I love how guitarists in 2024 are OBSESSED with portability, meanwhile even the smallest 4 piece drum set is like 1000x more annoying to haul, load and setup than a half stack.
it’s just the current trend, remember that 10 years ago everyone was obsessed with their axe fx and 8 string guitars… the guitar industry is marketing at bedroom players because they most likely don’t have a definite sound so they’re most likely to get the latest online gear trend
well which is the reason why sharing the drumkit amongst bands or relying on a backline kit from the venue and only bringing cymbals and snare is the most common thing in touring. I know, because I am a live engeneer in a club without a backline kit an so I get to deal with A LOT of annoyed bands who have to bring their kit (or straightup are not able to bring their kit so I have to rent one).
There is only one rule: MARKETING IS KING. None of this is new. 20 years ago I bought a Boss GT-8, and the forums were full of people discussing how it was better than an amp, more versatile, etc. People were never satisfied, and after complaining how their GT-8 sounded worse when put into the front of, say, a Marshall head...lead to people using FRFR speakers. Even then, they complained about fizziness, the tones, etc. People sold their rigs and went all in on these "modelers", although we just called them multi-effects...although the GT-8 was the first floor multi effect unit with quite good amp "models" and even cabinets. People would try the FRFR route, get frustrated, switch BACK to pedals (this was at the very beginning of the glut of pedals, booteek makers) and arguments flew. Sound familiar? This was TWENTY YEARS AGO. Think about that. 2024 and what's the difference? Nothing, really. Sure, the tech is better. Are people making better music? No. Are players growing by leaps and bounds? No. Is live music making a huge comeback in local venues? No. But...are guitar equipment manufacturers making heaps of cash over all this? YES. Are guitarists still chasing tone dragons and arguing over absolutely every possible angle? YES. If you want to spend the next twenty years of your guitar life going around in circles, spending money, chasing gear and arguing over what's "better", the only people who benefit is the guitar manufacturing industry. You will not progress. You will not get better. You will primarily SPEND TIME and MONEY. And at least with the money, you can get some of that back. I saw all this and fell for it for about one year, when I got my GT-8. I still own it, and for a reason far more important than its functionality (it's still a phenomenal piece of gear) I keep it to remind me that no matter how good all these new things that come out, Kemper, Fractal, etc, nothing is more valuable than TIME. Don't waste endless years chasing tone dragons. Don't bother yourself with these marketing and industry driven attempts to get your money. Find out what works for you best, buy that and get PLAYING. Write some music, get out there. Don't spiral into a hole of consumerism pretending to be art. This is a business to them. Buy a Tiny Terror, Kemoer, Fractal or whatever your situation requires and carry on. It's not important that itnis the "best". Just minimize the spending (and wasting) of time and money and focus on becoming a better guitar player. In another twenty years, you'll be far better off for it.
well said. I'm 25. figuring out what i like and i don't like. ive got about 30 pedals, a blues jr, and an orange micro dark with a 1x12. and a half a dozen guitars. it's hard not spending more money cause today i think i need a jcm800
Also something I forgot to mention that I've noticed is that there isn't as strong a market for 4x12 cabinets as there used to be. I can find an abundance for sale second hand at heavily discounted prices and yet they seem to sit for a very long time. Just an observation.
Great content once again thanks! Also leaving it there for your own assessment, should ou get any interest in a new topic to investigate: the new version of GHS fast fret...suprisingly haven't seen this that much on TH-cam even though it seems to get a ton of complaints from their customers'base. They drastically downgraded this popular product (essential to many) while keeping prices high and bring up trendy "eco friendly" justifications while the product itself is actually way less reliable and sustainable than before. cheers
I’m really happy to hear this since I always wanted to play a show of 3 fullstacks wall of 6 4x12 speakers and for the price they always were there was no chance. Allready bought two cheap 4x12s last year but thought it was just coincidence. Now I realize there is not so big market for them. Also since having private practice place is starting to get hard and people are not able to store 4x12s. Also big part of it.
it.s the same with large and heavy combo's like a fender twin / super reverb /bassman or marshall bluesbreaker , you can buy them 2e hand for under a 1000 euro's overhere in Holland , but nobody is buying them , and now you have the fender tonemaster series wich have the same sound and are a lot lighter and more practical in many way's . so yeah , the times they are a changing .
Combos can look cool. I love how AC15s, AC30s, Jazz Choruses, Fender tweed and blackface combos. Maybe I'm the weird one but for me they're cooler than stacks.
depends on the manufacturers really. the AC30s and fender twin reverbs are still pretty sexy looking combos today. manufacturers need to step up their game in making combos look good.
@@edimabadcats and mesas small combos sound good and all, but the front facing controls just arent practical for a combo, and also none have kick back legs like were found on stuff like twins and AC amps. companies need to see that small combos are the way, but in a way where the musician can use and hear them on stage, and let PA do the rest.
@@flyingrat492 Put the amp on a chair. It raises the amp and gives you a limited ability to tilt it. Still not great, but way better than aiming all of your sound at your legs and feet.
@@mal2kscI’ve got a bunch of tilt stands, I can’t just magic a chair in a small venue and that’s my problem here, both are just another thing to bring along, whereas a pair of kickback legs add practically nothing to the size and weight of an amp and are also more practical
Remember. Manufacturers don't want the best solution. They want us all going round in circles buying and selling and buying and selling but never finding out what's best for us until we have spent a fortune.
If that’s true then why isn’t there just a manufacturer who sees this and does make the “best solution”. Then they’d be insanely rich right? That’s now how economics works unfortunately, supply is based off on consumer demands, like he stated there are different eras of guitar amps and it all boiled down to the technology available and way was in at the time. It’s as simple as they provide what people want, not the ladder like you’re suggesting.
I used 1 pedal and a bass amp for over 20 years until last year.when hurricane damage paid for a helix floor. There are way too many options. I like it though. I never fretted over tone as I practiced too often to worry. I have a friend with a half million worth of gear and has never used a metronome and sounds worse than some students I've had and he's played as long as me. Priorities kept me from gathering rooms full of gear. Haha
That's fair. Too many people feel the need to buy the next newest thing that comes out. Even in a studio setting I can get away with a Marshall 1959slp and an ac30 99% of the time. No need to buy the newest thing.
On stage looks: I used to play in an Australian AC/DC tribute show called Accadacca and we played a car festival, Summer Nats in 2005 to a few thousand people and we got there and I said to our manager we need extra cabs on stage to look the part! It aint ACDC without the wall; we hired from the local music shop Pro Audio who supplied them for a couple of tickets to the show. We each had 3 cabs on stage, two plugged in and one was for looks. The good old days.
Oi, that's nothing... I once saw Yngwie Malmsteen at the state theatre in Sydney. Man that was such a big wall that the US could just put Yng on their southern border!!
Once electronics get involved people keep tryin g to mess with it to no end. Violin players arent sitting around waiting on the next big thing for violin, they just play the damn things.
Their instruments by inception aren’t electrical and electrical violins cover the same music and don’t usually use effects so we are in entirely difference spaces when comparing to lineage
Kids today will never know the joy of being in a band that has to carry an 8x10 bass cabinet and 2 sets of 4x12 guitar cabs out of a basement, load into a van, unload at a gig, carry them up 2 flights of stairs to set up, wonder where the singer is, only to find him sitting at the bar, holding his microphone bag. Then comes the blank look and 'What? I brought all my stuff in already. I figured I'd grab a beer.' Oh..... having a drummer with a 20 piece, triple kick drum setup factored into that equasion, too. 😆 Aaaaaahhhhh..... the good old days.
I gig a Marshal DSL 40 combo (the older one, not the CR), and it does just fine at clubs, weddings and conventions, and I don't even crank the volume past 3.5/4.
Everything said here is 100% true. The biggest issue in the guitar community is people with set in stone sound theory’s based on nothing. All it does it turns people into idiots and makes people waste money trying to chase something they don’t understand.
I've noticed the same thing as of late. Aside from 'fly gigs' a lot of musicians are wanting 'stage sound' for not only themselves but also for audience in the front rows in smaller venues. Then you have people bringing cabs and poweramps or FRFR's and making their 'travel size' roughly the same as a traditional 'amp / tube amp'. Yes, I think combos, especially tube combos will be another option that will start seeing more popularity soon. That said, I think we are finding there are a lot of tools for different contexts for guitarists using as much or as little gear as required---and that's great! PS. I think more and more people are going back to tube amps (lunch box or tube combos) because the 'on stage' sound tends to sound much better and doesn't require as much 'fiddling' as a lot of modelers. Moreover, 'smaller bands' can often get into trouble if they rely too heavily on going direct to a PA without any on-stage sound option because there will be venues with horrible PA's etc.
The point of modellers isn't physical size. Low stage volume and perfect tonal consistency is the point. Modellers are amazing for working guitarists, you won't hear any complain about it. For some reason it's all bedroom guitarists with their overpriced tube amps complaining about it. There's nothing fun about playing on stage with 2 guitarists and a bassist all blasting out of full stacks. It might sound good from the audience but the stage is just noise, you can't hear anything, even IEMs can't help much. Sure if you're a punk band I guess it's cool to be loud and sound like shit but for serious musicians loud amps are just a pain in the ass we had to put up with since there was no alternative, now there is.
I work in a big music shop in Australia, and the trend I’ve noticed at the moment is definitely towards portability and convenience, so modellers are certainly the popular choice. Most of the responses I get from customers are basically “I just turn up to the gig with a pedal and my guitar, plug into the PA and it’s as simple as that”, I’ve noticed a lot of touring bands switching to modellers as well who previously would have used amps exclusively, but I’d say that’s down to the cost of touring now being astronomical. I think if they started making amps (including heads) lighter and have built in silent recording and xlr/cab sim outputs that would be the best direction. You could feasibly use it at home without a cab just direct, and then hire or borrow a cab for gigs, which even then wouldn’t be entirely necessary.
If a big name amp builder produced a 1x12 in solid state that sounded good, and had effects loop, headphone out, DI out with cab sim, power scaling, and all the other MIDI good stuff, it could win a big market share.
The Laney heads (SRT SLS something) seems to keep their value, never seen any in the wild though. Peavey made a nice one years ago (20W IIRC, USB also). Lately Blackstar St. James (also with combo option) and Yoyo / Bantamp. Maybe the nu-tube lines comes through, like a Vox MV50 with decent features.
In ten years we'll all be eating zee bugs, living in a 150 s.f. pod inside a Fifteen Minute open air prison, using our Digital ID to participate in Society, collecting UBI...at least so long as we're up to date on the latest injection that supports the current psy-op, and being so happy that we own nothing. At least that's the future the psychos in charge want for us.
I still prefer my tube amps, a 4 x 12 cab and pedalboard of stomp boxes. I have a Helix and a Headrush pedalboard as well as a bunch of PC plug-ins but they just don't have the same thump and presence of my tube amps. I do love the modeller for recording purposes.
Don't know about the Headrush but the Helix having no thump I agree. That's why I sold mine and got a Boss GT-1000. Fractal Audio works for me as well but Line 6 always sounded to me as if there was some kind of hard-programmed low cut filter.
Have you tried a Kemper? I have a Headrush Pedalboard and have used the Helix Plugin aswell as other plugins I was told were good. The Kemper just has an incredible feel to it. When I first tried it I was stunned how other products are even in the conversation. I'm in the process of selling my amp, pedals and the Pedalboard
If your modeler lacks “thump,” that probably has more to do with your monitoring solution than the modeler itself. Have you tried using it with your 4x12 cab?
I’m not a gigging musician, I write and record my own music at home for fun. Up to now I’ve used a Marshall JTM60 and a Vox AC15 combo to record all the bass and guitars with. Recently I’ve got hold of a BOSS IR-2 that I’m really impressed with especially the variety of sounds, and I plan to use to record the bass and all the quieter guitar parts with. But I very much doubt I will stop using my Combos to play the key lead guitar parts through, as it the time I get to have fun and pretend to be a rockstar. Without an amp cab I won’t get feedback and even hiss that I feel is part of the sound. Plus I don’t think a lot of modern players realise what a combination of a Les Paul and a Marshall sounds like- I don’t want to lose that.
I've got the Boss IR-2. I think it's great. However, I watched the Studio Rats change the IR in it, and the sound improved massively. I tried it myself, and hey presto. Best sound I've ever had in the house. Really good. Can't wait to try it live.
"Well actually" old guy here. I think the original Lunchbox was the Gallien Krueger 250ML, which was originally released in 1983. 100 Watts stereo (50 per side). Even useable on its own for rehearsals and very small gigs with its two 6-1/2" speakers. It sounded like the 80's, but hey, it was the 80's.
It's a great combo. All the overdrive that I need, a really good speaker, and it doesn't take up too much space in my home. For anyone else reading, I would recommend buying used rather than new.
Now that's funny I ordered my Mesa Boogie in the 70's when you could communicate with both Randall and Rayven Smith. Weight wise I understand the Mesa's are hefty.
About FRFR - I think it's niche product and isn't necessary to use with modelers When playing at home - you can use studio monitors/hifi system/good quality computer speakers/headphones When playing at campfire - you can use your bluetooth speaker When playing gig - you plug in straight into PI Correct me if I'm wrong
I use FRFR for small gigs with my 4 piece band. We basically use it to amplify our already dialed in tones from our individual electric/acoustic guitar amps. We don't use modelers, but they could work for it as well. FRFR are nice because they require you to get the "sound" you want before it gets to the PA and then it does not alter or color it in any way (in theory), so you know what you are going to get and you know that the sound coming at you from your amp (used as a stage monitor) is the exact same sound going out to the audience. I have a 57 champ that I mic with a SM57 and then a Loudbox Mini for acoustic which I DI out to the FRFR. I know the sound for each guitar I want is already dialed on my presets, so I don't have to mess with the PA system very much. I don't know if that's how FRFR are supposed to be used, but that's how I have been using it haha
I plug an ISP Theta DSP into 2 powered PA speakers, the kind that can be "mains" on tripods, and also floor wedges. I already have two pair of these speakers, so I put them to use in a new application. They are relatively light weight as well. You didn't mention the scenario of jamming with friends, loud acoustic drums and no PA. You do still need loud power. Also you might want some additional air moving on stage at a gig for good old-school feedback. Remember when Brian May, Mick Ronson, Nugent, Randy Rhoads were controlling raging beast guitar rigs? If you want to play like that some stage volume is required.
@@f0rth3l0v30fchr15t Electrics exist. More robust for camping. Most folk take a music player anyway. You can adjust the volume - all the way to zero using headphones. I’ll do it my way thanks buddy.
I'm in a band that uses modelers and FRFR speakers for our stage volume, and that's just it, sometimes you play a show where you NEED stage volume. I love the ease of use of our modelers, and the things I can do using them/FRFR speakers that we just couldn't do with traditional guitar amps/cabs, but there's certain places where the sound guy may just not run guitars through the PA (I was amazed when it happened to us that we were told he wasn't going to mic up amps or run guitars through the PA. Luckily we had the FRFR speakers) or other situations where I just don't want to put that much trust in the sound guy (played a show once where EVERY band on the bill except one ran guitars direct, and you just couldn't hear the guitars for any band except the one who had amps. Since then, we always bring the FRFR speakers in case we need stage volume)
I've been using a Kemper toaster in my studio for years. Amazing piece of kit and a joy to play through. Recording both the DI and processed signals through SPDIF into the DAW, and the DI is there for re-amping, or for use with a VST plugin. Just recently, I decided to grab a Kemper Player and a FRFR amp as I plan to jam with friends more often and see what happens. The Kemper player is just great, whether through the FRFR or a decent set of headphones. Being able to use it as an audio interface and track with it (even though the 44.1Khz sample rate limit is a bit annoying) is also pretty amazing. The portability plus the sound quality is hard to beat. It's the best of all worlds for me. I am not sure if there is really a need for it, but I could see companies combining modellers/profilers into a powered cab at some point, as that is a gap in the market.
I’ve thought about this topic for quite a while now, and if we do indeed see a return of combo amps, I just find it so funny that we’ve pretty much come full circle back to the days of the line 6 spider. In essence, a digital modeler with a fairly flat response speaker. Now that technology has improved in the digital modeler world, I’m definitely not opposed, I just think the frfr speaker/cab side of the equation needs to catch up to the advancements that have been made to the modeler side of things. There just doesn’t seem to enough traction on the frfr front or the “go-to” frfr that people talk about, like there is for the modelers. I know there’s been several attempts the last few years, but everything that’s been released just seems to fizzle out after the marketing hype is over and actual consumers get their hands on the product. i.e, fender frfr, L6 powercab, kemper kab, etc… I’m sure they’re decent, but nobody’s really talking about them like they do about their modelers. Once there’s shit talk and “frfr wars” on forums at the consistency of the modeler wars, then we’ll know we’re at that point.
Something people never mention is the efficiency of certain speakers. I’ll always choose a lower efficiency speaker like a greenback type speaker which can have a 97bd efficiency as opposed to vintage 30s and other speakers which have 100+db. The lower efficiency speakers allow you to get the amp further into working territory at the same volume and also be lighter at the same time.
You're missing the one things about modellers that people love. The ability to essentially switch amplifiers mid show digitally. Also the abilty to easily run stereo.
I’m speaking from the bass world and what you are talking about is starting to hit our market. We have been playing through digital amplification for a while now. All bass amp companies are doing it. It’s the standard now. For ages we have had to carry a bigger load because of our 300 watt tube heads and refrigerator 8x10 cabinets. Now I can get away with a 2x10 combo at the same wattage. Add a small cabinet with the combo and now I’m pushing 500 watts. My combo weighs only 2 and a half stone and the ext. cab is only 2 stone. Most gigs I don’t even need the extra cab. Speaker technology is now going smaller as well. Phil Jones is doing great things with bass cabinets that only have 2x7 speakers at 300 watts.
It's possible to get deep response with small speakers, but good god are they inefficient. You're easily losing 10 dB across the spectrum to keep the bass from rolling off. That means pumping in a whole lot more power. The trick is finding where the weight saved on speakers and the weight gained from more amplification cross over each other.
@@mal2ksc That’s an interesting point. I have played through Phil Jones stuff before but never owned. So my experience with what you speak of never occurred to me. I know there is some companies in the biz are going to FFR speakers. It’d be curious if they are the same way or the next new thing in speakers for bass and guitar.
Just last week had my first show using in-ears and No cab on stage (well, I did bring one as backup). Just an amp, cab-sim+loadbox. I always thought that not having a cab would mean that I missed the interaction/feedback between amp and guitar. But in reality, my guitar sound was great (and easy to mix) and I did not mis the cab and stagesound at all during the whole 2 hour show. And the people in the first row where happy to not be pierced by my guitar sound :) Oh and even better, we are working on some promotion material for the band and I recorded the audio of the whole show. I wasn't that happy with one of the solo's, the timing was of. Yesterday at home. I picked up the same amp, and the same loadbox. Hooked it up to my DAW an re-recorded the solo and the sound was identical to the live recording. I could never achieve that by miking up a cab.
Been running in ears and a modeler onstage for almost 10 years. It’s the way to go. I thought I’d miss having a cab onstage too. Had to do it for fly dates. But I haven’t looked back. It’s way better. Sound guys love it too.
I'm keeping my mind open on amps. I learned long ago (back int he 80s) to be agnostic on amps. Don't get hung up on tubes, solid state, form factor, etc. If it works it works. I had a Marshall stack but realized I preferred combos for gigging. I loved rocking it out with anything from a Gallien Krueger, Randall, Crate or Peavey solid state, or a Laney or Marshall or Fender combo. I eventually got a Boogie 50 Cal combo and that became my main gigging and rehearsal amp for a decade. I loved it. But I'll try anything. I think modelers are awesome and had a Boss GT modeler a couple years ago. I'm also a fan of the Boss Katana. I'm always eager to see what new amp wonders are coming down the pike.
Keep the master at a decent bedroom volume, crank top boost or normal to taste. Sounds great by my ears, also I’m more of indie player than a metal player, and that overdrive sound suits my needs.
I have a Blue's Jr, makes enough noise for anything I'll ever do and with my Shariton plugged into it the blues never sounded so good. Unless somebody else is playing them of course.
I do the same with my AC10. Still has the classic Vox chime via actual tubes and maintains a balance between being loud enough for rehearsal and a small venue but also able to dial in a good sound at modest "home" volumes.
2001 THD UNI VALVE : BEFORE ALL. BEFORE 2006 BEFORE TINY TERROR . THD ELECTRONICS : SEATTLE WASHINGTON ANDY MARSHALL BUILDER . HAND MADE. 15 WATTS . SELF BIAS . BUILT IN DUMMY LOAD . BUILT IN ATTENUATOR. CAN USE ANY POWER TUBES. 6L6 EL 84 EL 34 KT 66 88 THD YELLOW JACKETS
I've just switched to frfr and a modeler and honestly it's amazing. Good quality, paid for impulse responses can give you any tone and sound that would usually cost thousands of pounds. Also, the weight reduction is massive. Amps are difficult to predict tonally in different environments and don't travel well. I can see why the new tech is killing off the old. It's a spiral though because without those old combos, we wouldn't have the range of tones for the new stuff to emulate. This is pretty much the Spotify effect for the guitar industry.
I think guitarists in live settings need to move back to relying on their amps and speakers for their sound instead of using PA. I've been to several concerts over the last couple years and many more over my life time. The bands that used primarily modelers and ran their stuff through PAs I could hardly tell which song they were playing. PA systems seem to handle vocals and bass better than midrange or high end so any definition of notes or tone is lost. The band either doesn't care or is unaware because they all use in ear monitors anyway. It may sound great on stage but from 10 feet into the crowd and back it all sounds like you are trying to listen to the album being played from another room. I don't have all the answers but it seems to me that bands that use actual amps on stage (a real wall of sound) sounds way better than someone running a Kemper, quad cortex, or iso through the venue's pa system.
I think this topic is very genre specific, and could possibly be specific to local music scene as well. The Fender Twin and the Vox AC30 (or clones of them) have been staples in the world of jazz, blues, country, fusion, and more classic rock styles of rock n roll for decades. For a volume sake, a Twin and an AC30 can be every bit as loud as 100 Watt Marshall through a 4x12, its just more direction so they don't spread the sound out as much. (if you've never dimed a Twin, I highly highly recommend it, they are absolute flame throwers when cranked. haha) In the world of heavier music, I think you're absolutely right through and I think it's due to more and more people getting exposed to recording guitar before performing these days. It used to be that you started a band, practiced with your big amps, and did the gigs with your big amps then you went into the studio to record. Since people like to record with the gear they spent so much money on, they recorded with their big amps, and it sounded good so who cares. But I remember, my entire life, people saying the "secret weapon" in the studio is a small combo amp, and it makes total sense. But we already owned big amps haha. Now the new players are recording and capturing their guitar sound right away, and they are learning that for the most part, an SM57 that's 3 inches from the cone, sounds pretty damn good and doesn't necessarily care about the delivery system. (Yes there are differences in sound between a types of cabs, and what not, but it all sounds good and it all create a good sound for an album) So the newer players aren't as inclined to think a huge stack is necessary.
Are they really loud the same just more directional? Sounds counter-physics to me, why more directional. Also, running a 10 W amp through the same set of speakers as a 100 W amp will be quieter. But contrary to popular belief, the 100 W amp is not ten times louder than the 10 W one but only twice as loud (loudness and its perception considering wattage is logarithmic, not linear). That said, I am not saying that a Twin run hard through a different than its stock speakers can sound fire!!!! Speakers are the biggest tonewood in electric guitar anyway :)
I started with shitty Amos and found my way to a 100 Watt stack. Then I got ahold of a Fender bronco. It was like 7.5 watts and a 6 inch speaker. Sound guys fell in love with me. Worked great in the studio too. I’m 100% modeler these days. But I did love amps. Still do. But portability reigns supreme. Line 6 helix has about 10,000 pounds worth of gear packed into about a 10 pound box.
@@ondrejkauzal8969 Yes, a Twin, a Vox AC30 and a 100 watt Marshall stack all put out 120 to 123 dB of volume. Even an AC15 can put out 110 dB of sound. Why is that? Because the AC15 and AC30 are Class A amplifiers, and without getting into the nuts and bolts of how amps work, it means they are putting out a lot more SPL per watt than the Class A/B designs of the Marshall and Fender. This is why a Fender Princeton, tiny little amp, can also put out 110 dB of sound, it's Class A. Why is a 2x12 more "directional" sounding than a 4x12? Because the typical use case of a 2x12 is the amp is sitting on the floor, and both speakers are pointed straight out. This results in a few issues, first being speakers have a "throw radius" or how wide the sound extends from them. With a 2x12 on the floor, it is throwing sound into the floor, this sound is then bouncing off the floor and combining with the original sound from the speaker, often times causing a phase issue and making the amp sound quieter. Then there is the issue of where the 2 speakers' throw range cross. Here, if your speakers are perfectly matched to one another you might head the signal get louder by about 3dB, but if the speakers are not matched then you may again hear phase cancellation. The last thing is that a 2x12 combo sitting ont he ground is typically pointed at the player's knee, not their ears. So it sounds quieter. This is why many combo amp users with a 2x12 configuration will often times use an amp riser of some sort to help avoid the floor issue. The problem with that, is when you take the amp off the ground, you lose low end resonance. With a 4x12, the throw is naturally larger because you have the extra set of speakers to throw the sound higher. The top two speakers are also angled, so their throw down doesn't cross with the bottom pair's throw up. This also makes it sound louder because now the speaker is pointed at the player's chest or head depending on how tall the player is, making it sound louder. Running a 10 watt amp through a 100 watt cab will be quieter than a 100 watt amp of the same design through the same cab, yes. (like you said, logarithmic) But here's the thing, maximum volume is rarely, if ever, used on an amplifier making the entire thing moot. In a tube amp, the only thing your wattage will really indicate to you on a functional level is how much clean headroom you have before you amp compresses and you start hearing power amp saturation. Back in the day, when PA systems were't as sophisticated as they are now, players needed 100 watts of power because they needed the amp to be able to be cranked up without over compressing. Again, if you've ever cranked a Fender Twin, or had a chance to crank a vintage Marshall 100 head, you should do it. It's really fun, but absolutely unreasonably loud haha. The amps themselves were also not as sophisticated, lacking any amount of gain in their preamp circuit, so if you wanted distortion you needed to get it from the power tubes. And that required turning the amp to 10. A modern amp can give you all the distortion you need, and if it doesn't then a pedal can add to it. No need to dime the amp and distort the power section. In a modern setting, in almost any venue you can think of, you'd never dream of turning a 100 watt Marshall up to 10. haha. You'd get kicked out of the club. It's also absolutely unnecessary given modern PA systems. Even the most modest of venues will put a mic on the guitar speaker, and that mic doesn't care about anything else but the sound coming out of that speaker. It doesn't care about the throw angles, or how the sound bounces off the floor. Just what's coming from the speaker. From an audience perspective, the lower your stage volume can be, the better it'll sound because the sound person will be able to make a better mix for the audience through the PA that way.
One thing that might be interesting would be bunch of 1x12 cabs with built in power amps and a some sort of preamp (possibly on your pedalboard). For a small gig you could bring just one powered 1x12. If you need a bit more volume, bring two of those. When you absolutely need to cut through on alarger stage bring four or even more. For those 4 or more you would likely need a car, but hey would still be easier to pack, unpack and set up than the 4x12.
Great video, as usual, man! I saw Black Label Society live back in 2009 or so. They had had a total of 8 Marshall heads powering 12 4x12 cabinets, a unique arrangement of two full stacks on either side and then a row of half stacks in front of the drum riser. You could actually tell the PA in this smaller club was mostly just blasting the vocals and drums. It was.... incredibly rock'n'roll.
@@Pikilloification I yield to your supreme and infallible knowledge of all things live music circa 2009. You were there. You know all... And all hail, God-king PiKilloification!! (All hail...)
Someone from fractal yelled at me on a forum saying their product is not meant to replace an amp and not meant to replicate an amp. It’s a “recreation of the signal chain with microphone placement so you can hear recorded guitar tones for recording, live monitoring and direct playing.” I have a fractal and I’ve used modelers since the 90’s. They are a tool but not a replacement. I will never give up my tubes, it’s just not the same no matter what anyone says. I use an fm9 with a high end frfr and it’s just okay. I’m very particular about my sound and the cleans aren’t bad at all but distorted tones just don’t sound like an amp. I’ve noticed highs missing no matter how much you play with settings. Now, fractal told me to eliminate the amp settings and use EQ emulation instead. That makes no sense whatsoever. The point of amp simulation is to sound like the amp. Simulation has come a long way but it’s not a solution yet. Bands that use modelers live, for a musician with a good ear, can absolutely hear the difference
I have a completely different vision. I think IEM setups are gonna get WAY more accessible for musicians and that's going to take care of the monitoring side of things. PA? direct output from your modeler with cab emulation included. Stage volume? with the new freed space, I think we're going to see more PA speakers added to the stage. And there you go. That's how I see it.
IEMs are already getting Crazy Affordable. I got an IEM unit from amazon thats about $125 with taxes and its really good. Its not perfect, but it gets the job done and a lot of people can attest to its quality and durability. Im also expecting Digital Mixers to start being more competitive too as IEM rigs begin to get cheaper.
I don’t know about the PA speakers part. That’s more about what the venue needs. But I fully agree with the rest. I’ve been playing IEM’s with my whole band for almost 10 years now. Only stage volume is the drums and singer. Sound guys love it. And, if the venue has a modern sound board, the band can do their personal mixes themselves on their phone. No more asking the sound guy for a little more or less of anything. As for modelers, I started using the Line 6 back in the HD500 days out of necessity for fly dates. I could just BARELY get an acceptable tone from that. But when the Helix came out, it changed that game entirely. I don’t miss tube amps at all. And I think as guitar players get ahold of the new tech for modelers, that’s what you’re going to see everywhere. If combos come back, I’m certain they’ll be loaded with modelers and a neodymium FRFR speaker.
@@MikeWiest In Ear Monitors. Instead of having speakers onstage for monitoring, you use ear buds and wireless receivers. Gives you a better mix and you can control the overall volume. Safer for your ears if you don’t blast the volume. Easier for the sound guy because of less stage volume and fewer speakers pointing onstage.
My Fender Super Reverb was heavy but I always carried it by myself, usually lifted up in both arms to cover distance, then by the handle to get it placed.
I just stumbled into a Peavy Delta Blues 115 and was blown away. I thought they only did metal machines but this things cleans are sublime! The dirt channel does get filthy but for a fuzzer like myself the clean channel is perfect for effects and they sound fantastic! Plenty of output, great reverb and solid trem it's a perfect lil 30 watter
Fender Tonemaster FRFR 12" 8 Kg The Fender is out of stock in all Europe. It's a Monster 1000W Neural QC 1 Kg It's good looking. you can play live , you can play in your home
I saw them and it was just stupid. Couldn't hear a damn thing they were doing even with earplugs. Definitely an album band for me. Glad I saw them, but wish I could've heard it, too it was so loud it just became like TV-static. What really shocks me is the Twin J. keeps pointed right at his head along with all the other amps on stage. How can he hear anything?!
Only two stacks? Thats down from the usual three! Dino Jr was Easily the loudest show ever for me and it was loud even with earplugs in. That being said, it was a fantastic show.
J is probably deaf. Decades of loud. Decades. That's one question I'd like somebody to ask him if he's ever interviewed again. J, how's your hearing holding up
@7:31 for some reasons I feel like combo amps are already making a come back with Boss Kantna, Positive Grid Spark being two of the best seller for guitar amp last year and 7 out of 20 amps were not combo amps in that list
I talked to a guy who works for all the major festivals around here not too long ago. He does sound and lights. He told me that 10 years ago, the norm for the bands coming to play were full stacks, 8 guitars for a show, boutique pedals built by some guy in his apartment, Ampeg SVT’s. Bands would be in a huge camper or bus with a 6x10” trailer full of gear. Now the same bands travel around in a van, one single 1x12” combo, Boss pedals, Line6 HD Stomp in the PA, two guitars max, bass in the PA, and no trailer full of gear. And the bands charge more money. 😂😂
"Now the same bands travel around in a van, one single 1x12” combo, Boss pedals, Line6 HD Stomp in the PA, two guitars max, bass in the PA, and no trailer full of gear. And the bands charge more money. 😂😂" The gear has always been for the players, not for the audience. ;) Thank you for relaying your experience- it is interesting to hear!
It will be modeler+flat PA for gigging with consistent tone, and vintage style combos/racks for home or studio inspiration. It already is like that for many bands ranging from local club dwellers to Metallica..
I feel like I’ve gone through all of this the last 10 years. I’ve come back around and am using a traditional pedal board with an amp modeler (NUX Amp Academy). I went a while only using in ears being happy not lugging an amp but missed the feedback and feel of an amp on stage. I then started using an Ev powered speaker and now am using an Orange pedal baby powering an Orange open back 212. This gives me everything I want. Perfect Ir Bogner 412 sound to FOH and my in ears every show, and some real cab feel (at a reasonable volume) on stage.
You'll pry my 4x12 and loud wattage tube amps from my cold dead hands. Been through the amp sim, digital modelers and analog amps. Nothing comes close to the sound, feel, and stomach punch of a true 4x12 and tube amp combo. The world can tick on with pa's and IR and axeFX. I will be in my corner half deaf with my marshalls cranked and neighboors calling the cops. Metal til' death \m/
My favourite line, "but one thing's for certain and that's a virtual 4x12 is significantly lighter than a real one". I've been looking to lighten the load for years. I have tried the modelling route, hybrid, solid state, FRFR, etc. I just never could fully bond with the digital stuff. It's missing some life and immediacy. I have an all analog signal path now. I am currently playing an AMT Electronics SH-100-4R which I love. It has a direct out and can be run without a cab. I have a traditional pedalboard with a Carl Martin "the Strip" switcher. Those things are reasonably light but that still leaves the cabinet. I use a clone of the MojoTone Slammins 2x12 loaded with G12K-85 Celestions. That is still pretty heavy and awkward. I am considering neo speakers but haven't tried any yet. I think I might try the Celestion neo V-Type. I don't think I can ever go full digital, for the reasons mentioned above. I love the tone of my all analog signal path. It really inspires me. Thanks for the video!
I had that problem with digital for years. But I was doing fly dates and didn’t really have a better option. Forced me to keep working with it. But when the Helix came out, I changed my tune. Now, I actually prefer having it onstage. My problem was holding a note and not getting any feedback or play from the cab. But either I just got used to it, or they fixed it. Because I have zero complaints about the digital realm these days.
@@VincentPeerAbsolutely, there are applications where it is pretty much necessary. I keep eyeing the Fractal AX8. You can get them pretty cheap these days.
I agree, it will be combos with not too much power. In fact, I worked 10 years on that concept and designed and built my own 20W amp with an integrated microphone and a slightly tilted speaker. So I can hear myself very well on small stages while there's also a real mic signal available to send to a PA. It sounds REALLY good! Way better than any amp I owned before.
The FRFR speakers from GR Guitar use Neodymium magnets. They are insanely light weight and they sound AWESOME! (Tough to find in the USA though. Only a few dealers.)
I'd been looking to go smaller for years. Had a Legacy III when they first came out, a 5150 III as well, but when I saw the Victory V4 Kraken pedalboard amp, I was hooked. Now I make one trip from my car for gigs. My 2x12 cab, my pedalboard bag with cables, and my guitar on my back. Simple set up, light weight, and sounds killer.
I split my signal before the IR Block in my helix, and I have a hotone loudster and 30ft speaker cable in my gig bag. if theres is a cab in the venue I can use then ill run it for stage volume and run the IR to the FOH. benefit is i can turn up my volume on stage for monitoring without it messing with the sound engineers gain staging at the desk.
I have a Fender Vaporizer 2 x 10 Combo that's crazy loud for its size . But everything else has 12" speakers . Lower diameter speaker voicing just doesn't sound right to me . Perhaps , in the future , we may see combo amps with different types of speakers in them that are better at reproducing certain frequencies.
I've thought about trying to build foam and composite cabinets for my rig because I'm just tired of heavy amps. I've even considered building a 2x10 pedal board amp combo where the lid is basically a baffle board with two speakers and a simple tone stack, class d amp. I could even go stereo that way.
I had a killer 100W tube Boogie stolen in 1985, why? - because fecker was so bleeding heavy that I'd left it in the car overnight out on the street instead of lugging it up the stairs after a late gig. There is a lot to be said for keeping amp weights at manageable levels.
I’m not say combos won’t have a comeback but to have that claim in the thumbnail and hardly mention modelers at all with no explaination? Older guys want something good for their spine while younger guys want convenience, what is lighter and more convenient than a tonex or quad cortex? You’re not getting the “in the room” sound but you are hearing exactly what is being put out of the monitor with little to no stage volume. It sounds the same every night. It’s more reliable and they’re built like tanks. They’re more low profile, I stick my entire rig in my guitar case. You can plug any modeler in a cabinet with a power amp to get that in the room sound. Tech is getting to the point where it’s indistinguishable from real amps no matter how much perfume language is used, and with neural dsp’s plugins, some prefer the sound. How is this not the future? It’s only going to get better and more accessible to the point where only the delusional can claim it doesn’t sound as good. To be able to have almost any sound as opposed to one as well? Any popular amp? Any popular pedal? Any popular cab? Anybody being able to afford a stereo rig? The only argument I see against this is guitarists’ infatuation with the past and the value of their gear because of it. Otherwise modelers will be the biggest trend and advancement ever in electric guitar history and it won’t render real gear extinct but with these prices nowadays, it’ll be less common.
Modellers are all very well but you still need a speaker, cab or some kind of monitor which is ok if you play the kind of venues that have things like that in place. Also modellers rely on technology which is constantly evolving and very quickly makes last year's products obsolete. A small amp can last a lot longer and is unlikely to be out of date in the future
I’ve mostly looked at combos exclusively for my bedroom and largely potential live experience needs as a way of keeping the cost down, and also only looked at solid states for the same reason. I was gonna do whatever I wanted anyway, but I’d love to be a trendsetter.
The Classic Rock distorted/overdriven guitar sound I think is becoming specialized nostalgia. I'm using an amp to plug various instruments into it- steel guitar, electric piano, bass, lopped drums, so what is working for me is lots of power, heavy, high headroom, solid state amp that "takes pedals" well. Peavey Black Widow speaker, I found a half-tube Music Man head, Bassman 10- its sort of the opposite of light and portable, but I'm really amping to the max- just plug anything into one of those big heavy high-headroom amps and you're keeping up with the band and having a great time right away! I can't be fiddling with speaker sims and scrolling through a menu at the gig.
When I was a young guy in my first regularly working band, the two guitarists both had Marshall stacks with the heads at 100W. This period in my city was the tag end of big live venues and more small rooms being the gigging space. Some of them really small. Both guitarists eventually got their Marshall heads rewired down to 50W. Jumping forward several decades and as well as venues being small, it's all small combos and/or Modelers and speaker boxes. I was in a band for a little while where the lead guitarist had a modelling rack and a speaker box. Can't remember the exact set up, but it was really cool. It never sounded quite right to me, and I did suggest maybe running it through a tube pre-amp of some kind. I don't know if that is possible/the done thing or not. The guitarist looked at me blankly and said, but the sounds are all modeled. I dunno, his call after all. I left it at that. But they don't sound quite right to me, maybe I'm just too old scholl, and or a bit deaf.
A very well made case. The further it went, the more I was convinced of the argument. The clincher: line outs and XLRs out of modern lightweight combos, means you can do it all.
I believe the future is quality tube power amps. I’ve got a really nice 112 Engl cab that is a lifer as far as I’m concerned, but I’ll always try new things with heads. Currently running a Friedman Runt 20 with a UAFX Lion and Stomp in 4cable which gives me a vast array of cleans to go with the Runt’s overdrive. If I didn’t have the Runt I’d get a Fryette 50 power amp and a Friedman IR-X
As someone who gigs multiple days a week every week, I for one agree with you! I have a VHT classic 6 that I use and has been the perfect gigging solution. I run my pedalboard through the front of the amp, use the 12" speaker for onstage monitoring, take the line out of the back and put that through an IR loader and out to the PA. I've never been happier with our stage volume/house mix
There's only 3 local shops near me, but all of them are stocked with combos, modelers, and small head and cab stacks. They still sell a couple stacks, but most amps I see locally are smaller.
I have a 50w JCM800 1x12 Combo that is loud enough to shake the windows on 4. I played it in a loud metal band with the other guitarist using a 5150 and it never had an issue being heard.
I think you’re right that things will turn to modeler/combo amps, (think black spirit, or boss katana) but I think it will fall back to head/speaker cabinet. A combo amp is unfortunately heavy, depending on what’s in it, 1/12, 2/12, etc. but splitting the cabinet from the head allows the user to decide, do I need a 2/12 for this gig or a 1/12 cause I’m going through front of house so all I need it for is monitoring or whatever. So the versatility of having the head split from the cab I feel just makes more sense… and if you don’t even need the cab… you just bring the head and use a line out… but you’re probably right that combos will make a surge, then they will probably get cut into amp/cabinets.
I gig with an AC15. At small, unmic'd gigs it's more than enough power. Anything bigger will have PA support. I truly don't understand the need for a half or full stack with 100 watts outside of how it looks.
A very well thought out and clearly expressed view of the possible future direction of guitar amps. I'm only an old "bedroom" guitarist, but everything you say makes sense. I really enjoy the videos you create, keep up the good work. Thank you.
I'm using Quilter Superblock amplifiers at the moment. Best of everything in my opinion. It goes on the pedalboard and, like a modeller I can go direct whilst plugging into a lightweight 1x12 (or any cab for that matter). In fact for most of the gigs I play I power it off the pedalboard's 9v supply and run DI only or through a cab at 1w, which is loud enough for the venues I play.
I use the Victory V4 amps and a vertical 2x12. It's small footprint, and if I want I can turn up with just my pedalboard and guitar to either use backline or go straight through the PA. I get real feel from the on stage cab, don't get option paralysis or EQ nightmares from digital modelling/FRFR and I get the versatility of choosing my format.
Spot on with what I''m seeing in the guitar world. I went and bought a 100w head and a 2x12 vertical cab recently. Had always wanted one... Played it a couple times and asked myself "what am I really gaining with this thing?" the answer was about 30lbs of unneeded weight. No more volume. No better sound dynamics. I took it back and came home with a solid 1x12 combo. Infinitely more usable and portable.
Gotta admit, I almost got a Hartke 115C, but got a 410XL and HA2500. The 115C was way lighter and smaller at 61 pounds and a full 250W of power. My HA2500 pushes 250W at 4 ohms, but I have the 1 cabinet at 8 ohms, which gets 185W. Still, I love my cab and can expand it as necessary.
Hey KDH... That makes a lot of sense. One thing I would add is that classD power amps are making light solid-state non-modelling amps. I'm a fan of Quilter amps which are loud, have great tone and have a direct out for the PA.
I love how Geddy Lee mocked the whole empty cabs on stage thing by using washing machines, rotisseries, vending machines, etc, after he went to a modeller.
I don’t think you’re wrong. But, as a steady gigging player for 25 years, I’ve gone modeler and doubt I’ll go back. In 10 years I’ve played 1 venue without a PA. So I brought a combo amp to that gig. But, otherwise, it’s been a modeler. I’ve thought about an FRFR speaker. But I never bothered. If I played venues without PA, I’d probably go FRFR. But, if the future is combos, I’ll bet they have modelers and FRFR speakers in them.
Small watt combos are already the thing it's just that it hasn't really come down from the stage into ppl homes I think it started with dudes buying vintage stuff bc the smaller stuff has traditionally been cheaper than the big stuff in that regard and they afford ppl the opportunity to really open the power section up and get it warm and working so you can hear how that amp actually sounds... It's more rewarding to dime a champ than to run a twin on 2... Really deluxes have been serving this market for long time
I record every track through my tube amp head, no modeler will ever compare. Modelers can emulate all they want, but nothing beats the real thing when it works well.
I am hoping that the future is one where folks use what they feel comfortable with and can be creative with. So thankful that most solutions now are good enough to make great sounding guitar based music.
I went from 2, 4 x 12s and two heads in the 70s, to a single Vox MV 50, that looks like a clothes iron, and two tiny Vox 8 inch speakers. 50 watts and sounds amazing. Stacked on top of each other, I have to bend down to adjust it. The only thing that’s the same these days is that I still have to wear earplugs.
Yup, I agree with a lot of what you say. 4x12 cabs are a pain in the ass. Also micing up ANY cab in small venues (which 99,9% of us play at) is also a pain in the ass. Mic position is critical for a decent sound and even if you are really accurate about it (mark the sweetspot with tape) and even bring your own mic, you still have all the problems of a microphone. Other instruments on stage bleed into it, it's in the way and gets knocked over. I definitely do not miss those days. But having a dedicated cab of some sorts on stage isn't a bad thing either and I notice that quite often: In my band, I'm the only guitarist who brings a cab. All the others go fully digital. We're not professional in any way, we don't use in-ears so we could have our own monitor mix. So they rely on the soundguy of lousy bars and their beaten up monitors when it comes to hearing themselves on stage and that's problematic more often than not. While the digital-only guitarist tries to get the soundguy to tweak the monitor mix, I simply turn around and adjust my amp to my needs. I'm currently running a Laney IRT SLS (Tube pre, Trans power, sounds great, weighs nothing) through a DIY 2x12 with Jensen Tornados (Neodymium indeed). Not my dream speakers but they're absolutely fine, they're light and the catch is: I only use this cab for hearing myself on stage. The soundguy gets my guitar through an IR loader connected to the DI out of the amp (no built in IRs, just analog cab sim which don't sound too good). Note: People if you amp doesn't have a DI out, or one where the bad built in speker emulation can't be turned off: Use a splitter at the end of your FX loop and off you go! Power amp distortion is not used in 99% of modern music anyways. What I'm currently pondering is getting some kind of active full range speaker (guys...any one will do, even the cheap PA brand ones. The now trendy FRFR cabs from guitar amp brands are horribly overpriced), feeding it from the DI box link after the IR loader. This would give me the advantage of having the same sound as goes out to the mixer. I've had situations where I dialed in my amp so it sounded good with my cab but then the sound via IR wasn't great and vice versa. The cool thing about the IRT SLS is that it doesn't need a cab connected to run. Honestly I love this thing for all it is. I've never been happy with any modeler I've tried. I'm a software developer so I'm cool with tech, but when it comes to making music I do NOT enjoy navigating through menus. Also having 1000 different tones kinda overwhelms me. The IR thing is bad enough in this regard. Give me a few good sounding options and some intuitive knobs to turn, it's only rock and roll. I've also played gigs with just a good soundig distortion (amp in a box style, I've built clones of the BEOD and REVV G3/G4 which sound killer) straight into a Mooer Radar and it sounded just as good. If the complexity of modelers turns you off, there's plenty of options for downsizing today. I think good IR speaker simulation was the gamechanger a few years back. Guitar, Pedalboard with a good drive and IR loader, maybe a light active fullrange speaker so you don't depend on the local soundguy. No amp, no mics, no back pain. What a time to be a musician.
I think you're right. The need for big high powered amps were driven by the lack of decent PA systems. Nowadays PAs are/can be so large, loud AND sound good, a mp power(other than your desired drive level for power tube distortion if that's your tone) is pretty much irrelevant. In fact I know of a well known rock/Americana session guitarist who has played with Kathleen Edwards, and his main amp was a film projector based tube 15 watt 10" speaker combo that played everything from small clubs to large halls to stadium festival gigs, and without fail, he was always complimented on his tone, and never one mention about volume since it's mic'd through the PA which does all the heavy lifting anyway!!
I'd probably agree. I went the modeler route for a good long while, but this was the early days of modelers being good enough for live use, and next to no sound guys seemed to understand that I needed all my sound to come through the foldback. To get around this, I started bringing along a powered PA speaker... After a few months of doing that, I realised how ridiculous and how much more complicated than it needed to be it all was, and switched to a 1x12 combo... That said, these days I'm almost exclusively using IEMs, so having stage sound is no longer something I actually need, and I've just recently acquired a Boss IR-2 so that all I need to bring to a gig is my guitar and pedalboard. We'll see how long it lasts before I'm back to a combo again...
Considering how with a modeller you can have all the amps, cabs and fx you want, there’s no need for stack or combos. Combos might become more popular than stacks but still waaay less popular than modellers.
For the past three years mostly and this year exclusively playing an “anti-modeler” system. I have a small pedalboard with an ir loader DI at the end of the chain and my sound comes from whatever pedals I have switched on. The LPD Sixty8 wins my pick for most playable and natural amp sound and not only can no one tell it’s just pedals, but going through a 7” monitor with this rig actually does give that amp in the room feedback to me. My board can almost fit in my guitar gig bag and I roll up with a feee hand.
When I first started, the combo made sense also. Axe Fx Ultra and everything that followed offered something different, and I mean different in multiple ways. In digital chains, you can do things that would be hard to do with analog and you can throw in analog gear to your chain to boot. I would say the in-the-room feel is overall better with analog, but for me the difference is so negligible that I'm happy with an Axe 3 and Atomic CLR at band practice/rehearsal. After all, one of the biggest drawbacks of digital is it has too many EQ options, let alone everything else, just rock what works.
I found a Blackstar Artist 15 which is a 15w combo valve amp with a 1x12 speaker, a cab simulator AND a master volume knob for $425 I feel like this sucker will carry me for a while. It's used, sure, but it's simple and beautiful. I feel like this completely fits the description of the future of amplifiers you just laid out. Cheers friend for making such good and informative videos about amps!!
in regards to the power amp through a traditional cab. I've been playing with an automotive full range power amp. Its rated to 800W peak and ~300RMS. Not only can I run that to one my larger speaker cabs (6x 12" private jacks). I have the option to run it in stereo to multiple cabs, utilizing stereo effects as well. This amp and PSU combined is lighter than even the terror. Im personally using an ATX PC PSU because I knew how to wire it up. However there are plenty of 12V DC PSU's up to 1kW for
That honestly seems like a really good idea. But how do you match the impedance between the amp and the full-range speakers? I know most amps use 8 or 16 ohms, but car stereo speakers are like 2 or 4 ohms. I guess you would have to know a bit about electronics to match them up. Also, would you need something like a crossover if you wanted to split the high frequencies to some tweeters or 6x9's?
@@sidgar1 pretty with all automotive power amps the impedance just lowers the effective power output where you get distortion. In my case the "bridged" configuration, which puts the stereo channels in series, gets me the 300W @4 ohm. If say my speakers were wired to 8, it'd be ~150 (just a fraction). That's why you see power ratings on power amps on a chart of different impedances. Regarding the crossover- pretty much all the full range amps (that aren't only for subs) have a built in high pass and low pass filter. If you have speakers thatre low power or you're super concerned you can set the HPF to like 80-100hz and not have to worry. Some have a lot of variable filters when you get up on prices. A 16ohm cab can be quickly switched to 4ohm by turning the series connection into all parallel. Usually a 4x12 16ohm is 2 16's in series and the pairs in parallel. Where all parallel becomes 16/4 = 4. If you're savvy enough, you can wire in a switch that does the circuit change on the same input. Finally, multi channel amps like for 2X L/R (4 total) usually supports the bridging across all channels which gives you a billion choices like doing something crazy like each speaker in the cab getting its own channel. It's pretty much a win win but does take a little setup/wiring.
@@frjhracing I misunderstood, then. I thought you were hooking car stereo speakers to a guitar amp, but it sounds like you're also using a car stereo amp as well? Now my question is how to match the input impedance for the guitar signal? I read that a guitar uses around 1MΩ input impedance, but I don't know what a car amp uses for its input. It sounds like a really cool setup I would like to try out for myself.
@sidgar1 The setup is: guitar, (pedal board, modeler, or plugins), car power amp, guitar cab (wired in 4 ohm). 99% of the amps have RCA connections unless its fancy with an optical/digital input. So i have an RCA to TRS adapter and a really long pro audio RCA cable (not flimsy like you typically see, about equivalent build quality to a decent guitar cable). Usually what they have is a input attenuation pot which lets you change the expected line level. To be honest idk if actually works as preamp gain or if it varies the input impedance as I never checked...probably should. IT may also depend on the amp itself. I found with pedals/ guitar, modelers I just crank it all the way down to zero (no pre gain or attenuation) and I still run outputs at like 20% volume on the modeler or roughly -12db on line level (if im using PC interface and plugins) results in a decent punchy in-room volume. The thing about car amps is they just straight amplify - so its basically like having an amp always at 100%. The difference being mainly the way the amp reacts to a load. It'll only use the power based on the input and speaker load. A little sidenote is - mind you at 300W...ZERO noise. I think more of a byproduct of the really clean ATX PSU. but literally I cant tell if the amps left on even if my ear is right on the speaker. And then you turn on the modeler and get full volume. Idk of any other setup with a guitar cab of that power and no noise.
@@sidgar1 also in regard to if say you want to run the car amp through FR-FR speakers. You do essentially everything else I described except for you have to turn on the IR's on your amp models or use something like the boss IR2 ....or else itll sound like a fizzy mess. With bass, and really clean tone, it can result in something super rich but the FR speakers have to be ready for the bottom range (theres still the variable crossovers on most amps)
I also expect to have modeler/tube amp mixes: you have a real tube amp at the heart and you can access effects, you can bring your own IRs (multiple - depending on program) and you have USB connection to record DI + amp tone at the same time.
My '90s Carvin MTS3200 head has a "cabinet voiced" line out that I had to use in a pinch when I wasn't able to borrow a cab. Not the greatest sounding, but it worked! Also, in the early 2000s, Crate came out with a super tiny 100w solid-state head called the Powerblock that was intended for people to use their PODs with. It sounded awful, though, true to Crate's legendary reputation.
For one of the metal bands I play in I run a Quilter 200 watt Pro-Block set to run clean with a few pedals in front then into a 2x12. Honestly it works great for me and I don't see the need to change up that setup anytime soon as it sounds great, can get loud or quiet, and isn't too difficult to lug around all things considered.
I think it's more of a case of versatility. For example, I have a Blackstar HT Stage 100 and matching cab, an H||H IC100S with a Marshall 4 x 12 angle front, a Marshall Code 100 combo and a MooerGE300, more pedals than I can shake a stick at and various DAW plugins such as Neural DSP, Softube and McRocklin suites. I don't gig live, just record at home and all the aforementioned gear, just gives me plenty of options.
I love how guitarists in 2024 are OBSESSED with portability, meanwhile even the smallest 4 piece drum set is like 1000x more annoying to haul, load and setup than a half stack.
There’s a classical musician in my town who carries around his tympani with a uhaul lol
it’s just the current trend, remember that 10 years ago everyone was obsessed with their axe fx and 8 string guitars… the guitar industry is marketing at bedroom players because they most likely don’t have a definite sound so they’re most likely to get the latest online gear trend
well which is the reason why sharing the drumkit amongst bands or relying on a backline kit from the venue and only bringing cymbals and snare is the most common thing in touring. I know, because I am a live engeneer in a club without a backline kit an so I get to deal with A LOT of annoyed bands who have to bring their kit (or straightup are not able to bring their kit so I have to rent one).
*taps away at a drum machine with more than 4 drum parts*
Just imagine being Terry Bozzio's tech! Actually he needs a tech crew, and a whole semi trailer for his full kit!
There is only one rule: MARKETING IS KING.
None of this is new. 20 years ago I bought a Boss GT-8, and the forums were full of people discussing how it was better than an amp, more versatile, etc. People were never satisfied, and after complaining how their GT-8 sounded worse when put into the front of, say, a Marshall head...lead to people using FRFR speakers. Even then, they complained about fizziness, the tones, etc. People sold their rigs and went all in on these "modelers", although we just called them multi-effects...although the GT-8 was the first floor multi effect unit with quite good amp "models" and even cabinets. People would try the FRFR route, get frustrated, switch BACK to pedals (this was at the very beginning of the glut of pedals, booteek makers) and arguments flew.
Sound familiar? This was TWENTY YEARS AGO. Think about that. 2024 and what's the difference? Nothing, really. Sure, the tech is better. Are people making better music? No. Are players growing by leaps and bounds? No. Is live music making a huge comeback in local venues? No.
But...are guitar equipment manufacturers making heaps of cash over all this? YES.
Are guitarists still chasing tone dragons and arguing over absolutely every possible angle? YES.
If you want to spend the next twenty years of your guitar life going around in circles, spending money, chasing gear and arguing over what's "better", the only people who benefit is the guitar manufacturing industry.
You will not progress. You will not get better. You will primarily SPEND TIME and MONEY. And at least with the money, you can get some of that back.
I saw all this and fell for it for about one year, when I got my GT-8. I still own it, and for a reason far more important than its functionality (it's still a phenomenal piece of gear) I keep it to remind me that no matter how good all these new things that come out, Kemper, Fractal, etc, nothing is more valuable than TIME.
Don't waste endless years chasing tone dragons. Don't bother yourself with these marketing and industry driven attempts to get your money. Find out what works for you best, buy that and get PLAYING. Write some music, get out there. Don't spiral into a hole of consumerism pretending to be art. This is a business to them.
Buy a Tiny Terror, Kemoer, Fractal or whatever your situation requires and carry on. It's not important that itnis the "best". Just minimize the spending (and wasting) of time and money and focus on becoming a better guitar player. In another twenty years, you'll be far better off for it.
well said. I'm 25. figuring out what i like and i don't like. ive got about 30 pedals, a blues jr, and an orange micro dark with a 1x12.
and a half a dozen guitars.
it's hard not spending more money cause today i think i need a jcm800
Digitech rp500>gt8 😜
This guy gets it.
Bro I ain’t gonna read all that
There is a difference between then and now. Modellers sound much, much better now.
Also something I forgot to mention that I've noticed is that there isn't as strong a market for 4x12 cabinets as there used to be. I can find an abundance for sale second hand at heavily discounted prices and yet they seem to sit for a very long time.
Just an observation.
I used to have 4x12 spinners stand up, and 8x4 spinners flat. Made for organs, (Deep Purple) but sounded cool for guitars.
Great content once again thanks! Also leaving it there for your own assessment, should ou get any interest in a new topic to investigate: the new version of GHS fast fret...suprisingly haven't seen this that much on TH-cam even though it seems to get a ton of complaints from their customers'base. They drastically downgraded this popular product (essential to many) while keeping prices high and bring up trendy "eco friendly" justifications while the product itself is actually way less reliable and sustainable than before. cheers
I’m really happy to hear this since I always wanted to play a show of 3 fullstacks wall of 6 4x12 speakers and for the price they always were there was no chance. Allready bought two cheap 4x12s last year but thought it was just coincidence. Now I realize there is not so big market for them. Also since having private practice place is starting to get hard and people are not able to store 4x12s. Also big part of it.
it.s the same with large and heavy combo's like a fender twin / super reverb /bassman or marshall bluesbreaker , you can buy them 2e hand for under a 1000 euro's overhere in Holland , but nobody is buying them , and now you have the fender tonemaster series wich have the same sound and are a lot lighter and more practical in many way's . so yeah , the times they are a changing .
Ton of 4x12 for sale but 2x12 cabs are harder to find used
Combos can look cool. I love how AC15s, AC30s, Jazz Choruses, Fender tweed and blackface combos. Maybe I'm the weird one but for me they're cooler than stacks.
Agreed! I love a good combo amp.
depends on the manufacturers really. the AC30s and fender twin reverbs are still pretty sexy looking combos today. manufacturers need to step up their game in making combos look good.
@@edimabadcats and mesas small combos sound good and all, but the front facing controls just arent practical for a combo, and also none have kick back legs like were found on stuff like twins and AC amps. companies need to see that small combos are the way, but in a way where the musician can use and hear them on stage, and let PA do the rest.
@@flyingrat492 Put the amp on a chair. It raises the amp and gives you a limited ability to tilt it. Still not great, but way better than aiming all of your sound at your legs and feet.
@@mal2kscI’ve got a bunch of tilt stands, I can’t just magic a chair in a small venue and that’s my problem here, both are just another thing to bring along, whereas a pair of kickback legs add practically nothing to the size and weight of an amp and are also more practical
Remember. Manufacturers don't want the best solution. They want us all going round in circles buying and selling and buying and selling but never finding out what's best for us until we have spent a fortune.
If that’s true then why isn’t there just a manufacturer who sees this and does make the “best solution”. Then they’d be insanely rich right? That’s now how economics works unfortunately, supply is based off on consumer demands, like he stated there are different eras of guitar amps and it all boiled down to the technology available and way was in at the time. It’s as simple as they provide what people want, not the ladder like you’re suggesting.
I feel called out, haha.
@@yemartini5443 it’s not a short game it’s a long one. Giving everything in one is not profitable in the long game 🤫
I used 1 pedal and a bass amp for over 20 years until last year.when hurricane damage paid for a helix floor. There are way too many options. I like it though. I never fretted over tone as I practiced too often to worry. I have a friend with a half million worth of gear and has never used a metronome and sounds worse than some students I've had and he's played as long as me. Priorities kept me from gathering rooms full of gear. Haha
That's fair. Too many people feel the need to buy the next newest thing that comes out. Even in a studio setting I can get away with a Marshall 1959slp and an ac30 99% of the time. No need to buy the newest thing.
On stage looks: I used to play in an Australian AC/DC tribute show called Accadacca and we played a car festival, Summer Nats in 2005 to a few thousand people and we got there and I said to our manager we need extra cabs on stage to look the part! It aint ACDC without the wall; we hired from the local music shop Pro Audio who supplied them for a couple of tickets to the show. We each had 3 cabs on stage, two plugged in and one was for looks. The good old days.
‘AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE!!’
Oi, that's nothing... I once saw Yngwie Malmsteen at the state theatre in Sydney.
Man that was such a big wall that the US could just put Yng on their southern border!!
I couldn’t imagine being that douchey
I can't imagine a cover band having a manger 😂
But then again, I've always been into the DIY punk scene. 🤷
Aussies do it better
Once electronics get involved people keep tryin g to mess with it to no end. Violin players arent sitting around waiting on the next big thing for violin, they just play the damn things.
Their instruments by inception aren’t electrical and electrical violins cover the same music and don’t usually use effects so we are in entirely difference spaces when comparing to lineage
Kids today will never know the joy of being in a band that has to carry an 8x10 bass cabinet and 2 sets of 4x12 guitar cabs out of a basement, load into a van, unload at a gig, carry them up 2 flights of stairs to set up, wonder where the singer is, only to find him sitting at the bar, holding his microphone bag. Then comes the blank look and 'What? I brought all my stuff in already. I figured I'd grab a beer.'
Oh..... having a drummer with a 20 piece, triple kick drum setup factored into that equasion, too. 😆
Aaaaaahhhhh..... the good old days.
In 30 years, I've only ever used combos. A Crate Vintage Club 30, a Fender Blues Jr, and now an Orange Crush 20. I've never needed more.
Same here, but then I aint a pro. I'm in a bedsit.
Same...
same
I've used Marshall Mode 4, JCM 2000, Laney Ironheart, Peavey 6505 all in half stacks and never gone past 1.5/2 on the volume 😂
I gig a Marshal DSL 40 combo (the older one, not the CR), and it does just fine at clubs, weddings and conventions, and I don't even crank the volume past 3.5/4.
Everything said here is 100% true. The biggest issue in the guitar community is people with set in stone sound theory’s based on nothing. All it does it turns people into idiots and makes people waste money trying to chase something they don’t understand.
I've noticed the same thing as of late. Aside from 'fly gigs' a lot of musicians are wanting 'stage sound' for not only themselves but also for audience in the front rows in smaller venues. Then you have people bringing cabs and poweramps or FRFR's and making their 'travel size' roughly the same as a traditional 'amp / tube amp'. Yes, I think combos, especially tube combos will be another option that will start seeing more popularity soon.
That said, I think we are finding there are a lot of tools for different contexts for guitarists using as much or as little gear as required---and that's great!
PS. I think more and more people are going back to tube amps (lunch box or tube combos) because the 'on stage' sound tends to sound much better and doesn't require as much 'fiddling' as a lot of modelers. Moreover, 'smaller bands' can often get into trouble if they rely too heavily on going direct to a PA without any on-stage sound option because there will be venues with horrible PA's etc.
Small tube combos like defunct Super Champ x2 are more needed.
The point of modellers isn't physical size. Low stage volume and perfect tonal consistency is the point. Modellers are amazing for working guitarists, you won't hear any complain about it. For some reason it's all bedroom guitarists with their overpriced tube amps complaining about it. There's nothing fun about playing on stage with 2 guitarists and a bassist all blasting out of full stacks. It might sound good from the audience but the stage is just noise, you can't hear anything, even IEMs can't help much. Sure if you're a punk band I guess it's cool to be loud and sound like shit but for serious musicians loud amps are just a pain in the ass we had to put up with since there was no alternative, now there is.
I work in a big music shop in Australia, and the trend I’ve noticed at the moment is definitely towards portability and convenience, so modellers are certainly the popular choice. Most of the responses I get from customers are basically “I just turn up to the gig with a pedal and my guitar, plug into the PA and it’s as simple as that”, I’ve noticed a lot of touring bands switching to modellers as well who previously would have used amps exclusively, but I’d say that’s down to the cost of touring now being astronomical.
I think if they started making amps (including heads) lighter and have built in silent recording and xlr/cab sim outputs that would be the best direction. You could feasibly use it at home without a cab just direct, and then hire or borrow a cab for gigs, which even then wouldn’t be entirely necessary.
Hah, you've found a new use for the term "hiring a cab"
Sometimes I bow down in front of the speakers and I hail the cab.
If a big name amp builder produced a 1x12 in solid state that sounded good, and had effects loop, headphone out, DI out with cab sim, power scaling, and all the other MIDI good stuff, it could win a big market share.
I think the new soldano astro is basically this iirc, just with tubes probably pretty heavy still.
@@colinfreeman-ib1zzI mean these are the Mesa Boogie Mark V combos
The Laney heads (SRT SLS something) seems to keep their value, never seen any in the wild though. Peavey made a nice one years ago (20W IIRC, USB also). Lately Blackstar St. James (also with combo option) and Yoyo / Bantamp. Maybe the nu-tube lines comes through, like a Vox MV50 with decent features.
In 10 years, I think amplifiers will be the least of our concerns
In ten years we'll all be eating zee bugs, living in a 150 s.f. pod inside a Fifteen Minute open air prison, using our Digital ID to participate in Society, collecting UBI...at least so long as we're up to date on the latest injection that supports the current psy-op, and being so happy that we own nothing.
At least that's the future the psychos in charge want for us.
@reptalien_music There’s always a damned realist in the group …
That's what you said 10 years ago.
That’s what they told us 10 years ago too, so…
Johns950 beat me to it! 😂
Guilty as charged@@doktabob328
I still prefer my tube amps, a 4 x 12 cab and pedalboard of stomp boxes. I have a Helix and a Headrush pedalboard as well as a bunch of PC plug-ins but they just don't have the same thump and presence of my tube amps. I do love the modeller for recording purposes.
Don't know about the Headrush but the Helix having no thump I agree. That's why I sold mine and got a Boss GT-1000. Fractal Audio works for me as well but Line 6 always sounded to me as if there was some kind of hard-programmed low cut filter.
It's almost all dependent on the speaker. I didn't really like my helix until I got the Fender FR10. That adds so much more to the sound.
Have you tried a Kemper? I have a Headrush Pedalboard and have used the Helix Plugin aswell as other plugins I was told were good. The Kemper just has an incredible feel to it. When I first tried it I was stunned how other products are even in the conversation. I'm in the process of selling my amp, pedals and the Pedalboard
If your modeler lacks “thump,” that probably has more to do with your monitoring solution than the modeler itself. Have you tried using it with your 4x12 cab?
@@-Christoph having some amount of low-cut filter for a guitar is usually important in a band mix or recording context.
I’m not a gigging musician, I write and record my own music at home for fun. Up to now I’ve used a Marshall JTM60 and a Vox AC15 combo to record all the bass and guitars with. Recently I’ve got hold of a BOSS IR-2 that I’m really impressed with especially the variety of sounds, and I plan to use to record the bass and all the quieter guitar parts with.
But I very much doubt I will stop using my Combos to play the key lead guitar parts through, as it the time I get to have fun and pretend to be a rockstar. Without an amp cab I won’t get feedback and even hiss that I feel is part of the sound. Plus I don’t think a lot of modern players realise what a combination of a Les Paul and a Marshall sounds like- I don’t want to lose that.
I've got the Boss IR-2. I think it's great. However, I watched the Studio Rats change the IR in it, and the sound improved massively. I tried it myself, and hey presto. Best sound I've ever had in the house. Really good. Can't wait to try it live.
"Well actually" old guy here. I think the original Lunchbox was the Gallien Krueger 250ML, which was originally released in 1983. 100 Watts stereo (50 per side). Even useable on its own for rehearsals and very small gigs with its two 6-1/2" speakers. It sounded like the 80's, but hey, it was the 80's.
My Marshall DSL40CR does everything I need. Bedroom practice, band practice, live - I love it.
Plenty loud, and I have mine sitting on a 1x12 extension cab to move more air. Best of both worlds.
It's a great combo. All the overdrive that I need, a really good speaker, and it doesn't take up too much space in my home. For anyone else reading, I would recommend buying used rather than new.
That's what I've used on stage for the last 10 years and will for the next 10
Man that amp it's so fucking cool.....I want another Marshall combo.
Extremely well built too.
My MKIII Mesa was like carrying a small engine block. My back does not miss it.
MK3 was my weapon of choice. My 1x12 was a monster. Yeah it was heavy but it was built like a tank
Yeah why on earth are they so heavy?
Get a Mojotone Lite 4x,12 with Celestion Neodymium Creambacks. 43 pounds.
my brother in christ, i toured with a dual recto for years. i know your pain lmao.
Now that's funny I ordered my Mesa Boogie in the 70's when you could communicate with both Randall and Rayven Smith. Weight wise I understand the Mesa's are hefty.
About FRFR - I think it's niche product and isn't necessary to use with modelers
When playing at home - you can use studio monitors/hifi system/good quality computer speakers/headphones
When playing at campfire - you can use your bluetooth speaker
When playing gig - you plug in straight into PI
Correct me if I'm wrong
I use FRFR for small gigs with my 4 piece band. We basically use it to amplify our already dialed in tones from our individual electric/acoustic guitar amps. We don't use modelers, but they could work for it as well. FRFR are nice because they require you to get the "sound" you want before it gets to the PA and then it does not alter or color it in any way (in theory), so you know what you are going to get and you know that the sound coming at you from your amp (used as a stage monitor) is the exact same sound going out to the audience. I have a 57 champ that I mic with a SM57 and then a Loudbox Mini for acoustic which I DI out to the FRFR. I know the sound for each guitar I want is already dialed on my presets, so I don't have to mess with the PA system very much. I don't know if that's how FRFR are supposed to be used, but that's how I have been using it haha
Acoustics exist. If you absolutely cannot go camping without a guitar, then take one of those.
I plug an ISP Theta DSP into 2 powered PA speakers, the kind that can be "mains" on tripods, and also floor wedges. I already have two pair of these speakers, so I put them to use in a new application. They are relatively light weight as well.
You didn't mention the scenario of jamming with friends, loud acoustic drums and no PA. You do still need loud power. Also you might want some additional air moving on stage at a gig for good old-school feedback. Remember when Brian May, Mick Ronson, Nugent, Randy Rhoads were controlling raging beast guitar rigs? If you want to play like that some stage volume is required.
@@f0rth3l0v30fchr15t Electrics exist. More robust for camping. Most folk take a music player anyway. You can adjust the volume - all the way to zero using headphones. I’ll do it my way thanks buddy.
I'm in a band that uses modelers and FRFR speakers for our stage volume, and that's just it, sometimes you play a show where you NEED stage volume. I love the ease of use of our modelers, and the things I can do using them/FRFR speakers that we just couldn't do with traditional guitar amps/cabs, but there's certain places where the sound guy may just not run guitars through the PA (I was amazed when it happened to us that we were told he wasn't going to mic up amps or run guitars through the PA. Luckily we had the FRFR speakers) or other situations where I just don't want to put that much trust in the sound guy (played a show once where EVERY band on the bill except one ran guitars direct, and you just couldn't hear the guitars for any band except the one who had amps. Since then, we always bring the FRFR speakers in case we need stage volume)
I've been using a Kemper toaster in my studio for years. Amazing piece of kit and a joy to play through. Recording both the DI and processed signals through SPDIF into the DAW, and the DI is there for re-amping, or for use with a VST plugin.
Just recently, I decided to grab a Kemper Player and a FRFR amp as I plan to jam with friends more often and see what happens. The Kemper player is just great, whether through the FRFR or a decent set of headphones. Being able to use it as an audio interface and track with it (even though the 44.1Khz sample rate limit is a bit annoying) is also pretty amazing. The portability plus the sound quality is hard to beat. It's the best of all worlds for me.
I am not sure if there is really a need for it, but I could see companies combining modellers/profilers into a powered cab at some point, as that is a gap in the market.
There's something very satisfying about plugging your guitar into an amp, maybe it's a generational thing...🙏🇬🇧🎸🤘
💯. I have fractal fm3 turbo which I never use and a evh stealth 50 and 2/12. I go straight to the amp.
I’ve thought about this topic for quite a while now, and if we do indeed see a return of combo amps, I just find it so funny that we’ve pretty much come full circle back to the days of the line 6 spider. In essence, a digital modeler with a fairly flat response speaker. Now that technology has improved in the digital modeler world, I’m definitely not opposed, I just think the frfr speaker/cab side of the equation needs to catch up to the advancements that have been made to the modeler side of things. There just doesn’t seem to enough traction on the frfr front or the “go-to” frfr that people talk about, like there is for the modelers. I know there’s been several attempts the last few years, but everything that’s been released just seems to fizzle out after the marketing hype is over and actual consumers get their hands on the product. i.e, fender frfr, L6 powercab, kemper kab, etc… I’m sure they’re decent, but nobody’s really talking about them like they do about their modelers. Once there’s shit talk and “frfr wars” on forums at the consistency of the modeler wars, then we’ll know we’re at that point.
Something people never mention is the efficiency of certain speakers. I’ll always choose a lower efficiency speaker like a greenback type speaker which can have a 97bd efficiency as opposed to vintage 30s and other speakers which have 100+db. The lower efficiency speakers allow you to get the amp further into working territory at the same volume and also be lighter at the same time.
Greenbacks sound great with most amps.
On the bass guitar side of things, I love high sensitivity speakers. Allows me to run a lower power head and a single cab.
You're missing the one things about modellers that people love. The ability to essentially switch amplifiers mid show digitally. Also the abilty to easily run stereo.
I’m speaking from the bass world and what you are talking about is starting to hit our market.
We have been playing through digital amplification for a while now. All bass amp companies are doing it. It’s the standard now.
For ages we have had to carry a bigger load because of our 300 watt tube heads and refrigerator 8x10 cabinets.
Now I can get away with a 2x10 combo at the same wattage. Add a small cabinet with the combo and now I’m pushing 500 watts.
My combo weighs only 2 and a half stone and the ext. cab is only 2 stone.
Most gigs I don’t even need the extra cab.
Speaker technology is now going smaller as well. Phil Jones is doing great things with bass cabinets that only have 2x7 speakers at 300 watts.
I've been taking a portable 3u rackmount case round with a tuner, Sansamp and compressor for bout 12 years now, all I need.
It's possible to get deep response with small speakers, but good god are they inefficient. You're easily losing 10 dB across the spectrum to keep the bass from rolling off. That means pumping in a whole lot more power. The trick is finding where the weight saved on speakers and the weight gained from more amplification cross over each other.
@@mal2ksc That’s an interesting point. I have played through Phil Jones stuff before but never owned. So my experience with what you speak of never occurred to me. I know there is some companies in the biz are going to FFR speakers. It’d be curious if they are the same way or the next new thing in speakers for bass and guitar.
"I like my Spine, currently..." 😆
yup...
Just last week had my first show using in-ears and No cab on stage (well, I did bring one as backup). Just an amp, cab-sim+loadbox. I always thought that not having a cab would mean that I missed the interaction/feedback between amp and guitar. But in reality, my guitar sound was great (and easy to mix) and I did not mis the cab and stagesound at all during the whole 2 hour show. And the people in the first row where happy to not be pierced by my guitar sound :)
Oh and even better, we are working on some promotion material for the band and I recorded the audio of the whole show. I wasn't that happy with one of the solo's, the timing was of. Yesterday at home. I picked up the same amp, and the same loadbox. Hooked it up to my DAW an re-recorded the solo and the sound was identical to the live recording. I could never achieve that by miking up a cab.
I was there, I wasn't happy.
@.welt.sein. you LIE!! On the INTERNET, no less!!
For shame.
@@matturner6890 There are no lies on the internet.
Been running in ears and a modeler onstage for almost 10 years. It’s the way to go. I thought I’d miss having a cab onstage too. Had to do it for fly dates. But I haven’t looked back. It’s way better. Sound guys love it too.
@@matturner6890Everything you read and see on the interwebs is true.
I'm keeping my mind open on amps. I learned long ago (back int he 80s) to be agnostic on amps. Don't get hung up on tubes, solid state, form factor, etc. If it works it works. I had a Marshall stack but realized I preferred combos for gigging. I loved rocking it out with anything from a Gallien Krueger, Randall, Crate or Peavey solid state, or a Laney or Marshall or Fender combo. I eventually got a Boogie 50 Cal combo and that became my main gigging and rehearsal amp for a decade. I loved it. But I'll try anything. I think modelers are awesome and had a Boss GT modeler a couple years ago. I'm also a fan of the Boss Katana. I'm always eager to see what new amp wonders are coming down the pike.
Love my AC15. Quiet enough for late night bedroom work. Loud enough to be heard over drums.
What! Is your bedroom in an underground nuclear bunker?😂
@@sid35gb My AC15 rocks the house lol. Its way overpowered for bedroom work lol
Keep the master at a decent bedroom volume, crank top boost or normal to taste. Sounds great by my ears, also I’m more of indie player than a metal player, and that overdrive sound suits my needs.
I have a Blue's Jr, makes enough noise for anything I'll ever do and with my Shariton plugged into it the blues never sounded so good. Unless somebody else is playing them of course.
I do the same with my AC10. Still has the classic Vox chime via actual tubes and maintains a balance between being loud enough for rehearsal and a small venue but also able to dial in a good sound at modest "home" volumes.
2001 THD UNI VALVE : BEFORE ALL.
BEFORE 2006
BEFORE TINY TERROR .
THD ELECTRONICS :
SEATTLE WASHINGTON
ANDY MARSHALL BUILDER .
HAND MADE.
15 WATTS .
SELF BIAS .
BUILT IN DUMMY LOAD .
BUILT IN ATTENUATOR.
CAN USE ANY POWER TUBES.
6L6
EL 84
EL 34
KT 66 88
THD YELLOW JACKETS
I've just switched to frfr and a modeler and honestly it's amazing. Good quality, paid for impulse responses can give you any tone and sound that would usually cost thousands of pounds. Also, the weight reduction is massive. Amps are difficult to predict tonally in different environments and don't travel well. I can see why the new tech is killing off the old. It's a spiral though because without those old combos, we wouldn't have the range of tones for the new stuff to emulate. This is pretty much the Spotify effect for the guitar industry.
I think guitarists in live settings need to move back to relying on their amps and speakers for their sound instead of using PA. I've been to several concerts over the last couple years and many more over my life time. The bands that used primarily modelers and ran their stuff through PAs I could hardly tell which song they were playing. PA systems seem to handle vocals and bass better than midrange or high end so any definition of notes or tone is lost. The band either doesn't care or is unaware because they all use in ear monitors anyway. It may sound great on stage but from 10 feet into the crowd and back it all sounds like you are trying to listen to the album being played from another room. I don't have all the answers but it seems to me that bands that use actual amps on stage (a real wall of sound) sounds way better than someone running a Kemper, quad cortex, or iso through the venue's pa system.
I think this topic is very genre specific, and could possibly be specific to local music scene as well. The Fender Twin and the Vox AC30 (or clones of them) have been staples in the world of jazz, blues, country, fusion, and more classic rock styles of rock n roll for decades. For a volume sake, a Twin and an AC30 can be every bit as loud as 100 Watt Marshall through a 4x12, its just more direction so they don't spread the sound out as much. (if you've never dimed a Twin, I highly highly recommend it, they are absolute flame throwers when cranked. haha)
In the world of heavier music, I think you're absolutely right through and I think it's due to more and more people getting exposed to recording guitar before performing these days. It used to be that you started a band, practiced with your big amps, and did the gigs with your big amps then you went into the studio to record. Since people like to record with the gear they spent so much money on, they recorded with their big amps, and it sounded good so who cares. But I remember, my entire life, people saying the "secret weapon" in the studio is a small combo amp, and it makes total sense. But we already owned big amps haha. Now the new players are recording and capturing their guitar sound right away, and they are learning that for the most part, an SM57 that's 3 inches from the cone, sounds pretty damn good and doesn't necessarily care about the delivery system. (Yes there are differences in sound between a types of cabs, and what not, but it all sounds good and it all create a good sound for an album) So the newer players aren't as inclined to think a huge stack is necessary.
Are they really loud the same just more directional? Sounds counter-physics to me, why more directional. Also, running a 10 W amp through the same set of speakers as a 100 W amp will be quieter. But contrary to popular belief, the 100 W amp is not ten times louder than the 10 W one but only twice as loud (loudness and its perception considering wattage is logarithmic, not linear).
That said, I am not saying that a Twin run hard through a different than its stock speakers can sound fire!!!! Speakers are the biggest tonewood in electric guitar anyway :)
I started with shitty Amos and found my way to a 100 Watt stack. Then I got ahold of a Fender bronco. It was like 7.5 watts and a 6 inch speaker. Sound guys fell in love with me. Worked great in the studio too. I’m 100% modeler these days. But I did love amps. Still do. But portability reigns supreme. Line 6 helix has about 10,000 pounds worth of gear packed into about a 10 pound box.
@@ondrejkauzal8969 Yes, a Twin, a Vox AC30 and a 100 watt Marshall stack all put out 120 to 123 dB of volume. Even an AC15 can put out 110 dB of sound. Why is that? Because the AC15 and AC30 are Class A amplifiers, and without getting into the nuts and bolts of how amps work, it means they are putting out a lot more SPL per watt than the Class A/B designs of the Marshall and Fender. This is why a Fender Princeton, tiny little amp, can also put out 110 dB of sound, it's Class A.
Why is a 2x12 more "directional" sounding than a 4x12? Because the typical use case of a 2x12 is the amp is sitting on the floor, and both speakers are pointed straight out. This results in a few issues, first being speakers have a "throw radius" or how wide the sound extends from them. With a 2x12 on the floor, it is throwing sound into the floor, this sound is then bouncing off the floor and combining with the original sound from the speaker, often times causing a phase issue and making the amp sound quieter. Then there is the issue of where the 2 speakers' throw range cross. Here, if your speakers are perfectly matched to one another you might head the signal get louder by about 3dB, but if the speakers are not matched then you may again hear phase cancellation. The last thing is that a 2x12 combo sitting ont he ground is typically pointed at the player's knee, not their ears. So it sounds quieter. This is why many combo amp users with a 2x12 configuration will often times use an amp riser of some sort to help avoid the floor issue. The problem with that, is when you take the amp off the ground, you lose low end resonance.
With a 4x12, the throw is naturally larger because you have the extra set of speakers to throw the sound higher. The top two speakers are also angled, so their throw down doesn't cross with the bottom pair's throw up. This also makes it sound louder because now the speaker is pointed at the player's chest or head depending on how tall the player is, making it sound louder.
Running a 10 watt amp through a 100 watt cab will be quieter than a 100 watt amp of the same design through the same cab, yes. (like you said, logarithmic) But here's the thing, maximum volume is rarely, if ever, used on an amplifier making the entire thing moot. In a tube amp, the only thing your wattage will really indicate to you on a functional level is how much clean headroom you have before you amp compresses and you start hearing power amp saturation.
Back in the day, when PA systems were't as sophisticated as they are now, players needed 100 watts of power because they needed the amp to be able to be cranked up without over compressing. Again, if you've ever cranked a Fender Twin, or had a chance to crank a vintage Marshall 100 head, you should do it. It's really fun, but absolutely unreasonably loud haha. The amps themselves were also not as sophisticated, lacking any amount of gain in their preamp circuit, so if you wanted distortion you needed to get it from the power tubes. And that required turning the amp to 10. A modern amp can give you all the distortion you need, and if it doesn't then a pedal can add to it. No need to dime the amp and distort the power section.
In a modern setting, in almost any venue you can think of, you'd never dream of turning a 100 watt Marshall up to 10. haha. You'd get kicked out of the club. It's also absolutely unnecessary given modern PA systems. Even the most modest of venues will put a mic on the guitar speaker, and that mic doesn't care about anything else but the sound coming out of that speaker. It doesn't care about the throw angles, or how the sound bounces off the floor. Just what's coming from the speaker. From an audience perspective, the lower your stage volume can be, the better it'll sound because the sound person will be able to make a better mix for the audience through the PA that way.
One thing that might be interesting would be bunch of 1x12 cabs with built in power amps and a some sort of preamp (possibly on your pedalboard). For a small gig you could bring just one powered 1x12. If you need a bit more volume, bring two of those. When you absolutely need to cut through on alarger stage bring four or even more. For those 4 or more you would likely need a car, but hey would still be easier to pack, unpack and set up than the 4x12.
Great video, as usual, man! I saw Black Label Society live back in 2009 or so. They had had a total of 8 Marshall heads powering 12 4x12 cabinets, a unique arrangement of two full stacks on either side and then a row of half stacks in front of the drum riser. You could actually tell the PA in this smaller club was mostly just blasting the vocals and drums. It was.... incredibly rock'n'roll.
And 2/3 of the heads were off
@@Pikilloification You mean they were idling on standby in case one has a problem.
@@Pikilloification I yield to your supreme and infallible knowledge of all things live music circa 2009. You were there. You know all... And all hail, God-king PiKilloification!! (All hail...)
I really doubt they were all even real stacks. Dummy stacks were absolutely commonplace by 09
@@gonzoengineering4894 tell me you don't know Black Label Society without telling me
Someone from fractal yelled at me on a forum saying their product is not meant to replace an amp and not meant to replicate an amp. It’s a “recreation of the signal chain with microphone placement so you can hear recorded guitar tones for recording, live monitoring and direct playing.”
I have a fractal and I’ve used modelers since the 90’s. They are a tool but not a replacement. I will never give up my tubes, it’s just not the same no matter what anyone says. I use an fm9 with a high end frfr and it’s just okay. I’m very particular about my sound and the cleans aren’t bad at all but distorted tones just don’t sound like an amp. I’ve noticed highs missing no matter how much you play with settings. Now, fractal told me to eliminate the amp settings and use EQ emulation instead. That makes no sense whatsoever. The point of amp simulation is to sound like the amp.
Simulation has come a long way but it’s not a solution yet. Bands that use modelers live, for a musician with a good ear, can absolutely hear the difference
I have a completely different vision. I think IEM setups are gonna get WAY more accessible for musicians and that's going to take care of the monitoring side of things. PA? direct output from your modeler with cab emulation included. Stage volume? with the new freed space, I think we're going to see more PA speakers added to the stage. And there you go. That's how I see it.
IEMs are already getting Crazy Affordable. I got an IEM unit from amazon thats about $125 with taxes and its really good. Its not perfect, but it gets the job done and a lot of people can attest to its quality and durability. Im also expecting Digital Mixers to start being more competitive too as IEM rigs begin to get cheaper.
exactly @@SleepingLionsProductions
I don’t know about the PA speakers part. That’s more about what the venue needs. But I fully agree with the rest. I’ve been playing IEM’s with my whole band for almost 10 years now. Only stage volume is the drums and singer. Sound guys love it. And, if the venue has a modern sound board, the band can do their personal mixes themselves on their phone. No more asking the sound guy for a little more or less of anything.
As for modelers, I started using the Line 6 back in the HD500 days out of necessity for fly dates. I could just BARELY get an acceptable tone from that. But when the Helix came out, it changed that game entirely. I don’t miss tube amps at all. And I think as guitar players get ahold of the new tech for modelers, that’s what you’re going to see everywhere.
If combos come back, I’m certain they’ll be loaded with modelers and a neodymium FRFR speaker.
What is IEM?
@@MikeWiest In Ear Monitors. Instead of having speakers onstage for monitoring, you use ear buds and wireless receivers. Gives you a better mix and you can control the overall volume. Safer for your ears if you don’t blast the volume. Easier for the sound guy because of less stage volume and fewer speakers pointing onstage.
My Fender Super Reverb was heavy but I always carried it by myself, usually lifted up in both arms to cover distance, then by the handle to get it placed.
I think FLAT amp combos will be the new rage, personally. Good video, btw, KDHaych! Thoughtful, cogent, and well researched as always.
As it turns out, the future is not amp modelers, but cab modelers, eh? (in your formula of light-magnet speaker in combo with direct output)
It’s gonna be a 5 watt world out there.
For his distorted crunch sound for decades a friend has used a miked 50's Fender Champ run wide open.
It’s gonna be a boring world out there.
Hey I love that channel haha
lol, that's all I use baby. I have a Fender 57 champ and it's got it all! ... except it cannot do clean tones in any live situation to save its life.
@@75YBA sorry you can't seem interesting without overcompensating
An important point is that all the emulators, profilers, and cloners will still need something real to emulate, profile, and clone it. You got it
I just stumbled into a Peavy Delta Blues 115 and was blown away. I thought they only did metal machines but this things cleans are sublime! The dirt channel does get filthy but for a fuzzer like myself the clean channel is perfect for effects and they sound fantastic! Plenty of output, great reverb and solid trem it's a perfect lil 30 watter
I have one of those amps. They sound huge. I love the on board tremolo and spring reverb. It's a great amp. Hidden gem.
Those are amazing amps
Fender Tonemaster FRFR 12" 8 Kg The Fender is out of stock in all Europe. It's a Monster 1000W
Neural QC 1 Kg
It's good looking. you can play live , you can play in your home
J Mascis still uses two Marshall full stacks for Dinosaur Jr. gigs. Louder than hell! Glad I wore earplugs.
I saw them and it was just stupid. Couldn't hear a damn thing they were doing even with earplugs. Definitely an album band for me. Glad I saw them, but wish I could've heard it, too it was so loud it just became like TV-static.
What really shocks me is the Twin J. keeps pointed right at his head along with all the other amps on stage. How can he hear anything?!
Only two stacks? Thats down from the usual three! Dino Jr was Easily the loudest show ever for me and it was loud even with earplugs in. That being said, it was a fantastic show.
J is probably deaf. Decades of loud. Decades. That's one question I'd like somebody to ask him if he's ever interviewed again. J, how's your hearing holding up
@@motoki1 How could you possibly tell? They're so loud you can't hear the actual song when they turn on distortion.
@7:31 for some reasons I feel like combo amps are already making a come back with Boss Kantna, Positive Grid Spark being two of the best seller for guitar amp last year and 7 out of 20 amps were not combo amps in that list
I talked to a guy who works for all the major festivals around here not too long ago. He does sound and lights. He told me that 10 years ago, the norm for the bands coming to play were full stacks, 8 guitars for a show, boutique pedals built by some guy in his apartment, Ampeg SVT’s. Bands would be in a huge camper or bus with a 6x10” trailer full of gear.
Now the same bands travel around in a van, one single 1x12” combo, Boss pedals, Line6 HD Stomp in the PA, two guitars max, bass in the PA, and no trailer full of gear.
And the bands charge more money. 😂😂
"Now the same bands travel around in a van, one single 1x12” combo, Boss pedals, Line6 HD Stomp in the PA, two guitars max, bass in the PA, and no trailer full of gear.
And the bands charge more money. 😂😂"
The gear has always been for the players, not for the audience. ;)
Thank you for relaying your experience- it is interesting to hear!
It will be modeler+flat PA for gigging with consistent tone, and vintage style combos/racks for home or studio inspiration.
It already is like that for many bands ranging from local club dwellers to Metallica..
I just plug my cables straight into people's ear
I feel like I’ve gone through all of this the last 10 years. I’ve come back around and am using a traditional pedal board with an amp modeler (NUX Amp Academy). I went a while only using in ears being happy not lugging an amp but missed the feedback and feel of an amp on stage. I then started using an Ev powered speaker and now am using an Orange pedal baby powering an Orange open back 212. This gives me everything I want. Perfect Ir Bogner 412 sound to FOH and my in ears every show, and some real cab feel (at a reasonable volume) on stage.
You'll pry my 4x12 and loud wattage tube amps from my cold dead hands. Been through the amp sim, digital modelers and analog amps. Nothing comes close to the sound, feel, and stomach punch of a true 4x12 and tube amp combo. The world can tick on with pa's and IR and axeFX. I will be in my corner half deaf with my marshalls cranked and neighboors calling the cops. Metal til' death \m/
get a look at this edgelord over here.
@@SleepingLionsProductions yup.
Or until the green police decide your tube amps are not climate friendly.
My favourite line, "but one thing's for certain and that's a virtual 4x12 is significantly lighter than a real one".
I've been looking to lighten the load for years. I have tried the modelling route, hybrid, solid state, FRFR, etc. I just never could fully bond with the digital stuff. It's missing some life and immediacy.
I have an all analog signal path now. I am currently playing an AMT Electronics SH-100-4R which I love. It has a direct out and can be run without a cab. I have a traditional pedalboard with a Carl Martin "the Strip" switcher.
Those things are reasonably light but that still leaves the cabinet.
I use a clone of the MojoTone Slammins 2x12 loaded with G12K-85 Celestions. That is still pretty heavy and awkward. I am considering neo speakers but haven't tried any yet. I think I might try the Celestion neo V-Type.
I don't think I can ever go full digital, for the reasons mentioned above. I love the tone of my all analog signal path. It really inspires me.
Thanks for the video!
I had that problem with digital for years. But I was doing fly dates and didn’t really have a better option. Forced me to keep working with it. But when the Helix came out, I changed my tune. Now, I actually prefer having it onstage. My problem was holding a note and not getting any feedback or play from the cab. But either I just got used to it, or they fixed it. Because I have zero complaints about the digital realm these days.
@@VincentPeerAbsolutely, there are applications where it is pretty much necessary.
I keep eyeing the Fractal AX8. You can get them pretty cheap these days.
The 1x12 combo NEVER went away! Look at the enduring popularity of the Deluxe Reverb! :)
And the Hot Rod Deluxe, and The Blues Deluxe, and the Blues junior, and the DSL series, and Vox amps, and...
I still rock my Peavey Vyper 1x12... 😊
I agree, it will be combos with not too much power. In fact, I worked 10 years on that concept and designed and built my own 20W amp with an integrated microphone and a slightly tilted speaker. So I can hear myself very well on small stages while there's also a real mic signal available to send to a PA. It sounds REALLY good! Way better than any amp I owned before.
The FRFR speakers from GR Guitar use Neodymium magnets. They are insanely light weight and they sound AWESOME! (Tough to find in the USA though. Only a few dealers.)
I'd been looking to go smaller for years. Had a Legacy III when they first came out, a 5150 III as well, but when I saw the Victory V4 Kraken pedalboard amp, I was hooked. Now I make one trip from my car for gigs. My 2x12 cab, my pedalboard bag with cables, and my guitar on my back. Simple set up, light weight, and sounds killer.
I split my signal before the IR Block in my helix, and I have a hotone loudster and 30ft speaker cable in my gig bag. if theres is a cab in the venue I can use then ill run it for stage volume and run the IR to the FOH. benefit is i can turn up my volume on stage for monitoring without it messing with the sound engineers gain staging at the desk.
I have a Fender Vaporizer 2 x 10 Combo that's crazy loud for its size .
But everything else has 12" speakers . Lower diameter speaker voicing just doesn't sound right to me .
Perhaps , in the future , we may see combo amps with different types of speakers in them that are better at reproducing certain frequencies.
10" drivers sound great.
I play guitar through a Hartke 4×10 bass cab.
I've thought about trying to build foam and composite cabinets for my rig because I'm just tired of heavy amps. I've even considered building a 2x10 pedal board amp combo where the lid is basically a baffle board with two speakers and a simple tone stack, class d amp. I could even go stereo that way.
I had a killer 100W tube Boogie stolen in 1985,
why? - because fecker was so bleeding heavy that I'd left it in the car overnight out on the street instead of lugging it up the stairs after a late gig.
There is a lot to be said for keeping amp weights at manageable levels.
I’m not say combos won’t have a comeback but to have that claim in the thumbnail and hardly mention modelers at all with no explaination? Older guys want something good for their spine while younger guys want convenience, what is lighter and more convenient than a tonex or quad cortex? You’re not getting the “in the room” sound but you are hearing exactly what is being put out of the monitor with little to no stage volume. It sounds the same every night. It’s more reliable and they’re built like tanks. They’re more low profile, I stick my entire rig in my guitar case. You can plug any modeler in a cabinet with a power amp to get that in the room sound. Tech is getting to the point where it’s indistinguishable from real amps no matter how much perfume language is used, and with neural dsp’s plugins, some prefer the sound. How is this not the future? It’s only going to get better and more accessible to the point where only the delusional can claim it doesn’t sound as good. To be able to have almost any sound as opposed to one as well? Any popular amp? Any popular pedal? Any popular cab? Anybody being able to afford a stereo rig? The only argument I see against this is guitarists’ infatuation with the past and the value of their gear because of it. Otherwise modelers will be the biggest trend and advancement ever in electric guitar history and it won’t render real gear extinct but with these prices nowadays, it’ll be less common.
Modellers are all very well but you still need a speaker, cab or some kind of monitor which is ok if you play the kind of venues that have things like that in place. Also modellers rely on technology which is constantly evolving and very quickly makes last year's products obsolete. A small amp can last a lot longer and is unlikely to be out of date in the future
I’ve mostly looked at combos exclusively for my bedroom and largely potential live experience needs as a way of keeping the cost down, and also only looked at solid states for the same reason. I was gonna do whatever I wanted anyway, but I’d love to be a trendsetter.
The Classic Rock distorted/overdriven guitar sound I think is becoming specialized nostalgia. I'm using an amp to plug various instruments into it- steel guitar, electric piano, bass, lopped drums, so what is working for me is lots of power, heavy, high headroom, solid state amp that "takes pedals" well. Peavey Black Widow speaker, I found a half-tube Music Man head, Bassman 10- its sort of the opposite of light and portable, but I'm really amping to the max- just plug anything into one of those big heavy high-headroom amps and you're keeping up with the band and having a great time right away! I can't be fiddling with speaker sims and scrolling through a menu at the gig.
Some combos are spine splitters, Fender Twin for example , I know I've got one .
When I was a young guy in my first regularly working band, the two guitarists both had Marshall stacks with the heads at 100W. This period in my city was the tag end of big live venues and more small rooms being the gigging space. Some of them really small. Both guitarists eventually got their Marshall heads rewired down to 50W.
Jumping forward several decades and as well as venues being small, it's all small combos and/or Modelers and speaker boxes.
I was in a band for a little while where the lead guitarist had a modelling rack and a speaker box. Can't remember the exact set up, but it was really cool. It never sounded quite right to me, and I did suggest maybe running it through a tube pre-amp of some kind. I don't know if that is possible/the done thing or not. The guitarist looked at me blankly and said, but the sounds are all modeled.
I dunno, his call after all. I left it at that. But they don't sound quite right to me, maybe I'm just too old scholl, and or a bit deaf.
A very well made case. The further it went, the more I was convinced of the argument. The clincher: line outs and XLRs out of modern lightweight combos, means you can do it all.
I believe the future is quality tube power amps. I’ve got a really nice 112 Engl cab that is a lifer as far as I’m concerned, but I’ll always try new things with heads.
Currently running a Friedman Runt 20 with a UAFX Lion and Stomp in 4cable which gives me a vast array of cleans to go with the Runt’s overdrive. If I didn’t have the Runt I’d get a Fryette 50 power amp and a Friedman IR-X
As someone who gigs multiple days a week every week, I for one agree with you! I have a VHT classic 6 that I use and has been the perfect gigging solution. I run my pedalboard through the front of the amp, use the 12" speaker for onstage monitoring, take the line out of the back and put that through an IR loader and out to the PA. I've never been happier with our stage volume/house mix
There's only 3 local shops near me, but all of them are stocked with combos, modelers, and small head and cab stacks. They still sell a couple stacks, but most amps I see locally are smaller.
I have a 50w JCM800 1x12 Combo that is loud enough to shake the windows on 4. I played it in a loud metal band with the other guitarist using a 5150 and it never had an issue being heard.
I think you’re right that things will turn to modeler/combo amps, (think black spirit, or boss katana) but I think it will fall back to head/speaker cabinet. A combo amp is unfortunately heavy, depending on what’s in it, 1/12, 2/12, etc. but splitting the cabinet from the head allows the user to decide, do I need a 2/12 for this gig or a 1/12 cause I’m going through front of house so all I need it for is monitoring or whatever. So the versatility of having the head split from the cab I feel just makes more sense… and if you don’t even need the cab… you just bring the head and use a line out… but you’re probably right that combos will make a surge, then they will probably get cut into amp/cabinets.
I gig with an AC15. At small, unmic'd gigs it's more than enough power. Anything bigger will have PA support. I truly don't understand the need for a half or full stack with 100 watts outside of how it looks.
A very well thought out and clearly expressed view of the possible future direction of guitar amps. I'm only an old "bedroom" guitarist, but everything you say makes sense. I really enjoy the videos you create, keep up the good work. Thank you.
I'm using Quilter Superblock amplifiers at the moment. Best of everything in my opinion. It goes on the pedalboard and, like a modeller I can go direct whilst plugging into a lightweight 1x12 (or any cab for that matter). In fact for most of the gigs I play I power it off the pedalboard's 9v supply and run DI only or through a cab at 1w, which is loud enough for the venues I play.
1 watt is surprisingly loud and much louder than most people expect.
I use the Victory V4 amps and a vertical 2x12. It's small footprint, and if I want I can turn up with just my pedalboard and guitar to either use backline or go straight through the PA.
I get real feel from the on stage cab, don't get option paralysis or EQ nightmares from digital modelling/FRFR and I get the versatility of choosing my format.
Spot on with what I''m seeing in the guitar world. I went and bought a 100w head and a 2x12 vertical cab recently. Had always wanted one... Played it a couple times and asked myself "what am I really gaining with this thing?" the answer was about 30lbs of unneeded weight. No more volume. No better sound dynamics. I took it back and came home with a solid 1x12 combo. Infinitely more usable and portable.
Gotta admit, I almost got a Hartke 115C, but got a 410XL and HA2500. The 115C was way lighter and smaller at 61 pounds and a full 250W of power. My HA2500 pushes 250W at 4 ohms, but I have the 1 cabinet at 8 ohms, which gets 185W. Still, I love my cab and can expand it as necessary.
Hey KDH... That makes a lot of sense. One thing I would add is that classD power amps are making light solid-state non-modelling amps. I'm a fan of Quilter amps which are loud, have great tone and have a direct out for the PA.
I love how Geddy Lee mocked the whole empty cabs on stage thing by using washing machines, rotisseries, vending machines, etc, after he went to a modeller.
I bought a 1x12 FRFR cab for my modeler. You were half right, but I don't use it for venues with a good PA. I just use the XLR.
I don’t think you’re wrong. But, as a steady gigging player for 25 years, I’ve gone modeler and doubt I’ll go back. In 10 years I’ve played 1 venue without a PA. So I brought a combo amp to that gig. But, otherwise, it’s been a modeler. I’ve thought about an FRFR speaker. But I never bothered. If I played venues without PA, I’d probably go FRFR. But, if the future is combos, I’ll bet they have modelers and FRFR speakers in them.
Small watt combos are already the thing it's just that it hasn't really come down from the stage into ppl homes I think it started with dudes buying vintage stuff bc the smaller stuff has traditionally been cheaper than the big stuff in that regard and they afford ppl the opportunity to really open the power section up and get it warm and working so you can hear how that amp actually sounds... It's more rewarding to dime a champ than to run a twin on 2... Really deluxes have been serving this market for long time
I record every track through my tube amp head, no modeler will ever compare. Modelers can emulate all they want, but nothing beats the real thing when it works well.
I am hoping that the future is one where folks use what they feel comfortable with and can be creative with. So thankful that most solutions now are good enough to make great sounding guitar based music.
I went from 2, 4 x 12s and two heads in the 70s, to a single Vox MV 50, that looks like a clothes iron, and two tiny Vox 8 inch speakers. 50 watts and sounds amazing. Stacked on top of each other, I have to bend down to adjust it. The only thing that’s the same these days is that I still have to wear earplugs.
Yup, I agree with a lot of what you say. 4x12 cabs are a pain in the ass. Also micing up ANY cab in small venues (which 99,9% of us play at) is also a pain in the ass. Mic position is critical for a decent sound and even if you are really accurate about it (mark the sweetspot with tape) and even bring your own mic, you still have all the problems of a microphone. Other instruments on stage bleed into it, it's in the way and gets knocked over. I definitely do not miss those days. But having a dedicated cab of some sorts on stage isn't a bad thing either and I notice that quite often: In my band, I'm the only guitarist who brings a cab. All the others go fully digital. We're not professional in any way, we don't use in-ears so we could have our own monitor mix. So they rely on the soundguy of lousy bars and their beaten up monitors when it comes to hearing themselves on stage and that's problematic more often than not. While the digital-only guitarist tries to get the soundguy to tweak the monitor mix, I simply turn around and adjust my amp to my needs. I'm currently running a Laney IRT SLS (Tube pre, Trans power, sounds great, weighs nothing) through a DIY 2x12 with Jensen Tornados (Neodymium indeed). Not my dream speakers but they're absolutely fine, they're light and the catch is: I only use this cab for hearing myself on stage. The soundguy gets my guitar through an IR loader connected to the DI out of the amp (no built in IRs, just analog cab sim which don't sound too good). Note: People if you amp doesn't have a DI out, or one where the bad built in speker emulation can't be turned off: Use a splitter at the end of your FX loop and off you go! Power amp distortion is not used in 99% of modern music anyways.
What I'm currently pondering is getting some kind of active full range speaker (guys...any one will do, even the cheap PA brand ones. The now trendy FRFR cabs from guitar amp brands are horribly overpriced), feeding it from the DI box link after the IR loader. This would give me the advantage of having the same sound as goes out to the mixer. I've had situations where I dialed in my amp so it sounded good with my cab but then the sound via IR wasn't great and vice versa. The cool thing about the IRT SLS is that it doesn't need a cab connected to run. Honestly I love this thing for all it is. I've never been happy with any modeler I've tried. I'm a software developer so I'm cool with tech, but when it comes to making music I do NOT enjoy navigating through menus. Also having 1000 different tones kinda overwhelms me. The IR thing is bad enough in this regard. Give me a few good sounding options and some intuitive knobs to turn, it's only rock and roll. I've also played gigs with just a good soundig distortion (amp in a box style, I've built clones of the BEOD and REVV G3/G4 which sound killer) straight into a Mooer Radar and it sounded just as good. If the complexity of modelers turns you off, there's plenty of options for downsizing today. I think good IR speaker simulation was the gamechanger a few years back. Guitar, Pedalboard with a good drive and IR loader, maybe a light active fullrange speaker so you don't depend on the local soundguy. No amp, no mics, no back pain. What a time to be a musician.
I think you're right. The need for big high powered amps were driven by the lack of decent PA systems. Nowadays PAs are/can be so large, loud AND sound good, a mp power(other than your desired drive level for power tube distortion if that's your tone) is pretty much irrelevant. In fact I know of a well known rock/Americana session guitarist who has played with Kathleen Edwards, and his main amp was a film projector based tube 15 watt 10" speaker combo that played everything from small clubs to large halls to stadium festival gigs, and without fail, he was always complimented on his tone, and never one mention about volume since it's mic'd through the PA which does all the heavy lifting anyway!!
I'd probably agree. I went the modeler route for a good long while, but this was the early days of modelers being good enough for live use, and next to no sound guys seemed to understand that I needed all my sound to come through the foldback. To get around this, I started bringing along a powered PA speaker... After a few months of doing that, I realised how ridiculous and how much more complicated than it needed to be it all was, and switched to a 1x12 combo...
That said, these days I'm almost exclusively using IEMs, so having stage sound is no longer something I actually need, and I've just recently acquired a Boss IR-2 so that all I need to bring to a gig is my guitar and pedalboard. We'll see how long it lasts before I'm back to a combo again...
Considering how with a modeller you can have all the amps, cabs and fx you want, there’s no need for stack or combos. Combos might become more popular than stacks but still waaay less popular than modellers.
For the past three years mostly and this year exclusively playing an “anti-modeler” system. I have a small pedalboard with an ir loader DI at the end of the chain and my sound comes from whatever pedals I have switched on. The LPD Sixty8 wins my pick for most playable and natural amp sound and not only can no one tell it’s just pedals, but going through a 7” monitor with this rig actually does give that amp in the room feedback to me. My board can almost fit in my guitar gig bag and I roll up with a feee hand.
Completely agree. When I first started guitar, the only thing that made sense were combos. Seems crazy to use anything else.
When I first started, the combo made sense also. Axe Fx Ultra and everything that followed offered something different, and I mean different in multiple ways. In digital chains, you can do things that would be hard to do with analog and you can throw in analog gear to your chain to boot. I would say the in-the-room feel is overall better with analog, but for me the difference is so negligible that I'm happy with an Axe 3 and Atomic CLR at band practice/rehearsal. After all, one of the biggest drawbacks of digital is it has too many EQ options, let alone everything else, just rock what works.
I found a Blackstar Artist 15 which is a 15w combo valve amp with a 1x12 speaker, a cab simulator AND a master volume knob for $425
I feel like this sucker will carry me for a while. It's used, sure, but it's simple and beautiful. I feel like this completely fits the description of the future of amplifiers you just laid out. Cheers friend for making such good and informative videos about amps!!
in regards to the power amp through a traditional cab. I've been playing with an automotive full range power amp. Its rated to 800W peak and ~300RMS. Not only can I run that to one my larger speaker cabs (6x 12" private jacks). I have the option to run it in stereo to multiple cabs, utilizing stereo effects as well. This amp and PSU combined is lighter than even the terror. Im personally using an ATX PC PSU because I knew how to wire it up.
However there are plenty of 12V DC PSU's up to 1kW for
That honestly seems like a really good idea. But how do you match the impedance between the amp and the full-range speakers? I know most amps use 8 or 16 ohms, but car stereo speakers are like 2 or 4 ohms. I guess you would have to know a bit about electronics to match them up. Also, would you need something like a crossover if you wanted to split the high frequencies to some tweeters or 6x9's?
@@sidgar1 pretty with all automotive power amps the impedance just lowers the effective power output where you get distortion. In my case the "bridged" configuration, which puts the stereo channels in series, gets me the 300W @4 ohm. If say my speakers were wired to 8, it'd be ~150 (just a fraction). That's why you see power ratings on power amps on a chart of different impedances.
Regarding the crossover- pretty much all the full range amps (that aren't only for subs) have a built in high pass and low pass filter. If you have speakers thatre low power or you're super concerned you can set the HPF to like 80-100hz and not have to worry. Some have a lot of variable filters when you get up on prices.
A 16ohm cab can be quickly switched to 4ohm by turning the series connection into all parallel.
Usually a 4x12 16ohm is 2 16's in series and the pairs in parallel. Where all parallel becomes 16/4 = 4.
If you're savvy enough, you can wire in a switch that does the circuit change on the same input.
Finally, multi channel amps like for 2X L/R (4 total) usually supports the bridging across all channels which gives you a billion choices like doing something crazy like each speaker in the cab getting its own channel.
It's pretty much a win win but does take a little setup/wiring.
@@frjhracing I misunderstood, then. I thought you were hooking car stereo speakers to a guitar amp, but it sounds like you're also using a car stereo amp as well? Now my question is how to match the input impedance for the guitar signal? I read that a guitar uses around 1MΩ input impedance, but I don't know what a car amp uses for its input. It sounds like a really cool setup I would like to try out for myself.
@sidgar1
The setup is: guitar, (pedal board, modeler, or plugins), car power amp, guitar cab (wired in 4 ohm).
99% of the amps have RCA connections unless its fancy with an optical/digital input. So i have an RCA to TRS adapter and a really long pro audio RCA cable (not flimsy like you typically see, about equivalent build quality to a decent guitar cable). Usually what they have is a input attenuation pot which lets you change the expected line level.
To be honest idk if actually works as preamp gain or if it varies the input impedance as I never checked...probably should. IT may also depend on the amp itself.
I found with pedals/ guitar, modelers I just crank it all the way down to zero (no pre gain or attenuation) and I still run outputs at like 20% volume on the modeler or roughly -12db on line level (if im using PC interface and plugins) results in a decent punchy in-room volume. The thing about car amps is they just straight amplify - so its basically like having an amp always at 100%. The difference being mainly the way the amp reacts to a load. It'll only use the power based on the input and speaker load.
A little sidenote is - mind you at 300W...ZERO noise. I think more of a byproduct of the really clean ATX PSU. but literally I cant tell if the amps left on even if my ear is right on the speaker. And then you turn on the modeler and get full volume. Idk of any other setup with a guitar cab of that power and no noise.
@@sidgar1 also in regard to if say you want to run the car amp through FR-FR speakers. You do essentially everything else I described except for you have to turn on the IR's on your amp models or use something like the boss IR2 ....or else itll sound like a fizzy mess. With bass, and really clean tone, it can result in something super rich but the FR speakers have to be ready for the bottom range (theres still the variable crossovers on most amps)
I also expect to have modeler/tube amp mixes: you have a real tube amp at the heart and you can access effects, you can bring your own IRs (multiple - depending on program) and you have USB connection to record DI + amp tone at the same time.
My '90s Carvin MTS3200 head has a "cabinet voiced" line out that I had to use in a pinch when I wasn't able to borrow a cab. Not the greatest sounding, but it worked! Also, in the early 2000s, Crate came out with a super tiny 100w solid-state head called the Powerblock that was intended for people to use their PODs with. It sounded awful, though, true to Crate's legendary reputation.
Did you actually play a PowerBlock?
They sound great.
I had a Hughes&Kettner 30W-Transistor-Combo and then a Marshall 50W-Hybrid-Combo (to be loud enough for my band) that I still use today.
For one of the metal bands I play in I run a Quilter 200 watt Pro-Block set to run clean with a few pedals in front then into a 2x12. Honestly it works great for me and I don't see the need to change up that setup anytime soon as it sounds great, can get loud or quiet, and isn't too difficult to lug around all things considered.
I love the Catalyst combos!
I think it's more of a case of versatility.
For example, I have a Blackstar HT Stage 100 and matching cab, an H||H IC100S with a Marshall 4 x 12 angle front, a Marshall Code 100 combo and a MooerGE300, more pedals than I can shake a stick at and various DAW plugins such as Neural DSP, Softube and McRocklin suites.
I don't gig live, just record at home and all the aforementioned gear, just gives me plenty of options.
Hi H||H user.