Every call is like: -Hey Bart, I was in this sick cooler the other day and I was just wondering if there was any way I could've gotten away. -Nope, looks like a sick cooler. Plus your opponent looks fishy. -OK, thanks!
Only just discovered this channel. 2 videos in, and even though I know I done it in the past, it boils down to don't set mine with small pairs, calling 3 bets.. that's a leak even with just fold on the flop.
On the flop I think im raising because I know I can take the main pot from the over pair from the short stack. This defines V2s hand. Good idea from Bart that he wanted to feign weakness on the flop to build a side pot with a set. Think I have to fold to the backraise as I've shown a ton of strength and he comes over the top.
I like preflop, we are in position against both villains, I'm seeing a flop every time. On the flop, I like flatting because I'm not looking to get in 600bbs here with bottom set so my plan is to keep villains range wide by calling down.
Villain was thinking the same thing hero was pre flop about hitting a set and building a side pot against hero. The back raise is terrible though, he just got lucky that hero also hit set. Sometimes the poker Gods smile upon bad plays.
I agree that this could have been avoided with a pre flop fold. The raise back seems like 77. Though 66/88/KK/AA could also potentially be out there. Great hand to demonstrate why information that we source ourselves about our Villains are so important!
I agree with Berts suggestion to fold pre. We call for implied odds, but if the other deep player is doing the same thing, then they are just not there. On a flop like K84 we dont get stacked, but we also dont get paid, because 77 is just going to check-fold. So we dont win the hand very often, when we win its only a small or medium pot, and once in a moon we lose a huge pot.
Dream Crusher that's what was said. Doesn't mean it's true. Just a piece of information that contributed to the thinking process of the hand. Not a fact, and obviously after this hand was deemed completely untrue.
Sorry, the point Bart made was what chance does V flat AA pf and get it in thinking Hero has QQ type hand versus a hand like 55 or 77 - when he posed that question, I thought it was unlikely
So you are set mining but when you hit you set you are going to fold? Another reason to check flop so you get a feel for where you are at...if you aren't calling the shove...what would you have done if he value bet every street...you would have called every street and still lost all your money?
Why couldn't V call pre knowing Hero might call behind with his stack? Hero flatted V's raise already and the 110 3bet isnt that bad to call if Hero calls as well. It's only 85 more for Hero.
Yes i dont really get the preflop analysis on this one,ok heads up v Old Man Coffee (supposedly super nitty,but we've all heard these wrong reads repeatedly on this show) he should fold a small pair but if you think the player behind will come along then i cant see anything wrong with it especially deepstacked.The reason V didnt reraise pre is not because he had AA,KK and was hpoing to reel in the hero its ore likely he has a hand that might do well multiway if it hits.
Bart is a good pro, but his reasoning doesnt make a whole lot of sense. V1 raising with 77s mid is a bit aggressive but not out of line. When SB back raise, there's no reason for him to isolate. Because theres a chance hero will fold or hero wont back raise and call, it make sense when they are both deep. On the flop, a good player wont jam AA or KK there on that texture out of position. Villian already knows hero didnt back raise preflop, so if he did have AA or KK jamming would be a terrible move. It would be call flop and play turns. Jamming by villain if he had AA or KK doesnt accomplish a whole lot, he would get call when he's beat. The only bluffs i can see from villain is 66s. 96 doesnt make any sense. And he said it himself on a lot of occasions about mid stakes, ppl are less likely to have those type of bluffs at these stakes
@Cousin Jimmy Farha True a lot of people disrespect the old books now but there is a lot of wisdom there,A lot of Barts hand reading in these videos has a lot of "he cant have xx here because he woulda done this pre or done this on the flop or turn" so people are then calling down,bluffcatching with mediocre hands based on the way they play" and then when V turns over the nuts we get "oh wow he played that hand terribly,you lost your stack with 2nd pair on a flush/straight board but you made the right call" . Look most of the time big bets = big hand.
I have raised on the flop in Hero's spot because I put the V on a draw and wanted to get more money in because I had a marginal hand and knew I didn't have an overpair beat.
Assumptions that might be wrong: "It's a tight old guy. It's a new table but you can just tell" could be false. "What I have been told" could be false. "V is a good player" could be false. "He wouldn't play 7's like this" could be false. "Villain thinks the old guy is OMC" could be false. Now remove the assumptions and replay the hand analysis. It changes quite a bit. V puts hero on an over-pair and assumes he will call off on shove. Therefore, this might be true: V thinks Hero is a fish.
True. Villain thinks hero is a fish and calls the 3bet to get implied odds against hero, which will call in position (he thinks hero will call, because he sees him as fish)
I thing for sure, Hero does what a lot of young over-aggressive players do, play garbage hands pre-flop. Just that he said that he had never been in that spot, shows a lot of inexperience
I think as played 44 is a fold. Hero is showing alot of strength with raising the flop and if this villain has any kind of hand reading ability he would never shove an overpair.
(Just my opinion - not results oriented) I even like fold to the original 5x open with 44, especially with a short stack behind you and the raise coming from a player with a reputation as a good player who we may not be able to exploit by calling - Pio/Snowie/Nash Ranges for Purchase would recommend a fold to even a 3x open. One exception is if there is a deep action player behind us, especially if he is in the blinds. As played, I like a flat on the flop, but if we really would like to raise here, I like making it $400 to fold 44 to a jam, and call 55 and 77. At the very least, as played, flip a coin to call off 44. If we call 44 here, we are exploiting our opponent or at the very least the player pool, and I don't think the logic agreed on between Bart and the caller is enough to justify calling off 100% of our hands here. These frequencies add up even if we'll never see how while getting 30 hands/hr. Nice videos Bart - keep up the good work! You have an enormous amount of player pool knowledge and understanding of player tendencies that I aspire to build over my career, and you have been doing a fantastic job at incorporating strategies built on game theory elements in live games when the situations call for it.
I've seen in tournament play , where it is even more important not to push your opponent out of the pot and just check it down to eliminate the all in guy, and people do wacky shit with AK, on a board like this hoping to jam/squeeze you out of the hand with your medium over pair, thinking that he can beat the all in guy who has AQ or a draw.
I just don't see a "Good" player flatting AA or especially KK there and giving a good price for someone to flat IP that deep. If you were 100-150bb maybe but giving someone those IO when they are IP? Nah. As played, I'd have folded the river. But, totally agreed w Bart re the fold pre.
Villain2 3 bets to $110 with only $200 behind and middle position mysteriously flats and you have 44 in the cutoff facing a $85 call. Seems like an auto fold there.
When MP comes into the pot with 3k and we have him covered, I think it's okay to sometimes call and set-mine. I wouldn't do it all the time, but in terms of pure effective stack sizes we are deep enough. A rough rule of thumb is that we need effective stacks to be 20x what we're calling pre to make set-mining profitable, and they have about 35x the $85 call. Again, that's a rough rule of thumb. There are other factors of course, including how likely it is that V will ever put 400-600bb into a pot without the absolute stones. I'd personally just fold, but I don't think it's terrible either.
we don't know that he's a good player; only hero's assumption - Bart made a key point regarding V having AA/KK pre and just flatting vs 55 77 or the unlikely 68 - if he's a competent player, the parlay of him flatting KK/AA preflop and bet getting it in with an over pair doesn't make sense. I know if I had AA on that board and bet and got raised, that's a tough spot. Don't know if I get away immediately, but would think about it, particularly because there's an all in. I probably flat and see a turn - definitely not raising all in. With that said, I may call it off in the heat of battle with 44 getting 2-1
If V is a decent player, he would know the Hero has all the sets and straights, so for him to Jam with just an overpair is a rookie mistake and not indicative of a decent player.
Why would you want to get into a hand with a tight player that 3-bets, when you only have pocket 4's. When tight players start to 3-bet, run for the hills, unless you've got a premium hand too. Of course both players suck out and hit their sets.
that bet looks like a spaz by some pretty bad player with pocket rockets to me (edit) and i would've gone broke...lol ...tough spot but i don't see how you can lay it down
I totally disagree with bart saying i will call off any good player would will check back AA on this flop some of the time re raising to 110 to try to isolate with the short stack is ok with 77 he said himself he perceived him as a good player why would he go all in with AA or KK fold and live to fold again stu ungar.
Well guy rersie with two hundred behind I don't see the guy flatting with AA to trap the third players, it's hard to fold a set but I know the guy won't raise all in with AA just because he said he a good players , donkeys do that not good players
What's the point of playing so deep if you're going to be a super nit cause lul 600 blinds. And if you're considering not taking a flop with 44 in position in a 3 bet pot 600 blinds deep why are u even playing super standard call there.
I agree that this could have been avoided with a pre flop fold. The raise back seems like 77. Though 66/88/KK/AA could also potentially be out there. Great hand to demonstrate why information that we source ourselves about our Villains are so important!
![สาวเมืองเพชร - ธีเดช ทองอภิชาติ [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kEt7F9PvO3I/mqdefault.jpg)
Every call is like:
-Hey Bart, I was in this sick cooler the other day and I was just wondering if there was any way I could've gotten away.
-Nope, looks like a sick cooler. Plus your opponent looks fishy.
-OK, thanks!
this is low/mid stakes live poker in as few words as possible
Tfyg
"It's crazy that he called preflop with just 7s... Of course I called with 4s."
This 1 is a good hand to learn from. I agree with Bart's take on this 100%
Only just discovered this channel. 2 videos in, and even though I know I done it in the past, it boils down to don't set mine with small pairs, calling 3 bets.. that's a leak even with just fold on the flop.
On the flop I think im raising because I know I can take the main pot from the over pair from the short stack. This defines V2s hand.
Good idea from Bart that he wanted to feign weakness on the flop to build a side pot with a set.
Think I have to fold to the backraise as I've shown a ton of strength and he comes over the top.
I like preflop, we are in position against both villains, I'm seeing a flop every time. On the flop, I like flatting because I'm not looking to get in 600bbs here with bottom set so my plan is to keep villains range wide by calling down.
Villain was thinking the same thing hero was pre flop about hitting a set and building a side pot against hero. The back raise is terrible though, he just got lucky that hero also hit set. Sometimes the poker Gods smile upon bad plays.
I agree that this could have been avoided with a pre flop fold. The raise back seems like 77. Though 66/88/KK/AA could also potentially be out there. Great hand to demonstrate why information that we source ourselves about our Villains are so important!
I agree with Berts suggestion to fold pre. We call for implied odds, but if the other deep player is doing the same thing, then they are just not there. On a flop like K84 we dont get stacked, but we also dont get paid, because 77 is just going to check-fold. So we dont win the hand very often, when we win its only a small or medium pot, and once in a moon we lose a huge pot.
Bart, If V is supposedly a "good player", what do you think of his call pf of 85 w 77? from old man coffee w a 300 stack?
Dream Crusher that's what was said. Doesn't mean it's true. Just a piece of information that contributed to the thinking process of the hand. Not a fact, and obviously after this hand was deemed completely untrue.
Havent heard the end but im snap calling
Sorry, the point Bart made was what chance does V flat AA pf and get it in thinking Hero has QQ type hand versus a hand like 55 or 77 - when he posed that question, I thought it was unlikely
gotta love Canadians...Bart: "this is an easy fold really but i'm guessing you called?" ....Brendan "yup".....casual..
So you are set mining but when you hit you set you are going to fold? Another reason to check flop so you get a feel for where you are at...if you aren't calling the shove...what would you have done if he value bet every street...you would have called every street and still lost all your money?
Why couldn't V call pre knowing Hero might call behind with his stack? Hero flatted V's raise already and the 110 3bet isnt that bad to call if Hero calls as well. It's only 85 more for Hero.
Yes i dont really get the preflop analysis on this one,ok heads up v Old Man Coffee (supposedly super nitty,but we've all heard these wrong reads repeatedly on this show) he should fold a small pair but if you think the player behind will come along then i cant see anything wrong with it especially deepstacked.The reason V didnt reraise pre is not because he had AA,KK and was hpoing to reel in the hero its ore likely he has a hand that might do well multiway if it hits.
Bart is a good pro, but his reasoning doesnt make a whole lot of sense. V1 raising with 77s mid is a bit aggressive but not out of line. When SB back raise, there's no reason for him to isolate. Because theres a chance hero will fold or hero wont back raise and call, it make sense when they are both deep. On the flop, a good player wont jam AA or KK there on that texture out of position. Villian already knows hero didnt back raise preflop, so if he did have AA or KK jamming would be a terrible move. It would be call flop and play turns. Jamming by villain if he had AA or KK doesnt accomplish a whole lot, he would get call when he's beat. The only bluffs i can see from villain is 66s. 96 doesnt make any sense. And he said it himself on a lot of occasions about mid stakes, ppl are less likely to have those type of bluffs at these stakes
@Cousin Jimmy Farha True a lot of people disrespect the old books now but there is a lot of wisdom there,A lot of Barts hand reading in these videos has a lot of "he cant have xx here because he woulda done this pre or done this on the flop or turn" so people are then calling down,bluffcatching with mediocre hands based on the way they play" and then when V turns over the nuts we get "oh wow he played that hand terribly,you lost your stack with 2nd pair on a flush/straight board but you made the right call" .
Look most of the time big bets = big hand.
I have raised on the flop in Hero's spot because I put the V on a draw and wanted to get more money in because I had a marginal hand and knew I didn't have an overpair beat.
Assumptions that might be wrong:
"It's a tight old guy. It's a new table but you can just tell" could be false.
"What I have been told" could be false.
"V is a good player" could be false.
"He wouldn't play 7's like this" could be false.
"Villain thinks the old guy is OMC" could be false.
Now remove the assumptions and replay the hand analysis. It changes quite a bit.
V puts hero on an over-pair and assumes he will call off on shove. Therefore, this might be true: V thinks Hero is a fish.
True. Villain thinks hero is a fish and calls the 3bet to get implied odds against hero, which will call in position (he thinks hero will call, because he sees him as fish)
I thing for sure, Hero does what a lot of young over-aggressive players do, play garbage hands pre-flop. Just that he said that he had never been in that spot, shows a lot of inexperience
I think as played 44 is a fold. Hero is showing alot of strength with raising the flop and if this villain has any kind of hand reading ability he would never shove an overpair.
(Just my opinion - not results oriented) I even like fold to the original 5x open with 44, especially with a short stack behind you and the raise coming from a player with a reputation as a good player who we may not be able to exploit by calling - Pio/Snowie/Nash Ranges for Purchase would recommend a fold to even a 3x open. One exception is if there is a deep action player behind us, especially if he is in the blinds. As played, I like a flat on the flop, but if we really would like to raise here, I like making it $400 to fold 44 to a jam, and call 55 and 77. At the very least, as played, flip a coin to call off 44. If we call 44 here, we are exploiting our opponent or at the very least the player pool, and I don't think the logic agreed on between Bart and the caller is enough to justify calling off 100% of our hands here. These frequencies add up even if we'll never see how while getting 30 hands/hr.
Nice videos Bart - keep up the good work! You have an enormous amount of player pool knowledge and understanding of player tendencies that I aspire to build over my career, and you have been doing a fantastic job at incorporating strategies built on game theory elements in live games when the situations call for it.
*Maybe Bart is assuming the caller can have QQ and JJ here, in which case calling 44 makes sense.
I've seen in tournament play , where it is even more important not to push your opponent out of the pot and just check it down to eliminate the all in guy, and people do wacky shit with AK, on a board like this hoping to jam/squeeze you out of the hand with your medium over pair, thinking that he can beat the all in guy who has AQ or a draw.
Sick sick hand
1 thing for sure, villain is a bad player
I'd fold but if you hit your set then it's just time to go broke.
I just don't see a "Good" player flatting AA or especially KK there and giving a good price for someone to flat IP that deep. If you were 100-150bb maybe but giving someone those IO when they are IP? Nah. As played, I'd have folded the river. But, totally agreed w Bart re the fold pre.
Villain2 3 bets to $110 with only $200 behind and middle position mysteriously flats and you have 44 in the cutoff facing a $85 call. Seems like an auto fold there.
+YoreyC ☝this☝
When MP comes into the pot with 3k and we have him covered, I think it's okay to sometimes call and set-mine. I wouldn't do it all the time, but in terms of pure effective stack sizes we are deep enough. A rough rule of thumb is that we need effective stacks to be 20x what we're calling pre to make set-mining profitable, and they have about 35x the $85 call. Again, that's a rough rule of thumb. There are other factors of course, including how likely it is that V will ever put 400-600bb into a pot without the absolute stones. I'd personally just fold, but I don't think it's terrible either.
Implied odds. An excuse for you to make a questionable call and see a flop.
we don't know that he's a good player; only hero's assumption - Bart made a key point regarding V having AA/KK pre and just flatting vs 55 77 or the unlikely 68 - if he's a competent player, the parlay of him flatting KK/AA preflop and bet getting it in with an over pair doesn't make sense. I know if I had AA on that board and bet and got raised, that's a tough spot. Don't know if I get away immediately, but would think about it, particularly because there's an all in. I probably flat and see a turn - definitely not raising all in. With that said, I may call it off in the heat of battle with 44 getting 2-1
Agreed, plus who would just flat AA or KK pre 600bb deep OOP?!?!?! Fine, if you're 150bb deep but this is a nightmare for AA IMO.
I was thinking sixes.
This deep, I don't think villain will get it in with anything that we beat barring an absolute maniac with a lot of money.
If V is a decent player, he would know the Hero has all the sets and straights, so for him to Jam with just an overpair is a rookie mistake and not indicative of a decent player.
Folding a small pair preflop? Get outa here with that.
not at those depths...but i can understand his reasoning...
hahaha didn’t even bothered asking if he caught the case 4
77 or 66?
“It’s a new table, I haven’t seen him play any hands” 🙄
Sounds like he was playing against Mike Postle.....
Why would you want to get into a hand with a tight player that 3-bets, when you only have pocket 4's. When tight players start to 3-bet, run for the hills, unless you've got a premium hand too. Of course both players suck out and hit their sets.
that bet looks like a spaz by some pretty bad player with pocket rockets to me (edit) and i would've gone broke...lol ...tough spot but i don't see how you can lay it down
No
Could he have 6s? That's the same shit as having 😂
Bart u are a super nit bro
I totally disagree with bart saying i will call off any good player would will check back AA on this flop some of the time re raising to 110 to try to isolate with the short stack is ok with 77 he said himself he perceived him as a good player why would he go all in with AA or KK fold and live to fold again stu ungar.
Well guy rersie with two hundred behind I don't see the guy flatting with AA to trap the third players, it's hard to fold a set but I know the guy won't raise all in with AA just because he said he a good players , donkeys do that not good players
What's the point of playing so deep if you're going to be a super nit cause lul 600 blinds. And if you're considering not taking a flop with 44 in position in a 3 bet pot 600 blinds deep why are u even playing super standard call there.
"whats the point of playing so deep with 600 blinds........?" because people like you will call off with just one out
26bisket if you're not snapping it in here it's nit rolling
nope...you're only beating a badly overplayed AA or whatever
is villai has half a brain, hes not doing it with a draw or overpair, lets be real
the idiot set :p
I agree that this could have been avoided with a pre flop fold. The raise back seems like 77. Though 66/88/KK/AA could also potentially be out there. Great hand to demonstrate why information that we source ourselves about our Villains are so important!
the way he described that other player, you think he had 77? i thought for sure someone with AA or maybe KK betting for protection