Danes: Stop right there, we know you're smuggling weapons out of the country to help Icelandic Independence! Smugglers: No no this is going to the Irish to combat their Independence Danes: Oh shit fam, that's all you had to say
@@benkeane365 Except when they join the Royal Irish Regiment.With Irish wolfhounds.With a gaelic motto. With ceremonial bowls of shamrock on St.Patricks day. *Edit!* Or when they score a trip to The White House on St.Patricks day. Or when they get Irish passports for visa free travel in the EU!
My Grandfather, along with his two brothers, was one of those landing the guns in Donaghadee, he was 15 at the time. In September 1914 he joined the 13th Battalion Royal Irish Rifles and went on to serve in the Somme then becoming a Scout Sniper being awarded a gallantry certificate in 1918 at Ypres. He continued target shooting using a Gem air rifle sold by RJ Adgey of Belfast (the rifle is marked RJ Adgey Belfast) Adgey was along with Fred Crawford one of the main organisers of the gun running. I still have the air rifle as it was left to me when my grandfather died in 1972 and it still works.
My great grandfather was also a member of the UVF at this time before he served at the somme with the inniskilling fusiliers he was wounded and went on to fight the ira after the war with the RIC
As an Irishman from the republic I thoroughly enjoyed this video, I can appreciate the challenge of keeping an academic tone in a rather *cough* ... interesting ... part of history and I think (as usual) that you have done a very good job of presenting this in as neutral a tone as is possible.
In some circumstances in history taking a neutral tone is essentially siding with an aggressor. "Ghengis Khan had lots of legitimate reasons to depopulate entire nations!"
You can enjoy this and other sounds Ian makes if you follow this link: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IR7xZ0F-fAl5MA1GnCZv3fw1S3K39pnZkSvTMEEkr0Y/edit?usp=sharing Feel free to add any new sounds :)
History isn't that strange, least not locally. The thing that makes it taboo is the politics behind it. Ireland has quite a few older guns in hidden caches and collection. Guns like 1911's, S&W revolvers, Stens and Grease guns, not to mention the improve weaponry are still around but never cited due to clandestine nature of why they're here at all. Also considering the years cited in the vid an other world events if you add two and two together a lot of things make sense. 1914 was the outbreak of ww1, 1916 was the easter rising and 1921 Irish Free State came into being. Later during WW2 Ireland was technically neutral, but there was a lot of local unrest at the time which has largely been scrubbed from history, but the Free State would become the Republic or Ireland in 1948 leaving things much as the are now. The only shit show to come was in 1968, on the back of civil rights protests in Northern Ireland, were the Troubles which have now graceously ended over 25 years ago.
@@Arrowdodger A few stand out ones would be his visit to the British Arms Collection at the Tower of London where there were a number of impov pieces. Also the Terminator and Zip gun shooting vids were probably the two worst and most frustrating ones. Also love some of his more bombastic vids like the 4 bore vid, and Lahti and Solerthurn Anti tank rifle vids.
I enjoy Chinese/Khyber pass mystery pistols, as amusing as it is to mock the crude and inaccurate markings one can still appreciate what the craftspeople was trying to replicate. Often this is a pistol that looks like a 1911 or Mauser but operates by straight blowback, but my personal favourite is the Martini action pistol.
Definitely one of the best short descriptions I've heard. A succinct summary boiled down to get the facts across without being overly complicated or omitting much relevant information.
Yep it’s comforting to hear him talk so knowledgeably about something I’m very familiar with. Makes me more comfortable trusting his explanation of other historical periods (not that I didn’t trust him already). Great work as usual
@@N0BBYX I'm not a fan of the vast vast majority of weapons channels on TH-cam, they are geared to gun fetishists and are genuinely unhealthy but this channel is the exact opposite which is great
Peeler would have been the correct term for the time in Ireland I think. It's based off the name of the person who instituted them, Robert Peel. In London they called them Bobbies after the same person.
Just as an aside, the Mountjoy 2 was named after The Mountjoy, the ship which broke the boom across the Foyle, lifting the siege of Derry in 1689. Long folk memories in Ireland...
@@jonathangriffiths2499 The UK are still there, still witlessly messing it up. Apparently for historical reasons. Hopefully they'll get over themselves sometime.
Either a forgotten weapons or an inrangetv special on the weapons of the Easter rising/Irish war of independence/Irish civil war/1940s border campaign/the troubles/post troubles dissidents would be really very interesting. There’s such a fascinating mix of firearms involved from all over the world.
Alex Crawford I don’t know if they would be able to do something like that. Especially given the criteria for them was “does it shoot bullets”. They’ve probably made videos on the individual weapons already.
As an Ulsterman Ian I must say that was a very historically accurate account that is rarely given, thank you! Thoroughly enjoyed this video 😊 Sadly the story didn't end there
I know the Gewehr 88 isn't a great rifle compared to many of it's contemporaries. But I'll be damned if a classic bolt action with nice wooden furniture isn't a handsome piece.
@Roger Dodger Makes sense to me. British army has always trained men under the conditions they'll have to fight under. We never know when our lads need to engage in a war to liberate a brewery. 🤷🏻♂️
Not sure where you're from, but we used to have them in America too! Iraqvet8888 has a video where he details what a Flobert round is, and explains they were used in shooting ranges at bars and county fairs and shit
A number of years ago, in a german arms magazine i could read, that until the 1960s in some german inns there had been airguns on a mount (?)/ Stativ . In a corner there was a target with a hole, which was not much larger than the ball. It was difficult, to shoot a ball through the target hole, but after a sucessfull shot, you got a beer for free.
@@funnystuffenstufff Which part of the county? I might do the same when this poxy plague moves on. Must head to the war museum in the cathedral quarter too. It's amazing how much Ireland did in the two wars yet politics seems to want to forget.
@@sootyjim Its officially named Londonderry. Derry is an anglicisation of Daire (modern Doire) the old gaelic name. Unfortunately like everything in this part of the world people will happily fight and kill each other for using the wrong version of the name. If you are speaking to a protestant you might be best calling it Londonderry. To a catholic its Derry. If they call it Doire they are just looking for a fight, go to another pub. In all seriousness pretty much everyone calls it Derry these days, but some die-hards of the green and orange sides do still like to stir the shit.
They were doing construction in one of the towns in Northern Ireland recently (about 10 years ago or so) and they were removing a building to rebuild and as one of the walls fell a stockpile of old Vetterli rifles fell out from the building as it was being taken down and they just spilled down the rubble. They were rusted to hek but there was 100's of them. if i can find the source ill link it for you guys. Generally speaking youre probably not 10 - 20 miles from a Vetterli or some Gewehr in northern ireland haha. Some rifles are in almost factory new condition as they were stored in attics beside the chimney or wrapped in an old oil cloth.
@@thegael1996 Actually sir, it very much depends where you're looking, i was looking at a few about a 8 months ago or so give or take and they were sitting around 350 - 450 and in amazing condition, the cheapest was 200 (miss matching serial numbers). They are beautiful rifles and definitely draw the conversion way when people see them hanging up.
Alot of these and the other rifle would remain hidden around the North in old attics and barns some still being discovered until this day. Infact quite a few of these rifles would be taken out of storage to be used in gun battles with the IRA and Nationalists in the late 60s early 70s by the modern UVF along with the UDA/UFF and Red Hand Commandos. They would still be seen in loyalist arsenals and arms dumps right up until the 1990s. Infact the UVF splinter group the 'Loyalist Volunteer Force' (LVF) as late as 1999 as part of a ceasefire handed over 2 Steyr rifles from the 1914 gunrun to be decommissioned. Also the reason why the Vetterli is more common here is because it is an antique obsolete calibre rifle which it's completely legal to own freely with out any kind of firearms license.
My great Grandfather was an old IRA commander in the war of independence. He buried a load of weapons in his fields at the end of the war as he was anti treaty and knew the free state was coming for him, which they did and he was only saved from execution because of the cease fire. Interestingly he went on to join them in the LDF in 1940s during the emergency. Unfortunately weapons don't last long when they're buried and they were found decades later rusted and rotten to the point that nothing could ever be done with them.
For those interested in these historic weapons please note the following. Late last year a set of UVF and UPG (Ulster provisional Government) stamps (possibly original) was sold at auction making around £800. Already I have seen a Vetterli with the 1915 modification to calibre and magazine sold at auction complete with UVF and UPG stamps. It can not possibly have been a Larne Gun. There are what appear to be standard Gras bayonets on sale next week purporting to be Clyde Valley bayonets. Prices have risen significantly on all these items and the buyer really does now need to do his homework. I hope that this helps
The 10th (Irish) Division was amalgamated into the 16th (Irish) and 36th (Ulster) Divisions after being nearly wiped out at Gallipoli. In the summer of 1916, the 16th and 36th suffered heavy casualties during the Battle of the Somme and were largely wiped out in 1918 during the German Spring Offensive. So, the British used the Catholic and Protestant Irish as cannon fodder (as usual) and also got their revenge on the UVF for their pre-war mutiny.
In Northern Ireland ( Ulster ) Loyalists are militant British, Unionists are moderate British, Republicans are militant Irish and Nationalists are moderate Irish. Usually based around which branch of Christianity you belong to. It isn't unknown for a non-christian to be asked, " Ai, but are you a Catholic Muslim or a Protestant Muslim?"
I come from this part of Württemberg, which is called Alt (Old) Württemberg. In the Altwürttemberg part, protestantism was so hard, that Württemberg was called ,Protestantic Spain'.
It's really not based on religion, it's an ethnic conflict that is reasonably divided along religious lines, there are famously many protestants in the history of republican movement.
These and other rifles from that period of history are found on occasion. Sometimes restoration of church halls, Orange Lodge buildings etc reveals a stash hidden in the walls or floors
Probably a fair few still lying out in the countryside as well, relative of mine stumbled upon a ww1 era bayonet in the woods a few years ago, class mate of mine even found a hand grenade and brought it into school when I was a kid. I bet there's a good bit of hardware still hidden out there rotting away.
AardvarkLord weapons from this era arent found much these days. When an old cache gets discovered they usually contains a mis-match of shotguns, British military surplus, explosives and Eastern Bloc weapons.
Excellent short description of the situation at that time... I am a native Northern Irish man who studied that era along with other aspects of Irish history including partation and the civil war extensively a long time ago. Nice work Ian.
Before visiting Ireland and Northern Ireland a few years ago, I didn't know just how quite... complicated... their history was. Absolutely beautiful country though.
About a dozen years a friend of mine went to look at an old house near Ballymena with a view to buying it renovate and rent it, he found one of these rifles and cartridges hidden in the attic!
Ian: I think that rifle is rarer than it even appears. The rear stripper clip feed looks to be built up from weld and formed as opposed to welded on. This would make it a Gew 88/05/14 I believe. The way to tell is to drop the trigger guard. The enbloc to stripper clip conversion was more hastily done in the 14 with just a metal bar in the back of the well as opposed to a complete enclosure. I’m in Gilbert so now I have to drive up to Scottsdale and beg to look. The closest I’ve come to a 14 is a lone magazine housing I scored at a show.
I'd say you are dead-on right. I'm something of a fan of the 88, and honestly think that it's reputation is worse than it deserves to be. That's definitely been converted to Mauser charger loading and it's clearly not a run of the mill 88/05 like my small herd of 88's are.
Yea..looks iffy..a friend has an original Larne 88 that's been in his family from day 1 and it has no stamp.. I would guess very few have. Why would you have a bunch of rifles that the authorities are searching for stockpiled for stamping??
When I was eighteen years of age In Carsons army I engaged To fight for Ulster against home rule A mauser rifle was my tool On Covenant day my first parade When over half a million promised aid We go to fight the enemy now So we landed fifty thousand guns at Larne We go to fight the enemy now So we landed fifty thousand guns at Larne That April night i'll never forget Dispersing guns to face the threat Throught the length of our beloved land The die was cast, we made our stand But another foe was before us now Home rule was dead beneath the plough When across to France our divisions sailed Britain called we would not fail When across to France our divisions sailed Britain called we would not fail We were Gunrunners, Gunrunners So the storys told and its understood Of a charge that morning, Thiepval Wood When Ulsters flower their lives did give So that we at home could in freedom live Well alas I fell on the Sommes great shore But not alone there were thousands more From every street, town and dale A father, son or brother fell From every street, town or dale A father, son or brother fell They were Gunrunners, Gunrunners. Yes Gunrunners
Always one of my favourite ‘Platoon’ songs. I still have a commemorative plate from back in 1994 that celebrates the 80th anniversary of the gunrunning, which actually took place on my birthday.
I live in Bangor, my mum lives in Donaghadee, my grandfather signed the Ulster covenant and enlisted into the 36th Ulster division (UVF) in ww1, thankfully this crazy part of the world is relatively peaceful at present, I can only hope that neither side reverts to smuggling guns and murdering each other again.Thanks for the local interest video Ian!
Great precis of the Irish shipments. Only problem with that particular rifle being in the 1914 shipments is that the receiver is a Gew. 88/14 conversion, which is pretty rare in itself. 88/14s were produced beginning in October, 1914, about six months after The Clyde Valley’s trip. Hopefully, the stock does not match the action in this case.
My Great Grandfather was involved in the bringing of those rifles to Larne. He was a member of C Coy, 12th Battalion, 27th Regiment, 36th Ulster Division. Fought at the Somme and made it home. The history is what it is.
My great Grandfathers fought in the rebellion and some of my Great uncles served in the RA through the Troubles. I am so sorry what they did to NI we all deserve better than being at each others throats. I hope one day we will all see eye to eye however with our last General Election I am afraid with SF rising support we are getting further away. Fucking SF.
8:12 The Red Hand of Ulster badge was actually created by the House of Stuart. The cost of the Army establishment in Ireland was expensive and the areas outside Dublin were impossible to control. The idea was to set up a colony of Protestants in the Province of Ulster. Adventurers who raised money to pay the salaries of a platoon of troops for three years or gathered together a substantial group of Scottish 'colonists' received a patent of nobility and became the first Baronets of Ireland (1611/1619). The attributed coat of arms of the ancient Kings of Ulster was a Red right hand _erased_ ("shown cut off cleanly at the joint") and _apaume_ (a hand with its palm facing outwards) on a field of Yellow. This was later depicted in an _escutcheon_ ("small shield") as an enhancement on a coat of arms that indicated the bearer was a Baronet. It was also later awarded to the Baronets of Great Britain (1707) and Baronets of the United Kingdom (1801) and is called the Baronet's Badge in British heraldry.
Hope you get your hands on the Irish Volunteers Mauser 1871 "Howth guns" someday as it's another interesting story of Irish gun smuggling including buying the wrong bayonets which meant that they had to modify German Mausers to take French Gras bayonets.
Ah I've always wondered why the volunteer on the right was carrying a Lebel bayonet in his belt but not the Lebel rifle itself. (Charles Townsend Rising book captions it as such) www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fpolopoly_fs%2F1.1657475.1389923763!%2Fimage%2Fimage.jpg_gen%2Fderivatives%2Fratio_4x3_w1200%2Fimage.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fculture%2Fheritage%2Fnew-archive-tells-stories-of-ordinary-volunteers-in-easter-rising-1.1657476&tbnid=EDmAVbcJFyUxQM&vet=1&docid=qR8td379Xnul7M&w=1200&h=900&q=easter%20rising%20volunteers&hl=en-IE&source=sh%2Fx%2Fim
I've got a few books in my history section in my library on the Anglo-Irish War and whatnot, but none that are really good on just weapons history of this type. Any good resources?
The UVF also had Gras bayonets which where modified for the Gewher 1888, I believe the modification happened in Hamburg. They come up for auction now and again
I actually have studied this in history class in Ireland , which where I live. it is so to see one of these weapons which almost started a civil war in Ireland before ww1. So thank you ian for covering this gun.
A minor point. Ulster is 9 counties, But Northern Ireland constitutes 6 of those; County Down, Antrim, Armagh, Fermanagh, Tyrone and Londonderry/Derry. The three counties given back to the Free State were Donegal, Cavan and Louth. Also UVF really didn't smuggle anything for much the reasons you mention. While it wasn't sanctioned a hell of a lot was ignored. IRA did much more smuggling and is worth looking into as well. IRA arms are harder to come by due to greater covert activity. As for the towns the one you mispronounced was Donaghadee (Don-a-ga-dee). They are one the easter seaboard orbiting Belfast Lough. Larne is North of Belfast and a major sea port, while Bangor and Donaghadee were in North Down and east of Belfast lough. Both are minor ports for local fishing and marina. A final point IRB and IRA are the nationalist force of the time, but like the UVF took a similar turn in the late 60's early 70's when the period known as the Troubles began. It is the last great unrest before the current peace started (officially) in 94 and was ratified in 98.
@@donnchaodalaigh4031 British " gave" the Free State 6 out of 9 Ulster counties to guarantee a majority of Unionists in the remaining "Ulster statelet. The fake statelet remains in tact to this day because of that gerrymander. British diplomacy at the barrel of a gun.
Well I never. I'm from Belfast northern Ireland and I never thought I would see a gun from my history on your channel. And the raised hand is the red hand of Ulster. There is a we story about it my old da told me.
There was a great deal of support in the British Army for the Ulsterites. Many of the officers threatened to resign rather than serve in suppressing them. If WW1 had taken place a year later it could have been embarrassing for the British.
The IRA had 11mm Mauser Gewehr 71s ( _SS Asgard_ landing of July, 1914). The Mausers were landed at Howth and became known as "Howth Rifles". They were nicknamed "elephant guns" for their huge bore and heavy recoil. A shipment of Mosin-Nagant 91s captured by the Germans from the Russians was seized in 1916 ( _SS Aud_ landing of 1916).
Glad to see the comments section isn't a complete mess yet. I work i cross community and cross border peace work and still can be a civil gun nerd :) There are many people who have a poor understanding of their history here on this island
The thing is everyone loves to talk shit especially anonymously (and me in particular!) but I've gone out of my way to help "protestants/unionists" get jobs here alongside me here in Australia
Pleasantly surprised at such a well researched piece on the complex subject of Irish military history from the US...good work. A feature on the iconic "Howth Mauser" rifles smuggled in by nationalists in 1916 would be a nice addition. :-)
This made me read up on Icelandic history on Wikipedia. Iceland was actually ruled by Denmark until the mid-20th century. I didn't know that. Which, seeing as I am Scandinavian myself, is rather embarassing.
Lol this comment section should be interesting. Quite the sensitive topic where I’m from, some people take all this very close to heart. But hey, keep the vids coming, doing some great work Ian!
Ah, a good friendly ribbing between neighbouring countries. You send me a nail bomb, I kneecap one of your son...good old fashion family fun. Who else is going to perpetuate the quarreling of our great grandfathers if not us? 🤷🏻♂️
I would like to make a snide comment about the ireland controversy and the bloodshed, but in reality its only a microcosm of the whole problem of in the words of hiram maxim or I think his friend, “the europeans love killing eachother so much we could do a lot of selling from that..” History speaks for itself
In 1912 a home rule bill England did impose And so Lord Carson he did raise an army to oppose But off to France our boys were sent and Carson he did say Go take our sons and tell the huns that we are on our way A lot of the things Ian said were written in this song I heard about a decade ago.
Great grandad was in the 36th Ulster Division and was wounded at the Somme. He recovered and was wounded again in 1917. So at 18, he was a war veteran. (very proud of his actions) He went on to serve in the Navy as an engineer in WW2 and survived. He died in 1978. (all medals, papers and news article as proof) As for the pronunciation for Donaghadee it's pronounced Donica a dee. Larne and Bangor you got spot on @Ian Went actually through these places today on my motorbike to Ballyhalbert
You should see if you can get your hands on some of the more modern imports ie: 1979 - 1972 when areas of Derry and Belfast were barricaded by the IRA. They had AR18's mostly but also AK's, RPG's and even a few FN rifles. To be honest most of them are still there plus a few more modern imports from the Balkans.
Ian, you navigated some very treacherous historic waters there with skill and tact. The last person to do that was Queen Elizabeth II when she visited the Republic of Ireland about 10 years ago. She made a great job of it despite a lot of dinosaurs in the North and South just waiting to be offended so they could spout their tired old righteous indignation.
Playing neutral between invader and invaded is not actually being neutral, it's supporting the invader. The reason it seems so civil is that the reality of English expansionism in Ireland is so brutal that actually talking about the true character of the conflict makes any given conversation uncomfortable.
Great video, put forward all the key historic points really well. Remember my dad saying was offered one of these rifles years ago by a neighbour who's parents had like 50 of them stashed in the thatched roof of their cottage.
The historic point that was omitted was genocide. A genocide that was the blueprint for the Holodomor that created the Russian colony in Ukraine that Russia is using to expand today. Take that out of the equation and the Anglo-Irish conflict is much easier to equivocate.
Thanks Ian, a good explanation of how the UVF got guns into Ireland. Interestingly both members of the UVF and the Irish Volunteer Force (nationalist equivalent of the UVF) joined the British army at the start of the First World War. Both divisions acquitted themselves well in what turned out to be a blood bath of a conflict.
That’s an GEW 88/14 with the welded on charger/stripper clip guides, and modified magazine no longer requiring the en bloc clip. Even without the UVF markings, that is a very, very rare rifle. Much, much rarer than the 88/05 or even an unmodified Gew 1888.
My Grandfather was original UVF. Ended up going to France soon after the Ulster Divisions were formed. Got through without a scratch. Also a quite a valued member of the Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers Football team. A lot of his division were from the south as well. And the difference between the Original UVF and the 60's-present UVF is the most recent one are literally a terrorist group. Comments are... predictably... full of people who have no idea what they're talking about. Great video though!
I grew up in Bangor, one of the towns you refer to, from where Larne can be seen on a good day. The story I knew was the UVF realised they weren't going to be forced into an Irish Republic, so they sold a lot of these weapons off, some of them in Abyssinia. When Mussolini invaded that country in 1935, he couldn't understand the "For God and Ulster" stamp on the butt, but I don't know how true it is...
@Frankthetank123098 I live in scotland and this morass of comments is just going to get steadily worse and worse trust me. This isn't light hearted banter.
Great episode Ian. In all seriousness I imagine something like this happened: Danish customs: Where are you taking your boatload of clandestine firearms? Gunrunning captain: Ehh.. Ireland Danish customs: Where's that? In the Atlantic? Must be Iceland. Btw a real nice example of when provenance makes all the difference. As a former museumguy, a hill I'm willing to die on - figuratively speaking - is that it's not the artifact itself that makes the exhibition, it's the stories attached to it. Just showing off an artifact or a collection in itself, is never going to make much of an impression.
Might have had a regular route that led it to several ports in a row. Ireland-Germany-Denkmark for example. And if you are smuggling, using a regular ship that routinely goes for this route might be less suspicious than chartering one that goes directly from Germany to Ireland
To clarify, the guns were purchased from a dealer in Hamburg, but shipped from Kiel into the Baltic. Why they did not take a shorter route into the North Sea I don't know.
Forgotten Weapons thanks for the clarification. That makes sense, although still an odd choice to sail around Denmark rather than through the Kiel canal
@@zigzog7 I'd have to look it up, but in this case I suspect the fee for the canal might be an issue. Might have been cheaper to go through the Baltic.
I remember being in the crowd, addressed by Ian Paisley, on the dockside of Larne in 1968/9, when to great fanfare the Clyde Valley was brought back to Northern Ireland. It later went to the scrap yards to be dismantled. Before I left NI I was fortunate enough to come into possession of one of the Martini Henry,s which were brought on the same ship.
As far as I understand it the RIC (police force) had strong unionist leanings so they might have done an extra super time wasting check of the coal ship knowing there was no guns on it.
The RIC were mostly Catholic so although I would say that the rank and file were happy enough with Ireland being part of the UK I wouldn't say that they had a strong unionist leaning.
the royal Ulster constabulary was post partition. the section of the RIC in Ulster was mostly made up of unionists, which then went on to form the ruc post partition. Most of the RICs senior leadership also had a unionist leaning as they were appointed by the British administration in Dublin castle.
I believe the unionist logic at the time was import the guns illegally to fight the British decision on home rule to show loyalty. genius. Churchill also had a seriously glossed over side by the British. He came up with the black and tans and the entire Gallipoli campaign was his idea
The U.V.F then went out to fight on the fields of the Somme and a lot of men from Ulster lost their lives for the crown. Not forgetting the Irish Catholics who fought for the crown.
Both sides fought in the 1st World War hoping to achieve their aims. Neither side would get quite what they hoped for. Thats why the Irish and Ulster Divisions exist
No, but shamefully Devalera failed to appreciate the sacrifice Irish Catholics made. If WW1 failed to teach us anything is that one should learn the folly of politics and avoid it like the plague. BTW Extra history has an interesting series on the 1918 pandemic. Oddly apt given events today.
Would be an awesome video if you did the entire history of Irish rebellion with footage of different firearms used there. Ive always been fascinated with the firearms that sneak their way into conflicts. Such as Vietnam, Syria, and of course Ireland.
During my grandfathers life he was in the UVF, the B specials, the Royal Irish Rifles were he fought on the Somme amongst other places, and the Home Guard during the second world war, it was him that inspired me to also serve my country. After he died at a ripe old age I still remember my father removing several pistols and rifles that had been shall we say overlooked from the roofspace of my grandparents home bringing them to a local river stripping the working parts and throwing them in.
A large percentage of the pre 1914 UVF boyos did indeed join the British Army, primarily the 36th (Ulster) division. Very, very few of them returned. The 36th was one of the only units to take their objectives on the first day on the Somme in 1916...but were slaughtered doing it. 5,500 KIA, WIA or missing in two days essentially destroyed the unit, and it was rebuilt with British conscripts.
Tactful handling of what continues to be a very emotive issue today. Interesting to note that the first group to arm themselves in opposition to what was the lawful government at the time, in the period that would eventuality lead to Irish independence, were "loyal" unionists, not the IRB/IRA. The army refused to move on the gun running, even though they knew it was happening. Contrast that with the situation in 1914, when Nationalists, in response to the Larne gun running, imported guns to Howth near Dublin. The army missed them and returning from Howth, frustrated, opened fire and massacred a civilian crowd on Bachelor's Walk in Dublin city centre.
These are still being found today. A few dozen were uncovered in an Orange Hall a few years ago in Belfast. My granny also smuggled one in a pram in the early days of the troubles lol.
When the modern day UVF were decommissioning their arms as part of the peace process they allowed the cameras record the destruction of the first couple of rifles. This was unusual as the other paramilitarys including the (Provisional) IRA insisted that their decommissioning be done without any cameras present. The reason seems to have been an attempt to associate the modern UVF with the old UVF. The first two rifles decommissioned were a modern assault rifle and one of those old rifles from the 1914 Larne Gun running. It seemed a pity to cut up an historic artifact which could have found a home in some museum but symbolism is important to all sides in Northern Ireland.
Excellent nugget of info. I hasn’t heard of that before. But certainly has a ring of Ulster symbolism. Unrelated, in 1998/99 Aer Lingus received 6 new aircraft, all 6 were given Ulster saints names to honour the GFA.
@@Mugdorna Hi Mugdorna. If it was now there would be ejits saying those aircraft should not be called after Christian saints because diversity or something. Most of the readers wont know what the GFA is, it is the "Good Friday Agreement". The two main communities in Northern Ireland (or " the north of Ireland" or the "six counties" all subtle codes) cannot even agree on the name of the agreement . The Unionists call it the "Belfast Agreement". A lot of people from both sides look for reasons to stay apart . It would put years on you.
This is why I watch this channel history and/or interesting engineering. Can you imagine I never ever shot a gun in my whole life but I watched probably a 1000 videos of Forgotten Weapons?
German rifles (this fits more to the Mauser systems from the 1890's) were the kalashnikov of the early 20th century: no matter where the conflict happened, no matter if rebel or soldier, they were present.
@@jkkennedy9280 I believe you're getting two events mixed up, look up the howth gun running. A larger shipment of Russian arms from Germany was intercepted just before the rising
I know you briefly covered some of the improvised weapons used in the troubles but itll be pretty cool of you could do detailed videos on them individually or cover all of them in one video
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I can't believe that you haven't heard of MILF (Militant Icelandic Liberation Front)!
There is/was a MILF terrorist group in the Philippines.
I thought they rebranded to the Badgers, or was it the other way round?
Then all those MILF videos I've been watching are wrong?
Imagine the MILF forces aboard the Fanny boat preparing an atack on the danish coast.
They even have a secret weapon. Google "Rekjavik handshake" Not porn. Word of honor.
Ian checked under his car the morning after releasing this video.
Ahahaha lol
@_jeff _ The Irish paramilitaries take out a gun wielding Jesus? No chance!
Danes: Stop right there, we know you're smuggling weapons out of the country to help Icelandic Independence!
Smugglers: No no this is going to the Irish to combat their Independence
Danes: Oh shit fam, that's all you had to say
Don't call them irish
@@benkeane365 Except when they join the Royal Irish Regiment.With Irish wolfhounds.With a gaelic motto. With ceremonial bowls of shamrock on St.Patricks day. *Edit!* Or when they score a trip to The White House on St.Patricks day. Or when they get Irish passports for visa free travel in the EU!
GreenManAiming Not Irish. Northern Irish.
@@provablegrub4581 Nonsense, they're still Irish
Rabh I was wrong in how I said. Catholics would probably consider themselves Irish; Protestants would probably consider themselves British.
My Grandfather, along with his two brothers, was one of those landing the guns in Donaghadee, he was 15 at the time. In September 1914 he joined the 13th Battalion Royal Irish Rifles and went on to serve in the Somme then becoming a Scout Sniper being awarded a gallantry certificate in 1918 at Ypres.
He continued target shooting using a Gem air rifle sold by RJ Adgey of Belfast (the rifle is marked RJ Adgey Belfast) Adgey was along with Fred Crawford one of the main organisers of the gun running. I still have the air rifle as it was left to me when my grandfather died in 1972 and it still works.
That’s a great family story. Hello from South Armagh.
My own great grandfather fought in Flanders with the 16th Irish Division.
He never made it home.
My great grandfather was also a member of the UVF at this time before he served at the somme with the inniskilling fusiliers he was wounded and went on to fight the ira after the war with the RIC
@@charliederrick1583👎👎👎👎
And they all lived happily ever after.
Well actually no,
Narrator voice- "But they didn't live happily ever after...."
Two words: Boundary Commission.
So, "Guns of the militant Icelandic independence movement" video, when?
Free Iceland! 😢
Iceland is Danish land
Make Denmark great again
Masacre in the frozen seafood isle.
Or on the invasion of iceland, which cane out with 1 british casualty. A dude killed himself on the way over.
@sman7290 ...who needs guns when you have Hákarl
As an Irishman from the republic I thoroughly enjoyed this video, I can appreciate the challenge of keeping an academic tone in a rather *cough* ... interesting ... part of history and I think (as usual) that you have done a very good job of presenting this in as neutral a tone as is possible.
In some circumstances in history taking a neutral tone is essentially siding with an aggressor. "Ghengis Khan had lots of legitimate reasons to depopulate entire nations!"
Favourite part, the impression of the ship’s captain going “wah wah”.
Kappa you Brits
Meme culture 1914 style
6:46
You can enjoy this and other sounds Ian makes if you follow this link:
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IR7xZ0F-fAl5MA1GnCZv3fw1S3K39pnZkSvTMEEkr0Y/edit?usp=sharing
Feel free to add any new sounds :)
I'm sure it was historically accurate.
This the best kind of videos on FW. Normal, well-known, mundane weapons. But with some strange history that I wouldn't hear otherwise.
check out C&Rsenal
History isn't that strange, least not locally. The thing that makes it taboo is the politics behind it. Ireland has quite a few older guns in hidden caches and collection. Guns like 1911's, S&W revolvers, Stens and Grease guns, not to mention the improve weaponry are still around but never cited due to clandestine nature of why they're here at all. Also considering the years cited in the vid an other world events if you add two and two together a lot of things make sense. 1914 was the outbreak of ww1, 1916 was the easter rising and 1921 Irish Free State came into being. Later during WW2 Ireland was technically neutral, but there was a lot of local unrest at the time which has largely been scrubbed from history, but the Free State would become the Republic or Ireland in 1948 leaving things much as the are now. The only shit show to come was in 1968, on the back of civil rights protests in Northern Ireland, were the Troubles which have now graceously ended over 25 years ago.
I think my favorites are "gun so bad or trashy that even the usually polite Ian mocks them horrendously", like the Lady's Home Companion.
@@Arrowdodger A few stand out ones would be his visit to the British Arms Collection at the Tower of London where there were a number of impov pieces. Also the Terminator and Zip gun shooting vids were probably the two worst and most frustrating ones. Also love some of his more bombastic vids like the 4 bore vid, and Lahti and Solerthurn Anti tank rifle vids.
I enjoy Chinese/Khyber pass mystery pistols, as amusing as it is to mock the crude and inaccurate markings one can still appreciate what the craftspeople was trying to replicate.
Often this is a pistol that looks like a 1911 or Mauser but operates by straight blowback, but my personal favourite is the Martini action pistol.
Ian McCollum just gave an excellent synopsis of the Home Rule Crisis which led to the gun running. He knows his history.
Definitely one of the best short descriptions I've heard. A succinct summary boiled down to get the facts across without being overly complicated or omitting much relevant information.
@@michaelathens953 Too many rabbit holes he could have fallen down. Christ our history is awkward.
Yep it’s comforting to hear him talk so knowledgeably about something I’m very familiar with. Makes me more comfortable trusting his explanation of other historical periods (not that I didn’t trust him already). Great work as usual
@@N0BBYX I'm not a fan of the vast vast majority of weapons channels on TH-cam, they are geared to gun fetishists and are genuinely unhealthy but this channel is the exact opposite which is great
@@danlugo4365 I think the "secret" might be that it is more of a history channel, that simply focuses on weapons. Same reason I like C&Rsenal.
"Guess that didn't go so well for you copper" this has been one of my favourite videos in a while. Excellent as always
Peeler would have been the correct term for the time in Ireland I think. It's based off the name of the person who instituted them, Robert Peel. In London they called them Bobbies after the same person.
@@MrGeorocksit is still very common to call the cops “peelers” here in Belfast :)
I’m listening to this and my home town of Donaghadee gets a mention - wasn’t expecting that
Phil Lowry Lovely seaside town is is too. Was there a few times as a kid in the 1980s
Literally the same, I grew up there and I cringed so hard listening to the brutal misprounciation of our humble Dee by the sea
Aye didn’t see that one coming like. Maybe Millisle will get a mention one of these days
Yeah, Aunt worked in a holiday home/orphanage between there and Millisle, as kids we visited every year in the late 70's.
LOL he never got the pronunciation quite right, although Shankill on sea is pretty apt lol!
Just as an aside, the Mountjoy 2 was named after The Mountjoy, the ship which broke the boom across the Foyle, lifting the siege of Derry in 1689. Long folk memories in Ireland...
Many are victims of a history they seem unable to move on from
too long, they need to get over it.
cool factoid!
@@jonathangriffiths2499 The UK are still there, still witlessly messing it up. Apparently for historical reasons. Hopefully they'll get over themselves sometime.
"For God and Ulster Derry's Walls and No Surrender"
Either a forgotten weapons or an inrangetv special on the weapons of the Easter rising/Irish war of independence/Irish civil war/1940s border campaign/the troubles/post troubles dissidents would be really very interesting. There’s such a fascinating mix of firearms involved from all over the world.
Alex Crawford I don’t know if they would be able to do something like that. Especially given the criteria for them was “does it shoot bullets”. They’ve probably made videos on the individual weapons already.
@T A yeah I was going to say, it would be a horror show of unionists v nationalists with Americans who think they're irish thrown in.
As an Ulsterman Ian I must say that was a very historically accurate account that is rarely given, thank you! Thoroughly enjoyed this video 😊 Sadly the story didn't end there
>Norn Iron username
breh
Only American I have ever heard get it right!
No Surrender brer 🇬🇧🇬🇧
@@jsck5198 As Ian said, wah wah
I wish Ian had continued with the history lesson but I'm sure Ulstermen battle hardened in WW1 and 2 greatly helped the UDF
I know the Gewehr 88 isn't a great rifle compared to many of it's contemporaries. But I'll be damned if a classic bolt action with nice wooden furniture isn't a handsome piece.
Never thought I would see a forgotten weapons video that has Ian mention my home town of Bangor haha
"Bangor boats away..."
Gun ranges in bars? HOW DARE IRELAND OUT FREEDOM US!
This was quite common in the UK as well after the Boer war.
My old shooting range had a bar. Yes this was also in California in the mid 90s.
@Roger Dodger Makes sense to me. British army has always trained men under the conditions they'll have to fight under. We never know when our lads need to engage in a war to liberate a brewery. 🤷🏻♂️
Not sure where you're from, but we used to have them in America too! Iraqvet8888 has a video where he details what a Flobert round is, and explains they were used in shooting ranges at bars and county fairs and shit
A number of years ago, in a german arms magazine i could read, that until the 1960s in some german inns there had been airguns on a mount (?)/ Stativ . In a corner there was a target with a hole, which was not much larger than the ball. It was difficult, to shoot a ball through the target hole, but after a sucessfull shot, you got a beer for free.
Working at the Somme Museum in Co. Down, I'm no stranger to these uvf weapons. Keep em coming. We've a few martinis, manlichers and commission rifles.
Is that the one in Bangor? Co. Down native here too. Would like to visit some time 😊
@@funnystuffenstufff go visit. They have an excellent collection and balanced explanation of activities from both sides without hyperbole
I love your museum. Superb resource.
Plan to visit myself. Belfast lad here
@@funnystuffenstufff Which part of the county? I might do the same when this poxy plague moves on. Must head to the war museum in the cathedral quarter too. It's amazing how much Ireland did in the two wars yet politics seems to want to forget.
"Mountjoy 2" is a very tongue-in-cheek (and somewhat ballsy) name for a ship given the role of the original Mountjoy in the Seige of Derry 1689...
Londonderry?
@@sootyjim no derry
@@sootyjim Doire.
@@sootyjim Its officially named Londonderry. Derry is an anglicisation of Daire (modern Doire) the old gaelic name. Unfortunately like everything in this part of the world people will happily fight and kill each other for using the wrong version of the name. If you are speaking to a protestant you might be best calling it Londonderry. To a catholic its Derry. If they call it Doire they are just looking for a fight, go to another pub. In all seriousness pretty much everyone calls it Derry these days, but some die-hards of the green and orange sides do still like to stir the shit.
@@sootyjim It's a really interesting name linguistically. Londonderry is the only word in the english language to start with 6 silent letters.
They were doing construction in one of the towns in Northern Ireland recently (about 10 years ago or so) and they were removing a building to rebuild and as one of the walls fell a stockpile of old Vetterli rifles fell out from the building as it was being taken down and they just spilled down the rubble. They were rusted to hek but there was 100's of them. if i can find the source ill link it for you guys. Generally speaking youre probably not 10 - 20 miles from a Vetterli or some Gewehr in northern ireland haha. Some rifles are in almost factory new condition as they were stored in attics beside the chimney or wrapped in an old oil cloth.
Dying to get a UVF veterli or a IV Howth gun. But they're all quite expensive now.
@@thegael1996 Actually sir, it very much depends where you're looking, i was looking at a few about a 8 months ago or so give or take and they were sitting around 350 - 450 and in amazing condition, the cheapest was 200 (miss matching serial numbers). They are beautiful rifles and definitely draw the conversion way when people see them hanging up.
Alot of these and the other rifle would remain hidden around the North in old attics and barns some still being discovered until this day. Infact quite a few of these rifles would be taken out of storage to be used in gun battles with the IRA and Nationalists in the late 60s early 70s by the modern UVF along with the UDA/UFF and Red Hand Commandos. They would still be seen in loyalist arsenals and arms dumps right up until the 1990s. Infact the UVF splinter group the 'Loyalist Volunteer Force' (LVF) as late as 1999 as part of a ceasefire handed over 2 Steyr rifles from the 1914 gunrun to be decommissioned.
Also the reason why the Vetterli is more common here is because it is an antique obsolete calibre rifle which it's completely legal to own freely with out any kind of firearms license.
I'm sure the vitali can still be fired if the owner is resourceful enough
@@CenlaSelfDefenseConcepts It would have to be registered as a firearm then and licensed.
My great Grandfather was an old IRA commander in the war of independence. He buried a load of weapons in his fields at the end of the war as he was anti treaty and knew the free state was coming for him, which they did and he was only saved from execution because of the cease fire. Interestingly he went on to join them in the LDF in 1940s during the emergency. Unfortunately weapons don't last long when they're buried and they were found decades later rusted and rotten to the point that nothing could ever be done with them.
I believe there was a mark 4 revolver and lee enfield.
ActionGenesis not to all now
For those interested in these historic weapons please note the following. Late last year a set of UVF and UPG (Ulster provisional Government) stamps (possibly original) was sold at auction making around £800. Already I have seen a Vetterli with the 1915 modification to calibre and magazine sold at auction complete with UVF and UPG stamps. It can not possibly have been a Larne Gun. There are what appear to be standard Gras bayonets on sale next week purporting to be Clyde Valley bayonets. Prices have risen significantly on all these items and the buyer really does now need to do his homework. I hope that this helps
The 10th (Irish) Division was amalgamated into the 16th (Irish) and 36th (Ulster) Divisions after being nearly wiped out at Gallipoli. In the summer of 1916, the 16th and 36th suffered heavy casualties during the Battle of the Somme and were largely wiped out in 1918 during the German Spring Offensive.
So, the British used the Catholic and Protestant Irish as cannon fodder (as usual) and also got their revenge on the UVF for their pre-war mutiny.
Very true
Never thought I’d see a video about the Larne Gun Running, the town that I’m from. Absolutely surreal
The only good thing about Larne is the road out of it :P
@@wonderloaf your not wrong
@@wonderloaf 100% true
@@wonderloaf Yeah, beautiful scenery.
wonderloaf. Well said. Even the UFF there are actually RC!!
In Northern Ireland ( Ulster ) Loyalists are militant British, Unionists are moderate British, Republicans are militant Irish and Nationalists are moderate Irish. Usually based around which branch of Christianity you belong to. It isn't unknown for a non-christian to be asked, " Ai, but are you a Catholic Muslim or a Protestant Muslim?"
and if you answer the wrong one to the wrong person you'd be in trouble for it,
Live in County Down can confirm
I come from this part of Württemberg, which is called Alt (Old) Württemberg. In the Altwürttemberg part, protestantism was so hard, that Württemberg was called ,Protestantic Spain'.
In Iraq and Syria it's, "Are you a Shiite or a Sunni?"
It's really not based on religion, it's an ethnic conflict that is reasonably divided along religious lines, there are famously many protestants in the history of republican movement.
The raised hand was part of the crest for the O'Neill's Of Ulster. Also Known as the red hand of Ulster :o}
It's the oldest known Gaelic symbol
‘mon the Red Hand!!
@@Rabhadh It's kind of ironic the loyalists use it.
@@Kirealta actually loyalist and nationalists use it!
@@Kirealta Also ironic that they use latin mottos, given that they hate the papacy.
I wonder how many of these guns are still floating around Ireland, their owners having died in the Great War and the guns having passed to relatives.
These and other rifles from that period of history are found on occasion. Sometimes restoration of church halls, Orange Lodge buildings etc reveals a stash hidden in the walls or floors
Probably a fair few still lying out in the countryside as well, relative of mine stumbled upon a ww1 era bayonet in the woods a few years ago, class mate of mine even found a hand grenade and brought it into school when I was a kid. I bet there's a good bit of hardware still hidden out there rotting away.
There where still in use in the late 60's an early 70's, this lead to a large mismatch in weapons, the PIRA had by then lots of AR-18's.
AardvarkLord weapons from this era arent found much these days. When an old cache gets discovered they usually contains a mis-match of shotguns, British military surplus, explosives and Eastern Bloc weapons.
I'd say there are still thousands of rifles burried around Ireland.
Excellent short description of the situation at that time... I am a native Northern Irish man who studied that era along with other aspects of Irish history including partation and the civil war extensively a long time ago. Nice work Ian.
Before visiting Ireland and Northern Ireland a few years ago, I didn't know just how quite... complicated... their history was. Absolutely beautiful country though.
About a dozen years a friend of mine went to look at an old house near Ballymena with a view to buying it renovate and rent it, he found one of these rifles and cartridges hidden in the attic!
Ian: I think that rifle is rarer than it even appears. The rear stripper clip feed looks to be built up from weld and formed as opposed to welded on. This would make it a Gew 88/05/14 I believe. The way to tell is to drop the trigger guard. The enbloc to stripper clip conversion was more hastily done in the 14 with just a metal bar in the back of the well as opposed to a complete enclosure. I’m in Gilbert so now I have to drive up to Scottsdale and beg to look. The closest I’ve come to a 14 is a lone magazine housing I scored at a show.
I'd say you are dead-on right. I'm something of a fan of the 88, and honestly think that it's reputation is worse than it deserves to be. That's definitely been converted to Mauser charger loading and it's clearly not a run of the mill 88/05 like my small herd of 88's are.
Yea..looks iffy..a friend has an original Larne 88 that's been in his family from day 1 and it has no stamp.. I would guess very few have. Why would you have a bunch of rifles that the authorities are searching for stockpiled for stamping??
When I was eighteen years of age
In Carsons army I engaged
To fight for Ulster against home rule
A mauser rifle was my tool
On Covenant day my first parade
When over half a million promised aid
We go to fight the enemy now
So we landed fifty thousand guns at Larne
We go to fight the enemy now
So we landed fifty thousand guns at Larne
That April night i'll never forget
Dispersing guns to face the threat
Throught the length of our beloved land
The die was cast, we made our stand
But another foe was before us now
Home rule was dead beneath the plough
When across to France our divisions sailed
Britain called we would not fail
When across to France our divisions sailed
Britain called we would not fail
We were Gunrunners, Gunrunners
So the storys told and its understood
Of a charge that morning, Thiepval Wood
When Ulsters flower their lives did give
So that we at home could in freedom live
Well alas I fell on the Sommes great shore
But not alone there were thousands more
From every street, town and dale
A father, son or brother fell
From every street, town or dale
A father, son or brother fell
They were Gunrunners, Gunrunners. Yes Gunrunners
Always one of my favourite ‘Platoon’ songs. I still have a commemorative plate from back in 1994 that celebrates the 80th anniversary of the gunrunning, which actually took place on my birthday.
as an irish fan of this channel - one of the best videos yet. great work, keep it up
I live in Bangor, my mum lives in Donaghadee, my grandfather signed the Ulster covenant and enlisted into the 36th Ulster division (UVF) in ww1, thankfully this crazy part of the world is relatively peaceful at present, I can only hope that neither side reverts to smuggling guns and murdering each other again.Thanks for the local interest video Ian!
They could maybe do us a favour and blow up Queens Parade so it could finally be rebuilt lol
they should blow up the marina while they’re at it. Such a mistake.
@@dan-860 Did we just become best friends?!
Wonder if we could gun run some dynamite in lol
I really like this type of video where he just speaks about the history of a specific example of a firearm rather than the firearm in general
My grandfathers people were heavily involved in the Easter rising and are proud of it. Thank you for doing a video on this.
Great precis of the Irish shipments. Only problem with that particular rifle being in the 1914 shipments is that the receiver is a Gew. 88/14 conversion, which is pretty rare in itself. 88/14s were produced beginning in October, 1914, about six months after The Clyde Valley’s trip. Hopefully, the stock does not match the action in this case.
My Great Grandfather was involved in the bringing of those rifles to Larne. He was a member of C Coy, 12th Battalion, 27th Regiment, 36th Ulster Division. Fought at the Somme and made it home. The history is what it is.
What Regiment? As the British army didn't use regimental numbers after the childers reforms iirc.
@@laxityazathoth1423 Inniskilling Fusiliers
@Ben Woodcock I live here (NI) man. The vast majority of folks here just want to move on from it. Ergo, it's history.
@Ben Woodcock ah yeah no argument there mate.
My great Grandfathers fought in the rebellion and some of my Great uncles served in the RA through the Troubles. I am so sorry what they did to NI we all deserve better than being at each others throats. I hope one day we will all see eye to eye however with our last General Election I am afraid with SF rising support we are getting further away. Fucking SF.
8:12 The Red Hand of Ulster badge was actually created by the House of Stuart. The cost of the Army establishment in Ireland was expensive and the areas outside Dublin were impossible to control. The idea was to set up a colony of Protestants in the Province of Ulster. Adventurers who raised money to pay the salaries of a platoon of troops for three years or gathered together a substantial group of Scottish 'colonists' received a patent of nobility and became the first Baronets of Ireland (1611/1619).
The attributed coat of arms of the ancient Kings of Ulster was a Red right hand _erased_ ("shown cut off cleanly at the joint") and _apaume_ (a hand with its palm facing outwards) on a field of Yellow. This was later depicted in an _escutcheon_ ("small shield") as an enhancement on a coat of arms that indicated the bearer was a Baronet. It was also later awarded to the Baronets of Great Britain (1707) and Baronets of the United Kingdom (1801) and is called the Baronet's Badge in British heraldry.
For an Ulster man like me this was fascinating. We forgive you for the mispronunciation of " Donaghadee"!
You part of the red hand mate.
Wouldn't say that, like most people here I've no interest in politics and just want to live in peace.
@@johnwhite9760 then peace be with you.
Thanks Robert.
Hope you get your hands on the Irish Volunteers Mauser 1871 "Howth guns" someday as it's another interesting story of Irish gun smuggling including buying the wrong bayonets which meant that they had to modify German Mausers to take French Gras bayonets.
Ah I've always wondered why the volunteer on the right was carrying a Lebel bayonet in his belt but not the Lebel rifle itself. (Charles Townsend Rising book captions it as such)
www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fpolopoly_fs%2F1.1657475.1389923763!%2Fimage%2Fimage.jpg_gen%2Fderivatives%2Fratio_4x3_w1200%2Fimage.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fculture%2Fheritage%2Fnew-archive-tells-stories-of-ordinary-volunteers-in-easter-rising-1.1657476&tbnid=EDmAVbcJFyUxQM&vet=1&docid=qR8td379Xnul7M&w=1200&h=900&q=easter%20rising%20volunteers&hl=en-IE&source=sh%2Fx%2Fim
He has a video on the 1871 itself, if anyone's curious: th-cam.com/video/uAi-mpRluBA/w-d-xo.html
I've got a few books in my history section in my library on the Anglo-Irish War and whatnot, but none that are really good on just weapons history of this type. Any good resources?
Or one of the early Thompson submachine guns. First time it was fired in anger was in Ireland in 1921.
The UVF also had Gras bayonets which where modified for the Gewher 1888, I believe the modification happened in Hamburg. They come up for auction now and again
the couple of times you have dealt with Irish history you have done a remarkably good job.
I actually have studied this in history class in Ireland , which where I live. it is so to see one of these weapons which almost started a civil war in Ireland before ww1. So thank you ian for covering this gun.
A minor point. Ulster is 9 counties, But Northern Ireland constitutes 6 of those; County Down, Antrim, Armagh, Fermanagh, Tyrone and Londonderry/Derry. The three counties given back to the Free State were Donegal, Cavan and Louth. Also UVF really didn't smuggle anything for much the reasons you mention. While it wasn't sanctioned a hell of a lot was ignored. IRA did much more smuggling and is worth looking into as well. IRA arms are harder to come by due to greater covert activity. As for the towns the one you mispronounced was Donaghadee (Don-a-ga-dee). They are one the easter seaboard orbiting Belfast Lough. Larne is North of Belfast and a major sea port, while Bangor and Donaghadee were in North Down and east of Belfast lough. Both are minor ports for local fishing and marina. A final point IRB and IRA are the nationalist force of the time, but like the UVF took a similar turn in the late 60's early 70's when the period known as the Troubles began. It is the last great unrest before the current peace started (officially) in 94 and was ratified in 98.
Liked your post so sorry for being pedantic and suggesting an edit. Monaghan is part of ulster not Louth
@@donnchaodalaigh4031 British " gave" the Free State 6 out of 9 Ulster counties to guarantee a majority of Unionists in the remaining "Ulster statelet. The fake statelet remains in tact to this day because of that gerrymander. British diplomacy at the barrel of a gun.
@@TheBoru2011 Someones backside seems to be causing them pain.
@@JohnE9999 LOL. That's all you got.
@@TheBoru2011 I was trying to avoid the TH-cam censors! :P
Well I never. I'm from Belfast northern Ireland and I never thought I would see a gun from my history on your channel. And the raised hand is the red hand of Ulster. There is a we story about it my old da told me.
Brilliant Ian, I’m Northern Irish so this is particularly relevant for me and very interesting, thanks for all your videos
One vid Ian should do is where and how the IRA got their guns. A hell of a lot came from USA, but in more recent years from Libya as well.
Loyalist coal boat captain in 1914: "Womp-womp, guess that didn't work out so well for you, did it? *kappa* "
Yagi coppa
I heard it as kappa too.
There was a great deal of support in the British Army for the Ulsterites. Many of the officers threatened to resign rather than serve in suppressing them. If WW1 had taken place a year later it could have been embarrassing for the British.
The IRA had 11mm Mauser Gewehr 71s ( _SS Asgard_ landing of July, 1914). The Mausers were landed at Howth and became known as "Howth Rifles". They were nicknamed "elephant guns" for their huge bore and heavy recoil.
A shipment of Mosin-Nagant 91s captured by the Germans from the Russians was seized in 1916 ( _SS Aud_ landing of 1916).
Now we need a video on the arms of those militant Icelanders!
the veterli is the most common to get in the UK today because it can be owned without any sort of licensing due to the cartridge its chambered for.
Glad to see the comments section isn't a complete mess yet. I work i cross community and cross border peace work and still can be a civil gun nerd :) There are many people who have a poor understanding of their history here on this island
The thing is everyone loves to talk shit especially anonymously (and me in particular!) but I've gone out of my way to help "protestants/unionists" get jobs here alongside me here in Australia
If you try to play "neutral" between invader and invaded, you're siding with the invader.
the UVF guys many ended up in the 36th ulster regiment who where the only regiment to reach there day one objectives during the battle of the Somme
Who also had a much revered Catholic Padre, he was killed in action.
Pleasantly surprised at such a well researched piece on the complex subject of Irish military history from the US...good work. A feature on the iconic "Howth Mauser" rifles smuggled in by nationalists in 1916 would be a nice addition. :-)
Sarsfield's the word and Sarsfield's the man.
This made me read up on Icelandic history on Wikipedia. Iceland was actually ruled by Denmark until the mid-20th century. I didn't know that.
Which, seeing as I am Scandinavian myself, is rather embarassing.
Yea, Swedes don't know much of history. That's why they are fine killing their own.
Lol this comment section should be interesting. Quite the sensitive topic where I’m from, some people take all this very close to heart. But hey, keep the vids coming, doing some great work Ian!
Dublin Ireland looks like Zimbabwe now.
@ up the RA
Ah, a good friendly ribbing between neighbouring countries. You send me a nail bomb, I kneecap one of your son...good old fashion family fun. Who else is going to perpetuate the quarreling of our great grandfathers if not us? 🤷🏻♂️
I would like to make a snide comment about the ireland controversy and the bloodshed, but in reality its only a microcosm of the whole problem of in the words of hiram maxim or I think his friend, “the europeans love killing eachother so much we could do a lot of selling from that..” History speaks for itself
Nah, I'm just amused Ian said fanny and banger in the video.
In 1912 a home rule bill England did impose
And so Lord Carson he did raise an army to oppose
But off to France our boys were sent and Carson he did say
Go take our sons and tell the huns that we are on our way
A lot of the things Ian said were written in this song I heard about a decade ago.
Another Stamping seen on these weapons is the red hand with the letters "UPG" above it meaing "Ulster Provisional Government".
This was really cool to hear you talking about the history of my home. Thank you
Great grandad was in the 36th Ulster Division and was wounded at the Somme. He recovered and was wounded again in 1917. So at 18, he was a war veteran. (very proud of his actions)
He went on to serve in the Navy as an engineer in WW2 and survived. He died in 1978. (all medals, papers and news article as proof)
As for the pronunciation for Donaghadee it's pronounced Donica a dee. Larne and Bangor you got spot on @Ian
Went actually through these places today on my motorbike to Ballyhalbert
Why stop at ballyhalbert when Portavogie is just down the road!?
@@kobewatson8758 used to live there buddy lol.
Down dropping something off
I just love the history lessons that often accompany your videos. Prima!
You should see if you can get your hands on some of the more modern imports ie: 1979 - 1972 when areas of Derry and Belfast were barricaded by the IRA. They had AR18's mostly but also AK's, RPG's and even a few FN rifles. To be honest most of them are still there plus a few more modern imports from the Balkans.
Ian, you navigated some very treacherous historic waters there with skill and tact. The last person to do that was Queen Elizabeth II when she visited the Republic of Ireland about 10 years ago. She made a great job of it despite a lot of dinosaurs in the North and South just waiting to be offended so they could spout their tired old righteous indignation.
Playing neutral between invader and invaded is not actually being neutral, it's supporting the invader.
The reason it seems so civil is that the reality of English expansionism in Ireland is so brutal that actually talking about the true character of the conflict makes any given conversation uncomfortable.
I was a soldier in Ireland in the 70s . Found four of these in the roof space of a school . All had ' For God And Ulster' carved into the butts .
Great video, put forward all the key historic points really well.
Remember my dad saying was offered one of these rifles years ago by a neighbour who's parents had like 50 of them stashed in the thatched roof of their cottage.
The historic point that was omitted was genocide. A genocide that was the blueprint for the Holodomor that created the Russian colony in Ukraine that Russia is using to expand today. Take that out of the equation and the Anglo-Irish conflict is much easier to equivocate.
Quite a gem, amazed to see the marking like that.
Thanks Ian, a good explanation of how the UVF got guns into Ireland. Interestingly both members of the UVF and the Irish Volunteer Force (nationalist equivalent of the UVF) joined the British army at the start of the First World War. Both divisions acquitted themselves well in what turned out to be a blood bath of a conflict.
Awesome bit of history as always!
Last time I was this early, the powder was not smokeless yet.
That’s an GEW 88/14 with the welded on charger/stripper clip guides, and modified magazine no longer requiring the en bloc clip. Even without the UVF markings, that is a very, very rare rifle. Much, much rarer than the 88/05 or even an unmodified Gew 1888.
My Grandfather was original UVF. Ended up going to France soon after the Ulster Divisions were formed. Got through without a scratch. Also a quite a valued member of the Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers Football team. A lot of his division were from the south as well.
And the difference between the Original UVF and the 60's-present UVF is the most recent one are literally a terrorist group.
Comments are... predictably... full of people who have no idea what they're talking about. Great video though!
Enniskillen**
@@GrandDawggy Regiment title spelling is correct
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Inniskilling_Fusiliers
You don't think taking up arms to threaten your government is terrorism?
To say nothing of the sick butchery they did in Belfast 1920-23.
@@GrandDawggy wrong. The Regiment was the Inniskiing Fusiliers
I grew up in Bangor, one of the towns you refer to, from where Larne can be seen on a good day. The story I knew was the UVF realised they weren't going to be forced into an Irish Republic, so they sold a lot of these weapons off, some of them in Abyssinia. When Mussolini invaded that country in 1935, he couldn't understand the "For God and Ulster" stamp on the butt, but I don't know how true it is...
I can see this being the first video getting its comments turned off or taken down. Can open worms everywhere
@Frankthetank123098 I live in scotland and this morass of comments is just going to get steadily worse and worse trust me. This isn't light hearted banter.
Great episode Ian.
In all seriousness I imagine something like this happened:
Danish customs: Where are you taking your boatload of clandestine firearms?
Gunrunning captain: Ehh.. Ireland
Danish customs: Where's that? In the Atlantic? Must be Iceland.
Btw a real nice example of when provenance makes all the difference. As a former museumguy, a hill I'm willing to die on - figuratively speaking - is that it's not the artifact itself that makes the exhibition, it's the stories attached to it. Just showing off an artifact or a collection in itself, is never going to make much of an impression.
Why is a ship going from Hamburg to Ireland through the Baltic?
You sir, are asking the real questions here! Made me laugh so hard! That old cliche of the US and bad geography.
Might have had a regular route that led it to several ports in a row. Ireland-Germany-Denkmark for example. And if you are smuggling, using a regular ship that routinely goes for this route might be less suspicious than chartering one that goes directly from Germany to Ireland
To clarify, the guns were purchased from a dealer in Hamburg, but shipped from Kiel into the Baltic. Why they did not take a shorter route into the North Sea I don't know.
Forgotten Weapons thanks for the clarification. That makes sense, although still an odd choice to sail around Denmark rather than through the Kiel canal
@@zigzog7 I'd have to look it up, but in this case I suspect the fee for the canal might be an issue. Might have been cheaper to go through the Baltic.
I remember being in the crowd, addressed by Ian Paisley, on the dockside of Larne in 1968/9, when to great fanfare the Clyde Valley was brought back to Northern Ireland. It later went to the scrap yards to be dismantled.
Before I left NI I was fortunate enough to come into possession of one of the Martini Henry,s which were brought on the same ship.
As far as I understand it the RIC (police force) had strong unionist leanings so they might have done an extra super time wasting check of the coal ship knowing there was no guns on it.
The RIC were mostly Catholic so although I would say that the rank and file were happy enough with Ireland being part of the UK I wouldn't say that they had a strong unionist leaning.
Perhaps your thinking ROYAL ULSTER CONSTABULARY the predecessor of the current Police Service Northern Ireland?They were certainly Unionist leaning!
the royal Ulster constabulary was post partition. the section of the RIC in Ulster was mostly made up of unionists, which then went on to form the ruc post partition. Most of the RICs senior leadership also had a unionist leaning as they were appointed by the British administration in Dublin castle.
NO one as loyal as an ulster police man is supposedly what Winston Churchill said
I believe the unionist logic at the time was import the guns illegally to fight the British decision on home rule to show loyalty. genius. Churchill also had a seriously glossed over side by the British. He came up with the black and tans and the entire Gallipoli campaign was his idea
Brilliant vid Ian! As an ulsterman I can say you give a great reading of the history, and I thank you for that. 👏👏👏
I'm from Northern Ireland, really interesting video. Love learning more about our history
My grandfather helped distribute these rifles from the clyde valley in larne harbour
The U.V.F then went out to fight on the fields of the Somme and a lot of men from Ulster lost their lives for the crown. Not forgetting the Irish Catholics who fought for the crown.
Both sides fought in the 1st World War hoping to achieve their aims. Neither side would get quite what they hoped for. Thats why the Irish and Ulster Divisions exist
No, but shamefully Devalera failed to appreciate the sacrifice Irish Catholics made. If WW1 failed to teach us anything is that one should learn the folly of politics and avoid it like the plague. BTW Extra history has an interesting series on the 1918 pandemic. Oddly apt given events today.
Would be an awesome video if you did the entire history of Irish rebellion with footage of different firearms used there. Ive always been fascinated with the firearms that sneak their way into conflicts. Such as Vietnam, Syria, and of course Ireland.
During my grandfathers life he was in the UVF, the B specials, the Royal Irish Rifles were he fought on the Somme amongst other places, and the Home Guard during the second world war, it was him that inspired me to also serve my country. After he died at a ripe old age I still remember my father removing several pistols and rifles that had been shall we say overlooked from the roofspace of my grandparents home bringing them to a local river stripping the working parts and throwing them in.
The UVF of the 60s-now did have a connection, and it was through these rifles which it was still using (and some of the older members)
There's so many more instances of gun running by both nationalists and unionists into Ireland/ NI that would make fantastic videos. Great video!
A large percentage of the pre 1914 UVF boyos did indeed join the British Army, primarily the 36th (Ulster) division. Very, very few of them returned. The 36th was one of the only units to take their objectives on the first day on the Somme in 1916...but were slaughtered doing it. 5,500 KIA, WIA or missing in two days essentially destroyed the unit, and it was rebuilt with British conscripts.
Tactful handling of what continues to be a very emotive issue today. Interesting to note that the first group to arm themselves in opposition to what was the lawful government at the time, in the period that would eventuality lead to Irish independence, were "loyal" unionists, not the IRB/IRA. The army refused to move on the gun running, even though they knew it was happening. Contrast that with the situation in 1914, when Nationalists, in response to the Larne gun running, imported guns to Howth near Dublin. The army missed them and returning from Howth, frustrated, opened fire and massacred a civilian crowd on Bachelor's Walk in Dublin city centre.
Hi Ian. Bet you did not know you had so many people from Ireland North and South interested in your videos. Keep them coming. Thanks.
A large shipment of .303 Lee Enfield was also shipped to Irish loyalists by the Free Church of Scotland.
These are still being found today. A few dozen were uncovered in an Orange Hall a few years ago in Belfast. My granny also smuggled one in a pram in the early days of the troubles lol.
When the modern day UVF were decommissioning their arms as part of the peace process they allowed the cameras record the destruction of the first couple of rifles. This was unusual as the other paramilitarys including the (Provisional) IRA insisted that their decommissioning be done without any cameras present. The reason seems to have been an attempt to associate the modern UVF with the old UVF. The first two rifles decommissioned were a modern assault rifle and one of those old rifles from the 1914 Larne Gun running. It seemed a pity to cut up an historic artifact which could have found a home in some museum but symbolism is important to all sides in Northern Ireland.
Im sure they still have plenty left don't worry about it..
Excellent nugget of info. I hasn’t heard of that before. But certainly has a ring of Ulster symbolism.
Unrelated, in 1998/99 Aer Lingus received 6 new aircraft, all 6 were given Ulster saints names to honour the GFA.
@@Mugdorna Hi Mugdorna. If it was now there would be ejits saying those aircraft should not be called after Christian saints because diversity or something.
Most of the readers wont know what the GFA is, it is the "Good Friday Agreement". The two main communities in Northern Ireland (or " the north of Ireland" or the "six counties" all subtle codes) cannot even agree on the name of the agreement . The Unionists call it the "Belfast Agreement". A lot of people from both sides look for reasons to stay apart . It would put years on you.
@@dublineamo Well technically it is called The Belfast Agreement. GFA is the common name based on the timing.
@@Mugdorna It is also used to identify "which side yer on", sad but true.
It is an 88.14 as well, quite a rare piece indeed.
The story this rifle could tell
Love this.
As a son of a Ulster this is my history. (Granted the UVF were “the other side”)
Always love Ulsters history.
TH-cam: how fast can you click on a video?
Me: this video
This is why I watch this channel history and/or interesting engineering. Can you imagine I never ever shot a gun in my whole life but I watched probably a 1000 videos of Forgotten Weapons?
UVF.
*COME OUT YE BLACK AND TANS* intensifies.
I was born on a Dublin St!
Nothing to do with the Black and Tans you clown.
Black and Tans and the UVF are two different groups but aight.
German rifles (this fits more to the Mauser systems from the 1890's) were the kalashnikov of the early 20th century: no matter where the conflict happened, no matter if rebel or soldier, they were present.
Later on the republican side would also acquire german guns that would be put to action in the 1916 uprising.
M71 rifles for 11,15 x 60 black powder cartidges.
Oh I've got a brand new shiny helmet and a pair of kinky boots.
incorrect, the guns never arrived from the Germans, they were instead using british guns stolen from the barracks near todays O'Deveneyes gardens
@@jkkennedy9280 he probably watch "Michael Collins " too many times
@@jkkennedy9280 I believe you're getting two events mixed up, look up the howth gun running. A larger shipment of Russian arms from Germany was intercepted just before the rising
I know you briefly covered some of the improvised weapons used in the troubles but itll be pretty cool of you could do detailed videos on them individually or cover all of them in one video