC and practicing again
I got a Princeton reverb, with the mindset that it was a smaller amp so perfect for studio/home playing , and can get natural breakup. I’m concerned for people if they think that amp isn’t loud, holy crap, I couldn’t use it pass 2.5 volume and had to return it
It might be loud for home use but definitely struggles next to a drummer
@@_kqcper_332 for sure. I was just amazed at how loud it was for solo home use. Quick way to lose your hearing!
Ya should of got the tone master version. Not sure if there’s an effects loop in yours or not but if there is I recommend a little black box pedal and it’ll tame that amp into awesome bedroom use tone.
Can't blame you for returning but an attenuator would've made it more usable. It's more money you have to spend, especially for a good one, but I can have a blast with my Boogie and not bother anyone in my apartment building.
@@Cr8z13 cool ,which attenuator do you use ?
They all sounded great, the real amp sounded the best to me, very closely followed by the toneX profiler and the UX dream was my least favorite, it was the right model, maybe the eq was off
I’ve had the Kemper, the Iridium ( to my ears the best of all), the Simplifier, the Dream ‘65. Tried amp plugins as well (UA Deluxe ‘55, Scuffham (the best imho), Neural, Amplitube
Handy for recording processed guitar sounds and avoiding excessive volume. But otherwise, tone and dynamics especially for clean sounds are just not comparable , no matter how hard I tweak them.
So back to my 50’s and 60’s Fender amps , SM57 and/or E906 mics and on we go
The Strymon Iridium is the only thing I’ve used that’s been good enough to compete with my Fender. I sometimes prefer it for recording.
You have great guitar tone. I really enjoyed those playing samples.
It’s option paralysis, the quick answer is own 1 of each
I've watched several of your clips, Mike. Great Channel!
The thing is are you looking to get a more full experience from an amp modellers (where it will better replicate the whole amp when changing settings) or are you looking to get an exact sound of an amp from a profile (where changing the settings can vastly change the sound). Now Kemper jumps in with Liquid Profiling, this is gonna get interesting and don't forget NAM.
Where I live here in Australia a "real" amp is basically never gonna happen unless you are a doctor or a lawyer, they are just too expensive, so, it's always gonna be modelling or capturing, a "real" amp is just so limiting and you'll be saving money with the modeller/profiler. Even then the HeadRush Prime is $1,200 USD, here in Oz $2,199 AUD.
Nicely done.
(Was looking for info in another direction but I ended up watching it anyway.)
I have been using mid range fx and solid state amp for past 20 years, at home/no gig, just some jamming. Some were good and some were ney. Only 4 years ago i started to use tube amps and individual pedals and now i honestly can't go back now, the feels and tones of tube amp are just so mesmerising.
Ok, to be fair, i haven't try kemper, helix and those current high end mfx to says that they are not worth to be explore again.
Still haven't come close to a real valve amp. Good video
We played a nice theater a few weeks ago. The sound tech saw my Headrush and said, "I love those things." When we were packing up at the end of the night, he said, "We had {well known guitarist with well known affinity for vintage tube amps} in here not long ago and you got a better tone than he did with no mucking about."
I use wonderful modeling amps (Spark40) for convenience. I use pure old vintage tube amps thru real great speakers and cabs when it matters.