This reminds me of a similar issue in vintage PC gaming where re-releases of classics will often use or default to the VGA art assets when in a number of cases, particularly for old Lucas and Sierra titles the primary version was actually the more widely marketable EGA version with the VGA version being more of an afterthought at the time. It's also very similar to the mono versus stereo question for some of the Beatles albums before they switched to focusing on the stereo mixes exclusively.
It's common for people to want the definitive graphics rather than the one that most people had at the time - but retro gamers should be made aware of these things. Far more people know about the dithering problem than about this little chestnut.
I guess what happened was after hearing that the Game Boy Color would have an improved processor, Rare decided to have two separate coding teams create the game to target each system's specifications with no worry of compromising the code to work on the other system. So since they only shared some assets and general design documents without actually communicating with each other, the two teams implemented virtually everything a little differently... And then none of Rare's other Game Boy Color games had pre-Color compatibility, so it would seem this experiment didn't prove worthwhile for them.
Fun fact: Black GB carts are officially refered to as Type 2 cartridges. Type 1 carts are original GB carts, Type 2 carts are hybrid GB+GBC carts, Type 3 carts are GBC carts and Type 4 carts are GBA carts.
It's definitely well done. I'm just not the biggest fan of some of the creative changes it made compared to the original, like replacing Mario's unique Fire Flower sprite with the "regular" red white pallet swap etc.
I prefer the oroginal one BUT playing it in limited colors on the gameboycolor because that’s how i growed up and familiar with it. Although i found it funny that while those backgrounds are actually colored blue including the shy and water, but certain elements like the ground and walls do look green in my imagination, i guess that my brain just expects to see a different color then what’s actually there. On the gameboyplayer it’s clearly appearent that all those extra colors i interpreted were just an imagination.
To be fair to Tetrix DX, it is a good tetris game. And there is a rom hack to add back the real music. Funny enough it's on the cart, just never used. One thing I like about this game is you can save your progress by pausing and turning off the gameboy. When you come back, it's waiting to be played where you paused.
I've never had an issue with its presentation, but I find Tetris DX overly easy. Once you've mastered the highest speed (level 20) games can last indefinitely, or at least until boredom sets in!
[Try4ce] One thing about the actual gameplay that weirded me out a bit is that the falling blocks are one pixel lower than the settled blocks. This is done to create a snappy feeling of the block clicking into place, I think, but that could be done just when the block lands, not something that requires it to be out of alignment when it falls. It doesn't throw me WAY off or anything, but I find it to be minorly displeasing. I did read though, that there's a glitch that allows blocks other than squares to wall climb, which I think is hilarious. Never tried it though. Another thing I didn't mention, at least they had a good idea with the music - it's more interactive than most Tetris music in that it switches to versions with higher tempo not just when you're in danger, but when your stack is more in the middle too, so there's more variation. It's just that in practice, the music is kind of bad and really messes with the vibe of the game.
The Pokemon Gold and Silver Super Gameboy support is honestly incredible. The Pokemon are fully colored during battle like the Color version, which is awesome and I love that they took their time to include that when they didn't need to.
I suspect it may have more to do with the Game Boy Tower of the Stadium games more than the actual physical Super Game Boy, given that the GB Tower in Stadium 2 is essentially a Super Game Boy that works with Game Boy Color games
21:47 The way those hands pulled down the screen, only to reveal the closet thing to Conker doing a Jeff the Killer impression... it had me ugly laughing for 5 minutes straight. That was the *PERFECT* mix of genuinely creepy and hilarious! Good lord...
Thanks for spotlighting the differences here - I remember switching back and forth between playing Game & Watch Gallery 2 and 3 on either my Game Boy Pocket, Super Game Boy, or Game Boy Color as a kid, and finding it really fascinating how different the art looked in each version, and the unique borders and whatnot. I've never really heard anyone else talk about this before.
Star Ocean Blue Sphere has a weird feature, in which there's a treasure locked behind a single door that is inaccessible on Gameboy Color but *can* be accessed on the DMG.
Awesome video as always! The Conker differences were mindblowing! Unrelated, but would an RGB masterclass on the MiSTer analog video be possible in the future? I know you had the overall deep dive which was awesome, but analog video these days is really complicated and finding good comparisons and footage is tough. I think you're the only folks with the attention to detail to really get at the heart of the pros and cons. Just to name a few methods we have: Direct video (with an uncountable number of DACs to choose from), the analog v1 board, the new pro analog v2 board, and perhaps most interestingly forks of various cores to add pulse width modulation to allow for 24 bit video on the analog v1 board. It's so unclear if that bridges the quality gap to render the pro v2 board somewhat redundant.
[Try4ce] Hmmm. I feel like the thing with this subject is, while different qualities of analog output may exist, I think once analog video meets a certain level of quality (which I feel all MiSTers probably meet) then the differences aren't very noticeable on a CRT, even on a PVM. CRTs mask a lot of nastiness in analog signals. You can detect quality differences much more easily on an upscaler, but considering all MiSTer systems have HDMI output (right?), then I'm not sure what the reason the average user would have for putting analog video into an upscaler. As someone who does a lot of weird things in my setup, I'm sure I could come up with a reason to do that myself, but I think interest in the subject would be very low because most people would just use analog video for a CRT and digital video for all other applications.
@@RealAlphaDrum never said one was easy. Just saying that I prefer them to spend time on videos and not streaming. I’ve been a subscriber since day one.
It's worth noting that Wario Land 2 actually cut a number of detail sprites to prevent those pallette issues, like curved tops of windows missing. This unfortunately also affects playing that version on GB/SGB meaning the visuals of the original game were hurt in the "upgrade". There's also the bizarre choice to prevent save files from working between GB and GBC modes, requiring a full wipe of the save data (all the files) just to play in another mode. A hack to disable the check doesn't seem to produce any glitches, so no clue why this was implemented but MAYBE they had ideas to do what they did with Conker and basically stuff two full games in there depending on mode. I think it's worth noting Pokemon Yellow's GBC support. This version basically just reuses the SGB mode from Red/Blue/Green, and even then only in the International releases. That very first opening cutscene with Pikachu surfing and floating around does have more consistently accurate color to it's red cheeks, but other than that, I found the SGB palettes softer pastels a lot nicer to look at over the stretch of the game than the much harsher pure colors in the GBC palettes.
[Try4ce] Seems like an awful lot of effort was expended to make them so different. I feel like the GBC version must've come first, and then they were told it had to be compatible with regular GB. Otherwise, why wouldn't they have just used graphics that would work in both?
I remember one weird quirk of Wario Land 2 in the black cartridge is that if you started your save file on a Game Boy Color but then pop it into a Super Game Boy, it pops up an error at start telling you that you either have to finish playing it on a GBC or delete your save file
@Try - the plate you used in the Factor ad (the white one with gold trim) is known to be made with lead paint. I'd toss and replace those if I were you.
[Try4ce] No that's not it. All Dragon Quest heroes do that with the sword. Look at his helmet, toward the right side of the sprite. Two black pixels pop on and off for no discernable reason
Awesome to learn more about the games and their various features. There's very likely more black carts with unique colorations and other differences. When you mentioned the save compatibility with Conker, I did remember that the original version of Wario Land II also refused to share the file between SGB and non-SGB systems, and the GBC version possibly works similar. Wario Land II also has a restriction I haven't seen in any other game, that when played on SGB prohibits to turn off the unique SGB palette. It's still a mystery to me how that's even accomplished.
[Try4ce] Yeah! I noticed the inability to change palette in Conker and DK Land 3 too! I wonder how many games do this, and why? The game can be played on a regular Game Boy with no color at all, so what could be so important about the palette that it should be restricted? Very curious!
Glad yall covered Dragon Quest 1&2 to fill in for the previous vid and also this subject as well. I noticed the differences in Pokemon Pinball when switching to the regular GB mode on my Analogue Pocket. Was neat seeing what was missing from the playfield and how the art changed so was curious what other titles did the same. Thanks for making this!
There’s another wrinkle in this-some black cartridge games use the faster clock speed of the GBC. Put Pokémon TCG side by side and you can feel the speed difference. You mentioned WL2-not sure if that uses the higher clock speed or the code in the color version is more optimized.
And then when those Castlevania and Contra games were re-released on Switch and other modern systems they don't have a color palette option whatsoever pretty much.
Great episode. I've always thought about this topic at the back of my mind, which is why I like playing some Game Boy games on the original or the pocket, and some games on the Color and/or Advance. When it came to the graphics, some games just looked better without color and vice versa.
Besides Donkey Kong Land III, there is another game that was released seperately on Game Boy and "Only for Game Boy Color" - Tom & Jerry (1992) and Tom & Jerry (1999). The GBC-exclusive release was just a colorisation of what was a 7 year old game, but with a card matching bonus game added between each level. Would've liked to see a couple more Dual Modes - Bugs Bunny Operation Carrots and Toy Story 2, but still a good video lol. I was well aware of the Tetris DX differences and I'm glad you showed those :) I have to disagree about the music though. While it's not the iconic "Tetris music", it's still nostalgic to me. Korobeiniki is actually in the code, but went unused.
I wish you could slap together a second follow video showing more of the gameboy comparisons you filmed that did not make this uploads cut. Or perhaps, a EXTENDED cut would be great. I just want to see more comparisons and learn things I might have not noticed before.
I love Quest 64. I've played through it more than 5 times, trying different elemental builds each time. It's the game that's in my N64 right now even, lol. I used to have a poster from Nintendo Power on my wall too, but I've lost it in the past 20+ years unfortunately.
Thank you Try! While I hope to offer a comment some time that spurs on research and learning by sharing knowledge, I just want to say thank you. I appreciate your effort, detail, and passion that you continue to share with us!
That Conker game probably just has 2 different ROMs. That's what they did for Space Invaders. It was an SNES ROM in the cart. Explains the save issue. They both use the same save location and the save is incompatible. They expect you to play on one system or another.
[Try4ce] I haven't opened the cart, but I doubt it's two physical ROM chips because it's a singular ROM file for loading the game on an EverDrive or emulator. Unless people did something weird to merge those into one file, or emulators always are built to accommodate it, I think it's probably just one ROM with two games. Haven't tried dumping it myself though to see if it does anything weird. I think the main reason save data isn't compatible is that one game uses save points and the other lets you save anywhere. There may also be progression differences even though the broad strokes of each version seem to be largely the same.
@@mylifeingaming "I think it's probably just one ROM with two games" That's what I meant. 🤓 Just like the Space invader ROM. It's two GAMES. One GAME for the SNES ands one GAME for the Game Boy. 🤓 EDIT: Same way multicarts have multiple GAMES 🤓 but on a single ROM. Sorry if my word use tripped you up.
@@alainchristian The multicarts make heavy use of bankswitching in most cases - to the point where it might as well be multiple partitions. Logical ROMs on a single physical ROM.
If you want examples of bad black cart games, there's Legend of the River King. On the regular Game Boy it's almost impossible to see what is happening.
Tetris DX songs are real bangers. The only one I would change is the middle one, just if you're gonna add the original iconic Tetris song in its place. But, the rest, fantastic.
@@KopperNeoman yeah, that waltz feels so out of context after being used to the iconic Tetris tune xDDD but they made a version 1.1, so I guess they were meaning to do it
wow... thanks for video. I had no idea about some differences on certain games. I also thanks to other Rom hacker to bring some of proper color tile mod for certain GB game for GBC. they are awesome.
I absolutely love this topic. But as somebody who never had a DMG, just a Pocket, I’ve always hated the green coloring. I’d have been more sympathetic to the OG Game Boy mode if you had used black and white instead.
[Try4ce] I loved the look of the Pocket when it was new, but in the years since, I like that old green! I don't like pure black and white for Game Boy. I like for it to be somewhat low contrast, whatever the color.
I'm with you there with the Pocket's screen. I did buy a DMG at launch but gave it away not long after - never took to the green, low contrast and excessive blur/ghosting. Pocket fixed all that for me and I just ended up playing so much more on that model due to it. Plus the increased portability was awesome.
[Try4ce] I feel like the increased motion clarity of the Pocket is generally somewhat overestimated. I remember when I traded my Pocket into Funcoland to buy a PS1, after months of playing the GBC, I tested it before taking it to the store and I was like, "is it broken?" It is a bit better, but I'm not sure it's better enough to make it a big selling point. The bigger and clearer screen are more notable perks, I'd say. Don't get me wrong, I don't exactly go back to play an actual DMG Game Boy anymore, but the green tint has settled in as my preferred way to play those games on other devices, like Analogue Pocket and MiSTer. I don't like invoking the word "nostalgia" carelessly because I think retro gaming is so much more than that, but I'll concede the green tint thing is nostalgia for me. That said, I do think there's something to a low contrast look for Game Boy games, as that's where the background art works it's magic the best. That can also be achieved with a more neutrally colored screen, like on Game Boy Pocket. But I think stark white and pure black for the lightest and darkest shades often doesn't work that great for Game Boy emulation. I like it to be dressed up in some fashion at least.
As someone who has been researching the SGB /SGB2 Super Game boy for years, the least important area was the comparison between DMG / CGB and SGB / SGB2 modes. Very few games attempted to match the GBC mode and it wasn't always possible due to the 12 palette limitations without using additional SNES hardware and VRAM.
I got a Gameboy Color pretty early on and had already packed away my SNES by then, so I only ever saw GBC graphics a lot of black cart games even back in the day. The last few times I've played some old favorites, I've forced the emulators into SGB mode to experience the difference. Dragon Quest Monsters also looks great on SGB, and Pokemon TCG card art looks great in monochrome. I never realized in the games I've played how often there are outright different graphics that I'll have to keep a closer eye out for. Also discovered that Wario 2 makes you reset your save when switching between (S)GB and GBC on the black cart. I'd love to know the technical detail behind that since it's the only game I've seen do that. And just as I post, I get to Conker doing that, too. Although Wario 2 is identical between versions, so at least Conker has an obvious reason.
Nice one Try. Though, I disagree with you on Tetris DX; when it launched I was disappointed in the music selection, and the omission of the Tetris song (Type A music from the original). However I was blown away by the little colour flourishes like the scrolling back grounds and cycling colour gradient transitions. Even back then, the GBC was a late follow up to the GB's 'withered technology' with more 'withered technology', but there was nothing else so the colour and processor speed bump did impress somewhat. I know the screen can seem dark, but have always found it to be a sharp display with great colours. Good news is there's a ROM hack that allows you to add the original song Type A song back in! I think it was in the code, but unused and the hack just swaps it in. I just wish I could get the NES' song 3 hacked in too, it's beautiful.
Small correction for Dragon Quest on Switch/PS4. The Switch/PS4 ports are not the mobile versions. The mobile versions use purely the SNES version's sprites and has smooth scrolling when you move around. The Switch/PS4 ports decided to redo the sprites and use HD Artwork for monster battles which makes them clash in style. Plus, that jutter when moving is awful. The mobile versions do have a portrait presentation, however.. and touch controls so... that could be a downside if you don't like that. Sides that, they are, objectively, the best versions for most of the games despite them being on mobile.
Porting the mobile/console translation to the Super Famicom ROMs would result in the best version of these games. The CD-quality soundtrack can also be included with the MSU-1. Especially if the GBC bonuses can be ported to the Super Famicom.
@@HydraSpectre1138 That would be cool. I think the GBC bonuses in 3..(?) are hit or miss though. Can't remember fully. But as it stands, they are great versions even still. Since you don't exactly need quick reactions for these games or anything!
Great video. Even before I started, I wondered if Try would go in-depth on Conker's Pocket Tales and the fact that it's basically a completely different game between GBC and GB. I only found that out a few months ago when I played it on SGB for the first time!
[Try4ce] Is this something people talk about much at all? I guess it's not that popular of a game, but it comes from a notable developer and is an interesting artifact that reveals the other side of development for an famous M-rated N64 game. You'd think people would be talking about this, but I had absolutely never heard it. I bought it a few years ago, but barely touched it until now. My surprise was something I experienced myself just a few weeks ago. I had absolutely never heard about this before and it is utterly fascinating. That alone makes the game actually worth looking at even though it is certainly not too great.
@mylifeingaming I never heard about it until I experienced it with my own eyes. I had it when it came out and I only ever played it on my GBC. Didn't have a SGB in 2000. It was definitely a great thing to go in-depth on. Kudos!
According to Wikipedia, there’s apparently custom audio for the GB version of Wario Land II when played on the Super Game Boy. I would really like to hear some of that if that’s the case.
This video felt made for me! Super Game Boy always delighted me- Game & Watch Gallery 2 and Warioland II were my 1st and 2nd Game Boy games, and I’ve put more hours into Tetris DX than perhaps any other game. btw, Type C music is the only way to go!
I actually don't own any black gb games. Just gb and gba so I was really excited for this. I hope one day you find the definitive black gameboy color enhanced gameboy game. At the moment it seems the biggest issue/perk is either highlighting artwork flaws or enhancing artwork flairs! Really interesting video though!
God I love the GameBoy. Great choice of topic even if it is incredibly niche. I've always been interested in how NGPC games look between the B&W and colour versions of the console. I THINK they can look pretty different and some B&W games like the first Samurai Shodown have colour on the colour system that wasn't advertised.
As for Tetris DX, the game definitely could have updated the palette in real-time without affecting VS mode; *Using standard ATTR_CHR, it is possible to read out screen area mapping palette information by writing updates every 6 by 9 panel / block (12 by 18 CHR) area spanning full height of the screen, ATTR_CHR would have been possible after the 40-bit header. The GB program needs to send 18*12*2 = 432 bits of payload for a total of 472 bits. This would be sent through the ICD2 as one 128-bit packet every 4 VBLANKS, or ceil (472 / 128) = 4 packets over the course of 4*4 = 16 VBLANKS, thus needing to repeat the 4 packets every time the center of the row crosses into a new row of character attributes displayed on-screen. The most practical use of this method is to display updating columns of tiles in a puzzle game using the 12 (minus 4 for in-game screen area designation) palette limitation (should be enough) without using 256 palette display, overwriting palettes assigned to standard SGB function display (menus, etc). Three valid transfers are barely able to output the SNES VBLANK. ;SNES VBLANK 38*1364 = 51832 master clocks (minus 40 byte header) ;24 lines GB = 24*456*5 = 54720 master clocks If JOYPAD registers are read while the game is updating SGB / 2 packets it shouldn't cause issues with the VS link cable. My best guess as to why Tetris DX doesn't include a SGB / 2 palette was because Nintendo didn't want to overshadow the GBC then new capabilities. I included a simple palette patch to address this issue. It really is strange that they couldn't at least include a simple palette.
[Try4ce] Interesting! Yeah I noticed when building comparisons that games with custom palettes would get out of sync with the others during screen transitions. So that was my best guess.
@@mylifeingaming If it's an implementation issue with the SGB2's (/modded SGBs with the oscillator and link port) user-controlled palettes, that's really interesting. My first assumption was that it was similar to the GBP's support for things like rumble that are implemented via the link port - obviously not physically, the GameCube can hijack the EXT bus of the GBP unless its physical tab in the port is pushed up - and therefore don't work if you're using it. That port hijacking is in fact faster than the actual EXT port, which can be really seen when you use it to dump a game. If you're curious, GBP detection isn't handled by a hardware version flag, because ARM7 initialisation doesn't have one of those. Instead, it's done by the Game Boy Player splash screen that cartridges use! Upon detecting it, the GBP's firmware (Start-Up Disc always and GBI if enabled) holds in all four directions on the D-Pad to tell the software "Yes, I am a GameCube actually."
The few seconds on Quest 64 coming deblurred out of probably a N64Digital really got to me and I had to plug my N64 in and try out more raw-pixel deblurred games on the thing all day.
[Try4ce] That was actually a basic RGB mod with optimized sampling on the RetroTINK 4K! That's the same result as deblur, pretty much! Normally I'd have done the N64Digital modded unit, but the RGB one was easier to get recorded quickly at the time.
Funny you finished off with dkc 3. The gba version is my go-to for that game thanks to the new soundtrack from David wise rather than what they used on snes
I saw someone streaming that Mr. Do Quest and showing off that at a certain point, some letters in the results screen are incorrect, like they didn't even fully test the Game Boy Color mode to make sure it loads the correct tiles everywhere. I was fascinated to learn that the A Bug's Life game came out early enough on Game Boy Color that they bothered to put an alternate "16-bit" soundtrack into the Super Game Boy mode, but the cutscenes have animations only in the Game Boy Color mode, so it's debatable which is the more "deluxe" version.
[Try4ce] Wow I've never heard of Super Game Boy games having a soundtrack generated by SNES! The only instances I can even think of where SNES sound is mixed in is for Pauline's voice in Donkey Kong and the clapping on the title screen in Kirby's Dream Land 2.
@@mylifeingaming If you finish Donkey Kong, it uses SNES sound for the ending credits music! There are games that change all the music to use SNES samples, and there are games that replace all the sound effects; Animaniacs and Poko-nyan: Yume no Daibouken are notable for doing both.
[Try4ce] Wow it's been so long since I finished DK '94 that I guess I never realized this. I played through it many times back in the day, both on Game Boy and Super Game Boy.
Great video! As a heads up, wario land II has the same issue as Conker's Pocket Tales, where save data isn't compatible between the gb and gbc versions
Many black-colored Game Boy Color games such as Frogger, Centipede, Super Breakout, Monopoly, Asteroids, Battleship, Chessmaster, Titus the Fox, Space Invaders, Black Bass: Lure Fishing, Prince of Persia, Pac-Man: Special Color Edition, Ms. Pac-Man: Special Color Edition, Harvest Moon GBC, Harvest Moon 2, Legend of the River King GBC, Legend of the River King 2, Tetris DX, R-Type DX, Looney Tunes, Looney Tunes: Carrot Crazy, Looney Tunes: Marvin Strikes Back!, Looney Tunes: “Twouble!”, Bugs Bunny Crazy Castle 3, Tazmanian Devil: Munching Madness, Daffy Duck: Fowl Play, Speedy Gonzales: Aztec Adventure, The Rugrats Movie, Wario Land II, The Legend of Zelda: Link’s Awakening DX, Pokémon Gold, Pokémon Silver, Pokémon Pinball, Pokémon Trading Card Game, Turok 2: Seeds of Evil, Gex: Enter the Gecko, NFL Blitz, Earthworm Jim: Menace 2 the Galaxy, Pocket Bowling, Yars’ Revenge, Star Wars: Yoda Stories, Mega Man Xtreme, Quest RPG: Brian’s Journey, Godzilla: The Series, Barbie: Fashion Pack Games, Barbie: Ocean Discovery, Metal Walker, Antz, Bust-A-Move 4, Babe and Friends, Oddworld: Adventures 2, Rampage: World Tour, Bass Masters Classic, Catterpillar Construction Zone, Rats!, Shamus, Wings of Fury, Uno, Hot Wheels: Stunt Track Driver, Las Vegas Cool Hand, Pitfall: Beyond the Jungle, Ballistic, NBA Jam 99, Rugrats: Time Travelers, Rox, Ronaldo V-Soccer, Klustar, Midway Presents Arcade Hits: Joust/Defender, Midway Presents Arcade Hits: Moon Patrol/Spy Hunter, The Adventures of Mary-Kate and Ashley, Mary-Kate and Ashley: Get a Clue!, Mary-Kate and Ashley: Pocket Planner, WWF WrestleMania 2000, Ghosts ‘n Goblins, Hello Kitty’s Cube Frenzy, Evel Knievel, Jeff Gordon XS Racing, Montezuma‘s Return!, 720 Degress, Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2000, Sesame Street: Elmo’s 123’s, Sesame Street: Elmo’s ABC’s, Puzzle Master, Quest for Camelot, Men in Black: The Series, Shanghai Pocket, Bomberman Quest, Pocket Bomberman, Game & Watch Gallery 2, Game & Watch Gallery 3, Mortal Kombat 4, Disney‘s Beauty and the Beast: A Board Game Adventure, Classic Bubble Bobble, Blaster Master: Enemy Below, Revelations: The Demon Slayer, Quest: Fantasy Challenge, TNN Outdoors Fishing Champ, NBA 3 on 3 feat. Kobe Bryant, Disney/Pixar A Bug’s Life, Disney/Pixar Toy Story 2, Conker’s Pocket Tails, Monster Rancer Battle Card GB, International Track & Field, Survival Kids, Azure Dreams, Chase H.Q.: Secret Police, Madden NFL 2000, FIFA Soccer 2000, NHL Hockey 2000, Shadowgate Classic, Dragon Dance, Roadsters Trophy 2, Robopon: Sun Version, NBA in the Zone, International Rally, Power Quest, Test Drive 6, Hexcite: The Shapes of Victory, Lil’ Monster, Hole in One Golf, Test Drive Off-Road 3, Dragon Warrior I & II, Dragon Warrior Monsters, Dragon Warrior Monsters: Cobi’s Journey and Dragon Warrior Monsters: Tara’s Adventure are compatible in monochrome mode with the Nintendo Game Boy and Super Game Boy. Hey, one day, I can go switching back and forth between playing any Game Boy and black-colored Game Boy Color game paks on either Nintendo Game Boy, Super Game Boy, Game Boy Pocket, Game Boy Color, Game Boy Advance, or Game Boy Advance SP.
I never knew there were differences in designs between each Game Boy mode between Game Boy/Super Game Boy and Game Boy Color. That explains why I see color patches for Game Boy games that have a Game Boy Color release.
It really is all about the RAM w these older consoles! These older CPU's were clearly more capable than we thought, but due to high RAM costs they were held back by very low amounts of on board RAM. Thus the systems that do things like merely upgrade the RAM, aka what the GBC did for the GB, you can see the differences in some games even tho its the exact same CPU! Same thing w the CD add-on for the PC Engine. That extra RAM it added REALLY unlocked the potential of the system, & you can see it in the sheer graphic fidelity in many of the Super CD games!
As a huge Pokemon nerd since the series released, even I was surprised when I played Pokemon Red/Blue on my Game Boy Color for the first time. I think Pokemon Red/Blue were designed with the Super Game Boy in mind, and took full advantage of it, but had no idea what the GBC was going to be like. That's my best guess, at least, since Pokemon Yellow uses the same kinds of colour pallets on the GBC as the SGB. And since Pokemon Yellow was the only one I had as a kid with my GBC, and I'd only experienced R/B on the SGB, I'd assumed Yellow's GBC compatibility was the norm! From memory, the biggest difference that I can recall is that the towns don't all have their own unique colours when playing R/B on the GBC, but Yellow does, as do R/B on the SGB. So the SGB is undoubtedly the best way to play R/B.
[Try4ce] Doesn't affect black cart games though. I don't like those settings on GBC anyway though. A couple of them are alright but I think Super Game Boy looks way better for non-GBC games.
I would GREATLY appreciate a video specifically on GB/SGB/GBC Pokémon games. I've found that the Super Game Boy is the best for a few, and a solid in-between for others. Also, for some weirdness, try playing the GBC/SGB intros for Gold or Silver side-by-side. They're the exact same length in terms of number of frames, but the scene durations and music are a bit different
[Try4ce] I noticed this a lot as I was lining up clips for comparisons - Super Game Boy screen transitions often take longer than the handheld systems. This is the main reason I speculated that maybe the palettes could be an issue with maintaining multiplayer sync in Tetris DX. Obviously that could be a consideration for Pokemon too (Pokemon is obviously the main reason the Super Game Boy 2 even exists), but since it's turn-based, maybe it can be looser with these things than Tetris? Total wild guess on my part though, based on little knowledge of how the link connection even functions.
Interesting to see the differences of Black carts on GameBoy, Super GameBoy and GameBoy Color as I've never looked too much into them before. The Tetris DX A-Type Music is a bummer though and I orefer Tetris DX than the original because of the color and high scores saving. Interestingly the A-Type Music of the original Tetris on GameBoy is acessible through either a cheat code or by patching the rom to always have it available as A-Type Music among the other unused music in Tetris DX.
It's situation like these that I wish there was more Gameboy Color (exclusive) content (articles & videos). Gameboy Color nearly always gets lumped in with Gameboy.
[Try4ce] It probably depends on someone's age - if GBC was the main handheld when they were the same age I was when I got my original Game Boy, then it probably made a bigger impact. I was 14 when the GBC came out. I've personally always felt that the GBC exclusive library is pretty weak, so that's part of why I tend to lump it all together in my head. For me, the golden era of Game Boy runs up through the release of Pokemon Red and Blue in the west, and after that point, I was kind of tired of Game Boy up until the GBA. Of course, looking back, I love it all, and the GBC does have at least a few great exclusives, but that's how I felt at the time anyway.
I wish the virtual console versions of alot of the black cart games would of had an option to turn it from GB or GBC like they do it on NSO, that would of been a cool feature, or to allow super gamebly features on the Virtual Console also
As a general rule I always prefer to play on the SGB for the clearier picture on a bigger screen and a more comfortable controller, the borders and other extra features like 2 player modes were a nice touch too. It always felt a shame that there was no GBC equivilent of the SGB and even when we got the GBA player on the Gamecube it felt a shame that it lacked bordered or any other extras.
I'm surprised you didn't take Donkey Kong Country GBC as a point of comparison for the GBC-only japanese version of Dixie Kong, since the game is a good translation of the SNES game, and it's COMPLETE WITH EVERYTHING on the platform, and it's what should've been done with the GBC version of Dixie Kong. On another note, Pokémon GSC has a few differences when played on GBC than on GB(Pocket) besides (obviously) lack of color. One example I can remember of, some battle animations (like Recover) are faster on GBC, and with a very noticeable difference. On GB(P), the lighting effect transition occurs twice as slow, and the energy pellets whirling around the "Recover" user takes way longer to complete the animation cycle.
One thing worth noting about the konami GB collections is that castlevania adventure moves a long at a much better pace over the sluggish original you can even see it here during the side by side
[Try4ce] Yeah and unfortunately I realized this too, after having said in the previous episode that it ran no better. The slowdown IS still nearly constant though, so it doesn't really fix anything, but just makes the problem slightly less severe.
people overlook the gameboy was literally an overpowered calculator, works the same as those gas station handheld displays, it turned a black square ON and OFF just filled the screen of black squares, letter applied less power to get lighter dark tones
It's rare to see discussion about the merits of monotone pixel art like this. Great analysis of the different approaches.
Tritone technically. 2-bit color, meaning off, light grey, dark grey, black, 00, 01, 10, 11.
This reminds me of a similar issue in vintage PC gaming where re-releases of classics will often use or default to the VGA art assets when in a number of cases, particularly for old Lucas and Sierra titles the primary version was actually the more widely marketable EGA version with the VGA version being more of an afterthought at the time. It's also very similar to the mono versus stereo question for some of the Beatles albums before they switched to focusing on the stereo mixes exclusively.
It's common for people to want the definitive graphics rather than the one that most people had at the time - but retro gamers should be made aware of these things. Far more people know about the dithering problem than about this little chestnut.
Loom EGA is beautiful.
heros quest is way better than quest for glory
You don't even have to go back that much.
Glide vs OpenGL vs Software rendering. All different results.
Also how about the color blended 16 color palettes when outputting CGA to an interlaced display via composite?
Conker's Pocket Tales being basically two separate games in one cart (that use the same save RAM with incompatible saves) is just *weird*.
Knowing what I do about bank switching and such, it must have been a crazy programming job.
I guess what happened was after hearing that the Game Boy Color would have an improved processor, Rare decided to have two separate coding teams create the game to target each system's specifications with no worry of compromising the code to work on the other system. So since they only shared some assets and general design documents without actually communicating with each other, the two teams implemented virtually everything a little differently... And then none of Rare's other Game Boy Color games had pre-Color compatibility, so it would seem this experiment didn't prove worthwhile for them.
Wario Land II black cartridge version also has incompatible saves. You have to erase them if you want to switch between original GB and GBC.
Fun fact: Black GB carts are officially refered to as Type 2 cartridges. Type 1 carts are original GB carts, Type 2 carts are hybrid GB+GBC carts, Type 3 carts are GBC carts and Type 4 carts are GBA carts.
Thats fun for sure. Type 5 carts are GBDS. Type 6 carts are GB3DS.
@@neoturfmasterMVS And Type 7 is Switch. Type 8 is a CF2 card. Type 9 is a NVME drive. Type 10 hasn't been invented yet. Type 11 is NES.
@@GameSack
@@GameSack The circle of Nintendo. #amazing
As a kid I was always confused when I saw that in the instruction manual for my SP.
Very cool topic to cover, I love all the differences you pointed out...never would have guessed there were that many changes between them!
Shoutout for the colour hack of SML2. Very well done, bright, clear, and runs better.
DX looks and plays fantastic, but I still find myself leaning back to the original Gameboy version.
It's definitely well done. I'm just not the biggest fan of some of the creative changes it made compared to the original, like replacing Mario's unique Fire Flower sprite with the "regular" red white pallet swap etc.
I prefer the oroginal one BUT playing it in limited colors on the gameboycolor because that’s how i growed up and familiar with it.
Although i found it funny that while those backgrounds are actually colored blue including the shy and water, but certain elements like the ground and walls do look green in my imagination, i guess that my brain just expects to see a different color then what’s actually there.
On the gameboyplayer it’s clearly appearent that all those extra colors i interpreted were just an imagination.
To be fair to Tetrix DX, it is a good tetris game. And there is a rom hack to add back the real music. Funny enough it's on the cart, just never used. One thing I like about this game is you can save your progress by pausing and turning off the gameboy. When you come back, it's waiting to be played where you paused.
I'm a big fan of having cleared line counts and high scores saved in different player profiles.
I've never had an issue with its presentation, but I find Tetris DX overly easy. Once you've mastered the highest speed (level 20) games can last indefinitely, or at least until boredom sets in!
[Try4ce] One thing about the actual gameplay that weirded me out a bit is that the falling blocks are one pixel lower than the settled blocks. This is done to create a snappy feeling of the block clicking into place, I think, but that could be done just when the block lands, not something that requires it to be out of alignment when it falls. It doesn't throw me WAY off or anything, but I find it to be minorly displeasing.
I did read though, that there's a glitch that allows blocks other than squares to wall climb, which I think is hilarious. Never tried it though.
Another thing I didn't mention, at least they had a good idea with the music - it's more interactive than most Tetris music in that it switches to versions with higher tempo not just when you're in danger, but when your stack is more in the middle too, so there's more variation. It's just that in practice, the music is kind of bad and really messes with the vibe of the game.
The Pokemon Gold and Silver Super Gameboy support is honestly incredible. The Pokemon are fully colored during battle like the Color version, which is awesome and I love that they took their time to include that when they didn't need to.
I suspect it may have more to do with the Game Boy Tower of the Stadium games more than the actual physical Super Game Boy, given that the GB Tower in Stadium 2 is essentially a Super Game Boy that works with Game Boy Color games
21:47 The way those hands pulled down the screen, only to reveal the closet thing to Conker doing a Jeff the Killer impression... it had me ugly laughing for 5 minutes straight. That was the *PERFECT* mix of genuinely creepy and hilarious! Good lord...
This is why I love fanmade colorized patches.
Thanks for spotlighting the differences here - I remember switching back and forth between playing Game & Watch Gallery 2 and 3 on either my Game Boy Pocket, Super Game Boy, or Game Boy Color as a kid, and finding it really fascinating how different the art looked in each version, and the unique borders and whatnot. I've never really heard anyone else talk about this before.
Star Ocean Blue Sphere has a weird feature, in which there's a treasure locked behind a single door that is inaccessible on Gameboy Color but *can* be accessed on the DMG.
What a cool idea for a topic. This was really fascinating. Some of these comparisons really make you appreciate the original monochrome art more.
"The Enemy of Art Is the Absence of Limitations" - Orson Welles
Awesome video as always! The Conker differences were mindblowing!
Unrelated, but would an RGB masterclass on the MiSTer analog video be possible in the future? I know you had the overall deep dive which was awesome, but analog video these days is really complicated and finding good comparisons and footage is tough. I think you're the only folks with the attention to detail to really get at the heart of the pros and cons. Just to name a few methods we have: Direct video (with an uncountable number of DACs to choose from), the analog v1 board, the new pro analog v2 board, and perhaps most interestingly forks of various cores to add pulse width modulation to allow for 24 bit video on the analog v1 board. It's so unclear if that bridges the quality gap to render the pro v2 board somewhat redundant.
[Try4ce] Hmmm. I feel like the thing with this subject is, while different qualities of analog output may exist, I think once analog video meets a certain level of quality (which I feel all MiSTers probably meet) then the differences aren't very noticeable on a CRT, even on a PVM. CRTs mask a lot of nastiness in analog signals. You can detect quality differences much more easily on an upscaler, but considering all MiSTer systems have HDMI output (right?), then I'm not sure what the reason the average user would have for putting analog video into an upscaler. As someone who does a lot of weird things in my setup, I'm sure I could come up with a reason to do that myself, but I think interest in the subject would be very low because most people would just use analog video for a CRT and digital video for all other applications.
Sweet CGR glass. I wonder if Mark will see. lol
Oh thank God it's a real video finally. Not another livestream. THIS is why I'm subbed.
Yes I can’t stand the way the channel moved towards live streaming
You realize to do videos of their quality it takes time right? 1 video a month is proper.
@@itguru2037 You realize to do videos of their quality it takes time right? 1 video a month is proper.
@@RealAlphaDrum never said one was easy. Just saying that I prefer them to spend time on videos and not streaming. I’ve been a subscriber since day one.
@@RealAlphaDrum What does that have to do with what I said?
It's worth noting that Wario Land 2 actually cut a number of detail sprites to prevent those pallette issues, like curved tops of windows missing. This unfortunately also affects playing that version on GB/SGB meaning the visuals of the original game were hurt in the "upgrade". There's also the bizarre choice to prevent save files from working between GB and GBC modes, requiring a full wipe of the save data (all the files) just to play in another mode. A hack to disable the check doesn't seem to produce any glitches, so no clue why this was implemented but MAYBE they had ideas to do what they did with Conker and basically stuff two full games in there depending on mode.
I think it's worth noting Pokemon Yellow's GBC support. This version basically just reuses the SGB mode from Red/Blue/Green, and even then only in the International releases. That very first opening cutscene with Pikachu surfing and floating around does have more consistently accurate color to it's red cheeks, but other than that, I found the SGB palettes softer pastels a lot nicer to look at over the stretch of the game than the much harsher pure colors in the GBC palettes.
This absolute G in gaming answering the questions we didn't think of asking.
Great video on an under explored topic. I’d love to see you return to this with more examples sometime.
Excellent video! I'd love to hear the story behind the differences in Conker! And I think I appreciate DKC2 and 3 just a little more now.
[Try4ce] Seems like an awful lot of effort was expended to make them so different. I feel like the GBC version must've come first, and then they were told it had to be compatible with regular GB. Otherwise, why wouldn't they have just used graphics that would work in both?
Was blown away when I was browsing the guest list for Long Island Retro Gaming Expo and saw you guys come up. Looking forward to it!
[Try4ce] We were also there in I think 2018! It was awesome! Can't wait to be there again!
I remember one weird quirk of Wario Land 2 in the black cartridge is that if you started your save file on a Game Boy Color but then pop it into a Super Game Boy, it pops up an error at start telling you that you either have to finish playing it on a GBC or delete your save file
@Try - the plate you used in the Factor ad (the white one with gold trim) is known to be made with lead paint. I'd toss and replace those if I were you.
Try4ce runs on leaded fuel
Nearly everything contains lead, including most fruit
@@swagar this particular set has about 10 times more than safe levels.
@@swagar this particular set has about 10 times more than safe levels.
This episode was amazing! Excellent work.
Knocking it out of the park as always, guys!
That dragon quest “glitch” when facing left is the sword in his right hand obscured by his face.
Yeah I was listening to this part like... what?
[Try4ce] No that's not it. All Dragon Quest heroes do that with the sword. Look at his helmet, toward the right side of the sprite. Two black pixels pop on and off for no discernable reason
Oh, at first I thought you were talking about the sword too, but now I see the two pixels toward the back of the head...
Awesome to learn more about the games and their various features. There's very likely more black carts with unique colorations and other differences.
When you mentioned the save compatibility with Conker, I did remember that the original version of Wario Land II also refused to share the file between SGB and non-SGB systems, and the GBC version possibly works similar.
Wario Land II also has a restriction I haven't seen in any other game, that when played on SGB prohibits to turn off the unique SGB palette. It's still a mystery to me how that's even accomplished.
[Try4ce] Yeah! I noticed the inability to change palette in Conker and DK Land 3 too! I wonder how many games do this, and why? The game can be played on a regular Game Boy with no color at all, so what could be so important about the palette that it should be restricted? Very curious!
I love this channels videos. I wish they could produce more.
Glad yall covered Dragon Quest 1&2 to fill in for the previous vid and also this subject as well. I noticed the differences in Pokemon Pinball when switching to the regular GB mode on my Analogue Pocket. Was neat seeing what was missing from the playfield and how the art changed so was curious what other titles did the same. Thanks for making this!
There’s another wrinkle in this-some black cartridge games use the faster clock speed of the GBC. Put Pokémon TCG side by side and you can feel the speed difference. You mentioned WL2-not sure if that uses the higher clock speed or the code in the color version is more optimized.
I'm amazed that Brian from Quest 64 exists in a Gameboy Color game
[Try4ce] TWO Game Boy Color games, no less!
And the small list of gameboy games that add new content if played on a gameboy advance
And then when those Castlevania and Contra games were re-released on Switch and other modern systems they don't have a color palette option whatsoever pretty much.
So happy to see a new MLiG video!
Great episode. I've always thought about this topic at the back of my mind, which is why I like playing some Game Boy games on the original or the pocket, and some games on the Color and/or Advance. When it came to the graphics, some games just looked better without color and vice versa.
New MLiG upload just made my day!
Besides Donkey Kong Land III, there is another game that was released seperately on Game Boy and "Only for Game Boy Color" - Tom & Jerry (1992) and Tom & Jerry (1999). The GBC-exclusive release was just a colorisation of what was a 7 year old game, but with a card matching bonus game added between each level.
Would've liked to see a couple more Dual Modes - Bugs Bunny Operation Carrots and Toy Story 2, but still a good video lol.
I was well aware of the Tetris DX differences and I'm glad you showed those :) I have to disagree about the music though. While it's not the iconic "Tetris music", it's still nostalgic to me. Korobeiniki is actually in the code, but went unused.
Any chance in the future you can show the og xbox some love 🙏🙏
It would be cool if you can compare the 3 different video chip versions in the og xbox. I’ve heard they all produce different results…
I wish you could slap together a second follow video showing more of the gameboy comparisons you filmed that did not make this uploads cut. Or perhaps, a EXTENDED cut would be great. I just want to see more comparisons and learn things I might have not noticed before.
I love Quest 64. I've played through it more than 5 times, trying different elemental builds each time. It's the game that's in my N64 right now even, lol. I used to have a poster from Nintendo Power on my wall too, but I've lost it in the past 20+ years unfortunately.
Thank you Try! While I hope to offer a comment some time that spurs on research and learning by sharing knowledge, I just want to say thank you. I appreciate your effort, detail, and passion that you continue to share with us!
That Conker game probably just has 2 different ROMs. That's what they did for Space Invaders. It was an SNES ROM in the cart. Explains the save issue. They both use the same save location and the save is incompatible. They expect you to play on one system or another.
[Try4ce] I haven't opened the cart, but I doubt it's two physical ROM chips because it's a singular ROM file for loading the game on an EverDrive or emulator. Unless people did something weird to merge those into one file, or emulators always are built to accommodate it, I think it's probably just one ROM with two games. Haven't tried dumping it myself though to see if it does anything weird. I think the main reason save data isn't compatible is that one game uses save points and the other lets you save anywhere. There may also be progression differences even though the broad strokes of each version seem to be largely the same.
@@mylifeingaming "I think it's probably just one ROM with two games" That's what I meant. 🤓 Just like the Space invader ROM. It's two GAMES. One GAME for the SNES ands one GAME for the Game Boy. 🤓
EDIT: Same way multicarts have multiple GAMES 🤓 but on a single ROM. Sorry if my word use tripped you up.
@@alainchristian The multicarts make heavy use of bankswitching in most cases - to the point where it might as well be multiple partitions. Logical ROMs on a single physical ROM.
@@KopperNeoman Ma'am, this is a Wendy's.
A new MLiG video and a new Cosmonaut video in the same hour? This is a good day.
That was mind blowing how different games could be on one cartridge, especially Conker.
I was today years old when I discovered these differences! This is wild. Great vid!
If you want examples of bad black cart games, there's Legend of the River King. On the regular Game Boy it's almost impossible to see what is happening.
there's a lot of cool information here that i can appreciate as a gameboy enthusiast. thanks for the great video
My Life in Gaming comes once every thousand years
Tetris DX songs are real bangers. The only one I would change is the middle one, just if you're gonna add the original iconic Tetris song in its place. But, the rest, fantastic.
Funnily enough, that iconic folk song isn't actually in the original GB Tetris. It's in version 1.1.
@@KopperNeoman yeah, that waltz feels so out of context after being used to the iconic Tetris tune xDDD but they made a version 1.1, so I guess they were meaning to do it
wow... thanks for video. I had no idea about some differences on certain games.
I also thanks to other Rom hacker to bring some of proper color tile mod for certain GB game for GBC. they are awesome.
I absolutely love this topic. But as somebody who never had a DMG, just a Pocket, I’ve always hated the green coloring. I’d have been more sympathetic to the OG Game Boy mode if you had used black and white instead.
[Try4ce] I loved the look of the Pocket when it was new, but in the years since, I like that old green! I don't like pure black and white for Game Boy. I like for it to be somewhat low contrast, whatever the color.
I'm with you there with the Pocket's screen. I did buy a DMG at launch but gave it away not long after - never took to the green, low contrast and excessive blur/ghosting. Pocket fixed all that for me and I just ended up playing so much more on that model due to it. Plus the increased portability was awesome.
[Try4ce] I feel like the increased motion clarity of the Pocket is generally somewhat overestimated. I remember when I traded my Pocket into Funcoland to buy a PS1, after months of playing the GBC, I tested it before taking it to the store and I was like, "is it broken?" It is a bit better, but I'm not sure it's better enough to make it a big selling point. The bigger and clearer screen are more notable perks, I'd say.
Don't get me wrong, I don't exactly go back to play an actual DMG Game Boy anymore, but the green tint has settled in as my preferred way to play those games on other devices, like Analogue Pocket and MiSTer.
I don't like invoking the word "nostalgia" carelessly because I think retro gaming is so much more than that, but I'll concede the green tint thing is nostalgia for me. That said, I do think there's something to a low contrast look for Game Boy games, as that's where the background art works it's magic the best. That can also be achieved with a more neutrally colored screen, like on Game Boy Pocket. But I think stark white and pure black for the lightest and darkest shades often doesn't work that great for Game Boy emulation. I like it to be dressed up in some fashion at least.
As someone who has been researching the SGB /SGB2 Super Game boy for years, the least important area was the comparison between DMG / CGB and SGB / SGB2 modes. Very few games attempted to match the GBC mode and it wasn't always possible due to the 12 palette limitations without using additional SNES hardware and VRAM.
This video was fantastic, and I learned a lot. Thank you for all the time and effort you put into it.
you dudes are the OG nerds. I love you all. id definitely go for a drink with you! or get drunk playing mario kart, either one.
awesome vid. was thinking about this very topic just recently with Wario Land 2 and coming to the same conclusion.
Yo MLiG no lie I was having some withdrawals without your videos thank you for the birthday gift perfect timing 🎉
I got a Gameboy Color pretty early on and had already packed away my SNES by then, so I only ever saw GBC graphics a lot of black cart games even back in the day. The last few times I've played some old favorites, I've forced the emulators into SGB mode to experience the difference. Dragon Quest Monsters also looks great on SGB, and Pokemon TCG card art looks great in monochrome. I never realized in the games I've played how often there are outright different graphics that I'll have to keep a closer eye out for.
Also discovered that Wario 2 makes you reset your save when switching between (S)GB and GBC on the black cart. I'd love to know the technical detail behind that since it's the only game I've seen do that. And just as I post, I get to Conker doing that, too. Although Wario 2 is identical between versions, so at least Conker has an obvious reason.
Nice one Try. Though, I disagree with you on Tetris DX; when it launched I was disappointed in the music selection, and the omission of the Tetris song (Type A music from the original). However I was blown away by the little colour flourishes like the scrolling back grounds and cycling colour gradient transitions. Even back then, the GBC was a late follow up to the GB's 'withered technology' with more 'withered technology', but there was nothing else so the colour and processor speed bump did impress somewhat. I know the screen can seem dark, but have always found it to be a sharp display with great colours. Good news is there's a ROM hack that allows you to add the original song Type A song back in! I think it was in the code, but unused and the hack just swaps it in. I just wish I could get the NES' song 3 hacked in too, it's beautiful.
No offense, but the example meal you showed for Factor looks horrifying.
Really does. I had to stop watching the video.
All those meals looked like 🤢
Oh, my sponsorblock went brrrr. I'm fine with people making money, I just don't want to be annoyed by said moneymaking. Best of both worlds.
I guess one of the perks of mobile is being able to just tap the right side of the screen when sponsor segments pop up in videos.
Small correction for Dragon Quest on Switch/PS4. The Switch/PS4 ports are not the mobile versions.
The mobile versions use purely the SNES version's sprites and has smooth scrolling when you move around. The Switch/PS4 ports decided to redo the sprites and use HD Artwork for monster battles which makes them clash in style. Plus, that jutter when moving is awful. The mobile versions do have a portrait presentation, however.. and touch controls so... that could be a downside if you don't like that.
Sides that, they are, objectively, the best versions for most of the games despite them being on mobile.
Porting the mobile/console translation to the Super Famicom ROMs would result in the best version of these games.
The CD-quality soundtrack can also be included with the MSU-1.
Especially if the GBC bonuses can be ported to the Super Famicom.
@@HydraSpectre1138 That would be cool. I think the GBC bonuses in 3..(?) are hit or miss though. Can't remember fully. But as it stands, they are great versions even still. Since you don't exactly need quick reactions for these games or anything!
Great video. Even before I started, I wondered if Try would go in-depth on Conker's Pocket Tales and the fact that it's basically a completely different game between GBC and GB. I only found that out a few months ago when I played it on SGB for the first time!
[Try4ce] Is this something people talk about much at all? I guess it's not that popular of a game, but it comes from a notable developer and is an interesting artifact that reveals the other side of development for an famous M-rated N64 game. You'd think people would be talking about this, but I had absolutely never heard it. I bought it a few years ago, but barely touched it until now. My surprise was something I experienced myself just a few weeks ago. I had absolutely never heard about this before and it is utterly fascinating. That alone makes the game actually worth looking at even though it is certainly not too great.
@mylifeingaming I never heard about it until I experienced it with my own eyes. I had it when it came out and I only ever played it on my GBC. Didn't have a SGB in 2000. It was definitely a great thing to go in-depth on. Kudos!
According to Wikipedia, there’s apparently custom audio for the GB version of Wario Land II when played on the Super Game Boy. I would really like to hear some of that if that’s the case.
This video felt made for me! Super Game Boy always delighted me- Game & Watch Gallery 2 and Warioland II were my 1st and 2nd Game Boy games, and I’ve put more hours into Tetris DX than perhaps any other game. btw, Type C music is the only way to go!
great video topic, hope you can do another part as well
I never had a Gameboy so this is the first time I've heard of these black cartridges. This should be an excellent video
I actually don't own any black gb games. Just gb and gba so I was really excited for this. I hope one day you find the definitive black gameboy color enhanced gameboy game.
At the moment it seems the biggest issue/perk is either highlighting artwork flaws or enhancing artwork flairs!
Really interesting video though!
God I love the GameBoy. Great choice of topic even if it is incredibly niche.
I've always been interested in how NGPC games look between the B&W and colour versions of the console. I THINK they can look pretty different and some B&W games like the first Samurai Shodown have colour on the colour system that wasn't advertised.
As for Tetris DX, the game definitely could have updated the palette in real-time without affecting VS mode;
*Using standard ATTR_CHR, it is possible to read out screen area mapping palette information by writing updates every 6 by 9 panel / block (12 by 18 CHR) area spanning full height of the screen, ATTR_CHR would have been possible after the 40-bit header. The GB program needs to send 18*12*2 = 432 bits of payload for a total of 472 bits. This would be sent through the ICD2 as one 128-bit packet every 4 VBLANKS, or ceil (472 / 128) = 4 packets over the course of 4*4 = 16 VBLANKS, thus needing to repeat the 4 packets every time the center of the row crosses into a new row of character attributes displayed on-screen. The most practical use of this method is to display updating columns of tiles in a puzzle game using the 12 (minus 4 for in-game screen area designation) palette limitation (should be enough) without using 256 palette display, overwriting palettes assigned to standard SGB function display (menus, etc).
Three valid transfers are barely able to output the SNES VBLANK.
;SNES VBLANK 38*1364 = 51832 master clocks (minus 40 byte header)
;24 lines GB = 24*456*5 = 54720 master clocks
If JOYPAD registers are read while the game is updating SGB / 2 packets it shouldn't cause issues with the VS link cable.
My best guess as to why Tetris DX doesn't include a SGB / 2 palette was because Nintendo didn't want to overshadow the GBC then new capabilities. I included a simple palette patch to address this issue. It really is strange that they couldn't at least include a simple palette.
[Try4ce] Interesting! Yeah I noticed when building comparisons that games with custom palettes would get out of sync with the others during screen transitions. So that was my best guess.
@@mylifeingaming If it's an implementation issue with the SGB2's (/modded SGBs with the oscillator and link port) user-controlled palettes, that's really interesting. My first assumption was that it was similar to the GBP's support for things like rumble that are implemented via the link port - obviously not physically, the GameCube can hijack the EXT bus of the GBP unless its physical tab in the port is pushed up - and therefore don't work if you're using it. That port hijacking is in fact faster than the actual EXT port, which can be really seen when you use it to dump a game.
If you're curious, GBP detection isn't handled by a hardware version flag, because ARM7 initialisation doesn't have one of those. Instead, it's done by the Game Boy Player splash screen that cartridges use! Upon detecting it, the GBP's firmware (Start-Up Disc always and GBI if enabled) holds in all four directions on the D-Pad to tell the software "Yes, I am a GameCube actually."
The few seconds on Quest 64 coming deblurred out of probably a N64Digital really got to me and I had to plug my N64 in and try out more raw-pixel deblurred games on the thing all day.
[Try4ce] That was actually a basic RGB mod with optimized sampling on the RetroTINK 4K! That's the same result as deblur, pretty much! Normally I'd have done the N64Digital modded unit, but the RGB one was easier to get recorded quickly at the time.
Funny you finished off with dkc 3. The gba version is my go-to for that game thanks to the new soundtrack from David wise rather than what they used on snes
This channel deserves way more subscribers!
I saw someone streaming that Mr. Do Quest and showing off that at a certain point, some letters in the results screen are incorrect, like they didn't even fully test the Game Boy Color mode to make sure it loads the correct tiles everywhere.
I was fascinated to learn that the A Bug's Life game came out early enough on Game Boy Color that they bothered to put an alternate "16-bit" soundtrack into the Super Game Boy mode, but the cutscenes have animations only in the Game Boy Color mode, so it's debatable which is the more "deluxe" version.
[Try4ce] Wow I've never heard of Super Game Boy games having a soundtrack generated by SNES! The only instances I can even think of where SNES sound is mixed in is for Pauline's voice in Donkey Kong and the clapping on the title screen in Kirby's Dream Land 2.
@@mylifeingaming If you finish Donkey Kong, it uses SNES sound for the ending credits music! There are games that change all the music to use SNES samples, and there are games that replace all the sound effects; Animaniacs and Poko-nyan: Yume no Daibouken are notable for doing both.
[Try4ce] Wow it's been so long since I finished DK '94 that I guess I never realized this. I played through it many times back in the day, both on Game Boy and Super Game Boy.
I'm here from the article! Great video!
Great video! As a heads up, wario land II has the same issue as Conker's Pocket Tales, where save data isn't compatible between the gb and gbc versions
Great topic! I could speak about GB for hours, and I’m sad the Super Game Boy modes doesn’t have any love from Nintendo on the NSO
I’m an unabashed SGB lover, and the lack of implementation on the Switch really disappoints me.
Or 3DS, even. Pokémon Red/Blue looks best on the Super GB, and the fact the games weren't colorized on 3DS was a _crime._
Many black-colored Game Boy Color games such as Frogger, Centipede, Super Breakout, Monopoly, Asteroids, Battleship, Chessmaster, Titus the Fox, Space Invaders, Black Bass: Lure Fishing, Prince of Persia, Pac-Man: Special Color Edition, Ms. Pac-Man: Special Color Edition, Harvest Moon GBC, Harvest Moon 2, Legend of the River King GBC, Legend of the River King 2, Tetris DX, R-Type DX, Looney Tunes, Looney Tunes: Carrot Crazy, Looney Tunes: Marvin Strikes Back!, Looney Tunes: “Twouble!”, Bugs Bunny Crazy Castle 3, Tazmanian Devil: Munching Madness, Daffy Duck: Fowl Play, Speedy Gonzales: Aztec Adventure, The Rugrats Movie, Wario Land II, The Legend of Zelda: Link’s Awakening DX, Pokémon Gold, Pokémon Silver, Pokémon Pinball, Pokémon Trading Card Game, Turok 2: Seeds of Evil, Gex: Enter the Gecko, NFL Blitz, Earthworm Jim: Menace 2 the Galaxy, Pocket Bowling, Yars’ Revenge, Star Wars: Yoda Stories, Mega Man Xtreme, Quest RPG: Brian’s Journey, Godzilla: The Series, Barbie: Fashion Pack Games, Barbie: Ocean Discovery, Metal Walker, Antz, Bust-A-Move 4, Babe and Friends, Oddworld: Adventures 2, Rampage: World Tour, Bass Masters Classic, Catterpillar Construction Zone, Rats!, Shamus, Wings of Fury, Uno, Hot Wheels: Stunt Track Driver, Las Vegas Cool Hand, Pitfall: Beyond the Jungle, Ballistic, NBA Jam 99, Rugrats: Time Travelers, Rox, Ronaldo V-Soccer, Klustar, Midway Presents Arcade Hits: Joust/Defender, Midway Presents Arcade Hits: Moon Patrol/Spy Hunter, The Adventures of Mary-Kate and Ashley, Mary-Kate and Ashley: Get a Clue!, Mary-Kate and Ashley: Pocket Planner, WWF WrestleMania 2000, Ghosts ‘n Goblins, Hello Kitty’s Cube Frenzy, Evel Knievel, Jeff Gordon XS Racing, Montezuma‘s Return!, 720 Degress, Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2000, Sesame Street: Elmo’s 123’s, Sesame Street: Elmo’s ABC’s, Puzzle Master, Quest for Camelot, Men in Black: The Series, Shanghai Pocket, Bomberman Quest, Pocket Bomberman, Game & Watch Gallery 2, Game & Watch Gallery 3, Mortal Kombat 4, Disney‘s Beauty and the Beast: A Board Game Adventure, Classic Bubble Bobble, Blaster Master: Enemy Below, Revelations: The Demon Slayer, Quest: Fantasy Challenge, TNN Outdoors Fishing Champ, NBA 3 on 3 feat. Kobe Bryant, Disney/Pixar A Bug’s Life, Disney/Pixar Toy Story 2, Conker’s Pocket Tails, Monster Rancer Battle Card GB, International Track & Field, Survival Kids, Azure Dreams, Chase H.Q.: Secret Police, Madden NFL 2000, FIFA Soccer 2000, NHL Hockey 2000, Shadowgate Classic, Dragon Dance, Roadsters Trophy 2, Robopon: Sun Version, NBA in the Zone, International Rally, Power Quest, Test Drive 6, Hexcite: The Shapes of Victory, Lil’ Monster, Hole in One Golf, Test Drive Off-Road 3, Dragon Warrior I & II, Dragon Warrior Monsters, Dragon Warrior Monsters: Cobi’s Journey and Dragon Warrior Monsters: Tara’s Adventure are compatible in monochrome mode with the Nintendo Game Boy and Super Game Boy.
Hey, one day, I can go switching back and forth between playing any Game Boy and black-colored Game Boy Color game paks on either Nintendo Game Boy, Super Game Boy, Game Boy Pocket, Game Boy Color, Game Boy Advance, or Game Boy Advance SP.
Not right now babe, new MLiG just dropped
I never knew there were differences in designs between each Game Boy mode between Game Boy/Super Game Boy and Game Boy Color. That explains why I see color patches for Game Boy games that have a Game Boy Color release.
It really is all about the RAM w these older consoles!
These older CPU's were clearly more capable than we thought, but due to high RAM costs they were held back by very low amounts of on board RAM.
Thus the systems that do things like merely upgrade the RAM, aka what the GBC did for the GB, you can see the differences in some games even tho its the exact same CPU!
Same thing w the CD add-on for the PC Engine. That extra RAM it added REALLY unlocked the potential of the system, & you can see it in the sheer graphic fidelity in many of the Super CD games!
It’s morning time but I’m about to fall right back asleep while watching this lol
As a huge Pokemon nerd since the series released, even I was surprised when I played Pokemon Red/Blue on my Game Boy Color for the first time. I think Pokemon Red/Blue were designed with the Super Game Boy in mind, and took full advantage of it, but had no idea what the GBC was going to be like. That's my best guess, at least, since Pokemon Yellow uses the same kinds of colour pallets on the GBC as the SGB. And since Pokemon Yellow was the only one I had as a kid with my GBC, and I'd only experienced R/B on the SGB, I'd assumed Yellow's GBC compatibility was the norm!
From memory, the biggest difference that I can recall is that the towns don't all have their own unique colours when playing R/B on the GBC, but Yellow does, as do R/B on the SGB. So the SGB is undoubtedly the best way to play R/B.
You can change palette on GBC on boot by holding certain button combinations. Eg. Left +B for gray scale.
[Try4ce] Doesn't affect black cart games though. I don't like those settings on GBC anyway though. A couple of them are alright but I think Super Game Boy looks way better for non-GBC games.
Great video thanks that’s all I play now gamboy,color advance and ps2
Fantastic discussion, never even considered the benefits of the original presentation for gb games.
I would GREATLY appreciate a video specifically on GB/SGB/GBC Pokémon games. I've found that the Super Game Boy is the best for a few, and a solid in-between for others. Also, for some weirdness, try playing the GBC/SGB intros for Gold or Silver side-by-side. They're the exact same length in terms of number of frames, but the scene durations and music are a bit different
[Try4ce] I noticed this a lot as I was lining up clips for comparisons - Super Game Boy screen transitions often take longer than the handheld systems. This is the main reason I speculated that maybe the palettes could be an issue with maintaining multiplayer sync in Tetris DX. Obviously that could be a consideration for Pokemon too (Pokemon is obviously the main reason the Super Game Boy 2 even exists), but since it's turn-based, maybe it can be looser with these things than Tetris? Total wild guess on my part though, based on little knowledge of how the link connection even functions.
Interesting to see the differences of Black carts on GameBoy, Super GameBoy and GameBoy Color as I've never looked too much into them before.
The Tetris DX A-Type Music is a bummer though and I orefer Tetris DX than the original because of the color and high scores saving. Interestingly the A-Type Music of the original Tetris on GameBoy is acessible through either a cheat code or by patching the rom to always have it available as A-Type Music among the other unused music in Tetris DX.
It's situation like these that I wish there was more Gameboy Color (exclusive) content (articles & videos). Gameboy Color nearly always gets lumped in with Gameboy.
[Try4ce] It probably depends on someone's age - if GBC was the main handheld when they were the same age I was when I got my original Game Boy, then it probably made a bigger impact. I was 14 when the GBC came out. I've personally always felt that the GBC exclusive library is pretty weak, so that's part of why I tend to lump it all together in my head. For me, the golden era of Game Boy runs up through the release of Pokemon Red and Blue in the west, and after that point, I was kind of tired of Game Boy up until the GBA. Of course, looking back, I love it all, and the GBC does have at least a few great exclusives, but that's how I felt at the time anyway.
I’ve never seen a cgr mug that wasn’t filled with marks brew of choice. 😂 input beer output fun.
Never noticed actual differences between systems. I just assumed the GBC was programmed with Super GB's color data
Mr. Do is still a threat
Is that a typo, or do you find him scary :)
0:11 hey, don’t give those feet away for free 😂
I wish the virtual console versions of alot of the black cart games would of had an option to turn it from GB or GBC like they do it on NSO, that would of been a cool feature, or to allow super gamebly features on the Virtual Console also
As a general rule I always prefer to play on the SGB for the clearier picture on a bigger screen and a more comfortable controller, the borders and other extra features like 2 player modes were a nice touch too.
It always felt a shame that there was no GBC equivilent of the SGB and even when we got the GBA player on the Gamecube it felt a shame that it lacked bordered or any other extras.
Love this channel ❤
What a fantastic in depth video!
I'm surprised you didn't take Donkey Kong Country GBC as a point of comparison for the GBC-only japanese version of Dixie Kong, since the game is a good translation of the SNES game, and it's COMPLETE WITH EVERYTHING on the platform, and it's what should've been done with the GBC version of Dixie Kong.
On another note, Pokémon GSC has a few differences when played on GBC than on GB(Pocket) besides (obviously) lack of color. One example I can remember of, some battle animations (like Recover) are faster on GBC, and with a very noticeable difference. On GB(P), the lighting effect transition occurs twice as slow, and the energy pellets whirling around the "Recover" user takes way longer to complete the animation cycle.
One thing worth noting about the konami GB collections is that castlevania adventure moves a long at a much better pace over the sluggish original you can even see it here during the side by side
[Try4ce] Yeah and unfortunately I realized this too, after having said in the previous episode that it ran no better. The slowdown IS still nearly constant though, so it doesn't really fix anything, but just makes the problem slightly less severe.
people overlook the gameboy was literally an overpowered calculator, works the same as those gas station handheld displays, it turned a black square ON and OFF just filled the screen of black squares, letter applied less power to get lighter dark tones
Hi from peru!!! Im a big fan!!! 😊