Thanks for this. Video's been taken down now. You're absolutely right that I was looking down on others who do care about the canon. Quite an asshole move. I'll do my best to work on that and make sure it doesn't happen again.
That's a shame, i think that video was pretty good, and lots of people here in the comments seen to think the same, somethings could have being worded better, and well, not looking down on others in the video lol, i wish it could be posted again with some edits here and there. like i said it's a good video, and definetly a discussion that is important to be had in the community.
Honestly your point was very spot on regarding the corporate aspect. SEGA despite handwaving fan projects, is one of those companies that don’t really want to budge on their old school notions. Their brand mandates align similarly to how Disney/Nintendo doesn’t want particular portrayals of their characters. Brands and business reign supreme to audience satisfaction. They want their safe bets more than anything.
Pariah's videos are incredibly in-depth, but that condescending tone you bring up is something I've noticed across pretty much all of his videos. The biggest example, I think, was his "Sonic is Fundamentally Japanese" video, where his entire argument basically boiled down to "Sonic was created in Japan and so only Japanese writers can write him 'correctly'," which is an incredibly boneheaded and dismissive stance. He could have just said "I prefer the Sonic stories written in Japan" rather than claiming that two-thirds of the franchise somehow isn't a valid interpretation of the character.
I think he also said something about something non eastern adapting to the Japanese narrative, I kinda forgot the details about that video. He did also said something about sonic prime getting the Japanese thing right. But he still considers the show as it's own thing, apparently.
I honestly really hate how much he mocks the Sonic Movies without watching them at all to make a proper judgement on them. Sonic 3 is a movie he is currently avoiding like the plague despite everything he hears about from it, cause “Hollywood bad”.
I love pariahs videos but this one just gave off the impression that “I don’t give a shit, canon doesn’t matter” and he tried to push that off as an objective
I definitely agree with you, He can have his opinions but he shouldn’t act above others because of them. Saw a video about the new TMNT movie with the same type of guy acting like his opinions are objective. Thank you for making this video, and good luck with your channel 😁
When I saw this video it made me think, i thought that Maybe he was right but then I saw this video floating around and every sense I first played sonic. I have loved Sonic lore and yes I know that the Lore has been very inconsistent. The reason it’s a very good thing again don’t have to agree with me because if you told me 10 years ago that sonic had a well thought canon I would disagree with you. He saying that NO ONE CARES ABOUT SONIC LORE FANS. Really hurts not just me but thousands of people. So I am very thankful for this vid for expressing my thoughts, You deserve lots more appreciation.
Thank you for saying this hell I even love Archie Sonic lore that gets way too much hate but game Sonic lore definitely matters I just can't believe people still have these type of opinions in 2024.. not saying you're not allowed to not care about the Canon but to say it's not important is kind of crazy wild
I totally agree with this video. I love exploring the lore of this franchise and creating timelines. One of the reasons I love Sonic so much, besides the games, is the characters, their personalities, and the universe they live in. Yeah, I totally agree. Everyone knows that the lore is confusing and has a lot of plot holes. That's why we fans who like the story of the universe of the series try so hard to find explanations for those plot holes. Totally agreed. There has always been a way to slightly connect one game with another in the series, just to make the players who played the previous games think it's cool and that it is a connected universe, without making new players lost in all that information. I even created a list online of all the times that happened in the series, and I used those examples. Sonic Adventure has references to Sonic CD, Sonic 2, and Sonic 3, mentioning Little Planet, Angel Island, Amy's and Tails' flashbacks to their debut game, Knuckles being tricked again, and Sonic pointing that out. Literally, Chaos is mentioned in Sonic 3's manual with Knuckles confusing the crashed Death Egg with a legend about a "dragon" from his people. Sonic Adventure 2 mentions Tails having saved Station Square. Sonic Heroes has Knuckles mentioning Mushroom Hill in Frog Forest, Amy mentioning Casinopolis from SA1, all the characters reacting to Shadow being alive, and Knuckles talking about how ghosts must love him because of how many he has found (Sandopolis, Pumpkin Hill, Death Chamber). Even when the lore started to get messy, those mentions to previous games still existed. For example, in Generations, Sonic mentions saving aliens in an amusement park and genies in magic books. In Colors DS, they kind of mention 06 but respect the fact that the game was reset, with Blaze and Silver meeting, having the sensation they know each other, but not remembering how, and Tails mentioning that they must have met somewhere, sometime. So yeah, we all know those inconsistent things exist. Even I have been having this thought for a while, and I still think that the lore in Sonic doesn't really matter that much. Things can change from game to game, and that's okay. I started viewing it similarly to Mario games. It has a connection between games making the universe feel more alive, but they don't have the necessity to make it 100% consistent and not break the 'lore,' but still being fun for people who like that part of the series. That's why Iizuka-san said there is not a fixed world map for Sonic's world or a fixed currency too because everything can change depending on the market, and they don't have as a priority to make every single thing consistent. I already said this somewhere, a lot of different people with different ideas went throught this series, so of course there will be different thoughts, things that break each other and different ways of making a story, and I don't think the lore of the whole series should make people like or dislike the plot of a single game alone, Sonic games are supposed to be played in any order and anyone should be able to understand it even without playing the other games, like SA1, SA2, Heroes, 06, Frontiers, etc. Does I also agree with you both, a story of a game should be seen if it is good or not by the story of the game itself, even I, a person who loves the Sonic lore, also thinks that the games can have their own plots, I like it being like this and I review a good story based around the game's story itself, and not on the whole series, that's BS I agree and also think it's crazy that he says for fans to give up on something they do for fun because they love to do exactly when the creators are trying to make it feels more connected and putting care in that same topic and yeah, the same goes for shipping, the same goes for all those concepts of games, SEGA markets shipps, they sell a lot of Sonamy shirts officially and do a lot of likeable interactions beetween so many characters, so why even ship something when you know that they're doing it just for marketing?
Honestly I agree with him. Tails Tube comes out trying to fix cannon, Frontiers does the same but suddenly IDW characters are referenced and Sticks has apparently been good friends with Amy despite never showing up in the main continuity, uh ok. Sonic Prime Comes out and is apparently part of the main cannon despite making no sense to be, uh ok. Suddenly IDW as a whole is Cannon to the game despite not being cannon since Forces, uh ok. They can say they want to streamline canon but I heavily doubt they’ll ever manage to do so with how fucked up it all is. No point in giving a fuck if so many things change on the fly or generally don’t matter.
While Prime does indeed make no sense if brought in as is, (though its being hinted Prime!Sonic is not the actual Sonic "Prime" but will instead introduce the multiverse as hinted in Tails Tube, so hopefully that is indeed the case) the version of Sticks being referenced is not the Boom one but the Sonic Team one that you see on Sonic Channel and its comics and promotional artwork. (Its also why Sticks appeared in the Olympic games) So it isn't quite out nowhere but more of a language barrier. (Sonic Team really liked Sticks for some reason) IDW on the other hand is nothing but a major boon to the continuity due to spending time fixing the Meta Era's mess of continuity shattering and making characters OOC, fleshing out game events and concepts more and generally trying to be faithful to the canon even back then, so it slides in smoothly. Its less of a sudden drop like Archie or Fleetway would be and more like the Clone Wars to George's original hexalogy. (Though granted some have argued thats because SEGA has too much oversight on the book and feels that has limited it's potential since day 1)
Yeah I still agree with his take on cannon being broken and I'm fine with that. I personally believe they were trying to make sonic story cannon and make sense between the start till 06. After 06 I truly believe SEGA just said screw it. We need money and change the image that we brought upon ourselves because of that game. I can understand too why they did what SEGA did but man they really just NOTHING with big stories or connective stories after that. Not all big stories are bad. But at the end I just agree that character is much more important at this point then the general world. Once the character feel like themselves we can go back to the world of sonic has to offer because it does have a lot to play around with
Pariah is one of those 'holier than though' 2d sonic fans. He actually said Sonic adventure is "not a sonic game" just because the physics weren't 1 to 1 like the classic 2d games. Jesus i hate that statement
If Sonic Adventure isn't a Sonic game because it doesn't have the 2D game's physics, then Mario 64 isn't a Mario game because it doesn't have the 2D game's Power-Ups.
because, yes even if a continuity is broken even if something doesn't make sense even if its messy caring about continuity is still why there is continuity to day, and i still believe there is continuity
Even if his tone is very mean, he does have a point tho, having do many cool stories thrown in the trash for the sake of "this is what sonic is now" is infuriating, and then pretending that they have continuity by simply name dropping things that happened like a family guy bit, and then having fans be like "you are wrong because this connects to this other things because of my head canon" like... I can understand why he sounds so mad on the video however he's not wrong
Honestly, i though he was talking about the toxic side of the Sonic community that fights over the canon, that are too obsessive about it, not the people that care but don't do toxic discussions about it. i wish the video was not deleted tbh, i think it's an important discussion to be have, but it should be specified what type of people that was directed for. but i could be wrong, idk. I do think Sonic Team is only making "everything is canon" for the sake of branding is true though, and that they care little for continuity, to me, they just want to do what Mario does with his "canon" but, here's the thing Sonic is NOT Mario! what work for him won't necessarely work for Sonic. i don't think is a genuine attempt to make things cohesive and consistent, hell, the decision of making Sonic Prime canon brings more inconsistences than it being non-canon, and is not like the show is so substancial for the lore that it needs to be canon, it definetly feels like unifying for the sake of branding, i don't think they're taking the canon serious, just branding. I don't think people should stop caring for a franchise because of branding specifically, but if there is a low effort, or not a good enough effort to make things right, i understand and respect the feeling of not caring for it as much. i did had a hard time in the past for caring for Sonic games when the Sonic games felt like they didn't had enough effort put behind them, (mostly because of Sega managment than their developers tbf) so i understand this feeling. The discussion of the canon can be fun, i can see the fun of trying to piece everything together, but people usually from my experience at least, generally start being toxic when it comes to discussing that aspect of the series. if Sonic Team is taking the canon serious or are just doing for branding and to shut people up about what is canon or not is arguable. I do disagree with the argument about tone though, and i disagree HARD, how many franchises have different tones and just work? a lot, and why with Sonic it can't be like that? Zelda have many different tones and just work, Kirby too, why Sonic would be the problem? I don't see a ton of superiority in the video, more like frustration, and i actually think the Sonic fandom need abit more of Cynicism sometimes, and some Cynicial videos too tbh, i think it is important to have the discussions on what has been happening with the series, the stuff that we don't like, there's a lot of fans that just buy everything and accept everything Sega does and that's not health for the franchise. so i do appreciate the video, although i think somethings should have been clarified better. Although i think a bit of Cynicism is good, i do think there should be more gratitude and recognition that there has been at least an attempt of doing things right, sure, it might not be a genuine attempt for the sake of doing things right, but it is an effort nonthless, and there are people behind the brand that are genuine trying, even if it's not the main people behind the brand. and... that's not about canon, but i think it's important: not every franchise is still getting games like Sonic, much less multiple games, which sure, they might vary in quality, and they definetly deserve criticism, but there is still attempts there, Sega don't give up on Sonic, no matter how toxic the fanbase is, no matter how much the critics keep being unfair with the franchise from time to time, no matter how much Sonic is treated like a joke by the internet. and as a fan of franchises that don't get new games in years, like Banjo-Kazooie, Rayman, Sly Cooper etc... i can't help but respect Sega for still trying with their mascot, maybe Sonic is too big to kill? but well, Rayman was big for ubisoft too, and Mega Man was huge for capcom, and they still abandoned them, regardless, i think there should be recognition that as much as Sega mismange Sonic, they at least try, and the situation could be much worse, and there is other good franchises getting it worse. and that is something that i think should be more recognized by the fans. Sega DO CARE for Sonic, and people should stop saying they don't, if they don't, Sonic would join the teraphy section of abandoned video game mascots that don't get new games in years like Mega Man, Banjo-Kazooie, Rayman, Sly Cooper, Sparkster (nobody even remember this last one nowadays, lol) and others. if Sega care for the fans, i'm not sure, it's really hard to listen to feedback when there'so many different opnions being thrown around, i do think Sega have a big problem of caring too much for what gaming critics think though, just the fact that they provied IGN exclusive footage for frontiers after how much IGN trashed on Sonic says a lot about it.
Pariah is one of my favorite TH-camrs, and I'm very thankful for this video because I believe this kind of criticism can help him improve, and his content can have more of the good stuff and maybe reach more people. His attitude and tone is something he has had trouble correcting, but I think he's aware of that (also I kind of empathize with that because I've personally had that problem before and it doesn't feel good thinking about it). So thank you for pointing these things out.
I think this video sums up my opinion better than my comment on the original video. It felt directed at the fans who wanted to make sense of the Sonic canon, rather than the actual creators who are responsible for any contradictions. Even then, Sonic is fictional and therefore subject to errors. I think these inconsistencies make for good discussions and theories that promote fun narrative ideas. I agree to where canon should not determine the value of something. If anything, IDW and Prime would benefit if these things were not canon to the games.
Yeah, pariah695 is kind of strict in his content and would go from chill to cruel at times. And even then, I still find myself watching his great videos. I'm glad that there's actually a video dedicated to him. Good work! I wanna see more reaction or response videos like this and talk about what they think about these really interesting videos. Wether it'd be positive or negative. Though I think his 06 story video deserves some major criticism, because there are just some things he said that i agree with AND A LOT OF THINGS THAT I DISAGREE.
Yeah I thought I was the only one who felt he was seeming to have a strict attitude whenever he talks in his videos Sounds almost like a smart Alec a little bit
@@justinterry7853 It's an MK youtuber, he criticizes the bad aspects of the franchise and say things that are true, in kinda of a rude manner, but in a way that sound more like cold facts and satire than arrogance.
Despite all this, im still pretty jaded about the canonicity. The "Everything is canon" tweet just screams to me "yeah this continuity is beyond fucking saving lol".
can u do a response to the video about the sonic idw not being canon. i cant be bothered to look at the name but hes mad the comics are canon and stated that just because sega themselves said its canon doesnt mean anything because the creators dont say whats canon or not
I really don't like the idw comics either. The placing is weird, they make weird faces, most of the action usually boils down to beat him or smash that, characters try act like the real deal but they kinda feel like different interpretations than mainline. I also hate how some characters are written. Like omega being used more comedically than before, silver being just the support character, and you know how cream was like the s-tier of the gba sonic games? Yeah, I don't get any of that from these comics. What's this like hero scout or school she goes with the other kids? I forgot. Though I want to see pariah695's video about the idw comics, because he only showed like two panels of metal sonic when saying that the characters act different in those comics. And I need more details on why those comics are bad.
@crimsonzone8984 have you seen the faces in frontiers. The comics do a way better job with faces and expressions than the games. Also omega is the funniest thing in the comics because he's a killer robot that just says what he means, and it's not like it's nothing new and don't even get me started on silver, dude was always a support character in every game but 06 and dude is op in the comics, like you can't tell me during the metal virus arc that dude is a support character, dude was as much a main character as he was was during 06, moreso then rivals
@banjo9158 I mean. She was never a main hero to begin with and no hero's don't count, they made big a main character. All the comics did was expand on that and why She's able to hang out with sonic and his crew
I wouldn't say I like or dislike Pariah. Rather, it's that I realize after watching enough of his content that I can't vibe with his viewpoints all of the time just because I agree with some of the things he says. And that's fine. He's just 1 fan like I am. He's not someone I would go out of my way to look up unlike a lot of other Sonic youtubers, but he has his audience for a reason. If other people like Pariah for what he has to say, then that's a good thing. That being said, I agree with this video on the basis of it largely just attacking fans who liked discussing sonic canon, which is in pretty poor taste. Glad he took it down after hearing the criticism of it. That shows a willingness to admit when he's wrong.
I dunno man, The sonic series has had different sonic teams working on different games since sonic CD and sonic 2, I understand the whole continuity thing and making the games accessible for new players (I started with heroes prime example of that) but I think that if Sega really wanted to keep the series consistent than it might have been more likely that they would have done so from the start. I notice in a lot of Japanese media canon seems to be a little more relative, and I think that Pariah is just trying to point out that we as the sonic fans take the canon too seriously and that might be because of our understanding of western storytelling. I think also that he is trying to say that if allegedly the company does not take it serious we may not have reason to either. I didn't find his take cynical at all, I just think that he was being a little harsh as a response to the intensity of sonic fans, I feel like you might taking it a little too seriously bro. I think he just felt like he had to explain himself for some of the stuff he has said in other videos about sonic stories.
I agree with Pariah here, I think canon doesn't matter at all and there doesn't even need to be any type of canon. But, I do understand your view and Pariah was a bit harsh on those who like to make their own canons.
Ngl, people should just stfu about Sonic's Characterization as if he was ever consistent through his games to begin with, people have they're own take on the blue blur, we should just stop giving af about it cuz all of them are great
I'm going to be honest most of his videos are pretty bad in my opinion he is way too nitpicky and sometimes it feels like he hates Sonic without he just picks apart every little problem until he completely ruins it for himself I've seen it too many times with people and he's no different
The way he reacts to Movie Sonic is honestly very despicable. And he wants to talk about a “what if I handled the franchise” without using his brain to watch and analyze the most important faction of Sonic that was recently introduced. But he’s willing to spend his days talking about the stories that don’t mean much for the canon or for the series to do.
Look, the canon doesn’t matter because it’s already something that doesn’t exist. They need to reboot the whole thing and choose a new starting point for the canon because after a certain point, the games contradict each other. That’s why there is no canon and that’s why it doesn’t matter anymore because they already messed the whole thing up. Now only a multiverse with timelines can save it if they don’t want a reboot. Also, there is no guarantee Sega won’t hire bad writers again or won’t push the franchise to a bad direction (just look at Sonic Heroes after SA2… such a big shift from the realistic environment with humans to a cartoony looking games without humans). Sega the company(!) doesn’t care and never did.
I don't know why sonic fanboys act like the canon ever mattered or was important to any of the games. The games just do whatever SEGA wants to happen that game and that's it. They should keep doing that.
I keep telling this multiverse thing to other people and they responded that going by that logic is so confusing and convoluted. Like how are the ones now any better? I think that sonic team's tailstube with amy in it is the right way to go with. SONIC SERIES IS AN EVER BRANCHING MULTIVERSE!
@crimsonzone8984 there is no multiverse. Just because something is sonic related doesn't mean its apart of a multiverse, they are just different universes that have zero connections to each other. And yes idw and prime are canon to the games so they don't count.
Thanks for this. Video's been taken down now. You're absolutely right that I was looking down on others who do care about the canon. Quite an asshole move. I'll do my best to work on that and make sure it doesn't happen again.
That's a shame, i think that video was pretty good, and lots of people here in the comments seen to think the same, somethings could have being worded better, and well, not looking down on others in the video lol, i wish it could be posted again with some edits here and there. like i said it's a good video, and definetly a discussion that is important to be had in the community.
Honestly your point was very spot on regarding the corporate aspect. SEGA despite handwaving fan projects, is one of those companies that don’t really want to budge on their old school notions. Their brand mandates align similarly to how Disney/Nintendo doesn’t want particular portrayals of their characters. Brands and business reign supreme to audience satisfaction. They want their safe bets more than anything.
It shouldn't have been taken down, at least have a follow up video of that to write those wrongs
The video itself was terrible and you were acting like a crybaby but I'm glad you at least learned from your mistakes
agreed with a fraction of your points,couldve been worded better but it’s weird to be down
Pariah's videos are incredibly in-depth, but that condescending tone you bring up is something I've noticed across pretty much all of his videos. The biggest example, I think, was his "Sonic is Fundamentally Japanese" video, where his entire argument basically boiled down to "Sonic was created in Japan and so only Japanese writers can write him 'correctly'," which is an incredibly boneheaded and dismissive stance. He could have just said "I prefer the Sonic stories written in Japan" rather than claiming that two-thirds of the franchise somehow isn't a valid interpretation of the character.
I think he also said something about something non eastern adapting to the Japanese narrative, I kinda forgot the details about that video.
He did also said something about sonic prime getting the Japanese thing right. But he still considers the show as it's own thing, apparently.
Nah, if only Japanese writters can write sonic "correctly", then I'd rather stick to Ian Flynn's "incorrect" writing of him in the IDW comics.
I honestly really hate how much he mocks the Sonic Movies without watching them at all to make a proper judgement on them. Sonic 3 is a movie he is currently avoiding like the plague despite everything he hears about from it, cause “Hollywood bad”.
I love pariahs videos but this one just gave off the impression that “I don’t give a shit, canon doesn’t matter” and he tried to push that off as an objective
He is a classic sonic purist, what did you expect from him?
I definitely agree with you, He can have his opinions but he shouldn’t act above others because of them. Saw a video about the new TMNT movie with the same type of guy acting like his opinions are objective. Thank you for making this video, and good luck with your channel 😁
yeah he he always think his opinions are objective..
When I saw this video it made me think, i thought that Maybe he was right but then I saw this video floating around and every sense I first played sonic. I have loved Sonic lore and yes I know that the Lore has been very inconsistent. The reason it’s a very good thing again don’t have to agree with me because if you told me 10 years ago that sonic had a well thought canon I would disagree with you. He saying that NO ONE CARES ABOUT SONIC LORE FANS. Really hurts not just me but thousands of people. So I am very thankful for this vid for expressing my thoughts, You deserve lots more appreciation.
Thank you for saying this hell I even love Archie Sonic lore that gets way too much hate but game Sonic lore definitely matters I just can't believe people still have these type of opinions in 2024.. not saying you're not allowed to not care about the Canon but to say it's not important is kind of crazy wild
I totally agree with this video. I love exploring the lore of this franchise and creating timelines. One of the reasons I love Sonic so much, besides the games, is the characters, their personalities, and the universe they live in.
Yeah, I totally agree. Everyone knows that the lore is confusing and has a lot of plot holes. That's why we fans who like the story of the universe of the series try so hard to find explanations for those plot holes.
Totally agreed. There has always been a way to slightly connect one game with another in the series, just to make the players who played the previous games think it's cool and that it is a connected universe, without making new players lost in all that information. I even created a list online of all the times that happened in the series, and I used those examples.
Sonic Adventure has references to Sonic CD, Sonic 2, and Sonic 3, mentioning Little Planet, Angel Island, Amy's and Tails' flashbacks to their debut game, Knuckles being tricked again, and Sonic pointing that out. Literally, Chaos is mentioned in Sonic 3's manual with Knuckles confusing the crashed Death Egg with a legend about a "dragon" from his people.
Sonic Adventure 2 mentions Tails having saved Station Square.
Sonic Heroes has Knuckles mentioning Mushroom Hill in Frog Forest, Amy mentioning Casinopolis from SA1, all the characters reacting to Shadow being alive, and Knuckles talking about how ghosts must love him because of how many he has found (Sandopolis, Pumpkin Hill, Death Chamber).
Even when the lore started to get messy, those mentions to previous games still existed. For example, in Generations, Sonic mentions saving aliens in an amusement park and genies in magic books. In Colors DS, they kind of mention 06 but respect the fact that the game was reset, with Blaze and Silver meeting, having the sensation they know each other, but not remembering how, and Tails mentioning that they must have met somewhere, sometime.
So yeah, we all know those inconsistent things exist. Even I have been having this thought for a while, and I still think that the lore in Sonic doesn't really matter that much. Things can change from game to game, and that's okay. I started viewing it similarly to Mario games. It has a connection between games making the universe feel more alive, but they don't have the necessity to make it 100% consistent and not break the 'lore,' but still being fun for people who like that part of the series. That's why Iizuka-san said there is not a fixed world map for Sonic's world or a fixed currency too because everything can change depending on the market, and they don't have as a priority to make every single thing consistent.
I already said this somewhere, a lot of different people with different ideas went throught this series, so of course there will be different thoughts, things that break each other and different ways of making a story, and I don't think the lore of the whole series should make people like or dislike the plot of a single game alone, Sonic games are supposed to be played in any order and anyone should be able to understand it even without playing the other games, like SA1, SA2, Heroes, 06, Frontiers, etc. Does
I also agree with you both, a story of a game should be seen if it is good or not by the story of the game itself, even I, a person who loves the Sonic lore, also thinks that the games can have their own plots, I like it being like this and I review a good story based around the game's story itself, and not on the whole series, that's BS
I agree and also think it's crazy that he says for fans to give up on something they do for fun because they love to do exactly when the creators are trying to make it feels more connected and putting care in that same topic
and yeah, the same goes for shipping, the same goes for all those concepts of games, SEGA markets shipps, they sell a lot of Sonamy shirts officially and do a lot of likeable interactions beetween so many characters, so why even ship something when you know that they're doing it just for marketing?
I agree
Honestly I agree with him.
Tails Tube comes out trying to fix cannon, Frontiers does the same but suddenly IDW characters are referenced and Sticks has apparently been good friends with Amy despite never showing up in the main continuity, uh ok. Sonic Prime Comes out and is apparently part of the main cannon despite making no sense to be, uh ok. Suddenly IDW as a whole is Cannon to the game despite not being cannon since Forces, uh ok. They can say they want to streamline canon but I heavily doubt they’ll ever manage to do so with how fucked up it all is. No point in giving a fuck if so many things change on the fly or generally don’t matter.
Tailstube also talked about the branching of timelines. So I assumed that that's the thing that they're going for.
While Prime does indeed make no sense if brought in as is, (though its being hinted Prime!Sonic is not the actual Sonic "Prime" but will instead introduce the multiverse as hinted in Tails Tube, so hopefully that is indeed the case) the version of Sticks being referenced is not the Boom one but the Sonic Team one that you see on Sonic Channel and its comics and promotional artwork. (Its also why Sticks appeared in the Olympic games) So it isn't quite out nowhere but more of a language barrier. (Sonic Team really liked Sticks for some reason) IDW on the other hand is nothing but a major boon to the continuity due to spending time fixing the Meta Era's mess of continuity shattering and making characters OOC, fleshing out game events and concepts more and generally trying to be faithful to the canon even back then, so it slides in smoothly. Its less of a sudden drop like Archie or Fleetway would be and more like the Clone Wars to George's original hexalogy. (Though granted some have argued thats because SEGA has too much oversight on the book and feels that has limited it's potential since day 1)
Yeah I still agree with his take on cannon being broken and I'm fine with that. I personally believe they were trying to make sonic story cannon and make sense between the start till 06. After 06 I truly believe SEGA just said screw it. We need money and change the image that we brought upon ourselves because of that game.
I can understand too why they did what SEGA did but man they really just NOTHING with big stories or connective stories after that. Not all big stories are bad. But at the end I just agree that character is much more important at this point then the general world. Once the character feel like themselves we can go back to the world of sonic has to offer because it does have a lot to play around with
Pariah is one of those 'holier than though' 2d sonic fans. He actually said Sonic adventure is "not a sonic game" just because the physics weren't 1 to 1 like the classic 2d games. Jesus i hate that statement
If Sonic Adventure isn't a Sonic game because it doesn't have the 2D game's physics, then Mario 64 isn't a Mario game because it doesn't have the 2D game's Power-Ups.
because, yes even if a continuity is broken even if something doesn't make sense even if its messy caring about continuity is still why there is continuity to day, and i still believe there is continuity
This dude's saying some smart ass words I didn't even know existed 💀
Even if his tone is very mean, he does have a point tho, having do many cool stories thrown in the trash for the sake of "this is what sonic is now" is infuriating, and then pretending that they have continuity by simply name dropping things that happened like a family guy bit, and then having fans be like "you are wrong because this connects to this other things because of my head canon" like... I can understand why he sounds so mad on the video however he's not wrong
Honestly, i though he was talking about the toxic side of the Sonic community that fights over the canon, that are too obsessive about it, not the people that care but don't do toxic discussions about it. i wish the video was not deleted tbh, i think it's an important discussion to be have, but it should be specified what type of people that was directed for. but i could be wrong, idk.
I do think Sonic Team is only making "everything is canon" for the sake of branding is true though, and that they care little for continuity, to me, they just want to do what Mario does with his "canon" but, here's the thing Sonic is NOT Mario! what work for him won't necessarely work for Sonic. i don't think is a genuine attempt to make things cohesive and consistent, hell, the decision of making Sonic Prime canon brings more inconsistences than it being non-canon, and is not like the show is so substancial for the lore that it needs to be canon, it definetly feels like unifying for the sake of branding, i don't think they're taking the canon serious, just branding.
I don't think people should stop caring for a franchise because of branding specifically, but if there is a low effort, or not a good enough effort to make things right, i understand and respect the feeling of not caring for it as much. i did had a hard time in the past for caring for Sonic games when the Sonic games felt like they didn't had enough effort put behind them, (mostly because of Sega managment than their developers tbf) so i understand this feeling.
The discussion of the canon can be fun, i can see the fun of trying to piece everything together, but people usually from my experience at least, generally start being toxic when it comes to discussing that aspect of the series. if Sonic Team is taking the canon serious or are just doing for branding and to shut people up about what is canon or not is arguable.
I do disagree with the argument about tone though, and i disagree HARD, how many franchises have different tones and just work? a lot, and why with Sonic it can't be like that? Zelda have many different tones and just work, Kirby too, why Sonic would be the problem?
I don't see a ton of superiority in the video, more like frustration, and i actually think the Sonic fandom need abit more of Cynicism sometimes, and some Cynicial videos too tbh, i think it is important to have the discussions on what has been happening with the series, the stuff that we don't like, there's a lot of fans that just buy everything and accept everything Sega does and that's not health for the franchise. so i do appreciate the video, although i think somethings should have been clarified better.
Although i think a bit of Cynicism is good, i do think there should be more gratitude and recognition that there has been at least an attempt of doing things right, sure, it might not be a genuine attempt for the sake of doing things right, but it is an effort nonthless, and there are people behind the brand that are genuine trying, even if it's not the main people behind the brand. and... that's not about canon, but i think it's important: not every franchise is still getting games like Sonic, much less multiple games, which sure, they might vary in quality, and they definetly deserve criticism, but there is still attempts there, Sega don't give up on Sonic, no matter how toxic the fanbase is, no matter how much the critics keep being unfair with the franchise from time to time, no matter how much Sonic is treated like a joke by the internet. and as a fan of franchises that don't get new games in years, like Banjo-Kazooie, Rayman, Sly Cooper etc... i can't help but respect Sega for still trying with their mascot, maybe Sonic is too big to kill? but well, Rayman was big for ubisoft too, and Mega Man was huge for capcom, and they still abandoned them, regardless, i think there should be recognition that as much as Sega mismange Sonic, they at least try, and the situation could be much worse, and there is other good franchises getting it worse. and that is something that i think should be more recognized by the fans. Sega DO CARE for Sonic, and people should stop saying they don't, if they don't, Sonic would join the teraphy section of abandoned video game mascots that don't get new games in years like Mega Man, Banjo-Kazooie, Rayman, Sly Cooper, Sparkster (nobody even remember this last one nowadays, lol) and others. if Sega care for the fans, i'm not sure, it's really hard to listen to feedback when there'so many different opnions being thrown around, i do think Sega have a big problem of caring too much for what gaming critics think though, just the fact that they provied IGN exclusive footage for frontiers after how much IGN trashed on Sonic says a lot about it.
7:35 i mean, would it be much of a loss if the shippers were to be gone forever ?
I agree not really a loss if you ask me.
8:33: That segment didn't age well
Pariah is one of my favorite TH-camrs, and I'm very thankful for this video because I believe this kind of criticism can help him improve, and his content can have more of the good stuff and maybe reach more people. His attitude and tone is something he has had trouble correcting, but I think he's aware of that (also I kind of empathize with that because I've personally had that problem before and it doesn't feel good thinking about it). So thank you for pointing these things out.
I think this video sums up my opinion better than my comment on the original video. It felt directed at the fans who wanted to make sense of the Sonic canon, rather than the actual creators who are responsible for any contradictions. Even then, Sonic is fictional and therefore subject to errors.
I think these inconsistencies make for good discussions and theories that promote fun narrative ideas.
I agree to where canon should not determine the value of something. If anything, IDW and Prime would benefit if these things were not canon to the games.
new subscriber. absolutely love your phrasing and voice
You deserved more recognition!
If sonic met the the certain fandoms he would commit a game over
Oh yeah it's my birthday 🥳
@@awsomedude2.053
Happy Birthday!
🎉
@@Laiser thanks man ✌️
Yeah, pariah695 is kind of strict in his content and would go from chill to cruel at times. And even then, I still find myself watching his great videos. I'm glad that there's actually a video dedicated to him. Good work! I wanna see more reaction or response videos like this and talk about what they think about these really interesting videos. Wether it'd be positive or negative.
Though I think his 06 story video deserves some major criticism, because there are just some things he said that i agree with AND A LOT OF THINGS THAT I DISAGREE.
Yeah I thought I was the only one who felt he was seeming to have a strict attitude whenever he talks in his videos
Sounds almost like a smart Alec a little bit
@@justinterry7853He is the 4th Snake of Sonic, lol.
@@banjo9158what's that mean
@@justinterry7853 It's an MK youtuber, he criticizes the bad aspects of the franchise and say things that are true, in kinda of a rude manner, but in a way that sound more like cold facts and satire than arrogance.
@banjo9158 that sounds accurate now, Pariah is probably like that as a way of "Tough love" for Sonic and other games
Despite all this, im still pretty jaded about the canonicity. The "Everything is canon" tweet just screams to me "yeah this continuity is beyond fucking saving lol".
can u do a response to the video about the sonic idw not being canon. i cant be bothered to look at the name but hes mad the comics are canon and stated that just because sega themselves said its canon doesnt mean anything because the creators dont say whats canon or not
I really don't like the idw comics either. The placing is weird, they make weird faces, most of the action usually boils down to beat him or smash that, characters try act like the real deal but they kinda feel like different interpretations than mainline. I also hate how some characters are written. Like omega being used more comedically than before, silver being just the support character, and you know how cream was like the s-tier of the gba sonic games? Yeah, I don't get any of that from these comics. What's this like hero scout or school she goes with the other kids? I forgot.
Though I want to see pariah695's video about the idw comics, because he only showed like two panels of metal sonic when saying that the characters act different in those comics. And I need more details on why those comics are bad.
@crimsonzone8984 have you seen the faces in frontiers. The comics do a way better job with faces and expressions than the games. Also omega is the funniest thing in the comics because he's a killer robot that just says what he means, and it's not like it's nothing new and don't even get me started on silver, dude was always a support character in every game but 06 and dude is op in the comics, like you can't tell me during the metal virus arc that dude is a support character, dude was as much a main character as he was was during 06, moreso then rivals
@@reggielacey2235 You didn't awnser about Cream being in a hero scout school or whatever being some positive.
@banjo9158 I mean. She was never a main hero to begin with and no hero's don't count, they made big a main character. All the comics did was expand on that and why She's able to hang out with sonic and his crew
@@reggielacey2235 why Heroes don't count? what about the advance trilogy and battle?
Is it so hard to just take as canon what happens in the actual games
To Sonic “fans”, unfortunately yes.
I wouldn't say I like or dislike Pariah. Rather, it's that I realize after watching enough of his content that I can't vibe with his viewpoints all of the time just because I agree with some of the things he says. And that's fine. He's just 1 fan like I am. He's not someone I would go out of my way to look up unlike a lot of other Sonic youtubers, but he has his audience for a reason. If other people like Pariah for what he has to say, then that's a good thing.
That being said, I agree with this video on the basis of it largely just attacking fans who liked discussing sonic canon, which is in pretty poor taste. Glad he took it down after hearing the criticism of it. That shows a willingness to admit when he's wrong.
The canon matters greatly to me. I hope to one day get to the bottom of it.
I dunno man, The sonic series has had different sonic teams working on different games since sonic CD and sonic 2, I understand the whole continuity thing and making the games accessible for new players (I started with heroes prime example of that) but I think that if Sega really wanted to keep the series consistent than it might have been more likely that they would have done so from the start. I notice in a lot of Japanese media canon seems to be a little more relative, and I think that Pariah is just trying to point out that we as the sonic fans take the canon too seriously and that might be because of our understanding of western storytelling. I think also that he is trying to say that if allegedly the company does not take it serious we may not have reason to either. I didn't find his take cynical at all, I just think that he was being a little harsh as a response to the intensity of sonic fans, I feel like you might taking it a little too seriously bro. I think he just felt like he had to explain himself for some of the stuff he has said in other videos about sonic stories.
100% Facts
10:07
I agree with Pariah here, I think canon doesn't matter at all and there doesn't even need to be any type of canon. But, I do understand your view and Pariah was a bit harsh on those who like to make their own canons.
Ngl, people should just stfu about Sonic's Characterization as if he was ever consistent through his games to begin with, people have they're own take on the blue blur, we should just stop giving af about it cuz all of them are great
I'm going to be honest most of his videos are pretty bad in my opinion he is way too nitpicky and sometimes it feels like he hates Sonic without he just picks apart every little problem until he completely ruins it for himself I've seen it too many times with people and he's no different
The way he reacts to Movie Sonic is honestly very despicable. And he wants to talk about a “what if I handled the franchise” without using his brain to watch and analyze the most important faction of Sonic that was recently introduced. But he’s willing to spend his days talking about the stories that don’t mean much for the canon or for the series to do.
Look, the canon doesn’t matter because it’s already something that doesn’t exist. They need to reboot the whole thing and choose a new starting point for the canon because after a certain point, the games contradict each other. That’s why there is no canon and that’s why it doesn’t matter anymore because they already messed the whole thing up. Now only a multiverse with timelines can save it if they don’t want a reboot. Also, there is no guarantee Sega won’t hire bad writers again or won’t push the franchise to a bad direction (just look at Sonic Heroes after SA2… such a big shift from the realistic environment with humans to a cartoony looking games without humans). Sega the company(!) doesn’t care and never did.
I don't know why sonic fanboys act like the canon ever mattered or was important to any of the games. The games just do whatever SEGA wants to happen that game and that's it. They should keep doing that.
Exactly. SEGA does not care about Sonic or it’s fans.
the canon does exist tho and sega does care. also heros was great
I keep telling this multiverse thing to other people and they responded that going by that logic is so confusing and convoluted.
Like how are the ones now any better? I think that sonic team's tailstube with amy in it is the right way to go with. SONIC SERIES IS AN EVER BRANCHING MULTIVERSE!
@crimsonzone8984 there is no multiverse. Just because something is sonic related doesn't mean its apart of a multiverse, they are just different universes that have zero connections to each other. And yes idw and prime are canon to the games so they don't count.
yo do u remeber me or nah i used to have u added on discord
4:17
Well, not really. Since there is the Western content if you will.
9:43
Batman!
Yeah there’s was just something off about his video to me
i aggre