oh god...specially on mobile, was reading some wiki and adds literally whole mobile screen.... and content is just small box... I would gladly turnoff addblocks if they put on reasonable places...
The fact they revealed Solution Nine so early during the fanfests would seem to backup the idea that they had concerns about story reception. The only thing that kept me slogging through the MSQ was looking forward to the reveal of the Solution Nine story
My theory is that they dont want to give instant whiplash of the theme so they said fk it and reveal solution 9, i mean just look at the expac theme from tropical stuff then suddenly sci fi cyberpunk city wtf LOL 😂😂😂
Square is milking the game since Stormblood. They put at little effort as possible into it and why shouldn't they? The found easy replacement with stupid WoW players they can sell their markteting lies to. Us old FF14 players, who didn't start eight years later alwas knew that Square is now selling al those lies via social media clowns to you but of course you didn't listen. Game is shit like that since YEARS. You just fell for a marketing illusion they sold to you.
I didn’t see it in the fanfests lol. It wasn’t the plot that was bad, honestly, it was that the characters all start out one dimensional. They get better as time goes on though
Rotating the scions is EXACTLY what I wanted from DT, I was really excited when Thancred and Urianger were opposing us and it would have been so cool to fight them as bosses occasionally. I think that friendly, adversarial vibe would have REALLY fit the "vacation" part of DT. Characters that you know, but are taking on a totally different roles than what we're used to.
Thancred, Urianger and Koana becoming an end dungeon triple-boss like in Tower of Zot would have made me SO excited. Imagine having to deal with a tank/healer/DPS trio as a boss battle.
That WOULD be cool but the problem is the majority of the playerbase is soft and doesn't want to "fight our friends, that's mean". No sense of growth or challenge, no friendly sparring, no wanting to see how far your boys have come.
@@KyonV13 That makes no sense since we do friendly sparring with Gulool JaJa in the same expansion, not to mention Sadu in Stormblood, Hoary Boulder in ARR, etc...
I mean yeah but every expansion also had a foundation set from everything that came before it, dawntrail is a fresh start where nothing that weve done and known from the previous story sets up this one Theres no getting our blessing back, no worrying about the garlean empire and no ascian shenanigans to investigate the realm or the scions was not in danger etc etc, which other expansions had as a backing to their story in some shape or form. Its as much of a fresh start as a realm reborn was , slowly being introduced to a new land just the tutorial level stuff is being pushed through wuk lamat instead of us. Not literally but you get the point.
every other expansion had hooks since ARR. building relations with Ishgard lead to HW both stormblood relations have refugees settling in la noscea ShB is basically a conclusion to the Ascians of ARR endwalker focuses heavily on the garlean empire not trying to defend DT since I'm not playing it but I saw how disappointing it was going to be from the endwalker post msq
Hell, ShB was us going to a whole ass different shard. EVERYTHING there was entirely new to us, save for the Crystal Tower, yet that expansion didn't have anywhere near the same amount of issues this one did.
@@TheBunfather it had the entire crystal tower, the scions being divided, the emet selchs appearance. The story of whats happening in the source because we had to deal with black rose, Ardberts re appearance Minfillias re appearance Whatever the hell Zenos was doing since he was getting his body back Shadow bringers had the biggest amount of pay off despite it also being a new land, it had a ton of familiar elements to also go along with it. All that kind of shit was all resolved by the time we get to dawn trail, with the most interesting thing it had set up was the whole scions having to fight each other, which didnt go anywhere.
@@sgr_sean So does Dawntrail?? You can't just skip to it. Its built on the foundations of everything before it still, especially towards its end. If you just jumped in raw you'd be hopelessly lost when they start rambling about shards, wondering who half these characters are, what the deal with Krile is, whats a primal? Whats aether? It doesn't explain any of these things its still very much a sequel. Theres a reason new players aren't just thrown into Dawntrail when they start now.
We basically get that in Shadowbringers. We get transported to an unknown alien world, purple trees and a travelling merchant greeting you with a bottle of alcohol. "Yeah head on over there if you are lost." And we meet our first new character of many. Hey the scions are not here you'll need to find them again pick a region to start and explore!
I got tired being dragged along with Wuk Lamat and we technically only knew that character for a collective month. I'd rather see familiar faces sparingly than be stuck with THAT 'new face' ever again.
Yeah especially for those that have created back stories for their mains. I know RP realms have a stigma but I've never been a big fan of Generic Hero No. 959197879 whose only real goal is getting gear and loot. My own main for example is mirrored a lot like Kratos in God of War. She's a staunch veteran whose cloaked in guilt because of her past and seeks redemption. Her own personal quest would be epic, not merely stopping another world ending threat via certain NPC's guiding by the nose but perhaps something along the lines of something similar to the Ishgard Restoration where in both aspects you can help rebuild certain areas and maybe clear out enemies the same way. My main took the Ishgard Restoration as a means for her to work up to forgiveness and redemption for things she had done in the past. Has to be blanket though covering both crafting and PVE content. Not everyone is an omnicrafter like myself.😁
@@JustinStrife It's hilarious to me that skipping Wuk Lamat's dialogue doesn't actually affect one's ability to understand the story. In almost the entire expansion, she never said anything important--her dialogue was never necessary to understand a scene, and you could literally guess what she was going to say anyway. "I will become Dawnservant --> I will protect my people --> Sphene! Listen!" That's it, aside from some comic relief that got old in the first two hours of the expansion.
@@JustinStrife they messed up by not doing what Mike had been saying the entire expansion. Wuk Lumat needed to get "humbled". I liked that she was a love and peace will always win character because it shows just how naïve she is to how the world really works. The issue is that not once is she ever proven wrong. Her love and peace mentality DOES win the day. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. This is why I find it hard to disagree with the notion that Dawntrail is a children's Saturday morning cartoon. Wuk Lumat desperately needed to be knocked down a few pegs. She needed to be shown how awful the world (and its people) can really be. Just compare the Alphinaud/Alisaie making peace with the Garleans with Wuk Lumat making peace with the Mamool Ja. One was a struggle bathed in blood that barely managed to happen at all (and is barely holding together from what I can tell). The other happened because: "We all live here so lets be friends, okay?" "Okay!"
The problem was not that the Scions were in the story on top of Wuk Lamat. The issue is that the Scions were not used in the story in a way at times that would make sense. It's true that our WoL and Scions took a supportive role and let Wuk Lamat and Koana grow as characters. But our WoL and Scions could still have had a more involved presense with them. Help guide them and be the emotional support etc. Dawtrails best moments were when the Scions had some of that focus: Thancred and Urianger talking to Koana privately, Alisae being briefly concerned toward our WoL, the boat moment with Kraha, Krile and Erenville having their own moments in the last map. Those moments stood out. We only needed a few more of those moments to show why everyone was there. Also our chosen dialogue options at times should have been better. Having options that are the same thing and same tone in a sense but worded a bit differently are just useless to have. If you give us a option for dialogue, then make those options actually different. We all know that these only change the next 1-3 dialogue bubbles but it still matters to keep our WoL have a consistent way of acting. Be it helpfull, neutral or a jerk etc. Wuk Lamat almost had a few great moments too with our WoL. But I think those ended too fast. They did not get deep / personal enough as Wuk Lamat usually turned back to the "I am fine" brave face mode. She as a character almost got those vulnerable character moments at times but those were pulled away from us before they truly could form properly. As a result her character lacked that personal feel towards us and depth in general. Wuk Lamat also had an issue with the voice acting as a lot of the delivery was on a similar flat tone. Very limited vocal range did not help when the dialogue is "I will beat you", "I will be the dawnservant", "I have come to understand others" etc. in and out of combat. Those lines sound like Naruto or many other typical hero character that go the route of "the power of friendship" but lacking emotions and body states like distress and short of breath due to heavy combat. Also the antagonist characters did not have enough moments about themselves. Bakool Ja Ja was a jerk and an idiot until certain reveals where his character takes a turn. This took way too long to establish. For example the writing felt annoyingly simple in one of the combat encounters as we do not have any real idea why he acts the way that he does. Later on the player understands this but that "poor writing" feel was already felt. Zoraal Ja also suffers on this as his behaviour is properly explained at a very late moment of his story. Which is insane as there was no proper indication prior to it that would have giving us any idea of it. Reasons for his behaviour would have been way better if they revolved around his actual position in the Landsguard. This would have been a way more reasonable direction to built his mindset.
The problem with a character like WL is you HAVE to like her for the story to work. She's way too big a part of things, and has way too much screen time for people to be mixed on how they feel about her and still enjoy the expansion story. This whole story felt a lot like a DM who forgot they had D&D this week, and didn't really prepare anything. So they came up with one idea, beat it to death, and dragged things out until it was time for them to get out of there.
The problem is her performance but also her character just doesn’t seem like a leader. Remember Hien? Remember Aymeric? Both of those guys were instantly endearing. Wuk Lamat did not feel good enough to be a leader and her growth didn’t feel natural
I started out feeling neutral but optimistic towards her character, but ended up sick of her flat delivery and empty saccharine platitudes by the end. Sphene didn't need or deserve any sympathy, least of all from someone as emotionally undeveloped as Wuk.
@@Adu767 tbh I have more issues with how awful of a character Sphene was than I do with Wuk Lamat. I am used to being really invested in the antagonists in this game- Sphene and Zoraal Ja are the worst two major MSQ villains by far imo.
@@Keira_Blackstone I could give or take Zoraal Ja. As far as I'm concerned, he was just undercooked as a villain. With Sphene, I was almost annoyed with her as I was with Wuk Lamat. For all her repeated lamentation over how ineffectual she was over procuring resources needed to keep her citizens and their lifestyle going, it was all I could do to stop myself for screaming at the screen that she should step down as leader if she felt that way. All I could think was, "Enough, already!"
I know this will probably never happen, but give me the B team scions. Hoary Boulder and so on. They've been rocking with us all this time, let's give them a moment to shine. Also, I think the best (imo) would be to give the "normal" scions a rest. People can grow tired of certain characters after a while, so maybe the WoL going off on their own completely for a few patches might be good for the story. They could even mirror it (not sure if that's the right phrasing) to the start of our ARR journey.
No thanks, that sounds even more boring than Wuk Lamat. If you give me an expansion with Hoary Boulder being the MC and calling him ''Hoary'' or ''Mr. Boulder'', that's when I will truly accept that the FF writers have ran out of fuel.
@@Zindril Fair enough, but who's to say they can't make an odd character like Hoary great? I certainly didn't care who lyse was at first. Thancred to me was just a giant shill and he grew on me. On the flip side I don't care one bit about hearchfant though. So who can say, they could turn the B team into legends in the lore, give it a chance bud! (It'll never happen).
I posted this on other videos too. My problem is that he didn't address the main issue. Which is dialogue writing. Dialogue quality is considerably worse than Ishikawa's in ShB and EW. I hope they're aware of that issue and I'm glad at least he acknowledges the pacing and too much Wuk Lamat. (Though the main issue with her is dialogue writing & execution. Not her being unsure & how she develops as he seems to think) DT's story is great in concept, the execution is what the issue is. Yoshida seems to think it's because EW was a climax but it's not. It's that the execution of DT's great story concept wasn't good. Last zone hit the feels, but it could've hit even more if it was all executed properly. And that's coming from me, someone who actually liked DT quite a bit, because of last two zones.
Could also be the case where he doesn't want to clearly flame the writers for the sub-par work, so is giving more bland answers to issues in the msq. But that's an idea. And the last two areas, while being great, suffer from the same issues as the rest. The potential in those two areas was so great and yet is treated like a kids show anyway, in terms of most of the resolutions that happen there.
I’m not surprised, but I was afraid this would happen. They will focus on the presumption, “fans don’t like the weak first act of our new story” instead of addressing the structural issues with the development process.
@@geek593Nah disagree, i think a lot of execution problems could have been fixed if we get to see more Zoral ja motivations, Bakool ja ja actually releasing valigar and fight him instead of just pus*y out to let us fight, let Wuk work with Bakool/Zoraal ja so we can see their conflicting ideals clash, more Krile stuff, actually meeting Erenville's mom early in shaolaani/ysaalani then the whole heritage found thing happen, let us fight through Tural till we only see Zoraal land killing blow instead of us standing there doing nothing, etc. Theres probably more i missed but personally i liked the 2nd part especially otis and alexandria stuff but again a lot of exectuion problems
I really appreciate that Yoshi-p is willing to take the ACTUAL criticisms of the game head-on, rather than never talking about it, or doing the media-trained thing of talking around the actual issues by referencing marginal things that the players don't really see as the main problem. It's very promising that he seems to acutely understand the story's failings already. Your fear in these moments is that the devs will be too proud/stubborn or insulated to take on board and be thoughtful about what the community is actually saying. Blizzard was like that for a looooong time.
Considering he took the brunt of FF14's original failure, it's good that he's still prepared for the issues. I, personally, didn't mind Dawntrail but I do think people were incredibly harsh. That isn't to say it didn't have its problems because it DOES, but this is just the first patch. I do think they're cooking on something and I'm happy the devs are aware folks are 'eh' about it.
@@ignightroad Oh thank you for this post! I was wondering if I was the only one who thought this way. It's just the beginning. They just need time to get into the groove of a new story =)
All they really had to do was introducing us (Warrior of Light) as role model and mentor for WL (who starts weak and with troubled personality) and make sure that WL is appreciating us the longer we travel with her and she is developing her character taking example of our actions and that she is the one who SEEKS US to guide her and help her making decisions and that we are the ones that temper her rush actions and that in the end WE ARE THE ONES who saves her, correct her mistakes, rescue her from rush decisions she makes, not other way around (becasue it doesn't make sense... we are so OP after Endwalker that it's just riddiculous we would ever need WL help). And the end should be that WL became a better person, leader and friend becasue she got a role model of famous Warrior of Light who is well-respected in realms as Hero. Instead we got a role of side kick to WL (whos nobody to us really), running her errands and having to deal with her annoying personality, solving her problems and in the end - she came to HELPS US? Like, bitch, I 1v1 freaking Zenos in epic duel among a fucking stars. A dude who wouldn't even look into WL direction, becasue he only wanted to fight strongest being, which was I. But nah, I need WL to help me fight some mad local chick after I fought galactic being that destroyed whole civilizations.... Whoever wrote all of that should get fired.
I completely agree; we needed to take on a mentor role. Instead we were a cheerleader that didn't say a single critical thing against Wuk Lamat, and in the end, she stole our LB3.
An expansion where the WoL is whisked off to some random shard hampered in their strength and out of contact with their allies the entire time. That would be a great expansion meeting new people and as an unknown just stepping up despite the odds to save the land and find a way back home in the end.
@@Colaschnittchen Pretty much. There isn't much reason why the Scions couldn't simply follow if we went to say Meracydia, and not likely anything about being in Mercydia that I could see nerfing our power. Being forced to a different shard in an incomplete form seems the best way to handle both those problems.
@@Colaschnittchen The only issue with that is I'd say it would turn into a 'splitting the team' situation unless its specifically a situation only the WoL can handle with no reason for any of them to join us. Estenien would be rather interesting in a way in a siutation where both get somehow nerfed down having to deal with a problem together.
Yeah, she did, but she got back a few quests later, it wasn't as long as Lyse. We knew that Lyse was going to return at some point, due to the amount of time we spent with her, but that's 3 expansions later long.
@@Xport9a few quests later? No she was out of commission for the entire launch patch. She recovered at the end of the msq and returned to the story for post patch quests.
They were too nervous about committing to any one angle regarding the characters so they tried to do a little of everything and it turned into a mess. Just have us mess around with Azem's Doorknob (giggity) and accidentally end up in a random reflection and we have to learn the correct way to use it in order to get back. Maybe we can find a way to pull Zero over and then bring in 5 or 6 new characters that happen to be warriors of light from that reflection that actually remember us. They all had the same dream on the same night of appearing by our side and fighting an armored warrior at the top of a crystal tower, followed by "to the edge" being stuck in their heads for days. They know of a powerful mage in another nation there that may be able to give us some insight on properly using the crystal to get home so we set off for adventure. No scions, clear objective, plenty of unknown to explore. Meanwhile poop occurs on the source and the scions have to deal with it without their trump card, setting us up for 9.0 when we get back.
If I may one change to that, I don't think a story about not being able to return from a diff shard would make any sense considering this is a mmo and the game won't stop you from say visiting the rising stones to say hi to tataru at anytime. that being said, what it could do is a very similar plot but instead of the problem being that we can't go home, have the core problem be we need to stay in the shard to prevent say a calamity like with shadowbringers, but this time we are alone, we used the hourglass and we can travel to the new shard but we haven't learnt yet how to bring anyone with us
@@25xxfrostxx I’m still convinced that DT should have been the Endwalker patch MSQ where we take a beach adventure and meet some new locals and the Zero/Golbez arch should have been the new expansion. The story with Zero was way better than DT.
I know this is a bit too convenient, but the final days happened in a relatively small area, they did not have time to extend to the whole world before we solved it. Not even Sharlayan was affected.
I was hoping Dawntrail would have been me and Krile having an adventure to find her past as the central focus with Wack Lebron being off to the side, but instead got the exact opposite.
I never understood people saying "its a new story so of course its slow and not that interesting" when Shadowbringers exist. Shadowbringers had a brand new world with brand new NPCs that we knew nothing about and STILL managed to be super interesting right from the start. It wasn't Emet lore dumping us about overarching "10 years in the making" story stuff that made Shadowbringers interesting, the MSQ was already interesting before all that.
Wrong, Shadowbringers was still part of the same story. Dawntrail is part of a brand new story entirely. It's not hard to grasp that. With something like that it'll be slow throughout. Shadowbringers was slow until after you got out if the Crystarium then ran into a threat.
@@Violent_WolfenDescribe to me what makes understanding the culture, people and situation Norvrandt less foreign and more familiar than that of Tural. Just because someone says DT is the start of a brand new story doesn't make it more acceptable to be boring. Save for Wuk Lamat, all of the main cast were people from previous expansions that assumed you knew them; a lot of moments directly references plot points and entities from previous expansions (WoL saw a situation and had a dialogue option to say 'This reminds me of _____' at LEAST three times); one of the biggest moments in the game was a callback to Endwalker patch-MSQ where the dragons show up; the big unexplained mystery is yet more Ascian stuff. There's nothing to protect Dawntrail's exploration of a new continent and new story from travelling to Othard or Norvrandt. Nothing at all.
While I understand what you are saying. This example isn’t great. Shb was very much a part of the main line story. Not only was the first introduced in heavensward but emet was literally an ascian. The main villain with his goal being by extension their goal. The inciting incident of the expac was the scions being slowly abducted and our haste to save them was also motivated by the garleans military movements since we desperately needed the team united to face them. Nothing other than the geography was really a separate thing from the main story. By comparison tural shares the planet but none of the history or culture with anything else. Most of the people on the first are alternate versions of source characters. The turali are just different people. In the end I agree that it’s not an excuse. But much of what made Shb good was actually how deeply connected it was to the overarching tale despite how different it should have been.
@@ItsCassius Easy, Norvrandts culture and people can be understood by a single word "Desperate" the entire world is on the brink of collapse and when we come its immediately understood shit is fucked up beyond repair. Norvrandt isn't a world that needs saving it's a world that needs a stay of execution. Where as in DT we have two worlds, Tural the functional nation of cooperative tribes ruled over by a monarch who preaches tolerance and acceptance into their culture and conversely Alexandria a destroyed but still persisting nation that exists as a colonial entity and a stark representation of imperialism and its unsustainable nature (souls being resources they do not have an infinite supply of and thus must colonize and destroy other worlds) The simple ideas alone in DT are much more nuanced in displaying two kingdoms that functionally oppose each other simply on the idea that conquest is not a sustainable method of governance.
Since launch, I've said that a lot of Dawntrail MSQ felt like side quests. Good to hear they're thinking about that, it's not a bad thing to get to know new people but tribal quests exist for a reason. Most of the first half of Dawntrail felt like tribe quests, to me at least. For people that don't care, they don't have to do it, but for people that care a lot about this new world and new lore and stuff can delve into that lore on their own time.
I'll be honest, that's pretty much why I liked it. It felt like a new and better take on ARR, where you learn about a new land, new people, and a new set of history. Maybe that's just me but I genuinely enjoyed the more relaxed feel of 90-95, exactly because there wasn't a sword of damocles hanging over our heads like there was in Heavensward, Stormblood, Shadowbringers, or Endwaker, and we could just go on a journey and learn new things without a need for it to save the world.
@@Crouza I felt the same way. Like yeah it was slow, but there was this relaxed feeling that we truly were just learning about a new continent we were visiting. There wasn't a big overarching bad guy with a looming threat where every location was burning to the ground 24/7. Even going into the 2nd half, learning about Sphene and her people was really interesting for me. Idk, I ended up overall enjoying it. There was issues for sure but not enough to ruin the story or anything like that for me.
After finishing the MSQ I was reading some of the reviews from other people and someone said that the first half of Dawntrail felt like a really long Tribal Quest, and now I really can't unsee that xD
I'd heard that the first half of Dawntrail's MSQ was literally written by the people who did Endwalker's tribal quests. Yeah, you heard me. It feels like tribe quests because it was written by people who spent a couple years *writing* tribal quests. Yeah.
In my eyes, Yoshi p only saying about the pacing and nout about writing is, he didn't want to blame his team in public. I would do the same bcoz blaming one specific department could destroy the morale of the team.
The biggest issue facing FFXIV - it's starting to cater to its western audience and ruining its core identity. YoshiP and his team should have never given more than a second's thought to its sudden western player influx. Western players and game "journalists" tend to hyper-analyze games, expecting them all to be equal in quality story wise to best-selling novels. Eastern story-telling has always been values based, they should've stuck to that as that's what separates it from most of the hot messes we see from western AAA titles.
Considering one or two Western VAs are using the PR protection as an excuse to continue gaslighting the customers, it's possible we'll see some positive changes moving forward. We can only hope.
'we wanted all scions and also new characters'... thats such an amateur mistake... screentime is limited, thats how it is. and then, on top of that, they went and used most of the screentime on one single character saying the same things over and over again while barely getting any development
everything is clear in hindsight. DT took brand new strides that had potential. however they didnt see as many downsides as they should have, but they immediately saw it at launch. they didnt know how they wanted to continue this game and now they have a baseline of the players mindset to build off of
I can think of a few character traits and dialogue lines (as written, not worried about voice acting) that could have been given a touch up. The whole script is really rough for ff14 standards.
After thinking about it now, though, I think the reason why it took so long to punch something was because everything had already been "solved", for the worst. There was no meaningful conflict that required dungeoneering at all until the thing with lizard boi. The New World had been settled already, so there's nothing that you needed to use your machete on. No vines to cut, no map to follow. No trail to blaze on the road to El Dorado.
Wuk lamat has made me just want to become like estinean, becoming a wanderer, solving problems of an area and then moving on. I want to be an adventurer, with an adventures guild, where I can do bounties to rise through the ranks. I want to become a platinum, SSS teir adventurer that is a staple in manga. Either way, no new main characters like wuk lamat, the should all just be side characters.
Yeah. I don't want to "rise through the ranks." I've risen through the ranks many times already. No more "Warrior of Light goes to a new land and no one knows who he is, so he's just a newbie adventurer" stuff anymore. If I wanted to do that, I'd create a new character and just play FFXIV all over again.
@FolsomC no I'm more talking about a revamp of the current hunts. I think they should redo it so that it operates more like bazja duels or the critical engagements work. Make the content teired so that you can work through the levels of difficulty, and earn greater rewards. Even the regular fate system should be revamped, because what they have now sucks compared to bozja. It is pretty much just mindless killing, and doesn't make the shared fates system enjoyable at all. We already know what they are capable, it is stupid that they are putting such low effort as since we know what they are capable of.
"I'm on a 27" monitor and it is only one line" Bruh, you can be no 200" monitor and it is the same, since the site scales from your resolution, not the size of your panel.
My thought exactly. Every time I bring up criticisms about the current MSQ, i get met with some excuse like that. Oh it’s the beginning of a new story or you can’t expect it to be as exciting as Endwalker or oh but it’s world building or hey it’s our vacation. It’s not that it’s not as high of heights as Endwalker or that it’s world building…it’s that it’s not good. It didn’t really succeed in much of those categories anyways.
100% agreed. The whole script felt like a rough draft and for some reason no one talks about it. I keep getting the final story trial in my roulettes, and the more I have to hear Wuk Lamat and the boss's dialogue the angrier I get. it's like they didn't read what they wrote at all.
I don't think it's garbage tier. Solid B+ writing. Obviously if you were to compare it to something like Heavensward it's going to come up wanting, but it's not in any way a bad story.
@@MegaDarkness5000 Taste is hard to argue with. Oversimplifications of conflicts, Scions being pushef back to glorified secondary nodders with no agency and character or motivations. Not even the "holiday". Aside from Estinien maybe all of which was offscreened. And a multiple of other glaring issues like pacing and poor misic placement. Good characters just used wrong. While Im not apart of the Wuk Lamat hate crew. She got WAY too much screentime and dialogue compared to others. 4-5/10 for me.
Was really hoping after endwalker we would be traveling by ourselves. Estenien is going on the adventure we should be having. Would much rather travel alone while being introduced to new faces
Mike complains about how Estinien was utilized but I think he was the only Scion who was properly utilized in Dawntrail. Estinien is basically a vagabond now, going where he pleases and when. He's enjoying his freedom from being the Azure Dragoon of Ishgard now that he's freed from those responsibilities (and the world isn't ending). Dawntrail shows that he's present in the world and not tossed to the side and forgotten. He shows up where it's appropriate, then leaves. Estinien is not only doing what I wanted our WoL to be doing, he's also doing what I wanted all of the other Scions to be doing as well. Last expansion: "The Scions are disbanding and we're going our separate ways". This expansion; "We're getting the Scions back together". Krile should have been the only Scion adjacent character to come with us in Dawntrail. Instead of forcing the Scions into the story I would have preferred them to introduce a new set of characters like you said. I'm still upset that after the big revelation and his (sort of) redemption, Bakool Ja Ja didn't become a permanent member of our party. Same with Koana.
@@jaahman0098 did you not like the character or just don't like the idea of him joining our party? I was thinking he was going to join us and help Wuk Lumat become Dawnservant as part of his redemption arc. I do love how they ended up utilizing him though. Seeing him defend the city and everyone's reaction to it (including himself) was amazing.
@@SilentaryXIV I just didnt like his character. His redemption to me just didn’t feel earned or better yet felt like it was handled poorly with how fast it was. He showed no signs through the entire first half of the expansion that he was a good/okay guy. He yawned and was disrespectful to the current dawn servant. Talked a lot of crap and tried to kill wuk lumat. Threatened and tried to kill civilians during the test. Cheated and released a calamity that if we weren’t present would have destroyed the entire continent of tural. Mind you he wasn’t even there to help fight it. He did it just to get ahead of the competition. Then after he lost to wuk lumat we get his backstory and all of a sudden we should just ignore everything else out of sympathy. I just didn’t want anything to do with him. I didn’t forgive him and didn’t even think about him joining us. Him defending the city was cool I guess but like it’s the least he could do after how awful and terrible he was throughout the entirety of the first half. If the devs would have done better with his character i definitely would have felt differently but to me he was one of the characters that was handled poorly.
@jaahman0098 that's 100% fair. I still firmly believe Dawntrail is two expansion stories crammed into one. The pacing was soo strange. It spends too much time on some stuff, like the first two intro zones, but then flies through other bits, like Bakool Ja Ja's redemption.
Going to PC Gamer for the information is a risk in and of itself: You don't know what you're getting, but you're pretty darn sure you're getting scammed.
Rather than comparing to previous expansions' MSQ (which was definitely much better), along with other aspects that aren't MSQ related, the story by itself was just mid. Not only was there too much Wuk, which I personally didn't really like, some of the Scions just acted much differently from what they would. There's also some of them being with us when they should be in other places of the world, when it comes to the resolve of the previous story. At the same time there's also a lack of the scions that were there. Not to mention Krile was done dirty. I do still have hope for post expansion patches, as in every single previous expansion they never disappointed and were 10/10 imo. Sure a vacation is good and all that, but this story felt too frustrating to be a vacation. Would just have prefered to check on places in the world after its saving. Especially Garlemald. But at the same time I didn't mind this road, as the zones were pretty awesome, just story itself didn't meet the same quality.
I think it's too soon to check on Garlemald, it literally just got liberated pretty much. The only thing we did in between was handle the void portal and help Zero. I'd almost say that would be better done possibly later in the post 7.0 MSQ or possibly in another expansion altogether.
@@Noryll1327 Yeah, that's fair. Just saying it, because I think the story in that regard would have been done hopefully better than a whole new one. I did love the zones of this expansion, which makes me happy that they did go with this route, just a shame that the story didn't meet the same quality as all that other stuff.
"the Scions just acted much differently from what they would" This was my exact thoughts during the part where they all decided to "guard" the portal. It makes no sense that Ysh wouldn't want to come when she is personally invested in learning about shard travel. Its like the writers forgot that she promised Runar she would do anything to find a way to return to the first. 7 people "guarding" an empty room was just so goofy.
I also think checking on Garlemald or similar locales would have been too soon, but I do agree that most of the Scions were acting out of character and/or should not have been with us to begin with. Their reasons for being in Tural were very flimsy at best, especially the twins. I understand why Krile was with us, and I could have seen G'raha coming as well as Estinien, but Thancred/Urianger/Alphi/Alisaie/Y'shtola should have stayed in their respective places - that would have been in character for them to do. I would have preferred to be on Koana's team, too. He seemed way more interesting and less of a Shounen Anime Protagonist. We as the WoL could have taught him about how to be a people person, to relate to people's issues and to care for individual cultures, while nurturing his scientific ways for the benefit of individuals rather than Tural as a whole. Rather than the WoL just kind of doing nothing for Wuk Lamat except... idk. Inform her it's okay to have flaws and watch her do what the WoL has always done. I can see how being on Koana's team wouldn't actually solve any of DT's MSQ issues, though. It would just move them to another place. It just sounds much more compelling to me personally.
Y’shtola is the most out of character scion this expansion. She was handed a key to unlock other shards, one that the WoL has no idea how to use, and rather than take it to research how it works just hands it back to you. Sure ‘Shtola. I’ll totally figure this out with my busy adventuring schedule combined with lack if access to most of Sharylan’s knowledge. No problem. Actual Y’shtola would have yoinked that key off to her research before you could actually get a good look at it and been back 2 patches later with how it works and nabbing you to protect her as she explores. Probably Estinien too.
The Scions are the Fast Food of XIV at this point. Everyone likes eating it, but it is clear that taking a break from it is healthy in the long run. They should absolutely try letting go of the Scions for a few patches
My main complaint, or concern, with Dawntrail is our role in the story. Which may be linked to SqE's difficulties with character focus, such as you mentioned. For the first time in FF14 I felt like a side kick, the body guard, rather than the main protagonist. So far they made a good job making us feel (I've read others saying the same) like the main focus of the story. This time, on a couple of occasions some NPC said something along the way of "we couldn't have done this without you" which just rang hollow, leaving me with the feeling of "I didn't do a damn thing apart from following you around like a puppy and hit those you told me to". Sadge :(
Forget bodyguard; we were downgraded to a voiceless cheerleader that straw-manned everything said to and about WL. Even the gosh darn "..." (ellipses) response was "Oh, you're so stunned and honored that you have no words". If Job trainers were given the WL treatment, we'd never level up because it'd be "Oh you're perfect just the way you are. You go out there and tell that cactuar who's boss", with cactuar being the reality check as soon as it spurs its needles at you.
The biggest problem with Dawntrail is the MSQ treatment of Erenvale and Krile. Both characters stories were completed, it can't be changed or added too, the only way to fix this at this point is to go back to the drawing board, dissect the current MSQ and re-write certain parts within reason, do it in a way it opens the door for the characters to progress after the story end or even reach some form of reasonable conclusion throughout the journey for example when Krile asks about the earing and her grandfather remove certain scenes which the writers say "I could answer that, but I am not as Wuk hasn't had enough screentime yet". As for the Scions, clearly Tural is the site of the sundering, so why not just have the Scions leave Mor Dhoa and set up base in Tural, this would solve the City State control problem and help with the Realm Key story. As for the content with the Scions, what needs to happen is less time with the Twins and Raha and more time with Uri, Squirrellover25, Part Time Dragoon and I am blind but have 20-20 vision. Heck even throw our best bud Wheelchair Paladin and Lyse into the mix; we are a group, not just the Twins and Raha. We also need to give Wuk the Lyse treatment, she is a leader not a scion and she should now take a backseat to all future stories. I know people loved the Raha scene on the Gondola but watching the scene left me thinking "Did who ever wrote this play the story at all?", while it was a touching moment; Raha asking if the WOL had lost anyone was utterly 100% stupid, if anyone knew our story it was his, what has he been doing all this time? We lost our home, our people, minfila, our friend, Iceheart (Granted he wouldn't know), he even watched us beat the gods then they committing suicide. I get the dude misses his mom and dad but asking the WOL at this point of the story was poorly written.
Using this logic, characters like Estinien shouldn't have been there post Heavensward, as his story started and ended there, after Nidhogg's final defeat, realistically. Thancred's story realistically concluded in Shadowbringers after that fight with Ranjit. Urianger's realistically concluded in Endwalker when he finally accepted himself and later reconciled with Moenbryda's family. There are multiple character who's story arcs have "completed" but are still utilized. Minfilia/Ryne's story is the only story that concluded and they've stuck to that, only with minor appearances from her since.
I think a huge portion of the scions do need to be put on the back burner with occasional cameos. Though i've been sold that this is the twins PoV of the WoL adventures so it be nice to have them all the way threw future expacs
As capable as the twins are, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't biased to spending more time with them and shepherding them from place to place. I am not entirely happy that Alphinaud has taken a backseat in comparison to his sister, but I'll take both.
Yup, because knowing you have an uphill battle means you shouldn't give it your all, right? Man I love the devs in general but it really feels like they just got bored or gave up after 6.0
I knew people wouldn't like it. I enjoyed it. I actually didn't feel rushed. Even did side quests while doing MSQ, and unlocked all the aether currents during MSQ. Was nice. If you take the relaxed story in a relaxed way, it's a lot more enjoyable.
Wack LeBron was simply a boring and soggy discount Naruto, dattebayo, who had a terrible case "how many times do we need to learn this lesson, young man" syndrome.
Stormblood used the Scions the best out of any expansion. They're assisting where they're useful, not hogging a story they can't contribute to. Y'shtola getting sliced was exactly what needed to happen. She would have added nothing to a war story so they used her as a way to raise the stakes. Every Scion is doing something even if they're not on screen at all times.
I wouldn't put it past a game journalist to just copy and paste an article from others. Note the No Man's Sky subreddit troll. Not that I'm assuming that's what this guy actually did.
I've yet to finish DT, but I feel like the only scions that currently have story arc's that involve something I want to be involved in are Krile (the whole thing with the clover, golden city and stuff like that), and Y'shtola (getting back to the first). There's also an Arc with Zero an what's going on there and trying to restore the 13th in some way. Graha wanted to come on an adventure with us, and yeah, we got EW, but he's not been anywhere until late on in DT. IMO, having the twins join us to Tural initially instead of Graha was a mistake, and he would have been a good character to have alongside Wuk Lamat and her character development. Krile and Graha, and then pull Y'shtola over once we get a sense of another shard because that loops in her story Arc. They had an impossible job though. Anything they did after EW was going to struggle. But, I think they made things harder for themselves than they needed to be. Also, fix the damn audio with Y'shtola's voiced lines, just redo them and get them right. Estinien coming to Tural rather than Meracydia doesn't make sense either. He's got a dragon fixation, after EW, that's absolutely where he'd go first. I don't mind WL, but she also doesn't sparkle for me either. Also, there have been numerous bits in the story where I've been wanting to scream at my character to move and bloody do something about what is happening right now. That frustrated me, a lot!
I'll say it AGAIN for all the thickheaded Cope Lamats reading: New arc does not mean it must be BAD. Slow? Sure fine, understandable. Different tone/theme/world/colors/characters? THAT'S GREAT. But NONE of that excuses it for how BAD this MSQ was. Yoshi P acknowledging the division is good. Yoshi P saying yeh I predicted it but wanted to blindtest paying customers anyway trollface xdd? THAT'S BAD.
"We knew it wouldn't be received entirely favorably so we didn't take the time to write a second draft and just hoped new mechanics would carry the game's rating." -the director/producer in charge of the MMO that carries all of square enix primarily on the basis of its story.
@@PatriotArro SE's got more than just FF going on... and people play FF14 regardless of the story state. The battle content and everything else around it is literally the best its been in years. Like a one time mid story is not going to ruin this game with millions of players dude.
@Noryll1327 i never said it would ruin the game. But I also won't excuse neglecting the writing with good gameplay. It's not their fault I feel that way, it's mine. I have standards.
@@Noryll1327Man, people only liked ffxiv, not because of the combat and because of the fucking story. If this is garbage, millions of players will go away, ffxiv is not world of warcraft my dear,
I think that's what made Shadowbringers interesting, the scions had quite some time for themselves while they were away, they came back with new jobs, new experiences, they had plenty of news to tell us and tell each others. Although it's not realistic to have them come around each new expansion with new wisdom to share, having one out for an expansion, then back the next with new stuff to tell would nicely add a fresh new twist.
Y’Shtola is gone for most of Stormblood because she was gravely injured by Zenos. If you’re going to use SB as criticism, perhaps know your material before saying stuff c:
I must be weird, because nobody even mentions the biggest reason I don't like this expansion when talking about its issues. I cannot stand that Solution 9 and Alexandria as a whole are treated as a friendly faction. They eat souls for fuck's sake. It would be like if Eulmore knew what meol was the entire time, and keeps eating it even after the end of 5.0, and then the raid was an arena in Eulmore where people ate meol to turn themselves into different super powered sin eaters. It's incredibly disgusting to me and it makes me want to not even play. My account is currently inactive for the first time since I started playing almost three years ago.
I hate that he goes on about that they wanted you to spend time in tural toget to know this new area and culture, then throws us into that final half where by the end we don't even know what shard it is and he goes "Oh yeah its the 9th because FF9 lol" I expected better from this man.
It bothers me so much that after the first half is over, the first three zones are never visited or utilized again. They might as well not exist. It's such a drastic change from previous expansions.
So all in all for me, its a new start for FFXIV story, and they tried to like test fans, and they a bit missed with it, so they now know what to do, and next expansion have to be back to back banger, if thats the case, fully understandable
Yoshi-P was working on FF16, the devs said there's going to be a vacation, yeah i can see they had one while Yoshi was working on ff16. I played ff14 since 1.0 and the story has never been in a worst state. Wuk and the English voice actor makes me want to skip the story and i know many that did, the voice actor needs to be fired as well they're embarrassing for the game with their stupid takes. It needs the 1.0 treatment but it wont get it and as the years go by this expansion will be the stop gap for a lot of players, like Stormblood was but this is worse. I've barely been playing and the only reason i'm still subbed is because of my house. I feel like quitting for the first time, i'm not interested in the patches, i'm already waiting for the next expansion so i can forget this one.
People like you are actually insane. Calling for a 1.0 remake of the game again and denouncing the entire game because it had 1 mid MSQ, even though the actual battle content and everything around it has been some of the best we've gotten in years. If this is what makes you stop the game entirely and throw a fit, I feel bad for you.
I agree with ricky; the PR defending the EN VA is certainly not helping the dynamic of the game, and the VA attacking others for not liking how poorly it was handled is even worse because they're still on-board. I lost my literal spark for the game after such an amazing soul-searching journey, only to be greeted with one of the worst plots in Final Fantasy history (that includes any works in the Tactics games as well).
Preach why are you not using an add blocker? Also I want my scions back. I would love no new main characters and another romp with the Scions. This MSQ was worse than Stormblood. Give me back my friends, Yoshi-p.
I got to say, I really hate the excuse that it was because well endwalker was the climax! No, it was just because dawntrail SUCKED, period. It had nothing to do with endwalker, I had no expectations of a universe ending fight (that happened anyway), still sucked btw. Rip off of shadowbringers, even wuk lamat breaking in was stolen from gaia busting in during the shiva e8 raid. Alaxandria was a similar presentation of Dead End dungeon (endwalker). Childish writing, ridiculous power growth for 0 reason, constant holes in the writing/story. Wuk lamat did not feel like she earned any of the victories she got. Many trials felt like they either fell into her lap by the grace of the writer, or it was earned by us/other characters. I plan on pretty much skipping and just reading a summery from now on if wuk lamat is going to be the main focus.
12:00 - This would be very interesting. Hard to pull off well. You'd need a villain that was taking advantage of the fact you can only be in once place at a time or situations where you weren't able to operate openly for a compelling reason, etc. Having Azem's Crystal makes things odd.
I for one didn't compare Dawntrail to Shadowbringers or Endwalker, I understood that it's the beginning of a brand new story, with new characters and possibly a whole new direction (which is what they were aiming for) But even through all of that just judging the story (ies) on it's own it was still not very well executed. I think it would be unfair to try and compare this expansion to ShB or EW imo.
yea i see it as a ARR/Stormblood kinda deal. I am not that butthurt about DT as others but it was kinda feeling like filler at parts. But i am excited for post patches cause if it is like stormblood it will be awesome
@@AbigatorM yea I’m putting hope that the patches will do the heavy lifting the MSQ fumbled. So as it stands right now I can understand how people would be upset at the state of the story before patches.
@@hadesgoncalves983 a lot of the “story” could have honestly been side quest stuff like the article mentioned. Even more so was that because of the filler side quest stuff that made it into the MSQ, we missed a lot of character building and “setting the scene” dialogue that would have perhaps fixed the pacing.
it's pretty fair to compare it to ARR or StB imo, since those are also expansions very heavy on setup and worldbuilding. and in that arena, it's still dead last for me, and it isn't close.
See? It's about s personal perception. And how invested you are in the story. If you don't you'll have a bad time. Doesn't make your experience universal of course. I have gripes with the story here and there for example but that wasn't it. And I like Wuk Lamat on top of that and thought she quickly progressed as a character as if our team was her personal therapist lol
As for me, I wanted to dive deeper into the story of Krile's parents. I got sad when I knew they were dead. It has big implications since they hold the history of the Milallafels. But I guess it will be addressed in the coming expansions. Still, I would have love for them to have more background scenes.
Rotating cast is how Destiny does it too and its less egregious than WoW, in that theres enough shit going down in the Destiny universe that it makes sense that not everyone can make it to each story. But it's still kind of awkward. But that does seem to be the best way to handle massive casts.
I agree most with Krile and Erenville not getting enough screen time. Mostly, because they hyped up these 2 as being super eager to come with you as if they would be made really important to the story later, and it never really happens. Wuk stays centre at ALL times and the whole team behind her are silently providing fall support. It makes the journey feel empty and the end threat feel more goofy than seriously world ending. ALSO! Why is the main threat so badly world ending?! We dont need to 1up Meteon right off the bat imo.
Gonna dump an idea here in what i'm hoping is the kind of direction we take with the MSQ, Now we have the key we could somehow activate it and get taken to a new world on our own once we arrive the WOL is captured/enslaved on said world and forced to fight for their freedom in a ancient greek/rome type Colosseum setting this could take place over a few patches or even half an expac. Now due to how iffy time is when you travel worlds when we get back a couple or even a few years could have passed in the source this would give them chance to build up regions maybe finish some off the more mundane story's off screen and more develop while we are away conveyed through cutscenes etc. Obviously a lot of details to fill in but would like to see this kind of structure give the scions a little break and have some new scenarios and development for us (wol) but just a random thought tbh
The story needed better pretext and a better reason other then wuk lamat needs help x 100 and they blew that opportunity in the twink texas zone it gave that vibe of "ah yes the promised solo adventure" an excellent opportunity to introduce a fresh cast of characters to set up for the next expansion- away from the scions. Instead we got a dtory that goes off the rails instantly.
Wuk lumut should have been put on the sidelines after lvl 75 msq. Focus should have been on Krile from that point onwards. She should have been the one who interacted with Sphene.
Even G'raha would have been well-suited to deal with Sphene, considering his position back on the First. WL wasn't even nearly close enough to be a leader that could be on-par with Sphene.
While the response to the pacing wasn't completely wrong, I felt that overall, Yoshi-P was so off the mark. The pacing wouldn't have felt as bad if the actual dialogues would have been interesting. And I feel like he didn't get the issue with Wuk Lamat at all. Making her more confident would have made her even more of a Mary Sue. The problem was the lack of character development. The story never really called her out when it was needed, instead we just stood there and nodded to all of her bs. This interview was so frustrating to read.
i think the answer is just give the scions more lines i wouldnt want an entire expac without them they're kinda the only thing in the current story i like atm
PCgamer is dying thats why there is so many Ads, the owner of PCgamer is out there defending Concorde, one of the biggest flops in gaming history probably. Hes desperate for clicks, i guess. It's obnoxious and i can't blame people for using adblock, it feels like the correct and safe way to use the internet.
Rotate the scions it's a good idea. Getting rid of them for a while too. But in here is just WL all the time. It's hard to have a brand new character all the time next to you. It feel like that's the main guy, like it happened with Lyse before, and not us. Something fail when most of the people think the best part of the story is when WL is not longer with you for a while, lol.
Heavensward's main story revolved around only Alphinaud (and Tataru to a lesser extent) being the only Scion with us, and while I have my issues with that story in reflection, I think it was much stronger for it to make Alphinaud actually likable through concentrated character growth and rebuttals (like Estinian calling him out for using WoL as a weapon with no consideration of safety during Ravana) compared to his previous know-it-all self.
0:20 - That reminded me of the one forum and question: "how do i create fake close cross on my ad banner, that will instead take you to another website?" 3 adds between two lines of text. THat is why nobody cares about game journalists (and ofc their stupidity on twitter) and as for FF14... i just see the picture of WukLamat and i don't even to start up my FF14 game.
Y'shtola had been almost cleaved in half by Zenos. There was a good reason why she wasnt there in SB - personally, I didnt miss her... I dont mind if the Scions arent present - but if we have these scenarios like "the world is ending - again" then I want them to be there. Because it would make sense. They are some of the brightest minds the world has and they have always had a vested interest in keeping the world existing in a livable state. So, yeah, get them, asap. When we fought in the Void, it made no sense whatsoever not to have the entire Scion cast with us. And now again, with this story where another Shard (!!!) is involved, everyone should be there. I mean, yeah, they were, but in the weirdest fashion ever: I'm not a fan of Y'shtola, the least she is involved the better, but there was no reason, no chance in hell, that she would forgo the opportunity to enter that dome with us. - So yeah, make use of the Scions when its convincing for the story, but otherwise let them do their own thing. As you said they would. I have no problems having my character go on a solo adventure for a change...
I've always been fine with Y'shtola being taken out at the beginning of Stb, and I saw good story reasons for doing it. It was great for establishing how much of a threat Zenos was, and since a lot of the story hinges on Lyse and Hien's coming of age struggles, having someone as mature and competent as Y'shtola around would make it difficult hit those beats.
Am I the only one seeing a big red flag with the executive producer of the game saying he knew there would be mixed receptions? If you knew, how about you do something to fix it? NONE of the problems have anything to do with DT being a "new story". All the problems are about execution. Bad pacing, bad writing, bad voice acting, all of this could've been noticed and adressed before release.
He literally said why he expected it to be mixed. He didn't know it would have the issues it had, he meant it in relation to following up the hype of ShB and EW.
imo CS pacing is generally bad, not just this expansion. The fade up, npc's walk on screen, stop, then dialogue is really unengaging, not emersive at all. Because of this, i barely watch cs's and usually catch up on an edited youtube video instead.
I think they should bench HALF the scions, and bring only 3-4 with us for the next expac. Yshtola and Graha are obvious picks, not just because of popularity but also plot relevance to a likely reflection-centered story, and also being two scions in most need of character progression. Yshtola has never had an expac where she was heavily featured, ShB is the closest but even then, no more than any other scion. Graha has been waiting 2 expacs for a "proper" adventure with us; not sure how nothing so far has fulfilled his criteria, but he hasnt had much story focus since arriving in the Source so I'd say he's due a turn. This goes for Thancred as well, and this set of three would be ideal for a possible pit stop in the First, as they have the strongest ties there. Krile can maybe be thrown in too, but this party of three can fulfill any duty support requirements etc so I think they make the most sense
While I didn't completely hate this expansion, I definitely had a far better experience later in the MSQ. The majority of my enjoyment of it is definitely carried by the Solution 9 Arcs. I understand the character building they had to do for Wuk Lamat, but it definitely didn't feel very smoothly executed for me. I don;t really mind her much as a character, but I did tire of her as we got later into the quest line. I haven't started the raids yet but I've heard mixed feelings about those too since they don't seem to have any story relevance this time and are a full on side quest. We will see what the endgame holds for me.
For the love of god they need to make walk and verbally talk info dumps. like have some one follow you and fight (like a chocobo) while you kill 10 jub jub birds, but the whole time they relay to you plot dump, verbally so you can focus on fighting. it would go way faster, be more fun, and draw people into actually liking the npcs. also 900 percent less vomiting. also also, use your best voices for the most important characters.
I love my FFXIV character and the game itself but lately i've found myself playing Lotro instead.. I'll be back to FFXIV sometime but it doesnt feel like it's pulling me in yet. I haven't played any of Dawntrail yet.
Im playing Everquest and WoW again more than FF. I log in every 30 days to turn the lights on my houses and get sad at the memories I had with friends while we enjoyed playing the game. But now it seems people just aren't around anymore. They all left and the only people around are weird terminally online venue hoppers that have nasty mods. And that makes the game very dark to me.
Dawntrail had the bones of a great expansion. I wish the pacing and voice direction were tighter, but I loved Koana, I loved Gulool Ja Ja, I loved Bakool Ja Ja, the music was amazing and the group content is S-tier. Even Wuk Lamat had her moments. I had no problem with the VA in the death scene (I had the same issues with the scene itself as Mike did, but not the VA), and there's no way in hell she should have been in the fight scene with Sphene at the end. When Gaia did it, the whole thing made sense. She was trying to save Ryne, who was losing control. We were shutting down Sphene, there was no saving her and no reason for Wuk to be there. Remove her from that fight and the ending improves a hundred fold.
I want the WoL and the Scions. Like a team. They are tied together through all the adventures they have been on and we are so invested in them at this point. That's my humble opinion.
Wuk Lamat's problem isn't a lack of *confidence*, it's a lack of *competence* and *history.* We have no reason to like her or care about her, and we certainly have no reason to defer to her on anything. The writers simply dropped her into our laps and told us that she was our very important friend. She's never done anything for us, or anyone we know or care about, or really for anyone we *don't* know. She's supposedly well-liked by a portion of "her" people, but no one likes her well enough to help her on her journey. She comes across as a self-insert by the writer(s) who want us to like them vicariously through Wuk Lamat, and who think that her hapless behavior will make her likeable.
That really rubbed me the wrong way in the 6.55 patch MSQ, and gave me a very bad feeling about DT before it had even begun. It felt so wrong to me for Wuk to just saunter up out of nowhere and say: "Hey! You're strong! You're going to help me in an unknown, foreign political affair because you just LOVE new things and adventure! *Right?*" with no good reason given for why I should give any shits, at the very last moment before it all happens. Every other expac spent two or three .X patches establishing a logical connection from one expac's story arc to the next, and I can't fathom why they wouldn't do so for DT, especially for DT. I can't help but look back at the 6.X MSQ with Golbez and the archfiends as a wasted filler arc now when the writers should have been using that time to start establishing Tural and DT as a whole, especially since it's a brand new horizon that we NEEDED additional context on to care about.
Wuk's definitely got a problem with her weird lack of competence, but I've told my friends that I can excuse really clumsy attempts to dump lore. Movies do it all the time too. I hate that there are so many opportunities for nuance and for Wuk Lamat to grow as a person, not just in confidence, and instead her every decision is backed up by sheer luck and a cheer squad that by all rights should have had serious concerns. Alphinaud learned with the Crystal Braves that optimism and happiness doesn't make for a competent leader.
She is clearly the writers best friend, and she just came off as a try hard WoL fanboy who desperately wants to be our friend and adventuring partner. She gave me Buddy vibes from the Incredibles.
It doesn't help that the EN VA is the only one gaslighting people for not liking WL, the song "Smile", or DT at all where the character debuted. Cut the losses with a VA that can't help but involve politics into the mix or their own ego and find a different one, or cut WL out of voice-line scenes in the future. DT had a lot of voiceless scenes, so they've proven it's possible.
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"Guys, can you let us make some money and turn off your ad blocker?"
*The site without ad blockers:*
It's always hilarious when these content creators turn off ad blockers when they stream and share their screeen
Twitch: 1/7 ads
Companies have no respect for the content in their websites
My ad block fails me plenty times these days.
oh god...specially on mobile, was reading some wiki and adds literally whole mobile screen.... and content is just small box... I would gladly turnoff addblocks if they put on reasonable places...
"Are you really putting one line of text between three ads?"
First time reading PC gamer?
I use an adblocker, and this is so much worse than I imagined it would be
Kotaku is awful too
@@normalmighty Yeah, I use an adblocker as well, so it just reinforces why I use one.
The fact they revealed Solution Nine so early during the fanfests would seem to backup the idea that they had concerns about story reception. The only thing that kept me slogging through the MSQ was looking forward to the reveal of the Solution Nine story
My theory is that they dont want to give instant whiplash of the theme so they said fk it and reveal solution 9, i mean just look at the expac theme from tropical stuff then suddenly sci fi cyberpunk city wtf LOL 😂😂😂
Square is milking the game since Stormblood.
They put at little effort as possible into it and why shouldn't they? The found easy replacement with stupid WoW players they can sell their markteting lies to.
Us old FF14 players, who didn't start eight years later alwas knew that Square is now selling al those lies via social media clowns to you but of course you didn't listen.
Game is shit like that since YEARS.
You just fell for a marketing illusion they sold to you.
@@miriamweller812 you should put more effort in a troll post lol
I didn’t see it in the fanfests lol. It wasn’t the plot that was bad, honestly, it was that the characters all start out one dimensional. They get better as time goes on though
Its funny for me was the opposite. I knew Solution 9 would come and I dreaded for the moment where they try to implement it
Rotating the scions is EXACTLY what I wanted from DT, I was really excited when Thancred and Urianger were opposing us and it would have been so cool to fight them as bosses occasionally. I think that friendly, adversarial vibe would have REALLY fit the "vacation" part of DT. Characters that you know, but are taking on a totally different roles than what we're used to.
Thancred, Urianger and Koana becoming an end dungeon triple-boss like in Tower of Zot would have made me SO excited. Imagine having to deal with a tank/healer/DPS trio as a boss battle.
That WOULD be cool but the problem is the majority of the playerbase is soft and doesn't want to "fight our friends, that's mean". No sense of growth or challenge, no friendly sparring, no wanting to see how far your boys have come.
@@KyonV13 That makes no sense since we do friendly sparring with Gulool JaJa in the same expansion, not to mention Sadu in Stormblood, Hoary Boulder in ARR, etc...
The whole "Its about going to a new continent and meeting new cultures of course its slow!" is so funny because THATS EVERY SINGLE EXPANSION
I mean yeah but every expansion also had a foundation set from everything that came before it, dawntrail is a fresh start where nothing that weve done and known from the previous story sets up this one
Theres no getting our blessing back, no worrying about the garlean empire and no ascian shenanigans to investigate the realm or the scions was not in danger etc etc, which other expansions had as a backing to their story in some shape or form.
Its as much of a fresh start as a realm reborn was , slowly being introduced to a new land just the tutorial level stuff is being pushed through wuk lamat instead of us. Not literally but you get the point.
every other expansion had hooks since ARR.
building relations with Ishgard lead to HW
both stormblood relations have refugees settling in la noscea
ShB is basically a conclusion to the Ascians of ARR
endwalker focuses heavily on the garlean empire
not trying to defend DT since I'm not playing it but I saw how disappointing it was going to be from the endwalker post msq
Hell, ShB was us going to a whole ass different shard. EVERYTHING there was entirely new to us, save for the Crystal Tower, yet that expansion didn't have anywhere near the same amount of issues this one did.
@@TheBunfather it had the entire crystal tower, the scions being divided, the emet selchs appearance. The story of whats happening in the source because we had to deal with black rose, Ardberts re appearance
Minfillias re appearance
Whatever the hell Zenos was doing since he was getting his body back
Shadow bringers had the biggest amount of pay off despite it also being a new land, it had a ton of familiar elements to also go along with it.
All that kind of shit was all resolved by the time we get to dawn trail, with the most interesting thing it had set up was the whole scions having to fight each other, which didnt go anywhere.
@@sgr_sean So does Dawntrail?? You can't just skip to it. Its built on the foundations of everything before it still, especially towards its end. If you just jumped in raw you'd be hopelessly lost when they start rambling about shards, wondering who half these characters are, what the deal with Krile is, whats a primal? Whats aether? It doesn't explain any of these things its still very much a sequel. Theres a reason new players aren't just thrown into Dawntrail when they start now.
I would really love to see our WoL to just be on his own for a while rather than be dragged along by familiar faces we've known for a long time.
I'm tired of travelling with the twins, tbh 😂 (I love them both, but still...)
We basically get that in Shadowbringers. We get transported to an unknown alien world, purple trees and a travelling merchant greeting you with a bottle of alcohol. "Yeah head on over there if you are lost." And we meet our first new character of many. Hey the scions are not here you'll need to find them again pick a region to start and explore!
I got tired being dragged along with Wuk Lamat and we technically only knew that character for a collective month.
I'd rather see familiar faces sparingly than be stuck with THAT 'new face' ever again.
Yeah especially for those that have created back stories for their mains. I know RP realms have a stigma but I've never been a big fan of Generic Hero No. 959197879 whose only real goal is getting gear and loot. My own main for example is mirrored a lot like Kratos in God of War. She's a staunch veteran whose cloaked in guilt because of her past and seeks redemption. Her own personal quest would be epic, not merely stopping another world ending threat via certain NPC's guiding by the nose but perhaps something along the lines of something similar to the Ishgard Restoration where in both aspects you can help rebuild certain areas and maybe clear out enemies the same way. My main took the Ishgard Restoration as a means for her to work up to forgiveness and redemption for things she had done in the past. Has to be blanket though covering both crafting and PVE content. Not everyone is an omnicrafter like myself.😁
His take on Wuk Lamat worried the hell out of me. "The problem was, she wasn't confident enough." No... No, the problem was she was ALWAYS THERE.
At the halfway point, I started skipping any cutscene she was in.
@@JustinStrife It's hilarious to me that skipping Wuk Lamat's dialogue doesn't actually affect one's ability to understand the story. In almost the entire expansion, she never said anything important--her dialogue was never necessary to understand a scene, and you could literally guess what she was going to say anyway. "I will become Dawnservant --> I will protect my people --> Sphene! Listen!" That's it, aside from some comic relief that got old in the first two hours of the expansion.
when she busted into my trial to Talk no Jutsu, I literally said aloud, "WTF are you doing here?"
@@FolsomC LOVE AND PEESEEEE
That was her whole dialogue. How anyone thinks she had any character growth is beyond me.
@@JustinStrife they messed up by not doing what Mike had been saying the entire expansion. Wuk Lumat needed to get "humbled". I liked that she was a love and peace will always win character because it shows just how naïve she is to how the world really works. The issue is that not once is she ever proven wrong. Her love and peace mentality DOES win the day. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. This is why I find it hard to disagree with the notion that Dawntrail is a children's Saturday morning cartoon. Wuk Lumat desperately needed to be knocked down a few pegs. She needed to be shown how awful the world (and its people) can really be.
Just compare the Alphinaud/Alisaie making peace with the Garleans with Wuk Lumat making peace with the Mamool Ja. One was a struggle bathed in blood that barely managed to happen at all (and is barely holding together from what I can tell). The other happened because: "We all live here so lets be friends, okay?" "Okay!"
The problem was not that the Scions were in the story on top of Wuk Lamat.
The issue is that the Scions were not used in the story in a way at times that would make sense. It's true that our WoL and Scions took a supportive role and let Wuk Lamat and Koana grow as characters. But our WoL and Scions could still have had a more involved presense with them. Help guide them and be the emotional support etc.
Dawtrails best moments were when the Scions had some of that focus: Thancred and Urianger talking to Koana privately, Alisae being briefly concerned toward our WoL, the boat moment with Kraha, Krile and Erenville having their own moments in the last map. Those moments stood out. We only needed a few more of those moments to show why everyone was there.
Also our chosen dialogue options at times should have been better. Having options that are the same thing and same tone in a sense but worded a bit differently are just useless to have. If you give us a option for dialogue, then make those options actually different. We all know that these only change the next 1-3 dialogue bubbles but it still matters to keep our WoL have a consistent way of acting. Be it helpfull, neutral or a jerk etc.
Wuk Lamat almost had a few great moments too with our WoL. But I think those ended too fast. They did not get deep / personal enough as Wuk Lamat usually turned back to the "I am fine" brave face mode. She as a character almost got those vulnerable character moments at times but those were pulled away from us before they truly could form properly. As a result her character lacked that personal feel towards us and depth in general. Wuk Lamat also had an issue with the voice acting as a lot of the delivery was on a similar flat tone. Very limited vocal range did not help when the dialogue is "I will beat you", "I will be the dawnservant", "I have come to understand others" etc. in and out of combat. Those lines sound like Naruto or many other typical hero character that go the route of "the power of friendship" but lacking emotions and body states like distress and short of breath due to heavy combat.
Also the antagonist characters did not have enough moments about themselves. Bakool Ja Ja was a jerk and an idiot until certain reveals where his character takes a turn. This took way too long to establish. For example the writing felt annoyingly simple in one of the combat encounters as we do not have any real idea why he acts the way that he does. Later on the player understands this but that "poor writing" feel was already felt.
Zoraal Ja also suffers on this as his behaviour is properly explained at a very late moment of his story. Which is insane as there was no proper indication prior to it that would have giving us any idea of it. Reasons for his behaviour would have been way better if they revolved around his actual position in the Landsguard. This would have been a way more reasonable direction to built his mindset.
Y'shtola "disappeared" in SB because she got GOT by Zenos early on. I'll never forget that scene where he breaks through her barrier.
Yeah not sure how Preach could forget that. Her absence was very well warranted.
The problem with a character like WL is you HAVE to like her for the story to work. She's way too big a part of things, and has way too much screen time for people to be mixed on how they feel about her and still enjoy the expansion story. This whole story felt a lot like a DM who forgot they had D&D this week, and didn't really prepare anything. So they came up with one idea, beat it to death, and dragged things out until it was time for them to get out of there.
That was the case with every previous expansion though. It ain’t a new issue.
The problem is her performance but also her character just doesn’t seem like a leader. Remember Hien? Remember Aymeric? Both of those guys were instantly endearing. Wuk Lamat did not feel good enough to be a leader and her growth didn’t feel natural
I started out feeling neutral but optimistic towards her character, but ended up sick of her flat delivery and empty saccharine platitudes by the end. Sphene didn't need or deserve any sympathy, least of all from someone as emotionally undeveloped as Wuk.
@@Adu767 tbh I have more issues with how awful of a character Sphene was than I do with Wuk Lamat. I am used to being really invested in the antagonists in this game- Sphene and Zoraal Ja are the worst two major MSQ villains by far imo.
@@Keira_Blackstone I could give or take Zoraal Ja. As far as I'm concerned, he was just undercooked as a villain. With Sphene, I was almost annoyed with her as I was with Wuk Lamat. For all her repeated lamentation over how ineffectual she was over procuring resources needed to keep her citizens and their lifestyle going, it was all I could do to stop myself for screaming at the screen that she should step down as leader if she felt that way. All I could think was, "Enough, already!"
I know this will probably never happen, but give me the B team scions. Hoary Boulder and so on. They've been rocking with us all this time, let's give them a moment to shine. Also, I think the best (imo) would be to give the "normal" scions a rest. People can grow tired of certain characters after a while, so maybe the WoL going off on their own completely for a few patches might be good for the story. They could even mirror it (not sure if that's the right phrasing) to the start of our ARR journey.
No thanks, that sounds even more boring than Wuk Lamat. If you give me an expansion with Hoary Boulder being the MC and calling him ''Hoary'' or ''Mr. Boulder'', that's when I will truly accept that the FF writers have ran out of fuel.
@@Zindril Fair enough, but who's to say they can't make an odd character like Hoary great? I certainly didn't care who lyse was at first. Thancred to me was just a giant shill and he grew on me. On the flip side I don't care one bit about hearchfant though. So who can say, they could turn the B team into legends in the lore, give it a chance bud! (It'll never happen).
I posted this on other videos too. My problem is that he didn't address the main issue. Which is dialogue writing. Dialogue quality is considerably worse than Ishikawa's in ShB and EW. I hope they're aware of that issue and I'm glad at least he acknowledges the pacing and too much Wuk Lamat. (Though the main issue with her is dialogue writing & execution. Not her being unsure & how she develops as he seems to think) DT's story is great in concept, the execution is what the issue is. Yoshida seems to think it's because EW was a climax but it's not. It's that the execution of DT's great story concept wasn't good. Last zone hit the feels, but it could've hit even more if it was all executed properly. And that's coming from me, someone who actually liked DT quite a bit, because of last two zones.
Could also be the case where he doesn't want to clearly flame the writers for the sub-par work, so is giving more bland answers to issues in the msq. But that's an idea.
And the last two areas, while being great, suffer from the same issues as the rest. The potential in those two areas was so great and yet is treated like a kids show anyway, in terms of most of the resolutions that happen there.
I’m not surprised, but I was afraid this would happen. They will focus on the presumption, “fans don’t like the weak first act of our new story” instead of addressing the structural issues with the development process.
Because the dialogue are fine and mostly consistent with previous expansions in JP. Maybe a bit of ARR bloat here and there, but that's about it.
The story isn't even good in concept.
@@geek593Nah disagree, i think a lot of execution problems could have been fixed if we get to see more Zoral ja motivations, Bakool ja ja actually releasing valigar and fight him instead of just pus*y out to let us fight, let Wuk work with Bakool/Zoraal ja so we can see their conflicting ideals clash, more Krile stuff, actually meeting Erenville's mom early in shaolaani/ysaalani then the whole heritage found thing happen, let us fight through Tural till we only see Zoraal land killing blow instead of us standing there doing nothing, etc.
Theres probably more i missed but personally i liked the 2nd part especially otis and alexandria stuff but again a lot of exectuion problems
I really appreciate that Yoshi-p is willing to take the ACTUAL criticisms of the game head-on, rather than never talking about it, or doing the media-trained thing of talking around the actual issues by referencing marginal things that the players don't really see as the main problem. It's very promising that he seems to acutely understand the story's failings already.
Your fear in these moments is that the devs will be too proud/stubborn or insulated to take on board and be thoughtful about what the community is actually saying. Blizzard was like that for a looooong time.
Considering he took the brunt of FF14's original failure, it's good that he's still prepared for the issues. I, personally, didn't mind Dawntrail but I do think people were incredibly harsh. That isn't to say it didn't have its problems because it DOES, but this is just the first patch. I do think they're cooking on something and I'm happy the devs are aware folks are 'eh' about it.
Well, I expected him to shrug off the criticism as "trolling" like he did with FF16.
@@lothar3073 To be fair, FF16 is an amazing game and is far too criticized. It's my GOTY 2023.
@@ignightroad Oh thank you for this post! I was wondering if I was the only one who thought this way. It's just the beginning. They just need time to get into the groove of a new story =)
Ppl whonhated 16 are mas the game is different from the old ff 7 amd 10 @@OfficialMidnightRuby
All they really had to do was introducing us (Warrior of Light) as role model and mentor for WL (who starts weak and with troubled personality) and make sure that WL is appreciating us the longer we travel with her and she is developing her character taking example of our actions and that she is the one who SEEKS US to guide her and help her making decisions and that we are the ones that temper her rush actions and that in the end WE ARE THE ONES who saves her, correct her mistakes, rescue her from rush decisions she makes, not other way around (becasue it doesn't make sense... we are so OP after Endwalker that it's just riddiculous we would ever need WL help). And the end should be that WL became a better person, leader and friend becasue she got a role model of famous Warrior of Light who is well-respected in realms as Hero.
Instead we got a role of side kick to WL (whos nobody to us really), running her errands and having to deal with her annoying personality, solving her problems and in the end - she came to HELPS US? Like, bitch, I 1v1 freaking Zenos in epic duel among a fucking stars. A dude who wouldn't even look into WL direction, becasue he only wanted to fight strongest being, which was I. But nah, I need WL to help me fight some mad local chick after I fought galactic being that destroyed whole civilizations....
Whoever wrote all of that should get fired.
I completely agree; we needed to take on a mentor role. Instead we were a cheerleader that didn't say a single critical thing against Wuk Lamat, and in the end, she stole our LB3.
If you think the western audience did not take well Dawntrail and Wuk lamat, wait until you learn how bad the reception is in the east.
I’ve only seen feedback on the West. How was it in the East?
@TacoLex Wuk Lamat didn't even make the top 10 popularity poll in Japan. A raid boss that was just put in a week before the poll is made the top 10.
An expansion where the WoL is whisked off to some random shard hampered in their strength and out of contact with their allies the entire time. That would be a great expansion meeting new people and as an unknown just stepping up despite the odds to save the land and find a way back home in the end.
Having the WoL depowered and alone would be an interesting plot beat, at the very least it would be a reset from the highs
Sounds a lot like shadowbringers to me. Minus the scions
@@Colaschnittchen Pretty much. There isn't much reason why the Scions couldn't simply follow if we went to say Meracydia, and not likely anything about being in Mercydia that I could see nerfing our power.
Being forced to a different shard in an incomplete form seems the best way to handle both those problems.
@@Asin24 could also fabricate 2 problems to keep them busy somewhere else. The only scion I really want with us currently would be estenien
@@Colaschnittchen The only issue with that is I'd say it would turn into a 'splitting the team' situation unless its specifically a situation only the WoL can handle with no reason for any of them to join us.
Estenien would be rather interesting in a way in a siutation where both get somehow nerfed down having to deal with a problem together.
14:05 Didn't Y'sthola disappear in stormblood because she got bodied by Zenos?
Yeah, she did, but she got back a few quests later, it wasn't as long as Lyse. We knew that Lyse was going to return at some point, due to the amount of time we spent with her, but that's 3 expansions later long.
Someone hasn't kept playing.
@@Xport9a few quests later? No she was out of commission for the entire launch patch. She recovered at the end of the msq and returned to the story for post patch quests.
@@SH1NK1R01 Exactly, she DID returned eventually. Hell, even in ShB.
@@Xport9 She got injured during the attack on Rhalgr's Reach, which happens at level 61, and then we don't see her again until the end of 4.1 I think.
They were too nervous about committing to any one angle regarding the characters so they tried to do a little of everything and it turned into a mess.
Just have us mess around with Azem's Doorknob (giggity) and accidentally end up in a random reflection and we have to learn the correct way to use it in order to get back. Maybe we can find a way to pull Zero over and then bring in 5 or 6 new characters that happen to be warriors of light from that reflection that actually remember us. They all had the same dream on the same night of appearing by our side and fighting an armored warrior at the top of a crystal tower, followed by "to the edge" being stuck in their heads for days.
They know of a powerful mage in another nation there that may be able to give us some insight on properly using the crystal to get home so we set off for adventure.
No scions, clear objective, plenty of unknown to explore. Meanwhile poop occurs on the source and the scions have to deal with it without their trump card, setting us up for 9.0 when we get back.
If I may one change to that, I don't think a story about not being able to return from a diff shard would make any sense considering this is a mmo and the game won't stop you from say visiting the rising stones to say hi to tataru at anytime. that being said, what it could do is a very similar plot but instead of the problem being that we can't go home, have the core problem be we need to stay in the shard to prevent say a calamity like with shadowbringers, but this time we are alone, we used the hourglass and we can travel to the new shard but we haven't learnt yet how to bring anyone with us
@@25xxfrostxx I’m still convinced that DT should have been the Endwalker patch MSQ where we take a beach adventure and meet some new locals and the Zero/Golbez arch should have been the new expansion. The story with Zero was way better than DT.
Peak writing idea
The wrestling raids story finally freed us from WL.
She can’t even break the wall of realities to butt in!
I am also stunned why people on the other side of our own plant seem to act like the final days did not occur.
I know this is a bit too convenient, but the final days happened in a relatively small area, they did not have time to extend to the whole world before we solved it. Not even Sharlayan was affected.
I was hoping Dawntrail would have been me and Krile having an adventure to find her past as the central focus with Wack Lebron being off to the side, but instead got the exact opposite.
I never understood people saying "its a new story so of course its slow and not that interesting" when Shadowbringers exist. Shadowbringers had a brand new world with brand new NPCs that we knew nothing about and STILL managed to be super interesting right from the start. It wasn't Emet lore dumping us about overarching "10 years in the making" story stuff that made Shadowbringers interesting, the MSQ was already interesting before all that.
Wrong, Shadowbringers was still part of the same story. Dawntrail is part of a brand new story entirely. It's not hard to grasp that. With something like that it'll be slow throughout. Shadowbringers was slow until after you got out if the Crystarium then ran into a threat.
That wasn't a new story at all. Leaving aside the Ascians, the story of the First was introduced in Heavensward.
@@Violent_WolfenDescribe to me what makes understanding the culture, people and situation Norvrandt less foreign and more familiar than that of Tural.
Just because someone says DT is the start of a brand new story doesn't make it more acceptable to be boring. Save for Wuk Lamat, all of the main cast were people from previous expansions that assumed you knew them; a lot of moments directly references plot points and entities from previous expansions (WoL saw a situation and had a dialogue option to say 'This reminds me of _____' at LEAST three times); one of the biggest moments in the game was a callback to Endwalker patch-MSQ where the dragons show up; the big unexplained mystery is yet more Ascian stuff.
There's nothing to protect Dawntrail's exploration of a new continent and new story from travelling to Othard or Norvrandt. Nothing at all.
While I understand what you are saying. This example isn’t great. Shb was very much a part of the main line story. Not only was the first introduced in heavensward but emet was literally an ascian. The main villain with his goal being by extension their goal. The inciting incident of the expac was the scions being slowly abducted and our haste to save them was also motivated by the garleans military movements since we desperately needed the team united to face them. Nothing other than the geography was really a separate thing from the main story. By comparison tural shares the planet but none of the history or culture with anything else. Most of the people on the first are alternate versions of source characters. The turali are just different people.
In the end I agree that it’s not an excuse. But much of what made Shb good was actually how deeply connected it was to the overarching tale despite how different it should have been.
@@ItsCassius Easy, Norvrandts culture and people can be understood by a single word "Desperate" the entire world is on the brink of collapse and when we come its immediately understood shit is fucked up beyond repair. Norvrandt isn't a world that needs saving it's a world that needs a stay of execution. Where as in DT we have two worlds, Tural the functional nation of cooperative tribes ruled over by a monarch who preaches tolerance and acceptance into their culture and conversely Alexandria a destroyed but still persisting nation that exists as a colonial entity and a stark representation of imperialism and its unsustainable nature (souls being resources they do not have an infinite supply of and thus must colonize and destroy other worlds) The simple ideas alone in DT are much more nuanced in displaying two kingdoms that functionally oppose each other simply on the idea that conquest is not a sustainable method of governance.
The problem is that "really wishing the scions were here" is how the summoning crystal works unless they break it somehow
Since launch, I've said that a lot of Dawntrail MSQ felt like side quests. Good to hear they're thinking about that, it's not a bad thing to get to know new people but tribal quests exist for a reason. Most of the first half of Dawntrail felt like tribe quests, to me at least. For people that don't care, they don't have to do it, but for people that care a lot about this new world and new lore and stuff can delve into that lore on their own time.
I'll be honest, that's pretty much why I liked it. It felt like a new and better take on ARR, where you learn about a new land, new people, and a new set of history. Maybe that's just me but I genuinely enjoyed the more relaxed feel of 90-95, exactly because there wasn't a sword of damocles hanging over our heads like there was in Heavensward, Stormblood, Shadowbringers, or Endwaker, and we could just go on a journey and learn new things without a need for it to save the world.
@@Crouza I felt the same way. Like yeah it was slow, but there was this relaxed feeling that we truly were just learning about a new continent we were visiting. There wasn't a big overarching bad guy with a looming threat where every location was burning to the ground 24/7. Even going into the 2nd half, learning about Sphene and her people was really interesting for me. Idk, I ended up overall enjoying it. There was issues for sure but not enough to ruin the story or anything like that for me.
on the otherhand, I get why there's a lot of "sidequesty throwaway" in DT is because they're baiting interest for later.
After finishing the MSQ I was reading some of the reviews from other people and someone said that the first half of Dawntrail felt like a really long Tribal Quest, and now I really can't unsee that xD
I'd heard that the first half of Dawntrail's MSQ was literally written by the people who did Endwalker's tribal quests. Yeah, you heard me. It feels like tribe quests because it was written by people who spent a couple years *writing* tribal quests. Yeah.
In my eyes, Yoshi p only saying about the pacing and nout about writing is, he didn't want to blame his team in public. I would do the same bcoz blaming one specific department could destroy the morale of the team.
The biggest issue facing FFXIV - it's starting to cater to its western audience and ruining its core identity. YoshiP and his team should have never given more than a second's thought to its sudden western player influx. Western players and game "journalists" tend to hyper-analyze games, expecting them all to be equal in quality story wise to best-selling novels.
Eastern story-telling has always been values based, they should've stuck to that as that's what separates it from most of the hot messes we see from western AAA titles.
Considering one or two Western VAs are using the PR protection as an excuse to continue gaslighting the customers, it's possible we'll see some positive changes moving forward. We can only hope.
'we wanted all scions and also new characters'... thats such an amateur mistake... screentime is limited, thats how it is. and then, on top of that, they went and used most of the screentime on one single character saying the same things over and over again while barely getting any development
everything is clear in hindsight. DT took brand new strides that had potential. however they didnt see as many downsides as they should have, but they immediately saw it at launch. they didnt know how they wanted to continue this game and now they have a baseline of the players mindset to build off of
I can think of a few character traits and dialogue lines (as written, not worried about voice acting) that could have been given a touch up. The whole script is really rough for ff14 standards.
After thinking about it now, though, I think the reason why it took so long to punch something was because everything had already been "solved", for the worst. There was no meaningful conflict that required dungeoneering at all until the thing with lizard boi. The New World had been settled already, so there's nothing that you needed to use your machete on. No vines to cut, no map to follow. No trail to blaze on the road to El Dorado.
Wuk lamat has made me just want to become like estinean, becoming a wanderer, solving problems of an area and then moving on. I want to be an adventurer, with an adventures guild, where I can do bounties to rise through the ranks. I want to become a platinum, SSS teir adventurer that is a staple in manga.
Either way, no new main characters like wuk lamat, the should all just be side characters.
Platinum SSS tier adventurer? I just saved the F universe, you can take you platinum certificate and stick it into your...
@7RicolmE7 guess you didn't like how we were a nobody in tural?
Yeah. I don't want to "rise through the ranks." I've risen through the ranks many times already. No more "Warrior of Light goes to a new land and no one knows who he is, so he's just a newbie adventurer" stuff anymore. If I wanted to do that, I'd create a new character and just play FFXIV all over again.
@FolsomC no I'm more talking about a revamp of the current hunts. I think they should redo it so that it operates more like bazja duels or the critical engagements work. Make the content teired so that you can work through the levels of difficulty, and earn greater rewards.
Even the regular fate system should be revamped, because what they have now sucks compared to bozja. It is pretty much just mindless killing, and doesn't make the shared fates system enjoyable at all. We already know what they are capable, it is stupid that they are putting such low effort as since we know what they are capable of.
@@FolsomCwell I want to do that. I want to be unknown newbie over and over again. We have conflicting interests here.
"I'm on a 27" monitor and it is only one line"
Bruh, you can be no 200" monitor and it is the same, since the site scales from your resolution, not the size of your panel.
Being a new beginning isn't an excuse for garbage tier writing
My thought exactly. Every time I bring up criticisms about the current MSQ, i get met with some excuse like that. Oh it’s the beginning of a new story or you can’t expect it to be as exciting as Endwalker or oh but it’s world building or hey it’s our vacation.
It’s not that it’s not as high of heights as Endwalker or that it’s world building…it’s that it’s not good. It didn’t really succeed in much of those categories anyways.
100% agreed. The whole script felt like a rough draft and for some reason no one talks about it. I keep getting the final story trial in my roulettes, and the more I have to hear Wuk Lamat and the boss's dialogue the angrier I get. it's like they didn't read what they wrote at all.
I don't think it's garbage tier.
Solid B+ writing.
Obviously if you were to compare it to something like Heavensward it's going to come up wanting, but it's not in any way a bad story.
@henrychurch6062 I agree with ya, it like the Justice League Season 1, bad compared to what came before but if looked by itself, it's fine.
@@MegaDarkness5000 Taste is hard to argue with. Oversimplifications of conflicts, Scions being pushef back to glorified secondary nodders with no agency and character or motivations. Not even the "holiday". Aside from Estinien maybe all of which was offscreened. And a multiple of other glaring issues like pacing and poor misic placement. Good characters just used wrong. While Im not apart of the Wuk Lamat hate crew. She got WAY too much screentime and dialogue compared to others. 4-5/10 for me.
Was really hoping after endwalker we would be traveling by ourselves. Estenien is going on the adventure we should be having. Would much rather travel alone while being introduced to new faces
Mike complains about how Estinien was utilized but I think he was the only Scion who was properly utilized in Dawntrail. Estinien is basically a vagabond now, going where he pleases and when. He's enjoying his freedom from being the Azure Dragoon of Ishgard now that he's freed from those responsibilities (and the world isn't ending). Dawntrail shows that he's present in the world and not tossed to the side and forgotten. He shows up where it's appropriate, then leaves. Estinien is not only doing what I wanted our WoL to be doing, he's also doing what I wanted all of the other Scions to be doing as well. Last expansion: "The Scions are disbanding and we're going our separate ways". This expansion; "We're getting the Scions back together". Krile should have been the only Scion adjacent character to come with us in Dawntrail. Instead of forcing the Scions into the story I would have preferred them to introduce a new set of characters like you said. I'm still upset that after the big revelation and his (sort of) redemption, Bakool Ja Ja didn't become a permanent member of our party. Same with Koana.
@@SilentaryXIV I agree with everything except the bakool ja ja joining our party.
@@jaahman0098 did you not like the character or just don't like the idea of him joining our party? I was thinking he was going to join us and help Wuk Lumat become Dawnservant as part of his redemption arc. I do love how they ended up utilizing him though. Seeing him defend the city and everyone's reaction to it (including himself) was amazing.
@@SilentaryXIV I just didnt like his character.
His redemption to me just didn’t feel earned or better yet felt like it was handled poorly with how fast it was. He showed no signs through the entire first half of the expansion that he was a good/okay guy.
He yawned and was disrespectful to the current dawn servant. Talked a lot of crap and tried to kill wuk lumat. Threatened and tried to kill civilians during the test. Cheated and released a calamity that if we weren’t present would have destroyed the entire continent of tural. Mind you he wasn’t even there to help fight it. He did it just to get ahead of the competition. Then after he lost to wuk lumat we get his backstory and all of a sudden we should just ignore everything else out of sympathy. I just didn’t want anything to do with him. I didn’t forgive him and didn’t even think about him joining us. Him defending the city was cool I guess but like it’s the least he could do after how awful and terrible he was throughout the entirety of the first half.
If the devs would have done better with his character i definitely would have felt differently but to me he was one of the characters that was handled poorly.
@jaahman0098 that's 100% fair. I still firmly believe Dawntrail is two expansion stories crammed into one. The pacing was soo strange. It spends too much time on some stuff, like the first two intro zones, but then flies through other bits, like Bakool Ja Ja's redemption.
Going to PC Gamer for the information is a risk in and of itself: You don't know what you're getting, but you're pretty darn sure you're getting scammed.
Rather than comparing to previous expansions' MSQ (which was definitely much better), along with other aspects that aren't MSQ related, the story by itself was just mid. Not only was there too much Wuk, which I personally didn't really like, some of the Scions just acted much differently from what they would. There's also some of them being with us when they should be in other places of the world, when it comes to the resolve of the previous story. At the same time there's also a lack of the scions that were there. Not to mention Krile was done dirty.
I do still have hope for post expansion patches, as in every single previous expansion they never disappointed and were 10/10 imo.
Sure a vacation is good and all that, but this story felt too frustrating to be a vacation. Would just have prefered to check on places in the world after its saving. Especially Garlemald. But at the same time I didn't mind this road, as the zones were pretty awesome, just story itself didn't meet the same quality.
I think it's too soon to check on Garlemald, it literally just got liberated pretty much. The only thing we did in between was handle the void portal and help Zero. I'd almost say that would be better done possibly later in the post 7.0 MSQ or possibly in another expansion altogether.
@@Noryll1327 Yeah, that's fair. Just saying it, because I think the story in that regard would have been done hopefully better than a whole new one. I did love the zones of this expansion, which makes me happy that they did go with this route, just a shame that the story didn't meet the same quality as all that other stuff.
"the Scions just acted much differently from what they would" This was my exact thoughts during the part where they all decided to "guard" the portal. It makes no sense that Ysh wouldn't want to come when she is personally invested in learning about shard travel. Its like the writers forgot that she promised Runar she would do anything to find a way to return to the first. 7 people "guarding" an empty room was just so goofy.
I also think checking on Garlemald or similar locales would have been too soon, but I do agree that most of the Scions were acting out of character and/or should not have been with us to begin with. Their reasons for being in Tural were very flimsy at best, especially the twins.
I understand why Krile was with us, and I could have seen G'raha coming as well as Estinien, but Thancred/Urianger/Alphi/Alisaie/Y'shtola should have stayed in their respective places - that would have been in character for them to do.
I would have preferred to be on Koana's team, too. He seemed way more interesting and less of a Shounen Anime Protagonist.
We as the WoL could have taught him about how to be a people person, to relate to people's issues and to care for individual cultures, while nurturing his scientific ways for the benefit of individuals rather than Tural as a whole.
Rather than the WoL just kind of doing nothing for Wuk Lamat except... idk. Inform her it's okay to have flaws and watch her do what the WoL has always done.
I can see how being on Koana's team wouldn't actually solve any of DT's MSQ issues, though. It would just move them to another place. It just sounds much more compelling to me personally.
Y’shtola is the most out of character scion this expansion. She was handed a key to unlock other shards, one that the WoL has no idea how to use, and rather than take it to research how it works just hands it back to you.
Sure ‘Shtola. I’ll totally figure this out with my busy adventuring schedule combined with lack if access to most of Sharylan’s knowledge. No problem.
Actual Y’shtola would have yoinked that key off to her research before you could actually get a good look at it and been back 2 patches later with how it works and nabbing you to protect her as she explores. Probably Estinien too.
The Scions are the Fast Food of XIV at this point.
Everyone likes eating it, but it is clear that taking a break from it is healthy in the long run.
They should absolutely try letting go of the Scions for a few patches
My main complaint, or concern, with Dawntrail is our role in the story. Which may be linked to SqE's difficulties with character focus, such as you mentioned. For the first time in FF14 I felt like a side kick, the body guard, rather than the main protagonist. So far they made a good job making us feel (I've read others saying the same) like the main focus of the story. This time, on a couple of occasions some NPC said something along the way of "we couldn't have done this without you" which just rang hollow, leaving me with the feeling of "I didn't do a damn thing apart from following you around like a puppy and hit those you told me to".
Sadge :(
Forget bodyguard; we were downgraded to a voiceless cheerleader that straw-manned everything said to and about WL. Even the gosh darn "..." (ellipses) response was "Oh, you're so stunned and honored that you have no words". If Job trainers were given the WL treatment, we'd never level up because it'd be "Oh you're perfect just the way you are. You go out there and tell that cactuar who's boss", with cactuar being the reality check as soon as it spurs its needles at you.
"We have other projects to attend to now and we gave these others a chance for msq.. oops. Anyways, back to our other projects."
I rolled my eyes when i was forced to explore solution 9 with wuk lumat in msq.
Why? She is so unlikable. It ruined that part of exploration for me.
The biggest problem with Dawntrail is the MSQ treatment of Erenvale and Krile. Both characters stories were completed, it can't be changed or added too, the only way to fix this at this point is to go back to the drawing board, dissect the current MSQ and re-write certain parts within reason, do it in a way it opens the door for the characters to progress after the story end or even reach some form of reasonable conclusion throughout the journey for example when Krile asks about the earing and her grandfather remove certain scenes which the writers say "I could answer that, but I am not as Wuk hasn't had enough screentime yet".
As for the Scions, clearly Tural is the site of the sundering, so why not just have the Scions leave Mor Dhoa and set up base in Tural, this would solve the City State control problem and help with the Realm Key story. As for the content with the Scions, what needs to happen is less time with the Twins and Raha and more time with Uri, Squirrellover25, Part Time Dragoon and I am blind but have 20-20 vision. Heck even throw our best bud Wheelchair Paladin and Lyse into the mix; we are a group, not just the Twins and Raha. We also need to give Wuk the Lyse treatment, she is a leader not a scion and she should now take a backseat to all future stories.
I know people loved the Raha scene on the Gondola but watching the scene left me thinking "Did who ever wrote this play the story at all?", while it was a touching moment; Raha asking if the WOL had lost anyone was utterly 100% stupid, if anyone knew our story it was his, what has he been doing all this time? We lost our home, our people, minfila, our friend, Iceheart (Granted he wouldn't know), he even watched us beat the gods then they committing suicide. I get the dude misses his mom and dad but asking the WOL at this point of the story was poorly written.
Using this logic, characters like Estinien shouldn't have been there post Heavensward, as his story started and ended there, after Nidhogg's final defeat, realistically. Thancred's story realistically concluded in Shadowbringers after that fight with Ranjit. Urianger's realistically concluded in Endwalker when he finally accepted himself and later reconciled with Moenbryda's family. There are multiple character who's story arcs have "completed" but are still utilized. Minfilia/Ryne's story is the only story that concluded and they've stuck to that, only with minor appearances from her since.
Can you explain a little about Tural being the site of the Sundering?
@@OfficialMidnightRuby Thancred and Urianger both are completed and shouldn't have been in DT the way they were ultimately used, yes.
the shout into the other room "F* you, Chris. Yoshi P agrees with me!" XD
An interview with Ian and Yoshi P would be insane to watch. One can dream 🙏
4:32
I haven't played bastion in maybe 10 years and i still recognised this riff immediately. wow
I think a huge portion of the scions do need to be put on the back burner with occasional cameos. Though i've been sold that this is the twins PoV of the WoL adventures so it be nice to have them all the way threw future expacs
As capable as the twins are, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't biased to spending more time with them and shepherding them from place to place. I am not entirely happy that Alphinaud has taken a backseat in comparison to his sister, but I'll take both.
Ah yes, the age-old "we knew people wouldn't like it, obviously"
Yup, because knowing you have an uphill battle means you shouldn't give it your all, right? Man I love the devs in general but it really feels like they just got bored or gave up after 6.0
I knew people wouldn't like it. I enjoyed it. I actually didn't feel rushed. Even did side quests while doing MSQ, and unlocked all the aether currents during MSQ. Was nice. If you take the relaxed story in a relaxed way, it's a lot more enjoyable.
Wack LeBron was simply a boring and soggy discount Naruto, dattebayo, who had a terrible case "how many times do we need to learn this lesson, young man" syndrome.
Stormblood used the Scions the best out of any expansion. They're assisting where they're useful, not hogging a story they can't contribute to. Y'shtola getting sliced was exactly what needed to happen. She would have added nothing to a war story so they used her as a way to raise the stakes. Every Scion is doing something even if they're not on screen at all times.
“Speak with Wuk Lamat “
I wouldn't put it past a game journalist to just copy and paste an article from others. Note the No Man's Sky subreddit troll. Not that I'm assuming that's what this guy actually did.
8:55 You're crazy, but not for the reason you think.
I've yet to finish DT, but I feel like the only scions that currently have story arc's that involve something I want to be involved in are Krile (the whole thing with the clover, golden city and stuff like that), and Y'shtola (getting back to the first). There's also an Arc with Zero an what's going on there and trying to restore the 13th in some way. Graha wanted to come on an adventure with us, and yeah, we got EW, but he's not been anywhere until late on in DT. IMO, having the twins join us to Tural initially instead of Graha was a mistake, and he would have been a good character to have alongside Wuk Lamat and her character development. Krile and Graha, and then pull Y'shtola over once we get a sense of another shard because that loops in her story Arc.
They had an impossible job though. Anything they did after EW was going to struggle. But, I think they made things harder for themselves than they needed to be. Also, fix the damn audio with Y'shtola's voiced lines, just redo them and get them right. Estinien coming to Tural rather than Meracydia doesn't make sense either. He's got a dragon fixation, after EW, that's absolutely where he'd go first.
I don't mind WL, but she also doesn't sparkle for me either.
Also, there have been numerous bits in the story where I've been wanting to scream at my character to move and bloody do something about what is happening right now. That frustrated me, a lot!
I'll say it AGAIN for all the thickheaded Cope Lamats reading:
New arc does not mean it must be BAD.
Slow? Sure fine, understandable.
Different tone/theme/world/colors/characters? THAT'S GREAT.
But NONE of that excuses it for how BAD this MSQ was.
Yoshi P acknowledging the division is good.
Yoshi P saying yeh I predicted it but wanted to blindtest paying customers anyway trollface xdd?
THAT'S BAD.
"We knew it wouldn't be received entirely favorably so we didn't take the time to write a second draft and just hoped new mechanics would carry the game's rating."
-the director/producer in charge of the MMO that carries all of square enix primarily on the basis of its story.
@@PatriotArro SE's got more than just FF going on... and people play FF14 regardless of the story state. The battle content and everything else around it is literally the best its been in years. Like a one time mid story is not going to ruin this game with millions of players dude.
@Noryll1327 i never said it would ruin the game. But I also won't excuse neglecting the writing with good gameplay. It's not their fault I feel that way, it's mine. I have standards.
@@Noryll1327Man, people only liked ffxiv, not because of the combat and because of the fucking story. If this is garbage, millions of players will go away,
ffxiv is not world of warcraft my dear,
Only sylvanas is worse than her, but ffxiv will no doubt catch up to wow in stupidity as the patches come out!
Adblock and Hide Fixed Elements addons are a thing, and this reminds me why I use them.
I think that's what made Shadowbringers interesting, the scions had quite some time for themselves while they were away, they came back with new jobs, new experiences, they had plenty of news to tell us and tell each others. Although it's not realistic to have them come around each new expansion with new wisdom to share, having one out for an expansion, then back the next with new stuff to tell would nicely add a fresh new twist.
Y’Shtola is gone for most of Stormblood because she was gravely injured by Zenos. If you’re going to use SB as criticism, perhaps know your material before saying stuff c:
he even did a whole video reacting to that happening so he has no excuse.
“Ok, so what? What are you going to do about it?”
I must be weird, because nobody even mentions the biggest reason I don't like this expansion when talking about its issues. I cannot stand that Solution 9 and Alexandria as a whole are treated as a friendly faction. They eat souls for fuck's sake. It would be like if Eulmore knew what meol was the entire time, and keeps eating it even after the end of 5.0, and then the raid was an arena in Eulmore where people ate meol to turn themselves into different super powered sin eaters. It's incredibly disgusting to me and it makes me want to not even play. My account is currently inactive for the first time since I started playing almost three years ago.
The "interpreter" is so that they can have plausible deniability later on and then blame a mistranslation. Not the first time they use that trick.
I hate that he goes on about that they wanted you to spend time in tural toget to know this new area and culture, then throws us into that final half where by the end we don't even know what shard it is and he goes "Oh yeah its the 9th because FF9 lol"
I expected better from this man.
It bothers me so much that after the first half is over, the first three zones are never visited or utilized again. They might as well not exist. It's such a drastic change from previous expansions.
So all in all for me, its a new start for FFXIV story, and they tried to like test fans, and they a bit missed with it, so they now know what to do, and next expansion have to be back to back banger, if thats the case, fully understandable
Yoshi-P was working on FF16, the devs said there's going to be a vacation, yeah i can see they had one while Yoshi was working on ff16.
I played ff14 since 1.0 and the story has never been in a worst state. Wuk and the English voice actor makes me want to skip the story and i know many that did, the voice actor needs to be fired as well they're embarrassing for the game with their stupid takes.
It needs the 1.0 treatment but it wont get it and as the years go by this expansion will be the stop gap for a lot of players, like Stormblood was but this is worse. I've barely been playing and the only reason i'm still subbed is because of my house. I feel like quitting for the first time, i'm not interested in the patches, i'm already waiting for the next expansion so i can forget this one.
People like you are actually insane. Calling for a 1.0 remake of the game again and denouncing the entire game because it had 1 mid MSQ, even though the actual battle content and everything around it has been some of the best we've gotten in years. If this is what makes you stop the game entirely and throw a fit, I feel bad for you.
@@Noryll1327 You just misunderstood everything of what what i said. learn to read before you call people insane.
@@Noryll1327 The story of DT, that nobody likes. Not the game. I feel bad for you, you must be dyslexic.
I agree with ricky; the PR defending the EN VA is certainly not helping the dynamic of the game, and the VA attacking others for not liking how poorly it was handled is even worse because they're still on-board. I lost my literal spark for the game after such an amazing soul-searching journey, only to be greeted with one of the worst plots in Final Fantasy history (that includes any works in the Tactics games as well).
Preach why are you not using an add blocker?
Also I want my scions back. I would love no new main characters and another romp with the Scions. This MSQ was worse than Stormblood. Give me back my friends, Yoshi-p.
You didn’t need to interview yoshi-p. This guy did your interview for you.
PC Gamer for ya... A dying website which is evidenced by the absurd amount of ads needed just to keep it running.
I got to say, I really hate the excuse that it was because well endwalker was the climax! No, it was just because dawntrail SUCKED, period. It had nothing to do with endwalker, I had no expectations of a universe ending fight (that happened anyway), still sucked btw. Rip off of shadowbringers, even wuk lamat breaking in was stolen from gaia busting in during the shiva e8 raid. Alaxandria was a similar presentation of Dead End dungeon (endwalker). Childish writing, ridiculous power growth for 0 reason, constant holes in the writing/story. Wuk lamat did not feel like she earned any of the victories she got. Many trials felt like they either fell into her lap by the grace of the writer, or it was earned by us/other characters. I plan on pretty much skipping and just reading a summery from now on if wuk lamat is going to be the main focus.
12:00 - This would be very interesting. Hard to pull off well. You'd need a villain that was taking advantage of the fact you can only be in once place at a time or situations where you weren't able to operate openly for a compelling reason, etc. Having Azem's Crystal makes things odd.
I for one didn't compare Dawntrail to Shadowbringers or Endwalker, I understood that it's the beginning of a brand new story, with new characters and possibly a whole new direction (which is what they were aiming for) But even through all of that just judging the story (ies) on it's own it was still not very well executed. I think it would be unfair to try and compare this expansion to ShB or EW imo.
yea i see it as a ARR/Stormblood kinda deal. I am not that butthurt about DT as others but it was kinda feeling like filler at parts. But i am excited for post patches cause if it is like stormblood it will be awesome
Shadowbringers good writing,
Dawntrail garbage writing pathetic,😂
@@AbigatorM yea I’m putting hope that the patches will do the heavy lifting the MSQ fumbled. So as it stands right now I can understand how people would be upset at the state of the story before patches.
@@hadesgoncalves983 a lot of the “story” could have honestly been side quest stuff like the article mentioned. Even more so was that because of the filler side quest stuff that made it into the MSQ, we missed a lot of character building and “setting the scene” dialogue that would have perhaps fixed the pacing.
it's pretty fair to compare it to ARR or StB imo, since those are also expansions very heavy on setup and worldbuilding. and in that arena, it's still dead last for me, and it isn't close.
Would love to see the WOL go on into a shard by themself.
so would I, a nice long solo vacation.
@@Shiirow Then you go through the Portal, and on the other side is furry Catgirl "Hi, im Wik Limit"
Doesnt even mention the most egregious thing of us just standing there with popcorn during the most pointless fight after it was over.
See? It's about s personal perception. And how invested you are in the story. If you don't you'll have a bad time. Doesn't make your experience universal of course.
I have gripes with the story here and there for example but that wasn't it. And I like Wuk Lamat on top of that and thought she quickly progressed as a character as if our team was her personal therapist lol
As for me, I wanted to dive deeper into the story of Krile's parents. I got sad when I knew they were dead. It has big implications since they hold the history of the Milallafels. But I guess it will be addressed in the coming expansions. Still, I would have love for them to have more background scenes.
Rotating cast is how Destiny does it too and its less egregious than WoW, in that theres enough shit going down in the Destiny universe that it makes sense that not everyone can make it to each story. But it's still kind of awkward. But that does seem to be the best way to handle massive casts.
I agree most with Krile and Erenville not getting enough screen time. Mostly, because they hyped up these 2 as being super eager to come with you as if they would be made really important to the story later, and it never really happens. Wuk stays centre at ALL times and the whole team behind her are silently providing fall support. It makes the journey feel empty and the end threat feel more goofy than seriously world ending. ALSO! Why is the main threat so badly world ending?! We dont need to 1up Meteon right off the bat imo.
Gonna dump an idea here in what i'm hoping is the kind of direction we take with the MSQ, Now we have the key we could somehow activate it and get taken to a new world on our own once we arrive the WOL is captured/enslaved on said world and forced to fight for their freedom in a ancient greek/rome type Colosseum setting this could take place over a few patches or even half an expac. Now due to how iffy time is when you travel worlds when we get back a couple or even a few years could have passed in the source this would give them chance to build up regions maybe finish some off the more mundane story's off screen and more develop while we are away conveyed through cutscenes etc.
Obviously a lot of details to fill in but would like to see this kind of structure give the scions a little break and have some new scenarios and development for us (wol) but just a random thought tbh
Wasn't Y'shtola handling a little bit of internal bleeding during most of Stormblood?
The story needed better pretext and a better reason other then wuk lamat needs help x 100 and they blew that opportunity in the twink texas zone it gave that vibe of "ah yes the promised solo adventure" an excellent opportunity to introduce a fresh cast of characters to set up for the next expansion- away from the scions. Instead we got a dtory that goes off the rails instantly.
Haaah, I see what you did there.
Of course he isn't surprised, he saw this MSQ long before we did and he warned us that it's going to suck.
Just pray that next expansion has Meracidia and that it's a dragon expansion. Heavensward is legendary for it and you know you want that back.
I tried to close the ads in the video out of habit lol
Is there a reason that Mike isn't using an ad blocker? Especially on PC Gamer, that cesspool doesn't deserve anything.
I think he said, that since it harms his channel when people use them, he doesn't want to use one himself.
many content creator dont. cause it would be a bad example. He literally get payeed by ads aswell. Not just sponsors and community
Wuk lumut should have been put on the sidelines after lvl 75 msq.
Focus should have been on Krile from that point onwards. She should have been the one who interacted with Sphene.
Even G'raha would have been well-suited to deal with Sphene, considering his position back on the First. WL wasn't even nearly close enough to be a leader that could be on-par with Sphene.
This guy absolutely plagiarized Mike, lol
While the response to the pacing wasn't completely wrong, I felt that overall, Yoshi-P was so off the mark.
The pacing wouldn't have felt as bad if the actual dialogues would have been interesting.
And I feel like he didn't get the issue with Wuk Lamat at all. Making her more confident would have made her even more of a Mary Sue. The problem was the lack of character development. The story never really called her out when it was needed, instead we just stood there and nodded to all of her bs.
This interview was so frustrating to read.
i think the answer is just give the scions more lines i wouldnt want an entire expac without them they're kinda the only thing in the current story i like atm
Excellent trade!
You: Wanting to read 4kb of text
Them: Wanting to show you 400mb of ads.
PCgamer is dying thats why there is so many Ads, the owner of PCgamer is out there defending Concorde, one of the biggest flops in gaming history probably. Hes desperate for clicks, i guess.
It's obnoxious and i can't blame people for using adblock, it feels like the correct and safe way to use the internet.
Rotate the scions it's a good idea. Getting rid of them for a while too. But in here is just WL all the time. It's hard to have a brand new character all the time next to you. It feel like that's the main guy, like it happened with Lyse before, and not us. Something fail when most of the people think the best part of the story is when WL is not longer with you for a while, lol.
Heavensward's main story revolved around only Alphinaud (and Tataru to a lesser extent) being the only Scion with us, and while I have my issues with that story in reflection, I think it was much stronger for it to make Alphinaud actually likable through concentrated character growth and rebuttals (like Estinian calling him out for using WoL as a weapon with no consideration of safety during Ravana) compared to his previous know-it-all self.
0:20 - That reminded me of the one forum and question: "how do i create fake close cross on my ad banner, that will instead take you to another website?"
3 adds between two lines of text. THat is why nobody cares about game journalists (and ofc their stupidity on twitter)
and as for FF14... i just see the picture of WukLamat and i don't even to start up my FF14 game.
Y'shtola had been almost cleaved in half by Zenos. There was a good reason why she wasnt there in SB - personally, I didnt miss her...
I dont mind if the Scions arent present - but if we have these scenarios like "the world is ending - again" then I want them to be there. Because it would make sense. They are some of the brightest minds the world has and they have always had a vested interest in keeping the world existing in a livable state. So, yeah, get them, asap. When we fought in the Void, it made no sense whatsoever not to have the entire Scion cast with us. And now again, with this story where another Shard (!!!) is involved, everyone should be there. I mean, yeah, they were, but in the weirdest fashion ever: I'm not a fan of Y'shtola, the least she is involved the better, but there was no reason, no chance in hell, that she would forgo the opportunity to enter that dome with us. - So yeah, make use of the Scions when its convincing for the story, but otherwise let them do their own thing. As you said they would. I have no problems having my character go on a solo adventure for a change...
I've always been fine with Y'shtola being taken out at the beginning of Stb, and I saw good story reasons for doing it. It was great for establishing how much of a threat Zenos was, and since a lot of the story hinges on Lyse and Hien's coming of age struggles, having someone as mature and competent as Y'shtola around would make it difficult hit those beats.
@@Keira_Blackstone Precisely that. Thancred doing reconnaissance went the same direction.
Wow. Yoshi P has realistic expectations. Meanwhile, WoW still sucks.
Am I the only one seeing a big red flag with the executive producer of the game saying he knew there would be mixed receptions? If you knew, how about you do something to fix it? NONE of the problems have anything to do with DT being a "new story". All the problems are about execution. Bad pacing, bad writing, bad voice acting, all of this could've been noticed and adressed before release.
He literally said why he expected it to be mixed. He didn't know it would have the issues it had, he meant it in relation to following up the hype of ShB and EW.
imo CS pacing is generally bad, not just this expansion. The fade up, npc's walk on screen, stop, then dialogue is really unengaging, not emersive at all. Because of this, i barely watch cs's and usually catch up on an edited youtube video instead.
I think they should bench HALF the scions, and bring only 3-4 with us for the next expac. Yshtola and Graha are obvious picks, not just because of popularity but also plot relevance to a likely reflection-centered story, and also being two scions in most need of character progression.
Yshtola has never had an expac where she was heavily featured, ShB is the closest but even then, no more than any other scion. Graha has been waiting 2 expacs for a "proper" adventure with us; not sure how nothing so far has fulfilled his criteria, but he hasnt had much story focus since arriving in the Source so I'd say he's due a turn. This goes for Thancred as well, and this set of three would be ideal for a possible pit stop in the First, as they have the strongest ties there. Krile can maybe be thrown in too, but this party of three can fulfill any duty support requirements etc so I think they make the most sense
While I didn't completely hate this expansion, I definitely had a far better experience later in the MSQ. The majority of my enjoyment of it is definitely carried by the Solution 9 Arcs. I understand the character building they had to do for Wuk Lamat, but it definitely didn't feel very smoothly executed for me. I don;t really mind her much as a character, but I did tire of her as we got later into the quest line. I haven't started the raids yet but I've heard mixed feelings about those too since they don't seem to have any story relevance this time and are a full on side quest. We will see what the endgame holds for me.
For the love of god they need to make walk and verbally talk info dumps. like have some one follow you and fight (like a chocobo) while you kill 10 jub jub birds, but the whole time they relay to you plot dump, verbally so you can focus on fighting. it would go way faster, be more fun, and draw people into actually liking the npcs.
also 900 percent less vomiting.
also also, use your best voices for the most important characters.
I love my FFXIV character and the game itself but lately i've found myself playing Lotro instead.. I'll be back to FFXIV sometime but it doesnt feel like it's pulling me in yet. I haven't played any of Dawntrail yet.
Im playing Everquest and WoW again more than FF. I log in every 30 days to turn the lights on my houses and get sad at the memories I had with friends while we enjoyed playing the game. But now it seems people just aren't around anymore. They all left and the only people around are weird terminally online venue hoppers that have nasty mods. And that makes the game very dark to me.
Dawntrail had the bones of a great expansion. I wish the pacing and voice direction were tighter, but I loved Koana, I loved Gulool Ja Ja, I loved Bakool Ja Ja, the music was amazing and the group content is S-tier.
Even Wuk Lamat had her moments. I had no problem with the VA in the death scene (I had the same issues with the scene itself as Mike did, but not the VA), and there's no way in hell she should have been in the fight scene with Sphene at the end.
When Gaia did it, the whole thing made sense. She was trying to save Ryne, who was losing control. We were shutting down Sphene, there was no saving her and no reason for Wuk to be there. Remove her from that fight and the ending improves a hundred fold.
I want the WoL and the Scions. Like a team. They are tied together through all the adventures they have been on and we are so invested in them at this point. That's my humble opinion.
The fact that believability of the world and its characters and their actions is not even touched doesn't exactly spark hope for the future.
Wuk Lamat's problem isn't a lack of *confidence*, it's a lack of *competence* and *history.*
We have no reason to like her or care about her, and we certainly have no reason to defer to her on anything. The writers simply dropped her into our laps and told us that she was our very important friend. She's never done anything for us, or anyone we know or care about, or really for anyone we *don't* know. She's supposedly well-liked by a portion of "her" people, but no one likes her well enough to help her on her journey. She comes across as a self-insert by the writer(s) who want us to like them vicariously through Wuk Lamat, and who think that her hapless behavior will make her likeable.
That really rubbed me the wrong way in the 6.55 patch MSQ, and gave me a very bad feeling about DT before it had even begun. It felt so wrong to me for Wuk to just saunter up out of nowhere and say: "Hey! You're strong! You're going to help me in an unknown, foreign political affair because you just LOVE new things and adventure! *Right?*" with no good reason given for why I should give any shits, at the very last moment before it all happens. Every other expac spent two or three .X patches establishing a logical connection from one expac's story arc to the next, and I can't fathom why they wouldn't do so for DT, especially for DT. I can't help but look back at the 6.X MSQ with Golbez and the archfiends as a wasted filler arc now when the writers should have been using that time to start establishing Tural and DT as a whole, especially since it's a brand new horizon that we NEEDED additional context on to care about.
Wuk's definitely got a problem with her weird lack of competence, but I've told my friends that I can excuse really clumsy attempts to dump lore. Movies do it all the time too. I hate that there are so many opportunities for nuance and for Wuk Lamat to grow as a person, not just in confidence, and instead her every decision is backed up by sheer luck and a cheer squad that by all rights should have had serious concerns. Alphinaud learned with the Crystal Braves that optimism and happiness doesn't make for a competent leader.
She is clearly the writers best friend, and she just came off as a try hard WoL fanboy who desperately wants to be our friend and adventuring partner. She gave me Buddy vibes from the Incredibles.
It doesn't help that the EN VA is the only one gaslighting people for not liking WL, the song "Smile", or DT at all where the character debuted. Cut the losses with a VA that can't help but involve politics into the mix or their own ego and find a different one, or cut WL out of voice-line scenes in the future. DT had a lot of voiceless scenes, so they've proven it's possible.