Blackmagic 4K vs Cinema Camera 6K | Round 1
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- With the new Cinema Camera 6K out from Blackmagic Design, do you stick with your Pocket 4K or make the move?
I was never a fan of going to the Blackmagic Pocket 6K over the Pocket 4K cameras. However, when Blackmagic announced a FULL FRAME Cinema Camera 6K I made the purchase.
Why? Sensor size. A full frame sensor has larger photosites which in theory should deliver a better image than the Pocket 4K or the Pocket 6K.
When the camera came in, I decided to do some tests against my trusty Pocket 4K's.
In this video I walk through the main differences on a Pocket 4K vs Cinema Camera 6K. Plus we take a deep dive into various test footage I've shot since the Cinema Camera 6K came in. The footage is both inside with controlled lighting and outside at twilight and late morning in the sun.
Hope this helps clear the fog if you're on the fence!
#blackmagiccinemacamera6k
#pocket4kvscinemacamera6k
#blackmagic4kvs6k - ภาพยนตร์และแอนิเมชัน
Great comparison. Like you, I'm a little disappointed that there's not a massive gap between the 4k and FF6K. I'm still looking to get one. I already use FF lenses on my P4K and plan to keep it anyway so I see the 6K as a great complement to the 4K - more detail and different strengths in FOV, DOF and practicality. Just a shame that the low light performance doesn't seem to be any better. It's clear that the P4K still has legs, even in the current line-up of other capable BMD offerings.
Hey Jonas...yeah, you summed it up well. I did more testing today and will post another video tomorrow with those results. The windowed 4K Super35 mode on the CC6K is performing better than the windowed 4K DCI mode. So that allows actual 4K shooting on the camera that's on par with the Pocket...except on the second ISO bank. The Pocket 4K is amazing at 1250 and 3200. Anyway, you're right...the Pocket 4K still has legs.
I have been shooting the Bmcc4K since 2019 and I have tested the footage of the 6K full frame in Resolve. The 6K footage can be pushed at the extreme while color correcting and it doesn't break compared to the 4K. I would recommend the 6K.
Now I'd like to see a comparison with the 6k vs the 4k with a .64 xl speedbooster w/ full frame lens and observe FOV and DOF and compare the advantage (if any) to the 4k
That would be a great test!!!
The 4k is an absolute beast and an underrated workhorse of a camera. Rig it, embrace the rig, and shoot the crap out of 4k 12 bit raw :)
It really is. The differences I’m seeing are not as big as I thought they would be.
Thanks for this video! It was very informative and very well crafted. I love the BMCC6K and the image is stuning, but you can see some fixed pattern noise or maybe horizontal cmos smearing on the canddle shot at 16:08 on the 6K. Some other users have pointed this out and it's really tragic, the GH6 suffered from this aswell.
Thanks for your kind words! The low light stuff isn't that impressive compared to the Pocket 4K. First ISO bank is fine, but the second? The Pocket 4K oddly handles some things better.
This was a great video, I’ve loved the pocket 4k, loved the cost of 4/3rd lenses, but miss the “look” and flexibility of my Canon 5d mark 3. Do you feel having extensive narrative experience with the pocket 4k, moving to the L mount 6k is smooth? The pocket 4k for example with a hand held rig like the Manfrotto Fig Rig allows me to use a lens like the Lumix 12-35 and get passable IS with a handheld style. Do you see similar results with the new 6K and something like the 24-105? Or is it jitterier?
Thanks for the kind words! So...I'm not the one to ask on this. I shoot 99% of everything on sticks or the RS3 Pro. However with that...the gyro stabilization you can kick on in Resolve should give you what you're after. Because you can fine tune the strength, smoothness, etc. And when shooting 6K with 4K delivery, the small zooming that happens for this has zero impact on the footage. Also, you can totally get rid of shutter issues and make this camera like it has a global shutter with the gyro stuff. Super cool.
Lumix 12-35 - нет, потому что это объектив для кроп сенсора, а не для полнокадрового
Dear friend, I am very surprised by many things in this video, one is that the 4k with so many years is still an incredible camera, I can't believe how much they are similar, secondly the siriu lenses make both cameras look like a 50k one, for Lastly, the size of the files, what an incredible video, thank you very much for all this information
Thank you! I’m shocked at how close the Pocket 4K keeps up with this camera. I’ve been on the fence with which one to keep ongoing.
Did you do NR in resolve on the 6k low light footage? My copy is getting all sorts of horizontal banding in low light...
I didn't do any NR. You might want to put the cap on and do a sensor recalibration. That's normally for hot pixels, but I read somewhere that it can help other things. Haven't verified that though. I'm about to post another comparison on the cameras that does use NR.
Thanks. So no CMOS smearing that you could see with that shot with your daughter holding the candle?@@writedirect
Aren’t they both called pocket?
This is their Cinema Camera 6K with a full frame sensor. There’s a couple different models of the Pocket 6K with a super 35 sensor.
I really like your videos. You make tit all seem possible.. Had to ask , what If you added a Metabones to the mix> How would that stack up to the 6k cinema camera? ...Yoeuare a GOOD teacher
Very kind of you, thank you! A speed booster will allow you to use larger lenses on the 4K. So that will increase your field of view. Also, since the light is concentrated it gives you an extra F-Stop (might depend on the speed booster). So if you had a lens that was wide open at 2.2, you could actually let more light in with the metabones. Now, I've not personally used them. I've only shot native MFT lenses on the Pocket 4Ks. I'd consider what you're really after with the speed booster. The last film I shot was mostly on the Pocket 4Ks using only two prime lenses: A 24mm and 50mm. That gave me all the field of view options I needed.
I think you need to edit your comment for the spelling mistake...
You miss what I consider to be the best shooting configuration with the pocket 4K and that pairing it with a metabones XL adapter. This gives you closer to full frame field of view, one extra stop of light and all the frame rates that the pocket 4K enjoys that the other cameras simply cannot touch.
I agree!! It is a little pricey, but you can find them used that would still put you way below with the cinema camera 6k would cost! I use that combination and it kills in low light!!
This is true! And it’s an overall lower cost combo than the cinema camera 6K ends up being. The open gate image is better, but not enough better to justify the expense in many situations.
Sensor size actually does matter. Equivalent FOV and Equivalent DOF does not give you the same "look". You all are totally forgetting to factor in lens COMPRESSION. A 50mm will always look like a 50mm. Sensor sizes will only change how much of that 50mm FOV you get. I get it, there is so much to learn about in film making that most ppl never really get around to studying the way focal lengths behave. Not Equivalent focal lengths, but actual focal lengths. If I took a medium format 50mm lens and put it on a medium format camera, it will have a 35mm FOV in comparison to full frame. But if I cropped it in to match the field of view I get with full frame, it will look exactly the same as it does on full frame. Photo camera, medium format. The benefits of a bigger Sensor is being able to use longer focal lengths at the usual distance you would have used it if you had a smaller Sensor, and get drastically different compression effects. Compression changes the way everything looks. It's not that larger sensors are better, because better is defined by the needs of the user. Some people can't afford for subjects to fall in and out of focus too quickly, and they opt for smaller sensors and use wider lenses to get the FOV they want, with less DOF. I strictly use medium format speed boosters on My full frame camera for everything. Video, portraits, and event photography. Because the format size and compression effects, is my go to "canvas" to express my imagination. I don't even know how to like anything other than that, even if I'm limited to manual focus and vintage lenses for the rest of my life. It's not just FOV, it's compression, DOF at a given aperture, desired lens options, the list goes on. A 25mm lens will always give you some kind of "wide look" even if it's at a 50mm FOV, because it's 25MM! NOT 50MM! Not to mention bigger sensors not only demands physically longer focal lengths, they also demand getting closer than you normally would have, which also changes the way everything looks in the frame. I learn a lot from you video guys, buy you video guys have a lot to learn. And it's always the ones who's missing most of this knowledge, who's the first to put up an argument and make the most nonsensical comments.
Long story short, a 25mm lens on a MFT camera will give you more background in the frame and make your subject look smaller, than a 50mm lens on a FF camera. A physically longer lens gives the effect of "making your background and subject" look bigger, even if it's the same FOV you had with a 25 on a MFT. Try it out for yourself
Thanks for your knowledge and input! I absolutely agree, sensor size matters. That’s why I got the CC6K. Larger photosites theoretically will deliver a better image. All things being equal. And you’re right-a 50 mm lens on a full frame sensor is going to give you a much larger field of view than on a micro 4/3. It allows you to get wider shots without the distortion. On a Pocket 4K sometimes I have to be on a 24 when I’d rather be on a 50.
As I was watching this video i was scrolling around your other videos and found that all of your videos resonate with me. This is rare . You have a great combination of art and technicality of filmmaking. subscribed with Bell icon.👍👍👍👍👍 Please don't make just one type of videos always have combination between storytelling and technicalities.
I love this! Thank you. Def get deep in the weeds with story. It's all pointless without that -- In my online film school (writedirect.co) students go through about 25 lessons on story before they get into anything else. I think way too many students graduate from film schools without a proper foundation of story telling.
I picked up the camera and having lots of problems with CMOs smearing and horizontal banding in low light, that my pocket 6k pro handles beautifully (can shoot under exposed and correct in post with no loss of detail, while the CC6kFF can’t be fixed as the bands are permanent).
This is a real shame. Hoping it’s just a batch defect, otherwise it looks like I’ll be having to jump ship to Sony…
I’m not crazy about the low light performance. Open Gate is gorgeous when exposure is right, but the Pocket 4K does it better.
When encountering very serious ribbons in the dark light environment, I also consider that they can give you new equipment after sale
You can't use the bmp 4k or 6k cameras to crop in (windowing) without getting more noticeable noise. You have to record at the full range of any of their camera's sensor and resize the image later in a video editor. Don't down scale (windowing) in camera, unless noisy image is ok.
You’re absolutely right. I had always shot on pocket 4Ks and never did any sensor windowing. Thought I could do that on this one, but learned very fast that this was not the way to go. I was hoping the larger sensors would give me a more pristine 4K image. But that’s far from true with a windowed sensor. But yeah, the image downsized on the timeline is gorgeous.
they have the same image quality they are both 12 bit
Plus the exact same dynamic range. The 6k would have cleaner low light. If it was weather sealed, I would've jumped.
They actually don’t have the same image quality. A larger sensor with larger photosites can get a better quality image. And that’s what I’m seeing with 6K open gate. I'm also seeing differences in color in Resolve.
I am bit puzzled here for 3 things.
1. Oversampling IS a good thing and not Messy (08:43). Many cameras like the Z9 or S5IIx or FX30 have upscale 4K video from the 8.3K (for the Z9) and 6K for the other cameras. Which give at the end a sharper image and smaller noise (since it is coming from an oversampeled 6K image).
2. Window mode is CROP sensor = MORE NOISE / LESS SHARP than for example anything you shoot natively on the BMPCC4K. Every camera I used in Window mode (cropping the sensor) gave my inferior image (BMPCC6K, BMCC6K, Z9, Z8, SH1, S5IIX...).
3. CFexpress are cheaper than CFast. I use Angelbird cards for everything. a CFexpress SE that is capable to record in Q0 in the BMCC6K cost 129 USD in 512GB, and 529 USD in CFast for the BMPCC4K/6K.
1 & 2) This is good to know. I honestly thought cropping a full frame sensor to 4K would be better. But what I’ve seen with this confirms what you’re saying. 3) I know you can get Angelbird CFExpress at affordable prices but I’ve read too many bad reviews about the company. ProGear cards are way more expensive but they have the performance that others don’t.
@@writedirect Happy to help. Now regarding Angelbird, I have been hammering them like crazy on the Z9 and BMPCC6K (Now BMCC6K) for quite sometimes (way before the BMPCC4K) and they never skipped a bit.
Otherwise you can try OWC.
Good luck.
Aren't the squeeze factors on the 50mm lenses different? I thought the MFT is 1.33x and the full frame is 1.6x.
Yes, the 50mm Sirui anamorphic MFT is 1.33x and the Sirui Full Frame is 1.6.
Did you test the Pocket 4K and the Cinema 6K in ISO 6400? prepare to be surprised.
I focused on the two native ISOs. Primarily. Would love to know what happens!
@@writedirect very mediocre response (high noise) on the Cinema 6K (actually, unusable footage, at least for me, while the Pocket 4k still produces an image that doesn't fall apart.
@@rubenfernandezn thanks for the info. Normally (for whatever reason) I'm never pushing above native ISO. If I'm ever out of native it's below vs above. Otherwise I'm just lighting for native. I wish this sensor was the same quality as the P4K. BMD seems to be sticking with it since they used the same one in the PYXIS. I've been slammed...need to test more. Have only used it real world for a couple pickup shots on the current film.
Been rocking the Pocket 4K with a metabones speedbooster for awhile. Love it and will not get rid of it. However, after the announcement of the Pyxis 6K, I think my Pocket 4K is going to have to share a camera bag with it's boxy new brother. Mostly getting for the form factor, rigging options and the resolution when doing vfx. Your video also really put me at ease a bit on the FF 4k DCI mode.
Yeah, the Pocket 4K are incredible. And with a speedbooster even more so. But the PYXIS is a cool camera. The cinema camera 6K is better for what I do right now because I need the rear screen on a gimbal. And it’s the exact same sensor so I’m not worried. But when I get a second camera that will stay on sticks , definitely going for the box. And for what it’s worth, I still think shooting open gate or 6K DCI is better than cropped 4K DCI on the new sensor.
@@writedirect I never shot on a camera with open gate before, but from your video and a few others, it seems like it will really help when shooting in tight spaces. Also, I won't have to do the crop factor math when deciding on lenses unlike when shooting on the P4K. My Sigma art however would be used a lot less unless in the Super 35 mode or upgrade/trade for the L mount FF model.
@@AndrewZeletrainStudios you are absolutely right on the small spaces remark. Full frame makes that so much easier. I mean...I did it all the time on my Pocket 4K, but just had to be on a wider lens.
i went with the Sigma FP. It's a full frame camera in a tiny package. I would love a test between the FP and the Cinama 6K, but few people probably have both, and you really have to own the FP for a while before you can review it. I also have a P4K. I think everyone should own a P4K that is interested in cinema cameras. It will teach you everything you need to know, and it is an absolute bargain.
Yes...I really push the Pocket 4K in my online film school. I think it's such an incredible camera to learn the craft on.
I wish the dr was better on the fp
Very insightful thank you! The fullframe is on a crazy 40% off sale new right now :)
I know! Sent a note out to all my students. It’s an incredible deal. If I had money laying around, I’d get another one.
Why do you keep calling it the cinema 6? It’s the pocket 6 pro
This isn’t the pocket 6K. This is the newer full frame Cinema Camera 6K. The Pocket 6K it is a camera, but it’s a different camera. It uses a Super 35 sensor.
@@writedirect I stand corrected. I could have sworn it was called a pocket as well
@@JohnSobasky-g9f there is a Pocket 6K.
Really surprised by some of these tests, especially the low light comparison. We tend to shoot outside I’d say 90% of the time so the brighter articulating screen would be helpful. Still debating on saving up for 2 pocket 4ks with the metabones speed boosters. Lots of very helpful information here thank you so much!
This is a much more difficult decision than I would’ve guessed. Because the pocket 4K really does hold up against this new camera pretty well. They can’t keep up when you’re shooting 6K open gate, but the media and storage requirements for 6K open gate are insane. There is another 4K windowed mode: Super35 or 3:2. I did a quick test this morning and there appears to be slightly less noise than 4K DCI mode. I need to test further though. But have a feeling I’ll be shooting in that mode a lot with anamorphic lenses when storage is an issue.
@@writedirect yes I would love to see more tests on this, the file sizes for open gate are huge so that is an important factor as well. Really appreciate you taking the time to do this. It is very beneficial on so many levels. Looking forward to seeing more comparisons and footage.
I've been rocking with the pocket 4K and the .64xl MB speed booster for 2 years and it's honestly insane how much of a value this camera still packs! It's AMAZING in low light with the SB. You can look at my channel for some low light examples. Everything is filmed on the pocket 4K.
I have the same set-up (P4K + .64xl) and use Zeiss Milvus superspeeds (f1.4) and yes, low light is amazing. I also use the zeiss lenses without the SB for a different focal length, but also better edge to edge sharpness and focus falloff when I need it. Looks like it's still going to take a bigger upgrade to motivated me.@@MtZionMediaPro
@@JonasStuart that's a great setup! Really, the only camera I'd "upgrade" to would be the Ursa 12k OLPF for Data read out speeds, over sampled lower resolutions, & the I/O that comes with it. Make the 4k my B-cam.
Weirdly?? I prefer the less clinical color science of the 4k. Like how the 4k is more clinical than the original BMCC 2.5K and people prefer the BMCC for being more filmic than digital. The fullframe one feels even more clean digital albiet cinematic definitely
Interesting! My first Blackmagic Camera was the Pocket 4K. Haven’t even seen footage from the earlier model. I would love for you to expound on clinical. This is something that didn’t hit me personally when I was looking at the footage. Not in disagreement. Would just like to hear more from you on that.
Excellent video and just what I was looking for! I've been using the P4K with Metabones 0.64XL speedbooster for years now and always loved the image. It's much more pleasing than e.g. the Sony A7SIII or FX3 and the Canon R5 (ok RAW is super nice, too).
I also have 10 EF lenses that switch perfectly between the boosted P4K and the Canon. I have renewed my struggle with the P4K since the Blazar Remus anamorphic lenses were released and have been thinking of going for the FF6K, but I think I'll be just fine with the old stuff.
I think you have a great set up. The “old stuff” is still new. It’s what I recommend my students @ Write & Direct purchase. I just wrapped a 30-minute short film on pocket 4Ks with Sirui anamorphic lenses. Very happy with the results.
20:24 resolution from your 6K at 4K is showing 4096 x 1620 compared to the 4K at 4096 x 2160. Could this account for the difference in file size?
Yeah, it must be something funky with the 4K DCI window. Today I tested using the windowed 4K Super35 mode and the file size is slightly larger than the Pocket 4K which is what it should be. ALSO...the windowed Super35 is performing better than the windowed 4K DCI. I almost wonder if they've got something wrong on the firmware...who knows. But happy to know the Super 35 mode is giving me 4K footage on par with the Pocket...at least on the first ISO bank.
Feel like the different squeeze factors of the anamorphic lenses should have been mentioned, since the MFT shots only have a 1.33x squeeze vs the Full Frame having 1.6x
Good point. I’m posting a second round of review footage on Monday. I’ll mention it there. Thank you!
Very useful content. Would you still recommend the Sirui 50mm T2.9 Full Frame 1.6x Anamorphic Lens for the 6k full frame? Can you do a video on them if you haven't yet?
I can’t do a video on that lens at the moment, but would absolutely recommend. I plan on getting their 75mm next.
I sold my P4K for the P6K Pro and I have to admit that the difference in image quality is negligible. I actually miss the MFT mount and the amount of lens choices it gave me. The only real benefit I see with the 6K Pro is the addition of internal ND filters and better screen. The former is a game changer. From what I have been seeing with the 6K FF, the step-up in image quality is once again fairly small, it's the change of FoV that might be the most welcome.
I agree with you. The brighter screen is hands-down incredible for pulling focus outside. And the larger field of view is nice, but you could obviously do that with the metal bones on the pocket 4K. Like you’re saying though, it’s the overall combination of features that makes it worth considering over the PCC4K.
The poor version, Bmpcc4k with the Metabones speedbooster T (for the OG pocket) 0.58x almost full frame (1.1 crop factor)
You know what man? After really comparing these two cameras, your version isn't poor at all. The Pocket 4K's freaking rule.
@@writedirectseriously! If you could do a camera comparison FOV & Low light test with the .64xl SB by Metabones that would be awesome!!!
@@MtZionMediaPro The P4K has a crop of about 1.9 so coupled with the .64XL it becomes 1.2. There is no 0.58x booster for the system, the 1.2 crop factor is the best you can get. I've had the .64XL for years along with my Canon R5 and the crop factor is small but noticeable.
@@KaarloMedia You can use the speedbooster T designed for the OG pocket 0.58x on the 4k (it not touch the sensor) and get a 1.1 crop factor, even some full frame lenses create vignetting...
@@EduGranastein how is the optical quality?
I like how you address a variety of filmmaking topics on your channel. I did not notice any videos about finding amateur actors. Do you have any suggestions?
Hey! Thanks for checking out my channel. I do get into that stuff in my actual online film school. But there are websites you can post projects on and also...just use your friends. On the last film I shot that's now in post, only two of the actors were experienced and/or SAG eligible. The other 7+ actors were just friends. But I wrote them roles with them in mind, which is a big part of it. Martin Scorsese even said, "Don't be afraid to put non actors in your movies."
Damn the pocket 4k looks really good
I know, right?
I don't think top Hollywood movies use full frame.
You’re right, a lot of films are shot Super 35. However, other films like Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 are using new RED V-Raptor which is full frame.
They really are smashing apart the industry, these cameras are incredible
YES! I love this company.
@@writedirecti just don't like the design, at all
@@d.edwardsfreelanceeditorvi4212 I get that. I just know what we had when I first started filmmaking. XL2s and stuff like that. Complete junk. Bulky as all get out. So coming from those days, I’m an easy please with form factor. Especially if the camera delivers!
Larger photo sites has more luminosity captured data are in the luminosity.
It’s odd that the 4K DCI cropped sensor is producing smaller sizes than the pocket 4K.
Go home!
Booyah!
After the PYXIS announcement everyone going crazy cause of the convenience of the camera shape , PL mount option, user friendly structure and solid metal construction , either me too , & plannig for a feature project on this camera , with all of Vespid primes ( PL mount ) , would like to know shooting on which mode suitable for Feature Films which can give better quality than pocket4k or pocket6k pro on PYXIS/BMCC FF in terms of noise & rolling shutter !
First, only shoot open gate. If you crop this full frame sensor down you get noise. Secondly, you’re obviously shooting in film mode, 24 frame with a 1/48 shutter. Third, use good prime lenses. I personally use Sirui Venus anamorphic. The other thing: Rolling shutter. You can actually fix a lot of that in Resolve.
@@writedirect Okay but i want 1.85:1 AKA 17.9 Aspect ratio for theaterical release ( personally i don't like Anamorphic crop wide look ) and Open Gate 3:2 , how to resolve this ?
@@arunr4103 you could shoot 6KDCI mode. That won’t introduce noise like the 4K cropping. But I would also do some experimenting. Shoot open gate with guides and crop in post versus cropping the sensor to 6KDCI. I think they’ll be close, but you might see a slight improvement shooting open gate and placing footage on your preferred timeline aspect ratio.
@@writedirect it's a bit difficult to calculate while shooting in open gate when u want to crop on fav aspect ratio in post
@@writedirect I think the more practical way is to shoot in 6K DCI for easy post production
I dont understand why you make such a big deal about the different field of view with different sensor sizes. A 50 on full frame looks different on mft? So what? If i want the full frame 50 look i use a 25. why should i care about the field of view of a system i dont own? I know exactly which lenses i need for the field of view i want and i really dont care what it is on any other system. Do full frame owners care about what a 50 is on a medium or a large format camera? They dont, so why should i care about full frame?
I just wrapped production on a film shooting on two Pocket 4Ks. Sometimes we were shooting in a small cabin or barn. And yes, I was able to throw a 24mm on but I still couldn’t get a full shot. Would have to go wider. And that introduces distortion that I don’t want. So the ability to shoot with a 50 and huge FOV is a big deal for me. But it’s definitely not something everyone is gonna need.
@@writedirect distortion can be corrected easy, we dont live in the stone ages anymore. If you get below 50 mm on a full frame you get distortion as well and still many people use super wide 16-35 35 mm lenses anyway. Me personally never saw any distortion with my 12 - 40mm olympus mft pro lense on the short end. Normal people even prefer the look of wide lenses as it makes the face longer, smaller and more attractive and they are used to the wide smartphone selfie look. Sometimes filmmakers make issues out of things consumers dont even notice..
@@castielvargastv7931 what you're saying is true and also subjective. Alfred Hitchcock, for example, didn't shoot less than I think 50mm typically. And I def wouldn't be most people with my full frame. My next lens will be a 75 not under 50 whereas for my Pocket 4K I was on the 24mm all the time. You've very passionate about this topic! That's a good thing. We're passionate about what we love. And FOV isn't the only reason to move to a full frame camera. It's just one IMO.
@@writedirect many ways lead to rome. At the end creativity is all that matters no matter what tools we use🍀🍀🍀
@@castielvargastv7931 yes!!!
On the file sizes I am wondering what the discrepancy between clip resolution and sensor area captured is all about.
Maybe it’s the reason the 6K creates less data? 🤔
That’s a great question. You’d think the larger sensors would have a larger data size. My take away: I would never shoot 4K DCI mode on the CC6K. The other 4K mode is doable. But what’s the point? If I want to shoot 4K have the pocket 4K. Or a camera with a full frame 4K sensor.
@@writedirect oh I mean on the files you pulled up and showed some of the 6K’s files have different clip resolutions and sensor area resolutions for the same clip.
Yeah the 6Ks noise is worse on a pixel per pixel basis. It only becomes “better” when you have more pixels (when you shoot in 6K) and the noise thus becomes smaller.
I have the 6K too and you really need to learn its limitations to be able to use it without surprises in post.
Larger photosites should have been more light sensitive in theory but I guess the sensor is only half of the story when it comes to light sensitivity. Am guessing the A/D are to blame.
@@MrCoffis I also need to put this camera through some work to see what it can do. Larger photosites should win all day long. So I wonder if there’s a quality difference in this sensor versus the pocket 4K sensor? I’ve heard this is a 3rd party sensor, not made BMD themselves. However, they must believe in it because they put the same exact sensor in the PYXIS. So I’m hoping it’s solid!
@@writedirect I doubt the performance on the pyxis will be any different am afraid. I also get heavy banding in my image when there is a lot of purple and blue underexposure in false colours. This is a killer to the DR of the camera. You can always use NR on noise but banding can only be pushed away into the shadows.
Blackmagic always has been using sony sensors.
According to the limitations of the sensor in the FF it should be the sony IMX410.
Idk if they use their own ADC or the sensor comes with inbuilt ones which can make a difference.
@@MrCoffis yeah, the PYXIS will be identical to the CC6K. I can't imagine BMD being okay with something like this. I need to do more testing...been slammed. Have three new prime lenses in and haven't even put them on the camera yet.
4k sensors looks like the size of a micro sd card lol compared to the mammoth 6kff
Hahaha. Yeah, you’re not kidding. The full frame sensor is impressive. However, as much as I like this new camera, the Pocket 4K is really freaking good. The sensor size increase is not an equal quality increase. Pocket still an incredible option for indie film.
@@writedirect definitely I actually own the 6K and the 4K I would love to get my hands on the full frame just to see what they can do but no matter what black magic definitely is a Powerhouse in the game
@@448FILMS agreed! I think if I was shooting a feature length film right now, I could use the FF6K and pull it off! But I might have the Pocket 6K on standby for low light. Still need to do more testing.
I have had my 4K since 2019, purchased and delivered from a small camera dealer, while all these people were in that "Empire Strikes Back" theater line on a 6 month waitiing list. I like my 4K! Sure. 4/3rds sensor, larger than the Sony F900 tv camera's sedor (Broadcast 2/3rds) that Lucas and Rodriquez used in the early 2000s. No problem with that However. as far as the Cinema 6? Well... MEESA WANT!!
Awesome. For what it’s worth, I think the pocket 4K is still an amazing choice. Sure this new model is a gorgeous image. But it has weaknesses that the 4K doesn’t. The 4K is what I recommend to my students, hands-down.
Why ? 10:39, the windowed 4K DCI mode it gives a bit larger fov because of the resolution of the sensor not because of the sensor size. Imagine if the full frame sensor had 18K res, at 4K DCI crop you would see only the head of the girl.
It’s actually not the resolution. It’s the physical sensor size. For example, if you had 4K 6K and 8K MFT mount cameras they would all have the same field of view. And in the same way, if you had 4K 6K and 12 K full frame, they would all have the same field of view as well. The resolution is just the amount of pixels crammed into the same space. And that’s why a larger sensor with larger photosites can achieve a better quality image than the same resolution on a smaller sensor.
@@writedirect I don't agree, :D imagine cropping 4K DCI from a 12K Full rame image sensor. what the field of view would be ?
@@writedirect You said 'a windowed 4K DCI on A full frame sensor is still going to be larger then the micro 4/3 sensor' ,well ONLY if the sensor has relatively small resolution. IF you wold had a 18K full frame sensor and you would crop in 4K DCI you would have a really really small window, and that would be MUCH smaller then a 4/3 sensor. So yes, resolution on sensors in this case DOES matter when you crop to a certain resolution. Think about it twice :D
@ZsomborSandor I stand corrected. You're totally right on that -- If you're windowing a sensor to 4K DCI and the full sensor size is 12K, the physical area of the windowed 4K would be smaller than MFT. In this scenario since we're dealing with a full frame 6K the physical size of a windowed 4K is larger than MFT.
@@writedirect 👌
I found this video because i was thinking about getting myself a 6k .. had the 4k for a couple of years..
Now i am even more on the fence. Watching this on my phone i couldt really tell the difference betwin the shots when it comes to noise.. and i want it to shoot bar/nightlife ish stuff.. and really hopee the sensor size would help me get closer and reduce noise. But inthought it would do more.
I have been using metabones .64 xl speedbooster with ef lenses all along. And have since then changed my photo camera to rf.. so this L-mount is throwing me off... Should i get the sirui as an ef just tonbe able to use it on both maybe? I rock r5 when i need autofocus.
If you weren’t buying the camera for low light entirely, I’d say get it. But if you’re after low light performance, I would honestly look at the Pocket 4K/6K. I think the image off this camera looks really good. I think it’s better than the pocket 4K. And if you’re doing a combo of stuff, then it’s still a great option. But if you’re primarily low light, it will deliver but not better than the pockets IMO. Also remember BRAW does no noise, removal in camera. Other cameras are doing that in cameras so the footage looks better, but it’s not really better, it’s had processing done. I like controlling the noise removal in Resolve. Regarding L mount: Blackmagic design has partnered into the L-Mount stuff. I don’t know what that means for future cameras. But yeah, you could get full frame lenses with L mounts and get an adapter. Also, look at my round 2 of tests. I do NR on one of the shots.
Great review, thank you.
I appreciate it!
I'm watching this video, but I can't get your role as the outlaw out of my head. You're still the outlaw, only now you're comparing cameras. 😂
Hahaha!!!!’ Awesome! Thanks for watching the first film. The sequel is in grading now. More outlaw coming your way soon. :)
how did you adapt the lenses
I didn’t. Used Sirui 50mm MFT and Sirui 59mm FF. Same for Meike.
Are you experiencing colour banding at iso bellow 400, such as 200?
I’m experiencing a lot of colour banding on the rear LCD screen.
I haven’t shot below 400. I typically expose to ISO like film vs use ISO as an exposure tool. Are you saying with proper exposure at a low iso you’re seeing issues? Because you really have to crank your lights to shoot at a low ISO.
When encountering very serious ribbons in the dark light environment, I also consider that they can give you new equipment after sale
It's a smaller file size because the resolutions are different on the windowed 4k and the pocket 4k. It's in the file info
You’re right - But the odd thing about it is the Pocket 4K is a native 4K DCI sensor. So windowed 4K DCI on the CC6K should be the same. Or so I thought.
thank you very much for the comparison
Hope it helps any decisions -- It wasn't easy for me to decide! Nice to see how well the Pocket 4K performs. Do you own one of them already?
Yes, I have BMPCC4K. Thanks to your comparison, I decided to switch to BMCC6K.
@@OlegShtyk cool man. Would love to hear what you think!
sensor size does not matter. almost every movie that’s been made in hollywood has used the super 35. stop this nonsense with your full frame
Not if you’re Chris Nolan. Hahaha. But it’s not nonsense. Larger photosites can yield better images-If the sensors are of the same quality. Emphasis on “if.”
Sensor size litterally makes a difference en he just showed you... What he didnt go into specifically is that when the lenses is bigger its t-stop is bigger.. meaning even if the photosites were the same size you would get a bit cleaner image .this ofc depends on the lenses.. that is one reason why arri lenses are so expensive.
Also as a beginner you dont have big crews and headsets and stuff.. so you do not want to shoot 1 or two actors from 30 meters away to get your shot because it adds so much time and invonnveniance in simple communication on set..
Sensor size is just as much about workflow as it is about physics.
@@Grasseatereu a larger sensor, built to the same quality as the smaller sensor can yield better results. From what I’m told, this new sensor was not made by black magic design. It’s full frame, but not as good per se as the pocket cameras. At least that’s my understanding. Totally agree with you on the workflow set. Field of view is a big deal. Especially in tight spots.
@@writedirectI can guarantee you i can make images that completely blow your bmcc 6k away with a 11 year old canon 700d with a super35 sensor and s35 lenses.
Sensor size really isn't that important as you think. A sensor is a sensor. It's literally an analog data capturing device that gets sampled to a digital domain.
What you seem to recognise as "better image quality" is a combination of Full frame glass, allowing you to operate the lens at higher quality apertures such as f4 and still retain decent depth of field. Also the internal image processing and the tendency for fullframe to suffer from less shot noise are other major contributing factors. That's pretty much it. Notice how most of this has nothing to do with the sensor itself, but more with the glass and the processor?
An aps-c camera with 12bit linear raw and a completely unprocessed image such as dng raw can wipe the floor with the bmcc 6k
Camera image sensors are the one field in photography that is full of misinformation
@@shueibdahir you're making assumptions that I don't understand things like aperture, DOF and cinema glass. Maybe this would apply to the casual YT videographer, but it doesn't apply here. I fully believe that you could produce a better image on an older camera and/or cropped sensor than a novice. If you couldn't, you wouldn't be worth your day rate. But my point is putting newer tech in the hands of someone like you. So I guess I don't understand your comment. Are you just letting us all know you have experience? Because all things being equal, a larger sensor will beat a smaller sensor every time. And you're gonna have a tough time arguing that with data.
These cameras match up very well together.
Blackmagic Design knows how to do it right. Grant Petty rocks!
Do you think they'll add ProRes to the Cinema 6K?
I doubt it. That's a license fee and most people who are BMD fans probably don't use it. I never have - not even a single time, and we're all Macs here.
True indeed. @@writedirect
I think the main thing people like about ProRes is the smaller file size, @@writedirect
You can get a Blackmagic Video Assist if you need to record ProRes. It will only be 1080p from the HDMI out on the 6K FF, but on the upcoming Pyxis camera, you’ll be able to use SDI to record 4K ProRes on the Video Assist.
Blackmagic needs to TAKE OVER! But they only need 2 things that are holding them back! IBIS and autofocus that works! Yes it’s a great narrative camera but when it comes to a fast pace interview/wedding etc as a solo cinematography it’s not the ideal purchase! And they took away ND! But imagine quality is like no other
I agree -- BMD is INCREDIBLE. The combination of hardware and DaVinci Resolve is so amazing for indie filmmakers. I don't need internal ND. Have a nice variable ND from Polar Pro. But yeah, this camera is all about narrative filmmaking. It's def not a wedding/fast paced documentary camera.
Think of black magic cameras as poor man's Arri-- if you wouldn't use an Arri to shoot it, black magic cameras won't work either MOST of the time. They're shooting for the Cinema market.
@@MtZionMediaPro you're spot on.
It was really useful and scientific. Thank you for taking the time to make this video
Thanks for watching! So will you get one?
Great video. Thank you so much
Are you using the new Cinema Camera 6K yet? Did you have a Pocket CC?