EckhartsLadder Look up on the Star Wars Guidebook to Vehicles and Vessels. Them two star dreadnoughts are there and they’ll show you how the size of them two hopefully really are
Eclipse still looks like it may very well be 2 or more times the volume of the Executor, which according to the likes of Fractalsponge is the most important size statistic. Volume determines reactor size which determines power output which determines weapon and shield strength.
I was never bothered by the slightly shorter Eclipse. It may have been shorter, but it was so much beefier. It's a bit like the difference between a rapier and bastard sword. No one thinks that a bastard sword is less lethal just because it's a bit shorter.
cloudftw113 Oh you haven't seen anything. Ever heard of the Imperium? It would've been an Ultra Star Destroyer as big as the Death Star. Its ventral hanger could easily hold the Eclipse or Executor.
"Makes me wonder if the Emperor was compensating for something" Well according to a screen cap from Dark Empire his clone body at least seems to be noticeably lacking in that area, of course that could have just been censoring
Chris sonofPear Like many Star Wars EU ships, the Imperium was a fan creation. It got close to making it into the EU, but it never did. Even if it did, it still wouldn't have been built. It would've remained in blueprint form. swemergence.wikia.com/wiki/Ultra_Super_Star_Destroyer
I love how the Eclipse is slightly shorter than the Executor, it makes it seem like that 15 to about 20 km long is the largest ships can be without being seemingly wrong. The eclipse, as you also said, was also more massive, and to make that ship as long or longer than others would bake it seem way to big and unwieldy, even for Palpadank. The 17 mm long ship fits just as fine as well, because it does have less weapons and armament than a Executor, other than the AXSL, (axial super laser).
When I first learned of the of the Executor up scaling I actually felt a little bit disappointed it was now longer then the Eclipse. I felt the Eclipse was supposed to be something of a size we couldn't even fathom like the mega star destroyer.
This way the Eclipse feels like a proper upgrade to the Executor. A well thought out and more useful example of it's class. It actually uses the size to mount a big gun, and has the girth to be able to basically ignore turbolazer damage to its surface. Its like the HMS dreadnought of Star Wars battleships. I'm suprized not every example of it's class mounts superlasers afterwards.
I was around when the original movie was released. Shortly before Empire hit the theaters, I was in 1st grade. Four out of five days, we played Star Wars with the swings as Tie Fighters and X-Wings, the Merry-Go-Round as the Falcon, and the slide as the Death Star Trench Run. One kid had one of those xtra-large Boba Fett figures with the eye you could look through and he seemed life size to us. Relative scale of various Star Wars props was not something we discussed. Ships were the size of the toy and relative scale was determined by Kenner. The Holiday Special was as canon as the feature film. But if your channel had been around then, we may have never even gone outside to play. Good episode!
Lucas said in his first thought on the Stat Destroyer it would visually appear to be six miles long. Then they went down to about 1.5. I was around in 94 and the Eclipse was thought to be roughly twice as long as the Executer and far larger in overall mass.
The Yuuzhan Vong vs the Dark Eldar. Zann Consortium vs Jul Mdama's Covenant. The Separatist Alliance vs the Rebel Alliance. The Mandalorians (Mandalorian Wars) vs the Swords of Sanghelios. The Covenant vs the Eldar. The UNSC (post war) vs The Rakatan Infinite Empire.
I can only provide information on 1 and 3 so I'll do those. The Vong are way more numerous than the Dark Eldar, the problem is whether or not they'll be able to reach Commoragh since it's a location in the Webway, a quarantined section of Warp. So I imagine it'd be a stalemate or the Vong win the besieging them by blockading all the Webway gates The CIS should win against the Rebels, they are more numerous too and have a greater focus on frigates and fighters the Empire did, allowing them to effectively strike the Rebels
@@inactive1187 1: Agree. 3: Unsure but probably. 5: Not sure if I agree. The Covenant seems to be more organised and on a similar technological level as the Eldar. 6: I don't think I agree. The UNSC seems to have a superior navy and more well equipt ground forces.
you know when you say it that way it makes it odd to think of the difference between a super star destroyer and a death star is only 20 30ish times as long
My impression of it, at the time, was that the Eclipse was twice the mass. If it were twice the length, that would make it almost 20 times the mass of the Executor. The Eclipse is huge and intimidating either way.
Echkart, I have been reading nearly half a dozen of the books you recommend in your videos (Thrawn, Outbound Flight, etc, although not the Thrawn trilogy, sadly.) and I have to thank you.
Nah, I think that 17.5 is a good number. It's little bit shorter than the Executioner, but it's much more massive and has the Death Star laser so it's a good trade off.
Yeah, it looks like it is easily twice the surface area, so it's displacement is easily 4 times an Executor, so it follows that it would have a much higher power out put to weapons and shields, along with more hanger space for fighters and troops.
Hi, i worked at West End Games at that time. My only thing to add was even then five miles seemed short and friends at Star Wars Technical Commentaries started the friendly banter to upgrade the size of the Executor. By the way, you should pronounce it EXecutor. Not EXECutor.
I never cared that it became smaller in length for it’s volume and surface area is so much bigger. This lets it accomplish its goal of being a massive super weapon and more physically imposing. It’s massive prow is a good example of unique and great design that sets it apart from the others.
I remember those days, I was a kid just getting into Star Wars when the EU started to blossom. I still have several of the reference books that cite the Executor class as 8000 meters and when that was changed it was a little confusing. I think one of my friends was the first to find out the new length without realizing it was changed which made it worse when I'd pull one of the books saying, "Says right here 5 miles.". Ah, the days before the internet was much of a thing. Admittedly the Executor looks much bigger during it's intro on screen so after the initial confusion and debates and the new sources were confirmed it was easy to accept the change but that process took several weeks if not months (I forget exactly, it was around 15 to 20 years ago).
In my opinion, If you think about it the Eclipse is still bigger than the Executor in terms of just sheer overall size, not just length. Sure the Executor Is massive at a length of 19km, but the Executor is flat compared to the Eclipse, posing a lot more bulk than the Executor
I actually greatly appreciate this video. Over the years I've spent countless hours trolling through Wookiepedia, and I always found it a little odd that the _Eclipse_ is considered so oppressively powerful and unimaginably huge when it was actually shorter than the _Executor_ . This just solved a 20 year quandary of mine. 😅
It wasn't always the case. You can even compare the changes made to its wookipedia page and you'll see at various points it was 900km+ and the sources. It was about as contentious as to the size of the Executor with it being 8km long, then 12.8km long to its current size of 19km.
See also Theforce.net Technical Commentaries page. UNLIKE Saxton's look at the SSD, eventually the 900 km size was retconned down to 200 km (in the new Encyclopedia of Starfighters book) Although the trench run, and initial model scale of the first Death Star, handily supports the 160 km scale there.
There was SOME truth to the 900km version of the second as we saw the Executor crash into it and it didn't seem quite as round as you expect from a 19km long ship hitting a 160km long sphere battle station. Granted that did open up the idea that the Empire almost finished a death star 900km in about 3-4 years vs a 120km station that took 20.
I remember my grade school library had a book of almost every Star Wars vehicle. I'm pretty sure it was the essential guide. It was there that I first learned about the Eclipse, and it's been my favorite Star Wars ship ever since.
Eclipse is my favorite Super Star Destroyer. Wasn't it retcon for a while that they were two separate ships. Super-class SD was 8km Executor-class SD was 12-19km
It was a retcon that never quite stuck, as I recall. The implication also seemed to be that the 'super' class existed only on documents, rather than real life.
A Mandator_mk2 has 8km; original Executor - Darth Vader has 13.55 km in comparation with inline filming model of ISD which represent 1.6 km; however super laser _ Executor mk2 really may described as 19.2km but it's not Darth Vader Executor.
I think I like the Eclipse being smaller than the Executor. It's kinda like how Vader is bigger than Palpatine, but Palpatine more powerful than Vader.
Honestly, the Eclipse is one of my favorites... But my ultimate favorite KDY SSD has to be the *Sovereign*-class. The little sibling to the Eclipse. Not quite as powerful, but... Still enough superlaser power to detonate almost any ship instantly. Also, I like how Palpatine finally understood what Thrawn was speaking about, when it came to more mobile firepower. Sure, the Eclipse is massive... But it is no Death Star.
Yes the ship should be bigger. Your video makes lots of sense. I think just 1.5 to 2 times bigger would be about right. Some of the stats for the ship don't make sense as you make it bigger though like the fighter complement or the weapons qty, but they could be increased as well.
The Eclipse in the Thumbnail, and it’s, in my Opinion, supposed to be “True Size,” Is very cool. Like, imagine, a Group of Mercenaries, the Top Hat Mercenary Confederation, and they decide to say “Screw You” to the Hunters of Night, and then the Master of the Hunters of Night, comes in with a Huge fleet, with the Master Night Hunter’s ship being the Eclipse class, and it’s 2.19 times Larger then even the largest of the Top Hat Mercenary Ships, that being The Tyrant, Heinrich Von Ludwig’s Executor class Super Star Destroyer. Anyways, I have done the math. The 19km long Executor Class, multiplied by 2.19, gives us 41.6. Essentially. The Eclipse would be 41.6km in length. To put that in Perspective, the Supremacy is only 13km long, but 60km wide. I Must See the Eclipse in Canon, and at its true size of 41.6km.
Do you have any idea as to why in ship-to-ship combat ion cannons were not utilized more? Wouldn’t it be most practical to disable the enemy ship’s shields first, then pelt them with turbolaser fire, or at the very least be fired in conjunction with the turbolasers? Also, another ion weapon related question, what’s the difference between ion torpedos and mag-pulse missiles like the ones on the TIE Silencer? Don’t they essentially serve the same role?
Apparently they were more expensive in the clone wars. There was the Malevolence, and some Munificents. Invisible Hand was once labelled with 12 ion cannons, but those turned out to be the deck guns/mass drivers.
wilkor 1792 They completely fry (shutdown) a ship’s electronic systems. Engines, shields, just about everything. My question was why were they not utilized more often, given how useful they are.
The eclipse in my eyes was always a flagship craft , I always thought that it would have 2 superstar destroyers flanked by 10 standard destroyers and 4 anti fighter cruisers in its armada the combination of that, a full compliment of fighters and bombers escorting 5 world devastators, would form a unstoppable force that would polverize any planetary defence force
I kinda like the idea of retconning the Eclipse to be larger than the Executor in the sense that if the latter ship is at 19 km long, then the Eclipse standing at 38+ km would be completely appropriate, considering it's got a bigger profile from the side, and thus be worthy of the title "Eclipse".. Great video Eckhart!
Ahhhh This explains my confusion I knew I had read in places that the Eclipse was x2 as long as a traditional Super Star Destroyer Thanks for clarifying
I remember when the comics came out. Yes, the eclipse was supposed to be the biggest ship ever, much bigger than the SSD. So I agree it should have been scaled up.
Harvester ships wins. It's leagues bigger than the executor and even the Yuzhaan Vong Worldship or the Supremacy. It's also extremely durable as it just skids on the surface of the moon.
I thought for a long time that the Executor was 8km, and the Eclipse was 17km as you said, i do remember when this comic came out, i was big on Star Wars at the time, it was next level
Nice video sir Eckhart! I believe they should've upscaled the Eclipse-class Star Dreadnought too. I agree that it also should be about a little over 20km (at most maybe 25km vessel). In fact, I was a little surprised when I first learned that it's a little shorter than the Executor-class. But hey, even at it's current size, it is definitely still a capital ship/super weapon to be reckoned with.
@@egoalter1276 That's not the point, and yes, in Star Wars, that can very essentially be the case. 17.5KM is sensible, but again, that's not the point. It should be nearly 40KM since the Executor had been pushed up to 19KM. Lore being changed has to accommodate the adjacent lore that was based off of it in some way, like the Eclipse needing to be far larger than the Executor from the very start, and that extends to now. 17.5KM bias is a preference, not a logical extension of Star Wars lore.
I seem to remember that the Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels in the 90s and the New Essential Guide in the early 2000s both established that the Executor was 8 km long, while the Eclipse was about 18 km (maintaining the 5x ratio). However, I don’t know how accurate the sources were for the Executor’s size. Also, while I never did any independent measurements, the Executor does seem to be more than 5x longer than the Imperial class Star Destroyers around it even when perspective is boating the Imperials relative to the Executor. I could believe that the Executor is between 12 and 19km and that the Eclipse is simply shorter but far more massive.
Correct. Supposedly, the tower of the Executor was mean't to establish it as eleven times longer than the ISD overall, but the detailing was different from an ISD's, and could be interpreted as even larger. Curtis Saxton made the most recent measurement early in the 2010s, establishing the bridge tower as 289 metres wide, and the overall ship length as just over 19 km.
In canon the Executor and all other Super Star Destroyers are 19km long. The Eclipse was mentioned in the Aftermath:Empire's End book but it could just be a regular ssd, it's not described how it looks
I always thought the Eclipse was 21 km long. I remember reading a source somewhere that stated so. also at 3:37, isn't the Super-class a different ship?
Isn't the Eclipse just straight up non-cannon now? Maybe we can just say that in the Dark Empire cannon it's larger than the Executor-class star destroyer.
It's canon and apparently it went missing during the galactic civil war and it was later found by the first order it was then torn apart for parts to make the supremacy
I personally love the idea of it being roughly 40k kilometers, despite how impractical it would be. I think it would truly like up to its name, as it would quite literally eclipse most ships, and even smaller planets.
Good breakdown, I despise the constant changing. I have some other issues out of the original books I've been considering. So Thrawn reunited the remnants of the Empire under a solid force. I've heard some say he had several Star Destroyers, when in actually it was hundreds of course if not thousands. One has to keep in mind the need to maintain a defense of already held territory. Additionally, seeing as how Thrawn had access to all the special archives such as the location of Mount Tantiss, etc. Why the hell did he not go capture the Black Fleet. The Sword command had a significant number of ships which Thrawn must have known about to include at least the one Super Star Destroyer. Now we know that it was supposed to comprise over 300 vessels from keel to final construction in addition to those assigned or had reported in for repairs. Thrawn must have known of its existence and bringing the Yevetha to heel along with the acquiring of the shipyards would have been a massive boost to his warfighting capabilities. Something overlooked. Or let's say the Maw Installation and Admiral Daala. Even though superweapons were not his style, Thrawn would have certainly made use of these items and the manpower within although 4 Mark 1 star destroyers may not been worth the effort. But what of the other supposed Warlords that were out there and should have if they did not flock to Thrawn which surely he would have made them. Harrsk, Teradoc, and others that were holding onto significant numbers of ships and personnel. And the biggest WTF would be the fleet at Byss. Given Thrawn's access to records and knowledge, it is far fetched that he would not have used these tools to go after the enemy from the more powerful variants of Star Destroyers to items like the Galaxy Gun. Even had he not had access to this information, given his savvy, I think he certainly would have figured it out since he know where the capitol and everything remained. Additionally, you have the new Star Wars complete hack of events that are ridiculous. So the First Order returns from the Unknown Regions stronger than ever before right? Somehow never clashed with the Hand of Thrawn/Chiss Ascendency? Somehow never found themselves engaged by the Ssi-Ruuk or Yuuzhon Vong? I find it beyond ridiculous that a fleeing force would somehow enter the Unknown Regions having sustained massive losses and yet come back more advanced and powerful than ever before.
I’d love to see a video dedicated to how powerful the ‘spirit of fire’ ship from halo wars is. I ask this as it confused me as it held off a banished carrier and I think destroyed a covernant destroyer... so I’m not sure how powerful the shop actually is as it’s a adjusted colony ship that over 30 years old but is displayed as able to hold its ground agains much more powerful ships. Love your vids
Its the space equivalent of an LHD. Its not a frontline warship (neither is a carrier). And it didn't destroy that destroyer in HW1, it bugged the fuck out.
Bad writing. If you actually pay attention to the mission dialouge, its about holding back a boarding attempt while the reactor is repaired, and it ends with Cutter ordering "Take us out of here!". I Suppose the covenant wanting to capture the crew to use them as ignition keys for the Forerunner stuff is plausible.
Who even decided it would be a good idea to make the executor suddenly 19km and put it into contrast and violation of all previous media, including movies?
It's allegedly from measurements taken from on-screen which overrides all other sources. I'm no expert at measuring or scaling though, and Eckharts' last comment has me wondering if the 19 km was actually accurate. 12.5 km at the very least still felt plausible with the original armament and embarked fighter numbers. But at 19km you're talking a ship 3x more massive which makes the old numbers way too small, and the newer numbers made it on-par if not stronger than the Eclipse, super-weapon notwithstanding.
4:55 I don’t see why it wouldn’t be appropriate because in the absolutely awful movie known as Last Jedi (gosh it infuriates me) we saw the Mega Star Destroyer was over 60 Kilometres long so a a 40 Kilometre ship in the much more crazy and overpowered Legends timeline isn’t inappropriate at all.
I like the Eclipse as it is. It is finally a weapon that doesn't sacrifice practicality for intimidation, and actually utalizes its size to mount the superlaser.
Many calculations definitely concluded one surface mile for ISD 1&2& Tector battleships. Comparation between filming ISD metal model( in scale with Executor) and filming model of Executor got result 13550 meters for Executor's axis. Maybe ILM kept similar measures for Supremacy - length ( wingspan calculated for 60 000m but length is only Executor 's like)
Suggestions for the next video... 1. Klaxosaurs vs Reapers vs Forerunners. 2. Forerunners vs Necrons. 3. Yuuzhan Vong vs Tyranids. 4. Played Endless Space before? 5. Super TTGL vs the Chaos Gods.
I got Dark Empire when it first came out, and I honestly thought the Eclipse was smaller, just based off a perception that the Executor was more narrow and the Eclipse still looked like a smaller class star destroyer. It gave the impression the Executor was bigger. I don't remember the 10 miles long dialog.
I hate to say this, as a hardcore SW Fan, but I have to give it to the Scarab. The thing is probably a little bigger than the Umbaran Spider Tank, and subsequently have more firepower. But then if we're going off who gets the first shot then I don't know. I mean, the Umbaran Military was tossing 300 Megaton missiles at shields and barely damaging them (there own). Tbh I might have low balled the UST to the Scarab. He'll have to do a video on it. And I'm bought to go surf Wookiepeedia 😁
I know you'll get to this in the finale of the Vong sub-series. Won't stop me from going through the motions though. Anyways: Can you breakdown what is by far the largest space battle in the entire franchise? *The* *Battle* *of* *Yuuzhan'tar!* I have made this request: Seventy-two times.
The Executor may have been slightly longer but the Eclipse was ultimately still bigger overall. Look at the ship's overall dimensions and mass, for instance. What it lacked in length, it made up for in girth and overall hull mass. At least the first Eclipse did. I'm not sure on the length of the Eclipse II, but from the pictures, it has definitely lost quite a bit of weight. It also doesn't look anywhere near as menacing.
I actually like the idea that the Eclipse is not the largest ship. The Executor class is designed to run tactics and organisation for a whole fleet, it is more or less a moving starbase, The Eclipse is a warship that was designed to blow planets up. Seen in this light the size difference makes sense.
Great work. It has always bothered me that they didn't scale up the Eclipse. It was several years after Dark Empire that I learned about the change in the Executor's size, and was annoyed at what it did to the Eclipse.
I remember seeing the various arguments and evidence in the 90s. I think I have a 90s edition ships of Star Wars which says the SSD was 8km long. I always assumed the Eclipse was supposed to be about twice as long as the normal SSD, but much more massive. I think it should still be much longer than the SSD, maybe 25-30Km, just to put the SSD in its shadow.
The article I mentioned in the video: www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-mysteries-exacting-executor-measurements
EckhartsLadder
Early video 👍
It may not be longer, but it's still overall much bigger.
EckhartsLadder Look up on the Star Wars Guidebook to Vehicles and Vessels. Them two star dreadnoughts are there and they’ll show you how the size of them two hopefully really are
Eclipse still looks like it may very well be 2 or more times the volume of the Executor, which according to the likes of Fractalsponge is the most important size statistic. Volume determines reactor size which determines power output which determines weapon and shield strength.
The original page Curtis Saxton made during the debate: www.theforce.net/swtc/ssd5mile.html
Nothing like a little Eckharts to start the morning.
I know right
It's 5 to 7 PM over here...
It's morning somewhere in the world.
IKR🎉 Just Woke Up
I was never bothered by the slightly shorter Eclipse. It may have been shorter, but it was so much beefier. It's a bit like the difference between a rapier and bastard sword. No one thinks that a bastard sword is less lethal just because it's a bit shorter.
Makes me wonder if the Emperor was compensating for something...
cloudftw113 Oh you haven't seen anything. Ever heard of the Imperium? It would've been an Ultra Star Destroyer as big as the Death Star. Its ventral hanger could easily hold the Eclipse or Executor.
If so, he compromised on the 0-60 time.
Sources on the Imperium? I thought it was a fanship...
"Makes me wonder if the Emperor was compensating for something"
Well according to a screen cap from Dark Empire his clone body at least seems to be noticeably lacking in that area, of course that could have just been censoring
Chris sonofPear Like many Star Wars EU ships, the Imperium was a fan creation. It got close to making it into the EU, but it never did. Even if it did, it still wouldn't have been built. It would've remained in blueprint form. swemergence.wikia.com/wiki/Ultra_Super_Star_Destroyer
I love how the Eclipse is slightly shorter than the Executor, it makes it seem like that 15 to about 20 km long is the largest ships can be without being seemingly wrong. The eclipse, as you also said, was also more massive, and to make that ship as long or longer than others would bake it seem way to big and unwieldy, even for Palpadank. The 17 mm long ship fits just as fine as well, because it does have less weapons and armament than a Executor, other than the AXSL, (axial super laser).
When I first learned of the of the Executor up scaling I actually felt a little bit disappointed it was now longer then the Eclipse. I felt the Eclipse was supposed to be something of a size we couldn't even fathom like the mega star destroyer.
Although the Eclipse is still a LOT fatter and broader looking.
This way the Eclipse feels like a proper upgrade to the Executor. A well thought out and more useful example of it's class. It actually uses the size to mount a big gun, and has the girth to be able to basically ignore turbolazer damage to its surface. Its like the HMS dreadnought of Star Wars battleships. I'm suprized not every example of it's class mounts superlasers afterwards.
The eclipse was bulkier though.
Same
Same here
I was around when the original movie was released. Shortly before Empire hit the theaters, I was in 1st grade. Four out of five days, we played Star Wars with the swings as Tie Fighters and X-Wings, the Merry-Go-Round as the Falcon, and the slide as the Death Star Trench Run. One kid had one of those xtra-large Boba Fett figures with the eye you could look through and he seemed life size to us. Relative scale of various Star Wars props was not something we discussed. Ships were the size of the toy and relative scale was determined by Kenner. The Holiday Special was as canon as the feature film. But if your channel had been around then, we may have never even gone outside to play. Good episode!
Lucas said in his first thought on the Stat Destroyer it would visually appear to be six miles long. Then they went down to about 1.5.
I was around in 94 and the Eclipse was thought to be roughly twice as long as the Executer and far larger in overall mass.
Hope y'all enjoy! I don't plug it much, but you can support me on Patreon here: www.patreon.com/eckhartsladder
Vong vs Tau
Vong vs Necrons
Necrons and Vong would totally hate each other
The Yuuzhan Vong vs the Dark Eldar.
Zann Consortium vs Jul Mdama's Covenant.
The Separatist Alliance vs the Rebel Alliance.
The Mandalorians (Mandalorian Wars) vs the Swords of Sanghelios.
The Covenant vs the Eldar.
The UNSC (post war) vs The Rakatan Infinite Empire.
I can only provide information on 1 and 3 so I'll do those.
The Vong are way more numerous than the Dark Eldar, the problem is whether or not they'll be able to reach Commoragh since it's a location in the Webway, a quarantined section of Warp. So I imagine it'd be a stalemate or the Vong win the besieging them by blockading all the Webway gates
The CIS should win against the Rebels, they are more numerous too and have a greater focus on frigates and fighters the Empire did, allowing them to effectively strike the Rebels
Admiral akbar vs dr zoidberg
1. Vongs
2. Idk...
3. Seperatist
4. Idk either
5. Eldar
6. Raktan
@@inactive1187 1: Agree.
3: Unsure but probably.
5: Not sure if I agree. The Covenant seems to be more organised and on a similar technological level as the Eldar.
6: I don't think I agree. The UNSC seems to have a superior navy and more well equipt ground forces.
On 5 and 6, I think one of the big problems is one of scale of the empires/combatants in question.
This video eclipsed my view
Darth Cendius. get in the corner
Darth Cendius lol
Small sith complex eh?
And the ship eclipsed the star
🤣
So the Eclipse could potentially be a quarter of the Death Star's length . . . that is scary 🤤
you know when you say it that way it makes it odd to think of the difference between a super star destroyer and a death star is only 20 30ish times as long
Eclipse:17.5 km, DS1: 222km.
Eclipse 2: 16km, DS2: 300km
@@mirkojorgovicDS1: 120km DS2: 160km
The ship is big enough, we all know that the Eclipse is already overpowered the way it is
Even with the Executor beieng longer the Eclipse is still far more massive. The Eclipse is at least twice as thick giving a lot more internal volume
Another perfect video. Keep up the good work and may the force be with you.
My impression of it, at the time, was that the Eclipse was twice the mass. If it were twice the length, that would make it almost 20 times the mass of the Executor. The Eclipse is huge and intimidating either way.
Wait, an early morning video? AMazing!
Replicators vs a Unified Star Wars universe (313th try now, *_I._** WILL NEEEEVER EEEVER GIVE UP!!!)*
I applaud your resolve
I still support you and wish I could up-vote more than once
I love your videos about Star Wars ships
These videos keep making me rethink what super star destroyer I want as my flagship.
Echkart, I have been reading nearly half a dozen of the books you recommend in your videos (Thrawn, Outbound Flight, etc, although not the Thrawn trilogy, sadly.) and I have to thank you.
Cool! Glad to have you around to clear up stuff like this, Eck.
Nah, I think that 17.5 is a good number. It's little bit shorter than the Executioner, but it's much more massive and has the Death Star laser so it's a good trade off.
DIMITRI! FIRE THE PANZERSHRECK!
It being shorter is really not that weird given it's still massive in comparison
Yeah, it looks like it is easily twice the surface area, so it's displacement is easily 4 times an Executor, so it follows that it would have a much higher power out put to weapons and shields, along with more hanger space for fighters and troops.
This all makes sense but you forgot that this is Emperor Palpatine that is being talked about
*Executor
Hi, i worked at West End Games at that time. My only thing to add was even then five miles seemed short and friends at Star Wars Technical Commentaries started the friendly banter to upgrade the size of the Executor. By the way, you should pronounce it EXecutor. Not EXECutor.
I never cared that it became smaller in length for it’s volume and surface area is so much bigger. This lets it accomplish its goal of being a massive super weapon and more physically imposing. It’s massive prow is a good example of unique and great design that sets it apart from the others.
Plus it could ram smaller vessels an did lol
Tk4211 it could ram just about anything.
Executer: I'm bigger than you.
Eclipse: I have more girth, and besides, my front cannon can shoot a big load of.... plasma.
I remember those days, I was a kid just getting into Star Wars when the EU started to blossom. I still have several of the reference books that cite the Executor class as 8000 meters and when that was changed it was a little confusing. I think one of my friends was the first to find out the new length without realizing it was changed which made it worse when I'd pull one of the books saying, "Says right here 5 miles.". Ah, the days before the internet was much of a thing.
Admittedly the Executor looks much bigger during it's intro on screen so after the initial confusion and debates and the new sources were confirmed it was easy to accept the change but that process took several weeks if not months (I forget exactly, it was around 15 to 20 years ago).
Executor exactly has 13.55 km
In my opinion, If you think about it the Eclipse is still bigger than the Executor in terms of just sheer overall size, not just length. Sure the Executor Is massive at a length of 19km, but the Executor is flat compared to the Eclipse, posing a lot more bulk than the Executor
Eyy who needs coffee when you got eckhart to start your day.
I actually greatly appreciate this video. Over the years I've spent countless hours trolling through Wookiepedia, and I always found it a little odd that the _Eclipse_ is considered so oppressively powerful and unimaginably huge when it was actually shorter than the _Executor_ . This just solved a 20 year quandary of mine. 😅
The eclipse is still 17.5k.
Oh what
How did I I get here so early
Shhhh, you'll spoil it...
Because you are a committed fan.
Reminds me of the contention on the size of the second Death Star. I still remember people saying it was 160km all the way up to 900km.
It was 160km, the first was 120.
It wasn't always the case. You can even compare the changes made to its wookipedia page and you'll see at various points it was 900km+ and the sources. It was about as contentious as to the size of the Executor with it being 8km long, then 12.8km long to its current size of 19km.
See also Theforce.net Technical Commentaries page. UNLIKE Saxton's look at the SSD, eventually the 900 km size was retconned down to 200 km (in the new Encyclopedia of Starfighters book) Although the trench run, and initial model scale of the first Death Star, handily supports the 160 km scale there.
to me the original sizes of the death stars are the correct ones any bigger and it just seems ridiculous
There was SOME truth to the 900km version of the second as we saw the Executor crash into it and it didn't seem quite as round as you expect from a 19km long ship hitting a 160km long sphere battle station. Granted that did open up the idea that the Empire almost finished a death star 900km in about 3-4 years vs a 120km station that took 20.
A video about the size of a fictional ship has my complete attention.. HOW HAS ECK MADE THIS SO INTERESTING!?
I remember my grade school library had a book of almost every Star Wars vehicle. I'm pretty sure it was the essential guide. It was there that I first learned about the Eclipse, and it's been my favorite Star Wars ship ever since.
Y'know. Now I want to read Dark Empire just because of the Eclipse. It looks fucking cool.
Eclipse is my favorite Super Star Destroyer.
Wasn't it retcon for a while that they were two separate ships.
Super-class SD was 8km
Executor-class SD was 12-19km
It was a retcon that never quite stuck, as I recall. The implication also seemed to be that the 'super' class existed only on documents, rather than real life.
A Mandator_mk2 has 8km; original Executor - Darth Vader has 13.55 km in comparation with inline filming model of ISD which represent 1.6 km; however super laser _ Executor mk2 really may described as 19.2km but it's not Darth Vader Executor.
I remember this thing from Empire at war. The sheer size made chuckle when i saw it. It's laser made me feel like a guy with a fly swatter.
it's not always about size that make something fearful, but what kind of damage it can do
I think I like the Eclipse being smaller than the Executor. It's kinda like how Vader is bigger than Palpatine, but Palpatine more powerful than Vader.
On size I think when they say it's 2.2 X "LARGER" meaning overall size not length
Just a thought
Given that we now have an 60km wide SSD, I say go ahead and scale up the eclipse it won't be setting any precedents with it's new size.
Honestly, the Eclipse is one of my favorites... But my ultimate favorite KDY SSD has to be the *Sovereign*-class. The little sibling to the Eclipse. Not quite as powerful, but... Still enough superlaser power to detonate almost any ship instantly.
Also, I like how Palpatine finally understood what Thrawn was speaking about, when it came to more mobile firepower. Sure, the Eclipse is massive... But it is no Death Star.
I love the smell of star wars videos in the morning
Yes the ship should be bigger. Your video makes lots of sense. I think just 1.5 to 2 times bigger would be about right. Some of the stats for the ship don't make sense as you make it bigger though like the fighter complement or the weapons qty, but they could be increased as well.
The Eclipse should be up sized to 42.195 km because then running from begging to end would be a marathon
The Eclipse in the Thumbnail, and it’s, in my Opinion, supposed to be “True Size,” Is very cool. Like, imagine, a Group of Mercenaries, the Top Hat Mercenary Confederation, and they decide to say “Screw You” to the Hunters of Night, and then the Master of the Hunters of Night, comes in with a Huge fleet, with the Master Night Hunter’s ship being the Eclipse class, and it’s 2.19 times Larger then even the largest of the Top Hat Mercenary Ships, that being The Tyrant, Heinrich Von Ludwig’s Executor class Super Star Destroyer.
Anyways, I have done the math. The 19km long Executor Class, multiplied by 2.19, gives us 41.6. Essentially. The Eclipse would be 41.6km in length.
To put that in Perspective, the Supremacy is only 13km long, but 60km wide.
I Must See the Eclipse in Canon, and at its true size of 41.6km.
Do you have any idea as to why in ship-to-ship combat ion cannons were not utilized more? Wouldn’t it be most practical to disable the enemy ship’s shields first, then pelt them with turbolaser fire, or at the very least be fired in conjunction with the turbolasers? Also, another ion weapon related question, what’s the difference between ion torpedos and mag-pulse missiles like the ones on the TIE Silencer? Don’t they essentially serve the same role?
They where if you wnated to capture ship, but often it wasn't main goal
wilkor 1792 So would you say just turbolasers is to cutting butter with a knife: as turbolasers+ion cannons is to cutting butter with a hot knife?
@@dillonellis4798 ion canons where bigger version of a stunt ( or how you call that) mode in blasters. (That's how i understood it)
Apparently they were more expensive in the clone wars. There was the Malevolence, and some Munificents. Invisible Hand was once labelled with 12 ion cannons, but those turned out to be the deck guns/mass drivers.
wilkor 1792 They completely fry (shutdown) a ship’s electronic systems. Engines, shields, just about everything. My question was why were they not utilized more often, given how useful they are.
The eclipse in my eyes was always a flagship craft , I always thought that it would have 2 superstar destroyers flanked by 10 standard destroyers and 4 anti fighter cruisers in its armada the combination of that, a full compliment of fighters and bombers escorting 5 world devastators, would form a unstoppable force that would polverize any planetary defence force
Corona
Every time I go here I couldn't help but miss my dog.
I'd be interested to see a size comparison of ships from different franchises, a Covenant ship against a Star Destroyer for instance.
www.deviantart.com/dirkloechel/art/Size-Comparison-Science-Fiction-Spaceships-398790051
this is great thank you!
Some ships are harder to have consistent scale references for them though, like some of the Babylon 5 ships, or the old, 1970s Battlestar Galactica...
My question is how would the world turn without ekhartsladder
I kinda like the idea of retconning the Eclipse to be larger than the Executor in the sense that if the latter ship is at 19 km long, then the Eclipse standing at 38+ km would be completely appropriate, considering it's got a bigger profile from the side, and thus be worthy of the title "Eclipse".. Great video Eckhart!
or the Executor shoiuld be where she should be at 8KM
Which would contradict a LOT of visual footage from the films, and make the bridge windows even smaller looking than they already are...
This is really interesting. I always wondered about this. Thanks Ecks!
I love all the content of your channel and especially how you cover the ships of the Star Wars galaxy! 😃 one of my favorite youth tube channels ever.
I'd settle for more massive as that skinny SSD looks like it will snap in half at any moment.
Ahhhh
This explains my confusion
I knew I had read in places that the Eclipse was x2 as long as a traditional Super Star Destroyer
Thanks for clarifying
wooot, new video of ecarts \o/
I remember when the comics came out. Yes, the eclipse was supposed to be the biggest ship ever, much bigger than the SSD. So I agree it should have been scaled up.
I read the original comic when it was first published and from that, in my mind, the Eclipse has always been the largest of super star destroyers.
Executor Class Star Dreadnought vs
The Independence Day : Resurgence Harvester Ship 1st attempt
Harvester ships wins. It's leagues bigger than the executor and even the Yuzhaan Vong Worldship or the Supremacy. It's also extremely durable as it just skids on the surface of the moon.
I thought for a long time that the Executor was 8km, and the Eclipse was 17km as you said, i do remember when this comic came out, i was big on Star Wars at the time, it was next level
Awesome video Eckhart's.
It IS larger than the Executor. With regard to volume, it's HUGE.
Nice video sir Eckhart! I believe they should've upscaled the Eclipse-class Star Dreadnought too. I agree that it also should be about a little over 20km (at most maybe 25km vessel). In fact, I was a little surprised when I first learned that it's a little shorter than the Executor-class. But hey, even at it's current size, it is definitely still a capital ship/super weapon to be reckoned with.
And it's a good deal more massive and broad.
@@chrissonofpear3657 Yeah.
40 odd km seems about right for a ship named the eclipse
bigger is not always better.
@@egoalter1276
That's not the point, and yes, in Star Wars, that can very essentially be the case. 17.5KM is sensible, but again, that's not the point. It should be nearly 40KM since the Executor had been pushed up to 19KM. Lore being changed has to accommodate the adjacent lore that was based off of it in some way, like the Eclipse needing to be far larger than the Executor from the very start, and that extends to now.
17.5KM bias is a preference, not a logical extension of Star Wars lore.
I seem to remember that the Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels in the 90s and the New Essential Guide in the early 2000s both established that the Executor was 8 km long, while the Eclipse was about 18 km (maintaining the 5x ratio). However, I don’t know how accurate the sources were for the Executor’s size. Also, while I never did any independent measurements, the Executor does seem to be more than 5x longer than the Imperial class Star Destroyers around it even when perspective is boating the Imperials relative to the Executor. I could believe that the Executor is between 12 and 19km and that the Eclipse is simply shorter but far more massive.
Correct. Supposedly, the tower of the Executor was mean't to establish it as eleven times longer than the ISD overall, but the detailing was different from an ISD's, and could be interpreted as even larger. Curtis Saxton made the most recent measurement early in the 2010s, establishing the bridge tower as 289 metres wide, and the overall ship length as just over 19 km.
In canon the Executor and all other Super Star Destroyers are 19km long. The Eclipse was mentioned in the Aftermath:Empire's End book but it could just be a regular ssd, it's not described how it looks
I always thought the Eclipse was 21 km long. I remember reading a source somewhere that stated so.
also at 3:37, isn't the Super-class a different ship?
Just in time for my break at work!
2 Lucrehulk-Class Battleships vs Executor-Class Star Dreadnought (4th attempt)
Isn't the Eclipse just straight up non-cannon now?
Maybe we can just say that in the Dark Empire cannon it's larger than the Executor-class star destroyer.
It's canon and apparently it went missing during the galactic civil war and it was later found by the first order it was then torn apart for parts to make the supremacy
I personally love the idea of it being roughly 40k kilometers, despite how impractical it would be. I think it would truly like up to its name, as it would quite literally eclipse most ships, and even smaller planets.
Good breakdown, I despise the constant changing. I have some other issues out of the original books I've been considering. So Thrawn reunited the remnants of the Empire under a solid force. I've heard some say he had several Star Destroyers, when in actually it was hundreds of course if not thousands. One has to keep in mind the need to maintain a defense of already held territory. Additionally, seeing as how Thrawn had access to all the special archives such as the location of Mount Tantiss, etc. Why the hell did he not go capture the Black Fleet. The Sword command had a significant number of ships which Thrawn must have known about to include at least the one Super Star Destroyer. Now we know that it was supposed to comprise over 300 vessels from keel to final construction in addition to those assigned or had reported in for repairs. Thrawn must have known of its existence and bringing the Yevetha to heel along with the acquiring of the shipyards would have been a massive boost to his warfighting capabilities. Something overlooked. Or let's say the Maw Installation and Admiral Daala. Even though superweapons were not his style, Thrawn would have certainly made use of these items and the manpower within although 4 Mark 1 star destroyers may not been worth the effort. But what of the other supposed Warlords that were out there and should have if they did not flock to Thrawn which surely he would have made them. Harrsk, Teradoc, and others that were holding onto significant numbers of ships and personnel. And the biggest WTF would be the fleet at Byss. Given Thrawn's access to records and knowledge, it is far fetched that he would not have used these tools to go after the enemy from the more powerful variants of Star Destroyers to items like the Galaxy Gun. Even had he not had access to this information, given his savvy, I think he certainly would have figured it out since he know where the capitol and everything remained. Additionally, you have the new Star Wars complete hack of events that are ridiculous. So the First Order returns from the Unknown Regions stronger than ever before right? Somehow never clashed with the Hand of Thrawn/Chiss Ascendency? Somehow never found themselves engaged by the Ssi-Ruuk or Yuuzhon Vong? I find it beyond ridiculous that a fleeing force would somehow enter the Unknown Regions having sustained massive losses and yet come back more advanced and powerful than ever before.
I’d love to see a video dedicated to how powerful the ‘spirit of fire’ ship from halo wars is. I ask this as it confused me as it held off a banished carrier and I think destroyed a covernant destroyer... so I’m not sure how powerful the shop actually is as it’s a adjusted colony ship that over 30 years old but is displayed as able to hold its ground agains much more powerful ships.
Love your vids
Its the space equivalent of an LHD. Its not a frontline warship (neither is a carrier). And it didn't destroy that destroyer in HW1, it bugged the fuck out.
Ego Alter so why didn’t that shop chase and destroy it?
Bad writing. If you actually pay attention to the mission dialouge, its about holding back a boarding attempt while the reactor is repaired, and it ends with Cutter ordering "Take us out of here!". I Suppose the covenant wanting to capture the crew to use them as ignition keys for the Forerunner stuff is plausible.
Dog at the end is still my favorite part.
Who even decided it would be a good idea to make the executor suddenly 19km and put it into contrast and violation of all previous media, including movies?
It's allegedly from measurements taken from on-screen which overrides all other sources. I'm no expert at measuring or scaling though, and Eckharts' last comment has me wondering if the 19 km was actually accurate. 12.5 km at the very least still felt plausible with the original armament and embarked fighter numbers. But at 19km you're talking a ship 3x more massive which makes the old numbers way too small, and the newer numbers made it on-par if not stronger than the Eclipse, super-weapon notwithstanding.
I have all those Dark Empire and West End books from years back and yes the Eclipse was always seen as massive ship bigger than anything else.
Can you link Pablo's article in your description please?
I re-watched the dog skit at the end (@5:55) several times hahahahhaha!
Nothing like a good starship comparison in the morning
Nice research. I've always found Star destroyers ironically majestic :)
Eclipse is only slightly shorter but she's much more imposing due to her being thicker than the Executor.
4:55 I don’t see why it wouldn’t be appropriate because in the absolutely awful movie known as Last Jedi (gosh it infuriates me) we saw the Mega Star Destroyer was over 60 Kilometres long so a a 40 Kilometre ship in the much more crazy and overpowered Legends timeline isn’t inappropriate at all.
I like the Eclipse as it is. It is finally a weapon that doesn't sacrifice practicality for intimidation, and actually utalizes its size to mount the superlaser.
Many calculations definitely concluded one surface mile for ISD 1&2& Tector battleships. Comparation between filming ISD metal model( in scale with Executor) and filming model of Executor got result 13550 meters for Executor's axis. Maybe ILM kept similar measures for Supremacy - length ( wingspan calculated for 60 000m but length is only Executor 's like)
Suggestions for the next video...
1. Klaxosaurs vs Reapers vs Forerunners.
2. Forerunners vs Necrons.
3. Yuuzhan Vong vs Tyranids.
4. Played Endless Space before?
5. Super TTGL vs the Chaos Gods.
One of the first wooo! Big 10 mile(ish) boi! Best early boi notification! I always thought the eclipse massively eclipsed (pun intended) the executer.
That pun made me die inside.
I am going to PUN-ish you with a taste of your own medicine.
Attila The Hun You died inside?!! Huh would you say that pun was killer?
I would debate on doing more but I don't want to lower myself to your PUN-y moral level.
Enough jokes you guys have terrible EXECUTION
I got Dark Empire when it first came out, and I honestly thought the Eclipse was smaller, just based off a perception that the Executor was more narrow and the Eclipse still looked like a smaller class star destroyer. It gave the impression the Executor was bigger. I don't remember the 10 miles long dialog.
Umbaran MHC (Star Wars) vs Covenant Scarab (Halo)
I hate to say this, as a hardcore SW Fan, but I have to give it to the Scarab. The thing is probably a little bigger than the Umbaran Spider Tank, and subsequently have more firepower. But then if we're going off who gets the first shot then I don't know. I mean, the Umbaran Military was tossing 300 Megaton missiles at shields and barely damaging them (there own). Tbh I might have low balled the UST to the Scarab. He'll have to do a video on it. And I'm bought to go surf Wookiepeedia 😁
Surf on Shogun... surf on 👍🏻
I know you'll get to this in the finale of the Vong sub-series. Won't stop me from going through the motions though. Anyways:
Can you breakdown what is by far the largest space battle in the entire franchise? *The* *Battle* *of* *Yuuzhan'tar!* I have made this request: Seventy-two times.
I'm sure he'll get there eventually. Maybe within the year?
The Executor may have been slightly longer but the Eclipse was ultimately still bigger overall. Look at the ship's overall dimensions and mass, for instance. What it lacked in length, it made up for in girth and overall hull mass. At least the first Eclipse did. I'm not sure on the length of the Eclipse II, but from the pictures, it has definitely lost quite a bit of weight. It also doesn't look anywhere near as menacing.
Even comparing 17.5 to 19, the Eclipse is one beefy boi. It's got some serious girth.
I’ve always thought the supremacy would’ve been that little bit more badass if they stuck the eclipse on the nose of the mega class
Their's a pic and measurement of the eclipse dreadnought being 35km while the executor was 19km
Fan made? I bet it either didn't use specific figures, or reused 8 km...
@@chrissonofpear3657 might have been fan made I'll post it on the discord
But did The Eclipse have its own mall, zoo, and three-ring circus?
Almost certainly a strip mall and a gym...
i think it doesn't matter wether the eclipse is 18 or 40 km long, the ship is basically indestructible anyway. but great video!
Thanks Eckhart! Very cool!
I actually like the idea that the Eclipse is not the largest ship. The Executor class is designed to run tactics and organisation for a whole fleet, it is more or less a moving starbase, The Eclipse is a warship that was designed to blow planets up. Seen in this light the size difference makes sense.
Does it read specifically "twice as LONG" or "twice as big"?
Because the later can also mean twice as much volume, twice as high/broad ect.
Great work. It has always bothered me that they didn't scale up the Eclipse. It was several years after Dark Empire that I learned about the change in the Executor's size, and was annoyed at what it did to the Eclipse.
Could you do a video comparing Space Battleship Yamato to one of the ships in the halo or SW universe? That would the best matchuop ever tbh.
I remember seeing the various arguments and evidence in the 90s. I think I have a 90s edition ships of Star Wars which says the SSD was 8km long. I always assumed the Eclipse was supposed to be about twice as long as the normal SSD, but much more massive. I think it should still be much longer than the SSD, maybe 25-30Km, just to put the SSD in its shadow.