Jon Bellion just exposed the dark side of the music industry. (my reaction)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 มิ.ย. 2024
- I wanted to react to this and dive deeper into what Jon is saying here. This is reflected throughout the industry and there are FEW artists/producers/etc that are in the industry and actually happy and thriving.
Its sad that such a talented artist disappears for 6 years because of this. This happens more than we think.
This means all of those artists that "Fell Off" might actually not be falling off!
They are just stuck in bad deals and can't release more music without losing money or something similar.
I wanted to react to this and dive deeper into what Jon is saying here. This is reflected throughout the industry and there are FEW artists/producers/etc that are in the industry and actually happy and thriving.
Its sad that such a talented artist disappears for 6 years because of this. This happens more than we think.
This means all of those artists that "Fell Off" might actually not be falling off!
They are just stuck in bad deals and can't release more music without losing money or something similar.
This is the reality of the industry. Now all of us need to learn what we can in every area like you said Kyle and start skill stacking as much as possible! I push every one of my artists to stay independent, don’t sign deals.
That's the thing, even when writing the thing of saying people saying your name, but what happens and what's it do to you when you're still a no name?, there's nothing left to do, then what the hell do you do, just move on and look crazy telling people you have written something.
Hell yeah most people are still working bullshit jobs and can't even get time or help to work on music, and that doesn't help either not knowing enough about the terminology or the technical language or layout of music, I write and I know what sounds good.
As a producer/artist that lives on ramen noodles, I felt that
Broooo 😫😫😫
You mean “in”
Word me too
I’ll check you out!
@@skizzyskitzoand also you! Lol
Artists in every field have been screwed forever. Only solution is to get legal smart before you start
Even with a perfect contract if your sales start to slip you’ll be screwed over
@@kidzni disagree, if you are “Legally Smart”. You can figure out a deal that says You’ll have to pay me x amount of money to make music every year for the next 5 years, and if it goes well, you could renew the contract type shit. You just gotta know who you dealing with. You dont recite poetry to someone who is not a poet.
Or go independent
This is just ridiculous. The labels are robbing both the producers and artists
Producers are literally getting robbed lol
Shout out producers with dying fires and 1000's of crazy beats that will never see the light of day because we had to get real jobs and just make beats now as a hobby.
I share beats all the time created by others I made a channel just to share the beats people make or they're taking the time to show people how to construct them so they get credit and are recognized for the work they do. Their job and skillet is underrated.
please keep this video up forever.. this is sad and really eye opening and needs to be up to watch to raise awareness of how this stuff actually goes. realizing what the mainstream industry actually is, may change so many mindsets towards it.
I didn’t think John’s interview could become more valuable and you made this more valuable . Thanks for everything Kyle . Great music and great knowledge
Jon* but understandable
As a 19 year old at Berklee trying to get this off the ground while living off the salad bar at the caf this was so eerie omg
I worked in a massive $20m studio for a while, which meant I worked pretty close with all the big labels, and always told every artist who was independent and talking like they want to sign to not ever sign to a label. I unfortunately witnessed a handful of artists who were on a fast rise get their careers wiped away just before they were really famous enough to support the growth without the resources of a label. All for one petty reason or another. You can't quit on the label, but they can drop you like nothing, and whatever that "sign on bonus" was, they're still going to be making you pay back
Well no, few comments on this bro, an “advance” can be “recouped” but it cannot be “repoed” a label can & will make back the money from your advance until you make money BUT they can never take back the physical money they “give” you, that’s why it’s always told “Negotiate for as big as an advance as you can” if you buy a house, a car, they cannot call the bank & get that repossessed, those are now yours, the label can never touch them! Few months ago I spoke with a band, who never really did anything after signing, but they still live in the houses their advance paid for
Secondly, here’s the problem! Statistically there have been more successful signed artists in the last month alone, then successful independent artists in the last 50 years, THAT’S CRAZY!!!! I get saying “Don’t sign to a label” but the thing is, realistically you have a BETTER chance of making it after getting signed, then making it independently (and that’s backed by statistics) it’s a shot in the dark both ways BUT your chances percentage wise are SO MUCH better taking your shot with a label! Your advice should’ve been “Be financially smart with your advance” at least 50% should be put back into your music & or invested into businesses, stakes, stocks, stuff that’ll make your advance back in double so you can then invest even more into your music
The problem isn’t necessarily “the labels” the problem is the artists not being financially literate with “what” the labels give them! I know artists that are sleeping in motels in tours, I know artists that are bunking in the tour van, I also know artists that want a 5 star penthouse for the night
Who’s getting the best bang for their buck in the long run?
Moral of the story, making it in music is a shot in the dark, percentage wise you have a better chance of making it signed, then you do independent & that’s just how it is! Play your cards how you want, but if there’s an 80% chance I’ll land on black, versus a 0.7% chance I’ll land on red, you better bet I’m betting black!! You feel me?
Look, here’s the thing! Nobody is “truly” 100% independent, I’ve actually never heard of an artist who is, wether your signed or not, you still may have publishing deals, marketing deals, album deals, single deals that workaround labels even if your not on an artist contract, & I’ll let you in on a secret
99% of “independent” artists (I say that loosely cause of what I just mentioned) who are successful, are successful because they gained notoriety, finances, & education on the industry WHILE they were signed before their contract ended
You have a much better chance being successful independently after you’ve already been signed & your contract is up, then being successful independently without ever working with a label
this is a trap so many artists fall into. these companies and managers take advantage of naivete and artists current situations to lock them into some shit theyll never profit from 99% of the time. glad ur showing more in depth what these deals mean as some people still dont know how they REALLY work
It’s crazy to think one of my favorite artists and one so damn influential, whose sound literally blew my mind the first time I heard it and influenced YEARS of my life (and tons of other artists) is getting chewed up like this. He’s big but he should be HUGE, labels should be kissing his feet lol.
I know bro this is how i felt.
Watched the Jon interview earlier today - was pumped to hear your input. This, for me… was probably one of the best videos I’ve watched of yours. Sincere and conversational. You’re growing man… it’s special to see you develop musically and professionally. I really appreciate your contributions to the music production space. 👊🏽 You’re a gift Kyle. God bless you.
Thank you glad you enjoyed my take
I've been saying this for years.
Independent artist is the only sustainable way forward as far as I can see.
it's so true. either that or small labels but once things get too big for their own good, it's a wash
Him being done and just trusting and receiving the blessings is the ultimate outcome for him.
Wish it was like that for everyone, but most people won't be so "lucky". Good for him sharing everything.
As much as social media has it's cons, it's finally given artists a chance to succeed without labels.
I'm grateful that I live in this era and that I'm able to do what I do without the need for record deal and seeing this and Jons interview has already backed up how I feel about this industry.
Great freaking breakdown and reaction.You killed the articulation and examples. what a serious conversation to be had.
Bellion has always been straight forward. Dude is a legend. Never changes
im so glad i came across this video. really opened my eyes onto how important it is to be independent now
Kyle I love the insight from you and the jon bellion interview . I’ve always known some insight but this opened my eyes
That's why I'm gonna solely make it by myself and be not expecting help from anyone. If other people can make it, then I can make it. Wish y'all all the best, all love♥️
You can do it!
@@kylebeats2 thank you Kyle! Really appreciate that 🖤🙏🏻
This is one of the reasons i decided to go solo as a music producer work with few artists but mostly work on my craft on spotify beats remixes covers till i got used to work alone than work with artists as an independent music producer
The last part was so emotional....
Kyle, you oughtta have Lecrae on a podcast. He owns reach records and has been a steady artist for 20 years. I think he has some good insight on these subjects
I love lecrae
his music was so good to i still listen to his music everyday. Hoping for new music.
So sad, Jon was one of my favorite artist/producer growing up! Always felt he represented true creativity and talent. So glad to to see him speak up!
His All Time Low song helped me through my most difficult time in my life😢
@@teoigi3247 likewise!!! 🙏🫶
Love this exposure of the industry forreal so shout outs to Kyle, Jon and everyone else involved bc it's up to us to redefine the business side of all of this
real talk, great video. Thanks bruh
Would like to hear a more in depth conversation between you and Curtiss King on this topic. Dope video btw 🤝🏽
Kyle, is your main job video-making? What aspect of your brand brings in the most capital
The content that we needed.
yo kyle welcome back
19:13 ty for supporting artists. I def won’t be bashing on anyone for “falling off.”
"If that is the case - what does my record contract look like" - oh man - mind blowing 😮
Great video Kyle.
I remember watching a video of Russ and he was talking about getting a loan from the bank and using that for an album etc is what he tends to do and gave his reasons for it.
It was a very interesting point he was making because a “deal” from the label is just fronting you money to pay back, and the banks you can get a better interest loan along with owning your music.
His point definitely makes sense if your someone who has at least a little fan base.
But it makes me think now doing something like taking a loan from the bank and then tapping into Direct To Consumer can pay that loan off faster than it would going thru the label.
Shits very interesting and the industry is a wicked game.
Reaction videos are the best ❤❤
I heard one of the creators of spawn in an interview said that if something didn’t feel right he would ask, “if you were me and you were offered this deal would you take it”? And if they even had a moment of hesitation he would decline immediately.
Great insight from Jon and additional points from you Kyle!
Thanks!
Jon Bellion was super influential to my production style in the late 2010s. Really made me change my entire perspective about how I approach music
*Streaming is dying...DTC (Direct to Consumer) is the wave now. IYKYK*
🔥great interview
Corporate interests really took advantage of the industry at a perfect time. It has forever been "but a dream" to create music for a living, and until the internet came around, it was impossible to put laws and/or unions in place that protected the creatives, due to the scarcity/aspirational nature of being an industry musician. Actors were able to make slightly more progress with organizations such as Sag-Aftra, but I would attribute that to there being more working actors than there are working musicians. These companies have since grown so big that they buy/bully their way into advantageous positions, be it "standard splits", algorithm favorability with third-party platforms, or the entirety of their record deal structures that are designed to have total control over the artist. What we need (and this applies to many non-creative industries as well) is reform, and with the ambiguity of music creation in today's age, definitions, terms, and revised industry standards in regards to crediting one another is an absolute must. Additionally, there needs to be legislation in place that sets limitations on the abuse of leverage, specifically in reference to label/artist contracts. Contracts and splits that are commonly deemed "predatory" towards artists and writers are SO bad that we have been duped into thinking that "good" or "standard" contracts are any better. They are not. I am thankful that people like Kyle and JB are speaking up and educating, because the only way you can tell if something is sh*t is by knowing what sh*t looks like beforehand, or by tasting it for yourself.
Jon Bellion aint get enough recognition, absolutely amazing producer gon go down as one of the best hands down.
The more artists become aware of the corruption in the industry, the more they will stay independent. And the more successful independent artists there are, the less assets labels will have. You said in the video that there has to be some sort of solution but I think this IS the solution. Spreading awareness of the corruption. Labels need artists to be successful. But it's been proven that artists don't need labels.
here’s the problem! Statistically there have been more successful signed artists in the last month alone, then successful independent artists in the last 50 years, THAT’S CRAZY!!!! I get saying “Don’t sign to a label” but the thing is, realistically you have a BETTER chance of making it after getting signed, then making it independently (and that’s backed by statistics) it’s a shot in the dark both ways BUT your chances percentage wise are SO MUCH better taking your shot with a label! Your advice should’ve been “Be financially smart with your advance” at least 50% should be put back into your music & or invested into businesses, stakes, stocks, stuff that’ll make your advance back in double so you can then invest even more into your music
The problem isn’t necessarily “the labels” the problem is the artists not being financially literate with “what” the labels give them! I know artists that are sleeping in motels in tours, I know artists that are bunking in the tour van, I also know artists that want a 5 star penthouse for the night
Who’s getting the best bang for their buck in the long run?
As a producer/artist doing everything for free right now, investing money with no returns, I feel this. This early I just gotta capitalize on my passion and keep going I guess
I think it’s crazy how labels try to convince you that they can get you out there and get people to listen to you, just for you to end up paying for the marketing and ending up with the same amount of an audience as you started
Jon is a legend
a reckoning is coming
As a producer artist i approve this message
This is one of the best videos on the platform
It's really not that complicated... there are soooo many great artists and producers out there. If somebody is willing to work for those 3 points, they will get the job. Hit songs and big artists come and go all the time.
Jon Bellion is one of my biggest inspiration in music, so damn creative! Can't believe artists have to go through this trap.
I'm making a serious stab at rising up in the music world.... but it's so hard to connect with people making music that are serious about it and treat it as a business. It seems too many of the "music art" spaces are just hobbysts who feel like thinking of money is antithetical to doing art.....
only thing I got from this is I’m not the only one who fidgets w my aperture light lol
Love your reaction! The world needs to hear and see these stories more!!! The life of celebrities aren’t won’t it seems! Ultimately, we must find our security in Christ! I also have getting into writing music and trying to produce! Would you be willing to collaborate?
We've been saying this for years! Finally people are seeing the truth
I actually wrote a whole research paper in college dealing with the topic of labor exploitation in entertainment and creative industries. You're trapped in an endless loop of, "I'm going to take this bad deal because it's going to further my career." And the culture around these industries is designed that way. They give you the tiniest amount and gaslight you into thinking that "this is what it takes to make it." and "I should be so grateful to have this gig." It's top tier endgame capitalism tbh. It's like this in every industry and line of work except with the music industry it's capitalism on steroids.
As an ordinary working man, I can apply this problem to every job in the world. We need to be more independant and start taxing the rich!!
hes inspired alot of people, him, logic and grvty inspired alot of my early work
What can we do :/
Now I'm starting to understand why we lost Avicii 😭
my mom knew ab bellion when he was knew glad i kinda grew up listening to one of the goats
Jon has been my favourite artist for many years and always will be
We all think that we're smart enough to make some smart investments, for future gains but surviving in the in between is where it breaks you down.
Between Jons interview and Russ interview on Flagrant it’s all there.
Maybe I’m missing something but why sign to a label in 2024 or beyond? They’ll promote your music for you? With social media and streaming platforms I don’t think I would ever want to sign to a label and give up the control over my art.
its hard to turn down $100,000 or $1,000,000 when its in your face!
It’s harder to get exposure by self releases nowadays if you don’t already have a somewhat stable fanbase, especially with a lot of artists around the world it’s pretty hard to stand out
There are a few reasons you would sign to a label, fronted capital is one, notoriety/“official-ness” is another. There’s a kid that him, I, and another kid were the biggest highschool rappers when we were in highschool. This guy got signed by a label when the whole “unique rapper” trend was going on with the labels and he is Asian. He instantly had industry connections at his finger tips, he got to go to top tier professional studios essentially for free, they fronted him like 50k or something like that and suddenly he’s not just “dude making tracks in his basement” now he’s a local legend who is a professional so when he comes to town people are bidding for his performance instead of him doing pay for play or free shows. THESE DAYS (unless you’re lucky like that) you’re better to stay independent and work a deal with a distributor or work up your own distribution. That’s because these days you have to ALREADY be “trendy” enough to have enough inflow to even get their attention that you might as well ride that on your own unless you just hate doing everything and want it all outsourced and you don’t want to find all the people to outsource the different jobs to.
Capital upfront to know you can “survive” off just music is one.
Another is that labels have doors that can get opened alot quicker than doing it yourself if even possible by yourself really. I can see some reasons that are beneficial but at the end of the day… Creating that leverage is what will get the best deal from labels and that’s where it seems to be the best. Just my opinion
This is exactly why we created our private community for musicians! To show them the real contracts, have entertainment lawyers teach them, have platinum producers mentor them and to protect each other from the side of the industry that just wants to use and abuse artists.
😃
I’d love to know more about the community!
great vid
My favorite artist ever
It's crazy how there aren't baseline laws for profit sharing in the US. This is the reason people who actually do the work get screwed in every single industry by mfs who don't work.
Curtis King says direct to consumer. Hes pasionate about this and its what we should all be doing
Merch sales not even owning your own brand basically is what its like
Now i see what james blake meant by him going solo
I already know labels are bad, so should people stick to a distributor? What should you do if someone is in a situation like this?
Artists and producers need to unionize. they're the root of all the money in the music industry. labels are nothing without them
Thanks for linking the original video, leach
search bar is located at the top of the screen right in the middle. hope this helps
I don't understand the part at 15:30 to 16:00, like the math, it feels like we skipped a bit.
Basically you get a 5k advance + 5% of the song's royalties, so why isn't it simply recouping the 5k+ i assume interest, and then you're making profit?
like i just don't understand why it suddenly jumped at 15:40 to that number of streams in order to recoup the 5k... a small video to explain how the record deals math usually works and generally things to look out for would be appreciated bigtime!
Smoked some w* ed got high, listen to jon bellion, drive to nashville/kansas city to make music. Mannnn good times i miss him
I don't know why people don't speak out about music business, while the young producers needs guidance. Everyone keeps on saying make good beats until you get placement or upload on beatstars
*Ryan Leslie* is also a great producer too
Jon Bellion is my favorite producer and artist of all time
dude John is the goat. His journey makes so much sense when you find out how the industry works.
They have systems of distribution to the masses.
And now we have the same potential access.
The labels own everything.
This is my story too, until I decided to convert myself from a producer to a producer/artist/label hybrid and start my own big catalog. I'm now touching M's and this eco-system allows all of you to skip many steps in this broken niche and take full control of your destiny and money, and keep 100 'points'.
Touching M's? What does that mean?
Bro thats keeping people held down, thats some loan shark type stuff.
which label is jon signed to tho cause surely not every label is like this
The Points thing seems like an American thing, I'll be damned if I ever let anyone reduce my percentage & my effort down to something so Trivial.
19:00 "when you found all this out, were you in the middle of a tour?" "yeah, I was in the middle of a breakdown"
Labels only leverage is money : That's very flase, they got priviledge from their power, they got the contacts, they got relations in the media, they got relations with social media, they got relations with the biggest entreprise in the world : Microsoft, Apple, Amazon, Tecent, Epic Games, Black Rock and so on ...
It’s always so funny how the most important part is ignored so much
There's the thing of looking at everything as investment, the more you're working and the better chance you have to make it its a hella ugly grind.
Damn I fuckin love Jon Bellion, I gotta watch this whole podcast!
yo kyle congrats on the kid
ty bro!
Stay independent yall
Don't let what happened to Tory Lanez happen to you bro.
1 giant bank with super high interest that changes daily.
I'm literally eating Ramen noodles right now.
Look at NF, Colliche, Ivan B, Gremlin, Mike B, Witt Lowry etc.
Independent artists are going to win this time round
JON BELLION?? YOOO!! ON KYLE BEATS?? LETS GOO
Jon needs to read up on the music business if he thinks publishing is just for radio play. It's the songwriting side of the half (the other half being the master). Publishing includes public performance from radio, venue/bar music, etc. It also includes residuals from streaming and MOST IMPORTANTLY, placements in tv shows and movies (synchronization). I've literally never heard songwriting shares called "points." And if you are actually writing on a song and still are receiving 3% of songwriting, you are either doing something wrong or not actually songwriting (i.e. creating melody and harmony).