This story was beyond cool, I'm glad we have this parallelism where Joker knows Batman's identity and Batman knows Joker's identity but they both choose to ignore it. It's beautiful
As thr joker as said he dosnt care about Bruce Wayne or is mommy and daddy issues and he believes the bruce is thr mask for batman and not the other wat aroundz
That part where he healed Batman’s greatest pain so that he could step into that role was like a sledgehammer to the gut. The level of hate and admiration on display was brutal.
The scene were Joker is literally breaking Jason by calling him *"his Robin"* is absolutely an unforgettable heartbreaking moment that simply must be remembered for all of Batman lore.
I like this better than the adaptation they tried in death in the family, you just cant capture Joker when you try too hard yknow? Animated Series had awesome moments, I have that voice in my mind as the silver age joker spoke these things
Eh, as a long-time fan of Jason Todd who has read literally everything with him in it, it's really not that great. It's more insulting than anything, because it basically nixes most of the character growth that Jason has done since coming back from the dead as part of Joker's plan to make him a "perfect Joker", and shoots any redemption he had in the foot to try and push a Jason-Babs romance, only for him to end up more depressed because of that. Enough with the "Joker torturing Jason" or "Jason being Joker's Robin" crap. He's had enough of that, it's been done to death, and it is damn well time that Jason got his recompense for how horribly he's been treated. Stop trying to reinvent Jason Todd or make him something he isn't. He's a gun-toting vigilante (with some level of superhuman abilities thanks to the Lazarus Pit) who is simply willing to do what Batman isn't. He's not Joker, he's not Batman, he's not Robin, and he's not Red Robin. He's not a hero, or a villain. He's just Red Hood.
@@rohanclancy7435 I hated Three Jokers because of both of those scenes, weirdly. I feel like the whole "I'll be your Robin" bit now changes Jason from the strong but unfortunately lost son he was (who had the right idea, but went about it in the wrong way, and died because of his recklessness), to nothing more than a broken boy, which Jason is so much more than. I never felt like Jason would get a new identity, because Red Hood made sense to me. I never had the question of "does that mean he'll be Joker one day?" I just knew he was Red Hood, and that it fit his character perfectly. The only scene in Three Jokers that felt in character for me was when he shot the Comedian in the head and when he lightly argued with Bruce in the cave. That being said, I would like to hear your opinion on why you felt these scenes were the few scenes where Jason was portrayed correctly.
take a close look at the janitor. wearing purple with "fun times cleaning" logo , maybe Jason's letter was deliberately removed from door. killing joker did say I'm still rooting for you jason
Hey Rob, Just wanted to say thanks for doing these. World is crazy and busy. Its nice to just sit with a cup of coffee and friends discussing comics. Your channel is my stress relief.
Not really. I mean, Barbara's been with Dick, yet no one thought it was weird. Besides, I kind of like Jaybabs, especially with their damage from the Joker.
When they're sitting in the van, with Joker having a hizzy fit about how he'll be batman's greatest pain and enemy, i wish batman just went "The riddler is my greatest pain"
Wow, that close up panel of Joker's face at 51:10 ... When Batman saves Joe Chill, it's like the same reaction Joker has in The Dark Knight when Batman swerves the pod out of the way. Both times were each story's only instance of Joker being surprised, and the faces are pretty similair.
I always thought the slippery slope theory does apply to batman because realistically his intelligence always sides with the reasoning that all of his villians deserve to die. Therefore, if he ever decided to carry out that reasoning, he honestly wouldn't stop because its the most logical thing to do. He would be justice lord superman or wonder woman when it comes to villians idealistically. He is purposely being illogical and handicapping himself in fear of himself.
Or, Batman sees that it isn't right to be judge, jury, and executioner. He recognizes that he isn't always right. That he doesn't always make the right decision or handle things in the right way. That's a big part of his character and why he's always brooding. One thing I don't understand is why people put it on Batman to kill the Joker. It doesn't really make sense to me. He should go to court and be given the death penalty. The Jokers life should be decided by the penal system. Batmans job is only capture him. I think Batman sees it as letting the jury decide how to deal with him. If the Joker is put to death, then I don't think Batman will bat an eye.
@Joe-tato "The Potato" Biden I fully agree! Batman is trusting the system to deal with him in the way that THE PEOPLE see fit. If the courts decided that Joker deserved to die and sentenced him to death Batman would absolutely respect it.
@@joe-tatothepotatobiden47 Spot on. I think why Batman is 'incorruptible' is because he *is* corruptible, or he's cognizant of that fact. He doesn't see himself as Gotham's hero or savior. He's done some questionable things and broken some laws, too. He carries a lot of guilt inside just from being Batman. He has a lot of darkness inside him, and is not so different from villains like the Joker, Two-face, etc. The only thing that distinguishes him from the rest of them is that he could keep the darkness at a bay. He hasn't lost himself yet in it completely, and that's thanks to the people in his life, honestly. His Bat family, Jim Gordon, and the kind people of Gotham. He must put his trust and faith in those seemingly regular folks, because if they can remain decent human beings somehow despite their sufferings and failings, Batman must be able to, as well. That said, Batman is a person with genuine good intentions and a deep sense of justice. It was his love for his parents that was the catalyst for Batman, and part of the reason why he doesn't want to kill. His very own were murdered in front of him; killing another criminal, no matter how much the deserve it, would be playing the game by their own rules. In Batman's eyes, that'd be dishonoring his parents' memory, which honoring them has been his main reason for doing what he does all this time. Naturally, he understands people like the Joker better because he's been through the same things. He's had that 'one bad day' that turned him. He and the others are all a byproduct of the corrupt and wicked Gotham, but as for him he's become a symbol of *hope* amidst all of that. I also agree with your call for the Joker's punishment to be decided by a Grand jury. Batman is not a hero, and it shouldn't be up to him to make that decision. Again, doing so would be a very slippery slope. If we give him the right to carry out such as thing as taking a criminal's life, he will *abuse* that right. Anyone would! It's too easy to get in your head and start believing you know better. That would be like playing God, where you would be above the law or *making* it. I'm sure Batman is aware of this, and I think it's for that reason he hasn't fallen yet utterly.
Ahhh I’m so glad everyone here understands Batman as a character. It gets old and annoying hearing Rob and others constantly demand Batman kill his villains. What gets me the most is none of those people demand any other heroes kill theirs…..
I do agree. Batman applies the slippery slope to himself because he KNOWS he wouldn't be able to stop once he kills the Joker. If he kills him and justifies it, he'll justify the next one. And the next one. And so forth. He doesn't consider himself able to just stop once started. And if I gotta be honest, the man dresses up as a bat to go punch criminals in the face, he's not right in the head.
I think this is an amazing batman, joker story. It's so deep and emotional. I know how a lot of people don't like or think that it isn't cannon to the main DC universe but I honestly don't think it matters. If it's cannon, it makes sense..if not it's still an all around great story of healing. I feel like this is so common to "the killing joke".The red hood tie in is genius as well
I always kind of thought Joaquins joker was essentially the same joker as heaths out of the three. So maybe Nicholson as the criminal, pheonix as the comedian, and Leto as the clown. This way, Leto joker dies pretty quick so we don't have to deal with much of that, we get a really cool scene with nicholsons joker and batman as they stand off at the theater, and pheonix gets to be the last man standing.
I really wish they would make this comic into an animated movie, if they do they should get the guy who did Silco in Arcane to voice the Criminal, I feel like he would be perfect for his role.
i think they should have the Jokers voiced by the actors who best resemble those versions. The Criminal - Jack Nicholson The Comedian - Mark Hamill The Clown - Joaquin Phoenix and Batman voiced by Ben Affleck who can better personify the more angry Batman. Jason voiced by Jensen Ackles and Barbara voiced by i dont know, maybe Leslie Grace who was supposed to play her in the cancelled Batgirl movie. thoughts?
The slippery slope is actually a very interesting argument, people just default to it being a fallacy through poor usage. For example, you present the usual examples. However, the fact about a slippery slope is exactly what you said "you could just stop yourself." People always immediately assume that on a slippery slope you ALWAYS slip. No. You could do cocaine and not be addicted, BUT it's a slippery slope because you always have the chance of slipping, or becoming addicted. That then makes self control harder, and makes rationalizing your addiction easier, then if you do it again, you could slip farther down the slope. It's not a fallacy, it's just often used as one. And in the terms of killing, it's easier, essentially becoming addicted to the convenience. Not exactly the same, but it's obviously still there. So if you kill again, what took a month becomes a week job. That's really the slope there. Sure you could counter it by just drawing the line, but it's very hard to be a utilitarian about "who is exactly too dangerous to kill." Where exactly DO you draw the line of morality vs convenience. Plus, now you've created a precedent
Your absolutely right. Hell Batman used to kill on the first issues. Used a giant gun to kill a couple monster men and was fine with it. It's thematically better for him to use other methods so the writers imposed the no kill rule but if he were to kill were is the line drawn? Sure Joker should die, but so should twoface, mr zazaz, the black mask, killer croc, an argument could be made for the riddler. Penguin might not kill directly but how many people has he hurt with his crimes? The point being no one but an impartial third party as the judge should make that call
Good argument, except that it shouldn't apply to the Joker. We have a person who is known to be killing just for the sake of it. And we know he won't just stop.
He was testing the chair. I doubt Batman, the World’s Greatest Detective and the second smartest man in the DC Universe, would cheat to get the answer to who the Joker is. He just didn’t know that there were three of them.
I think at that moment, he wanted to be sure. Even the smartest people in the world would test their theory again, and maybe three times. Just to be sure he was right. and then THREE names popped up.
An arguement you can make, is that Batman stands for order, and the justice system. By killing the Joker, it’d be doing what the Joker wanted. It would also please the Joker, as batman finally treated him as important. ( killing him but no others) Not to mention with the Lazerus Pit, and what would happen to Batman publicly. He could start being framed for other murders, quite easily. ( As the Joker wouldn’t let that act be known) Though I would to see a series like that. To see the entire city turning on Batman, the good & bad sides. And hearing “ you finally murdered him?! After countless died every time he escaped!” What he would do, and how it would be a stepping stone for Gotham changing / a new hero. but because Batman is too popular it won’t happen. I hate when people say DC is dark, when you have characters like Batman and Superman lol. It would be great to see DC evolve, as being told the same stories with very little character growth / change is boring. We all know Batman will live, he won’t kill the joker. Killing joke was amazing because they broke the taboos which was great.
I'm stopping at 15min in, buying the book & reading it THEN coming back to finish this. It's that good so far. ..."When's the last time you missed?" I LOVE Geof Johns, and Fabok is in the top 3 or 4 artists of his generation. Gotta get this book.
let me just apologize for just finding you my good sir. This has been the greatest dive into the story. You have gained another fan, follower, and intrigued reader!
Except that's like saying "we Know you better than you know yourself" ... If Batman kills the joker HE knows HE wouldn't stop there. We would be assuming it'll be easy to just not kill after joker.
@@FBJoestarXP That's basically what I assume, Bruce Wayne's psyche is already on thin ice as he dealt with serious trauma as a kid. He knows that if he killed, he wouldn't stop.
Kinda wish Alfred, Dick and Tim were in this as background characters. Dick's grief as Jason's older brother, and Tim's feelings as the successor. And Alfred watching his family fall apart.
25:00 - With the Gambling argument, it's not absolving responsibility as much as knowing yourself, in Batman's case. People who become addicts have certain vulnerabilities. Gaps in their mental armor that would protect against addictive behaviors, mental illnesses, and falling prey to fallacies. Batman knows himself well enough to know that he IS vulnerable to a mental illness that would lead to him becoming a serial killer. He has those gaps, and he knows it. Exposing himself to murderous intent could send him down a path that he literally can't come back from on his own before he kills a LOT of people. Jason Todd also has vulnerabilities, but these were beaten into him first by Batman, then by the Joker. Like a fish being carried by the current, he is being swept away into a life of murder. He had the capacity to heal, mentally, spiritually, emotionally, but as Batman points out, he hasn't healed correctly. Does that mean he is absolved? No. But it does mean that how he got there is not entirely his fault, and that understanding, perspective, and compassion is what is needed if he has any chance of correcting before he kills again.
I know I'm 2 years late to this comment, but just wanna say that I completely agree with your analysis of Batman. That's what I thought, too. He must see himself in the Joker, in the others, but he's cognizant of his own character flaws and weaknesses. I am, too, which is why I totally get this logic. There are things I would avoid to do at all costs because I know myself. I know I may not be able to resist. Batman is 'incorruptible' because he knows he _is_ corruptible.
What if suggestions: Rob did Beyond Omega Level: RESURRECTION MAN Thane and Grail had a baby Ultron led the CiS in the clone wars Gorilla Grodd got Cerebro Galactus devours the Star Wars universe Joker becomes a Sith Braniac invaded Cybertron Abeloth invades the marvel universe Gollum got the orange lantern ring Ra's al Ghul got the Mandarin Rings
I'm so glad you do these videos. I've been wondering about the 3 jokers since Batman got the chair but I have not had any time whatsoever to read the comics involved. Thank you.
I am a huge Joker fan and this comic book this story like The Killing Joke is a masterpiece and in my opinion and in my mind will forever be the foundation of The Joker’s story it is just phenomenal I love it
I…have mixed feelings about this story. It has some fantastic scenes; Joker breaking Jason while he’s tied to a chair, ‘it hurts when I laugh’, pretty much everything with Joe Chill, showing the final Joker knows Bruce’s secret and gave him closure just be number 1 in Batman’s list of foes, many other. Brilliant scenes that will stick in my mind for a long time. BUT…there’s so many plot holes. Even for a comic. How did the world’s greatest detective not figure out his arch nemesis was three different guys? Ignoring that the have different faces, do they have the exact same build? Height? Shoe size? Shouldn’t they do fingerprints and DNA swabs for every crime? Does a dump in ACE chemicals mess up all that too? And how the hell did they organise? Did two just sit back and wait whenever one was in hospital or prison, and avoid going out? That doesn’t sound like a Joker thing to do, wait for someone else to break out. And was Harley sleeping with only one of them or more? Cause she should have noticed something! And I’m definitely against the idea of Batman knowing the Joker’s identity. Especially if he’s known it for years! If hd did, why ask the Möbius chair in the first place? This counteracts years of cannon! Not to mention all those internal monologues where he’s admitted he still doesn’t know despite searching for years! And if he did, why wouldn’t he tell Alfred? The man knows who Superman is, why not your greatest foe? Ugh, I really want some of this to be cannon. But until they figure out at least some of those issues, I’m going to act like it’s an elsewords story
@@Someguy1213 I can believe that - Joker's brilliant enough to disguise himself successfully several times. But I can't believe three people over decades could match their exact bodies consistently enough to hide it from The World's Greatest Detective. Batman figured out who was wearing the Batgirl costume in seconds during No Man's Land just by recognizing her footwork. How'd he not notice even subtle differences about his greatest enemy? If they were were clones or from alternate universes, sure, but three men of similar age, height, build, facial structure, dental structure, and everything else? That means all three of them would have to be at least as brilliant as each other, not to mention outsmarting Batman.
When it comes to the "slippery slope" argument with Batman, I just have to say one thing. Batman is not a regular person who COULD only kill once. He has too many issues. Bruce Wayne, for all intents and purposes, us a high functioning psychopath with acute paranoia. A lot of orphaned children have seen their parents die in front of them. Not all of them dress up like a flying rodent and devote his life to crime fighting, especially with all of the assets at Bruce Wayne's disposal. He has his rule and he needs his rule, or else he doesn't know where the line is anymore. It would feel too good for him and it would be too easy for him. The Batman Who Laughs is a prime example of what happens when Bruce let's go. He makes Clark kill his family with black kryptonite. Now sure, he could PROBABLY kill without a problem, but he knows he's too dangerous to let himself kill. What IF he liked it too much? What IF killing became no big deal to him? To ensure he doesn't, he makes the rule and makes sure to never break it... intentionally. That would mean it's okay for him to judge if people die. It means he gets to play a higher power that he's afraid of. It means that it could lead him down a road he never wanted to be. Why do you think Bruce basically shrugged off Jason killing the first Joker? Because not only did he know it was the right thing, it also meant that he didn't have to do it. As long as he sticks to his rule, he can never be compromised, exactly like the Jokers were trying to do to Jason. He needs it to know where not to go, because he's broken, because he can't do it himself, because he WANTS to.
Plus (sorry I'm late) it would be a mess for the justice system. A vigilante kills a high profile terrorist. It would mean a trial, in which batman would have to unmask, and you know where that leads to. It also means becoming a fugitive, and you know gordon would pursue him, and even if he doesn't get caught, that makes the process of getting evidence from the cops and investigating crime scenes harder. And that is what would happen in a sane world, but in Gotham the courts and cops are corrupt. What if the murder of the joker is found legal, and then copycat vigilantes kill normal, 'out of necessity' criminals, or criminals trying to justify murder with legal loopholes. What if the cops do the same, and get gordon out of the way to be able to. Many possible logistical problems arise from killing a criminal.
THIS story, should have been a trilogy of movies. Batman: Tragedy (Red Hood and Endgame - a Joker Dies) Batman: Joker War (Jokes and Riddles) Batman: Three (as in Three Jokers) Each one played by different actors. Jim Carrey, Willem Dafoe and Jack Nicholson. Those are my three actors, you pick your own. Side note: I love how, even in Joker's fantasy, he knows his family wants to get away from him.
You put a lot of work into all these videos. It's appreciated. We've talked a few times on instagram and from then until now you have delivered. Awesome work and you'll never get a thumbs down from me
The Criminal: The OG Joker, and most likely the original Red Hood. The Clown: Second Joker, the one who killed Jason Todd. The Comedian: The most recent Joker, the one who shot Barbara Gordon, the last surviving Joker and the one everyone thinks of when you mention the name.
I'll be honest, I never thought the beat version of the "slippery slope" argument was that Batman couldn't stop himself, it was that the people's perception of him would be a slippery slope. That, if he just ran up and killed Joker, people would start being incredibly divided about Batman himself. Some would view him as the hero who did what needed to be done and would expect him to continue killing because now there's a "new most deadly villain" and other people would start viewing him as another villain. Both would be murderers, Batman's would just be for his reasons while the Jokers is for his. Whereas, if he doesnt kill anyone, there is a clear distinction. Also, why does Batman have to kill him? Why hasn't the city, or state, or federal government given him the death penalty? Do they need more evidence? Just like it's not cop's job to execute bad guys (even though some think it is), it shouldn't have to be Batman's either. If the government deems them beyond rehabilitation, Old yeller that mutha trucka.
The problem with that is that there is no way that there isnt a kill on site order low key attached to the Joker. Like bring him in dead or alive. Also you are legally in the clear to use lethal force in the defense of your life or the life of others if all else fails. Batman is straight a murderer, the man maims people regularly, he beats henchmen until they stop moving -thats a coma btw thats called beating someone into a coma, he ziplines people to ceilings in multi storey warehouses by their feet and just leaves them there. Have you ever seen Batman call an ambulance? If it's not seen on panel it doesn't happen. Beat cops show up after Batman leaves and have to determine whether Batman has been there or if a whole other crime happened.
@SLUG BOY that’s what I’m saying a couple might . But stop making it the same as incest if people who’ve known each other a long time hook up or date it’s so childish. This is comics
I dont think you understand what slippery slope is. Slippery slope is that you want something, you want to do something, it's a craving in the back of your mind. You used the example of one drink, being afraid of becoming an alcoholic. It's more accurate to say, you desire to get drunk, that one drink makes ALL the difference.
I'll be honest. When i saw "boss joker" or "original joker" his serious look reminds me of Heath Ledger's joker. And then going through this only solidified my comparison
As a matter of fact, Heath Ledger's Joker was heavily inspired by Joker in his first few comics from the early 40s, which were the original Joker's earliest appearances.
@@bodd-energon5502 really? So He was always supposed to have a sort of villainous seriousness to him then. Heath Ledger still has one of my FAVORITE portrayals of the Joker
For a group of super rich, hyper intelligent, seasoned detectives and fighters the batfamily wear outfits which can be penetrated by common edged weapons, have easily manipulated utility belts, and tape notes to doors. Just...wow....
40:30 well, he doesn't stop at that level of logic The thing with slippery slope is, it's not as directly applicable as you are considering it. It's actually the fact that he knows that human life is extremely valuable. Once he takes away the chance of being a better man from someone, he's crossing that line where he loses all his self-respect. The circumstances he is in, he will be forced to take someone's life again. And, if he has done it before, if he has lost that self-respect, killing that guy won't be that big of a deal as the first time. That's what he's afraid of, i.e. he's afraid of losing that self-respect for the values he hold dear. The thing is, by allowing joker to live and kill more people, he's inflating his own ego thinking "I'm better than this" when he's really not. If he really understood the importance of a human life, then saving many lives by taking this one life won't be this big of a deal. FFS, that's exactly what soldiers are for.
so when the joker was fantasizing about having dinner with his wife and kid, he just imagined them looking exactly the way they really do? i suspect The Joker knows his family is in Alaska, and has seen them recently, cause the kid even has the same hair cut.
I think his wife is more dangerous than Bruce knows and I think that a good twist would be if she lied and deceived Bruce into thinking that she was a helpless victim.
Honestly I like Geoff johns as a comic book writer but after seeing how he treated the justice league cast it honestly disappoints me how such a cool dude can be so cruel and evil to other people honestly. Plus him and whedon ruined justice league so it’s best if he just sticks to comics tbh
I think the no-killing rule only makes sense when u consider the fact that, upon knowing that Joe Chill is just a desperate man who was forced into making an awful decision, Batman looks at his entire rogues gallery as well as any criminal he sees in the exact same way. He sees the people he fights as just that - people who have undergone some kind of incredible suffering, however, they were never as fortunate as Bruce because he had Alfred by his side, money, and guidance. When seen this way, Bruce's viewpoint makes sense - most thugs Batman comes across are regular people who don't need to die, depraved killers like Zsaz clearly suffer from some kind of mental disorder, killer croc was born with a defect and treated like a monster all his life which led to him becoming one, I could go on. But then you have the Joker. There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with him - he doesn't have a name, no known loved ones aside from a pshchiatrist who he manipulated and (at least in this book) a family who is terrified of him, and nobody at Arkham can diagnose him with anything. The Joker is, to me, the personification of evil - no matter how much you say that there's a reason for everything, you can always be laughed at by the idea of pure evil. In this regard, and unlike all of Batman's other rogues, the Joker is irredeemable, but Batman's philosophy refuses him to believe that he isn't also a human being who has experienced immense amounts of pain, and therefore, Batman can't bring himself to kill him. I personally find this much more satisfying than the "slippery slope" argument because, do you really think that Batman of all people lacks self control?
3:24 Also one of the best lines from Batman Beyond Return of the Joker after Joker tortures Robin and learns who Batman is. "And kind of like the kid who peeks at his christmas present I must admit its sadly anticlamatic. Behind all the sterm and batarangs you are just a little boy in a playsuite crying for mommy and daddy. It'd be funny if it weren't so pathetic. Oh what the heck I'll laugh anyway!"
@33:17 SPOT ON! You called it 3 years ago! The new Joker: Year One series just established that the “Three Jokers” are just different versions of the same person.
You forgot to mention what actually lead up to Jason Todd being killed off in the comics. DC didn’t want to do that but decided to leave it up the readers so in issue before the one where Jason is killed in the back of the comic DC put a poll for for readers to vote for vote on whether Jason would be killed or not. obviously we know how that turned out. I found it pretty interesting that DC literally waited until the very last second to decide this. And because of that they had to of wrote two stories for that issue one where Jason lives and one where Jason dies just in case the vote went one way or the other. The poll idea was such a great idea because I think that it actually made Jason a better character later on when he comes back as the Red Hood. By writing the story so that Jason is just getting beat to death mercilessly and Batman finding out where Joker took Jason only to arrive just as the building Jason was being held in blows up. That failure ended up adding a lot of depth to Batman and really caused emotional turmoil for him because at the end of the day he’s developing super self destructive tendencies because he back helpless to stop what happened that made him feel the same exact way he felt the night is parents died. That he was still just as weak and helpless as the boy in that alley all those years ago. God damn do I love Batman’s stories, their just so many of them and Just about all of them are fucking great!
The better argument against Batman killing (and one I thought came up at some point in some incarnation) is that once you kill, you're a killer. It doesn't matter if you kill one or one million. It doesn't matter if you do it for good for for ill. It only takes ending one life, and to make that decision, even for a single life, requires rationalization. It requires becoming an arbiter for who lives and who dies. Even if you only kill one person and decide to never kill again, the grim calculus you applied to your victim will always weigh on your mind, and it _will_ influence how you view others. It _will_ affect your thinking about who is and isn't worthy of mercy. Even if you never kill again, it _will_ poison your mind. _That_ is the burden Batman tries to avoid. It's not a matter of whether or not he could stop killing once he starts. It's a matter of whether or not he wants to live with making that decision even once.
I can't believe I didn't pick up on this before but TKJ Joker is wearing a" Large Marge" Trucking hat well Paul Rubens is the actor who played Pee Wee Herman In the movie Pee Wee's Big Adventure where "Large Marge" gave Pee Wee a ride in her truck....well in 2008 Paul Rubens made an appearance on Conan O'Brian announcing that he had been cast to play The Joker in Christopher Nolan's film The Dark Knight. In a later interview on Conan Ruben's confessed to loving the art of the lie and recounted a story about telling the press he'd heard everyone in the room were getting mopeds HAHAHA Ruben's also remembered everyone being disappointed when that didn't happen.
They have to plan in different ways because their goals are different. Joker doesn't care how long it takes to do what he desires. And he has a singular focus. Batman has to deal with things in the moment or short term to protect Gotham and the people in it.
I agree with you on the slippery slope argument....BUT with Batman he has said that if he killed he would essentially lose himself. Batman knows himself well enough to know what killing the Joker would lead to. That's why he won't kill the Joker. He explains it well in Under The Red Hood.
Late to the game but that whole letter to the door that Barbara never gets calls back to Romeo and Juliet where the letter Juliet sent about her plans never reached Romeo and pretty much caused the double suicide.
Ok I agree with the slippery slope argument in the case of batman because batman is insane. I feel this has been pretty well established at this point that batman really isn't that far off from total insanity so he fears that if he kills once then he'll enjoy it or he'll consider it a solution and he will fall down that rabbit hole
The slippery slope argument can work for Batman if you believe that Batman isn’t of sound mind (and let’s be honest he really isn’t) To use your own reasoning, sure an average person can have a drink and not become an alcoholic, but if an alcoholic sits down and haves a single drink, they run the risk of not being able to stop. If Batman never made his rules, he would’ve been a supervillain/anti-hero
thats actually a great explanation batman is clearly not well in the head only an insane person would become batman after what happened and he is basically moved purely by ptsdso i can totally see him completely losing it after he kills someone especially the joker
This storyline is like... a Top 5 comic of all time. It proves they're not all superheroes and world ending danger. There's real emotion, and pain, and characterization. It tells a real story.
Interesting stuff...! Still wondering when we will see the Batman: KnightFall, KnightQuest and KnightsEnd series on the channel. Future Video?! I think it’s more relevant than one might think.
My guess? He knew something was off, and he might have even assumed there was a new Joker out there, but he didn't know for certain, and he never would in any reasonable timeframe, so he needed the absolute certainty afforded by something he knew to be effectively omniscient.
If Batman told red hood and batgirl which joker was the real one theyd think he also knew the Jokers identity bc there was literally no other clue to which 1 was real.
I *despise* how the writers use Batgirl as basically a chic to fling around at any bat-family member they please. At this point, across all continuities, she's had some kind of romance with *every* original bat-family member, because the writers don't know how to do anything with female characters besides have them be trophy wives or shot.
I have such a love/hate relationship with this story....it started AMAZING....and the hype was 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 but idk about the ending...🥺 Maybe it should have been more issues....?
@@itsnotme987 I wish the 3 jokers all survived tbh, it's infinitely interesting. The criminal honestly should have probably been the one to survive though if any of them, but i had my doubts that would happen when they gave the one all the big moments in jokers history.
![ลองสุ่มไอโฟน 990 โกงมั้ย? [ โกงมั้ยครับ ep.101 ] | DOM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bfsWe0j492k/mqdefault.jpg)
This story was beyond cool, I'm glad we have this parallelism where Joker knows Batman's identity and Batman knows Joker's identity but they both choose to ignore it. It's beautiful
As thr joker as said he dosnt care about Bruce Wayne or is mommy and daddy issues and he believes the bruce is thr mask for batman and not the other wat aroundz
@@Son.D.Lollipop have you never seen an ad about grammarly bro 💀💀
@sond.lollipop8919 yez, wut yu sed
@@codmnoobtubermaybe he doesn’t speak English lol
That part where he healed Batman’s greatest pain so that he could step into that role was like a sledgehammer to the gut. The level of hate and admiration on display was brutal.
The scene were Joker is literally breaking Jason by calling him *"his Robin"* is absolutely an unforgettable heartbreaking moment that simply must be remembered for all of Batman lore.
I like this better than the adaptation they tried in death in the family, you just cant capture Joker when you try too hard yknow?
Animated Series had awesome moments, I have that voice in my mind as the silver age joker spoke these things
To test the chair
Eh, as a long-time fan of Jason Todd who has read literally everything with him in it, it's really not that great. It's more insulting than anything, because it basically nixes most of the character growth that Jason has done since coming back from the dead as part of Joker's plan to make him a "perfect Joker", and shoots any redemption he had in the foot to try and push a Jason-Babs romance, only for him to end up more depressed because of that. Enough with the "Joker torturing Jason" or "Jason being Joker's Robin" crap. He's had enough of that, it's been done to death, and it is damn well time that Jason got his recompense for how horribly he's been treated.
Stop trying to reinvent Jason Todd or make him something he isn't. He's a gun-toting vigilante (with some level of superhuman abilities thanks to the Lazarus Pit) who is simply willing to do what Batman isn't. He's not Joker, he's not Batman, he's not Robin, and he's not Red Robin. He's not a hero, or a villain. He's just Red Hood.
@@rohanclancy7435 I hated Three Jokers because of both of those scenes, weirdly. I feel like the whole "I'll be your Robin" bit now changes Jason from the strong but unfortunately lost son he was (who had the right idea, but went about it in the wrong way, and died because of his recklessness), to nothing more than a broken boy, which Jason is so much more than.
I never felt like Jason would get a new identity, because Red Hood made sense to me. I never had the question of "does that mean he'll be Joker one day?" I just knew he was Red Hood, and that it fit his character perfectly. The only scene in Three Jokers that felt in character for me was when he shot the Comedian in the head and when he lightly argued with Bruce in the cave.
That being said, I would like to hear your opinion on why you felt these scenes were the few scenes where Jason was portrayed correctly.
It’s just so heartbreaking seeing how the joker mentally broke Jason
"It hurts when I laugh" is such an underrated line
That moment Bruce Wayne held Joe Chill's hand as he died...Warmed my heart...
Bruh just some guy your every where
I feel like joe chill should’ve been the criminal joker instead of having the criminal joker with 3 other’s
to me that was my favorite part of the entire story
@@thomasvu6209 where have you seen this mustache guy 👨
Dude I think we would be best friends you are literally on every video I watch lmao
take a close look at the janitor. wearing purple with "fun times cleaning" logo , maybe Jason's letter was deliberately removed from door. killing joker did say I'm still rooting for you jason
thought the same thing when I saw it.
I came here to post the exact same comment!
The Fourth Joker: The Custodian.
This was epic theory
@@MrJellyton the fitth joker: the Chemist
Hey Rob,
Just wanted to say thanks for doing these. World is crazy and busy.
Its nice to just sit with a cup of coffee and friends discussing comics. Your channel is my stress relief.
Word.
“It’s weird that they kiss since they’re like brother and sister”
Batman in The Killing Joke: “Hold my cowl” 🤣
Well that was the movie and something g was needed to add to the run time. Just can’t believe that was what they went with
Not really. I mean, Barbara's been with Dick, yet no one thought it was weird. Besides, I kind of like Jaybabs, especially with their damage from the Joker.
@@fynnthefox9078 I prefer Tim and Barbra
@@jw_gojifan19 considering it's been a thing since the animated series it's really not a stretch
I was listening to this exact line when I open up the comments, tripped me tf out 😂😂
I love how the artist blends batmans tears after hearing joe chill saying that he is truly sorry. Loved it amazing book
When they're sitting in the van, with Joker having a hizzy fit about how he'll be batman's greatest pain and enemy, i wish batman just went "The riddler is my greatest pain"
And put the citizens of Gotham at even more risk
Wow, that close up panel of Joker's face at 51:10 ... When Batman saves Joe Chill, it's like the same reaction Joker has in The Dark Knight when Batman swerves the pod out of the way. Both times were each story's only instance of Joker being surprised, and the faces are pretty similair.
I always thought the slippery slope theory does apply to batman because realistically his intelligence always sides with the reasoning that all of his villians deserve to die. Therefore, if he ever decided to carry out that reasoning, he honestly wouldn't stop because its the most logical thing to do. He would be justice lord superman or wonder woman when it comes to villians idealistically. He is purposely being illogical and handicapping himself in fear of himself.
Or, Batman sees that it isn't right to be judge, jury, and executioner. He recognizes that he isn't always right. That he doesn't always make the right decision or handle things in the right way. That's a big part of his character and why he's always brooding.
One thing I don't understand is why people put it on Batman to kill the Joker. It doesn't really make sense to me. He should go to court and be given the death penalty. The Jokers life should be decided by the penal system. Batmans job is only capture him. I think Batman sees it as letting the jury decide how to deal with him. If the Joker is put to death, then I don't think Batman will bat an eye.
@Joe-tato "The Potato" Biden I fully agree! Batman is trusting the system to deal with him in the way that THE PEOPLE see fit. If the courts decided that Joker deserved to die and sentenced him to death Batman would absolutely respect it.
@@joe-tatothepotatobiden47
Spot on. I think why Batman is 'incorruptible' is because he *is* corruptible, or he's cognizant of that fact. He doesn't see himself as Gotham's hero or savior. He's done some questionable things and broken some laws, too. He carries a lot of guilt inside just from being Batman. He has a lot of darkness inside him, and is not so different from villains like the Joker, Two-face, etc. The only thing that distinguishes him from the rest of them is that he could keep the darkness at a bay. He hasn't lost himself yet in it completely, and that's thanks to the people in his life, honestly. His Bat family, Jim Gordon, and the kind people of Gotham. He must put his trust and faith in those seemingly regular folks, because if they can remain decent human beings somehow despite their sufferings and failings, Batman must be able to, as well.
That said, Batman is a person with genuine good intentions and a deep sense of justice. It was his love for his parents that was the catalyst for Batman, and part of the reason why he doesn't want to kill. His very own were murdered in front of him; killing another criminal, no matter how much the deserve it, would be playing the game by their own rules. In Batman's eyes, that'd be dishonoring his parents' memory, which honoring them has been his main reason for doing what he does all this time.
Naturally, he understands people like the Joker better because he's been through the same things. He's had that 'one bad day' that turned him. He and the others are all a byproduct of the corrupt and wicked Gotham, but as for him he's become a symbol of *hope* amidst all of that.
I also agree with your call for the Joker's punishment to be decided by a Grand jury. Batman is not a hero, and it shouldn't be up to him to make that decision. Again, doing so would be a very slippery slope. If we give him the right to carry out such as thing as taking a criminal's life, he will *abuse* that right. Anyone would! It's too easy to get in your head and start believing you know better. That would be like playing God, where you would be above the law or *making* it. I'm sure Batman is aware of this, and I think it's for that reason he hasn't fallen yet utterly.
Ahhh I’m so glad everyone here understands Batman as a character. It gets old and annoying hearing Rob and others constantly demand Batman kill his villains. What gets me the most is none of those people demand any other heroes kill theirs…..
I do agree. Batman applies the slippery slope to himself because he KNOWS he wouldn't be able to stop once he kills the Joker. If he kills him and justifies it, he'll justify the next one. And the next one. And so forth. He doesn't consider himself able to just stop once started. And if I gotta be honest, the man dresses up as a bat to go punch criminals in the face, he's not right in the head.
I think this is an amazing batman, joker story. It's so deep and emotional. I know how a lot of people don't like or think that it isn't cannon to the main DC universe but I honestly don't think it matters. If it's cannon, it makes sense..if not it's still an all around great story of healing. I feel like this is so common to "the killing joke".The red hood tie in is genius as well
One sentence story summary: Joker is in love with Batman and is salty about it.
Alternate title:
Joker is in love with Batman so he helps him overcome his childhood trauma 💚💜
No Joker just loves to mess with Batman because it's too much fun to him. If Batman dies, The Joker will have no one to play with.
That's every joker story.
Lego Batman is canon.
yvy G bbto Bb i bush
Imagine this as a movie with Jack Nicholson, can't really have heath ledger, maybe a look alike, and Joaquin Phoenix.
U just blew my fucking mind 🤯
I always kind of thought Joaquins joker was essentially the same joker as heaths out of the three. So maybe Nicholson as the criminal, pheonix as the comedian, and Leto as the clown. This way, Leto joker dies pretty quick so we don't have to deal with much of that, we get a really cool scene with nicholsons joker and batman as they stand off at the theater, and pheonix gets to be the last man standing.
Jack Nicholson, the comedian
Heath Ledger, the criminal
Joaquin Phoenix, the clown
@@macehilmatecilof4140 Don't sleep on Jeremiah and Jerome from Gotham, my favorite live action Joker tbh, even if Joker was an exceptional movie.
Well, Joseph Gordon-Levitt kinda looks like Ledger!
I really wish they would make this comic into an animated movie, if they do they should get the guy who did Silco in Arcane to voice the Criminal, I feel like he would be perfect for his role.
For an elder joker? I think if they didn't at least try to get Mark Hamill there'd be riots in the streets.
@@havcola6983 I feel like Hamill would play the real joker or the one that RedHood offs
i think they should have the Jokers voiced by the actors who best resemble those versions.
The Criminal - Jack Nicholson
The Comedian - Mark Hamill
The Clown - Joaquin Phoenix
and Batman voiced by Ben Affleck who can better personify the more angry Batman.
Jason voiced by Jensen Ackles
and Barbara voiced by i dont know, maybe Leslie Grace who was supposed to play her in the cancelled Batgirl movie.
thoughts?
I don’t think that Mark Hamill would return as the Joker, since he said he wouldn’t after Conroy’s death
The slippery slope is actually a very interesting argument, people just default to it being a fallacy through poor usage. For example, you present the usual examples. However, the fact about a slippery slope is exactly what you said "you could just stop yourself."
People always immediately assume that on a slippery slope you ALWAYS slip. No. You could do cocaine and not be addicted, BUT it's a slippery slope because you always have the chance of slipping, or becoming addicted. That then makes self control harder, and makes rationalizing your addiction easier, then if you do it again, you could slip farther down the slope. It's not a fallacy, it's just often used as one.
And in the terms of killing, it's easier, essentially becoming addicted to the convenience. Not exactly the same, but it's obviously still there. So if you kill again, what took a month becomes a week job. That's really the slope there. Sure you could counter it by just drawing the line, but it's very hard to be a utilitarian about "who is exactly too dangerous to kill." Where exactly DO you draw the line of morality vs convenience. Plus, now you've created a precedent
Your absolutely right. Hell Batman used to kill on the first issues. Used a giant gun to kill a couple monster men and was fine with it. It's thematically better for him to use other methods so the writers imposed the no kill rule but if he were to kill were is the line drawn? Sure Joker should die, but so should twoface, mr zazaz, the black mask, killer croc, an argument could be made for the riddler. Penguin might not kill directly but how many people has he hurt with his crimes? The point being no one but an impartial third party as the judge should make that call
The theory still isn't that great. People use it as the end all argument when it's no where close to being such.
@@rushpatriot2866 nice argument genius 😂.
Good argument, except that it shouldn't apply to the Joker. We have a person who is known to be killing just for the sake of it. And we know he won't just stop.
Why did he ask the möbius chair a question he already knew the answer to tho?
I think he wanted to prove himself wrong.
I've always thought DC abuses the hell out of plot holes and deus ex machina... smh
He was testing the chair. I doubt Batman, the World’s Greatest Detective and the second smartest man in the DC Universe, would cheat to get the answer to who the Joker is. He just didn’t know that there were three of them.
Batman is a detective. He knew that wasn't all there was to the Joker.
I think at that moment, he wanted to be sure.
Even the smartest people in the world would test their theory again, and maybe three times. Just to be sure he was right.
and then THREE names popped up.
I been waiting for this one. I love hearing that voice talk for an hour.
Gay
Say no homo
Same. I saw these being pumped out knew it would be joined eventually.
@@clintabernathy6881 how do you know there gender
Simp
I would love a fully voiced scene of where Batman talks to the Comedian in the police van.
Get Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill on the phone.
@@tysargent9647If only we could. 😟
This story is amazing, the art is incredible. I love dc comics
I missed these classic comicsexplained summaries. OG Rob Corp remembers.
An arguement you can make, is that Batman stands for order, and the justice system.
By killing the Joker, it’d be doing what the Joker wanted.
It would also please the Joker, as batman finally treated him as important. ( killing him but no others)
Not to mention with the Lazerus Pit, and what would happen to Batman publicly. He could start being framed for other murders, quite easily. ( As the Joker wouldn’t let that act be known)
Though I would to see a series like that. To see the entire city turning on Batman, the good & bad sides. And hearing “ you finally murdered him?! After countless died every time he escaped!”
What he would do, and how it would be a stepping stone for Gotham changing / a new hero. but because Batman is too popular it won’t happen.
I hate when people say DC is dark, when you have characters like Batman and Superman lol.
It would be great to see DC evolve, as being told the same stories with very little character growth / change is boring.
We all know Batman will live, he won’t kill the joker.
Killing joke was amazing because they broke the taboos which was great.
Him Calling bat girl his adopted daughter.
Me remembering the time bat man boned bat girl in an ally.
Is that canon now?
We dont remember that.
I don't think that's cannon
That movie isn’t canon. Trust me a lot of fans were really glad it wasn’t canon.
On the roof top..lol
I'm stopping at 15min in, buying the book & reading it THEN coming back to finish this. It's that good so far.
..."When's the last time you missed?"
I LOVE Geof Johns, and Fabok is in the top 3 or 4 artists of his generation. Gotta get this book.
let me just apologize for just finding you my good sir. This has been the greatest dive into the story. You have gained another fan, follower, and intrigued reader!
Rob, that could be a quote brother, “the slippery slope excuse is just a way to absolve yourself of responsibility”
Except that's like saying "we Know you better than you know yourself" ... If Batman kills the joker HE knows HE wouldn't stop there. We would be assuming it'll be easy to just not kill after joker.
@@FBJoestarXP That's basically what I assume, Bruce Wayne's psyche is already on thin ice as he dealt with serious trauma as a kid. He knows that if he killed, he wouldn't stop.
Complaining about the slippery slope is the quickest way to demonstrate to the rest of us you don't understand the character on a fundamental level.
I love Batman’s suit! It is so Burtonesque! Like a continuation of the films but in modern era! Great Job, Rob!
Lol joker is that crazy heartless ex that only wants to ruined your life till you admit your nothing without her 😅🤣😂😭
literally and figuratively, yes
That's literally the best description of the joker ever.
The best intro ever! The "and yeah" is gold! 😂
Better than I expected. And now I have to reinstall Arkham Knight. Well done.
Wow. That 3 Jokers story was amazing.
Just commenting for the algorithm
Kinda wish Alfred, Dick and Tim were in this as background characters. Dick's grief as Jason's older brother, and Tim's feelings as the successor. And Alfred watching his family fall apart.
25:00 - With the Gambling argument, it's not absolving responsibility as much as knowing yourself, in Batman's case.
People who become addicts have certain vulnerabilities. Gaps in their mental armor that would protect against addictive behaviors, mental illnesses, and falling prey to fallacies. Batman knows himself well enough to know that he IS vulnerable to a mental illness that would lead to him becoming a serial killer. He has those gaps, and he knows it. Exposing himself to murderous intent could send him down a path that he literally can't come back from on his own before he kills a LOT of people.
Jason Todd also has vulnerabilities, but these were beaten into him first by Batman, then by the Joker. Like a fish being carried by the current, he is being swept away into a life of murder. He had the capacity to heal, mentally, spiritually, emotionally, but as Batman points out, he hasn't healed correctly. Does that mean he is absolved? No. But it does mean that how he got there is not entirely his fault, and that understanding, perspective, and compassion is what is needed if he has any chance of correcting before he kills again.
I know I'm 2 years late to this comment, but just wanna say that I completely agree with your analysis of Batman. That's what I thought, too. He must see himself in the Joker, in the others, but he's cognizant of his own character flaws and weaknesses. I am, too, which is why I totally get this logic. There are things I would avoid to do at all costs because I know myself. I know I may not be able to resist. Batman is 'incorruptible' because he knows he _is_ corruptible.
All of the costume designs and just the art as a whole look absolutely perfect
What if suggestions:
Rob did Beyond Omega Level: RESURRECTION MAN
Thane and Grail had a baby
Ultron led the CiS in the clone wars
Gorilla Grodd got Cerebro
Galactus devours the Star Wars universe
Joker becomes a Sith
Braniac invaded Cybertron
Abeloth invades the marvel universe
Gollum got the orange lantern ring
Ra's al Ghul got the Mandarin Rings
Galactus in star wars would probably stomp everyone
@@ssj4galactus probably? the strongest weapon in star wars destroys a planet, while galactus just eats them as snacks
@@danielsnake23 you forever about abeloth brodie, and the strongest weapon is something that moves planets at lightspeed
OMG Rob, this is one of THE BEST stories, you took me back. Love your storytelling, thank you
I'm so glad you do these videos. I've been wondering about the 3 jokers since Batman got the chair but I have not had any time whatsoever to read the comics involved.
Thank you.
I am a huge Joker fan and this comic book this story like The Killing Joke is a masterpiece and in my opinion and in my mind will forever be the foundation of The Joker’s story it is just phenomenal I love it
No.
@@you-5-iver804 yes.
Take a shot every time Rob references that one Batman Begins scene
Lmaooooo I thought I was the only one.
This was one of the best videos I've ever seen in a long time,keep up the good work
Okay so Death in the family basically adapted that bit where Joker calls himself Jason's papa eh?
"Sharks don't roar". Jaws: The Revenge disagrees
They should
I…have mixed feelings about this story. It has some fantastic scenes; Joker breaking Jason while he’s tied to a chair, ‘it hurts when I laugh’, pretty much everything with Joe Chill, showing the final Joker knows Bruce’s secret and gave him closure just be number 1 in Batman’s list of foes, many other. Brilliant scenes that will stick in my mind for a long time.
BUT…there’s so many plot holes. Even for a comic. How did the world’s greatest detective not figure out his arch nemesis was three different guys? Ignoring that the have different faces, do they have the exact same build? Height? Shoe size? Shouldn’t they do fingerprints and DNA swabs for every crime? Does a dump in ACE chemicals mess up all that too? And how the hell did they organise? Did two just sit back and wait whenever one was in hospital or prison, and avoid going out? That doesn’t sound like a Joker thing to do, wait for someone else to break out. And was Harley sleeping with only one of them or more? Cause she should have noticed something!
And I’m definitely against the idea of Batman knowing the Joker’s identity. Especially if he’s known it for years! If hd did, why ask the Möbius chair in the first place? This counteracts years of cannon! Not to mention all those internal monologues where he’s admitted he still doesn’t know despite searching for years! And if he did, why wouldn’t he tell Alfred? The man knows who Superman is, why not your greatest foe?
Ugh, I really want some of this to be cannon. But until they figure out at least some of those issues, I’m going to act like it’s an elsewords story
Perhaps in that moment he just realized what he already knew.
For all intensive purposes the joker could easily do some makeup and prop work to make his face look like theirs if need be
@@Someguy1213 I can believe that - Joker's brilliant enough to disguise himself successfully several times.
But I can't believe three people over decades could match their exact bodies consistently enough to hide it from The World's Greatest Detective. Batman figured out who was wearing the Batgirl costume in seconds during No Man's Land just by recognizing her footwork. How'd he not notice even subtle differences about his greatest enemy?
If they were were clones or from alternate universes, sure, but three men of similar age, height, build, facial structure, dental structure, and everything else? That means all three of them would have to be at least as brilliant as each other, not to mention outsmarting Batman.
@@a.wadderphiltyr1559 Touche'
When it comes to the "slippery slope" argument with Batman, I just have to say one thing.
Batman is not a regular person who COULD only kill once.
He has too many issues. Bruce Wayne, for all intents and purposes, us a high functioning psychopath with acute paranoia. A lot of orphaned children have seen their parents die in front of them. Not all of them dress up like a flying rodent and devote his life to crime fighting, especially with all of the assets at Bruce Wayne's disposal. He has his rule and he needs his rule, or else he doesn't know where the line is anymore. It would feel too good for him and it would be too easy for him. The Batman Who Laughs is a prime example of what happens when Bruce let's go. He makes Clark kill his family with black kryptonite. Now sure, he could PROBABLY kill without a problem, but he knows he's too dangerous to let himself kill. What IF he liked it too much? What IF killing became no big deal to him? To ensure he doesn't, he makes the rule and makes sure to never break it... intentionally. That would mean it's okay for him to judge if people die. It means he gets to play a higher power that he's afraid of. It means that it could lead him down a road he never wanted to be. Why do you think Bruce basically shrugged off Jason killing the first Joker? Because not only did he know it was the right thing, it also meant that he didn't have to do it. As long as he sticks to his rule, he can never be compromised, exactly like the Jokers were trying to do to Jason. He needs it to know where not to go, because he's broken, because he can't do it himself, because he WANTS to.
Glad someone pointed out how character specific that slippery slope argument is.
Plus (sorry I'm late) it would be a mess for the justice system. A vigilante kills a high profile terrorist. It would mean a trial, in which batman would have to unmask, and you know where that leads to. It also means becoming a fugitive, and you know gordon would pursue him, and even if he doesn't get caught, that makes the process of getting evidence from the cops and investigating crime scenes harder. And that is what would happen in a sane world, but in Gotham the courts and cops are corrupt. What if the murder of the joker is found legal, and then copycat vigilantes kill normal, 'out of necessity' criminals, or criminals trying to justify murder with legal loopholes. What if the cops do the same, and get gordon out of the way to be able to. Many possible logistical problems arise from killing a criminal.
THIS story, should have been a trilogy of movies.
Batman: Tragedy (Red Hood and Endgame - a Joker Dies)
Batman: Joker War (Jokes and Riddles)
Batman: Three (as in Three Jokers)
Each one played by different actors.
Jim Carrey, Willem Dafoe and Jack Nicholson.
Those are my three actors, you pick your own.
Side note: I love how, even in Joker's fantasy, he knows his family wants to get away from him.
You put a lot of work into all these videos. It's appreciated. We've talked a few times on instagram and from then until now you have delivered. Awesome work and you'll never get a thumbs down from me
"Kill you? What would I do without you. You make me"
- *Dark Knight Joker
Joker said “you complete me”
complete me *
The Criminal: The OG Joker, and most likely the original Red Hood.
The Clown: Second Joker, the one who killed Jason Todd.
The Comedian: The most recent Joker, the one who shot Barbara Gordon, the last surviving Joker and the one everyone thinks of when you mention the name.
Listening to this man geeking out is an absolute joy
It’s so awesome to know that I’m not alone when it comes to this stuff.
I'll be honest, I never thought the beat version of the "slippery slope" argument was that Batman couldn't stop himself, it was that the people's perception of him would be a slippery slope. That, if he just ran up and killed Joker, people would start being incredibly divided about Batman himself. Some would view him as the hero who did what needed to be done and would expect him to continue killing because now there's a "new most deadly villain" and other people would start viewing him as another villain. Both would be murderers, Batman's would just be for his reasons while the Jokers is for his. Whereas, if he doesnt kill anyone, there is a clear distinction.
Also, why does Batman have to kill him? Why hasn't the city, or state, or federal government given him the death penalty? Do they need more evidence? Just like it's not cop's job to execute bad guys (even though some think it is), it shouldn't have to be Batman's either. If the government deems them beyond rehabilitation, Old yeller that mutha trucka.
The problem with that is that there is no way that there isnt a kill on site order low key attached to the Joker. Like bring him in dead or alive. Also you are legally in the clear to use lethal force in the defense of your life or the life of others if all else fails. Batman is straight a murderer, the man maims people regularly, he beats henchmen until they stop moving -thats a coma btw thats called beating someone into a coma, he ziplines people to ceilings in multi storey warehouses by their feet and just leaves them there. Have you ever seen Batman call an ambulance? If it's not seen on panel it doesn't happen. Beat cops show up after Batman leaves and have to determine whether Batman has been there or if a whole other crime happened.
He makes sure he gets an insane plea so he can never get the death penalty against him since he is legally insane
Joker is considered insane therefore unfit to stand trial hence why he is sent to Arkham ASYLUM
Best dc short run in years, great story and art.
Barbara Gordon: what are you doing step bro
Jason Todd: ?
Comics explained: Noooooooooooo
I don’t see how anyone in the bat family actually sees each other as siblings
Nightwing dated batgirl
And they weren’t raised together
I agree
I remember something about Damian saying he's the real son
But Batgirl is not included in that thought
@SLUG BOY that’s what I’m saying a couple might . But stop making it the same as incest if people who’ve known each other a long time hook up or date it’s so childish. This is comics
@SLUG BOY and also that’s literally Batman’s adopted son and his real son being friends which I doubt Damian ever had. Different then people dating
I dont think you understand what slippery slope is. Slippery slope is that you want something, you want to do something, it's a craving in the back of your mind.
You used the example of one drink, being afraid of becoming an alcoholic. It's more accurate to say, you desire to get drunk, that one drink makes ALL the difference.
I'll be honest. When i saw "boss joker" or "original joker" his serious look reminds me of Heath Ledger's joker. And then going through this only solidified my comparison
As a matter of fact, Heath Ledger's Joker was heavily inspired by Joker in his first few comics from the early 40s, which were the original Joker's earliest appearances.
@@bodd-energon5502 really? So He was always supposed to have a sort of villainous seriousness to him then. Heath Ledger still has one of my FAVORITE portrayals of the Joker
This story brought me a feeling of closure I never knew I needed.
For a group of super rich, hyper intelligent, seasoned detectives and fighters the batfamily wear outfits which can be penetrated by common edged weapons, have easily manipulated utility belts, and tape notes to doors. Just...wow....
48:53 “Right now I am nothing but undefined chaos”
That would be such a good line for Heath Ledger’s Joker
You're right. This is the Red Hood I love.
The way Rob argues against “the slippery slope” shows that he really doesn’t understand it in relation to Batman.
40:30
well, he doesn't stop at that level of logic
The thing with slippery slope is, it's not as directly applicable as you are considering it.
It's actually the fact that he knows that human life is extremely valuable. Once he takes away the chance of being a better man from someone, he's crossing that line where he loses all his self-respect. The circumstances he is in, he will be forced to take someone's life again. And, if he has done it before, if he has lost that self-respect, killing that guy won't be that big of a deal as the first time. That's what he's afraid of, i.e. he's afraid of losing that self-respect for the values he hold dear.
The thing is, by allowing joker to live and kill more people, he's inflating his own ego thinking "I'm better than this" when he's really not. If he really understood the importance of a human life, then saving many lives by taking this one life won't be this big of a deal.
FFS, that's exactly what soldiers are for.
No cap, Rob I dont have time to read the books anymore. But because of you i get my fix while I'm working. Thank you
Character Explained/Beyond Omega Level: Resurrection Man
Forever he lives
Up bump
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Bumping for prosperity
One day
I love this for the ode to all the previous Batman stories but specifically for its ode to the first Michael Keaton movie
so when the joker was fantasizing about having dinner with his wife and kid, he just imagined them looking exactly the way they really do? i suspect The Joker knows his family is in Alaska, and has seen them recently, cause the kid even has the same hair cut.
I think his wife is more dangerous than Bruce knows and I think that a good twist would be if she lied and deceived Bruce into thinking that she was a helpless victim.
I'm still not over those Joker vs. Jason panels. That mask is so awesome.
Honestly I like Geoff johns as a comic book writer but after seeing how he treated the justice league cast it honestly disappoints me how such a cool dude can be so cruel and evil to other people honestly. Plus him and whedon ruined justice league so it’s best if he just sticks to comics tbh
I think the no-killing rule only makes sense when u consider the fact that, upon knowing that Joe Chill is just a desperate man who was forced into making an awful decision, Batman looks at his entire rogues gallery as well as any criminal he sees in the exact same way. He sees the people he fights as just that - people who have undergone some kind of incredible suffering, however, they were never as fortunate as Bruce because he had Alfred by his side, money, and guidance.
When seen this way, Bruce's viewpoint makes sense - most thugs Batman comes across are regular people who don't need to die, depraved killers like Zsaz clearly suffer from some kind of mental disorder, killer croc was born with a defect and treated like a monster all his life which led to him becoming one, I could go on. But then you have the Joker.
There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with him - he doesn't have a name, no known loved ones aside from a pshchiatrist who he manipulated and (at least in this book) a family who is terrified of him, and nobody at Arkham can diagnose him with anything. The Joker is, to me, the personification of evil - no matter how much you say that there's a reason for everything, you can always be laughed at by the idea of pure evil. In this regard, and unlike all of Batman's other rogues, the Joker is irredeemable, but Batman's philosophy refuses him to believe that he isn't also a human being who has experienced immense amounts of pain, and therefore, Batman can't bring himself to kill him.
I personally find this much more satisfying than the "slippery slope" argument because, do you really think that Batman of all people lacks self control?
3:24 Also one of the best lines from Batman Beyond Return of the Joker after Joker tortures Robin and learns who Batman is. "And kind of like the kid who peeks at his christmas present I must admit its sadly anticlamatic. Behind all the sterm and batarangs you are just a little boy in a playsuite crying for mommy and daddy. It'd be funny if it weren't so pathetic. Oh what the heck I'll laugh anyway!"
@33:17 SPOT ON! You called it 3 years ago! The new Joker: Year One series just established that the “Three Jokers” are just different versions of the same person.
You forgot to mention what actually lead up to Jason Todd being killed off in the comics. DC didn’t want to do that but decided to leave it up the readers so in issue before the one where Jason is killed in the back of the comic DC put a poll for for readers to vote for vote on whether Jason would be killed or not. obviously we know how that turned out.
I found it pretty interesting that DC literally waited until the very last second to decide this. And because of that they had to of wrote two stories for that issue one where Jason lives and one where Jason dies just in case the vote went one way or the other. The poll idea was such a great idea because I think that it actually made Jason a better character later on when he comes back as the Red Hood. By writing the story so that Jason is just getting beat to death mercilessly and Batman finding out where Joker took Jason only to arrive just as the building Jason was being held in blows up.
That failure ended up adding a lot of depth to Batman and really caused emotional turmoil for him because at the end of the day he’s developing super self destructive tendencies because he back helpless to stop what happened that made him feel the same exact way he felt the night is parents died. That he was still just as weak and helpless as the boy in that alley all those years ago.
God damn do I love Batman’s stories, their just so many of them and Just about all of them are fucking great!
Really good explanation my guy! Felt like I was nerding out with you
This was an amazing video, so glad I caught early!
The better argument against Batman killing (and one I thought came up at some point in some incarnation) is that once you kill, you're a killer. It doesn't matter if you kill one or one million. It doesn't matter if you do it for good for for ill. It only takes ending one life, and to make that decision, even for a single life, requires rationalization. It requires becoming an arbiter for who lives and who dies.
Even if you only kill one person and decide to never kill again, the grim calculus you applied to your victim will always weigh on your mind, and it _will_ influence how you view others. It _will_ affect your thinking about who is and isn't worthy of mercy. Even if you never kill again, it _will_ poison your mind.
_That_ is the burden Batman tries to avoid. It's not a matter of whether or not he could stop killing once he starts. It's a matter of whether or not he wants to live with making that decision even once.
I can't believe I didn't pick up on this before but TKJ Joker is wearing a" Large Marge" Trucking hat well Paul Rubens is the actor who played Pee Wee Herman In the movie Pee Wee's Big Adventure where "Large Marge" gave Pee Wee a ride in her truck....well in 2008 Paul Rubens made an appearance on Conan O'Brian announcing that he had been cast to play The Joker in Christopher Nolan's film The Dark Knight. In a later interview on Conan Ruben's confessed to loving the art of the lie and recounted a story about telling the press he'd heard everyone in the room were getting mopeds HAHAHA Ruben's also remembered everyone being disappointed when that didn't happen.
Man... there will never be a better Batman story than this will there?😢
Quick question: Who is more the master of prep time, Batman or the Joker? Joker always has plans that are steps ahead of Batman most times.
They have to plan in different ways because their goals are different. Joker doesn't care how long it takes to do what he desires. And he has a singular focus. Batman has to deal with things in the moment or short term to protect Gotham and the people in it.
Now THAT is how you write comics. Wow, well done, Mr. Johns.
The Joker eating cat food is the best thing ever! 18:57 Lol
I am so glad my TH-cam auto play stumbled upon this. I don't even know what I was listening to before this
At some point Batman, you gotta put Joker on a T Shirt and live your best life
I agree with you on the slippery slope argument....BUT with Batman he has said that if he killed he would essentially lose himself. Batman knows himself well enough to know what killing the Joker would lead to. That's why he won't kill the Joker. He explains it well in Under The Red Hood.
Late to the game but that whole letter to the door that Barbara never gets calls back to Romeo and Juliet where the letter Juliet sent about her plans never reached Romeo and pretty much caused the double suicide.
Tragic
Ok I agree with the slippery slope argument in the case of batman because batman is insane. I feel this has been pretty well established at this point that batman really isn't that far off from total insanity so he fears that if he kills once then he'll enjoy it or he'll consider it a solution and he will fall down that rabbit hole
The slippery slope argument can work for Batman if you believe that Batman isn’t of sound mind (and let’s be honest he really isn’t)
To use your own reasoning, sure an average person can have a drink and not become an alcoholic, but if an alcoholic sits down and haves a single drink, they run the risk of not being able to stop.
If Batman never made his rules, he would’ve been a supervillain/anti-hero
thats actually a great explanation batman is clearly not well in the head only an insane person would become batman after what happened and he is basically moved purely by ptsdso i can totally see him completely losing it after he kills someone especially the joker
This storyline is like... a Top 5 comic of all time. It proves they're not all superheroes and world ending danger. There's real emotion, and pain, and characterization. It tells a real story.
This was an awesome walk through and helped me understand this so much more. Thanks!!
Ok this is a great story to me. But i love the art work on these books.
Rob your voice is so awesome you could make a phone book interesting
Interesting stuff...!
Still wondering when we will see the Batman: KnightFall, KnightQuest and KnightsEnd series on the channel. Future Video?! I think it’s more relevant than one might think.
You are really great at these summaries, never stop never stopping.
Wait... why did he ask who the Joker is if at the end he says he knows who he is?
Exactly what i was thinking!
My guess? He knew something was off, and he might have even assumed there was a new Joker out there, but he didn't know for certain, and he never would in any reasonable timeframe, so he needed the absolute certainty afforded by something he knew to be effectively omniscient.
If Batman told red hood and batgirl which joker was the real one theyd think he also knew the Jokers identity bc there was literally no other clue to which 1 was real.
This was an amazing video and Batman story. Keep up the excellent work Comics Explained.
I *despise* how the writers use Batgirl as basically a chic to fling around at any bat-family member they please. At this point, across all continuities, she's had some kind of romance with *every* original bat-family member, because the writers don't know how to do anything with female characters besides have them be trophy wives or shot.
Had to stop the video after the 1st book and wait for the trilogy to show up. Great read! I really enjoyed the video also.
What if: Batman had to operate solely with his intellect and connections?
This story teased us with it then never did anything with it.
I love how in the end of it. It was a story about closures.
I think years later people are going to regard this as one of the greatest batman/joker stories
Silver Age Joker voiced by Jeff Bennet
Killing Joke Joker voiced by Mark Hamill
And OG joker voiced by John Dimaggio
Would be cooooo
I have such a love/hate relationship with this story....it started AMAZING....and the hype was 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 but idk about the ending...🥺 Maybe it should have been more issues....?
Or not three jokers
@@itsnotme987 I wish the 3 jokers all survived tbh, it's infinitely interesting. The criminal honestly should have probably been the one to survive though if any of them, but i had my doubts that would happen when they gave the one all the big moments in jokers history.
Happens with a lot of Geoff Johns stories. Idk if I've ever really, really liked the endings to any of his arcs. They always just kind of fizzle out.