Dominator Carb On A Dual Plane Manifold. How Much Is The Power Difference?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 มี.ค. 2024
- I put a dominator carburetor on a dual plane intake manifold. I dyno both with a 4150 and the dominator and I share the results.
406sbc
11.2compression
AFR 227 competition port heads 1121-ti
AFR dual plane intake 4812
Erson solid roller cam 260/270 .685/.685 108lsa
1050 Holley sportsman dominator
Websites: www.wengines.com
Email: weingartnerracing@gmail.com - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
David Visard has said a number of times they need to make the RPM air gap with a Dominator flange , Thanks for qualifing his theory
Think of something like the 2R. It's a rec port intake for BBC, dominator flange should be the standard
Ok thank you for proving what I have thought for many years. But I’m 74 not building or racing but did since 1970 I hope people GET you if not too bad for them.
Mike Caruso
He worked with some big name racers amnnd companies.. he has had a stroke bro
In the late nineties I had a well-tuned 454 bracket motor. 12:1, 0.637 solid lifter cam, closed chamber rectangular heads.
Edelbrock C-427 intake with a Barry Grant 850 on it.
A friend of mine was needing some money and he had a Barry Grant Dominator, brand new, and I bought it from him. I was planning on building a bigger motor after the season. Just for the heck of it, I bought an adapter plate and put it on the 454 just to see if it would take it. I was expecting it to be too much.
It picked up almost a tenth in the 8th mile. 60 ft time was actually faster, and more MPH.
Was quicker and faster across the board.
That was just using a plain old adapter plate.
That was a VERY pleasant surprise
Just my most recent experience; I spent big money on a up and coming big name custom spec’d 1375cfm carb for my larger cubic inch race engine. It was spec’d with .126” primary & secondary jets and .028” high circuit bleeds. Even after working our way up to .140” primary & secondary jets as well as .026” high circuit bleeds, we were still seeing 13.6-13.8:1 on WOT dyno pulls that we were aborting. We couldn’t get this carb to give enough fuel. The signal the carb was getting from the engine was also out of wack. As a last ditch effort, we pulled a way too small Gen3 1050cfm dominator out of the box and slapped it on. If I remember correctly, it has some where around 92-96 Holley jets, which convert to .109-.116”. The signal was immediately better, we picked up considerable hp/tq everywhere and the AF ratios came right into range. The custom carb builder wanted us to drill out a set of jets to .146-.148” to see what that would get us. However, we felt that the custom carb was so far “out to lunch”, that doing so would just be throwing a bandaid on a bigger problem. That custom 1375 carb has now been sent to another carb builder, who’s been doing extremely well in the industry for decades.
I love that kind of testing!
Keep up the good work
Another excellent video
You are an excellent automotive engineer and instructor!!!!
Very interesting, great test.
Mark's carburetors are pieces of art! I've never seen one before or know how it runs but that's a beautiful carb.
In 2007 for the EMC, we noticed the more cfm we had the better it scored. Hardest part we getting it to pull fuel at 2500 rpm. Good test Eric we always learn something from you.
Arlene Vanke made a dual plane dominator flanged intake for the nascar hemis back in the day, Indy cylinder head has the rights and is reproducing it. It just works.
Should be interesting to see what happens on BBC
I'd like to see a dominator on a bbc with a old holley C454 intake manifold
Another great video........and who'd a thunk it
Great video. Makes me consider a dominator even if they're a little pricey.
The Dominators meter the fuel so much better.. good stuff
This video confirms what I did to
My 3 circuit 1050 I drilled out the
Primary and secondary circuit
On the air bleeds essentially
eliminating them now works
Like should left the stock high
Speed bleeds alone
I agree on 2-circuit Holley's for most applications. I hsve seem some large cubic inch (598 & up) engines that are street driven benefit from a 3-circuit, but I use a 2 curcuit on most everything. I like Holley carburetors & run a Ultra Dominator 2 circuirt & it costs me judt shy $1300 delivered. Thats inflation for you😢
Great info!
That was fun. Its interesting that the dominator, once sorted, doesn't get twitchy about jet sizes on your 406 - surprised me for sure.
Eric I appreciate your knowledge. I get that you don't understand the triple bleed, but it is actually easy to do, you don't just adjust one jet, you adjust both at the same time keeping the ratio, or skewing the ratio to make a curve.
I work on other carbs like webbers and this is the same deal here.
I'm an automotive cert 3 technician in Australia who has spent 16 years in the trade.
It would be the same with, say 5 jets per hole, you adjust them all at the same time and make a curve of adjustment across the lot.
K.
Thats some good info, i was a little lost on the 3 circuit stuff also , THANKS !
@user-mm1se7gy7e it's not exactly that simple though.
I wrote that a little too fast.
If the jets come out in the same area then that is true, however if they are a progressive stage jet system then you would have to adjust them individually.
But that is only for mid throttle response.
Hell ya! , everyone thought I was insane for even suggesting this and this validates the theory!
The dominator has such a better venturi design you can get away with massive cfm without loss in low rpm signal & fuel draw and the dual plane accentuates the signal yet more.
Love your channel bro, Edelbrock made a BBC Rec port dual plane cast for the dominator way back in the 70’s or the 80’s???? Help me out guys. Eric, I’m 57 years old and I wish I could remember the part# That being said that was one one helluva combo on 427/454 with a 250- or 500 shot of N2O no need for a giant hood scoop, very stealthy back in the day. Again ,I’m reaching out to all the BBC guys that know about this intake.
Nuts just nuts
I used a Dominator on a 454 GM snowflake Dual plane about 1991 and it ran very well. Only hade the square adapter. Hadn’t even heard of tapered spacers yet. 😂
I’d like to see a dual plane engineered with longer runners and less bends. Where hood clearance isn’t a consideration. That dual plane 406 as is with a dominator would be great in a jet boat.
Eric. You are a head porter. Airflow conouseur.
Take a look at the dominator and other carby.
Which one has the most attractive and assistive bellmouth?
For the air to get in faster and more efficiently.
Its obvious.
I'd like to see the results at the track!
Huh!
Dominator and tapered spacer:)
I ran a 1050 Dominator on a 180° high rise intake (I had to machine my own adapter) the adapter was 1.000" thick, open centered.
The engine was a 428 Pontiac,.030" out, Conp 280 Magnum grind.
4sp. '67 Tempest 3.91 gears 27" tire.
The initial carb was an 850 Holley, tuned to the car.
Swapping the 1050 for the 850, and minimal tuning, the car was consistently 0.32 seconds quicker than with the 850. The car was much stronger on the bottom as well as "up top"
That's a massive jump!
That's funny because on Engine Masters the tapered spacers gained both torque and horsepower, but they used a normal 4150 without all those other funky spacers made for the Dominator.
Waiting on my 2 circuit sportsman 1050 now. Paid 1028. Probably send it off to Mark after I try it on the Altered.
Hey Eric, you should try one of those taper spacers that you say does not work well on an RPM in a backwards kind of way. I have found on several combos they work better than a 1" open spacer, however for them to run well on a dual plane, you need to turn the spacer upside down, taper facing the carburetor. Seems backwards and goofy, but nearly 20 years ago I found nearly 15 hp gain with only 2-3 ft/lbs loss just above the load-in on a 10.25:1 355 with production canadian 906 iron vortecs and a LT4 hotcam. I had a marine version spreadbore rpm manifold and a Q-Jet and used a 1" taper Hamburger Q-Jet spacer upside down. Went from ~395 hp to 410 hp and gained about 10 ft/lbs of peak torque. Torque went from 420 @ 4,000 to 430 @ 3,700. Was eye opening. The taper upside down outperformed an open center spacer on that combination.
I feel like the taper spacers work better upside down because like the Dominator to 4150 adapter, having it upside down, the taper is increasing velocity and helping ram air and fuel into the 90* turns in the dual planes plenum. Probably also helping mix the air and fuel better with the increasing air speed as well.
The upside down taper may also be acting as an anti-reversion plate during split overlap, providing a cleaner airflow signal to the carbs venturis. Just a theory as to why it works if you feel like exploring it yourself some day when you are running a dual plane on the dyno again someday.
I have tested them upside down before and it lost power.
Awesome stuff but why did it work so well?
That pretty so if it is the tappered spacer helping is with if there's a dual plane with a dominator flange that is open and not like a 4 hole spacer or maybe have a spacer that is open I don't know just trying to see if different types of spacer with the dominator does any difference on a duel plain ir no spacer at all just a dominator flange
Do you know the port size on the AFR4812 manifold?
The tunnel ram with dual carbs seems very disappointing in comparaison, being how much bigger it is and the price.
Didnt the ported promaxx 215 make more with the milled trick flow single plane?
Great info, I was wondering if y ou keep a record of manifold vacuum during dyno runs? Reason being that vacuum below 28" mercury gives you a percentage of cfm that the carb actually is flowing. I'll bet that the manifold vacuum with the dominator was much lower.
No probably should.
Jets has HVH for $154.99 + 14.99 ship❤
Damn! I’ve been wondering if I should convert my 850 4150 for the procharger or adapt to 4500. Only problem is I already bought the hat and I have the 2” HVH for the 4150. I noticed a difference when I added that to my SBC with a Victor old school I ported. I bought it from somebody used but it looks like he put it on and took it right off. I feel like it was a blem because I had to add a couple layers of weld to the bottom of the ports only on one side because the 1206 over hung it. I did mill it because my Datt 215 heads were milled many times but it shouldn’t have been like that. I should’ve took pics to show you. I have to look through my phone I actually might have some
Btw I had to subscribe to you again. That’s been happening with a few channels. I think I mentioned it to you before but it’s very odd. I’ve been with you since day 1
Hey Eric,
Tim here.....i saw the dominator adapter tossed on the dual plane (for illistration purposes)...but noticed a WALL that the fuel charge sees on the primary side (cuz of adapter, dual plane, etc) yet made STUPID #'s......how is that wall NOT putting fuel out of suspention???....i dont get it, dynos dont lie....i'm curious as to what you did....altho u already told us.....i saw a big wall/flat area that the A/F charge wud see, comin out of the dominator, (primary side is all i cud see) yet BLEW away ur #'s....cud u elaborate any more??.....we spend all this tim on port matching, and gettin the intake/head transition lovely, yet a WALL, didnt stop this dominator from bein a BAD ASS!!!..any thoughts wud be appreciated.....sorry i'm so long winded, shot had to be said.. TY sir!!!.....btw, i wore my EWR t-shirt to work today, and was proud!!..haha.....PEACE to you sir!!
So you're running 80 primary and 90 secondary jets? And primary power valve? Also even on the BBC? Thanks awesome videos
I can’t remember what it has now but from memory it’s 4jets out all the way around and it has the stock power valve in the front. I don’t remember if it had one in the rear.
@@WeingartnerRacing thanks again sir
Have you ported any dual planes for more top end?
big block test !!!! with a dual plane
Rpm Air Gap with that spacer and a 1050 dominator?
More lunch time fun! the 1050 can be switched to 750 cfm? i wonder if that would make it even more streetable?
It’s streetable now with the 1050.
I picked up an 80's era Edelbrock C454 4500 dual plane at a swap meet last winter. It looks like an early Performer RPM or the stock 163 high rise with a dominator flange. I cleaned it up and milled the divider down to 3/4" (it was about 1/2") like we do on factory GM 163 intakes. I also picked up a nice $300+ 4500 4 into 1 1.5" tapered spacer cheap from that Holley clearance sale last spring. I intend to run it with a 1050 on a 509 street/strip combo and test it with/without that spacer. This test plus Vizard talking about the need for a dominator big block dual plane, gives me even more hope for this combo to work like I think it will. Lunati Voodoo Gen VI cam and some Victor Jr. Chapman CNC rec port heads we had here (circa 2009 ported Performer RPM castings). I think it will rip.
I just picked up a C454 myself, these intakes are deadly with 2 250 horse NOS plate 1150 on top no giant hood scoop needed gonna be a 496 roller 81 Camaro
@@hilleryclifford1350 that should be wicked. I'm going NA for now but possibly ProCharger down the road.
Does the turbine hat add any restriction? Looks you didn't have it on with the dominator?
No we have tested both ways
@@WeingartnerRacing I was interested in seeing the cfm numbers for the Dominator to see how much it went up.
The CFM the air hat is reading seems low, which would make the calculated A/F ratio off. I dont know for sure, but appears low to me.
It wasn’t hooked up
Maybe you should mass produce dual plane dominator manifolds? And it would probably make Even More torque if you got rid of the spacer & gap and used an 11 or 12 hundred cfm dominator instead?
The spacer seems to make it work.
I like the older Dominator because it is easier to tune.
The tunnel ram test with 2 1000 cfm carbs would loose air speed in comparison, would like to see the same test with 2 650s. What difference do you think we would see?
Loss of 10hp with smaller carbs.
@@WeingartnerRacing Thanks for all your hard work, great channel. God Bless
Is it the dominator, or is it the annular booster. Try testing 4150 with an annual booster. Back to back. I have seen and mostly use annual carbs on the street because of the extra mid torque they make as long as they are paired with a non oil splash heat soaking style intake manifold. Any thing with an air gap. I haven't used straight or downleg boosters since.
The 4150 had annular boosters
Dam. Dominators king. Time for me to get a 2 circuit then. On to the next level. 🙂
I see the annular 4150 now. I was in the shop assembling a 440 while I was listening to your video today.😊
Have you tried 2 Doms on an SBC tunnel ram yet? Cant remember. We have hooked a vacuum guage to the plenum to measure carb restriction. On anything turning over 6500 the lower we could make that vacuum number the better the power. Also learned the early 1050 Dom with the ring at the top consistently offer less restriction than the fancy Gen3s with the radius tops. Not a huge vac diff between 1050Dom and 4150 1050 Brawler but the Dom destroyed the torque of the Brawler. We have seen an even bigger Dom advantage with methanol fuel. Seems to be throttle bore size and annular boosters create some magic!
Always heard you can’t spray nitrous through a fuel plane, is that an old wife’s tail? I mean an intake runner is an intake runner?
I wouldn’t put nitrous on a dual plane but that’s me. I have no plans to test that.
Engine masters did it once, nitrous was fine on a dual plane
if you doing anything but drag racing and wide open racing the three circuits better especially for Streetit's a lot easier to get the fuel mixture to not fluctuate On A Streetcar the problem is is people try to tune them for racing and wide open throttle they don't think about that intermediate circuits not for tipping it's a cruise circuit for off idle and part throttle application I can literally take one of them and make it go from a straight idle and climb a hill slowly transition into it under power and it works fine if tuned correctly but you can't get with a two circuit