Blackened Death Metal band debate with Jason Deaville of Bravewords | LOCK HORNS (archive)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- LOCK HORNS: BLACKENED DEATH METAL dives into the cauldron where two of the most extreme metal genres mix. Host Sam Dunn welcomes back guest co-host JASON DEAVILLE of Bravewords.com to help us to create a new branch of Banger's Metal Family Tree featuring the most essential bands in the Blackened Death Metal Realm. Join us LIVE on Wednesday October 5 at 5pm EST. And don't forget: come ready to fight!
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Any blackened death metal list without the Foo Fighters doesn't know what its taking about. Bad list,
Where the hell is Motley Crue on this board?
I remember Necrophobic - The nocturnal silence as an early example of blackened death.
Again, another band I struggled with, and actually had on my list at one time. Further research and listening of their catalog, and the catalogs of their peers, had me rethinking their place in straight-up Blackened Death Metal. The simple reason being the melodic fluidity that encompasses the entirety of their work. Sure, they also hit one over the head with a fucking ten ton sledgehammer, but not in the same way as the pummeling drive of the more traditional sounding Blackened death bands. It was my opinion that Necrophobic are far too dynamic of a band to include here - and would be better suited at the top of a Melodic Black Metal branch of the tree (if there ever is one), alongside Dissection.
+Jason D I would call Darkside a black metal album (their best one IMO) but apart from that one their foundation has always been death metal (especially The Nocturnal Silence and their early demos), and they've always called themselves death metal from what I can remember. But yeah, I guess they can be pretty hard to categorize.
Necrophobic is a blackened death metal band, period.
Sound quality improved a lot in this episode
Dissection, Necrophobic, Unanimated, Omnizide, Belphegor, Naglfar, Zyklon, Cardinal Sin, Rotting Christ, Blasphemy, Bestial Warlust, Dawn, Sacramentum
God Dethroned is fucking essential for this one.
Agreed! I couldn't leave without them going up... such and underrated band.
Totally agree. I forgot about them. They are kind of the definition of Blackened Death.
This whole episode I was practically yelling "GOD DETHRONED!!!"
I've been watching lock horns episodes back to back from last 24 hours.
I Think you should do this again.
Totally agree
I clicked on this Lock Horns to make sure Behemoth was on here. Lo and behold, Sam starts the video with Ora Pro Nobis Lucifer!
Oh cool, you guys made chose Behemoth as the Legend. Good.
Was literally listening to Lupe Fiasco wearing my Behemoth Satanist shirt today...
Lupe Fiasco and Behemoth
I see you are a man of culture as well
I love Jason, easily the best guest you've had.
I'd include Dawn from Sweden. They became a forgotten band because they still haven't recorded anything for nearly 20 years but still they were very important.
Dawn is great. They got a mention, but were considered to melodic for this category, just like Sacramentum.
what about Hate, from Poland?
Yes to Blackened Thrash!!! Melechesh, Absu, Goatwhore, Skeletonwitch, Witchery, Aura Noir...
Sepultura could be on Black Thrash (more than Blackened Death)
meteor09 I thought MaxC.-Seputura was deathened-thrash metal. I'm looking for deathened-black metal bands...plz name some!!
Not even morbid visions or bestial were black death
Maybe Thulcandra & Dissection...Maybe Dawn & Sacramentum.
Literally all you just mentioned was Melodic Black Metal. Aka Dissection Clones via Dissection.
Jason knows his stuff, him including early sepultura proves this. An actual metalhead who knows what he's talking about! Good job.
You need a "War Metal " branch !?!
I believe that Blackened Death Metal and War Metal are on in the same - with some very slight differences. But, I'm one dude. If others agree with you, perhaps it's something that should be explored =)
No man they are separate sub genres. War metal incorporates grindcore into the mix which gives it a much heavier sound than just a normal blackened death band.
I think it's safe to say all War Metal bands are Blackened Death Metal, but obviously not all Blackened DM bands are War Metal. It's a subsubgenre within the subgenre, and the raw grinding aspect of War Metal should be brought up, which differentiates it from bands like Behemoth and what most acknowledge as Blackened DM today.
Well you got the super group from Norway, War. And, of course, Germany's Sodom.
war metal are bands like Blasphemy or Conquerer
Also, you forget Bestial Warlust, Morbosidad and In Battle
Angelcorpse should be added in the middle section for their first two albums alone. Awesome band.
I seriously had to rewind to make sure I heard that right... "Angel corpse isn't pummeling and in your face enough to be on the list"?? Obviously that's the dudes opinion but I'd like to see anyone listen to the track Christhammer and say that with a straight face
This was the worst part of this episode IMO. No disrespect to Deaville, but he clearly has no idea what the fuck he's talking about when it comes to Angel Corpse.
Yeah, you've got an argument there. I mean, I don't pretend to know every nuance about blackened death metal. It was my opinion that their influence and legacy was more akin to death metal bands like Morbid Angel, Immolation, and Christ Denied, which is quite removed from the sounds of the forerunners of Blackened Death Metal (the bands that did make the board). That being said, 'Christhammer' sounds to me like it could have been ripped from any early Marduk release - and, as those of us know, early Marduk definitely has some blackened death metal elements to it (particularly 'Fuck Me Jesus).
Jason, I'd agree with all your points here. The argument that they weren't extreme enough to make the list is what surprised me the most I guess. Whether they actually meet the criteria for this list is another thing... IMO they do but I'm no expert, just a guy that listens to more metal than is probably recommend for any sane, well adjusted person... as I'm sure most of us do =)
I think it's funny he called them thrash. No, that's 90% death metal at least.
US Power Metal needs its own branch. I'd be one happy camper if that happened. :D
So cool when Jason Mendonca calls in! And right on to Jason for the shout-out to Myrkskog.
Blackened Thrash could totally be its own branch. There are so many bands that really do that style well. From the essentials like Destroyer 666, Angelcorpse, and Goatwhore to the newer bands like Atlas Entity, Skeletonwitch, and Frosthelm there definitely enough awesome bands to make it a branch.
Jon Steele Trench Hell
Great to see God Dethroned on there, go listen to The Grand Grimoire and Bloody Blasphemy, and the blackened elements are in your face.
Their later work may be a bit more death.
Best dutch band imho!
I just started watching this, and was going through the comments to see if anyone remembers God Dethroned. I'm happy to know they made it to the list. Not a fan of Blackened Death, but still enjoy God Dethroned. My favourite Dutch band is Dead Head.
I'd take belphegor over behemoth any day of the week. They have always been killer Black Death.
Behemoth are so overrated
black death is not blackened death metal
@@gulzkrypty4857 Spot on. ;) You're very right.
Belphegor is Blackened Death Metal.
Hypocrisy are the epitome of blackened death.I swear Hypocrisy do not get much love ever.They are a fantastic band and Peter Tagtgren is a metal genius and legend!
I agree. Osculum Obscenum.
No Impiety, Revenge, Black Witchery!?!?
They probably weren't going for the 'War Metal' type of Black Death. Just bands that incorporate some semblance of both Black and Death in their sound.
Guess so... They should do an entire episode on war metal imo
000 000 its too fucking chaotic man...i mean sam isnt brutal enough..
i clicked on this vid for them. So, basically are just doin weak death bands. No Revenge... no watch
War metal branch plz, this was a fuckfest of hit and miss bands
Portal? Banger what are your thoughts on this band?
Portal operate on their own branch. Blackened death isn't a bad label for them but doesn't really capture how unique they are.
They are definitely Avant-garde metal
Experimental/ progressive/ avant-garde blackened death metal
don't forget post metal! we are going to have 14 sub sub genres of black and death before you ever mention huge bands like Isis, Neurosis and Pelican!
We're working on it Anthony!
Psychedelic death/doom metal is gaining traction too, look into some of those bands
But first we must talk about my favourite genre. Depressive Suicidal Black Metal. DSBM. That would be a fun episode;)
Please, please, do not call it post-metal. Pretty much everything referred to as such is just Atmospheric Sludge. People only call it post-metal, because that's what Isis called themselves.
it's kind of an all-encompassing term, granted, but there is nothing sludgy about someone like Russian circles, who are definitely post metal.
I'm surprised Jason mentioned dawn, I'm impressed
Thx, Canteenboy! Bring on a melo black episode, and I'd talk at length about the influence of the mighty Dawn!!!! Have loved them for many years now =)
I picked up the vinyl of their sorg Pa EP about a year ago at dark realm records a coue miles from where Iive, the store is run by the guys from sadistic intent. they're nice guys and will talk to customers about metal for a.long time haha
Yes. Their stuff is hard to find. If I find some Dawn, I'm definitely picking it up. Rare Jewel of metal.
I am sad to say that I think you forgot many of the best bands in this subgenre, but the one that I especially miss is Necros Christos!
And: Swallowed, Krypts, Sonne Adam, Aevangelist, Lantern, Vanhelgd, Impetuous Ritual, Blood Incantation, Lvcifyre, Vorum, Vastum and many more! \m/
I'm suprised their was no mention of HATE. Although recently they have become more of a behemoth clone they definitely are Blackened Death metal.
I agree with you, Hate sounds like behemoth's twin brother...
I love Hate. I struggled whether or not to include them. In the end, after revisiting their entire discography a few times, that they were far too death metal, especially the last couple of releases.
Considering they're the older of the two bands, if my memory recalls correctly, you could say Hate influenced Behemoth.
Exactly took words out of my mouth, Hate all the way
audio was perfect this time! Great episode!
Black Thrash
Black Deathrash
Black Death
Bestial Metal (War Metal/Bestial Black Metal)
Melodic Black Death
What about Eagles of Death Metal?
Dude they are very important band in the genre. How did they miss them?
Another jab at ye olde Sepultura, eh? Gotta love elitists. Do some research.
what tha fuck guys no !no !no! they are not!!!haloo!!!
Fuckin brutal
Somehow, even Sam's writing is metal
Sepultura is not Blackened Death Metal. You guys are breaking the internet.
Enjoying the videos a lot! Thanks for your work.
Cool episode. Could you do episode about avantgarde/experimental deathmetal
God, every time I hear that Ora Pro Nobis intro i get chills down my spine
How in the blue fuck did Revenge/Conqueror not get on the board?
Revenge is war metal and NOT blackened death metal
Too many bands, not enough time. Had Revenge come up in the chat often enough, for sure I would have vouched for their inclusion.
Edgar Sanchez Yes but "war metal" is a subgenre of blackened death, so unless banger did a war metal branch then they should've gone here.
should've, could've, might've... time. We were limited by the amount of time we have.
I would add Poland's Hate very much have a similar sound to behemoth
No CAUTERIZATION AND SARCOFAGO?
"Demigod" by Behemoth is pure Modern Death Metal, not Blackened Death.
I don't know , Demigod has a lot of black atmosphere just like every Behemoth album
@@Julian.Perasso I agree, but there isn't much to go about in terms of "Blackened" especially if you compare it with 'Evangelion' or 'The Satanist'.
@@TheCryptCrawler yeah , they were more brutal in their previous work , now they're focusing more on the black side of the fence that's right
Not sure how any of these bands weren’t mentioned but here you go:
Anaal Nathrakh
Rebaelliun
Hate
Setherial
Enthroned
Necronomicon
Raise Hell
Arkhon Infaustus
Naglfar
Panzerchrist
Vesania
Glad the audio is fixed!
I thought Lock Horns established a precedent that one album shouldn't warrant inclusion on the tree, so that would rule out Sepultura. I would also omit Deicide and Morbid Angel. Aren't they integral to the Florida death metal scene?
Looking forward to a blackened thrash episode!
it's one album that informed/influenced many of the best bands in both genres... i think it's worthy.
You fucking spelled Akercocke wrong 29:12, cmon guys....
We know. And now our typo will live on forever.... :-(
You locked out comments for your feminist metal debate which means I have to post this shit here. If you're worried about safe spaces and micro aggressions, you're not metal
Blasphemy should be on top... on historical reasons...
please do brutal death metal, slam death metal, goregrind and deathgrind
Why not any Aussie bands destroyer 666 come on don't for get about the fucking Australian bands
AngelCorpse, Blackened Thrash???!!! Pure Morbid Angel worship, Death Metal to the core!
Excalty
Damn, Myrkskog... Good call. Fucking great, long forgotten, band... They definitely fit the bill for black/death, along with Zyklon, who were mentioned for like, one second lol.
Where is Archgoat?!!!
They made it up there. End of the episode.
Deicide, Morbid Angel and Vader are Pure Death Metal with Satanic Lyrics... Morbid Angel branched out the with Keyboards and Atmospheric feel to the Brutality, But are still Pure Fucking Florida Death Metal.. Cheers \m/ \m/
Teitanblood, Dragged Into Sunlight, Profanatica.
great episode. do black doom, or a whole episode about Stephen O Malley
freakydruid I'd like this comment 100 times if I could
Next Lock Horns should be over Death/Grind
hmmmm... would be a good one! What would your picks be?
Brutal Truth, Assuck, Soilent Green, Misery Index, Cephalic Carnage... that's a few that would make my Death/Grind blackboard
josh harris And bands you could described as "deathened-black metal" would be?? Black metal music with cookie monster vocals is what I am looking for. Any advice is appreciated.
and From Enslavement To Obliteration...
Oh, and the band Lock Up.
Next episode needs to be on war metal
I prefer deathened black metal but whatever floats your boat I guess
Should've put BLASPHEMY on there first!!! Also, how could MYSTIFIER be left out!?!?!? They've got the perfect black/death sound hands down!!!
Lol, that line, "Not black enough to belong", that's a keeper right there. xD
Noctem and Hate are both bands that completely encapsulate the genre of Blanked Death Metal.
I second Hate for sure.
I really think that, whenever Lock Horns comes back, we're going to need a war metal/bestial black metal episode. While the inclusions of Blasphemy and Archgoat here were certainly gratifying, that style really is its own animal and arguably has more to do with the rise of grindcore and what was going on in Colombia and Brazil in the '80s with bands like Parabellum and Sarcofago than what Behemoth and Necrophobic kicked off in the '90s.
1st band I think of is actually a band from my Home Country Denmark : Panzerchrist (w. Bo Summer from Illdisposed on vox) Morbid Angel - Covenant.. But is it only DM w. Satanic lyrics? Or is it riffs & apperance??
Can't believe they didn't add angel corpse,
I remember jay back when he was in the blood of Christ. We played with them many times. Good to see your doing well jay.
Skeletonwitch I'd say could fit up there. They're about 33.3% Black Metal, 33.3% Melodic Death Metal, and 33.3% Thrash Metal
I saw them a few times years ago, in opening slots, in Brooklyn. They were great. I just don't recall them being Black.
Listen to 'Hammer of Gods', and 'Exterminate' and call Angelcorpse thrash one more time. You'd have to be deaf to not hear the death metal in this band...
Edit: Much like Chuck is a God (rightly so) within the death metal genre, Pete Helmkamp could be a contender for that title within Blackened Death.
I've listened - many, many times. Too these ears (which, in my defense, are old, and don't work like they did twenty-five years ago), I hear speed/black/thrash metal - in the vein of early Sodom, Kreator (thrash). I also hear elements that more closely resemble black metal proper - like mid-era Marduk. The heavier 'death metal' sound that all the Angelcorpse lovers are throwing out in the comments stem from Pete's work in Order From Chaos, which I find to be more grind influenced with hints at death metal proper. Anyway, I don't pretend to know everything, so had there been more discussion in the live chat of Angelcorpse, things could have definitely swayed in their favor to get them on the board.
Fair play to you, Jason, I just disagree on the "absence" of Death Metal in Angelcorpse.
I too hear the things you mention, but I also hear a strong death metal vibe in most of their songs. No it's not the heavy, crushing death metal of Obituary, but more in vein of Altars.. -era Morbid Angel.
I also disagree with putting Sepultura - for 1(!!!) record, as the 'proto' -band as Bestial Devastation and Morbid Visions has also been blackened thrash templates to me.
But, I'm still looking very much forward to that episode, as well as a melodic black metal episode (in which Dissection has to be the Legend band) as I feel that those episodes could bring me some new bands to listen to.
what was the logo you not used in this debate? there was one stil on the table
Funny story. I saw belphegor when they came to Amarillo, TX and played a show in town. Their sound guy came up to me asking about stuff in the area and i was like ya i know stuff so they pulled me out back and all the dudes were freaking out over a centipede that apparently had sneaked into one of their packs and they asked me what it was. Of course they were like is it poisonous and i was like ya, then one of the guys poured beer on it and i shook everyone's hand and said yall did a badass job, then grabbed my best friend and they gave her autographs :D
Would of really liked to see Portal get mentioned though perhaps that could be for yet another subsubgenre of Blackened Atmospheric Death Metal. Definitely seconding an additional subsubgenre for War Metal/Bestial Black Metal though, which is where you can put Blasphemy, Archgoat, Conqueror, Revenge, and all those bands.
Portal, to these ears, are an Atmospheric Black Metal band. I had the pleasure of seeing them live in Baltimore several years back, and they definitely came across as a spooky-as-fuk death metal band.
Really? I'd argue they are death metal first and foremost. The blackened aspect largely comes from the atmosphere, and the production and tone turns the whole sound into a plague of locusts beyond any of the earlier murky bands like Incantation. You brought up Antediluvian in the video which I think also fits in really well with Portal.
Like I mentioned with the "Blackened Atmospheric Death Metal" suggestion, I think there's a lot to be said about up and coming bands taking these influences and really running with them, such as Irkallian Oracle, Desolate Shrine, Abyssal, Aevangelist, and Impetuous Ritual that could call for inclusion.
you make a great point. I would add Ulcerate to that list, and perhaps Chthe'ilist.
Definitely agreed there. I don't particularly feel that Ulcerate is blackened, but they wear their Deathspell Omega influences on their sleeves which I think would suffice.
Blackened thrash? Skeleton witch
Forest of impaled, Bloodthorn, angelcorpse, where are these bands FFS
I would like to throw in Portal from Australia, they're easily the scariest band out there
Blackend Death metal began in the late 90's not early 90's! Second.
If Blasphemy is Blackend Death metal than you should also add Morbid Angel. Altars of Madness is a Blackend death metal album because of their are Satanic themes and dark atmosphere. If not, you should also skip Dissection.
I whould Skip Sepultura also, they have nothing to do with Black metal or Death metal, and where the hell is Arkhon Infaustus and Zyklon? Skip also God Dethroned the are not Brutal and sinister enough. They sound more like Judas Priest/Amon Amarth rather than Behemoth and Belphegor
Arkhon Infaustus.
SCEPTIC FLESH!! In my humble opinion up there with God Dethroned & Behemoth.
They far to symphonic for blackened death metal
God Dethroned FTW - The Toxic Touch is a fucking masterpiece \m/
2:23 Sigh metal, sly metal, sign metal, psy metal... what is he saying there? Can't look it up either.
He said "Slam Metal" which is a new one for me. It's supposedly brutal, but I don't know how to classify it.
I've been watching Lock Horns since day 1 and you've always said, "one album alone isn't enough to make it on the board". With that logic, Sepultura should have never been considered since they only have one that might be "proto blackened death" (and that's a stretch).
I broke the 'rules' a little with this one, only because of its influence and long-lasting legacy. It is an album that informed the best of the best from both death and black metal.
That's true. Thinking back, there have been bands I've wanted to see on the boards that only had one relevant album. Ok man, you can keep your cape! :P
cant believe didnt mention Beherit!!!
bj gross There early material was War Metal metal or Bestial Black Metal
Its Black/Death Metal not Blackened death.
Well damn! I thought I just made that name up, combing two favorite genres of one of my music projects with such a title. Very cool it's a real genre! Sincerely enjoy all of Sam Dunn's work.👍🏻 Always entertains, as well as informs. Keep up the awesome work!
🤘🏻👹🤘🏻
How could you forget about Vital Remains!!! Any way great episode. Still wating for Postmetal
Thank you so much for bringing these videos. Since you created Headbangers journey years ago, I started watching out every videos you release. Please continue with your work. Haaaiills from Philippines!
I absolutely love the show! I would like to hear music from the band being discussed played in the background. That would satisfy my metal thirst while watching.
Hmm can something like corpse paint which doesn't directly affect the music really make a difference in which subgenre a band is in? Tnis is in response to something a chatter said pretty early in.
what's happening with the sound?
So this is my favorite area of metal, especially dissection and lord belial I think the only dissection material that is remotely death metal is the early mischief, i would not even call reinkaos death metal that album created something totally unique. And as for people talking about deicide and vital remains, i think people only say that for satanic lyrics i really cannot hear any black in their sound.
xSynner i love lord belial and dissection too. Dark funeral's latest album has a bit of a dissection flavour too it, if you haven't checked it out already.
Dissection should be placed in Melo!!
AGREED! Dissection at the TOP of a melo branch!
Thulcandra are like a Polish Dissection tribute band. They don't do covers; they just straight up cop the exact same style as Somberlain/Storm of the Light's Bane. It's not a bad thing, seeing as how there will be no more Dissection...
I want Atmospheric Black Metal like Summoning. Oh and Blackgaze!!!
This is a little bit off of the topic.. Is there genre of metal called blackened power metal?
i like medium rare death metal more tbh
So this dude thinks sepulutra should be on the list of blackened death metal origins, but is on the fense about Dissection? Are you fucking high? Too melodic? Have they even listened to Belphegor? For the record, I'd put Dissection at the top for being the godfathers, and I'd put Belphegor second for perfecting the sound. Behemoth would be third. Just my perspective. Dissection are the first though, without a doubt. Sepultura? Damn. Slayer would be a more relevant band to mention regarding blackened death before sepultura. Dude is a million miles off target at that point.
Black/thrash could also easily fit Skeletonwitch in along with Goatwhore
and witchery dude, desaster, bestial mockery , fucking great black/thrash bands
I like Jason, but what is he talking about with Belphegor??? He says they added Death Metal elements later? They were a lot more into DEATH METAL in the beginning as their EP Bloodbath in paradise and the debut The last supper are far less BM influenced than their later albums. Blutsabbath was a standout album as they used more BM styled vocals on this album than before and after. From Necrodaemon Terrorsathan on they played their typical Blackened Death Metal style they are known for nowadays I think.
1. They forgot to move the Dissection sticker to melodic black metal section.
2. Deicide & Morbid Angel aren't remotely close to blsck metal.
3. Where the fuck is Hate, Infernal war, Crionics, or Azarath?
Got the B's, but neglected the A's; Azarath, Arkhon Infasutus, Angelcorpse, Anima Damnata
What’s with the Hate omission?
add skeletonwitch to blackened thrash
All hail Behemoth! You say blackened death metal you think Behemoth!
ANGELCORPSE... \m/ \m/
behemoth ?? seriously ???? NECROVORE !!! SADISTIK EXEKUTION !!!