One interesting about flowey is that during the neutral final battle... Floweys level is 9999 But he still wants more to become beyond invincible...A God. That can't be hurt.
I’m pretty sure that’s a level with the six souls, there’s not enough monsters in the underground for that level, and you get mass evacuation just by killing a few dozens
Interesting fact here: In undertale, every time you reach a now level, you get +4 maximum HP. In LV 1, you have 20HP; in LV2, you have 24; in LV3, you have 28; etc. You start with 20 HP and your LV can go up to 20. That means that at the end of the genocide route, your max HP is supposed to be 20 + 19×4, which is 96 But this doesn't happen. In undertale, _if you reach the greatest level, you skip 96._ Instead, the game insists on giving you 99HP at the end of the run, because you reached the absolute. There's nothing past it. There's no number bigger. It's cool to see the number 9 becoming this new symbol with this new interpretation of it. I like it.
Oh wow that's actually extremely interesting. That just reminded me that in the fangame Undertale Yellow, if you reach LV 20 you actually skip 96 like in Undertale but get to 100 HP instead of 99, seems that choice aged very well since 9's are now becoming so heavily associated with Chara. Common UTY W.
Quick mathematical correction. Since you start at LV 1 and not 0, being at LV 20 would give you 96 HP and not 100 (remember that in LV 19 in Sans’s fight, you have 92 HP). That means the number is actually more than what it should be, not a limit that prevents 100 HP
I thought I was the only one who realized this! Besides, the fact your LV starts at 1 with 20 HP and finishes at 20 with 99 HP always seemed "poetic" to me. Not only that, but also, theax amount of monsters to kill in the Ruins is 20. At Hotland, it is 40, the double of 20. Legendary HEROES heal 40 HP and add 4 to your ATK. At LV 19, you have 9"2" HP and 4 defense. Chara's power if often represented by Attack, meanwhile, during Neutral and Pacifist run, wich Frisk "shines", your most important stats are DEF. Frisk deals 20 thousand dmg to the bosses at genocide, except for MTT Neo, wich he deals 40 thousand dmg. Sans, Asgore and Flowey are killed by Chara, not Frisk. Frisk represents the number "2" and "20" and it's doubles (×2), Chara represents "9", Sans represents "1", and Asriel represents the infinity. Another thing that may relate Undyne to Chara, is thay Undyne has 20 thousand HP, while the absolute LV is 20. Thinking this way, we can conclute that Frisk reaches his absolute with the number 20, Chara with 9, Sans never reachs his absolute, Asriel IS the absolute, and Undyne mirrors both Frisk and Chara. At geno run, Frisk and Chara control the same body, that's why it has lots of 20 and 9, and Undyne mirrors them, Chara's power and DT along with (pacofist) Frisk's kindness and altruism.
makes the fact Flowey states they've "done everything this world has to offer" even worse tbh. without Chara he was faced with another of his fears... no more memories to make... but hey we return ... until we don't and he dies...
Replaying the game you start to realize how important "9999" is. It's flowey's level of violence and time, it's the damage you deal to sans. It's the damage chara does to you. it's in more places than you'd expect
9:41 The best part is that Undyne's stats are perfectly mirrored in the Real Knife and The Locket. It's not just a good comparison. It's completely 1 to 1.
Undyne the Undying is literally in UT the Strongest Monster ever vs the future Strongest Human ever. End well for the sans fight it's the absolute oposite, THe Weakes monster vs The Strongest Human. No matter if you have the strongest weapon, he will dodge you No matter if you have the strongest armor, his attacks will melt you anyways
9s and 6s are very important int he game. 6 because it's linked with gaster and 9 because of chara flower . And -9 being sans. And ironically a 6 is a flipped nine
considering that asriel says that Chara "[didn't go down Mt. Ebott] for a happy reason", and how Chara acts and treats others in the story, i think it's safe to say that Chara definitely went through trauma before. what kind of trauma? never really confirmed, maybe abuse from parents, maybe they're a sociopath or psychopath (genetics can increase the likelihood of the latter), but whatever it is, it caused Chara to have a deep hatred for humanity, either so they could get a scapegoat for their own personal issues or since humanity wronged them i think it's most likely child abuse or negligent parents, considering how the topic is being explored in deltarune through susie + it just feels right
Yeah, not to mention we know why they fell wasn't a very happy reason, plus their plan to break the barrier involved, well, the ending of their own life Q-Q The 'nothing can hurt *anyone* anymore' is also heartbreaking ;-;
Your idea, plus the fact that Chara hated humanity and is associated so much with the *Genocide* Route makes me think that maybe they are the survivor of a (human-on-human) genocide themselves?
@@EnoEso well, I'm gonna believe they went through neglect because who tf lets their kid climb some mountain in which no one returns without a care in the world? (haha care-uhh, chara i just realised lol)
This completely supports my theory that the worn dagger is the real knife. It is because in a pacifist or neutral run, you are controlling frisk. Frisk’s perspective of the dagger and locket are just that they are a little stronger tools that could be useful. In a no mercy route however, as you level up you awaken chara with your power. And towards the end you are controlling chara. Who sees the dagger and locket as the absolute pinnacle of power they could have. Not just some stronger tools.
I'm surprised you say it is a theory. They are in the same places in both routes, I always just thought it was canon that the change in stats was merely a change in perspective.
My theory is that frisk is just a reincarnation of chara setting out to right their past wrongs with their best friend; a reincarnation that, for the best interests of the whole world, should not remember their past life and who they once were, Otherwise that’s what initiates a genocide route.
@@veggiedragon1000 Even blatantly direct concepts have become 'theories' in Undertale spaces if there is no text overtly stating so. Pretty standard uncontroversial reads in 2015 have become unknowns. I blame the literalist trend that insists everything has to be read literally and in-universe. Nobody gives any importance to Undertale's metaphors, or themes in online discussion anymore
Sans having 1 means a lot, there is 1 monster left to kill, he does the absolute minimum of something (you cant have 0 of something), he has 1 chance to stop you.
@nicholasaugello2534 actually flowey doesnt count because he doesnt have a soul meaning he is neither human nor monster so sans is the second last one meaning after you beat him there is only 1 left to kill
One other thing I haven't seen anyone in this comments section talk about, which is a shame cause it's so interesting, is how Chara and Asriel's respective life spans and views on mortality play into this. Chara and Asriel are so different on a biological level because, as is established, boss monsters don't die of age unless they have children. Asriel is functionally immortal, so it makes sense that he's scared of the end- It's not something that will happen to him if he makes the choice not to bear children. It's not something he has to accept unless he's under very specific circumstances. Chara, however, is human. Mortal. Mortal and most likely aware of the fact that death will eventually come for them. They see their mortality and thus take comfort in the end, in finality, in something that can be attained in a limited amount of time. Asriel dreads the end because it's unnatural to him, whereas Chara dreads the idea of not having enough time to reach it.
@@Snt1_ usually you fight her on love 10 but if you grind for only high exp encounters you can be love 11 and i assume also love 9 if you went out of your way to get less exp
It's kind of ironic that Sans and Chara are opposites but they're also very similar. Chara seems to be someone who even likes to make puns like Sans (If you consider narrachara of course) Sans and Chara both have siblings who they care about (and also very kind brothers who ironically became friends) and the two both kind of manipulate them in different ways, Chara manipulates Asriel emotionally and convince him to do your will to bring freedom to the monsters and defeat the humans, Sans has a different measure he kind of hides certain things and spares his brother from pain as shown in King Papyrus's ending that all his friends were dead (and also saves Toriel from pain when he doesn't tell Toriel that Frisk killed Papyrus) and the two of them ironically also have this approach with Frisk in manipulation, Chara in neutral or pacifist doesn't manipulate much but in the genocide route you can see that Chara kind of guides you while you also guide them talking about the number of deaths and if you try to go against Undyne without finishing the death count Chara will say that it is missing and that you must kill some more (and complain that Snowdrake is alive), and strongly recommends that you end this world and that you both go to others and if you refuse, Chara makes a deal with ulterior motives and deceives you into thinking that you were free from the consequences. Sans he manipulates you much more discreetly or sometimes directly , but he takes a similar approach to Chara with Asriel, he manipulates you emotionally or mocks your choices with direct answers so that you repent and give in to his will which is to reset and take a better route. The two are different but so similar at the same time looking like Papyrus and Asriel, Sans is basically the monster version of Chara but they opposite. (Undyne is basically what Chara should be, the version of Chara who loves her kind and is even willing to fight for two races, Chara simply prioritized the monsters and apparently didn't want to make peace with the humans, Even though they are similar in that they are determined and strong, they are very different in emotions and that Undyne is someone very truthful who does not deceive others).
So maybe Sans is Chara but without the determination. They both are depressed(or implied to be), both are pranksters, have small connection with smiles, have brothers that they care a lot, and know about stats. But while Chara have a strong will and want to change things for the better, for the people they love, Sans is apathetic and gave up on changing things, as it will be all for nothing.
@@arthurdias6860 Sans is kind of ironically someone who works hard in certain things, like his brother's joy where he has several jobs and I think he bought the house and helped assemble Papyrus' car bed, he's also someone who takes promises very seriously and does his best not to stop you when you do something wrong (Sans practically gave up on the surface when he accepted Toriel's promise) and finally his greatest feat of willpower is to fight you and do everything to stop you. Kind of everyone is almost a contradiction of what they are expected to be and there are many things (like Asgore seems like a bad guy but he's actually good)
@@F3lipe-u8x great point actually. Maybe Sans is the type that while he doesn’t do much to change things he does his best to make things better as he can? Like, it will not stop the problem but will make things a little bit better
@@dignatius4444 I mean, that is still him working at different places. He also has a job a MTT resort. And his (probably illegal) hot dog stand. Then there is the whole scientific, anomaly stuff he has going on. And him basically keeping an eye on u because of that, his promise, etc. Sans is a very paradoxical (in a very interesting and great sense) in a lot of ways. Like him being lazy, but also not (at least in certain things). And etc.
I personally love what this reveals about Chara. We know that Chara *HATES* humans, and that the reason why they ran to Mt. Ebott "wasn't a happy reason". When they fused with Asriel, they wanted to kill all of these humans, and I don't think that they wanted to just stop at 6 so that they can break the barrier. With all this plus the new info from the letter, we can pretty safely assume that Chara got hurt by humans, at the very least mentally abused by them. Possibly physically too. And now we know that they want to become invincible, they want to make sure nobody can ever hurt them anymore, because the humans' treatment of Chara traumatized them. They want to be able to fly above it all. They want to be the most powerful so that, if humans ever try anything again, they won't be able to do anything to them anymore. They won't be able to hurt them anymore.
And we twist that desire into something many times more monstrous in the No Mercy Route, unlike in the other routes, where Chara seems to be the cheery narrator who has a love of poetry.
@@jacksonvoet8312 I mean I still feel like this is a part of Chara. They were lost and confused after they were revived within Frisk, and so they saw us as a guide. We either guided them towards their love of monsterkind, or their hate of humankind. Their love of monsterkind leading to their freedom and true happiness, their hate of humankind leading monsters to near extinction and having Chara reach their goal of being invincible and untouchable. But this is isn't a healthy way to deal with their pain. I mean even ignoring all the lives that they destroyed, they think that being invincible makes it like their pain can't reach them anymore. And considering that gaining LOVE makes the one who gains it distance themselves, maybe they truly don't feel that main anymore, but also ignoring that pain is not good for them. It isn't easy, but they would need to confront it in order to properly heal from their trauma.
@@Oceane1803 Yeah, it’s a sad story that only gets resolution in Pacifism, where they get to put the plan to rest. Maybe we can do better for Kris… or maybe we can do our worst, and make our choices matter. Either way, it’s a good game.
@@jacksonvoet8312 I believe that Chara and Kris are one and the same. Just alternate universe versions of each other, just like the other Undertale characters that are in Deltarune. But we'll see. And yeah of course it's a good game.
@@Oceane1803 I think that Kris may just be a different kid, and Chara may be dorm-mates with Asriel. I do think that Kris is very much an analog of Chara though.
Chara is very interesting to me. Like Chara’s fear of the ones they care about being hurt, and the context of that want for power being twisted by the geno run makes it so much more unsettling Edit: as in: twisted by US gang. WE did the geno run . We do know this right? it's important to me that we know this, what with them deadass calling us a pervertedly sentimental freak if we do geno again. Like they are stuck as our assistant and think we have some greater purpose the first time but we did the geno run. if we were never in control they wouldn't let us do it again. can we please stop damning this suicidal 10 year old for having the bad vibes of a suicidal 10 year old?
It humanizes the character to be honest. With that said, chara, and ultimately the archetype they represent doesn’t really love or care about anybody, not even themselves. Of course this doesn’t take nuance or depth away from the character as it’s clearly stated they were driven to this point for a reason. I just think it’s important the fandom doesn’t forget how awful chara truly is. They take glee in going out of their way to inflict harm on innocence. The abused becomes the abuser; a tale as old as time.
@@TheSwordsman100 Chara’s narration of the game does not equate to morality. If you feel like it, you can explain your interpretation of the character. I’d like to know where you’re coming from.
@@Musical_parks You said that Chara does not care about anyone, not even her/themselves. That is blatantly untrue going by the whole of the narration, which shows she/they did care about their adopted monster family. The matter of morality is a separate discussion which I will admit is impacted by the player's actions. As for my interpretation of the character, as the generally agreed on idea that Chara is the narrator in all routes not just Genocide and supplies the final memory needed to SAVE Asriel as my foundation, It is my belief that Chara came to Mount Ebott to commit suicide after the abuse they had suffered, only to unexpectedly find a loving family in the Dreemurs. While it took some time for Toriel to get Chara to try to stop harming herself/themself, Chara eventually did stop, taking up gardening, (narration dialogue and worn dagger) knitting (for King Dad guy shirt) and Toriel's speech patterns.(dialogue in general) However, a combination of events, being told constantly how they are the hope of monster kind, (Gerson, the Game Over memory presumably takes place instead on their deathbed) accidentally poisoning Asgore, (laughing away the pain is common thing in the underground not only does Snowy's father does it, Undyne does it as well who Chara admires, furthermore Chara will do this again to Snowy's mother and it's made clear its not a maniacal or evil laugh but a sad one) overhearing/finding out about Toriel's plan to free monsterkind, (due to it being so similar to Chara and Asirel's plan) reawoke Chara's self hatred and made her/them desperate enough to live up to reputation and redeem herself/themself for causing Asgore so much pain. (having looked it up, the way Chara chose to go out is one of the most painful ways to die) Here with Asriel Chara tries to gather the souls needed but it is stopped by Asriel. They both die, etc. etc. Once Chara awakens attached to Frisk as Chara herself/themself states are confused why they are suddenly around again and learns from the Anomaly aka the player, while helping out with their knowledge of the Underground. I'm going to stop it there since I can't really cover all the narration dialogue in a comment (heck thats why there are videos and a blog for it) and this already long. However, I will do want to point out one final thing, Chara's starting LV is 1.
I love how this both gives us more lore on chara and also feeds into the reasoning for flowey’s mindset. As flowey, Asriel reached his greatest fear. The end of everything with nothing left. He reached 99
So we always knew toby is taking inspiration from touhou. you know, the dreemurs wearing a similar robe to sariel(who very obviously is also lending her name)/ran, asriels attacks resembling marisas, musical similarities (especially in the omega flowey fight)..... so now we know chara is based on cirno. this is canon now, definetly.
this fucking letter is going to be the death of me i stg. i feel like we’ve just blown the lid off a latent underlore goldmine after 9 years of talking about it
2:22 -- Asriel's total rejection of this idea comes about in his boss fight. His stats are infinite. He has rejected the hypothesis that there is a biggest number, or that anything has to end. That there's a limit to the memories they can make, or their time together. Ultimately, Chara was right, but only for themself. Asriel is proof that it can never truly end (as are we, whether we go back or forward. Time doesn't just stop, after all). 2:38 -- Reminder: Chara used coercive and abusive control tactics against Asriel to render him emotionally unable to refuse, including loyalty tests and intentionally gaslighting Asriel about his emotions being wrong with the insistence that deferral to Chara's superior emotional responses is correct. 5:00 -- oh, you got to it. Cool. 7:30 -- Yes, opposites. That makes sense. 7:45 -- Toby's been using stats for storytelling from the very beginning. Asgore's stats not being reflective of his battle stats is an indication of his mental state. The stats we see in game seldom line up with the game data, because a monster's ostensible stats don't actually reflect, necessarily, the mental state they have at the moment and your stats are also modified by your determination at points. This is why you don't die in one hit to Asriel and why Asgore doesn't obliterate you through your measly 15 DF in Pacifist with his 80 AT. A monster's stats change as you do damage to them too, even though that's not reflected in the CHECK menu, because their willingness to fight drops. This is why the final attack on Toriel in an otherwise pacifist run does so much damage. She's hit the point in her speech where she has decided that she wants to stop fighting, but she hasn't actually stopped yet. This drops her DF dramatically, causing the next hit to be unexpectedly fatal for both her and you. 10:00 -- Those stats are the same because they represent the height of Determination. They're the highest 'bounded' power value that the stats system can process. Within the context of what a monster can achieve with Determination alone, Undyne is the pinnacle. She's able to stand up to a LV10 human, and pull her body back together many times, until she's sure that her actions have fulfilled her purpose. Even though she can't beat you, that fulfillment is what allows her to die peacefully. It's likely that if she truly believed that no one would be able to stop you but her, she would have fought even harder, as is the nature of Determination, but regardless, her showing is impressive. 10:20 -- ...Both inspired by Asgore to fight for the future of monsterkind is a stretch, but you are right, they are fueled by the same thing. The difference is, Undyne, when she turns Undying, casts aside her hatred for humanity and uses that as her strength. Undyne turns from an unstoppable force into an immovable object by forsaking the desire to see humanity's end and standing against the end of humanity and monsterkind. "Whatever you are" comes from her mouth because she understands that Chara does not represent the concept of a normal human anymore, and your choices go beyond even those of the surface dwellers on impact to the world. Undyne is a mote in the eye of a god, a momentary speedbump on Chara's road to ultimate power, but any speedbump worthy of noting would have to thematically stand for the rejection of something Chara stood for. Undyne's numbers are as high as they can get. Undyne's numbers are 99, 99. Undyne is not invincible. Undyne cannot stop you from hurting anyone. Chara therefore adds to their own previous assertion here. The only one who's numbers being high enough matters for is them. Even if someone else's numbers are as high as they go, they are not invincible. They cannot stop anyone from being hurt, not even themself. IF anything, Undyne's relation to the numbers in question makes Chara seem drastically more sinister in the way they talk about those numbers. Food for thought. Thanks again, for your quality analysis.
Side note: 6 is an upside down 9, and represents the inversion of the concept of a highest bound. 6 is associated with Gaster, and could therefore represent the negative version of bounded infinity that 9 normally represents in relation to Chara. Gaster is notable for having 666 AT, 666 DF and 666666 HP -- all of which are higher bound upsidedown values of higher numbers of 9s than Chara can achieve within the boundaries of the game, indicating that Gaster is not only inverted from the normal bounding of the game but inherently superior to it, by being, let's just call it what it is, 'no longer stuck' inside the boundaries of the standard reading of game data. Extra food for thought.
Great points! To go into detail a bit more about Chara and Undyne being motivated by Asgore, I think it's relatively obvious how Undyne is motivated by him, since she was trained by him and is currently the leader of his royal guard, although you can also argue that Gerson would be more of a motivation for her. They're both people she seems to have a lot of respect for so I'd say she's about equally motivated by both of them. Furthermore she described herself as basically just attacking random people in her youth because she was a pretty hot headed kid, so it seems like Asgore might have effected her a lot to go from picking fights with random people to wanting to fight for the hopes and dreams of monsterkind. Chara is the one I imagine a lot of people would see as more of a stretch, but I actually think there's pretty solid evidence for Chara having a strong connection to Asgore. I think the biggest thing is the Game Over dialogue which seems to be Chara's memories of Asgore talking to Chara on their deathbed. (It's similar to what Asgore says in Tape 5 in the true lab) The song that plays in the Game Over screen is also called Determination, which could refer to these memories of Asgore being the main source of their determination, but it could also just be referring to how determination is used to come back to life. However, after fighting Toriel if you go back to bed, you seem to have a dream about Asgore telling Chara to stay determined. The fact these memories of Asgore seem to come up so frequently makes me feel that these memories must be important to Chara. If they felt Asgore put this massive responsibility on them, to be the future of humans and monsters, it also helps explain why they would go to such extremes to destroy the barrier. Chara definitely isn't completely innocent, but if the only thing they cared about was power they could have killed Asriel and taken his soul instead of sacrificing themself. That doesn't justify what they did, but they at the very least did seem to care about Asriel and the rest of monsterkind in their own way which I just find interesting. Chara is described by Asriel to have had a hatred for humanity, so my interpretation of the genocide route is that after being "betrayed" by Asriel, they begin to develop a hatred for everyone, so at that point it's easy for the player to nudge them in that direction. It's basically the reverse of what happens with Undyne, she decides that along with monsterkind she wants to protect humankind, and Chara decides that along with humankind, they want to wipe out monsterkind. At the end of pacifist the barrier is destroyed by Asriel as originally planned, and at the end of the genocide route they claim vengeance on the world that wronged them from beyond the grave. Both of these endings are about Chara achieving closure. Dang I got to remember that one for a future video at some point.
@@Grim-c8n You are 100% right about Undyne, Undyne wasn't what I was talking about here, for sure. She was clearly motivated by monsterkind's dream of freedom and Asgore's warmth. I also don't disagree that Chara clearly had some form of strong connection to Asgore. When you game over, you hear what is assumedly Asgore talking to Chara on their deathbed, for sure, though I don't think the memory of Asgore is motivating Chara's determination (if anything it's a memory of being dead that you're intermingling with chara for, IMO). Also: nothing in anything written in the game actually indicates that a human can take a Monster SOUL until Alphys tells you you will need to to cross the barrier, so it's debatable if Chara thought that taking a monster SOUL would be possible or not. Additionally, ensuring Asriel's loyalty isn't necessarily caring about him, though I don't doubt that they thought he would benefit from their plan (along with the rest of monsterkind). There's some indications that Chara expected to be conscious after death, considering that Chara was the one who acted first upon their SOUL fusion. There's also the fact that Chara seems to be a control freak in general, further reinforced by their words in this letter -- As I wrote to someone else before -- "The only logical conclusion for why their numbers being high would mean no one can hurt anyone is that they will stop them from doing so. We've already seen Chara's preferred method (even while alive) of stopping people from hurting them. That's kill them. At the very best, that statement is a declaration that anyone who does not submit to their authority will die At worst: It's a veiled hint that they wanted the universe empty of all creatures who could conceivably harm anyone else. The emphasis here is on the word "Can". Can is an explicit statement of possessing the power to. Can is the explicit province of Determination, in Undertale. Asgore, for instance, destroying the Mercy button. Chara's statements in the letter seem nice on the face of them, but they explicitly say: "Anyone who will not submit to my authority will be powerless to stop me forcing them to do what I want them to." Or at worst: "Anyone who would hurt anyone else will simply die." Furthermore 'seems nice on the surface with sinister beneath' is a consistent motif of Chara's dialogue." These do not, to me, seem like the sentiments of a person who would under any circumstances be willing to give up their agency to another to achieve their goals. I don't think it's viable to state that Chara did not, in some capacity, expect to be in control when they 'gave' their SOUL to Asriel. In fact, they believed they would be able to force him to go along with them, even when they explicitly knew (through SOUL contact, no less) that he would never be okay with it and almost certainly, even if he could be forced, that he would never be 'okay' again after it. Asriel resisting seems to have been out of the question for them, which, again, shouldn't have been the case if they thought Asriel would be in control. I DO agree that the genocide route reflects them being done with everything in the world now that everything has (to their senses) betrayed them. Whether we have any strong effect on that is up for debate, but it's clear we are, at the very least, in control until/unless we give it to them (which can only happen by playing into murder, which does say something, at the very least). I also don't necessarily agree that all of the endings are about giving Chara closure, especially not pacifist. Pacifist seems like a rejection of Chara's ideals of control with the hopeful end that you let everything go (7 (Us), 8, 9 (Chara). - where we assume what would have been their place as Asriel's best friend and sibling and the adoptive child of Asgore and Toriel) where as Genocide seems like an inversion of that, with the desire for control winning out over everything (-9 (Chara), -8, -7 (Us). Where Chara's hatred cooks and is allowed to destroy us in the end - literally, we get cooked. Clever pun, bone man. Clever pun). Again, food for thought.
I would add that i dont really think Chara cared about monsterkind being free as a goal necessairly when alive. Their insistence towards war leads me to believe that humanity destruction through Asriel was their main goal, and that monsterkind being free being a afterthought to have Asriel agree to follow through it. Since, after all, Toriel did say that killing humans was not necessary for monsters to be free, diplomacy was always an option. Yet Chara chose war, because they hated humanity for one reason or another. When monsters "failed" through Asriel, Chara then saw their inherent kindness as useless in that regard and discarded them in genocide.
Unfortunate that "Power of NEO" is track number 99 in the UNDERTALE soundtrack, not "Battle Against a True Hero"! At least the latter still has part of the former in it though.
There are demos for chapter 0 and 10, meaning a chapter 9 or chapters after 11 may happen in deltarunes future. He did say it would take 999 years to make the game or something like that. :)
Another interesting point with sans and chara is that sans gives absolutely no effort whatsoever, be it teleporting instead of walking and yk just doing nothing. In other words the number 1, the absolute minimum amount of effort. compared to chara who is so determined to achieve their goal that they will do the absolute maximum and 9 is the absolute maximum number in undertale. Toby showed us the comparison through their behaviour as characters.
That makes sense, since Sans does the bare minimum to do anything, but Chara straight up manipulated their best friends with emotional abuse methods just to free monsters and defeat humans. Also they basically do the opposite in genocide: Sans goes out of his way to stop us, but Chara does nothing. Then they reverse roles again, and Sans does nothing to stop us (literally) while Chara literally erases the whole world.
I feel like an opposite to Chara would actually do this instead: "You know? I kind of like it here and there. You want to know why my heart is blue and my mane is red? It symbolizes closeness. When something looks blue far away nor matter how red it is in person: It can't get any closer. Nothing can subtract your company anymore. Nothing can subtract your union anymore. But do you ever wonder if it makes you that much more anonymous? That is why I don't worry about something as silly as 'canon'. Everything is a miracle if you wait long enough. But I have never been a stickler for waiting. I just always hope that I can add just 1 more thing to the list of good between me and my environment."
I always headcanoned that Undyne can be a lot like Chara in many ways, so be it me grasping at straws, or seeing an actually neat and intentional pattern, I categorically agree to what you said in this vid
11:15 OH OH i think thats what might happen. fakeout-ending at 8, with the statement "our choices dont matter" being true until the end of chapter 8. And then we get a chapter 9 around chara, and all our choices suddenly DO matter in that chapter.
I will look forward to this. Surely this mindset and the clue's you have found will lead to most interesting results. You got this! And stay determined...
These new aspects of their personality were already my headcannon when it came to what I thought Chara was like, so seeing them directly addressed feels so cool!
Did you know that if you play the undertale genocide route 9 times and accumulate 999:99 play time on each playthrough, a secret asgore boss fight will unlock? It's true my uncle lived in Toby Fox's basement 0_0
similarly, in genocide, the numbers are the highest, but the outcomes are the lowest. In the pacifist, the numbers are the lowest, they always stay low. They're just used in all the right ways.
Holy shit we found someone who actually hates sans bois. Maybe flowey the flower decided to try using the outernet after the pacifist ending a bit more to see if it was interesting and he ended up here 😂
I've always loved how numbers themselves carry meaning within Undertale, even if we don't quite know what yet. Specifically, 1, 6, 8, and 9. I've tried looking to see if Fun Events could also be correlated to this, but I couldn't come to any conclusions outside of the obvious Gaster Door/Long Hallway. Maybe Goner Clam Girl?
Yeah my gang, sans is the opps to our chara, we dont play around with the sanses dawg, we charas united with undynes against the sanses long time ago my best friend
@@TheSkyGuy77 And Chara is a demon… at least the one we meet… 6 and 9 mirror one another… Though we still know so little about Gaster to really form tight connections yet…
Deltarune has been marketed as a ‘parallel story’ to Undertale. 9999 being an important number in Undertale, and Gaster being closely associated with 6666 as well as being undoubtedly tied to Deltarune. It’s interesting to think about
I'm not surpised Chara's and Undyne's stats connect in this way considering Chara's narration in her fights. (Chara seems to be quite the fan of Undyne) However, I do want to thank you for putting emphsis on the "Nothing can hurt you anymore" and Nothing can hurt anyone anymore." As it makes certain lines of Chara's narration from Neutral and Pacfist hit that much harder.
Do you know what is also quite interesting, when you get to the end of the true pacifist route at the end of this all, rolling the credits and exit the game and get back on? Flowey appears, he tells you to allow everyone to live happily in their life, to not reset and change anything at all. To keep your power a secret basically to never be known. And what do we see at the start main menu screen? LV1. Man this is not a true pacifist vs. genocide route. This is sans vs. CHARA route. Even better the main last bosses of the routes are people who basically are the complete opposite of the ideals of them. ASRIEL GOD OF HYPER DEATH and sans.
Sans and Chara aren't opposites, they're the same. Sans puts on a facade of not caring and not putting effort into anything, but if he didn't care he wouldn't judge you, and he wouldn't stand in your way on a Genocide route. Sans and Chara have the same motivation; to protect those that are closest to them. They are even similar in regards to when they take action, with both of them waiting until the last possible moment to do anything to you when you give them a reason to. If Chara likes 9 because it's the highest number, Sans's response is a simple "But what if I just keep adding 1?" Chara's opposite is actually Pacifist Frisk. Chara is obsessed with power because of a determination to protect those they care about. Chara is corrupted by good intentions. Pacifist Frisk doesn't care about power, and just wants to befriend everyone they meet. If Chara is an unstoppable force, Pacifist Frisk is an immovable object. Pacifist Frisk never backs down, never surrenders, and never hurts another person. If you were to ask Pacifist Frisk what their favorite number is, they'd probably respond that they can't pick a favorite because it might make the other numbers feel bad. Pacifist Frisk brings others together through mutual connection and keeps them safe through that sense of unity. The two could never get along. Pacifist Frisk's tendency to just dodge out of the way of attacks and hugging everything in sight would likely be completely nauseating to Chara, and they would insist that there are some threats out there you can't just befriend and that sometimes violence is the only way to deal with them. When that time comes, you want to be as unbeatable as possible. This is likely why Chara is so much more powerful than Genocide Frisk as well. Genocide Frisk isn't truly obsessed with power, they only care about getting the ending. Genocide Frisk's motivation is to see everything there is to see, a morbid scientific curiosity to know the outcome of every action. The same dark path Flowey went down before them. Chara is not the same. Chara's obsession with power isn't a desire to hurt others, but to protect everything they hold dear. Chara is the final obstacle, a wall of damage too high to endure with any amount of defense. If Sans is the judge, Chara is the executioner.
This is unrelated to the video mostly, but I came to this 'theory' while watching So, we know the Humans sealed the monsters underground with a magic spell. I'm wondering, since it seems like humans don't have magic, the humans that casted this spell, had absorbed boss monster souls that allowed them to perform this magic? The only supporting "evidence" have of this, is that for a human to pass through the barrier, they require a monster soul. Which I feel like could be Toby implying this idea. If anyone actually see's this I'd like to hear your thoughts
That's interesting! We really don't know what the relationship between humans and magic is in undertale Maybe its a lost tradition for humans or even just had some monsters on their side. Humans being able to use magic through monster souls would only work if they found a way to make a monster soul last longer after death. Alphys managed to do this through the DT experiments, so maybe humans had another way to do it since they're the source of determination? Who knows,it's an interesting idea though
@thirdwheel9938 Boss monster souls can persist after death, as we see with Toriel and Asgore, and Alphys implies we can use or absorb the soul in some way, just food for thought
What I'd like to note, is that Asriel is The Absolute God of Hyperdeath, and absolute means quite literally: pure, complete, perfect, unlimited, endless... which clicks even better with the idea of Asriel never letting things come to an end.
Damn, the two bosses of a possible route in a game being one that mimicks your main power and desire for more, and a polar opposite of you, giving up and having zero power? Thats a badass boss concept writing right there🔥✍️
...This is also interesting in context of Deltarune, because there? _Noelle_ is the one associated with "getting stronger" and being an "angel". 09:02 read somewhere very convincing post about Chara looking up to Undyne, because of the amount of times the flavor text calls her heroic or heroine, even in No Mercy!
The notion of certain numbers holding thematic purpose is in a lot of media but I can't help but link Toby's use of this to how Homestuck did it, given the web comic's reoccurring numbers of 413 and 11 11 11 (and probably more too)
And its even more interesting that Gaster had all 6's on all his stats in the datamined files...Meaning the whole 6 thing isnt just a way to say "He's some kind of demonic entity or sum" it's a way to show how he is the opposite of Chara. Chara wants to have infinite power, to have everything...Now, Gaster? He's trapped in an endless abyss. He has literally nothing but himself, his mind...and his knowledge. Maybe, just maybe... he's trying to reach back, to invert this six into a nine.
Theory: during gaster experiments, he somehow got negative determination, causing him to be shattered across time and space and having all his stats be 66666
Perhaps Deltarune will have 9 chapters, but 2 of them will be secret unless you complete the "weird route," which seems to align perfectly with our inner CHARActer manipulating the game for evil purposes. Nope. Nope. Nope. I couldn't finish a merciless run in "Undertale" from the squick (but mostly boredom). Forcing poor Noelle to do bad things for bonus content is not on my to do list, if it's real.
I feel the need to point out how Asriel's God of Hyperdeath stats are just 8's on their sides, a number just less than 9, a reminder that he doesn't want things to end.
I always had the idea that stats had to do with his mood more than his personality (mainly because talking to monsters or using certain items can change it) For example Toriel and Asgore both being "boss" monsters (implying that they are very strong) but Toriel doesn't really want to hurt you And Asgore, Asgore is known for being a tank, almost unstoppable according to all of the underground, But somehow, while we fight him (and he forces himself to fight because he wants to free his kingdom) his stats aren't really that big of a deal, Because it is clear that he is quite fed up with killing children xd When I saw Sans I thought "ah Sans, as lazy as ever, doesn't even have the desire to kill me" This new information changed my perspective a little but i dont know, Maybe Toby will decide tomorrow to say that all of Undertale is a dream of Jerry keep doing teories man this is amazing you should look the stats in deltarune
According to this analysis, Chara and Undyne's relationship to the number 9 gets the Devil May Cry brain going. A part of DMC3's story is that Dante and Vergil both seek to gain power, but through different means and different, yet mirrored, reasons. Dante wants to gain power in order to save people from the forces of Hell, and does so by embracing both sides of himself. Or, in Undertale terms, but gaining Determination. Meanwhile, Vergil seemingly only seeks to selfishly better himself by seeking deeper into into his demonic heritage. Trying to prove himself to be the strongest being in existence simply for the sake of his own ego. At least, thats the surface level storytelling. But there is a single line if dialogue for him that Capcom goes out of their way to highlight in Marvel vs Capcom 3 that I think belays his true intentions. "Without might, you cannot protect anything." Combine this with his philosophical ramblinfs in the manga and V, and it becomes clear that Vergil is someone who is motivated by deep childhood scars. While Dante wishes to protect everyone out of a sense of duty, Vergil wishes to protect his love ones because he sees himself as a failure for being unable to in the past. Going back to Undertale, I wonder if this letter about Chara and the way stats are used for storytelling points to DMC3 as another potential inspiration for Toby. Think about it. Undyne clearly shares Dante's motivations 1:1, is similarly obsessed with looking cool and stylish outside of Genocide, and you could even equate her Undying form as a parallel to Dante's Devil Trigger. Her expending a resource she shouldn't normally have access to in order to become stronger for the sake of others. Chara, similarly to Vergil, has a storyline plagued by people who focus on the Genocide route and see a thirst for power simply to become powerful. Forgetting that this initial thirst came from wanting to bust open the underground. One way or another. So when Jaru asks "why show us this?" I think the answer might be the same as to why Capcom felt the need to highlight Vergil's quote I mentioned before. A way to remind us who the real Chara is. Not the all consuming demon they claim to be, but rather just a scared child willing to do truly heinous things for the sake of protecting and saving their family.
it's also likely that Asriel wrote this AFTER the pacifist route happened by the lines "So I don't like to keep count of the flowers we pick, or the time that they laugh or how many scary faces they make..." IT'S LITTERALLY FLOWEY HE IS DESCRIBING HERE (I'm not sure if it is helpful but I just wanted to say it)
What if W.D. Gaster was tied to the number 6 because it's an upside down 9? Perhaps it refers to the character's ironic nature - a seemingly omniscient, omnipresent entity having no power over his own world?
i watched this video a week ago, but i just realized, megalovania is ost number 100. battle against a true hero and power of neo are 98 and 99. i don’t know if toby intentionally did that, and someone also probably already mentioned this, but still
@@andriil7635 oh thats a better perspective i though Pacifist Frisk was able to be strong enough to make it only 8 dmg considering they can warp dreams into coming to reality
ayo can you cover gaster's "666" stats? i'm not big brain enough to do what you did with the stat numbers, but surely those have to mean something right? 9 and 6 do look similar after all.
Idk about favootite color, but it is their motif Red soul, red text, red 9s, red jumpscare, etc I think it's a great choice for then since according to color psychology, red is often associated with both love and hate. Fits like a glove
Chara enthusiasts eating good tonight 🗣️📢💯💯💯 We already knew Chara's weird obsession and relation to maximization as they're (among other things) the representation typical JRPG grinding standards by the end of a genocide, and that they're generally concerned with getting the most out of something (see the "efficient" undertale clock app dialogue, chara used to fill glasses to the brim with water and asriel would pick that habit from them) 9 was already clearly charas motif (asriel's too, but to a lesser extent. He only ever used 9s as flowey as well which is of note since his persona as flowey is the result of trauma after being reborn with the power of determination but also a somewhat twisted attempt to imitate traits he saw in Chara (someone we know he held in high regard) things like the scary faces and even the default smiley face being chara's trademark originally. So yeah I'm pretty sure he also borrowed the 9 motif from them too) 2 out of the 3 times the game kills somebody without your input during a no mercy route, a bunch of nines show up, that's Chara baby! That's "Now you have reached. The absolute" chara we're talking about. I'm just glad we finally have some actual confirmation that 9 is their number from the man himself because I always felt crazy explaining why 9 was Chara's signature number and being told I was reading way too much into things It feels so good to be right, it only took 9 years but hey! It's always nice to get more chara lore, they're such a mysterious character, sometimes it's like we don't know anything about the first fallen human
It is interesting to note as well that chara is not only associated with the number 9, but with infinite 9s, which is what they use to kill the game in genocide... 9999999... Infinite 9s. And what does sans do? 1 damage. If you know anything about infinitely big numbers (more specifically the 10-adics, iirc), you'd know that ...99999 + 1 = 0. This is because the 9+1 turns into 10, the result being 0 and carrying the 1 to the next digit, which would propagate infinitely to the left, but never reaching the end as there are infinite 9s. This means, they actively nullify each other. ...9999 + 1 = 0.
Frisk has a number too 20 Not with attack But HP 20/20 at lv 1 At level 20 (20 again) they become a powerful and suitable enough thing with their determination to literally revive a demon and you can see a Chara's symbol that they have fully corrupted frisk or took a portion of control because level 20 is not supposed to give you 99 with the statistics math Also just off topic but Chara known for being the demon The appears when you call their name But when you type frisk it literally awakens hell or your life will be hell as the game put it
One interesting about flowey is that during the neutral final battle...
Floweys level is 9999
But he still wants more to become beyond invincible...A God.
That can't be hurt.
Very good catch!
he *does* in the pacifist ending
I’m pretty sure that’s a level with the six souls, there’s not enough monsters in the underground for that level, and you get mass evacuation just by killing a few dozens
@@djmewtwo6981 It's been confirmed in-game that LV 20 is the maximum.
@@goose7618 that isn't confirmed anywhere pak
Interesting fact here: In undertale, every time you reach a now level, you get +4 maximum HP. In LV 1, you have 20HP; in LV2, you have 24; in LV3, you have 28; etc. You start with 20 HP and your LV can go up to 20. That means that at the end of the genocide route, your max HP is supposed to be 20 + 19×4, which is 96
But this doesn't happen. In undertale, _if you reach the greatest level, you skip 96._
Instead, the game insists on giving you 99HP at the end of the run, because you reached the absolute. There's nothing past it. There's no number bigger.
It's cool to see the number 9 becoming this new symbol with this new interpretation of it. I like it.
Oh wow that's actually extremely interesting. That just reminded me that in the fangame Undertale Yellow, if you reach LV 20 you actually skip 96 like in Undertale but get to 100 HP instead of 99, seems that choice aged very well since 9's are now becoming so heavily associated with Chara. Common UTY W.
Quick mathematical correction. Since you start at LV 1 and not 0, being at LV 20 would give you 96 HP and not 100 (remember that in LV 19 in Sans’s fight, you have 92 HP). That means the number is actually more than what it should be, not a limit that prevents 100 HP
@@titadogelo5090 thanks, I am a bloody idiot!! I'll properly edit it lol
I thought I was the only one who realized this! Besides, the fact your LV starts at 1 with 20 HP and finishes at 20 with 99 HP always seemed "poetic" to me. Not only that, but also, theax amount of monsters to kill in the Ruins is 20. At Hotland, it is 40, the double of 20. Legendary HEROES heal 40 HP and add 4 to your ATK. At LV 19, you have 9"2" HP and 4 defense. Chara's power if often represented by Attack, meanwhile, during Neutral and Pacifist run, wich Frisk "shines", your most important stats are DEF. Frisk deals 20 thousand dmg to the bosses at genocide, except for MTT Neo, wich he deals 40 thousand dmg. Sans, Asgore and Flowey are killed by Chara, not Frisk. Frisk represents the number "2" and "20" and it's doubles (×2), Chara represents "9", Sans represents "1", and Asriel represents the infinity.
Another thing that may relate Undyne to Chara, is thay Undyne has 20 thousand HP, while the absolute LV is 20.
Thinking this way, we can conclute that Frisk reaches his absolute with the number 20, Chara with 9, Sans never reachs his absolute, Asriel IS the absolute, and Undyne mirrors both Frisk and Chara. At geno run, Frisk and Chara control the same body, that's why it has lots of 20 and 9, and Undyne mirrors them, Chara's power and DT along with (pacofist) Frisk's kindness and altruism.
makes the fact Flowey states they've "done everything this world has to offer" even worse tbh.
without Chara he was faced with another of his fears... no more memories to make...
but hey we return ... until we don't and he dies...
OOF
Replaying the game you start to realize how important "9999" is. It's flowey's level of violence and time, it's the damage you deal to sans. It's the damage chara does to you. it's in more places than you'd expect
its not the damage you deal to sans. you deal far more
@@AlexanderLeonardi yeah not 4 9s but still 999999 etc.
@@redguydhmis no, that's chara to you, not you to sans. dont act like im the one arguing semantics here, hon
@AlexanderLeonardi you do all 9's to sans, hon
How many 9s does Sans take?
9:41 The best part is that Undyne's stats are perfectly mirrored in the Real Knife and The Locket. It's not just a good comparison. It's completely 1 to 1.
Undyne the Undying is literally in UT the Strongest Monster ever vs the future Strongest Human ever.
End well for the sans fight it's the absolute oposite, THe Weakes monster vs The Strongest Human.
No matter if you have the strongest weapon, he will dodge you
No matter if you have the strongest armor, his attacks will melt you anyways
@@Da_Feelingsjjk reference
@@bryce7289undyne: you’re right, Chara. I’m you.
By the way, in the same newsletter section where Undyne hates numbers, sans is directly likened to the number negative 9.
Toby Fox is somehow causing the number 9 to give me a brain overload. XD
9s and 6s are very important int he game. 6 because it's linked with gaster and 9 because of chara flower . And -9 being sans. And ironically a 6 is a flipped nine
@@_aWiseManWhat is -6 then
@@_aWiseManThere's a joke in there. I can *feel it*
-6? Wasn't that something a DR Geoff (Gast) dealing with the -6? 🤔
I feel like the “nothing can hurt you anymore” thing is an indicator that Chara might’ve gone through trauma before.
considering that asriel says that Chara "[didn't go down Mt. Ebott] for a happy reason", and how Chara acts and treats others in the story, i think it's safe to say that Chara definitely went through trauma before.
what kind of trauma? never really confirmed, maybe abuse from parents, maybe they're a sociopath or psychopath (genetics can increase the likelihood of the latter), but whatever it is, it caused Chara to have a deep hatred for humanity, either so they could get a scapegoat for their own personal issues or since humanity wronged them
i think it's most likely child abuse or negligent parents, considering how the topic is being explored in deltarune through susie + it just feels right
Yeah, not to mention we know why they fell wasn't a very happy reason, plus their plan to break the barrier involved, well, the ending of their own life Q-Q The 'nothing can hurt *anyone* anymore' is also heartbreaking ;-;
Your idea, plus the fact that Chara hated humanity and is associated so much with the *Genocide* Route makes me think that maybe they are the survivor of a (human-on-human) genocide themselves?
@@EnoEso well, I'm gonna believe they went through neglect because who tf lets their kid climb some mountain in which no one returns without a care in the world? (haha care-uhh, chara i just realised lol)
@@EnoEso THIS!
This completely supports my theory that the worn dagger is the real knife. It is because in a pacifist or neutral run, you are controlling frisk. Frisk’s perspective of the dagger and locket are just that they are a little stronger tools that could be useful. In a no mercy route however, as you level up you awaken chara with your power. And towards the end you are controlling chara. Who sees the dagger and locket as the absolute pinnacle of power they could have. Not just some stronger tools.
I'm surprised you say it is a theory. They are in the same places in both routes, I always just thought it was canon that the change in stats was merely a change in perspective.
My theory is that frisk is just a reincarnation of chara setting out to right their past wrongs with their best friend; a reincarnation that, for the best interests of the whole world, should not remember their past life and who they once were, Otherwise that’s what initiates a genocide route.
@@veggiedragon1000 Even blatantly direct concepts have become 'theories' in Undertale spaces if there is no text overtly stating so. Pretty standard uncontroversial reads in 2015 have become unknowns. I blame the literalist trend that insists everything has to be read literally and in-universe.
Nobody gives any importance to Undertale's metaphors, or themes in online discussion anymore
@@bummedmachinist7483 :(
@@veggiedragon1000 I feel this frowny face in my soul
Sans having 1 means a lot, there is 1 monster left to kill, he does the absolute minimum of something (you cant have 0 of something), he has 1 chance to stop you.
1 atk 1 def
Frisk with 0 attack and 0 defense
The weakest monster.
Technically Sans is 3rd monster remaining by the time you meet him again at the judgment hall Asgore dies second and Flowey go after sans died
@nicholasaugello2534 actually flowey doesnt count because he doesnt have a soul meaning he is neither human nor monster so sans is the second last one meaning after you beat him there is only 1 left to kill
One other thing I haven't seen anyone in this comments section talk about, which is a shame cause it's so interesting, is how Chara and Asriel's respective life spans and views on mortality play into this. Chara and Asriel are so different on a biological level because, as is established, boss monsters don't die of age unless they have children.
Asriel is functionally immortal, so it makes sense that he's scared of the end- It's not something that will happen to him if he makes the choice not to bear children. It's not something he has to accept unless he's under very specific circumstances.
Chara, however, is human. Mortal. Mortal and most likely aware of the fact that death will eventually come for them. They see their mortality and thus take comfort in the end, in finality, in something that can be attained in a limited amount of time.
Asriel dreads the end because it's unnatural to him, whereas Chara dreads the idea of not having enough time to reach it.
just though i'd point out that sans is pretty much the only fight in the game that you have to fight on a specific LOVE, 19, 1 - 9
... and it all ends there.
nothing.
And once you complete the fight you have 99 hp
And the true pacifist exclusives on LV 1
What about Undying?
@@Snt1_ usually you fight her on love 10 but if you grind for only high exp encounters you can be love 11 and i assume also love 9 if you went out of your way to get less exp
It's kind of ironic that Sans and Chara are opposites but they're also very similar.
Chara seems to be someone who even likes to make puns like Sans (If you consider narrachara of course)
Sans and Chara both have siblings who they care about (and also very kind brothers who ironically became friends) and the two both kind of manipulate them in different ways, Chara manipulates Asriel emotionally and convince him to do your will to bring freedom to the monsters and defeat the humans, Sans has a different measure he kind of hides certain things and spares his brother from pain as shown in King Papyrus's ending that all his friends were dead (and also saves Toriel from pain when he doesn't tell Toriel that Frisk killed Papyrus) and the two of them ironically also have this approach with Frisk in manipulation, Chara in neutral or pacifist doesn't manipulate much but in the genocide route you can see that Chara kind of guides you while you also guide them talking about the number of deaths and if you try to go against Undyne without finishing the death count Chara will say that it is missing and that you must kill some more (and complain that Snowdrake is alive), and strongly recommends that you end this world and that you both go to others and if you refuse, Chara makes a deal with ulterior motives and deceives you into thinking that you were free from the consequences.
Sans he manipulates you much more discreetly or sometimes directly , but he takes a similar approach to Chara with Asriel, he manipulates you emotionally or mocks your choices with direct answers so that you repent and give in to his will which is to reset and take a better route.
The two are different but so similar at the same time looking like Papyrus and Asriel, Sans is basically the monster version of Chara but they opposite.
(Undyne is basically what Chara should be, the version of Chara who loves her kind and is even willing to fight for two races, Chara simply prioritized the monsters and apparently didn't want to make peace with the humans, Even though they are similar in that they are determined and strong, they are very different in emotions and that Undyne is someone very truthful who does not deceive others).
So maybe Sans is Chara but without the determination. They both are depressed(or implied to be), both are pranksters, have small connection with smiles, have brothers that they care a lot, and know about stats. But while Chara have a strong will and want to change things for the better, for the people they love, Sans is apathetic and gave up on changing things, as it will be all for nothing.
@@arthurdias6860 Sans is kind of ironically someone who works hard in certain things, like his brother's joy where he has several jobs and I think he bought the house and helped assemble Papyrus' car bed, he's also someone who takes promises very seriously and does his best not to stop you when you do something wrong (Sans practically gave up on the surface when he accepted Toriel's promise) and finally his greatest feat of willpower is to fight you and do everything to stop you.
Kind of everyone is almost a contradiction of what they are expected to be and there are many things (like Asgore seems like a bad guy but he's actually good)
@@F3lipe-u8x i mean working in several jobs might not be him working hard, since he just made a sentry station that's in 3 places at once lol
@@F3lipe-u8x great point actually. Maybe Sans is the type that while he doesn’t do much to change things he does his best to make things better as he can? Like, it will not stop the problem but will make things a little bit better
@@dignatius4444 I mean, that is still him working at different places.
He also has a job a MTT resort.
And his (probably illegal) hot dog stand.
Then there is the whole scientific, anomaly stuff he has going on.
And him basically keeping an eye on u because of that, his promise, etc.
Sans is a very paradoxical (in a very interesting and great sense) in a lot of ways.
Like him being lazy, but also not (at least in certain things).
And etc.
Cirno from Touhou and the number 9.
What if Toby Fox simply likes the idiot fairy?
⑨
I'll have 2 number 9s, a number 9 large...
Well, they don't call her the strongest for nothing...
No.
…
‘Imagines Chara complying as Cirno’
Aw dang it this is possible now!
Hey wait…
‘Imagines Cirno dressed as Chara.’ Ok now that’s kinda funny.
I personally love what this reveals about Chara. We know that Chara *HATES* humans, and that the reason why they ran to Mt. Ebott "wasn't a happy reason".
When they fused with Asriel, they wanted to kill all of these humans, and I don't think that they wanted to just stop at 6 so that they can break the barrier.
With all this plus the new info from the letter, we can pretty safely assume that Chara got hurt by humans, at the very least mentally abused by them. Possibly physically too.
And now we know that they want to become invincible, they want to make sure nobody can ever hurt them anymore, because the humans' treatment of Chara traumatized them.
They want to be able to fly above it all. They want to be the most powerful so that, if humans ever try anything again, they won't be able to do anything to them anymore. They won't be able to hurt them anymore.
And we twist that desire into something many times more monstrous in the No Mercy Route, unlike in the other routes, where Chara seems to be the cheery narrator who has a love of poetry.
@@jacksonvoet8312 I mean I still feel like this is a part of Chara. They were lost and confused after they were revived within Frisk, and so they saw us as a guide. We either guided them towards their love of monsterkind, or their hate of humankind.
Their love of monsterkind leading to their freedom and true happiness, their hate of humankind leading monsters to near extinction and having Chara reach their goal of being invincible and untouchable.
But this is isn't a healthy way to deal with their pain. I mean even ignoring all the lives that they destroyed, they think that being invincible makes it like their pain can't reach them anymore.
And considering that gaining LOVE makes the one who gains it distance themselves, maybe they truly don't feel that main anymore, but also ignoring that pain is not good for them. It isn't easy, but they would need to confront it in order to properly heal from their trauma.
@@Oceane1803 Yeah, it’s a sad story that only gets resolution in Pacifism, where they get to put the plan to rest. Maybe we can do better for Kris… or maybe we can do our worst, and make our choices matter. Either way, it’s a good game.
@@jacksonvoet8312 I believe that Chara and Kris are one and the same. Just alternate universe versions of each other, just like the other Undertale characters that are in Deltarune. But we'll see. And yeah of course it's a good game.
@@Oceane1803 I think that Kris may just be a different kid, and Chara may be dorm-mates with Asriel. I do think that Kris is very much an analog of Chara though.
Chara is very interesting to me. Like Chara’s fear of the ones they care about being hurt, and the context of that want for power being twisted by the geno run makes it so much more unsettling
Edit: as in: twisted by US gang.
WE did the geno run . We do know this right? it's important to me that we know this, what with them deadass calling us a pervertedly sentimental freak if we do geno again. Like they are stuck as our assistant and think we have some greater purpose the first time but we did the geno run. if we were never in control they wouldn't let us do it again.
can we please stop damning this suicidal 10 year old for having the bad vibes of a suicidal 10 year old?
Anakin Skywalker type motives tbh/j (I'm not wrong though, with how you described it)
It humanizes the character to be honest. With that said, chara, and ultimately the archetype they represent doesn’t really love or care about anybody, not even themselves. Of course this doesn’t take nuance or depth away from the character as it’s clearly stated they were driven to this point for a reason. I just think it’s important the fandom doesn’t forget how awful chara truly is. They take glee in going out of their way to inflict harm on innocence. The abused becomes the abuser; a tale as old as time.
@@Musical_parks
I take it you think Chara's narration only applies to Genocide?
@@TheSwordsman100 Chara’s narration of the game does not equate to morality. If you feel like it, you can explain your interpretation of the character. I’d like to know where you’re coming from.
@@Musical_parks
You said that Chara does not care about anyone, not even her/themselves. That is blatantly untrue going by the whole of the narration, which shows she/they did care about their adopted monster family. The matter of morality is a separate discussion which I will admit is impacted by the player's actions.
As for my interpretation of the character, as the generally agreed on idea that Chara is the narrator in all routes not just Genocide and supplies the final memory needed to SAVE Asriel as my foundation, It is my belief that Chara came to Mount Ebott to commit suicide after the abuse they had suffered, only to unexpectedly find a loving family in the Dreemurs. While it took some time for Toriel to get Chara to try to stop harming herself/themself, Chara eventually did stop, taking up gardening, (narration dialogue and worn dagger) knitting (for King Dad guy shirt) and Toriel's speech patterns.(dialogue in general)
However, a combination of events, being told constantly how they are the hope of monster kind, (Gerson, the Game Over memory presumably takes place instead on their deathbed) accidentally poisoning Asgore, (laughing away the pain is common thing in the underground not only does Snowy's father does it, Undyne does it as well who Chara admires, furthermore Chara will do this again to Snowy's mother and it's made clear its not a maniacal or evil laugh but a sad one) overhearing/finding out about Toriel's plan to free monsterkind, (due to it being so similar to Chara and Asirel's plan) reawoke Chara's self hatred and made her/them desperate enough to live up to reputation and redeem herself/themself for causing Asgore so much pain. (having looked it up, the way Chara chose to go out is one of the most painful ways to die) Here with Asriel Chara tries to gather the souls needed but it is stopped by Asriel. They both die, etc. etc.
Once Chara awakens attached to Frisk as Chara herself/themself states are confused why they are suddenly around again and learns from the Anomaly aka the player, while helping out with their knowledge of the Underground. I'm going to stop it there since I can't really cover all the narration dialogue in a comment (heck thats why there are videos and a blog for it) and this already long. However, I will do want to point out one final thing, Chara's starting LV is 1.
Imagine the world if deltarune fans got into quantum physic
I love how this both gives us more lore on chara and also feeds into the reasoning for flowey’s mindset. As flowey, Asriel reached his greatest fear. The end of everything with nothing left. He reached 99
So we always knew toby is taking inspiration from touhou. you know, the dreemurs wearing a similar robe to sariel(who very obviously is also lending her name)/ran, asriels attacks resembling marisas, musical similarities (especially in the omega flowey fight).....
so now we know chara is based on cirno. this is canon now, definetly.
Strongest
Does that mean we can make memes about Chara being an Idiot? What does Flowey's idiot insult insinuate then?...
this fucking letter is going to be the death of me i stg. i feel like we’ve just blown the lid off a latent underlore goldmine after 9 years of talking about it
2:22 -- Asriel's total rejection of this idea comes about in his boss fight. His stats are infinite. He has rejected the hypothesis that there is a biggest number, or that anything has to end. That there's a limit to the memories they can make, or their time together. Ultimately, Chara was right, but only for themself. Asriel is proof that it can never truly end (as are we, whether we go back or forward. Time doesn't just stop, after all).
2:38 -- Reminder: Chara used coercive and abusive control tactics against Asriel to render him emotionally unable to refuse, including loyalty tests and intentionally gaslighting Asriel about his emotions being wrong with the insistence that deferral to Chara's superior emotional responses is correct.
5:00 -- oh, you got to it. Cool.
7:30 -- Yes, opposites. That makes sense.
7:45 -- Toby's been using stats for storytelling from the very beginning. Asgore's stats not being reflective of his battle stats is an indication of his mental state. The stats we see in game seldom line up with the game data, because a monster's ostensible stats don't actually reflect, necessarily, the mental state they have at the moment and your stats are also modified by your determination at points. This is why you don't die in one hit to Asriel and why Asgore doesn't obliterate you through your measly 15 DF in Pacifist with his 80 AT. A monster's stats change as you do damage to them too, even though that's not reflected in the CHECK menu, because their willingness to fight drops. This is why the final attack on Toriel in an otherwise pacifist run does so much damage. She's hit the point in her speech where she has decided that she wants to stop fighting, but she hasn't actually stopped yet. This drops her DF dramatically, causing the next hit to be unexpectedly fatal for both her and you.
10:00 -- Those stats are the same because they represent the height of Determination. They're the highest 'bounded' power value that the stats system can process. Within the context of what a monster can achieve with Determination alone, Undyne is the pinnacle. She's able to stand up to a LV10 human, and pull her body back together many times, until she's sure that her actions have fulfilled her purpose. Even though she can't beat you, that fulfillment is what allows her to die peacefully. It's likely that if she truly believed that no one would be able to stop you but her, she would have fought even harder, as is the nature of Determination, but regardless, her showing is impressive.
10:20 -- ...Both inspired by Asgore to fight for the future of monsterkind is a stretch, but you are right, they are fueled by the same thing. The difference is, Undyne, when she turns Undying, casts aside her hatred for humanity and uses that as her strength. Undyne turns from an unstoppable force into an immovable object by forsaking the desire to see humanity's end and standing against the end of humanity and monsterkind. "Whatever you are" comes from her mouth because she understands that Chara does not represent the concept of a normal human anymore, and your choices go beyond even those of the surface dwellers on impact to the world. Undyne is a mote in the eye of a god, a momentary speedbump on Chara's road to ultimate power, but any speedbump worthy of noting would have to thematically stand for the rejection of something Chara stood for.
Undyne's numbers are as high as they can get. Undyne's numbers are 99, 99. Undyne is not invincible. Undyne cannot stop you from hurting anyone.
Chara therefore adds to their own previous assertion here. The only one who's numbers being high enough matters for is them.
Even if someone else's numbers are as high as they go, they are not invincible. They cannot stop anyone from being hurt, not even themself.
IF anything, Undyne's relation to the numbers in question makes Chara seem drastically more sinister in the way they talk about those numbers.
Food for thought. Thanks again, for your quality analysis.
Side note: 6 is an upside down 9, and represents the inversion of the concept of a highest bound.
6 is associated with Gaster, and could therefore represent the negative version of bounded infinity that 9 normally represents in relation to Chara.
Gaster is notable for having 666 AT, 666 DF and 666666 HP -- all of which are higher bound upsidedown values of higher numbers of 9s than Chara can achieve within the boundaries of the game, indicating that Gaster is not only inverted from the normal bounding of the game but inherently superior to it, by being, let's just call it what it is, 'no longer stuck' inside the boundaries of the standard reading of game data.
Extra food for thought.
Great points! To go into detail a bit more about Chara and Undyne being motivated by Asgore, I think it's relatively obvious how Undyne is motivated by him, since she was trained by him and is currently the leader of his royal guard, although you can also argue that Gerson would be more of a motivation for her. They're both people she seems to have a lot of respect for so I'd say she's about equally motivated by both of them. Furthermore she described herself as basically just attacking random people in her youth because she was a pretty hot headed kid, so it seems like Asgore might have effected her a lot to go from picking fights with random people to wanting to fight for the hopes and dreams of monsterkind.
Chara is the one I imagine a lot of people would see as more of a stretch, but I actually think there's pretty solid evidence for Chara having a strong connection to Asgore. I think the biggest thing is the Game Over dialogue which seems to be Chara's memories of Asgore talking to Chara on their deathbed. (It's similar to what Asgore says in Tape 5 in the true lab) The song that plays in the Game Over screen is also called Determination, which could refer to these memories of Asgore being the main source of their determination, but it could also just be referring to how determination is used to come back to life. However, after fighting Toriel if you go back to bed, you seem to have a dream about Asgore telling Chara to stay determined. The fact these memories of Asgore seem to come up so frequently makes me feel that these memories must be important to Chara. If they felt Asgore put this massive responsibility on them, to be the future of humans and monsters, it also helps explain why they would go to such extremes to destroy the barrier. Chara definitely isn't completely innocent, but if the only thing they cared about was power they could have killed Asriel and taken his soul instead of sacrificing themself. That doesn't justify what they did, but they at the very least did seem to care about Asriel and the rest of monsterkind in their own way which I just find interesting.
Chara is described by Asriel to have had a hatred for humanity, so my interpretation of the genocide route is that after being "betrayed" by Asriel, they begin to develop a hatred for everyone, so at that point it's easy for the player to nudge them in that direction. It's basically the reverse of what happens with Undyne, she decides that along with monsterkind she wants to protect humankind, and Chara decides that along with humankind, they want to wipe out monsterkind. At the end of pacifist the barrier is destroyed by Asriel as originally planned, and at the end of the genocide route they claim vengeance on the world that wronged them from beyond the grave. Both of these endings are about Chara achieving closure.
Dang I got to remember that one for a future video at some point.
@@Grim-c8n You are 100% right about Undyne, Undyne wasn't what I was talking about here, for sure. She was clearly motivated by monsterkind's dream of freedom and Asgore's warmth. I also don't disagree that Chara clearly had some form of strong connection to Asgore. When you game over, you hear what is assumedly Asgore talking to Chara on their deathbed, for sure, though I don't think the memory of Asgore is motivating Chara's determination (if anything it's a memory of being dead that you're intermingling with chara for, IMO). Also: nothing in anything written in the game actually indicates that a human can take a Monster SOUL until Alphys tells you you will need to to cross the barrier, so it's debatable if Chara thought that taking a monster SOUL would be possible or not. Additionally, ensuring Asriel's loyalty isn't necessarily caring about him, though I don't doubt that they thought he would benefit from their plan (along with the rest of monsterkind). There's some indications that Chara expected to be conscious after death, considering that Chara was the one who acted first upon their SOUL fusion. There's also the fact that Chara seems to be a control freak in general, further reinforced by their words in this letter --
As I wrote to someone else before --
"The only logical conclusion for why their numbers being high would mean no one can hurt anyone is that they will stop them from doing so. We've already seen Chara's preferred method (even while alive) of stopping people from hurting them. That's kill them.
At the very best, that statement is a declaration that anyone who does not submit to their authority will die
At worst: It's a veiled hint that they wanted the universe empty of all creatures who could conceivably harm anyone else.
The emphasis here is on the word "Can".
Can is an explicit statement of possessing the power to.
Can is the explicit province of Determination, in Undertale.
Asgore, for instance, destroying the Mercy button.
Chara's statements in the letter seem nice on the face of them, but they explicitly say:
"Anyone who will not submit to my authority will be powerless to stop me forcing them to do what I want them to."
Or at worst: "Anyone who would hurt anyone else will simply die."
Furthermore 'seems nice on the surface with sinister beneath' is a consistent motif of Chara's dialogue."
These do not, to me, seem like the sentiments of a person who would under any circumstances be willing to give up their agency to another to achieve their goals. I don't think it's viable to state that Chara did not, in some capacity, expect to be in control when they 'gave' their SOUL to Asriel. In fact, they believed they would be able to force him to go along with them, even when they explicitly knew (through SOUL contact, no less) that he would never be okay with it and almost certainly, even if he could be forced, that he would never be 'okay' again after it. Asriel resisting seems to have been out of the question for them, which, again, shouldn't have been the case if they thought Asriel would be in control.
I DO agree that the genocide route reflects them being done with everything in the world now that everything has (to their senses) betrayed them. Whether we have any strong effect on that is up for debate, but it's clear we are, at the very least, in control until/unless we give it to them (which can only happen by playing into murder, which does say something, at the very least).
I also don't necessarily agree that all of the endings are about giving Chara closure, especially not pacifist. Pacifist seems like a rejection of Chara's ideals of control with the hopeful end that you let everything go (7 (Us), 8, 9 (Chara). - where we assume what would have been their place as Asriel's best friend and sibling and the adoptive child of Asgore and Toriel) where as Genocide seems like an inversion of that, with the desire for control winning out over everything (-9 (Chara), -8, -7 (Us). Where Chara's hatred cooks and is allowed to destroy us in the end - literally, we get cooked. Clever pun, bone man. Clever pun).
Again, food for thought.
that kinda reminds me about the hilbert hotel and the multiple types of infinty
I would add that i dont really think Chara cared about monsterkind being free as a goal necessairly when alive. Their insistence towards war leads me to believe that humanity destruction through Asriel was their main goal, and that monsterkind being free being a afterthought to have Asriel agree to follow through it.
Since, after all, Toriel did say that killing humans was not necessary for monsters to be free, diplomacy was always an option. Yet Chara chose war, because they hated humanity for one reason or another.
When monsters "failed" through Asriel, Chara then saw their inherent kindness as useless in that regard and discarded them in genocide.
Unfortunate that "Power of NEO" is track number 99 in the UNDERTALE soundtrack, not "Battle Against a True Hero"! At least the latter still has part of the former in it though.
power of neo also represents mettaton’s determination, sooo
Fortunately "Power of NEO" plays during Mettaton fight. After which you get to LV19 or 1-9. The final boss is Sans, who arrives after Mettaton.
There are demos for chapter 0 and 10, meaning a chapter 9 or chapters after 11 may happen in deltarunes future. He did say it would take 999 years to make the game or something like that. :)
toby pls release chp3 we are going insane🙏
Another interesting point with sans and chara is that sans gives absolutely no effort whatsoever, be it teleporting instead of walking and yk just doing nothing. In other words the number 1, the absolute minimum amount of effort.
compared to chara who is so determined to achieve their goal that they will do the absolute maximum and 9 is the absolute maximum number in undertale. Toby showed us the comparison through their behaviour as characters.
That makes sense, since Sans does the bare minimum to do anything, but Chara straight up manipulated their best friends with emotional abuse methods just to free monsters and defeat humans. Also they basically do the opposite in genocide: Sans goes out of his way to stop us, but Chara does nothing. Then they reverse roles again, and Sans does nothing to stop us (literally) while Chara literally erases the whole world.
Also notice how after you kill sans your hp is 99
That’s a very good observation
I feel like an opposite to Chara would actually do this instead:
"You know? I kind of like it here and there.
You want to know why my heart is blue and my mane is red?
It symbolizes closeness.
When something looks blue far away nor matter how red it is in person:
It can't get any closer.
Nothing can subtract your company anymore.
Nothing can subtract your union anymore.
But do you ever wonder if it makes you that much more anonymous?
That is why I don't worry about something as silly as 'canon'.
Everything is a miracle if you wait long enough.
But I have never been a stickler for waiting.
I just always hope that I can add just 1 more thing to the list of good between me and my environment."
sounds like sans tbh, except sans's soul is white, not red.
I always headcanoned that Undyne can be a lot like Chara in many ways, so be it me grasping at straws, or seeing an actually neat and intentional pattern, I categorically agree to what you said in this vid
11:15
OH
OH i think thats what might happen. fakeout-ending at 8, with the statement "our choices dont matter" being true until the end of chapter 8. And then we get a chapter 9 around chara, and all our choices suddenly DO matter in that chapter.
I will look forward to this. Surely this mindset and the clue's you have found will lead to most interesting results. You got this! And stay determined...
These new aspects of their personality were already my headcannon when it came to what I thought Chara was like, so seeing them directly addressed feels so cool!
what if you replay genocide route 9999 times in a row and a secret ending occurs?!?!?
DustTale
Did you know that if you play the undertale genocide route 9 times and accumulate 999:99 play time on each playthrough, a secret asgore boss fight will unlock? It's true my uncle lived in Toby Fox's basement 0_0
and then, the game reminds us that numbers aren't everything. sometimes, it's about how to use them, or about having less karma.
similarly, in genocide, the numbers are the highest, but the outcomes are the lowest.
In the pacifist, the numbers are the lowest, they always stay low. They're just used in all the right ways.
Wow I've never seen someone with such a burning hatred against Sans 😂
Holy shit we found someone who actually hates sans bois. Maybe flowey the flower decided to try using the outernet after the pacifist ending a bit more to see if it was interesting and he ended up here 😂
I've always loved how numbers themselves carry meaning within Undertale, even if we don't quite know what yet. Specifically, 1, 6, 8, and 9. I've tried looking to see if Fun Events could also be correlated to this, but I couldn't come to any conclusions outside of the obvious Gaster Door/Long Hallway. Maybe Goner Clam Girl?
5:31 who passed the microphone to a flower?
bro's gonna team up with flowey to create a sans hate club
Yeah my gang, sans is the opps to our chara, we dont play around with the sanses dawg, we charas united with undynes against the sanses long time ago my best friend
they need to team up to match our literal lack of effort. gg sanses stay winning
"my best friend" ☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️
aldo don't forget about gaster and his 6s
Gaster is the devil.
Because 666 is the beast number.
@@TheSkyGuy77
And Chara is a demon… at least the one we meet…
6 and 9 mirror one another…
Though we still know so little about Gaster to really form tight connections yet…
@@TheSkyGuy77 But maybe, just maybe, that can be a lore interpretation
Deltarune has been marketed as a ‘parallel story’ to Undertale.
9999 being an important number in Undertale, and Gaster being closely associated with 6666 as well as being undoubtedly tied to Deltarune. It’s interesting to think about
I'm not surpised Chara's and Undyne's stats connect in this way considering Chara's narration in her fights. (Chara seems to be quite the fan of Undyne) However, I do want to thank you for putting emphsis on the "Nothing can hurt you anymore" and Nothing can hurt anyone anymore." As it makes certain lines of Chara's narration from Neutral and Pacfist hit that much harder.
Do you know what is also quite interesting, when you get to the end of the true pacifist route at the end of this all, rolling the credits and exit the game and get back on? Flowey appears, he tells you to allow everyone to live happily in their life, to not reset and change anything at all. To keep your power a secret basically to never be known. And what do we see at the start main menu screen? LV1. Man this is not a true pacifist vs. genocide route. This is sans vs. CHARA route. Even better the main last bosses of the routes are people who basically are the complete opposite of the ideals of them. ASRIEL GOD OF HYPER DEATH and sans.
I also realized that the Worn Dagger has 15 AT but changes to the Real Knife with AT 99. Also the Heart Locket changed to 99AT as well.
Hehe "undyne-iable" proof.
Video: about the significance of the number 9
Credits song: six’s theme .-.
(Anyways great theory! First time I’ve heard of this)
Six is just an Australian nine anyways
i thought this wasn't going to be a good video, and i was pleasantly surprised. good video
If Chara is 9 and Sans is -9, and Gaster is 666, then the G-man is literally the most evil _chara_ -cter in any Toby Fox game.
Sans and Chara aren't opposites, they're the same. Sans puts on a facade of not caring and not putting effort into anything, but if he didn't care he wouldn't judge you, and he wouldn't stand in your way on a Genocide route. Sans and Chara have the same motivation; to protect those that are closest to them. They are even similar in regards to when they take action, with both of them waiting until the last possible moment to do anything to you when you give them a reason to. If Chara likes 9 because it's the highest number, Sans's response is a simple "But what if I just keep adding 1?"
Chara's opposite is actually Pacifist Frisk. Chara is obsessed with power because of a determination to protect those they care about. Chara is corrupted by good intentions. Pacifist Frisk doesn't care about power, and just wants to befriend everyone they meet. If Chara is an unstoppable force, Pacifist Frisk is an immovable object. Pacifist Frisk never backs down, never surrenders, and never hurts another person. If you were to ask Pacifist Frisk what their favorite number is, they'd probably respond that they can't pick a favorite because it might make the other numbers feel bad. Pacifist Frisk brings others together through mutual connection and keeps them safe through that sense of unity.
The two could never get along. Pacifist Frisk's tendency to just dodge out of the way of attacks and hugging everything in sight would likely be completely nauseating to Chara, and they would insist that there are some threats out there you can't just befriend and that sometimes violence is the only way to deal with them. When that time comes, you want to be as unbeatable as possible. This is likely why Chara is so much more powerful than Genocide Frisk as well. Genocide Frisk isn't truly obsessed with power, they only care about getting the ending. Genocide Frisk's motivation is to see everything there is to see, a morbid scientific curiosity to know the outcome of every action. The same dark path Flowey went down before them. Chara is not the same. Chara's obsession with power isn't a desire to hurt others, but to protect everything they hold dear. Chara is the final obstacle, a wall of damage too high to endure with any amount of defense. If Sans is the judge, Chara is the executioner.
This is unrelated to the video mostly, but I came to this 'theory' while watching
So, we know the Humans sealed the monsters underground with a magic spell.
I'm wondering, since it seems like humans don't have magic, the humans that casted this spell, had absorbed boss monster souls that allowed them to perform this magic?
The only supporting "evidence" have of this, is that for a human to pass through the barrier, they require a monster soul. Which I feel like could be Toby implying this idea.
If anyone actually see's this I'd like to hear your thoughts
Or... some humans may have magic as well... we don't know
That's interesting! We really don't know what the relationship between humans and magic is in undertale
Maybe its a lost tradition for humans or even just had some monsters on their side. Humans being able to use magic through monster souls would only work if they found a way to make a monster soul last longer after death. Alphys managed to do this through the DT experiments, so maybe humans had another way to do it since they're the source of determination? Who knows,it's an interesting idea though
@thirdwheel9938 Boss monster souls can persist after death, as we see with Toriel and Asgore, and Alphys implies we can use or absorb the soul in some way, just food for thought
What I'd like to note, is that Asriel is The Absolute God of Hyperdeath, and absolute means quite literally: pure, complete, perfect, unlimited, endless... which clicks even better with the idea of Asriel never letting things come to an end.
Thank you for keeping us informed. There s also 3 more chapters of deltarune coming up
“So be it... Deep inside we're... kindred spirits... you... and I...”
Wow. I’m never going to see the number 9 the same way again, huh?
Damn, the two bosses of a possible route in a game being one that mimicks your main power and desire for more, and a polar opposite of you, giving up and having zero power? Thats a badass boss concept writing right there🔥✍️
...This is also interesting in context of Deltarune, because there? _Noelle_ is the one associated with "getting stronger" and being an "angel".
09:02 read somewhere very convincing post about Chara looking up to Undyne, because of the amount of times the flavor text calls her heroic or heroine, even in No Mercy!
Actually goes hard. I was hooked the entire time
The notion of certain numbers holding thematic purpose is in a lot of media but I can't help but link Toby's use of this to how Homestuck did it, given the web comic's reoccurring numbers of 413 and 11 11 11 (and probably more too)
And its even more interesting that Gaster had all 6's on all his stats in the datamined files...Meaning the whole 6 thing isnt just a way to say "He's some kind of demonic entity or sum" it's a way to show how he is the opposite of Chara. Chara wants to have infinite power, to have everything...Now, Gaster? He's trapped in an endless abyss. He has literally nothing but himself, his mind...and his knowledge. Maybe, just maybe... he's trying to reach back, to invert this six into a nine.
Theory: during gaster experiments, he somehow got negative determination, causing him to be shattered across time and space and having all his stats be 66666
oh yeah!! didn't think about it that way!
Perhaps Deltarune will have 9 chapters, but 2 of them will be secret unless you complete the "weird route," which seems to align perfectly with our inner CHARActer manipulating the game for evil purposes.
Nope. Nope. Nope. I couldn't finish a merciless run in "Undertale" from the squick (but mostly boredom). Forcing poor Noelle to do bad things for bonus content is not on my to do list, if it's real.
Lore of The New Chara lore fills me with Validation. Momentum 100
Don't you mean Momentum 99
9 was my favorite number for the same reason, and this cemented it forever.
I feel the need to point out how Asriel's God of Hyperdeath stats are just 8's on their sides, a number just less than 9, a reminder that he doesn't want things to end.
5:18 I'm with you.
Damn, I have something in common with Chara. Maybe I'll become someone like Sukuna after all. I'll make 'em proud.
if you think about it, aren't we all supposed to have something in common with Chara? We choose their name at the beginning of the game after all!
I always had the idea that stats had to do with his mood more than his personality (mainly because talking to monsters or using certain items can change it) For example Toriel and Asgore both being "boss" monsters (implying that they are very strong) but Toriel doesn't really want to hurt you
And Asgore, Asgore is known for being a tank, almost unstoppable according to all of the underground, But somehow, while we fight him (and he forces himself to fight because he wants to free his kingdom) his stats aren't really that big of a deal, Because it is clear that he is quite fed up with killing children xd
When I saw Sans I thought "ah Sans, as lazy as ever, doesn't even have the desire to kill me"
This new information changed my perspective a little but i dont know, Maybe Toby will decide tomorrow to say that all of Undertale is a dream of Jerry
keep doing teories man this is amazing you should look the stats in deltarune
I'll just be filing this of in my list of information on characters for undertale.
ik there was alotta 9's in the game so this was crazy
Fun fact!!
In the pasifist ending, when we see the Memories of Chara and Asriel, Asriel haves 7 flowers and Chara haves 9...
if toby fox does play with numbers like this, it makes it slightly more likely that 55 -> LV is intentional
According to this analysis, Chara and Undyne's relationship to the number 9 gets the Devil May Cry brain going.
A part of DMC3's story is that Dante and Vergil both seek to gain power, but through different means and different, yet mirrored, reasons. Dante wants to gain power in order to save people from the forces of Hell, and does so by embracing both sides of himself. Or, in Undertale terms, but gaining Determination. Meanwhile, Vergil seemingly only seeks to selfishly better himself by seeking deeper into into his demonic heritage. Trying to prove himself to be the strongest being in existence simply for the sake of his own ego.
At least, thats the surface level storytelling. But there is a single line if dialogue for him that Capcom goes out of their way to highlight in Marvel vs Capcom 3 that I think belays his true intentions.
"Without might, you cannot protect anything."
Combine this with his philosophical ramblinfs in the manga and V, and it becomes clear that Vergil is someone who is motivated by deep childhood scars. While Dante wishes to protect everyone out of a sense of duty, Vergil wishes to protect his love ones because he sees himself as a failure for being unable to in the past.
Going back to Undertale, I wonder if this letter about Chara and the way stats are used for storytelling points to DMC3 as another potential inspiration for Toby. Think about it. Undyne clearly shares Dante's motivations 1:1, is similarly obsessed with looking cool and stylish outside of Genocide, and you could even equate her Undying form as a parallel to Dante's Devil Trigger. Her expending a resource she shouldn't normally have access to in order to become stronger for the sake of others. Chara, similarly to Vergil, has a storyline plagued by people who focus on the Genocide route and see a thirst for power simply to become powerful. Forgetting that this initial thirst came from wanting to bust open the underground. One way or another.
So when Jaru asks "why show us this?" I think the answer might be the same as to why Capcom felt the need to highlight Vergil's quote I mentioned before. A way to remind us who the real Chara is. Not the all consuming demon they claim to be, but rather just a scared child willing to do truly heinous things for the sake of protecting and saving their family.
it's also likely that Asriel wrote this AFTER the pacifist route happened by the lines
"So I don't like to keep count
of the flowers we pick, or the time that they laugh
or how many scary faces they make..."
IT'S LITTERALLY FLOWEY HE IS DESCRIBING HERE (I'm not sure if it is helpful but I just wanted to say it)
What if W.D. Gaster was tied to the number 6 because it's an upside down 9? Perhaps it refers to the character's ironic nature - a seemingly omniscient, omnipresent entity having no power over his own world?
why do you hate the funny skeleton? bro literally is trying to stop the end of the word
i watched this video a week ago, but i just realized, megalovania is ost number 100. battle against a true hero and power of neo are 98 and 99. i don’t know if toby intentionally did that, and someone also probably already mentioned this, but still
My fabourite number is 0 because it's higher than 9
my favourite number is 10
Fun Fact: Asriel stats are set to 8 ATK and 9999 DEF
eight is just the infinite
@@Edelweiss-l3w XD Nah
Asriel says he was only using a fraction of his power, so 8 out of 9999 makes sense
@@andriil7635 oh thats a better perspective
i though Pacifist Frisk was able to be strong enough to make it only 8 dmg
considering they can warp dreams into coming to reality
@@andriil7635 yeahhh maybe but that doesnt change the fact that 8 is a straightened ∞
@@Edelweiss-l3w and ∞ is a gay 8?
Okay first it was Baldi and now it’s Undertale i’m scared bro WHY didn’t i notice these connections for years
Oh wow! Undertale has a Zero Escape reference. when will the masked Zero show up???
I consider the opposite of Chara is Frisk they actually have 0 attack and 0 defense
Maybe thats why youre stronger than chara, because after 9 in their world it reset to 0, and reseting is Frisks main mechanic
ayo can you cover gaster's "666" stats? i'm not big brain enough to do what you did with the stat numbers, but surely those have to mean something right? 9 and 6 do look similar after all.
666 is a reference to the devil.
Gaster is the devil
and 69 is a reference to-
@@TheSkyGuy77You could also "flip" the numbers upside down and get 999. Same as Mystery man's sprite upside down to get a new face.
@@chickennuggetman2593 💀
There is one. That number... +1
that will be Kris' number.
İt all fits so good i knew toby would make somthing liks this i realised all of this way before toby said these
So interesting thing. Could the fact the 999's are often red. Hint at the idea that chara's favorite color is red?
Idk about favootite color, but it is their motif
Red soul, red text, red 9s, red jumpscare, etc
I think it's a great choice for then since according to color psychology, red is often associated with both love and hate. Fits like a glove
Chara enthusiasts eating good tonight 🗣️📢💯💯💯
We already knew Chara's weird obsession and relation to maximization as they're (among other things) the representation typical JRPG grinding standards by the end of a genocide, and that they're generally concerned with getting the most out of something (see the "efficient" undertale clock app dialogue, chara used to fill glasses to the brim with water and asriel would pick that habit from them)
9 was already clearly charas motif (asriel's too, but to a lesser extent. He only ever used 9s as flowey as well which is of note since his persona as flowey is the result of trauma after being reborn with the power of determination but also a somewhat twisted attempt to imitate traits he saw in Chara (someone we know he held in high regard) things like the scary faces and even the default smiley face being chara's trademark originally. So yeah I'm pretty sure he also borrowed the 9 motif from them too)
2 out of the 3 times the game kills somebody without your input during a no mercy route, a bunch of nines show up, that's Chara baby! That's "Now you have reached. The absolute" chara we're talking about. I'm just glad we finally have some actual confirmation that 9 is their number from the man himself because I always felt crazy explaining why 9 was Chara's signature number and being told I was reading way too much into things
It feels so good to be right, it only took 9 years but hey! It's always nice to get more chara lore, they're such a mysterious character, sometimes it's like we don't know anything about the first fallen human
...what the fuck did i miss this time
5:32 Flowey speech bubble
meanwhile, the dozenal system:
It is interesting to note as well that chara is not only associated with the number 9, but with infinite 9s, which is what they use to kill the game in genocide... 9999999... Infinite 9s. And what does sans do? 1 damage.
If you know anything about infinitely big numbers (more specifically the 10-adics, iirc), you'd know that ...99999 + 1 = 0. This is because the 9+1 turns into 10, the result being 0 and carrying the 1 to the next digit, which would propagate infinitely to the left, but never reaching the end as there are infinite 9s. This means, they actively nullify each other. ...9999 + 1 = 0.
If you say Undyne's name backwards you can't say it without a nine.
man this is mind blowing
The smallest number is 0
Whats with gaster and the number 6?
THE PROPHET LMAO!!!
Frisk has a number too 20
Not with attack
But HP 20/20 at lv 1
At level 20 (20 again) they become a powerful and suitable enough thing with their determination to literally revive a demon and you can see a Chara's symbol that they have fully corrupted frisk or took a portion of control because level 20 is not supposed to give you 99 with the statistics math
Also just off topic but Chara known for being the demon The appears when you call their name
But when you type frisk it literally awakens hell or your life will be hell as the game put it
but what happens when you flip upside down and then mirror the number 9?
You could just rotate it...
6
@@creeperizak8971 I love you
I love sans.
Ive never seen your channel before! Out of curiousity, is your video intro a reference to L’s cadence from Death Note? “Greetings to the ICPO, I am L”
I was actually just referencing Chara's introduction at the end of the genocide route but I can see why you would think that! lol
Baldis basics lore!?!?
Salutations
DINGUS !!! 😳
Wait, what’s wrong with sans? lol