So, I have a friend who, a few years ago had a Pinarello Prince that decoupled at the chain stay. It was obviously a factory defect so he took it in. My friend is close to 60 years old and a bit overweight... They didn't have a Prince in his size but they had the Dogma so they told him for $750 they'd transfer his gear over and he could have that. He asked, "Would that frame handle a guy like me?" and the kid in the shop said, "Oh yeah, they know who they're selling these too." My friend laughed out loud and gave them the money.
A bit overweight sounds to me like probably under the 250 lb weight limit of most modern carbon race frames, but cool story, none the less. Not sure the chap at the shop has any idea what he's on about though since the Dogma as a hard weight limit of 90 kg, or about 200 lbs, which is far less then Treks used to be, unsure if they changed that though at Trek now.
If you don’t race buy the bike you want. Lightweight, aero, all rounder, gravel bike whatever you want and whatever gets you excited to ride consistently. Cervelo Soloist is what gets me excited everyday of the week 🤙
I have an aethos, and as I don’t care for racing it’s hands down my number one choice for day long rides. I have an aero bike for shorter rides, but the aethos is what I take out more often.
Nice to listen as always but I think there was some pseudo science on this episode @ 27:00 peak torque showed that thru axles don’t make a bike stiffer. @ 24:00 barring the extra weight, a frame with more of carbon material does not take more pedaling energy to transfer the energy to the road. A stiffer build would transfer pedaling forces to the road more efficiently than a flexy build.
Yeah the energy and extra mass stuff made very little sense from a physics standpoint. Generally you are not getting power losses through a frame but flexing will make it feel slower and respond slower.
I'm a mechanic at Decathlon and this is why Decathlon is king at value for money in bikes: Decathlon doesn't have to have any profit margin on the bike. You buy the bike, but you end up buying loads of other stuff. You go to pick up the bike, you get new bottlecages, bottles, tools, lubes, degreaser, clothes.. your wife will come along to look at new padel rackets and gloves for the kids. All that stuff has sufficient margins.. cross selling!
Also, Decathlon belongs to the Auchan family. They are rich AF, the group isn't listed, it's private money, they aren't about milking every cent every quarter. And a lot of decathlon employees are truly passionate about sports and not being human garbage, they don't live lives centered on money. Those who develop decathlon products don't get bonuses if their products sell more. But they do have pride in their work, in knowing people buy the stuff and like the stuff. It's a whole French ethos thing. The value you can get from decathlon is really inspiring. I've had some of their stuff for donkey years, and I'm proud I paid Decathlon money for it, instead of paying for vaporware from a big brand.
Loved this, I’m as home mechanic and bike builder - this was absolutely awesome! Please, please, please have him back on sometime. You rock Chris, this was possibly the best interview I’ve ever listened to 😀
Leisure cyclist here. I think a lot of leisure riders want quality high performing bikes with some of the pop but just won't go to the extreme that competitive riders will. If you're not competing, unless you have money to burn, it gets much harder to justify buying a 15k bike over a high quality 3k - 7k bike. At least that is how it is for me.
The new van rysel bike, with rival and zipp 303, at 4k, is the perfect bike for anyone not racing. You can't ask for much more, at 8kg, eletronic shifting and some nice carbon wheels. After that is just it's just stupid to run that type of money.... 4k is a lot already.
Aren't the majority of cyclists leisure riders; only a small percentage actually race.....but the whole industry is set up for the performance cyclist.
I really don't get why there is so much discussion about the stiffness of frames out there. Here in Germany, we have " Tour Magazin" which lab tests pretty much every frame from the big brands in a very transparent procedure. There are also some overview charts of the results out there easy to find. You look into this chart, you know the frame stiffness. Of course, ride feel is about more than just numbers from a lab test, but it is definitely not a big guessing game
There's a lot of "broscience" in this video about this. The point about "there's more material so you need more energy to transfer power" makes 0 sense.
I used to base my bike purchases on their tests for the past decade or more. There was a site, I think it is “efbe bike testing” or something like that.
Tour magazine took the Van Rysel in the wind tunnel and it tested better then the tarmac. So they seemed to do a good job developing this bike. Will be interesting to see if they can deliver in quality of the mass produced product as well.
They specced the Van Rysel with more narrow bar's than it's usually sold with for that size though, I think it was 38cm. I believe that's why i tested better than the tarmac and propel wich was tested with 42cm bars
I wouldn't believe anything they say about the testing and this and that they're just trying to push new products and new bikes. If you're going to buy something, just make sure you like what it looks like and how it rides at this point in the cycle industry. If you want to buy something that is high quality and the best You buy a Trek
It's easily overlooked that Decathlon has really deep pockets, so can afford to maintain a full-on research site near Lille. Their Van Rysel stuff, e.g. their clothing, is high quality stuff, many levels above their standard BTWin or Decathlon brands. I think a good comparison would be Honda or Toyota - their bread and butter are reliable, slightly boring cars. Yet they also develop GT or F1 cars that rival the likes of Porsche and Ferrari. Also BMC quite obviously plans on going to the World Tour with Tudor in a few years.
good comparison. People also forget that Decathlon has a very succesful mountainbike team with their Rockrider bikes. They know what threy're doing. Their budget imago will vanish over the next couple of years
I sometimes forget how many people have no mechanical ability (or willingness) whatsoever. I don't consider myself particularly talented or capable, but it's easier for me to list the jobs I don't do on my bike than the ones that I do.
Some people can't even change a flat. That's why this no tube system is appealing especially to women. The mechanical mishaps is what keeps most non-handy people away from cycling outdoors
From my time as a mechanic, it was often roadies who were mechanically inept. And I don't mean just not bothered but rather just pretty clueless. Mountain bikers on the other hand are, in my experience, more mechanically-minded and tend to get stuck in. I do both but respect the mtb community more.
@@Ivan-oh6ug Mountain bikes get more abuse and need more frequent attention, so if you always used the shop, you'd never ride. Also, Toyota Tacomas are expensive and that eats up all the money. None left for the shop
@@Ivan-oh6ug Road bikes where aeons more reliable and rigid than those agricultural contraptions with too wide too small wheels and useless springs everywhere.
Great listen. Definitely changed the way I think about what type of bike I will purchase next. And to the people complaining about Edwin saying "like". It is obviously his first podcast, give the bloke a break 👍
Great guest. One of your best episodes. I have only watched a few of your videos and find the discussions a bit fluffy. This was relatable and useful. Combining from a guy who would drop in the “leisure cyclist” category who wrenches enough to build his own bikes.
The most responsive bike I’ve ever ridden is the Colnago Prestige 2019 CX bike. It’s now my main road bike. It accelerates effortlessly despite being 8.3kg. Unbelievably good compared to the S-Works SL7 and the Colnago V3Rs.
I've had a Decathlon Triban RC520 for the last three years or so. It has by far surpassed my expectations. However, the us of QR-skewers is a bit limiting for the upgrade path for wheels. I ended up with DT Swiss 350 hubs which are able to be converted between thru-axles and QR-skewers. Get a better saddle, a couple of deep dish wheels and an Aero handlebar and you have a fast alloy machine for fairly cheap.
The second or third tier Van Rysels looks like crazy value. ZIPP 303, SRAM RIVAL ETAP AXS groupset and QUARQ powermeter for 4.200 EUR is crazy. I'd would buy that immediatly if I was looking for a new bike.
I like the Crit/Mechanic commentary. He KNOWS, or at least I believe what he talks about. As a non native English speaker, I couldn't get what you all mean about the snappiness of a bike... I thought it was something about dodging road obstacles easier 😅 . Reactiveness is a good term! That Van Rysel just needs more color options and it will be mine after a sneaky loan 😂.
I have ridden a Canyon Abroad and an Ultimate for the past 5 years. In terms of comfort there isn't much between them. I would suggest that the Aero bike isn't that bad PROVIDING you are reasonably fit, not overweight and have a really good bike fit.
Still an avid user of training wheels. Have rarely ever trained or even raced in Sydney on carbons. Advantages include. - Easier to fix buckles with higher spoke count and external nipples. - Not caring about damaging them if I decide to ride a gravel road, or miss time a curb jump. - Major flex to ride past and/or drop people that are using race wheels. - Not as stiff, as such ride is smoother. - Feels great when putting race wheels in. - Makes local rides and racing a bit harder
I think the "snappy-ness" feel comes mostly from wheelbase length in particular the chains taylor length and construction. BH Bikes if you've never riden one is prob the "snappiest" feeling rigs you'll find. . And yes I've tested just this particular thing with over 2 dozen high-end frame builds
I was checking out Moto Guzzi yesterday, you can get their top level bikes for $13K. Even as a casual rider who logged in about 30,000 miles in the last 4 years, I’d have to seriously go mad to pay more than that on a bicycle made in China.
@alistairmartin13 ‘Casually serious’ like many others listening to this show. Why would any half witted cyclist try to make BS claims about their miles when all the miles tend to be recorded on garmin, strava etc..? I rode the heck out of the pandemic and I secretly miss that time. I meant casual and 30,000 in the sense that I don’t have racing goals but I like to train and be fit.
@@discbrakefan IMHO, that video is trying to justify bicycle prices by looking at it from a very narrow angle. First of all, norco is not a top level bike brand offering top level builds, their top spec xc bike has sram GX eagle, rockshox sid and alloy components. Norco has zero world tour pro victories as far as I know. A top spec mtb from specialized, Scott, cervelo actually costs anywhere from $12k to $15K not $7-8k. Bike brands used to have DuraAce builds at around 8K, now ultegra build is $7-10K and durace is $12k+. For the ultegra build money bicycle you can get a moto guzzi V7 and MG is not KtM, it is assembled in Italy not India and you can choose from 5 color options with an options list to add-on as well. Peaktorque had a good video on value analysis.
@@gokaygs Yep but “used to” was before the pandemic and years of inflation. Motorcycle prices have risen significantly too. I’m not going to argue bicycles are cheap, but hand-made carbon fibre and miniature electronics and servos are somewhat more complex and costly compared to the technology in motorcycles.
@@discbrakefan Pandemic years also brought in a massive flux of buyers while causing supply chain issues. Today The new buyer flux is gone, supply chain issues are normalized and the liquidity of pandemic times are also gone, most people who were buying bikes few years ago are not buyers anymore. Bike prices have inflated way more than inflation rised. I strongly disagree with you on bicycle technology being more complex than motorcycle tech; we are talking about a machine that can safely travel at highway speeds with ABS, traction control and more. Versus a bicycle frame made up of carbon sheets laid up into a mold according to a diagram and we still consider ourselves lucky to get a void free frame with round and aligned holes or safe to ride headset designs, all while paying $5k for it. And the new technology consists of a battery, short distance transmitter and a robot arm actuator.
Bro you had a Girl , you are in the wrong club! 🤣🥳 JJ figure in the same club with Chris lmfaooo00 😂🤣😆🤌 but hey he has his girls in taekwondo! 👋🫲 Karate chop 🥩🪓🤣
Nah. Please don't spread rosy pictures. Having a little newborn is not pleasant, in esp. when you are a man. However time flies quick and children bring you all the joy later. But the beginnings are difficult. You have basically to put everything else aside.
The blow torch is very OTT for disc brake pads. Just use disc brake cleaner on the pads and rotors (or nail polish remover) and wipe off oil/grease. Then sandpaper the pads a bit until they look new. Job done.
@@dickieblench5001they were talking about decontamination of pads. 99% of the time you don't need to touch disc brake pads, never ridden them I'm guessing?! 😅
@@dickieblench5001 Which you have to do regularly because your rims are constantly fucking up your pads. Meanwhile, the only time anyone really fucks their disc pads is because they don't know how to use them and glaze their pads on a down hill trying to ride the brakes as if they were shit performing rims calipers.
Have a love / hate relationship with tubeless. Plus side, virtually no punctures , increased comfort, grip, easy to set up. Downside, that 1 in 10 time it just won't seal on set up and it sends you to the funny farm trying to find out why
Not a great portrayal of the leisure cyclist imho. And there's definitely a role that perhaps is the largest missed, which is a performance/fitness cyclist that isn't purely in it to win it.
Congratulations, Jesse - although the facial expression in the picture with your newborn is priceless i.e. sudden realisation that training time has now been cut in half!
Thanks guys, great topics covered, differently. Aero/weight, the slower you ride, the sooner weight will topple your bikes aero benefits. All the focus and numbers are based on pro-speeds/power. Ride lightweight but with an aero position, best of both. Please top my pandemic, US sourced second-hand Cervelo RCA? With Chinese 40cm AB-04s and aero 700-21C x 45mm wheels, my mech shifting RCA is easily sub-7kgs, in a 61cm frame size. (Yes, a dinosaur, but it took a meteor to topple them!)
Rysel my nissle. Rysels are going to be much more expensive in the US verse in Europe. I don't know why you even bring up open mold. Just read about it. It was designed in the windtunnel in France. It's no different than Specialized developing a bike in CA and then having it produced in China. It tested in Tour as aero as the SL7. And it's pretty light
First of all congrats to Jesse! As a father of two i can tell you your in for the ride of your life. Second, this is for Edwin: please think about the number of times you "like.' You are a very informed person but you're doing yourself a deservice when you say it so often. I made it though the show but its tough when its so frequent.
friend still races crits & high level road racing in UK and winters in Australia on his sworks venge, around 7.6kg... still unable to find its replacement, been close to having Cervelo S5. Venge in his view is still a top option but stay on 50's both ends nothing deeper.
Stiffest bike I ever rode was an early 90’s was a GT aluminum “triple tri” Zaskar. Stiffest (rideable) bike was that Madone 6. It was like, 3.5 hours of that bike was all I could take.
Tudor Pro Cycling run the BMC bikes and from what I’ve picked up from different cycling websites, Tudor will get some invites to some world tour events this yr. So long live BMC
The biggest problem I have when working on my bike is not putting on my reading glasses. 😂 Oh - Did the pro mechanic ever answer the question about how much sealant in a 28mm tire???
its crazy how much more I value the opinions on this show than any of the 'sponsored/not sponsored' stuff on other channels. I get that everyone needs to put food on the table, but jeez the way the business model is set up in this industry makes it so hard to find honest opinions
Good on you Edwin for going on the show, didn;t have to put your thoughts out there and face the comments, but does anyway to give us all something to listen to. I like peak torque but all you fan boys need to chill out and just appreciate that someone is willing to say how the bikes they rode felt. thats all it is, just feel. interesting chat and I hope Edwin does come back on
I gotta say CCACHE has very good taste. I've seen several of their beautiful build photos one of which was that black Lab71. I had that one and a few other bikes on my mind that fit me and were in the geometry ball park I needed. Once I saw that build I fell in love with so much that I got one. I actually had a EXS bar already too so our builds are quite similar.
BMC used to big in Europe about 5-10 years ago. But since then, manufacturers like Canyon have taken their place. Same thing happened to Bianchi. Sad to see, but since there are plenty of cheaper options (Canyon, Orbea, Cube, …), most people who got into cycling just recently don’t care about the more expensive brands.
BMC are a funny one, they have never grabbed me as something to consider when looking for a new bike. Maybe it's a simple as the name, team machine etc, just doesn't feel inspiring
I've got a Dogma F thats setup for a fairly aero position. Hella uncomfortable after 2.5 hours but god damn is it fun to bomb down an descent like a jet fighter. Worth the pain.
the black art of hydraulic disc maintenance ;-) got my first hydraulic disc MTB 20 years ago, bleeding brakes was a piece of cake, been doing home motorcycle maintenance for most of my life and had 20 years experience with hydraulic discs. Tuning the rear derailleur of that MTB was a different story.
Great video fellas with one note. Cyclist was portrayed to be testing his Lycra and wheel manufacturers capability and unfortunately his Lycra did not survive the testing @5:57, Please note.......Due to wide angle lens experimentation objects are smaller than they appear. Have a great day.
I feel very proud of my decisions. I ride a Foil with Enve 65s. I love very aspect of it, the thing is an absolute rocketship. Won 2 triathlons and set a Merx TT course record with it. Even after a year with it it’s very hard to find any flaws but if I had to I would say there is more flex near the BB than I’m comfortable with, every time I get up to sprint I hear my chain rub on my derailleur.
I love you guys....but I have so much to say!! I spend half the year in UK and half in Mallorca and you just wouldn't choose the same bike for both. Where you live makes such a difference, in mallorca I have 20, 30 and 50min climbs at my back door and smooth tarmac in the UK I have 2min super steep climbs and tarmac with holes like craters!! It has to be horses for course and I think that gets over looked. Also I have a systemsix, when I bought it all the data released said faster than a supersix up to 5% gradients...that was a big factor for me, but it clearly isn't in the real world. The real world is what matters....sadly!! 😘
An all around like a Specialized SL8, Trek Emonda, Cannondale Super Six, etc. would work well for both locations. You could run 30mm tires for the UK roads, but still have a lightweight bike for climbing in Mallorca. I really don't see the usefulness for aero specific bikes except as race day machines for people doing flat road races and crits.
And then there is Durian Fruit loop rider........he prefers old bikes from the 90s and HE SAID IN HIS OWN WORDS HE WILL "BEAT ANY PRO ON ONE ON A MODERN BIKE TODAY.".....Yea right o
There is way too much emphasis on speed, looks and integration instead of real world benefits like easy maintenance, low(er) TCO, safety features, proper engineering & manufacturing.
Chris...bro, what's up with that White T-shirt kit you are sporting. You can't have super clean kit on your Strava pics and then show up to the show in a plain white T. Just busting your balls. Great show! I always love it and share.
Love this type of interview but kinda too long to listen the whole conversation. Would be great if you make this more concise so we can get all the knowledges you want to share thought videos.
Competitive cyclists want performance that matters to them, recreational cyclists want the user experience they’re chasing, what ever that means to them is varied. Could mean ultra comfortable, or the bling with everything colour matched and custom decals for max kudos from their peers. Or MAX cool factor unobtainable for mere mortals. But that is where if they think max cool is the best BMC Teammachine R but they find it too harsh to ride longer than two hours as they’re not conditioned enough to sustain the riding position it contrary to the best bike fit for their needs and they’ve ignored that for cool factor.
Guys BMC is made in Taiwan. A bike brand that charges big they should make the frames in house like 3T. They are way to expensive for what they offer. Just my opinion
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Unbelievably high levels of broscience detected 😂 Austrlia Institute of Bromath at its finest
Nothing wrong with subjective feet, it's what matters in the end anyway.
😂😂😂
@@chriss6971Subjective feel is fine, explanations of seat stay mass are stretching it 😂
@@chriss6971Subjective feet. Now there's a concept
Big congrats to Jesse and the new baby, enjoy it they grow up fast.
So, I have a friend who, a few years ago had a Pinarello Prince that decoupled at the chain stay. It was obviously a factory defect so he took it in. My friend is close to 60 years old and a bit overweight...
They didn't have a Prince in his size but they had the Dogma so they told him for $750 they'd transfer his gear over and he could have that. He asked, "Would that frame handle a guy like me?" and the kid in the shop said, "Oh yeah, they know who they're selling these too." My friend laughed out loud and gave them the money.
Thats actually awesome. How did it work out? Im not trolling, im happy for the guy and would like to know how he likes it.
A bit overweight sounds to me like probably under the 250 lb weight limit of most modern carbon race frames, but cool story, none the less. Not sure the chap at the shop has any idea what he's on about though since the Dogma as a hard weight limit of 90 kg, or about 200 lbs, which is far less then Treks used to be, unsure if they changed that though at Trek now.
@@universe-juice He loved that bike. And he loves a good joke too so, win, win.
@@robertwhyte3435 what an awesome story. Dogma f!!!! Id give some skin for one of those!
I wonder if the Prince would break under a 275lb rider.
If you don’t race buy the bike you want. Lightweight, aero, all rounder, gravel bike whatever you want and whatever gets you excited to ride consistently. Cervelo Soloist is what gets me excited everyday of the week 🤙
Exactly
That's exactly what I want to build up.
Enve cockpit and wheels.
Force AXS.
Lets ROLL!
That’s how i feel about the Aethos. The Soloist has been on my radar
I race and I ride a Cervelo S3 with rim brakes because it is a fantastic bike.
I have an aethos, and as I don’t care for racing it’s hands down my number one choice for day long rides.
I have an aero bike for shorter rides, but the aethos is what I take out more often.
Nice to listen as always but I think there was some pseudo science on this episode
@ 27:00 peak torque showed that thru axles don’t make a bike stiffer.
@ 24:00 barring the extra weight, a frame with more of carbon material does not take more pedaling energy to transfer the energy to the road. A stiffer build would transfer pedaling forces to the road more efficiently than a flexy build.
I thought the exact same thing.
Yeah the energy and extra mass stuff made very little sense from a physics standpoint.
Generally you are not getting power losses through a frame but flexing will make it feel slower and respond slower.
That dude was sprouting some serious bro science 😂
this guy manages to be a mechanic at the same time as saying all the things bike industry marketing would say
which...i may add...makes for the perfect employee at ccache 😆
😂 If Jesse starts a college fund now, his baby will be able to afford a new BMC in 2045!
I'm a mechanic at Decathlon and this is why Decathlon is king at value for money in bikes: Decathlon doesn't have to have any profit margin on the bike. You buy the bike, but you end up buying loads of other stuff. You go to pick up the bike, you get new bottlecages, bottles, tools, lubes, degreaser, clothes.. your wife will come along to look at new padel rackets and gloves for the kids. All that stuff has sufficient margins.. cross selling!
Perfectly right. And that is why they don’t care so much about the US and AUS market: I would assume the a goal is the EU market.
Unfortunately Decathlon Indonesia doesn't sell Van Rysel bike.
Also, Decathlon belongs to the Auchan family. They are rich AF, the group isn't listed, it's private money, they aren't about milking every cent every quarter. And a lot of decathlon employees are truly passionate about sports and not being human garbage, they don't live lives centered on money. Those who develop decathlon products don't get bonuses if their products sell more. But they do have pride in their work, in knowing people buy the stuff and like the stuff. It's a whole French ethos thing. The value you can get from decathlon is really inspiring. I've had some of their stuff for donkey years, and I'm proud I paid Decathlon money for it, instead of paying for vaporware from a big brand.
Loved this, I’m as home mechanic and bike builder - this was absolutely awesome! Please, please, please have him back on sometime. You rock Chris, this was possibly the best interview I’ve ever listened to 😀
Peak Torque needs to get in this chat and get rid of the bollocks. Thru axles!
The list to correct is a lot longer than just "thru axles make the bike stiffer".
Leisure cyclist here. I think a lot of leisure riders want quality high performing bikes with some of the pop but just won't go to the extreme that competitive riders will. If you're not competing, unless you have money to burn, it gets much harder to justify buying a 15k bike over a high quality 3k - 7k bike. At least that is how it is for me.
The new van rysel bike, with rival and zipp 303, at 4k, is the perfect bike for anyone not racing. You can't ask for much more, at 8kg, eletronic shifting and some nice carbon wheels. After that is just it's just stupid to run that type of money.... 4k is a lot already.
Aren't the majority of cyclists leisure riders; only a small percentage actually race.....but the whole industry is set up for the performance cyclist.
the whole point is that all of the products of van rysel are design by swiss side for decathlon: tt bike, regular bike , helmets etc.
I really don't get why there is so much discussion about the stiffness of frames out there. Here in Germany, we have " Tour Magazin" which lab tests pretty much every frame from the big brands in a very transparent procedure. There are also some overview charts of the results out there easy to find. You look into this chart, you know the frame stiffness. Of course, ride feel is about more than just numbers from a lab test, but it is definitely not a big guessing game
There's a lot of "broscience" in this video about this. The point about "there's more material so you need more energy to transfer power" makes 0 sense.
I used to base my bike purchases on their tests for the past decade or more. There was a site, I think it is “efbe bike testing” or something like that.
He works for a bike shop in Australia which markets certain brands. He's being a sales person, no interest in objective tests of stiffness.
@@bikerjk1205Just sounds like the hearsay that happens in the retail world
This, like, podcast was, like, amazing! Like seriously.
Like.
I like, like your comment like, so like, I gave it a like 👍
If you know, you know, you know?
The bro science and BSarisms are just what i needed to get to sleep 😴. They were strong in this episode 😮
He’s used the word “like” more than a San Fernando valley girl 👧……
Oh my God!.......for sure.....totally.
Likely like the like like 😂🙈🙈🙈🙈🙈 pretty annoying after while like.
He talks LIKE a 14 year old boy
Tour magazine took the Van Rysel in the wind tunnel and it tested better then the tarmac. So they seemed to do a good job developing this bike. Will be interesting to see if they can deliver in quality of the mass produced product as well.
They specced the Van Rysel with more narrow bar's than it's usually sold with for that size though, I think it was 38cm. I believe that's why i tested better than the tarmac and propel wich was tested with 42cm bars
@@MrJaycobsen yes probably. I think it only shows that the van rysel is not a slow bike in terms of aerodynamics.
@@peakinearly_2788 Yes definitely on par with the best allround bikes tested in tour magazine
I wouldn't believe anything they say about the testing and this and that they're just trying to push new products and new bikes.
If you're going to buy something, just make sure you like what it looks like and how it rides at this point in the cycle industry.
If you want to buy something that is high quality and the best You buy a Trek
It’s good they’re specifying race cockpit for a race bike. It seems like AG2R might have meaningfully collaborated
It's easily overlooked that Decathlon has really deep pockets, so can afford to maintain a full-on research site near Lille. Their Van Rysel stuff, e.g. their clothing, is high quality stuff, many levels above their standard BTWin or Decathlon brands.
I think a good comparison would be Honda or Toyota - their bread and butter are reliable, slightly boring cars. Yet they also develop GT or F1 cars that rival the likes of Porsche and Ferrari.
Also BMC quite obviously plans on going to the World Tour with Tudor in a few years.
good comparison. People also forget that Decathlon has a very succesful mountainbike team with their Rockrider bikes. They know what threy're doing. Their budget imago will vanish over the next couple of years
Their MTB brand is Rockrider, as seen in XC MTB World Cup racing......
Great show, boys!! Good insights with Edwin and Congrats Jesse on the Bab🎉🎉
Jesse's facial expression made my day
Happy days!!! 🥳 Indoor training will be a new thing ! Zwift here Jesse comes!!! 🥳 Babysitting Redfoot!👣
yep, stay put, lol
HA! Hes tired 😂
Merida Scultura team, $12,000 AUD! Vision wheels dura ace groupset and power meter made in the same factory as a tarmac sl8..........
Here's a good question -- How do you store your tubeless wheel set over the winter?
I sometimes forget how many people have no mechanical ability (or willingness) whatsoever.
I don't consider myself particularly talented or capable, but it's easier for me to list the jobs I don't do on my bike than the ones that I do.
Some people can't even change a flat. That's why this no tube system is appealing especially to women. The mechanical mishaps is what keeps most non-handy people away from cycling outdoors
From my time as a mechanic, it was often roadies who were mechanically inept. And I don't mean just not bothered but rather just pretty clueless. Mountain bikers on the other hand are, in my experience, more mechanically-minded and tend to get stuck in. I do both but respect the mtb community more.
Agree, for most things you spend more time bringing your bike in and picking it up, than you would fixing it yourself.
@@Ivan-oh6ug Mountain bikes get more abuse and need more frequent attention, so if you always used the shop, you'd never ride. Also, Toyota Tacomas are expensive and that eats up all the money. None left for the shop
@@Ivan-oh6ug Road bikes where aeons more reliable and rigid than those agricultural contraptions with too wide too small wheels and useless springs everywhere.
Great listen. Definitely changed the way I think about what type of bike I will purchase next. And to the people complaining about Edwin saying "like". It is obviously his first podcast, give the bloke a break 👍
Yep 100%. Nice that they are listening so carefully to notice 😊
A noodle that dances up hills. Sounds perfect! (Congrats Jessie and Partnerj
For anyone about to start listening, I challenge you to count how many times Edwin says "like" 😂
I’ve been riding SWISSSIDE for a few years now and stoked to see how they perform on the WT. Plus they look dynamite on that frame
Great guest. One of your best episodes. I have only watched a few of your videos and find the discussions a bit fluffy. This was relatable and useful. Combining from a guy who would drop in the “leisure cyclist” category who wrenches enough to build his own bikes.
The most responsive bike I’ve ever ridden is the Colnago Prestige 2019 CX bike. It’s now my main road bike. It accelerates effortlessly despite being 8.3kg. Unbelievably good compared to the S-Works SL7 and the Colnago V3Rs.
It’s “Evil Edwin” !! Loved his cameo in the 2024 Peaks Challenge video 👍
Canyon has already been the value brand on the World Tour.
I've had a Decathlon Triban RC520 for the last three years or so. It has by far surpassed my expectations. However, the us of QR-skewers is a bit limiting for the upgrade path for wheels. I ended up with DT Swiss 350 hubs which are able to be converted between thru-axles and QR-skewers. Get a better saddle, a couple of deep dish wheels and an Aero handlebar and you have a fast alloy machine for fairly cheap.
The second or third tier Van Rysels looks like crazy value. ZIPP 303, SRAM RIVAL ETAP AXS groupset and QUARQ powermeter for 4.200 EUR is crazy.
I'd would buy that immediatly if I was looking for a new bike.
It’s good but there are bigger brands with similar specs (maybe not 303s, but good wheels) for not much more than that.
Some illustrative examples?
Really cool episode. Hour flew by. Great guest
Take a shot 🥃 whenever edwin say "like", you'll end up dead in no time. 😆
I like the Crit/Mechanic commentary.
He KNOWS, or at least I believe what he talks about.
As a non native English speaker, I couldn't get what you all mean about the snappiness of a bike... I thought it was something about dodging road obstacles easier 😅 . Reactiveness is a good term!
That Van Rysel just needs more color options and it will be mine after a sneaky loan 😂.
I have ridden a Canyon Abroad and an Ultimate for the past 5 years. In terms of comfort there isn't much between them. I would suggest that the Aero bike isn't that bad PROVIDING you are reasonably fit, not overweight and have a really good bike fit.
Still an avid user of training wheels. Have rarely ever trained or even raced in Sydney on carbons.
Advantages include.
- Easier to fix buckles with higher spoke count and external nipples.
- Not caring about damaging them if I decide to ride a gravel road, or miss time a curb jump.
- Major flex to ride past and/or drop people that are using race wheels.
- Not as stiff, as such ride is smoother.
- Feels great when putting race wheels in.
- Makes local rides and racing a bit harder
I think the "snappy-ness" feel comes mostly from wheelbase length in particular the chains taylor length and construction. BH Bikes if you've never riden one is prob the "snappiest" feeling rigs you'll find. . And yes I've tested just this particular thing with over 2 dozen high-end frame builds
I was checking out Moto Guzzi yesterday, you can get their top level bikes for $13K. Even as a casual rider who logged in about 30,000 miles in the last 4 years, I’d have to seriously go mad to pay more than that on a bicycle made in China.
FortNine did a good video on the price of motorcycles vs bicycles
@alistairmartin13 ‘Casually serious’ like many others listening to this show. Why would any half witted cyclist try to make BS claims about their miles when all the miles tend to be recorded on garmin, strava etc..? I rode the heck out of the pandemic and I secretly miss that time. I meant casual and 30,000 in the sense that I don’t have racing goals but I like to train and be fit.
@@discbrakefan IMHO, that video is trying to justify bicycle prices by looking at it from a very narrow angle. First of all, norco is not a top level bike brand offering top level builds, their top spec xc bike has sram GX eagle, rockshox sid and alloy components. Norco has zero world tour pro victories as far as I know. A top spec mtb from specialized, Scott, cervelo actually costs anywhere from $12k to $15K not $7-8k. Bike brands used to have DuraAce builds at around 8K, now ultegra build is $7-10K and durace is $12k+. For the ultegra build money bicycle you can get a moto guzzi V7 and MG is not KtM, it is assembled in Italy not India and you can choose from 5 color options with an options list to add-on as well. Peaktorque had a good video on value analysis.
@@gokaygs Yep but “used to” was before the pandemic and years of inflation.
Motorcycle prices have risen significantly too.
I’m not going to argue bicycles are cheap, but hand-made carbon fibre and miniature electronics and servos are somewhat more complex and costly compared to the technology in motorcycles.
@@discbrakefan Pandemic years also brought in a massive flux of buyers while causing supply chain issues. Today The new buyer flux is gone, supply chain issues are normalized and the liquidity of pandemic times are also gone, most people who were buying bikes few years ago are not buyers anymore. Bike prices have inflated way more than inflation rised.
I strongly disagree with you on bicycle technology being more complex than motorcycle tech; we are talking about a machine that can safely travel at highway speeds with ABS, traction control and more. Versus a bicycle frame made up of carbon sheets laid up into a mold according to a diagram and we still consider ourselves lucky to get a void free frame with round and aligned holes or safe to ride headset designs, all while paying $5k for it. And the new technology consists of a battery, short distance transmitter and a robot arm actuator.
Congrats Jesse. As the father of a 2.5 year old girl, it is life changing in the best ways. Welcome to the club.
Bro you had a Girl , you are in the wrong club! 🤣🥳 JJ figure in the same club with Chris lmfaooo00 😂🤣😆🤌 but hey he has his girls in taekwondo! 👋🫲 Karate chop 🥩🪓🤣
@@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed 😂 I meant fatherhood club!
@@jonathangriego7334 I'm just messing around! 👍🍼🏆
Nah. Please don't spread rosy pictures. Having a little newborn is not pleasant, in esp. when you are a man. However time flies quick and children bring you all the joy later. But the beginnings are difficult. You have basically to put everything else aside.
my tip for cleaning
UNi-PRO Industrial Hand Paint Wipes - 45 Pack
from BUNNINGS
just use a WIPE for the chain after each ride
The blow torch is very OTT for disc brake pads. Just use disc brake cleaner on the pads and rotors (or nail polish remover) and wipe off oil/grease. Then sandpaper the pads a bit until they look new. Job done.
As oppose to rim brakes where you just use a dry cloth 😂
@@dickieblench5001they were talking about decontamination of pads. 99% of the time you don't need to touch disc brake pads, never ridden them I'm guessing?! 😅
@@dickieblench5001 Which you have to do regularly because your rims are constantly fucking up your pads. Meanwhile, the only time anyone really fucks their disc pads is because they don't know how to use them and glaze their pads on a down hill trying to ride the brakes as if they were shit performing rims calipers.
@@dickieblench5001 Yeah nah.
I’ve never had to do anything like this for disc brakes.
@@cjohnson3836 what does glaze your pads mean?
Have a love / hate relationship with tubeless. Plus side, virtually no punctures , increased comfort, grip, easy to set up. Downside, that 1 in 10 time it just won't seal on set up and it sends you to the funny farm trying to find out why
Yep, great most of the time but has its moments 😂
Not a great portrayal of the leisure cyclist imho. And there's definitely a role that perhaps is the largest missed, which is a performance/fitness cyclist that isn't purely in it to win it.
Congrats Jesse . I really look forward to these shows. Great informative content that I trust.
Congratulations, Jesse - although the facial expression in the picture with your newborn is priceless i.e. sudden realisation that training time has now been cut in half!
If I close my eyes it’s almost Jesse
Ha ha ha ha 🤣 it dose sound like him! If there was no video, people would think it was
i am hearing these while working, if it wasn't for Chris saying Jesse wasn't here, I wouldn't know from his voice accent
Don’t forget that Decathlon was in the pro tour in the 80’s and 90’s….
Yes. www.google.com/search?q=kirsipuu+ag2r+decathlon&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjZmqKws-6CAxUsFBAIHWjJDdMQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=kirsipuu+ag2r+decathlon&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzoECCMQJzoGCAAQCBAeUNgUWMUmYIYsaABwAHgAgAFZiAHUA5IBAjEwmAEAoAEBqgELZ3dzLXdpei1pbWfAAQE&sclient=img&ei=U-dpZZmlOayowPAP6JK3mA0&bih=932&biw=1872#imgrc=-n4ik14wkYMWXM
Thanks guys, great topics covered, differently.
Aero/weight, the slower you ride, the sooner weight will topple your bikes aero benefits. All the focus and numbers are based on pro-speeds/power. Ride lightweight but with an aero position, best of both.
Please top my pandemic, US sourced second-hand Cervelo RCA? With Chinese 40cm AB-04s and aero 700-21C x 45mm wheels, my mech shifting RCA is easily sub-7kgs, in a 61cm frame size. (Yes, a dinosaur, but it took a meteor to topple them!)
BMC will be with Tudor pro cycling now, so small amount of peloton action
Congrats Jesse!
I'd probably put Time bikes up there with BMC as ridiculously well engineered, but quite niche in terms of audience / reach.
Nice chat as always, thanks!
I have a BMC Team Machine SLR02-2 2018, it's rock solid with over 9K Miles.
Rysel my nissle. Rysels are going to be much more expensive in the US verse in Europe.
I don't know why you even bring up open mold. Just read about it. It was designed in the windtunnel in France. It's no different than Specialized developing a bike in CA and then having it produced in China.
It tested in Tour as aero as the SL7. And it's pretty light
First of all congrats to Jesse! As a father of two i can tell you your in for the ride of your life.
Second, this is for Edwin: please think about the number of times you "like.' You are a very informed person but you're doing yourself a deservice when you say it so often. I made it though the show but its tough when its so frequent.
Public speaking isn't natural for everyone. Don't be a dickhole
You are saying like you are perfect. It's like you don't have a thing. Like, we all have a thing ot two. Don't be like that guy! 😉
did the pro mechanic say the aethos is both super still yet noodly in the same sentence
Yes, exactly my thoughts.
Not being super stiff isn’t a bad thing, depends what you want.
'pro mechanic '
The guy doesn’t know what to think
friend still races crits & high level road racing in UK and winters in Australia on his sworks venge, around 7.6kg... still unable to find its replacement, been close to having Cervelo S5. Venge in his view is still a top option but stay on 50's both ends nothing deeper.
I cant speak for the carbon Van Rysels, but here in the Asia-Pacific we have access to the aluminum Van Rysels with 105 and they're real nice.
I hope to see more brands like WINSPACE, ELVES, YOELEO and others in the pro peloton.
I don't. I'm against drug addiction.
Stiffest bike I ever rode was an early 90’s was a GT aluminum “triple tri” Zaskar. Stiffest (rideable) bike was that Madone 6. It was like, 3.5 hours of that bike was all I could take.
Tudor Pro Cycling run the BMC bikes and from what I’ve picked up from different cycling websites, Tudor will get some invites to some world tour events this yr. So long live BMC
The biggest problem I have when working on my bike is not putting on my reading glasses. 😂
Oh - Did the pro mechanic ever answer the question about how much sealant in a 28mm tire???
its crazy how much more I value the opinions on this show than any of the 'sponsored/not sponsored' stuff on other channels. I get that everyone needs to put food on the table, but jeez the way the business model is set up in this industry makes it so hard to find honest opinions
The mechanic on this show works for a major bike shop in Sydney which sells certain brands so it's just marketing.
Good on you Edwin for going on the show, didn;t have to put your thoughts out there and face the comments, but does anyway to give us all something to listen to. I like peak torque but all you fan boys need to chill out and just appreciate that someone is willing to say how the bikes they rode felt. thats all it is, just feel. interesting chat and I hope Edwin does come back on
What kind of blowtorch? Butane gas blowtorch or hot air gun?
I gotta say CCACHE has very good taste. I've seen several of their beautiful build photos one of which was that black Lab71. I had that one and a few other bikes on my mind that fit me and were in the geometry ball park I needed. Once I saw that build I fell in love with so much that I got one. I actually had a EXS bar already too so our builds are quite similar.
Shouldn’t be allowed to talk science if your only qualification is working at one of Sydney’s worst bike stores.
😂😂
BMC used to big in Europe about 5-10 years ago. But since then, manufacturers like Canyon have taken their place. Same thing happened to Bianchi. Sad to see, but since there are plenty of cheaper options (Canyon, Orbea, Cube, …), most people who got into cycling just recently don’t care about the more expensive brands.
BMC are a funny one, they have never grabbed me as something to consider when looking for a new bike. Maybe it's a simple as the name, team machine etc, just doesn't feel inspiring
Wait till you realise BMC stands for Bike Manufacturing Company 😂
Outstanding chat!
Every bike has its compromise so it’s up to your priorities what bike suits your needs.
Congratulations Jesse, all the best and enjoy fatherhood 👏
Keeping your bike clean! Yes
Im surprised more people dont train with a weight pack on. Works pretty good and its cheap.
According to German Tour magazin the S5 is Not a stiff Bike that could cause your feeling that it isnt accelerating that good
I've got a Dogma F thats setup for a fairly aero position. Hella uncomfortable after 2.5 hours but god damn is it fun to bomb down an descent like a jet fighter. Worth the pain.
Very informative today. Enjoyed the insight from a bike technician, who also races.👍
Love the way this bro normalizes the insanity of road tubeless and disc maintenance 😂
the black art of hydraulic disc maintenance ;-) got my first hydraulic disc MTB 20 years ago, bleeding brakes was a piece of cake, been doing home motorcycle maintenance for most of my life and had 20 years experience with hydraulic discs. Tuning the rear derailleur of that MTB was a different story.
I haven't done maintenance on my disc brakes in almost 4 years. There is no maintenance.
@@cjohnson3836 That only tells me that you are not riding much.
Great video fellas with one note. Cyclist was portrayed to be testing his Lycra and wheel manufacturers capability and unfortunately his Lycra did not survive the testing @5:57, Please note.......Due to wide angle lens experimentation objects are smaller than they appear. Have a great day.
The dogmas bb tend to test a bit flexy according to tour matazine. Maybe the seatpost is the stiff part. Congrats on the baby
I feel very proud of my decisions. I ride a Foil with Enve 65s. I love very aspect of it, the thing is an absolute rocketship. Won 2 triathlons and set a Merx TT course record with it.
Even after a year with it it’s very hard to find any flaws but if I had to I would say there is more flex near the BB than I’m comfortable with, every time I get up to sprint I hear my chain rub on my derailleur.
25:15 thats just shit, just personal feelings, „energy passing through the frame“ what the hell😂😂
have a nice one
Informative and enjoyable as awlays. What kind/brand plugs are best for smooth 28-32 tires as compared to larger treaded tubeless setups?
Loved this episode. Edwin’s knowledge and insight was great! More of this!
I love you guys....but I have so much to say!! I spend half the year in UK and half in Mallorca and you just wouldn't choose the same bike for both. Where you live makes such a difference, in mallorca I have 20, 30 and 50min climbs at my back door and smooth tarmac in the UK I have 2min super steep climbs and tarmac with holes like craters!! It has to be horses for course and I think that gets over looked.
Also I have a systemsix, when I bought it all the data released said faster than a supersix up to 5% gradients...that was a big factor for me, but it clearly isn't in the real world. The real world is what matters....sadly!!
😘
An all around like a Specialized SL8, Trek Emonda, Cannondale Super Six, etc. would work well for both locations. You could run 30mm tires for the UK roads, but still have a lightweight bike for climbing in Mallorca. I really don't see the usefulness for aero specific bikes except as race day machines for people doing flat road races and crits.
Great guest host and subjects.
At 21minutes, heavier frame holding speed: heavier by 300gr ish… but what about having not bottle vs 2 bottles ?
BMC is a brilliant product, expense unspared, but not promoted enough and do any Aussie still make the connection to Cadel?
And then there is Durian Fruit loop rider........he prefers old bikes from the 90s and HE SAID IN HIS OWN WORDS HE WILL "BEAT ANY PRO ON ONE ON A MODERN BIKE TODAY.".....Yea right o
The prototypes where already on a bike trade show last year in Belgium.
There is way too much emphasis on speed, looks and integration instead of real world benefits like easy maintenance, low(er) TCO, safety features, proper engineering & manufacturing.
Chris...bro, what's up with that White T-shirt kit you are sporting. You can't have super clean kit on your Strava pics and then show up to the show in a plain white T.
Just busting your balls. Great show! I always love it and share.
Love this type of interview but kinda too long to listen the whole conversation. Would be great if you make this more concise so we can get all the knowledges you want to share thought videos.
Edit out the 'like' and 'you know' bits, and the show would be shorter by 30%.
Competitive cyclists want performance that matters to them, recreational cyclists want the user experience they’re chasing, what ever that means to them is varied. Could mean ultra comfortable, or the bling with everything colour matched and custom decals for max kudos from their peers. Or MAX cool factor unobtainable for mere mortals. But that is where if they think max cool is the best BMC Teammachine R but they find it too harsh to ride longer than two hours as they’re not conditioned enough to sustain the riding position it contrary to the best bike fit for their needs and they’ve ignored that for cool factor.
As a pinarello dogma f12 owner... I agree. ;)
What is the advantage of tubeless on a road bike? Isn't it heavier than a latex inner tube?
Less flat tyres. Up to you if you think that's worth it or not.
just lets remember the era of Tadej Valjavec who used Dechatlon aluminum alloy bikes . We were just wondering what that brand was
Guys BMC is made in Taiwan. A bike brand that charges big they should make the frames in house like 3T. They are way to expensive for what they offer. Just my opinion
Made in China, like all others.
@@Gianniz27made in Taiwan its marked on the bottom of the frames
I trust Taiwanese carbon manufacturers a hell of a lot more than Italian ones.
in europe Van rysel bikes been popular before eneter Pro Tour
lots of bikes we can see on roads. Maybe its so ouckward in Australia
What's "ouckward"?
unknown not familiar
@@bikerjk1205
Nice work Edwin. Great real world insights.