A positive outcome would be more people willing to extend the warranty if it was more consumer friendly. I didn't extend my warranty b/c of the terms back in 2019.
I can see the cost of the warranty going up if they see the profit margin shrinking due to payouts. The extended warranty has always been about profit, they will continue to make it by having us foot the new cost structure
Haha I’m crying, if you recall two months ago. I had a stage 2 with all SE parts. I guess I should have waited, but like everything this government does it’s way late for me. Damn! Knowing I left so much performance by following the warranty. I’m not a rich guy, unfortunately I can’t have everything re-done with the new products I would have chosen. Anyway I’m happy with my bike, wish I could have a do over. Thanks for letting me vent😎
I gotta agree with Gixxer. I've worked at 2 dealerships and I wasn't happy with Harley's business practices. Sometimes it seemed like they treated their dealers as a necessary evil. Hope something good comes from this.
I am sick of Harley Davidson, They wanted 175.00 to mount a tire I was buying from them even after I handed them the wheel off the bike, Ended up buying the same model tire from a Kawasaki dealer and they put it on the wheel and balanced it for 25.00
They don’t care about their customers at all they think we’ll were Harley Davidson you’ll just buy another I know one thing I’ll never buy another one from a HD dealership all they do is talk in circles intil your warranty is up
Because my pegs were worn on my Harley, they said I was racing and wouldn't use my warranty. Harleys need a warranty, theyre strait trash if you actually ride them.
i agree. they told me it had to fail before they would warrant even though they knew it was substandard. ugggggh. i just went ahead and replaced it with me paying for it. not happy but i wanted to get it behind me.
@@robertlumsden942 that's such a poor response from Harley. My bike currently has 5K on it and Harley would have made more money had they just changed the oil pump for me. I would have upgraded the cam and other components while they had my bike. so much for them doing the right thing. Hoping to make a decision on a cam this fall and get the pump done at the same time.
Right there with ya Gixxer. When I bought my 2020 Street Glide they flat out told me all service and parts must be done by Harley or bye bye warranty. 2 years now bike is all stock still and I have 2 more years of ESP. I love Harley but their business practices have really soured me from buying anything more from Harley. Hope this gets straightened out to our advantage
I don't feel bad for them because they got away with not recalling A LOT of things that should have been recalled and fixed. At the very least they should have given the affected customers the parts to fix the problem instead of making them buy them. I guess the thing that left the deepest impression on me is the wobbly cranks and the elimination of the Timken bearing along with the loosening of tolerances so they could avoid responsibility. THAT should have never gotten out the door. They also refused to add extra chassis stabilizers to the Dyna, refusing to acknowledge the death wobble, yet when they started the rubbermount Sportsters they included the proper stabilizers stock.
This might motivate Harley to build better parts, and make Screamin Eagle more competitive, reliable and sought after. On the downside the prices may go up on new bikes to offset the surge in warranty repairs. Just a thought. Another great video!
While I have no interest in late model Harley Davidsons (I am a carburetor guy through and through) so I will obviously never own a H-D with a warranty. I do belong to a couple of H-D forums, and what I found out is that the H-D Screamin Eagle tuner is practically worthless, and so are many aftermarket tuners. Any tuner that uses the stock narrow band O2 sensors is simply not going to get the air/fuel mixture rich enough to prevent the engine from melting down if you put aftermarket pipes and an air cleaner on it. It will still be in the 14.1 range, and you need to get it all the way down into the 12.1 range for pipes and an air cleaner. Many tend to favor the ThunderMax system, which both completely replaces the oem ECU, but also replaces the stock narrow band O2 sensors with wide band O2 sensors. Obviously the EPA is not going to like that, and H-D has hopped into bed with the EPA. That has been a big part of them voiding warranties on bikes that were set up with non H-D fuel system parts. There are a couple of independent Harley shops in my area that I would absolutely trust over any dealer. I had one of my Sportsters worked on by one of them once (it was over 10 years old, so a dealer wouldn't touch it anyway) and was completely satisfied. I can see where replacing some parts (ESPECIALLY Chinese made parts) but also non stock parts like cams, or valve train parts, or a new top end that increases the displacement beyond what the engine was designed to handle could damage an engine, and that damage should be on the customer. You've basically rebuilt the engine not only with non H-D parts, but parts that do not meet H-D specs. That is not H-Ds fault. As far as grips, or any cosmetic part or non mechanical part, like a seat, sissy bar, handlebars, and pretty much any kind of accessories, none of those are going to affect the mechanical condition of the bike. As long as you use oil and filters approved by H-D, that shouldn't be a problem either. I have never used H-D oil, but I do use 20w50 oil that is approved by H-D. I typically use K&N filters, because they have a hex on them that you can get a socket on. Now, there can be issues with oil and filters. If you use 0w0 oil and a Fram filter, you will likely destroy your engine. I have seen a couple of car engines destroyed by Fram filters. But the fact is, H-D no longer makes Harleys anymore. You HAVE to install an aftermarket exhaust system to even get the Harley sound out of them. What good is an H-D that does not make the Harley sound? I also include the Harley feel, and the M8 engine lacks any feel at all. Sadly not much you can do about that. But people have been putting aftermarket exhausts (and back in the good old days, aftermarket carburetors) on their bikes forever. My 1989 FXR Low Rider has an S&S Super E carburetor and air cleaner. Very common for that era bike. The modern way is to use tuners and replace some parts of the fuel system (like the O2 sensors) to get a proper air/fuel mixture, that the bike should have come from the factory with.
$140 dollar for labor NOT including an oil change, when I pay $30 dollars for an F150 oil change, $25 dollars for wife's Honda oil change. Yeah EFF HD!
I think a company has the right to protect themselves during the warranty period and considering HD have an extensive aftermarket catalogue I think it's fair that they can determine what they will and won't fix while the bike is under warranty. The mechanic I used when I had a HD had a reputation as being a genius when the fact is he spent most of his time fitting either stock HD parts or mild Screaming Eagle part's because people just did plain stupid things to their bikes themselves then expected the dealer's to fix their foul up's... I had this mechanic and a dealership tell me come talk to us before you do any mod's.
Hell I was told I had to do my 1000 mile service by dealer or warranty is out the window. I definitely think that this is a step in right direction. I really do like the bikes and not so much their business practices
The issue isn’t the MOCO, it’s the individual dealer abuse on any issues. You still cannot change the tune on the bike without voiding the warranty. This is true for and all new cars, trucks, and motorcycles.
I'm not sure how long a warranty is on a new bike but I bought a 2 year warranty from the dealer when I bought my 14 street glide and covered anything drivetrain and it was tuned with a dynojet tuner. I think it has a stage two on it. (Unconfirmed). So to get any warranty voiding work done by said dealer you would have to buy their extended warranty.
Exactly too many people think now that HD is going to pay for their Woods cam and Powervision tuner! Lmao! Buy a new Chevy truck and put a Comp Cams race cam in it and see what kinda warranty you have!
@@jamesstafford62 but the new Chevy doesn’t need that, because unlike most stock Harleys, it makes decent power that is comparable to its competitors straight from the showroom floor without needing money dumped into it
Hey my 2014 dyna is flat out reliable af, buuuut that may be because my ass has put so much time money and effort and have touched damn near every bolt on it
@@keepriding9722 idk if I’ve ever had to push start mine. Wouldn’t know if it worked or not. If I have tried it’s been a long ass time and I put a new high cca battery in it when I did my build and mechanical compression releases
so glad you covered this topic! i left a comment a couple weeks ago asking if your thoughts. again, glad to see you let others know about this that might not have known about this.
I have always thought that if you put on a new FI system, then Harley wouldn't warranty the fuel system or intake. If you put on a new ignition system, then any system related to that ignition system would no longer be under warranty. If you put on a big bore engine kit by S & S, then say goodbye to the warranty on the engine...I always wondered about smaller components like cams and air cleaners etc.... I just don't like the idea of taking your bike in to the dealer to flash the bikes memory for stereo upgrades etc....
I've never bought a motorcycle that had a warranty of any kind. The only failings of any kind happened long after any warranty would have expired, or were caused by some ''mechanic'' that should have his hands chopped off!
@@RealSuperRando my last bike I got an extended warranty, 16 years later and 75,000 miles I’ve been lucky enough to have never had a problem that would have been covered, of course the extra $1500 bucks it cost would have bought a really nice hat.
Back in Aug 2016, after negotiations, the EPA fined the MoCo $12M because Harley-Davidson violated the Clean Air Act by manufacturing and selling about 340,000 tuners, that allowed users (owners) to change how the motorcycle’s engine functions. Part of the penalty was for the MoCo to remove and destroy all the tuners that remained in the inventory and certify that all new tuners will be CARB Compliant (less capability of actually tuning the bike). Another part of the EPA penalty is that the MoCo is required to conduct tests on tuner-equipped motorcycles and provide the results to EPA to guarantee that their motorcycles remain in compliance with EPA certification requirements for emissions. We’ve all heard of the ‘not EPA compliant’ ‘Warranty void’ once a modified bike is plugged in at the dealership. It’s the EPA that’s causing the ass pain. The issue is that once your bike is reported, you’re screwed, let’s say you put a new header to get the catalytic (blast furnace) converter off your passengers foot and then tune the bike with a power commander or other non MoCo tuner and as a unrelated incident, one day, your transmission or clutch needs repair. We all know that a header replacement will not cause harm to other driveline components. However, the EPA will not allow the MoCo to make the repairs under warranty. Oddly enough, this seems to be in direct violation of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. The tuning thing is how the EPA is punishing the consumer. It’s interesting that the FTC is involved. Fascinating to watch one federal agency contradict another. HD customers are caught in the middle. I bet the MoCo warranties will become less draconian. But I also bet that the EPA will prevail over the FTC… I.e. if you use a non CARB compliant tuner, they will not permit the manufacturer to warranty any engine related problems. It’s not realistic for the EPA to pursue individuals, but by using the manufacturers, it’s an endeavor the EPA is capable of.
One of my bikes is a 2014 Dyna Wide Glide, it had the old Tuner on it (orange one) and i recently took the bike in for some work and it had to be retuned, when i picked up the bike they handed me my orange one and a black one and told me they are not charging me for the black one but i cannot use the orange one anymore. WTF. I am not blaming Harley, they are just following the stupid rules set out by the EPA, now if i want i retuned back to the orange one then i have to take to another shop but i have ti pay to have it retuned. EPA can kiss my ass! I also have a 2009 Rocker C and it is tuned with the orange one also. I have a 2021 Street Glide also and that is tuned with the black one which is fine, but why are they changing over the one that were tuned previously, its just costing the customer more money to switch it back or switch tuners. EPA is just a black hole tat pretends like they are doing something for the customer but they are just a pain in the ass.
Back in 2017 I bought a used 2016 FLSTN..Harley charged me like 2500 bucks for a aervice contract..Only when they spilled break fluid on my fender of my GOLD HARD CANDY CUSTOM paint job to the tune of 1500 bucks to repair they ghosted me..Tucson Harley Davidson sucks iron 883 Ball bearings..
hey i saw some vids from 2 years ago about the 883 and it’s really helped a lot with choosing aftermarket parts and where I wanna go and what I wanna make for my goals for this bike so i just wanted to say thank you for making these videos and keep up the good work cuz i’m about to pull the trigger in buy 2022 883
Thanks for sharing the good news!! Hang in there and pace yourself, my friend. You have to have priorities and I think most of us understand that. God bless y'all!!
working on 2 of my older harleys atm guy at the harley dealership said "you should just trade them in for a new one with a warranty" thing is what warranty 😂 plus I like working on.my motorcycle minus the money part.
My scoot is a 2002 no warranty. I have completed a stage 2 with a 2into1 pipe. I have to say you were so correct my TC 88. has woken-up. Very snappy fierce pulling. 07 16 22 500mi oil change push rod adjustment. Going ahead and doing a 3 hole oil change. The shop wanted me to choose the SS 510 cam I did I only wish it's powerband came on sooner. The shop is called Gearheads in Michigan city I.N. The shop is not much to look at however the owner Drew is a master at his craft I am so lucky this shop is only 1.7mi from my house. P.S. Thanks for the vids.
I purchased my new Heritage 114 in 2021. I had a Stage 1 upgrade with Rinehart slip on mufflers and their Screaming Eagle Tune. I asked recently to have a Stage 2 done this Spring. They were pushing The Screaming Eagle Cam, and I said no, that was crap. I wanted an S & S 475C Cam and a Dynojet Power Vision Tune. Thanks to GixxerFoo by the way for helping me make that decision (I really want that loping idle!). They said this would void my warranty. I then said that was prohibited by The FTC. Two weeks later, the dealer answered, "Well it won't void your warranty, but your bike will then exceed EPA specs. We strongly suggest you wait until the warranty expires and we will be happy to install the S & S upgrade this winter. I don't care for the way they initially tried to mislead me. I have a local Harley mechanic that will do the work, for a much more reasonable price.
I bought my first Harley a year and a half ago. I bought a used 2016 Wide Glide from my local Harley dealer with only 900 miles on it. In the last year and a half, I've had to have the intake seals replaced due to dry rot and the engine temp sensor replaced. What really did it for me was I took the bike in a month after owning it because the clutch had too much play in it. The Harley service advisor adjusted it and assured me it was good to go. Two weeks later, I'm riding home from work and the clutch completely lets go. I called Harley insurance to get it towed (a whole other nightmare), ended up trailering to the dealer myself to be told it would be 2 weeks before they could repair it. After 2 weeks I got a call that the clutch was fixed but found out I had a broken weld on the swing arm. After demanding to see the swing arm I found out that the left side where the rear shock mount was located was spot welded and never bead welded and I had to argue with the dealer to get a new swing arm for it
The warranty problems I have heard about is why I have stayed away from purchasing a new bike.....and also that I would have to deal with the local stealership....
I was standing in the service department inquiring about an issue about my bike when another guy comes in asking about what he can and can't do to his new 2022 street glide without voiding the warranty and the service tech straight up told him that if he alters the tuning that it will void the warranty. That if something breaks on the bike and they see that he has put a race tune on it that Harley won't cover it. They guy was educated enough about the topic at hand and mentioned that to the service tech and the tech just shrugged his shoulders.
I'm sure the tech was repeating just what he was told to say. The factory/corporate sets policy. The dealership/owner passes that gospel along. The service dept manager and his techs must follow or find another job.
When I bought Japanese motorcycles I didn't care if they had a warranty or not because they were always good reliable motorcycles and lasted till the day that they died. I never had any warranty dealings because I never had any mechanical problems within the warranty. Generally I didn't have problems with my Japanese motorcycles until they were over 10 years old with a quarter million miles on them. I can get parts for an 80-year-old British bike but I can't get parts for a 20-year-old Japanese bike what's up with that? They don't sell parts because they want you to buy a new motorcycle but Japanese motorcycles are not $1,000 like they were what I was growing up. They are ridiculously expensive now just like everything else is.
because no one wants to fix a 20 year old bike when you can just buy a new one for 3 grand 😂😂😂 Harley-Davidson is a different story the old ones holt their value and very well.
@@coopermeikle3856 I want to know what kind of brand new motorcycle you can get for $3,000? And Harley-Davidsons do not hold their value at all that is a big m y t h in order to justify overpricing at the beginning of the purchase as well as overpriced accessories and overpriced warranties everything with Harley-Davidson is overpriced and undervalue. You can buy a beautiful Evolution dresser that cost $16,000 and you can buy it for 30 cents on the dollar. I know six people who have done that just in the local area alone.
@@frankmarkovcijr5459 yeah because no one wants an evolution dresser 🤣 but the evolution softails are a different story. You can't find those for less than 5-7 grand in my area. They were 7-10 new. Just one of my many experiences.
@@coopermeikle3856 you couldn't get a big twin 472 10 brand-new in the old days you could get a Sportster for that kind of money in the 90s I know cuz I bought my Sportster. When I bought my house in 1993 I paid the same as a big Harley dresser $16,000 if I bought a Harley dresser it would be $5,000 and they have super low mileage on them because people did not ride them except to go to bike night and play vroom vroom on bike night. My house is now worth 75,000 and is surrounded by million dollar condos smaller than my house I made the right choice
Love the video and curious what Harleys re-written warranty looks like What if the re-written warranty is only good for six months and 5 thousand miles on all new bikes, as an example. Harley now provides a warranty, albeit a poor one , to satisfy the Government and they only need to say the consumer knew this before the purchase. Would the Government step in again or is it what it is?
I live in Australia and many manufacturers have a 5 or 7 year car warranty you can get your car worked on by a non factory mechanic but the mechanic has to be dealership approved to keep the warranty !
I just got told, Wednesday, that I have to use all Harley everything by the service department where I bought the bike. I don’t know exactly when this decision happened and I am still not clear, but they are still saying it now that there is still the same old policy.
In 1999 Harley created Custom Vehicle Operations, CVO, because people were pissed that as soon as they changed ANYTHING from factory Harley to aftermarket, it voided warranty. Custom Vehicle Operations created it's own custom aftermarket parts department. It started out as mostly chrome accessories, not higher performance parts. That is evident in the 2001 FXDWG2 Switchblade (of which I own the floor model from Denver dealership). From that came the entire Screaming Eagle line. Factory hotrods using factory aftermarket parts are CVO bikes. None of them would exist had this new law been an old law.
Is there a compilation of the life expectancy of stock Harley Davidson parts? For instance how long do wheel bearings last, when will the drive belt self destruct? When will the transmission wear out. I know there are wear limits and suggested replacement conditions, but, has Harley or anyone done a long term wear and destructive testing?
I don’t know why companies try to nickel and dime customers on warranty claims. My dad was a salesman and then a sales manager for most of his life and I learned a lot from him. He believed in selling the customer a good product backed with great service. He would tell his salesmen that it takes at least 100 good sales to make up for 1 bad one as most people won’t say anything if they’re satisfied with a product, but if it doesn’t work as it should they’ll tell anyone and everyone that they see what they think about it. There used to be brand name products that you could count on for them and their warranty to stand behind their product, but that seems to be out of style in our society today. I bought my 2006 FXDWGI used with about 12k miles on it so fortunately I don’t have to have anything to do with Harley if I don’t choose to. Harley may also choose not to have anything to do with me and my over 16 year old bike as well so I’m thankful for aftermarket suppliers and independent shops (for work that I don’t decide to do myself). It says so much about a company when they go above and beyond what you expect on warranty service, but as we see with Harley the opposite also says volumes about a company as well.
I think by forcing Harley-Davidson to warranty tuners and parts that they do not produce that this will drive up the cost of motorcycles. The increased cost will be attributed to Harley-Davidson needing to validate the functionality of parts that they do not produce. Just my opinion.
No one is forcing them to warranty the work. It's merely can't void my warranty for a wheel bearing because I put on Roland sands grips. They have to prove the tuner caused the problem.
@@ihatesjws1188 I thought that it already works that way. If you put a non Harley-Davidson approved tuner on your bike it only voids the engine’s warranty but not the rest of the bike. Maybe I am mistaken.
@@bradwilliams4921 that's been the problem this whole time. Harley was voiding the whole thing because you put on any after market parts. That's why people where angry in certain parts of the states.
HD didn't start this "right to repair" thing. It was John Deere and Apple. But in the bike area HD is the worst. If I was a dealer it would be any of the big J's, and if I wanted to expand it would be with Korean or Chinese bikes. So I could sleep at night.
Good friend if mine been riding a harley since 1975. Bought a 2005 screaming eagle V Rod and bike would not track straight. after 3 dealerships looking at it, discovered came from factory with bent swing arm. harley refused to cover it stating warranty had expired!!
People are reading way to much into this lmao! You can’t build a complete S&S drag engine and think HD is going to pay you for it then warranty it when it blows up! You can’t pull the cam out of your 2022 Streetglide and replace it with a Zippers or Woods just because you want more power! THE ONLY tuner you can use is the Screaming Eagle EPA legal one Period! If you do modify your engine it will void the Engine but not the WHOLE warranty ! Some shady dealers used the EPA lawsuit to void the whole warranty if engine mods were done, just because you change cams doesn’t mean they could deny a paint or radio problem ! It’s the same rules the car companies have to go by and many HD dealers did not follow the rules! You can buy a new Chevy and get every service done at Jiffy Lube as long as you keep receipts and use the correct grade oil and a OEM equivalent filter! Same with HD now they have to follow the rules like they should have all along!!!
Harley has always wanted to write their own rules. They and every other motorcycle manufacturer make a motor vehicle sold for transportation use on public highways, so they should be held to the same warranty standards as any other motor vehicle. Ford, GM, Chrysler, Toyota, etc. limit warranty claims when it comes to aftermarket performance add-ons and modifications. As manufactured and delivered by a factory authorized dealer, they must also make sure their vehicle adheres to EPA, NTSB, and other Gov't agency standards. Many aftermarket items commonly sold to and used by Harley enthusiasts do in fact violate these standards. Some of course do not. Whether or not these items are the direct cause of failure is a debate for highly paid lawyers and their "expert witnesses" in a court of law. And we know who can afford better experts. I'm sure you have seen motorcycles still under warranty that failed due to being worked on by someone who should never have tools in their hands while anywhere near a motorcycle.
FP3 for me. Thanks bro for all your vids. 👊 Also, I bought my H.D. IRON 1200 2 + years ago, for under 10k, now those are going from 12,900 at my dealership, which I don't go to because I have a FP3 and Amazon. 😊
@@grayghost1423 heck yeah, got shark road slip ons on mine, think they were 199$ amazon lol waiting for lowbrow customs to finish my exhaust, shotgun exhaust.
There are a lot of manufacturers have similar warranty language. Try doing your own work or use aftermarket parts on John Deere equipment! Automotive dealers would laugh you out of the building.
Its about time HD has been screwing us for years .I was going to purchase a new bike but that is one of the reasons I changed my mine. Besides that the M8 still has too many issues.
Us farmers have been going through this same warranty issue with John Deere for years, law suit after law suit. Deere feels that after I pay a quarter of a million dollars for a combine I should not have the right to work on it myself. The Fed's have stepped in and laid down the law to them but they are still thumbing their nose at the Fed's and I'm sure you will see Harley do the same thing. I've been riding Harley's for fifty two years and can count on one hand the number of times I've been in a Harley dealer. And most certainly never bought a bike from a dealer. They can kiss my ass, If I can't fix it then I'll park it in a corner of the barn and buy another one.
I remember I had a clutch cable break on a new bike and I call my dealer and they wanted me to wait a month before they could schedule me in. I said you want me to burn 1/3 of my summer for a $50 cable and 1/2 hour labor
Don't be surprised if HD no longer offers a warranty beyond what comes with a new purchase. It's all about profit, if the table is tilted to their favor as it has been it's a product for sale, if the field is leveled for the consumer the cost will go up or they will simply no longer offer it.
Nice video! Sadly there was never ANY recall on the earlier Twinkies which was the reason why I sold it and went back to an Evo. Damn shame, they totally suck.
Ive had 4 new harleys & never had a warranty problem i even did my own services & as long as i brought oil & filter & recorded milage .i must admit ive worked in shops & in my own garage & the local dealer knew i would rebuild around 10 motors a year as i brought most parts off them especially gaskets as there the best .ive put powercommander 5 on my bike highflow air filter & v& h pips .admitted iv onley had a fork leg replaced under warranty & my wifes o5 sporty had a rocker leak & they fixed it .but here in oz we have better laws than USA .the thing is some people think custom shops are better than some are .you put a high performance cam in a car & you void your warranty.
i think its a good thing for reasons like you said. im sure there will be negative reasons too. like the cam example i think its on the customer to do research and get the right valve springs. a lot of the cams i have looked at will say if it needs better valve springs or not. i think it will take some investigation on mechanics part. im hoping it will make Harley go back to Timkin bearings and they are better about keeping runout on flywheels to a minimum. a couple of things i feel they have been letting slide by. i prefer the Gov staying out of things but this issue i feel needed intervention and make them clearly define what we can and cant do / what they cover. i do expect prices to go up to cover any costs the dealer eats. i bet dealers will come up with their own warranties for a price. good vid
Harley wouldnt do anything on my bike, not even an oil change, My bike is an 02 fatboy with less than 10k miles, but they said they can only work on 03 and newer, P.s. my bike is clean, no rust no corrosion, no frozen bolts.
The Dealerships are privately owned. Each dealership can choose what they want to work on. My local Dealership will work on my 2012 StreetGlide. I recently bought a 2000 FXDWG with 22,000 miles on it. It's a real creampuff. I haven't needed to take it to the Dealer yet, so I don't know if they'll work on it.
@@benscratchin8014 Well after denying my service request they tried to sell me a bike, I said why would i by a bike from you, If you dont trust youur products then why should I....lol
My friend is a master mechanic for BMW they said they won't touch vehicles older than 10 years old due to dry rot. There liable is a plastic wire or connection brakes. So they would rather dave the head ache and work on cars 10 years and newer.
HD is not always good about warranty work even if you have all the bike stock. I saw this first hand.i still bought another one but I also have a great local shop that stands behind their work.
In 1976 I purchased a new FLH 1200. I was 19 years old working on an offshore oil platform. I had money, serious money. I paid cash for my Harley because they would not finance 19 year old me. Whoever built the engine didn't shim the crankshaft so the engine ate itself. When I trailered the bike to the dealership the mechanic said I should get a new engine under warranty. The engine was shipped to Harley Davidson for inspection. When the found out I had paid cash they then refused to replace the engine because the bike wasn't coming back on them. I talked to a lawyer and he told me it was Harley's decision if they made good on the warranty so basically I was screwed. Because of that I've never purchased or owned another Harley Davidson, and never will. Today I'm 66 years old and continue riding so imagine how many motorcycles I've purchased over the decades I've been riding that could have been new Harley Davidson motorcycles.
Since you broached the subject of warranty, what about the extended warranty? If you purchase 3 additional years, they consider that a 5 year warranty. Even though it doesn’t do anything ine first two years. So if you cancel it after in the first year after the factory warranty, they consider that 3 years of a 5 year warranty and will only give you your 2/5th of your money back. Not 2/3rds like it really should be. What a ripoff.
What about Dealers that install Non-Screaming Eagle parts (Exhaust) on new bikes and will cover, themselves. Then when away from that dealer, and something goes wrong. Will the other Dealer be required to cover repairs? 🏍💨🏍💨
I remember oh it probably was at least 10 years ago friend of mine had a hitch on his bike it was sold by Harley-Davidson in the parts department installed by Harley-Davidson and then he had a warranty claim drivetrain related. And the dealership said take that that tow hitch cuz when the representative comes around he'll deny the claim.😡😡.. I thought that was pretty shady but our local dealer is always been awfully shady. It's a nice family dealership or it could be one of the few family ones but the family has always been kind of funky. Oh I've heard stories from friends that said they have to have the first check up and oil change done at the dealer. Or everything else is no and void.
That's what kills me, Harley will sell you the damn hitch and at the same time recommend you don't pull a trailer. They've had hell on transmissions and trailers.
My question is i@ will any of this new info going to be retroactive? I have a 2018 RG Cvo. I started having sumping issues with about 6 months left on the factory warranty. MOCO had not come out with the upgrade for the oil pump so I purchased the S & S pump and cam plate, upgraded the cam since they were going in the chest, and added a Power Vision tuner all bought and installed by the dealership. Needless to say MOCO voided what was left of the power train warranty.
That's a question I was wondering too, cause with the Super Tuner they had to buy all them back regardless of when you purchased. So really kind of wondering if they will go back several years on the warranties.
The FTC says Harley has to allow third party parts and maintenance. The EPA demands that no changes can be done to Harley Davidson motorcycles that may change the emissions profile. The FTC and EPA demands are in conflict. Harley Davidson is stuck in the middle. The customers end up suffering over it.
@Edmund P. Lewis Everyone prayed to the Harley Davidson gods and nobody worked as a team. Most had the tats, the metal, and the clothes, and the 'look at me and my BA attitude, but few actually had ever ridden so much as a mini bike. The lack of management and the I'm badder than you attitude tore that place apart. It sucked shit through a straw.
90% of the guys I ride with have HDs. Watching the issues they deal with, many warranty and service related have kept me from buying one. I only buy what I'm able to wrench on.
Here's the thing about owning something. It's yours - AND your responsibility. If you modify it - at all - you have voided any manufacturer's warranty. The idea that "someone else is responsible" for your own property and actions is way off base.
i've never been a harley fan, never will be.but i do watch your videos, because i've learned so much about them.good & bad.i find it odd that their are so many issues with newer bikes.my 84 honda magna is still running just like it did the day it was made.even the soft cams are still perfect.perhaps the japanese are just more concerned with reliability & overall cost. honor is still highly regarded in japanese culture.it seems to have died here in the US over the last few decades.
It is no longer about making motorcycles but pure marketing and Profit Per Share margins. You can't even ride the bikes at the dealer anymore since they're hiding their inventory in a nearby warehouse.
I’ve never got caught up in the hype of buying a new Harley and then dumping a small fortune in to be in the crowd. To me this is foolish. I ride older Harleys and purchased a factory service manual for them and save thousands. I’ve never wanted to be part of the “in” crowd. Fuck the “in” crowd as far as that goes!
So I am a believer in warranties but not the Harley ones. I plan on buying an aftermarket version that will cover any big issues that could arise. It is my understanding that they don't care if it's a factory part or not. Any thoughts?
I don't think you are going to see H-D being responsible for the motor or drivetrain once any aftermarket power adder is installed. I also don't think you are going to see H-D being responsible after an aftermarket tuner has been installed because technically all of those tuners are not EPA compliant. Also if the bike has been tuned by an independent with an aftermarket tuner and the motor fails H-D again will not be held responsible. Lets face it, none of these aftermarket horse power adders will work if an aftermarket tuner cannot be installed to take the bike out of EPA mandated emissions so all of this work is technically illegal from a government standpoint. If you want proof of everything I am saying just look at what has been going on with the diesel pickup truck and aftermarket parts and tuner industry in that sector. I think this could really backfire on all of the consumers of the aftermarket speed shop industry for H-D products as now they may be going under a giant magnifying glass and the government may come down hard on the industry. Take a look at the huge fines leveled on independent diesel shops who were doing exactly the same thing that the aftermarket bike shops are doing now. This may not end up being a good thing at all.
SOP on most manufacturers and brands during warranty. No aftermarket ex system. No Power Commander or ECU performance changes. Not rocket science. Wait till the warranty period expires - all bets are off - do what you want.
HD should have been out if business a long time ago after the AMF era. Other bikes don't fall apart or blow up like a HD's.There are great bike companies out there that bend over backwards for there customers .This produces new and repeat business. I've been asked many times " If HD flew a plane..would you fly in it?" NOPE!
Hello, Question - Do you know if the new warranty rules Harley must follow carry over to third party warranty companies? I am buying a used 2017 CVO Limited, and was ready to purchase a warranty from Discount ESP. $1,800 for 3 years. Then as I was reading through the contract, and seeing the exclusions, and requirements to get a repair done I started questioning if this was a good idea. I already know about a few of the issues I may need to address like the oil pump, and oil transfer, and it looks like these would be excluded if they don’t actually cause a failure. I was mainly concerned with getting all the electronics, and electrical items covered. What’s your opinion? Would it be smarter just to fix the items that fail myself, and save the money, or buy an esp?
The third party warranty companies are iffy and dealers may or may not honor them for several reasons. Depending on their protocol (warranty company) you drop your bike off for repair and you may have to pay the service department up front and hope the warranty company reimburses you. I would save my money for if you ever have a major failure.
Too few younger cyclists see Harley as an option. T he company can't afford to offend the customers it has. The corp heads better wake up or Harley will go the way of the Henderson,
If you add aftermarket for offroad use only pipes and tuner Harley will not have to cover it if your engine burns a piston because the tune was way off. If you change the cams and your valve springs break or a lifter craps out, too bad, Harley will not cover it. And they shouldn't. Now if you put on apehangers and something in the engine or drivetrain breaks Harley should be responsible. Now, if you have 2000 miles on the bike and the rear tire is bald , and for some reason the clutch starts slipping who knows, sounds like major abuse to me.
I was waiting for someone to say that. This is exactly right. HD can scare the customer away from working on their own bike by telling them that it won't void their warranty and when their stage kits tear up a compensator or wear out a spring in a lifter, they can deny the warranty claim and get their money twice. Their kits are a ripoff, their tunes are junk no matter how you get them. And they know it. Any dealer is always looking for a way to manipulate service opportunities out of the customer use good oil, change it regularly, keep your intake clean and run your bike regularly. You'll get a ton of miles out of it I'd you don't ride it like a Moron. If you want to go fast, get a crotch rocket. Lol
Do you see any unforeseen circumstances coming from the government making Harley-Davidson change their warranty practices?
The government never fixes anything when they get involved it’s usually worse
Yes, they will simply void the warranty on any modified product, meaning if you did any aftermarket mods you are SOL
A positive outcome would be more people willing to extend the warranty if it was more consumer friendly. I didn't extend my warranty b/c of the terms back in 2019.
I can see the cost of the warranty going up if they see the profit margin shrinking due to payouts. The extended warranty has always been about profit, they will continue to make it by having us foot the new cost structure
Haha I’m crying, if you recall two months ago. I had a stage 2 with all SE parts. I guess I should have waited, but like everything this government does it’s way late for me. Damn! Knowing I left so much performance by following the warranty. I’m not a rich guy, unfortunately I can’t have everything re-done with the new products I would have chosen. Anyway I’m happy with my bike, wish I could have a do over. Thanks for letting me vent😎
I gotta agree with Gixxer. I've worked at 2 dealerships and I wasn't happy with Harley's business practices. Sometimes it seemed like they treated their dealers as a necessary evil. Hope something good comes from this.
I am sick of Harley Davidson, They wanted 175.00 to mount a tire I was buying from them even after I handed them the wheel off the bike, Ended up buying the same model tire from a Kawasaki dealer and they put it on the wheel and balanced it for 25.00
Me too!
In my humble opinion, I think we're going to see a short limited warranty instead of a 2 year unlimited.
Every other big motorcycle brand only offers 1 year warranty.
This is one of the many reasons Harley is struggling. Being out of touch with their consumer is a definite way having putting one foot in the grave.
They don’t care about their customers at all they think we’ll were Harley Davidson you’ll just buy another I know one thing I’ll never buy another one from a HD dealership all they do is talk in circles intil your warranty is up
Except they are not struggling.
Because my pegs were worn on my Harley, they said I was racing and wouldn't use my warranty. Harleys need a warranty, theyre strait trash if you actually ride them.
Not a lot of Millennials stepping up to buy them, they keep pissing off their regular customers they’re NFL. Not for long.
@@Thundercats-HOOOOO you need a new dealer not motorcycle company.
I would like to see a recall on the (2018-2019) M8 oil pump!
i agree. they told me it had to fail before they would warrant even though they knew it was substandard. ugggggh. i just went ahead and replaced it with me paying for it. not happy but i wanted to get it behind me.
Safety issue?
@@robertlumsden942 Me too... But I did have a new cam installed while it was open...
@@robertlumsden942 that's such a poor response from Harley. My bike currently has 5K on it and Harley would have made more money had they just changed the oil pump for me. I would have upgraded the cam and other components while they had my bike. so much for them doing the right thing. Hoping to make a decision on a cam this fall and get the pump done at the same time.
@@ranchodeluxe1 probably not a safety issue, unless it seizes and locks up. More than likely an oil sump issue with the old pump.
Right there with ya Gixxer. When I bought my 2020 Street Glide they flat out told me all service and parts must be done by Harley or bye bye warranty. 2 years now bike is all stock still and I have 2 more years of ESP. I love Harley but their business practices have really soured me from buying anything more from Harley. Hope this gets straightened out to our advantage
I agree, I just use slipons and everything else aftermarket.
I don't feel bad for them because they got away with not recalling A LOT of things that should have been recalled and fixed.
At the very least they should have given the affected customers the parts to fix the problem instead of making them buy them.
I guess the thing that left the deepest impression on me is the wobbly cranks and the elimination of the Timken bearing along with the loosening of tolerances so they could avoid responsibility. THAT should have never gotten out the door.
They also refused to add extra chassis stabilizers to the Dyna, refusing to acknowledge the death wobble, yet when they started the rubbermount Sportsters they included the proper stabilizers stock.
This might motivate Harley to build better parts, and make Screamin Eagle more competitive, reliable and sought after. On the downside the prices may go up on new bikes to offset the surge in warranty repairs. Just a thought. Another great video!
While I have no interest in late model Harley Davidsons (I am a carburetor guy through and through) so I will obviously never own a H-D with a warranty. I do belong to a couple of H-D forums, and what I found out is that the H-D Screamin Eagle tuner is practically worthless, and so are many aftermarket tuners. Any tuner that uses the stock narrow band O2 sensors is simply not going to get the air/fuel mixture rich enough to prevent the engine from melting down if you put aftermarket pipes and an air cleaner on it. It will still be in the 14.1 range, and you need to get it all the way down into the 12.1 range for pipes and an air cleaner. Many tend to favor the ThunderMax system, which both completely replaces the oem ECU, but also replaces the stock narrow band O2 sensors with wide band O2 sensors. Obviously the EPA is not going to like that, and H-D has hopped into bed with the EPA. That has been a big part of them voiding warranties on bikes that were set up with non H-D fuel system parts.
There are a couple of independent Harley shops in my area that I would absolutely trust over any dealer. I had one of my Sportsters worked on by one of them once (it was over 10 years old, so a dealer wouldn't touch it anyway) and was completely satisfied.
I can see where replacing some parts (ESPECIALLY Chinese made parts) but also non stock parts like cams, or valve train parts, or a new top end that increases the displacement beyond what the engine was designed to handle could damage an engine, and that damage should be on the customer. You've basically rebuilt the engine not only with non H-D parts, but parts that do not meet H-D specs. That is not H-Ds fault. As far as grips, or any cosmetic part or non mechanical part, like a seat, sissy bar, handlebars, and pretty much any kind of accessories, none of those are going to affect the mechanical condition of the bike. As long as you use oil and filters approved by H-D, that shouldn't be a problem either. I have never used H-D oil, but I do use 20w50 oil that is approved by H-D. I typically use K&N filters, because they have a hex on them that you can get a socket on. Now, there can be issues with oil and filters. If you use 0w0 oil and a Fram filter, you will likely destroy your engine. I have seen a couple of car engines destroyed by Fram filters.
But the fact is, H-D no longer makes Harleys anymore. You HAVE to install an aftermarket exhaust system to even get the Harley sound out of them. What good is an H-D that does not make the Harley sound? I also include the Harley feel, and the M8 engine lacks any feel at all. Sadly not much you can do about that. But people have been putting aftermarket exhausts (and back in the good old days, aftermarket carburetors) on their bikes forever. My 1989 FXR Low Rider has an S&S Super E carburetor and air cleaner. Very common for that era bike. The modern way is to use tuners and replace some parts of the fuel system (like the O2 sensors) to get a proper air/fuel mixture, that the bike should have come from the factory with.
Love my bike but HD and dealerships do make it hard to truly enjoy the potential of the bikes
$140 dollar for labor NOT including an oil change, when I pay $30 dollars for an F150 oil change, $25 dollars for wife's Honda oil change. Yeah EFF HD!
I think a company has the right to protect themselves during the warranty period and considering HD have an extensive aftermarket catalogue I think it's fair that they can determine what they will and won't fix while the bike is under warranty.
The mechanic I used when I had a HD had a reputation as being a genius when the fact is he spent most of his time fitting either stock HD parts or mild Screaming Eagle part's because people just did plain stupid things to their bikes themselves then expected the dealer's to fix their foul up's...
I had this mechanic and a dealership tell me come talk to us before you do any mod's.
Hell I was told I had to do my 1000 mile service by dealer or warranty is out the window. I definitely think that this is a step in right direction. I really do like the bikes and not so much their business practices
The issue isn’t the MOCO, it’s the individual dealer abuse on any issues. You still cannot change the tune on the bike without voiding the warranty. This is true for and all new cars, trucks, and motorcycles.
That's very true, a bad dealer can sour a customer. I have fought that with Chevrolet dealers, called GM and got a new tune out of the dealership 😆
I'm not sure how long a warranty is on a new bike but I bought a 2 year warranty from the dealer when I bought my 14 street glide and covered anything drivetrain and it was tuned with a dynojet tuner. I think it has a stage two on it. (Unconfirmed). So to get any warranty voiding work done by said dealer you would have to buy their extended warranty.
Exactly too many people think now that HD is going to pay for their Woods cam and Powervision tuner! Lmao! Buy a new Chevy truck and put a Comp Cams race cam in it and see what kinda warranty you have!
@@jamesstafford62 but the new Chevy doesn’t need that, because unlike most stock Harleys, it makes decent power that is comparable to its competitors straight from the showroom floor without needing money dumped into it
@@TheAsheybabe89 a stock 114 has plenty of power my god you never would’ve liked a shovelhead or EVO lmao they had about 70 Hp maybe!
Remember the Ol’ days. When a knuckle and pan were built to last.
Nothing Lasts. 🦅⚡️
Always a Hoot
Yep, still riding my 1949 EL Panhead
Hey my 2014 dyna is flat out reliable af, buuuut that may be because my ass has put so much time money and effort and have touched damn near every bolt on it
@@tommyweese5697 can’t push start it though
@@keepriding9722 idk if I’ve ever had to push start mine. Wouldn’t know if it worked or not. If I have tried it’s been a long ass time and I put a new high cca battery in it when I did my build and mechanical compression releases
so glad you covered this topic! i left a comment a couple weeks ago asking if your thoughts. again, glad to see you let others know about this that might not have known about this.
I have always thought that if you put on a new FI system, then Harley wouldn't warranty the fuel system or intake. If you put on a new ignition system, then any system related to that ignition system would no longer be under warranty. If you put on a big bore engine kit by S & S, then say goodbye to the warranty on the engine...I always wondered about smaller components like cams and air cleaners etc....
I just don't like the idea of taking your bike in to the dealer to flash the bikes memory for stereo upgrades etc....
It’s gonna come down to if you want a Harley Davidson, Work on it yourself, zero warranty, and kick your own butt when something goes wrong
I've never bought a motorcycle that had a warranty of any kind. The only failings of any kind happened long after any warranty would have expired, or were caused by some ''mechanic'' that should have his hands chopped off!
Lol…hell no. I got the aftermarket non-Harley extended warranty and I can get it fixed anywhere.
@@RealSuperRando my last bike I got an extended warranty, 16 years later and 75,000 miles I’ve been lucky enough to have never had a problem that would have been covered, of course the extra $1500 bucks it cost would have bought a really nice hat.
Back in Aug 2016, after negotiations, the EPA fined the MoCo $12M because Harley-Davidson violated the Clean Air Act by manufacturing and selling about 340,000 tuners, that allowed users (owners) to change how the motorcycle’s engine functions. Part of the penalty was for the MoCo to remove and destroy all the tuners that remained in the inventory and certify that all new tuners will be CARB Compliant (less capability of actually tuning the bike).
Another part of the EPA penalty is that the MoCo is required to conduct tests on tuner-equipped motorcycles and provide the results to EPA to guarantee that their motorcycles remain in compliance with EPA certification requirements for emissions. We’ve all heard of the ‘not EPA compliant’ ‘Warranty void’ once a modified bike is plugged in at the dealership.
It’s the EPA that’s causing the ass pain. The issue is that once your bike is reported, you’re screwed, let’s say you put a new header to get the catalytic (blast furnace) converter off your passengers foot and then tune the bike with a power commander or other non MoCo tuner and as a unrelated incident, one day, your transmission or clutch needs repair. We all know that a header replacement will not cause harm to other driveline components. However, the EPA will not allow the MoCo to make the repairs under warranty. Oddly enough, this seems to be in direct violation of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.
The tuning thing is how the EPA is punishing the consumer. It’s interesting that the FTC is involved. Fascinating to watch one federal agency contradict another. HD customers are caught in the middle.
I bet the MoCo warranties will become less draconian. But I also bet that the EPA will prevail over the FTC… I.e. if you use a non CARB compliant tuner, they will not permit the manufacturer to warranty any engine related problems.
It’s not realistic for the EPA to pursue individuals, but by using the manufacturers, it’s an endeavor the EPA is capable of.
One of my bikes is a 2014 Dyna Wide Glide, it had the old Tuner on it (orange one) and i recently took the bike in for some work and it had to be retuned, when i picked up the bike they handed me my orange one and a black one and told me they are not charging me for the black one but i cannot use the orange one anymore. WTF.
I am not blaming Harley, they are just following the stupid rules set out by the EPA, now if i want i retuned back to the orange one then i have to take to another shop but i have ti pay to have it retuned.
EPA can kiss my ass!
I also have a 2009 Rocker C and it is tuned with the orange one also.
I have a 2021 Street Glide also and that is tuned with the black one which is fine, but why are they changing over the one that were tuned previously, its just costing the customer more money to switch it back or switch tuners. EPA is just a black hole tat pretends like they are doing something for the customer but they are just a pain in the ass.
Back in 2017 I bought a used 2016 FLSTN..Harley charged me like 2500 bucks for a aervice contract..Only when they spilled break fluid on my fender of my GOLD HARD CANDY CUSTOM paint job to the tune of 1500 bucks to repair they ghosted me..Tucson Harley Davidson sucks iron 883 Ball bearings..
hey i saw some vids from 2 years ago about the 883 and it’s really helped a lot with choosing aftermarket parts and where I wanna go and what I wanna make for my goals for this bike so i just wanted to say thank you for making these videos and keep up the good work cuz i’m about to pull the trigger in buy 2022 883
Thanks for sharing the good news!! Hang in there and pace yourself, my friend. You have to have priorities and I think most of us understand that. God bless y'all!!
working on 2 of my older harleys atm guy at the harley dealership said "you should just trade them in for a new one with a warranty" thing is what warranty 😂 plus I like working on.my motorcycle minus the money part.
My scoot is a 2002 no warranty. I have completed a stage 2 with a 2into1 pipe. I have to say you were so correct my TC 88. has woken-up. Very snappy fierce pulling. 07 16 22 500mi oil change push rod adjustment. Going ahead and doing a 3 hole oil change. The shop wanted me to choose the SS 510 cam I did I only wish it's powerband came on sooner. The shop is called Gearheads in Michigan city I.N. The shop is not much to look at however the owner Drew is a master at his craft I am so lucky this shop is only 1.7mi from my house. P.S. Thanks for the vids.
I purchased my new Heritage 114 in 2021. I had a Stage 1 upgrade with Rinehart slip on mufflers and their Screaming Eagle Tune. I asked recently to have a Stage 2 done this Spring. They were pushing The Screaming Eagle Cam, and I said no, that was crap. I wanted an S & S 475C Cam and a Dynojet Power Vision Tune.
Thanks to GixxerFoo by the way for helping me make that decision
(I really want that loping idle!).
They said this would void my warranty. I then said that was prohibited by The FTC. Two weeks later, the dealer answered, "Well it won't void your warranty, but your bike will then exceed EPA specs. We strongly suggest you wait until the warranty expires and we will be happy to install the S & S upgrade this winter. I don't care for the way they initially tried to mislead me. I have a local Harley mechanic that will do the work, for a much more reasonable price.
For the price the warranty should be 5 years 60,000 mile engine and Trans .
I bought my first Harley a year and a half ago. I bought a used 2016 Wide Glide from my local Harley dealer with only 900 miles on it. In the last year and a half, I've had to have the intake seals replaced due to dry rot and the engine temp sensor replaced. What really did it for me was I took the bike in a month after owning it because the clutch had too much play in it. The Harley service advisor adjusted it and assured me it was good to go. Two weeks later, I'm riding home from work and the clutch completely lets go. I called Harley insurance to get it towed (a whole other nightmare), ended up trailering to the dealer myself to be told it would be 2 weeks before they could repair it. After 2 weeks I got a call that the clutch was fixed but found out I had a broken weld on the swing arm. After demanding to see the swing arm I found out that the left side where the rear shock mount was located was spot welded and never bead welded and I had to argue with the dealer to get a new swing arm for it
The warranty problems I have heard about is why I have stayed away from purchasing a new bike.....and also that I would have to deal with the local stealership....
I was standing in the service department inquiring about an issue about my bike when another guy comes in asking about what he can and can't do to his new 2022 street glide without voiding the warranty and the service tech straight up told him that if he alters the tuning that it will void the warranty. That if something breaks on the bike and they see that he has put a race tune on it that Harley won't cover it. They guy was educated enough about the topic at hand and mentioned that to the service tech and the tech just shrugged his shoulders.
I'm sure the tech was repeating just what he was told to say. The factory/corporate sets policy. The dealership/owner passes that gospel along. The service dept manager and his techs must follow or find another job.
ooooooooooooo boy the government is going to fix another problem.... my concern look how they fix everything else......another home run Gixxer thank u
When I bought Japanese motorcycles I didn't care if they had a warranty or not because they were always good reliable motorcycles and lasted till the day that they died. I never had any warranty dealings because I never had any mechanical problems within the warranty. Generally I didn't have problems with my Japanese motorcycles until they were over 10 years old with a quarter million miles on them. I can get parts for an 80-year-old British bike but I can't get parts for a 20-year-old Japanese bike what's up with that? They don't sell parts because they want you to buy a new motorcycle but Japanese motorcycles are not $1,000 like they were what I was growing up. They are ridiculously expensive now just like everything else is.
because no one wants to fix a 20 year old bike when you can just buy a new one for 3 grand 😂😂😂 Harley-Davidson is a different story the old ones holt their value and very well.
@@coopermeikle3856 I want to know what kind of brand new motorcycle you can get for $3,000? And Harley-Davidsons do not hold their value at all that is a big m y t h in order to justify overpricing at the beginning of the purchase as well as overpriced accessories and overpriced warranties everything with Harley-Davidson is overpriced and undervalue. You can buy a beautiful Evolution dresser that cost $16,000 and you can buy it for 30 cents on the dollar. I know six people who have done that just in the local area alone.
@@frankmarkovcijr5459 yeah because no one wants an evolution dresser 🤣 but the evolution softails are a different story. You can't find those for less than 5-7 grand in my area. They were 7-10 new. Just one of my many experiences.
@@coopermeikle3856 you couldn't get a big twin 472 10 brand-new in the old days you could get a Sportster for that kind of money in the 90s I know cuz I bought my Sportster. When I bought my house in 1993 I paid the same as a big Harley dresser $16,000 if I bought a Harley dresser it would be $5,000 and they have super low mileage on them because people did not ride them except to go to bike night and play vroom vroom on bike night. My house is now worth 75,000 and is surrounded by million dollar condos smaller than my house I made the right choice
Good for you. Completely off topic but glad your house is worth more. 👌🏻
Love the video and curious what Harleys re-written warranty looks like What if the re-written warranty is only good for six months and 5 thousand miles on all new bikes, as an example. Harley now provides a warranty, albeit a poor one , to satisfy the Government and they only need to say the consumer knew this before the purchase. Would the Government step in again or is it what it is?
The Magnuson-Moss Act is what covers this warranty work.
I live in Australia and many manufacturers have a 5 or 7 year car warranty you can get your car worked on by a non factory mechanic but the mechanic has to be dealership approved to keep the warranty !
I just got told, Wednesday, that I have to use all Harley everything by the service department where I bought the bike. I don’t know exactly when this decision happened and I am still not clear, but they are still saying it now that there is still the same old policy.
In 1999 Harley created Custom Vehicle Operations, CVO, because people were pissed that as soon as they changed ANYTHING from factory Harley to aftermarket, it voided warranty.
Custom Vehicle Operations created it's own custom aftermarket parts department. It started out as mostly chrome accessories, not higher performance parts. That is evident in the 2001 FXDWG2 Switchblade (of which I own the floor model from Denver dealership). From that came the entire Screaming Eagle line. Factory hotrods using factory aftermarket parts are CVO bikes. None of them would exist had this new law been an old law.
Its about time. Awesome! Love my Harley but this warranty issue has been stupid! Great news.
Is there a compilation of the life expectancy of stock Harley Davidson parts? For instance how long do wheel bearings last, when will the drive belt self destruct? When will the transmission wear out.
I know there are wear limits and suggested replacement conditions, but, has Harley or anyone done a long term wear and destructive testing?
I don’t know why companies try to nickel and dime customers on warranty claims. My dad was a salesman and then a sales manager for most of his life and I learned a lot from him. He believed in selling the customer a good product backed with great service. He would tell his salesmen that it takes at least 100 good sales to make up for 1 bad one as most people won’t say anything if they’re satisfied with a product, but if it doesn’t work as it should they’ll tell anyone and everyone that they see what they think about it. There used to be brand name products that you could count on for them and their warranty to stand behind their product, but that seems to be out of style in our society today. I bought my 2006 FXDWGI used with about 12k miles on it so fortunately I don’t have to have anything to do with Harley if I don’t choose to. Harley may also choose not to have anything to do with me and my over 16 year old bike as well so I’m thankful for aftermarket suppliers and independent shops (for work that I don’t decide to do myself). It says so much about a company when they go above and beyond what you expect on warranty service, but as we see with Harley the opposite also says volumes about a company as well.
I think by forcing Harley-Davidson to warranty tuners and parts that they do not produce that this will drive up the cost of motorcycles. The increased cost will be attributed to Harley-Davidson needing to validate the functionality of parts that they do not produce. Just my opinion.
No one is forcing them to warranty the work. It's merely can't void my warranty for a wheel bearing because I put on Roland sands grips. They have to prove the tuner caused the problem.
@@ihatesjws1188 I thought that it already works that way. If you put a non Harley-Davidson approved tuner on your bike it only voids the engine’s warranty but not the rest of the bike. Maybe I am mistaken.
@@bradwilliams4921 that's been the problem this whole time. Harley was voiding the whole thing because you put on any after market parts. That's why people where angry in certain parts of the states.
HD didn't start this "right to repair" thing. It was John Deere and Apple. But in the bike area HD is the worst. If I was a dealer it would be any of the big J's, and if I wanted to expand it would be with Korean or Chinese bikes. So I could sleep at night.
Good friend if mine been riding a harley since 1975. Bought a 2005 screaming eagle V Rod and bike would not track straight. after 3 dealerships looking at it, discovered came from factory with bent swing arm. harley refused to cover it stating warranty had expired!!
People are reading way to much into this lmao! You can’t build a complete S&S drag engine and think HD is going to pay you for it then warranty it when it blows up! You can’t pull the cam out of your 2022 Streetglide and replace it with a Zippers or Woods just because you want more power! THE ONLY tuner you can use is the Screaming Eagle EPA legal one Period! If you do modify your engine it will void the Engine but not the WHOLE warranty ! Some shady dealers used the EPA lawsuit to void the whole warranty if engine mods were done, just because you change cams doesn’t mean they could deny a paint or radio problem ! It’s the same rules the car companies have to go by and many HD dealers did not follow the rules! You can buy a new Chevy and get every service done at Jiffy Lube as long as you keep receipts and use the correct grade oil and a OEM equivalent filter! Same with HD now they have to follow the rules like they should have all along!!!
Harley has always wanted to write their own rules. They and every other motorcycle manufacturer make a motor vehicle sold for transportation use on public highways, so they should be held to the same warranty standards as any other motor vehicle. Ford, GM, Chrysler, Toyota, etc. limit warranty claims when it comes to aftermarket performance add-ons and modifications. As manufactured and delivered by a factory authorized dealer, they must also make sure their vehicle adheres to EPA, NTSB, and other Gov't agency standards. Many aftermarket items commonly sold to and used by Harley enthusiasts do in fact violate these standards. Some of course do not. Whether or not these items are the direct cause of failure is a debate for highly paid lawyers and their "expert witnesses" in a court of law. And we know who can afford better experts.
I'm sure you have seen motorcycles still under warranty that failed due to being worked on by someone who should never have tools in their hands while anywhere near a motorcycle.
FP3 for me. Thanks bro for all your vids. 👊 Also, I bought my H.D. IRON 1200 2 + years ago, for under 10k, now those are going from 12,900 at my dealership, which I don't go to because I have a FP3 and Amazon. 😊
Amazon slipons for 200.00 bucks rock. Loved mine.
@@grayghost1423 heck yeah, got shark road slip ons on mine, think they were 199$ amazon lol waiting for lowbrow customs to finish my exhaust, shotgun exhaust.
There are a lot of manufacturers have similar warranty language. Try doing your own work or use aftermarket parts on John Deere equipment! Automotive dealers would laugh you out of the building.
Its about time HD has been screwing us for years .I was going to purchase a new bike but that is one of the reasons I changed my mine. Besides that the M8 still has too many issues.
Us farmers have been going through this same warranty issue with John Deere for years, law suit after law suit. Deere feels that after I pay a quarter of a million dollars for a combine I should not have the right to work on it myself. The Fed's have stepped in and laid down the law to them but they are still thumbing their nose at the Fed's and I'm sure you will see Harley do the same thing. I've been riding Harley's for fifty two years and can count on one hand the number of times I've been in a Harley dealer. And most certainly never bought a bike from a dealer. They can kiss my ass, If I can't fix it then I'll park it in a corner of the barn and buy another one.
I remember I had a clutch cable break on a new bike and I call my dealer and they wanted me to wait a month before they could schedule me in. I said you want me to burn 1/3 of my summer for a $50 cable and 1/2 hour labor
Don't be surprised if HD no longer offers a warranty beyond what comes with a new purchase. It's all about profit, if the table is tilted to their favor as it has been it's a product for sale, if the field is leveled for the consumer the cost will go up or they will simply no longer offer it.
As always... Very Informative and Appreciated. Thank You.
Nice video! Sadly there was never ANY recall on the earlier Twinkies which was the reason why I sold it and went back to an Evo. Damn shame, they totally suck.
EVO love them
@@MAC-co4cr haaa working on mine right now! LOL
Ive had 4 new harleys & never had a warranty problem i even did my own services & as long as i brought oil & filter & recorded milage .i must admit ive worked in shops & in my own garage & the local dealer knew i would rebuild around 10 motors a year as i brought most parts off them especially gaskets as there the best .ive put powercommander 5 on my bike highflow air filter & v& h pips .admitted iv onley had a fork leg replaced under warranty & my wifes o5 sporty had a rocker leak & they fixed it .but here in oz we have better laws than USA .the thing is some people think custom shops are better than some are .you put a high performance cam in a car & you void your warranty.
i think its a good thing for reasons like you said. im sure there will be negative reasons too. like the cam example i think its on the customer to do research and get the right valve springs. a lot of the cams i have looked at will say if it needs better valve springs or not. i think it will take some investigation on mechanics part. im hoping it will make Harley go back to Timkin bearings and they are better about keeping runout on flywheels to a minimum. a couple of things i feel they have been letting slide by. i prefer the Gov staying out of things but this issue i feel needed intervention and make them clearly define what we can and cant do / what they cover. i do expect prices to go up to cover any costs the dealer eats. i bet dealers will come up with their own warranties for a price. good vid
Harley wouldnt do anything on my bike, not even an oil change, My bike is an 02 fatboy with less than 10k miles, but they said they can only work on 03 and newer, P.s. my bike is clean, no rust no corrosion, no frozen bolts.
It’s not just Harley. Most metric dealers won’t touch a bike made before 2010.
The Dealerships are privately owned. Each dealership can choose what they want to work on.
My local Dealership will work on my 2012 StreetGlide.
I recently bought a 2000 FXDWG with 22,000 miles on it. It's a real creampuff. I haven't needed to take it to the Dealer yet, so I don't know if they'll work on it.
@@benscratchin8014 Well after denying my service request they tried to sell me a bike, I said why would i by a bike from you, If you dont trust youur products then why should I....lol
My friend is a master mechanic for BMW they said they won't touch vehicles older than 10 years old due to dry rot. There liable is a plastic wire or connection brakes. So they would rather dave the head ache and work on cars 10 years and newer.
I expect this to mean the end of Stage kits and tuning on Harley’s. It will become as difficult to tune as the other brands. Fully locked down ECU’s
HD is not always good about warranty work even if you have all the bike stock. I saw this first hand.i still bought another one but I also have a great local shop that stands behind their work.
In 1976 I purchased a new FLH 1200. I was 19 years old working on an offshore oil platform. I had money, serious money. I paid cash for my Harley because they would not finance 19 year old me. Whoever built the engine didn't shim the crankshaft so the engine ate itself. When I trailered the bike to the dealership the mechanic said I should get a new engine under warranty. The engine was shipped to Harley Davidson for inspection. When the found out I had paid cash they then refused to replace the engine because the bike wasn't coming back on them. I talked to a lawyer and he told me it was Harley's decision if they made good on the warranty so basically I was screwed. Because of that I've never purchased or owned another Harley Davidson, and never will. Today I'm 66 years old and continue riding so imagine how many motorcycles I've purchased over the decades I've been riding that could have been new Harley Davidson motorcycles.
Imagine? Poor Harley Davidson is gonna have to honor their word.
Had to school a tractor dealer on Magnuson Moss act of 1975. This is no different because it covers all vehicles.
Tuners and replacement internal parts are still not going to be warranted by HD. But it will only effect the part of the warranty that it effects.
Since you broached the subject of warranty, what about the extended warranty? If you purchase 3 additional years, they consider that a 5 year warranty. Even though it doesn’t do anything ine first two years. So if you cancel it after in the first year after the factory warranty, they consider that 3 years of a 5 year warranty and will only give you your 2/5th of your money back. Not 2/3rds like it really should be. What a ripoff.
Very good video. Also Kevin Baxter has a good video on this topic. That was always my understanding the dealer makes a big difference.
What about Dealers that install Non-Screaming Eagle parts (Exhaust) on new bikes and will cover, themselves. Then when away from that dealer, and something goes wrong. Will the other Dealer be required to cover repairs? 🏍💨🏍💨
It's going to be interesting, l say the part you swap is now that manufacturers issue. Anything left factory is still on Harley.
The lawyers are going to get rich
I remember oh it probably was at least 10 years ago friend of mine had a hitch on his bike it was sold by Harley-Davidson in the parts department installed by Harley-Davidson and then he had a warranty claim drivetrain related. And the dealership said take that that tow hitch cuz when the representative comes around he'll deny the claim.😡😡.. I thought that was pretty shady but our local dealer is always been awfully shady. It's a nice family dealership or it could be one of the few family ones but the family has always been kind of funky.
Oh I've heard stories from friends that said they have to have the first check up and oil change done at the dealer. Or everything else is no and void.
That's what kills me, Harley will sell you the damn hitch and at the same time recommend you don't pull a trailer. They've had hell on transmissions and trailers.
2020 Trike Ultra - with Rienhats! Intend to add Cam, (Tourqie one!) Cam plate & Oil pump! What will be my best Tune device? Power Vision etc.
I'm telling ya the dealership in Olathe Kansas are ABSOLUTELY thieves. Terrible customer relations among other things.
My question is i@ will any of this new info going to be retroactive?
I have a 2018 RG Cvo. I started having sumping issues with about 6 months left on the factory warranty.
MOCO had not come out with the upgrade for the oil pump so I purchased the S & S pump and cam plate, upgraded the cam since they were going in the chest, and added a Power Vision tuner all bought and installed by the dealership. Needless to say MOCO voided what was left of the power train warranty.
That's a question I was wondering too, cause with the Super Tuner they had to buy all them back regardless of when you purchased. So really kind of wondering if they will go back several years on the warranties.
The FTC says Harley has to allow third party parts and maintenance. The EPA demands that no changes can be done to Harley Davidson motorcycles that may change the emissions profile. The FTC and EPA demands are in conflict. Harley Davidson is stuck in the middle. The customers end up suffering over it.
So very true. You're one of the few people that realize that they are stuck in the middle
I worked on the line in a Harley factory for 6 months and walked out. Leaving that shit show was a move I don't regret.
@Edmund P. Lewis Everyone prayed to the Harley Davidson gods and nobody worked as a team. Most had the tats, the metal, and the clothes, and the 'look at me and my BA attitude, but few actually had ever ridden so much as a mini bike. The lack of management and the I'm badder than you attitude tore that place apart. It sucked shit through a straw.
90% of the guys I ride with have HDs. Watching the issues they deal with, many warranty and service related have kept me from buying one.
I only buy what I'm able to wrench on.
You cannot wait 2 years for the warranty to pass before adding whatever ? What manufacturer would warranty their product after it is altered?
Here's the thing about owning something. It's yours - AND your responsibility. If you modify it - at all - you have voided any manufacturer's warranty.
The idea that "someone else is responsible" for your own property and actions is way off base.
When is the government going to do something about Tesla, which does the same thing.
i've never been a harley fan, never will be.but i do watch your videos, because i've learned so much about them.good & bad.i find it odd that their are so many issues with newer bikes.my 84 honda magna is still running just like it did the day it was made.even the soft cams are still perfect.perhaps the japanese are just more concerned with reliability & overall cost. honor is still highly regarded in japanese culture.it seems to have died here in the US over the last few decades.
The compression ratio issue is one Harley should have covered. But too bad so sad in my case.
It is no longer about making motorcycles but pure marketing and Profit Per Share margins. You can't even ride the bikes at the dealer anymore since they're hiding their inventory in a nearby warehouse.
What about forcing subscription based service manual’s, can you look into that?
Hello. I bought a 2022 freewheeler. I haven't received anything from harley. Are people getting attorneys for these situations? Thx
Car dealership have been doing this for years!
I’ve never got caught up in the hype of buying a new Harley and then dumping a small fortune in to be in the crowd. To me this is foolish. I ride older Harleys and purchased a factory service manual for them and save thousands. I’ve never wanted to be part of the “in” crowd. Fuck the “in” crowd as far as that goes!
Same here. To piss off the in-crowd my AMF has a proper AMF brand sticker on it. Lets call it what it is 😁
So I am a believer in warranties but not the Harley ones. I plan on buying an aftermarket version that will cover any big issues that could arise. It is my understanding that they don't care if it's a factory part or not. Any thoughts?
this has some John deere business practice similarities. Proprietary repair only.
So true! And John Deere is catching hell for it as they should
I don't think you are going to see H-D being responsible for the motor or drivetrain once any aftermarket power adder is installed. I also don't think you are going to see H-D being responsible after an aftermarket tuner has been installed because technically all of those tuners are not EPA compliant. Also if the bike has been tuned by an independent with an aftermarket tuner and the motor fails H-D again will not be held responsible. Lets face it, none of these aftermarket horse power adders will work if an aftermarket tuner cannot be installed to take the bike out of EPA mandated emissions so all of this work is technically illegal from a government standpoint. If you want proof of everything I am saying just look at what has been going on with the diesel pickup truck and aftermarket parts and tuner industry in that sector. I think this could really backfire on all of the consumers of the aftermarket speed shop industry for H-D products as now they may be going under a giant magnifying glass and the government may come down hard on the industry. Take a look at the huge fines leveled on independent diesel shops who were doing exactly the same thing that the aftermarket bike shops are doing now. This may not end up being a good thing at all.
Thanks for the info.
I have heard that H.D. has warranty prob, but If I boost HP engine HP, to 300, and tyranny breaks, Harley Davidson has to fix it? I don't think so.
I just asked three dealers. And they each said no I asked if they can install pipes and tune. Nope.
The HD and their dealerships were getting to big and smug for their own good!
SOP on most manufacturers and brands during warranty.
No aftermarket ex system.
No Power Commander or ECU performance changes.
Not rocket science.
Wait till the warranty period expires - all bets are off - do what you want.
HD should have been out if business a long time ago after the AMF era. Other bikes don't fall apart or blow up like a HD's.There are great bike companies out there that bend over backwards for there customers .This produces new and repeat business. I've been asked many times " If HD flew a plane..would you fly in it?" NOPE!
True!
This means the CA guys can tune their stage 4's now.
Harley sold them them parts, but they dont have a tune for in their tuner
Hello, Question - Do you know if the new warranty rules Harley must follow carry over to third party warranty companies? I am buying a used 2017 CVO Limited, and was ready to purchase a warranty from Discount ESP. $1,800 for 3 years. Then as I was reading through the contract, and seeing the exclusions, and requirements to get a repair done I started questioning if this was a good idea. I already know about a few of the issues I may need to address like the oil pump, and oil transfer, and it looks like these would be excluded if they don’t actually cause a failure. I was mainly concerned with getting all the electronics, and electrical items covered. What’s your opinion? Would it be smarter just to fix the items that fail myself, and save the money, or buy an esp?
The third party warranty companies are iffy and dealers may or may not honor them for several reasons. Depending on their protocol (warranty company) you drop your bike off for repair and you may have to pay the service department up front and hope the warranty company reimburses you. I would save my money for if you ever have a major failure.
Too few younger cyclists see Harley as an option. T he company can't afford to offend the customers it has. The corp heads better wake up or Harley will go the way of the Henderson,
Agreed
If you add aftermarket for offroad use only pipes and tuner Harley will not have to cover it if your engine burns a piston because the tune was way off. If you change the cams and your valve springs break or a lifter craps out, too bad, Harley will not cover it. And they shouldn't. Now if you put on apehangers and something in the engine or drivetrain breaks Harley should be responsible. Now, if you have 2000 miles on the bike and the rear tire is bald , and for some reason the clutch starts slipping who knows, sounds like major abuse to me.
thats the only way they can sell those junk stage kits
I was waiting for someone to say that. This is exactly right. HD can scare the customer away from working on their own bike by telling them that it won't void their warranty and when their stage kits tear up a compensator or wear out a spring in a lifter, they can deny the warranty claim and get their money twice. Their kits are a ripoff, their tunes are junk no matter how you get them. And they know it. Any dealer is always looking for a way to manipulate service opportunities out of the customer use good oil, change it regularly, keep your intake clean and run your bike regularly. You'll get a ton of miles out of it I'd you don't ride it like a Moron. If you want to go fast, get a crotch rocket. Lol
Is charging how much money on buying a motorcycle next or will the government stop that
My buddy got a new street glide Wednesday night and got a 3 year warranty
Other companies play warranty games also .