Y'all be forgetting Vegeta in the superhero movie literally said Jiren wasn't that far off in terms of power, he wasn't much more powerful than ssb he just knew how to control his ki much better.
Or broly is stronger due to the fact that goku was stronger during his fight than he was in the tournament of power, his ultra instinct form is stronger and he has a better mastery of it, yet broly is still stronger than him
Plot armor = Broly withstands jirens onslaught, slowly adapts and eventually beats brolly. Reality = jiren puts broly down quickly but not to quick, understanding and realizing his adaptability
@@Zeil_tha_dragonyall both wrong the statement was jiren is stronger then his god who is not really stated to be stronger then beerus 🤷🏾♂️before bro died he made dragon ball super hero’s and he was fixing wat the anime messed up by they statements that’s y vegeta said jiren wasn’t really that much stronger then them it was cuz him meditating n having better ki control n because vegeta understood that he was able to beat goku 💯 that’s y the manga made jiren much weaker and made u see that beerus was stronger then the other gods cuz the anime messed up how strong jiren was supposed to be to the anime tend to do this buu vs vegito the anime made Vegito way stronger then he was in the manga
I mean it's Canon that jiren didn't just one shot goku even though he was "growing in power" not to mention broly's potential to grow is WAY higher than goku. So jiren taking a very long time and toying with goku is Canon for him. I still think jiren would win 6/10 but saying 9/10 is being super biased and making them fight in a way they never would.
@@parkerjunior1 strength in dragon ball determines on how powerful ur level is Broly didn’t have training after the movie super hero movie said so broly should be somewhere around that powerful he was at still when he fights goku n gohan and goten n the manga meaning broly is stronger the jiren n the manga n if they adapted into the anime when it returns would place broly above jiren
Assuming Broly starts as FPSSJ he wins. He has a much faster rate of growth and he is outright stated to be the strongest enemy in history. And yes, Jiren is an enemy, he is verbatim called an enemy in eposode titles and statements in the ToP. If we ignore promotional material sure Jiren has more steps in his scaling chain, but that doesn't inherently mean he's stronger than Broly who is just an unknown amount above Beerus.
yeah it's called being passionate, it's what makes DB fanbase more unique than other fanbases even without content for several months we still take and converse amongst each other. Love it or hate it you gotta appreciate the passion
By stating this you imply that t.o.p mui is stronger than post t.o.p ssb gogeta. Which is absolutely absurd if true but I don't think it is. Beerus was shown being the strongest in the manga, the statements made by whis in the anime just doing make sense to you look at the rest of super. I just think broly wins this. God bless,
No? Broly doesn't scale to SSJB Gogeta, he got danced on despite powering up and having the time to adapt. Using Gogeta as a argument is nonsensical unless you're trying to argue for SSJ Gogeta
@@NeonSwordsManFangattack Saying Broly doesn’t scale to Gogeta is absolutely crazy and just factually incorrect on every level. The last attack Broly had “landed” against Gogeta was the was when in his SSJFP state, he had a relatively even punch-to-punch clash with SSB Gogeta. Aside from that Gogeta was forced to skip SSG, use SSB and had to dodge all of Broly’s attacks. It’s also been stated that Broly vid Gogeta was a fight in which ‘either of them could’ve gone down many times’ by Nagamine in his interview. I know Saikyo Medium jump had pretty much stated that if Broly had control over himself, he most likely would’ve beaten that SSB Gogeta as well. Broly does confidently scale to Gogeta in terms of power and as a fighter (overall) as well, no debate.
Ok, so several problems. 1. The "He's not really an enemy" is pure semantics. When you have to become hyperliteral about specific wording of a statement, that's when you know that you're grasping at straws. 2. On top of that the statement of strongest enemy is backed up in the movie. Goku states that he believed his strength was reaching it's peak (Referring to his fight with Jiren.) But after meeting someone so much stronger that him (Broly) he's changed his mind. Which suggests once again that Broly is a far greater challenge than Jiren was. 3. The fact that fusion with ssj blue was considered the only way to stop Broly is also a testament to this. 4. Statements regarding beerus should just be ignored at this point. Because every single time he is compared to someone, he is even stronger than before. First he was only slightly stronger than ssj god. Then he was well above super saiyan blue, then he was compared to vegito and zamasu. Then he was weaker than Jiren. Then he is confident he can take out moro. Who is way stronger than Jiren. Do you see the problem?
Broly is written to be boundless. The problem is so is Beerus. Not initially ofc hints all the power scaling, but it is heavily implied based off what the show and manga has given up that Beerus is the strongest there is. Never really sweating when it comes to opponents, that is until Broly arrives on his planet. At the very least Broly is a threat to EVERYONE. Same cannot be said about Jiren
I find it funny that there are still people debating this when the answer is crystal clear, Goku in the manga says that by fusing into Gogeta and defeating Broly they emerged from their previous events(referring to T.O.P) Stronger than ever, this automatically puts Gogeta blue > MUI Goku, and it's not even close No, there is not a huge difference in power between Gogeta Blue and Broly, Broly endured the God Punisher, the Meteor Explosion, and many more attacks, Gogeta was not going lightly, The reason why Broly did not hit any attack is because he was a wrathful beast. If Gogeta had gone directly to God, and not to Blue, Broly would have ended up adapting and becoming stronger, Broly in ssj went from being inferior to base Gogeta (confirmed by the movie guide) to when Gogeta became ssj being able to match him.
@@gabrielvb678 Gogeta could have definitely fought with more ferocity you saw throughout the fight that he started amping up his power Gogeta never fought Broly with full strength in fact he is shown powering up only once in his blue state and was actually happy Broly escaped
This is genuine copium 1. Not only do they not fuse in the manga (it's a 2 panel thing where gogeta quickly taps the events of the movie) unless you're talking bout the novel? And in the novel they never make that statement either 2. Yes there is a super massive gap between gogeta blue and broly, tanking doesnt mean hes even slightly comparable to his opponent (using this exact same logic base goku who was tanking punches from [pre-full power up] jiren wasnt really that far behind him [which is objectively false) 3. The reason why broly didnt land any hits was because he was massively outgapped in EVERY regard. Never compare them again 4. From his fight with gogeta blue it's obvious that even a serious ss3 gogeta couldve beaten broly 5. Using feats base jiren>>>ssj broly (broly couldnt k.o a frieza for over an hour vs jiren oneshotting hin)
You are jiren fan boy Bro that universe 11 god destruction isn’t stronger than beerus whis was just trolling he never said directly that he is stronger than beerus he said it indirectly don’t spread misinformation and he just defeated him in arm wrestling match not a pure fight Where goku said that he is or maybe stronger than beerus Moral of the pov is no one directly claimed that jiren is stronger than beerus but goku maybe directly claimed that broly is or maybe stronger than beerus And note that jiren was ducking fights he was avoiding everyone in a tournament of power where goku and vegeta fought almost everyone so it means goku and vegeta were tired in a situation of jiren because sensobeans wasn’t allowed they were recovering sometimes but not fully if you want to full recovery on that short time then you need to eat sensubeans but it was not allowed so jiren never fought 100% energy levels of goku and vegeta Where goku and vegeta were 100% against broly still broly did 1vs2 them So my opinion is broly is far stronger than jiren but jiren would win because broly can’t control his power he is not a experienced fighter but in a future he would easily toy jiren There is no way jiren is stronger than broly Broly was born with 10k power levels where jiren was vegetable kid (weak) broly is gifted and genetics freak in a terms strength jiren is nothing front of him Even if put this logic that goku and vegeta were tired against jiren because of fighting everyone then this logic makes sense where they were not tired against broly Still broly was toying with them even in their ssjb goku and vegeta So broly is clearly stronger than jiren Broly is underrated and jiren is sometimes overrated so don’t be fan boy be neutral if you comparing two fighters
Bro base gogeta is stronger then the absolute max of goku and vegeta broly pushed gogeta to ssj blue there’s you’re answer broly is stronger than top jiren cause really think about it so you think Mui goku from the top could push gogeta to even go ssj1
Beerus is stronger than belmod, jiren is only stronger than his own destroyer(belmod) not beerus, and we all know that mui goku is still far weaker than beerus. So with these statements we can scale them like this= Belmod
Couldn’t say it better than this video. And crazy is that Manga jiren is even stronger and was able to actually BEAT Mui Goku. It’d be so fire if we could ever see Jiren again to see how strong he’s truly gotten after the Friendship with Toppo and all the others. Just Imagine Jiren with Hakai 💀
Manga Broly washes Jiren, and it’s not even close😂 Jiren wouldn’t even make it past Brolys initial ssj transformation, he’s definitely not beating a enraged FPSSJ Broly who is directly stated to be a rival for Beerus on two different occasions🥱 Jiren was compared to Belmod who is absolute fodder of a GOD and couldn’t beat an initial UI Goku with massive stamina drain. He’s also stated by Vegeta himself too have not been that powerful in the superhero movie while Broly is stated to be stronger than Cell max who beat Golden piccolo and was a rival for Gohan. He also didn’t get one shot by Gohan like Goku did😂 please debate me so I could slam you and anyone who disagrees. There’s too much evidence for y’all to still be debating this then say “iTs NoT A dEbAtE bRo” you, this TH-camr and whoever agrees will get the smack down by me today I got time n ima spit on you with str8 facts fanboi🥱🥱🥱🥱 …this a copy I just wanna debate y’all lames
You mixed 3 continuities in one comment Only time broly was compared to beerus was in end of the movie never happend afterwords Yes jiren was only strong as two blue level characters Yes belmond is weakest god fking fodder But where did UI come form? If your using movie scaling then there's no ui in movies Also gohan beast > completed cell max> broly>incompleted cell max When did goku got one shot?
@@God_Enjoyer movie and manga continuity coexist together, and exactly why the manga did not cover the Broly movie and superhero movie in the manga was a direct rendition of the movie itself. Have you even read the latest chapters? They’re articulated and drawn almost exactly the same as the movie itself so you’re definitely wrong on that account. It was also stated that Broly was the strongest fighter in the superhero promotional material apart from Gohan and “probably” a hypothetical perfect cell max. Which wouldn’t even matter since promotional material and the movie highly suggested that this was an Ikari version of Broly and not ssj or fpssj, who we later see in recent chapters that Broly has been unable to tap into the power he once had against Gogeta. This power showcased clear disdain to Gohan beast who one shot a FP MUI Goku stated to be at his strongest by Whis and Beerus literally within the same chapter. Gohan also states himself that he held back on Goku intentionally so he would not go berserk.
@eynjay8046 no they dont co exist with each other otherwise freeza would've known about fusion as freeza sees kefla in manga They didn't adapted broly movie because they wanted to show moro and movie was already released so no point in adapting it it would take at least a year to finish it There's no point calling ikari verison of broly the strongest viewers don't know how strong he is so they were talking about FPSSJ broly form last movie Even if he taps into it it doesn't matter as goku and vegeta already surpassed him long ago So did goku one shotted beast gohan i mean goku wasnt even taking fight seriously he was more intrested looking at broly And goku also stated it was just Sparring match
You keep showing the Manga scan where it is stated than our god of destruction and combat skill, there is no official statement calling Jiren stronger than all gods it's just hype material, whis keeps throwing statements that don't make sense remember when he said kaioken x10 Goku would beat Beerus, Beerus is considered the strongest god of destruction in the broly novel and other statements if that's the route many use for the hype materials on Jiren and I see it only says a god of destruction on those hype materials not even Black freezer is beerus' lvl. On another note Jiren at full power could barely hold off berserk Broly in XenoVerse 2 closest vs we will ever get
Untrue, The anime literally states Jiren is above the God of destructions not as promotion but as the actual plot of the show. There is no way anyone can conclude that was just filler hype. Second as for your xenoverse 2 claim, Fu distorts history to make broly even stronger. Literally in that level the supreme kai of time flat out says broly is now as strong as BLUE GOGETA. So this Broly is way stronger than the movie one and to make matters worse for him, Jiren fights him with no buffs to jiren and he still wins. We know Jiren wins cuz the mission is literally defeat broly, and after the cutscene the defeat broly win condtion is met and checked off. SO yea Even with fu powering up broly in ur xenoverse 2 claim Jiren beats him. SO then you would have to say Gogeta blue is weaker than Jiren
@@WildFang39 there is sooo much wrong with your analogy but let me explain, in the anime whis' clearly says "so the rumors are true there is a mortal a god of destruction can not defeat" I say again he said a not plural just one and it's belmod being referred there could be a few others but that's all, next up it says broly can survive attacks from blue Gogeta which is consistent if you ever watched the movie, nowhere does Fu ever state or is even stated broly was buffed normally in xeno and I'm sure you're unaware of this whenever the villain is amped the become black-grayish with red eyes broly is normal and clearly shown through dialogue and the cutscenes Jiren is struggling against broly and the parallel universe they are in collapse after Fu gets his energy, jiren never wins and struggles immensely obviously broly in xeno is wayyy stronger than the anime but the games in it Always maintain the chain of power, it is extremely constitent
@@wanted2657 when it comes to the placement of cannon characters and their power in lore, XenoVerse is consistent as is Kakarot especially kakarot since toyirama (rip) overlooked story aspects that were added and weren't in the anime or manga Not saying it's super reliable but it's a good basis in wait for the show to return and officially answer these questions
@@superrobo if you believe what I'm saying is wrong then there's no saving you but I'll give it one last attempt before giving up on you. 1. The anime statement id have to pull up more information on but I'm mainly here for dbx2 point but I'll briefly comment on the anime one. When whis says there is a mortal that not even a God of destruction can defeat. That is plural in the sense it is a general blanket statement. If I say not even a doctor can treat cancer that doesn't mean only one can't and the rest could potentially. It means no doctor amongst all of them can treat your cancer. So in the anime when whis says that he is referring to all of them not just one. We only try to pretend he is saying one cuz obviously as per the manga we know beerus's goal post moved. Plus you can ignore this if it is wrong but didn't beerus react In a way that is implied he was being targeted in that statement as well? If you have a clip of the scene please send it so we can see together cuz I can't find it and am purely speaking out of memory for that specific point. 2. As per the dbx2 where I do have the entire mission right in front of me in game on my Xbox right now, literally the supreme Kai of time word by word says "broly NOW has the power to keep up with Gogeta After he turns SSBlue!!! How are we gonna fix this one?!!" Also the mission clearly says defeat broly. So based on story telling and progression of the game. If Jiren lost to broly who was the only capable fighter on the battle field cuz everyone Including your character were out of the battle field. How did they fix the timeline? If Broly won then the timeline is failed. If Jiren won then balance is restored and the next mission can progress. My friend there is no conceivable way broly won that fight. Narrative implications as well as story progression clearly point towards Jiren winning that fight. Also Jiren just transformed for the sake of it. He didn't even fight broly prior to transforming. Broly was too fixated on Goku as Jiren again pure quotes from the thing says "why won't you fight me?" Then transforms saying "You will fight me beast". So I could maybe give you the first point cuz idc about that but the dbx2 you are 1000% wrong
You just can't use the anime and manga, they are 2 different continuities and these arguments are so bad. Broly and Jiren are both enemies since they are both called such in the promotional material, goku from blue in his second fight in the ToP was able to fight jiren on equal terms to his UI omen counterpart, trading blows and parrying attacks, so he got massively stronger, since he wasn't even in SSJBK20 but just in SSJB, then lost, got a zenkai, lost in UI, got MUI, his body gave up and got another zenkai, the first zenkai was a boost greater than 20 times, and he got at least 2 others since he lost MUI and then got fatigued and damaged when throwing jiren off the stage with frieza. So he is bare minimum more than 400+ times stronger than a hypothetical SSJBK20 goku who fought jiren in his MUI fight, who would be 400+ times stronger than his first jiren fight (he should be much stronger, since he also fought kefla) and he didn't even bother going SSJBK20 or telling vegeta to go SSJBE, so he thought that the difference between yellow hair SSJ Broly (who is weaker than green hair LSSJ Broly) was greater than the difference between pre awakening jiren and him at full power and vegeta, and they'd both be 400+ times stronger here, but he thought that broly grew way too strong, then broly proceeded to fight for an entire hour, which was much longer than the duration of his past fight with vegeta, goku and both if them put together, so he at least grew more in that hour than what he did in the past 3 fights, and in some minutes he grew hundreds of times stronger only against vegeta, since he went from base vegeta level to at least stronger than SSJ2 vegeta level, since vegeta felt the need to go SSJG, then got a 10× boost with hikari and went from below SSJG vegeta level to SSJB goku level, then used a 50× multiplier with SSJ which would be only 5× times stronger than ikari and then fought for one hour, then grew against base Gogeta, who went SSJ and Broly adapted, so Gogeta went SSJB and Broly was growing stronger, he even went into LSSJ and grew more, but the gap was much greater than what Broly could do so he lost. If you took initial Broly vs Jiren, Jiren would win, but if you took both at full power Broly would rip Jiren apart, it wouldn't even be close
Jiren knocked out MUI Goku in the manga. Beast Gohan who's comparable to MUI Goku fought Broly and Broly was struggling at full power vs Gohan. So we can conclude that Jiren > Broly. Even Whis mentions Jiren has limitless potential.
@@noire.blackheart no that is just horrible, ssbe vegeta from the moro arc is stronger than mui goku from the top, broly was also stated to be the strongest "man" ever and that when he unleashes his power "none" can stop him, in the manga it's a horrible mismatch even worse than the anime, since broly would probably butcher jiren, and taking top jiren isn't fair to him since he'd probably loose to current ssjg goku or worse
@@ΦάντασματοῦΘεοῦ Moro says that Vegeta blue evolved is not even close to Goku's sign, there is no comparison between this Vegeta vs Goku, Vegeta becomes stronger than Jiren and Broly with the ultra ego
@@eynjay8046Broly isn’t stronger initially, just give Broly enough time and he surpasses Jiren if it doesn’t end quickly. High diff for Jiren but Extreme Diff for Broly. You can say that SSBKX20 Goku > Broly Movie SSB Goku and you can see the differences. Supressed Jiren easily dealt with a SSBK and SSBE Goku and Vegeta + a Blue Level Android 17. Broly made a later on stronger Goku and Vegeta In their Blue forms turn tail and run the moment he went into his Wrathful SSJ state. Assuming that this Blue Goku and Vegeta might be a smidge stronger than the their TOP variants, it would literally look like an equal fight, but Jiren clearly has the upper hand if you look at it more clearly. From what it seems to me Jiren > SSJ Wrathful Broly Jiren < FPSSJ Broly Awakened Jiren >= FPSSJ Broly Would this also mean Broly would beat a MUI Goku? No. Jiren initially is stronger, that’s all there is, it’s only a proposed scenario that allows Broly to win.
Hasn't Jiren been training ever since he got his ass beat by Goku? So imagine a Jiren with even more power and speed than before, with actual technique and style instead of just raw strength. So i'd say Jiren can easily manhandle Broly considering Broly has to stay in Berserk for quite a bit of time (around like 1 hour 30 mins) to even reach Full Power Mastered SSB level in the Broly movie. So using that with a slightly higher multiplier cause he hasn't went Berserk since, he'd be like UI ~Sign~ level if Jiren wouldn't pull a Android 17 and beat his ass on the spot instead of waiting nearly 2 hours for bro to reach Ui strength.
Isn't this just a hypothetical jiren? That's is by all accounts not fair as you could make him how ever strong you wanted if you say we're using jiren after the top
Jiren already has teqnique he was trained by his old master as a kid who was a martial artist. He isnt just raw strength.You can clearly see that by how hes able to control his ki so easily and the way hes so calm fighting ui omen goku. He didnt start using raw strength until he broke his limits to push mui goku. Plus he has never trained with his angel or recieved any god training all his strength was earned by himself. His own strength already rivaled gods even surpassing them. So post top jiren that is continuing training is overkill. Broly is just raw strength nothing else hes getting mandhandled everytime in a fight against jiren whos not only a martial artist but is flat out smarter, faster, and more powerful. Never understood this debate broly was never above jiren.
@@kingbevan1993 again isn't this just an assumption? Weve seen it before that character or atleast antagonist from past arcs with supposed crazy potential become washed or standardised if they returned. So again using a post top jiren is by all accounts cheating as we could literally make him as strong as we'd want him to be with no conformation at all
@@XRaiden1 dawg frieza is a frequent returning past antagonist with crazy potential. He was nothing after Z returned years later in rof rivaling ssb. He was left in the dust during top came back arcs later and now is the strongest character in the series outside of dieties. This is litterally due to training and honing his potential. Dude even broly who after broly movie was basically fodder due to goku and vegeta achieving new heights and fighting way stronger villians came back years later in superhero seeing much more improvement than before. Same theme he trained. Jiren definitly would be way stronger now. Somebody who bases his whole identity/purpose off absolute strength and has trained to reach that goal before would just stop because he lost one time. Even in jirens absence goku and vegeta till this day brings up jiren despite how strong they have gotten since then. Vegeta even taking jirens style of meditation seeing him as still a fighter to admire and learn from.
@@XRaiden1 So again where is this whole idea antagonist from past arcs become washed? Most antagonist in db are dead and dont even return. previous antagonist arent even antagonist anymore example being piccolo and vegeta. Even granolah was redeemed. Only character that statement kind of applies to is hit. Even then top hit in the manga has stated hes trained physically and relied less on his timeskip since his fight with goku back in u6 arc. its actually shown he improved physically when he teamed up with goku against jiren with goku amazed as to how well hit was able to block jirens punches. Unfortunatly hits opponent was jiren of all people so in that case he looked washed. Regardless if you train you can climb to the top and thats even more true if your gifted already.
Um u do realize that broly would adapt to be stronger then jerin right cuz he started being weaker then suppresses base vegeta and in 30 minutes he's now as strong as super sayain blue goku and vegeta combined and don't say jerin would instantly use his full power in the turnement of power he went slowly until he reached his max
I hate dragon ball fans bc goku saying someone stronger than beerus isn't accurate at all like GOKU HAS NEVER FOUGHT A FULL POWER BEERUS SND BEERUS HIMSELF HAS NEVER WORRIED ABOUT BROLY OR ANYONE smh whis statements are the only one who statements would matter
Goku has seen Beerus fight during the GOD exhibition in the manga. If you guys used the most up to date and real logic..eg. the manga for super you would have known this for years. Broly beats Jiren 10/10 times, and Belmod was always fodder/Quitela beat him in arm wrestling/to a standstill. You “fans” are disappointing
@@God_Enjoyer no he states “everyone is so powerful their strength is mind blowing” he then states how he can’t see who’s fighting who, and it’s been established since original dragon ball that what they cannot see they can sense. They also have God ki so saying they cannot sense another God is a slow take.
@@eynjay8046Velmod is not fodder. Compared to other gods maybe. But fodder god would be sidra and still his full power would be blue kioken goku level
@@Scalerlord not fodder as in weak per say , fodder as that lvl of power has been one shot capable since the Moro arc as we have seen Moro 73 one shot UI sign Goku who was comparable if not slightly above his TOP self at that moment. If they get one shot they’re officially fodder
broly also has the statements of being the strongest in the super hero promotional material, and has a statement that only if cell max was fully completed then not even broly could win by toriyama. so if you do count toriyamas words then broly can beat the same cell max that gohan beat, who both gohan and cell max have numerous statements for their power being above goku aswell. (not current goku post super hero)
@@abp_gvo_2275 that would contradict the statement made about Gohan and Cell Max being the strongest battle in history which put it over full power Broly and suppressed Gogeta
@@ty-ray1307no it doesn’t contradict the statement because the broly movie came out before the Super hero movie which means the statement from the broly movie only applies to the events that happened before the Broly movie what are you talking about this is basic knowledge
@@legendseeker6944 I think you are confused The top comment believes that the Broly that fought Gogeta is being used as the bar against a completed cell max while I am arguing that they were referring to a superhero Broly as the measuring stick Gohan vs Cell Max was said to be the strongest battle in history meaning the power displayed in their final clash has to be greater than that of Full power Broly and a suppressed Blue Gogeta So I disagree with the take that Broly movie Broly is stronger than Cell Max
Put it like this. Jiren is stronger than HIS universes god of destruction, the clown belmont. While Broly is compared to beerus the strongest god of destruction. It’s obvious Broly is is just written to be stronger.
so you think MUI Goku beats SSJ Gogeta right? If not then you just proved the point as to Why Gogeta is brought up bc UNLESS the multiplier is SO big then WHY would Goku waste time fusing instead of tapping into MUI, yk why bc MUI & FP Jiren would get clapped by Broly simple as that
@@tinytitan8807 first of all not what I said at all second to easily debunk your fodder ass, Goku in Moro arc said he has never been able to access UI ever since the tourney even when he tries to. So yea he couldn't do it regardless
@@WildFang39 so you think mui multiplier beats fusion multiplier, yes or no? Bc even so Goku DIDN'T even try not once is he like," Damn, this guy is tough maybe I could try access UI like in the tournament" yk TRY or ATTEMPT to use it but he doesn't bc Broly is TOO strong for simply MUI so he needs fusion. At NO point in ToP, did Goku ever feel the need to fuse to beat Jiren even at the behest of Supreme Kai both G&V despite the lives of U7 at stake choose rather to work tohether individually than fuse bc they were confident in their ability. See the difference one opponent so great Goku had to use power of God's while another was so great G&V had to abandon pride and fuse to a new being to beat him.
@@WildFang39 your initial claim is bring up Gogeta in the Broly vs Jiren debate should be irrelevant but I'm saying No it should bc Gogeta the fact that Gogeta was needed is proof alone that Broly is more of a threat and by proxy stronger than Jiren.
Jiren was slapping around ssb goku kaioken 20 , vegeta blue evolution and 17 in base form , not even full power base form. But there's a catch, dragon ball super power scaling is garbage 😂
Broly Movie SSB and Top SSB aren’t equal but the Broly Movie SSB is just a little stronger by assumption, the zenkais given after the TOP would be substantial but we don’t know much.
In my opinion it would have been cool if Goku was able to go mui against broly but it somehow still not be enough and to the point where his body gives out again and thus forcing the fusion at that point that way we would have a direct model for comparison between the two fights
Let Broly and Goku fight until he taps into ultra instinct again, kill krillin to speed it up and then see what happens. Broly will be begging for Jiren to show up
U do realise that broly forced goku and vegeta to run away and fuse right. Goku and vegeta never even thought about fusion against jiren when there universe was at stake
I don't think Vegeta knew how to do the fusion dance. In the DBS Broly movie he had to be thought how to do it and even then they failed at least twice. If they tried to do it at the T.O.P they would be taking a huge risk of getting eliminated. Also unless Jiren let them fuse they would have trouble fusing while getting attacked
Broly is most likely more powerful than TOP MUI goku and jiren… however, I really don’t see broly landing a hit on MUI because of his lack of control. Jiren was literally the epitome of insane ki control
In superhero it was stated that cellmax would be stronge rthsn broly at his fp if he was at his completed state. Beast gohan who is shown to surpass mui goku,the same mui goku that shit on jiren, struggled with cellmax when he was weakened and current broly is arguably weaker than he was in earth in terms of power. Vegeta and goku also said that power= speed,strength,senses,etc. So if broly is superior to beast gohan and mui goku at his peak in terms of actaul power. Then broly ( at his peak)>beast gohan>mui goku
Before watching the video i give my thoughts on jiren vs broly in toriyama's eyes jiren fought 3 blue level characters (goku vegeta freeza) and was defeated using teamwork Broly too fought two blue level characters and overpowered them and only way to defeat was to fuse For me broly is stronger of the two
Ok this video is flawed from the start. The anime and manga have two different powerscales and shouldn't be conflated with one another. In the anime Jiren is above Beerus and all the gods of destruction. In the manga Jiren is better at fighting than Belmond but in terms of power still weaker than him and Beerus. This evidenced by MUI Goku who in the anime surpasses Beerus but is weaker than him in the manga. If Broly is in the anime he's more powerful than Jiren by a huge margin as he is in the manga. He's slightly above Beerus with FP Ikari SSJ.
In the manga you clearly see beerus is stronger than all the other gods of destruction they have a free for all and all of them attack beerus first. Belmod couldn't hold a candle to beerus 😂
Not exactly, he dodged them all because of Ultra Instinct, although the fact that Vermouth, Quitela and Beerus remained standing implies that they are a little stronger.
If it's manga versions Broly stomps, Jiren hasn't appeared since ToP while Broly is only getting stronger. Anime is tricky cus Jiren has these weird beyond GoD statements, all of them are super vague though. Broly also has statements being above any previous enemy (and Jiren was called an enemy 3 times in ToP), Broly is also stated above Imperfect Cell Max who is above Goku and Vegeta in the movie. Broly is also directly stated stronger than Jiren and that Jiren is literally only ssbe vegeta from top level but with better control lmfao
What's crazy to me people still believe Goku in the universe tournament took a W in 1vs1 with Jiren 😂. Ofc MUI Goku gave hard beating to Jiren and at both peaks of power he was more powerful than Awakend Jiren, BUT Goku's body couldn't handle this power, that's why he couldn't finish off Jiren. Jiren had more durability and strength and if not Frieza and 17, Jiren would've simply knock Goku off(Frieza saved Goku's a**). What's also crazy Jiren had even more power to fight Goku, Frieza and 17 after all of that and still managed to get Goku and Frieza.
I disagree, the manga and anime have different continuities and interpretations of characters power and some of the promotional material for jiren and broly are identical. “Power that surpasses the gods”. Vegeta even states jiren wasn’t that much stronger than them in the super hero movie and only had better control over his power. Goku and vegeta have gotten way stronger since then and beerus is clearly the strongest god of destruction in the manga while the anime makes it seem as tho goku has already surpassed him. Even toriyama has stated they are different but both canonical. So it’s kinda weird to compare different continuities when the intent is clearly different
Manga Broly washes Jiren, and it’s not even close😂 Jiren wouldn’t even make it past Brolys initial ssj transformation, he’s definitely not beating a enraged FPSSJ Broly who is directly stated to be a rival for Beerus on two different occasions🥱 Jiren was compared to Belmod who is absolute fodder of a GOD and couldn’t beat an initial UI Goku with massive stamina drain. He’s also stated by Vegeta himself too have not been that powerful in the superhero movie while Broly is stated to be stronger than Cell max who beat Golden piccolo and was a rival for Gohan. He also didn’t get one shot by Gohan like Goku did😂 please debate me so I could slam you and anyone who disagrees. There’s too much evidence for y’all to still be debating this then say “iTs NoT A dEbAtE bRo” you, this TH-camr and whoever agrees will get the smack down by me today I got time n ima spit on you with str8 facts fanboi🥱🥱🥱🥱
@@eynjay8046 then make your own comment so that more people can see you and have a debate nobody is gonna have a argument here so make your own comment.
I’m tired of these DB scalers on TikTok who don’t think. 😂 this is my favorite debate and I’m glad someone said something with simple facts said over and over in the actual anime/manga for once.
Jiren is written to be stronger than Broly in the anime, but in the manga it is the other way around. In the anime we know that SSB fusion would not beat Jiren, Vegeto Blue was compared to Beerus not long before that, so if Beerus makes that claim, then it for sure means that Jiren is not a joke and the fusion is way too risky. If fusion in the anime was that much stronger, then he wouldn't have said that. This makes UI stronger because that was the powerup used to surpass the gods by the end of the TOP. Also in the anime, we know that Belmod won against Beerus in raw power due to arm wrestling, there isn't much trickery Belmod can do to overpower Beerus, and if Jiren is beyond Belmod while not going all out, i mean, it's plain and simple from here on out... In the manga, things are different, fusion is written to be stronger. Belmod is not as strong as Beerus, quitela is... belmod is still up there in power overall, but the top 2 and rivals are Quitela and Beerus. So Jiren is compared to a weaker god than Beerus, and Broly was compared to Beerus, the strongest god. So logically... Broly is the strongest of the 2. In dragon ball heroes (yes, even this BS gets called out). The prison realm/planet arc they made with the introduction of Cumber (this was right after the TOP in DBS), they wrote SSBKK20 Vegetto to be much weaker than UI. He was struggling with Cumber in both the manga and anime. At the end of that battle, the same Cumber got stomped by UI Goku with low effort. Then we see UI omen being stronger than UI when Goku receives training from GP and at the end of that entire universal seed arc which happened right after the prison one, we see Gogeta Blue, the same Gogeta from Broly movie, stomping universal seed hearts, who claimed to have a source of power stronger than the omniking... While previously UI Goku was struggling against a much weaker opponent that was using the universal seed to power itself. The reason they did the 180 with these characters and powers, is because someone wanted them to fix the mistake they made. Conclusion, i am fairly certain that the real intention here was that Jiren was never as strong as he was meant to be in the anime. They made him too strong and then suddently started nerfing him. When the anime returns, he will be nerfed again to follow closely to the manga material, essentially a retcon is going to happen, some people will be pissed because it breaks the logic of the anime all of a sudden. The writters for the anime also f'ed up when introducing the U11 fighter to fight Goku in that exhibition match. They had originally intended to make Jiren show up, not toppo. Now i have no clue if they were going to use Jiren as the real Jiren, or they were going to switch the plot and having Jiren become Toppo. Which would mean Toppo would have been the real threat from U11. Anyways, what matters is that they f'ed up and they corrected next episode the issue. At the end of the episode they showed a different character from what we had seen in the next episode, if they fixed it, then it means the stuff that was written, was not following proper guidelines as intended by the supreme writter at the time, which was akira. I like both characters... but if i had to pick a favorite, it would be jiren. I like his design and personality to some extent. So if Jiren is my favorite and i have stated all this, perhaps what i said actually makes sense...? I mean, him being the strongest would be nice but we have to be real here and look at everything we have at display. The anime 100% is gonna get a retcon and will be rewritten to follow the manga source, mark my words. They can't continue to follow their own path, forcing the franchise to have 2 different story telling approaches, it would create confusion... unless they step forward and make a statement saying that each thing is its own thing, like different timelines occuring at the sametime but with slightly different results. Also we can see other changes from manga vs anime in other arcs too. Future trunks arc was another one...
its crazy to me that even tho in the manga beerus made it clear he is stronger than both ultra instinct goku and hakai vegeta yall still make it sound like jiren is stronger than beerus plus the fact that even after 2 extra arcs and multiple powers ups goku in a better and stronger version of ultra instinct was on par with beast gohan who fought on par with broly who adapted to gohan and even unlocked a controlled super saiyan form even ignoring that the manga itself proved you wrong about jiren being stronger than beerus unless you want to say tornament of power jiren at full power is on the same level as hakai vegeta or ui goku from the current arcs then jiren stands no chance against broly
I think it'd be very close, but I could see Jiren winning if they're both going all out. Jiren is a very well put together fighter, so he could fairly easily determine strategies to deal with Broly imo. Broly is a rampaging beast, and Jiren constantly remarks that just having high power means little if you can hardly control it. There is the chance that all that power does wind up allowing him to simply just push through Jiren's attacks, since he managed to go fairly full force against Gogeta without being super devastated. All in all, tough call.
Alot of this arguement becomes baseless, when you realize you used 2 different continuties, as a single answer. Both are different (manga and anime), potrayed the fights/characters differently, especially goku and the maincast. So alot of this evidence dosent work........
DBZ Movie 14 Battle Of Gods; Saiyan God Goku 6. Lord Beerus 10. Whis 15. DBZ Movie 15 Resurrection F, Super Saiyan Blue Goku 7. It was also stated by Whis if Goku & Vegeta teamed they could defeat Lord Beerus. This statement is key, remember it. DBS Movie 16 Broly; Goku Blue & Vegeta Blue with teamwork cannot defeat Broly’s Limit Breaker. Prior to this, Goku Blue was beating SSJ Broly. Essentially u can call SSJ Broly equal to Goku Blue, even tho, Goku Blue had the advantage in that fight. In the Tournament Of Power, Goku Blue Kaio-Ken x20 & Vegeta Blue Evolution cannot defeat Jiren The Grey 100%. M.U.I. Goku is a Limit Breaker. Jiren’s enraged creates his Limit Breaker. Fans don’t like to accept this, but based on the Lore of The Movies. Which is canon events directly from Akira Toriyama. As well as Super Anime. M.U.I. Goku surpassed Lord Beerus 10. Jiren 100% is Massively Overwhelmingly & Exceedingly Stronger than SSJ Broly. We know this bcuz Goku Blue was beatin SSJ Broly. However, Broly’s Likiter Breaker is Massively, Overwhelmingly & Exceedingly Stronger than Jiren The Grey’s Limit Breaker. When it comes to 100% Maximum Power Level, Jiren beats Broly. When it comes to Limit Breaker’s, Broly beats Jiren. Remember, Goku Blue Kaio-Ken x20 & Vegeta Blue Evolution are equals. I’m DBZ Movie 15, Whis clearly stated, Goku & Vegeta together can defeat Lord Beerus. Goku & Vegeta cannot beat Jiren 100% Maximum Power Level. Goku can beat SSJ Broly w/o Vegeta. Goku & Vegeta cannot beat Broly’s Limit Breaker. This shows Jiren & Broly are relative, even tho, Broly’s Limit Breaker is Stronger than Jiren’s Limit Breaker. The contention between fans is due to accepting the manga while rejecting the anime. That’s illogical. When it comes to canon of Super. The DBZ/ DBS Movies are Tier 1 canon bcuz made by Akira Toriyama. The movies are his will. The anime follows Toriyama’s will, with interference by Toei Animation.. Tier 2 canon. Toyotaro’s DB Super Manga is Tier 3 Canon. The power level hierarchy connects. The Anime & Movies are interlinked & connected, whereas there are disconnects in the manga do to differences. The power hierarchy of Broly being Stronger than Jiren connects in the manga.
In the manga it implies that Brolys ssj is different, so i dont think it is actually a 50 times multiplier like the normal ssj, however since we dont know what the multiplier is officialy so i guess its fair.
broly is all brute he isn’t very strategic and tends to rely on his instinct however jiren is more strategic and technically better martial artist so I would lean towards jiren possibly outsmarting and overpowering Broly but Broly infinite growth could tip to scale so it’s really is difficult in my opinion.
bruh seems like you skipped all chapters of the manga and ignored the parts where beerus made is clear he was still stronger than goku and vegeta and even black freiza making the statment about belmund being stronger than beerus invalid and probably just whiz taunting beerus to train more you make it sound like whiz has never made a mistake or told a lie also didnt vegeta later said that jirens ki wasnt that bigger than thiers jiren just had better ki control ? broly was also fighting against beast gohan thats stronger than the version of goku that fought jiren get all your facts right bruh dont just make stuff up to fit your narrative
You need to follow me for I am Jesus himself and I am beyond the concept of Omnipotence to the point that my chipped teeth can erase Infinite Transcendental Realms that transcends Infinite Omniverses that contain 15 tiers of Transcending cosmology that makes Lovecraft, Buddhism, Stephen King and SCP look Infintesimal.
Ok but heres the thing using this logic for the conclusion, current Goku should also be stronger than the gods by a long shot right? yet hes still not beating Beerus this will have to mean that Jiren was only stronger than Belmod and any weaker G.o.Ds and whether you think Goku knows how strong Beerus is at his best would decide if you think hes right by saying Broly is on that level and I do believe Goku has seen Beerus at his full power before (just hasnt directly faught him in it)
Ssj broly slams jiren also toppo said in terms of combat skill. Not power and the manag top corrected what happened in the anime top so the manga top is the mkre accurate version to go off of. So jiren is only superior to belmod in combat,not power. Vegeta also said that jiren wasn't even that much stronger than them. So jiren is only in their level in his fp state, and rhen again mui goku beat the breaks off that same jiren who is inferior to broly in terms of power.
3:41 ion believe goku and Broly were even I think goku was slightly stronger bc ssb would have defeated Broly . Thats why Frieza killed Paragus bc he saw that Broly was losing to ssb .
Jiren (TOP) vs Broly (DBS MOVIE BROLY) If it's a battle where they start from a base form i'd say jiren wins if he doesn't let broly go FP If it's a battle where broly uses his green haired form which let''s say is equal to SSG gogeta on the broly movie then broly wins cause SSB gogeta from broly movie>MUI goku TOP arc and since the broly movie is a arc ahead of the TOP goku and vegeta would've gotten stronger so fusing into gogeta would be more stronger than a TOP gogeta if that ever happend so SSG Gogeta from broly movie is basically broly's legendary form power LSS Broly=SSG gogeta>MUI Goku>Jiren
To put the anwser short Jiren would win bc of how he used his power and his experience carry too and put him down quickly and thats how jiren would win,But if Broly keeps adapting he will mostly likely push jiren to his FP and tbh it would not be an ez for Lssjfp broly unless he keeps adaping but for me Broly wins mid high diff (This fight would break the Internet again if it happens 💀)
The reason you're wrong is because current Broly is stronger than Broly movie Broly. That's a unfair look at their power. That said it's also important to note that Belmond is not as powerful as Beerus. In the manga it is obviously shown that Beerus outclasess many of the other Gods. Exceptions being the one's form universe 1 and 12. The only other GoD that comes close is Champa.
T.O.P Jiren stomps. For one base Jiren would legit blink broly away he's easily still stronger than ssbkkx20 Goku and blue evo Vegeta. Ikari is the same case as even if Jiren toyed with broly till he got there he is still not even above blue goku. There is no scenario where he would achieve ssj he would just simply get stronger in ikari until he basically stamina drained he would never reach anything near his ssj power. But let's say he does, Jiren LEGITIMATELY see him in a beserker state, remember kale/kefla, and one tap him using his FP in base. (not limit bfeaker) The only way you get broly equal to Jiren is by using his fpssj state but that isn't possible. AGAIN we're tossing broly a bone and saying hes already enraged and is in fpssj after getting his by ssj gogeta a couple of times. Equal standings drop both of these characters a max power and jiren still facepalms broly into vampas core. Jiren has more BIQ, is just way more intelligent, Is physically stronger (until broly adapts) and legit has weapons from the pride troopers, we've just never seen them used since the T.O.P banned shit like that. And even if you argue a current broly, a hypothetical current Jiren still obliterates, he keeps training. At that point broly gon lose to everybody he a fraud that is NOT my goat. Ssj3 Z Broly one taps super broly no diff 🗣️🔥🔥🔥
Bruh it never said a surpressed jiren was stronger it just said a mortal stronger than the gods it never said in which state and if you think beginning TOP goku is beating beerus you gotta go😂
1st of all we haven’t seen the god of destructions full power yet and in the fight they had everyone was going for beerus and he was still doing well which puts him over belmod, second jiren isn’t literally stronger than his GOD there’s in proof to this and beerus wasn’t going full power whatsoever against super saiyan god goku 4th brolys fight took place after ToP so goku was just way stronger at this point in time and broly did land like 3 hits in ssjb gogeta which is unarguably stronger than ToP mui goku and he took multiple hits from him ntm they literally broke time and space mid fight, something jiren and goku didn’t do
if thats your answer that Jiren is stronger than Broly, Then I guess your answer to SSB Gogeta Vs MUI Goku is MUI Goku is stronger than SSB Gogeta? right?
Y'all be forgetting Vegeta in the superhero movie literally said Jiren wasn't that far off in terms of power, he wasn't much more powerful than ssb he just knew how to control his ki much better.
No way people are still debating Broly VS Jiren in big 2024.
People do it all the time but the answer has always been obvious.
@@ProfessorDantijiren? :D
@@KaiserX18broly low diffs
Big 2024? Bro please 😭🙏
FR BROLY NEGS💀
Broly has cool hair that changes color. He probably wins because his toys will sell better.
Or broly is stronger due to the fact that goku was stronger during his fight than he was in the tournament of power, his ultra instinct form is stronger and he has a better mastery of it, yet broly is still stronger than him
Plot armor = Broly withstands jirens onslaught, slowly adapts and eventually beats brolly.
Reality = jiren puts broly down quickly but not to quick, understanding and realizing his adaptability
Jiren would push broly to his best like he did against everyone else wouldn’t settle for less
@@Zeil_tha_dragonyall both wrong the statement was jiren is stronger then his god who is not really stated to be stronger then beerus 🤷🏾♂️before bro died he made dragon ball super hero’s and he was fixing wat the anime messed up by they statements that’s y vegeta said jiren wasn’t really that much stronger then them it was cuz him meditating n having better ki control n because vegeta understood that he was able to beat goku 💯 that’s y the manga made jiren much weaker and made u see that beerus was stronger then the other gods cuz the anime messed up how strong jiren was supposed to be to the anime tend to do this buu vs vegito the anime made Vegito way stronger then he was in the manga
@@emptyx9593Jiren wasn't much far in terms of strength you ment
I mean it's Canon that jiren didn't just one shot goku even though he was "growing in power" not to mention broly's potential to grow is WAY higher than goku. So jiren taking a very long time and toying with goku is Canon for him. I still think jiren would win 6/10 but saying 9/10 is being super biased and making them fight in a way they never would.
@@parkerjunior1 strength in dragon ball determines on how powerful ur level is
Broly didn’t have training after the movie super hero movie said so broly should be somewhere around that powerful he was at still when he fights goku n gohan and goten n the manga meaning broly is stronger the jiren n the manga n if they adapted into the anime when it returns would place broly above jiren
3:45 Vegeta interviened in the fight? I'm 100% sure it was Frieza the one that was not pleased with the fight and decided to killed Paragus
was probs a mistake left in
Fr
what do you mean Paragus was killed by a stray blast (frieza worker)
@@kalebburgess8337 frieza killed him bro
@@akshaajdhalta205noooo it was a stray blast, frieza said so himself and he wouldn’t lie would he?
Assuming Broly starts as FPSSJ he wins. He has a much faster rate of growth and he is outright stated to be the strongest enemy in history. And yes, Jiren is an enemy, he is verbatim called an enemy in eposode titles and statements in the ToP. If we ignore promotional material sure Jiren has more steps in his scaling chain, but that doesn't inherently mean he's stronger than Broly who is just an unknown amount above Beerus.
horrible take not only did jiren over power mui but he’s def been training and has gotten way stronger then he was b4 he oneshots broly
@@Toddles we don't see it so who cares
@@Toddles MUI is weaker that novel base Gogeta
@@Toddles Were not talking a hypothetical current Jiren, were going off ToP Jiren and movie Broly my man.
Broly isnt above Beerus , not even in anime , in manga Beerus is way stronger than Broly , in anime we dont know .
Dragon ball debates are so hilarious that even if a fight has happened people will still debate about it
yeah it's called being passionate, it's what makes DB fanbase more unique than other fanbases even without content for several months we still take and converse amongst each other. Love it or hate it you gotta appreciate the passion
By stating this you imply that t.o.p mui is stronger than post t.o.p ssb gogeta. Which is absolutely absurd if true but I don't think it is. Beerus was shown being the strongest in the manga, the statements made by whis in the anime just doing make sense to you look at the rest of super.
I just think broly wins this.
God bless,
No? Broly doesn't scale to SSJB Gogeta, he got danced on despite powering up and having the time to adapt. Using Gogeta as a argument is nonsensical unless you're trying to argue for SSJ Gogeta
Broly Didnt even Scale to SSJ2 Gogeta what are you on about. Broly will get man handled by Jiren
MUI is heavily implied to be above even potara, forget about the fusion dance
The battle could go either way but broly can win by using his exponential growth if jiren lets him play around
@@NeonSwordsManFangattack Saying Broly doesn’t scale to Gogeta is absolutely crazy and just factually incorrect on every level.
The last attack Broly had “landed” against Gogeta was the was when in his SSJFP state, he had a relatively even punch-to-punch clash with SSB Gogeta. Aside from that Gogeta was forced to skip SSG, use SSB and had to dodge all of Broly’s attacks.
It’s also been stated that Broly vid Gogeta was a fight in which ‘either of them could’ve gone down many times’ by Nagamine in his interview.
I know Saikyo Medium jump had pretty much stated that if Broly had control over himself, he most likely would’ve beaten that SSB Gogeta as well.
Broly does confidently scale to Gogeta in terms of power and as a fighter (overall) as well, no debate.
Ok, so several problems.
1. The "He's not really an enemy" is pure semantics. When you have to become hyperliteral about specific wording of a statement, that's when you know that you're grasping at straws.
2. On top of that the statement of strongest enemy is backed up in the movie. Goku states that he believed his strength was reaching it's peak (Referring to his fight with Jiren.) But after meeting someone so much stronger that him (Broly) he's changed his mind. Which suggests once again that Broly is a far greater challenge than Jiren was.
3. The fact that fusion with ssj blue was considered the only way to stop Broly is also a testament to this.
4. Statements regarding beerus should just be ignored at this point. Because every single time he is compared to someone, he is even stronger than before. First he was only slightly stronger than ssj god. Then he was well above super saiyan blue, then he was compared to vegito and zamasu. Then he was weaker than Jiren. Then he is confident he can take out moro. Who is way stronger than Jiren. Do you see the problem?
Broly is written to be boundless. The problem is so is Beerus. Not initially ofc hints all the power scaling, but it is heavily implied based off what the show and manga has given up that Beerus is the strongest there is. Never really sweating when it comes to opponents, that is until Broly arrives on his planet. At the very least Broly is a threat to EVERYONE. Same cannot be said about Jiren
I find it funny that there are still people debating this when the answer is crystal clear, Goku in the manga says that by fusing into Gogeta and defeating Broly they emerged from their previous events(referring to T.O.P) Stronger than ever, this automatically puts Gogeta blue > MUI Goku, and it's not even close
No, there is not a huge difference in power between Gogeta Blue and Broly, Broly endured the God Punisher, the Meteor Explosion, and many more attacks, Gogeta was not going lightly, The reason why Broly did not hit any attack is because he was a wrathful beast.
If Gogeta had gone directly to God, and not to Blue, Broly would have ended up adapting and becoming stronger, Broly in ssj went from being inferior to base Gogeta (confirmed by the movie guide) to when Gogeta became ssj being able to match him.
The novel stated that Gogeta used a “hint” of his true power so no Broly is not close to Gogeta
@@ty-ray1307 So that Kamehameha that was intended to kill, that meteor explosion and the soul punisher is a "hint"?
@@gabrielvb678 Gogeta could have definitely fought with more ferocity you saw throughout the fight that he started amping up his power Gogeta never fought Broly with full strength in fact he is shown powering up only once in his blue state and was actually happy Broly escaped
@@ty-ray1307 Whis said one more attack and the battle was over, and Gogeta was serious about the fight so he wasn't going lightly.
This is genuine copium
1. Not only do they not fuse in the manga (it's a 2 panel thing where gogeta quickly taps the events of the movie) unless you're talking bout the novel? And in the novel they never make that statement either
2. Yes there is a super massive gap between gogeta blue and broly, tanking doesnt mean hes even slightly comparable to his opponent (using this exact same logic base goku who was tanking punches from [pre-full power up] jiren wasnt really that far behind him [which is objectively false)
3. The reason why broly didnt land any hits was because he was massively outgapped in EVERY regard. Never compare them again
4. From his fight with gogeta blue it's obvious that even a serious ss3 gogeta couldve beaten broly
5. Using feats base jiren>>>ssj broly (broly couldnt k.o a frieza for over an hour vs jiren oneshotting hin)
You are jiren fan boy Bro that universe 11 god destruction isn’t stronger than beerus whis was just trolling he never said directly that he is stronger than beerus he said it indirectly don’t spread misinformation and he just defeated him in arm wrestling match not a pure fight
Where goku said that he is or maybe stronger than beerus
Moral of the pov is no one directly claimed that jiren is stronger than beerus but goku maybe directly claimed that broly is or maybe stronger than beerus
And note that jiren was ducking fights he was avoiding everyone in a tournament of power where goku and vegeta fought almost everyone so it means goku and vegeta were tired in a situation of jiren because sensobeans wasn’t allowed they were recovering sometimes but not fully if you want to full recovery on that short time then you need to eat sensubeans but it was not allowed so jiren never fought 100% energy levels of goku and vegeta
Where goku and vegeta were 100% against broly still broly did 1vs2 them
So my opinion is broly is far stronger than jiren but jiren would win because broly can’t control his power he is not a experienced fighter but in a future he would easily toy jiren
There is no way jiren is stronger than broly
Broly was born with 10k power levels where jiren was vegetable kid (weak) broly is gifted and genetics freak in a terms strength jiren is nothing front of him
Even if put this logic that goku and vegeta were tired against jiren because of fighting everyone then this logic makes sense where they were not tired against broly
Still broly was toying with them even in their ssjb goku and vegeta
So broly is clearly stronger than jiren
Broly is underrated and jiren is sometimes overrated so don’t be fan boy be neutral if you comparing two fighters
Bro base gogeta is stronger then the absolute max of goku and vegeta broly pushed gogeta to ssj blue there’s you’re answer broly is stronger than top jiren cause really think about it so you think Mui goku from the top could push gogeta to even go ssj1
Beerus is stronger than belmod, jiren is only stronger than his own destroyer(belmod) not beerus, and we all know that mui goku is still far weaker than beerus. So with these statements we can scale them like this=
Belmod
Couldn’t say it better than this video. And crazy is that Manga jiren is even stronger and was able to actually BEAT Mui Goku.
It’d be so fire if we could ever see Jiren again to see how strong he’s truly gotten after the Friendship with Toppo and all the others.
Just Imagine Jiren with Hakai 💀
Manga Broly washes Jiren, and it’s not even close😂 Jiren wouldn’t even make it past Brolys initial ssj transformation, he’s definitely not beating a enraged FPSSJ Broly who is directly stated to be a rival for Beerus on two different occasions🥱 Jiren was compared to Belmod who is absolute fodder of a GOD and couldn’t beat an initial UI Goku with massive stamina drain. He’s also stated by Vegeta himself too have not been that powerful in the superhero movie while Broly is stated to be stronger than Cell max who beat Golden piccolo and was a rival for Gohan. He also didn’t get one shot by Gohan like Goku did😂 please debate me so I could slam you and anyone who disagrees. There’s too much evidence for y’all to still be debating this then say “iTs NoT A dEbAtE bRo” you, this TH-camr and whoever agrees will get the smack down by me today I got time n ima spit on you with str8 facts fanboi🥱🥱🥱🥱 …this a copy I just wanna debate y’all lames
You mixed 3 continuities in one comment
Only time broly was compared to beerus was in end of the movie never happend afterwords
Yes jiren was only strong as two blue level characters
Yes belmond is weakest god fking fodder
But where did UI come form? If your using movie scaling then there's no ui in movies
Also gohan beast > completed cell max> broly>incompleted cell max
When did goku got one shot?
@@God_Enjoyer movie and manga continuity coexist together, and exactly why the manga did not cover the Broly movie and superhero movie in the manga was a direct rendition of the movie itself. Have you even read the latest chapters? They’re articulated and drawn almost exactly the same as the movie itself so you’re definitely wrong on that account. It was also stated that Broly was the strongest fighter in the superhero promotional material apart from Gohan and “probably” a hypothetical perfect cell max. Which wouldn’t even matter since promotional material and the movie highly suggested that this was an Ikari version of Broly and not ssj or fpssj, who we later see in recent chapters that Broly has been unable to tap into the power he once had against Gogeta. This power showcased clear disdain to Gohan beast who one shot a FP MUI Goku stated to be at his strongest by Whis and Beerus literally within the same chapter. Gohan also states himself that he held back on Goku intentionally so he would not go berserk.
@eynjay8046 no they dont co exist with each other otherwise freeza would've known about fusion as freeza sees kefla in manga
They didn't adapted broly movie because they wanted to show moro and movie was already released so no point in adapting it it would take at least a year to finish it
There's no point calling ikari verison of broly the strongest viewers don't know how strong he is so they were talking about FPSSJ broly form last movie
Even if he taps into it it doesn't matter as goku and vegeta already surpassed him long ago
So did goku one shotted beast gohan i mean goku wasnt even taking fight seriously he was more intrested looking at broly
And goku also stated it was just Sparring match
@@God_Enjoyer you’re no longer even worth debating have a good day sir😂
Wow what a quitter
You keep showing the Manga scan where it is stated than our god of destruction and combat skill, there is no official statement calling Jiren stronger than all gods it's just hype material, whis keeps throwing statements that don't make sense remember when he said kaioken x10 Goku would beat Beerus, Beerus is considered the strongest god of destruction in the broly novel and other statements if that's the route many use for the hype materials on Jiren and I see it only says a god of destruction on those hype materials not even Black freezer is beerus' lvl.
On another note Jiren at full power could barely hold off berserk Broly in XenoVerse 2 closest vs we will ever get
Using Xenoverse as a talkin point 😂
Untrue, The anime literally states Jiren is above the God of destructions not as promotion but as the actual plot of the show. There is no way anyone can conclude that was just filler hype.
Second as for your xenoverse 2 claim, Fu distorts history to make broly even stronger. Literally in that level the supreme kai of time flat out says broly is now as strong as BLUE GOGETA. So this Broly is way stronger than the movie one and to make matters worse for him, Jiren fights him with no buffs to jiren and he still wins. We know Jiren wins cuz the mission is literally defeat broly, and after the cutscene the defeat broly win condtion is met and checked off. SO yea Even with fu powering up broly in ur xenoverse 2 claim Jiren beats him. SO then you would have to say Gogeta blue is weaker than Jiren
@@WildFang39 there is sooo much wrong with your analogy but let me explain, in the anime whis' clearly says "so the rumors are true there is a mortal a god of destruction can not defeat" I say again he said a not plural just one and it's belmod being referred there could be a few others but that's all, next up it says broly can survive attacks from blue Gogeta which is consistent if you ever watched the movie, nowhere does Fu ever state or is even stated broly was buffed normally in xeno and I'm sure you're unaware of this whenever the villain is amped the become black-grayish with red eyes broly is normal and clearly shown through dialogue and the cutscenes Jiren is struggling against broly and the parallel universe they are in collapse after Fu gets his energy, jiren never wins and struggles immensely obviously broly in xeno is wayyy stronger than the anime but the games in it Always maintain the chain of power, it is extremely constitent
@@wanted2657 when it comes to the placement of cannon characters and their power in lore, XenoVerse is consistent as is Kakarot especially kakarot since toyirama (rip) overlooked story aspects that were added and weren't in the anime or manga
Not saying it's super reliable but it's a good basis in wait for the show to return and officially answer these questions
@@superrobo if you believe what I'm saying is wrong then there's no saving you but I'll give it one last attempt before giving up on you.
1. The anime statement id have to pull up more information on but I'm mainly here for dbx2 point but I'll briefly comment on the anime one. When whis says there is a mortal that not even a God of destruction can defeat. That is plural in the sense it is a general blanket statement. If I say not even a doctor can treat cancer that doesn't mean only one can't and the rest could potentially. It means no doctor amongst all of them can treat your cancer. So in the anime when whis says that he is referring to all of them not just one. We only try to pretend he is saying one cuz obviously as per the manga we know beerus's goal post moved. Plus you can ignore this if it is wrong but didn't beerus react In a way that is implied he was being targeted in that statement as well? If you have a clip of the scene please send it so we can see together cuz I can't find it and am purely speaking out of memory for that specific point.
2. As per the dbx2 where I do have the entire mission right in front of me in game on my Xbox right now, literally the supreme Kai of time word by word says
"broly NOW has the power to keep up with Gogeta After he turns SSBlue!!! How are we gonna fix this one?!!"
Also the mission clearly says defeat broly. So based on story telling and progression of the game. If Jiren lost to broly who was the only capable fighter on the battle field cuz everyone Including your character were out of the battle field. How did they fix the timeline? If Broly won then the timeline is failed. If Jiren won then balance is restored and the next mission can progress. My friend there is no conceivable way broly won that fight. Narrative implications as well as story progression clearly point towards Jiren winning that fight. Also Jiren just transformed for the sake of it. He didn't even fight broly prior to transforming. Broly was too fixated on Goku as Jiren again pure quotes from the thing says "why won't you fight me?" Then transforms saying "You will fight me beast".
So I could maybe give you the first point cuz idc about that but the dbx2 you are 1000% wrong
Isn’t it funny how tiny frieza is and how he’s a multiversal threat 1:31
That "Jiren is stronger than Beerus" argument doesn't mean anything in the movie and manga continuities so who is stronger in that case?
You just can't use the anime and manga, they are 2 different continuities and these arguments are so bad.
Broly and Jiren are both enemies since they are both called such in the promotional material, goku from blue in his second fight in the ToP was able to fight jiren on equal terms to his UI omen counterpart, trading blows and parrying attacks, so he got massively stronger, since he wasn't even in SSJBK20 but just in SSJB, then lost, got a zenkai, lost in UI, got MUI, his body gave up and got another zenkai, the first zenkai was a boost greater than 20 times, and he got at least 2 others since he lost MUI and then got fatigued and damaged when throwing jiren off the stage with frieza.
So he is bare minimum more than 400+ times stronger than a hypothetical SSJBK20 goku who fought jiren in his MUI fight, who would be 400+ times stronger than his first jiren fight (he should be much stronger, since he also fought kefla) and he didn't even bother going SSJBK20 or telling vegeta to go SSJBE, so he thought that the difference between yellow hair SSJ Broly (who is weaker than green hair LSSJ Broly) was greater than the difference between pre awakening jiren and him at full power and vegeta, and they'd both be 400+ times stronger here, but he thought that broly grew way too strong, then broly proceeded to fight for an entire hour, which was much longer than the duration of his past fight with vegeta, goku and both if them put together, so he at least grew more in that hour than what he did in the past 3 fights, and in some minutes he grew hundreds of times stronger only against vegeta, since he went from base vegeta level to at least stronger than SSJ2 vegeta level, since vegeta felt the need to go SSJG, then got a 10× boost with hikari and went from below SSJG vegeta level to SSJB goku level, then used a 50× multiplier with SSJ which would be only 5× times stronger than ikari and then fought for one hour, then grew against base Gogeta, who went SSJ and Broly adapted, so Gogeta went SSJB and Broly was growing stronger, he even went into LSSJ and grew more, but the gap was much greater than what Broly could do so he lost.
If you took initial Broly vs Jiren, Jiren would win, but if you took both at full power Broly would rip Jiren apart, it wouldn't even be close
Jiren knocked out MUI Goku in the manga. Beast Gohan who's comparable to MUI Goku fought Broly and Broly was struggling at full power vs Gohan. So we can conclude that Jiren > Broly. Even Whis mentions Jiren has limitless potential.
@@noire.blackheart no that is just horrible, ssbe vegeta from the moro arc is stronger than mui goku from the top, broly was also stated to be the strongest "man" ever and that when he unleashes his power "none" can stop him, in the manga it's a horrible mismatch even worse than the anime, since broly would probably butcher jiren, and taking top jiren isn't fair to him since he'd probably loose to current ssjg goku or worse
No, different arcs@@noire.blackheart
@@ΦάντασματοῦΘεοῦ Moro says that Vegeta blue evolved is not even close to Goku's sign, there is no comparison between this Vegeta vs Goku, Vegeta becomes stronger than Jiren and Broly with the ultra ego
@@gabrielvb678 he says that of the same arc, i was talking about different arcs, since the guy also was
its crazy how people think broly is stronger just because he was introduced later in the series😭😭😭
He really is you’re just in denial. Now that toyo is in charge, you’re gonna be really disappointed with your delusions🤣😌
@@eynjay8046Broly isn’t stronger initially, just give Broly enough time and he surpasses Jiren if it doesn’t end quickly.
High diff for Jiren but Extreme Diff for Broly.
You can say that SSBKX20 Goku > Broly Movie SSB Goku and you can see the differences.
Supressed Jiren easily dealt with a SSBK and SSBE Goku and Vegeta + a Blue Level Android 17.
Broly made a later on stronger Goku and Vegeta In their Blue forms turn tail and run the moment he went into his Wrathful SSJ state.
Assuming that this Blue Goku and Vegeta might be a smidge stronger than the their TOP variants, it would literally look like an equal fight, but Jiren clearly has the upper hand if you look at it more clearly.
From what it seems to me
Jiren > SSJ Wrathful Broly
Jiren < FPSSJ Broly
Awakened Jiren >= FPSSJ Broly
Would this also mean Broly would beat a MUI Goku? No. Jiren initially is stronger, that’s all there is, it’s only a proposed scenario that allows Broly to win.
@@Chris_HTbroly is the strongest enemy in history it was literally stated 😂 stop
@@Zeil_tha_dragonCool
he is, G&V NEEDED to resort to fusion to even dent Broly so i doubt a Jiren is beating him
Without watching this the answer is broly clearly. They literally said broly is the strongest enemy.
Hasn't Jiren been training ever since he got his ass beat by Goku? So imagine a Jiren with even more power and speed than before, with actual technique and style instead of just raw strength. So i'd say Jiren can easily manhandle Broly considering Broly has to stay in Berserk for quite a bit of time (around like 1 hour 30 mins) to even reach Full Power Mastered SSB level in the Broly movie. So using that with a slightly higher multiplier cause he hasn't went Berserk since, he'd be like UI ~Sign~ level if Jiren wouldn't pull a Android 17 and beat his ass on the spot instead of waiting nearly 2 hours for bro to reach Ui strength.
Isn't this just a hypothetical jiren?
That's is by all accounts not fair as you could make him how ever strong you wanted if you say we're using jiren after the top
Jiren already has teqnique he was trained by his old master as a kid who was a martial artist. He isnt just raw strength.You can clearly see that by how hes able to control his ki so easily and the way hes so calm fighting ui omen goku. He didnt start using raw strength until he broke his limits to push mui goku.
Plus he has never trained with his angel or recieved any god training all his strength was earned by himself. His own strength already rivaled gods even surpassing them. So post top jiren that is continuing training is overkill.
Broly is just raw strength nothing else hes getting mandhandled everytime in a fight against jiren whos not only a martial artist but is flat out smarter, faster, and more powerful. Never understood this debate broly was never above jiren.
@@kingbevan1993 again isn't this just an assumption?
Weve seen it before that character or atleast antagonist from past arcs with supposed crazy potential become washed or standardised if they returned. So again using a post top jiren is by all accounts cheating as we could literally make him as strong as we'd want him to be with no conformation at all
@@XRaiden1 dawg frieza is a frequent returning past antagonist with crazy potential. He was nothing after Z returned years later in rof rivaling ssb. He was left in the dust during top came back arcs later and now is the strongest character in the series outside of dieties. This is litterally due to training and honing his potential.
Dude even broly who after broly movie was basically fodder due to goku and vegeta achieving new heights and fighting way stronger villians came back years later in superhero seeing much more improvement than before. Same theme he trained.
Jiren definitly would be way stronger now. Somebody who bases his whole identity/purpose off absolute strength and has trained to reach that goal before would just stop because he lost one time. Even in jirens absence goku and vegeta till this day brings up jiren despite how strong they have gotten since then. Vegeta even taking jirens style of meditation seeing him as still a fighter to admire and learn from.
@@XRaiden1 So again where is this whole idea antagonist from past arcs become washed? Most antagonist in db are dead and dont even return. previous antagonist arent even antagonist anymore example being piccolo and vegeta. Even granolah was redeemed. Only character that statement kind of applies to is hit. Even then top hit in the manga has stated hes trained physically and relied less on his timeskip since his fight with goku back in u6 arc. its actually shown he improved physically when he teamed up with goku against jiren with goku amazed as to how well hit was able to block jirens punches. Unfortunatly hits opponent was jiren of all people so in that case he looked washed. Regardless if you train you can climb to the top and thats even more true if your gifted already.
The strongest enemy, yes but remember jiren wasn’t an enemy, he was a pride trooper , a freedom fighter .
So glad to see a db channel that is not a fanboy but actually analyze things only a fanboy can think Broly could win 😂
Um u do realize that broly would adapt to be stronger then jerin right cuz he started being weaker then suppresses base vegeta and in 30 minutes he's now as strong as super sayain blue goku and vegeta combined and don't say jerin would instantly use his full power in the turnement of power he went slowly until he reached his max
I've watched dozens of these Broly vs Jiren videos and almost all them have Jiren winning so what fanboy stuff are you even babbling about?
*Broly goes SSJ 2*
Jiren: 💀
A straw ki blast hits chelie he's cooked
I hate dragon ball fans bc goku saying someone stronger than beerus isn't accurate at all like GOKU HAS NEVER FOUGHT A FULL POWER BEERUS SND BEERUS HIMSELF HAS NEVER WORRIED ABOUT BROLY OR ANYONE smh whis statements are the only one who statements would matter
Goku has seen Beerus fight during the GOD exhibition in the manga. If you guys used the most up to date and real logic..eg. the manga for super you would have known this for years. Broly beats Jiren 10/10 times, and Belmod was always fodder/Quitela beat him in arm wrestling/to a standstill. You “fans” are disappointing
@@eynjay8046Goku states he doesn't understands whats happening on battle
@@God_Enjoyer no he states “everyone is so powerful their strength is mind blowing” he then states how he can’t see who’s fighting who, and it’s been established since original dragon ball that what they cannot see they can sense. They also have God ki so saying they cannot sense another God is a slow take.
@@eynjay8046Velmod is not fodder. Compared to other gods maybe. But fodder god would be sidra and still his full power would be blue kioken goku level
@@Scalerlord not fodder as in weak per say , fodder as that lvl of power has been one shot capable since the Moro arc as we have seen Moro 73 one shot UI sign Goku who was comparable if not slightly above his TOP self at that moment. If they get one shot they’re officially fodder
Let’s gooo. Somebody who actually understands the anime scaling
broly also has the statements of being the strongest in the super hero promotional material, and has a statement that only if cell max was fully completed then not even broly could win by toriyama. so if you do count toriyamas words then broly can beat the same cell max that gohan beat, who both gohan and cell max have numerous statements for their power being above goku aswell. (not current goku post super hero)
He said he was only using the Broly movie Broly not the one from the DBS superhero who had been training for three weeks and got stronger
@@ty-ray1307 the statements are not about the broly who trained but the movie broly. They show movie broly in the heros movie
@@abp_gvo_2275 that would contradict the statement made about Gohan and Cell Max being the strongest battle in history which put it over full power Broly and suppressed Gogeta
@@ty-ray1307no it doesn’t contradict the statement because the broly movie came out before the Super hero movie which means the statement from the broly movie only applies to the events that happened before the Broly movie what are you talking about this is basic knowledge
@@legendseeker6944 I think you are confused The top comment believes that the Broly that fought Gogeta is being used as the bar against a completed cell max while I am arguing that they were referring to a superhero Broly as the measuring stick
Gohan vs Cell Max was said to be the strongest battle in history meaning the power displayed in their final clash has to be greater than that of Full power Broly and a suppressed Blue Gogeta
So I disagree with the take that Broly movie Broly is stronger than Cell Max
Put it like this. Jiren is stronger than HIS universes god of destruction, the clown belmont. While Broly is compared to beerus the strongest god of destruction. It’s obvious Broly is is just written to be stronger.
People stop using Gogeta to scale Broly. IF gogeta is a 10 broly is easily a 5 or 6.
so you think MUI Goku beats SSJ Gogeta right? If not then you just proved the point as to Why Gogeta is brought up bc UNLESS the multiplier is SO big then WHY would Goku waste time fusing instead of tapping into MUI, yk why bc MUI & FP Jiren would get clapped by Broly simple as that
@@tinytitan8807 first of all not what I said at all second to easily debunk your fodder ass, Goku in Moro arc said he has never been able to access UI ever since the tourney even when he tries to. So yea he couldn't do it regardless
@@WildFang39 so you think mui multiplier beats fusion multiplier, yes or no? Bc even so Goku DIDN'T even try not once is he like," Damn, this guy is tough maybe I could try access UI like in the tournament" yk TRY or ATTEMPT to use it but he doesn't bc Broly is TOO strong for simply MUI so he needs fusion.
At NO point in ToP, did Goku ever feel the need to fuse to beat Jiren even at the behest of Supreme Kai both G&V despite the lives of U7 at stake choose rather to work tohether individually than fuse bc they were confident in their ability.
See the difference one opponent so great Goku had to use power of God's while another was so great G&V had to abandon pride and fuse to a new being to beat him.
@@tinytitan8807 where is any of this coming from. Ur fighting invisible monsters.
What was my initial claim
@@WildFang39 your initial claim is bring up Gogeta in the Broly vs Jiren debate should be irrelevant but I'm saying No it should bc Gogeta the fact that Gogeta was needed is proof alone that Broly is more of a threat and by proxy stronger than Jiren.
Broly fought a stronger version of Goku and Vegeta
Blue goku from the broly movie isn't stronger than mui from top
Jiren was slapping around ssb goku kaioken 20 , vegeta blue evolution and 17 in base form , not even full power base form.
But there's a catch, dragon ball super power scaling is garbage 😂
Broly Movie SSB and Top SSB aren’t equal but the Broly Movie SSB is just a little stronger by assumption, the zenkais given after the TOP would be substantial but we don’t know much.
@@rae5057but theres no mui in movies
@@God_Enjoyer im yea but since he could access it at the time he was overall stronger in the top but in the broly movie his blue form was fs stronger
In my opinion it would have been cool if Goku was able to go mui against broly but it somehow still not be enough and to the point where his body gives out again and thus forcing the fusion at that point that way we would have a direct model for comparison between the two fights
Monaka solos both no difficulty (i have been paid to write this comment)
Who is holding you at gunpoint?
N-N-No one.....maybe..@@dragonvonwolf5978
Let Broly and Goku fight until he taps into ultra instinct again, kill krillin to speed it up and then see what happens. Broly will be begging for Jiren to show up
U do realise that broly forced goku and vegeta to run away and fuse right. Goku and vegeta never even thought about fusion against jiren when there universe was at stake
jiren was bodying them constant times
@@Toddles yh and broly forced them to fuse
Exactly with even Vegeta (while being cocky) opting to fight and beat Jiren ALONE. Against Broly, he literally FLED
I don't think Vegeta knew how to do the fusion dance. In the DBS Broly movie he had to be thought how to do it and even then they failed at least twice.
If they tried to do it at the T.O.P they would be taking a huge risk of getting eliminated. Also unless Jiren let them fuse they would have trouble fusing while getting attacked
@@trueaura369 there were 2 kais there with potara
Ikari form also gains yellow eyes.
5:46 Whis was teasing beerus as beerus said belmod only beat him in an arm wrestle which doesnt equate to overall combat ability
Broly is most likely more powerful than TOP MUI goku and jiren… however, I really don’t see broly landing a hit on MUI because of his lack of control. Jiren was literally the epitome of insane ki control
In superhero it was stated that cellmax would be stronge rthsn broly at his fp if he was at his completed state. Beast gohan who is shown to surpass mui goku,the same mui goku that shit on jiren, struggled with cellmax when he was weakened and current broly is arguably weaker than he was in earth in terms of power. Vegeta and goku also said that power= speed,strength,senses,etc. So if broly is superior to beast gohan and mui goku at his peak in terms of actaul power. Then broly ( at his peak)>beast gohan>mui goku
broly would win it is stated that he is the strongest opponent they have faced so far and the broly movie takes place after the TOP
Shut up fanboy you just like him more
@@ProphetOP3 whoa calm down Jahmal, don't pull out the nine
@@Copuim-i8v😂😂😂
@@Copuim-i8vlol
@@ProphetOP3relax dawg he’s pulling up receipts💀
Strength doesn't even matter too much once the Moro arc started its how you use it which Broly is terrible at and Jiren is literally known for 💀
Well wouldn’t Broly getting his ass beat by Jiren break his limits too
Before watching the video i give my thoughts on jiren vs broly
in toriyama's eyes jiren fought 3 blue level characters (goku vegeta freeza) and was defeated using teamwork
Broly too fought two blue level characters and overpowered them and only way to defeat was to fuse
For me broly is stronger of the two
Misinformation video. Jiren never been shit compared to ssj broly let alone full power 😂😂😂
I mean in the Manga we know Jiren over Beerus is wrong and if we are talking "a god of destruction"... Some of them are kind of trash
Ok this video is flawed from the start. The anime and manga have two different powerscales and shouldn't be conflated with one another. In the anime Jiren is above Beerus and all the gods of destruction. In the manga Jiren is better at fighting than Belmond but in terms of power still weaker than him and Beerus. This evidenced by MUI Goku who in the anime surpasses Beerus but is weaker than him in the manga. If Broly is in the anime he's more powerful than Jiren by a huge margin as he is in the manga. He's slightly above Beerus with FP Ikari SSJ.
OMG THIS IS THE VIDEO I WANTED TO SEE FROM YOU!
THE GOAT HIMSELF AVENT
broly's uper saiyan transformation I think is a lot more that a 50 times multiplier. seeing as how he isnt a standard saiyan.
In the manga you clearly see beerus is stronger than all the other gods of destruction they have a free for all and all of them attack beerus first. Belmod couldn't hold a candle to beerus 😂
Not exactly, he dodged them all because of Ultra Instinct, although the fact that Vermouth, Quitela and Beerus remained standing implies that they are a little stronger.
Bro at that time it was stated that broly is the strongest guy Goku and vegeta ever faced
If it's manga versions Broly stomps, Jiren hasn't appeared since ToP while Broly is only getting stronger.
Anime is tricky cus Jiren has these weird beyond GoD statements, all of them are super vague though. Broly also has statements being above any previous enemy (and Jiren was called an enemy 3 times in ToP), Broly is also stated above Imperfect Cell Max who is above Goku and Vegeta in the movie. Broly is also directly stated stronger than Jiren and that Jiren is literally only ssbe vegeta from top level but with better control lmfao
I feel like Jiren would atleast land 1 hit on Gogeta Blue if they were to fight unlike Broly
Jiren wins. Why ? Because Broly is unexperienced. If Jiren would notice that Broly grows in power fast he would destroy him in an instance.
Broly just started fighting real opponents and he’s already stronger than ssg by super hero movie Broly is most likely way stronger than him
What's crazy to me people still believe Goku in the universe tournament took a W in 1vs1 with Jiren 😂. Ofc MUI Goku gave hard beating to Jiren and at both peaks of power he was more powerful than Awakend Jiren, BUT Goku's body couldn't handle this power, that's why he couldn't finish off Jiren. Jiren had more durability and strength and if not Frieza and 17, Jiren would've simply knock Goku off(Frieza saved Goku's a**). What's also crazy Jiren had even more power to fight Goku, Frieza and 17 after all of that and still managed to get Goku and Frieza.
I disagree, the manga and anime have different continuities and interpretations of characters power and some of the promotional material for jiren and broly are identical. “Power that surpasses the gods”. Vegeta even states jiren wasn’t that much stronger than them in the super hero movie and only had better control over his power. Goku and vegeta have gotten way stronger since then and beerus is clearly the strongest god of destruction in the manga while the anime makes it seem as tho goku has already surpassed him. Even toriyama has stated they are different but both canonical. So it’s kinda weird to compare different continuities when the intent is clearly different
jiren wins mid - hard diff but if broly keeps adapting broly would win
id say jiren would win since he acutally has BIQ meanwhile broly has lost his mind but if broly started of at full power broly would win
Manga Broly washes Jiren, and it’s not even close😂 Jiren wouldn’t even make it past Brolys initial ssj transformation, he’s definitely not beating a enraged FPSSJ Broly who is directly stated to be a rival for Beerus on two different occasions🥱 Jiren was compared to Belmod who is absolute fodder of a GOD and couldn’t beat an initial UI Goku with massive stamina drain. He’s also stated by Vegeta himself too have not been that powerful in the superhero movie while Broly is stated to be stronger than Cell max who beat Golden piccolo and was a rival for Gohan. He also didn’t get one shot by Gohan like Goku did😂 please debate me so I could slam you and anyone who disagrees. There’s too much evidence for y’all to still be debating this then say “iTs NoT A dEbAtE bRo” you, this TH-camr and whoever agrees will get the smack down by me today I got time n ima spit on you with str8 facts fanboi🥱🥱🥱🥱
@@eynjay8046 then make your own comment so that more people can see you and have a debate nobody is gonna have a argument here so make your own comment.
@@legoman8518 I already did
@@eynjay8046 oh ok
goku solos like if you agree
Bro thinks he’s getting likes ☠️
@@Name8Rbruh goku is currently stronger than broly 🤣 there’s plenty evidence in the manga. I’d be happy to enlighten if you want
goku is NOT soloing sun wukong
@@kotsiru well of course lol i don’t think that has any relevancy
Alright bruddy you are NOT tricking anyone with that shi bro 😭
Thanks For this! Love your content ❤❤❤❤
love goku :)
I’m tired of these DB scalers on TikTok who don’t think. 😂 this is my favorite debate and I’m glad someone said something with simple facts said over and over in the actual anime/manga for once.
Jiren is written to be stronger than Broly in the anime, but in the manga it is the other way around.
In the anime we know that SSB fusion would not beat Jiren, Vegeto Blue was compared to Beerus not long before that, so if Beerus makes that claim, then it for sure means that Jiren is not a joke and the fusion is way too risky. If fusion in the anime was that much stronger, then he wouldn't have said that. This makes UI stronger because that was the powerup used to surpass the gods by the end of the TOP. Also in the anime, we know that Belmod won against Beerus in raw power due to arm wrestling, there isn't much trickery Belmod can do to overpower Beerus, and if Jiren is beyond Belmod while not going all out, i mean, it's plain and simple from here on out...
In the manga, things are different, fusion is written to be stronger. Belmod is not as strong as Beerus, quitela is... belmod is still up there in power overall, but the top 2 and rivals are Quitela and Beerus. So Jiren is compared to a weaker god than Beerus, and Broly was compared to Beerus, the strongest god. So logically... Broly is the strongest of the 2.
In dragon ball heroes (yes, even this BS gets called out). The prison realm/planet arc they made with the introduction of Cumber (this was right after the TOP in DBS), they wrote SSBKK20 Vegetto to be much weaker than UI. He was struggling with Cumber in both the manga and anime. At the end of that battle, the same Cumber got stomped by UI Goku with low effort. Then we see UI omen being stronger than UI when Goku receives training from GP and at the end of that entire universal seed arc which happened right after the prison one, we see Gogeta Blue, the same Gogeta from Broly movie, stomping universal seed hearts, who claimed to have a source of power stronger than the omniking... While previously UI Goku was struggling against a much weaker opponent that was using the universal seed to power itself. The reason they did the 180 with these characters and powers, is because someone wanted them to fix the mistake they made.
Conclusion, i am fairly certain that the real intention here was that Jiren was never as strong as he was meant to be in the anime. They made him too strong and then suddently started nerfing him. When the anime returns, he will be nerfed again to follow closely to the manga material, essentially a retcon is going to happen, some people will be pissed because it breaks the logic of the anime all of a sudden. The writters for the anime also f'ed up when introducing the U11 fighter to fight Goku in that exhibition match. They had originally intended to make Jiren show up, not toppo. Now i have no clue if they were going to use Jiren as the real Jiren, or they were going to switch the plot and having Jiren become Toppo. Which would mean Toppo would have been the real threat from U11. Anyways, what matters is that they f'ed up and they corrected next episode the issue. At the end of the episode they showed a different character from what we had seen in the next episode, if they fixed it, then it means the stuff that was written, was not following proper guidelines as intended by the supreme writter at the time, which was akira.
I like both characters... but if i had to pick a favorite, it would be jiren. I like his design and personality to some extent. So if Jiren is my favorite and i have stated all this, perhaps what i said actually makes sense...? I mean, him being the strongest would be nice but we have to be real here and look at everything we have at display. The anime 100% is gonna get a retcon and will be rewritten to follow the manga source, mark my words. They can't continue to follow their own path, forcing the franchise to have 2 different story telling approaches, it would create confusion... unless they step forward and make a statement saying that each thing is its own thing, like different timelines occuring at the sametime but with slightly different results. Also we can see other changes from manga vs anime in other arcs too. Future trunks arc was another one...
its crazy to me that even tho in the manga beerus made it clear he is stronger than both ultra instinct goku and hakai vegeta
yall still make it sound like jiren is stronger than beerus
plus the fact that even after 2 extra arcs and multiple powers ups goku in a better and stronger version of ultra instinct was on par with beast gohan who fought on par with broly who adapted to gohan and even unlocked a controlled super saiyan form
even ignoring that the manga itself proved you wrong about jiren being stronger than beerus
unless you want to say tornament of power jiren at full power is on the same level as hakai vegeta or ui goku from the current arcs then jiren stands no chance against broly
Everyone should stop debating in general, as it cause arguments and problems
I think it'd be very close, but I could see Jiren winning if they're both going all out. Jiren is a very well put together fighter, so he could fairly easily determine strategies to deal with Broly imo. Broly is a rampaging beast, and Jiren constantly remarks that just having high power means little if you can hardly control it. There is the chance that all that power does wind up allowing him to simply just push through Jiren's attacks, since he managed to go fairly full force against Gogeta without being super devastated. All in all, tough call.
Another drone who takes whis’ analysis of Jiren and belmod way out of proportion, such a shame
Alot of this arguement becomes baseless, when you realize you used 2 different continuties, as a single answer. Both are different (manga and anime), potrayed the fights/characters differently, especially goku and the maincast. So alot of this evidence dosent work........
broly was basically mahoraga
Goated as always avent!
goku solos avent
Superhero Broly>>Jiren>Broly movie Broly
Bu.
Lly is grown good in german
DBZ Movie 14 Battle Of Gods; Saiyan God Goku 6. Lord Beerus 10. Whis 15.
DBZ Movie 15 Resurrection F, Super Saiyan Blue Goku 7. It was also stated by Whis if Goku & Vegeta teamed they could defeat Lord Beerus. This statement is key, remember it.
DBS Movie 16 Broly; Goku Blue & Vegeta Blue with teamwork cannot defeat Broly’s Limit Breaker. Prior to this, Goku Blue was beating SSJ Broly. Essentially u can call SSJ Broly equal to Goku Blue, even tho, Goku Blue had the advantage in that fight.
In the Tournament Of Power, Goku Blue Kaio-Ken x20 & Vegeta Blue Evolution cannot defeat Jiren The Grey 100%. M.U.I. Goku is a Limit Breaker. Jiren’s enraged creates his Limit Breaker.
Fans don’t like to accept this, but based on the Lore of The Movies. Which is canon events directly from Akira Toriyama. As well as Super Anime. M.U.I. Goku surpassed Lord Beerus 10.
Jiren 100% is Massively Overwhelmingly & Exceedingly Stronger than SSJ Broly. We know this bcuz Goku Blue was beatin SSJ Broly. However, Broly’s Likiter Breaker is Massively, Overwhelmingly & Exceedingly Stronger than Jiren The Grey’s Limit Breaker.
When it comes to 100% Maximum Power Level, Jiren beats Broly. When it comes to Limit Breaker’s, Broly beats Jiren. Remember, Goku Blue Kaio-Ken x20 & Vegeta Blue Evolution are equals. I’m DBZ Movie 15, Whis clearly stated, Goku & Vegeta together can defeat Lord Beerus.
Goku & Vegeta cannot beat Jiren 100% Maximum Power Level. Goku can beat SSJ Broly w/o Vegeta. Goku & Vegeta cannot beat Broly’s Limit Breaker. This shows Jiren & Broly are relative, even tho, Broly’s Limit Breaker is Stronger than Jiren’s Limit Breaker.
The contention between fans is due to accepting the manga while rejecting the anime. That’s illogical. When it comes to canon of Super. The DBZ/ DBS Movies are Tier 1 canon bcuz made by Akira Toriyama. The movies are his will. The anime follows Toriyama’s will, with interference by Toei Animation.. Tier 2 canon. Toyotaro’s DB Super Manga is Tier 3 Canon. The power level hierarchy connects. The Anime & Movies are interlinked & connected, whereas there are disconnects in the manga do to differences. The power hierarchy of Broly being Stronger than Jiren connects in the manga.
In the manga it implies that Brolys ssj is different, so i dont think it is actually a 50 times multiplier like the normal ssj, however since we dont know what the multiplier is officialy so i guess its fair.
broly is all brute he isn’t very strategic and tends to rely on his instinct however jiren is more strategic and technically better martial artist so I would lean towards jiren possibly outsmarting and overpowering Broly but Broly infinite growth could tip to scale so it’s really is difficult in my opinion.
bruh seems like you skipped all chapters of the manga and ignored the parts where beerus made is clear he was still stronger than goku and vegeta and even black freiza making the statment about belmund being stronger than beerus invalid and probably just whiz taunting beerus to train more you make it sound like whiz has never made a mistake or told a lie also didnt vegeta later said that jirens ki wasnt that bigger than thiers jiren just had better ki control ? broly was also fighting against beast gohan thats stronger than the version of goku that fought jiren get all your facts right bruh dont just make stuff up to fit your narrative
But can they beat goku tho?
Didn’t Toriyama confirm Broly to be stronger
This deserves more likes
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It depends. From the point in which they were introduced jiren would win but if it is current (dbs super hero) broly wins.
Ok but heres the thing
using this logic for the conclusion, current Goku should also be stronger than the gods by a long shot right? yet hes still not beating Beerus
this will have to mean that Jiren was only stronger than Belmod and any weaker G.o.Ds and whether you think Goku knows how strong Beerus is at his best would decide if you think hes right by saying Broly is on that level
and I do believe Goku has seen Beerus at his full power before (just hasnt directly faught him in it)
If broly trained more than he would win
I think broly from the manga is stronger than top jiren, no matter how you look at it
jiren in manga wash mui goku and broly in manga doesnt even lose to gogeta and doesnt have LSS
jiren def no diff
Jiren wins because my favorite colour is red and i dont like green 🤷♂
Ssj broly slams jiren also toppo said in terms of combat skill. Not power and the manag top corrected what happened in the anime top so the manga top is the mkre accurate version to go off of. So jiren is only superior to belmod in combat,not power. Vegeta also said that jiren wasn't even that much stronger than them. So jiren is only in their level in his fp state, and rhen again mui goku beat the breaks off that same jiren who is inferior to broly in terms of power.
5:45
most DB fan to that question, which i bring out myself, decided to believe Beerus.
Don't mess with Dragon Ball fans...
3:41 ion believe goku and Broly were even I think goku was slightly stronger bc ssb would have defeated Broly . Thats why Frieza killed Paragus bc he saw that Broly was losing to ssb .
Jiren (TOP) vs Broly (DBS MOVIE BROLY)
If it's a battle where they start from a base form i'd say jiren wins if he doesn't let broly go FP
If it's a battle where broly uses his green haired form which let''s say is equal to SSG gogeta on the broly movie then broly wins cause SSB gogeta from broly movie>MUI goku TOP arc and since the broly movie is a arc ahead of the TOP goku and vegeta would've gotten stronger so fusing into gogeta would be more stronger than a TOP gogeta if that ever happend so SSG Gogeta from broly movie is basically broly's legendary form power
LSS Broly=SSG gogeta>MUI Goku>Jiren
I feel like jiren is not stronger than belmod as when all the gods fought in the manga belmod was the only one unscathed and doesnt need healing
Broly slaps
To put the anwser short Jiren would win bc of how he used his power and his experience carry too and put him down quickly and thats how jiren would win,But if Broly keeps adapting he will mostly likely push jiren to his FP and tbh it would not be an ez for Lssjfp broly unless he keeps adaping but for me Broly wins mid high diff (This fight would break the Internet again if it happens 💀)
At full power broly washes jiren,
Initially Jiren would beat broly but if the fight drags for too long, broly has a chance to win
The reason you're wrong is because current Broly is stronger than Broly movie Broly. That's a unfair look at their power.
That said it's also important to note that Belmond is not as powerful as Beerus. In the manga it is obviously shown that Beerus outclasess many of the other Gods. Exceptions being the one's form universe 1 and 12. The only other GoD that comes close is Champa.
Paragus ate that guy
Broly went up against BEAST GOHAN Who can rival black friezas power
Its not even a question broly can beat jiren in base with a finger
this debate talsk about broly in the movie and jiren in the anime
not manga broly
also the manga has worse feats then the anime
T.O.P Jiren stomps. For one base Jiren would legit blink broly away he's easily still stronger than ssbkkx20 Goku and blue evo Vegeta.
Ikari is the same case as even if Jiren toyed with broly till he got there he is still not even above blue goku.
There is no scenario where he would achieve ssj he would just simply get stronger in ikari until he basically stamina drained he would never reach anything near his ssj power. But let's say he does, Jiren LEGITIMATELY see him in a beserker state, remember kale/kefla, and one tap him using his FP in base. (not limit bfeaker)
The only way you get broly equal to Jiren is by using his fpssj state but that isn't possible. AGAIN we're tossing broly a bone and saying hes already enraged and is in fpssj after getting his by ssj gogeta a couple of times.
Equal standings drop both of these characters a max power and jiren still facepalms broly into vampas core. Jiren has more BIQ, is just way more intelligent, Is physically stronger (until broly adapts) and legit has weapons from the pride troopers, we've just never seen them used since the T.O.P banned shit like that.
And even if you argue a current broly, a hypothetical current Jiren still obliterates, he keeps training. At that point broly gon lose to everybody he a fraud that is NOT my goat.
Ssj3 Z Broly one taps super broly no diff 🗣️🔥🔥🔥
Bruh it never said a surpressed jiren was stronger it just said a mortal stronger than the gods it never said in which state and if you think beginning TOP goku is beating beerus you gotta go😂
1st of all we haven’t seen the god of destructions full power yet and in the fight they had everyone was going for beerus and he was still doing well which puts him over belmod, second jiren isn’t literally stronger than his GOD there’s in proof to this and beerus wasn’t going full power whatsoever against super saiyan god goku 4th brolys fight took place after ToP so goku was just way stronger at this point in time and broly did land like 3 hits in ssjb gogeta which is unarguably stronger than ToP mui goku and he took multiple hits from him ntm they literally broke time and space mid fight, something jiren and goku didn’t do
if thats your answer that Jiren is stronger than Broly, Then I guess your answer to SSB Gogeta Vs MUI Goku is MUI Goku is stronger than SSB Gogeta? right?